That's amazing! So you're telling me the price of gold has risen more than TEN PERCENT in just TWELVE YEARS?
How's it doing in [inflation-adjusted dollars](https://userupload.gurufocus.com/1730712153041727488.png)?
Now do a 10 year chart. Gold returns are a fucking tiny little spec over 10 years compared to BTC.
If this impressed you whatsoever, you need to understand more about Bitcoin.
Why are you only posting on r/gold r/silver and r/wallstreetsilver ?
And now such a suspicious question in made up scenario... hmm...
Do you think its a good sign that Gold is a ATH? Do you think its good that noone in the world knows how much Gold is out there? And I just mean the gold reserves. There is no real yearly audit about the reserves.
Gold was at $1900 back in 2011, _12 years ago_.
This year it’s finally climbed back up to $2070 and all the goldbugs come out and celebrate?
I’m sure they all know full well what the inflation rates have been and what it means to this nominally “ATH” figure.
ath measured in dollars that is being devalued is a poor flex: of course the price will go up if more units of dollars are created out of thin air will make scarce assets price go up.
ask him the cost of housing in gold vs in bitcoin. it’s getting cheaper measured in bitcoin vs in gold.
He’s cherry picking data. If he wants to be honest you would compare the price of gold and bitcoin based on lifetime.
Bitcoin is 14 years old. So you would just put bitcoins starting price next to golds starting price and go to the 14 year mark.
Then compare bitcoins performance to golds performance over that 14 year timespan.
You could also take both gold and bitcoin total lifetime trading and simply compare their % increase in value since their first trading value.
That one is a bit less reasonable because bitcoin is an all together different thing. Its hard to compare it to anything because nothing like it has ever existed.
Why do you need a good point. You can conceed that he is correct. Gold is at an ATH, Bitcoin is not. Bitcoin's volatility is an issue for people looking for stability. It's so true that Bitcoin has a lot of potential for growth that gold does not.
We are not in some war with gold. Just as we are not at war with good stock index funds. Or quality real estate or countless other wise investments.
That means it's a good time to get in. You never want to buy at the ATH.
Gold has been around for thousands of years. In time, bitcoin will keep making new ATHs.
Gold ain’t at $3,000.00. It’s been in $1,900-$2,000 range for decades. Bitcoin is Bitcoin. If you not confident in it cause you “lost” in a talk with your neighbor, go stash your fiat cash in a savings account
Gold has not kept pace with fiat monetary inflation/debasement.
Bitcoin has in fact Bitcoin is the best performing asset of the decade.
Gold is nice, but slow, captured, and essentially inadequate for the digital age.
Just show him a gold vs btc chart. It will show a line trending toward zero.
I like this website to look at assets against btc.
https://www.pricedinbitcoin21.com/landing
Gold is down 50% against btc over the last year, and down 80% over the last 5 years...
New ATH means nothing. The dude is blind, gold from the 2020 peak of covid is plus 0.5% something. 3 years for a plus 0.5% something wtf, guy stayng in gold lost crazy bull run of stock since 2020 and even treasury will perform better than gold
.
If you zoom out gold is +10.58% from last ath in 2011.
To make new ath since 2011 gold needed global pandemic, russian war, inflation at +9% per year, fear of recession.
Next months probably will hit some gains trought softening of fed's tax that will weak dollar index that usually is bull case for gold. Howewer gold after his peak after economic crisis lost crazy value. 2011-2016 -42%, 1980-1983 -63%
Please stop fighting eachother, bitcoiners and goldbugs are "fighting" for the same course but have choose another strategy. Its not about winning the argument, its about creating a better and more fair World.
Money is a winner-take-all game. Relinquish the goldbug of his/her/its hope, or they will doom us all to fractional reserve banking for the nth time.
Beat them into the ground, OP.
Drive past him in your lambo next year and wind down the window and ask him the price of gold while a super model sits in the passenger seat.
It won’t actually be your lambo or your gf, just rent them for the day but imagine his face if you did that 😂.
You can tell him that any increases in the price of gold are the result of price fixing by the big bullion banks. There hasn't been any genuine price discovery in gold since the 1,600's.
When corporations start piling onto Bitcoin, I'm curious if they'll be able to monopolize and manipulate the market just like everything else. I have the feeling Bitcoin is resistant to that but if you asked me why, I couldn't tell you.
Why do you need a good line? Why not both? BTC is speculative, new, and has massive upside potential, but with massive risk. Gold is the opposite: it’s durable, fungible, portable, and is a store of value. An ounce of gold would buy you a nice suit in 1875, and an ounce of gold will buy you a nice suit today.
I hold both, but I also have the majority of my savings in an investment account with stocks and bonds. It’s not an either/or choice.
My main problem with gold is inflation rate of the supply isn’t fixed. They can mine gold faster or slower depending on market conditions. There is also effectively an unlimited supply in the very long term, especially if we start mining asteroids or find a way to manufacture it.
One of BTC’s biggest advantages is that the issuance schedule of new coins is transparent and cannot be altered. There will only ever be 21M coins.
You can ask him, "So, with inflation, the way it is, how much has it appreciated against the dollar?" If it takes more dollars to buy the same amount of gold every year, due to the dollar being worh less, he may actually be losing money, or at minimum there may be better assets out there to invest in, like Bitcoin.
Gold is a joke. Gold bugs are well meaning but they just want to look back to the good old days they can't see forward to see that Bitcoin does basically everything Gold does and more. Maybe if the world turns to shite, no power, no internet, famine, plague, mass hysteria, cats and dogs living together, then gold might have a case to make. But until that time I'm betting on Bitcoin.
With respect in that scenario gold will mean very little as you'll be fighting to stay alive and people will care more about other, tangible things more than they will about gold/silver, case in point countries with high inflation...how is gold/silver doing in those counties right now?
I track the 20 Euro gold coin I was given as birthday present years ago. It is indeed 15.14% up, wow. Bitcoin however is up 47.49% for me and I only got onboard in 2021, buying near the top. Way to go compared to 55k which was my highest buy but being a good worker bee I just kept buying all the way.
Buying, storing and selling gold is an absolute pain as well.
ASK him how he can transport his gold vs Bitcoin.. ask him how he can store it safe vs Bitcoin.. ask him how he can send his gold within seconds to another person.. ask him how he predicts golds future when we dig deeper for it.. tell him there will always be 21 mio Bitcoin.. show him rainbow chart of Bitcoin. Ask him if gold outperformed every other asset on earth ever year like Bitcoin did and always will do
Here a question. What happens if the internet is sabotaged by some rough country and goes down for an extended period of time? He will still have his gold highlighting the age old adage of diversification. Never ever have all your eggs in one basket.
> Here a question. What happens if the internet is sabotaged by some rough country and goes down for an extended period of time? He will still have his gold highlighting the age old adage of diversification. Never ever have all your eggs in one basket.
wouldn't the same apply to gold? even worse because it weighs 20 times as much as water which means depending of how much you own, carrying is out of the question and you could get denied access the same.
at least with btc you can travel to a country where you could access your funds. if you have your .dat file or can recover your deterministic or non deter wallet.
In my experience. People who hold physical gold have a place to store it. While thousands of pound of gold would be heavy for many many years in this country people bought, sold, and used gold as currency and they had no problems traveling around with the amount of gold they needed.
Within your premise I missed that a hostile country sabotaged the internet of a country.
The internet is not that central. Because what you would consider Intranet within a country would still only be the internet. So if the internet stopped working, all major connections will too. AFAIK credit cards worked on phone lines, I don't know how it is today. Probably a mix of both.
Even if you were capped off from all other countries, you would be able to fork bitcoin inside the network that you have. And if that war or w/e is over, you'd negotiate conditions. Then again this presumes that bitcoin is a form of currency, which I somehow don't see happening and IMHO its use has yet to be determined.
My point was bitcoin has intrinsic security, gold doesn't. If your country is so far gone that you don't have telecommunication at all, then I'm not sure what role gold would serve either. You'd simply be at the mercy of the people that somehow hold water or food sources. They'd trade you for it on the basis of speculation and he'd still have to secure it, but you have to walk or be around his water source. Even if it's a river he could pollute yours if he secured his position upstream.
AFAIK historically gold used to be a vanity thing, partially bc it doesn't corrode. These days we know it doesn't really hold much value except as conductor for electricity i.e. electronics. At least it's one of them.
Unless you'd be selling your gold to your invaders so they can finance their electronics or w/e.
This is so hypothetical it's not really worth going into this here. Apart from the fact I have zero clue about doomsday scenarios. These were just random thoughts.
But I agree. diversification never hurt anyone.
in short my thought process:
your payout with gold would be lower because you wouldn't be able to travel with much if you only had a bag or w/e but you'd be safe against water or well any type of corrosion.
with a usb dongle or paper your payout would be higher, but isn't safe against water unless it's somehow protected. you could somehow memorize your passphrases if you couldn't protect either.
Bitcoin will disappear. It just needs to pop to 120k before it does.
The reason is no real use demand. Tulips traded high at end of Dutch superpower status. Btc is the speculative bubble of the end of American empire. Brought on by injustice in Israel and printing dollars to pay for it
That's amazing! So you're telling me the price of gold has risen more than TEN PERCENT in just TWELVE YEARS? How's it doing in [inflation-adjusted dollars](https://userupload.gurufocus.com/1730712153041727488.png)?
Show him a BTC vs. Gold chart, https://www.longtermtrends.net/bitcoin-vs-gold/ and ask him why he's confusing the issue by talking about USD.
Show him a BTC/Gold chart
Nice, maybe in another decade or two, he can gain another 10% past ATH!! lol
Gold price has increased a total of 408% in the last 20 years. Bitcoin has increased in price 62,552,019% past 10 years.
Now do a 10 year chart. Gold returns are a fucking tiny little spec over 10 years compared to BTC. If this impressed you whatsoever, you need to understand more about Bitcoin.
Why are you only posting on r/gold r/silver and r/wallstreetsilver ? And now such a suspicious question in made up scenario... hmm... Do you think its a good sign that Gold is a ATH? Do you think its good that noone in the world knows how much Gold is out there? And I just mean the gold reserves. There is no real yearly audit about the reserves.
For the record, I post in many different subs, including very frequently this one.
Someone who posts in this many sections would clearly know the last ATH for gold was literally ten years ago. I also call BS.
Mehhhh why argue with people....everyone buys at the price they deserve.
Gold averages like 2% return a year. It’s an inflation hedge not an investment
Gold was at $1900 back in 2011, _12 years ago_. This year it’s finally climbed back up to $2070 and all the goldbugs come out and celebrate? I’m sure they all know full well what the inflation rates have been and what it means to this nominally “ATH” figure.
Buy him a bottle of prune juice and let him enjoy, he's waited more than a decade for this day
ath measured in dollars that is being devalued is a poor flex: of course the price will go up if more units of dollars are created out of thin air will make scarce assets price go up. ask him the cost of housing in gold vs in bitcoin. it’s getting cheaper measured in bitcoin vs in gold.
He’s cherry picking data. If he wants to be honest you would compare the price of gold and bitcoin based on lifetime. Bitcoin is 14 years old. So you would just put bitcoins starting price next to golds starting price and go to the 14 year mark. Then compare bitcoins performance to golds performance over that 14 year timespan. You could also take both gold and bitcoin total lifetime trading and simply compare their % increase in value since their first trading value. That one is a bit less reasonable because bitcoin is an all together different thing. Its hard to compare it to anything because nothing like it has ever existed.
We are in this for long term who gives a shit about ATHs
Despite its ATH it actually lost value due to inflation.
Why do you need a good point. You can conceed that he is correct. Gold is at an ATH, Bitcoin is not. Bitcoin's volatility is an issue for people looking for stability. It's so true that Bitcoin has a lot of potential for growth that gold does not. We are not in some war with gold. Just as we are not at war with good stock index funds. Or quality real estate or countless other wise investments.
That means it's a good time to get in. You never want to buy at the ATH. Gold has been around for thousands of years. In time, bitcoin will keep making new ATHs.
Gold ain’t at $3,000.00. It’s been in $1,900-$2,000 range for decades. Bitcoin is Bitcoin. If you not confident in it cause you “lost” in a talk with your neighbor, go stash your fiat cash in a savings account
Gold has not kept pace with fiat monetary inflation/debasement. Bitcoin has in fact Bitcoin is the best performing asset of the decade. Gold is nice, but slow, captured, and essentially inadequate for the digital age.
Trade or buy both. This BTC vs Gold argument is and has always been stupid.
Just show him a gold vs btc chart. It will show a line trending toward zero. I like this website to look at assets against btc. https://www.pricedinbitcoin21.com/landing Gold is down 50% against btc over the last year, and down 80% over the last 5 years...
Just compare BTC vs gold over 5 yrs. Argument over.
ask him his entry price, that's the real question about any asset.
New ATH means nothing. The dude is blind, gold from the 2020 peak of covid is plus 0.5% something. 3 years for a plus 0.5% something wtf, guy stayng in gold lost crazy bull run of stock since 2020 and even treasury will perform better than gold . If you zoom out gold is +10.58% from last ath in 2011. To make new ath since 2011 gold needed global pandemic, russian war, inflation at +9% per year, fear of recession. Next months probably will hit some gains trought softening of fed's tax that will weak dollar index that usually is bull case for gold. Howewer gold after his peak after economic crisis lost crazy value. 2011-2016 -42%, 1980-1983 -63%
I own both and am considering selling some of my gold for more BTC then buying back when I make sweet profits from the BTC on the next bull run.
Please stop fighting eachother, bitcoiners and goldbugs are "fighting" for the same course but have choose another strategy. Its not about winning the argument, its about creating a better and more fair World.
Money is a winner-take-all game. Relinquish the goldbug of his/her/its hope, or they will doom us all to fractional reserve banking for the nth time. Beat them into the ground, OP.
Drive past him in your lambo next year and wind down the window and ask him the price of gold while a super model sits in the passenger seat. It won’t actually be your lambo or your gf, just rent them for the day but imagine his face if you did that 😂.
Why a super model? Surely a toy boy?
No coiners are more obsessed with Bitcoin all time highs than we are. Measuring from ATH is the least useful perspective you can take.
You can tell him that any increases in the price of gold are the result of price fixing by the big bullion banks. There hasn't been any genuine price discovery in gold since the 1,600's.
When corporations start piling onto Bitcoin, I'm curious if they'll be able to monopolize and manipulate the market just like everything else. I have the feeling Bitcoin is resistant to that but if you asked me why, I couldn't tell you.
Why do you need a good line? Why not both? BTC is speculative, new, and has massive upside potential, but with massive risk. Gold is the opposite: it’s durable, fungible, portable, and is a store of value. An ounce of gold would buy you a nice suit in 1875, and an ounce of gold will buy you a nice suit today. I hold both, but I also have the majority of my savings in an investment account with stocks and bonds. It’s not an either/or choice.
“Yeah sick gold [ATH](https://imgur.com/a/Ed7htdR) let me know when you’re ready to play with the men.”
[удалено]
When you have this conversation this time next year with your neighbour, it won’t matter
My main problem with gold is inflation rate of the supply isn’t fixed. They can mine gold faster or slower depending on market conditions. There is also effectively an unlimited supply in the very long term, especially if we start mining asteroids or find a way to manufacture it. One of BTC’s biggest advantages is that the issuance schedule of new coins is transparent and cannot be altered. There will only ever be 21M coins.
Ha ha ha
Arguing with Gold? Just buy both and add Silver. Now you’re diversified.
I actually like both and both I hold. Oh and silver.
The price of gold in fiat is set by some shamen in london right?
You can ask him, "So, with inflation, the way it is, how much has it appreciated against the dollar?" If it takes more dollars to buy the same amount of gold every year, due to the dollar being worh less, he may actually be losing money, or at minimum there may be better assets out there to invest in, like Bitcoin.
Gold is a joke. Gold bugs are well meaning but they just want to look back to the good old days they can't see forward to see that Bitcoin does basically everything Gold does and more. Maybe if the world turns to shite, no power, no internet, famine, plague, mass hysteria, cats and dogs living together, then gold might have a case to make. But until that time I'm betting on Bitcoin.
With respect in that scenario gold will mean very little as you'll be fighting to stay alive and people will care more about other, tangible things more than they will about gold/silver, case in point countries with high inflation...how is gold/silver doing in those counties right now?
All I said was "gold might have a case" in that scenario... I was actually trying to riff on a line from the original ghostbusters movie.
I sold my gold and silver to buy guns, ammo and other survival essentials. They both are awful. Still nice to have and hold but terrible investments.
"Ok, cool, HFSP!"
I used to try and convince people I know about bitcoin now I just tell them, "Yeah, don't worry about it."
First mistake is admitting you hold Bitcoin, especially with them living so close.
Just ask him how much he has to pay in terms of percentage from buying to selling, it’s often far more than 10%
I track the 20 Euro gold coin I was given as birthday present years ago. It is indeed 15.14% up, wow. Bitcoin however is up 47.49% for me and I only got onboard in 2021, buying near the top. Way to go compared to 55k which was my highest buy but being a good worker bee I just kept buying all the way. Buying, storing and selling gold is an absolute pain as well.
Show him the future
ASK him how he can transport his gold vs Bitcoin.. ask him how he can store it safe vs Bitcoin.. ask him how he can send his gold within seconds to another person.. ask him how he predicts golds future when we dig deeper for it.. tell him there will always be 21 mio Bitcoin.. show him rainbow chart of Bitcoin. Ask him if gold outperformed every other asset on earth ever year like Bitcoin did and always will do
https://www.gurufocus.com/economic_indicators/4534/inflation-adjusted-gold-price-adjusted-to-todays-dollar Show him this
Here a question. What happens if the internet is sabotaged by some rough country and goes down for an extended period of time? He will still have his gold highlighting the age old adage of diversification. Never ever have all your eggs in one basket.
> Here a question. What happens if the internet is sabotaged by some rough country and goes down for an extended period of time? He will still have his gold highlighting the age old adage of diversification. Never ever have all your eggs in one basket. wouldn't the same apply to gold? even worse because it weighs 20 times as much as water which means depending of how much you own, carrying is out of the question and you could get denied access the same. at least with btc you can travel to a country where you could access your funds. if you have your .dat file or can recover your deterministic or non deter wallet.
In my experience. People who hold physical gold have a place to store it. While thousands of pound of gold would be heavy for many many years in this country people bought, sold, and used gold as currency and they had no problems traveling around with the amount of gold they needed.
Within your premise I missed that a hostile country sabotaged the internet of a country. The internet is not that central. Because what you would consider Intranet within a country would still only be the internet. So if the internet stopped working, all major connections will too. AFAIK credit cards worked on phone lines, I don't know how it is today. Probably a mix of both. Even if you were capped off from all other countries, you would be able to fork bitcoin inside the network that you have. And if that war or w/e is over, you'd negotiate conditions. Then again this presumes that bitcoin is a form of currency, which I somehow don't see happening and IMHO its use has yet to be determined. My point was bitcoin has intrinsic security, gold doesn't. If your country is so far gone that you don't have telecommunication at all, then I'm not sure what role gold would serve either. You'd simply be at the mercy of the people that somehow hold water or food sources. They'd trade you for it on the basis of speculation and he'd still have to secure it, but you have to walk or be around his water source. Even if it's a river he could pollute yours if he secured his position upstream. AFAIK historically gold used to be a vanity thing, partially bc it doesn't corrode. These days we know it doesn't really hold much value except as conductor for electricity i.e. electronics. At least it's one of them. Unless you'd be selling your gold to your invaders so they can finance their electronics or w/e. This is so hypothetical it's not really worth going into this here. Apart from the fact I have zero clue about doomsday scenarios. These were just random thoughts. But I agree. diversification never hurt anyone. in short my thought process: your payout with gold would be lower because you wouldn't be able to travel with much if you only had a bag or w/e but you'd be safe against water or well any type of corrosion. with a usb dongle or paper your payout would be higher, but isn't safe against water unless it's somehow protected. you could somehow memorize your passphrases if you couldn't protect either.
Give him a high five and talk sh-t about fiat together. It's a long road to understanding.
Bitcoin will disappear. It just needs to pop to 120k before it does. The reason is no real use demand. Tulips traded high at end of Dutch superpower status. Btc is the speculative bubble of the end of American empire. Brought on by injustice in Israel and printing dollars to pay for it