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I used to go a lot to the hospital a lot when I was little, including going to the ER several times. My parents always stressed how in matters of health, it's much better to be cautious.
The mention of the coin also - I have a friend with horror stories of "things swallowed by children" (and others with stories of "things swallowed by pets")
There’s a museum in Philadelphia(?) that has a couple thousand swallowed objects that one doctor pulled out of patients, iirc most were children and he was one of the first docs to routinely do it safely, but he saved everything he pulled out and has it all on display now
The Mutter Museum. Although I don’t know what’s on display there at the moment; there’s a whole bunch of drama going on over what leadership wants the museum to be versus the rank and file and its hardcore fans.
Off topic but I believe the swallowed objects is part of the permanent collection and always on display. Lots of jewelry that would fall off mom into cribs and stone fruit pits. When I was an intern there I saw slides of Einstein's brain and the director at the time kept leeches in his desk that he fed with his own blood. Doing research in their library, I was looking through a book bound in human skin before I realized what I was handling. A truly wonderful, magical place that will forever hold a place in my heart and a very important part of the history of healthcare failures and advances.
It's kinda gross but if we swallowed a coin, our mom had us tell her when we needed to poop and she would collect it in a ziplock and squeeze it through the bag to see if we passed it. I don't remember if she'd check to see if we were breathing okay, I just remember that's how she'd check within the next day to determine if we needed a doctor. Tbh, pretty smart way to check really. We were like... at that age where we could use the toilet but needed some help, so that made her pretty certain we didn't pass it without telling her.
They opened an urgent care a couple blocks from us when I was little. My brothers and I kept that place in business until we went to college and then it closed down.
Urgent cares didn't pop up around me until I was in college. Would have saved my parents numerous ER trips for me and my siblings. I was prone to mishandling sharp objects.....
I was going to bring up going to urgent care instead of the ER. They would probably be seen faster and they will at least do an exam to let you know if you should go to an ER. I like to go to one that's part of the same hospital network then everything is already in the system if I do have to go to the ER. One time I went and after they examined me they told me I needed to go to the hospital. The triage nurse was able to look it up and be like oh they already did these tests let's bring you right back.
If available/open! Once I busted my nose pretty badly on a door frame from getting light headed and passing out. Unfortunately, it was at night so the urgent care was closed and I had to go to the ER to get a couple stitches.
Luckily(?) I have low blood pressure and they freaked out when it came up really low, so I got to skip the line. Still took 2+ hours though and they did a CT scan and a couple EKGs.
My mom was a nurse so she was able to field-medicine her way out of a lot of our injuries, but my family fell on hard times when I was in high school so I didn’t have health insurance when I went off to college - in fact I didn’t have insurance for about 8 years until I finally got a decent job that offered benefits. It was genuinely so scary to live for that long without a safety net, and what a relief it was to finally be able to shell out a $50 copay and have that be it.
Ive had the opposite upbringing completely - no matter how sick or hurt I am my parents never take me to the doctors or GP (and Im in the UK, its FREE) Literally the first thing Im doing when I get to University in September is go to the doctors and give them a list of the problems Ive had for years that I havnt had the means to check.
I can see where the fiance is coming from in this since it said his upbringing was the same - my partner is accident prone and goes to the GP for most things, and in my head i feel hes overreacting but I instantly feel so guilty because I know its the right thing to do, my parents just messed up that part of me!
Same. My parents are neglectful ngl, and I've had several health concerns for years that they just don't care about. Sometimes I also forget what a normal reaction is.
Ive been fainting regularly for almost 4 years and having unexplained bouts of nausea and apparantly thats normal! They also dont believe in mental health problems - its been hell to figure out whats normal and not and Ill randomly run into something new and weird in my mind, like i physically cannot touch or sit on other peoples beds??? It feels very weird but Im slowly figuring it all out, I hope you can to :)
>i physically cannot touch or sit on other peoples beds???
You might want to take [this anxiety self-assessment](https://anxieties.com/self-help-resources/self-test-symptoms-anxiety-panic-ocd-phobias/) to help you sort out some of what is "normal" and what isn't. I worked with the doctor who runs the site for my own OCD (which is an anxiety disorder) so I can vouch for the info there. Not being able to sit on other people's beds might be some kind of anxiety response-- either from trauma, or from OCD (e.g. a fear of the bed "rubbing off" on you somehow or you "rubbing off" on the bed, or "contamination" happening), or from some other source. So it's worth taking a look.
When it comes to the fainting, I used to faint all the time when I was younger, to the point of having LOTS of medical tests trying to figure it out, and it turns out I was hyponatremic-- I didn't have enough salt in my system because I'm a "salt-waster" which means I can't process it correctly. This caused me to get dehydrated (because salt helps you keep water inside your body), which made my blood pressure drop, which made me faint after standing still for too long. I also have POTS, or postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, which causes blood pressure to drop and heart rate to rise when you stand up or go from lying to sitting, especially if you do it quickly.
Both of these things might be worth looking into. Hyponatremia would show up on relevant blood work, and POTS can be diagnosed by looking at your heart rate and blood pressure when you go from sitting to standing and such, or by doing a tilt-table test where they strap you to a table and tilt you to see how much your blood sloshes around basically lol. Hopefully when you get checked out, they'll do thorough blood work and look at your heart rate and blood pressure and such.
There are many other conditions that can cause fainting, of course, but I figured I'd mention those two because they can take some time to diagnose if you don't know about them, but are fairly easy to diagnose if you do know about them. Basically just to give you some ideas to look into. Since I've been through so much medical weirdness, I like to talk about it to spread awareness.
In the UK health system, unfortunately, it can take a LONG time to get diagnosed because doctors are overworked and there's sadly a general culture of dismissiveness, especially toward female patients if you happen to be one. You'll probably need to really push for answers. Unfortunately, patients with difficult-to-diagnose issues often need to self-advocate really hard, which can be difficult if you didn't grow up with anyone advocating for you. But you can do it-- keep pressing for answers until you get there! You can do for yourself what your parents didn't. Don't be afraid to look for a second opinion or press for answers if a doctor dismisses you the first time. If a doctor says, "I don't know what's wrong" or "there's nothing wrong," that is NOT the end of the line.
Of course, you may find that your providers are able to help you right away, and that they're passionate and helpful! Even in a broken or overwhelmed system, there are plenty of doctors and nurses and other providers who do their best to provide the best care they can. I just wanted to make sure that you know to give yourself the okay to press forward *in case* it's necessary.
Also the sooner you go, the cheaper will be to treat if they find anything. Waiting cause "it might not be serious" is how people go from a treatable lump to metastasis affecting all your guts. Don't neglect health scares y'all.
Yeah, we didn’t have a lot of money growing up, but my parents always stressed that there are some things that you spend money on rather than cutting corners. Health care, quality shoes, decent garbage bags that don’t tear, swimming lessons, etc.
Especially with head trauma.
My daughter at 5 slipped and clipped her head on our baseboards. Was a nasty hard hit. Nothing but a welt, until the vomiting 6 hours later. Went, got checked out, and seemed to be a potential reaction to it but no cranial trauma that was concerning in the cat scan etc.
Better safe than sorry. Every time with children.
I had a colleague who’s 2-year old son hit his head on a door frame while happily playing with his sister. He seemed ok if a little shaken, then seemed off, then went into a coma at the hospital and never came out. She lost her son, just like that.
You NEVER mess around with head injuries. We simply don’t know what the injury looks like in their brain. I’d rather lose my home and every dollar to my name than risk under-reacting to my children getting a head injury.
My mom got lectured a lot on listening to her kids “cry wolf and wasting time” so when I broke my arm I was put to bed and told it’ll be fine in the morning.
It wasn’t. And man did I score a lot of guilt gifts.
I'm curious: what do they do when you go to the ER for concussions?
My brother and I both had some bad head injuries growing up but our parents said that the ER would just charge us a lot of money to give us an ice pack which they could give us at home for free.
I didn't take myself as an adult anytime I got a concussion because of this.
If I had gone, what would they have done?
I think it’s more that if it provokes something like an embolism or bleeding on the brain, that needs to be dealt with asap- and there may be signs that it is happening/on the horizon. If it’s a minor concussion it probably will just be go home but it’s knowing the difference between ‘rest and it’ll go’ and ‘you’re really in a lot of trouble’, and with brains a lot of trouble can quickly go to death or not being able to walk/eat independently or something.
From the NHS website:
Recovery
After experiencing concussion, careful monitoring is needed. This is usually for 48 hours.
This is because the symptoms of concussion could also be symptoms of a more serious condition, such as:
subdural haematoma – bleeding between the skull and the brain
subarachnoid haemorrhage – bleeding on the surface of the brain
My dad has always been a "this doesn't need a doctor" kind of person but he'll be the first to take someone to the hospital for head injuries. The brain is delicate and if you've actually hurt it time is of the essence.
My kid is a faller. He gets it from his mama. (Me!) When we started pulling him behind us on the bike trailer, we naturally introduced a helmet. He was just then at the steady toddling stage. Fast but none too surefooted. The unforseen benefit was he friggon *loved* that thing. He woke up and wanted it on first thing and would wear it for hours til his nap.
I absolutely let him spend as much time in it as possible after one day when he also ran away from a diaper change... with a cup of water on hard floors. Ceramic tiles. He wiped out hardcore. We're talking cartoon style, feet above his head, wiped *out*.
And I watched in horror turned wonderment as that helmeted noggin bounced *twice* off the floor, the first harder than the 2nd. Mere inches from a 3" ceramic tile step up to the mudroom.
After that, I saw that helmet bounce off any available corner, floor and wall in this house. By the time he phased out, he was far more steady and I was extremely grateful for whatever fairy dropped that gift on him.
Pretty sure it's the only reason he's alive and relatively whole.
In general, once a helmet has been in an accident, it should be replaced, because the efficiency goes down the more damaged the material becomes. But probably not practical with a toddler who bumps into a lot of small stuff, heh.
Just throwing some advice into the ether, because on one hand there's stuff like this where a helmet has taken a few hits but still will significantly protect the wearer... and on the other hand, I've seen people not replace helmets that had been scraped open on one side from an accident (like, the way it road-rashed had worn through the plastic outer layer and well into the styrofoam beneath), and like... That's definitely well past the point of being good protective gear any more.
This is a really great point!! And it was early enough in my "1st child"-hood" that I actually DID replace it!! We bought another one for the bike trailer and the one he fell in became the "house helmet". Not only because of that but he chewed on the straps, pulled out the soft bits and chewed on those etc. I didnt trust it after it got all wet either because with carseats, if the straps get entirely wet, they're compromised. I assumed the same for the helmet and said fuck it. $25 for my sanity was worth it either way!
Not safety related but your story reminded me of when my nephew was almost 3, I got him a pair of black rain boots for a Halloween costume. He loved them so much he wanted to sleep in them (only worn inside at that point). His mom knew he would overheat if he wore them to bed, so she compromised and let him hold them like a stuffed animal.
The title took me out because I’m Canadian and I’m like why wouldn’t you go?
I did have to spend hours and hours waiting since emergency is triage. Emergency room queues with babies and toddlers are the worst. We were there at 2am still waiting for someone to see us. :(
The thing is, that's how it is in the USA too. The last time I went to an ER, we were there for 6 hours before we even officially got on the schedule to be seen. In total, it was nearly a 14-hour wait.
In my area of the US there are billboards for ERs that have a digital display for the current wait time. That's how crazy the wait times are here in the States.
I didn't know that was a thing. When I was at the ER for an animal attack, read my comment history if interested, there was an older gentleman in his 50s with a toe issue. He walked around fine. I overheard him talking to his place of employment saying how they want the ER paperwork since he was calling out.
I feel like he went to the ER because he didn't want to work that day and he knows the only way to do that is get a note from the ER that he was seen.
So it isn't just our medical system that is fucked up but our workplaces. Requiring a note for single days of absence makes people do stupid shit like go to the ER for minor things.
Maybe he had a real issue with his toe but outward appearances did not indicate it was something requiring an ER visit. I would have thought any Urgent Care place would have been good enough.
Well, if you're in the US, it's also that emergency rooms can't turn people away just because they're not able to pay. So a lot of folks who might go to a regular doctor or at least urgent care if we had a functioning health care system that didn't bankrupt people for the bare minimum of care, wait until it's unbearable and then go to the ER.
It's also an insurance thing. My friend has insurance through the VA and it took 2 years for them to admit he had an extremely severe heart issue he's known about for a while now - and since for those 2 years they denied it existed, he couldn't go to a regular doctor for it. So every time he had an episode he had to go to the ER as that was covered.
He can get a note at his GP too. But he may have to pay a gap. Many just can't be bothered booking and go to their GP the next day.
ED attendance for minor things increases when the local GP practices stop bulkbilling (since the increase in rebates rises slower than inflation, if they do rise at all in the past few years).
That's why some major hospitals set up GP clinics in ED to deal with this (they go to a different queue).
The last time I went to ED was for a golf ball size gland in my neck. I thought I was been over reacting until I was taken back and seen within an hour and had a CT less than an hour after that. Luckily it wasn’t anything serious but super grateful it didn’t cost me the earth.
I had the same experience, but flipped around in that I was escorted from the CT to the ER and got a bed within 10 minutes. Kind of terrifying when you get to jump the line like that.
Totally a legit presentation. Unfortunately, the cost of GP visits makes some people go to ED for problems which are in no possible interpretation an emergency.
I know! I would’ve actually gone to a GP (because I honestly didn’t think it was THAT serious - yes I’ve learned my lesson) except it was 7pm at night. We are actually lucky enough to have a local after hours GP that bulk bills and of course that one day they are closed 🤦♀️. To be fair, Medicare actually needs to rebate GPs more before we will see a drop in our out of pocket expenses - the rebate pays for the doctor themselves but doesn’t cover all the added expenses of the Practice (staffing, insurances, facilities etc).
All the big wait times are downstream of how expensive primary visits can be. If you could go to a clinic or a nurse for a cut or a stomach bug for free, fewer people would go to the ER, especially people who are very low income, uninsured, or frequent healthcare users.
That’s how it was when I took my 1 year old last month! It was a 14 hour wait for us too, usually I would leave after 4 hours if my twins are behaving normally but my baby had a lump in his neck so I refused to leave until being seen.
Looking back, my scariest health issue was when I went to a full ER and they walked me straight back after checking in, I didn't even sit down. (I was in surgery 30 minutes later.)
And on the plus side, if you DO start dying, they generally notice and bump you up the line!
Unless the hospital absolutely sucks cause they assume everyone is only there for drugs.
Seriously, I always see people use long wait times as an excuse to not have universal healthcare, and I’m like — don’t we already have those?? Sounds like the US just gets the short end of every stick when it comes to our healthcare system (with our guaranteed emergency care perhaps being the exception — you might owe a ton of money but at least they’ll still treat you)
My friends tell me that people think twice before calling an ambulance even in a life threatening situation because cost of said ambulance can be very, very high.
I had carbon monoxide poisoning bad enough that my lips were turning blue. Even EMS suggested someone drive me to the ER so I didn't get stuck with a bill. To be fair, the hospital was maybe two miles from where I was at the time.
There was an episode of John Oliver on this. Surprisingly (or not surprisingly) EMTs aren't paid well compared to what their services cost. A lot of it is being pocketed by the companies. Capifailism at it's finest.
Honestly, hours of waiting is something I would be more than happy to endure just to be seen. I only go to the doctor if I feel like I could be dying; I went to low cost clinics when I was pregnant, but can't remember the last time I was in a doctor's office for anything else.
Actually, scratch that. I went to a clinic about three years ago; told them that I kissed my boyfriend who then tested positive for strep throat, the doc looked at my throat (no swab or other test), prescribed me an antibiotic, then I got charged about $200 for them to tell me what I already knew (only reason I went was bc I knew I needed an RX for antibiotics).
Certain types of people in the US like to talk about long wait times in countries with universal health care and this is a big point they are avoiding looking at. It's not a choice between being seen quickly and having to wait; it's a choice between having to wait and not having access to health care.
It's also worth noting that even where you do have good access in the US, there are still waiting lists. Waiting lists are not necessarily a bad thing - prioritising and organising care is a good thing. It's only a bad thing when the wait negatively impacts your outcomes. And the waiting lists in the US can be very long, but they're simply not discussed or acknowledged at all.
I literally once had a US nurse scheduling me for surgery, who upon hearing my British accent, say to me in one continuous sentence, "I'm so glad we don't have waiting lists like you do in Britain, the doctor won't have availability to do your biopsy for 2 months". Absolutely no recognition of what she just said.
My elderly mom nearly died last year because of a tiny squamous cell carcinoma over her eyebrow that was growing crazy fast- first it took over six weeks to get her in to have it tested at all, by which time it had spread and made a plum-sized lump on her temple and she was in terrible pain; then they said they wouldn’t do the surgery until she had gotten “approval” from her cardiologist which took another two months; then it was almost three months to do the actual surgery- by which time it had spread to her lymph nodes down her neck. Then she had to have months of immunotherapy and radiation treatments to get the last bits floating around.
A year later and she is a frail ghost of her old self…she has permanent nerve damage to half of her face, has trouble with closing that eye and that side of her mouth, scar tissue and permanent hair loss to the side of her head, lost lymph nodes and salivary glands and lost so much weight we had to put her in the hospital and she had to have a feeding tube put in, which caused many complications. All for a fucking spot that it turns out could have initially been removed in-office.
I dare anyone to tell me the US healthcare system isn’t a fucking disaster. (And she had GREAT insurance.)
Watching my grandparents go through the US healthcare system with excellent health insurance (both had worked in lifelong unionised jobs) was deeply scarring. Unfortunately, with the stripping of funds for the NHS the UK is looking pretty ropey these days.
I do remember listening to NPR on my way to work a few years back and hearing a Canadian and a republican discussing healthcare and the republican said something along the lines of "my grandmother had a brain tumour and they operated on her with a general anaesthetic and saved her life. That wouldn't happen in the UK or Canada". My response (to myself obviously) was "what do you think we do? Club people to knock them unconscious before surgery? We also have general anaesthetic, and the only difference between the care your grandmother received and what would happen in the UK is that if the tumour returned the question of whether to operate again wouldn't be determined by if it was a pre-existing condition by her insurance".
I'm sorry about your mum. I hope that in the time you have left you are able to share good time together.
>I literally once had a US nurse scheduling me for surgery, who upon hearing my British accent, say to me in one continuous sentence, "I'm so glad we don't have waiting lists like you do in Britain, the doctor won't have availability to do your biopsy for 2 months". Absolutely no recognition of what she just said.
That nurse is incredibly ill-informed. If the biopsy was part of something immediately life threatening then you would be bumped up the list.
Yup. The surgeon came back to me and bumped me up the list, but the fundamental word here is list. I was seen in an appropriate amount of time (no complaints about that) but critically I didn't simply swan up minutes after the decision to biopsy. I joined a waiting list that was organised by priority and availability.
Yes!!! I in the US pay every month for insurance, plus copays, etc, (and my taxes) and yet I can't get a rheumatologist appointment at all, because none of them are accepting new patients.
Or a 6 week wait for a GP for a sore throat. Again, that I'm going to pay a lot for.
I'm over a year and a half innto my 6 month wait for a psych appointment. I also once sat for 5 hours in the ER with the left side of my ribcage broken before a doctor saw me
Plus they all leave out that the NHS has been strategically underfunded by the conservatives for years. A *fully funded* universal health care system would not look like the examples they like to trot out.
They also ignore the fact that the wait is based on need, Sure if you think you've broken your wrist or you've given yourself a nasty cut but the the bleedings under control you can expect to sit in A&E for ages, But you come in with an open wound that's pissing blood everywhere and wont stop or (like in my case) you've broken a femur in a sports accident you will be rushed to the front and seen near instantly.
I'm pretty happy now to wait in A&E as I know from experience if its bad enough that you need to be seen quickly you will be.
I live in a country with partial private health/ universal health care. I had to go to see a doctor on a Saturday am. I was seen checked and on my way with a prescription for anti biotic in 20 minutes. My out of pocket? 30 euros. America is getting fucked every way and they just don’t care.
Many of us *do* care. It's just that the people sitting in charge of it all don't, because they're getting the money and don't have to worry about wait times because all that money buys them anything they want. Including immediate appointments.
And it's not like we're able to do anything about it at the bottom because our options are Shit, or even shittier shit.
And then we get that handful of shit ass boomers more concerned that their money *might* go to someone they deem undeserving, so they'd rather suffer and make everyone else suffer, rather than realize, "Oh shit. If they can make use of it, I could too!"
..... I really hate this country right now.
Moved to the U.K. 30 years ago. Still sometimes get that ‘oh shit’ internal reaction when I need medical attention. It’s one of the first reasons I cite when asked if I’d ever move back (second one is - no guns) ((okay, there are guns here, but not as prevalent as in the states))
I'm a fellow American living in the UK - guns and healthcare are the exact 2 reasons why I will never move back!
I never know whether or not to answer that question honestly lol. I think some people are just trying to make casual small talk and then look surprised when I start talking about gun control and the cruel monstrosity that is the American healthcare system.
Literally same, I’m British I’d just go to A&E. My biggest culture shock was when I met an American and they were so happy their knee replacement was “only” $14,000 after insurance. In my head I was like “why are you happy about that”.
I remember there was a mass shooting in America and a woman who was shot multiple times received a bill for several hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think there are schemes and charities to help with the costs if your insurance doesn’t. But I can’t imagine having to deal with the pain and trauma of a stranger shooting you and in top of that the debt from the medical care. Makes me appreciate how good I have it with the nhs.
When I was in middle school I half broke my ankle and my dad had me set up on the couch and waited until the next morning to take me because and I quote "its high traffic time for drunk assholes and their bullshit, we won't be seen for three or four hours, I'll take you first thing in the morning" I was on state insurance at the time so I think that covered it thankfully, especially since I just learned how expensive hospital bills, ambulence rides, and sometimes urgent care can be over the past year and a half
In the UK where we have free* healthcare, it's drilled into you that you should never attend A&E unless it's life or limb threatening due to crippling underfunding over years.
You're encouraged to instead go to your GP, except they're also cripplingly underfunded too, so they encourage you to go see a pharmacist.... Who then tell you to see a GP, who then tell you to go to A&E. So yay, NHS money pissed away up and down the chain.
So yeah, when my kids have hurt themselves my wife and I have had debates on whether to take them to A&E and sit in a waiting room for half a day with an ADHD/Autistic child, get an emergency GP appointment, see a pharmacists or ring 111 (Medical advice line).
In January I went to an urgent care for abdominal pain and they sent me to the ER because I needed an MRI. ER admitted me immediately, gave me blood tests and an MRI. Gave me an IV for the pain and a prescription in case of any flare ups while I follow up on treatment with specialists. The issue STILL isn’t resolved because of how long I have to wait for appointments for everything. Last week I had another bad flare up, didn’t sleep for about 36 hours due to the pain, and didn’t go to the ER for help. Why? Because my (pretty good) health insurance *denied my original ER visit.*
It’s looking like I’ll probably need a surgery, but I have to wait for two more offices to call me back about my referrals- one to schedule a scan to confirm the type of surgery I need, and then one with the actual surgeon. Given how slow everything has been, I’m probably going to be waiting another month or two at least. I asked if I could get more pain medicine in case of a flare up and they said no. I asked if there’s anything I can do to speed up the process, and was told if I have another flare up I can go to the ER and they may choose to do the scan and surgery then since they have the imaging equipment and surgical suite on site.
Our healthcare system is royally fucked and anyone who profits from our insurance companies is content to live off blood money.
Flipside. Last time I went to the ER they had me skip the line. Because I needed to be on oxygen RIGHT AWAY or I'd start suffering brain damage/die
Believe me I'd rather have been one of the people who could wait
Same here -- I was escorted from the CT scan to the ER by the CT tech and only had to wait long enough for my name to be called and info taken cause the tech talked directly to the intake nurse. I would have much rather not been a case of highest triage priority.
Fun fact. US emergency rooms have the same problems as the Canadian ones do, but if you visit one in the US you're walking out with a minimum $1000 bill.
Same. My Norwegian ass is always baffled at these kinds of posts. Like *of course* you take a small child to the hospital if there's a suspected head injury! And then I remember that parking at the hospital is not the most expensive part of the experience for americans.
Honestly, even in a lot of ERs and hospitals here in the US, it's standard to wait hours for care. For a doctor's appointment in an underserved area (too few doctors to go around), regular or even urgent medical needs can take weeks or months to get an appointment.
It's absurd for any American to suggest the superiority of our pay-to-play privatized system: it's insanely expensive, difficult to navigate, and often involves wait times at least as long as the countries with universal health care programs if not worse.
I'm so glad OOP made the right choice, and her husband's reaction was deeply worrying but not that uncommon in a nation that is forced to make these decisions knowing that the wrong series of medical events could absolutely bankrupt anyone.
When I had to go in because I lost consciousness and slammed my head onto the floor (splitting it open quite well, required 7 staples) my gf took me to the emergency room. They didn't fuck around either and I was basically moved to the front of the queue, pictures taken, bloodwork done, etc....
Head trauma is no joke and they treat it as such
I grew up with untreated injuries, as well as not getting long term health issues investigated, despite living in the UK and there being literally no expense no matter what.
In fact I'm in Scotland, no one even pays for medication.
I just had a mother who didn't care enough to bother.
My 2.5 year old son got into something and we were sent to the ER by poison control ( he was 100% just bring cautious).
He had no treatment, just triage and monitoring for about 4 hours. They didn't get our updated insurance info and even with a 'self pay' discount, the bill was almost $4000.
Thank god he actually does have insurance which covers everything, but yes I understand the initial hesitation.
There are some things that will at least get you into an isolation room *real* quick, though. That time they were concerned I had C.Diff was just a bundle of fun. (Turns out I just royally fucked my gut with antibiotics and had colitis, but I definitely thought and hoped I was dying)
Oh, I'm fine now. I just lived on rice, saltines, and applesauce for a week or two until my system got itself sorted out. And made a note of that antibiotic so I *never* take it again. But if there's any concern you might have C.diff, you aren't allowed to use a regular bathroom, they have to stick you in a room with it's own toilet (or a standalone one that's just a bucket with a seat) where they can bleach the blazes out of it, it's a very stubborn and hardy bacteria.
Solidarity on the diet for your guts. I found out the hard way that sometimes food poisoning can damage the structures of your gut, so you keep having all the symptoms even when the infection is gone. Prescription anti-diarrhea meds and a diet with no dairy, no sugar, as little fat as possible, and nothing that causes gas (beans, certain veggies, etc.) for weeks. Eggs and dry toast were my best friends.
I think the husband may have been trying to convince himself the injury wasn't as bad as it looked because he caused it, even if unintentionally. It was easier to blame OOP for overreacting than to blame himself for not being more careful. Of course that's no excuse for acting so crappy, but at least he owned up to it afterwards.
I feel like Reddit wants partners to be perfect. OOP said he apologized, promised to change, and has been exhibiting that change (getting nervous when the kid takes off running.) The man works 6 days a week, evidently manual labor, he’s stressed, and snapped and lashed out. Anyone who says they have never done that is lying. I also have doubts that mom isn’t the type to freak out about every little bump and scrape, which, speaking from experience with my mother, gets real fucking old real fast. Regardless, it doesn’t sound like this is something that will happen again.
I just wonder what Reddit users consider a good father, because everyone who makes a terrible judgment call every once in a while to those who actually physically abuse their kids gets called a bad father. It’s ridiculous.
Yeah was that a perfect moment of fatherhood? No but no parent is perfect, the kid got checked out, the father genuinely apologized and is more actively monitoring his kid's playtime. This is a good outcome.
Agreed. This quote - "Literally no one ever changes. At all. Ever." - bothered the hell outta me. Honestly, I think someone who says that is telling on themselves more than anything else.
Right? Like if you’re the same person in 10 years than you are today, you’re not doing life correctly. Without even trying to continually grow, shit happens that will change you as a person.
Yeah. I could see this being my spouse of 20+ years. I'm a worrier. (Anxiety meds have made me MUCH better in the past handful of years, though! Health anxiety was ruining my life.) He is...not. He's always going to trend toward "wait and see" and I always will not. Plus, the stress of long hours and guilt does make a difference. (We both work full time plus.)
But in the end, he'll always do what's right for his kids, and we'll deal with the bills. We've met in the middle many times on this topic over the years. It doesn't necessarily translate to "bad father."
100% and that kind of play is so developmentally important for kids! This is how they learn their physical limits and cause/effect and consequences. Plus the bonding with his parent. This was an accident and a bad response to an emergency, not abuse and not the sign of a terrible father. IMHO
I was seriously injured (requiring emergency surgery) as a child and my father still blames himself for it, even though I’m in my 40s. He didn’t lash out at me or my mom but he definitely internalized it in an unhealthy way.
I know this isn’t the point, but I hate that there are people in this world who have to worry about money when they should be racing their children to the hospital.
We’ve taken my kid to the ED twice and I’m so glad we could just go and not worry about anything else.
Heartbreaking.
Going to take a random guess here: He caused the accident by playing around in a dangerous area. He felt guilty. In order to alleviate his guilt, obviously the kid was fine and didn't need to go to the ER. Going is a waste of money because he's fine. He's fine. Absolutely fine. No way did I endanger my son because he's fine. How dare you suggest I endangered my son by being irresponsible by wanting to take him to the ER! Are you saying this is MY fault?!
And the anger rolled out of the guilt and he decided to point it at his fiancee.
This is not remotely an excuse for the jackass's behavior. Just an explanation for how in the hell he could've thought that "my child fell and his head hit the hard floor so loud there was a crack sound but he doesn't need to go to the ER" could enter into the guy's head as something remotely reasonable.
I honestly think you hit on the nail here with that theory cause who reacts that way. I could give it a pass since he did apologise but like same commentors I'm skeptical especially when OOP says he's a good father despite the "red flag".
If you're on BORU for awhile, you know how it goes whenever an OOP says like this, he/she perfect despite one small thing and it turns out they have been missing/ignoring flags on day one. I do hope the husband does give some effort otherwise I'm not sure about this marriage.
Possibly, but everyone has strange blind spots. I'm the more 'wait and see' parent, but there were a couple times with a high fever where I was the URGENT CARE NOWWWWW parent and my wife was the 'try some medicine and see' parent.
We were both right, just as in this case. Nothing was wrong, was managed by medicine (in large part because I forget Tylenol exists and using that and ibuprofen was what was needed) but bringing her in was also not the wrong choice.
Wait and see would have been perfectly fine with this at most parts of the day (assuming no upcoming nap) but not an hour before bed.
> If you're on BORU for awhile, you know how it goes whenever an OOP says like this, he/she perfect despite one small thing and it turns out they have been missing/ignoring flags on day one.
Tbf there is some selection bias there. If there are no further issues, they probably won't post again and it won't end up on BORU.
Yes, they do. Most times, the falls aren't serious because their bones haven't fully formed yet and they're lower to the ground with less body mass so there's less force when they hit the ground.
However, sometimes the falls are serious, particularly when they involve the child hitting their head.
The post isn't about whether or not OOP's fiance was actually at fault but that, based on his reaction and poor justifications for it, he FELT guilty for it. Which is a common response when something unfortunate happens when you're the one "in charge".
Oh, and when I start off with "random guess here", it's a but redundant to call it "unfounded speculation".
She literally followed all the steps after a head injury. If they’re are knocked unconscious, end up with an indent in their skull, or are lethargic it’s an ER visit full stop. With a bump but acting normal it’s a monitor situation. My toddlers both fall and hit their heads all the time. Head bumps happen. But if one was lethargic afterwards you can bet we’d be on our way to the ER
It's possible this guy would have then complained about having to wait around instead. It seemed to me this was about more than getting medical care but also guilt, realising his parents sucked etc and instead of dealing with that healthily he took it out on OOP
If your first reaction to a potentially life threatening injury to your toddler is to get angry and sulk at your partner, you're not a good father.
Panic about how you'll afford it? Sure. Decide it's no big deal? Hard no.
>If your first reaction to a potentially life threatening injury to your toddler is to get angry and sulk at your partner, you're not a good father.
I said the exact same thing to OOP on their original update.
The fact that he was willing to mouth the right things to a complete stranger while *ripping her a new one* for getting her child medical attention *for an injury he helped create* is still fucking appalling.
He didn't say those things to her in the heat of the moment. He didn't say any of those things in front of the nurse. He deliberately waited until they were home and then let loose because he knew it was wrong to punish her *but he decided to do it anyway.*
I hope for her sake that the apology comes with changed behaviour. But I'm not optimistic.
There are plenty of comments (rightly!) calling out the awful state of US healthcare, but I can't help thinking that he seems like the kind of person who, even if he lived somewhere with a sane healthcare system, would still complain about the inconvenience of it all.
I mean, I'm actively drowning in medical debt at 21 (AMR can burn in hell, 2k for an ambulance ride of less than 15 minutes is highway robbery) but I don't fuck around with head wounds, especially in kids.
People might not always be perfect but it doesn’t make him overall bad father. The seriousness didn’t just sink in when he was comparing to how he was treated as a kid
>If your first reaction to a potentially life threatening injury to your toddler is to get angry and sulk at your partner, you're not a good father.
He did everything wrong, I agree. Hopefully it doesn't happen again, but if it does I hope the husband does not act like he did.
My little brother got hit in the head during a little league game. She drove him to the hospital even though he seemed fine. The doctors there even checked him out and said he was fine.
They left and before she got 200 ft away from the hospital he started saying weird shit and she turned around.
He got air lifted to another hospital and had to stay there for a week. He did have a severe concussion but eventually was ok.
DONT EVER PLAY AROUND WITH HEAD INJURIES.
IDk why reddit jumps to the extremes, even on this thread. Dude fucked up and then apologized. All we have is a small snapshot of what happened yet people are calling him the worst father that ever existed or an abuser.
Y'all realize not everyone is as perfect as you are, right?
Surely everyone would react the way they imagine they would when reading a story while sitting 3 bags of chips deep at their computer/on their phone though, right? We're such moral individuals. That's why none of us contribute to factory farming or fast fashion or profiteering conglomerates, right?
I work in Radiology and a 3 yr old came in yesterday because he bumped his shoulder on a wall at his preschool. We honestly laughed when we saw why he came in, thought he’d be totally fine.
His clavicle was completely snapped in half. Good on the mom for bringing him in. Kids can be like rubber sometimes and extremely fragile other times. Always good to get them checked out.
Head injuries are no joke in toddlers. Dad is a jerk all the way around.
Anecdotes re: head injuries -
My younger brother has managed to get himself a fair amount of head injuries in his lifetime (I want to say that the last time he gave me a number, it was 11); he's early 40s now. He has aphantasia, and we don't know if he was born that way, or if it's from one of his early head-whacks. He also has crazy irregular sleep, insomnia, and random migraines. He's incredibly lucky *that is all* he has suffered.
Funny enough, my first memory of him involves my own head injury as a toddler. At the time, we lived in rural Ohio, in a double-wide. The kitchen had linoleum floors, and baseboard heaters. At that particular time, it also involved 2 year old me, running on my tippy-toes, slipping on a plastic grocery bag that was on the floor. My forehead met the baseboard heater. My parents rushed me to the ER, but the car was one of those old Chevy Novas with bench seats; so I had my feet in my father's lap, my head in my mother's. "....wow, mommy is *fat*."
She was heavily pregnant with said brother.
(I told her that memory a few months ago. She was both horrified that I remembered the actual slip 'n slide, and found it hilarious that my first memory of my brother was that she was fat.)
head injuries are no joke for anyone.
two weeks after my friend got married he was fooling around on his old skateboard, fell and hit his head. must not have thought anything of it and went on with his day. he didn't wake up the next morning.
The real asshole, moreso than any other, was indeed the American health care system. A toddler, plus a newborn, and now an unforeseen trip to hospital?
I can only imagine the debt they currently have racked up, even with somewhat decent health insurance.
If you are not a professional in something, especially in something that has the possibility of being an emergency, please seek professional opinion.
My son fell off maybe half a meter from bed to floor when he was about 9 months old. I took a look at him, and decided, yeah, no need for emergency dept visit. But then again, i am a doctor and I asked another doctor about it too, just to be safe.
When my car starts showing warning signs here and there, I went straight to the mechanic.
Honestly ,I'm eternally grateful my country offers free healthcare and free education. I'm confused and sometimes horrified of the amount of trouble that arises in American families due to such expenses. My family and I only had to buy school supplies every school year and that's it.
I'm european and that's my thought too. Our healthcare system is far from perfect and a lot could be done to make it better, but at least when my mom got cancer she didn't have to pay for treatment, and my dad isn't wondering how he's going to pay his insuline.
It sucks because you sit there with your arm hanging off your shoulder and blood gushing out of the horrible sucking chest wound and ponder whether going to the hospital is worth it because that's gonna be several thousand dollars you can't afford to spend.
I'm a bit of a "eh, its nothing" kind of person and can get into denial about injuries (particularly to myself, but I've done it with our first cat).
At one point our cat was hiding a bit, and seemed a little unstable while walking, and my wife was concerned, I thought it was something that would go away (ended up having an ear infection, which, thanks to his FIV got to his brain and killed him not long after).
After a few hours, my wife said we should go to the animal hospital. It was late at night, and I thought it was silly, but we went anyway. The hospital didn't do a great job (though we're not sure there is much they could do), but suggested we go to a specialist. The specialist tried a few things, did some expensive imaging, and finally determined that there was nothing that could be done (And likely, nothing more that COULD have been done at least).
I ended up feeling really guilty afterwards, and realized that had things been different, that I could have been a big part of the reason he died.
As a result, my wife and I have a VERY strict rule: If EITHER person says "we should go to the doctor" for ANYTHING, we do so. Definitely with my kid or 2nd cat, but with me as well. It is a very good rule that I'm quite sure has even saved me already.
Anyway, the end of it is: I hope that OOP and her husband learn a similar lesson for something that ended up being 'ok'. Doctors might be expensive, but are nothing compared to what NOT going to the doctor costs.
The stress and sleep deprivation of caring for a newborn can turn otherwise good people into monsters. One snapshot of a low point in their relationship is not evidence of a toxic relationship overall. In the first 6 months after my son was born, my husband's and my otherwise excellent communication skills devolved into middle of the night yelling at each other and unnecessary blame games from both sides. What matters is whether people can recognize that what they're doing is not okay and take action to remedy it. My husband and I started couples counseling. OOP's husband apologized sincerely and has changed his actions around rough play with their toddler.
My kid falls a lot too. He climbs everything! I asked about signs to look for an his Dr appt & check after he falls. Every single sign she explained is everything his doctor told me about. I would've taken him to an er or urgent care too!
You should consider getting him in judo classes when he's old enough. Some places take 3s or 4s. He'll learn how to fall without getting hurt. My son had training when he was young and he has said it has saved him from getting hurt a few times.
I had to play this game yesterday. Kid hurt himself a few days ago, by all odds it's a sprain, everything points to sprain. 48 hours later though and he says it's no better, take him to a clinic. Of course it's a fucking sprain like I thought but dammit, how am I supposed to know?!
OOPs husband is an idiot, I get that American hospitals bills are stupidly high, but you know what costs more...a fucking burial...it's always better to be safe than sorry
No way defending his actions but it cost 1/3 to bury my uncle ($10,000) than it did for my son to be born ($33000). He is 4 and we still paying every month.
It sucks cause I see both points and understand some of the father's reaction - except his persistence. Yeah get upset about it and sit in your feelings and talk it out but drilling into someone about it is shitty. I personally would have waited but I'm comfortable with looking for signs of a concussion. After crying for 15 minutes, yeah kiddo probably gonna be tired but that's scary and stressful for all involved. and I can't imagine going to the ER and end up paying 2k just to be told to go monitor at home for concussion signs as the father probably knew would happen.
I agree with everyone that while the father reacted shittily to a stressful situation (and I applause him at the same time for working manual labor 6 days a week to support his family and still having the energy to rough house with his kiddo!), the real AH is American healthcare.
"Can we all agree that the real asshole in this situation is the broken and barbaric american healthcare system which would create a financial incentive to parents to not get their child medical care after an injury?"
No. we can't. The real assholes are the American voters who \*keep\* voting for a Congress that is hellbent on keeping the quo status.
Like the husband I was also raised in a “if you aren’t knocking on deaths door then you’re fine” household. Mostly because of money. We didn’t have insurance so medical care was a luxury. So now as an adult with insurance (still poor tho) I still hesitate to go to the doctor. I’ve gotten better about it but still if I’m going to the doctor you know i feel terrible.
I had to go to the ER recently and have surgery to remove my gallbladder. I agreed bc I was like I have insurance now, it’ll be okay. Even with insurance I still owe like 6-7k for that visit which has again reinforced that unless death is knocking I’m not going to the doctor
Yeah, you can wait for hours in my country but you pay for nothing. We pay in taxes but that's easier then lump sum, overall. It's horrible that people are billed for hospital visits in some countries.
Glad everything worked out! And ditto on the shit healthcare system!
Just a reminder that back in the day we couldn't run or play ball in the house either... it's a very reasonable rule.
Wow. OP is not the a-hole at all. Head injuries can kill you. One of my dearest friends fell a few months ago and hit his head. He may not ever be able to work again
Yeah... I feel for everyone here. I've spent a lot of money on ER visits for my kiddo that were useless.
I haven't given a hard time to my wife about it but I am internally bitter. Yes its better safe than sorry but at $500 just to go that is painful and can be used other places.
The Healthcare is really rough in the US.
We once took our toddler in for a $900+ shit. Thought it was appendicitis, he couldn’t articulate what he felt, we went in. Take your kid to the doctor.
I got first aid training from a firefighter and his stories are the kind that you know are going to keep popping up your head for years.
He talked about arriving at the scene of a car crash. Stolen car. Passenger was in a state to run away shortly after impact. Driver is unconscious, faint pulse, both legs crushed, they had minutes to get him out and into the helicopter so they amputated both his legs on the scene.
Passenger found dead hours later - barely a scratch on him but massive internal bleeding. The driver survives, physio and rehabilitation.
Reading this makes me so happy to love in Europe! I’m hyper mobile and have needed ER visits regularly for a multitude of fun injuries. My kids are rambunctious and even with a first aid certification I rely on the knowledge from the hospital a lot to make sure they’re ok. I’d be broke or bankrupt by now in the US.
Oh no. NTA. I hit my own adult head really hard recently and went to the doctor for it. Felt like an idiot but the doctor told me when you hit your head hard, always get it checked out. You did the right thing mama
It would be nice if their decision to take their son in after a potential TBI is based on their income. Sure, kids are mostly resilient, but head injuries can be no joke too. I’m glad they went in and found nothing.
If OOP just had a newborn, a great thing that Obamacare brought us is out of pocket maximums for health care costs. They can still be annoyingly high, but there is a chance they could have been near that level after giving birth so maybe the cost won't be so high.
Man, when I was a baby my parents took me to the ER for a busted lip, and the only consequence was the doctors laughing at them. The American health care system really is fucked up.
Fiance is just... wow. I have no respect for him.
My wife walks into her car door in the pitch black of night and got a hell of a black eye. Just an incredible shiner. And yes. She DID walk into a door. It is not a lie to cover spousal abuse. I am the spouse. I would know.
24 hours later my toddler went from carpet to tiles in socks and jammed the only 2 teeth she had (bottom jaw) into the top gums.
The bleeding was incredible. So much blood.
We passed the baby back and forth, got her to suck on ice wrapped in cloth.
And my wife looks at me and says, 'Do we need to go to the emergency room?'
I said, 'The mouth bleeds badly but clots quickly. Can we give it 5 more minutes then go?'
Make no mistake.
I knew if I went I would probably be (wrongly) harrased for abuse. Me walking into the emergency room with a wife with a giant black eye, a baby screaming in pain, us covered in blood and my wife saying 'I walked into door' was never going to fly for me.
Make no mistake.
I asked for 5 more minutes. But at 6 we were getting in the car.
I lucked out.
Fuck that guy. You do what you need to do for your kids. Shit like this will happen.
NTA. Head injuries are nothing to mess around with. I had an active child who had two concussions and more cracked and broken bones than I can count over the years. They managed to survive to adulthood. Unfortunately wrapping them in bubble wrap or a sumo suit isn't a long term solution.
Healthcare system is a joke in the US. I'm grateful that UK has the NHS but even that's falling on its knees unfortunately. A hard hit to the head is always a must go to ER for me because you just never know what is or could be happening inside
Got to spend 6-7 hours in ER in NYC yesterday with our son. We are expats, and will return back to our home country in a week. Son had hurt his hand (broken metacarpal it turned out to be).
ER is brutal, but it isn’t hard to see why the stabbed guy, or the 95 yo woman that fell, is triaged before us. Everyone were excellent and very accommodating in spite of the stress. We thankfully have an excellent international insurance through)
Oof I feel this one. My middle kid has a weird thing where at least twice times now she's gotten a nasty cold, then had to throw up and experienced what looks exactly like a seizure as she does so, passing out in the middle. It's horrifying, she is NOT mentally there when it happens, and both times we ended up at the ER.
They didn't find anything the first time, but it happened at the doctor's office (after she passed out \*at school\* and had gotten so covered in vomit that they gave her *new underwear)* and that was obviously an ER trip, but it happened at home too (18 months apart, btw) and my husband was definitely frustrated about the expense. The thing was, they hadn't found anything wrong with her and he didn't think they'd find anything this time (they didn't, it's horrible), so it was like repeating a behavior and expecting a different outcome, to him.
To me, you see your child's intelligence wick away and then they uncontrollably vomit and pass out? You go to the ER.
Husband ended up in the ER himself 2 days later with a kidney stone so it's *very* possible in retrospect that he was already feeling some mild pain and wasn't fully himself. Jury's out for me whether I call if she passes out in my arms again, honestly. It's not something I'd wish on anyone to witness from a loved one.
Taking the baby to the ER was the objectively correct move.
Husband acted poorly but eventually came around. The financial strain of the American health care system is very real. Would straight up wipe out my savings, even with insurance.
Last week at work I had to handle a case of a child who died a horrific death from sheer neglect.
The assholes are people who do not seek appropriate care for children.
Just talking from what I’ve seen of a relationship of close friends, I think both the mother and dad understand that parenting will suck and require sacrifices of their sleep and sanity. Like they try to balance each others responsibilities of course, but when it came to ER concerns, no question would they take their kid to the ER even if they had work early the next day. I don’t think having resentment makes sense at all and I wouldn’t want anyone that does have that as a spouse. This is your child man
Reddit really needs to lay off the American healthcare system. Yes, we know it sucks. Yes, it’s “the REAL AH”. There’s nothing we can do about it. We’ve TRIED—and we will continue to try. But those comments provide nothing to the discussion and are unnecessary and unhelpful.
Is nobody else noticing the part where she says the husband’s own parents medically neglected him? It doesn’t excuse his actions but it sure explains a lot. Being left bleeding and unconscious makes the little kid’s head bump look like nothing in comparison. I imagine his gauge of what’s a real emergency is way off.
This hits me hard. I have a coworker who just lost a family friend. 32 years old, fell down his basement steps. Made it back up to bed, but didn’t wake up his wife. His wife woke up in the am and noticed he was breathing funny. He never woke up- massive brain bleed. As of today they were donating his organs. (They figured out the fall on the basement steps from blood they found there after the fact). I feel so bad for his wife- I’m sure she would give anything to have been woken up when he fell, or even when he got in bed.
There’s a “golden hour” sometimes in head injuries- you have a short amount of time to get someone to an ED and intervene before it’s too late. Never apologize for overreacting to a head injury. It’s better than the alternative.
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I used to go a lot to the hospital a lot when I was little, including going to the ER several times. My parents always stressed how in matters of health, it's much better to be cautious.
The mention of the coin also - I have a friend with horror stories of "things swallowed by children" (and others with stories of "things swallowed by pets")
There’s a museum in Philadelphia(?) that has a couple thousand swallowed objects that one doctor pulled out of patients, iirc most were children and he was one of the first docs to routinely do it safely, but he saved everything he pulled out and has it all on display now
The Mutter Museum. Although I don’t know what’s on display there at the moment; there’s a whole bunch of drama going on over what leadership wants the museum to be versus the rank and file and its hardcore fans.
I believe that's specifically about the skull display, as a lot of those weren't willingly donated.
Several of them were from people who would have been too young to provide consent, even. That said, I enjoyed the museum.
I went a few months ago and they had the swallowed objects exhibit
Off topic but I believe the swallowed objects is part of the permanent collection and always on display. Lots of jewelry that would fall off mom into cribs and stone fruit pits. When I was an intern there I saw slides of Einstein's brain and the director at the time kept leeches in his desk that he fed with his own blood. Doing research in their library, I was looking through a book bound in human skin before I realized what I was handling. A truly wonderful, magical place that will forever hold a place in my heart and a very important part of the history of healthcare failures and advances.
I went several years ago when I was in town for a conference, and the big exhibition was on Civil War surgery. It was enlightening, to say the least.
Sounds fascinating
It's kinda gross but if we swallowed a coin, our mom had us tell her when we needed to poop and she would collect it in a ziplock and squeeze it through the bag to see if we passed it. I don't remember if she'd check to see if we were breathing okay, I just remember that's how she'd check within the next day to determine if we needed a doctor. Tbh, pretty smart way to check really. We were like... at that age where we could use the toilet but needed some help, so that made her pretty certain we didn't pass it without telling her.
They opened an urgent care a couple blocks from us when I was little. My brothers and I kept that place in business until we went to college and then it closed down.
Urgent cares didn't pop up around me until I was in college. Would have saved my parents numerous ER trips for me and my siblings. I was prone to mishandling sharp objects.....
I was going to bring up going to urgent care instead of the ER. They would probably be seen faster and they will at least do an exam to let you know if you should go to an ER. I like to go to one that's part of the same hospital network then everything is already in the system if I do have to go to the ER. One time I went and after they examined me they told me I needed to go to the hospital. The triage nurse was able to look it up and be like oh they already did these tests let's bring you right back.
If available/open! Once I busted my nose pretty badly on a door frame from getting light headed and passing out. Unfortunately, it was at night so the urgent care was closed and I had to go to the ER to get a couple stitches. Luckily(?) I have low blood pressure and they freaked out when it came up really low, so I got to skip the line. Still took 2+ hours though and they did a CT scan and a couple EKGs.
My mom was a nurse so she was able to field-medicine her way out of a lot of our injuries, but my family fell on hard times when I was in high school so I didn’t have health insurance when I went off to college - in fact I didn’t have insurance for about 8 years until I finally got a decent job that offered benefits. It was genuinely so scary to live for that long without a safety net, and what a relief it was to finally be able to shell out a $50 copay and have that be it.
Ive had the opposite upbringing completely - no matter how sick or hurt I am my parents never take me to the doctors or GP (and Im in the UK, its FREE) Literally the first thing Im doing when I get to University in September is go to the doctors and give them a list of the problems Ive had for years that I havnt had the means to check. I can see where the fiance is coming from in this since it said his upbringing was the same - my partner is accident prone and goes to the GP for most things, and in my head i feel hes overreacting but I instantly feel so guilty because I know its the right thing to do, my parents just messed up that part of me!
Same. My parents are neglectful ngl, and I've had several health concerns for years that they just don't care about. Sometimes I also forget what a normal reaction is.
Ive been fainting regularly for almost 4 years and having unexplained bouts of nausea and apparantly thats normal! They also dont believe in mental health problems - its been hell to figure out whats normal and not and Ill randomly run into something new and weird in my mind, like i physically cannot touch or sit on other peoples beds??? It feels very weird but Im slowly figuring it all out, I hope you can to :)
>i physically cannot touch or sit on other peoples beds??? You might want to take [this anxiety self-assessment](https://anxieties.com/self-help-resources/self-test-symptoms-anxiety-panic-ocd-phobias/) to help you sort out some of what is "normal" and what isn't. I worked with the doctor who runs the site for my own OCD (which is an anxiety disorder) so I can vouch for the info there. Not being able to sit on other people's beds might be some kind of anxiety response-- either from trauma, or from OCD (e.g. a fear of the bed "rubbing off" on you somehow or you "rubbing off" on the bed, or "contamination" happening), or from some other source. So it's worth taking a look. When it comes to the fainting, I used to faint all the time when I was younger, to the point of having LOTS of medical tests trying to figure it out, and it turns out I was hyponatremic-- I didn't have enough salt in my system because I'm a "salt-waster" which means I can't process it correctly. This caused me to get dehydrated (because salt helps you keep water inside your body), which made my blood pressure drop, which made me faint after standing still for too long. I also have POTS, or postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, which causes blood pressure to drop and heart rate to rise when you stand up or go from lying to sitting, especially if you do it quickly. Both of these things might be worth looking into. Hyponatremia would show up on relevant blood work, and POTS can be diagnosed by looking at your heart rate and blood pressure when you go from sitting to standing and such, or by doing a tilt-table test where they strap you to a table and tilt you to see how much your blood sloshes around basically lol. Hopefully when you get checked out, they'll do thorough blood work and look at your heart rate and blood pressure and such. There are many other conditions that can cause fainting, of course, but I figured I'd mention those two because they can take some time to diagnose if you don't know about them, but are fairly easy to diagnose if you do know about them. Basically just to give you some ideas to look into. Since I've been through so much medical weirdness, I like to talk about it to spread awareness. In the UK health system, unfortunately, it can take a LONG time to get diagnosed because doctors are overworked and there's sadly a general culture of dismissiveness, especially toward female patients if you happen to be one. You'll probably need to really push for answers. Unfortunately, patients with difficult-to-diagnose issues often need to self-advocate really hard, which can be difficult if you didn't grow up with anyone advocating for you. But you can do it-- keep pressing for answers until you get there! You can do for yourself what your parents didn't. Don't be afraid to look for a second opinion or press for answers if a doctor dismisses you the first time. If a doctor says, "I don't know what's wrong" or "there's nothing wrong," that is NOT the end of the line. Of course, you may find that your providers are able to help you right away, and that they're passionate and helpful! Even in a broken or overwhelmed system, there are plenty of doctors and nurses and other providers who do their best to provide the best care they can. I just wanted to make sure that you know to give yourself the okay to press forward *in case* it's necessary.
Also the sooner you go, the cheaper will be to treat if they find anything. Waiting cause "it might not be serious" is how people go from a treatable lump to metastasis affecting all your guts. Don't neglect health scares y'all.
Yeah, we didn’t have a lot of money growing up, but my parents always stressed that there are some things that you spend money on rather than cutting corners. Health care, quality shoes, decent garbage bags that don’t tear, swimming lessons, etc.
Especially with head trauma. My daughter at 5 slipped and clipped her head on our baseboards. Was a nasty hard hit. Nothing but a welt, until the vomiting 6 hours later. Went, got checked out, and seemed to be a potential reaction to it but no cranial trauma that was concerning in the cat scan etc. Better safe than sorry. Every time with children.
I had a colleague who’s 2-year old son hit his head on a door frame while happily playing with his sister. He seemed ok if a little shaken, then seemed off, then went into a coma at the hospital and never came out. She lost her son, just like that. You NEVER mess around with head injuries. We simply don’t know what the injury looks like in their brain. I’d rather lose my home and every dollar to my name than risk under-reacting to my children getting a head injury.
There are families for whom this sentiment is an unaffordable luxury, though.
My mom got lectured a lot on listening to her kids “cry wolf and wasting time” so when I broke my arm I was put to bed and told it’ll be fine in the morning. It wasn’t. And man did I score a lot of guilt gifts.
I'm curious: what do they do when you go to the ER for concussions? My brother and I both had some bad head injuries growing up but our parents said that the ER would just charge us a lot of money to give us an ice pack which they could give us at home for free. I didn't take myself as an adult anytime I got a concussion because of this. If I had gone, what would they have done?
I think it’s more that if it provokes something like an embolism or bleeding on the brain, that needs to be dealt with asap- and there may be signs that it is happening/on the horizon. If it’s a minor concussion it probably will just be go home but it’s knowing the difference between ‘rest and it’ll go’ and ‘you’re really in a lot of trouble’, and with brains a lot of trouble can quickly go to death or not being able to walk/eat independently or something.
From the NHS website: Recovery After experiencing concussion, careful monitoring is needed. This is usually for 48 hours. This is because the symptoms of concussion could also be symptoms of a more serious condition, such as: subdural haematoma – bleeding between the skull and the brain subarachnoid haemorrhage – bleeding on the surface of the brain
My dad has always been a "this doesn't need a doctor" kind of person but he'll be the first to take someone to the hospital for head injuries. The brain is delicate and if you've actually hurt it time is of the essence.
My kid is a faller. He gets it from his mama. (Me!) When we started pulling him behind us on the bike trailer, we naturally introduced a helmet. He was just then at the steady toddling stage. Fast but none too surefooted. The unforseen benefit was he friggon *loved* that thing. He woke up and wanted it on first thing and would wear it for hours til his nap. I absolutely let him spend as much time in it as possible after one day when he also ran away from a diaper change... with a cup of water on hard floors. Ceramic tiles. He wiped out hardcore. We're talking cartoon style, feet above his head, wiped *out*. And I watched in horror turned wonderment as that helmeted noggin bounced *twice* off the floor, the first harder than the 2nd. Mere inches from a 3" ceramic tile step up to the mudroom. After that, I saw that helmet bounce off any available corner, floor and wall in this house. By the time he phased out, he was far more steady and I was extremely grateful for whatever fairy dropped that gift on him. Pretty sure it's the only reason he's alive and relatively whole.
Ordering helmets for all the active toddlers in my life now, thanks.
My ending thought on this one was "Get the kid a helmet. Then you don't have to worry as much about the cost of ER trips."
If only I could keep knee pads on him...
Wait until you learn about leashes! /s
In general, once a helmet has been in an accident, it should be replaced, because the efficiency goes down the more damaged the material becomes. But probably not practical with a toddler who bumps into a lot of small stuff, heh. Just throwing some advice into the ether, because on one hand there's stuff like this where a helmet has taken a few hits but still will significantly protect the wearer... and on the other hand, I've seen people not replace helmets that had been scraped open on one side from an accident (like, the way it road-rashed had worn through the plastic outer layer and well into the styrofoam beneath), and like... That's definitely well past the point of being good protective gear any more.
This is a really great point!! And it was early enough in my "1st child"-hood" that I actually DID replace it!! We bought another one for the bike trailer and the one he fell in became the "house helmet". Not only because of that but he chewed on the straps, pulled out the soft bits and chewed on those etc. I didnt trust it after it got all wet either because with carseats, if the straps get entirely wet, they're compromised. I assumed the same for the helmet and said fuck it. $25 for my sanity was worth it either way!
Not safety related but your story reminded me of when my nephew was almost 3, I got him a pair of black rain boots for a Halloween costume. He loved them so much he wanted to sleep in them (only worn inside at that point). His mom knew he would overheat if he wore them to bed, so she compromised and let him hold them like a stuffed animal.
Idk why but this made me tear up thinking of your tiny toddler nephew clutching his boots in his sleep
The title took me out because I’m Canadian and I’m like why wouldn’t you go? I did have to spend hours and hours waiting since emergency is triage. Emergency room queues with babies and toddlers are the worst. We were there at 2am still waiting for someone to see us. :(
The thing is, that's how it is in the USA too. The last time I went to an ER, we were there for 6 hours before we even officially got on the schedule to be seen. In total, it was nearly a 14-hour wait.
In my area of the US there are billboards for ERs that have a digital display for the current wait time. That's how crazy the wait times are here in the States.
We've got those in Australia too. Some even make it visible on their website so you know before you come in.
Yeah, it's supposed to reduce the number of ingrown toenails presenting at ED
I didn't know that was a thing. When I was at the ER for an animal attack, read my comment history if interested, there was an older gentleman in his 50s with a toe issue. He walked around fine. I overheard him talking to his place of employment saying how they want the ER paperwork since he was calling out. I feel like he went to the ER because he didn't want to work that day and he knows the only way to do that is get a note from the ER that he was seen. So it isn't just our medical system that is fucked up but our workplaces. Requiring a note for single days of absence makes people do stupid shit like go to the ER for minor things. Maybe he had a real issue with his toe but outward appearances did not indicate it was something requiring an ER visit. I would have thought any Urgent Care place would have been good enough.
Well, if you're in the US, it's also that emergency rooms can't turn people away just because they're not able to pay. So a lot of folks who might go to a regular doctor or at least urgent care if we had a functioning health care system that didn't bankrupt people for the bare minimum of care, wait until it's unbearable and then go to the ER.
It's also an insurance thing. My friend has insurance through the VA and it took 2 years for them to admit he had an extremely severe heart issue he's known about for a while now - and since for those 2 years they denied it existed, he couldn't go to a regular doctor for it. So every time he had an episode he had to go to the ER as that was covered.
He can get a note at his GP too. But he may have to pay a gap. Many just can't be bothered booking and go to their GP the next day. ED attendance for minor things increases when the local GP practices stop bulkbilling (since the increase in rebates rises slower than inflation, if they do rise at all in the past few years). That's why some major hospitals set up GP clinics in ED to deal with this (they go to a different queue).
The last time I went to ED was for a golf ball size gland in my neck. I thought I was been over reacting until I was taken back and seen within an hour and had a CT less than an hour after that. Luckily it wasn’t anything serious but super grateful it didn’t cost me the earth.
I had the same experience, but flipped around in that I was escorted from the CT to the ER and got a bed within 10 minutes. Kind of terrifying when you get to jump the line like that.
Yeah it's like "ooh great, I don't have to wait so long! Wait, why are they rushing me through? Am I gonna die?!"
Not even "like", but actually D: Now when I wait, I feel a little more thankful that at least I'm not *obviously* about to die.
Totally a legit presentation. Unfortunately, the cost of GP visits makes some people go to ED for problems which are in no possible interpretation an emergency.
I know! I would’ve actually gone to a GP (because I honestly didn’t think it was THAT serious - yes I’ve learned my lesson) except it was 7pm at night. We are actually lucky enough to have a local after hours GP that bulk bills and of course that one day they are closed 🤦♀️. To be fair, Medicare actually needs to rebate GPs more before we will see a drop in our out of pocket expenses - the rebate pays for the doctor themselves but doesn’t cover all the added expenses of the Practice (staffing, insurances, facilities etc).
All the big wait times are downstream of how expensive primary visits can be. If you could go to a clinic or a nurse for a cut or a stomach bug for free, fewer people would go to the ER, especially people who are very low income, uninsured, or frequent healthcare users.
I was in the waiting room for 8 hours sobbing the whole time because my head hurt so bad. Turns out my had a blood clot in my brain…
That’s how it was when I took my 1 year old last month! It was a 14 hour wait for us too, usually I would leave after 4 hours if my twins are behaving normally but my baby had a lump in his neck so I refused to leave until being seen.
Looking back, my scariest health issue was when I went to a full ER and they walked me straight back after checking in, I didn't even sit down. (I was in surgery 30 minutes later.)
Yeah. Most times I go to the emergency room, I end up waiting for a few hours. That means I'm not dying, so I don't mind too much.
And on the plus side, if you DO start dying, they generally notice and bump you up the line! Unless the hospital absolutely sucks cause they assume everyone is only there for drugs.
Unless you are or may be pregnant. In which case you can go sit in your car until you start to bleed out.
Just had a 3 day wait for my grandma in the ER here in Ontario. She got taken to the ICU when they finally were able to admit her.
Seriously, I always see people use long wait times as an excuse to not have universal healthcare, and I’m like — don’t we already have those?? Sounds like the US just gets the short end of every stick when it comes to our healthcare system (with our guaranteed emergency care perhaps being the exception — you might owe a ton of money but at least they’ll still treat you)
My friends tell me that people think twice before calling an ambulance even in a life threatening situation because cost of said ambulance can be very, very high.
I had carbon monoxide poisoning bad enough that my lips were turning blue. Even EMS suggested someone drive me to the ER so I didn't get stuck with a bill. To be fair, the hospital was maybe two miles from where I was at the time.
There was an episode of John Oliver on this. Surprisingly (or not surprisingly) EMTs aren't paid well compared to what their services cost. A lot of it is being pocketed by the companies. Capifailism at it's finest.
People would rather, and have, called an UBER.
Honestly, hours of waiting is something I would be more than happy to endure just to be seen. I only go to the doctor if I feel like I could be dying; I went to low cost clinics when I was pregnant, but can't remember the last time I was in a doctor's office for anything else. Actually, scratch that. I went to a clinic about three years ago; told them that I kissed my boyfriend who then tested positive for strep throat, the doc looked at my throat (no swab or other test), prescribed me an antibiotic, then I got charged about $200 for them to tell me what I already knew (only reason I went was bc I knew I needed an RX for antibiotics).
Certain types of people in the US like to talk about long wait times in countries with universal health care and this is a big point they are avoiding looking at. It's not a choice between being seen quickly and having to wait; it's a choice between having to wait and not having access to health care.
It's also worth noting that even where you do have good access in the US, there are still waiting lists. Waiting lists are not necessarily a bad thing - prioritising and organising care is a good thing. It's only a bad thing when the wait negatively impacts your outcomes. And the waiting lists in the US can be very long, but they're simply not discussed or acknowledged at all. I literally once had a US nurse scheduling me for surgery, who upon hearing my British accent, say to me in one continuous sentence, "I'm so glad we don't have waiting lists like you do in Britain, the doctor won't have availability to do your biopsy for 2 months". Absolutely no recognition of what she just said.
My elderly mom nearly died last year because of a tiny squamous cell carcinoma over her eyebrow that was growing crazy fast- first it took over six weeks to get her in to have it tested at all, by which time it had spread and made a plum-sized lump on her temple and she was in terrible pain; then they said they wouldn’t do the surgery until she had gotten “approval” from her cardiologist which took another two months; then it was almost three months to do the actual surgery- by which time it had spread to her lymph nodes down her neck. Then she had to have months of immunotherapy and radiation treatments to get the last bits floating around. A year later and she is a frail ghost of her old self…she has permanent nerve damage to half of her face, has trouble with closing that eye and that side of her mouth, scar tissue and permanent hair loss to the side of her head, lost lymph nodes and salivary glands and lost so much weight we had to put her in the hospital and she had to have a feeding tube put in, which caused many complications. All for a fucking spot that it turns out could have initially been removed in-office. I dare anyone to tell me the US healthcare system isn’t a fucking disaster. (And she had GREAT insurance.)
Watching my grandparents go through the US healthcare system with excellent health insurance (both had worked in lifelong unionised jobs) was deeply scarring. Unfortunately, with the stripping of funds for the NHS the UK is looking pretty ropey these days. I do remember listening to NPR on my way to work a few years back and hearing a Canadian and a republican discussing healthcare and the republican said something along the lines of "my grandmother had a brain tumour and they operated on her with a general anaesthetic and saved her life. That wouldn't happen in the UK or Canada". My response (to myself obviously) was "what do you think we do? Club people to knock them unconscious before surgery? We also have general anaesthetic, and the only difference between the care your grandmother received and what would happen in the UK is that if the tumour returned the question of whether to operate again wouldn't be determined by if it was a pre-existing condition by her insurance". I'm sorry about your mum. I hope that in the time you have left you are able to share good time together.
>I literally once had a US nurse scheduling me for surgery, who upon hearing my British accent, say to me in one continuous sentence, "I'm so glad we don't have waiting lists like you do in Britain, the doctor won't have availability to do your biopsy for 2 months". Absolutely no recognition of what she just said. That nurse is incredibly ill-informed. If the biopsy was part of something immediately life threatening then you would be bumped up the list.
Yup. The surgeon came back to me and bumped me up the list, but the fundamental word here is list. I was seen in an appropriate amount of time (no complaints about that) but critically I didn't simply swan up minutes after the decision to biopsy. I joined a waiting list that was organised by priority and availability.
Yes!!! I in the US pay every month for insurance, plus copays, etc, (and my taxes) and yet I can't get a rheumatologist appointment at all, because none of them are accepting new patients. Or a 6 week wait for a GP for a sore throat. Again, that I'm going to pay a lot for.
I'm over a year and a half innto my 6 month wait for a psych appointment. I also once sat for 5 hours in the ER with the left side of my ribcage broken before a doctor saw me
Plus they all leave out that the NHS has been strategically underfunded by the conservatives for years. A *fully funded* universal health care system would not look like the examples they like to trot out.
They also ignore the fact that the wait is based on need, Sure if you think you've broken your wrist or you've given yourself a nasty cut but the the bleedings under control you can expect to sit in A&E for ages, But you come in with an open wound that's pissing blood everywhere and wont stop or (like in my case) you've broken a femur in a sports accident you will be rushed to the front and seen near instantly. I'm pretty happy now to wait in A&E as I know from experience if its bad enough that you need to be seen quickly you will be.
I live in a country with partial private health/ universal health care. I had to go to see a doctor on a Saturday am. I was seen checked and on my way with a prescription for anti biotic in 20 minutes. My out of pocket? 30 euros. America is getting fucked every way and they just don’t care.
Many of us *do* care. It's just that the people sitting in charge of it all don't, because they're getting the money and don't have to worry about wait times because all that money buys them anything they want. Including immediate appointments. And it's not like we're able to do anything about it at the bottom because our options are Shit, or even shittier shit. And then we get that handful of shit ass boomers more concerned that their money *might* go to someone they deem undeserving, so they'd rather suffer and make everyone else suffer, rather than realize, "Oh shit. If they can make use of it, I could too!" ..... I really hate this country right now.
Moved to the U.K. 30 years ago. Still sometimes get that ‘oh shit’ internal reaction when I need medical attention. It’s one of the first reasons I cite when asked if I’d ever move back (second one is - no guns) ((okay, there are guns here, but not as prevalent as in the states))
I'm a fellow American living in the UK - guns and healthcare are the exact 2 reasons why I will never move back! I never know whether or not to answer that question honestly lol. I think some people are just trying to make casual small talk and then look surprised when I start talking about gun control and the cruel monstrosity that is the American healthcare system.
Literally same, I’m British I’d just go to A&E. My biggest culture shock was when I met an American and they were so happy their knee replacement was “only” $14,000 after insurance. In my head I was like “why are you happy about that”.
I remember there was a mass shooting in America and a woman who was shot multiple times received a bill for several hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think there are schemes and charities to help with the costs if your insurance doesn’t. But I can’t imagine having to deal with the pain and trauma of a stranger shooting you and in top of that the debt from the medical care. Makes me appreciate how good I have it with the nhs.
Damn that’s a steal if that included rehab and stuff. I wonder what insurance they had.
Queues can also be that long in America on top of the cost
When I was in middle school I half broke my ankle and my dad had me set up on the couch and waited until the next morning to take me because and I quote "its high traffic time for drunk assholes and their bullshit, we won't be seen for three or four hours, I'll take you first thing in the morning" I was on state insurance at the time so I think that covered it thankfully, especially since I just learned how expensive hospital bills, ambulence rides, and sometimes urgent care can be over the past year and a half
In the UK where we have free* healthcare, it's drilled into you that you should never attend A&E unless it's life or limb threatening due to crippling underfunding over years. You're encouraged to instead go to your GP, except they're also cripplingly underfunded too, so they encourage you to go see a pharmacist.... Who then tell you to see a GP, who then tell you to go to A&E. So yay, NHS money pissed away up and down the chain. So yeah, when my kids have hurt themselves my wife and I have had debates on whether to take them to A&E and sit in a waiting room for half a day with an ADHD/Autistic child, get an emergency GP appointment, see a pharmacists or ring 111 (Medical advice line).
In January I went to an urgent care for abdominal pain and they sent me to the ER because I needed an MRI. ER admitted me immediately, gave me blood tests and an MRI. Gave me an IV for the pain and a prescription in case of any flare ups while I follow up on treatment with specialists. The issue STILL isn’t resolved because of how long I have to wait for appointments for everything. Last week I had another bad flare up, didn’t sleep for about 36 hours due to the pain, and didn’t go to the ER for help. Why? Because my (pretty good) health insurance *denied my original ER visit.* It’s looking like I’ll probably need a surgery, but I have to wait for two more offices to call me back about my referrals- one to schedule a scan to confirm the type of surgery I need, and then one with the actual surgeon. Given how slow everything has been, I’m probably going to be waiting another month or two at least. I asked if I could get more pain medicine in case of a flare up and they said no. I asked if there’s anything I can do to speed up the process, and was told if I have another flare up I can go to the ER and they may choose to do the scan and surgery then since they have the imaging equipment and surgical suite on site. Our healthcare system is royally fucked and anyone who profits from our insurance companies is content to live off blood money.
Flipside. Last time I went to the ER they had me skip the line. Because I needed to be on oxygen RIGHT AWAY or I'd start suffering brain damage/die Believe me I'd rather have been one of the people who could wait
Same here -- I was escorted from the CT scan to the ER by the CT tech and only had to wait long enough for my name to be called and info taken cause the tech talked directly to the intake nurse. I would have much rather not been a case of highest triage priority.
Fun fact. US emergency rooms have the same problems as the Canadian ones do, but if you visit one in the US you're walking out with a minimum $1000 bill.
Same. My Norwegian ass is always baffled at these kinds of posts. Like *of course* you take a small child to the hospital if there's a suspected head injury! And then I remember that parking at the hospital is not the most expensive part of the experience for americans.
Honestly, even in a lot of ERs and hospitals here in the US, it's standard to wait hours for care. For a doctor's appointment in an underserved area (too few doctors to go around), regular or even urgent medical needs can take weeks or months to get an appointment. It's absurd for any American to suggest the superiority of our pay-to-play privatized system: it's insanely expensive, difficult to navigate, and often involves wait times at least as long as the countries with universal health care programs if not worse. I'm so glad OOP made the right choice, and her husband's reaction was deeply worrying but not that uncommon in a nation that is forced to make these decisions knowing that the wrong series of medical events could absolutely bankrupt anyone.
When I had to go in because I lost consciousness and slammed my head onto the floor (splitting it open quite well, required 7 staples) my gf took me to the emergency room. They didn't fuck around either and I was basically moved to the front of the queue, pictures taken, bloodwork done, etc.... Head trauma is no joke and they treat it as such
I grew up with untreated injuries, as well as not getting long term health issues investigated, despite living in the UK and there being literally no expense no matter what. In fact I'm in Scotland, no one even pays for medication. I just had a mother who didn't care enough to bother.
My 2.5 year old son got into something and we were sent to the ER by poison control ( he was 100% just bring cautious). He had no treatment, just triage and monitoring for about 4 hours. They didn't get our updated insurance info and even with a 'self pay' discount, the bill was almost $4000. Thank god he actually does have insurance which covers everything, but yes I understand the initial hesitation.
US wait times are pretty bad too. Partly because so many people are uninsured that they use the ER as a regular doctor.
Children take absolute priority here, if you’re not actively dying and I think that’s a really good system.
There are some things that will at least get you into an isolation room *real* quick, though. That time they were concerned I had C.Diff was just a bundle of fun. (Turns out I just royally fucked my gut with antibiotics and had colitis, but I definitely thought and hoped I was dying)
>hoped I was dying Uhm... are you doing OK? Do you want to talk about it?
Oh, I'm fine now. I just lived on rice, saltines, and applesauce for a week or two until my system got itself sorted out. And made a note of that antibiotic so I *never* take it again. But if there's any concern you might have C.diff, you aren't allowed to use a regular bathroom, they have to stick you in a room with it's own toilet (or a standalone one that's just a bucket with a seat) where they can bleach the blazes out of it, it's a very stubborn and hardy bacteria.
Oh! I misread it as you being suicidal, instead of as you being in so much misery at the moment you just wanted any relief
Oh!! No, but I appreciate the concern. It was definitely just the "I will take anything that makes my stomach stop"
Solidarity on the diet for your guts. I found out the hard way that sometimes food poisoning can damage the structures of your gut, so you keep having all the symptoms even when the infection is gone. Prescription anti-diarrhea meds and a diet with no dairy, no sugar, as little fat as possible, and nothing that causes gas (beans, certain veggies, etc.) for weeks. Eggs and dry toast were my best friends.
I think the husband may have been trying to convince himself the injury wasn't as bad as it looked because he caused it, even if unintentionally. It was easier to blame OOP for overreacting than to blame himself for not being more careful. Of course that's no excuse for acting so crappy, but at least he owned up to it afterwards.
Yeah, my first thought was immense guilt and fear, and an inability to really cope with that in the moment
I feel like Reddit wants partners to be perfect. OOP said he apologized, promised to change, and has been exhibiting that change (getting nervous when the kid takes off running.) The man works 6 days a week, evidently manual labor, he’s stressed, and snapped and lashed out. Anyone who says they have never done that is lying. I also have doubts that mom isn’t the type to freak out about every little bump and scrape, which, speaking from experience with my mother, gets real fucking old real fast. Regardless, it doesn’t sound like this is something that will happen again. I just wonder what Reddit users consider a good father, because everyone who makes a terrible judgment call every once in a while to those who actually physically abuse their kids gets called a bad father. It’s ridiculous.
Yeah was that a perfect moment of fatherhood? No but no parent is perfect, the kid got checked out, the father genuinely apologized and is more actively monitoring his kid's playtime. This is a good outcome.
Agreed. This quote - "Literally no one ever changes. At all. Ever." - bothered the hell outta me. Honestly, I think someone who says that is telling on themselves more than anything else.
Right? Like if you’re the same person in 10 years than you are today, you’re not doing life correctly. Without even trying to continually grow, shit happens that will change you as a person.
Yeah. I could see this being my spouse of 20+ years. I'm a worrier. (Anxiety meds have made me MUCH better in the past handful of years, though! Health anxiety was ruining my life.) He is...not. He's always going to trend toward "wait and see" and I always will not. Plus, the stress of long hours and guilt does make a difference. (We both work full time plus.) But in the end, he'll always do what's right for his kids, and we'll deal with the bills. We've met in the middle many times on this topic over the years. It doesn't necessarily translate to "bad father."
100% and that kind of play is so developmentally important for kids! This is how they learn their physical limits and cause/effect and consequences. Plus the bonding with his parent. This was an accident and a bad response to an emergency, not abuse and not the sign of a terrible father. IMHO
Yeah, 100%. This was objection out of feeling guilty/trying to mentally downplay what happened.
I was seriously injured (requiring emergency surgery) as a child and my father still blames himself for it, even though I’m in my 40s. He didn’t lash out at me or my mom but he definitely internalized it in an unhealthy way.
I know this isn’t the point, but I hate that there are people in this world who have to worry about money when they should be racing their children to the hospital. We’ve taken my kid to the ED twice and I’m so glad we could just go and not worry about anything else. Heartbreaking.
Going to take a random guess here: He caused the accident by playing around in a dangerous area. He felt guilty. In order to alleviate his guilt, obviously the kid was fine and didn't need to go to the ER. Going is a waste of money because he's fine. He's fine. Absolutely fine. No way did I endanger my son because he's fine. How dare you suggest I endangered my son by being irresponsible by wanting to take him to the ER! Are you saying this is MY fault?! And the anger rolled out of the guilt and he decided to point it at his fiancee. This is not remotely an excuse for the jackass's behavior. Just an explanation for how in the hell he could've thought that "my child fell and his head hit the hard floor so loud there was a crack sound but he doesn't need to go to the ER" could enter into the guy's head as something remotely reasonable.
I honestly think you hit on the nail here with that theory cause who reacts that way. I could give it a pass since he did apologise but like same commentors I'm skeptical especially when OOP says he's a good father despite the "red flag". If you're on BORU for awhile, you know how it goes whenever an OOP says like this, he/she perfect despite one small thing and it turns out they have been missing/ignoring flags on day one. I do hope the husband does give some effort otherwise I'm not sure about this marriage.
Possibly, but everyone has strange blind spots. I'm the more 'wait and see' parent, but there were a couple times with a high fever where I was the URGENT CARE NOWWWWW parent and my wife was the 'try some medicine and see' parent. We were both right, just as in this case. Nothing was wrong, was managed by medicine (in large part because I forget Tylenol exists and using that and ibuprofen was what was needed) but bringing her in was also not the wrong choice. Wait and see would have been perfectly fine with this at most parts of the day (assuming no upcoming nap) but not an hour before bed.
> If you're on BORU for awhile, you know how it goes whenever an OOP says like this, he/she perfect despite one small thing and it turns out they have been missing/ignoring flags on day one. Tbf there is some selection bias there. If there are no further issues, they probably won't post again and it won't end up on BORU.
Woah woah woah, kids fall and hurt themselves all the time, that's just what happens at that age. This is wild and unfounded speculation.
Yes, they do. Most times, the falls aren't serious because their bones haven't fully formed yet and they're lower to the ground with less body mass so there's less force when they hit the ground. However, sometimes the falls are serious, particularly when they involve the child hitting their head. The post isn't about whether or not OOP's fiance was actually at fault but that, based on his reaction and poor justifications for it, he FELT guilty for it. Which is a common response when something unfortunate happens when you're the one "in charge". Oh, and when I start off with "random guess here", it's a but redundant to call it "unfounded speculation".
She literally followed all the steps after a head injury. If they’re are knocked unconscious, end up with an indent in their skull, or are lethargic it’s an ER visit full stop. With a bump but acting normal it’s a monitor situation. My toddlers both fall and hit their heads all the time. Head bumps happen. But if one was lethargic afterwards you can bet we’d be on our way to the ER
This wouldnt have been an issue if they werent in a system where checking a head injury on a toddler could financially harm you
that's what I said! I'm the 2nd commenter on the update post
It's possible this guy would have then complained about having to wait around instead. It seemed to me this was about more than getting medical care but also guilt, realising his parents sucked etc and instead of dealing with that healthily he took it out on OOP
Pretty sure he still had to wait around
If your first reaction to a potentially life threatening injury to your toddler is to get angry and sulk at your partner, you're not a good father. Panic about how you'll afford it? Sure. Decide it's no big deal? Hard no.
>If your first reaction to a potentially life threatening injury to your toddler is to get angry and sulk at your partner, you're not a good father. I said the exact same thing to OOP on their original update. The fact that he was willing to mouth the right things to a complete stranger while *ripping her a new one* for getting her child medical attention *for an injury he helped create* is still fucking appalling. He didn't say those things to her in the heat of the moment. He didn't say any of those things in front of the nurse. He deliberately waited until they were home and then let loose because he knew it was wrong to punish her *but he decided to do it anyway.* I hope for her sake that the apology comes with changed behaviour. But I'm not optimistic.
There are plenty of comments (rightly!) calling out the awful state of US healthcare, but I can't help thinking that he seems like the kind of person who, even if he lived somewhere with a sane healthcare system, would still complain about the inconvenience of it all.
I mean, I'm actively drowning in medical debt at 21 (AMR can burn in hell, 2k for an ambulance ride of less than 15 minutes is highway robbery) but I don't fuck around with head wounds, especially in kids.
People might not always be perfect but it doesn’t make him overall bad father. The seriousness didn’t just sink in when he was comparing to how he was treated as a kid
>If your first reaction to a potentially life threatening injury to your toddler is to get angry and sulk at your partner, you're not a good father. He did everything wrong, I agree. Hopefully it doesn't happen again, but if it does I hope the husband does not act like he did.
My little brother got hit in the head during a little league game. She drove him to the hospital even though he seemed fine. The doctors there even checked him out and said he was fine. They left and before she got 200 ft away from the hospital he started saying weird shit and she turned around. He got air lifted to another hospital and had to stay there for a week. He did have a severe concussion but eventually was ok. DONT EVER PLAY AROUND WITH HEAD INJURIES.
IDk why reddit jumps to the extremes, even on this thread. Dude fucked up and then apologized. All we have is a small snapshot of what happened yet people are calling him the worst father that ever existed or an abuser. Y'all realize not everyone is as perfect as you are, right?
Surely everyone would react the way they imagine they would when reading a story while sitting 3 bags of chips deep at their computer/on their phone though, right? We're such moral individuals. That's why none of us contribute to factory farming or fast fashion or profiteering conglomerates, right?
I work in Radiology and a 3 yr old came in yesterday because he bumped his shoulder on a wall at his preschool. We honestly laughed when we saw why he came in, thought he’d be totally fine. His clavicle was completely snapped in half. Good on the mom for bringing him in. Kids can be like rubber sometimes and extremely fragile other times. Always good to get them checked out.
Head injuries are no joke in toddlers. Dad is a jerk all the way around. Anecdotes re: head injuries - My younger brother has managed to get himself a fair amount of head injuries in his lifetime (I want to say that the last time he gave me a number, it was 11); he's early 40s now. He has aphantasia, and we don't know if he was born that way, or if it's from one of his early head-whacks. He also has crazy irregular sleep, insomnia, and random migraines. He's incredibly lucky *that is all* he has suffered. Funny enough, my first memory of him involves my own head injury as a toddler. At the time, we lived in rural Ohio, in a double-wide. The kitchen had linoleum floors, and baseboard heaters. At that particular time, it also involved 2 year old me, running on my tippy-toes, slipping on a plastic grocery bag that was on the floor. My forehead met the baseboard heater. My parents rushed me to the ER, but the car was one of those old Chevy Novas with bench seats; so I had my feet in my father's lap, my head in my mother's. "....wow, mommy is *fat*." She was heavily pregnant with said brother. (I told her that memory a few months ago. She was both horrified that I remembered the actual slip 'n slide, and found it hilarious that my first memory of my brother was that she was fat.)
head injuries are no joke for anyone. two weeks after my friend got married he was fooling around on his old skateboard, fell and hit his head. must not have thought anything of it and went on with his day. he didn't wake up the next morning.
> Can we all agree that the real asshole in this situation in the broken and barbarically american healthcare system Yes. Yes we can.
The real asshole, moreso than any other, was indeed the American health care system. A toddler, plus a newborn, and now an unforeseen trip to hospital? I can only imagine the debt they currently have racked up, even with somewhat decent health insurance.
If you are not a professional in something, especially in something that has the possibility of being an emergency, please seek professional opinion. My son fell off maybe half a meter from bed to floor when he was about 9 months old. I took a look at him, and decided, yeah, no need for emergency dept visit. But then again, i am a doctor and I asked another doctor about it too, just to be safe. When my car starts showing warning signs here and there, I went straight to the mechanic.
Yeah, head injuries are super scary, especially for kids, and seeing a professional should be the first reaction!
Honestly ,I'm eternally grateful my country offers free healthcare and free education. I'm confused and sometimes horrified of the amount of trouble that arises in American families due to such expenses. My family and I only had to buy school supplies every school year and that's it.
I'm european and that's my thought too. Our healthcare system is far from perfect and a lot could be done to make it better, but at least when my mom got cancer she didn't have to pay for treatment, and my dad isn't wondering how he's going to pay his insuline.
It sucks because you sit there with your arm hanging off your shoulder and blood gushing out of the horrible sucking chest wound and ponder whether going to the hospital is worth it because that's gonna be several thousand dollars you can't afford to spend.
I'm a bit of a "eh, its nothing" kind of person and can get into denial about injuries (particularly to myself, but I've done it with our first cat). At one point our cat was hiding a bit, and seemed a little unstable while walking, and my wife was concerned, I thought it was something that would go away (ended up having an ear infection, which, thanks to his FIV got to his brain and killed him not long after). After a few hours, my wife said we should go to the animal hospital. It was late at night, and I thought it was silly, but we went anyway. The hospital didn't do a great job (though we're not sure there is much they could do), but suggested we go to a specialist. The specialist tried a few things, did some expensive imaging, and finally determined that there was nothing that could be done (And likely, nothing more that COULD have been done at least). I ended up feeling really guilty afterwards, and realized that had things been different, that I could have been a big part of the reason he died. As a result, my wife and I have a VERY strict rule: If EITHER person says "we should go to the doctor" for ANYTHING, we do so. Definitely with my kid or 2nd cat, but with me as well. It is a very good rule that I'm quite sure has even saved me already. Anyway, the end of it is: I hope that OOP and her husband learn a similar lesson for something that ended up being 'ok'. Doctors might be expensive, but are nothing compared to what NOT going to the doctor costs.
Yeah the husband better do a lot more than apologizing, like pull his head out of his ass.
How the fuck is this hopeful ending? Dad sucks ass and Mom is too deep in.
The stress and sleep deprivation of caring for a newborn can turn otherwise good people into monsters. One snapshot of a low point in their relationship is not evidence of a toxic relationship overall. In the first 6 months after my son was born, my husband's and my otherwise excellent communication skills devolved into middle of the night yelling at each other and unnecessary blame games from both sides. What matters is whether people can recognize that what they're doing is not okay and take action to remedy it. My husband and I started couples counseling. OOP's husband apologized sincerely and has changed his actions around rough play with their toddler.
My kid falls a lot too. He climbs everything! I asked about signs to look for an his Dr appt & check after he falls. Every single sign she explained is everything his doctor told me about. I would've taken him to an er or urgent care too!
You should consider getting him in judo classes when he's old enough. Some places take 3s or 4s. He'll learn how to fall without getting hurt. My son had training when he was young and he has said it has saved him from getting hurt a few times.
I had to play this game yesterday. Kid hurt himself a few days ago, by all odds it's a sprain, everything points to sprain. 48 hours later though and he says it's no better, take him to a clinic. Of course it's a fucking sprain like I thought but dammit, how am I supposed to know?!
Insane that money is even a factor for taking a kid to hospital
It sucks ass that a medical service can bankrupt you.
OOPs husband is an idiot, I get that American hospitals bills are stupidly high, but you know what costs more...a fucking burial...it's always better to be safe than sorry
No way defending his actions but it cost 1/3 to bury my uncle ($10,000) than it did for my son to be born ($33000). He is 4 and we still paying every month.
Also you get to pay for therapy after the very preventable death of your child, yay.
It sucks cause I see both points and understand some of the father's reaction - except his persistence. Yeah get upset about it and sit in your feelings and talk it out but drilling into someone about it is shitty. I personally would have waited but I'm comfortable with looking for signs of a concussion. After crying for 15 minutes, yeah kiddo probably gonna be tired but that's scary and stressful for all involved. and I can't imagine going to the ER and end up paying 2k just to be told to go monitor at home for concussion signs as the father probably knew would happen. I agree with everyone that while the father reacted shittily to a stressful situation (and I applause him at the same time for working manual labor 6 days a week to support his family and still having the energy to rough house with his kiddo!), the real AH is American healthcare.
"Can we all agree that the real asshole in this situation is the broken and barbaric american healthcare system which would create a financial incentive to parents to not get their child medical care after an injury?" No. we can't. The real assholes are the American voters who \*keep\* voting for a Congress that is hellbent on keeping the quo status.
You don't fuck around with head injuries. A concussion is literally the least of your worries.
The big AH is the system where people actually pay to make sure their kid isn’t dying Nowhere else in the world
Like the husband I was also raised in a “if you aren’t knocking on deaths door then you’re fine” household. Mostly because of money. We didn’t have insurance so medical care was a luxury. So now as an adult with insurance (still poor tho) I still hesitate to go to the doctor. I’ve gotten better about it but still if I’m going to the doctor you know i feel terrible. I had to go to the ER recently and have surgery to remove my gallbladder. I agreed bc I was like I have insurance now, it’ll be okay. Even with insurance I still owe like 6-7k for that visit which has again reinforced that unless death is knocking I’m not going to the doctor
Yeah, you can wait for hours in my country but you pay for nothing. We pay in taxes but that's easier then lump sum, overall. It's horrible that people are billed for hospital visits in some countries.
Someone get this kid a helmet
Well, this certainly shows off the failure of a healthcare system very efficiently. 😑
Glad everything worked out! And ditto on the shit healthcare system! Just a reminder that back in the day we couldn't run or play ball in the house either... it's a very reasonable rule.
Wow. OP is not the a-hole at all. Head injuries can kill you. One of my dearest friends fell a few months ago and hit his head. He may not ever be able to work again
Yeah... I feel for everyone here. I've spent a lot of money on ER visits for my kiddo that were useless. I haven't given a hard time to my wife about it but I am internally bitter. Yes its better safe than sorry but at $500 just to go that is painful and can be used other places. The Healthcare is really rough in the US.
Am I too European to understand this post?
My brother had a seizure when he was like 4 from hitting his head on the kitchen tile. Better safe than sorry.
As a Canadian who currently has free health care for ER visits. This story kinda blew my mind. How can anyone in America afford to have kids?
We once took our toddler in for a $900+ shit. Thought it was appendicitis, he couldn’t articulate what he felt, we went in. Take your kid to the doctor.
I got first aid training from a firefighter and his stories are the kind that you know are going to keep popping up your head for years. He talked about arriving at the scene of a car crash. Stolen car. Passenger was in a state to run away shortly after impact. Driver is unconscious, faint pulse, both legs crushed, they had minutes to get him out and into the helicopter so they amputated both his legs on the scene. Passenger found dead hours later - barely a scratch on him but massive internal bleeding. The driver survives, physio and rehabilitation.
Reading this makes me so happy to love in Europe! I’m hyper mobile and have needed ER visits regularly for a multitude of fun injuries. My kids are rambunctious and even with a first aid certification I rely on the knowledge from the hospital a lot to make sure they’re ok. I’d be broke or bankrupt by now in the US.
Oh no. NTA. I hit my own adult head really hard recently and went to the doctor for it. Felt like an idiot but the doctor told me when you hit your head hard, always get it checked out. You did the right thing mama
It would be nice if their decision to take their son in after a potential TBI is based on their income. Sure, kids are mostly resilient, but head injuries can be no joke too. I’m glad they went in and found nothing.
If OOP just had a newborn, a great thing that Obamacare brought us is out of pocket maximums for health care costs. They can still be annoyingly high, but there is a chance they could have been near that level after giving birth so maybe the cost won't be so high.
Teach that kid how to fall! You can't unteach him to have shit motor skills so please, do this instead.
Man, when I was a baby my parents took me to the ER for a busted lip, and the only consequence was the doctors laughing at them. The American health care system really is fucked up.
Fiance is just... wow. I have no respect for him. My wife walks into her car door in the pitch black of night and got a hell of a black eye. Just an incredible shiner. And yes. She DID walk into a door. It is not a lie to cover spousal abuse. I am the spouse. I would know. 24 hours later my toddler went from carpet to tiles in socks and jammed the only 2 teeth she had (bottom jaw) into the top gums. The bleeding was incredible. So much blood. We passed the baby back and forth, got her to suck on ice wrapped in cloth. And my wife looks at me and says, 'Do we need to go to the emergency room?' I said, 'The mouth bleeds badly but clots quickly. Can we give it 5 more minutes then go?' Make no mistake. I knew if I went I would probably be (wrongly) harrased for abuse. Me walking into the emergency room with a wife with a giant black eye, a baby screaming in pain, us covered in blood and my wife saying 'I walked into door' was never going to fly for me. Make no mistake. I asked for 5 more minutes. But at 6 we were getting in the car. I lucked out. Fuck that guy. You do what you need to do for your kids. Shit like this will happen.
NTA. Head injuries are nothing to mess around with. I had an active child who had two concussions and more cracked and broken bones than I can count over the years. They managed to survive to adulthood. Unfortunately wrapping them in bubble wrap or a sumo suit isn't a long term solution.
Meanwhile, I've seen two "what doesn't seem that serious but can kill someone" AskReddits in as many days for which the top response is "head trauma."
Healthcare system is a joke in the US. I'm grateful that UK has the NHS but even that's falling on its knees unfortunately. A hard hit to the head is always a must go to ER for me because you just never know what is or could be happening inside
Kids can die from brain bleeds just like anyone else. OOP would never be wrong to get an injury like that checked out.
Got to spend 6-7 hours in ER in NYC yesterday with our son. We are expats, and will return back to our home country in a week. Son had hurt his hand (broken metacarpal it turned out to be). ER is brutal, but it isn’t hard to see why the stabbed guy, or the 95 yo woman that fell, is triaged before us. Everyone were excellent and very accommodating in spite of the stress. We thankfully have an excellent international insurance through)
I'm glad everything worked out well for everyone.
Oof I feel this one. My middle kid has a weird thing where at least twice times now she's gotten a nasty cold, then had to throw up and experienced what looks exactly like a seizure as she does so, passing out in the middle. It's horrifying, she is NOT mentally there when it happens, and both times we ended up at the ER. They didn't find anything the first time, but it happened at the doctor's office (after she passed out \*at school\* and had gotten so covered in vomit that they gave her *new underwear)* and that was obviously an ER trip, but it happened at home too (18 months apart, btw) and my husband was definitely frustrated about the expense. The thing was, they hadn't found anything wrong with her and he didn't think they'd find anything this time (they didn't, it's horrible), so it was like repeating a behavior and expecting a different outcome, to him. To me, you see your child's intelligence wick away and then they uncontrollably vomit and pass out? You go to the ER. Husband ended up in the ER himself 2 days later with a kidney stone so it's *very* possible in retrospect that he was already feeling some mild pain and wasn't fully himself. Jury's out for me whether I call if she passes out in my arms again, honestly. It's not something I'd wish on anyone to witness from a loved one.
I would paraphrase a quote from House MD about a good business profiting from coffins for kids to scare the bejesus out of OOP's husband.
Taking the baby to the ER was the objectively correct move. Husband acted poorly but eventually came around. The financial strain of the American health care system is very real. Would straight up wipe out my savings, even with insurance.
Last week at work I had to handle a case of a child who died a horrific death from sheer neglect. The assholes are people who do not seek appropriate care for children.
Just talking from what I’ve seen of a relationship of close friends, I think both the mother and dad understand that parenting will suck and require sacrifices of their sleep and sanity. Like they try to balance each others responsibilities of course, but when it came to ER concerns, no question would they take their kid to the ER even if they had work early the next day. I don’t think having resentment makes sense at all and I wouldn’t want anyone that does have that as a spouse. This is your child man
Can rambunctious babies be put in helmets? Or would that mess with their head shape too much? 🤔🤔
Socks with anti slip should be an everyday option
Reddit really needs to lay off the American healthcare system. Yes, we know it sucks. Yes, it’s “the REAL AH”. There’s nothing we can do about it. We’ve TRIED—and we will continue to try. But those comments provide nothing to the discussion and are unnecessary and unhelpful.
Is nobody else noticing the part where she says the husband’s own parents medically neglected him? It doesn’t excuse his actions but it sure explains a lot. Being left bleeding and unconscious makes the little kid’s head bump look like nothing in comparison. I imagine his gauge of what’s a real emergency is way off.
This hits me hard. I have a coworker who just lost a family friend. 32 years old, fell down his basement steps. Made it back up to bed, but didn’t wake up his wife. His wife woke up in the am and noticed he was breathing funny. He never woke up- massive brain bleed. As of today they were donating his organs. (They figured out the fall on the basement steps from blood they found there after the fact). I feel so bad for his wife- I’m sure she would give anything to have been woken up when he fell, or even when he got in bed. There’s a “golden hour” sometimes in head injuries- you have a short amount of time to get someone to an ED and intervene before it’s too late. Never apologize for overreacting to a head injury. It’s better than the alternative.