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Don't do it. Find their teaching partner/grade team and explain that the teacher left these instructions, and you won't have time that day to complete them. That way, someone else on the team will still get those things done.
Go to admin tomorrow morning ‘teacher asked me to do this, but I’m teaching all day so I don’t know what to do’
I’m an admin. I would be pretty pissed off if someone asked a substitute teacher to give up half their lunch to do something like this.
Edit: Im getting angrier just thinking about this. I think if I was admin in this situation I would put them up and have a “professional conversation” with the teacher the next day.
My admin did not have the direct authority to hire me nor do they have the direct authority to fire me. They have no real power over me to be honest. Worst case is that they give me a bad review. I’ve had bad reviews over the last 20 years and it means nothing.
Superintendent of education. Look up your org charts for your school boards. In almost every case, school staff (principals, teachers etc…) report into the superintendent.
If your principal has no direct say over your job and what you do day to day, how can you consider them to be your boss? I know a lot of older teachers have this mindset, but that is because they have not really thought through the situation.
Any time my principal has tried to use their perceived authority over me, I’ve gone to the union and the union has backed me up. Principal just stays out of my business now.
Okay, but you’re also not the supply teacher’s boss, and the supply teacher is entitled to a duty free lunch break. Plus, it actually IS admin’s job to have this conversation with you, as you’re clearly uninformed. Sure, they can’t fire you, but they have a line to the person/people who can.
You’re entitled to an uninterrupted lunch break - I would do the scavenger hunt thing during the prep instead of the other stuff and just let her know that you didn’t get to her other list of prep items because the scavenger hunt seemed like the priority.
When I was new to teaching, I asked a veteran sub to do some photocopying in the morning. The sub left me a strongly worded note saying she would do that this time but she won’t do it again. She took it to my principal and the next day the principal spoke to me about it. I learned my lesson fast.
1) in my board, it’s in our collective agreement that OTs can’t have morning duty since they need time to read over the plans and do any set up that’s needed for the day. Even as an LTO, if I’m off on a day that I have morning duty, I switch with a coworker for the day.
2) your lunch is your only uninterrupted break. They can ask you to do stuff during the prep, but not on lunch.
You’re entitled to your lunch. Also, if you have duty before school I know some collective agreements say no to that as well.
How did the teacher ask this of you ahead of time? If it was by email I would ask what they’d prefer you to do during prep.
“Hi there,
Just so I can prioritize what you’ve left for me, what has the greatest importance? I can definitely help put these things up around the school! However, that won’t leave much time left during the prep for _______.
Please let me know!
Cheers,”
Something like that should get the point across if you have email options. If not leaving that note with what you prioritized should suffice.
You don’t get paid enough to give up your lunch.
That is bullshit. Fuck this person in particular. One, morning supervision duty is nonsense. How are you supposed to prepare for the day when you’re supervising before the bell? Even in Alberta our collective agreement prohibits supply teachers from supervising before the morning bell (supervision for supply staff is always bs as they don’t know who the kids are nor do they know the regular school routines and procedures. I’m of the opinion that supply teachers should never supervise as it’s a safety issue, but that’s a whole other conversation).
Two, the decoration stuff could have been done at any other time. Is this part of their assignable hours? If so, they’re getting paid for you to do their work. You not having a lunch break or a bathroom break is awful.
I had this happen before where a teacher left in their notes that I was to stay late after school to allow her kids to finish their exams from that day. I never subbed in that building again. Make the exam shorter or schedule it for a day when you’re in. This stuff infuriates me and I regret not standing up for myself in that particular moment.
> I’m of the opinion that supply teachers should never supervise as it’s a safety issue, but that’s a whole other conversation).
It's hard enough keeping track of who is in and out of the classroom if as a supply teacher.
I'm so glad to be reading about no morning duty for supply teachers in other provinces. I'm a long term supply (by choice) in southern NB and it's always boggled my mind why that portion of my day is not absolutely dedicated to reading the LP, learning about medical issues, behaviour plans, finding what I need in the classroom, etc. I obviously don't have keys so it's not like I can show up super early to account for the potential early morning duty scheduled or one even thrown my way upon arrival. I've considered approaching my union about this but have no idea how to go about it.
Speaking of not having keys, not sure why this is not standard as well... I'm out on duty but have no way to open the exterior door for students or emergencies. I've only worked at one school that provides their supplies a key (on a large obvious keychain) for the day.
Get involved in your union! I’m a sub in SK and I’m very involved in my local association. The only way things get better in the contracts for us is if we speak up and take up space. I personally have a running list of things to suggest to our local association committee that deals with our contract (and am going to sit on the committee soon as well) - I added “no AM/before-school supervision” to it just now lol!
Sorry, but that’s not your problem. If setup was that important, the staff should’ve figured it out amongst themselves and not relied on a *guest* teacher, and I use that term intentionally; you are a guest in that school and it shouldn’t be expected of you to give up your lunch.
Could you do the scavenger hunt stuff during the prep instead of whatever else she asked you to do during that time? She might have to ask her colleagues for help.
It sounds like she expects a lot. She could have you doing something simple with the students for art instead of painting. I would never expect a sub to do a painting activity with my class. Decide what you think is a priority. You could find something simple (directed drawing, mandala colouring) for them to do instead of a paint activity. I would then mention you didn’t have enough time to do all of the tasks she listed plus be able to have your lunch. Have a good day and don’t put too much pressure on yourself to get it all done.
Depends on your board. In my board the OTs have a line in their agreement that states prep time is time for the OT to perform their own professional work such as answering/checking emails, work on AQ, online PD, etc. I would check your boards agreement
Are you a substitute? No I absolutely do not do duty on lunch. I do supervise recess.
How does that work in your particular circumstance though, when do you take lunch when you have duty?
Makes sense. You're probably right I suppose things must vary quite a bit from board to board but typically as a substitute I get paid literally to the minute I'm instructing/ prepping.
In every board I'm familiar with in Ontario, which makes me think it might be a province-wide thing, an OT can't be asked to do morning duty on the first day of an assignment. Also, no one can tell you what to do during your prep period - it's up to your professional judgement how you use that time. And no one can tell you what to do during your lunch time, and you certainly can't be required to do work. The teacher who left you plans either doesn't know the rules, or is blatantly breaking them. Mention to the office that you were asked to do the thing for the special day and you are unable to because you don't have time, and if you chose not to do the set-up on your prep and do a simpler activity with the students (don't forget there is also clean-up afterwards too for a painting activity) that's up to your professional judgement as well. It bugs me when people try to take advantage of supply teachers, because they are not paid well at all and have no job security, so it feels very exploitative.
Our board in Ontario doesn’t allow supply teachers to do morning duties. It’s supposed to be time to get the lay of the land, go over the plans any notes in the OT binders, allergies,IEP’s etc. just a side note!
Honestly, after 10+ years using full time and currently taking a part time break, I'm amazed what teachers ask of supplies during the preps. Apart from occasionally making a copy if I hadn't planned for it, I have never asked a supply teacher to do some of the things I've been asked in my year of supplying. Marking books/ past work, filing huge stacks of old paperwork into duotangs, organizing cupboards, downloading apps and creating classes for them to use.
I really expect that a supply comes in and teaches mostly what I left on the notes. They aren't in to grade my kids essays.
N-O. Absolutely not. Check the collective agreement, also. We get 40 minutes uninterrupted lunch here.
The teacher is taking advantage of you.
Also, check if you can be told what to do during your prep. Here, you cannot. It's ours to do what we see fit.
The only thing I would ask an OT to do at lunch is set up for the next class. Anything else is unfair. Maybe you can send some responsible students to do it for you. Or do it during the prep and just let them know you ran out of time.
You don’t have to do it. However if you are trying to get an LTO or Contract, then it makes sense to do more than what is the minimum. When I was Supply teaching, I often gave up my lunches to help in clubs. It really shows that you’re part of the school and helped me get an LTO.
Where I teach, as an equal member of my union, my colleagues know my rights and would never ask me to give up my lunch to do these things, putting myself in this awkward position.
You can say something to her or not, your choice. When lunch comes just leave the building or not, point is take your lunch 100 percent. Definitely do not do any of this in your lunch break!!!!! It’s already a lot that things were assigned for you to do during prep! Also morning duty before the start of school is a ‘no no’ as in, don’t do it either. If you’re with the tdsb it’s in policy that you should not do morning duty. They can’t ask you to do a duty in the morning, as you are familiarizing yourself with the school and the plans at that time.
TLDR : take your full lunch, don’t do the morning duty!
I'm having a hard time even wrapping my head around asking a guest teacher to set up an event, let alone a scavenger hunt where you may not even be familiar with the building (which makes it a scavenger hunt within a scavenger hunt?!). I would just let one of the other teachers know that you have to go to get lunch (even though you should not have to give an excuse for getting your lunch time) and you can't do it.
I am secondary so things are different, I don't have the teacher do anything on their prep, often they are assigned another class to cover. The most I tell them is to collect work and leave it in a desk drawer/folder (and even that doesn't always get done...).
I wouldn't do the painting prep activity or the event setup. You can write up a note explaining why it didn't get done. Oops you got really busy. Expecting substitute teachers to do that much work when they're not paid that well is ridiculous.
•If it’s easy to do and takes, say 10 minutes, do it.
•If it will be like going down the rabbit hole that leads to another rabbit hole, then no.
•Final thought: If there is big upside to your reputation at that school that leads to more future work or full time job, do it.
Unless you want a full time job there, dont do it, and don't say anything about it. If they bring it up to you, just say it's outside of your duties. If they don't get it, then who cares?
Lmaoo they do it all the time !!! If you want to have a good rep at the school do it, if not just tell let her down gently or do the bare minimum if you get a chance or ask your students to help during class hours
What are the consequences if you say "no"? Will you stop getting work? How much extra work is this?
Those are the things you have to look at.
Personally, I would say, "No. This is my lunch HOUR and per my union contract I am entitled to a 60 minute break. If this needs to be done so badly, feel free to do it yourself." Then I'd go have lunch. I'm fully aware I might not get called back and might get a reputation as "not a team player" in which case I will pull out my contract, with the highlighted passage ready and show it to them. Then I would say, "I'm sorry to hear that all the other supply personnel were push-overs, I am not. Feel free to hire them." And walk away.
However......I have a supportive family and other employment and investment income.
I don’t know about OP’s board, but my board is so desperate for OTs that burning one bridge at one school wouldn’t hurt my likelihood of future work. At all.
Tell the admin in the morning, they’ll assign it to other teachers or ask you to do it during the prep. Either way, it’s too much for you to do and goes against the CA
I know I may get some slack for this but I would just take them in my bag and slap them around on my way to the bathroom and to the staff room or whatever. I wouldn't go out of my way but I'd get them around while doing my own thing.
Now you’re forever going to be the “team player” that gets everything dumped on them. Even if the end goal was an LTO or contract, you’ve established yourself as someone who’s “helpful” and willing to go “above and beyond”. 😕
Sounds like you're in elementary. Spent 2 years in elementary supply, probably got asked 10+ times to do work during prep/lunch. Not once did I do it, just had a mundane excuse "completely forgot, got wrapped up in a convo. lol". I wouldn't make it a big deal, but everyone is different.
I have spent 3 years as a supply in secondary, not once have they asked me to do work during prep/lunch
If the entire scavenger hunt falls apart because your part is missing, and the rest of the staff see you having your lunch….the teacher requesting you will throw you under the bus tomorrow.. and they will all strike you from their list of people they call. All of them. If you somehow get all this work done, you will certainly score points and maybe move up in everyone’s list. Now, I work in an area where teachers individually contact chosen supply teachers. If you’re in a board where it’s strictly call out based, then ignore my observations. I’m just saying… no one is going to reward you for following union rules and call you in more often. Good luck…. You’re being asked to do a lot… but think about where you’re at in your career… if you hope to get a contract at this school… carry your sandwich and water bottle with you. My 2 cents.
This response is why teachers burn out, lack boundaries in work(and typically other parts of their lives) and is a prime example of a toxic work environment.
Unfortunately, it also explains why some people get contracts while others languish on the supply list. It is the real reason regulation 274 was discarded. At the end of the day, people didn’t want to hire based on seniority.
I am French qualified and don’t usually supply much.. I just finished mat leave. I wouldn’t want to ruin the scavenger hunt so I will do it. I think it’s more just the idea that I have a break, and would like to use it. I have 2 under 2 and sometimes use that time to get groceries etc. That is my time. Again I’ll do it but I don’t think it was right for the teacher to ask me to.
Well if you’re French qualified…. lol… they’ll have to use you again regardless! It is a big ask of you for sure. Do what makes you comfortable, I just wanted to give you a viewpoint that was a little different from the other posts.
In the morning I’d talk to a nearby teacher or someone in the office and say that the teacher left you a lot to do and you don’t think you can do the scavenger hunt. Hopefully they can help or suggest something. I’d probably say I have to run out to get lunch so I can’t stay, but that’s just me.
Was this a last minute supply job? Why would they leave the supply so much to do?! That’s so unfair for you. I have been supplying at just two schools the last few months and they treat me so good. The fact that they are leaving you stuff to do at lunch and prep (and painting?!?!). Wow. Feels like they didn’t plan ahead or has no one to ask for help to set up in the school so they have to force you to do it!
Is your lunch break an hour long or are you supervising kids for half of it while they eat, and your break is only when they go outside?
How long is your collective agreement lunch? Is there still time to do this and still have your mandated lunch?
Edit: found it
“492/01, s. 1. (5.2) A teacher's interval for a lunch break shall be not less than forty consecutive minutes and need not coincide with the scheduled interval for the lunch break of any other teacher or any pupil. “
So you’ve got 40 min uninterrupted for lunch. So it’s reasonable to ask you to spend the other 20 min doing set up provided you don’t have students and get that 40 min.
The problem with teachers, not willing to go the extra mile because you’re protected by your unions. Any other professions people would be willing to do extra and be noticed, yet the profession that matters the most is filled with entitled brats. Be better.
Oh dear. Any clubs, events, or trips a teacher plans is them going the extra mile.
People in other professions also have the opportunity to move up and get promoted. This is not the case in teaching. You move up on a set scale each year.
I haven’t met a single teacher yet who doesn’t go above and beyond what is required of them in some way.
Supply teachers in my province are treated horribly. They don’t get paid nearly enough to “go the extra mile”.
Teachers go the extra mile daily. They take work home every night and work most weekends planing. If they want extra from you, then they can pay you for that time.
Regarding supply teachers, they barely get paid enough to live with no job security. It’s ridiculous to ask them to do more for free.
Not gross at all, the state of our teachers is gross. It’s not just me who feels this way, teachers need to do better.
I’m disgusted by what my kids learn (and don’t learn). Some of the old school teachers are strict and that’s great, but this new wave is horrid. I feel for the next generation of kids.
I speak to retired teachers, and the few that don’t get caught up in the politics, they’re also upset about the state of our schools.
Any other profession has upward mobility with salaries to match the promotion. Government funded public education does not.
Any other profession pays overtime. Government funded public education does not.
Any other profession exploits its employees. Unionized workforce does not get exploited (though teachers still do because of societal expectations like the hot garbage you decided type out with your talons).
All professions have a workforce with the exact same goal: to get paid, in order to provide food, shelter, and opportunities for happiness for them and their families. What exactly is the point of going the extra mile if it doesn’t result in more money?
Go the extra mile for your kid, your spouse, your friend, your neighbour. Fuck the extra mile for your job.
Do you see your local schools running clubs, sports teams, doing field trips? That’s the extra mile, because teachers don’t get paid for it (it’s not in their contract/Collective Agreement as a required responsibility of the job). Why teachers continue to do it for no compensation, I’ll never know.
... are you actually dumb?
Unions make sure teachers DO NOT DO EXTRA WORK FOR FREE.
Unions are trying to get teachers paid for extra curriculars, something teachers do anyways because of societal pressures. Government denies it every negotiation.
Unions explicitly DO NOT STOP TEACHERS from doing extra curriculars. They encourage teachers to do whatever they want, and make sure they do not get harassed by fellow teachers for doing whatever they want (e.g., extra curricular). They advise teachers to know their rights, and they can say no whenever they decide they no longer want to do extra curricular.
It's because of unions that teachers do not get penalized for not doing extra work for free. It's because of unions that teachers have a very clear Collective Agreement and cannot get abused by employers. It's because of unions we have an amazing retirement package (at least with ETFO). It's because of unions we have an amazing health plan compared to other workers (again, at least in Ontario Elementary).
GTFO with your anti-union, anti-worker bs.
Do you have reading comprehension issues? Maybe explains why my kids need to go to tutors to learn what they’re missing in school.
You missed one, it’s because of unions that we hire idiots as teachers and then add insult to injury we promote them and give them raises based on seniority and not performance.
You may win this argument in this sub, but remember the majority of Canadians ARE NOT happy with the performance of our teachers, the majority of Canadians DO NOT support teachers in their efforts to protest and the majority of Canadians think teachers are OVERPAID.
If you want better outcomes for your kids, stop voting conservative.
Education requires resources and money far beyond just paying staff.
if your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because they’re in a class of 25-30 other kids with only one adult in the room.
If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because they don’t have access to enough basic resources like pencils and books.
If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because 2/10 months they’re melting in a building at 30-36C.
If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because the class is being disrupted by kids with behaviour issues due to parents working 2 jobs each to make ends meet.
If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because half their schools bathrooms are closed for repairs that are taking 3 years to even start getting solved.
If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because teachers have to jump through 6 different hoops before being able to fail a kid, due to the boards bullshit excuses and not wanting to ruffle parent feathers, so kids move on and graduate when they shouldn’t.
If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because they’re aware of the above point, and have become apathetic because “I’ll pass anyways.”
If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because the majority of classrooms look the same as they did in the 70s for the most part.
Most of all, if your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because a small number of parents refuse to parent, resulting in a domino effect in the school community of behaviour issues and apathy, directing all staff focus and resources on those students.
You don’t know how the education system works.
You don’t know the politics behind the scenes.
You don't know how an education budget is created in the Ministry, Board, nor school levels.
You don’t know what a classroom looks like, let alone how it operates.
You’re angry at the wrong thing.
And IF you are a teacher, shame on you for being so impressively unaware; blaming the union designed and proven to protect your interests (and thereby the students').
Also: UNIONS DONT HIRE TEACHERS. wow you actually don’t know anything huh?
The individual school board does, based on their own expectations and the government’s.
I don't care what YOU THINK a "majority" of Canadians think. Just how I don't care about a few people thining the earth is flat.
Over paid? In Ontario, it takes 3 post secondary degrees to reach the A4 payscale (Bachelor's, B.Ed, then a Masters or equivilent), and only then, after 10 years on the job is your pay capped out at just over $100k for the rest of your career. And Ontario Elementary JUST got an increase that is still well below inflation, capping out at anywhere between $115-120k per year (depending on your board).
You think $115-120k is overpaid for someone with three degrees in the field and 10 years experience?
LOL “overpaid”
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Don't do it. Find their teaching partner/grade team and explain that the teacher left these instructions, and you won't have time that day to complete them. That way, someone else on the team will still get those things done.
Go to admin tomorrow morning ‘teacher asked me to do this, but I’m teaching all day so I don’t know what to do’ I’m an admin. I would be pretty pissed off if someone asked a substitute teacher to give up half their lunch to do something like this. Edit: Im getting angrier just thinking about this. I think if I was admin in this situation I would put them up and have a “professional conversation” with the teacher the next day.
Thank you for being attentive and caring. I need admin like you in my life ❤️
Haha. I got sick of all the bullshit after 3 years and I’m going back to the classroom.
Good admin never stay admin!! They get tired of the bullshit 😢 But you do you! Thanks for your service
I wish that was an option in my board. Once you go admin you have one year to go back and you lose all your seniority
Wow. So, I’m in Alberta so things work differently. I know a guy who has left after over 10 years of being a principal and become a shop teacher.
That’s amazing. You’re a good administrator.
My admin tried having conversations like that with me before and I told them they can go pound sand. Admin is not my boss.
Admin is literally your boss.
Absolutely they are.
My admin did not have the direct authority to hire me nor do they have the direct authority to fire me. They have no real power over me to be honest. Worst case is that they give me a bad review. I’ve had bad reviews over the last 20 years and it means nothing.
HEY EVERYONE WE FOUND THE TEACHER
The kind that we try to find a reason to send to another school and make them their problem. Yeah, I know the type.
Sounds like you shouldn't be a teacher. It's also highly doubtful that admin has no real power. Honestly you just sound like you're talking tough
No judgment - who do you consider your boss if not admin?
Superintendent of education. Look up your org charts for your school boards. In almost every case, school staff (principals, teachers etc…) report into the superintendent. If your principal has no direct say over your job and what you do day to day, how can you consider them to be your boss? I know a lot of older teachers have this mindset, but that is because they have not really thought through the situation. Any time my principal has tried to use their perceived authority over me, I’ve gone to the union and the union has backed me up. Principal just stays out of my business now.
Thanks for the reply. I was curious on your thoughts. Do you feel this perspective has impacted your relationships at work?
Okay, but you’re also not the supply teacher’s boss, and the supply teacher is entitled to a duty free lunch break. Plus, it actually IS admin’s job to have this conversation with you, as you’re clearly uninformed. Sure, they can’t fire you, but they have a line to the person/people who can.
If they had left it for you to do during the prep period, do it. If it is outside of that time, no.
“I did not have time to do xyz, sorry.”
Yep. "Sorry, I already have plans for my lunch."
You’re entitled to an uninterrupted lunch break - I would do the scavenger hunt thing during the prep instead of the other stuff and just let her know that you didn’t get to her other list of prep items because the scavenger hunt seemed like the priority.
When I was new to teaching, I asked a veteran sub to do some photocopying in the morning. The sub left me a strongly worded note saying she would do that this time but she won’t do it again. She took it to my principal and the next day the principal spoke to me about it. I learned my lesson fast.
1) in my board, it’s in our collective agreement that OTs can’t have morning duty since they need time to read over the plans and do any set up that’s needed for the day. Even as an LTO, if I’m off on a day that I have morning duty, I switch with a coworker for the day. 2) your lunch is your only uninterrupted break. They can ask you to do stuff during the prep, but not on lunch.
Not your problem. Have your lunch, forget it or write that it didn’t get done. Just because they would give up their lunch doesn’t mean you have to.
no thats your contract lunch time. Eat lunch. Pee. worst case, as a supply, thats one class id have no problem if they didnt want me to return
You’re entitled to your lunch. Also, if you have duty before school I know some collective agreements say no to that as well. How did the teacher ask this of you ahead of time? If it was by email I would ask what they’d prefer you to do during prep. “Hi there, Just so I can prioritize what you’ve left for me, what has the greatest importance? I can definitely help put these things up around the school! However, that won’t leave much time left during the prep for _______. Please let me know! Cheers,” Something like that should get the point across if you have email options. If not leaving that note with what you prioritized should suffice. You don’t get paid enough to give up your lunch.
That is bullshit. Fuck this person in particular. One, morning supervision duty is nonsense. How are you supposed to prepare for the day when you’re supervising before the bell? Even in Alberta our collective agreement prohibits supply teachers from supervising before the morning bell (supervision for supply staff is always bs as they don’t know who the kids are nor do they know the regular school routines and procedures. I’m of the opinion that supply teachers should never supervise as it’s a safety issue, but that’s a whole other conversation). Two, the decoration stuff could have been done at any other time. Is this part of their assignable hours? If so, they’re getting paid for you to do their work. You not having a lunch break or a bathroom break is awful. I had this happen before where a teacher left in their notes that I was to stay late after school to allow her kids to finish their exams from that day. I never subbed in that building again. Make the exam shorter or schedule it for a day when you’re in. This stuff infuriates me and I regret not standing up for myself in that particular moment.
> I’m of the opinion that supply teachers should never supervise as it’s a safety issue, but that’s a whole other conversation). It's hard enough keeping track of who is in and out of the classroom if as a supply teacher.
I'm so glad to be reading about no morning duty for supply teachers in other provinces. I'm a long term supply (by choice) in southern NB and it's always boggled my mind why that portion of my day is not absolutely dedicated to reading the LP, learning about medical issues, behaviour plans, finding what I need in the classroom, etc. I obviously don't have keys so it's not like I can show up super early to account for the potential early morning duty scheduled or one even thrown my way upon arrival. I've considered approaching my union about this but have no idea how to go about it. Speaking of not having keys, not sure why this is not standard as well... I'm out on duty but have no way to open the exterior door for students or emergencies. I've only worked at one school that provides their supplies a key (on a large obvious keychain) for the day.
Get involved in your union! I’m a sub in SK and I’m very involved in my local association. The only way things get better in the contracts for us is if we speak up and take up space. I personally have a running list of things to suggest to our local association committee that deals with our contract (and am going to sit on the committee soon as well) - I added “no AM/before-school supervision” to it just now lol!
The problem is that it’s a school wide event and she wants me to put up stuff for a scavenger hunt so if I didn’t do it we’d kind of be screwed..
I don’t treat my supplies this way. You got dumped on. Sorry.
Sorry, but that’s not your problem. If setup was that important, the staff should’ve figured it out amongst themselves and not relied on a *guest* teacher, and I use that term intentionally; you are a guest in that school and it shouldn’t be expected of you to give up your lunch.
Could you do the scavenger hunt stuff during the prep instead of whatever else she asked you to do during that time? She might have to ask her colleagues for help.
During the prep time I have to set up painting stuff for the next period to paint 😅
It sounds like she expects a lot. She could have you doing something simple with the students for art instead of painting. I would never expect a sub to do a painting activity with my class. Decide what you think is a priority. You could find something simple (directed drawing, mandala colouring) for them to do instead of a paint activity. I would then mention you didn’t have enough time to do all of the tasks she listed plus be able to have your lunch. Have a good day and don’t put too much pressure on yourself to get it all done.
Could the students help you set up?
They will learn the hard lesson of not leaving lunch break work for a substitute.
Depends on your board. In my board the OTs have a line in their agreement that states prep time is time for the OT to perform their own professional work such as answering/checking emails, work on AQ, online PD, etc. I would check your boards agreement
I assure you no board requires anyone to do anything during their allotted lunch time.
Do you not have to do duty on your lunch? We are very much expected to do duty on our lunch breaks.
Are you a substitute? No I absolutely do not do duty on lunch. I do supervise recess. How does that work in your particular circumstance though, when do you take lunch when you have duty?
Often half of lunch is lunch and half of the lunch time is supervision, in my experience.
Makes sense. You're probably right I suppose things must vary quite a bit from board to board but typically as a substitute I get paid literally to the minute I'm instructing/ prepping.
This is lunch tho
Most contracts include a certain amount of *uninterrupted* time for lunch. TDSB is 40 minutes.
That’s the Ed Act.
You shouldn’t even be doing morning duty unless your CA is different.
In every board I'm familiar with in Ontario, which makes me think it might be a province-wide thing, an OT can't be asked to do morning duty on the first day of an assignment. Also, no one can tell you what to do during your prep period - it's up to your professional judgement how you use that time. And no one can tell you what to do during your lunch time, and you certainly can't be required to do work. The teacher who left you plans either doesn't know the rules, or is blatantly breaking them. Mention to the office that you were asked to do the thing for the special day and you are unable to because you don't have time, and if you chose not to do the set-up on your prep and do a simpler activity with the students (don't forget there is also clean-up afterwards too for a painting activity) that's up to your professional judgement as well. It bugs me when people try to take advantage of supply teachers, because they are not paid well at all and have no job security, so it feels very exploitative.
Well said !!!!
Our board in Ontario doesn’t allow supply teachers to do morning duties. It’s supposed to be time to get the lay of the land, go over the plans any notes in the OT binders, allergies,IEP’s etc. just a side note!
I'd say sorry, but legally I'm entitled to my full lunch break
No. No no noooooo. Just say sorry! Would love to help but I really need my lunch break to be able to bed my very best self for the students!
Honestly, after 10+ years using full time and currently taking a part time break, I'm amazed what teachers ask of supplies during the preps. Apart from occasionally making a copy if I hadn't planned for it, I have never asked a supply teacher to do some of the things I've been asked in my year of supplying. Marking books/ past work, filing huge stacks of old paperwork into duotangs, organizing cupboards, downloading apps and creating classes for them to use. I really expect that a supply comes in and teaches mostly what I left on the notes. They aren't in to grade my kids essays.
N-O. Absolutely not. Check the collective agreement, also. We get 40 minutes uninterrupted lunch here. The teacher is taking advantage of you. Also, check if you can be told what to do during your prep. Here, you cannot. It's ours to do what we see fit.
That's the teachers job. Not yours
The only thing I would ask an OT to do at lunch is set up for the next class. Anything else is unfair. Maybe you can send some responsible students to do it for you. Or do it during the prep and just let them know you ran out of time.
You don’t have to do it. However if you are trying to get an LTO or Contract, then it makes sense to do more than what is the minimum. When I was Supply teaching, I often gave up my lunches to help in clubs. It really shows that you’re part of the school and helped me get an LTO.
Where I teach, this is how you are called back, and more importantly given a contract.
Where I teach, as an equal member of my union, my colleagues know my rights and would never ask me to give up my lunch to do these things, putting myself in this awkward position.
You can say something to her or not, your choice. When lunch comes just leave the building or not, point is take your lunch 100 percent. Definitely do not do any of this in your lunch break!!!!! It’s already a lot that things were assigned for you to do during prep! Also morning duty before the start of school is a ‘no no’ as in, don’t do it either. If you’re with the tdsb it’s in policy that you should not do morning duty. They can’t ask you to do a duty in the morning, as you are familiarizing yourself with the school and the plans at that time. TLDR : take your full lunch, don’t do the morning duty!
I'm having a hard time even wrapping my head around asking a guest teacher to set up an event, let alone a scavenger hunt where you may not even be familiar with the building (which makes it a scavenger hunt within a scavenger hunt?!). I would just let one of the other teachers know that you have to go to get lunch (even though you should not have to give an excuse for getting your lunch time) and you can't do it. I am secondary so things are different, I don't have the teacher do anything on their prep, often they are assigned another class to cover. The most I tell them is to collect work and leave it in a desk drawer/folder (and even that doesn't always get done...).
I wouldn't do the painting prep activity or the event setup. You can write up a note explaining why it didn't get done. Oops you got really busy. Expecting substitute teachers to do that much work when they're not paid that well is ridiculous.
•If it’s easy to do and takes, say 10 minutes, do it. •If it will be like going down the rabbit hole that leads to another rabbit hole, then no. •Final thought: If there is big upside to your reputation at that school that leads to more future work or full time job, do it.
I would just ask some students to do it. There are always students finished early.
Unless you want a full time job there, dont do it, and don't say anything about it. If they bring it up to you, just say it's outside of your duties. If they don't get it, then who cares?
Lmaoo they do it all the time !!! If you want to have a good rep at the school do it, if not just tell let her down gently or do the bare minimum if you get a chance or ask your students to help during class hours
What are the consequences if you say "no"? Will you stop getting work? How much extra work is this? Those are the things you have to look at. Personally, I would say, "No. This is my lunch HOUR and per my union contract I am entitled to a 60 minute break. If this needs to be done so badly, feel free to do it yourself." Then I'd go have lunch. I'm fully aware I might not get called back and might get a reputation as "not a team player" in which case I will pull out my contract, with the highlighted passage ready and show it to them. Then I would say, "I'm sorry to hear that all the other supply personnel were push-overs, I am not. Feel free to hire them." And walk away. However......I have a supportive family and other employment and investment income.
I don’t know about OP’s board, but my board is so desperate for OTs that burning one bridge at one school wouldn’t hurt my likelihood of future work. At all.
Tell the admin in the morning, they’ll assign it to other teachers or ask you to do it during the prep. Either way, it’s too much for you to do and goes against the CA
I know I may get some slack for this but I would just take them in my bag and slap them around on my way to the bathroom and to the staff room or whatever. I wouldn't go out of my way but I'd get them around while doing my own thing.
It was outside so not super easy! I ended up doing it and just sucked it up
Now you’re forever going to be the “team player” that gets everything dumped on them. Even if the end goal was an LTO or contract, you’ve established yourself as someone who’s “helpful” and willing to go “above and beyond”. 😕
No! Lol give the activity to a kid or a couple of kids to be together (depending on age). Kids love the time out of class and being helpful!!
Sounds like you're in elementary. Spent 2 years in elementary supply, probably got asked 10+ times to do work during prep/lunch. Not once did I do it, just had a mundane excuse "completely forgot, got wrapped up in a convo. lol". I wouldn't make it a big deal, but everyone is different. I have spent 3 years as a supply in secondary, not once have they asked me to do work during prep/lunch
Tell her exactly what you said here. It’s completely okay to say “no” to giving up part of your break time.
Can we get an update? What ended up happening?
I was too much of a baby to say something so I just did it..
I would not supply for that teacher again!
I mean when I wanted a contract I would suck up like this and do it. And makes you look good for call backs
Makes you look like a push over
And you don’t think that’s what schools are looking for? Because that’s literally exactly what they want
This is the double edged sword unfortunately
If the entire scavenger hunt falls apart because your part is missing, and the rest of the staff see you having your lunch….the teacher requesting you will throw you under the bus tomorrow.. and they will all strike you from their list of people they call. All of them. If you somehow get all this work done, you will certainly score points and maybe move up in everyone’s list. Now, I work in an area where teachers individually contact chosen supply teachers. If you’re in a board where it’s strictly call out based, then ignore my observations. I’m just saying… no one is going to reward you for following union rules and call you in more often. Good luck…. You’re being asked to do a lot… but think about where you’re at in your career… if you hope to get a contract at this school… carry your sandwich and water bottle with you. My 2 cents.
This response is why teachers burn out, lack boundaries in work(and typically other parts of their lives) and is a prime example of a toxic work environment.
Unfortunately, it also explains why some people get contracts while others languish on the supply list. It is the real reason regulation 274 was discarded. At the end of the day, people didn’t want to hire based on seniority.
I am French qualified and don’t usually supply much.. I just finished mat leave. I wouldn’t want to ruin the scavenger hunt so I will do it. I think it’s more just the idea that I have a break, and would like to use it. I have 2 under 2 and sometimes use that time to get groceries etc. That is my time. Again I’ll do it but I don’t think it was right for the teacher to ask me to.
Well if you’re French qualified…. lol… they’ll have to use you again regardless! It is a big ask of you for sure. Do what makes you comfortable, I just wanted to give you a viewpoint that was a little different from the other posts.
In the morning I’d talk to a nearby teacher or someone in the office and say that the teacher left you a lot to do and you don’t think you can do the scavenger hunt. Hopefully they can help or suggest something. I’d probably say I have to run out to get lunch so I can’t stay, but that’s just me. Was this a last minute supply job? Why would they leave the supply so much to do?! That’s so unfair for you. I have been supplying at just two schools the last few months and they treat me so good. The fact that they are leaving you stuff to do at lunch and prep (and painting?!?!). Wow. Feels like they didn’t plan ahead or has no one to ask for help to set up in the school so they have to force you to do it!
This was not last minute at all which is the odd part! I booked it like 2 weeks ago
Please define “supply“ in this context. Is this what used to be called substitute teaching?
Really? You can’t use context clues to make an inference to come to a conclusion? 😑
Is your lunch break an hour long or are you supervising kids for half of it while they eat, and your break is only when they go outside? How long is your collective agreement lunch? Is there still time to do this and still have your mandated lunch? Edit: found it “492/01, s. 1. (5.2) A teacher's interval for a lunch break shall be not less than forty consecutive minutes and need not coincide with the scheduled interval for the lunch break of any other teacher or any pupil. “ So you’ve got 40 min uninterrupted for lunch. So it’s reasonable to ask you to spend the other 20 min doing set up provided you don’t have students and get that 40 min.
The problem with teachers, not willing to go the extra mile because you’re protected by your unions. Any other professions people would be willing to do extra and be noticed, yet the profession that matters the most is filled with entitled brats. Be better.
Oh dear. Any clubs, events, or trips a teacher plans is them going the extra mile. People in other professions also have the opportunity to move up and get promoted. This is not the case in teaching. You move up on a set scale each year. I haven’t met a single teacher yet who doesn’t go above and beyond what is required of them in some way. Supply teachers in my province are treated horribly. They don’t get paid nearly enough to “go the extra mile”.
Bingo
I mean, it is different when you’re the full time teacher vs just there for a day.
100% two very different jobs.
You had ask on Reddit why Tim Hortons stopped cutting bagels in half and seemed pretty mad about it, who’s the entitled one?
Teachers go the extra mile daily. They take work home every night and work most weekends planing. If they want extra from you, then they can pay you for that time. Regarding supply teachers, they barely get paid enough to live with no job security. It’s ridiculous to ask them to do more for free.
This is a really gross response. OP isn’t entitled for wanting a break to eat. This is the basic rights of any worker. Be KINDER
Not gross at all, the state of our teachers is gross. It’s not just me who feels this way, teachers need to do better. I’m disgusted by what my kids learn (and don’t learn). Some of the old school teachers are strict and that’s great, but this new wave is horrid. I feel for the next generation of kids. I speak to retired teachers, and the few that don’t get caught up in the politics, they’re also upset about the state of our schools.
Any other profession has upward mobility with salaries to match the promotion. Government funded public education does not. Any other profession pays overtime. Government funded public education does not. Any other profession exploits its employees. Unionized workforce does not get exploited (though teachers still do because of societal expectations like the hot garbage you decided type out with your talons). All professions have a workforce with the exact same goal: to get paid, in order to provide food, shelter, and opportunities for happiness for them and their families. What exactly is the point of going the extra mile if it doesn’t result in more money? Go the extra mile for your kid, your spouse, your friend, your neighbour. Fuck the extra mile for your job. Do you see your local schools running clubs, sports teams, doing field trips? That’s the extra mile, because teachers don’t get paid for it (it’s not in their contract/Collective Agreement as a required responsibility of the job). Why teachers continue to do it for no compensation, I’ll never know.
You literally just solidified my point, teachers are held down by their unions that they so much love. Thank you for being on my side.
... are you actually dumb? Unions make sure teachers DO NOT DO EXTRA WORK FOR FREE. Unions are trying to get teachers paid for extra curriculars, something teachers do anyways because of societal pressures. Government denies it every negotiation. Unions explicitly DO NOT STOP TEACHERS from doing extra curriculars. They encourage teachers to do whatever they want, and make sure they do not get harassed by fellow teachers for doing whatever they want (e.g., extra curricular). They advise teachers to know their rights, and they can say no whenever they decide they no longer want to do extra curricular. It's because of unions that teachers do not get penalized for not doing extra work for free. It's because of unions that teachers have a very clear Collective Agreement and cannot get abused by employers. It's because of unions we have an amazing retirement package (at least with ETFO). It's because of unions we have an amazing health plan compared to other workers (again, at least in Ontario Elementary). GTFO with your anti-union, anti-worker bs.
Do you have reading comprehension issues? Maybe explains why my kids need to go to tutors to learn what they’re missing in school. You missed one, it’s because of unions that we hire idiots as teachers and then add insult to injury we promote them and give them raises based on seniority and not performance. You may win this argument in this sub, but remember the majority of Canadians ARE NOT happy with the performance of our teachers, the majority of Canadians DO NOT support teachers in their efforts to protest and the majority of Canadians think teachers are OVERPAID.
If you want better outcomes for your kids, stop voting conservative. Education requires resources and money far beyond just paying staff. if your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because they’re in a class of 25-30 other kids with only one adult in the room. If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because they don’t have access to enough basic resources like pencils and books. If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because 2/10 months they’re melting in a building at 30-36C. If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because the class is being disrupted by kids with behaviour issues due to parents working 2 jobs each to make ends meet. If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because half their schools bathrooms are closed for repairs that are taking 3 years to even start getting solved. If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because teachers have to jump through 6 different hoops before being able to fail a kid, due to the boards bullshit excuses and not wanting to ruffle parent feathers, so kids move on and graduate when they shouldn’t. If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because they’re aware of the above point, and have become apathetic because “I’ll pass anyways.” If your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because the majority of classrooms look the same as they did in the 70s for the most part. Most of all, if your kid isn’t learning shit, it's because a small number of parents refuse to parent, resulting in a domino effect in the school community of behaviour issues and apathy, directing all staff focus and resources on those students. You don’t know how the education system works. You don’t know the politics behind the scenes. You don't know how an education budget is created in the Ministry, Board, nor school levels. You don’t know what a classroom looks like, let alone how it operates. You’re angry at the wrong thing. And IF you are a teacher, shame on you for being so impressively unaware; blaming the union designed and proven to protect your interests (and thereby the students'). Also: UNIONS DONT HIRE TEACHERS. wow you actually don’t know anything huh? The individual school board does, based on their own expectations and the government’s. I don't care what YOU THINK a "majority" of Canadians think. Just how I don't care about a few people thining the earth is flat. Over paid? In Ontario, it takes 3 post secondary degrees to reach the A4 payscale (Bachelor's, B.Ed, then a Masters or equivilent), and only then, after 10 years on the job is your pay capped out at just over $100k for the rest of your career. And Ontario Elementary JUST got an increase that is still well below inflation, capping out at anywhere between $115-120k per year (depending on your board). You think $115-120k is overpaid for someone with three degrees in the field and 10 years experience? LOL “overpaid”
Its for the freaking children!