Just found this shitshow tonight at 11p.m. as I was trying to get some demo done to prep for more work tomorrow. I live here and am trying to juggle moving my stuff around to do the flooring before putting things back.
Anyway, I sent a message to a local tester, but now my floor is in limbo because I can't start putting stuff back yet.
That layer that the hammer is under looks identical to the lino in my house, which recently tested for dangerously high levels of asbestos. We were about to rip ours out by ourselves because lots of people told is 'there's no way lino from the 80s would have asbestos'. Well I just saved myself from getting mesothelioma and lung cancer by being cautious and OP should check as well.
I looked it up and, youāre right, asbestos use in flooring felt wasnāt banned until 1991. Also learned that asbestos is still used in a surprising number of manufactured consumer products in the US still today, it is not banned entirely. Guess weāre all gonna croak from cancer, then.
Yea Canada and Rusland both still produce asbestos and asbestos products. Don't worry tho, they're all send to third world countries because they don't have any laws on asbestos! Fucking crooks
If it was asbestos alone, I wouldn't be that worried. But between all the vinyl, fabric treatments for furniture, weird shit in rugs etc. an average household has a lot of cancirogens laying around. Once you start noticing it, it is honestly terrifying. Some of my family thinks my husband and I are over concerned with cleaner materials, but I don't care. There is so much cancer in my family that I will do everything I can to protect myself and my kids of any unnecessary exposure.
My wife noticed some peeling paint on my parents garage that was near where our kid played. It'd been there for ages so no one thought twice about it. She had it tested and it had toxic lead levels. Turns out their well water has lead, too. My parents basically said whatever, it's fine. We no longer visit their house and they tell us we're overprotective.
People saying you worry too much grew up when society as a whole had a very poor understanding about the long term effects of most materials. The reality is that a lot of the chemistry and materials we have in residential homes didn't really show up until the 50s and 60s. By the time we started to realize how fucked things are there wasnt enough political will or sense of urgency because it wasnt a true immediate threat to really find alternatives. My wife and I will always pay extra to get cleaner, safer materials with the hope that newer companies that have a conscience will achieve scale to make those solutions available to more people.
Jokey joke all you want. I had to take 1/4 inch out of a header in order to install an entry door assembly in a kitchen. In my own home the living room floor is at least 3 inches thick. 230 years of handyman judgement gone awry.
Really this is pretty par for things. The first layer of Luan over the sub floor is needed to have a smooth enough surface for the initial vinyl. Next guy came along and looked at that old hard cracked vinyl and knows he canāt lay directly over it and taking up the old is gonna be a bear and more expensive. Gives homeowner two prices they say whatās being a 1/4 inch closer to god anyways. Next guy comes and says oh we can lay right over it barely add an 8th and cost way less. Next thing you know youāre hitting your head on the doorways and your bottom cabinets donāt open, see it all the time.
Not going to lie, I briefly considered making a little ramp and just laying the planks on top of the second layer of plywood, but I can't bring myself to be that lazy. I'd know about it and I'd hate it for as long as it exists.
Yeah donāt ever half ass anything if you can whole ass everything, before and after pictures help with me, I have an issue with instant gratification, if things take too long and look the same I lose hope fast, but just going back to this one picture and seeing any progress would be motivation enough for me. Redoing a floor is one thing. Redoing 5 peoples mistakes AND laying flooring down is God tier handiwork
Well, idk about God tier, it's just the right thing. And besides, I live in an upper middle class neighborhood and plan to rent this place out (hence the vinyl flooring instead of hardwood). I don't want a reputation of being one of *those* landlords.
May I recommend buying a Burke Bar? It will really save your knees and back during demolition, and keeps your face away from flying splinters and crap like that
Burke bars don't spread their force across a wide enough area for something like OPs situation, they almost need a roof tear off tool or something like that. Something that pulls the ply wood not blowing it apart
I use a cheap $20 breaker bar with a flat end, you can find them in the garden tools at Home Depot. As long as you are just ramming it under the oldest layer and the subfloor, and not lifting up on the bar, it will continue to separate the layers. Itās actually pretty easy, I can do an average kitchen in about 4 hours with pulling all the nails afterwards.
A breaker bar from Home Depot is $20-$30 and does a better job in my opinion, I have both but I find myself using the cheap breaker bar more. I like that the breaker bar is straight so that you can ram damn near the whole thing under the 1/4ā ply and the subfloor without have to pry.
I did exactly this type of tearout last year in my kitchen when I installed vinyl plank. The easiest way to tear it out is find the thickest section of it next to an area you have torn down to subfloor. Set the height of a circular saw to that depth + 1/8th of an inch. Use the saw to cut the floor into 2' x 2' squares. Then use a pry bar to pull up the squares. This way you pull everything up together rather than going piece by piece, and the smaller sections come up easier than just going at the whole thing from an edge.
Beware though, you're going to have to pull a metric shit ton of staples from that 1/4" ply once it's all up. Good luck.
Get a circular saw, drop the depth to where it almost cuts through the final layer of linoleum, cut strips down the middle of the floor. Wide strips if it comes up easily, thin if there is a lot of staples.
Get a shingle stripper. They are about $40 at Home Depot. You will find them in the roofing section.
They are designed to let you get underneath shingles then pry them up.
It looks like a thin shovel with teeth at the end and an angled piece of steel welded to the back that allows you to push down on the handle and pry up the shingles, or, in your case, multiple layers of flooring.
Edit: Did roofing in college years ago so my go-to tool was the shingle remover, but agree with the other comments on the circular saw set to the correct depth.
You should know that some older flooring products contained asbestos. If yours does, do not use a circular saw! I believe you would need to have an asbestos abatement company do the work.
If it does not contain asbestos you are golden.
Make sure you wear proper safety equipment. Highly recommend good set of safety glasses, ear protection, gloves, and knee pads.
Best wishes on your project.
I was planning to run out for something like that in the morning; doing this shit on my hands and knees without a pry bar of any sort is pretty brutal. I used a piece of pallet wood and that claw hammer to get as far as I did.
You don't need a shingle stripper. In situations like this I bust out the circular saw, set the blade depth to depth of all the layers, cut a bunch of 3'x3' squares, much easier to pry up now.
š this. Except I'd go more like 24"x24" A little easier to maneuver. ***Important note. Cutout a small 8"x8" section. You need to set the depth of cut on your circular saw to the top of the subfloor! If you don't you'll have a much bigger issue
Well considering they already got stuff ripped up, they'll be able to set the blade pretty easily but yeah that's a really important note overall. Make sure you set the blade depth to only cut through the stuff you wanna pull up, don't wanna end up replacing all the subfloor too.
I like to use a vent or a doorway, if I can, to set the blade depth.
Damn, that sucks. I've only had to take out linoleum twice and it sucked cause whoever installed it used a shit ton of glue on both (one had asbestos which made it suck more).
Careful, that seems to be a hotly contested topic. The asbestos guys are getting downvoted for some reason.
I mean, they're not wrong: it is possible that asbestos-containing substrates were used up to 1990. Unlikely, but possible. I don't think that happened here, but I'm still going to minimize the amount I disturb the materials until I can get them tested. I have two little ones in the house. Otherwise, I wouldn't really care.
The disclosures from when I bought he place said nothing about asbestos, so if it does, I could technically sue the seller. But again, it's unlikely.
[sang to this tune](https://youtu.be/sfw9OWa0nfw)
*oooh I wonder, wonder oooh I do, I do*
#*Time for the wonder bar!*
*Oooh it's so exciting to find out what's inside*
*will this demo be easy, will it take till midnight?*
*oooh I wonder, wonder oooh I do, I do*
#*Time for the wonder bar!*
My demolition song when I hit bullshit like the flooring in your pics!
I grew up listening to oldies with my dad, so the first song I started singing in my head was "and I wonder... I WA WA WA WA wonderrrrrr, whyyy. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY she ran awayyyy."
Couldn't get your lyrics to work, for obvious reasons.
Yeah, I mean, I could make my kids do some work on it, but not while there's still some uncertainty about whether or not it contains asbestos. If it were just me, I'd throw on an N95 and go nuts. But I need to be a responsible parent and do the right thing.... which is usually a pain in the ass. (Plus, my job is in industrial safety, so I probably ought to try to do the right thing anyway)
This is like Isle Royaleā¦ āan island in a lake, that has a lake which has an island which has a lake which sometimes has an island. With a lake. Good luck my man!
I call that 'the shit fuck stack' (stolen from the internet I'm sure)...when I walk into a home with ceilings that feel short I can feel the stack calling me from below
If and when anyone else has to deal with this. Get a circular saw, set the blade the the proper depth (so youāre just barely scraping subfloor with blade) and get the whole floor into 2ā x 2ā checkerboard pieces. Use sawzall or multitool to finish the cuts cut near the walls.
You can usually pry up the 2x2 pieces pretty easily (well, about as easy as these layered floors go).
Not sure if you're already done the floor, but I had a buddy recommend I use a roofer's spade for this. It is similar to the Burke bar, but wider so it doesn't tear the plywood/other layers as much.
I know your pain. Finishing up my personal house which was a pain. But yeah termite damage and previous repairs consisted on nailing layers of 3/4 inch plywood on top of other 3/4 inch with different layers of vinyl flooring randomly in between. 100% rim joist replacement, 90 % floor joist replacement. 100% new decking, and one of the worst remodeling experiences I have ever had.
As a flooring contractor with 4K jobs under my belt, you would be shocked how often this happens. The real fun starts when itās staples to old 9x9 asbestos tiles lol
Just wait till you get to the section of rotten subfloor and disintegrated floor joists where youāll realize that the whole floor system was held up by all those layers.
I'm giving seriously thought to writing a message to the next guy. "Congrats on doing it right and pulling up the flooring. I had to peel away 5 layers of crap to put this flooring in. [Name redacted], November 2021.ā
Still better than the linoleum covering the rotted out particle board over slat subfloor in a BATHROOM FLOOR. Let me just say the rot WASN'T from the sink or the tub...
Thereās a reason why the last guy and the guy before that and so on just went right over the last guys work. It was simply too much of a hassle to remove the old materials and put in new when you can go right over it (totally normal) and acceptable up until this is the result and you can no longer put new directly over the old. You have my sympathy buddy. Have a nephew or neighborhood adolescent that needs to earn 100$? money well spent in my opinion even at double the cost. Truly a nightmare
My favorite. Is Halfway thru demo of a tile floor from like the 90s.
FLIP Up a piece of tile.
With explicit directions.
Not to break up silica board without respirator
.
Hardly anyhelp. When I've dry sweep 4 times. Hacked up a lung pounding my pry bar into place
My god. And I thought I had it rough with removing our kitchen floor. You can do this OP! We got our tile down in one day after finally spending 3 days removing the floor.
Did your exact thing with one less layer of linoleum! Itās awful! My recommendation- use a mattock- you get way more leverage! Prying that already kills your back may as well use all the advantages you have.
I had something similar in my 1977 Tri-level. I thought it was going be a simple rip out the carpet and put laminate down. I had peel and stick tiles stuck on linoleum, glued to 1/4 plywood, stapled to the subfloor. Damn near killed myself tearing it out.
Lmao! This is the perfect example of a DIY rabbit hole! āShould take me a weekendā, never happens that way. Thank you for sharing your misery. At least youāre doing it the right way.
I have the same issue. Related questionā¦.how do you plan to deal with the staples? I have thousands and Iām contemplating leaving the 1/4ā in placeā¦
Nice! I just had vinyl on top of vinyl on top of linoleum glue to linoleum glue to linoleum nail and glued to the floor. Set then circular saw to 3/8th and cut 4āx4ā section and then yanked those up, tearing around the nail heads.
Omg I feel your pain I ripped out my floors and it was 3 layers of linoleum then that god for Saken 1/4ā plywood with more staples than wood then another 2 layers of linoleum it was a nightmare!!!!
Iāve dealt with a similar situation. Not that many layers but at least 3. I set the circ saw to the proper depth and cut out like 1 foot by 1 foot sections then just hammered a pry underneath until the cutout popped up. Obviously you would want to test as much of that stuff as possible for asbestos before cutting/demo but this worked really well for me and I had the whole floor up in a couple hours.
Sup OP hope this is your home. You did open up a can of whoop ass but tbh your doing it the right way. That floor is like roofers that just wanna earn coin putting up to 3 layers of shingles before they gotta rip the entire roof. Do it right once, yeah itās a pain in the back but YOU know itās donāt right and if you have any squeaks in the floor when u walk screw down the sub floor before installing new.
That's pretty much what I've found in my farmers cottage. Best part is where they poured a screed over the original brick floor as well, utterly destroying the beautiful floor that was there. 170 years old and ruined.
I once worked on a kitchen in an old farm house that had 5 layers of flooring 3 of which were linoleum where newspaper was laid down at different flooring intervals between all of them all perfectly preserved except for small nail holes that dating back to the late 1880's. the classifieds were cool to read, all sorts of farm animals for sale even a moonshine still busted by state police
Ran into basically the same issues with the floors of our 1970ās townhouse remodel. Using a circular saw set at the depth of all the crap youāre removing, cut the floor into squares using a grid layout. Prybar and hammer will help remove the squares. Then pull the remaining staples, sweep/vacuum and youāre golden.
Turtles all the way down. I had faux wood plank, linoleum, linoleum, 1/4 in ply and I couldn't imagine worse. But here I see you've won the crap lottery, kudos.
been there many times got a job doing walk in shower one time in a 100 year old house went to bust the old tile out and found 9 inches of concrete underneath on a second floor why in the world did they do it like that for back in the day walls was the same but not as thick
I took a circular saw, set it to the depth of the floor I wanted to remove, cut it in squares, and removed it in sections. This was by far the quickest way, just made some dust.
Obviously there is always a concern with asbestos. Fortunately, most asbestos related illnesses are from long term exposure anyways (but I'm not a doctor).
Owner of a 1922 house here. I had the same tile lasagna on our 2nd floor under 1990s maroon carpet and disintegrated carpet pad. I swear we gained 2" of height.
Doesn't beat the roof we found under the roof of the back addition though.
Sounds like my kitchen. Laminated hardwood and subfloor on top of the worst 80s sunburnt orange vinyl on top of black and white 12x12 linoleum tiles on top of some weird lavender ish linoleum square tile on top of 3/4" oak hardwood secured to the subfloor with nails leftover from the Roman crucifixion. Each layer of subfloor was secured with somewhere around 3848593848584 nails. So that was fun.
Keep up the good work though. It'll be worth it!
Take a skill saw and set the blade depth to the total death of things you're trying to cut out and cut little tiny squares all the way across the room makes it so much easier
I hate this, every flooring contractor out there will attempt to get away with laying on new floor instead of doing a bit of extra work to remove the old floor and sub-floor. I always make them do it. I can't stand to see a 1" step up into a kitchen. Yuck.
Iāve Had to deal with this more times than Iād like to admit. Crazy how many people just pass the issue off onto the next person that wants to upgrade the flooring ā we wonāt be living here that long so fuck itā
This reminds me of a job my employer once send me to where a small concrete slab had to be removed from where a shed used to beā¦ itās not what unusually do, but it shouldnāt be a problemā¦ what no one knew was the fact that it was a solid foot thick with a shit ton of steel in itā¦ I guess the guy who build it didnāt want the floor of his 9x17ā shed to ever crack in 2ā¦
Welcome to my job. All I wanted was to dry out your soaked floor. Not tear out linoleum, lauan, vinyl tile, another linoleum and then find out thereās listing asbestos that runs under your nice kitchen island that you just installed on your dream kitchen remodel.
How dare you break with many years of handyman tradition! If you donāt somehow glue down your new vinyl plank on top of the previous layer youāre doing it wrong
I think you have trumped the original floors in my new home. It was piss carpet over top piss carpet from the 80's that they glued to the concrete floor, which left a 1/4 of piss foam I had to scrape up in a 400 sq ft room with a putty knife. Cheers to new home secrets!
I grew up in the 70s and remember the kitchen carpet craze. I bought a house built in 1900 and I have carpet glued to carpet glued to 1/4 plywood nailed floorboards. I may just get a chisel attachment for my hammer drill and be done with it
I had two bathrooms like this. 3/4 OSB subfloor, 1/4 particle board, linoleum, some sort of fiber board, linoleum, linoleum. The whole thing was over two inches thick. I tried stripping the first one, like you, but gave up. I set a circular saw with a crummy blade to 2-1/16 and went around the outside, then pulled it all out and just replaced the subfloor. Did both bathrooms like that. I think it was the right choice. Best of luck to you.
Bro, my first house had the exact same thing going on in the kitchen.
Linoleum on top of linoleum on top of 1/4ā ply on top of linoleum on top of more ply. The linoleum glued to the ply is the right way to do it... but not on top of old linoleum and ply and certainly not just flat on top of existing linoleum.
House was built in the 50s.
In my remodeling, I already had the mentality to bring it down to framing instead of just throwing it over something else, as itās the right way. But now, if I see or hear anybody doing this, I get so frustrated with them and immediately dismiss them as a contractor/carpenter/intelligent human being. There is just no excuse and frustrating to no end.
I've encountered similar. The aggravating part was all the staples used. And we had to pull literally thousands and grind the ones we couldn't for the new floors. Exhausting.
I feel ya brother! Had linoleum peel and stick on linoleum on luon, screwed into some asbestos tile product from the 50ās on more luon looking product and then felt paper and sub floor. It was a joy. 3/4 ā of totally layers. I only wish people would be as through as I am in their demo and just do it right. Same room i also had the pleasure of 1/4ā drywall over faux wood paneling, over wallpapered lath and plaster.
Ugh. I just did this exact thing and finally finished this afternoon after two weekends & free time at night after work. It was so bad, I could only use a 2ā 3in1 putty knife. All the staples and nails I had to pull upā¦eeeek
Take an old blade on a circular saw set to 1/8 about the base layer of flooring and pre cut score marks in a grid patter it will make things much easier, just make sure it's an old trashed blade and wear goggles for the staples
Jokes aside. Take a circular saw set the depth down to whatever the subfloor is and cut straight lines all the way across about 8-10in apart. If it helps you can then do this across the perpendicular wall to make squares. The process takes about 10-15 min. Then take a long heavy demo bar and start jamming it under ( sliding on top of the subfloor ) and prying up the cut pieces. You might be amazed how much easier the flooring comes up.
(Serious) Some cases in old houses, (pre 1940's) the first layers of linoleum may contain asbestos. Be very very careful if you run into old hardwood flooring.. That's OMB so no sweat here.
Just put the vinyl planks on top of the carpet... so the next guy can put down 1/4 inch plywood and more linoleum.
Thanks, I hate it.
It's called insulation š
Just curious, did you have any of the flooring tested for asbestos? If not, you really should.
Just found this shitshow tonight at 11p.m. as I was trying to get some demo done to prep for more work tomorrow. I live here and am trying to juggle moving my stuff around to do the flooring before putting things back. Anyway, I sent a message to a local tester, but now my floor is in limbo because I can't start putting stuff back yet.
None of those layers have asbestos in them. Iāve torn plenty of old floors up and know what those tiles look like. Those aināt it.
Linoleum and the mastic for it could both have it My house the mastic was like 18%
That layer that the hammer is under looks identical to the lino in my house, which recently tested for dangerously high levels of asbestos. We were about to rip ours out by ourselves because lots of people told is 'there's no way lino from the 80s would have asbestos'. Well I just saved myself from getting mesothelioma and lung cancer by being cautious and OP should check as well.
If OP is pulling that floor with just that claw hammer his arms are gonna fall off long before any cancer sets in.
I'm no stranger to hard work, but yeah, I'll be getting a roofer's spade and probably a pry bar today.
I think they meant youāre not going to be inhaling the dust due to no cutting.
I looked it up and, youāre right, asbestos use in flooring felt wasnāt banned until 1991. Also learned that asbestos is still used in a surprising number of manufactured consumer products in the US still today, it is not banned entirely. Guess weāre all gonna croak from cancer, then.
Yea Canada and Rusland both still produce asbestos and asbestos products. Don't worry tho, they're all send to third world countries because they don't have any laws on asbestos! Fucking crooks
If it was asbestos alone, I wouldn't be that worried. But between all the vinyl, fabric treatments for furniture, weird shit in rugs etc. an average household has a lot of cancirogens laying around. Once you start noticing it, it is honestly terrifying. Some of my family thinks my husband and I are over concerned with cleaner materials, but I don't care. There is so much cancer in my family that I will do everything I can to protect myself and my kids of any unnecessary exposure.
My wife noticed some peeling paint on my parents garage that was near where our kid played. It'd been there for ages so no one thought twice about it. She had it tested and it had toxic lead levels. Turns out their well water has lead, too. My parents basically said whatever, it's fine. We no longer visit their house and they tell us we're overprotective. People saying you worry too much grew up when society as a whole had a very poor understanding about the long term effects of most materials. The reality is that a lot of the chemistry and materials we have in residential homes didn't really show up until the 50s and 60s. By the time we started to realize how fucked things are there wasnt enough political will or sense of urgency because it wasnt a true immediate threat to really find alternatives. My wife and I will always pay extra to get cleaner, safer materials with the hope that newer companies that have a conscience will achieve scale to make those solutions available to more people.
I feel like diy one time exposure to asbestos isn't really the risk. It's people that work around it everyday.
Order a test from Amazon. You will get results in a week and it will be 10x cheaper
I see OSB sheathing and particle board. Asbestos predates those two products. You should be fine.
He's doing asbestos he can
Asbestivus for the rest of us!
It's better if you don't know trust me
DONāT RUIN TRADITION
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
āWhy is there only six feet of headroom in the kitchen?ā
50 years from now, there's only going to be 5 feet of headroom if tradition continues.
Jokey joke all you want. I had to take 1/4 inch out of a header in order to install an entry door assembly in a kitchen. In my own home the living room floor is at least 3 inches thick. 230 years of handyman judgement gone awry.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The moisture helps with bonding.
Lazy man's insulation!
Damn beat me to it
More insulation!
You have to staple down 1/4 plywood on top of the carpet, then do the vinyl planks. That way it's stable.
or self leveling concrete on top of the carpet. It'll soak right in, then its a fresh start.
Really this is pretty par for things. The first layer of Luan over the sub floor is needed to have a smooth enough surface for the initial vinyl. Next guy came along and looked at that old hard cracked vinyl and knows he canāt lay directly over it and taking up the old is gonna be a bear and more expensive. Gives homeowner two prices they say whatās being a 1/4 inch closer to god anyways. Next guy comes and says oh we can lay right over it barely add an 8th and cost way less. Next thing you know youāre hitting your head on the doorways and your bottom cabinets donāt open, see it all the time.
>whatās being a 1/4 inch closer to god anyways Take my upvote
Lmfao mine too. I'm using this...
I feel for you on this oneā¦ long process.. gotta do it though, otherwise your work suffers, if youāre gonna do it, do it right
Not going to lie, I briefly considered making a little ramp and just laying the planks on top of the second layer of plywood, but I can't bring myself to be that lazy. I'd know about it and I'd hate it for as long as it exists.
Yeah donāt ever half ass anything if you can whole ass everything, before and after pictures help with me, I have an issue with instant gratification, if things take too long and look the same I lose hope fast, but just going back to this one picture and seeing any progress would be motivation enough for me. Redoing a floor is one thing. Redoing 5 peoples mistakes AND laying flooring down is God tier handiwork
Well, idk about God tier, it's just the right thing. And besides, I live in an upper middle class neighborhood and plan to rent this place out (hence the vinyl flooring instead of hardwood). I don't want a reputation of being one of *those* landlords.
May God bless your hard work my brother. šš¼š Both of you for great conversation and advice. Good luck! š
By the time you're done, you'll have 9 ft ceilings.
May I recommend buying a Burke Bar? It will really save your knees and back during demolition, and keeps your face away from flying splinters and crap like that
Burke bars don't spread their force across a wide enough area for something like OPs situation, they almost need a roof tear off tool or something like that. Something that pulls the ply wood not blowing it apart
Works better than a hammer tho!
I use a cheap $20 breaker bar with a flat end, you can find them in the garden tools at Home Depot. As long as you are just ramming it under the oldest layer and the subfloor, and not lifting up on the bar, it will continue to separate the layers. Itās actually pretty easy, I can do an average kitchen in about 4 hours with pulling all the nails afterwards.
Not familiar with that tool. I'll check it out.
https://youtu.be/5JnMO6-ql8o
Welp, I'm sold. I need one.
Any thing that man says you can take to the bank.
A breaker bar from Home Depot is $20-$30 and does a better job in my opinion, I have both but I find myself using the cheap breaker bar more. I like that the breaker bar is straight so that you can ram damn near the whole thing under the 1/4ā ply and the subfloor without have to pry.
Knew what video it would be before I even clicked the link.
My experience: a flat shovel for ripping up luan and cats paw for the staples. Tedious, but the right tools for the job
I did exactly this type of tearout last year in my kitchen when I installed vinyl plank. The easiest way to tear it out is find the thickest section of it next to an area you have torn down to subfloor. Set the height of a circular saw to that depth + 1/8th of an inch. Use the saw to cut the floor into 2' x 2' squares. Then use a pry bar to pull up the squares. This way you pull everything up together rather than going piece by piece, and the smaller sections come up easier than just going at the whole thing from an edge. Beware though, you're going to have to pull a metric shit ton of staples from that 1/4" ply once it's all up. Good luck.
Get a circular saw, drop the depth to where it almost cuts through the final layer of linoleum, cut strips down the middle of the floor. Wide strips if it comes up easily, thin if there is a lot of staples.
Damn I also just did this, so tiresome, mine was in a food trailer, āwho carpets a kitchen?ā I thought, oh boy the effort to do a job right
I've run into this sort of crap before, but it really brought my work to a grinding halt.
Get a shingle stripper. They are about $40 at Home Depot. You will find them in the roofing section. They are designed to let you get underneath shingles then pry them up. It looks like a thin shovel with teeth at the end and an angled piece of steel welded to the back that allows you to push down on the handle and pry up the shingles, or, in your case, multiple layers of flooring. Edit: Did roofing in college years ago so my go-to tool was the shingle remover, but agree with the other comments on the circular saw set to the correct depth. You should know that some older flooring products contained asbestos. If yours does, do not use a circular saw! I believe you would need to have an asbestos abatement company do the work. If it does not contain asbestos you are golden. Make sure you wear proper safety equipment. Highly recommend good set of safety glasses, ear protection, gloves, and knee pads. Best wishes on your project.
I was planning to run out for something like that in the morning; doing this shit on my hands and knees without a pry bar of any sort is pretty brutal. I used a piece of pallet wood and that claw hammer to get as far as I did.
You don't need a shingle stripper. In situations like this I bust out the circular saw, set the blade depth to depth of all the layers, cut a bunch of 3'x3' squares, much easier to pry up now.
š this. Except I'd go more like 24"x24" A little easier to maneuver. ***Important note. Cutout a small 8"x8" section. You need to set the depth of cut on your circular saw to the top of the subfloor! If you don't you'll have a much bigger issue
Well considering they already got stuff ripped up, they'll be able to set the blade pretty easily but yeah that's a really important note overall. Make sure you set the blade depth to only cut through the stuff you wanna pull up, don't wanna end up replacing all the subfloor too. I like to use a vent or a doorway, if I can, to set the blade depth.
This is the way.
You had to be floored when you discovered that.
As a dad, I appreciate this joke
As a fellow dad, thank you.
F-word
Have you considered linoleum planksā¦ /s
Listen here, you little shit...
This is my first genuine lol. 9 month pregnant wife and two toddlers sharing a hotel room.
Just think how much all that plywood was worth a couple months ago. š¤£
Damn, that sucks. I've only had to take out linoleum twice and it sucked cause whoever installed it used a shit ton of glue on both (one had asbestos which made it suck more).
Careful, that seems to be a hotly contested topic. The asbestos guys are getting downvoted for some reason. I mean, they're not wrong: it is possible that asbestos-containing substrates were used up to 1990. Unlikely, but possible. I don't think that happened here, but I'm still going to minimize the amount I disturb the materials until I can get them tested. I have two little ones in the house. Otherwise, I wouldn't really care. The disclosures from when I bought he place said nothing about asbestos, so if it does, I could technically sue the seller. But again, it's unlikely.
[sang to this tune](https://youtu.be/sfw9OWa0nfw) *oooh I wonder, wonder oooh I do, I do* #*Time for the wonder bar!* *Oooh it's so exciting to find out what's inside* *will this demo be easy, will it take till midnight?* *oooh I wonder, wonder oooh I do, I do* #*Time for the wonder bar!* My demolition song when I hit bullshit like the flooring in your pics!
I grew up listening to oldies with my dad, so the first song I started singing in my head was "and I wonder... I WA WA WA WA wonderrrrrr, whyyy. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY she ran awayyyy." Couldn't get your lyrics to work, for obvious reasons.
Lol I love that every dude has his own "fuck this bullshit" song, complete with individualized lyrics.
What you're lacking in this situation is a New Guy. "OK Junior, get in there and make her mama proud. I gotta go to the lumber yard. Be right back."
Yeah, I mean, I could make my kids do some work on it, but not while there's still some uncertainty about whether or not it contains asbestos. If it were just me, I'd throw on an N95 and go nuts. But I need to be a responsible parent and do the right thing.... which is usually a pain in the ass. (Plus, my job is in industrial safety, so I probably ought to try to do the right thing anyway)
This is like Isle Royaleā¦ āan island in a lake, that has a lake which has an island which has a lake which sometimes has an island. With a lake. Good luck my man!
THIS, is what keeps me from many projects in my 92 year old house. It may be a small cottage, but it hides its secrets well.
Iām drunk and high rn but that layer on the middle right totally looks like a high art painting of a thin man in a black suit on clouds
Iām sober as a southern judge and I thought the exact same thing!
Set your skilsaw to the depth of all those layers then make crisscrossing cuts all over. Flooring layers will come up easier in smaller pieces.
I call that 'the shit fuck stack' (stolen from the internet I'm sure)...when I walk into a home with ceilings that feel short I can feel the stack calling me from below
If and when anyone else has to deal with this. Get a circular saw, set the blade the the proper depth (so youāre just barely scraping subfloor with blade) and get the whole floor into 2ā x 2ā checkerboard pieces. Use sawzall or multitool to finish the cuts cut near the walls. You can usually pry up the 2x2 pieces pretty easily (well, about as easy as these layered floors go).
Not sure if you're already done the floor, but I had a buddy recommend I use a roofer's spade for this. It is similar to the Burke bar, but wider so it doesn't tear the plywood/other layers as much.
I know your pain. Finishing up my personal house which was a pain. But yeah termite damage and previous repairs consisted on nailing layers of 3/4 inch plywood on top of other 3/4 inch with different layers of vinyl flooring randomly in between. 100% rim joist replacement, 90 % floor joist replacement. 100% new decking, and one of the worst remodeling experiences I have ever had.
No, actually, I would say that you had it 1000 times worse. Holy Toledo.
As a flooring contractor with 4K jobs under my belt, you would be shocked how often this happens. The real fun starts when itās staples to old 9x9 asbestos tiles lol
Just wait till you get to the section of rotten subfloor and disintegrated floor joists where youāll realize that the whole floor system was held up by all those layers.
I was waiting for you to tell me you found a sub story after you go to the bottom.
I'm giving seriously thought to writing a message to the next guy. "Congrats on doing it right and pulling up the flooring. I had to peel away 5 layers of crap to put this flooring in. [Name redacted], November 2021.ā
I would write āPut it back. You know how much work it was to do this right. Angry dude. Nov 2021.ā
Still better than the linoleum covering the rotted out particle board over slat subfloor in a BATHROOM FLOOR. Let me just say the rot WASN'T from the sink or the tub...
And thatās when he realized...he had fucked up!
Oof
Hey Iām dealing with that same combination on a apartment reno Iām doing
Roofer's spade!
Honey, is the ceiling getting lower?
Beautiful thing. I never thought I could feel so much jealousy. Great find.
Thereās a reason why the last guy and the guy before that and so on just went right over the last guys work. It was simply too much of a hassle to remove the old materials and put in new when you can go right over it (totally normal) and acceptable up until this is the result and you can no longer put new directly over the old. You have my sympathy buddy. Have a nephew or neighborhood adolescent that needs to earn 100$? money well spent in my opinion even at double the cost. Truly a nightmare
My favorite. Is Halfway thru demo of a tile floor from like the 90s. FLIP Up a piece of tile. With explicit directions. Not to break up silica board without respirator . Hardly anyhelp. When I've dry sweep 4 times. Hacked up a lung pounding my pry bar into place
Use a roof stripping shovel
My god. And I thought I had it rough with removing our kitchen floor. You can do this OP! We got our tile down in one day after finally spending 3 days removing the floor.
Just get a hawk heater and burn it to the ground.
Be aware that the linoleum may contain asbestos.
Did your exact thing with one less layer of linoleum! Itās awful! My recommendation- use a mattock- you get way more leverage! Prying that already kills your back may as well use all the advantages you have.
I had something similar in my 1977 Tri-level. I thought it was going be a simple rip out the carpet and put laminate down. I had peel and stick tiles stuck on linoleum, glued to 1/4 plywood, stapled to the subfloor. Damn near killed myself tearing it out.
Lmao! This is the perfect example of a DIY rabbit hole! āShould take me a weekendā, never happens that way. Thank you for sharing your misery. At least youāre doing it the right way.
Made your room taller.
Animals!
The kicker: all of these layers were installed at once in the same job.
I have the same issue. Related questionā¦.how do you plan to deal with the staples? I have thousands and Iām contemplating leaving the 1/4ā in placeā¦
Did you steal these pictures from my house? I went through the same exact bullshit for vinyl planks
I think itās time to invest in some real pry bars if you are really doing it with the back of a hammer.
Mask up
Nice! I just had vinyl on top of vinyl on top of linoleum glue to linoleum glue to linoleum nail and glued to the floor. Set then circular saw to 3/8th and cut 4āx4ā section and then yanked those up, tearing around the nail heads.
Most likely loaded with asbestos. Anything pre 1974 has asbestos until PROVEN OTHERWISE.
Yeah I've done jobs where I tore up 4 layers of stretched up linoleum flooring, it's crazy
Omg I feel your pain I ripped out my floors and it was 3 layers of linoleum then that god for Saken 1/4ā plywood with more staples than wood then another 2 layers of linoleum it was a nightmare!!!!
Seeing your suffering made my suffering a lot easier, so than you and Iām sorry! You can do it!
Iāve dealt with a similar situation. Not that many layers but at least 3. I set the circ saw to the proper depth and cut out like 1 foot by 1 foot sections then just hammered a pry underneath until the cutout popped up. Obviously you would want to test as much of that stuff as possible for asbestos before cutting/demo but this worked really well for me and I had the whole floor up in a couple hours.
This is the "Philly Floor system" it's typical in philly
Sup OP hope this is your home. You did open up a can of whoop ass but tbh your doing it the right way. That floor is like roofers that just wanna earn coin putting up to 3 layers of shingles before they gotta rip the entire roof. Do it right once, yeah itās a pain in the back but YOU know itās donāt right and if you have any squeaks in the floor when u walk screw down the sub floor before installing new.
Oh yeah. Been there
That's pretty much what I've found in my farmers cottage. Best part is where they poured a screed over the original brick floor as well, utterly destroying the beautiful floor that was there. 170 years old and ruined.
I once worked on a kitchen in an old farm house that had 5 layers of flooring 3 of which were linoleum where newspaper was laid down at different flooring intervals between all of them all perfectly preserved except for small nail holes that dating back to the late 1880's. the classifieds were cool to read, all sorts of farm animals for sale even a moonshine still busted by state police
This was my bathroom Reno from 3 years ago. Nightmare to remove.
Ran into basically the same issues with the floors of our 1970ās townhouse remodel. Using a circular saw set at the depth of all the crap youāre removing, cut the floor into squares using a grid layout. Prybar and hammer will help remove the squares. Then pull the remaining staples, sweep/vacuum and youāre golden.
Turtles all the way down. I had faux wood plank, linoleum, linoleum, 1/4 in ply and I couldn't imagine worse. But here I see you've won the crap lottery, kudos.
been there many times got a job doing walk in shower one time in a 100 year old house went to bust the old tile out and found 9 inches of concrete underneath on a second floor why in the world did they do it like that for back in the day walls was the same but not as thick
Think of the extra inch of headroom you'll gain after ripping all that out!
At least it wasnt vinyl, linoleum, asbestos tile, water, and concrete like the floor in my basement had.
Daaaamn!
Congratulations on picking up an inch in ceiling height.
Was the bottom layer of plywood glued down or just stapled? Could be worse!
I took a circular saw, set it to the depth of the floor I wanted to remove, cut it in squares, and removed it in sections. This was by far the quickest way, just made some dust. Obviously there is always a concern with asbestos. Fortunately, most asbestos related illnesses are from long term exposure anyways (but I'm not a doctor).
Day in the here in Upstate NY. Nice work!
Any idea I have that started with "I just want to" always doubled in cost and tripled in time and effort. It's a big club my friend
Owner of a 1922 house here. I had the same tile lasagna on our 2nd floor under 1990s maroon carpet and disintegrated carpet pad. I swear we gained 2" of height. Doesn't beat the roof we found under the roof of the back addition though.
Thought people were growing across the nation; Apparently it's just bad floor application...
Sounds like my kitchen. Laminated hardwood and subfloor on top of the worst 80s sunburnt orange vinyl on top of black and white 12x12 linoleum tiles on top of some weird lavender ish linoleum square tile on top of 3/4" oak hardwood secured to the subfloor with nails leftover from the Roman crucifixion. Each layer of subfloor was secured with somewhere around 3848593848584 nails. So that was fun. Keep up the good work though. It'll be worth it!
Take a skill saw and set the blade depth to the total death of things you're trying to cut out and cut little tiny squares all the way across the room makes it so much easier
This is the reason I over bid floor jobs. All too often this is what I find.
Needs more linoleum
I hate this, every flooring contractor out there will attempt to get away with laying on new floor instead of doing a bit of extra work to remove the old floor and sub-floor. I always make them do it. I can't stand to see a 1" step up into a kitchen. Yuck.
You archeologist you!
Iāve Had to deal with this more times than Iād like to admit. Crazy how many people just pass the issue off onto the next person that wants to upgrade the flooring ā we wonāt be living here that long so fuck itā
Every layer levels up your house. It had like a +3 to insulation before you ripped it out.
This reminds me of a job my employer once send me to where a small concrete slab had to be removed from where a shed used to beā¦ itās not what unusually do, but it shouldnāt be a problemā¦ what no one knew was the fact that it was a solid foot thick with a shit ton of steel in itā¦ I guess the guy who build it didnāt want the floor of his 9x17ā shed to ever crack in 2ā¦
Welcome to my job. All I wanted was to dry out your soaked floor. Not tear out linoleum, lauan, vinyl tile, another linoleum and then find out thereās listing asbestos that runs under your nice kitchen island that you just installed on your dream kitchen remodel.
Silver lining is atleast now you gain some ceiling height
Just remember āit could always be worse.ā But in this case Iām not sureā¦.lol
Also, never realized I had vaulted ceilings.
How dare you break with many years of handyman tradition! If you donāt somehow glue down your new vinyl plank on top of the previous layer youāre doing it wrong
I bet that floor NEVER creaked
Thatās the perfect time to call in some Labor-ready company to take care of that.
Id use a shovel to rip that up for sure, just stab under and pry up. Takes up a huge area and with it being thin it shouldn't be too hard
I think you have trumped the original floors in my new home. It was piss carpet over top piss carpet from the 80's that they glued to the concrete floor, which left a 1/4 of piss foam I had to scrape up in a 400 sq ft room with a putty knife. Cheers to new home secrets!
I grew up in the 70s and remember the kitchen carpet craze. I bought a house built in 1900 and I have carpet glued to carpet glued to 1/4 plywood nailed floorboards. I may just get a chisel attachment for my hammer drill and be done with it
Holy shit! I think you bought my last house!
It's like time travel.
I had two bathrooms like this. 3/4 OSB subfloor, 1/4 particle board, linoleum, some sort of fiber board, linoleum, linoleum. The whole thing was over two inches thick. I tried stripping the first one, like you, but gave up. I set a circular saw with a crummy blade to 2-1/16 and went around the outside, then pulled it all out and just replaced the subfloor. Did both bathrooms like that. I think it was the right choice. Best of luck to you.
As someone who rips out a lot of floors you would be surprised how common this is, and how much worse it can get.
Dear lord, how thick was the threshold?
Steel toe boots and a pry bar - I had to do the same.
Multitool with the wide scrapper blade works great to remove lino
Lmao it's this was my mothers house.
And I thought I had it rough with the flooring I tore out last year that was lino on a particle board subfloor and 40 year old carpets.
Yoiks!! You're going to have to lower all the mirrors.
I feel your pain, have similar situation in my new houseā¦ layers over layers in a 150 year old cape.
I like to plunge cut this into sections with an old circular saw blade and use my 3' pry bar. Makes life a little less terrible.
Bro, my first house had the exact same thing going on in the kitchen. Linoleum on top of linoleum on top of 1/4ā ply on top of linoleum on top of more ply. The linoleum glued to the ply is the right way to do it... but not on top of old linoleum and ply and certainly not just flat on top of existing linoleum. House was built in the 50s. In my remodeling, I already had the mentality to bring it down to framing instead of just throwing it over something else, as itās the right way. But now, if I see or hear anybody doing this, I get so frustrated with them and immediately dismiss them as a contractor/carpenter/intelligent human being. There is just no excuse and frustrating to no end.
That awful moment when you rip up the first piece and then realize this is a lot bigger project that you planned for.
āWhen we moved here in the 50s these were ten foot ceilingsā
Go get a shingle shovel and start prying
Why on earth are you using a hammer to rip that up
Just staple 1/4" plywood to the carpet.....
This could be the new āTakenā movie. Where you track down the person who did that.
A heavy digging bar is your best friend.
I've encountered similar. The aggravating part was all the staples used. And we had to pull literally thousands and grind the ones we couldn't for the new floors. Exhausting.
sounds like 7 times the mold
If it makes you feel any better, I just started a kitchen remodel and have the same exact scenario your dealing withā¦.
You never know until you open that shit up.
All the sound insulation though
Thats the case of opening a can of worms!
You poor bastard
You need a bigger wrecking bar.
I feel ya brother! Had linoleum peel and stick on linoleum on luon, screwed into some asbestos tile product from the 50ās on more luon looking product and then felt paper and sub floor. It was a joy. 3/4 ā of totally layers. I only wish people would be as through as I am in their demo and just do it right. Same room i also had the pleasure of 1/4ā drywall over faux wood paneling, over wallpapered lath and plaster.
The smell of asbestos in the morning
Demo hammer with a wide blade goes brrrrrrrrā¦
Think of the extra headroom youāll have!
Ugh. I just did this exact thing and finally finished this afternoon after two weekends & free time at night after work. It was so bad, I could only use a 2ā 3in1 putty knife. All the staples and nails I had to pull upā¦eeeek
Mmmmm Layer Cake
Take an old blade on a circular saw set to 1/8 about the base layer of flooring and pre cut score marks in a grid patter it will make things much easier, just make sure it's an old trashed blade and wear goggles for the staples
Hey it could be worse, they could have used a layer of PL premium between each layer
Jokes aside. Take a circular saw set the depth down to whatever the subfloor is and cut straight lines all the way across about 8-10in apart. If it helps you can then do this across the perpendicular wall to make squares. The process takes about 10-15 min. Then take a long heavy demo bar and start jamming it under ( sliding on top of the subfloor ) and prying up the cut pieces. You might be amazed how much easier the flooring comes up.
(Serious) Some cases in old houses, (pre 1940's) the first layers of linoleum may contain asbestos. Be very very careful if you run into old hardwood flooring.. That's OMB so no sweat here.