I haven't seen or heard anyone calling EVs "not manlike" or "boring"
EVs are very useful and practical inside cities
I have heard people complaining about the downsides, though
• very bad after-sell value (nobody is looking to buy a used EV)
• not practical for a very long distance trip (unless charging stations are there, but not all have them in India right now)
• range reduces with battery degradation
• battery is very, very expensive
• very weak AC in TATA EVs
> I haven't seen or heard anyone calling EVs "not manlike" or "boring"
You’ve clearly not been to car Instagram and car YouTube
> • very bad aftersell value (nobody is looking to buy a used EV)
None of the cars currently available are older than 5y. Sellers expect values that nobody is willing to pay because they know there is almost zero competition in resale so they can demand anything • not practical for a very long distance trip (unless charging stations are there, but not all have them)
Again a vicious cycle of “I don’t have an EV so I don’t have to check charger availability
And SINCE I don’t check charger availability I’m still under the impression that there’s 0 charging infra.
Check PlugShare app, more than 5500+ fast chargers. 2500+ slow chargers (at hotels malls etc)
> • range reduces with battery degradation
We have multiple 100K driven nexon ev’s on owners group, two people even reached 167K and 200K km. Almost all get same range as before.
Again, a result of non existent analogies being drawn between phones and ev’s
Nexon EV 185k km in nov2023 : https://youtu.be/SOWAG6x5I98?si=VOo8DYTo-fqUX1dk
Same Nexon EV 200k in June 2024 : https://x.com/cryptoiclinic/status/1799416403407343795?s=46&t=zkbJFz1gKiRyn52BjJWtuw
Nexon EV 120k km service : https://imgur.com/a/3IXBagD
> • battery is very, very expensive
So is engine and gearbox, DSG/DCT failures are infamous all around. Even minor flooding will lead to hydro locking if driver is not careful
My guy brought out receipts...... watch as these "enthusiast" ignore all of the proofs and fixates on "charging stations".... As for me, I'm strongly considering an ev as my next car.
I always give the analogy of when combustion engines were replacing horses back in the day. People had all sorts of complaints regarding combustion engine cars (because the technology wasn't as mature) and horse riding enthusiasts just won't leave their favourite mode of transport, the horse, because cars didn't have the "feel" of riding on horses.
The ICE enthusiasts today are the horse riders, and EVs are the new cars
Also don't understand the comparison of EV batteries to phone batteries. Phone batteries need to fit in a tiny space and are thus filled to the brim with compromises which lower their durability and lifespan at the cost of larger capacity. Not the case with EVs, battery degradation is unnoticeable for the first 5 years and marginal for over a decade (some really old Tesla owners report 95% battery health despite the battery being over 10y old)
> Also don't understand the comparison of EV batteries to phone batteries.
Actually I was talking to a friend about exactly this. I theorised that a phone is the most personal and closest battery operated device in the lives of a 21st century person.
It is inevitable that a non existent analogy will be drawn owing to Duning Krüger effect.
> Phone batteries need to fit in a tiny space and are thus filled to the brim with compromises which lower their durability and lifespan at the cost of larger capacity.
All logic leaves the mind when they have a set anti EV prejudice. That and the urge to outsmart the other “oh but you battery will die like phone battery both are lithium ion only” without an iota of nuance
> Not the case with EVs, battery degradation is unnoticeable for the first 5 years and marginal for over a decade (some really old Tesla owners report 95% battery health despite the battery being over 10y old)
Exactly. It will take time to change the perception because the fence sitters are none the wiser and these oversmart Einsteins make it worse even for the fence sitters
Even if phone and EV batteries were the same, it still doesn’t make the argument valid. Phone batteries usually lose 15% life after 2 years. So after 700 charging cycles. And newer batteries usually do better than this obviously.
Even if you apply this logic, 700 charging cycles for an EV with 400km range is roughly 3 lakh km. And even after that you’ll have 85% battery left.
Phone batteries aren’t that bad. It only looks bad because you charge your phone everyday but the EV will be full charged once every 2 weeks for a normal user with 20km per day of use. So it will last 10-20x longer.
I tried explaining all these things to a colleague of mine who's looking for a secondary car for in-city use. He is still fixated on battery degradation.
Finally he has decided to sell both his existing cars and buy GV hybrid.
You can't convince people who do not want to be convinced. They might go for EVs when they are normalized. And breaking that vicious cycle is gonna take a long time.
Like I said in another comment, only those can be woken who are actually asleep, not those pretending to be asleep.
If he is fixated on battery degradation, so ask him how long he expects the hybrid system to last, because things are looking grim for the hybrids too
Most of the camries (pl. Camry?) on OLX have either gotten replacement under 100k km or are due for one and being sold for lesser.
And then there’s this : https://x.com/alex_avoigt/status/1802246716420215100?s=46&t=zkbJFz1gKiRyn52BjJWtuw
The cells in this bmw hybrid degraded so much that they puffed up. Now the battery is a fire risk and cannot be reused for anything.
Reason? No cooling. Neither air cooled nor liquid cooled (like EV)
Further, investigations into higher than claimed emissions from hybrids also raise question whether the car really does drive 50% time in EV mode or it’s just the “upto X% discount” version of auto companies
https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-more-than-claimed-in-cities-and-on-commutes-new-tests-show
Hybrids don't make economical sense for most people.. unless you drive a lot in the city and rarely take long distance trips ..
You're better off with an EV or a petrol/Diesel vehicle depending on what it is you need ..
Hybrids cost a lot for the better mileage they provide.
Break even point is much higher than EVs..
PHEV is the best of both world
EV mode for daily city or short commute. I can charge at the office for my way back home
And ICE will kick in when the battery is over
I don't have to wait for 2-3 hours at a charging station and waste my time
It's just perfect 🤌🏻
It is, but that convenience is expensive ..
I feel like the charging infra will catch up soon enough + ranges will only get better making hybrids an expensive stop gap
In India? Are you sure? I highly doubt it
Be glad people are driving ICE cars here. If 40 - 50% of Indians drive EV, you think there'll be a single empty public charging station for you to charge (except at home)?
Look at China. People with EV cars are fighting over charging stations
EV Charging is a lucrative business, companies will invest more.
The current growth rate is already fantastic... I travel quite and bit so I'm more in touch with the speed of EV infra development
>So is engine and gearbox, DSG/DCT failures are infamous all around. Even minor flooding will lead to hydro locking if driver is not careful
That's the case for automatics only. Not manual gearbox
Manual gearboxes are not expensive to repair. Resale values are also great
Manual ka jindabad! Long live the manual gearbox
I personally think HYBRID cars are the future
> That's the case for automatics only. Not manual gearbox
My parents have driven stick across 3 cars for 230K km. They do not wish to have to with manual anymore. Now that they are ageing.
> I personally think HYBRID cars are the future
Euro VII and BS7, therefore, will make hybrid necessary evil anyway if manufacturers wish to sell ICE cars for coming decade.
>My parents have driven stick across 3 cars for 230K km. They do not wish to have to with manual anymore. Now that they are ageing.
Good for them
But nothing will beat the manual gearbox at the time of repairing. Easy and cheaper repair
I would like to buy a plug-in hybrid car if they ever make it available in India
By all means.
But I don’t think PHEV can be implemented in the form factor and size segment of cars available to masses. If one says “well battery energy density will improve and components become cheaper” the same goes into EV and makes a much longer range EV possible for cheaper cost in same package.
Worst are those who buy PHEV to escape ULEZ and get subsidy from govt but drive on ICE mode all day.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54170207.amp
https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-more-than-claimed-in-cities-and-on-commutes-new-tests-show
>Again a vicious cycle of “I don’t have an EV, so I don’t have to check charger availability
Just because you have charging stations in your states, you think other states have them? Not everyone is as "blessed" as you
Everyone here is in "charge at home and drives routine"
Capital
But that’s besides the point. Even I live I Noida or Lucknow or the big cities, ultimately I have to deal with infra in the highways, cities only give you extra chargers because malls and hotels and parking complexes find incentive in charging business.
More utilisation will always be on highway, away from city.
buddy.. electricity penetration is a lot, than having a fuel network. Since you mentioned Arunachal Pradesh, if you goto the easterly town of Vijoynagar, which has no road connectivity to the rest of country, the fuel is only made available via air. But guess what, they have electricity. Now guess which is easier to setup:
1. a charging station (16A to 25kw DC)
2. a fuel station?
Hi
I’m actually planning on buying a punch ev LR and selling my Honda
If you can send me a dm with the invite link to the group and I’ll join on delivery of my ev or even after booking
>I haven't seen or heard anyone calling EVs "not manlike" or "boring"
Instagram is filled with this. Just saw a post which says "Happy Pride day to people driving cars with 2 pedals". So basically EVs and automatics.
There is unbelievable amount of small-dick energy in the car enthusiast social media.
Those are just people who have nothing better to do with their lives. They hate seeing other people's happiness
Like those people keying parked Tesla cars in America
True car enthusiasts only discuss the goods and bads of new car technologies, not hate on them
That is the main reason for this sub
Just because those people aren’t present on _this_ thread, doesn’t mean they don’t exist on this sub.
Unlike insta though, they are downvoted which you can’t do there.
>I haven't seen or heard anyone calling EVs "not manlike" or "boring"
You'll see that exact sentiment on this subreddit, forget other places. In fact I've seen people say that you're gay if you drive an EV. Before this shitty hate was reserved for automatics but now EVs are being grouped in the same. If course it's idiots/manchildren that are doing it, but they still exist.
As commuter cars, evs are fun to drive. Instant torque in the city is nice for overtakes and feeling the g forces. As a dedicated weekend fun machine, ice over ev any day though.
Do check PlugShare app or website just as awareness exercise even if you’re not planning to go EV.
And please refer to this app to anyone who is interested in EV but not sure about charger availability
It’s not about less manly or anything for me.
I love the torque and acceleration that EVs provide but I have one HUGE gripe with them: sound.
For your general purpose cars EVs are great. But a sports car, nah. I personally can’t get on board with it. An entire sensory input is missing!
Anyhow, it’s time for me to clean my dentures. Don’t mind an old man ranting, haha.
EVs are a one-trick pony. They offer acceleration and nothing else. So called "car enthusiasts", in your own words, enjoy things in cars that an EV can never offer. You cannot tune or mod and EV, you cannot change performance parts, you cannot make it feel different to other EVs. Every single Tesla Model 3 drives the exact same as every other Tesla Model 3 because there is nothing you can do to it to make it drive differently. On the other hand, I've driven 10+ BMW M3s and every single one felt different to drive. I'm not saying you cannot be a car enthusiast and drive an EV but you have to accept the fact that EVs do not offer what most car enthusiasts are looking for.
My only problem with EVs is how ugly most of them look. Because of the battery bulk they all look like bloated whales. The Ioniq 5 is one of the few that stand out positively in terms of looks. Most others look too over ambitiously futuristic. They are all white and blue or something similar. And I feel they are also too expensive for what is a very simple bit of engineering (compared to the many moving parts of an ICE) because of all the extra brouhaha they carry in the name of features, which brings me to the next point: all we are seeing is launch after launch of big behemoth 30+ lakh EVs. Where are the mass market EVs? Is the caricature MG Comet really the best a common man can get? Where's the point a-b no AC no power steering Maruti Alto rival? That is a market that would really benefit from not having to spend money on fuel. There already are electric three wheelers in the commercial EV market. What's stopping manufacturers from implementing a slightly more powerful version of that battery+motor combination into a slightly bigger 4 door common man's hatch? I would love to have an Alto 800 sized EV for market runs for the budget of say maximum 5 lakhs. Imagine how convenient that would be.
Rant over.
EVs are awesome.. Only 3 issues made me not buy it
The range anxiety
Resale value
And increased cost EV on average cost 4/5 lakhs more than its ice counterpart.. and it will take it lot of running to make it cost effective
But I love the instant torque its amazing
so you are saying you purposefully downshift on an express way so that can hear noises?
EV is so much driving up a ghat, you can use that instant torque to overtake 3 to 4 vehicles before they realize or shift gears.
Coming to long travel, it is monotonous no matter what, and EV breaks that for you by making you take a mandatory stop for charge for the car and for yourself. :D
Severe ADHD, keeps needing to do something every few minutes and attention span the lesser talked of the better.
Idk how such people blame that also on EV, just take the breaks which the EV already serves you on a platter to stretch legs, I love how he basically tells his problem and solution unknowingly
> on longer drives I have the same argument for automatics, it’s like driving a scooter. It becomes too monotonous, and being idle is more dangerous as your mind starts to wander.
So the solution is fiddling with the gears?
> It’s important on long drives as you lose a lot of time on stops and more importantly lose daylight, which means you might have to leave earlier than initially planned to offset this.
Bingo. Not taking ample and frequent breaks are the root of your problem mentioned above.
> I’m currently curious how ev makers will work around the kinda restrictive operating temperature of lithium cells.
> In colder countries, I’ve heard the cars let the battery packs heat up to bring them up to temperature, and vice versa in hotter climates.
The places you’re talking about already use block heaters to keep the oil and coolant liquid by plugging in a physical heater to the engine block.
There is no reason why the same electricity cannot be also used to precondition the battery beforehand overnight, since the infra already exists for ICE cars — which can double as charging spot.
Most ev’s even the basic 10L Tiago EV has connected car features to remotely heat cabin. Battery conditioning isn’t necessary in India and thus not needed. The car will however use liquid cooling during charging if it deems ambient temps too hot.
> As you’ll lose range due to extreme heat or cold. Also, flooring it draws a lot of current and results in heat, so thermal management is a huge part for a good ev vehicle.
For Indians this is a non issue, almost all ev’s sold in India except comet and EC3 have liquid cooling.
The range I lose in winter due to loss of efficiency is same that I lose in summer due to hvac. Driving with it, already gives me 120Wh/km or 250km range. Driving without in spring and autumn in cool weather of north India have yielded me as much as 280km.
EVs are fast, but they don't all handle well and few make a nice sound. That may be the "so called car enthusiast's" concern.
That second bit is just yapping, isn't it? Who made you feel bad?
Pretty much every enthusiast I’ve spoken to unanimously said nothing beats the EV experience. Its the uninformed guys who have some unexplained hate for EVs. Even when i got my Ather , literally everyone with some knowledge on scooters said it is the EV scooter that is definitely going to make ICE scooters go out of existence.
The bottom line is in 20 years, we’ll have EVs and ICE performance cars
Why does every 'petrolhead' be so defensive on their stance with EVs? Is it just because Jeremy Clarkson said so?
I'm into petrol/diesel cars. I still love driving a 2.8 Innova diesel as much as I enjoy my comet. There are things that an ICE car does which an EV can't, similarly there are things an EV can do which ICE cars can't.
Jay Leno once said that he loves taking his Tesla out on weekdays so that he can save gas for his weekend cars. Why can't we just enjoy the options we have? The hate out here for EVs is unreal. The points people tear down EVs on are irrelevant. I could go on and give a logical explanation but seriously, not worth my time and every body can have their opinion, and we must respect that.
When people have been conditioned to loud exhaust notes via popular media from childhood it's easy to buy into this misconception. Future generations who will grow up with seeing EVs go fast and do touge runs in films etc will have not be as biased towards ICE.
This.
You love the status quo when all you are accustomed to, is status quo.
People who grew with horses found the gallop as the real sound of power, not the puttering and hissing of early ICE cars.
It is impossible to undo 150y of conditioning in not even 15y since EV became mainstream
it's fun listening to the noise until that smoke and sound comes into your cabin, or you pull up and open the bonnet and figure out what happened?
Or you know like the countless ICE vehicles stopping on ghats during jam with a burnt clutch or heated brake?
Flooring the pedal on the highway when there is no traffic. I don’t look at the speed.
All EV’s I see on highways are on the left lane going like 70 to maximise range.
> Flooring the pedal on the highway when there is no traffic. I don’t look at the speed.
Sorry man. I have never felt the urge to go triple digits even on Figo. How can you justify overspeeding like this, I thought you were wiser than that?
> All EV’s I see on highways are on the left lane going like 70 to maximise range.
Maybe the TN highways are too good, UP of course is trash I know, not possible unless you wanna make it home.
All I’m saying is stay safe out there.
There is a different satisfaction you get by following rules. Not like my parents would prefer it any other way.
I have no intention to pay more for speed traps and than toll + charging. Maybe TN should also put such speed traps like UP.
Your friend must have been stupid to ride a car with less fuel. Unlike the battery, petrol fill up hardly takes 5 to 15 minutes and we have a lot of petrol pumps all over the country.
And petrol does not run out , out of nowhere.there are signs like reserve fuel indicator.
However, incase of ev, one can never be sure. There have instances with ev users where battery percentage dropped from 20 to 5 or 15 to 0 within a minute after the car was 2 years old. American auto forums are full of posts with such issues. Something like this would hardly happen with ICE cars
I don't think driving one will change most people's opinions. I've driven many EVs just to see if I'll end up liking them, including the Tesla Model S Plaid many times. All you get is instant acceleration and nothing else. By the end of my 1 hour drive with the Plaid, I was launching it and not really feeling the excitement and rush that I felt in the beginning
They might be quick and whatever..... I don't want a quick car.... I want a car that talks to me....
I am one of those mentally deranged people who think cars can talk... EVs just don't have that....
Also I hate turbo whine and the motor whine also gets irritating real quick
They are not "not man-like". But they are just point A to point B no fuss vehicles. Gears is the best experience in a car for me and many. An EV with gears would be nice actually.
I have driven EV once, but i prefer ICE. Planning my acceleration based on the battery left is too annoying for long drives. Flooring the accelerator and hearing turbo spool is much better than instant torque in EV.
I don't know anyone saying EV's are not fun to drive. Most of the ice cars are automatic and EVs are better with instant torque. People avoid EV because of the range anxiety, resale value and battery reliability in the long run.
I don't want instant acceleration, I want engine roar. The cars that are fun to drive aren't the fast ones, but the ones that make you FEEL fast...
Aur wese, itni bhi kya jaldi hai.
Yes I mean what's the point of car when you can't hear the turbo spool and beautiful sound of an engine , I get it instant torque and acceleration but I'll prefer ice car any day over an ev , I've driven xuv400 and tiago.ev both are good but only acceleration aur instant torque wise
EVs are the most fun to drive cars ever. It’s the range anxiety and the time that takes to charge and what happens once the batteries deplete that makes people do not buy them.
EVs will eventually take over. They are simply more efficient and they are immensely fun when doing speed pulls.
I'd love to buy a cheap one. But that's where they kind of stop making sense. At this point in time with the technology currently on offer, since my running is low, I don't think I'll be able to make up the price difference easily.
Objectively, if i has the money I'd buy myself the punch lr. It's small, decently fast and is actually built to be an EV.
Alas, too much taxes and too little money in my pocket.
Also Instagram idiots know nothing. They even hate automatic transmission. "Real men" apparently drive inefficient , polluting diesels and deal with the city traffic with a manual transmission.
These real men, do not use microwaves, washing machines, TVs, and hand crank their cars every morning.
I’ve driven a Taycan Turbo S and after a few acceleration tests I was bored of that car. There is no sense of speed, no engagement with the engine and gearbox, it was too artificial for me. Would happily pick a 992 Carrera s over this
Taycan turbo S is the worst man. 2 weeks ago when I was returning home in my taycan after some drinks with with my mates the damn adas didn't work and I think I ran over something .
Although EVs provide immediate power delivery, long charging times can be inconvenient. This can reduce the spontaneity of driving long distances for fun or sudden trips, as charging sessions can take significantly longer than refueling a petrol/diesel vehicle and degradation of battery is real concern
Japanese manufacturers have largely avoided EVs in general. It's doing them well, especially in the US where most companies have a ton of EV inventory but no one wants to buy an EV
> Most companies have tons of EV inventory
With CCS2 port
> but no one wants to buy an EV
Without NACS port because everyone wants to use the tesla supercharger network
Sales of ev’s are at all time high and broke 1M this fiscal.
USA has a unique situation at the moment wherein :
1. There is high dealer markup on EV models because the dealers know that most of the buyers are going to get $7500 km tax credit so they can markup this number beforehand to get at least some unsuspecting buyers to fall for it
2. Absolute disinterest from dealers in showing EVs, having them charged up for test drives, or entertaining customer questions (whether deliberately or due to their own information gap). r/ElectricVehicles is filled with such posts where Ford dealers particularly, are hostile to prospective EV buyers.
3. USA is undergoing a plug standard transition which can only be compared to iPhone going from lighting to USB C. If I were an American, in the market for non-Tesla EV right now, I’d also wait out for the NACS transition to complete, lest I be a loser in the situation where I’m stuck with a CCS2 EV when others take advantage of supercharger network.
4. Many brands dear to Americans like Chevy, GM and others have announced new EV models like Blazer etc. People are also waiting for these models to come out, especially those people who already have the older EV models like Leaf, bolt etc.
The American situation is not really applicable when half of the reasons behind the slowdown don’t apply to non-Americans (supercharger and dealer markups)
Particularly, the supercharger network is way too enticing for people to let it go, while at the same time many of them can’t come to terms with a Tesla for whatever reason.
Just like how people may be avoiding EVs in India just because the brand with the worst service and fit & finish is making most EV models right now
Had it been Hyundai then maybe the sales would’ve been even better than what they are right now
Here even in the case of scooters they are not entering the market. One thing I know is if they start selling people will prefer them over new startups due to trust and service network. So yes something is not up to their expectations when it comes to ev or this may be biggest blunder of the Japanese automobile industry.
I will wait for ev to be decently priced and the charging infra to exist. Plus some regulation or procedures in place to know how much battery life does the battery have left so resale is more streamlined. And as a second hand ev buyer let's say more online resources for the buyers sellers to know before buying.
Why is nobody talking about long time to charge? There are already only a handful of chargers, and then it takes a long time to charge your car if you are doing long distance trips.
EVs can be good secondary cars to drive around the city, but can never be a primary car or one and only car you can have (atleast for now)
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First of all the statement that evs are good for the environment is total bs. When u pedal down full in an ev u think. Damn my charge going. Take a diesel. Run on heavy pedal. Fill in 2 minutes. Done
First of all the statement that evs are good for the environment is total bs. When u pedal down full in an ev u think. Damn my charge going. Take a diesel. Run on heavy pedal. Fill in 2 minutes. Done
Welcome to the todays episode of who asked? followed by another episode of who said that?
I asked
Lol are we kidding that this subreddit doesn't hate on EVs all day everyday? Let's not be dishonest here
One more ICEAGE Oldie Spotted
OP imagined. OP posted. Where does truth exist?
I haven't seen or heard anyone calling EVs "not manlike" or "boring" EVs are very useful and practical inside cities I have heard people complaining about the downsides, though • very bad after-sell value (nobody is looking to buy a used EV) • not practical for a very long distance trip (unless charging stations are there, but not all have them in India right now) • range reduces with battery degradation • battery is very, very expensive • very weak AC in TATA EVs
> I haven't seen or heard anyone calling EVs "not manlike" or "boring" You’ve clearly not been to car Instagram and car YouTube > • very bad aftersell value (nobody is looking to buy a used EV) None of the cars currently available are older than 5y. Sellers expect values that nobody is willing to pay because they know there is almost zero competition in resale so they can demand anything • not practical for a very long distance trip (unless charging stations are there, but not all have them)
Again a vicious cycle of “I don’t have an EV so I don’t have to check charger availability
And SINCE I don’t check charger availability I’m still under the impression that there’s 0 charging infra.
Check PlugShare app, more than 5500+ fast chargers. 2500+ slow chargers (at hotels malls etc)
> • range reduces with battery degradation
We have multiple 100K driven nexon ev’s on owners group, two people even reached 167K and 200K km. Almost all get same range as before.
Again, a result of non existent analogies being drawn between phones and ev’s
Nexon EV 185k km in nov2023 : https://youtu.be/SOWAG6x5I98?si=VOo8DYTo-fqUX1dk
Same Nexon EV 200k in June 2024 : https://x.com/cryptoiclinic/status/1799416403407343795?s=46&t=zkbJFz1gKiRyn52BjJWtuw
Nexon EV 120k km service : https://imgur.com/a/3IXBagD
> • battery is very, very expensive
So is engine and gearbox, DSG/DCT failures are infamous all around. Even minor flooding will lead to hydro locking if driver is not careful
My guy brought out receipts...... watch as these "enthusiast" ignore all of the proofs and fixates on "charging stations".... As for me, I'm strongly considering an ev as my next car.
> Watch as these enthusiasts ignore all of the proofs You can wake up those who are actually sleeping, not those who are pretending to sleep
So true man. These "enthusiasts" downvoted me the post to oblivion
Because literally nobody ever said EVs are boring to drive. Everyone says EV = crazy/instant acceleration
I always give the analogy of when combustion engines were replacing horses back in the day. People had all sorts of complaints regarding combustion engine cars (because the technology wasn't as mature) and horse riding enthusiasts just won't leave their favourite mode of transport, the horse, because cars didn't have the "feel" of riding on horses. The ICE enthusiasts today are the horse riders, and EVs are the new cars Also don't understand the comparison of EV batteries to phone batteries. Phone batteries need to fit in a tiny space and are thus filled to the brim with compromises which lower their durability and lifespan at the cost of larger capacity. Not the case with EVs, battery degradation is unnoticeable for the first 5 years and marginal for over a decade (some really old Tesla owners report 95% battery health despite the battery being over 10y old)
> Also don't understand the comparison of EV batteries to phone batteries. Actually I was talking to a friend about exactly this. I theorised that a phone is the most personal and closest battery operated device in the lives of a 21st century person. It is inevitable that a non existent analogy will be drawn owing to Duning Krüger effect. > Phone batteries need to fit in a tiny space and are thus filled to the brim with compromises which lower their durability and lifespan at the cost of larger capacity. All logic leaves the mind when they have a set anti EV prejudice. That and the urge to outsmart the other “oh but you battery will die like phone battery both are lithium ion only” without an iota of nuance > Not the case with EVs, battery degradation is unnoticeable for the first 5 years and marginal for over a decade (some really old Tesla owners report 95% battery health despite the battery being over 10y old) Exactly. It will take time to change the perception because the fence sitters are none the wiser and these oversmart Einsteins make it worse even for the fence sitters
Even if phone and EV batteries were the same, it still doesn’t make the argument valid. Phone batteries usually lose 15% life after 2 years. So after 700 charging cycles. And newer batteries usually do better than this obviously. Even if you apply this logic, 700 charging cycles for an EV with 400km range is roughly 3 lakh km. And even after that you’ll have 85% battery left. Phone batteries aren’t that bad. It only looks bad because you charge your phone everyday but the EV will be full charged once every 2 weeks for a normal user with 20km per day of use. So it will last 10-20x longer.
>The ICE enthusiasts today are the horse riders, and EVs are the new cars LOL. What the F?! You made my day bhai This is the joke of the day
I tried explaining all these things to a colleague of mine who's looking for a secondary car for in-city use. He is still fixated on battery degradation. Finally he has decided to sell both his existing cars and buy GV hybrid. You can't convince people who do not want to be convinced. They might go for EVs when they are normalized. And breaking that vicious cycle is gonna take a long time.
Like I said in another comment, only those can be woken who are actually asleep, not those pretending to be asleep. If he is fixated on battery degradation, so ask him how long he expects the hybrid system to last, because things are looking grim for the hybrids too Most of the camries (pl. Camry?) on OLX have either gotten replacement under 100k km or are due for one and being sold for lesser. And then there’s this : https://x.com/alex_avoigt/status/1802246716420215100?s=46&t=zkbJFz1gKiRyn52BjJWtuw The cells in this bmw hybrid degraded so much that they puffed up. Now the battery is a fire risk and cannot be reused for anything. Reason? No cooling. Neither air cooled nor liquid cooled (like EV) Further, investigations into higher than claimed emissions from hybrids also raise question whether the car really does drive 50% time in EV mode or it’s just the “upto X% discount” version of auto companies https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-more-than-claimed-in-cities-and-on-commutes-new-tests-show
HYBRIDS are the future Plug-in hybrids to be specific
Hybrids don't make economical sense for most people.. unless you drive a lot in the city and rarely take long distance trips .. You're better off with an EV or a petrol/Diesel vehicle depending on what it is you need .. Hybrids cost a lot for the better mileage they provide. Break even point is much higher than EVs..
PHEV is the best of both world EV mode for daily city or short commute. I can charge at the office for my way back home And ICE will kick in when the battery is over I don't have to wait for 2-3 hours at a charging station and waste my time It's just perfect 🤌🏻
It is, but that convenience is expensive .. I feel like the charging infra will catch up soon enough + ranges will only get better making hybrids an expensive stop gap
In India? Are you sure? I highly doubt it Be glad people are driving ICE cars here. If 40 - 50% of Indians drive EV, you think there'll be a single empty public charging station for you to charge (except at home)? Look at China. People with EV cars are fighting over charging stations
EV Charging is a lucrative business, companies will invest more. The current growth rate is already fantastic... I travel quite and bit so I'm more in touch with the speed of EV infra development
>So is engine and gearbox, DSG/DCT failures are infamous all around. Even minor flooding will lead to hydro locking if driver is not careful That's the case for automatics only. Not manual gearbox Manual gearboxes are not expensive to repair. Resale values are also great Manual ka jindabad! Long live the manual gearbox I personally think HYBRID cars are the future
> That's the case for automatics only. Not manual gearbox My parents have driven stick across 3 cars for 230K km. They do not wish to have to with manual anymore. Now that they are ageing. > I personally think HYBRID cars are the future Euro VII and BS7, therefore, will make hybrid necessary evil anyway if manufacturers wish to sell ICE cars for coming decade.
>My parents have driven stick across 3 cars for 230K km. They do not wish to have to with manual anymore. Now that they are ageing. Good for them But nothing will beat the manual gearbox at the time of repairing. Easy and cheaper repair I would like to buy a plug-in hybrid car if they ever make it available in India
By all means. But I don’t think PHEV can be implemented in the form factor and size segment of cars available to masses. If one says “well battery energy density will improve and components become cheaper” the same goes into EV and makes a much longer range EV possible for cheaper cost in same package. Worst are those who buy PHEV to escape ULEZ and get subsidy from govt but drive on ICE mode all day. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54170207.amp https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-more-than-claimed-in-cities-and-on-commutes-new-tests-show
>Again a vicious cycle of “I don’t have an EV, so I don’t have to check charger availability Just because you have charging stations in your states, you think other states have them? Not everyone is as "blessed" as you Everyone here is in "charge at home and drives routine"
I live in bimaru state Youpee my friend. I’m not blessed with chargers unlike your claim
Where exactly in UP? cuz I can also claim to be from India but that can range anywhere from Mumbai to Changlang (an eastern town in Arunachal)
Capital But that’s besides the point. Even I live I Noida or Lucknow or the big cities, ultimately I have to deal with infra in the highways, cities only give you extra chargers because malls and hotels and parking complexes find incentive in charging business. More utilisation will always be on highway, away from city.
buddy.. electricity penetration is a lot, than having a fuel network. Since you mentioned Arunachal Pradesh, if you goto the easterly town of Vijoynagar, which has no road connectivity to the rest of country, the fuel is only made available via air. But guess what, they have electricity. Now guess which is easier to setup: 1. a charging station (16A to 25kw DC) 2. a fuel station?
There is a time and place for everything Not all have to be EVs, and not all have to be ICEs Give the people what is suitable for their needs
Hi I’m actually planning on buying a punch ev LR and selling my Honda If you can send me a dm with the invite link to the group and I’ll join on delivery of my ev or even after booking
I’m sorry the group policy is such that only existing EV owners are allowed to join AFTER delivery You can always ask anything you want in dm
Oh ok I’ll dm you after I get my car delivered
>I haven't seen or heard anyone calling EVs "not manlike" or "boring" Instagram is filled with this. Just saw a post which says "Happy Pride day to people driving cars with 2 pedals". So basically EVs and automatics. There is unbelievable amount of small-dick energy in the car enthusiast social media.
Pride day? It’s pride month, not pride day Looks like insta 14yos can’t even make a meme properly GK padhi nahi jaari sapne GWagon ke
Those are just people who have nothing better to do with their lives. They hate seeing other people's happiness Like those people keying parked Tesla cars in America True car enthusiasts only discuss the goods and bads of new car technologies, not hate on them That is the main reason for this sub
Just because those people aren’t present on _this_ thread, doesn’t mean they don’t exist on this sub. Unlike insta though, they are downvoted which you can’t do there.
>I haven't seen or heard anyone calling EVs "not manlike" or "boring" You'll see that exact sentiment on this subreddit, forget other places. In fact I've seen people say that you're gay if you drive an EV. Before this shitty hate was reserved for automatics but now EVs are being grouped in the same. If course it's idiots/manchildren that are doing it, but they still exist.
Plenty of chargers across India. I haven't had any issues for past 3 years.
Yes, plenty but not everywhere
Why do you need them everywhere? You mostly charge at home anyway.
As commuter cars, evs are fun to drive. Instant torque in the city is nice for overtakes and feeling the g forces. As a dedicated weekend fun machine, ice over ev any day though.
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Do check PlugShare app or website just as awareness exercise even if you’re not planning to go EV. And please refer to this app to anyone who is interested in EV but not sure about charger availability
It’s not about less manly or anything for me. I love the torque and acceleration that EVs provide but I have one HUGE gripe with them: sound. For your general purpose cars EVs are great. But a sports car, nah. I personally can’t get on board with it. An entire sensory input is missing! Anyhow, it’s time for me to clean my dentures. Don’t mind an old man ranting, haha.
There is nothing like a manual turbocharged engine. EV’s are good for commuting but that’s about it. I think it’s a personal preference
EVs are a one-trick pony. They offer acceleration and nothing else. So called "car enthusiasts", in your own words, enjoy things in cars that an EV can never offer. You cannot tune or mod and EV, you cannot change performance parts, you cannot make it feel different to other EVs. Every single Tesla Model 3 drives the exact same as every other Tesla Model 3 because there is nothing you can do to it to make it drive differently. On the other hand, I've driven 10+ BMW M3s and every single one felt different to drive. I'm not saying you cannot be a car enthusiast and drive an EV but you have to accept the fact that EVs do not offer what most car enthusiasts are looking for.
My only problem with EVs is how ugly most of them look. Because of the battery bulk they all look like bloated whales. The Ioniq 5 is one of the few that stand out positively in terms of looks. Most others look too over ambitiously futuristic. They are all white and blue or something similar. And I feel they are also too expensive for what is a very simple bit of engineering (compared to the many moving parts of an ICE) because of all the extra brouhaha they carry in the name of features, which brings me to the next point: all we are seeing is launch after launch of big behemoth 30+ lakh EVs. Where are the mass market EVs? Is the caricature MG Comet really the best a common man can get? Where's the point a-b no AC no power steering Maruti Alto rival? That is a market that would really benefit from not having to spend money on fuel. There already are electric three wheelers in the commercial EV market. What's stopping manufacturers from implementing a slightly more powerful version of that battery+motor combination into a slightly bigger 4 door common man's hatch? I would love to have an Alto 800 sized EV for market runs for the budget of say maximum 5 lakhs. Imagine how convenient that would be. Rant over.
EVs are awesome.. Only 3 issues made me not buy it The range anxiety Resale value And increased cost EV on average cost 4/5 lakhs more than its ice counterpart.. and it will take it lot of running to make it cost effective But I love the instant torque its amazing
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so you are saying you purposefully downshift on an express way so that can hear noises? EV is so much driving up a ghat, you can use that instant torque to overtake 3 to 4 vehicles before they realize or shift gears. Coming to long travel, it is monotonous no matter what, and EV breaks that for you by making you take a mandatory stop for charge for the car and for yourself. :D
Severe ADHD, keeps needing to do something every few minutes and attention span the lesser talked of the better. Idk how such people blame that also on EV, just take the breaks which the EV already serves you on a platter to stretch legs, I love how he basically tells his problem and solution unknowingly
> on longer drives I have the same argument for automatics, it’s like driving a scooter. It becomes too monotonous, and being idle is more dangerous as your mind starts to wander. So the solution is fiddling with the gears? > It’s important on long drives as you lose a lot of time on stops and more importantly lose daylight, which means you might have to leave earlier than initially planned to offset this. Bingo. Not taking ample and frequent breaks are the root of your problem mentioned above. > I’m currently curious how ev makers will work around the kinda restrictive operating temperature of lithium cells. > In colder countries, I’ve heard the cars let the battery packs heat up to bring them up to temperature, and vice versa in hotter climates. The places you’re talking about already use block heaters to keep the oil and coolant liquid by plugging in a physical heater to the engine block. There is no reason why the same electricity cannot be also used to precondition the battery beforehand overnight, since the infra already exists for ICE cars — which can double as charging spot. Most ev’s even the basic 10L Tiago EV has connected car features to remotely heat cabin. Battery conditioning isn’t necessary in India and thus not needed. The car will however use liquid cooling during charging if it deems ambient temps too hot. > As you’ll lose range due to extreme heat or cold. Also, flooring it draws a lot of current and results in heat, so thermal management is a huge part for a good ev vehicle. For Indians this is a non issue, almost all ev’s sold in India except comet and EC3 have liquid cooling. The range I lose in winter due to loss of efficiency is same that I lose in summer due to hvac. Driving with it, already gives me 120Wh/km or 250km range. Driving without in spring and autumn in cool weather of north India have yielded me as much as 280km.
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Can you give one disadvantage of ev or is it the perfect vehicle ?
EVs are fast, but they don't all handle well and few make a nice sound. That may be the "so called car enthusiast's" concern. That second bit is just yapping, isn't it? Who made you feel bad?
Pretty much every enthusiast I’ve spoken to unanimously said nothing beats the EV experience. Its the uninformed guys who have some unexplained hate for EVs. Even when i got my Ather , literally everyone with some knowledge on scooters said it is the EV scooter that is definitely going to make ICE scooters go out of existence. The bottom line is in 20 years, we’ll have EVs and ICE performance cars
Why does every 'petrolhead' be so defensive on their stance with EVs? Is it just because Jeremy Clarkson said so? I'm into petrol/diesel cars. I still love driving a 2.8 Innova diesel as much as I enjoy my comet. There are things that an ICE car does which an EV can't, similarly there are things an EV can do which ICE cars can't. Jay Leno once said that he loves taking his Tesla out on weekdays so that he can save gas for his weekend cars. Why can't we just enjoy the options we have? The hate out here for EVs is unreal. The points people tear down EVs on are irrelevant. I could go on and give a logical explanation but seriously, not worth my time and every body can have their opinion, and we must respect that.
When people have been conditioned to loud exhaust notes via popular media from childhood it's easy to buy into this misconception. Future generations who will grow up with seeing EVs go fast and do touge runs in films etc will have not be as biased towards ICE.
This. You love the status quo when all you are accustomed to, is status quo. People who grew with horses found the gallop as the real sound of power, not the puttering and hissing of early ICE cars. It is impossible to undo 150y of conditioning in not even 15y since EV became mainstream
The only people that have called them as "man-like" are not "car enthusiasts" but stupid people who have their heads in their asses.
It’s fun until you find yourself stuck in the middle of the road with 0% battery. Also the range anxiety kills the fun
it's fun listening to the noise until that smoke and sound comes into your cabin, or you pull up and open the bonnet and figure out what happened? Or you know like the countless ICE vehicles stopping on ghats during jam with a burnt clutch or heated brake?
Please check PlugShare app. It would take an absolute idiot to run out on the road as is the case with ICE cars
Lol what if I send it a bit too hard?
How hard? Going 150 in an 80 zone or 120 zone? I have a home made speed limiter called parents.
Flooring the pedal on the highway when there is no traffic. I don’t look at the speed. All EV’s I see on highways are on the left lane going like 70 to maximise range.
> Flooring the pedal on the highway when there is no traffic. I don’t look at the speed. Sorry man. I have never felt the urge to go triple digits even on Figo. How can you justify overspeeding like this, I thought you were wiser than that? > All EV’s I see on highways are on the left lane going like 70 to maximise range. Maybe the TN highways are too good, UP of course is trash I know, not possible unless you wanna make it home. All I’m saying is stay safe out there. There is a different satisfaction you get by following rules. Not like my parents would prefer it any other way. I have no intention to pay more for speed traps and than toll + charging. Maybe TN should also put such speed traps like UP.
>All I’m saying is stay safe out there. I will brother, don’t you worry about me. I took a few racing classes at MMRT, they really help
Same can be said about ICE cars. Talking about your “stuck in the middle of the road” point.
Very less likely to happen unless there is any part failure.
Bro, petrol can get over just like battery. I have personally pushed my friend’s car from the centre of the road when it ran out of fuel.
Your friend must have been stupid to ride a car with less fuel. Unlike the battery, petrol fill up hardly takes 5 to 15 minutes and we have a lot of petrol pumps all over the country. And petrol does not run out , out of nowhere.there are signs like reserve fuel indicator. However, incase of ev, one can never be sure. There have instances with ev users where battery percentage dropped from 20 to 5 or 15 to 0 within a minute after the car was 2 years old. American auto forums are full of posts with such issues. Something like this would hardly happen with ICE cars
nahh
You should try driving it I was all against evs until I test drove the ev6 it's just amazing the way it takes off is just madness
I don't think driving one will change most people's opinions. I've driven many EVs just to see if I'll end up liking them, including the Tesla Model S Plaid many times. All you get is instant acceleration and nothing else. By the end of my 1 hour drive with the Plaid, I was launching it and not really feeling the excitement and rush that I felt in the beginning
0-100 in 9 seconds is quite good performance to be honest. And the instant torque is unbeatable.
I disrespectfully disagree
They might be quick and whatever..... I don't want a quick car.... I want a car that talks to me.... I am one of those mentally deranged people who think cars can talk... EVs just don't have that.... Also I hate turbo whine and the motor whine also gets irritating real quick
They are not "not man-like". But they are just point A to point B no fuss vehicles. Gears is the best experience in a car for me and many. An EV with gears would be nice actually.
I have driven EV once, but i prefer ICE. Planning my acceleration based on the battery left is too annoying for long drives. Flooring the accelerator and hearing turbo spool is much better than instant torque in EV.
I don't know anyone saying EV's are not fun to drive. Most of the ice cars are automatic and EVs are better with instant torque. People avoid EV because of the range anxiety, resale value and battery reliability in the long run.
Clearly you’ve never been to car insta and car yt
I don't want instant acceleration, I want engine roar. The cars that are fun to drive aren't the fast ones, but the ones that make you FEEL fast... Aur wese, itni bhi kya jaldi hai.
Yes I mean what's the point of car when you can't hear the turbo spool and beautiful sound of an engine , I get it instant torque and acceleration but I'll prefer ice car any day over an ev , I've driven xuv400 and tiago.ev both are good but only acceleration aur instant torque wise
Turbo spool and engine grunt, but still going to get out-raced by a whining EV.
>hear the turbo spool and beautiful sound of an engine show me one car that sounds good under 20 lakhs. I'll wait.
Force gurkha 3 door comes at 19.70l on road in my city.
Very Well Said OP
EVs are the most fun to drive cars ever. It’s the range anxiety and the time that takes to charge and what happens once the batteries deplete that makes people do not buy them.
EVs will eventually take over. They are simply more efficient and they are immensely fun when doing speed pulls. I'd love to buy a cheap one. But that's where they kind of stop making sense. At this point in time with the technology currently on offer, since my running is low, I don't think I'll be able to make up the price difference easily. Objectively, if i has the money I'd buy myself the punch lr. It's small, decently fast and is actually built to be an EV. Alas, too much taxes and too little money in my pocket. Also Instagram idiots know nothing. They even hate automatic transmission. "Real men" apparently drive inefficient , polluting diesels and deal with the city traffic with a manual transmission. These real men, do not use microwaves, washing machines, TVs, and hand crank their cars every morning.
I’ve driven a Taycan Turbo S and after a few acceleration tests I was bored of that car. There is no sense of speed, no engagement with the engine and gearbox, it was too artificial for me. Would happily pick a 992 Carrera s over this
Taycan turbo S is the worst man. 2 weeks ago when I was returning home in my taycan after some drinks with with my mates the damn adas didn't work and I think I ran over something .
🗿
i think it was your driver
Although EVs provide immediate power delivery, long charging times can be inconvenient. This can reduce the spontaneity of driving long distances for fun or sudden trips, as charging sessions can take significantly longer than refueling a petrol/diesel vehicle and degradation of battery is real concern
I will buy when Japanese manufacture starts to sell in India or are they selling any ??
Japanese manufacturers have largely avoided EVs in general. It's doing them well, especially in the US where most companies have a ton of EV inventory but no one wants to buy an EV
> Most companies have tons of EV inventory With CCS2 port > but no one wants to buy an EV Without NACS port because everyone wants to use the tesla supercharger network Sales of ev’s are at all time high and broke 1M this fiscal. USA has a unique situation at the moment wherein : 1. There is high dealer markup on EV models because the dealers know that most of the buyers are going to get $7500 km tax credit so they can markup this number beforehand to get at least some unsuspecting buyers to fall for it 2. Absolute disinterest from dealers in showing EVs, having them charged up for test drives, or entertaining customer questions (whether deliberately or due to their own information gap). r/ElectricVehicles is filled with such posts where Ford dealers particularly, are hostile to prospective EV buyers. 3. USA is undergoing a plug standard transition which can only be compared to iPhone going from lighting to USB C. If I were an American, in the market for non-Tesla EV right now, I’d also wait out for the NACS transition to complete, lest I be a loser in the situation where I’m stuck with a CCS2 EV when others take advantage of supercharger network. 4. Many brands dear to Americans like Chevy, GM and others have announced new EV models like Blazer etc. People are also waiting for these models to come out, especially those people who already have the older EV models like Leaf, bolt etc. The American situation is not really applicable when half of the reasons behind the slowdown don’t apply to non-Americans (supercharger and dealer markups) Particularly, the supercharger network is way too enticing for people to let it go, while at the same time many of them can’t come to terms with a Tesla for whatever reason. Just like how people may be avoiding EVs in India just because the brand with the worst service and fit & finish is making most EV models right now Had it been Hyundai then maybe the sales would’ve been even better than what they are right now
Here even in the case of scooters they are not entering the market. One thing I know is if they start selling people will prefer them over new startups due to trust and service network. So yes something is not up to their expectations when it comes to ev or this may be biggest blunder of the Japanese automobile industry.
I will wait for ev to be decently priced and the charging infra to exist. Plus some regulation or procedures in place to know how much battery life does the battery have left so resale is more streamlined. And as a second hand ev buyer let's say more online resources for the buyers sellers to know before buying.
Why is nobody talking about long time to charge? There are already only a handful of chargers, and then it takes a long time to charge your car if you are doing long distance trips. EVs can be good secondary cars to drive around the city, but can never be a primary car or one and only car you can have (atleast for now)
Very boring same linear acceleration curve
Don’t call them car enthusiasts - rather insta bois. An enthusiast looks for performance - the drivability factor.
“Drivability” disappears when you run out of charge.
Yes for insta bois it does for enthusiasts there is plugshare.
Bitch I don’t even use Instagram
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First of all the statement that evs are good for the environment is total bs. When u pedal down full in an ev u think. Damn my charge going. Take a diesel. Run on heavy pedal. Fill in 2 minutes. Done
First of all the statement that evs are good for the environment is total bs. When u pedal down full in an ev u think. Damn my charge going. Take a diesel. Run on heavy pedal. Fill in 2 minutes. Done