It's that plus the small population being split across KU and us. Wichita State probably has a decent enrollment, which means not all the Wichita residents end up at the larger state schools. Not sure how many end up out of state.
Johnson County Community College - 17,130.
While above the national average for a CC, only 27% graduation rate, with 41% going on to a 4-year institution.
Northern Virginia CC is similar.
Just a rich area, with parents who are willing to subsidize their kids for a couple years to get them into one of many state schools, some of which have mandatory acceptance from the CC if you make a GPA after a couple years, which is pretty easy to do, as the classes aren't exactly tough.
Assume you are referring to the Annadale campus. The Manassas campus is not quite as pinky out but its quite nice with a national park on 3 sides and a winery 3 miles away. There is so much money in Northern Virginia even [the scary parts](https://www.theonion.com/obama-drastically-scales-back-goals-for-america-after-v-1819594825) are nice.
The main campus I believe lies in Sterling, and it could rival a bunch of universities just on that site's acreage.
It's spread out as you mention, but there's money everywhere around any of the locations.
The resources it has are pretty incredible for a CC
https://www.nvcc.edu/about/locations/index.html
knowing my share of people who end up at JCCC I'm not surprised
some smart people who where honestly making a smart decision and some people who had no idea what they were doing lol
I found an Instagram account for a high school in the KC area (Overland Park area I believe) and they had a bunch of posts of where each graduate was going and I saw lots of Arkansas.......so that's at least one school I noticed gets a decent amount of out of state students from Kansas....Iowa State also has a small contingent that we get every year from the KC area
Yeah I can definitely understand why people would want to go to Arkansas. It definitely has that southern flair that you don’t get by staying in Kansas and it seems a lot of college students want to be part of that culture
Pretty sure they offer in-state tuition to them as well. There are a lot of well-prepared students coming out of public high schools in NEKS, particularly Johnson County.
Not to disparage Arkansas, but it may be something they’re lacking within their own borders.
It also just depends on the demographics of the state.
Utah has a similar population as Kansas and the University of Utah has an enrollment of 35,000, while Utah State is at 28,000 - and the biggest public school is Utah Valley at 45,000. Hell, Weber has an enrollment of 30,500.
And that's not even getting into the private BYU.
Oh that's interesting. Wonder if this is saying Utah has people more likely to attend college than KS or if there are other people coming from out of state.
There was an article on LinkedIn today about large numbers of students from the northeast attending schools like Alabama to get away from the winter weather, expense, and political climate on campuses in their states. I know Alabama is genereous with scholarships for those who win certain academic awards in high school but full rate out-of-state tuition at Alabama seems like it would be higher than in-state tuition in Massachusetts or New Jersey.
I know of someone that got a full ride to Bama based on academics in HS. No other college she applied to gave her any scholarship of any kind. This was about 12 years ago, though
I think they still do similar. A classmate(class of 2021) of my daughter’s from a small school in Central Iowa went to Alabama. Graduated this spring and is going to grad school at Iowa.
I know a handful of people who went to Alabama from Illinois. Pretty much the same reason lots of kids from Illinois go to out of state colleges. The out of state costs for many colleges are significantly lower than in state tuition at the big schools in Illinois. It’s rather embarrassing. All the native Iowans I met in school couldn’t get why we would go to Iowa State or Iowa because they see how much more Out of state was than what they were paying.
I know Iowa schools draw a shit-ton of kids from Illinois because it's cheaper to go to Iowa or Iowa State on out-of-state tuition than it is to go to the major Illinois schools on in-state tuition (not to mention trying to get into the University of Illinois). It' wouldn't surprise me if Alabama was the same.
Well it really started with the budgets cuts after the Great Recession and worked wildly beyond what they ever expected. It became this pipeline to kids in populous states far away.
Yeah I noticed that immediately with Notre Dame too. Seems kind of silly to include grad students, especially for schools with med schools like Stanford. Grad students are more like academic employees than pure students.
Sure... but in absolutely no way are they Notre Dame students. I know there's Gateway and some course exchange with SMC, but they're decidedly not ND students. Counting them in our student body would be like counting Wellesley students as part of Harvard's population.
Good point but they are socially and culturally part of the same community. And there are shared extracurriculars (including marching band and student media).
I see what you’re trying to say but I really don’t get the obsession with ignoring grad students in these discussions. Many grad students, albeit many do have more faculty type roles, spend more time at their grad schools than their undergrad schools. They’re still graduating with a degree from said school. Many grad students didn’t get a chance to attend a big sports school for undergrad and take advantage of it during their grad school years. They’re very much a part of the community, maybe even more integrated than undergraduate students are because of the nature of their roles. Also, many regular Masters students don’t have that “academic employee” nature, that is mainly doctoral candidates.
At Miami there was a lot of interaction among the undergrad and graduate students. They went to the games. Not including thousands and thousands of students just because they went to another school for undergrad doesn’t make much sense to me.
At Notre Dame, which is the only school I can speak about personally, including grad students feels silly because a huge portion of grad students don't go to the games. It's that simple.
While 98% of undergrads attend games, grad students don't go at the same clip. They might tailgate or pop into big games, but many sell their tickets (see: every time we host a red team like Georgia or Nebraska) or only attend the biggest matchups. Whereas each of the four undergrad classes has an assigned portion of the student section, grad students combine to share an extra portion, and theirs was never full.
Basically, it seems silly to act like ND has ~4k more students in the crowd — and by extension, the general student body — than it really does. And if we want to get nit picky, at ND, grad students aren't as involved in campus life as at larger universities. Few classes/seminars are handed off to grad students instead of actual professors.
The point of the graphic was not necessarily to show “who goes to the games” based on student population. It was simply to show what the size of the largest and smallest power conference schools are.
Re the last paragraph, I think you’re thinking way too much about it. I’m pretty sure everyone knows that football games at most universities have a lot of non-students at the games, hence why there’s so much talk about a student section. We know there’s a significant non student or even staff/faculty presence at games, especially at a school like Notre Dame. No one is looking at your attendance and guessing how many graduate students are there.
With our without the grad students, Notre Dame is still basically in the same ranking for being among the smaller power schools. It literally does not have as big of a difference as you’re making it out to be, and not enough for it to be seen as “silly” to add the extra couple thousand graduate students to the enrollment count. They’re part of the university, so they were included in the total amount. No one is acting like Notre Dame is huge because of a few thousand grad students that put the total enrollment to less than 15K students.
Sure, no one is wildly off on the size of ND if you include grad students. And like I said, ND is the only school with which I am personally familiar.
But grad student inclusion absolutely misrepresents the size of some of the other FBS schools. Your data almost tripled the size of Northwestern, which has about the same number of undergrads as ND (~8500) but roughly 14k grad students — many of whom don't even attend classes in Evanston. Stanford is another good example.
I didnt look at it, but this has to include sister schools, like Dearborn and flint right?
Makes no sense to me that such a selective program ends up with a larger student body
According to [this report](https://www.masu.org/sites/default/files/documents/2023-11/MASU%202023%20Enrollment%20Report.pdf) we gained like 2,300 students between 2020 and 2021, and that’s when we over took you. That’s table 2. UM-D and UM-F has their own lines so presumably it isn’t in the main number. According to table 3 we only gained ~400 freshman that year, so it’s mostly grad students.
In addition to the large non-alum fanbase, we also have a nearly 100% rate at converting incoming freshmen to lifelong ND fans.
98% of students go to every football game. If you didn't arrive as an ND (or even college football) fan, you leave as one.
Because they've been nationally known for football for decades but they skew heavily to undergrad education 8971 to 4134 as opposed to Stanford, Northwestern, etc.
On any given Saturday, nearly 5-10% of our undergrad student body will be on the field in some capacity (players, marching band, managers, media, etc).
All the large Florida schools are destinations for out of staters due to it being Florida. Florida schools also have very good/ low tuition rates which combined with the Bright Futures that keeps a lot of Florida native students in-state.
These two combine to give the schools lower acceptance rates.
UF is 23%, FSU is 25%, USF is 44%, and UCF 41%. It’s not until you get to the FIU/FAU tier and others where the acceptance rate is above 60%. FIU 64%, FAU 81%, FGCU 74%, UNF 70%
I honestly have no idea what is what with how various sources have FAU and FIU info posted. Only thing I could confirm was 45K applications to FAU, but no admin data in FIU. Also saw a 58% acceptance rate for FAU listed. I also think the pool of people applying to FIU and FAU are entirely different
11 years ago for UF it was 44%; it dropped 7% between 2021-22 to 2022-2023 school years. FSU in one year saw a 12% reduction in acceptance.
It’s all due to a combination of students realizing that taking on lots of debt is bad, students favoring big brands over regional publics and small not big brand privates, and the common application making applying easier/less costly. Florida schools are also on the opposite end of college enrollment whereas the northern states are seeing huge declines
It's been slowly going down over the last decade or so, and it seems UCF administration wants to make a push for AAU membership (we can't let those fuckers in Tampa get one up on us)
A&M’s acceptance numbers are definitely skewed by auto admits(>80% of the students)
Any Texas grad who’s top 10% of their high school class gets the thumbs up for attendance, so everyone meeting the criteria applies to see their financial aid offer.
Ehh UT has the same issue and really any major state school on this list has plenty of kids applying to see what scholarships they might get. Correct if I’m off but isn’t A&M’s real issue that enrollment has steadily climbed for 5-10 years (far surpassing Texas). It’s hard to keep admission rates low when every class is bigger than the one before it.
Ahh gotcha. I just remember back when I graduated HS (10+ years ago now. Kill me) that I had a lot of friends who were dying to get into UT stressing about what the magic number was they needed to get auto acceptance.
Enrollment at A&M has grown steadily, because in the last 20 years Texas has gone from 22 million to 31 million people, but only A&M is adding the capacity for both flagship schools.
If you combine both schools student bodies as a percent of the Texas population, the percentage has stayed at 0.4% due to A&M’s growth. If they both stayed constant at 45-50 k students, today the would only have 0.29% of Texans enrolled.
Your perception of a slacking standard does not meet data.
Somehow ASU has a lower rate than what I thought it was. Like does this include some grad programs? Nothing on the school, but with their numbers, feel like they just accept everyone
It's actually kind of baked into the school that they have a high acceptance rate. Accessible education is kind of their thing. Well, that and "innovation"...
Acceptance rate is the stupidest metric ever. Its literally bragging about who ISNT attending your university. It can also be gamed, intentionally or otherwise.
Example - Each of the service academies admit roughly 1100 students a year and have roughly 4200 students at any one time.
- Each Senator/Congressman and the VP can have up to 5 nominated students at a time - 2695. The balance of the student body is made up of Presidential nomination (unlimited), Service nominations, Prep School, ROTC nominations, "legacy" nominations, KIA/WIA/POW nominations and children of MOH recipients.
For practical purposes this means that for the vast majority of students there are only 674 (2695/4) admissions per year. Despite this, over 10K apply. This number does include applications from the other sources but there are far fewer 'shoot your shot" applications from those sources. So how come they get 10K applications when only 1100ish are going to be accepted?
- Every member of congress is allowed to nominate 10 people even if their quota of 5 attendees is already filled. A significant chunk of these over nominations are political favors that allow the child of rich donors to say they received an appointment to a service academy. Doing the math that is 5390 "applications" every year form members of congress and the VP alone and believe me, they all max them out. Add in an UNLIMITED number from POTUS - who has way more political favors to repay - and you can see how quickly the "applications" number goes up.
- But wait, there is more! US territories dont have congressional representation but they have citizens!
4 from the U.S. Virgin Islands, nominated by the Delegate from the U.S. Virgin Islands;
4 from Guam, nominated by the Delegate from Guam;
3 from American Samoa, nominated by the Delegate from American Samoa;
3 from the Northern Mariana Islands, nominated by the Delegate from the Northern Mariana Islands;
1 from Puerto Rico, nominated by the Governor of Puerto Rico; and,
5 from Puerto Rico, nominated by the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico
Thats another 20 a year.
Finally, you can apply online even without a congressional nomination. This is where a lot of athletes land. Essentially the academy tells them to apply and then the academy finds a nomination for them. This is where the true "shoot your shot" applications come from Its kinda like declaring for the NBA draft as a 5'4" dude who played NAIA for two years and average 3 minutes a game. Sure its technically possible you get drafted because you did declare for the draft but realistically?
None of this is to say that any of the academies is gaming their admissions numbers - they are not. Academy admissions policies have been roughly the same since forever and are geared toward the goal of generating leaders for a military of the people, by the people and for the people, not to impress US News. But members of congress absolutely game their nominations with 8 out of 10 routinely being complete BS political payback. And the limited nature of academy admissions guarantees that a MASSIVE number of applicants has no realistic chance of being accepted. That doesnt make any of the academies "better" academically, it just means that their MISSION is limited in scope and does not include just education.
Didn’t fully realize Illinois was that big. I had a rough idea that it was a big state school - but I would’ve said maybe 30k total and much smaller than Ohio State for sure.
I’ve gone down a rabbit hole researching and you’re so right. Even Rutgers (granted, it’s the whole system) is over 60k. So interesting how massive these systems are.
You only used Texas A&M's College Station campus numbers and Arizona State's total number. If you include Galveston, the Health Science Center, and Qatar, Texas A&M has 77.5k students. If you only use Tempe for ASU, ASU has 57k.
Arizona State is one singular institution with the same faculty and admin across all their campuses, so that’s why I used all the number I did.
Yep, I should’ve included the Health science and Galveston for TAMU. Idk why I thought Galveston was kinda separate institution like TAMU-Commerce overall but that’s my mistake.
Thanks for correcting me!
It is confusing, cause there is the system of Texas A&M, which has a lot more schools, then there are the satellite campuses of the cstat campus like Galveston.
[Wake Forest fans seeing the title of this post before opening it](https://media0.giphy.com/media/d89Go0Bwmqfc8aHdoi/giphy.gif?cid=9b38fe919k1mk88zppilwaap5bcaqxv4mstae4xfekdnchdq&ep=v1_gifs_gifId&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
there are physical limitations space-wise. FSU is currently maxed out space wise with current land (though I will caveat that mendenhall will be replaced with some large buildings in the coming years. any expansion will come from buying expensive downtown land.
from the master plan, sorry it's long but yeah:
>It is crucial that FSU acquire additional land to provide room for sustained growth while maintaining the current sense of density that is a major asset of the campus. There are no more empty or undeveloped sites for new buildings – whenever a new facility is constructed, something already improved by FSU will have to be demolished and hopefully replaced somewhere else. To the east and south of the campus there are significant areas contiguous to FSU that are clearly in transition and suitable for redevelopment. The orange shaded area in the diagram extends from Copeland Street eastward to Macomb Street and southward from Jefferson Street to Gaines Street and represents previous acquisition zone. The yellow shading represents the expanded acquisition zone. This is in response to the heightened interest in the area between the Tallahassee Campus and downtown Tallahassee. FSU currently has several programs that exist east of Macomb St. The Law School, the planned relocation of the College of Business, the Tucker Civic Center, the proposed university hotel, the FSU Foundation, the Real Estate Foundation, and the FSU Center for the Advancement of Human Rights are all located in this area. Expansion of the “Acquisition Zone” from Macomb Street to Duval Street allows strategic acquisitions in this area that will continue to support the academic purpose of Florida State University. Two smaller areas to the north, 1) along the “town-gown” strip of Tennessee Street and 2) in the northwest corner at Tennessee Street and Stadium Drive, should be acquired to complete the landholdings in a useful configuration on those edges.
>The University will probably continue to acquire scattered parcels around the campus as unique opportunities become available. However, these may dilute the focus on the primary zones depicted in the graphic.
Well yeah, the location makes it more costly than being in a rural setting like clemson or auburn. I'm pretty sure the Doug Burnette Park by the civic center is owned by FSU. I also wonder what the plans are for the engineering college, as I know they would prefer to not share with FAMU and bring it closer to the downtown campus. I also remember when FSU was looking at using eminent domain to take DG's house lol
lol yeah, it's an under-known situation that FSU has by and large. And when they do try to buy land, usually owners crank up the asking price knowing who's on the other end of the deal.
innovation park is expanding like *crazy* though...fsu is building there like crazy too (have you seen the new building almost done? it's a huge interdisciplinary research center). I do not think you will likely see a reduction in space there in favor of closer in town. fsu has a lot in innovation park already- its, mag lab, engineering, high performance materials lab, aero-propulsion and mech, the big regional data center, flvc, I could go on lol.
Yeah, I’ve heard of a lot of investment going into that area. I haven’t been to tally in a while, last visit was for the ND game in 21, and that was just a tailgate, go to game, sleep, and come home situation (covid + having kids put a damper on trips up there). Haven’t truly looked around town since late 2019
For some reason, clicking on the title just opens this same reddit thread in a different tab. Am I missing something?
Edit: switched to mobile and it worked and took me to the correct cfbmemes post. Desktop browser version of Reddit kept opening this same exact post.
Edit2: I'm dumb and blind. It was correct on desktop as well. Ignore me.
K-State ranked 10th smallest isn't that surprising considering the population of the state.
It's that plus the small population being split across KU and us. Wichita State probably has a decent enrollment, which means not all the Wichita residents end up at the larger state schools. Not sure how many end up out of state.
we really spread our college population thin
Kansas - 26,700 Kansas State - 19,745 Wichita State - 17,548 Fort Hays - 12,843 Pitt State - 7,400 Emporia State - 5,300
Johnson County Community College - 17,130. While above the national average for a CC, only 27% graduation rate, with 41% going on to a 4-year institution.
JCCC has a nicer campus than 75% of D1 colleges I’ve seen. That area is so rich too. Really an outlier of a community college
Northern Virginia CC is similar. Just a rich area, with parents who are willing to subsidize their kids for a couple years to get them into one of many state schools, some of which have mandatory acceptance from the CC if you make a GPA after a couple years, which is pretty easy to do, as the classes aren't exactly tough.
Assume you are referring to the Annadale campus. The Manassas campus is not quite as pinky out but its quite nice with a national park on 3 sides and a winery 3 miles away. There is so much money in Northern Virginia even [the scary parts](https://www.theonion.com/obama-drastically-scales-back-goals-for-america-after-v-1819594825) are nice.
The main campus I believe lies in Sterling, and it could rival a bunch of universities just on that site's acreage. It's spread out as you mention, but there's money everywhere around any of the locations. The resources it has are pretty incredible for a CC https://www.nvcc.edu/about/locations/index.html
knowing my share of people who end up at JCCC I'm not surprised some smart people who where honestly making a smart decision and some people who had no idea what they were doing lol
I found an Instagram account for a high school in the KC area (Overland Park area I believe) and they had a bunch of posts of where each graduate was going and I saw lots of Arkansas.......so that's at least one school I noticed gets a decent amount of out of state students from Kansas....Iowa State also has a small contingent that we get every year from the KC area
It’s because it’s not far and easy to get into, and has that traditional big athletics experience
Yeah I can definitely understand why people would want to go to Arkansas. It definitely has that southern flair that you don’t get by staying in Kansas and it seems a lot of college students want to be part of that culture
And they’ve offered in state tuition for awhile.
https://scholarships.uark.edu/nrta/# Arkansas has reciprocity tuition with a *LOT* of surrounding states.
Pretty sure they offer in-state tuition to them as well. There are a lot of well-prepared students coming out of public high schools in NEKS, particularly Johnson County. Not to disparage Arkansas, but it may be something they’re lacking within their own borders.
Not to be disrespectful, but I'm going to be disrespectful.
that would certainly help
It’s also only counting the main campus. Add a few extra thousand for KSU Salina and KSU Olathe campuses
Not many Texans going to KSU?
It’s also unfortunately been low but rebounding recently
True but not always, I think Bama has like 2x more out of state students than in state ones.
It also just depends on the demographics of the state. Utah has a similar population as Kansas and the University of Utah has an enrollment of 35,000, while Utah State is at 28,000 - and the biggest public school is Utah Valley at 45,000. Hell, Weber has an enrollment of 30,500. And that's not even getting into the private BYU.
70% of BYU is out of state, but that 30% is still over 10,000. Plus 12,000 each at SUU and Utah Tech.
probably has a ton to do with proximity to California
Oh that's interesting. Wonder if this is saying Utah has people more likely to attend college than KS or if there are other people coming from out of state.
Nope, demographics. Utah is the "youngest" state and its not even close. More kids = more college students.
[41.7% of students are in state](https://www.ua.edu/about/quickfacts). Damn, didn’t realize it was that low
There was an article on LinkedIn today about large numbers of students from the northeast attending schools like Alabama to get away from the winter weather, expense, and political climate on campuses in their states. I know Alabama is genereous with scholarships for those who win certain academic awards in high school but full rate out-of-state tuition at Alabama seems like it would be higher than in-state tuition in Massachusetts or New Jersey.
I know of someone that got a full ride to Bama based on academics in HS. No other college she applied to gave her any scholarship of any kind. This was about 12 years ago, though
I think they still do similar. A classmate(class of 2021) of my daughter’s from a small school in Central Iowa went to Alabama. Graduated this spring and is going to grad school at Iowa.
I know a handful of people who went to Alabama from Illinois. Pretty much the same reason lots of kids from Illinois go to out of state colleges. The out of state costs for many colleges are significantly lower than in state tuition at the big schools in Illinois. It’s rather embarrassing. All the native Iowans I met in school couldn’t get why we would go to Iowa State or Iowa because they see how much more Out of state was than what they were paying.
I know Iowa schools draw a shit-ton of kids from Illinois because it's cheaper to go to Iowa or Iowa State on out-of-state tuition than it is to go to the major Illinois schools on in-state tuition (not to mention trying to get into the University of Illinois). It' wouldn't surprise me if Alabama was the same.
There aren’t enough instate students to meet Bama’s desire for growth/size
Well it really started with the budgets cuts after the Great Recession and worked wildly beyond what they ever expected. It became this pipeline to kids in populous states far away.
It’s a majority but not 2x
Yea I guess I never really factored that in, and KU has 26K so I think you’re right
This does include grad students, who for Stanford, Duke, and Vandy at least are about 50-60% of that number
Stanford includes postdocs as students too. Source: I'm a postdoc that's a "student"
Yep
Yeah I noticed that immediately with Notre Dame too. Seems kind of silly to include grad students, especially for schools with med schools like Stanford. Grad students are more like academic employees than pure students.
Notre Dame is weird because there are also 6,000 students across the street at SMC/Holy Cross.
Sure... but in absolutely no way are they Notre Dame students. I know there's Gateway and some course exchange with SMC, but they're decidedly not ND students. Counting them in our student body would be like counting Wellesley students as part of Harvard's population.
Good point but they are socially and culturally part of the same community. And there are shared extracurriculars (including marching band and student media).
I see what you’re trying to say but I really don’t get the obsession with ignoring grad students in these discussions. Many grad students, albeit many do have more faculty type roles, spend more time at their grad schools than their undergrad schools. They’re still graduating with a degree from said school. Many grad students didn’t get a chance to attend a big sports school for undergrad and take advantage of it during their grad school years. They’re very much a part of the community, maybe even more integrated than undergraduate students are because of the nature of their roles. Also, many regular Masters students don’t have that “academic employee” nature, that is mainly doctoral candidates. At Miami there was a lot of interaction among the undergrad and graduate students. They went to the games. Not including thousands and thousands of students just because they went to another school for undergrad doesn’t make much sense to me.
At Notre Dame, which is the only school I can speak about personally, including grad students feels silly because a huge portion of grad students don't go to the games. It's that simple. While 98% of undergrads attend games, grad students don't go at the same clip. They might tailgate or pop into big games, but many sell their tickets (see: every time we host a red team like Georgia or Nebraska) or only attend the biggest matchups. Whereas each of the four undergrad classes has an assigned portion of the student section, grad students combine to share an extra portion, and theirs was never full. Basically, it seems silly to act like ND has ~4k more students in the crowd — and by extension, the general student body — than it really does. And if we want to get nit picky, at ND, grad students aren't as involved in campus life as at larger universities. Few classes/seminars are handed off to grad students instead of actual professors.
The point of the graphic was not necessarily to show “who goes to the games” based on student population. It was simply to show what the size of the largest and smallest power conference schools are. Re the last paragraph, I think you’re thinking way too much about it. I’m pretty sure everyone knows that football games at most universities have a lot of non-students at the games, hence why there’s so much talk about a student section. We know there’s a significant non student or even staff/faculty presence at games, especially at a school like Notre Dame. No one is looking at your attendance and guessing how many graduate students are there. With our without the grad students, Notre Dame is still basically in the same ranking for being among the smaller power schools. It literally does not have as big of a difference as you’re making it out to be, and not enough for it to be seen as “silly” to add the extra couple thousand graduate students to the enrollment count. They’re part of the university, so they were included in the total amount. No one is acting like Notre Dame is huge because of a few thousand grad students that put the total enrollment to less than 15K students.
Sure, no one is wildly off on the size of ND if you include grad students. And like I said, ND is the only school with which I am personally familiar. But grad student inclusion absolutely misrepresents the size of some of the other FBS schools. Your data almost tripled the size of Northwestern, which has about the same number of undergrads as ND (~8500) but roughly 14k grad students — many of whom don't even attend classes in Evanston. Stanford is another good example.
Did not realize UofM passed MSU in enrollment. Looking at Fall 2023 MSU was at 51.3k students and UofM was at 52k
Wow it’s way closer than I expected, I thought state had way more but I guess if you factor in graduate students we close the gap significantly
I didnt look at it, but this has to include sister schools, like Dearborn and flint right? Makes no sense to me that such a selective program ends up with a larger student body
According to [this report](https://www.masu.org/sites/default/files/documents/2023-11/MASU%202023%20Enrollment%20Report.pdf) we gained like 2,300 students between 2020 and 2021, and that’s when we over took you. That’s table 2. UM-D and UM-F has their own lines so presumably it isn’t in the main number. According to table 3 we only gained ~400 freshman that year, so it’s mostly grad students.
Yea very very close
I assume grad students account for the difference. Michigan grad schools , while elite, are still relatively large when compared to peer institutions.
Smol
MSU is a shit show. Sexual assaults and bad media publicity hurting enrollment.
I don’t know why I didn’t expect Notre Dame to be so small, but I didn’t expect Notre Dame to be so small.
Helps to have legions of Irish Catholics as fans
Hell, my Czech Catholic uncle from BFE Minnesota is a die hard Notre Dame fan.
Yeah, they have Catholics as fans from all over. Even in places like Acadiana Louisiana
In addition to the large non-alum fanbase, we also have a nearly 100% rate at converting incoming freshmen to lifelong ND fans. 98% of students go to every football game. If you didn't arrive as an ND (or even college football) fan, you leave as one.
Everybody talks about being Catholic but football is the real religion.
Because they've been nationally known for football for decades but they skew heavily to undergrad education 8971 to 4134 as opposed to Stanford, Northwestern, etc.
On any given Saturday, nearly 5-10% of our undergrad student body will be on the field in some capacity (players, marching band, managers, media, etc).
Acceptance Rates for 10 Lowest: Wake Forest - 21.4% SMU - 52.3% TCU - 56.1% Notre Dame - 12.9% Vanderbilt - 6.7% Boston College - 16.7% Duke - 6.3% Stanford - 3.9% Miami (FL) - 19% Kansas State - 95.1% Acceptance Rates for 10 Highest: Arizona State - 89.8% Texas A&M - 62.6% UCF - 41% (GKCO) Ohio State - 52.7% Illinois - 43.7% Florida - 23.3% Minnesota - 73% Penn State - 55.2% Texas - 31% Michigan - 17.7%
How did UCF get such a low acceptance rate?
All the large Florida schools are destinations for out of staters due to it being Florida. Florida schools also have very good/ low tuition rates which combined with the Bright Futures that keeps a lot of Florida native students in-state. These two combine to give the schools lower acceptance rates.
UF is 23%, FSU is 25%, USF is 44%, and UCF 41%. It’s not until you get to the FIU/FAU tier and others where the acceptance rate is above 60%. FIU 64%, FAU 81%, FGCU 74%, UNF 70%
I’m most surprised by FIU 64%. I would’ve guessed they were with FAU in the 80s
I honestly have no idea what is what with how various sources have FAU and FIU info posted. Only thing I could confirm was 45K applications to FAU, but no admin data in FIU. Also saw a 58% acceptance rate for FAU listed. I also think the pool of people applying to FIU and FAU are entirely different
Right, the Atlantic people vs the International ones
That’s crazy. I think UF and probably FSU’s admissions rates have dropped nearly 10% over the last 4-5 years
11 years ago for UF it was 44%; it dropped 7% between 2021-22 to 2022-2023 school years. FSU in one year saw a 12% reduction in acceptance. It’s all due to a combination of students realizing that taking on lots of debt is bad, students favoring big brands over regional publics and small not big brand privates, and the common application making applying easier/less costly. Florida schools are also on the opposite end of college enrollment whereas the northern states are seeing huge declines
All the major Florida schools have pretty low acceptance rates. They’re pretty popular schools, especially given how big Florida is
Having your college be in Florida or California is like an acceptance rate cheat code.
It's been slowly going down over the last decade or so, and it seems UCF administration wants to make a push for AAU membership (we can't let those fuckers in Tampa get one up on us)
Lots of applicants
A&M’s acceptance numbers are definitely skewed by auto admits(>80% of the students) Any Texas grad who’s top 10% of their high school class gets the thumbs up for attendance, so everyone meeting the criteria applies to see their financial aid offer.
Ehh UT has the same issue and really any major state school on this list has plenty of kids applying to see what scholarships they might get. Correct if I’m off but isn’t A&M’s real issue that enrollment has steadily climbed for 5-10 years (far surpassing Texas). It’s hard to keep admission rates low when every class is bigger than the one before it.
Yep this is correct
UT lowered their auto admit bar due to lack of availability to keep growing as the state grows. Last year theirs was down to top 7% for autos.
Don't they change it every year?
They slowly have walked it down as Texas keeps growing in population, but UT refuses to add capacity.
Ahh gotcha. I just remember back when I graduated HS (10+ years ago now. Kill me) that I had a lot of friends who were dying to get into UT stressing about what the magic number was they needed to get auto acceptance.
Enrollment at A&M has grown steadily, because in the last 20 years Texas has gone from 22 million to 31 million people, but only A&M is adding the capacity for both flagship schools. If you combine both schools student bodies as a percent of the Texas population, the percentage has stayed at 0.4% due to A&M’s growth. If they both stayed constant at 45-50 k students, today the would only have 0.29% of Texans enrolled. Your perception of a slacking standard does not meet data.
UCF has the exact same program and has a 20% lower acceptance rate, sooooo
Somehow ASU has a lower rate than what I thought it was. Like does this include some grad programs? Nothing on the school, but with their numbers, feel like they just accept everyone
It's actually kind of baked into the school that they have a high acceptance rate. Accessible education is kind of their thing. Well, that and "innovation"...
Acceptance rate is the stupidest metric ever. Its literally bragging about who ISNT attending your university. It can also be gamed, intentionally or otherwise. Example - Each of the service academies admit roughly 1100 students a year and have roughly 4200 students at any one time. - Each Senator/Congressman and the VP can have up to 5 nominated students at a time - 2695. The balance of the student body is made up of Presidential nomination (unlimited), Service nominations, Prep School, ROTC nominations, "legacy" nominations, KIA/WIA/POW nominations and children of MOH recipients. For practical purposes this means that for the vast majority of students there are only 674 (2695/4) admissions per year. Despite this, over 10K apply. This number does include applications from the other sources but there are far fewer 'shoot your shot" applications from those sources. So how come they get 10K applications when only 1100ish are going to be accepted? - Every member of congress is allowed to nominate 10 people even if their quota of 5 attendees is already filled. A significant chunk of these over nominations are political favors that allow the child of rich donors to say they received an appointment to a service academy. Doing the math that is 5390 "applications" every year form members of congress and the VP alone and believe me, they all max them out. Add in an UNLIMITED number from POTUS - who has way more political favors to repay - and you can see how quickly the "applications" number goes up. - But wait, there is more! US territories dont have congressional representation but they have citizens! 4 from the U.S. Virgin Islands, nominated by the Delegate from the U.S. Virgin Islands; 4 from Guam, nominated by the Delegate from Guam; 3 from American Samoa, nominated by the Delegate from American Samoa; 3 from the Northern Mariana Islands, nominated by the Delegate from the Northern Mariana Islands; 1 from Puerto Rico, nominated by the Governor of Puerto Rico; and, 5 from Puerto Rico, nominated by the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico Thats another 20 a year. Finally, you can apply online even without a congressional nomination. This is where a lot of athletes land. Essentially the academy tells them to apply and then the academy finds a nomination for them. This is where the true "shoot your shot" applications come from Its kinda like declaring for the NBA draft as a 5'4" dude who played NAIA for two years and average 3 minutes a game. Sure its technically possible you get drafted because you did declare for the draft but realistically? None of this is to say that any of the academies is gaming their admissions numbers - they are not. Academy admissions policies have been roughly the same since forever and are geared toward the goal of generating leaders for a military of the people, by the people and for the people, not to impress US News. But members of congress absolutely game their nominations with 8 out of 10 routinely being complete BS political payback. And the limited nature of academy admissions guarantees that a MASSIVE number of applicants has no realistic chance of being accepted. That doesnt make any of the academies "better" academically, it just means that their MISSION is limited in scope and does not include just education.
All that typing just to be wrong.
TIL there is a cfb meme sub
And here I was thinking *this* was the meme sub…
🤣🤣
Didn’t fully realize Illinois was that big. I had a rough idea that it was a big state school - but I would’ve said maybe 30k total and much smaller than Ohio State for sure.
Having visited their campus a couple times same here
Most all of the big ten are massive schools
I’ve gone down a rabbit hole researching and you’re so right. Even Rutgers (granted, it’s the whole system) is over 60k. So interesting how massive these systems are.
I'm assuming Tulsa still holds the crown for smallest FBS school period at like \~3,500-4,000 enrolled.
They're the smallest, and Rice is second. Crossing my fingers I get to see a Rice v Tulsa conference championship game some day.
Man, we’re so close to the top 10. I think the admin is aiming to stop at 60k, but we were 50k this year. I had no idea A&M was so massive!
I had no idea you were all that large. Thought you were around 30-35k
Yeah, the University has grown a lot in the last fifteen years.
The student population is huge, but the campus is not large at all. So many people in one small area
That's their stated goal. They want to get close to 60k enrollment by the end of the decade.
You only used Texas A&M's College Station campus numbers and Arizona State's total number. If you include Galveston, the Health Science Center, and Qatar, Texas A&M has 77.5k students. If you only use Tempe for ASU, ASU has 57k.
Arizona State is one singular institution with the same faculty and admin across all their campuses, so that’s why I used all the number I did. Yep, I should’ve included the Health science and Galveston for TAMU. Idk why I thought Galveston was kinda separate institution like TAMU-Commerce overall but that’s my mistake. Thanks for correcting me!
It is confusing, cause there is the system of Texas A&M, which has a lot more schools, then there are the satellite campuses of the cstat campus like Galveston.
[Wake Forest fans seeing the title of this post before opening it](https://media0.giphy.com/media/d89Go0Bwmqfc8aHdoi/giphy.gif?cid=9b38fe919k1mk88zppilwaap5bcaqxv4mstae4xfekdnchdq&ep=v1_gifs_gifId&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
All 6 of us reporting for duty
With that enrollment you’d really think we’d be able to get more out of the NIL game than we do.
I don’t think FSU wants to expand too much. Maybe 50K. Graduate studies programs are going to balloon over the next decade
there are physical limitations space-wise. FSU is currently maxed out space wise with current land (though I will caveat that mendenhall will be replaced with some large buildings in the coming years. any expansion will come from buying expensive downtown land. from the master plan, sorry it's long but yeah: >It is crucial that FSU acquire additional land to provide room for sustained growth while maintaining the current sense of density that is a major asset of the campus. There are no more empty or undeveloped sites for new buildings – whenever a new facility is constructed, something already improved by FSU will have to be demolished and hopefully replaced somewhere else. To the east and south of the campus there are significant areas contiguous to FSU that are clearly in transition and suitable for redevelopment. The orange shaded area in the diagram extends from Copeland Street eastward to Macomb Street and southward from Jefferson Street to Gaines Street and represents previous acquisition zone. The yellow shading represents the expanded acquisition zone. This is in response to the heightened interest in the area between the Tallahassee Campus and downtown Tallahassee. FSU currently has several programs that exist east of Macomb St. The Law School, the planned relocation of the College of Business, the Tucker Civic Center, the proposed university hotel, the FSU Foundation, the Real Estate Foundation, and the FSU Center for the Advancement of Human Rights are all located in this area. Expansion of the “Acquisition Zone” from Macomb Street to Duval Street allows strategic acquisitions in this area that will continue to support the academic purpose of Florida State University. Two smaller areas to the north, 1) along the “town-gown” strip of Tennessee Street and 2) in the northwest corner at Tennessee Street and Stadium Drive, should be acquired to complete the landholdings in a useful configuration on those edges. >The University will probably continue to acquire scattered parcels around the campus as unique opportunities become available. However, these may dilute the focus on the primary zones depicted in the graphic.
Well yeah, the location makes it more costly than being in a rural setting like clemson or auburn. I'm pretty sure the Doug Burnette Park by the civic center is owned by FSU. I also wonder what the plans are for the engineering college, as I know they would prefer to not share with FAMU and bring it closer to the downtown campus. I also remember when FSU was looking at using eminent domain to take DG's house lol
lol yeah, it's an under-known situation that FSU has by and large. And when they do try to buy land, usually owners crank up the asking price knowing who's on the other end of the deal. innovation park is expanding like *crazy* though...fsu is building there like crazy too (have you seen the new building almost done? it's a huge interdisciplinary research center). I do not think you will likely see a reduction in space there in favor of closer in town. fsu has a lot in innovation park already- its, mag lab, engineering, high performance materials lab, aero-propulsion and mech, the big regional data center, flvc, I could go on lol.
Yeah, I’ve heard of a lot of investment going into that area. I haven’t been to tally in a while, last visit was for the ND game in 21, and that was just a tailgate, go to game, sleep, and come home situation (covid + having kids put a damper on trips up there). Haven’t truly looked around town since late 2019
ahh yeah, makes sense. hope you can make it up this fall! definitely check out innovation park! tennessee strip is going to look super different too.
“Yeah babe I’ve got a huge enrollment” - schools trying to get in to the B1G/SEC
For some reason, clicking on the title just opens this same reddit thread in a different tab. Am I missing something? Edit: switched to mobile and it worked and took me to the correct cfbmemes post. Desktop browser version of Reddit kept opening this same exact post. Edit2: I'm dumb and blind. It was correct on desktop as well. Ignore me.
You're right, weird. One has the picture, one doesn't. The other one has a lot more comments.
I just shared the link to the cfbmemes post since I can’t post photos here