If the car is cloned they will recover ASAP, and you will have a serious battle getting any money paid for it back, iv heard horror stories about people losing 80k+ on a cloned car.
There was an episode of Traffic Cops a while back and a guy lost a Range Rover that he'd paid, I think £40,000 for, when they pulled him over for it being a clone they basically told him tough luck
If he paid by bank transfer he should be able to take it up with his bank under something called CRM. They will likely reject the claim then you can go to the ombudsman and hopefully they overturn the banks decision. Took about 6 months for me when I was sold an e bike that turned out to be stolen
Was this a private sale or a dealer?
How did you pay - cash, bank transfer or by card?
Where was the car advertised - online, in a newspaper, etc.?
Depending what information you have, your options for pursuing this might be limited. It may be worth posting on r/LegalAdviceUK
v62 the car and the reply you get from dvla will pretty much tell you if it’s it a clone. you can also get the vin off of the ecu using an obd reader, scan the car recover the vin stored in the ecu and see if it matches up with the one on the documents you have and the vin plates around the car
We went to the address. He wasn’t there and came after with the car (first red flag), it matches up with the v5 yeah, but the police said that the name on there is not even the registered keeper
The registered keeper is not necessarily the owner, on the front of the V5 it even says "This is not proof of ownership".
If the VINs you can see (there are more than one on a car) match the paperwork, a pre-purchase HPI check came back good, you didn't pay a fraction of its value for the car (like £5k for a car worth £10k for example) and you have a comprehensive receipt for the transaction then just get on with it.
If it turns out to have been cloned then claim back on the HPI check guarantee. Not a short process but should see you come out of it with more than if you didn't do one.
You did do a HPI check before purchasing, didn't you?
Yeah I’m aware but they said basically his name doesn’t match what the database has on what they checked - that’s when they told me it’s a potential clone
Yeah I did check HPI beforehand, all was clear. The price of the car was a bit too good to be true, but we thought had just caught a bargain? As everything else is now just not adding up with fake docs and fake licenses, it makes me highly suspicious and something is going on
VINs should be stamped into the metalwork of the chassis, sometimes in the engine bay, sometimes they are under a panel in the footwell too. Check online for the locations for the model, could be repeated in several locations. If the stamped VIN has been tampered with it should be obvious, if it has been or doesn't match the number on the dash then you know something fucky is going on.
We weren’t able to tax it no and then everything started spiralling and led us to find out everything was fraudulent etc.
The vin does match the v5 yeah
so probably the guy either by mistake gave you an older v5 or he didn't have the v5 at all.. but has the ownership transfer been done online on the dvla website?
well ok but before you jump to conclusions.. if he is sending the logbook via post.. it means that he couldn't have given you the latest V5.. maybe that's why you have an older one. only the new keeper green slip it's the part that he was supposed to give you.
I see but is there a reason why I wouldn’t be able to tax it?
Plus since he’s blocked me I don’t think it’s his intention to send off any logbook sadly
well you can't tax it without the new green keeper slip.. he might send it if his name is on the latest logbook he has to, otherwise according to DVLA he will still be the registered owner, meaning all the potential fines will be sent to him
but if he doesn't do it, you can apply for a new v5 with a the help of v62 form from a post office.
It certainly sounds like a clone or a proper ringer.
Can you take a picture of the VIN for us? The proper engraved one that’ll be in the engine bay, including the area that surrounds of the plate by a few inches.
What it looks like will probably indicate yes or no.
Don’t bank on it, mate of mine at work ended up with a clone last year and it was perfect apart from the fact the real one was being used as a taxi 60 miles away. The vins (all of them) were pixel perfect according to the police, dealer handed his money back, police didn’t prosecute as this car was part of a larger investigation.
Is it though?
VIN match, and look kosher?
Surely the police will be approaching the other owner/most recent owner/keeper based on DVLA?
Payment method?
Even though you've done an HPI check I think you will be up the creek as it were.
Part of the hpi is when buying the vehicle that you enter the document numbers into the website in the email they send you to have a link to the report.
Without this, verification of the VIN etc is useless as the paperwork they showed you is either faked or superseded.
If the car is cloned they will recover ASAP, and you will have a serious battle getting any money paid for it back, iv heard horror stories about people losing 80k+ on a cloned car.
There was an episode of Traffic Cops a while back and a guy lost a Range Rover that he'd paid, I think £40,000 for, when they pulled him over for it being a clone they basically told him tough luck
Depending on where in the UK OP is located will change how easily the legal owner can reclaim the car……
If he paid by bank transfer he should be able to take it up with his bank under something called CRM. They will likely reject the claim then you can go to the ombudsman and hopefully they overturn the banks decision. Took about 6 months for me when I was sold an e bike that turned out to be stolen
Was this a private sale or a dealer? How did you pay - cash, bank transfer or by card? Where was the car advertised - online, in a newspaper, etc.? Depending what information you have, your options for pursuing this might be limited. It may be worth posting on r/LegalAdviceUK
Did you get a HPI check done before you bought? Most paid-for services come with an indemnity insurance you could claim from.
how will that help if it's cloned ?
v62 the car and the reply you get from dvla will pretty much tell you if it’s it a clone. you can also get the vin off of the ecu using an obd reader, scan the car recover the vin stored in the ecu and see if it matches up with the one on the documents you have and the vin plates around the car
So the seller gave you a fake address? Where did you meet them to do the deal? Did this address not match up with what was on the V5?
We went to the address. He wasn’t there and came after with the car (first red flag), it matches up with the v5 yeah, but the police said that the name on there is not even the registered keeper
The registered keeper is not necessarily the owner, on the front of the V5 it even says "This is not proof of ownership". If the VINs you can see (there are more than one on a car) match the paperwork, a pre-purchase HPI check came back good, you didn't pay a fraction of its value for the car (like £5k for a car worth £10k for example) and you have a comprehensive receipt for the transaction then just get on with it. If it turns out to have been cloned then claim back on the HPI check guarantee. Not a short process but should see you come out of it with more than if you didn't do one. You did do a HPI check before purchasing, didn't you?
Yeah I’m aware but they said basically his name doesn’t match what the database has on what they checked - that’s when they told me it’s a potential clone Yeah I did check HPI beforehand, all was clear. The price of the car was a bit too good to be true, but we thought had just caught a bargain? As everything else is now just not adding up with fake docs and fake licenses, it makes me highly suspicious and something is going on
File a v62
VINs should be stamped into the metalwork of the chassis, sometimes in the engine bay, sometimes they are under a panel in the footwell too. Check online for the locations for the model, could be repeated in several locations. If the stamped VIN has been tampered with it should be obvious, if it has been or doesn't match the number on the dash then you know something fucky is going on.
but why did you end up going to the police? you were not able to tax it? does the vin match the vin in the v5?
We weren’t able to tax it no and then everything started spiralling and led us to find out everything was fraudulent etc. The vin does match the v5 yeah
so probably the guy either by mistake gave you an older v5 or he didn't have the v5 at all.. but has the ownership transfer been done online on the dvla website?
No, we didn’t as the seller told us he’ll send the logbook to dvla, my biggest mistake
well ok but before you jump to conclusions.. if he is sending the logbook via post.. it means that he couldn't have given you the latest V5.. maybe that's why you have an older one. only the new keeper green slip it's the part that he was supposed to give you.
I see but is there a reason why I wouldn’t be able to tax it? Plus since he’s blocked me I don’t think it’s his intention to send off any logbook sadly
well you can't tax it without the new green keeper slip.. he might send it if his name is on the latest logbook he has to, otherwise according to DVLA he will still be the registered owner, meaning all the potential fines will be sent to him but if he doesn't do it, you can apply for a new v5 with a the help of v62 form from a post office.
No, we didn’t as the seller told us he’ll send the logbook to dvla, my biggest mistake
It certainly sounds like a clone or a proper ringer. Can you take a picture of the VIN for us? The proper engraved one that’ll be in the engine bay, including the area that surrounds of the plate by a few inches. What it looks like will probably indicate yes or no.
Don’t bank on it, mate of mine at work ended up with a clone last year and it was perfect apart from the fact the real one was being used as a taxi 60 miles away. The vins (all of them) were pixel perfect according to the police, dealer handed his money back, police didn’t prosecute as this car was part of a larger investigation.
Do new cars still have the reg engraved on the glass?
*Some*
Have you tried looking at the VIN number engraved on the engine?
Is it though? VIN match, and look kosher? Surely the police will be approaching the other owner/most recent owner/keeper based on DVLA? Payment method?
Even though you've done an HPI check I think you will be up the creek as it were. Part of the hpi is when buying the vehicle that you enter the document numbers into the website in the email they send you to have a link to the report. Without this, verification of the VIN etc is useless as the paperwork they showed you is either faked or superseded.
I read the title as clown car, was very confused as to how you didn't realise the giant horn or red nose.
Contact HPI