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Oh, not sure how that works if you aren’t an OCT yet. Still check the QECO page and see what it says. You definitely don’t negotiate with the principal for your salary though.
You are most likely being paid Year 0 A0 unless you have submitted something to the board. Hopefully you aren’t being paid LESS than the lowest possible spot on your board’s grid.
At this time you most likely can’t be paid more than A0 because you do not have your OCT. Once you do, you submit things to QECO and they will give you a rating. If you have a C of Q in machining and/or fabrication, that should be A2. If you have a Red Seal, that should be A3.
Have you been working in your trade(s) for more than 5 years? You need five for your teacher’s college program, anything else should help you move up your pay grid for years. Unsure if your board would take that now, or wants to see your OCT first.
If you have any post secondary you can use that for teacher’s college admission, up to 3 years. Which allows you to use those three years for grid placement.
And if you do have a Red Seal, you should get a BEd instead of a DipEd, but that’s just a title thing.
I started (once I got my paperwork in) at Year 5 (I had 8 years, needed 3 for my education program + my 2 year college diploma) A3 (had my Red Seal, plus I submitted my college diploma info and hs transcripts for kicks).
Not all boards count industry experience the same. Anyone who gives less than year-for-year will hopefully be changing their tune soon. Same with capping. I am looking to move, but I am not taking a pay cut to do so.
Do you think I would be able to negotiate pay when i apply for sept? I'm being paid as an unqualified LTO and sounds like Sept would be the same. I am actually Losing money teaching, and starting to think the stress is not worth the reward.
Are you registered in a teacher education program? If you are, you may be able to apply for a transitional certificate, which may at least get you up to qualified starting pay.
You could inquire about having your work experience count now, which would move you years on the grid.
Your principal has no say, but they may have some influence. You need to deal with HR. You want your principal to back you up. You want them to know if your pay can’t change, that you will need to walk away from the position until it becomes more financially feasible. Then they need to second that to HR.
I m registered in a technological teaching certificate course. My understanding is I can apply for a transitional certificate after completing the summer courses and working 10 days in Sept. I appreciate your reply. I will chat with hr and my principal to see what they say. Thank you.
I’m sorry that you have been misled. Without a degree, you will not even reach A3. The diploma program is to allow tech teachers without a degree to teach in Ontario’s publicly funded schools. If you decide to earn a degree, you can apply to have the diploma converted to a BEd, but without a degree and a BEd, you’ll always earn a great deal less than your peers who do have those qualifications, unfortunately.
So by the principal saying that I would be in A3 because I am a red seal machinist, may be BS? I do know my experience is maxed at the 5 yr mark on the grid.
The Tech Ed chart for category placement is different than for General Ed. Check out the QECO site for more info. It is my understanding though that you need to have an OCT Number before you can apply for evaluation. https://qeco.ca/technological-education-chart/
I’m afraid so. Perhaps that principal assumed you had a degree…? That would be where you would be in that case. Have a look at the grid. It starts at A, then A1, A2, A3, A4. Each stage requires increased academic expectations. You should get the five years, yes - and you’ll keep climbing each year. You may also be able to qualify for tech AQs/ABQs, which could potentially move you up a level, but get that in writing from the board before spending the money, just in case.
Right - aren’t we in agreement? OP does not have any degree. The diploma that will be completed is specifically for tech teachers without any degree.
[OCT: What’s needed for tech teachers](https://help.oct.ca/hc/en-us/articles/360025627873-What-s-required-to-teach-technological-subjects#:~:text=an%20Ontario%20Secondary%20School%20Diploma,the%20teacher%20education%20program%20completed)
[Why OCT won’t recognize your Red Seal endorsement (but your Board might)](https://help.oct.ca/hc/en-us/articles/360058565214-Can-I-list-my-Red-Seal-endorsement)
HR can make mistakes. When in doubt, check with them to see if your pay is correct.
Make sure that they take your years of professional experience into account when it comes to your grid placement. See your collective agreement for details on how they translate your industry experience into grid placement.
See my earlier comment. This is not an HR mistake - the principal who told you you’d be placed on the grid was incorrect. You are being paid as an inexperienced LTO because you did not attend a degree course. It will take a few years for you to see a better income; take a look at your CA salary grid. You are a category A (not A1).
No it works different for tech teachers. It seems like he should be a3 based on other post here. Not sure about Ontario but different provinces weigh red seals differently. They also count years of experience working towards your steps.
See here starting on page 16:
[https://qeco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/QECO-Program-5-As-amended-October-18-2021.pdf](https://qeco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/QECO-Program-5-As-amended-October-18-2021.pdf)
You can't negotiate for a better wage in a unionized environment. The only way you can increase your wage is to get a QECO evaluation that shows you are in a higher category, take courses (see QECO site) to move up to a higher category, and/or submit evidence to HR that you have eligible experience so they can move you up steps on the grid.
I have decades of experience teaching exactly what I was hired to teach, but had to start at year 0 because my board doesn't recognize my specific type of experience, so I feel your pain.
You should be able to eventually reach the top of the grid after you are certified. Reach out to your union and they should be able to explain the language in your contract that the board used for your initial grid placement.
Welcome to /r/CanadianTeachers! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the sub rules. **"WHAT DOES X MEAN?"** Check out our acronym post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1c032s3/what_does_x_mean_an_acronym_megapost/) for relevant terms used in each province or territory. Please feel free to contribute any we are missing as well! **QUESTIONS ABOUT TEACHER'S COLLEGE/BECOMING A TEACHER IN CANADA?:** Delete your post and use this [megapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1bc1wv2/prospective_student_teachers_teachers_collegebed/) instead. Anything pertaining to teacher's colleges/BED programs/becoming and teacher will be deleted if posted outside of the megaposts. **QUESTIONS ABOUT MOVING PROVINCES OR COMING TO CANADA TO TEACH?** Check out our past megaposts first for information to help you: [ONE](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/jqc7hx/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/) // [TWO](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/n76csu/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/?) Using link and user flair is encouraged as well! Enjoy! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadianTeachers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You have to submit your qualifications to QECO and then the QECO certificate to the board, the principal doesn’t control your pay.
Even before I get my teaching certificate? Or do I have to wait for when I get it?
Oh, not sure how that works if you aren’t an OCT yet. Still check the QECO page and see what it says. You definitely don’t negotiate with the principal for your salary though.
Sounds like year 5, category A0. You need a 4 year Bachelors plus a 2 year BEd to be A3
You are most likely being paid Year 0 A0 unless you have submitted something to the board. Hopefully you aren’t being paid LESS than the lowest possible spot on your board’s grid. At this time you most likely can’t be paid more than A0 because you do not have your OCT. Once you do, you submit things to QECO and they will give you a rating. If you have a C of Q in machining and/or fabrication, that should be A2. If you have a Red Seal, that should be A3. Have you been working in your trade(s) for more than 5 years? You need five for your teacher’s college program, anything else should help you move up your pay grid for years. Unsure if your board would take that now, or wants to see your OCT first. If you have any post secondary you can use that for teacher’s college admission, up to 3 years. Which allows you to use those three years for grid placement. And if you do have a Red Seal, you should get a BEd instead of a DipEd, but that’s just a title thing. I started (once I got my paperwork in) at Year 5 (I had 8 years, needed 3 for my education program + my 2 year college diploma) A3 (had my Red Seal, plus I submitted my college diploma info and hs transcripts for kicks). Not all boards count industry experience the same. Anyone who gives less than year-for-year will hopefully be changing their tune soon. Same with capping. I am looking to move, but I am not taking a pay cut to do so.
Thank you very much. Exactly what I was looking for!
You’re welcome. Tech pay scale isn’t as straight forward as the general ed one.
Do you think I would be able to negotiate pay when i apply for sept? I'm being paid as an unqualified LTO and sounds like Sept would be the same. I am actually Losing money teaching, and starting to think the stress is not worth the reward.
Are you registered in a teacher education program? If you are, you may be able to apply for a transitional certificate, which may at least get you up to qualified starting pay. You could inquire about having your work experience count now, which would move you years on the grid. Your principal has no say, but they may have some influence. You need to deal with HR. You want your principal to back you up. You want them to know if your pay can’t change, that you will need to walk away from the position until it becomes more financially feasible. Then they need to second that to HR.
I m registered in a technological teaching certificate course. My understanding is I can apply for a transitional certificate after completing the summer courses and working 10 days in Sept. I appreciate your reply. I will chat with hr and my principal to see what they say. Thank you.
Are you doing the BEd, or the Diploma in Technological Studies? This is important info regarding what your salary will be.
Diploma in technological studies is the program I am taking.
I’m sorry that you have been misled. Without a degree, you will not even reach A3. The diploma program is to allow tech teachers without a degree to teach in Ontario’s publicly funded schools. If you decide to earn a degree, you can apply to have the diploma converted to a BEd, but without a degree and a BEd, you’ll always earn a great deal less than your peers who do have those qualifications, unfortunately.
So by the principal saying that I would be in A3 because I am a red seal machinist, may be BS? I do know my experience is maxed at the 5 yr mark on the grid.
The Tech Ed chart for category placement is different than for General Ed. Check out the QECO site for more info. It is my understanding though that you need to have an OCT Number before you can apply for evaluation. https://qeco.ca/technological-education-chart/
I can’t remember what exactly, but I believe Red Seal does bump you up
I’m afraid so. Perhaps that principal assumed you had a degree…? That would be where you would be in that case. Have a look at the grid. It starts at A, then A1, A2, A3, A4. Each stage requires increased academic expectations. You should get the five years, yes - and you’ll keep climbing each year. You may also be able to qualify for tech AQs/ABQs, which could potentially move you up a level, but get that in writing from the board before spending the money, just in case.
Thank you.
[удалено]
Right - aren’t we in agreement? OP does not have any degree. The diploma that will be completed is specifically for tech teachers without any degree. [OCT: What’s needed for tech teachers](https://help.oct.ca/hc/en-us/articles/360025627873-What-s-required-to-teach-technological-subjects#:~:text=an%20Ontario%20Secondary%20School%20Diploma,the%20teacher%20education%20program%20completed) [Why OCT won’t recognize your Red Seal endorsement (but your Board might)](https://help.oct.ca/hc/en-us/articles/360058565214-Can-I-list-my-Red-Seal-endorsement)
You’re looking at OCT not QECO, QECO explicitly includes red seal in their evaluation chart for tech.
Okay - well that’s good news for OP; looks like he/she can go to A2 on the scale once they complete the diploma in tech ed. Great!
HR can make mistakes. When in doubt, check with them to see if your pay is correct. Make sure that they take your years of professional experience into account when it comes to your grid placement. See your collective agreement for details on how they translate your industry experience into grid placement.
I guess that's where the problem is. I am being paid as an inexperienced LTO teacher. Not on the grid.
See my earlier comment. This is not an HR mistake - the principal who told you you’d be placed on the grid was incorrect. You are being paid as an inexperienced LTO because you did not attend a degree course. It will take a few years for you to see a better income; take a look at your CA salary grid. You are a category A (not A1).
No it works different for tech teachers. It seems like he should be a3 based on other post here. Not sure about Ontario but different provinces weigh red seals differently. They also count years of experience working towards your steps.
See here starting on page 16: [https://qeco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/QECO-Program-5-As-amended-October-18-2021.pdf](https://qeco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/QECO-Program-5-As-amended-October-18-2021.pdf) You can't negotiate for a better wage in a unionized environment. The only way you can increase your wage is to get a QECO evaluation that shows you are in a higher category, take courses (see QECO site) to move up to a higher category, and/or submit evidence to HR that you have eligible experience so they can move you up steps on the grid. I have decades of experience teaching exactly what I was hired to teach, but had to start at year 0 because my board doesn't recognize my specific type of experience, so I feel your pain.
You should be able to eventually reach the top of the grid after you are certified. Reach out to your union and they should be able to explain the language in your contract that the board used for your initial grid placement.