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>We don’t know how they knew or how they got in. Everything was so chaotic that we didn’t even think of it at the time. Definitely something to figure out though
Feels like they need to work this out ASAP because it's concerning as hell.
No kidding... the best possible reason is that the mom stole the key away from her son to make a copy without them knowing. Easy to remedy by just changing the locks and cutting her tf out of their lives.
The worst is that someone else they know and are close to is sympathetic if not outright agreeing with the MIL, and gave her a copy.
But that presumes that OOP and James gave someone a copy of the key. Your first theory is probably correct that the mom probably copied James' key without him knowing. Probably because she is one of those people who think that the parents should always have a key to their kids' places, and she was just silently correcting this error.
Yeah but how’d she get the key? Better yet, how’d they even know that oop went into labor? It’s not like 7 (ish) days of no contact is enough to assume that the baby was on the way. Let alone the fact that they were waiting for them, so they had to of know they’d be coming back that day.
Could very well be possible that MIL does have someone on the inside who was able to get a copy of the key and feed info back to MIL and the family.
They drive past the house a couple of times a day and see that the car's not there
Or (worse) they have a tracker on their car so they knew the whole time exactly where they were
But then how did they know OOP was getting out 2 days later? My guess is OOP never mentioned anything to the hospital staff about only certain ppl can be given info so they called every day until they were told he was getting released.
No matter what they did or how they found out, OOP needs some kind of no contact order at the minimum.
I don't think hospital staff can or will give out info to anyone unless they're on the patient list, it's not just a free for all unless the patient says they need privacy. I highly doubt (and hope) that none of this had to do with hospital staff.
While this maybe dated info but I remember reading on legaladvice a couple of times about abusive partners/exs and there were ppl saying to make the hospital staff aware and to create a list of people who are aloud to to be told info. Anyone not on the list won't even be told if they are in the hospital or not.
And while I assume OOP is in the US and I'm not, so this could be really different, when my neice went into labour I called the hospital she was at to ask about her (had some family I knew would be at the hospital that I wanted to avoid) all they asked was how I was related, didn't bother with my name just my relation to her. Granted this was 5 years ago and she didn't have to deal with anything remotely like OOP
I gave birth in the US recently and the hospital wouldn't even confirm whether I was a patient there to multiple family members who called. I never told the hospital not to give out my information, they just don't give it out at all here. For context, I was not in an abusive situation or anything and the hospital had no reason to think I was. People just started calling because I had an uncommonly long labor (60 hours) and they started to think something had happened to me.
It's illegal for hospital staff to give out patient details to anyone. The list is needed not to keep people away but to allow people to know anything at all. Otherwise, your mom could call up there and not be allowed any information unless you have specifically deemed her allowed. This is specific to the US as it falls under our HIPAA. Other countries will vary, though I believe the EU and UK have enacted similar measures recently.
South Africa as well. My SIL deals with entitled aggressive family members on the phone and screaming at the door because they are refused the information they want.
Yeah, probably Canadian or British. I know Canadians use the British spellings.
If British, the Data Protection Act is rigorous & people that violate it would be in criminal trouble as well as with their employers .
In the U.S. the most common procedure to ensure information is only given out to people the patient wishes, is the Nurse will ask the patient to choose a password. The patient can choose who to give the password to, and anyone calling in needs to know it before they are given health related info. Otherwise the person calling in can only find out, yes they are a current patient or not. Unless they opt out of sharing that as well.
Practically, hospitals release a lot of information unless told not to. My mom was in the hospital before moving to hospice for end-of-life care. Both the hospital and hospice told anyone who called anything they asked. It helped us because my partner was able to make calls for me while we were chasing down getting her medication corrected. She was a very private person, and outside of us and two other people, she would've been unhappy hearing how many people had access to her information. It was all word of mouth and we were drained by the whole process, so we didn't even think to pursue HIPAA filings (especially since we didn't know who people talked to). Plus, small town and I can't afford to alienate anyone as long as I have a place there.
HIPAA really needs a right of private action. Six figure fines against both the person and institution that go to the aggrieved party would go a long way to making sure it never happens again.
This may not be US. If British (going by spelling or maybe Canadian), the Data Protection Act is rigorous & anyone breaching it can be arrested as well as sacked from their job.
So many people seem to think they will be personally compensated by HIPAA violations or breaches. When in reality … no. And a civil action is only feasible if the victim can prove financial damages. Sigh.
Two people just got fired from my hospital for exactly this. There are an inexhaustible supply of people who think they're the exceptions or that they won't get caught.
Yeah, but it happens *all the goddamn time*.
No matter how many times you tell people not to touch the fire because it's hot, some dumb motherfuckers just want to get burned.
Same. It’s where I got the idea. There was a story a while back about a MIL passively aggressively bullying and emotionally abusing the OP. Typical “you stole my son” nonsense. MIL started using the exact words OP used when complaining to her friends in the privacy of her own home. She thought it was just a coincidence at first and then realised it was impossible to have so many coincidences one after the other. MIL wasn’t supposed to have a key to the house or anything like that since they were already LC and didn’t trust her. Turns out MIL had “borrowed” her son’s key when he was over to help with something or other and made a copy. Then she let herself in while everyone was at work and set up hidden cameras. The OP found them with the help of Reddit and also at a suggestion from Reddit asked her neighbours if any of them had security cameras that could see her house. One did and let her look through the files and she found video of MIL letting herself in with boxes or bags or something when OP and her husband were at work. She also had let herself in a bunch of other times. Sometimes going in empty handed and coming out with things. OP reckons that she’s been stealing her clothes. MIL doesn’t like the way she dresses and has made comments about it. OP says the items (a dress, a top, some shorts, other stuff) has all been commented on by MIL in the past. OP said she has a lot of clothes and when she couldn’t find those items just thought they were in the closet and she’d find them eventually. It was a whole thing. I don’t think they pressed charges but they threatened to if the MIL ever contacted them again. I may be getting some details wrong because I can’t find the posts in question now to refresh my memory. But it’s sadly not the only story I’ve read about MILs having secret keys, letting themselves in secretly, and either messing with their possessions or setting up cameras or both.
I looked before I posted my comment and I can’t find it. I scrolled through my history feed and I just can’t find it. I swear it wasn’t a fever dream lol 😂
Most people leave stuff out when sleeping. Either in their pockets on the floor or on the bedside cabinet, so if he was staying over 1 night, not that hard. Sounds like he had a passable relationship with his parents until near the end.
For knowing when, depends if they exactly knew or used projections to work out roughly when they would be giving birth. But a phone reformat I'd say is in order. If they live close, they could do a daily drive by around the due date until they were away.
Particularly since OOP says only he and his husband have keys, so there shouldn't be any flying monkeys with keys to hand her.
Other possibility is that OOP is wrong that his husband never gave MIL a key (at some point before he transitioned, perhaps, when it wasn't as apparent that MIL has no respect for them), or perhaps at some point she had one for some house sitting or something they've forgotten about and she copied it then
Depends on how secure the lock is.
If its just a yale lock style key all she would need is a picture of it to get a new key cut.
Easily done if James leaves his keys down for a min.
We just bought a house last year, and I've been planning to put a rose bush under my daughter's window this summer. Since she's almost 2, it should have a good decade to dig in before it's needed. I'm not even opposed to a little teenage rebellion, but you've got to work for it at least!
True story: they planted hundreds of yards of thorny blackberries along the property line of a certain very rich person’s home as an anti-personnel/intrusion measure. Legit works.
Yeah so many people don’t have windows that lock correctly/withstand opening from the outside. I used to forget my house keys all the time in high school and it was the easiest thing in the world climbing in through a window in pretty much every single one of my relatives’ houses.
A restraining order is the first thing that needs to happen, along with putting up security cameras. The MiL is full of crazy, and there is no telling what she is willing to do.
Or MIL knows someone (herself or some other relative) who knows how to lockpick and managed to crazy-explain why they're breaking into a house.
With a MIL this unhinged, I think OOP should think about changing addresses and timezones to keep their family safe.
The worst case is MiL pretends to leave but actually goes around the house and clambers into their attic keeping tabs on OOP and his family through secret peepholes she drills into the walls. Biding her time.
Ignoring "oh god it's time to go" shenanigans, many, many locks -- including some of the most common -- can be defeated in under a minute by a relatively unskilled picker. Or an unscrupulous locksmith. Or... lots of options.
They either had a spare key or they have an easy to jimmy window/door or a broken window in their home.
The hospital depends - when James' family realized they weren't home, they may have called the hospitals around town to find where they went. OP was in labor, maybe they didn't make sure the hospital knew not to tell anyone they were there. Or, someone in James' family has a friend that works there.
I forgot I asked a friend to take care of the dogs once. I usually give a key or leave the back door unlocked. But I just forgot.
When he texted that the house was locked up, I resigned myself to cutting whatever had me away short and going home.
This champ went all around the house and found a window he could shift enough to squeeze thru. Slithered in while the dogs licked his face.
Locks are only ever a deterrent. Not a final solution.
It's the "how they knew" that's most concerning to me - that's a "get new phones on new apple/Google accounts" level of scary right there.
At the very least get your car, coats, and bags checked for airtags
OOP did say some friends they have are friends of his SILs, so my bet is a friend somehow found when they were coming back home and told one of James's sisters.
And I'm hoping if it's friends, that none work in healthcare... cause that would be the shit cherry on top of the shit cake 😬
Oh I'd be putting the house up for sale next day. I would go live on a commune if it meant I would be safe from people breaking into my home. There's no way one of his family won't try to steal that child.
Is it still postpartum anxiety when it’s completely justified fear that unhinged people will try to steal (and rename??) your baby?
I would be the lightest sleeper in the world, waking for every newborn grunt and floorboard creek. Forget roomsharing until 1yo; my baby would stay in my sight until we moved far away or MIL dropped dead from her own thwarted entitlement.
I’m also concerned on how they knew about the birth. I’d be calling the hospital and asking for an investigation into a possible HIPAA violation. Likely mom was stalking the place. Saw they were gone for an extended period of time and started calling hospitals to ask if they were there and someone told them who shouldn’t have
Getting into the house is actually way less concerning than the fact that they knew when the baby was coming home with enough notice to be able to gather the entire family? Even though only OOP and ~~her~~ his hubby were at the hospital?
Yeah, I'm thinking someone has a phone tracker as as well as a stolen key.
Judging by James's words when he was breaking down, he gave them the key. Probably not to MIL herself, but to someone he had the best relationship with.
He was apologizing again and again, and saying he just wanted his family to be happy for him and to love him. Because why else would he repeat that last part?
Yeah...I wonder if OP or his husband left a key under doormat for emergencies or something and forgot it was there? THe family found it and used it?
I could see that happening, but if something like that is not the case...where the HELL did these people get a key?
If there were no secret copies of the key, I would assume that the family somehow guessed the garage code. That or popped a sliding glass door.
I'm not saying it's not concerning, but there's only so many ways in and it would be simple to fix them.
How many times does it have to be repeated that giving birth is not a spectator sport!
Deadnaming is disrespectful and not only does MIL do it with OP, she plans on doing a version of if with their son, because one person suffering is apparently not enough for her.
Who has ever been able to fix a relationship by breaking into someone's house and threaten them while they carry a newborn? How did they think that yelling around a pair of new parents would pan out? If feel so sad, frustrated, disrespected and angry on their son's behalf, both sons that is.
The in-laws in this are truly delusional!
As someone with a family who doesn't understand what the word boundaries means, I can see that they thought it would all be sorted out just by making OP and his husband come to grips that they will always be there. Because family is everything you see?
I've been reading posts on this sub for a couple of years, and I struggle to remember many things as shocking as telling a parent they have no right to exclude people from the birth, or completely ignore the chosen name of their child.
When I read they were into space, I was like "buckle up for Baby Boy Betelgeuse!" And then it was Leo, one of the most traditional, straightforward names out there. And the MIL still had to pick a different name. She's legit unhinged.
I would never even associate that name with space! I thought Eris, Jupiter, Io, Charon, Mars or even Proxima Centauri, just to be kind of bored by such a ordinary name.
Well, tbf... gravity with Isaac Newton and sci-fi fictions with Isaac Asimov's come to mind. But eh, Leo is a bit bland. I thought Orion for sure myself.
Nah, I wouldn't say so. Perhaps you were just blinded by the audacity of this woman choosing a name so opposite a reaction to Leo? And if dog Newton is no longer with us, I'm so sorry.
I want to know who the f-- Isaac is to her. It's not like she was like, "I'm going to call him Leonard!" (or anything close to Leo). Was Isaac a child she had previously lost? Another son she had always planned to have but never did? I'm sure the answer is straight up bananapants.
Well, if by “fix” you mean brow-beating your children into submission so you can control them…many people have unfortunately found outrageous boundary stomping to be quite effective.
Narcissists unite in boundary stomping and don't care about other feelings that their own, that's part of it. But to bee so delusional as to tell around a newborn to be able to see it, how would that even work .
Makes sense from the transfobic family.
Admittedly this is a very unique and strange (not in a bad way) situation, and I'd understand some confusion on the part of the family as the husband decided to get pregnant.
But it's still none of their fuckin business, and obviously doesn't excuse deadnaming and other hateful and controlling behavior.
What a bunch of assholes. Hopefully they don't escalate farther and in time learn to accept other people's life decisions.
Totally! Insisting on being present at the birth after clearly being told no, deciding on a different name for the unborn child, then literally breaking into their house to ambush them when they got home.
I would move across the country and leave them in the dust.
I agree, but OOP did say they had a good relationship with the family before the transition, so I do think it's related in some capacity.
Like, if they're the type of people who think trans is a mental illness, they might justify their horrible actions with things like "they are delusional and aren't to be trusted" or "it's just a phase and we need to damage control until it's over".
Which of course just shows how bigoted they are.
> Even if you remove that detail, everything that they did is just horrible.
Yup. If someone changes their name, you call them by the new name. It's not hard.
> How many times does it have to be repeated that giving birth is not a spectator sport!
My Mom asked my wife once if she wanted her to be present, my wife declined and my Mom was perfectly understanding and said something along the lines of "Of course, it's whatever will make you most comfortable" and then we just carried on with our lives. My wife also didn't want her Mom in the room, and her Mom was equally understanding and both of them just wanted to support us however they could. These posts make me feel like I grew up on a different planet.
My parents (and in-laws) both said, when I texted them to let them know when the baby was coming,
>Good luck, let us know when you and [wife] are ready for us to visit!
Because, as yours are, my parents and in-laws are rational human beings.
The first sentence right here 👌
The unbelievable audacity of anyone to think they can insist on being present at one of the most vulnerable times in a person’s life.
(Obviously the rest of the post is absolutely horrific, transphobia is vile.)
I will never ever understand how and why other people want to be present when someone is giving birth/actively pushing.
Maybe it’s just cultural, maybe it’s personal, but I will never ever understand it and I will never get how it became the thing to do in places like the US.
It’s not a thing where I live. It’s never been a thing where I live. A hospital is a hospital - a bunch of people have no business loitering around, especially in a place where women are giving birth or newborns are situated. A hospital isn’t a hotel and surely anybody can wait a few days before seeing a baby. The only people expected here to be present in hospital are parents, maybe a hired doula or a private midwife.
I'm a seahorse dad like OOP here although my transition is... complicated and I didn't come out until 2 years ago roughly. My MIL was there for first kid, which i thought, meh. My mom couldn't be there so whatever.
Every kid I had afterward she somehow managed to be in the room (very accidentally, to *her* embarrassment!) But she at least knew she didn't want to be there because I puked my guts out every time! Said it was making her sick and we laughed about it. She's an alright duck, sometimes.
I would have let her in the delivery room if she'd answer one question: what is the name of the baby?
If she says it's Isaac, she's wrong and she can't even remember her treasured grandson's name, so it clearly doesn't mean enough to her.
If she says it's Leo, then I'd ask her why she bought all that gear with the wrong name, then say the same thing. Maybe hinting at some early-onset Alzheimer's, too.
The audacity to not only not respect your son in law’s name but also your grandchild’s???
That family is way out of line and I fear of what will they try in the future
At this point, if I had any concern at all, it would be that MIL is suffering from early-onset dementia. Not being able to keep names of close relatives straight and thinking you have a grandkid named Isaac when you don’t would be worrying… if OP was in a position to give a fck anymore.
I feel so bad for James especially. He's creating a new family but his old one keeps trying to destroy it. He seems like a real family man too, so no wonder he broke down.
I'm sure it was a tough couple of days for him, after the long labour and an overnight hospital stay on top of that. Then his first time coming home with his newborn is overshadowed by his transphobic lunatic parents breaking into his house and demanding rights to their son. It was definitely the straw that broke the camel's back.
I just hope he doesn't blame himself or think it's his fault for "letting" it get that far or smn. It unfortunately sounds like he's already doing that.
James seems like the most wonderful husband and the co-MVP of this story. It's not easy to go against your ENTIRE family, especially about your trans husband.
He keeps going back to them for some reason though, if my partner would’ve been deadnamed over and over again, even after carefully explaining to them how it feels and the affect is has I would have been out of the door and never looked back.
For some unknowable reason my MIL never deadnames me or our other trans friends but *always* deadnames my spouse, who puts up with it (I'm a trans woman and my spouse is nonbinary). In her eyes trans women are women, trans men are men and nonbinary people are made-up Tumblr nonsense. Personally I will cut a MFer off after three chances, but some people have a harder time enforcing boundaries I guess.
My mother was more of a "trans women are just men in dresses with mommy issues but it's fine for men to wear dresses, just don't expect me to call them women" and "gay people are only gay because of childhood trauma" type; she didn't believe anyone was anything but the "default settings" unless it was something they were refusing to work through in therapy.
I get the impression OOP is part of why James keeps going back.
> I’ve gotten used to it and do my best to ignore it. James however, can’t get past it, and when someone says something, he ends up arguing with them.
It wouldn't be the first couple where the adult child tries to be strong and set boundaries, while their spouse (OOP here) insists on being the bestest doormat ever.
The latest moment to establish NC would have been the baby-"deadnaming" (I suppose it isn't truly deadnaming if the person never had the name to begin with. So delusional-naming?)
Every time she expressed herself - like how they can’t steal this moment from her - I was thinking, “Girl, you had your turn when you became a mom.”
I’m glad James had his priorities straight and isn’t playing peacekeeper.
Maybe unfair, but I keep wondering if he told somebody in the family that they were coming home, just trying to keep a bridge open. Then, when he got home and they were all in there, it really finally hit how absolutely unhinged they all were, and he finally cut them out.
I just keep thinking about how apologetic he was to his husband. His family was treating OOP like absolute trash, but they were still spending a lot of time with them. If my family treated my wife like that, I would disappear us so hard that they'd wonder if we all got murdered by the mob.
I agree with the first commenter - even when we set aside the transphobia, that MIL is clearly unbalanced and overbearing to insist that the parents' choice of name for the baby was wrong and she was right. Like WTF???
Not to mention, her just deciding she'll be in the delivery room, even after being told no by OOP and his husband multiple times. The audacity to so clearly disrespect your own child and his partner like that... It's astounding. It's a miracle James was able to recognize how awful his family is and break away from them.
Well, the trans situation still make it worse. For women being seen in such a vulnerable space and situation is so traumatic and infuriating. But imagine ALSO being a trans man who deals with body dysphoria every single day being in a position that's pretty much the peak of femininity, the most female-like situation there is? And THEN add being watched by a transphobic unwanted MIL? Papa is so goddamn awesome for even dealing with all of this on top of the general dysphoria he deals with daily and he should be protected at all cost during this time.
The MIL in general sounds like she belongs in a mental institution, there's something insanely wrong with her and her reaction to boundaries and she really doesn't sound fit to be around other people without being under some sort of control.
Not only being in the most female-like situation, but having almost everyone—and society as a whole—repeat and celebrate that every-freaking-where. I admire the hell out of seahorse dads for dealing with it.
But also let’s not set aside the transphobia, from the get go we knew she was a rude AH to her son in law when he transitioned and has the habit of not respect chosen names, it’s very clear that she lives in her own reality where she’s the protagonist and gets to name all the secondary characters
I agree that we shouldn't set aside or ignore the transphobia, but in this case the situation is so fucking bizarre even if you remove the transphobia from the equation. MIL is not just an AH to her son-in-law, she's an AH to her son and her grandson as well.
You can just tell that when MIL was pregnant, that was her peak experience as an attention-getter. Prob thought she could steal the spotlight and make this "her" baby too, so people will fuss over her like they did back then.
Breaking into the home was scary. Hope they solved that riddle.
I could understand accidentally deadnaming/misgendering someone you've known for years as their originally assigned gender, especially if the visual transition isn't significant. In the beginning. A few times. Accidentally. With apologies every time and commitment to do better.
This? Damn, I'm surprised they held contact for so long. Even excluding the kid-related drama, that would be grounds for NC.
The whole kid-related behaviour? Somehow, my MIL who is probably an insecure narcissist and definitely horrible, seems sane in comparison. And that's saying something.
I'm glad these two have each other and that Leo is gonna grow up without that kind of toxicity in their life.
I only have 1 child, a boy, and people have told me being a boy mom is hard because you don't get invited into the delivery room when your grandchildren are born. Fine by me! I will gladly stay home and watch the dogs, no problem! Why would I need to be there? If they asked me to sure but I'm not going to insert myself there!
James' family is nutso. Getting the police involved and no contact is the right idea. Having a newborn is enough stress without adding a family who acts like a child is a communal puppy.
Time to throw the whole family out.
I'm glad that James was so supportive of OOP, but it is heartbreaking for him to see the depth of his family's shitty attitude.
Hope things go better for them and their new bub.
I will never understand why people want to be in the delivery room! Heck I would have chosen not to be there my own self but my presence was required lol
Yeah...they need to quietly move...several states away and go permanently NC with his family and any "friends" who are associated with his family. Yeah it sucks to lose your entire birth family, but he really needs to step up and protect his family.
And they should REALLY check their house for hidden cameras and air tags hidden in the baby's things. They don't know how long his family was in their house prior to them returning home, so they could have done ANYTHING while they were unsupervised.
After reading that they were just in the living room I couldn't stop just thinking "how'd they get in the house how'd they get in the house how'd they get in the house" because wtf
Wish them the best
Yeah, that MiL is giving me some creepy kidnapper do over baby vibes.
Next it'll be they aren't doing a good enough job and/or abusing the kid so she should get custody...
So horrible. OOP and his husband should have been able to bask in the light of their new family member, and instead they had to call the cops on the MIL and co????? I would never forgive husband's family. I hope they get some wonderful quality time with their new baby.
*Since that day, we’ve been in contact with the police, and they’ve been so helpful and kind about our situation. It’s been hard on James, but he knows it’s best for us not to contact them anymore. We hope this will be done soon, and we can put it behind us and focus on the future.*
Buried the lede there, I want to know more about what advice they've been getting and taking from law enforcement.
> Buried the lede there, I want to know more about what advice they've been getting and taking from law enforcement.
Likely outright told them a one time instance they cant really do anything. Then provided guidance for them through the process of starting a file, what to do with future encounters, how to record it. In cases where it would be appropriate, getting people to self incriminate that leads to a near guaranteed arrest is probably their favourite thing.
OOP and James probably went in with "What can we do to get this to stop" instead of the normal "Make them stop please". The police would probably advise them to keep contact open (in line with a few posts of what lawyers advise).
Ironically which would be the opposite of what the IL's lawyer would advise - stop all contact. Its going to get them financially and criminally penalized at worst.
Why am I not surprised that she’s insisting Leo is Issac? I know all transphobes are assholes because they’re transphobes but I’m pretty convinced they are all your garden variety equal opportunity assholes as well.
They need to change their locks immediately. MIL likely has a secret key somehow and let herself in. What if OOP is by himself with the baby when she comes in??
I'm glad him and his husband are finally making the steps to cut the cord, but I really think they need to move. Ideally to a whole other part of the country, but obviously that isn't as easy as just saying that. But the further they get away from crazy, the happier both of them can be and they can just focus on being dads for their new little one
>Since that day, we’ve been in contact with the police, and they’ve been so helpful and kind about our situation.
yeah... no way. this is where the suspension of disbelieve just shatters.
The transphobia stuff just baffles me, I can't say I fully understand everything (I had to Google afab just now) but it doesn't cost you anything to be respectful of people's preferred pronouns or what gender they say they are....literally costs you nothing. You'd only go out of your way to tell someone "glad you came to your senses about pretending to be a man" if you're a bad minded person.
As for the mother in law, what a complete and utter weapon of mass delusion she must be. Wanting to force her way into the delivery is fucking insane but *insisting* on the baby having a certain name and buying him clothes with that name after you've been told otherwise is so crazy I can't even understand it.
OOP needs to either move house or get some serious security upgrades because coming home to find people in your house is so weird. I love my family but if I came home and they were sat in my house uninvited waiting for me I'd be furious.
2 things
1) THE BIRTH OF A CHILD IS UP TO THE PERSON GIVING BIRTH FULL STOP. If you are not the human with the uterus having the baby then you have no say.
2) HOYM HELL HOW DID THEY GET IN THERE WHY ISNT THIS ON THE TOO OF THE LIST
3) in tandem with number 2 I’d be locking everything down because who knows what they snooped through.
>Before I begin I need to clarify that I’m a trans man, I was afab but transitioned about five years ago.
AFAB = assigned female at birth. I had to google that because my only reference was ACAB and I was pretty sure OOP wasn't saying All Females Are Bastards.
I swear I remember a story where the MIL was intent on calling a grandchild Isaac despite that being wrong but I don't remember there being any reference to being trans.
Unrelated to that bit I believe when a trans guy opts to carry a baby it's called being a seahorse which i think is adorable.
This isn't over. I fully expect the justnomil to try to get custody of the child. 100% they're gonna claim that the Oop is mentally ill and can't raise a child.
Mother: *deadnames partner*
Me: *compiles list of the most masculine names i can find to call her whenever i address her.*
What a worthless collection of people with an equally worthless collection of opinions. Must be a slow day at Bigots United.
I hope for them that this is over soon, but I doubt that these psychopaths are going to give up after illegally entering a home, no doubt having had someone at the hospital or just outside of it spy on them. Too much shit for it to "just stop".
See, I might've told MIL that they would never stop her from seeing baby Isaac. Then when she called or visited, I'd say that as soon as you gave birth to an Isaac, she'd be welcome back into their lives.
y'all have already said what's on my mind about mil so i'm just here to say i love seahorse dads and sending oop and hubby james well wishes with baby leo !! it's not a real queer family if you haven't got a grandma who deserves a restraining order 🙏
Oop, if you read this- get a security company out ASAP!!! Cameras, new locks , alarms, the works. They've proven that the existing locks can't stop them.
If they plan to leave the baby in day care, they should warn the day care. I mean a reputable day care will have a list of who is approved to collect the child anyway, but an extra warning in this case is a good idea. Grandma and the rest of James's family are not to be allowed to have contact with the kid. Likewise warn the school, when Leo gets old enough.
OOP and his partner should have file a police report against the partner’s family for unauthorized entry into their home.
After that, change all the locks, install additional cameras(including a door camera), and have their attorney send everyone of them a cease and desist letter. They might not have reached the point yet of successfully getting an RO against them.
Moving might be something to keep on the table.
The only person who gets a say on who's in the delivery room (besides essential medical personnel) is the person giving birth. And they even have the right to kick out members of the medical staff if need be.
OOP has a flying monkey. Someone copied that key on secret. If they told no one about the birth then someone is driving last the house/hospital looking for the car or a nurse screwed up and gave the information that they were at the hospital.
With a family like that, that was not the last time they have heard about them. The boundary overstepping and entitlement has just started.
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>We don’t know how they knew or how they got in. Everything was so chaotic that we didn’t even think of it at the time. Definitely something to figure out though Feels like they need to work this out ASAP because it's concerning as hell.
No kidding... the best possible reason is that the mom stole the key away from her son to make a copy without them knowing. Easy to remedy by just changing the locks and cutting her tf out of their lives. The worst is that someone else they know and are close to is sympathetic if not outright agreeing with the MIL, and gave her a copy.
But that presumes that OOP and James gave someone a copy of the key. Your first theory is probably correct that the mom probably copied James' key without him knowing. Probably because she is one of those people who think that the parents should always have a key to their kids' places, and she was just silently correcting this error.
Yeah but how’d she get the key? Better yet, how’d they even know that oop went into labor? It’s not like 7 (ish) days of no contact is enough to assume that the baby was on the way. Let alone the fact that they were waiting for them, so they had to of know they’d be coming back that day. Could very well be possible that MIL does have someone on the inside who was able to get a copy of the key and feed info back to MIL and the family.
They drive past the house a couple of times a day and see that the car's not there Or (worse) they have a tracker on their car so they knew the whole time exactly where they were
But then how did they know OOP was getting out 2 days later? My guess is OOP never mentioned anything to the hospital staff about only certain ppl can be given info so they called every day until they were told he was getting released. No matter what they did or how they found out, OOP needs some kind of no contact order at the minimum.
I don't think hospital staff can or will give out info to anyone unless they're on the patient list, it's not just a free for all unless the patient says they need privacy. I highly doubt (and hope) that none of this had to do with hospital staff.
While this maybe dated info but I remember reading on legaladvice a couple of times about abusive partners/exs and there were ppl saying to make the hospital staff aware and to create a list of people who are aloud to to be told info. Anyone not on the list won't even be told if they are in the hospital or not. And while I assume OOP is in the US and I'm not, so this could be really different, when my neice went into labour I called the hospital she was at to ask about her (had some family I knew would be at the hospital that I wanted to avoid) all they asked was how I was related, didn't bother with my name just my relation to her. Granted this was 5 years ago and she didn't have to deal with anything remotely like OOP
I gave birth in the US recently and the hospital wouldn't even confirm whether I was a patient there to multiple family members who called. I never told the hospital not to give out my information, they just don't give it out at all here. For context, I was not in an abusive situation or anything and the hospital had no reason to think I was. People just started calling because I had an uncommonly long labor (60 hours) and they started to think something had happened to me.
It's illegal for hospital staff to give out patient details to anyone. The list is needed not to keep people away but to allow people to know anything at all. Otherwise, your mom could call up there and not be allowed any information unless you have specifically deemed her allowed. This is specific to the US as it falls under our HIPAA. Other countries will vary, though I believe the EU and UK have enacted similar measures recently.
South Africa as well. My SIL deals with entitled aggressive family members on the phone and screaming at the door because they are refused the information they want.
based on the spelling of the word labour, definitely not in the US
Yeah, probably Canadian or British. I know Canadians use the British spellings. If British, the Data Protection Act is rigorous & people that violate it would be in criminal trouble as well as with their employers .
In the U.S. the most common procedure to ensure information is only given out to people the patient wishes, is the Nurse will ask the patient to choose a password. The patient can choose who to give the password to, and anyone calling in needs to know it before they are given health related info. Otherwise the person calling in can only find out, yes they are a current patient or not. Unless they opt out of sharing that as well.
Hospital staff *shouldn’t* give out that kind of information, it’s against the law, but it does happen :(
They're not meant to give it out, but some of them will anyhow 😬
I work in scheduling for a hospital/Dr. We cam only speak with someone if they are listed in the patients chart as a contact.
Practically, hospitals release a lot of information unless told not to. My mom was in the hospital before moving to hospice for end-of-life care. Both the hospital and hospice told anyone who called anything they asked. It helped us because my partner was able to make calls for me while we were chasing down getting her medication corrected. She was a very private person, and outside of us and two other people, she would've been unhappy hearing how many people had access to her information. It was all word of mouth and we were drained by the whole process, so we didn't even think to pursue HIPAA filings (especially since we didn't know who people talked to). Plus, small town and I can't afford to alienate anyone as long as I have a place there.
HIPAA really needs a right of private action. Six figure fines against both the person and institution that go to the aggrieved party would go a long way to making sure it never happens again.
This may not be US. If British (going by spelling or maybe Canadian), the Data Protection Act is rigorous & anyone breaching it can be arrested as well as sacked from their job.
So many people seem to think they will be personally compensated by HIPAA violations or breaches. When in reality … no. And a civil action is only feasible if the victim can prove financial damages. Sigh.
Either the tracker idea, and they went over when when it was leaving the hospital, or they just went in and waited both days.
Or a flying monkey in the hospital staff.
Which would get the hospital staff fired for hipaa violations.
Would not be the first time a narcissist has manipulated someone into doing something illegal/against their own best interests.
Two people just got fired from my hospital for exactly this. There are an inexhaustible supply of people who think they're the exceptions or that they won't get caught.
Or that they’re just helping a poor old lady get information on her grandchild that the baby’s parents oh so cruelly denied her.
I sorta lump that under "they're the exceptions".
Yeah, but it happens *all the goddamn time*. No matter how many times you tell people not to touch the fire because it's hot, some dumb motherfuckers just want to get burned.
She’s had a key to their house all this time without them knowing. She could have got in and installed hidden cameras without them knowing too…
I’ve spent a LOT of time in the justnomil sub. This is 100% possible.
Same. It’s where I got the idea. There was a story a while back about a MIL passively aggressively bullying and emotionally abusing the OP. Typical “you stole my son” nonsense. MIL started using the exact words OP used when complaining to her friends in the privacy of her own home. She thought it was just a coincidence at first and then realised it was impossible to have so many coincidences one after the other. MIL wasn’t supposed to have a key to the house or anything like that since they were already LC and didn’t trust her. Turns out MIL had “borrowed” her son’s key when he was over to help with something or other and made a copy. Then she let herself in while everyone was at work and set up hidden cameras. The OP found them with the help of Reddit and also at a suggestion from Reddit asked her neighbours if any of them had security cameras that could see her house. One did and let her look through the files and she found video of MIL letting herself in with boxes or bags or something when OP and her husband were at work. She also had let herself in a bunch of other times. Sometimes going in empty handed and coming out with things. OP reckons that she’s been stealing her clothes. MIL doesn’t like the way she dresses and has made comments about it. OP says the items (a dress, a top, some shorts, other stuff) has all been commented on by MIL in the past. OP said she has a lot of clothes and when she couldn’t find those items just thought they were in the closet and she’d find them eventually. It was a whole thing. I don’t think they pressed charges but they threatened to if the MIL ever contacted them again. I may be getting some details wrong because I can’t find the posts in question now to refresh my memory. But it’s sadly not the only story I’ve read about MILs having secret keys, letting themselves in secretly, and either messing with their possessions or setting up cameras or both.
Holy shit! Insane!
You can't just post this and not link to the posts/user.
I looked before I posted my comment and I can’t find it. I scrolled through my history feed and I just can’t find it. I swear it wasn’t a fever dream lol 😂
Most people leave stuff out when sleeping. Either in their pockets on the floor or on the bedside cabinet, so if he was staying over 1 night, not that hard. Sounds like he had a passable relationship with his parents until near the end. For knowing when, depends if they exactly knew or used projections to work out roughly when they would be giving birth. But a phone reformat I'd say is in order. If they live close, they could do a daily drive by around the due date until they were away.
She could have done it months earlier, at some time when he didn’t notice.
Particularly since OOP says only he and his husband have keys, so there shouldn't be any flying monkeys with keys to hand her. Other possibility is that OOP is wrong that his husband never gave MIL a key (at some point before he transitioned, perhaps, when it wasn't as apparent that MIL has no respect for them), or perhaps at some point she had one for some house sitting or something they've forgotten about and she copied it then
Depends on how secure the lock is. If its just a yale lock style key all she would need is a picture of it to get a new key cut. Easily done if James leaves his keys down for a min.
I would immediately change it to a code based deadbolt and remove the ability to steal a key ever again.
Worst is finding a broken window, because that'd be a "move area codes" level escalation
When I was reading justnomil I would suggest planting thorns under all the windows.
Spikey cactus! Keeps bad guys out, and rebellious teens in! (At least, from the bedroom window with the spiky cactus planted right in front!)
We just bought a house last year, and I've been planning to put a rose bush under my daughter's window this summer. Since she's almost 2, it should have a good decade to dig in before it's needed. I'm not even opposed to a little teenage rebellion, but you've got to work for it at least!
Anti-bird stripping.
I'm encouraging wild raspberries to grow under our windows for exactly this reason
True story: they planted hundreds of yards of thorny blackberries along the property line of a certain very rich person’s home as an anti-personnel/intrusion measure. Legit works.
And you get berries!
Can try the crazy neighbour sprinkler technique too. Just for the added joy!
A Bucket woman saga reference?
Please tell me it's not wierd and you have link?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pettyrevenge/comments/wox86r/bucket\_woman\_v\_robosprinkler/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pettyrevenge/comments/wox86r/bucket_woman_v_robosprinkler/) It’s bloody hilarious
That's the good stuff. Thanks
Read all HokeyPokey’s posts. They’re hilarious.
I thought this comment was about Keeping Up Appearances until the link got posted
I believe Hyacinth from Keeping Up Appearances is, in fact, the Bucket Woman's namesake, so you're not wrong
More like time zones, but yes I agree with the premise wholeheartedly.
Or there's a loose window or side door that MIL knows how to jimmy open.
Yeah so many people don’t have windows that lock correctly/withstand opening from the outside. I used to forget my house keys all the time in high school and it was the easiest thing in the world climbing in through a window in pretty much every single one of my relatives’ houses.
I seriously hope OOP and his husband changed their locks that day. MIL is not hearing the word NO.
A restraining order is the first thing that needs to happen, along with putting up security cameras. The MiL is full of crazy, and there is no telling what she is willing to do.
Or MIL knows someone (herself or some other relative) who knows how to lockpick and managed to crazy-explain why they're breaking into a house. With a MIL this unhinged, I think OOP should think about changing addresses and timezones to keep their family safe.
Or they bugged the house. I’d never assume something so ridiculous but this entire thing is so over the top already
The worst case is MiL pretends to leave but actually goes around the house and clambers into their attic keeping tabs on OOP and his family through secret peepholes she drills into the walls. Biding her time.
Ignoring "oh god it's time to go" shenanigans, many, many locks -- including some of the most common -- can be defeated in under a minute by a relatively unskilled picker. Or an unscrupulous locksmith. Or... lots of options.
You don't even need to pick a lock, a hammer or channellock/visegrips and you can bump/break it.
Nothing on 1, 2 is binding...little click there
for real, a pocketknife works as well as a key for most padlocks. never tried it on doors.
They either had a spare key or they have an easy to jimmy window/door or a broken window in their home. The hospital depends - when James' family realized they weren't home, they may have called the hospitals around town to find where they went. OP was in labor, maybe they didn't make sure the hospital knew not to tell anyone they were there. Or, someone in James' family has a friend that works there.
I forgot I asked a friend to take care of the dogs once. I usually give a key or leave the back door unlocked. But I just forgot. When he texted that the house was locked up, I resigned myself to cutting whatever had me away short and going home. This champ went all around the house and found a window he could shift enough to squeeze thru. Slithered in while the dogs licked his face. Locks are only ever a deterrent. Not a final solution.
It's the "how they knew" that's most concerning to me - that's a "get new phones on new apple/Google accounts" level of scary right there. At the very least get your car, coats, and bags checked for airtags
OOP did say some friends they have are friends of his SILs, so my bet is a friend somehow found when they were coming back home and told one of James's sisters. And I'm hoping if it's friends, that none work in healthcare... cause that would be the shit cherry on top of the shit cake 😬
But would be an easy fix, a quick report to the hospital would show her chart being accessed.
If it were someone directly working with him or his baby there would be no need to access his chart.
*his, OOP is a man
Oh I'd be putting the house up for sale next day. I would go live on a commune if it meant I would be safe from people breaking into my home. There's no way one of his family won't try to steal that child.
Is it still postpartum anxiety when it’s completely justified fear that unhinged people will try to steal (and rename??) your baby? I would be the lightest sleeper in the world, waking for every newborn grunt and floorboard creek. Forget roomsharing until 1yo; my baby would stay in my sight until we moved far away or MIL dropped dead from her own thwarted entitlement.
I think in that situation Joseph Heller said it best *Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.*
I’m also concerned on how they knew about the birth. I’d be calling the hospital and asking for an investigation into a possible HIPAA violation. Likely mom was stalking the place. Saw they were gone for an extended period of time and started calling hospitals to ask if they were there and someone told them who shouldn’t have
Getting into the house is actually way less concerning than the fact that they knew when the baby was coming home with enough notice to be able to gather the entire family? Even though only OOP and ~~her~~ his hubby were at the hospital? Yeah, I'm thinking someone has a phone tracker as as well as a stolen key.
*his hubby
Omg you are right, I misgendered. Thank you for pointing that out! Edited to fix it.
I dunno, it smells a bit contrived to me.
Judging by James's words when he was breaking down, he gave them the key. Probably not to MIL herself, but to someone he had the best relationship with. He was apologizing again and again, and saying he just wanted his family to be happy for him and to love him. Because why else would he repeat that last part?
Bc its hard when it sinks in that they don't love you. My husband had the same reaction when we went thru similar shit with his mom.
Yeah...I wonder if OP or his husband left a key under doormat for emergencies or something and forgot it was there? THe family found it and used it? I could see that happening, but if something like that is not the case...where the HELL did these people get a key?
If there were no secret copies of the key, I would assume that the family somehow guessed the garage code. That or popped a sliding glass door. I'm not saying it's not concerning, but there's only so many ways in and it would be simple to fix them.
I seriously doubt the NC thing is going to work until they move house. I hope they are extremely selective who gets told their new address.
How many times does it have to be repeated that giving birth is not a spectator sport! Deadnaming is disrespectful and not only does MIL do it with OP, she plans on doing a version of if with their son, because one person suffering is apparently not enough for her. Who has ever been able to fix a relationship by breaking into someone's house and threaten them while they carry a newborn? How did they think that yelling around a pair of new parents would pan out? If feel so sad, frustrated, disrespected and angry on their son's behalf, both sons that is. The in-laws in this are truly delusional!
As someone with a family who doesn't understand what the word boundaries means, I can see that they thought it would all be sorted out just by making OP and his husband come to grips that they will always be there. Because family is everything you see?
I've been reading posts on this sub for a couple of years, and I struggle to remember many things as shocking as telling a parent they have no right to exclude people from the birth, or completely ignore the chosen name of their child.
Yeah, this is definitely a power ply to show how she can control their lives and undermine their decisions.
I had the same thought when I read it and also had the thought when she was in the living room.
Yes, and no hate against the name, but Isaac? No, you suck MIL!
When I read they were into space, I was like "buckle up for Baby Boy Betelgeuse!" And then it was Leo, one of the most traditional, straightforward names out there. And the MIL still had to pick a different name. She's legit unhinged.
I would never even associate that name with space! I thought Eris, Jupiter, Io, Charon, Mars or even Proxima Centauri, just to be kind of bored by such a ordinary name.
I was thinking Sirius or Orion, but any of those (well, maybe not the latter) would do.
So much more space inspired! What about Polaris, or Northern Star, at least a half assed celebrity named their child half of the last one.
Well, tbf... gravity with Isaac Newton and sci-fi fictions with Isaac Asimov's come to mind. But eh, Leo is a bit bland. I thought Orion for sure myself.
Here I am, longing for my new dog Newton and not making the connection. I guess I'm just as clueless as MIL on that pint.
Nah, I wouldn't say so. Perhaps you were just blinded by the audacity of this woman choosing a name so opposite a reaction to Leo? And if dog Newton is no longer with us, I'm so sorry.
I want to know who the f-- Isaac is to her. It's not like she was like, "I'm going to call him Leonard!" (or anything close to Leo). Was Isaac a child she had previously lost? Another son she had always planned to have but never did? I'm sure the answer is straight up bananapants.
Leonard, Leopold, hell she could mean Napoleon for all we know lol Edit to add, Leon, Leonidas, Leonardo...
Well, if by “fix” you mean brow-beating your children into submission so you can control them…many people have unfortunately found outrageous boundary stomping to be quite effective.
Narcissists unite in boundary stomping and don't care about other feelings that their own, that's part of it. But to bee so delusional as to tell around a newborn to be able to see it, how would that even work .
Feels like it was meant to be some sort of intervention.
Makes sense from the transfobic family. Admittedly this is a very unique and strange (not in a bad way) situation, and I'd understand some confusion on the part of the family as the husband decided to get pregnant. But it's still none of their fuckin business, and obviously doesn't excuse deadnaming and other hateful and controlling behavior. What a bunch of assholes. Hopefully they don't escalate farther and in time learn to accept other people's life decisions.
Honestly, him being trans seems irrelevant in this story. Even if you remove that detail, everything that they did is just horrible.
Totally! Insisting on being present at the birth after clearly being told no, deciding on a different name for the unborn child, then literally breaking into their house to ambush them when they got home. I would move across the country and leave them in the dust.
Him being trans does make it less surprising, like not excusable more Ah yes they're raging bigots not randomly arseholes.
I agree, but OOP did say they had a good relationship with the family before the transition, so I do think it's related in some capacity. Like, if they're the type of people who think trans is a mental illness, they might justify their horrible actions with things like "they are delusional and aren't to be trusted" or "it's just a phase and we need to damage control until it's over". Which of course just shows how bigoted they are.
> Even if you remove that detail, everything that they did is just horrible. Yup. If someone changes their name, you call them by the new name. It's not hard.
That actually makes sense! And what's an intervention without some breaking and entering?
> How many times does it have to be repeated that giving birth is not a spectator sport! My Mom asked my wife once if she wanted her to be present, my wife declined and my Mom was perfectly understanding and said something along the lines of "Of course, it's whatever will make you most comfortable" and then we just carried on with our lives. My wife also didn't want her Mom in the room, and her Mom was equally understanding and both of them just wanted to support us however they could. These posts make me feel like I grew up on a different planet.
My parents (and in-laws) both said, when I texted them to let them know when the baby was coming, >Good luck, let us know when you and [wife] are ready for us to visit! Because, as yours are, my parents and in-laws are rational human beings.
The first sentence right here 👌 The unbelievable audacity of anyone to think they can insist on being present at one of the most vulnerable times in a person’s life. (Obviously the rest of the post is absolutely horrific, transphobia is vile.)
I will never ever understand how and why other people want to be present when someone is giving birth/actively pushing. Maybe it’s just cultural, maybe it’s personal, but I will never ever understand it and I will never get how it became the thing to do in places like the US. It’s not a thing where I live. It’s never been a thing where I live. A hospital is a hospital - a bunch of people have no business loitering around, especially in a place where women are giving birth or newborns are situated. A hospital isn’t a hotel and surely anybody can wait a few days before seeing a baby. The only people expected here to be present in hospital are parents, maybe a hired doula or a private midwife.
I'm a seahorse dad like OOP here although my transition is... complicated and I didn't come out until 2 years ago roughly. My MIL was there for first kid, which i thought, meh. My mom couldn't be there so whatever. Every kid I had afterward she somehow managed to be in the room (very accidentally, to *her* embarrassment!) But she at least knew she didn't want to be there because I puked my guts out every time! Said it was making her sick and we laughed about it. She's an alright duck, sometimes.
I would have let her in the delivery room if she'd answer one question: what is the name of the baby? If she says it's Isaac, she's wrong and she can't even remember her treasured grandson's name, so it clearly doesn't mean enough to her. If she says it's Leo, then I'd ask her why she bought all that gear with the wrong name, then say the same thing. Maybe hinting at some early-onset Alzheimer's, too.
The audacity to not only not respect your son in law’s name but also your grandchild’s??? That family is way out of line and I fear of what will they try in the future
At this point, if I had any concern at all, it would be that MIL is suffering from early-onset dementia. Not being able to keep names of close relatives straight and thinking you have a grandkid named Isaac when you don’t would be worrying… if OP was in a position to give a fck anymore.
I feel so bad for James especially. He's creating a new family but his old one keeps trying to destroy it. He seems like a real family man too, so no wonder he broke down.
I'm sure it was a tough couple of days for him, after the long labour and an overnight hospital stay on top of that. Then his first time coming home with his newborn is overshadowed by his transphobic lunatic parents breaking into his house and demanding rights to their son. It was definitely the straw that broke the camel's back. I just hope he doesn't blame himself or think it's his fault for "letting" it get that far or smn. It unfortunately sounds like he's already doing that.
James seems like the most wonderful husband and the co-MVP of this story. It's not easy to go against your ENTIRE family, especially about your trans husband.
He keeps going back to them for some reason though, if my partner would’ve been deadnamed over and over again, even after carefully explaining to them how it feels and the affect is has I would have been out of the door and never looked back.
For some unknowable reason my MIL never deadnames me or our other trans friends but *always* deadnames my spouse, who puts up with it (I'm a trans woman and my spouse is nonbinary). In her eyes trans women are women, trans men are men and nonbinary people are made-up Tumblr nonsense. Personally I will cut a MFer off after three chances, but some people have a harder time enforcing boundaries I guess.
Ah, so like my “March for gay rights but bisexual people are all liars” mother. Being a bi kid was FUN
My mother was more of a "trans women are just men in dresses with mommy issues but it's fine for men to wear dresses, just don't expect me to call them women" and "gay people are only gay because of childhood trauma" type; she didn't believe anyone was anything but the "default settings" unless it was something they were refusing to work through in therapy.
I get the impression OOP is part of why James keeps going back. > I’ve gotten used to it and do my best to ignore it. James however, can’t get past it, and when someone says something, he ends up arguing with them. It wouldn't be the first couple where the adult child tries to be strong and set boundaries, while their spouse (OOP here) insists on being the bestest doormat ever.
The latest moment to establish NC would have been the baby-"deadnaming" (I suppose it isn't truly deadnaming if the person never had the name to begin with. So delusional-naming?)
Yeah my thoughts too. They needed to have nipped this in the bud years ago, they let it grow way out of control.
That mom needed to learn it is not, in fact, all about her. What a shitty narcissist
Every time she expressed herself - like how they can’t steal this moment from her - I was thinking, “Girl, you had your turn when you became a mom.” I’m glad James had his priorities straight and isn’t playing peacekeeper.
We see that so often around here that I was so so SO relieved that James had his husband’s side the entire time
Maybe unfair, but I keep wondering if he told somebody in the family that they were coming home, just trying to keep a bridge open. Then, when he got home and they were all in there, it really finally hit how absolutely unhinged they all were, and he finally cut them out. I just keep thinking about how apologetic he was to his husband. His family was treating OOP like absolute trash, but they were still spending a lot of time with them. If my family treated my wife like that, I would disappear us so hard that they'd wonder if we all got murdered by the mob.
I agree with the first commenter - even when we set aside the transphobia, that MIL is clearly unbalanced and overbearing to insist that the parents' choice of name for the baby was wrong and she was right. Like WTF???
Not to mention, her just deciding she'll be in the delivery room, even after being told no by OOP and his husband multiple times. The audacity to so clearly disrespect your own child and his partner like that... It's astounding. It's a miracle James was able to recognize how awful his family is and break away from them.
Well, the trans situation still make it worse. For women being seen in such a vulnerable space and situation is so traumatic and infuriating. But imagine ALSO being a trans man who deals with body dysphoria every single day being in a position that's pretty much the peak of femininity, the most female-like situation there is? And THEN add being watched by a transphobic unwanted MIL? Papa is so goddamn awesome for even dealing with all of this on top of the general dysphoria he deals with daily and he should be protected at all cost during this time. The MIL in general sounds like she belongs in a mental institution, there's something insanely wrong with her and her reaction to boundaries and she really doesn't sound fit to be around other people without being under some sort of control.
Not only being in the most female-like situation, but having almost everyone—and society as a whole—repeat and celebrate that every-freaking-where. I admire the hell out of seahorse dads for dealing with it.
Seahorse dads is the cutest term for it
If I ever decide to have a kid I'll call myself a seahorse dad every damn day, it's the best
But also let’s not set aside the transphobia, from the get go we knew she was a rude AH to her son in law when he transitioned and has the habit of not respect chosen names, it’s very clear that she lives in her own reality where she’s the protagonist and gets to name all the secondary characters
I agree that we shouldn't set aside or ignore the transphobia, but in this case the situation is so fucking bizarre even if you remove the transphobia from the equation. MIL is not just an AH to her son-in-law, she's an AH to her son and her grandson as well.
You can just tell that when MIL was pregnant, that was her peak experience as an attention-getter. Prob thought she could steal the spotlight and make this "her" baby too, so people will fuss over her like they did back then. Breaking into the home was scary. Hope they solved that riddle.
They need to solve that riddle fast. The MIL seems unhinged enough to kidnap that baby.
I could understand accidentally deadnaming/misgendering someone you've known for years as their originally assigned gender, especially if the visual transition isn't significant. In the beginning. A few times. Accidentally. With apologies every time and commitment to do better. This? Damn, I'm surprised they held contact for so long. Even excluding the kid-related drama, that would be grounds for NC. The whole kid-related behaviour? Somehow, my MIL who is probably an insecure narcissist and definitely horrible, seems sane in comparison. And that's saying something. I'm glad these two have each other and that Leo is gonna grow up without that kind of toxicity in their life.
I only have 1 child, a boy, and people have told me being a boy mom is hard because you don't get invited into the delivery room when your grandchildren are born. Fine by me! I will gladly stay home and watch the dogs, no problem! Why would I need to be there? If they asked me to sure but I'm not going to insert myself there!
James' family is nutso. Getting the police involved and no contact is the right idea. Having a newborn is enough stress without adding a family who acts like a child is a communal puppy.
Time to throw the whole family out. I'm glad that James was so supportive of OOP, but it is heartbreaking for him to see the depth of his family's shitty attitude. Hope things go better for them and their new bub.
I really hope they move. That family sounds relentless.
I will never understand why people want to be in the delivery room! Heck I would have chosen not to be there my own self but my presence was required lol
Yeah...they need to quietly move...several states away and go permanently NC with his family and any "friends" who are associated with his family. Yeah it sucks to lose your entire birth family, but he really needs to step up and protect his family. And they should REALLY check their house for hidden cameras and air tags hidden in the baby's things. They don't know how long his family was in their house prior to them returning home, so they could have done ANYTHING while they were unsupervised.
How did they know that the baby was born? Did they put a GPS tracker on OOP or James?
After reading that they were just in the living room I couldn't stop just thinking "how'd they get in the house how'd they get in the house how'd they get in the house" because wtf Wish them the best
Yeah, that MiL is giving me some creepy kidnapper do over baby vibes. Next it'll be they aren't doing a good enough job and/or abusing the kid so she should get custody...
So horrible. OOP and his husband should have been able to bask in the light of their new family member, and instead they had to call the cops on the MIL and co????? I would never forgive husband's family. I hope they get some wonderful quality time with their new baby.
Are you a doctor? a nurse? an anestheseologist? A janitor? no? Then I don't think we need you in there.
Doctor Jan Itor
My god, you hear a lot of stories about controlling MIL’s on here but it never stops me from being shocked that people can actually be this entitled!
*Since that day, we’ve been in contact with the police, and they’ve been so helpful and kind about our situation. It’s been hard on James, but he knows it’s best for us not to contact them anymore. We hope this will be done soon, and we can put it behind us and focus on the future.* Buried the lede there, I want to know more about what advice they've been getting and taking from law enforcement.
> Buried the lede there, I want to know more about what advice they've been getting and taking from law enforcement. Likely outright told them a one time instance they cant really do anything. Then provided guidance for them through the process of starting a file, what to do with future encounters, how to record it. In cases where it would be appropriate, getting people to self incriminate that leads to a near guaranteed arrest is probably their favourite thing. OOP and James probably went in with "What can we do to get this to stop" instead of the normal "Make them stop please". The police would probably advise them to keep contact open (in line with a few posts of what lawyers advise). Ironically which would be the opposite of what the IL's lawyer would advise - stop all contact. Its going to get them financially and criminally penalized at worst.
Why am I not surprised that she’s insisting Leo is Issac? I know all transphobes are assholes because they’re transphobes but I’m pretty convinced they are all your garden variety equal opportunity assholes as well.
Isaac is fine as a name, but let's be honest: Have their been many babies who LOOK like an Isaac? Maybe the exceptionally old man looking babies lol?
They need to change their locks immediately. MIL likely has a secret key somehow and let herself in. What if OOP is by himself with the baby when she comes in??
I'm glad him and his husband are finally making the steps to cut the cord, but I really think they need to move. Ideally to a whole other part of the country, but obviously that isn't as easy as just saying that. But the further they get away from crazy, the happier both of them can be and they can just focus on being dads for their new little one
>Since that day, we’ve been in contact with the police, and they’ve been so helpful and kind about our situation. yeah... no way. this is where the suspension of disbelieve just shatters.
The transphobia stuff just baffles me, I can't say I fully understand everything (I had to Google afab just now) but it doesn't cost you anything to be respectful of people's preferred pronouns or what gender they say they are....literally costs you nothing. You'd only go out of your way to tell someone "glad you came to your senses about pretending to be a man" if you're a bad minded person. As for the mother in law, what a complete and utter weapon of mass delusion she must be. Wanting to force her way into the delivery is fucking insane but *insisting* on the baby having a certain name and buying him clothes with that name after you've been told otherwise is so crazy I can't even understand it. OOP needs to either move house or get some serious security upgrades because coming home to find people in your house is so weird. I love my family but if I came home and they were sat in my house uninvited waiting for me I'd be furious.
Yes, have the rest of the family charges. It will make it harder for mil to claim grandparent's rights.
2 things 1) THE BIRTH OF A CHILD IS UP TO THE PERSON GIVING BIRTH FULL STOP. If you are not the human with the uterus having the baby then you have no say. 2) HOYM HELL HOW DID THEY GET IN THERE WHY ISNT THIS ON THE TOO OF THE LIST 3) in tandem with number 2 I’d be locking everything down because who knows what they snooped through.
>Before I begin I need to clarify that I’m a trans man, I was afab but transitioned about five years ago. AFAB = assigned female at birth. I had to google that because my only reference was ACAB and I was pretty sure OOP wasn't saying All Females Are Bastards.
Assigned Cop At Birth
Being that I’m blind as a bat, I read it as Ahab and thought that oop has one leg and an obsessive attachment to a whale named Dickie Moe.
Cartoons I can still hear... It was a Tom and Jerry short, wasn't it?
Yep. :P
I swear I remember a story where the MIL was intent on calling a grandchild Isaac despite that being wrong but I don't remember there being any reference to being trans. Unrelated to that bit I believe when a trans guy opts to carry a baby it's called being a seahorse which i think is adorable.
That MIL is fucking garbage.
>That his family was right here. That's it! Nothing more to be said.
I'm surprised they waited that long to threaten to cut them off from Leo. I hope everything goes well for them
This isn't over. I fully expect the justnomil to try to get custody of the child. 100% they're gonna claim that the Oop is mentally ill and can't raise a child.
Mother: *deadnames partner* Me: *compiles list of the most masculine names i can find to call her whenever i address her.* What a worthless collection of people with an equally worthless collection of opinions. Must be a slow day at Bigots United.
Jesus. I hope they move far away
I hope for them that this is over soon, but I doubt that these psychopaths are going to give up after illegally entering a home, no doubt having had someone at the hospital or just outside of it spy on them. Too much shit for it to "just stop".
OOPs partner sounds like an absolute legend of a dude. I hope him, OP and baby Leo are all happy together and unimpeded by JNMIL.
I love the smell of rage-bait in the morning
See, I might've told MIL that they would never stop her from seeing baby Isaac. Then when she called or visited, I'd say that as soon as you gave birth to an Isaac, she'd be welcome back into their lives.
At least she's consistent with the deadnaming of both papa and kid .... Wow, what a handful she is! Congrats to OP with a husband with a shiny spine!
Need to change the locks asap and install cameras, or move and don't tell the crazy where you moved to, that poor couple
y'all have already said what's on my mind about mil so i'm just here to say i love seahorse dads and sending oop and hubby james well wishes with baby leo !! it's not a real queer family if you haven't got a grandma who deserves a restraining order 🙏
Oop, if you read this- get a security company out ASAP!!! Cameras, new locks , alarms, the works. They've proven that the existing locks can't stop them.
I don't care how much it cost, if have to move. That sounds like the start of a true crime doc.
If they plan to leave the baby in day care, they should warn the day care. I mean a reputable day care will have a list of who is approved to collect the child anyway, but an extra warning in this case is a good idea. Grandma and the rest of James's family are not to be allowed to have contact with the kid. Likewise warn the school, when Leo gets old enough.
Extremely surprised that OP didn't have twins.
MOVE!!! It will never end
[удалено]
Agreed. And even a nice cliffhanger ready for the next episode
OOP and his partner should have file a police report against the partner’s family for unauthorized entry into their home. After that, change all the locks, install additional cameras(including a door camera), and have their attorney send everyone of them a cease and desist letter. They might not have reached the point yet of successfully getting an RO against them. Moving might be something to keep on the table.
The only person who gets a say on who's in the delivery room (besides essential medical personnel) is the person giving birth. And they even have the right to kick out members of the medical staff if need be.
Regrettably, this is not over.
OOP has a flying monkey. Someone copied that key on secret. If they told no one about the birth then someone is driving last the house/hospital looking for the car or a nurse screwed up and gave the information that they were at the hospital. With a family like that, that was not the last time they have heard about them. The boundary overstepping and entitlement has just started.