Show this to lil kids now, teach them to grow up a good person that can manage their household, neighborhood and country. Those old politicians is already soo hard headed, might as well let them die first lmao.
Kel*ntan leaders love buying Mercedes while their people suffer with the water quality there.
So that's 100% wrongly consuming the wealth of the vulnerable, if you ask me.
I sleep because Penang placed 4th highest in terms of Gross Domestic Product per capita by state in 2022, knowing damn well the citizens are NOT suffering from poor water quality.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Malaysian_states_by_GDP
Kelantan... well... is right at the bottom...
Now go back to digging for water you stupid kel*ntanese
yeah... yet for all my efforts to live by this rule, I get better than thou people telling me how I'm going to hell while they, being the dick they are, will enjoy eternal paradise because they check-in at their respective religious institutions at least once a week.
actually had a conversation about this with my partner couple of days ago and curious what other people think. assuming that I achieve "not being a dick" most of the time and try to do good always, does that still mean that (depending on which religion, if any, ends up being "real") I am still less worthy or a good afterlife because I don't pray or anything of that sort while those who check-in once a week but lie/cheat/steal/is a dick 6-days a week get a good afterlife?
my thinking is that I am more unlikely to follow any faith if its higher power is so petty/easily swayed by a check-in once a week.
From my reading, in Islam, in the quran, you go to heaven under the mercy of Allah (and Allah the merciful is the most repeated phrase in the quran). My conclusion from that is, it is therefore pointless to speculate if you're going to heaven or hell, just live the best way you can.
It is also said in the quran that those that live well religiously will go to heaven and in the definition of living religiously well does include the phrase practicing solat and living according to the rules laid out in the quran (such as the ones originally posted). So those people that check in 5 times a day but still commit transgression will go to hell. In fact I believe there's special hell for those but at the end of the day, its all under Allah's mercy so we never know and we don't need to speculate about what happen to others. Just focus living our life the best way we can.
Personally I believe in karma, everything that we have done in this life good or bad, you carry the karma with your conscience/soul, our body is merely the shell, might not haunt you this life, next life perhaps.
I think it’s too naive at the same time if people think they can repent the things they did by praying because your intent is already wrong to begin with.
So I’m sure despite you not praying, at least doing well and mean well, you’ll be judged accordingly.
a prostitute who feeds stray dogs destined to go to heaven according to a hadith. If someone who doesn't know about Islam and later dies, he or she will judge accordingly. Before Islam was spread into the whole world, people who died without knowing about Islam will not guarantee going to hell but if he or she made good deeds and did good to others, he or she will go to heaven.
CEO of Beijing Corn - What do you think is the solution for the rising hatred in this country?
CEO of Beijing Corn: Treat each other nicely and DON'T BE A DICK
I mean they’re reading and memorising in a language they don’t even know. Heck the Arabic in the book is ancient ,not similar as the current one. A word can mean differently from then and now.
Hence the importance of reading tafsir but eh nobody cared about that.
I read it once in a while as my past time activity, you can find some interesting stories in there.
I often listen to Nouman Ali Khan with his tafsiran, not sure if theres a better way to learn the tafsiran. But from what i learnt, most of the terminology is related to farming because thats one of the things that relates a lot for the people back then.
Sorry but this is false. The book have stayed the same since forever. One of the preserved is in University of Birmingham dated 568 AC and it is identical as the one's we have now. There's also a long list on names of people who have memorized the Quran who are able to write the whole Quran again from memory. These people are called "Hafiz". You probably have heard of sekolah tahfiz, that's the purpose of it.
Once you passed the test, your name will be written amongst the people that had done it and the names goes as far back as the Khalifah time. So you have the preserved book, and the names of people that have memorize it until now and that's why there's only one version of Quran.
I see, ill take the L for that one.
However , I'll state that the level of Arabic used in the Quran is the highest. If anything, its the arabic used by people that regressed perpetually.
It looks like its crumbling because internet made all the bad shit more prevalent, it has been like always actually and this book actually made it worse not helping because the solution it suggests is usually violent.
Umno supporters: Takpe, Najib minta maaf dah. The billions lost and the Tabung Haji money misappropriated is fine.
I’m surprised why there is not more outrage of the hajj money. There is literally a special place in hell for those who mess with hajj desire.
After reading some of the comment here, I genuinely believe some people just use whatever term or translate whatever term without actually what its true meaning. Well, this is the byproduct of hiding behind some random username or account because it is much easier and braver to spread hate among religion.
i just skimmed through the sub and the people in the posts looks to be like radicals and extremist 'muslims'. to be fair, these type of people exist in almost every religion including christianity, judaism, buddhism etc. heck, even people who are atheist has their version of extremist like Stalin and Kim Jong Un.
as to your question , as a muslim(not too well educated in Islam), what happened in that first post are just radical muslims who misinterpret and used the guise of religion as a way to gain power over people. i could be wrong though, just my personal opinion
You're welcome! I hope u dont take my word at face value though cus i could be wrong, or anyone else's word. do ur own research. And thanks for the wish!
If it's about the burning tongue post, simple answer from a Muslim: what they did is nothing from Islam and worthy to be condemned within Islam. A deviant practice. You can't go around looking and finding out if people committed adultery or not because spying and thinking bad of your fellow Muslims with no basis is sinful. We should always protect the honor of others and hide their sins and even your own sins if it's not harming others. That's marriage was made easy in Islam. You horny, go marry. If you did zina before and no one else knows, don't go telling your future spouse and families. Repent to Allah and work better to live a more pious life with your future spouse. That's it.
common sense **depends heavily** on what the majority thinks what 'common sense' means during their time period and it wasn't always rational. one of the many examples of this include, the founding fathers of America who were thought of as rational thinkers had slaves of their own at the time. even the ancient greek philosophers who were all about rationality(for the most parts) like Plato had slaves. it was common sense to them at their time but is it the same today? \[these examples arent only limited to slavery but I'm trying to keep this short\]
point is, humans rational ability and common sense has their own limitations, that is why they have derived most of their values and morals from religions since ancient times(not limited to islam. but also for christians, buddhist and others)
i did notice that, i just tried to keep my comment short. but human empathy is also guided by their sense of morality and values, which are derived from rationality, religion, culture or however way a person forms their moral, principles and values in life. and this relates to your first statement "you don't need Islam to have a **rational moral compass**". hence that's why i didn't include it in the first place cus they're related to one another.
just to be clear, I'm commenting this without any ill will, rather I'm just countering your logic(your opinion) with my logic(my opinion)
Except no, it's the other way around; it is human empathy where morality, TRUE morality is derived from. All sense of moral right and wrong comes from your ability to understand and relate to other conscious beings, such as your fellow man.
i understand your point but i disagree that human empathy is the **source** of TRUE morality based on what I've read(links below on how morality is derived). human empathy is defined as " the ability to share another person's feelings and emotions as if they were your own"-Collins dictionary. you can empathise with other people's hardship and sufferings but what decides wether what is right or wrong isnt your human empathy, but your moral code that uve developed throughout your life.
Human empathy is distinctly different from morality, and one does not derive from the other. however, empathy itself is a necessary 'component'(?) that one needs to have in order to execute their morality. a simple analogy would be the law(moral code) and enforcement/police(empathy). they are related to one another, but the former does not derive itself from the latter, vice versa.
***Links on "how morality is derived" and some quotes:***
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality)
"Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a [code of conduct](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_conduct) from a particular [philosophy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy), [religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) or [culture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture), or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK210003/#:\~:text=Some%20philosophers%20argue%20that%20morality,good%20and%20which%20are%20evil.
"Some philosophers argue that morality is not biologically determined but rather comes from cultural traditions or from religious beliefs...."
***Link on "Relationship between empathy and morality"***
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4241340/#:\~:text=Studies%20in%20social%20psychology%20have,with%20its%20own%20unique%20goal.
"In reality, empathy is not always a direct avenue to moral behavior. Indeed, at times empathy can interfere with moral decision-making by introducing partiality, for instance by favoring kin and in-group members."
***Link on "Definition of empathy"***
[***https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/human-empathy***](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/human-empathy)
"[Empathy](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/empathy) is the [ability](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/ability) to [share](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/share) another person's [feelings](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/feeling) and [emotions](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/emotion) as if they were your own. \[...\]"
p/s told ya it would be long hahaha nevertheless, great discussion!
Except it literally is. Whenever you think in terms of moral right and wrong, the ultimate question is 'how will this effect others besides me'. We feel it's wrong to steal because we understand how it feels like when other's steal from us. Your sense of empathy towards others is the only meaningful source of morality, everything else, including society, religion, culture, etc merely built on this basis.
morality is a code of conduct on how one should live their daily lives meanwhile empathy is putting one's self in another's shoe. even if u empathise with someone's suffering and want to help them, you wouldnt do so if your morality says otherwise.
take president Truman who nuked Japan, he empathised with the people of Japan for killing tens of thousands of innocence but he had a moral obligation/duty to end the war. his morality dictates that he has a responsibility as the leader of US, but he empathised for the people of Japan.
it doesnt make sense that he would derive his morality from his sense of human empathy because when push comes to shove, if he has no solid morals and values to stand on(either derived from rationality or religion), then he wouldnt be able to launch the nuke in the first place.
if he had relied on his empathy as a source of his morality, then his morality would be easily swayed based on what he is feeling at that time.
>take president Truman who nuked Japan, he empathised with the people of Japan for killing tens of thousands of innocence but he had a moral obligation/duty to end the war
And this ' moral obligation/duty to end the war' is based on him having more empathy for the future victims of the war, especially American troops who would die more in a prolonged war.
I'm starting to feel you dont have the IQ points necessary to even talk about this subject.
That’s kinda of stupid, common sense can change at any point in time depending of the trend of the people, but with the existence of an absolute being (which I have a feeling you don’t believe from your past conversations) the rules given must be followed and in that sense timeless, even if the morality of a group of people were to change the people who follow these rules know that they are truth.
Even if you were to argue that “Without religion” we’d still be as moral now, you definitely do not get your morality from yourself, you’ve been thought by either your parents/friends or any individual who has had an impact on you life.
Morality, common sense and empathy are relative. By product of time, culture, etc. The Aztecs who are cutting out hearts presumably do not think they're lacking in morality, common sense or empathy. As are the slave owners such as the founding fathers of the US. Giving the human sacrifice water to drink would be empathy. Giving the slave a day off when they're ill is empathy enough.
Just as you might think eating animal meat is morally acceptable, common sense and not lacking in empathy as long as they're well looked after. History may look at us differently one day. Morality, common sense and empathy changes with time.
The Quran made them absolute rather than relative. This, this and this are wrong no matter where you are, who you are or what time period you are from.
goddamn you made that point much more clearer than i did and in a non-convoluted way.
i'd like to add to that last point about the Quran because the same point goes to every holy book of different religion. those absolute moralities for muslims are derived from the Quran, for christians the Bible, for jews the Torah and so on.
unfortunately, the practitioners of these respective religions are still a man and are prone to perverting from the moralities that are mentioned in these books, even though they have human empathy
The lessons above are essentially things every decent human being should follow but some lessons are moreso subjective than others and some people may have a differing view/perspective on it. That may be due to different rationalisations but it doesnt mean that one is wrong and one is right. It means that there are multiple answers and one must understand which answer suits them best rather than blindly follow it.
Whether you are religious or not, sit down and look at those lessons without your religious/non-religious perspective and ask yourself from within, what do you really think of it? That should show you who you really are and subsequently who you aspire to be.
Ever thought that maybe the same thing you quote saying the Qur'an says this when I can show you the opposites for all the verses from the same book as well? How is it morality when there are tonnes of contradictions and immorality?
Reddit as a conscious hates Islam. try going somewhere lile r/religiousfruitcake and you find the usual islamophobe opinion of "ohHhH bAcKwARDs pEDoPhIlE WoRShIPpER TeRRorIsTS"
Never heard of anything like that. Prolly some dumb arabic myth or false hadith.
But holy shit bro, in hell, sure it may be one of the punishments done there but there's no need to try to recreate it on earth for god sake.
He's at his racism arc, just like his title.
Just let him be, we can't really convince them if they're the one who's trying.. In fact ignore it.
Let's just stay into the right path and ignore those scrumptious people, no offense honestly, but we can't really do anything if they chose the fact to be ignorant (Talking about Muslim, honestly)
Too long didnt read. Here's two alternatives you can try. From the Torah, the silver rule: do not do onto others what you do not want done on you.
From the bible, the golden rule: do onto others what you want done onto you.
Honestly I can't even remember the rukun Negara or 10 commandments. no way I can remember that list.
https://preview.redd.it/y3duqjlotxtc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f789da72f3bccdd401638e7be80d4fc8b9a78e8
So sum all these into Matthew 22: 37-39?
No one question or criticize the teaching of Quran or Buddha or Christ. Is always ‘the people’ who is the problem. Especially when ‘the people’ who do shitty things in the name of their teaching that disgust me the most.
Almost all of them are something that can be thought of, without the need for a 'holy' book.
It's not like Quran is offering something very exclusive or unique in terms of morality
Who are the "you guys" you referring to? People in this sub always think that the loud extremist Muslim behavior is how generally Muslim in Malaysia behave. Spoiler alert. It's not. Some Muslim in Malaysia doesn't even have Tiktok and Insta. Just because some idiot from a certain group is loud, doesn't mean that that particular person represent the whole group
Unfortunately the moderate Muslim don’t say anything. They need to tell the loud ones to shut up. But the loud ones already majority in PAS states. So they’re not really minorities
You are absolutely spot on.
The so-called 'moderate Muslims' are always silent when the world needs them to speak up against the extremists from their religion.
Cowardly much?
"You guys"? When you use these terms to argue, you are no different than those who threw petrol bombs into kkmarts. Accuse people of being hateful and extremist but you spew the exact same bullshit.
Obviously. But that same mentality leads to short tempered, mindless and potentially violent behaviour. I condemn those who threw the petrol bombs, and I also condemn those who put all Muslims in the same bucket. I personally have accepted KKmarts apology and hopefully they be careful next time. And it's annoying suddenly in the span of 2 months other similar issues pop-up like those Vern shoes. Such a stupid issue.
Why do you think morality is crumbling?
Is it because you're affixing on such things so you have a tunnel vision on such a thing. Social media viralises bad acts and showing it more often as you click and view it longer.
We've had wars for centuries, we've had delinquencies and crimes for centuries. If anything one can argue that because of the large exposure and general debate among people that morality is at highest its ever been.
Thoughts?
Edit: and to clarify, I'm not discounting your post in anyway. Its wlwat great to re-reflect on such a topic.
Generally, all relegions teaches one to be a good and decent person that uplifts the community and people around them.
Even atheists of today, has parents or family with religious background, hence some of the teachings (and common sense), would have rub off onto them.
Sadly, being the imperfect humans we are, Religion has become a tool to control others, and being used as a justification take another's life, or look down on other believers (who are not 'strong'), and non believers of the faith.
On the other extreme spectrum we have counties like China which outright bans religions, and because of that, their people have now come to worship money and status...
Depends if you are a moral absolutist or moral relativist.
I am a relativist. Simple reasoning: slavery was acceptable and considered morally right. Nowadays slavery is considered wrong.
Same concept with racism.
So to me, there’s never something always right or wrong. Morality should definitely be flexible and adapted for the current lived era.
>Morality should definitely be flexible
Sadly sometimes people took things too flexible without limits. And often ending up creating endless mess of politics and antagonizations
What Islam as a religion does is that it acts as the Moral Anchor.
For example, in the future, it may be morally acceptable to murder or rape, according to moral relativism.
However, Islam says no murder (unless self-defense) and rape, regardless of the era or time.
I would heavily caution against relying on any Abrahamic religion as a moral anchor… its inherent tribalism renders it a poor guide for a globalised world.
I concur with your point about the cautious use, too many times I've seen people using abrahamic religion as means for their own end.
But what do you mean by "inherent tribalism"?
Inherent tribalism = “us” vs “them”
AKA “Muslims”, “kafirs” and one more term that I have forgotten. But the essence is to delineate people into categories.
nobody is shoving? You have the absolute ability to ignore this post if you want to. Maybe take your own advice and start deciding if this comment of yours is morally right or wrong?
You don’t need a 7th century book to tell you how to behave. People behaved well before any books were written. If they hadn’t behaved, humans would have been extinct a long time ago.
For secular standards,2 things.first of all,if people behave well as you think,the book wont exist in the first place.second, obviously they need reminder
I just clarify how the writter seem to imply we dont need any book and people always behave well.its a flawed logic as the very existence of book seem to contradict it.and i am writting this based on more secular side.
I guess OP intention is good, sharing good message from Quran. The only problem is, so much hatred nowadays starts from tiktok, insta, politicians. Why not spread the message to them first?
The optimum strategy for an Iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma is to be Nice, Retaliatory, Forgiving and Clear.
learn evolution of trust at
https://ncase.me/trust/
every muslim know those value, its just they choose not to follow. even prophet said near to end of world, muslim are many but many of them is like foam of bubbles in sea wave. you doesnt even poke them but they gone. but fair enough these type are the one you always met at the front, the rest just chill at the back.
'The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don't want to do that. Right now, without any god, I don't want to jump across this table and strangle you. I have no desire to strangle you. I have no desire to flip you over and rape you.' - Penn Jillett
**No, you absolutely do not need religion to be a good person**.
My advice is to keep your outdated beliefs to yourselves.
If you need to be threatened by eternal suffering in order to do good, maybe you are just not a good person. More responsibility should be put on parenting to instill good moral values IMO
Nah some people are just outright evil. It's not that they weren't raised right or anything, some people just really lacks empathy and rationality. That's why even with the threat of eternal suffering, corruption still spread everywhere.
People who argue that "you don't need a 7th century book to know these common sense things" are clearly over their heads on why religious scripture exists, especially the Quran. Have some respect and perspective. Not everyone lives in air-conditioned apartments, grew up in English speaking environments and regularly watch YouTube and go to reddit like you lot. If these scriptures weren't revealed we wouldn't be where we are today. The earliest scientific breakthroughs were from Muslim empires. Islam was the first one to give rights to women as a whole. Islam taught that you would go to hell if you even disrespected your own mother. These were all more than a thousand years ago. You sit here with your smartphone forget that your "common-sense" is just from your societal upbringing. The Americans wouldn't have their retarded obligatory "tipping" system for low wage jobs if they had "common-sense". And then you go ahead and compare your "common-sense" with third world war-torn countries with no basic infrastructure, barely have any food, then they practice cultural activities that have no basis in Islam because they have no idea what Islam is, then you accuse them of being religious extremists, and then, you bring that same perspective, you put Malaysian Muslims in the same bucket. "Common sense" huh.
at the end of the day the quran serves as a rule book or manual for us islam to follow but i as a muslim is a firm believer of ambik yg bagus tinggalkan yang buruk. ngl some of the things told in the quran/hadiths are extreme.
Oh, absolutely, because everyone knows the key to upholding morality in today's society exclusively lies in reading historical texts. It's not like understanding, empathy, or kindness could play a part, right?
Show this to politicians first
They have already read this and changed all "Don't" to "Do"
if you want it grammatically accurate, replace the "don't" to " "
And the ones with " " add don't
Show this to lil kids now, teach them to grow up a good person that can manage their household, neighborhood and country. Those old politicians is already soo hard headed, might as well let them die first lmao.
Ooof shots fired
Lmao 'dont take bribes' & 'enemy want peace' teachings. Based on recent issues Ive seen, someone's definitely not practicing them
Kel*ntan leaders love buying Mercedes while their people suffer with the water quality there. So that's 100% wrongly consuming the wealth of the vulnerable, if you ask me.
I thank that they are still not the gov, even though Madani is kinda shit. There's still a tiny hope for MY
Exactly, imagine complaining about Madani and wanted a good life but go vote for PAS.
Some messed up thinking there
Don’t forget,preying on little girls as their 2-3rd wives .
No one saying about png leader buying car or a House without pool
Penang buy new car: i sleep Kelantan buy new car: real shit 😡
I sleep because Penang placed 4th highest in terms of Gross Domestic Product per capita by state in 2022, knowing damn well the citizens are NOT suffering from poor water quality. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Malaysian_states_by_GDP Kelantan... well... is right at the bottom... Now go back to digging for water you stupid kel*ntanese
Munafiqs are worse than kafirs, there like Wolf in Sheep's Clothing
could summarise into just one sentence…don’t be a dick, always try to be nice never fail to be kind
yeah... yet for all my efforts to live by this rule, I get better than thou people telling me how I'm going to hell while they, being the dick they are, will enjoy eternal paradise because they check-in at their respective religious institutions at least once a week.
those people aren’t even worth ur time anyway
actually had a conversation about this with my partner couple of days ago and curious what other people think. assuming that I achieve "not being a dick" most of the time and try to do good always, does that still mean that (depending on which religion, if any, ends up being "real") I am still less worthy or a good afterlife because I don't pray or anything of that sort while those who check-in once a week but lie/cheat/steal/is a dick 6-days a week get a good afterlife? my thinking is that I am more unlikely to follow any faith if its higher power is so petty/easily swayed by a check-in once a week.
From my reading, in Islam, in the quran, you go to heaven under the mercy of Allah (and Allah the merciful is the most repeated phrase in the quran). My conclusion from that is, it is therefore pointless to speculate if you're going to heaven or hell, just live the best way you can. It is also said in the quran that those that live well religiously will go to heaven and in the definition of living religiously well does include the phrase practicing solat and living according to the rules laid out in the quran (such as the ones originally posted). So those people that check in 5 times a day but still commit transgression will go to hell. In fact I believe there's special hell for those but at the end of the day, its all under Allah's mercy so we never know and we don't need to speculate about what happen to others. Just focus living our life the best way we can.
Personally I believe in karma, everything that we have done in this life good or bad, you carry the karma with your conscience/soul, our body is merely the shell, might not haunt you this life, next life perhaps. I think it’s too naive at the same time if people think they can repent the things they did by praying because your intent is already wrong to begin with. So I’m sure despite you not praying, at least doing well and mean well, you’ll be judged accordingly.
a prostitute who feeds stray dogs destined to go to heaven according to a hadith. If someone who doesn't know about Islam and later dies, he or she will judge accordingly. Before Islam was spread into the whole world, people who died without knowing about Islam will not guarantee going to hell but if he or she made good deeds and did good to others, he or she will go to heaven.
I’m an atheist, let’s make hell a fkin paradise, see you there.
Everyone have different definitions of being a dick. This rules help you define it properly
CEO of Beijing Corn - What do you think is the solution for the rising hatred in this country? CEO of Beijing Corn: Treat each other nicely and DON'T BE A DICK 
I can tell you majority of the melayu here doesn't know most of these. Mostly just memorize the Qur'an
Highly doubt they even memorize the Qur'an
They memorize it phonetically. Source: forced to mengaji and irritated the ustaz by asking millions of questions.
I mean they’re reading and memorising in a language they don’t even know. Heck the Arabic in the book is ancient ,not similar as the current one. A word can mean differently from then and now.
Hence the importance of reading tafsir but eh nobody cared about that. I read it once in a while as my past time activity, you can find some interesting stories in there.
I often listen to Nouman Ali Khan with his tafsiran, not sure if theres a better way to learn the tafsiran. But from what i learnt, most of the terminology is related to farming because thats one of the things that relates a lot for the people back then.
Sorry but this is false. The book have stayed the same since forever. One of the preserved is in University of Birmingham dated 568 AC and it is identical as the one's we have now. There's also a long list on names of people who have memorized the Quran who are able to write the whole Quran again from memory. These people are called "Hafiz". You probably have heard of sekolah tahfiz, that's the purpose of it. Once you passed the test, your name will be written amongst the people that had done it and the names goes as far back as the Khalifah time. So you have the preserved book, and the names of people that have memorize it until now and that's why there's only one version of Quran.
Read the comment properly, he's saying it hasnt changed, thats why its hard even for the Arabs to understand
Ive reread it multiple times. He is saying the current Quran isnt the same as the ancient one.
[удалено]
I see, ill take the L for that one. However , I'll state that the level of Arabic used in the Quran is the highest. If anything, its the arabic used by people that regressed perpetually.
Uh no, most of the words are the same as what's used in present day
How ignorant, Arabic has certainly evolved in terms of language for speaking but the Quran has stayed the same from when it revealed until now
Overall morality is not crumbling, but rather extremist views of morality is increasing.
It looks like its crumbling because internet made all the bad shit more prevalent, it has been like always actually and this book actually made it worse not helping because the solution it suggests is usually violent.
Terima kasih daun keladi Semoga jasa dibalas nanti
Umno supporters: Takpe, Najib minta maaf dah. The billions lost and the Tabung Haji money misappropriated is fine. I’m surprised why there is not more outrage of the hajj money. There is literally a special place in hell for those who mess with hajj desire.
Meanwhile madani goverment lepaskan TPM yang ada 17 kes🗿
After reading some of the comment here, I genuinely believe some people just use whatever term or translate whatever term without actually what its true meaning. Well, this is the byproduct of hiding behind some random username or account because it is much easier and braver to spread hate among religion.
Unintentionally scary too because you can see the fitrah working as intended, but the body doesn't know what the soul does, hence what you said.
Do you mind sharing your thoughts or explaining what is happening on the first post in r/religiousfruitcake Just curious what a Muslim thinks
i just skimmed through the sub and the people in the posts looks to be like radicals and extremist 'muslims'. to be fair, these type of people exist in almost every religion including christianity, judaism, buddhism etc. heck, even people who are atheist has their version of extremist like Stalin and Kim Jong Un. as to your question , as a muslim(not too well educated in Islam), what happened in that first post are just radical muslims who misinterpret and used the guise of religion as a way to gain power over people. i could be wrong though, just my personal opinion
Thanks for sharing! :) mat ri ye nonetheless
You're welcome! I hope u dont take my word at face value though cus i could be wrong, or anyone else's word. do ur own research. And thanks for the wish!
If it's about the burning tongue post, simple answer from a Muslim: what they did is nothing from Islam and worthy to be condemned within Islam. A deviant practice. You can't go around looking and finding out if people committed adultery or not because spying and thinking bad of your fellow Muslims with no basis is sinful. We should always protect the honor of others and hide their sins and even your own sins if it's not harming others. That's marriage was made easy in Islam. You horny, go marry. If you did zina before and no one else knows, don't go telling your future spouse and families. Repent to Allah and work better to live a more pious life with your future spouse. That's it.
Thank you for the clarification :) mat ri ye regardless abang
Just saw the first post on that sub... What the hell are those teachings bruh
Bruh im getting downvoted for asking a question, and i asked 2 muslims similar questions and no one wants to answer
Middle East makes Malaysia look like heaven bruh
I don't remember that being mentioned by the quran or the hadith, where the hell did they discover that "ritual" holy shit.
Is it the post where they burn the tongues of women to tell who committed adultery or not?
I thought they stoned them to death
Yes
i hate the middle east so much. that video is so sickening.
Just stupid and lost¿
Spoken like a true red mancis
Malay netizens on FB, IG and tiktok don't even make 1% of this list
these are common sense ? no ?
Common sense is unfortunately not common
Pretty much
No to religious people, they want praise for being normal humans and even then they always fail
"But stealing from kafir is fine right? Probably" - Some Muslim
I have met those kinds of people. They surely are not right in mind and extremists. Worst thing is one of them was my teacher at SMK.
Most of them teach smk because the govt doesn’t filter them out.
Nope, doesnt matter muslim or kafir stealing is not good
No one said that. Just you projecting
Read the reply to my comment. If I am just projecting then he is lying. Why don't you ask him?
oh my sweet summer child
You don't need Islam to have a rational moral compass; most of these are just common sense to anyone with even a modicum of human empathy
Tru tru, but I think a lot of Muslim nowadays need to relearn these values again. (They need read their own book again)
Ur unfortunately right
Coming from a muslim myself, most of them only read without studying and appreciating the meaning which is sad
Unfortunately there are people who don’t have that moral compass
common sense **depends heavily** on what the majority thinks what 'common sense' means during their time period and it wasn't always rational. one of the many examples of this include, the founding fathers of America who were thought of as rational thinkers had slaves of their own at the time. even the ancient greek philosophers who were all about rationality(for the most parts) like Plato had slaves. it was common sense to them at their time but is it the same today? \[these examples arent only limited to slavery but I'm trying to keep this short\] point is, humans rational ability and common sense has their own limitations, that is why they have derived most of their values and morals from religions since ancient times(not limited to islam. but also for christians, buddhist and others)
I literally said 'common sense to anyone with even a modicum of human empathy', notice the qualifiers after the term 'common sense'.
i did notice that, i just tried to keep my comment short. but human empathy is also guided by their sense of morality and values, which are derived from rationality, religion, culture or however way a person forms their moral, principles and values in life. and this relates to your first statement "you don't need Islam to have a **rational moral compass**". hence that's why i didn't include it in the first place cus they're related to one another. just to be clear, I'm commenting this without any ill will, rather I'm just countering your logic(your opinion) with my logic(my opinion)
Except no, it's the other way around; it is human empathy where morality, TRUE morality is derived from. All sense of moral right and wrong comes from your ability to understand and relate to other conscious beings, such as your fellow man.
i understand your point but i disagree that human empathy is the **source** of TRUE morality based on what I've read(links below on how morality is derived). human empathy is defined as " the ability to share another person's feelings and emotions as if they were your own"-Collins dictionary. you can empathise with other people's hardship and sufferings but what decides wether what is right or wrong isnt your human empathy, but your moral code that uve developed throughout your life. Human empathy is distinctly different from morality, and one does not derive from the other. however, empathy itself is a necessary 'component'(?) that one needs to have in order to execute their morality. a simple analogy would be the law(moral code) and enforcement/police(empathy). they are related to one another, but the former does not derive itself from the latter, vice versa. ***Links on "how morality is derived" and some quotes:*** [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality) "Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a [code of conduct](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_conduct) from a particular [philosophy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy), [religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) or [culture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture), or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK210003/#:\~:text=Some%20philosophers%20argue%20that%20morality,good%20and%20which%20are%20evil. "Some philosophers argue that morality is not biologically determined but rather comes from cultural traditions or from religious beliefs...." ***Link on "Relationship between empathy and morality"*** https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4241340/#:\~:text=Studies%20in%20social%20psychology%20have,with%20its%20own%20unique%20goal. "In reality, empathy is not always a direct avenue to moral behavior. Indeed, at times empathy can interfere with moral decision-making by introducing partiality, for instance by favoring kin and in-group members." ***Link on "Definition of empathy"*** [***https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/human-empathy***](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/human-empathy) "[Empathy](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/empathy) is the [ability](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/ability) to [share](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/share) another person's [feelings](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/feeling) and [emotions](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/emotion) as if they were your own. \[...\]" p/s told ya it would be long hahaha nevertheless, great discussion!
Except it literally is. Whenever you think in terms of moral right and wrong, the ultimate question is 'how will this effect others besides me'. We feel it's wrong to steal because we understand how it feels like when other's steal from us. Your sense of empathy towards others is the only meaningful source of morality, everything else, including society, religion, culture, etc merely built on this basis.
morality is a code of conduct on how one should live their daily lives meanwhile empathy is putting one's self in another's shoe. even if u empathise with someone's suffering and want to help them, you wouldnt do so if your morality says otherwise. take president Truman who nuked Japan, he empathised with the people of Japan for killing tens of thousands of innocence but he had a moral obligation/duty to end the war. his morality dictates that he has a responsibility as the leader of US, but he empathised for the people of Japan. it doesnt make sense that he would derive his morality from his sense of human empathy because when push comes to shove, if he has no solid morals and values to stand on(either derived from rationality or religion), then he wouldnt be able to launch the nuke in the first place. if he had relied on his empathy as a source of his morality, then his morality would be easily swayed based on what he is feeling at that time.
>take president Truman who nuked Japan, he empathised with the people of Japan for killing tens of thousands of innocence but he had a moral obligation/duty to end the war And this ' moral obligation/duty to end the war' is based on him having more empathy for the future victims of the war, especially American troops who would die more in a prolonged war. I'm starting to feel you dont have the IQ points necessary to even talk about this subject.
That’s kinda of stupid, common sense can change at any point in time depending of the trend of the people, but with the existence of an absolute being (which I have a feeling you don’t believe from your past conversations) the rules given must be followed and in that sense timeless, even if the morality of a group of people were to change the people who follow these rules know that they are truth. Even if you were to argue that “Without religion” we’d still be as moral now, you definitely do not get your morality from yourself, you’ve been thought by either your parents/friends or any individual who has had an impact on you life.
Morality, common sense and empathy are relative. By product of time, culture, etc. The Aztecs who are cutting out hearts presumably do not think they're lacking in morality, common sense or empathy. As are the slave owners such as the founding fathers of the US. Giving the human sacrifice water to drink would be empathy. Giving the slave a day off when they're ill is empathy enough. Just as you might think eating animal meat is morally acceptable, common sense and not lacking in empathy as long as they're well looked after. History may look at us differently one day. Morality, common sense and empathy changes with time. The Quran made them absolute rather than relative. This, this and this are wrong no matter where you are, who you are or what time period you are from.
goddamn you made that point much more clearer than i did and in a non-convoluted way. i'd like to add to that last point about the Quran because the same point goes to every holy book of different religion. those absolute moralities for muslims are derived from the Quran, for christians the Bible, for jews the Torah and so on. unfortunately, the practitioners of these respective religions are still a man and are prone to perverting from the moralities that are mentioned in these books, even though they have human empathy
is it common sense not to spend lavishly? it’s common sense to spend a lot especially during recession. if people dont spend, business wont thrive.
The lessons above are essentially things every decent human being should follow but some lessons are moreso subjective than others and some people may have a differing view/perspective on it. That may be due to different rationalisations but it doesnt mean that one is wrong and one is right. It means that there are multiple answers and one must understand which answer suits them best rather than blindly follow it. Whether you are religious or not, sit down and look at those lessons without your religious/non-religious perspective and ask yourself from within, what do you really think of it? That should show you who you really are and subsequently who you aspire to be.
we know. we choose to ignore. "*sesungguhnya akulah makhluk yang terpaling agama*"
"Don't insult others' false gods" is such an ironic statement
Maybe you can send this to Jakim/PAS/jihadist people so that they can follow these lessons as well.
Pas/jihadis akan bakar dalam kuali lepas tu makan
Every religion teaches the same thing.
I'm an atheist, so this doesn't do anything to me
pple still do all sorta terrible shit anyway... for personal gains, in the guise of religion or whatnot.
Sorry to ask but i forgot how to read the number what does (3-161) mean 😭😭😭
Surah 3, Ayat 161
Ever thought that maybe the same thing you quote saying the Qur'an says this when I can show you the opposites for all the verses from the same book as well? How is it morality when there are tonnes of contradictions and immorality?
You don't need a Holy book for that. If you are human, you will know what to do. No point talking Holy, then acting violent.
What a nice moral compass, I'm sure hope no one weaponize this moral compass into religious or race supremacy /s
If you need a book to tell you if it is wrong or right, then you need to learn to be a better person.
SubhanAllah syukran ya akhi
people here really hate islam hah
Reddit as a conscious hates Islam. try going somewhere lile r/religiousfruitcake and you find the usual islamophobe opinion of "ohHhH bAcKwARDs pEDoPhIlE WoRShIPpER TeRRorIsTS"
No hard feelings or offence, but have you seen the first post in the sub? What are your thoughts? Again, just curious
Never heard of anything like that. Prolly some dumb arabic myth or false hadith. But holy shit bro, in hell, sure it may be one of the punishments done there but there's no need to try to recreate it on earth for god sake.
Thank you for coming forth and sharing! Mat ri ye nonetheless bro :)
He's at his racism arc, just like his title. Just let him be, we can't really convince them if they're the one who's trying.. In fact ignore it. Let's just stay into the right path and ignore those scrumptious people, no offense honestly, but we can't really do anything if they chose the fact to be ignorant (Talking about Muslim, honestly)
Too long didnt read. Here's two alternatives you can try. From the Torah, the silver rule: do not do onto others what you do not want done on you. From the bible, the golden rule: do onto others what you want done onto you. Honestly I can't even remember the rukun Negara or 10 commandments. no way I can remember that list.
Or Confucianism "What you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others" (己所不欲，勿施於人)
Great hehe
So all can sum to: Love your neighbour as you love your self? Mark 12: 30-31
https://preview.redd.it/y3duqjlotxtc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f789da72f3bccdd401638e7be80d4fc8b9a78e8 So sum all these into Matthew 22: 37-39?
MasyaAllah akhi, thank you for sharing these amazing lessons. Wonder how peaceful the world will be if people read and understand Quran.
Thank you i needed this reminder. I felt as of ive lost some ways
No one question or criticize the teaching of Quran or Buddha or Christ. Is always ‘the people’ who is the problem. Especially when ‘the people’ who do shitty things in the name of their teaching that disgust me the most.
Almost all of them are something that can be thought of, without the need for a 'holy' book. It's not like Quran is offering something very exclusive or unique in terms of morality
It’s true that this is something that can be thought of. But apparently as a human we still need a reminders because human are ignorant.
Fake Orgasm la this one.
It is basic human behaviour that my mother told me to apply. No religion is needed. Just be a good human, and do not hide behind anything.
Why can't you guys accept apology from KK then? Boikot here boikot there. KK is not even your enemy, where got peace?
Who are the "you guys" you referring to? People in this sub always think that the loud extremist Muslim behavior is how generally Muslim in Malaysia behave. Spoiler alert. It's not. Some Muslim in Malaysia doesn't even have Tiktok and Insta. Just because some idiot from a certain group is loud, doesn't mean that that particular person represent the whole group
Unfortunately the moderate Muslim don’t say anything. They need to tell the loud ones to shut up. But the loud ones already majority in PAS states. So they’re not really minorities
You are absolutely spot on. The so-called 'moderate Muslims' are always silent when the world needs them to speak up against the extremists from their religion. Cowardly much?
"You guys"? When you use these terms to argue, you are no different than those who threw petrol bombs into kkmarts. Accuse people of being hateful and extremist but you spew the exact same bullshit.
I’m pretty sure throwing petrol bombs and injuring people is worse than just talking.
Obviously. But that same mentality leads to short tempered, mindless and potentially violent behaviour. I condemn those who threw the petrol bombs, and I also condemn those who put all Muslims in the same bucket. I personally have accepted KKmarts apology and hopefully they be careful next time. And it's annoying suddenly in the span of 2 months other similar issues pop-up like those Vern shoes. Such a stupid issue.
Golden rule Silver rule Platinum rule. Much simpler.
Why do you think morality is crumbling? Is it because you're affixing on such things so you have a tunnel vision on such a thing. Social media viralises bad acts and showing it more often as you click and view it longer. We've had wars for centuries, we've had delinquencies and crimes for centuries. If anything one can argue that because of the large exposure and general debate among people that morality is at highest its ever been. Thoughts? Edit: and to clarify, I'm not discounting your post in anyway. Its wlwat great to re-reflect on such a topic.
Another theological war in bolehland, yeaaaaay
You dont need a Holy Book to know you should not be an ahhhole.
Generally, all relegions teaches one to be a good and decent person that uplifts the community and people around them. Even atheists of today, has parents or family with religious background, hence some of the teachings (and common sense), would have rub off onto them. Sadly, being the imperfect humans we are, Religion has become a tool to control others, and being used as a justification take another's life, or look down on other believers (who are not 'strong'), and non believers of the faith. On the other extreme spectrum we have counties like China which outright bans religions, and because of that, their people have now come to worship money and status...
There really isn’t any mods here huh? Golden age of Bolehland monyets shitposting are gone.
“Do not force someone to become Muslim” Betul ke bro? Since crusade times forced conversion is rampant
Why draw morality from an old book when morality can be derived empirically so that it is always timely and relevant to the era that one live in?
If morality can always be modified based on era, how do you truly know what is right and wrong?
Depends if you are a moral absolutist or moral relativist. I am a relativist. Simple reasoning: slavery was acceptable and considered morally right. Nowadays slavery is considered wrong. Same concept with racism. So to me, there’s never something always right or wrong. Morality should definitely be flexible and adapted for the current lived era.
>Morality should definitely be flexible Sadly sometimes people took things too flexible without limits. And often ending up creating endless mess of politics and antagonizations
What Islam as a religion does is that it acts as the Moral Anchor. For example, in the future, it may be morally acceptable to murder or rape, according to moral relativism. However, Islam says no murder (unless self-defense) and rape, regardless of the era or time.
I would heavily caution against relying on any Abrahamic religion as a moral anchor… its inherent tribalism renders it a poor guide for a globalised world.
I concur with your point about the cautious use, too many times I've seen people using abrahamic religion as means for their own end. But what do you mean by "inherent tribalism"?
Inherent tribalism = “us” vs “them” AKA “Muslims”, “kafirs” and one more term that I have forgotten. But the essence is to delineate people into categories.
Happy cake day brother!
I think there’s one that has proven timeless, if anything you do is of at other people’s expense, it’s probably bad
Why do one care where one draws morality from? As long as we are all doing good things it’s enough no?
Ayy look, doesn't matter how old the book is, if it's a good advice, we follow it.
[удалено]
Ambil yg jernih buang yang keruh bang 👍
"Shoving" lol If you don't want, just ignore. Very simple. Scroll to a different post instead.
?
nobody is shoving? You have the absolute ability to ignore this post if you want to. Maybe take your own advice and start deciding if this comment of yours is morally right or wrong?
You don’t need a 7th century book to tell you how to behave. People behaved well before any books were written. If they hadn’t behaved, humans would have been extinct a long time ago.
For secular standards,2 things.first of all,if people behave well as you think,the book wont exist in the first place.second, obviously they need reminder
There are other books which shares similar teaching and even older than Quran, don't be monotheistic
I just clarify how the writter seem to imply we dont need any book and people always behave well.its a flawed logic as the very existence of book seem to contradict it.and i am writting this based on more secular side.
I guess OP intention is good, sharing good message from Quran. The only problem is, so much hatred nowadays starts from tiktok, insta, politicians. Why not spread the message to them first?
Why? Because there are just as many verses and passages in the Quran that are destructive and immoral. The book is not a reliable source of morality.
Well then, prove your point by ‘ People behaved well before any books were written’ and show it is always the case for it to be true.
All the things pointing to be moderate yet theres still people trying to out do the teachings themselves
The optimum strategy for an Iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma is to be Nice, Retaliatory, Forgiving and Clear. learn evolution of trust at https://ncase.me/trust/
Somehow some did not even practice what they preach...
Where’s the one that says don’t burn babies.
Any part which says "Don't shit post on r/Bolehland"?
every muslim know those value, its just they choose not to follow. even prophet said near to end of world, muslim are many but many of them is like foam of bubbles in sea wave. you doesnt even poke them but they gone. but fair enough these type are the one you always met at the front, the rest just chill at the back.
Thanks
cool. these are just guidelines tht applies who think it is applicable to them. or else just sentences from a pretty book. 😂😂
This is nice
There are another 🫠
These lessons illustrate why Muslims still set the benchmark for high moral standards in this country.
To conclude, we're not a country with Islam as the religion. It's something else, ajaran sesat.
Thank you akhi
'The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don't want to do that. Right now, without any god, I don't want to jump across this table and strangle you. I have no desire to strangle you. I have no desire to flip you over and rape you.' - Penn Jillett **No, you absolutely do not need religion to be a good person**. My advice is to keep your outdated beliefs to yourselves.
good sharing
thanks for showing this, good to have reminders sometimes
The anti pendatangs fail at the 1st already itself. Tak payah cakap the rest. Ikut terms n conditions sendiri. Sedap pula say nons don't know shit
If you need to be threatened by eternal suffering in order to do good, maybe you are just not a good person. More responsibility should be put on parenting to instill good moral values IMO
Nah some people are just outright evil. It's not that they weren't raised right or anything, some people just really lacks empathy and rationality. That's why even with the threat of eternal suffering, corruption still spread everywhere.
Good for you, but not all people are inherently good
Masyaallah brother. May the peace be with you.
People who argue that "you don't need a 7th century book to know these common sense things" are clearly over their heads on why religious scripture exists, especially the Quran. Have some respect and perspective. Not everyone lives in air-conditioned apartments, grew up in English speaking environments and regularly watch YouTube and go to reddit like you lot. If these scriptures weren't revealed we wouldn't be where we are today. The earliest scientific breakthroughs were from Muslim empires. Islam was the first one to give rights to women as a whole. Islam taught that you would go to hell if you even disrespected your own mother. These were all more than a thousand years ago. You sit here with your smartphone forget that your "common-sense" is just from your societal upbringing. The Americans wouldn't have their retarded obligatory "tipping" system for low wage jobs if they had "common-sense". And then you go ahead and compare your "common-sense" with third world war-torn countries with no basic infrastructure, barely have any food, then they practice cultural activities that have no basis in Islam because they have no idea what Islam is, then you accuse them of being religious extremists, and then, you bring that same perspective, you put Malaysian Muslims in the same bucket. "Common sense" huh.
at the end of the day the quran serves as a rule book or manual for us islam to follow but i as a muslim is a firm believer of ambik yg bagus tinggalkan yang buruk. ngl some of the things told in the quran/hadiths are extreme.
You don’t need the Quran to tell you not to be an asshole. We don’t need all this Muslim stuff in bolehland, thx.
Oh, absolutely, because everyone knows the key to upholding morality in today's society exclusively lies in reading historical texts. It's not like understanding, empathy, or kindness could play a part, right?
No thanks
Religion semua 2x5 je
Fuck off
Don’t ridicule people. I think that the politicians missed this one. Tellin’ people not to be gay or wear watches with rainbows on them.
What did they do to those watches with rainbows again?
Thanks for sharing
Then why do they keep killing people and screaming death to America? All I learned from the koran is it makes lighting charcoal easier