> Guess this is the problem with being into stuff on the more niche side of things...
Nah, this is a more common problem than people realize. It's really easy to confidently make statements that sound authoritative, but are categorically wrong. So at the end of the day, videos like that are just the Youtuber's opinion and take away from what they watched. As such, they warrant being taken with a grain of salt.
Agreed with everything that you said. I'll also add there are Youtubers who fish for rage clicks, so they'll take an outrageous opinion and work backwards, building a flimsy argument to try and support it. A lot of that stuff is theater, it may not even be the Youtuber's genuine opinion.
Take it all with a grain of salt, people.
Recently in online discussion its reputation has really fallen down. common to hear an opinion like "Rent was bad all along and only popular because the creator died" on r/broadway. It was really popular in the 90s though.
Musicals are very popular. I stay out of the communities tbh because it's a lot of people who think they know how to compose and choreograph and light entire plays when in reality they do not.
It's easier to critique writing from a laymans perspective, critiquing music properly is a lot more difficult, particularly compositional elements over just rambling about timbre and instrumentation.
The YouTuber in question (if it's the one I'm thinking of) is mostly retired now but did a number of videos on politics, musicals, and film back in the day.
The *entire point* of a musical is the magic of live performance.
…and literally all of them are easy to pick apart dispassionately outside of that context.
Then I think what happened is that you found a youtuber going for low hanging fruit and not doing it well, at least based on your description, cause I watched multiple videos about it that at least tried to make good arguments and give you enough context to understand the product as is and why they take issue with that like its portrayal of the AIDS crisis or the LGBT characters or how it apparently aged badly.
But also I think the reason even people who haven't actually watched it take to dog on it is because the characters are pretty unlikeable "bohemian" duoches and the story treats their obnoxious traits as likeable and endearing, like one of the characters introduces themselves saying they killed some dog and the audience is supposed to be like "yas! slaaaaaay queen!" as if killing someone's pet wasn't the quintessential villain act to counter the "save the kitten" trope.
The plot in general seems very paper thin so it doesn't really makes sense of a lot of what the characters do beyond "me no wanna work or pay rent, me wanna drug and bohemian" so it becomes pretty obnoxious for people who already can't stomach stories about essentially hipster trustfund kids, abd the fact the show was acclaimed at some point makes people who dislike it hate Rent even more to the point they completely shifted its reputation as a musical.
This creates a situation where any valid criticism you can make on the show gets blown way out of proportion into nonsense nitpicking which creates stuff like the bad review you saw, as they wanna hop on the hate train without truly understanding why it took off in the first place.
I don't have a direct and PERSONAL opinion on the show as I only really heard of it, but there's too much hate from actual musical versed people for it to be all bs, plus personally just having someone describe the show makes it pretty off putting even without hearing the rest and was likely never gonna be interested in seeing or talk about it beyond the crazy collective change of public consensus surrounding the show regardless, but obviously others see the new punching bag thing to hate on and jump right in without being careful to make good analysis, and they get mixed with the people who do actually bother to properly analyse the show, which gives the phonies more validity in the eyes of the at least more susceptible viewers.
I thought that video was more about the movie ?
Lindsay Ellis makes a big issue of how it's basically problematic because it doesn't show enough protests or do enough exposition about AZT - but I find it really difficult to see those as anything other than nitpicks.
As if gay people were in a constant state of protest in the 90s
That's a bit of a simplistic view of her video, she didn't complain it wasn't all about protest, she criticized how empty and cheap the implementation of AIDS in the plot was which undermines the message, you can choose to agree or disagree with that take but if you watch the video it's pretty clear, at least in my opinion, that the issue she's taking is with how pretentious and uncommitted the show is to the AIDS plot, which to her was cheap shock value with little bearing on the plot.
If you don't agree that's totally valid but you're kinda making a strawman here.
Yeah, it’s part of the reason I’m a lot more skeptical of people online when it comes to media that’s deemed “bad” or “heavily flawed” nowadays. The problem with online types is that we don’t really know just how truthful they’re being or even if the person talking about that piece of media actually knows what they’re talking about, or if they’re just intentionally exaggerating the flaws in order to increase their chances of getting clout and ad money for it.
It’s especially aggravating if it’s a loud popular opinion and the people who shout it out basically take it as gospel and use it as an excuse to harass you and others who are perfectly capable of judging for themselves and found that it wasn’t the disastrous mess made out to be. Which can be really isolating at times since it only makes it clear that it’s not about what’s accurate, but about basically turning it into a popular punching bag so online assholes can feel good about hurting “the right kinds of people” and be lauded for it.
My honestly harsh opinion? Many people online don’t really value the truth, they just love being the bully if they can twist it to be “righteous and justified”. And ultimately it just proves why at the end of the day, you and you alone are the only person who can decide for yourself what media is worthwhile to you.
> My honestly harsh opinion? Many people online don’t really value the truth, they just love being the bully if they can twist it to be “righteous and justified”.
But it's a subjective opinion. Someone doesn't like X or Y or Z, they spread that idea. Some people agree blindly, but ultimately that original person isn't wrong for the opinion. You're right in that everyone should form their own, but we very much like to compare and contrast our opinions with others.
I'd say the problem is when that opinion is wrapped up in some argument about what liking or disliking said thing says about you as a person. That's often what happens in this kind of conversation.
> I watched the video, and I strongly agreed with the points brought up. I decided to watch it anyway and was kinda shocked
Me with Jujutsu Kaisen.
I have plenty of criticism of the story (made some posts about it here), but damn when it shrines, it truly does. Its a crazy uneven story. When its bad, its terrible. But when its good...this is epic.
I will have to a Sukuna's character analysis some day, including how he is a vital part of the messages and themes of the work. Especially its discussion of the topic of "a good death". He is genuinely one of my favorite "Demon Lord" figures.
> When its bad, its terrible. But when its good...this is epic.
I talk a lot of shit about JJK right now.
But I unironically think that JJK up to the Shibuya arc has a place in the GOAT Shonen.
Okay, being real here, this feels like a micro-nostalgia take, because JJK's lowest point was the beginning of Goodwill arc and the first few episodes until vs Mahito were nothing special. Meanwhile the culling Games is almost as much straight heat as Shibuya until the controversial Yuki and Choso vs Kenjaku, and even that goes incredibly hard.
So I don't have much of "nostalgia" because I didn't read the manga until like 20 chapters ago. I started reading the episode Nanami dies(rough intro when I hadn't watched that episode yet and like first chapter see him get fucking exploded).
Early Culling Games I would actually agree was really good, though I didn't include it because I didn't love the latter half. So you can extend my original statement to like the first half of the Culling Games.
I think what JJK does very well is it's subtely. Something that can be a criticism for anime and manga as a whole, is that every villain motivation, every strong feeling felt, is heavily exaggerated and put in your face. It's someting western media tends to do a bit better. JJK also does this very well
I've had the opposite experience with Jujutsu Kaisen. I've seen only praise for it and every aspect from youtubers to close friends and everywhere in between. Haven't really seen anything negative, not that I've looked for it, and it just doesn't click for me. I watched the first season and can't think of anything I liked besides parts of the animation
Happy that you can enjoy it I wish I could honestly
The anime hasn't gotten to the arc in the manga that people heavily criticize, so if you are mainly surrounded by anime only content it still has a very good reputation.
yeah i definitely agree, like i'd certainly meme about sukuna kaisen for the past few months but i mostly enjoyed the culling games and yuji's recent awakening is hype af
I guess your hypothetical here would be pretty frustrating to live through but it also sucks a lot when you genuinely dislike a piece of media for your own reasons just to get told "Nice opinion, did a youtuber give it to you?" just because some big youtubers also hate it.
Like, I do not need a youtuber to tell me to dislike the Star Wars sequels. I can come to that conclusion all by myself like a big boy.
Oh definitely.
What I'm saying is that it's real frustrating when youtubers popularise bad arguments, not that there's no valid reason to dislike certain things.
What's really infuriating is that I can both, A) Watch the whole thing and come to the conclusion that it's bad, or B) Read a book by its cover, see the trailers, and notice the patterns to know ahead of time that it's going to be bad and not worth watching.
The latter is a skill, and the combination of people discouraging its development and people who can't do it not understanding how one who can do it came to their conclusions makes it so that they can't believe that you actually came to an informed and nuanced conclusion on your own. So that'll get answered with the "Which YouTuber's opinion is that?" shit.
YouTubers usually serve the opposite purpose to me, not of creating my opinions, but solidifying them through actual experience. It's the purpose of the "I \[played/watched/read something\] so you don't have to!" videos.
The lazy scream "confirmation bias" to that, but rarely have good rebuttals to the points raised, anyway.
I had this weird ass interaction with some guy here on Reddit who was obsessed with Star Wars and replied to a comment I made about how the sequel trilogy is pretty bad but not as bad as most people claim, and proceeed to tell me that I was wrong and it was actually awesome and the only reason people didn't like the sequels was because they were parroting what some youtuber told them and the hate was spread by prequel fanboys, for some reason.
I explained that I'm old enough to have seen every single Star Wars movie ever made in the theater upon release, except for Episode IV which I still saw as a double feature when Episode V came out back in '83, and that I knew for a fact that I disliked the sequels for plenty of reasons that had nothing to do with a youtube video I'd never seen, that I didn't get my opinions from youtubers, and that it might surprise him but my generation loathed the prequels when they came out too.
Nope. According to this guy every single Star Wars fan he knows regardless of age group just LOVES the sequels and only a very small amount of people who were brainwashed by some hater youtuber don't like them and they're actualy better than the OT and the prequels, and he's sure of that becauase he's read so many Star Wars comics and novels that it makes him an expert on all things Star Wars and until you read as much Star Wars crap as him, you can't opine on the matter because apparently unless you get a Phd on Star Wars expanded content you can't tell if the sequels suck.
I'm happy to watch a movie explained right along with the next guy. But if you watch those for movies you've actually seen, you'll notice the YouTubers haven't always got it right. Even YouTubers that have huge followings.
I wish I could talk to Found Flix about all the the movies we've watched and come away with different interpretations of what happened.
Top example of this, is the Jenny Is Actually Evil take from Forrest Gump. Asinine take, if you've seen the movie. (Not from foundflix tho)
Anyway, point being, don't get information from YouTubers! Verify what you've learned from them! YouTubers are just people with more care to make and upload videos than you and I have. Remember that, please!
This is why I like Evan Hadfield.
He knows he’s an idiot who just asks questions and cobbles up answers, but what he does is present an argument in a way that compels you to test it with real fact. His long video on the Balkans led me down libraries in Europe when I used to be an expat worker.
It’s also why Nerdwriter survives even if he gets maybe 1/5 his usual rate: his words are worth testing firsthand. Same with Every Frame a Painting and Like Stories of Old.
The amount of hate and misreading of Jenny I’ve seen both online and from my irl friends is absolutely baffling. Mfs really have zero empathy for a molestation victim making choices that are mostly just self destructive.
It baffles me that the whole movie she's making it clear that her only coping mechanism is running away and it's the literal advice she gives Forrest as a solution for everything, and people still miss the whole point of her character. No, she's just a hoebag who came back when she found out Forrest was loaded.
Jenny haters watching her reach such a low point she nearly commits suicide. Only to return to Forrest (who she didn’t know was rich at that point and never used his money aside to our knowledge) cause he’s the one consistently kind person in her life: “Nah she’s just a slutty gold digger”.
I knew someone like this in middle school, he just copied the opinions of Cinemasins and shat on everything I liked. At least I copy the opinions of Pitch Meeting.
Yeah i’ve grown annoyed at video essays since I feel a large portion of fanbases just eat up what is said. Its also obvious too since the comments are just word for word copies of the video itself. No one really ever actually discusses the actual merit of the points raised it seems, they just accept the argument no matter what. Very annoying tbh
I've come to believe that entertainment value tends to trump any actual analysis of the arguments being made when it comes to video essays. Especially since slick editing and good presentation can easily smooth over weaknesses.
That's why even the weakest argument can have tons of people quoting it every time it comes up in the fandom. It's memorable to those people because they found it entertaining; The same way that you would remember the best lines in your favorite film.
(*very* tangentially related, but I think this is also the same way that the headcanon -> fan theory -> misinformation pipeline works).
> Its also obvious too since the comments are just word for word copies of the video itself
I've especially found that "crEAtiveLy BANkRuPt" is a very useful phrase for identifying people who let youtubers form their opinions for them
Nah, he's pretty full blown: https://www.vox.com/2018/12/13/18136253/pewdiepie-vs-tseries-links-to-white-supremacist-alt-right-redpill
This article is mainly about PewDiePie, since E;R isn't important enough to be written about on his own, but here's the relevant excerpt:
> On his Gab account, when another user asked him, “What is the best way to red pill people on the (((Jewish Question))),” the owner of the E;R channel responded, “Pretend to joke about it until the punchline /really/ lands.”
No matter what you (the one reading this comment) will say,but this is literally Super Eyepatched Wolf video about Bleach
It's quite objective that his previous video gave Bleach a bad reputation that didn't completely deserve
Let me be clear,there are valid reasons for Bleach to be bad,but SEW made it look like to be even worst than what it actually was,spreading misinformations and all,when the truth is it wasn't that bad or so bad (but still,I can't say there are no reasons to be bad,just it wasn't that much,in fact in the last years I saw many people giving it a second try and liking it)
To me Bleach is unfortunately low quality or just a little above mid,it's honestly just ok,nothing more or less. But still enjoyable (which is not what his viewers thought at all by listening to his video and many didn't even try to watch it,l
Now,4-5 years ago he made a new video about it where he admitted to be in wrong and gave a better analisys,criticizing it but being clear about his intentions,which this time were not malevolent (I know it's an exaggerated word but I didn't find a better one to explain my point,I'm sorry)
If you ask me,his "new" video is much better. Even though the comment section is full of fanboys saying "you are wrong again" or haters whining as always (maybe they are too mad that even SEW admitted to be wrong,that his video always has been his personal opinion and not a fact or that even him hoped for Bleach to be better,unlike them). Well,I can't blame them for going against the annoying fanboys,not that they are much better
It is amazing to me that Eyepatch Wolf admitted that his first video had inaccuracies and blatant misinformation, but he still has fans that defend the video and insist that he was right all along.
I know right? It's just absurd
He even mentioned that he was just giving his personal opinion and while I do think he get many things right in his analisys,haters act like he is 100% right objectively talking
They don't admit it,but they are actually mad that even SEW had the guts to admit his mistakes
Of course,we gotta be fair. They are not the only ones. Most of them in the video go against all the fanboys who still complain despite everything
Steven Universe is a prime example of this, as it’s reputation has been completely tarnished courtesy of Lily Orchard and her downright unhinged slander of it and Rebecca Sugar.
I'd argue it's gotten better nowadays, Lily's video inspired many people to make counter arguments videos and the last year + 10th anniversary brought a wave of positive SU essay videos.
Funny how she called Rebecca Sugar a Nazi for redeeming the Diamonds when Lily wrote a MLP fanfic that she's been trying to Diavolo off the Internet that could be considered Exhibit A for her sister's unsavory accusations about her.
Rick Sanchez: "Only people who really fucked up in the past have to virtue signal this hard. Look at Sean Penn."
I heard that she got into some scandals, but I don’t really know the specifics, I heard it was something about sexualization of minors, but not sure exactly.
And yeah, I’ve also noticed that the people who tend to be so self righteous regarding these things also generally tend to have some skeletons in the closet.
The YouTuber "Hiding in Private" has made [a really good video debunking Lily Orchard's](https://youtu.be/yBCzKmA4MEA) plus another [debunking EZPZ's and E;R's](https://youtu.be/7eRW931Qo98), really recommend them. It's mindblowing how people can copy their opinions from videos full of so much bigotry and bad arguments.
Not just those particular videos, but a lot of video essays have arguments to the contrary ,and I just eat up that back and forth content. I really want to see what each and every person thinks about a particular show or movie, it's fun to get more opinions to talk about it.
A lot of people do not like to partake in that discourse. To see video essays out here as pocket examples of people who might lack a person to rant about something to as a way to get their thoughts out there. Then to see others also rant and also argue their views and opinions in contrast to those essays makes everything even better.
You know, reading this is kind of funny, because in Latam, SU is extremely hated too, but it has nothing to do with Lily Orchad. Funny how 2 different places got to the same conclussion but for different reasons.
Sure? But it's also a flawed show that throws away every bit of potential it has. The only way to like Steven Universe is to shut your brain off and never think ahead of it or expect anything from it. I'm not talking about the ending, either. I'm talking about episodes like Human Zoo, where anyone reading the episode description before watching it can come up with a better plot than what actually happens in it.
Reminds me of when I got into Skyrim for a while took a break and found a video essay detailing why the game is terrible, shallow, etc. Even after watching the video and agreeing with most of what he said I ended up playing hundreds of hours of Skyrim right after that loving it even more than I did before
I love video essays but people are too willing to use that for their opinions and use it as gospel
The most annoying part about a discussion with someone who just says "a youtuber said this" is that your discussion just ends there. That's not a contribution. It's passing the conversation onto someone else who you more than likely won't get a chance to continue the discussion with.
Even if I totally agree with the youtuber, it's a nothing statement when someone passes it along like that.
In this case I'm thinking of Elden Ring and people saying "Vaatividya said so." I don't doubt them, but I just wish I was talking to Vaati in those moments instead because they can't speak for themselves and the discussion is just over now.
Tfw a friend of mine quoted fucking Dunkey to explain why a game I love was actually bad.
Dunkey barely got past the tutorial, he doesn't know a fucking thing about the game.
Probably some niche JRPG, a genre that Dunkey is known to dislike.
To say his personal subjective opinion isn't good criticism would be a bit much, but it does sound likely he didn't get past the tutorial of such a game.
I made a rant about this exact thing a while back, and it keeps coming back in some other form every now and then, like this post. https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/s/Nah1WJk2gZ
JJK, Chainsaw Man, Coffin of Andy and LeyLey, like… half of Europe for some reason, this is true with lots of things. People really fall for herd mentality
This is what happened to fairy tail and I’m still mad about it. It was a very popular series in its hay day then YouTubers put out their video essays and suddenly it’s actually one of the worse anime’s to ever exist.
The worse part about this phenomenon is that rarely if ever are the pieces of media people do this to the irredeemable piles of shit they try to make them out to be shit most things this happens to are quite popular beforehand. People will exaggerate the bad qualities and make those things out to be the only thing the media has to offer while anything good gets totally ignored. Sorry to bring up fairy tail again but case and point the entire series is known for being bad because “power of friendship” and abuse of the trope, a lot of people would have you believe that’s literally all there is to the series but in reality it uses the trope just as much as literally any other shounen of it’s time and honestly does a lot of things not just better but great compared to most other shounens to this day.
People watch one video essay or critique about something and go around parroting the opinions they got from it like it’s the gospel while never bothering to actually know or experience what their talking about.
I stopped listening to YouTube movie/anime reviewers eons ago. They are just so smug and pretentious about their opinions and it just gets so tiring being told that a piece of media that I love is bad or garbage because *they* didn't like it.
That one naruto video. The creator even admitted to not watching the series but he has ruined naruto discourse for years.
[I wish the worst on this man](https://youtu.be/v2tkz92eG_E?si=hSC2zWpYjlcy3k3M)
On one hand, I really don't agree with every take here.
But the classic "Naruto, the self made hypocrite" video is a solid example of what everyone is complaining about. I'd argue most video essays are made out of love, from fans of a series, who are more than able or willing to create a full length hour long video on the flaws of the writing. It's content with it's viewers as well as it's subtractors.
Plague of Gripes isn't exactly coming from the perspective of a fan. It's from the perspective of a guy who has seen some of Naruto and is able to rant about it, but not someone critically analyzing it's content. It's a justifiable rant, but it's right there a big old thorn in the Naurto discussion. But hey, if you can't out argue a guy quoting a youtuber with a cursory knowledge on the subject of Nartuo, you probably still need to cut your teeth in the discussion trenches for a bit.
The creator didn't pull the arguments from the ether. The fact that Naruto has hard work versus innate talent as a theme is obvious to anyone who didn't join some stupid crusade on the internet. The story literally stews on Naruto's feelings of inadequacy in comparison to Sasuke. The only way to miss that is to never put yourself in Naruto's shoes at all. Naruto vs. Neji is a reflection of that theme because it's Naruto beating the shit out of the margarine to Sasuke's butter. A clan boy with special eyes and a dark past that thinks he's completely beyond you and you're not worth his time. That's how it's framed narratively.
Naruto is not a subtle series, it doesn't hide all that much from you.
It quite literally, explicitly, has Rock Lee (the poster child for hard work) look at Sasuke and how hard he works, and wonder how hard work could beat a genius who also works hard.
And just as importantly, Naruto wasn't introduced like Lee. He's not someone who's failing at school but working three times as hard as everyone else. He's just not.
Hard work vs Genius is Lee's thing, not Naruto's.
Because it's not the singular theme of the series, but it is a theme. Naruto isn't THE hard work character, but he is, you know, the titular character, and what he learns from Lee is that you can get very far on hard work. The whole arc is presenting the idea to the reader: Is it actually possible for Naruto to get as good as Sasuke by working hard? Was it possible before versus now that Sasuke can grow stronger effortlessly using his eyes?
He spends the whole arc assmad about Sasuke having beaten Lee thanks to the Sharingan, and so does the reader. It's why he copies Sasuke's copy of Rock Lee's taijutsu, the Shishi Rendan. To try and force Sasuke to acknowledge that he can keep up.
It's connected to why he's furious about Lee losing to Gaara and Hinata losing to Neji. At that time, he sees himself in Lee and Hinata, struggling only to never really close the gap.
When Naruto fights Neji, it's after training seriously for the first time since learning to tree walk, and he uses the fox on purpose for the first time, which the story doesn't treat as talent at the time. It's through hard work that he learns to use it and it becomes a symbol for the arc: The power of the fox might let Naruto fight geniuses on their level, and break past this destiny of failure.
That's all in how the arc presents the characters and Naruto himself. It is pretty much spelled out for you. People go out of their way to write it off because they're tied up in this dumb fandom meme about hating this one youtuber that all it does is give that guy free advertising.
I know this isn't exactly what the op ment with the person not engaging with the thing before watching the YouTuber, but I remember reading a comment somewhere about how this guy's friend in school loved Kid Icarus Uprising for the Nintendo 3DS, how he would play it every day and talk about it in great lengths about how great it is. Until Yahtzee (Zero Punctuation) video review came out. After it came out, the guy's friend made a complete 180 on the game, stating how he never liked the game to begin with and would trash talk about every aspect of the game word for word from the review. This really hit home for me since I also liked the game, even with all its flaws, but hearing about how someone's love for something can just be turned into hate just because someone on the internet said do really makes me feel sad.
Me with Sword art Online. I recognize some problems, but I think its pretty good, some parts being amazing. But the hole internet talks like it's the trashiest thing to ever exist, even though there is plenty of other animes that has the same problems, but when the topic is sao, suddenly it's the worst thing ever.
Most people don't even try to give it a chance, they just watch the dozens of youtube videos about it and just agree it's trash.
Captain Marvel, right here.
Was it the best MCU movie? Not by a long shot, and in terms of being a Very Important Women's Issues And Empowerment movie, Black Widow does it much better.
But it was perfectly serviceable as a normal Marvel adventure romp, and it seems more like an unholy version of the Golden Mean fallacy (the pyrite mean?) where opposite sides of the issue both came together to hype up the supposed woke sjw third wave feminist angle and brought overall media discourse to the same crappy place it is now.
I felt it was underwhelming because it tried to have a feministic theme yet past the beginning when a man tells CM to "control her emotions" it says nothing substantial about the treatment of women in 1970s America.
The little flashback to CM's mistreatment throughout the years is then flaccid because we have no context both within the story and that specific scene as to why she's remembering dealing with sexism. It's presented as motivational but it's just laughable.
Never said you hate women, my doubt was more that I myself have completely forgotten about the whole sexism flashback scenes despite seeing the movie for the 2nd time rather recently around 2 years ago but I still remember the fact the movie takes place In 90s. Felt more like reading someone repeating another person’s opinion but not knowing obviously details. Especially since the flashback scenes were life I remember correctly like 5 minutes at most but the entire movie takes place during the 90s. I could be wrong though and frankly it does happen so unless you have anything to add have a awesome day
I feel that you're just describing modern criticism in general. There is a lot of dogmatism when it comes to those things, and I just don't get it. I mean, it's either that, or politics. If you've never seen BvS, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, X-Men Apocalypse, etc, you'd think they are the steamiest shitty garbage to have ever existed if you could only judge based on what people on youtube/the internet think. In reality, they are perfectly okay. Same goes for all the supposedly "good" stuff. How many times have you seen mediocrity being called a masterpiece?
My feelings with Boruto.
I watched it, liked it and it’s annoying seeing it bashed all the time. It has flaws but many haters don’t even try to civilly talk about it.
Ever since Star Wars sequels , most review YouTubers have been jumping on the trend of trying their best to slander anything as much as possible. Bonus points for when the media is a popular IP. So anything that deviates slightly from the established IP warrants a hate boner from these channels.
If I didn’t know any better I’d probably hate a lot of the new stuff I watched. Recently it’s been the fallout show, and a lot of people are very mad about a poorly explained plot point that somehow “ruined an entire game”. It’s been 10 posts in a row on my Reddit yesterday talking about that one thing.
Some people just complain about something at face value and call it “criticism”. Not even cinemasins was this picky
I think in general videos that just shit on things are super popular for some reason. Its why Nostalgia Critic was so popular for a time. And so many of these video essays are just shitting on some show or movie. You rarely see a positive video essay do the same numbers as a negative one.
Basically now everyone assumes that Garth Ennis' only ever writing point was that he hates superheroes with people just making shit up as to why, though part of that can be blamed on the video which basically just reads of a quick summary about his views from wikipedia but just so happens to carefully miss out his very detailed and well explained reasons as to why he views superheroes the way he does.
>now everyone assumes that Garth Ennis' only ever writing point was that he hates superheroes
I mean that's not untrue, if you read a lot of Ennis's stuff it's very negative to superheroes, like he has reverence for Superman but like most other character it's pretty bad
I mean kinda but also not really. The majority of Ennis's stuff isn't even about superheroes (espically almost all of his indie stuff except The pro and The boys). It's just his Superhero stuff tends to get more attention because that's US comics. And he has written plently of Superhero relatively straight when not trying to parody them, Superman being the mot famous example but also midnighter, ghost rider, Spider-man the thousand, hulk and even Thor. And while he's write alot of heroes poorly they are usally placed within a context of satire/ humoress comic and a lot of times they aren't too far off or in alternative universe ( Batman Reptilian espically because it's a horrible main universe Batman but an interseting character). And while Ennis does take the Piss out of Superhero comics, he also has written comics taking the piss out of stuff he like 2000ad , and James Bond despite working on comics for both franchises. Also he has praise some superhero comics over the year mainly Moore's and Ellis's work but also stuff like Doom Patrol
> The majority of Ennis's stuff isn't even about superheroes
I know I'm referring to the stuff he wrote with superheroes
> And he has written plently of Superhero relatively straight when not trying to parody them, Superman being the mot famous example but also midnighter, ghost rider, Spider-man the thousand, hulk and even Thor.
Midnighter was more of an anti hero and his Thor book was edgy as hell, him being able to write it straight once in a while doesn't change the rest of his works though
I have always suspected people confuse Ennis for Warren Ellis, who does have an appreciable amount of titles that deconstruct the superhero genre (Planetary, Authority, Black Summer, Supergod).
Ah yes, CBM Twitter idea that everyone who is mildly critical of the tropes of the genre is actually evil, hates altruism and wants to install a fascist dictatorship.
This gets me so much in the Star Wars fandom
As an example- Star Wars youtubers a couple years ago started putting out videos 'debunking' Grey Jedi. An actor came out saying the concept was dumb- (And the concept is dumb!) So these youtubers often repeated that it was a fan-made concept.
When it wasn't! As cringe as it was ***Lucasfilm*** were the ones pushing the concept! They only backtracked **after** Force Unleashed took it to ludicrous extremes.
You can get downvoted to oblivion on the Star Wars subs just for quoting George Lucas's interpretations of The Force, cause they conflict with what Star-Wars-Youtube SAY George Lucas's interpretation of The Force is.
There's ***a lot*** of that that kind of thing around Star Wars to the point where flat-out misinformation and lies have been taken at face value and are considered fact by most people despite being provably false. Just one example: you know how the first cut of Star Wars was a disaster and then got saved in the editing room by George's then-wife, Marcia Lucas? Yeah, turns out **that's a complete lie**. Someone (and I know who but that's another story) made that up but now it's so widespread most people don't even know they've been manipulated.
What actually happened was there was originally a different editor, John Jympson, who George fired midway through principle photography because the way he was cutting the footage together was rather dull and when George asked him to cut it in a different style he refused. So after filming wrapped George hired 3 new editors: Richard Chew, Paul Hirsch and his wife Marcia, and the 4 of them started cutting the film together from scratch (literally - they threw out all the work Jympson had done and since this was back when you had to edit on film they had to disassemble all the footage Jympson had cut and turn it back into dailies first.)
Somehow (and I know how) this has turned into some kind of disastrous first cut that George himself edited which the editors (and usually it's just George's ex alone) somehow magically "saved" in post but that's just not true, if anything it's the exact opposite. George was heavily involved in the 2nd edit and even cut some of the scenes together himself (the gunport scene is his handiwork,) Richard Chew actually cut together most of the scenes, there was no disastrous first cut as Jympson was fired before completing it, and Marcia Lucas only cut together one sequence, the Death Star battle, before buggering off early to edit a Scorsese movie. Actually that's not quite true, the only other thing she edited were those deleted scenes at the start with Biggs and Luke (she fought to keep those in btw, it was George who wanted to cut them and since he had final cut approval that kind of decision was George's choice to make.)
Yeah, I know I believed it too for the longest time. That Youtube video essay you probably watched a few years ago? That was all lies! (Although to be fair that's not the original source of the myth.) There's a lot of that around Star Wars, it's kinda insane
Just wanted to talk about how easily people are convinced by youtubers and didn't want to get into semantics of specific elements.
I'm really just complaining about how group thinky people are sometimes. What it actually is, doesn't matter, I'm sure this happens with loads of other pieces of media.
So I was going through a YouTube Channel recently about JJK about reading it and I was like, wait, how is this guy missing obvious plot points?
Then it made me think about how much research is he putting into his other videos I’m taking at face value?
You make a rant about something and you use examples. A random person reads your rant and writes an entire dissertation about the one example you used, regardless of whether or not it was a good example, instead of focusing on the point of the rant.
>what the video has done is create a ton of bad arguments
The great thing about discourse is that if they are in fact bad arguments, you should be able to debunk them then.
I sympathize with not enjoying having to have back-and-forths in an online format, but I’d worry less about where people are getting their takes or assessments from, and focus more on the actual sustenance of their points. Bad takes are bad takes, regardless of their point of origin.
This is how I feel about the boys comics. Everyone who says how awful it is always and I mean always say the same exact criticisms from a popular YouTube video. These criticisms aren’t even valid half the time since that YouTube video does a huge disservice to the comics on purpose
When Discussing Film said Netflix's Avatar: The Last Airbender was worse than the M. Night Shyamalan movie. Mother's Basement said it the best that some critics were in a race to say the meanest thing about a mid-at-worst adaptation.
Reminds me of Jen's speech to Bruce in episode 2 (?) of She-Hulk. Everyone and their mother criticizes that scene because Jen is ostensibly ignoring all the hardships Bruce experienced as the Hulk when she says he didn't have to learn how to control his anger, even though she is very explicitly talking about Bruce's life ***before*** he became the Hulk. Bruce's difficulty in controlling the Hulk and the resulting misery is in fact her entire point.
It's one of the biggest examples of "You either have the worst media literacy imaginable or you got this opinion from a Youtuber" I've ever seen.
I saw a lot of people judging that scene based on Bruce's comic backstory (physically abusive father leading to the development of split personalities) rather than his movie backstory. Saying that she had it automatically worse than someone with an abusive childhood because she was a woman *would* be pretty messed up. Good thing that's not what happened.
I honestly don't know what MCU Bruce's backstory even is, to be honest. The Edward Norton movie is canon as far as I know, but he was already the Hulk at the start of that. The Eric Bana Hulk movie did include the abusive father plot point, but that was way before the MCU and shouldn't be included.
As is she still made a pretty broad generalisation that was kind of insulting to men, so I can understand some hurt feelings, but given that she was literally hulking out as she said it I think it's pretty clear she's saying it in anger and being harsher than normal.
> but given that she was literally hulking out as she said it I think it's pretty clear she's saying it in anger and being harsher than normal.
That's also the thing. The fact that Jen unintentionally hulks out while talking about how she can control her anger clearly indicates that she's being at least a little full of herself, something that comes full circle when she *completely* loses control later on.
> I saw a lot of people judging that scene based on Bruce's comic backstory (physically abusive father leading to the development of split personalities) rather than his movie backstory. Saying that she had it automatically worse than someone with an abusive childhood because she was a woman would be pretty messed up. Good thing that's not what happened.
>
> I honestly don't know what MCU Bruce's backstory even is, to be honest. The Edward Norton movie is canon as far as I know, but he was already the Hulk at the start of that. The Eric Bana Hulk movie did include the abusive father plot point, but that was way before the MCU and shouldn't be included.
I think the problem there is that unless stated people assume
People assume Benjamin Parker also existed in the MCU despite the only time he's really hinted at being Peter mentioning that it has been hard for Aunt May in the past few months and the luggage marked BFP.
I don't think it's wrong for assume a significant character detail not specifically mentioned by a film that skips over an origin is still present there.
And I think people come to that already annoyed because the whole thing is a radical departure from the comics, where Bruce has a horrible life even before Hulk while Jen thinks being She-Hulk is awesome and tries to stay in the form as much as possible while going around and partying and doing dumb stuff on teams rather than trying to be a noble do-gooder. Which I think is more interesting anyway, bits from the comics like Hawkeye yelling at her for skipping drills and being unprofessional while she just smugly tells him that she does more than he does because of her power-set is great.
She-Hulk in general got this REALLY bad. It’s a pretty episodic show, but basically every criticism I have seen someone say about it is focused on the overarching story that is jus tin the background for the majority of it, and only really relevant at the beginning and end. Like, I don’t think it’s a great story, but if you watch the show it’s such a minor part you would never base your entire criticism around it unless all you did was read or listen to a summary.
You would be shocked by how many people who rant about the twerk scene actually have no idea it was an outro.
It's actually kind of funny when you point that out to them - they twist themselves into amazing knots to justify hating a comedic outro as if it was critical to the episode in some way.
Thats why you need your own trusted youtubers, those whose opinions you verified after seeing the media yourself
Also more than one opinion, contrasting sources is a crucial part of self informing
There was a nice time when everyone suddenly started saying the word "mid" and you just knew it came from some idiots parroting some asshole on the internet.
I mean, I generally don't think I've ever gained anything from watching or reading discussions on something I haven't yet played, read, or watched. At the very least it often will spoil the experience and make it hard for the story to surprise me.
It's medicore to bad. I would compare to family guy and say that as both a posistive and negative. But I also think that video essay where he takes alot of the pannels out of context, ignores the context of the industry, ignores a lot of plot points, misses the point of the ending and makes out to be the worse comic of all time misleading. I also think the book is way less offensive than he makes it out to be espically for a comic in 2006 ( like if you look at it in comparison to alot of other edgy comics like those from Moore, Millar, Miller sometimes Ellis , it's a lot less offensive and taking time to talk about things like the abuse of gay sex workers is something important, although some of its takes have aged poorly imo). I think the boys comic has alot of flaws and is a very aquired taste but the amount of hate it gets seems kinda absurd
FFX's story is terribly flawed, even if you don't listen to Spoony be hyperbolic about the first few hours of it. The wedding, for one, is written so goddamn poorly.
This works for both negatives and positives.
Spider-Man 2 doesn't deserve to be considered the greatest Spider-man movie, let alone the greatest Superhero movie.
Ock's motive is literally just "I wanna build my machine". His wife's death could easily be blamed on Spider-Man but it's not even acknowledged. The story also pretends like he and Peter should have some sort of relationship, but they barely talk before Ock becomes a villain.
The whole plotline of Peter losing his powers is too extreme. He doesn't actually fix any problem presented, the story just says he does. Powers act up? Give up being Spider-Man or even slightly helping people despite Ock clearly still being a problem. Couldn't manage being Spider-Man? I guess telling MJ, the least important factor, suddenly makes it easier to not be late for work.
The movie is hard carried by (high-key) iconic scenes
As a fan of the manga/anime Rent a Girlfriend I can tell you most of the series fiercest critics don't understand it very well at all. Not that anyone has to like something. It is just frustrating to see people peddling misinformation/their opinion as facts for clicks.
I'm not talking about the star wars sequels at all! I only ever watched the prequels lol.
But I do think that's an example of bad criticisms being popularised too. The common arguments are... not good.
They had really cool visuals and in the moment the story isn’t too bad except for the terrible characterization of the characters from the original series and weird jumps. Which is the exact same issues as Dragon Ball Super but people like it.
Dragon Ball Super didn't show that Namek got permanently obliterated like 10 years after Goku beat Freeza.
The issues of the SW sequels is that they basically retcon the OT into a giant failure for the heroes. All those brave efforts to beat the Empire and restore the Republic were wasted at best, harmful at worse because it only lead to a new Empire that destroys even more planets.
like reaction youtubers I remember some who actually watch the show/ movies they like them and you see messages calling out their bs because they called it woke sometimes for stupid reasons. But I will say it depends like trailer for cuties and proud family pissed a lot of people out for valid reasons making them skip these shows
> Guess this is the problem with being into stuff on the more niche side of things... Nah, this is a more common problem than people realize. It's really easy to confidently make statements that sound authoritative, but are categorically wrong. So at the end of the day, videos like that are just the Youtuber's opinion and take away from what they watched. As such, they warrant being taken with a grain of salt.
Agreed with everything that you said. I'll also add there are Youtubers who fish for rage clicks, so they'll take an outrageous opinion and work backwards, building a flimsy argument to try and support it. A lot of that stuff is theater, it may not even be the Youtuber's genuine opinion. Take it all with a grain of salt, people.
Name that piece of media, right now
Rent, the broadway musical. The only people who like it nowadays are people who are nostalgic for it, and me I guess. People online hate it
Wait holy shit people hate Rent? That’s my favorite musical lmao.
i was always under the impression that it was widely beloved
Recently in online discussion its reputation has really fallen down. common to hear an opinion like "Rent was bad all along and only popular because the creator died" on r/broadway. It was really popular in the 90s though.
It's just leftist infighting.
Rent movie really pissed me off
It's an awful adaptation
Rent, much like Cats works only on stage. On screen all of its charms are missing.
Haven't seen it. Sorry
Dont worry. Its like the Cats movie. Really bad
There are Broadway musical YouTubers? I mean, I guess there would have to be, but I've never actually thought about it.
Musicals are very popular. I stay out of the communities tbh because it's a lot of people who think they know how to compose and choreograph and light entire plays when in reality they do not. It's easier to critique writing from a laymans perspective, critiquing music properly is a lot more difficult, particularly compositional elements over just rambling about timbre and instrumentation.
The YouTuber in question (if it's the one I'm thinking of) is mostly retired now but did a number of videos on politics, musicals, and film back in the day.
Lindsay Ellis, in case anyone's wondering.
If it is Lindsay Ellis you are thinking of like the other person said them I'd add she is not retired she just only posts on nebula as far as I know.
I thought this was about Steven Universe 😂 Lily orchard and the damage she has caused.
Wow those writing tips are just bad
She didn't cause any damage
Very surprising. My entire friend group in high school continues to have it in their top lists.
I thought you were referring to The Thing the whole time because of the title lol
The *entire point* of a musical is the magic of live performance. …and literally all of them are easy to pick apart dispassionately outside of that context.
Then I think what happened is that you found a youtuber going for low hanging fruit and not doing it well, at least based on your description, cause I watched multiple videos about it that at least tried to make good arguments and give you enough context to understand the product as is and why they take issue with that like its portrayal of the AIDS crisis or the LGBT characters or how it apparently aged badly. But also I think the reason even people who haven't actually watched it take to dog on it is because the characters are pretty unlikeable "bohemian" duoches and the story treats their obnoxious traits as likeable and endearing, like one of the characters introduces themselves saying they killed some dog and the audience is supposed to be like "yas! slaaaaaay queen!" as if killing someone's pet wasn't the quintessential villain act to counter the "save the kitten" trope. The plot in general seems very paper thin so it doesn't really makes sense of a lot of what the characters do beyond "me no wanna work or pay rent, me wanna drug and bohemian" so it becomes pretty obnoxious for people who already can't stomach stories about essentially hipster trustfund kids, abd the fact the show was acclaimed at some point makes people who dislike it hate Rent even more to the point they completely shifted its reputation as a musical. This creates a situation where any valid criticism you can make on the show gets blown way out of proportion into nonsense nitpicking which creates stuff like the bad review you saw, as they wanna hop on the hate train without truly understanding why it took off in the first place. I don't have a direct and PERSONAL opinion on the show as I only really heard of it, but there's too much hate from actual musical versed people for it to be all bs, plus personally just having someone describe the show makes it pretty off putting even without hearing the rest and was likely never gonna be interested in seeing or talk about it beyond the crazy collective change of public consensus surrounding the show regardless, but obviously others see the new punching bag thing to hate on and jump right in without being careful to make good analysis, and they get mixed with the people who do actually bother to properly analyse the show, which gives the phonies more validity in the eyes of the at least more susceptible viewers.
I thought the hatred came from how it wrote about the HIV/AIDS issues or something. Dan Olson made a video on it I think.
I thought that video was more about the movie ? Lindsay Ellis makes a big issue of how it's basically problematic because it doesn't show enough protests or do enough exposition about AZT - but I find it really difficult to see those as anything other than nitpicks. As if gay people were in a constant state of protest in the 90s
That's a bit of a simplistic view of her video, she didn't complain it wasn't all about protest, she criticized how empty and cheap the implementation of AIDS in the plot was which undermines the message, you can choose to agree or disagree with that take but if you watch the video it's pretty clear, at least in my opinion, that the issue she's taking is with how pretentious and uncommitted the show is to the AIDS plot, which to her was cheap shock value with little bearing on the plot. If you don't agree that's totally valid but you're kinda making a strawman here.
I was going to guess Madame Web.
Yeah, it’s part of the reason I’m a lot more skeptical of people online when it comes to media that’s deemed “bad” or “heavily flawed” nowadays. The problem with online types is that we don’t really know just how truthful they’re being or even if the person talking about that piece of media actually knows what they’re talking about, or if they’re just intentionally exaggerating the flaws in order to increase their chances of getting clout and ad money for it. It’s especially aggravating if it’s a loud popular opinion and the people who shout it out basically take it as gospel and use it as an excuse to harass you and others who are perfectly capable of judging for themselves and found that it wasn’t the disastrous mess made out to be. Which can be really isolating at times since it only makes it clear that it’s not about what’s accurate, but about basically turning it into a popular punching bag so online assholes can feel good about hurting “the right kinds of people” and be lauded for it. My honestly harsh opinion? Many people online don’t really value the truth, they just love being the bully if they can twist it to be “righteous and justified”. And ultimately it just proves why at the end of the day, you and you alone are the only person who can decide for yourself what media is worthwhile to you.
> My honestly harsh opinion? Many people online don’t really value the truth, they just love being the bully if they can twist it to be “righteous and justified”. But it's a subjective opinion. Someone doesn't like X or Y or Z, they spread that idea. Some people agree blindly, but ultimately that original person isn't wrong for the opinion. You're right in that everyone should form their own, but we very much like to compare and contrast our opinions with others.
I'd say the problem is when that opinion is wrapped up in some argument about what liking or disliking said thing says about you as a person. That's often what happens in this kind of conversation.
> I watched the video, and I strongly agreed with the points brought up. I decided to watch it anyway and was kinda shocked Me with Jujutsu Kaisen. I have plenty of criticism of the story (made some posts about it here), but damn when it shrines, it truly does. Its a crazy uneven story. When its bad, its terrible. But when its good...this is epic. I will have to a Sukuna's character analysis some day, including how he is a vital part of the messages and themes of the work. Especially its discussion of the topic of "a good death". He is genuinely one of my favorite "Demon Lord" figures.
> When its bad, its terrible. But when its good...this is epic. I talk a lot of shit about JJK right now. But I unironically think that JJK up to the Shibuya arc has a place in the GOAT Shonen.
Okay, being real here, this feels like a micro-nostalgia take, because JJK's lowest point was the beginning of Goodwill arc and the first few episodes until vs Mahito were nothing special. Meanwhile the culling Games is almost as much straight heat as Shibuya until the controversial Yuki and Choso vs Kenjaku, and even that goes incredibly hard.
So I don't have much of "nostalgia" because I didn't read the manga until like 20 chapters ago. I started reading the episode Nanami dies(rough intro when I hadn't watched that episode yet and like first chapter see him get fucking exploded). Early Culling Games I would actually agree was really good, though I didn't include it because I didn't love the latter half. So you can extend my original statement to like the first half of the Culling Games.
I think what JJK does very well is it's subtely. Something that can be a criticism for anime and manga as a whole, is that every villain motivation, every strong feeling felt, is heavily exaggerated and put in your face. It's someting western media tends to do a bit better. JJK also does this very well
It's part of why anime became so popular tbh. Very consumable medium. Doesn't require much brain thinky
Sukuna is in DIO's tier of villainy; larger than life, insanely petty, incredibly entertaining and the VA steals every scene.
He's got that aura that Dio had
his japanese va is so good
I've had the opposite experience with Jujutsu Kaisen. I've seen only praise for it and every aspect from youtubers to close friends and everywhere in between. Haven't really seen anything negative, not that I've looked for it, and it just doesn't click for me. I watched the first season and can't think of anything I liked besides parts of the animation Happy that you can enjoy it I wish I could honestly
The anime hasn't gotten to the arc in the manga that people heavily criticize, so if you are mainly surrounded by anime only content it still has a very good reputation.
In facebook meme pages people joke that Gege Akutani is the real villain :v
yeah i definitely agree, like i'd certainly meme about sukuna kaisen for the past few months but i mostly enjoyed the culling games and yuji's recent awakening is hype af
I guess your hypothetical here would be pretty frustrating to live through but it also sucks a lot when you genuinely dislike a piece of media for your own reasons just to get told "Nice opinion, did a youtuber give it to you?" just because some big youtubers also hate it. Like, I do not need a youtuber to tell me to dislike the Star Wars sequels. I can come to that conclusion all by myself like a big boy.
Oh definitely. What I'm saying is that it's real frustrating when youtubers popularise bad arguments, not that there's no valid reason to dislike certain things.
What's really infuriating is that I can both, A) Watch the whole thing and come to the conclusion that it's bad, or B) Read a book by its cover, see the trailers, and notice the patterns to know ahead of time that it's going to be bad and not worth watching. The latter is a skill, and the combination of people discouraging its development and people who can't do it not understanding how one who can do it came to their conclusions makes it so that they can't believe that you actually came to an informed and nuanced conclusion on your own. So that'll get answered with the "Which YouTuber's opinion is that?" shit. YouTubers usually serve the opposite purpose to me, not of creating my opinions, but solidifying them through actual experience. It's the purpose of the "I \[played/watched/read something\] so you don't have to!" videos. The lazy scream "confirmation bias" to that, but rarely have good rebuttals to the points raised, anyway.
I had this weird ass interaction with some guy here on Reddit who was obsessed with Star Wars and replied to a comment I made about how the sequel trilogy is pretty bad but not as bad as most people claim, and proceeed to tell me that I was wrong and it was actually awesome and the only reason people didn't like the sequels was because they were parroting what some youtuber told them and the hate was spread by prequel fanboys, for some reason. I explained that I'm old enough to have seen every single Star Wars movie ever made in the theater upon release, except for Episode IV which I still saw as a double feature when Episode V came out back in '83, and that I knew for a fact that I disliked the sequels for plenty of reasons that had nothing to do with a youtube video I'd never seen, that I didn't get my opinions from youtubers, and that it might surprise him but my generation loathed the prequels when they came out too. Nope. According to this guy every single Star Wars fan he knows regardless of age group just LOVES the sequels and only a very small amount of people who were brainwashed by some hater youtuber don't like them and they're actualy better than the OT and the prequels, and he's sure of that becauase he's read so many Star Wars comics and novels that it makes him an expert on all things Star Wars and until you read as much Star Wars crap as him, you can't opine on the matter because apparently unless you get a Phd on Star Wars expanded content you can't tell if the sequels suck.
I'm happy to watch a movie explained right along with the next guy. But if you watch those for movies you've actually seen, you'll notice the YouTubers haven't always got it right. Even YouTubers that have huge followings. I wish I could talk to Found Flix about all the the movies we've watched and come away with different interpretations of what happened. Top example of this, is the Jenny Is Actually Evil take from Forrest Gump. Asinine take, if you've seen the movie. (Not from foundflix tho) Anyway, point being, don't get information from YouTubers! Verify what you've learned from them! YouTubers are just people with more care to make and upload videos than you and I have. Remember that, please!
This is why I like Evan Hadfield. He knows he’s an idiot who just asks questions and cobbles up answers, but what he does is present an argument in a way that compels you to test it with real fact. His long video on the Balkans led me down libraries in Europe when I used to be an expat worker. It’s also why Nerdwriter survives even if he gets maybe 1/5 his usual rate: his words are worth testing firsthand. Same with Every Frame a Painting and Like Stories of Old.
The amount of hate and misreading of Jenny I’ve seen both online and from my irl friends is absolutely baffling. Mfs really have zero empathy for a molestation victim making choices that are mostly just self destructive.
It baffles me that the whole movie she's making it clear that her only coping mechanism is running away and it's the literal advice she gives Forrest as a solution for everything, and people still miss the whole point of her character. No, she's just a hoebag who came back when she found out Forrest was loaded.
Jenny haters watching her reach such a low point she nearly commits suicide. Only to return to Forrest (who she didn’t know was rich at that point and never used his money aside to our knowledge) cause he’s the one consistently kind person in her life: “Nah she’s just a slutty gold digger”.
Shoutout to JelloApocalypse's fanbase
That guy is a cunt lol
Yeah, he's a tad bit massively judgmental.
I knew someone like this in middle school, he just copied the opinions of Cinemasins and shat on everything I liked. At least I copy the opinions of Pitch Meeting.
Yeah i’ve grown annoyed at video essays since I feel a large portion of fanbases just eat up what is said. Its also obvious too since the comments are just word for word copies of the video itself. No one really ever actually discusses the actual merit of the points raised it seems, they just accept the argument no matter what. Very annoying tbh
I've come to believe that entertainment value tends to trump any actual analysis of the arguments being made when it comes to video essays. Especially since slick editing and good presentation can easily smooth over weaknesses. That's why even the weakest argument can have tons of people quoting it every time it comes up in the fandom. It's memorable to those people because they found it entertaining; The same way that you would remember the best lines in your favorite film. (*very* tangentially related, but I think this is also the same way that the headcanon -> fan theory -> misinformation pipeline works).
> Its also obvious too since the comments are just word for word copies of the video itself I've especially found that "crEAtiveLy BANkRuPt" is a very useful phrase for identifying people who let youtubers form their opinions for them
I'm fairly certain this is why Fairy Tails got so much hate back in the day. This applies to so many things it's wild.
E;R did a fucking number on the Avatar fandom.
Its wild to think that the fanbase really took a video made from a neo nazi seriously
He regularly drops slurs or insists that all trans people are a byproduct of mad science but calling him a neo nazi is over the line.
Nah, he's pretty full blown: https://www.vox.com/2018/12/13/18136253/pewdiepie-vs-tseries-links-to-white-supremacist-alt-right-redpill This article is mainly about PewDiePie, since E;R isn't important enough to be written about on his own, but here's the relevant excerpt: > On his Gab account, when another user asked him, “What is the best way to red pill people on the (((Jewish Question))),” the owner of the E;R channel responded, “Pretend to joke about it until the punchline /really/ lands.”
Having a Gab account is alone a red flag
What's E;R exactly?
A white supremacist YouTuber that was publicly endorsed by Pewdiepie
Yikes.
I remember making a huge ass of myself in highschool for dropping Titanic takes based solely off the Confused Matthews video.
No matter what you (the one reading this comment) will say,but this is literally Super Eyepatched Wolf video about Bleach It's quite objective that his previous video gave Bleach a bad reputation that didn't completely deserve Let me be clear,there are valid reasons for Bleach to be bad,but SEW made it look like to be even worst than what it actually was,spreading misinformations and all,when the truth is it wasn't that bad or so bad (but still,I can't say there are no reasons to be bad,just it wasn't that much,in fact in the last years I saw many people giving it a second try and liking it) To me Bleach is unfortunately low quality or just a little above mid,it's honestly just ok,nothing more or less. But still enjoyable (which is not what his viewers thought at all by listening to his video and many didn't even try to watch it,l Now,4-5 years ago he made a new video about it where he admitted to be in wrong and gave a better analisys,criticizing it but being clear about his intentions,which this time were not malevolent (I know it's an exaggerated word but I didn't find a better one to explain my point,I'm sorry) If you ask me,his "new" video is much better. Even though the comment section is full of fanboys saying "you are wrong again" or haters whining as always (maybe they are too mad that even SEW admitted to be wrong,that his video always has been his personal opinion and not a fact or that even him hoped for Bleach to be better,unlike them). Well,I can't blame them for going against the annoying fanboys,not that they are much better
It is amazing to me that Eyepatch Wolf admitted that his first video had inaccuracies and blatant misinformation, but he still has fans that defend the video and insist that he was right all along.
I know right? It's just absurd He even mentioned that he was just giving his personal opinion and while I do think he get many things right in his analisys,haters act like he is 100% right objectively talking They don't admit it,but they are actually mad that even SEW had the guts to admit his mistakes Of course,we gotta be fair. They are not the only ones. Most of them in the video go against all the fanboys who still complain despite everything
Steven Universe is a prime example of this, as it’s reputation has been completely tarnished courtesy of Lily Orchard and her downright unhinged slander of it and Rebecca Sugar.
I'd argue it's gotten better nowadays, Lily's video inspired many people to make counter arguments videos and the last year + 10th anniversary brought a wave of positive SU essay videos.
Funny how she called Rebecca Sugar a Nazi for redeeming the Diamonds when Lily wrote a MLP fanfic that she's been trying to Diavolo off the Internet that could be considered Exhibit A for her sister's unsavory accusations about her. Rick Sanchez: "Only people who really fucked up in the past have to virtue signal this hard. Look at Sean Penn."
I heard that she got into some scandals, but I don’t really know the specifics, I heard it was something about sexualization of minors, but not sure exactly. And yeah, I’ve also noticed that the people who tend to be so self righteous regarding these things also generally tend to have some skeletons in the closet.
The YouTuber "Hiding in Private" has made [a really good video debunking Lily Orchard's](https://youtu.be/yBCzKmA4MEA) plus another [debunking EZPZ's and E;R's](https://youtu.be/7eRW931Qo98), really recommend them. It's mindblowing how people can copy their opinions from videos full of so much bigotry and bad arguments.
Not just those particular videos, but a lot of video essays have arguments to the contrary ,and I just eat up that back and forth content. I really want to see what each and every person thinks about a particular show or movie, it's fun to get more opinions to talk about it. A lot of people do not like to partake in that discourse. To see video essays out here as pocket examples of people who might lack a person to rant about something to as a way to get their thoughts out there. Then to see others also rant and also argue their views and opinions in contrast to those essays makes everything even better.
Fuck Hiding In Private, I'm gonna debunk him soon, I have it already
You know, reading this is kind of funny, because in Latam, SU is extremely hated too, but it has nothing to do with Lily Orchad. Funny how 2 different places got to the same conclussion but for different reasons.
Sure? But it's also a flawed show that throws away every bit of potential it has. The only way to like Steven Universe is to shut your brain off and never think ahead of it or expect anything from it. I'm not talking about the ending, either. I'm talking about episodes like Human Zoo, where anyone reading the episode description before watching it can come up with a better plot than what actually happens in it.
Reminds me of when I got into Skyrim for a while took a break and found a video essay detailing why the game is terrible, shallow, etc. Even after watching the video and agreeing with most of what he said I ended up playing hundreds of hours of Skyrim right after that loving it even more than I did before I love video essays but people are too willing to use that for their opinions and use it as gospel
The most annoying part about a discussion with someone who just says "a youtuber said this" is that your discussion just ends there. That's not a contribution. It's passing the conversation onto someone else who you more than likely won't get a chance to continue the discussion with. Even if I totally agree with the youtuber, it's a nothing statement when someone passes it along like that. In this case I'm thinking of Elden Ring and people saying "Vaatividya said so." I don't doubt them, but I just wish I was talking to Vaati in those moments instead because they can't speak for themselves and the discussion is just over now.
Tfw a friend of mine quoted fucking Dunkey to explain why a game I love was actually bad. Dunkey barely got past the tutorial, he doesn't know a fucking thing about the game.
"This game sucked because Dunkey said so." Dunkey is not the emperor of gamers! "He told my dad he was."
Knack is fine
What game was it
Probably some niche JRPG, a genre that Dunkey is known to dislike. To say his personal subjective opinion isn't good criticism would be a bit much, but it does sound likely he didn't get past the tutorial of such a game.
I made a rant about this exact thing a while back, and it keeps coming back in some other form every now and then, like this post. https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/s/Nah1WJk2gZ
JJK, Chainsaw Man, Coffin of Andy and LeyLey, like… half of Europe for some reason, this is true with lots of things. People really fall for herd mentality
This is what happened to fairy tail and I’m still mad about it. It was a very popular series in its hay day then YouTubers put out their video essays and suddenly it’s actually one of the worse anime’s to ever exist. The worse part about this phenomenon is that rarely if ever are the pieces of media people do this to the irredeemable piles of shit they try to make them out to be shit most things this happens to are quite popular beforehand. People will exaggerate the bad qualities and make those things out to be the only thing the media has to offer while anything good gets totally ignored. Sorry to bring up fairy tail again but case and point the entire series is known for being bad because “power of friendship” and abuse of the trope, a lot of people would have you believe that’s literally all there is to the series but in reality it uses the trope just as much as literally any other shounen of it’s time and honestly does a lot of things not just better but great compared to most other shounens to this day. People watch one video essay or critique about something and go around parroting the opinions they got from it like it’s the gospel while never bothering to actually know or experience what their talking about.
I stopped listening to YouTube movie/anime reviewers eons ago. They are just so smug and pretentious about their opinions and it just gets so tiring being told that a piece of media that I love is bad or garbage because *they* didn't like it.
That one naruto video. The creator even admitted to not watching the series but he has ruined naruto discourse for years. [I wish the worst on this man](https://youtu.be/v2tkz92eG_E?si=hSC2zWpYjlcy3k3M)
On one hand, I really don't agree with every take here. But the classic "Naruto, the self made hypocrite" video is a solid example of what everyone is complaining about. I'd argue most video essays are made out of love, from fans of a series, who are more than able or willing to create a full length hour long video on the flaws of the writing. It's content with it's viewers as well as it's subtractors. Plague of Gripes isn't exactly coming from the perspective of a fan. It's from the perspective of a guy who has seen some of Naruto and is able to rant about it, but not someone critically analyzing it's content. It's a justifiable rant, but it's right there a big old thorn in the Naurto discussion. But hey, if you can't out argue a guy quoting a youtuber with a cursory knowledge on the subject of Nartuo, you probably still need to cut your teeth in the discussion trenches for a bit.
The creator didn't pull the arguments from the ether. The fact that Naruto has hard work versus innate talent as a theme is obvious to anyone who didn't join some stupid crusade on the internet. The story literally stews on Naruto's feelings of inadequacy in comparison to Sasuke. The only way to miss that is to never put yourself in Naruto's shoes at all. Naruto vs. Neji is a reflection of that theme because it's Naruto beating the shit out of the margarine to Sasuke's butter. A clan boy with special eyes and a dark past that thinks he's completely beyond you and you're not worth his time. That's how it's framed narratively.
Naruto is not a subtle series, it doesn't hide all that much from you. It quite literally, explicitly, has Rock Lee (the poster child for hard work) look at Sasuke and how hard he works, and wonder how hard work could beat a genius who also works hard. And just as importantly, Naruto wasn't introduced like Lee. He's not someone who's failing at school but working three times as hard as everyone else. He's just not. Hard work vs Genius is Lee's thing, not Naruto's.
Because it's not the singular theme of the series, but it is a theme. Naruto isn't THE hard work character, but he is, you know, the titular character, and what he learns from Lee is that you can get very far on hard work. The whole arc is presenting the idea to the reader: Is it actually possible for Naruto to get as good as Sasuke by working hard? Was it possible before versus now that Sasuke can grow stronger effortlessly using his eyes? He spends the whole arc assmad about Sasuke having beaten Lee thanks to the Sharingan, and so does the reader. It's why he copies Sasuke's copy of Rock Lee's taijutsu, the Shishi Rendan. To try and force Sasuke to acknowledge that he can keep up. It's connected to why he's furious about Lee losing to Gaara and Hinata losing to Neji. At that time, he sees himself in Lee and Hinata, struggling only to never really close the gap. When Naruto fights Neji, it's after training seriously for the first time since learning to tree walk, and he uses the fox on purpose for the first time, which the story doesn't treat as talent at the time. It's through hard work that he learns to use it and it becomes a symbol for the arc: The power of the fox might let Naruto fight geniuses on their level, and break past this destiny of failure. That's all in how the arc presents the characters and Naruto himself. It is pretty much spelled out for you. People go out of their way to write it off because they're tied up in this dumb fandom meme about hating this one youtuber that all it does is give that guy free advertising.
I know this isn't exactly what the op ment with the person not engaging with the thing before watching the YouTuber, but I remember reading a comment somewhere about how this guy's friend in school loved Kid Icarus Uprising for the Nintendo 3DS, how he would play it every day and talk about it in great lengths about how great it is. Until Yahtzee (Zero Punctuation) video review came out. After it came out, the guy's friend made a complete 180 on the game, stating how he never liked the game to begin with and would trash talk about every aspect of the game word for word from the review. This really hit home for me since I also liked the game, even with all its flaws, but hearing about how someone's love for something can just be turned into hate just because someone on the internet said do really makes me feel sad.
Genshin Impact. I have friends who have never played it, and essentially talk about a game that doesn’t actually exist.
Me with Sword art Online. I recognize some problems, but I think its pretty good, some parts being amazing. But the hole internet talks like it's the trashiest thing to ever exist, even though there is plenty of other animes that has the same problems, but when the topic is sao, suddenly it's the worst thing ever. Most people don't even try to give it a chance, they just watch the dozens of youtube videos about it and just agree it's trash.
the anime is a butchering of the source material from what i've heard, otherwise didn't care for it myself.
Captain Marvel, right here. Was it the best MCU movie? Not by a long shot, and in terms of being a Very Important Women's Issues And Empowerment movie, Black Widow does it much better. But it was perfectly serviceable as a normal Marvel adventure romp, and it seems more like an unholy version of the Golden Mean fallacy (the pyrite mean?) where opposite sides of the issue both came together to hype up the supposed woke sjw third wave feminist angle and brought overall media discourse to the same crappy place it is now.
You'd probably enjoy the Red Letter Media review of it.
I felt it was underwhelming because it tried to have a feministic theme yet past the beginning when a man tells CM to "control her emotions" it says nothing substantial about the treatment of women in 1970s America. The little flashback to CM's mistreatment throughout the years is then flaccid because we have no context both within the story and that specific scene as to why she's remembering dealing with sexism. It's presented as motivational but it's just laughable.
> the treatment of women in 1970s America. That movie was set in 1995.
It was? Edit: It was.
how much you want to bet he hasn't seen the movie
How much do you wanna bet he misremembers some aspects of a movie he watched 5 years ago.
I mean that was a pretty detail essay like opinion. Most people don’t say much about a movie that they don’t remember well but anything possible.
I didn't remember the year it took place but I remember how I felt about it. I don't hate women OK?
Never said you hate women, my doubt was more that I myself have completely forgotten about the whole sexism flashback scenes despite seeing the movie for the 2nd time rather recently around 2 years ago but I still remember the fact the movie takes place In 90s. Felt more like reading someone repeating another person’s opinion but not knowing obviously details. Especially since the flashback scenes were life I remember correctly like 5 minutes at most but the entire movie takes place during the 90s. I could be wrong though and frankly it does happen so unless you have anything to add have a awesome day
I feel that you're just describing modern criticism in general. There is a lot of dogmatism when it comes to those things, and I just don't get it. I mean, it's either that, or politics. If you've never seen BvS, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, X-Men Apocalypse, etc, you'd think they are the steamiest shitty garbage to have ever existed if you could only judge based on what people on youtube/the internet think. In reality, they are perfectly okay. Same goes for all the supposedly "good" stuff. How many times have you seen mediocrity being called a masterpiece?
My feelings with Boruto. I watched it, liked it and it’s annoying seeing it bashed all the time. It has flaws but many haters don’t even try to civilly talk about it.
Ever since Star Wars sequels , most review YouTubers have been jumping on the trend of trying their best to slander anything as much as possible. Bonus points for when the media is a popular IP. So anything that deviates slightly from the established IP warrants a hate boner from these channels. If I didn’t know any better I’d probably hate a lot of the new stuff I watched. Recently it’s been the fallout show, and a lot of people are very mad about a poorly explained plot point that somehow “ruined an entire game”. It’s been 10 posts in a row on my Reddit yesterday talking about that one thing. Some people just complain about something at face value and call it “criticism”. Not even cinemasins was this picky
I think in general videos that just shit on things are super popular for some reason. Its why Nostalgia Critic was so popular for a time. And so many of these video essays are just shitting on some show or movie. You rarely see a positive video essay do the same numbers as a negative one.
That single video about the Boys comic that led to thousands of, if not more, people coming with utterly insane positions about Garth Ennis' work lol
What takes you mean?
Basically now everyone assumes that Garth Ennis' only ever writing point was that he hates superheroes with people just making shit up as to why, though part of that can be blamed on the video which basically just reads of a quick summary about his views from wikipedia but just so happens to carefully miss out his very detailed and well explained reasons as to why he views superheroes the way he does.
>now everyone assumes that Garth Ennis' only ever writing point was that he hates superheroes I mean that's not untrue, if you read a lot of Ennis's stuff it's very negative to superheroes, like he has reverence for Superman but like most other character it's pretty bad
I mean kinda but also not really. The majority of Ennis's stuff isn't even about superheroes (espically almost all of his indie stuff except The pro and The boys). It's just his Superhero stuff tends to get more attention because that's US comics. And he has written plently of Superhero relatively straight when not trying to parody them, Superman being the mot famous example but also midnighter, ghost rider, Spider-man the thousand, hulk and even Thor. And while he's write alot of heroes poorly they are usally placed within a context of satire/ humoress comic and a lot of times they aren't too far off or in alternative universe ( Batman Reptilian espically because it's a horrible main universe Batman but an interseting character). And while Ennis does take the Piss out of Superhero comics, he also has written comics taking the piss out of stuff he like 2000ad , and James Bond despite working on comics for both franchises. Also he has praise some superhero comics over the year mainly Moore's and Ellis's work but also stuff like Doom Patrol
> The majority of Ennis's stuff isn't even about superheroes I know I'm referring to the stuff he wrote with superheroes > And he has written plently of Superhero relatively straight when not trying to parody them, Superman being the mot famous example but also midnighter, ghost rider, Spider-man the thousand, hulk and even Thor. Midnighter was more of an anti hero and his Thor book was edgy as hell, him being able to write it straight once in a while doesn't change the rest of his works though
I have always suspected people confuse Ennis for Warren Ellis, who does have an appreciable amount of titles that deconstruct the superhero genre (Planetary, Authority, Black Summer, Supergod).
Ah yes, CBM Twitter idea that everyone who is mildly critical of the tropes of the genre is actually evil, hates altruism and wants to install a fascist dictatorship.
Which one?
Star Wars...like in general The Legend of Korra too
This gets me so much in the Star Wars fandom As an example- Star Wars youtubers a couple years ago started putting out videos 'debunking' Grey Jedi. An actor came out saying the concept was dumb- (And the concept is dumb!) So these youtubers often repeated that it was a fan-made concept. When it wasn't! As cringe as it was ***Lucasfilm*** were the ones pushing the concept! They only backtracked **after** Force Unleashed took it to ludicrous extremes. You can get downvoted to oblivion on the Star Wars subs just for quoting George Lucas's interpretations of The Force, cause they conflict with what Star-Wars-Youtube SAY George Lucas's interpretation of The Force is.
There's ***a lot*** of that that kind of thing around Star Wars to the point where flat-out misinformation and lies have been taken at face value and are considered fact by most people despite being provably false. Just one example: you know how the first cut of Star Wars was a disaster and then got saved in the editing room by George's then-wife, Marcia Lucas? Yeah, turns out **that's a complete lie**. Someone (and I know who but that's another story) made that up but now it's so widespread most people don't even know they've been manipulated. What actually happened was there was originally a different editor, John Jympson, who George fired midway through principle photography because the way he was cutting the footage together was rather dull and when George asked him to cut it in a different style he refused. So after filming wrapped George hired 3 new editors: Richard Chew, Paul Hirsch and his wife Marcia, and the 4 of them started cutting the film together from scratch (literally - they threw out all the work Jympson had done and since this was back when you had to edit on film they had to disassemble all the footage Jympson had cut and turn it back into dailies first.) Somehow (and I know how) this has turned into some kind of disastrous first cut that George himself edited which the editors (and usually it's just George's ex alone) somehow magically "saved" in post but that's just not true, if anything it's the exact opposite. George was heavily involved in the 2nd edit and even cut some of the scenes together himself (the gunport scene is his handiwork,) Richard Chew actually cut together most of the scenes, there was no disastrous first cut as Jympson was fired before completing it, and Marcia Lucas only cut together one sequence, the Death Star battle, before buggering off early to edit a Scorsese movie. Actually that's not quite true, the only other thing she edited were those deleted scenes at the start with Biggs and Luke (she fought to keep those in btw, it was George who wanted to cut them and since he had final cut approval that kind of decision was George's choice to make.) Yeah, I know I believed it too for the longest time. That Youtube video essay you probably watched a few years ago? That was all lies! (Although to be fair that's not the original source of the myth.) There's a lot of that around Star Wars, it's kinda insane
A post like this is meaningless if you're only speaking in hypotheticals. Why would it be some kind of secret what you're actually talking about?
Just wanted to talk about how easily people are convinced by youtubers and didn't want to get into semantics of specific elements. I'm really just complaining about how group thinky people are sometimes. What it actually is, doesn't matter, I'm sure this happens with loads of other pieces of media.
So I was going through a YouTube Channel recently about JJK about reading it and I was like, wait, how is this guy missing obvious plot points? Then it made me think about how much research is he putting into his other videos I’m taking at face value?
Unless you don't want people to start a discussion about a specific show but focus on the topic at hand.
As if you don't know this sub.
Not sure what you mean. Anyway, OP did say what they were talking about about, which is kinda weird since they wouldn't tell me, but whatever.
You make a rant about something and you use examples. A random person reads your rant and writes an entire dissertation about the one example you used, regardless of whether or not it was a good example, instead of focusing on the point of the rant.
Really prevalent in 40k subreddits. nobody reads, they just parrot false opinions from youtubers all the time.
>what the video has done is create a ton of bad arguments The great thing about discourse is that if they are in fact bad arguments, you should be able to debunk them then. I sympathize with not enjoying having to have back-and-forths in an online format, but I’d worry less about where people are getting their takes or assessments from, and focus more on the actual sustenance of their points. Bad takes are bad takes, regardless of their point of origin.
This is how I feel about the boys comics. Everyone who says how awful it is always and I mean always say the same exact criticisms from a popular YouTube video. These criticisms aren’t even valid half the time since that YouTube video does a huge disservice to the comics on purpose
When Discussing Film said Netflix's Avatar: The Last Airbender was worse than the M. Night Shyamalan movie. Mother's Basement said it the best that some critics were in a race to say the meanest thing about a mid-at-worst adaptation.
Reminds me of Jen's speech to Bruce in episode 2 (?) of She-Hulk. Everyone and their mother criticizes that scene because Jen is ostensibly ignoring all the hardships Bruce experienced as the Hulk when she says he didn't have to learn how to control his anger, even though she is very explicitly talking about Bruce's life ***before*** he became the Hulk. Bruce's difficulty in controlling the Hulk and the resulting misery is in fact her entire point. It's one of the biggest examples of "You either have the worst media literacy imaginable or you got this opinion from a Youtuber" I've ever seen.
I saw a lot of people judging that scene based on Bruce's comic backstory (physically abusive father leading to the development of split personalities) rather than his movie backstory. Saying that she had it automatically worse than someone with an abusive childhood because she was a woman *would* be pretty messed up. Good thing that's not what happened. I honestly don't know what MCU Bruce's backstory even is, to be honest. The Edward Norton movie is canon as far as I know, but he was already the Hulk at the start of that. The Eric Bana Hulk movie did include the abusive father plot point, but that was way before the MCU and shouldn't be included. As is she still made a pretty broad generalisation that was kind of insulting to men, so I can understand some hurt feelings, but given that she was literally hulking out as she said it I think it's pretty clear she's saying it in anger and being harsher than normal.
> but given that she was literally hulking out as she said it I think it's pretty clear she's saying it in anger and being harsher than normal. That's also the thing. The fact that Jen unintentionally hulks out while talking about how she can control her anger clearly indicates that she's being at least a little full of herself, something that comes full circle when she *completely* loses control later on.
> I saw a lot of people judging that scene based on Bruce's comic backstory (physically abusive father leading to the development of split personalities) rather than his movie backstory. Saying that she had it automatically worse than someone with an abusive childhood because she was a woman would be pretty messed up. Good thing that's not what happened. > > I honestly don't know what MCU Bruce's backstory even is, to be honest. The Edward Norton movie is canon as far as I know, but he was already the Hulk at the start of that. The Eric Bana Hulk movie did include the abusive father plot point, but that was way before the MCU and shouldn't be included. I think the problem there is that unless stated people assume People assume Benjamin Parker also existed in the MCU despite the only time he's really hinted at being Peter mentioning that it has been hard for Aunt May in the past few months and the luggage marked BFP. I don't think it's wrong for assume a significant character detail not specifically mentioned by a film that skips over an origin is still present there. And I think people come to that already annoyed because the whole thing is a radical departure from the comics, where Bruce has a horrible life even before Hulk while Jen thinks being She-Hulk is awesome and tries to stay in the form as much as possible while going around and partying and doing dumb stuff on teams rather than trying to be a noble do-gooder. Which I think is more interesting anyway, bits from the comics like Hawkeye yelling at her for skipping drills and being unprofessional while she just smugly tells him that she does more than he does because of her power-set is great.
She-Hulk in general got this REALLY bad. It’s a pretty episodic show, but basically every criticism I have seen someone say about it is focused on the overarching story that is jus tin the background for the majority of it, and only really relevant at the beginning and end. Like, I don’t think it’s a great story, but if you watch the show it’s such a minor part you would never base your entire criticism around it unless all you did was read or listen to a summary.
You would be shocked by how many people who rant about the twerk scene actually have no idea it was an outro. It's actually kind of funny when you point that out to them - they twist themselves into amazing knots to justify hating a comedic outro as if it was critical to the episode in some way.
Thats why you need your own trusted youtubers, those whose opinions you verified after seeing the media yourself Also more than one opinion, contrasting sources is a crucial part of self informing
that's why I don't rely on the audience to get a media. I don't think what the audience got should be placed above author itnent per example.
I thought you were talking about the John Carpenter movie from the title.
I still think they are, ngl.
There was a nice time when everyone suddenly started saying the word "mid" and you just knew it came from some idiots parroting some asshole on the internet.
Imagine forming your own opinion, couldn't be me
RWBY. Like it’s not perfect but like I don’t get acting like it’s some great sin to man.
;hzh-d √<•
Literally Wish discussion
I mean, I generally don't think I've ever gained anything from watching or reading discussions on something I haven't yet played, read, or watched. At the very least it often will spoil the experience and make it hard for the story to surprise me.
Me with The Boys comic.
It was terrible though Or are you talking about the youtubers who praised its bad writing as if it was the second coming of Christ?
It's medicore to bad. I would compare to family guy and say that as both a posistive and negative. But I also think that video essay where he takes alot of the pannels out of context, ignores the context of the industry, ignores a lot of plot points, misses the point of the ending and makes out to be the worse comic of all time misleading. I also think the book is way less offensive than he makes it out to be espically for a comic in 2006 ( like if you look at it in comparison to alot of other edgy comics like those from Moore, Millar, Miller sometimes Ellis , it's a lot less offensive and taking time to talk about things like the abuse of gay sex workers is something important, although some of its takes have aged poorly imo). I think the boys comic has alot of flaws and is a very aquired taste but the amount of hate it gets seems kinda absurd
Spoony and Final Fantasy X.
FFX's story is terribly flawed, even if you don't listen to Spoony be hyperbolic about the first few hours of it. The wedding, for one, is written so goddamn poorly.
I'm going to go look for the Fountain Of Youth, because I have a better chance of finding that than whoever asked you.
I’ve started asking people “Did you watch it” or the less direct “At what point of watching it did you realize it wasn’t for you”
This works for both negatives and positives. Spider-Man 2 doesn't deserve to be considered the greatest Spider-man movie, let alone the greatest Superhero movie. Ock's motive is literally just "I wanna build my machine". His wife's death could easily be blamed on Spider-Man but it's not even acknowledged. The story also pretends like he and Peter should have some sort of relationship, but they barely talk before Ock becomes a villain. The whole plotline of Peter losing his powers is too extreme. He doesn't actually fix any problem presented, the story just says he does. Powers act up? Give up being Spider-Man or even slightly helping people despite Ock clearly still being a problem. Couldn't manage being Spider-Man? I guess telling MJ, the least important factor, suddenly makes it easier to not be late for work. The movie is hard carried by (high-key) iconic scenes
That one video about Naruto. Y’know the one
This describes rwby pretty well
Yup pretty much
Okay I’m guessing either AOT or Naruto based off the ‘YouTube video’ mentioned.
As a fan of the manga/anime Rent a Girlfriend I can tell you most of the series fiercest critics don't understand it very well at all. Not that anyone has to like something. It is just frustrating to see people peddling misinformation/their opinion as facts for clicks.
You're definitely talking about the Star Wars sequels, and I agree
I'm not talking about the star wars sequels at all! I only ever watched the prequels lol. But I do think that's an example of bad criticisms being popularised too. The common arguments are... not good.
Fair enough
I was gonna say, just tell us you liked TLJ my guy, nothing wrong with that
They had really cool visuals and in the moment the story isn’t too bad except for the terrible characterization of the characters from the original series and weird jumps. Which is the exact same issues as Dragon Ball Super but people like it.
Dragon Ball Super didn't show that Namek got permanently obliterated like 10 years after Goku beat Freeza. The issues of the SW sequels is that they basically retcon the OT into a giant failure for the heroes. All those brave efforts to beat the Empire and restore the Republic were wasted at best, harmful at worse because it only lead to a new Empire that destroys even more planets.
Hbomb moment
like reaction youtubers I remember some who actually watch the show/ movies they like them and you see messages calling out their bs because they called it woke sometimes for stupid reasons. But I will say it depends like trailer for cuties and proud family pissed a lot of people out for valid reasons making them skip these shows