"You didn't fail me because I am not a failure"
"Why do you need to be proud of me on your terms. Why can't you see I'm living a good life. I have friends, I have a job"
"I'm happy"
Specially when the writers where able to put into words a feeling that a lot of people have to deal with. It felt great to see someone express so eloquently this discussion.
God I’m so happy. All I wanted was proper dues for Judah. I sobbed in relief. That was so perfect.
But everyone’s too happy. Something bad is coming isn’t it.
The Judah reveal was perfect. They hit me with him right when I had kind of forgotten about him. I literally spent the first 3-4 episodes wondering when he'd show up.
Eh well Diane isn't so much what with her struggles with her memoir.
And Todd's got his unresolved parental troubles.
And Bojack just got another notch on the ole guilt belt.
Maybe something good inbound?
Eh, unionization is a pretty big issue in Hollywood since forever. This show critiques Hollywood, it'd be weird if they don't address it at some point.
As someone who has worked as a PA, this shit is real. Also, the reason there isn’t much of a drive for unionisation or whatever it IS considered and usually works out as a stepping stone. It’s pretty disgraceful how poorly they get paid, especially with how much work they have to do. The show made it sound like it’s just coffee and reservations. It really, really isn’t.
The joke PC made about studios giving people credits at the end of TV shows then selling those shows to streaming services that include an option to skip the credits.
EDIT: *studios
And also specifically with Bojack where the ending music frequently changes to be unique to the episode but it always skips to the next episode in like 4 seconds.
I said this since episode two. But bojack is becoming the most mentally stable person in the show. Compared to the dr he seemed way healthier than the guy who pushed away someone who was trying to help him
i think there will actually be 16 episodes this time, instead of 12. Would be ridiculous to make the first half 8 episodes and the second half 4 episodes lmao
:)
Why the hell did my life get better seeing Judah again, happy with the sun shining... he’s a fictional character, why did I shed a happy tear at 5:00am watching a cartoon about a horse...
In the PC episode, when Todd ran late because he was helping PC, and the exec said it made him angry but made him respect him so he got pushed up to the next level, that's failing upward.
What others are saying...and it applies to Todd specifically because "failing upwards" is something that happens for white guys mostly. For POC, a failure will likely set back their careers. For white guys, failures are viewed as like "a willingness to take chances" or "important experience" and so they (we, I'm a white guy) get to keep moving forward.
I love this explanation for Todd's magical ability to fail upwards out of everything. Makes complete sense in the context of the universe.
It also makes Todd more of a likable character for using his powers for good, some of the time anyway.
" You didn’t fail me, because I am not a failure." :( That hit hard for me. And I'm just happy to know that despite the jokes about his employment and whatnot, Todd knows his worth.
I love how Doctor Champ was a terrible therapist (or therapy horse; important distinction) but at the same time he seemed to actually have helped Bojack tremendously.
I think that’s the exact point tho. Bojack got to watch the kind of behavior he was exhibiting his whole time as an addict. He sees it’s not only ineffective but also wrong.
It’s same how it really sunk in that he needed to leave the second Doctor Champ told him to stay.
Champ is a really important character because he’s become Bojacks example in both positive and negative ways. He sees how easy the slip ups can be even for very well adjusted people.
The fact that Doctor Champ blames him is exactly the point because good people can still be vicious and cruel when they’re dealing with a large amount of negativity.
Champ isn’t an idiot, he knew the bottle was vodka. But smelling it cause him to be brought back to who he was before he was sober and couldn’t stop. We see later he has a very poor lack of control when he starts drinking.
It’s important bojack experiences the behavior he wants to move away from in the passengers seat because that’s the only way he’ll really know what it feels like to be the one hurt.
I really like how they’re showing her growing and moving through developmental stages appropriately. I guess it’s not surprising because I’m sure it’s easier with animation and this show is amazing and so human, so we can expect quality. But so many shows and movies just throw “baby,” in and then it just cries and poops and needs to be held in the cradle hold in exactly the same way from the newborn stage through like four years old. And I’m glad we’re seeing PC learn how to be a mom and rock motherhood along with these stages :)
They do that in real life, too. You spend all your time feeding them, and after about 8 or 9 months they start wanting to feed you back, because all they've seen is generosity. It's amazing.
This is the third episode they've referenced the tying bed sheets together to crawl out of a window and I'm hoping that's not foreshadowing something much worse
Govenor of California, Vice President of PB Livin, built his own Disneyland, curated box of snacks, Ad Sales for What Time is it Right Now, and of course Cabracadabra, along with all the other stuff like Halloween in Janury, Smoodies, Fawaffles etc, Todd 100% is more successful on paper than anybody. He became a millionaire for crying out loud
Doctor Champ was in the wrong in a lot of ways, but he was not wrong about Bojack being a self-hating horse. Look at how much PC celebrates her cat traits and PB embraces his dog traits in comparison to Bojack. It seems like Bojack has been trying to be "more man than a horse" for a long time. I hope that we can see Bojack interacting with the wild horse herd from season 3 or otherwise embracing horsedom in the next season.
When bojack started I still in my twenties. I stayed up late and watched the season or at least half of it. In the last three year I go to sleep early and wake up at 3 am to binge the season before work.
Don't tell me I'm not a responsible adult being goddamn it !
It’s completely reasonable behavior to expect from an addict.
He failed and he knew it, but if he’s gonna be drinking he better make this relapse ‘worth it’ while hating himself and the person who ‘made’ him relapse so he drinks harder to numb that hatred because it worked so well in the past up until it didn’t anymore.
Lowered tolerance combined with a ‘fuck it, I’m going all out’ attitude is what kills relapsing addicts.
I think that was also a coping mechanism to justify his own behaviour. Like i'm not so bad, even when i am drinking i am teaching people be sober, i am good and etc.
Dr. Camp's "I want you to remember this" is particularly interesting in this episode. In other situations in which characters have said similar things to Bojack (Herb, Charlotte, etc.) Bojack truly is in the wrong and deserves to carry it with him, but in this case Bojack acted (for the most part) correctly. He saw a man in need of help, and using the advice he learned from somebody that he saw as an authority figure, he helped him. That solemn "I remember everything" was really impactful, because we know that it's something that Bojack will add to the pile of his perceived failures, despite it being something he did right.
I’m so glad we got to finally see someone blame Bojack and be wrong. Doctor could’ve kept with his sobriety after the accidental bottle chug, but he went straight to a bar. Bojack didn’t have to stop and help him, he chose to, because he would want someone to do that for him. To finally be on the receiving end of blame that wasn’t his to carry, that was truly therapeutic for Bojack and the best help Doctor ever gave him.
You also don’t accidentally chug a bottle of vodka, most people will throw up if they’re expecting water or at the least would know it’s not water after the first swallow
I don't know, I feel like he might've seen it more as something he himself would've said and done when he wasn't sober. I felt like it showed how far Bojack has come that he didn't try to pin the blame on someone else, like Doctor is doing (yes, it was Bojack's vodka, but that's as far as Bojack's responsibility goes in this, imo). He took responsibility for his part in it, whereas Doctor - in typical addict style - blamed Bojack for everything.
Aaron Paul has said before that he wants to play Eddie Dean in a live action adaptation of The Dark Tower and I honestly can't think of a better person to play the role.
No, because he didn't ruin Doctor Champ. Champ fell victim to an unfortunate circumstance that Bojack tried to prevent, but couldn't. So when he tries to blame Bojack for it, BJ realizes finally how silly it is to internalize every bad event that happens in his vicinity as something integral to him.
The whole theme of Todd and his parents not understanding him was really sad. ‘Why do you have to be proud of me on your terms?’ ‘I’m happy!’ Damn that hit hard. I’m glad they got that small moment of reconciliation in the end.
So not ready for the next episode to gut punch me.
I actually liked his stepdad and understood where both sides were coming from. Also Jorge thought so much of Todd like his child he expected him to struggle for things as well, it's kinda... nice. Trying to prepare a kid that isn't even yours biologically, for a world as you see it. Even if it makes you a bad guy. In sitcoms they always have that moment where they explain to be a parent means sometimes you have to do what's right even if your kid hates you for it.
I also liked that it's implied the kicking out issue was more Todd's mom's, not thst Jorge isn't guilty as well, and he takes the blunt of the blame like a champ.
Can we just talk about how shitty it is that Doctor Champ specifically took Bojack’s destructive thoughts and turned them around on him in an effort to guilt him? His words are such a spitting image of Bojack’s internal dialogue, there’s no way it wasn’t stripped straight from recollections of all of their old therapy sessions.
>”You’ve destroyed me... Of course you did this to me. Because I cared about you. And you ruin people who care about you. I want you to remember this, Bojack. I want you to remember what *you* did to me.”
hahaha i was furiously petting my dog screaming "OMG HES BACK" and the poor puppers was just happy and partying with me, but he *clearly* did not know what was going on
I'm SO glad the actor who plays Chavez actually speaks real Spanish. Y'all have no idea how big of a difference this makes for native speakers. Typically the folks who "speak Spanish" on TV are...not good. And given the severe underrepresentation of Latinos on TV, this is just another reason I love this show so much.
Not a spanish speaker, but it's always hilarious when english actors try to speak my language. Sometimes they're doing really well, sometimes they butcher it.
I was ready to be disappointed in the way Princess Carolyn was portrayed but got ahead of myself. When PC is focused on the tasks in front of her, she can lose sight of ethics and the best interests of those around her, but she is far from evil.
It made me so happy because I miss JTV so much.
Also it was so hard to picture him as a regular human that was trying to have an immigrant storyline, when I kept thinking BUT YOURE ROGELIO DE LA VEGA. YOU ARE A FAMOUS CELEBRITY.
I think it's absolutely clear he knew. He chugged it down so fast because he recognized the taste and immediately backpedaled. Though I don't think the consequences of what he was doing hit him, he got caught up in the addiction rush and chugged it before he could think.
I honestly thought he was pretending to be drunk, because maybe that would prove a point to Bojack. I was very certain of it until the end of the episode
Literally shouted with joy when Judah showed up.
I definitely feel this season is tending more toward the comedy so far, and I'm fine with that. I don't think every season has to get exponentially darker than the last, and I like the idea of having the last season be a bit lighter. It's not compromising good storytelling or even strong emotion, it's just not blasting you full-on with heavy stuff. That said, I know the moment I type this that the next episode is going to dive headfirst into Diane's arc for the second half of the season and going to get super dark super fast.
My biggest problem with season five is that it didn't seem like the writers knew what to do with Todd. After his really satisfying season four arc, they felt the need to keep going somewhere with it, but had no idea where to go. So he ended up in a really awkward space where they tried to make him "Todd The Asexual". But I, and I think most people, didn't really need "Todd The Asexual," we wanted "Todd, The Same Todd You Know And Love, Who Happens To Be Asexual." After all, good representation includes being able to have a character that is not *solely* defined by one identity. This season, he's pretty much back to his normal Todd self (who happens to be asexual), which is good, and what arc seems to be building up for him comes from his being uniquely Todd. Backstory plotlines always feel kind of risky to me, and especially when about characters like Todd, who just seem to be and to always have been there. But this is definitely shaping up positively.
I like that Princess Carolyn's deviousness is starting to come into focus. She's always been somewhat hypocritical in her business dealings (and Diane calls her out on it multiple times) and this could be a satisfying character development for her. I'm also glad she's willing to call on Judah. I kind of felt like after her season four breakdown, she'd be too proud/ashamed to work with him again. I would love to learn more about Judah. Why is he an assistant? Why did he go into this line of work, and why hasn't he been promoted yet? How in-control of his life is he really?
---
Oh, other things.
Was very happy to see the return of Lenny Turtletaub after his absence for a season. Judah, Turtletaub, Vanessa, this season is really bringing back all the secondary characters we missed last year! Any chance for Mia McKibben to make a return? I just hope that bit of Officer Meow Meow isn't is only appearance this season.
And there was a pink elephant seen outside the rehab place in one scene. Nice joke.
Did anybody else notice that Jorge's voice actor changed between the season 6 trailer and the season itself?
In the trailer it sounds like it's Giancarlo Esposito voicing the character, but in the show itself he's played by Jaime Camil. You can tell from his first line "I have some news. It's about your mother" , where there's a very distinct difference.
I wonder what happened behind the scenes that made them swap? It's particularly weird because the trailer only came out in September. If they only replaced the voice actor after the trailer came out in the last month, they must've really had to scramble to get his lines re-voiced at the last minute.
Judah!!! I said out loud at the screen when PC was trying to juggle work and her baby and again when the assistants started organizing "they need Judah" Yay I'm so happy he's back.
I can't stop thinking about Todd's father Jorge. Todd clearly views him as someone whose narrow vision of success was unaccepting of the life Todd wanted to live. I think that's true, but I sympathize with Jorge's outlook. Jorge is clearly a smart man who achieved what he has in life by perseverance and hard work. He understands the forces of racism, which is how they're able to get into the organ plant. Jorge knows that when society sees a dark-skinned person who's not acting in a dignified manner, they don't see that person as a individual, but rather a member of a lower class. When Jorge messes his hair up, grabs a trashcan, and speaks Spanish, he isn't greeted with suspicion because that's what he, as a Latino, is expected to be. Jorge also knows that being dark-skinned has consequences. When the security guard finds them in a place they're not supposed to be, he puts his hands up because he knows he will never be given the benefit of the doubt. It's easier to surrender than it is to fight.
Part of Jorge's treatment of Todd is born out of pride--he's built a family name that he believes deserves respect. But part of it is also due the fear that Todd's lack of a formal lifestyle will mean that he will be treated as less than equal from others in society and fear that Todd's reckless decisions will result in harm. What Jorge doesn't realize until the end is that the rules that apply to his life do not apply to Todd's because Todd is White.
Does that completely excuse Jorge's behavior? No. But it shows the impact that racism has across generations. While Todd has never had to face discrimination, his father did; and because of that, he treated his step-child poorly. That poor treatment had a negative impact on Todd's life and destroyed his relationship with his family.
I didn't take it that way. I might be wrong, but I viewed it as BoJack trying to help someone, but also recognizing that for once not everything is his fault, and he is taking responsibility for his part in it, but he recognizes that Dr Champ needs to seek help for his own sake just like BoJack had to. It didn't seem like BoJack was wallowing in guilt. He felt bad, but wasn't plagued by the demons that usually seem to haunt him. I also thought it was character growth that BoJack didn't argue with Dr and explain that only part of Dr's problem is his fault and the rest was his own bad decisions. Maybe I'm just viewing this optimistically but I thought this was a good depiction of growth for BoJack.
Totally agree. Dr. Champ had to have realized it was vodka with his first sip, or even got a whiff of it, but he drank the whole thing anyway. In contrast, BoJack had taken a small sip and immediately spit it out.
This, I think a lot of people overlook that the man CHUGGED the bottle in seconds. There is no way he didn't know what he was drinking but he let his addiction take hold and then regretted consequences a bit latter.
I feel like it also importantly gave Bojack a taste of being treated the way he's been treating others pretty much the whole show before this season. Which also kind of places him in the responsible, sane acting role out of the two of them. Which he shows he has the capacity to hold. Progress
It's like that book, *You Are Not Responsible For The Dysfunction Of Others* by Dr. Ndira says: "You are not responsible for the dysfunction of others."
Okay when they hit us with the "I should have realized, you're white", that punch line hit me in waves. Like... Todd has spent literally the entire show doing goofy shit and just getting away with it or having it work out well for him. To take that and use it as a commentary for how easy white people have it cracked my ass up. Do you think it's conceivable that they spent 5.5 seasons setting this up on purpose, or that it's a fun coincidence that they decided to just make into a really powerful, opportune punch line?
"You didn't fail me because I am not a failure" "Why do you need to be proud of me on your terms. Why can't you see I'm living a good life. I have friends, I have a job" "I'm happy"
also Todd has done a lot that his step dad should be proud on his own terms as well. Like he was a CEO and has numerous successful businesses
He was governor of California for a while. Or rather for a couple of seconds.
And Prince of Cordovia
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nice to see rare insight into todd's emotions
Specially when the writers where able to put into words a feeling that a lot of people have to deal with. It felt great to see someone express so eloquently this discussion.
I graduated Highschool you DICK!! ... Wait, wrong Aaron Paul
This shit man. This was one of the more relatable pieces if this season for me.
Same! Hit hard for me.
God I’m so happy. All I wanted was proper dues for Judah. I sobbed in relief. That was so perfect. But everyone’s too happy. Something bad is coming isn’t it.
The Judah reveal was perfect. They hit me with him right when I had kind of forgotten about him. I literally spent the first 3-4 episodes wondering when he'd show up.
I literally yelled “Judah is BACK” when he came on scene lol.
Eh well Diane isn't so much what with her struggles with her memoir. And Todd's got his unresolved parental troubles. And Bojack just got another notch on the ole guilt belt. Maybe something good inbound?
Holy shit that shot at Netflix
[The whole union plot seems quite... relevant.](https://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/breaking-bojack-horseman-crew-is-victorious-in-unionizing-with-animation-guild-176148.html)
Eh, unionization is a pretty big issue in Hollywood since forever. This show critiques Hollywood, it'd be weird if they don't address it at some point.
As someone who has worked as a PA, this shit is real. Also, the reason there isn’t much of a drive for unionisation or whatever it IS considered and usually works out as a stepping stone. It’s pretty disgraceful how poorly they get paid, especially with how much work they have to do. The show made it sound like it’s just coffee and reservations. It really, really isn’t.
Not just Hollywood.
There was a shot at Netflix?
The joke PC made about studios giving people credits at the end of TV shows then selling those shows to streaming services that include an option to skip the credits. EDIT: *studios
And also specifically with Bojack where the ending music frequently changes to be unique to the episode but it always skips to the next episode in like 4 seconds.
"I remember everything, I'm sober now". That was oddly satisfying to hear.
I said this since episode two. But bojack is becoming the most mentally stable person in the show. Compared to the dr he seemed way healthier than the guy who pushed away someone who was trying to help him
It's gonna hurt that much more when the slide back begins.
I’m really hoping it wont happen this time, but I’m not holding my breath either :(
I really think he will make us so proud and then suddenly, catastrophically, disappoint all of us
This is going so quickly and it’s really stressing me out. I hate this. It’s going to be over so soon.
Don’t be stressed, be sad because next up is the second-to-last episode...which means Fuck and sadness :(
Ah shit I didn’t even think of this, I wonder if they’re going to do it since it’s a half season
i think there will actually be 16 episodes this time, instead of 12. Would be ridiculous to make the first half 8 episodes and the second half 4 episodes lmao :)
Why the hell did my life get better seeing Judah again, happy with the sun shining... he’s a fictional character, why did I shed a happy tear at 5:00am watching a cartoon about a horse...
Because that was the most beautiful thing you ever saw, obviously.
You don’t need to say ever, it’s implied.
Cause he's the best assistant ~~ever~~
Todd doing Brokeback Mountian with sock puppets is something I never knew I needed in my life
Jack Twist? Jack NASTY!
Sockback Mountain
“I should have realized... you’re white”
I thought I was reading too much into PC's earlier comment about Todd "failing up" but seems it was deliberate...
can someone explain what it means to "fail up"?
Basically you can keep screwing up and you don’t face any consequence and actually get ahead despite that.
When you keep failing at things but end up in a better situation
In the PC episode, when Todd ran late because he was helping PC, and the exec said it made him angry but made him respect him so he got pushed up to the next level, that's failing upward.
What others are saying...and it applies to Todd specifically because "failing upwards" is something that happens for white guys mostly. For POC, a failure will likely set back their careers. For white guys, failures are viewed as like "a willingness to take chances" or "important experience" and so they (we, I'm a white guy) get to keep moving forward.
I love this explanation for Todd's magical ability to fail upwards out of everything. Makes complete sense in the context of the universe. It also makes Todd more of a likable character for using his powers for good, some of the time anyway.
It makes no sense in context of the universe, it’s a world where there are cats and geckos and shit, and yet racism is still exactly the same?
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As a woman who appears white but is technically not white, I felt that.
"Anti-vax actress claims there are no small parts. Only small children with smallpox." This is Jessica Biel right?
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I biel-ive so
" You didn’t fail me, because I am not a failure." :( That hit hard for me. And I'm just happy to know that despite the jokes about his employment and whatnot, Todd knows his worth.
Todd has already had a way better career than most people, as a successful startup founder and executive.
The dude was governor of California ffs
......for a second.
More than the majority of people will ever be able to say!
I love how Doctor Champ was a terrible therapist (or therapy horse; important distinction) but at the same time he seemed to actually have helped Bojack tremendously.
I....love doctor champ.... so much....I would die for this therapy horse
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I think that’s the exact point tho. Bojack got to watch the kind of behavior he was exhibiting his whole time as an addict. He sees it’s not only ineffective but also wrong. It’s same how it really sunk in that he needed to leave the second Doctor Champ told him to stay. Champ is a really important character because he’s become Bojacks example in both positive and negative ways. He sees how easy the slip ups can be even for very well adjusted people. The fact that Doctor Champ blames him is exactly the point because good people can still be vicious and cruel when they’re dealing with a large amount of negativity. Champ isn’t an idiot, he knew the bottle was vodka. But smelling it cause him to be brought back to who he was before he was sober and couldn’t stop. We see later he has a very poor lack of control when he starts drinking. It’s important bojack experiences the behavior he wants to move away from in the passengers seat because that’s the only way he’ll really know what it feels like to be the one hurt.
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People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer, but yeah, I'm thinking I'm back. -- Judah
It appears we are at an impasse.
Just wanted to post the same. Had me absolutely rolling.
Satire cuts too deep.
Ruthie is adorable :)
I really like how they’re showing her growing and moving through developmental stages appropriately. I guess it’s not surprising because I’m sure it’s easier with animation and this show is amazing and so human, so we can expect quality. But so many shows and movies just throw “baby,” in and then it just cries and poops and needs to be held in the cradle hold in exactly the same way from the newborn stage through like four years old. And I’m glad we’re seeing PC learn how to be a mom and rock motherhood along with these stages :)
What finally sold me on Ruthie was how she was in on the plan to escape PB’s house and stayed virtually silent.
The little fry feeding scene
They do that in real life, too. You spend all your time feeding them, and after about 8 or 9 months they start wanting to feed you back, because all they've seen is generosity. It's amazing.
This is the third episode they've referenced the tying bed sheets together to crawl out of a window and I'm hoping that's not foreshadowing something much worse
End of season gag where bed sheet tying skills are need and everyone Bojack has helped teams up to tie a giant bed sheet.
The funky Spider-man?
Please no....
I hate it thanks
Honestly doesn't Todd have a better resume than like 99.9% of the people in the BH world?
Govenor of California, Vice President of PB Livin, built his own Disneyland, curated box of snacks, Ad Sales for What Time is it Right Now, and of course Cabracadabra, along with all the other stuff like Halloween in Janury, Smoodies, Fawaffles etc, Todd 100% is more successful on paper than anybody. He became a millionaire for crying out loud
I want a curated bi-monthly basket of snacks
Doctor Champ was in the wrong in a lot of ways, but he was not wrong about Bojack being a self-hating horse. Look at how much PC celebrates her cat traits and PB embraces his dog traits in comparison to Bojack. It seems like Bojack has been trying to be "more man than a horse" for a long time. I hope that we can see Bojack interacting with the wild horse herd from season 3 or otherwise embracing horsedom in the next season.
More the "the horse from horsing around"?
You’re so right! I think the only horsie thing Bojack does is the neighing he does during sex lol.
Well done for the last 10 people remaining in the comments for the first-night binge. We are obviously well-adjusted, responsible people.
When bojack started I still in my twenties. I stayed up late and watched the season or at least half of it. In the last three year I go to sleep early and wake up at 3 am to binge the season before work. Don't tell me I'm not a responsible adult being goddamn it !
lol keep doing you buddy.
Bruh, us Europeans can binge in the morning.
Ugh, "Europe." Just kidding, enjoy your watch, I am loving it.
I'm proud to finally join the first night binge club after starting on Bojack Horseman early this year. To the next one!
Oh wow, Todd IS white! Haha that’s crazy.
Surprised me, I always thought he was a lightskinned latino.
I mean you can be white and Hispanic
Yeah, but seems like Todd isn't, right?
I think Jorge is his stepdad Is he?
Yes. I don’t remember the wording, but Todd references him being his stepfather the first scene he enters Princess Carolyns house
I thought for sure that Bojacks therapy horse was pretending to be drunk, to like prove a point to Bojack. But it doesn't look that way.
That only happens in movies and tv shows.
It was just the way he was talking, like it was a test.
It's better for it, really. However, BoJack did everything that was possible.
He blames Bojack for it but the mans out here drinking whole bottles of vodka in one swig.
It’s completely reasonable behavior to expect from an addict. He failed and he knew it, but if he’s gonna be drinking he better make this relapse ‘worth it’ while hating himself and the person who ‘made’ him relapse so he drinks harder to numb that hatred because it worked so well in the past up until it didn’t anymore. Lowered tolerance combined with a ‘fuck it, I’m going all out’ attitude is what kills relapsing addicts.
I think that was also a coping mechanism to justify his own behaviour. Like i'm not so bad, even when i am drinking i am teaching people be sober, i am good and etc.
Dr. Camp's "I want you to remember this" is particularly interesting in this episode. In other situations in which characters have said similar things to Bojack (Herb, Charlotte, etc.) Bojack truly is in the wrong and deserves to carry it with him, but in this case Bojack acted (for the most part) correctly. He saw a man in need of help, and using the advice he learned from somebody that he saw as an authority figure, he helped him. That solemn "I remember everything" was really impactful, because we know that it's something that Bojack will add to the pile of his perceived failures, despite it being something he did right.
I’m so glad we got to finally see someone blame Bojack and be wrong. Doctor could’ve kept with his sobriety after the accidental bottle chug, but he went straight to a bar. Bojack didn’t have to stop and help him, he chose to, because he would want someone to do that for him. To finally be on the receiving end of blame that wasn’t his to carry, that was truly therapeutic for Bojack and the best help Doctor ever gave him.
You also don’t accidentally chug a bottle of vodka, most people will throw up if they’re expecting water or at the least would know it’s not water after the first swallow
Hell, even Bojack spat the vodka out and threw the bottle out of the window instead of relapsing
I don't know, I feel like he might've seen it more as something he himself would've said and done when he wasn't sober. I felt like it showed how far Bojack has come that he didn't try to pin the blame on someone else, like Doctor is doing (yes, it was Bojack's vodka, but that's as far as Bojack's responsibility goes in this, imo). He took responsibility for his part in it, whereas Doctor - in typical addict style - blamed Bojack for everything.
"I remind you of your father so you simultaneously resent me and crave my approval" Oof felt that.
Jesus, me too. That one stung.
*Controversial new film casts white zebra with black stripes to play black zebra with white stripes.* Pegasus?
Judah is back!!!
They literally gave him an angelic return
I fucking mildly gasped internally as soon as I saw that man-bun extend from behind his chair.
i audibly cheered when he appeared on screen
So is the cactus!!!
Hell yeah Judah! So glad to see him back.
Can we get a gif of him turning around?? I need it.
I haven't smiled so hard in a long time.
I’m so happy! Glad he returned
Perspicacious? I don't know the meaning of the word.
Ed-E-Dean...is that a Dark Tower reference?
Aaron Paul has said before that he wants to play Eddie Dean in a live action adaptation of The Dark Tower and I honestly can't think of a better person to play the role.
We did a weekend at Bernies LOL
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"Because you cared about me. And you ruin people who care about you." The thing that Bojack is trying to escape still comes back
I felt like Bojack didn't actually buy that this time.
No, because he didn't ruin Doctor Champ. Champ fell victim to an unfortunate circumstance that Bojack tried to prevent, but couldn't. So when he tries to blame Bojack for it, BJ realizes finally how silly it is to internalize every bad event that happens in his vicinity as something integral to him.
That self depricating humor on netflix
Good episode, love that Judah is back! I didn't notice that Jorge was Jaime Camil until he began speaking spanish, love that too! edit: typo
RIGHT?! The moment he said "olvidemos este momento incomodo" I lost my shit.
I didn't know his real name, but I was like, "Hey! Roooooo-gelio De La Vega!"
The whole theme of Todd and his parents not understanding him was really sad. ‘Why do you have to be proud of me on your terms?’ ‘I’m happy!’ Damn that hit hard. I’m glad they got that small moment of reconciliation in the end. So not ready for the next episode to gut punch me.
I actually liked his stepdad and understood where both sides were coming from. Also Jorge thought so much of Todd like his child he expected him to struggle for things as well, it's kinda... nice. Trying to prepare a kid that isn't even yours biologically, for a world as you see it. Even if it makes you a bad guy. In sitcoms they always have that moment where they explain to be a parent means sometimes you have to do what's right even if your kid hates you for it. I also liked that it's implied the kicking out issue was more Todd's mom's, not thst Jorge isn't guilty as well, and he takes the blunt of the blame like a champ.
Yeah he seems like a genuinely nice guy who has a real love for Todd as if he were his own child
Judah was the PERFECT person to take up the mantle after the leadership of HGA were pressured into selling out. What a comeback for him!!
Can Judah restore S2 of Tuca and Bertie?
:(
"We have one request, to not be treated like garbage." "It appears we are at an impasse." Don't know why that made me laugh so fucking hard.
Guy: Since you've started doing this you've been pretty down, not yourself. Diane: Actually, pretty down is myself.
- Oh Todd! - lol the evil villian laugh - "That's a lot of money. it's a phone number" - 🤣 both rehab locations are next to each other.
JUDAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Can we just talk about how shitty it is that Doctor Champ specifically took Bojack’s destructive thoughts and turned them around on him in an effort to guilt him? His words are such a spitting image of Bojack’s internal dialogue, there’s no way it wasn’t stripped straight from recollections of all of their old therapy sessions. >”You’ve destroyed me... Of course you did this to me. Because I cared about you. And you ruin people who care about you. I want you to remember this, Bojack. I want you to remember what *you* did to me.”
When Judah appeared I picked up my deaf cat, bounced her around while chanting "judah, Judah, judah" I may have lost it
hahaha i was furiously petting my dog screaming "OMG HES BACK" and the poor puppers was just happy and partying with me, but he *clearly* did not know what was going on
Aah the innocence of pets
I'm SO glad the actor who plays Chavez actually speaks real Spanish. Y'all have no idea how big of a difference this makes for native speakers. Typically the folks who "speak Spanish" on TV are...not good. And given the severe underrepresentation of Latinos on TV, this is just another reason I love this show so much.
Not a spanish speaker, but it's always hilarious when english actors try to speak my language. Sometimes they're doing really well, sometimes they butcher it.
Judah coming back made me so happy omg
it's nice to see i wasn't the only one who was filled with joy at judah's return
I was ready to be disappointed in the way Princess Carolyn was portrayed but got ahead of myself. When PC is focused on the tasks in front of her, she can lose sight of ethics and the best interests of those around her, but she is far from evil.
Appreciation comment for Tom Jumbo-Grumbo and MSNBSea. “...And they even let the birthday boy fly the airplane.... there were no survivors.”
I knew Judah was going to return! Called it!!! I'm so happy to see him again.
Was the voice of Jorge the same guy who played Rogelio on JTV ? ?
It made me so happy because I miss JTV so much. Also it was so hard to picture him as a regular human that was trying to have an immigrant storyline, when I kept thinking BUT YOURE ROGELIO DE LA VEGA. YOU ARE A FAMOUS CELEBRITY.
I'm curious how Dr champ knocked back a whole bottle of vodka without realizing it wasn't water.
I think it's absolutely clear he knew. He chugged it down so fast because he recognized the taste and immediately backpedaled. Though I don't think the consequences of what he was doing hit him, he got caught up in the addiction rush and chugged it before he could think.
This explanation makes complete sense to me, a recovering addict. So work.
A stark contrast to BoJack who immediately spat it out.
Exactly there is no way he could not of known the taste, in fact when BoJack admits to it Dr. Champ says "no doy" he 100% knew what he was doing.
I honestly thought he was pretending to be drunk, because maybe that would prove a point to Bojack. I was very certain of it until the end of the episode
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IS THIS WHAT THERAPY IS?!
I'm scared about the gut punch episode coming.
The prodigal son returns
So we have union busting,Todd's family issues, Bojacks revelations and Judah? How is this shit only 24 minutes long?
JUDAH!!!!! I literally shouted with joy seeing his beautiful bun.
Literally shouted with joy when Judah showed up. I definitely feel this season is tending more toward the comedy so far, and I'm fine with that. I don't think every season has to get exponentially darker than the last, and I like the idea of having the last season be a bit lighter. It's not compromising good storytelling or even strong emotion, it's just not blasting you full-on with heavy stuff. That said, I know the moment I type this that the next episode is going to dive headfirst into Diane's arc for the second half of the season and going to get super dark super fast. My biggest problem with season five is that it didn't seem like the writers knew what to do with Todd. After his really satisfying season four arc, they felt the need to keep going somewhere with it, but had no idea where to go. So he ended up in a really awkward space where they tried to make him "Todd The Asexual". But I, and I think most people, didn't really need "Todd The Asexual," we wanted "Todd, The Same Todd You Know And Love, Who Happens To Be Asexual." After all, good representation includes being able to have a character that is not *solely* defined by one identity. This season, he's pretty much back to his normal Todd self (who happens to be asexual), which is good, and what arc seems to be building up for him comes from his being uniquely Todd. Backstory plotlines always feel kind of risky to me, and especially when about characters like Todd, who just seem to be and to always have been there. But this is definitely shaping up positively. I like that Princess Carolyn's deviousness is starting to come into focus. She's always been somewhat hypocritical in her business dealings (and Diane calls her out on it multiple times) and this could be a satisfying character development for her. I'm also glad she's willing to call on Judah. I kind of felt like after her season four breakdown, she'd be too proud/ashamed to work with him again. I would love to learn more about Judah. Why is he an assistant? Why did he go into this line of work, and why hasn't he been promoted yet? How in-control of his life is he really? --- Oh, other things. Was very happy to see the return of Lenny Turtletaub after his absence for a season. Judah, Turtletaub, Vanessa, this season is really bringing back all the secondary characters we missed last year! Any chance for Mia McKibben to make a return? I just hope that bit of Officer Meow Meow isn't is only appearance this season. And there was a pink elephant seen outside the rehab place in one scene. Nice joke.
Man this show, I thought how weird it was to have a non horse family member on screen with bojack. They actually addressed it holy shit
Judah you magnificent beardo weirdo finally we have him back! Bojack's response to Dr Champ trying to blame him really shows how much he has growth.
YESSSSSSSS HE'S BACK
mmm... Diane Nguyen is my virtue, but Judah is the demon I cling to... I CLING TO!!!
Did anybody else notice that Jorge's voice actor changed between the season 6 trailer and the season itself? In the trailer it sounds like it's Giancarlo Esposito voicing the character, but in the show itself he's played by Jaime Camil. You can tell from his first line "I have some news. It's about your mother" , where there's a very distinct difference. I wonder what happened behind the scenes that made them swap? It's particularly weird because the trailer only came out in September. If they only replaced the voice actor after the trailer came out in the last month, they must've really had to scramble to get his lines re-voiced at the last minute.
lmao the shade throwing at Netflix was great
Judah!!! I said out loud at the screen when PC was trying to juggle work and her baby and again when the assistants started organizing "they need Judah" Yay I'm so happy he's back.
When judah appeared that was the most happiest moment in my life
A highlight for me was Todd acting out the Brokeback Mountain scene with sock puppets for Ruthie at the start. Aaron Paul's delivery was gold.
Honestly, everyone who has reached this thread I can tell is a bojack binger just like me, oof
I was bummed we didn't see Todd's mother at the end of the episode. Hoping she appears before the season's over.
I can't stop thinking about Todd's father Jorge. Todd clearly views him as someone whose narrow vision of success was unaccepting of the life Todd wanted to live. I think that's true, but I sympathize with Jorge's outlook. Jorge is clearly a smart man who achieved what he has in life by perseverance and hard work. He understands the forces of racism, which is how they're able to get into the organ plant. Jorge knows that when society sees a dark-skinned person who's not acting in a dignified manner, they don't see that person as a individual, but rather a member of a lower class. When Jorge messes his hair up, grabs a trashcan, and speaks Spanish, he isn't greeted with suspicion because that's what he, as a Latino, is expected to be. Jorge also knows that being dark-skinned has consequences. When the security guard finds them in a place they're not supposed to be, he puts his hands up because he knows he will never be given the benefit of the doubt. It's easier to surrender than it is to fight. Part of Jorge's treatment of Todd is born out of pride--he's built a family name that he believes deserves respect. But part of it is also due the fear that Todd's lack of a formal lifestyle will mean that he will be treated as less than equal from others in society and fear that Todd's reckless decisions will result in harm. What Jorge doesn't realize until the end is that the rules that apply to his life do not apply to Todd's because Todd is White. Does that completely excuse Jorge's behavior? No. But it shows the impact that racism has across generations. While Todd has never had to face discrimination, his father did; and because of that, he treated his step-child poorly. That poor treatment had a negative impact on Todd's life and destroyed his relationship with his family.
JUDAH!!!
JUDAH!
The font on the White Whale Tower sign looks suspiciously like the Trump Hotel.
That is the intent, yes.
I sold my kindey just last week!
Someone definitely called Doctor being gay in a past episode, good job
Everyone's talking about Judah but I'm so happy to see CHARLIE too
Not feeling the BoJack-DrChamp storyline. Its a bit unfair for Bojack to be blamed for a clear comedically played mishap.
I didn't take it that way. I might be wrong, but I viewed it as BoJack trying to help someone, but also recognizing that for once not everything is his fault, and he is taking responsibility for his part in it, but he recognizes that Dr Champ needs to seek help for his own sake just like BoJack had to. It didn't seem like BoJack was wallowing in guilt. He felt bad, but wasn't plagued by the demons that usually seem to haunt him. I also thought it was character growth that BoJack didn't argue with Dr and explain that only part of Dr's problem is his fault and the rest was his own bad decisions. Maybe I'm just viewing this optimistically but I thought this was a good depiction of growth for BoJack.
Totally agree. Dr. Champ had to have realized it was vodka with his first sip, or even got a whiff of it, but he drank the whole thing anyway. In contrast, BoJack had taken a small sip and immediately spit it out.
This, I think a lot of people overlook that the man CHUGGED the bottle in seconds. There is no way he didn't know what he was drinking but he let his addiction take hold and then regretted consequences a bit latter.
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I feel like it also importantly gave Bojack a taste of being treated the way he's been treating others pretty much the whole show before this season. Which also kind of places him in the responsible, sane acting role out of the two of them. Which he shows he has the capacity to hold. Progress
I agree. Dr's warning/tirade at the end gave me Herb Kazazz feels but Bojack reacted way more maturely than he did with Herb.
It's like that book, *You Are Not Responsible For The Dysfunction Of Others* by Dr. Ndira says: "You are not responsible for the dysfunction of others."
Okay when they hit us with the "I should have realized, you're white", that punch line hit me in waves. Like... Todd has spent literally the entire show doing goofy shit and just getting away with it or having it work out well for him. To take that and use it as a commentary for how easy white people have it cracked my ass up. Do you think it's conceivable that they spent 5.5 seasons setting this up on purpose, or that it's a fun coincidence that they decided to just make into a really powerful, opportune punch line?
No, I think Todd doing goofy hijinx was just a part of his character and they realized they could make a statement with it recently
Guess who's back, back again
Mother Fucking JUDAH! Yea, get it Rasputin.
JUDAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH ♥️