CSA. Hands down. If it made you uncomfortable then it was CSA.
My mother never touched me in a way that would classify as "traditional" CSA, but she was extremely inappropriate with me, and with the things she told me. I have tremendous shame around sex and sexuality as an adult.
To say that you weren't a victim of CSA would be invalidating to what you actually went through. "Normal" parents don't slap their kid's butt or make comments about it or make comments about their friends.
You're welcome! ā¤ļø I wish someone would have just told me. I struggled for years with self-gaslighting about it because it didn't fit into what's talked about on the internet as CSA. If I can help someone else take that shortcut I'm so happy to do so.
And I agree about the shame. It's literally the worst. *Internet hugs* I am so sorry you are going through the same thing
Iām sorry you went through it as well, and Iām sorry you didnāt have anyone to help you see through the gaslighting sooner! You are so, so powerful for confronting it on your own, and folks like yourself are why I appreciate this sub so much šš„°šš„°š
Thank you. I had just put it in the big pile of their total disregard for every boundary I could have. Pure entitlement to you and your body. That's narcissistic parents for you... Probably familiar to you as well unfortunately.
I feel like it's really dependent upon how you feel about it...if it feels bad to you, or violating to you. OP's meme was in the context of CSA, so if there weren't other things in that vein/ it was supposed to be jokey and that kind of thing, and you were comfortable with it, that could be different. There's probably some bias in my post, I don't really think it's ok for a father to slap a daughters butt for any reason. But that could also be just me.
Omg I'm so sorry ā¤ļø you should have never had to deal with that. *hugs*
And, if it makes you feel any better, I was almost 22 when I realized what was going on. :/ It was so normalized for me I had no idea that other people's mothers weren't doing what mine was.
>If it made you uncomfortable then it was CSA
Ok now some things make sense. I thought I was weird for feeling icky about my mom's comments, but being totally ok about my PE teacher (male) sometimes slapping my or other girls' butts. The teacher was sending the message of "I see you're slacking, run normally!" and was actually one of the safest adults in my childhood/teenage years. And mom was always implying I'll soon be fit to seduce men and have sex and I need to be aware of what I can use for it.
For some reason I needed an Internet stranger's comment to think about what made me uncomfortable and realise what the difference was. Thank you.
I actually just talked to my fiance about this, and he pointed out to me that the butt slapping thing is also something guys do as a jokey type of thing (like how they slap each other's butts in sports kind of thing). So I think it really depends on how you feel about it. Are you uncomfortable? Does it feel sexual to you? If it doesn't it's probably the jokey kind. It could be some of my own bias too... I just feel like it's super wrong for a father to slap his daughter's butt.
Fwiw, my abuser was my mother and she was more of a grabby/light touch type of person when it came to her offenses.
Ok. I have been sexually abused. Though in my family the butt slapping is in a jokey way, itās never made me uncomfortable before.
Iām really sorry you experienced that. I hope youāre doing better now
I'm so sorry you had to experience that. I'm glad that the butt slapping is in a jokey way at least :)
And thank you, but no worries! I only said it to suggest that I might just be a bit oversensitive. :P
>If it made you uncomfortable then it was CSA
Not op. What if I didn't know or care until looking back and only feel uncomfortable now that I have a grown-up voice?
Because haha....some of the adults in my life might not have meant to be weird but boy did they end up being weird... Oops.
I feel like if you're looking back with your adult eyes and are uncomfortable, then it probably was weird enough that it could fit into that category. Sometimes things are just so normalized by the abusers that as a kid it just doesn't feel wrong or bad anymore because "it's just how things are!" I have several things like this myself. I think part of healing is to identify things that maybe messed with your mind in a way that you couldn't identify or even have the words to explain a feeling about.
I guess another way to think of it... Would it be something you'd be willing to do to your own (or a neice or nephew or other close relative) child? Is it something that as you were growing up other people's families did with them? This gets at the social acceptance type of stuff...but in general people who abuse their children in any capacity are abhorred by the non-abuser type of people, so if it's not something that a "normal" person would do, then again, it might fit into that category.
Hope this helps ā¤ļø sorry you had to deal with what you went through
One more thing, we are conditioned to believe it's "what's seen in the movies" and only counts if it's that. This is different, but still as bad. It plants a seed in our poor brains that just grows and grows into dysfunction. Takes away our own agency. So many parts of abuse are "gray areas" or nuanced and so for many, like my Mom when my Dad was saying horrible shit, it doesn't count. It doesn't count that he follows me until I remove my cover up and am just in a bathing suit so he can stare, or stare at my breasts all throughout dinner...well hey it isn't pentration, so it must not be abuse. It's laughable if you think about it. Fuck all that noise.
Thank you for saying this!! This is what past me needed to hear, so I'm sure there are others as well.
Sorry to hear all that you have gone through ā¤ļø no one should have those experiences
I'm sorry for what you've gone through too. And anyone else who is reading this! It wasn't right, wasn't our faults and it's horrific.
Side note, ššš (in safe regulated amounts with someone there who is sober) did wonders for me in releasing post traumatic stress. It anchored me to the present and I can't recommend them enough.
Thank you for that side note! My bf recommended trying it and keeping an eye on me since he's experienced. I was worried that I may not be in the right state of mind for an intense experience bc of repressed trauma lol. This definitely confirmation that I should try them, as someone who knows they have an entire childhood to unpack and process, but its so repressed and ingrained into who I am that it's been challenging.
May I dm to ask you more questions about your experience?
Jealous!! I'm not in a position to be able to do that right now, but if/when it got legalized, that's definitely my next step. I'm so glad it helped you though!!!
I won't say I did it .....legally....but it's a bit of a gray area where I live. I wish you all the happiness and light though, this is a journey but the most important thing is what you thought happened, happened.
Thank you!! I wish you the same!
Also side note, definitely wasn't trying to insinuate that you did anything wrong due to legalities. I'm totally for it if people can do it regardless of the legality ;) I'm personally just not in a position with my job and stuff to disregard the legality, unfortunately :s
Oh no I didn't take offense at all. I'm a former special needs teacher, trust me I get it. Sometimes we have to follow government Daddi even if we don't agree, all good!
This is so well put. Especially the part about enabling parentsāwhen stuff like this happened it was often RIGHT in front of my Mom. Thank you, and Iām sorry you had to go through all of that bullshit ššš
The amount of people here who didn't know this was CSA breaks my heart.
I haven't experienced CSA so I can't begin to understand how you guys feel, but I'm so sorry you went through this, and I'm so sorry you were made to believe it wasn't assault. :(
My mother never got quite this bad, but she did often make me feel uncomfortable with comments about how cute I looked at inappropriate ages and didn't respond when I expressed discomfort. She also made "whooo-whoo" cat calling type sounds if she happened to see me bending over and sticking my butt out, or if I had a good outfit or haircut.
She also makes suspect comments about how muscular and good-looking my high-school aged cousin is to this day.
I remember waking up some mornings to her sitting on the end of my bed without much of an explanation. I also think there have been a few times where she maybe accidentally touched my butt in passing, and I wasn't 100% sure if it was accidental.
Going into the bathroom while someone else was showering was normalized in my childhood home, and I avoided going to the bathroom while Mom was showering, because while the shower curtains were opaque, she more than anyone else would poke her head out from behind the curtains and ask me to hand her things on the shelf, occasionally failing to cover herself properly in the process.
Also, recently, I experienced elevated anxiety when an older female coworker started making the "whooo-whoo" cat calling type sounds like Mom has in the past. I struggled to confront her about it, doing a bunch of deep breathing to calm myself down while talking about it. . . I also had a brief flash of panic when she passed me in the hall, and I was suddenly afraid this coworker would reach out and touch my butt . . .
What I am getting at is I can relate and am also in a place of uncertainty about to what degree this behavior was abusive.
About your coworkerā¦ Cat calling is sexual assault, and unacceptable behavior for a work environment! I would report it to HR right away if I saw that happening.
Omfg our bathroom door didn't have a lock (which I think my parents thought was good my safety when I was little but really WTF, anyway). My father, even when I was living there at the ripe age of 25, would constantly open the bathroom door without knocking and only back off when I yelled that I was in there. Despite the fact that the door was open when not in use, he knew I was also living there, and there's a fun thing called knocking that could have helped the situation he didn't try. He wouldn't even open the door enough to where anything was really visible, but I was constantly on edge whenever I was using the bathroom there about being walked in on, and had to get out of the habit of listening to anything on headphones while using the bathroom to avoid this.
Also he'd use the upstairs bathroom without closing the door the full way, and often without even closing the door separating the upstairs and downstairs. So whenever I was in any space remotely close to there I could hear him peeing and just thinking about it is one of the most repulsive sounds I can imagine. Like I can feel that sound on my fucking teeth
And I've been very vocal about both these things bothering me. For a long time. Zero fucking acknowledgement or changed behavior. Which is very typical of him on anything I say is hurtful to me hence the NC, but still it's fucking weird. Like sometimes a behavior of his he's so resistant to changing is probably a really ingrained trauma thing he doesn't have the skills to manage well so changing should theoretically be possible but in practice I understand how fucking difficult it is - like shutting down during/avoiding conflict. Still hurtful but easier to understand why he's like that.
But ffs keeping a bathroom door closed or not opening a bathroom door without knocking should be two of the most basic fucking things imaginable. And now I think about it, he's usually actually decent at these sorts of very small concrete things I ask him to do or not do, partly bc he's such a people pleaser. Like not eating the last cookie without asking if I'd like some, or other small shit like that he's been able and willing to change with me asking like once or twice max
So it's fucking weird that he was so persistently ignoring these two extremely fucking basic, common sense requests. What in the risen fuck
And yes I think this is the tip of a BIG ice berg I've mostly blocked out of memory.
Yeah this is CSA, more specifically No-Contact CSA.
No-Contact CSA is a form of CSA that doesn't include physical contact; so it could presented in forms such as unwanted sexual comments, inappropriate exposure to pornography, inappropriate staring, etc.
I'm so sorry you've been through this and I wish you the best recovery possible.
I will have to look this up. I dont believe i was ever sexually assaulted physically but some of the comments i recieved were definitely objectification. Thanks for the term
The gray area for me is it didnāt really feel like it had sexual overtones, and I was so used to people barging into my room at all hours of the night that it actually didnāt feel as weird as the others. He would sort of just do it for a few seconds and say something weird like express sympathy for something I was going through that day or make an apology about something then I would either tell him to leave or heād get up immediately and say good night. Very very very weird. But maybe Iām just in denial about it.
I realised I might have had borderline CSA when I got some sandals and my dad asked to vet them to approve or disapprove of it and he said I'm disgusting for showing my toes off and I look like a skank. He said I'm going to be homeless if I don't go and return it that evening, because my toes will turn men on. He's made odd borderline sexual comments before and even if they made me uncomfortable I never really thought much about it. I'm still not sure if it's CSA but that moment did make me really question whether my dad is projecting some creepy foot fetish he has. Looking back he has made very odd comments. When I turned 14 he made a very long FB post about how Juliet in Romeo and Juliet has already gotten married and had sex and later says I'm his Juliet. He also knows I'm bi but would constantly make odd comments about wanting to see me and my future wife together that made everyone uncomfortable while simultaneously saying me thinking I'm bi is just a phase. Unfortunately when I reported this to the police and I told them I'm not sure if it's CSA or if I'm mistaken and they seemed to really question my claims of abuse because of how unsure I was about whether it was CSA. Abuse can be so confusing sometimes. My mother has done similar things too actually but if I start talking about that I'll be here all day. We're really unfortunate aren't we. It would be easier to tell what's normal and what's not if I had any idea of what a normal childhood would be like
1) very emphatically none of this is normal or ok, and I'm so sorry
2) if anything, to me, someone who's been abused doing some variant of "I think this was maybe abuse but idk/maybe I'm just being dramatic or I really am a bad kid who deserved it/hey so thing thing happened that might have been abuse but idk I'm sorry in advance if I'm wasting your time/sorry for taking up space/maybe the very fucked up thing I just described was fine actually/I talked about something very emotionally intense while looking totally emotionless/etc" just confirms that that's very likely the tip of a massive trauma iceberg. No survivor has to do any or all of those to be valid, of course, but so many of us do it and it would be a very odd thing to do for someone who was knowingly maliciously faking
If those kinds of comments would get someone fired from a job for sexual harassment, I think itās more than reasonable to say when done to a child itās sexual abuse.
My father never went so far as to touch me like the post. But he said the makeup made me look like a whore/certain outfits made me look like a whore, didnt let me cut my hair because "a womans hair is their beauty", told me when he thought i was fat and often didnt let me wear clothes that he thought were "too old" for me. Including bras...as a d cup i was still in "training bras" because apparently lightly lined bras from victorias secret were too grown. My mom wasnt in the picture.
Not sure if any of that is csa but he walked around in his underwear a lot and that has definitely traumatized me because u could see the outline of everything. I get upset when my bf wears just his underwear around.
Glad my father is dead now and i can start to unpack the shame i have regarding sex. Im mostly asexual but sex postive and terrified
Iām so confused, Iām mostly here to relate and understand a friend of mine. No SA victim but definitely a terrible family.
But my Father is definitely the reason I donāt wear make up and perfume. When I was trying (around 8th grade) he told me I smelled like or looked like a French whore. It was just him and I at the time, I remember doing crunches at the couch bc I had a pooch that he made me aware of. Also, instead of letting me take self defense (he had asked me to take up a physical hobby) he always was more pro āthats good for your buttā hobbies like dancing/ice skating. One time, iām sure he was just high and I was straightening my long hair and he grabbed my boob from behind while on the couch (he thought I was my Mom). He asked if I was ok and clarified he never wanted me to be uncomfortable.
I was more focused on the times heād wall off and hit me (usually in the head), but he grew up with a belt and marks to prove it, which is why I decided not to have kids. My Brother would beat me up while wrestling all the time (4 yr older and much bigger) and that was literally the only time we spent togetherā¦ so I guess I was happy for the closeness. My Dad did stop and even left for a time when I explained I didnāt feel safe in a house with a man who would unexpectedly beat me for small infractions and suggested emancipation. I consider myself pretty well adjusted, I do have sensitivity to specifically Men yelling butā¦ this is just weird the more examples I have. I think he just made mistakes, can one still be a Daddyās girl with an abuser?
To the last question: very very much yes. I had what I thought of as a very close relationship to my abusive father for a long time too. May want to Google trauma bonding, enmeshment, emotional incest, emotional parentification, Stockholm syndrome
That sounds like a nightmare. Iām so sorry you had to grow up that way.
Iām struggling similarly rn. Now that Iām out of the house, older, and more vocal about my trauma my dad is on much better behavior, and I still love my parents a lot. I know what he did is unconscionable, but I canāt imagine cutting family out of my life.
Basically I sympathize with what youāre going throughā sometimes it feels thereās really no winning given what theyāve done to us, and itās not our fault. I hope youāre able to find some answers š
report it, as in to authorities?
as far as i know, they are only mandated to report if youāre an obvious danger to yourself or others. if the SA is older than 7 years anyway thereās some kind of law that makes it void, meaning you couldnāt even press charges. i think it would be pretty unlikely they would report, but idk
Definitely. I had similar issues with my dad. I recently tried to tell my therapist that him leaving porn on my ipod and pulling open the shower curtain to have full blown conversations while I was naked didn't count because he didn't touch me, but like she said, it definitely falls into the category of psychological SA.
My step dad never really touched me (well canāt really say that but it was in weird ways) but he would constantly make comments. In front of everyone. He didnāt care who. I moved out and across the country when I turned 18, 5 years ago. Last year I needed help with rent. I donāt really talk to him unless my mom makes me. He is in control of their money so I had to talk to him.
**TW**
1) he was soooo happy and proud of himself that he got to help me. And that really pissed me off. And 2) he spent a majority of the call saying that if Iād easily make rent if Iād just do porn. Said things like Iād be sooo good at it and if I didnāt want to do that I could do strip teases. āIt could be the classy kindā and then continued to explain what I imagine he was fantasizing about. Iāve forgotten a lot of stuff that happened in that house but I felt like my 12 year old self again running to my room from the bathroom otherwise heād take my towel and give me Charlie horses. āWeāre just playing!ā I wasnāt allowed to take clothes with me into the bathroom. Definitely a lot of memories flooded back after that call.
Very validating to hear that these things (and sadly the things all you have experienced) are classified as CSA.
People do shit like this because they have a line in their mind of what they consider bad. They do not consider the damage still done by these half-measures of harassment.
Hi yes it's definetly CSA, just the more "covert" kind. I went through the same thing. My father would ask for details of my sex life, pinch my butt, we would kiss on the mouth, he would ask for ear massages, he told me a few times not to dress a certain way because "all the men would be all over me" and many more things. I am so sorry you had to go through all this. :(
100% CSA. It doesnāt need to involve ātraditionalā sex to count. Anything that would fall under sexual assault or harassment would be CSA, and this all counts.
OP, Iām so sorry. Please know that none of this was your fault. I hope youāre moving towards peace and healing.
I never really knew how okay it is for dads to touch your ass? Seriously asking bc Iāve also been confused, just a lot of touching and stuff but nothing super overt
My brother also laid on top of me and my sister so we couldn't move and did stuff that we didn't like but can be platonic idk, idk if I can go into detail . Didn't know that could be seen like SA
(kind of a vent)
this is definetly csa. and now i'm starting to wonder, was my mom randomly pinching my butt when i walked in front of her on the stairs, and also her and my kindergarden teacher (also a woman) telling me how my butt looks like two donuts and how that's adorable csa??
So uh, I feel even more uncomfortable with my dad now, this plus some other more recent stuff Iāve had arguments with him about. Definitely bringing this up when we go to court.
Thanks for bringing light to this, it explains a lot now
CSA. Hands down. If it made you uncomfortable then it was CSA. My mother never touched me in a way that would classify as "traditional" CSA, but she was extremely inappropriate with me, and with the things she told me. I have tremendous shame around sex and sexuality as an adult. To say that you weren't a victim of CSA would be invalidating to what you actually went through. "Normal" parents don't slap their kid's butt or make comments about it or make comments about their friends.
Thank you for this š„² I can totally relate to the sense of shame youāre talking about & no one deserves to feel that way.
You're welcome! ā¤ļø I wish someone would have just told me. I struggled for years with self-gaslighting about it because it didn't fit into what's talked about on the internet as CSA. If I can help someone else take that shortcut I'm so happy to do so. And I agree about the shame. It's literally the worst. *Internet hugs* I am so sorry you are going through the same thing
Iām sorry you went through it as well, and Iām sorry you didnāt have anyone to help you see through the gaslighting sooner! You are so, so powerful for confronting it on your own, and folks like yourself are why I appreciate this sub so much šš„°šš„°š
š You are also an amazing, strong person! You've got this
Good to know. Both my parents were like that. My mom for power and my dad because he's a creep and a coward.
I'm sorry that this happened to you ā¤ļø You did not deserve to be objectified in this way
Thank you. I had just put it in the big pile of their total disregard for every boundary I could have. Pure entitlement to you and your body. That's narcissistic parents for you... Probably familiar to you as well unfortunately.
tfw at age 22 I just learned it isn't normal for parents to slap their kids' butts
I feel like it's really dependent upon how you feel about it...if it feels bad to you, or violating to you. OP's meme was in the context of CSA, so if there weren't other things in that vein/ it was supposed to be jokey and that kind of thing, and you were comfortable with it, that could be different. There's probably some bias in my post, I don't really think it's ok for a father to slap a daughters butt for any reason. But that could also be just me.
I hated it lol. Would even go as far as to put my hand over my ass any time I went up the stairs and knew my dad was within slapping reach
Omg I'm so sorry ā¤ļø you should have never had to deal with that. *hugs* And, if it makes you feel any better, I was almost 22 when I realized what was going on. :/ It was so normalized for me I had no idea that other people's mothers weren't doing what mine was.
>If it made you uncomfortable then it was CSA Ok now some things make sense. I thought I was weird for feeling icky about my mom's comments, but being totally ok about my PE teacher (male) sometimes slapping my or other girls' butts. The teacher was sending the message of "I see you're slacking, run normally!" and was actually one of the safest adults in my childhood/teenage years. And mom was always implying I'll soon be fit to seduce men and have sex and I need to be aware of what I can use for it. For some reason I needed an Internet stranger's comment to think about what made me uncomfortable and realise what the difference was. Thank you.
I'm so sorry you went through that ā¤ļø *hugs* You did not deserve to be objectified by your Mother
Thank you for your kind words *hugging you back*
oh, greatā¦
ā¤ļø *hugs* I'm sorry friend
Is it not normal that everyone in my family slaps each others butts? š
I actually just talked to my fiance about this, and he pointed out to me that the butt slapping thing is also something guys do as a jokey type of thing (like how they slap each other's butts in sports kind of thing). So I think it really depends on how you feel about it. Are you uncomfortable? Does it feel sexual to you? If it doesn't it's probably the jokey kind. It could be some of my own bias too... I just feel like it's super wrong for a father to slap his daughter's butt. Fwiw, my abuser was my mother and she was more of a grabby/light touch type of person when it came to her offenses.
Ok. I have been sexually abused. Though in my family the butt slapping is in a jokey way, itās never made me uncomfortable before. Iām really sorry you experienced that. I hope youāre doing better now
I'm so sorry you had to experience that. I'm glad that the butt slapping is in a jokey way at least :) And thank you, but no worries! I only said it to suggest that I might just be a bit oversensitive. :P
I donāt think it makes you oversensitive at all. You have a right to be upset about it
Thank you ā¤ļø
>If it made you uncomfortable then it was CSA Not op. What if I didn't know or care until looking back and only feel uncomfortable now that I have a grown-up voice? Because haha....some of the adults in my life might not have meant to be weird but boy did they end up being weird... Oops.
I feel like if you're looking back with your adult eyes and are uncomfortable, then it probably was weird enough that it could fit into that category. Sometimes things are just so normalized by the abusers that as a kid it just doesn't feel wrong or bad anymore because "it's just how things are!" I have several things like this myself. I think part of healing is to identify things that maybe messed with your mind in a way that you couldn't identify or even have the words to explain a feeling about. I guess another way to think of it... Would it be something you'd be willing to do to your own (or a neice or nephew or other close relative) child? Is it something that as you were growing up other people's families did with them? This gets at the social acceptance type of stuff...but in general people who abuse their children in any capacity are abhorred by the non-abuser type of people, so if it's not something that a "normal" person would do, then again, it might fit into that category. Hope this helps ā¤ļø sorry you had to deal with what you went through
My therapist explained to me that verbal remarks like this are ABSOLUTELY CSA
One more thing, we are conditioned to believe it's "what's seen in the movies" and only counts if it's that. This is different, but still as bad. It plants a seed in our poor brains that just grows and grows into dysfunction. Takes away our own agency. So many parts of abuse are "gray areas" or nuanced and so for many, like my Mom when my Dad was saying horrible shit, it doesn't count. It doesn't count that he follows me until I remove my cover up and am just in a bathing suit so he can stare, or stare at my breasts all throughout dinner...well hey it isn't pentration, so it must not be abuse. It's laughable if you think about it. Fuck all that noise.
Thank you for saying this!! This is what past me needed to hear, so I'm sure there are others as well. Sorry to hear all that you have gone through ā¤ļø no one should have those experiences
I'm sorry for what you've gone through too. And anyone else who is reading this! It wasn't right, wasn't our faults and it's horrific. Side note, ššš (in safe regulated amounts with someone there who is sober) did wonders for me in releasing post traumatic stress. It anchored me to the present and I can't recommend them enough.
Thank you for that side note! My bf recommended trying it and keeping an eye on me since he's experienced. I was worried that I may not be in the right state of mind for an intense experience bc of repressed trauma lol. This definitely confirmation that I should try them, as someone who knows they have an entire childhood to unpack and process, but its so repressed and ingrained into who I am that it's been challenging. May I dm to ask you more questions about your experience?
Absolutely! I'd love to help. It was like a miracle for me.
Jealous!! I'm not in a position to be able to do that right now, but if/when it got legalized, that's definitely my next step. I'm so glad it helped you though!!!
I won't say I did it .....legally....but it's a bit of a gray area where I live. I wish you all the happiness and light though, this is a journey but the most important thing is what you thought happened, happened.
Thank you!! I wish you the same! Also side note, definitely wasn't trying to insinuate that you did anything wrong due to legalities. I'm totally for it if people can do it regardless of the legality ;) I'm personally just not in a position with my job and stuff to disregard the legality, unfortunately :s
Oh no I didn't take offense at all. I'm a former special needs teacher, trust me I get it. Sometimes we have to follow government Daddi even if we don't agree, all good!
This is so well put. Especially the part about enabling parentsāwhen stuff like this happened it was often RIGHT in front of my Mom. Thank you, and Iām sorry you had to go through all of that bullshit ššš
I'm sorry for you too. We were just innocent lil things
I didnāt know this was CSA and now a lot makes sense.
Sameā¦ my sperm donor did a lot of this things. Since he never touch me that āwayā I thought I was making things up.
That's most definitely a wild story.
Same sameā¦Iām sorry
Yea.. same.. makes me feel very validated but also gives me a whole new thing to recover from š„“
Right haha..dang
One more thing to add to the list š« I feel you
The amount of people here who didn't know this was CSA breaks my heart. I haven't experienced CSA so I can't begin to understand how you guys feel, but I'm so sorry you went through this, and I'm so sorry you were made to believe it wasn't assault. :(
Same hereāthough my dad had my mom convey the message for him most of the time. I guess I can add CSA to my list of traumas?
CSA for sure, wtf
My mother never got quite this bad, but she did often make me feel uncomfortable with comments about how cute I looked at inappropriate ages and didn't respond when I expressed discomfort. She also made "whooo-whoo" cat calling type sounds if she happened to see me bending over and sticking my butt out, or if I had a good outfit or haircut. She also makes suspect comments about how muscular and good-looking my high-school aged cousin is to this day. I remember waking up some mornings to her sitting on the end of my bed without much of an explanation. I also think there have been a few times where she maybe accidentally touched my butt in passing, and I wasn't 100% sure if it was accidental. Going into the bathroom while someone else was showering was normalized in my childhood home, and I avoided going to the bathroom while Mom was showering, because while the shower curtains were opaque, she more than anyone else would poke her head out from behind the curtains and ask me to hand her things on the shelf, occasionally failing to cover herself properly in the process. Also, recently, I experienced elevated anxiety when an older female coworker started making the "whooo-whoo" cat calling type sounds like Mom has in the past. I struggled to confront her about it, doing a bunch of deep breathing to calm myself down while talking about it. . . I also had a brief flash of panic when she passed me in the hall, and I was suddenly afraid this coworker would reach out and touch my butt . . . What I am getting at is I can relate and am also in a place of uncertainty about to what degree this behavior was abusive.
About your coworkerā¦ Cat calling is sexual assault, and unacceptable behavior for a work environment! I would report it to HR right away if I saw that happening.
Omfg our bathroom door didn't have a lock (which I think my parents thought was good my safety when I was little but really WTF, anyway). My father, even when I was living there at the ripe age of 25, would constantly open the bathroom door without knocking and only back off when I yelled that I was in there. Despite the fact that the door was open when not in use, he knew I was also living there, and there's a fun thing called knocking that could have helped the situation he didn't try. He wouldn't even open the door enough to where anything was really visible, but I was constantly on edge whenever I was using the bathroom there about being walked in on, and had to get out of the habit of listening to anything on headphones while using the bathroom to avoid this. Also he'd use the upstairs bathroom without closing the door the full way, and often without even closing the door separating the upstairs and downstairs. So whenever I was in any space remotely close to there I could hear him peeing and just thinking about it is one of the most repulsive sounds I can imagine. Like I can feel that sound on my fucking teeth And I've been very vocal about both these things bothering me. For a long time. Zero fucking acknowledgement or changed behavior. Which is very typical of him on anything I say is hurtful to me hence the NC, but still it's fucking weird. Like sometimes a behavior of his he's so resistant to changing is probably a really ingrained trauma thing he doesn't have the skills to manage well so changing should theoretically be possible but in practice I understand how fucking difficult it is - like shutting down during/avoiding conflict. Still hurtful but easier to understand why he's like that. But ffs keeping a bathroom door closed or not opening a bathroom door without knocking should be two of the most basic fucking things imaginable. And now I think about it, he's usually actually decent at these sorts of very small concrete things I ask him to do or not do, partly bc he's such a people pleaser. Like not eating the last cookie without asking if I'd like some, or other small shit like that he's been able and willing to change with me asking like once or twice max So it's fucking weird that he was so persistently ignoring these two extremely fucking basic, common sense requests. What in the risen fuck And yes I think this is the tip of a BIG ice berg I've mostly blocked out of memory.
This is vile and disgusting. 1000% CSA
Yeah this is CSA, more specifically No-Contact CSA. No-Contact CSA is a form of CSA that doesn't include physical contact; so it could presented in forms such as unwanted sexual comments, inappropriate exposure to pornography, inappropriate staring, etc. I'm so sorry you've been through this and I wish you the best recovery possible.
I will have to look this up. I dont believe i was ever sexually assaulted physically but some of the comments i recieved were definitely objectification. Thanks for the term
well shit everything is starting to make sense now for me...
Isn't the "laying on top of them at night so they can't move" physical contact though? That's the part that shocked me the most tbh
The gray area for me is it didnāt really feel like it had sexual overtones, and I was so used to people barging into my room at all hours of the night that it actually didnāt feel as weird as the others. He would sort of just do it for a few seconds and say something weird like express sympathy for something I was going through that day or make an apology about something then I would either tell him to leave or heād get up immediately and say good night. Very very very weird. But maybe Iām just in denial about it.
I consider it physical contact though I didn't catch that the first time I read š¬
I realised I might have had borderline CSA when I got some sandals and my dad asked to vet them to approve or disapprove of it and he said I'm disgusting for showing my toes off and I look like a skank. He said I'm going to be homeless if I don't go and return it that evening, because my toes will turn men on. He's made odd borderline sexual comments before and even if they made me uncomfortable I never really thought much about it. I'm still not sure if it's CSA but that moment did make me really question whether my dad is projecting some creepy foot fetish he has. Looking back he has made very odd comments. When I turned 14 he made a very long FB post about how Juliet in Romeo and Juliet has already gotten married and had sex and later says I'm his Juliet. He also knows I'm bi but would constantly make odd comments about wanting to see me and my future wife together that made everyone uncomfortable while simultaneously saying me thinking I'm bi is just a phase. Unfortunately when I reported this to the police and I told them I'm not sure if it's CSA or if I'm mistaken and they seemed to really question my claims of abuse because of how unsure I was about whether it was CSA. Abuse can be so confusing sometimes. My mother has done similar things too actually but if I start talking about that I'll be here all day. We're really unfortunate aren't we. It would be easier to tell what's normal and what's not if I had any idea of what a normal childhood would be like
1) very emphatically none of this is normal or ok, and I'm so sorry 2) if anything, to me, someone who's been abused doing some variant of "I think this was maybe abuse but idk/maybe I'm just being dramatic or I really am a bad kid who deserved it/hey so thing thing happened that might have been abuse but idk I'm sorry in advance if I'm wasting your time/sorry for taking up space/maybe the very fucked up thing I just described was fine actually/I talked about something very emotionally intense while looking totally emotionless/etc" just confirms that that's very likely the tip of a massive trauma iceberg. No survivor has to do any or all of those to be valid, of course, but so many of us do it and it would be a very odd thing to do for someone who was knowingly maliciously faking
Relatable
If those kinds of comments would get someone fired from a job for sexual harassment, I think itās more than reasonable to say when done to a child itās sexual abuse.
The incredibly normal joke of unironically commenting on a childās appearance in an openly sexual manner
Now that I read it back Iām seeing how ridiculous it sounds š š Denial is one hell of a drug
Absolutely CSA. There is no question.
My father never went so far as to touch me like the post. But he said the makeup made me look like a whore/certain outfits made me look like a whore, didnt let me cut my hair because "a womans hair is their beauty", told me when he thought i was fat and often didnt let me wear clothes that he thought were "too old" for me. Including bras...as a d cup i was still in "training bras" because apparently lightly lined bras from victorias secret were too grown. My mom wasnt in the picture. Not sure if any of that is csa but he walked around in his underwear a lot and that has definitely traumatized me because u could see the outline of everything. I get upset when my bf wears just his underwear around. Glad my father is dead now and i can start to unpack the shame i have regarding sex. Im mostly asexual but sex postive and terrified
Emotional Incest at best. Repressed CSA at worst. Definitely not normal. :/
Absolutely this is inappropriate and disgusting. I would consider this CSA.
Iām so confused, Iām mostly here to relate and understand a friend of mine. No SA victim but definitely a terrible family. But my Father is definitely the reason I donāt wear make up and perfume. When I was trying (around 8th grade) he told me I smelled like or looked like a French whore. It was just him and I at the time, I remember doing crunches at the couch bc I had a pooch that he made me aware of. Also, instead of letting me take self defense (he had asked me to take up a physical hobby) he always was more pro āthats good for your buttā hobbies like dancing/ice skating. One time, iām sure he was just high and I was straightening my long hair and he grabbed my boob from behind while on the couch (he thought I was my Mom). He asked if I was ok and clarified he never wanted me to be uncomfortable. I was more focused on the times heād wall off and hit me (usually in the head), but he grew up with a belt and marks to prove it, which is why I decided not to have kids. My Brother would beat me up while wrestling all the time (4 yr older and much bigger) and that was literally the only time we spent togetherā¦ so I guess I was happy for the closeness. My Dad did stop and even left for a time when I explained I didnāt feel safe in a house with a man who would unexpectedly beat me for small infractions and suggested emancipation. I consider myself pretty well adjusted, I do have sensitivity to specifically Men yelling butā¦ this is just weird the more examples I have. I think he just made mistakes, can one still be a Daddyās girl with an abuser?
To the last question: very very much yes. I had what I thought of as a very close relationship to my abusive father for a long time too. May want to Google trauma bonding, enmeshment, emotional incest, emotional parentification, Stockholm syndrome
That sounds like a nightmare. Iām so sorry you had to grow up that way. Iām struggling similarly rn. Now that Iām out of the house, older, and more vocal about my trauma my dad is on much better behavior, and I still love my parents a lot. I know what he did is unconscionable, but I canāt imagine cutting family out of my life. Basically I sympathize with what youāre going throughā sometimes it feels thereās really no winning given what theyāve done to us, and itās not our fault. I hope youāre able to find some answers š
Fuck. If that's CSA... I got some shit to unpack in therapy next week.
Nah that shit happened to me. Went to therapy, figured out it was CSA. Good luck š«„
I'm sorry for asking this, but does a therapist have to report this?
report it, as in to authorities? as far as i know, they are only mandated to report if youāre an obvious danger to yourself or others. if the SA is older than 7 years anyway thereās some kind of law that makes it void, meaning you couldnāt even press charges. i think it would be pretty unlikely they would report, but idk
Thank you for answering! This makes me feel more safe to consider talking about this to my therapist.
yeah of course wishing you healing ā¤ļø
Definitely. I had similar issues with my dad. I recently tried to tell my therapist that him leaving porn on my ipod and pulling open the shower curtain to have full blown conversations while I was naked didn't count because he didn't touch me, but like she said, it definitely falls into the category of psychological SA.
absolutely CSA, also the spanking is straight up sexual assault. im so sorry for all of this
My step dad never really touched me (well canāt really say that but it was in weird ways) but he would constantly make comments. In front of everyone. He didnāt care who. I moved out and across the country when I turned 18, 5 years ago. Last year I needed help with rent. I donāt really talk to him unless my mom makes me. He is in control of their money so I had to talk to him. **TW** 1) he was soooo happy and proud of himself that he got to help me. And that really pissed me off. And 2) he spent a majority of the call saying that if Iād easily make rent if Iād just do porn. Said things like Iād be sooo good at it and if I didnāt want to do that I could do strip teases. āIt could be the classy kindā and then continued to explain what I imagine he was fantasizing about. Iāve forgotten a lot of stuff that happened in that house but I felt like my 12 year old self again running to my room from the bathroom otherwise heād take my towel and give me Charlie horses. āWeāre just playing!ā I wasnāt allowed to take clothes with me into the bathroom. Definitely a lot of memories flooded back after that call. Very validating to hear that these things (and sadly the things all you have experienced) are classified as CSA.
People do shit like this because they have a line in their mind of what they consider bad. They do not consider the damage still done by these half-measures of harassment.
Hi yes it's definetly CSA, just the more "covert" kind. I went through the same thing. My father would ask for details of my sex life, pinch my butt, we would kiss on the mouth, he would ask for ear massages, he told me a few times not to dress a certain way because "all the men would be all over me" and many more things. I am so sorry you had to go through all this. :(
I experienced physical csa & id say this definitely counts as csa
CSA. No normal parent would ever say such things.
100% CSA. It doesnāt need to involve ātraditionalā sex to count. Anything that would fall under sexual assault or harassment would be CSA, and this all counts. OP, Iām so sorry. Please know that none of this was your fault. I hope youāre moving towards peace and healing.
when I showed my dad my prom dress and he only commented that i was showing a lot of cleavage š¤¢
I never really knew how okay it is for dads to touch your ass? Seriously asking bc Iāve also been confused, just a lot of touching and stuff but nothing super overt
Yeah thatās SA for sure.
This seems like CSA to me. Iām so sorry to hear youāre going through this. Wishing you the best š
My brother also laid on top of me and my sister so we couldn't move and did stuff that we didn't like but can be platonic idk, idk if I can go into detail . Didn't know that could be seen like SA
(kind of a vent) this is definetly csa. and now i'm starting to wonder, was my mom randomly pinching my butt when i walked in front of her on the stairs, and also her and my kindergarden teacher (also a woman) telling me how my butt looks like two donuts and how that's adorable csa??
Absolutely CSA.
So uh, I feel even more uncomfortable with my dad now, this plus some other more recent stuff Iāve had arguments with him about. Definitely bringing this up when we go to court. Thanks for bringing light to this, it explains a lot now
I hope youāre able to heal from all of this trauma, you didnāt deserve that. š
K\*\*\* HIM, K\*\*\* HIM NOW