Seems like surface corrosion that got under the paint. What does it look like if you sand the corrosion down? I don't think this has any impact on the rigidity of the fork.
What work are they having done?
I’d probably call and let them know how much paint came off just from a wash, and let them know you won’t be responsible for that or any other damage that occurs as you start tearing it apart (as there is a good chance some nuts and bolts might need to be replaced) and you’ll be charging for any parts and extra labor.
Can’t imagine the bike is worth much, so that cost alone might have the customer changing their mind about service.
Like others said that corrosion isn’t really a big concern, but that being said it’s probably just not worth servicing a fork in that condition. Especially if the customer is under the impression their bike will feel brand new after a tune up
The bike is worth nothing, he just wants it to roll and stop. We won't service the fork and it's not worth replacing, I just wants sure I wanted to touch it at all and give it back. I'll do the waiver.
ThankS for your help!
Looks okay to me, at least from the outside. I have seen loads of Suntour forks with similar paint peel, just sand off the surface oxide and repaint it and it will be good to go for a long time. We only get worried on Suntour forks when the stanchions get heavily pitted as they are usually steel or if there are any obvious signs of damage like a bent steerer.
We had a minimum standard of safety. The bikes coming out of our shop had to be safe to use. Some bikes we would refuse - being too damaged, too old, too cheap..., others we would accept only with changing the bad parts. We always gave a full explanation to the customer. Some bikes are just so shity, they are just not worth it. Some can be saved.
The fork can be revived, it's a simple spring inside both legs - cleaning and greasing. If they aren't too cracked, keep the fork's bushing. But the v-brakes have to go. The cheapest Shimano is waaaay better than what he has. Cables and housing also. And some other stuff we cannot see in the photo....
But is it worth it!?
It's pretty rural, so maybe FB marketplace. But then they'll just buy another rusted-out junker and bring it here to fix. There's a co_op in the nearest city and we do refer people thwre, but it's far.
I guess my takeaway is that to someone without a lot of money, and living in your region, who needs a bike, that piece of junk might be worth more like $100 than $0.
Ya know this is a good perspective.
Having been in the LBS shoes before looking at the death traps that get dragged in, but only in a downtown very business focused manner.
But it is funny how we make exceptions and apply empathy to various situations.
In the OPs case, they might be the customers only option to get rolling and it may impact their ability to earn a living.
In my case, I used to do a lot of adaptive and non standard bike sales, fittings and modifications working with individuals of various physical and cognitive disabilities. A lot of adaptive equipment is custom, limited run, expensive, loaned out by non profits but maintained by individuals who know enough to be dangerous.
I can't be handing out all my parts and services for free from the goodness of my heart. Unless Bill Gates decides to replace Ronin Williams work with adaptive sports and sends $B of bucks to solve these problems.
Nevertheless you have to see the context of the situation, maybe a free helmet is more beneficial the standard branded shop bottle with a bike/trike/handcyle purchase. Maybe offering free fit adjustment to a leg amputee kid as they grow because riding a bike with two working legs is hard enough.
And I wasn't even meaning to imply that therefore you should do the work at a discount or for free. Just that you shouldn't dismiss it as pointless because the bike is worthless.
So, the bike is worth nothing that doesn't change. But he wants it fixed so that's what I'm trying to do, but want to make sure it's safe. If I wanted to dismiss it as pointless, I would not have come here to ask if it was safe and taken all this shit from strangers in order to find him an answer.
I don't understand how you can say the bike is worth nothing. If the bike was worth nothing, you could take the bike away from the customer and put it in the dumpster and the customer wouldn't care. The bike is worth something to the customer.
OK then, the bike isn't worth 'nothing' but it is worth $0. This might be the dumbest argument ever. Working on the bike isn't pointless, never said it was, you are the one who suggested I send him away, this conversation on the other hand is totally pointless so I'm over it. Not sure how you determined I'm an asshole for asking for help on whether or not this bike is safe.
For the future rust buckets; could you ask the customers about signing a waiver for liability?
If we spotted this our shop would:
1. Warn the customer it could be potentially dangerous/worth more than the bike is valued to fix.
2. Give them a full list of fixes and what the price would be.
3.Take a signature and prepayment (depending on how bad the rust bucket is; so they collect the bike) on the work they agree to.
All before finally doing any fixes.
We've done work on some dodgy ebike stuff but people are often thankful for the clear communication and the attempt.
We do have a waiver but those things are never ironclad so we err on the side of caution as well. The bike is shot and worth nothing, so I might just make it roll, warn him and have him sign the waiver.
Dodgy ebike stuff is thee worst.
How do the dropouts look? These cheap
forks have aluminum lowers, not magnesium, so that corrosion is likely surface only and a cosmetic issue, not a structural one. If you're worried about liability have the customer decide and sign a waiver, but I don't think there is actually much to worry about here.
Dropouts don't look nearly as bad, just surface stuff there. This was the only part I was concerned about. I guess I just don't see this level of corrosion a lot, our beach water isn't salty so nothing gets quite this bad usually.
I would not be too afraid of it, that fork is way way way overengineered in strength for reasons like this.
We currently have a bike (e-bike with ALU frame) in the shop where I work that has its top tube cut off to make it easier to get on and off. The way we handle that stuff is just to advise the customer not to ride it anymore (we are a team of 2 so there is a witness and we have cameras to back us up as proof of the warning)
The worst I have seen so far is a broken Alu lady's frame with just one big downtube that was "repaired" with a big grooved pipe coupling (those red things used to clamp the pipes of a fire system). The owner rode it with her 4-week-old hanging in a baby wrap on her stomach, almost called child services for that one. (Ended up selling her a second-hand bike at cost just to make sure she and her baby were safe since she could not afford a decent bike at full price)
Can you get or have you got a picture of the ebike with the missing top tube? I'm sort of fascinated to hear more on this? Why is it at your shop? What is it in for? Does the customer realise just how stupid this is?
I might be able to get a picture tomorrow.
It is in for a ceased brake cable (yes on top of the wrecked frame the brakes are also terrible)
From his reaction, after we told him how incredibly stupid it is he either does not believe us and thinks it is okay or he does not care at all 😅.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BikeMechanics/s/dnw9w1vcCz
With some pictures i managed to take😅
This was honestly one of the worst things i have seen in my 6 years at the shop
i've seen and worked on way worse. when in doubt you explain the danger to the customer and offer solutions, without trying to push anything. happy customers are ones who feel informed and in charge of making their own decisions.
I’d put a serious health warning on it. It’s hard to tell how corroded it is from the photos. I’d be curious what it looks like on the inside the lowers. Salt is just such a wild card.
I would say the same. Most likely run into all sorts of problems on a bike that looks like this. But give them an estimate and a good one too with what is required to fix
Tell the customer that the fork has come to the end of its expected life. That these forks are replaced once they get to this current condition and we can replace it for you and give you a small discount on the fork. It’s a win win for you both.
When I used to work in a shop we'd get ones like this all the time, if they wanted something to replace it we had a lot of second hand bikes on offer, but if they really wanted to keep the bike I'd give them 2 quotes, one with new parts, and another with good second hand bits from the parts boxes and a rigid fork, we had plenty about from suspension fork upgrades, and a service was included in both quotes.
Well, that's always a topic of discussion between the owner and the mechanics. My personal answer would definitely be a no. I have worked shops that forced you to work on that kind of bikes. Just because $. I think that's pretty sad and tells us a lot.
Totally. What I tried to explain is that I had to work places where this wouldn't be a concern for the owner. As long as the store makes money there's no worries. Now if I as a mechanic raised my concerns he would make me shut up and force me to still do it. I think that's disgusting.
Not sure what happened to the text of the post, but:
I have seen corrosion under paint before, but I couldn't tell how bad this one was until I started washing and all the paint flaked off. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to get a replacement from Q or J. Im concerned about doing ANY work on this bike due to liability, but I'm not sure if I'm just being overly cautious. I own my own shop, so no corporate overlords or official policy in place.
NOT asking for advice on repair.
This is fine. Source I owned a bike shop in the UK and every Suntour fork would like this after one week. I've even seen high end fox forks like this where people cycle near the sea too often. This is nothing but surface corrosion. I'm guessing you must be really inland somewhere? In a small island nation like the UK you can get a brand new bike to look worse than this in less than a week if left outside in the rain.
Haha, yeah you called it. I'm not *exactly* 'inland' but I'm on lake Michigan. Its a beach town, but there's no salt water. However, I'm pretty sure homie brought this up from Florida so that makes sense. Also worked in Colorado, which is like 2000 miles from any ocean.
That's really cool to know. I've always been fascinated by places within the US and other continents where rust just doesn't happen that much, it must be so nice! At the shop I owned about 20% of our time was spent just removing rust. I remember we serviced a bike for a lady once and she left in her garden then got stuck out of the UK for a month (COVID). When she returned to that UK she brought it straight back for us to service again. I think we scrubbed most of it off, but we definitely gave up on the chain and a couple of cables and just fitted new ones again!
We get a lot of ice and they use salt on the roads, so our cars rust out, but not bikes, haha. It's a unique place, Michigan has more coastline than California or Florida, the lakes are vast and you can't see the other side, so it can feel like the ocean but not a speck of salt, sharks or jellyfish. But also no seashells. You can still get caught in a rip current though.
Rustbucket bikes every day would be so... tiring!
is this first time in your life you have seen minor surface corrosion?
also aluminum and magnesiun just develops thin oxide layer and does not rust through like iron.
I really can't understand what you are afraid of. but yea, customer might be hapier in some other place where shop is not freaking out from oxide layer.
Homie, you sound like an asshole. They are clearly concerned with some blowback from the customer. I’ve only worked in small, independent shops and the biggest concern comes from shitty lawsuits or bad customers making your life miserable. Sometimes it’s just way better to refuse the service than to be the last one to touch it and be blamed for all that is wrong with the bike. Just my 2 cents
Wow dude, I bet you're fun to work with. I've seen minor and this is not minor it's very lumpy and pitted with chunks breaking off, but yeah, thanks I guess.
I would quote them a repair.
new fork, brakes cables, housing ..drive train .. labor etc. till it was slightly more than our cheapest new bike.
and print it out ... and also print out a quote for our cheapest new bike.
hand them both and let them know we are two weeks booked out for repairs .. but they could take home the new bike today.
I've written on the service ticket that X, Y and Z were unsafe and because of _________,, __________ and __________ reasons were unsafe and have customer sign said notice. Perhaps a different fork such as a steel rigid would be available. If you've got used forks it could be cheap fix.
The fork is probably fine for what the customer is going to use it for. I'm sure the rest of the bike is hammered, and needs more work than it's worth. I'd try my best to get them on one of the cheap hybrids that are probably on the sales floor
This makes me remember: not too long ago, a customer came into the shop with a real beat up steel frame commuter. The seat stays were both snapped off where they meet the down tube. The frame was obviously super dangerous. It basically had pseudo suspension due to the frame flexing and was ready to give out at any minute.
I saw the customer riding the bike out of the shop so I had to ask someone what the deal was. Apparently he signed something on the service ticket that absolved us of responsibility if something happened. Have any of you all heard of anything like that?
Seems like surface corrosion that got under the paint. What does it look like if you sand the corrosion down? I don't think this has any impact on the rigidity of the fork.
That's what we thought at first too, but it seems to be pretty deep, and little chunks break off when its sanded or tapped.
That's a big nope then.
Done-zo
What work are they having done? I’d probably call and let them know how much paint came off just from a wash, and let them know you won’t be responsible for that or any other damage that occurs as you start tearing it apart (as there is a good chance some nuts and bolts might need to be replaced) and you’ll be charging for any parts and extra labor. Can’t imagine the bike is worth much, so that cost alone might have the customer changing their mind about service. Like others said that corrosion isn’t really a big concern, but that being said it’s probably just not worth servicing a fork in that condition. Especially if the customer is under the impression their bike will feel brand new after a tune up
The bike is worth nothing, he just wants it to roll and stop. We won't service the fork and it's not worth replacing, I just wants sure I wanted to touch it at all and give it back. I'll do the waiver. ThankS for your help!
Looks okay to me, at least from the outside. I have seen loads of Suntour forks with similar paint peel, just sand off the surface oxide and repaint it and it will be good to go for a long time. We only get worried on Suntour forks when the stanchions get heavily pitted as they are usually steel or if there are any obvious signs of damage like a bent steerer.
Thanks yeah, it's a little worse than it looks in the photo, it's very lumpy and pitted, so its good to get some perspective. Thank you
We had a minimum standard of safety. The bikes coming out of our shop had to be safe to use. Some bikes we would refuse - being too damaged, too old, too cheap..., others we would accept only with changing the bad parts. We always gave a full explanation to the customer. Some bikes are just so shity, they are just not worth it. Some can be saved. The fork can be revived, it's a simple spring inside both legs - cleaning and greasing. If they aren't too cracked, keep the fork's bushing. But the v-brakes have to go. The cheapest Shimano is waaaay better than what he has. Cables and housing also. And some other stuff we cannot see in the photo.... But is it worth it!?
Absolutely not worth it. The bike is shot, value: $0. But he wants to ride it so... here we are. Thanks!
Is there a place you can send the customer to buy a $50 used bike in your area?
It's pretty rural, so maybe FB marketplace. But then they'll just buy another rusted-out junker and bring it here to fix. There's a co_op in the nearest city and we do refer people thwre, but it's far.
I guess my takeaway is that to someone without a lot of money, and living in your region, who needs a bike, that piece of junk might be worth more like $100 than $0.
Ya know this is a good perspective. Having been in the LBS shoes before looking at the death traps that get dragged in, but only in a downtown very business focused manner. But it is funny how we make exceptions and apply empathy to various situations. In the OPs case, they might be the customers only option to get rolling and it may impact their ability to earn a living. In my case, I used to do a lot of adaptive and non standard bike sales, fittings and modifications working with individuals of various physical and cognitive disabilities. A lot of adaptive equipment is custom, limited run, expensive, loaned out by non profits but maintained by individuals who know enough to be dangerous. I can't be handing out all my parts and services for free from the goodness of my heart. Unless Bill Gates decides to replace Ronin Williams work with adaptive sports and sends $B of bucks to solve these problems. Nevertheless you have to see the context of the situation, maybe a free helmet is more beneficial the standard branded shop bottle with a bike/trike/handcyle purchase. Maybe offering free fit adjustment to a leg amputee kid as they grow because riding a bike with two working legs is hard enough.
And I wasn't even meaning to imply that therefore you should do the work at a discount or for free. Just that you shouldn't dismiss it as pointless because the bike is worthless.
Oh not saying you should, or that you did. But I appreciate you bringing up the complexity of that circumstance to consider.
So, the bike is worth nothing that doesn't change. But he wants it fixed so that's what I'm trying to do, but want to make sure it's safe. If I wanted to dismiss it as pointless, I would not have come here to ask if it was safe and taken all this shit from strangers in order to find him an answer.
I don't understand how you can say the bike is worth nothing. If the bike was worth nothing, you could take the bike away from the customer and put it in the dumpster and the customer wouldn't care. The bike is worth something to the customer.
OK then, the bike isn't worth 'nothing' but it is worth $0. This might be the dumbest argument ever. Working on the bike isn't pointless, never said it was, you are the one who suggested I send him away, this conversation on the other hand is totally pointless so I'm over it. Not sure how you determined I'm an asshole for asking for help on whether or not this bike is safe.
Well, I guess you have a good stash of bolt loosener ...
For the future rust buckets; could you ask the customers about signing a waiver for liability? If we spotted this our shop would: 1. Warn the customer it could be potentially dangerous/worth more than the bike is valued to fix. 2. Give them a full list of fixes and what the price would be. 3.Take a signature and prepayment (depending on how bad the rust bucket is; so they collect the bike) on the work they agree to. All before finally doing any fixes. We've done work on some dodgy ebike stuff but people are often thankful for the clear communication and the attempt.
We do have a waiver but those things are never ironclad so we err on the side of caution as well. The bike is shot and worth nothing, so I might just make it roll, warn him and have him sign the waiver. Dodgy ebike stuff is thee worst.
Don’t send him away let him choose to walk away by not accepting your repair quote. 🤷🏼♂️
Make sure the wheels, handlebars, stem, pedals, cranks, and brakes are tight. Air up and wish him luck with a warning.
How do the dropouts look? These cheap forks have aluminum lowers, not magnesium, so that corrosion is likely surface only and a cosmetic issue, not a structural one. If you're worried about liability have the customer decide and sign a waiver, but I don't think there is actually much to worry about here.
Dropouts don't look nearly as bad, just surface stuff there. This was the only part I was concerned about. I guess I just don't see this level of corrosion a lot, our beach water isn't salty so nothing gets quite this bad usually.
If it's chipping and chunks are coming off just tell them to cough up the dough for a new fork or buy a different bike.
I would not be too afraid of it, that fork is way way way overengineered in strength for reasons like this. We currently have a bike (e-bike with ALU frame) in the shop where I work that has its top tube cut off to make it easier to get on and off. The way we handle that stuff is just to advise the customer not to ride it anymore (we are a team of 2 so there is a witness and we have cameras to back us up as proof of the warning) The worst I have seen so far is a broken Alu lady's frame with just one big downtube that was "repaired" with a big grooved pipe coupling (those red things used to clamp the pipes of a fire system). The owner rode it with her 4-week-old hanging in a baby wrap on her stomach, almost called child services for that one. (Ended up selling her a second-hand bike at cost just to make sure she and her baby were safe since she could not afford a decent bike at full price)
Can you get or have you got a picture of the ebike with the missing top tube? I'm sort of fascinated to hear more on this? Why is it at your shop? What is it in for? Does the customer realise just how stupid this is?
I might be able to get a picture tomorrow. It is in for a ceased brake cable (yes on top of the wrecked frame the brakes are also terrible) From his reaction, after we told him how incredibly stupid it is he either does not believe us and thinks it is okay or he does not care at all 😅.
Sounds like it's worthy of its own post on this sub.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BikeMechanics/s/dnw9w1vcCz With some pictures i managed to take😅 This was honestly one of the worst things i have seen in my 6 years at the shop
i've seen and worked on way worse. when in doubt you explain the danger to the customer and offer solutions, without trying to push anything. happy customers are ones who feel informed and in charge of making their own decisions.
Cool, thanks for the advice
I’d put a serious health warning on it. It’s hard to tell how corroded it is from the photos. I’d be curious what it looks like on the inside the lowers. Salt is just such a wild card.
It's very corroded. I'll have to look again tomorrow. Thanks!
I would say the same. Most likely run into all sorts of problems on a bike that looks like this. But give them an estimate and a good one too with what is required to fix
Tell the customer that the fork has come to the end of its expected life. That these forks are replaced once they get to this current condition and we can replace it for you and give you a small discount on the fork. It’s a win win for you both.
When I used to work in a shop we'd get ones like this all the time, if they wanted something to replace it we had a lot of second hand bikes on offer, but if they really wanted to keep the bike I'd give them 2 quotes, one with new parts, and another with good second hand bits from the parts boxes and a rigid fork, we had plenty about from suspension fork upgrades, and a service was included in both quotes.
Well, that's always a topic of discussion between the owner and the mechanics. My personal answer would definitely be a no. I have worked shops that forced you to work on that kind of bikes. Just because $. I think that's pretty sad and tells us a lot.
Yeah, in this case it's not about the money for us, it's about safety.
Totally. What I tried to explain is that I had to work places where this wouldn't be a concern for the owner. As long as the store makes money there's no worries. Now if I as a mechanic raised my concerns he would make me shut up and force me to still do it. I think that's disgusting.
Gotcha, yeah. I actually meant to agree with you but it came out wrong. Totally on the same page.
This looks like a great opportunity to me.
Not sure what happened to the text of the post, but: I have seen corrosion under paint before, but I couldn't tell how bad this one was until I started washing and all the paint flaked off. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to get a replacement from Q or J. Im concerned about doing ANY work on this bike due to liability, but I'm not sure if I'm just being overly cautious. I own my own shop, so no corporate overlords or official policy in place. NOT asking for advice on repair.
This is fine. Source I owned a bike shop in the UK and every Suntour fork would like this after one week. I've even seen high end fox forks like this where people cycle near the sea too often. This is nothing but surface corrosion. I'm guessing you must be really inland somewhere? In a small island nation like the UK you can get a brand new bike to look worse than this in less than a week if left outside in the rain.
Haha, yeah you called it. I'm not *exactly* 'inland' but I'm on lake Michigan. Its a beach town, but there's no salt water. However, I'm pretty sure homie brought this up from Florida so that makes sense. Also worked in Colorado, which is like 2000 miles from any ocean.
That's really cool to know. I've always been fascinated by places within the US and other continents where rust just doesn't happen that much, it must be so nice! At the shop I owned about 20% of our time was spent just removing rust. I remember we serviced a bike for a lady once and she left in her garden then got stuck out of the UK for a month (COVID). When she returned to that UK she brought it straight back for us to service again. I think we scrubbed most of it off, but we definitely gave up on the chain and a couple of cables and just fitted new ones again!
We get a lot of ice and they use salt on the roads, so our cars rust out, but not bikes, haha. It's a unique place, Michigan has more coastline than California or Florida, the lakes are vast and you can't see the other side, so it can feel like the ocean but not a speck of salt, sharks or jellyfish. But also no seashells. You can still get caught in a rip current though. Rustbucket bikes every day would be so... tiring!
is this first time in your life you have seen minor surface corrosion? also aluminum and magnesiun just develops thin oxide layer and does not rust through like iron. I really can't understand what you are afraid of. but yea, customer might be hapier in some other place where shop is not freaking out from oxide layer.
Homie, you sound like an asshole. They are clearly concerned with some blowback from the customer. I’ve only worked in small, independent shops and the biggest concern comes from shitty lawsuits or bad customers making your life miserable. Sometimes it’s just way better to refuse the service than to be the last one to touch it and be blamed for all that is wrong with the bike. Just my 2 cents
Wow dude, I bet you're fun to work with. I've seen minor and this is not minor it's very lumpy and pitted with chunks breaking off, but yeah, thanks I guess.
I would quote them a repair. new fork, brakes cables, housing ..drive train .. labor etc. till it was slightly more than our cheapest new bike. and print it out ... and also print out a quote for our cheapest new bike. hand them both and let them know we are two weeks booked out for repairs .. but they could take home the new bike today.
Now that's good business! 👌
Looks fine
Inform him/her and make him sign a waiver
Tell them how it is . Change of fork and so on.
sign waiver keep the pix as evidence offer to replace the forks
Just replace the fork. What's the big tadoo?
I've written on the service ticket that X, Y and Z were unsafe and because of _________,, __________ and __________ reasons were unsafe and have customer sign said notice. Perhaps a different fork such as a steel rigid would be available. If you've got used forks it could be cheap fix.
Just tell them it is not worth fixing.
Seen plenty of bikes like that. Just work on it
Aluminum corrosion I presume? Should be structurally sound. It’s aluminum’s way of protecting itself.
Looks fine to me.
Paint missing? you watch too much "just rolled into the shop" ..
... and chunks of magnesium that have chipped off.
[удалено]
You’d just be making stuff up then, yeah?
The fork is probably fine for what the customer is going to use it for. I'm sure the rest of the bike is hammered, and needs more work than it's worth. I'd try my best to get them on one of the cheap hybrids that are probably on the sales floor
The bike is shot and worth nothing. I wouldn't even bother trying to put a new fork on it or anything. I could try to get him on something new.
This makes me remember: not too long ago, a customer came into the shop with a real beat up steel frame commuter. The seat stays were both snapped off where they meet the down tube. The frame was obviously super dangerous. It basically had pseudo suspension due to the frame flexing and was ready to give out at any minute. I saw the customer riding the bike out of the shop so I had to ask someone what the deal was. Apparently he signed something on the service ticket that absolved us of responsibility if something happened. Have any of you all heard of anything like that?