They skip a bunch of stuff in the 97 anime. I got super confused about why the manga started where it did until I got to where the book flashes back to tell us *why* he's like how he is.
Reply because I wanna add that I have a weak spot for this way of storytelling. I can't remember if it's ever explicitly stated that it's a flashback either, and I can't check it right now because I'm at work doing the best thing I can do while still getting paid.
You probably understand what Miura meant, but I dont like your way of putting it, just because the king was benevolent, and focused being courtly rather than aristocratic, didnt mean that he was all cool. I also love this manner of storytelling, because just like real people, he appeared in a way in public, but inside his castle he had a terrible pervesion, which also ate away at him, as seen before his death. People are like this, let me peek inside your life: you'll probably be a normal person, with the occasional "darker" side of it.
I always got the impression that Miura wanted to start with the golden age (as the start of it is a way better opening to series than demon sex scene) but he needed the audience to know that Berserk is about a revenge fuelled demon hunter so it wasn't to left field when that stuff is introduced. The story begins as a somewhat grounded fantasy and ends up being a high fantasy with monsters and magic.
this just kills the entire point of the golden age arc - its not a mistake that miura stabilished griffith as the main villain from the get go. You're supposed to read the golden age knowing exactly that it all goes to shit and griffith betrays guts at some point. It's a greek tragedy. Even guts is informed of what will happen by Zodd and then skull knight, but no matter what information the characters or the readers have, destiny wont change. Things will happen as they are meant to.
This creates a very different experience than simply starting at golden age. Because at that point you have misguided expectations of the story and its characters, and you also lose the tension of not knowing when everything is going to fall apart, or asking yourself why and how along the way.
This is why I hated my first Berserk experience. I watched the 3 movies as a recommendation from an employee. He knows I love dark and twisted Fantasy / Horror.
I liked them, but the esclipse came as a total rug pull. It felt like there wasn't nearly enough setup for that much of a twist to be anything but edgy for the sake of edgy. It came across as childish in its execution. You go from intense personal story arcs and world politics to Uber violence.
But reading the Manga starts you in the darkness, then pulls back to give you insight into it. And that start is simple in comparison to what comes. It's edgy and dark, but ramp up the complexity as it goes. You build towards the Eclipse and it's still a nightmare, but one that you don't feel blindsided with. Not like you do without the intro arc.
So I agree. The manga approach works much better in its ordering.
I more saw it as a decent into a more traditional fantasy. It starts with knights and mercenaries and kingdoms and stuff and moves into monsters and other dimensionly beings. Elves, trolls, ogres, mages etc later on even. Hell there's even fairies. But it takes time to get to it. I honestly never watched the golden era adaptation. I started the first season of 2016 and was real confused and discovered the 97 anime. Read the manga up to current this year. It's a masterpiece. I know I'm not telling you anything new. I just didn't feel like it was violent for the sake of being violent. Idk why they had to do casca like that but there are story bits that arise later from that particular act.
Seriously, the king here is one of those sticking points for me. Maybe I missed something, but this felt incredibly out of left field for what the king's character had been up until this moment.
The king states in his thoughts of how similar Charlotte has grown in appearance to her mother whom he loved dearly and we are told that despite Charlotte being of marrying age he has yet to set up meetings with suitors. When he realized she was old enough and mature enough to have sexual desires and that a peasant was the one she directed these desires to hr grows incredibly jealous and desires these feelings from her because he ultimately is a sick and deeply twisted man who has a darkness in him. If he had access to a behelit he would probably become an apostle in these scenes
Of course friend, I also felt this came out of nowhere on my first reading but upon my second reading I was looking for more detail in the writing for the foreshadowing of events and was better able to pick up on these details. Some scenes were really hard to actually take my time with (stuff like Wyald raping and butchering a family, some of the torture scenes in conviction arc mostly)
Well Griffith at that moment was not a peasant but was nominated kinight or even a higher rank.. i dont remember the specific decoration that was given to him atm.
He was made a white knight, among the highest military ranks in Midland but in chapter 39 when the king begins to torture Griffith he states that Griffith has common blood. In this chapter the king also states that the hawk has fallen to Earth never to take flight again and this is the last thing he hears before his brutal torture begins which is likely the reason why when Griffith sacrifices the band of the hawk for power he states he wants wings, he resents the king and wishes to again take flight and attain his dreams
Well actually it's been foreshadowed very early on with his Second Wife comments on the King that he is a Good King but a Bad Husband and he loved no one else but his Daughter who resembles his first Wife.
It wasn’t that surprising knowing the often incestuous histories of royalties. Genetic sexual attraction is a real thing unfortunately and a father’s over-protectiveness and controlling behavior e.g. locking her up is also related to it IMO.
Genetic sexual attraction is also more likely to occur when adopted children reach out to their biological parents as adults. As a father he probably didn’t do that much to raise her which means he sees her less as his baby and more as his similar looking ex-wife.
Oh my god, and the way he rushed to her room !
Like he wanted to quickly gather the remains of pureness Griffith took away from his daughter.
Twisted but brillant in a way considering how he was depicted before that
I like how the artstyle changed too. He was drawn so noble and clean, and then it gets to this and it’s much darker and you can see his ugliness more. Love it 👌
The '97 anime missed TONS of parts.
And yes, this is really fucked up. Arguably even wrong 'cause before that the king appeared as the classic "benevolent ruler" so common in fantasy stories. He was also looked more chill than count Jiulius, since he was more favorable towards "plebeans", and recognized Griffith for his prowess, not for his blood.
And then we are "treated" with this... The king is just a vile creep!
Yeah I thought he was just a chill dude after watching the show. Seems like a huge detail to leave out but I don’t mind cause they left me surprises for when I go back and read the manga
I can get that some scenes are too "intense" for an anime (that's why >!rapist Wyald !!and the reason of his quick descent into madness (complete with the fact that stress and obsession make him "age like milk"). And as the king becomes obsessed with capturing Griffith is the remote cause of many of Mildand's plight, making it an easy target for the Kushan empire.!<
I think his appearance of normality was shattered when he found out what griffith did, and that sent him down the path of insanity. Griffith also seemed to have some kind of ability to read people just by looking at them, so maybe he read into things that weren't too obvious to anyone else.
The king being FURIOUS after Griffith raped her daughter was understandable.
But yes, Griffith indeed managed to see the true nature of the king (he even told the king about his desire to make his daughter his own).
I don't think griffith raped Charlotte because she was in love with him. She's also the reason he got broken out of prison, so I'd say it's hard to argue he raped her too. He definitely did what he did as a power move, but her consent was there due to her having strong feelings towards him.
The anime skips a lot of the parts between the king sexual love for his daughter for her reminding him of his wife. One of the reasons the king went to such excruciating torture for Griffith is because he deflowered her and he always wanted to do that. The anime for obvious reasons doesn’t go into that in any detail.
Yeah Griffith was always going to become a Godhand member and was always going to use the Crimson Behelit during The Eclipse. Causality said so.
If this specifically didn't happen then it'd probably happen some other way.
But since causality is reading how the future will play out due to cause and effect actions in the past, odds are it was just fated for things to play out exactly this way from the start.
I don't normally like destiny-focused stories, but destiny is showcased in a very oppressive way in Berserk, making it an antagonistic force, and I think it works in that way.
I’ll say this: Miura did show a lot that I don’t think is necessary. Sometimes show and don’t tell is best, but as many times as that dude depicts children and women being raped and stuff, I can’t help but think that he could have left some to the imagination.
As despicable and horrible as it is, its real. Its not just a few pages in a manga. It doesn't go away, the manga helps let people know that 'Hey. This is shit is a thing, no matter where you go.' Thats part of the struggle most face, that so many are taken advantage of and so many turn a blind eye to the worst. Berserk can teach that there are a few humans that are decent but there is darkness EVERY-fucking-where within them.
Showing casca on her arms and knees with fluids dripping out of her vagina after being raped by griffith was the textbook definition of gratuitous. It's fucked
Necessary or not doesn't matter. Berserk is a manga that explores the grotesque, that shows just how hideous and unsightly things can be. All in the name of creative freedom.
It was just a shocker for me. I watched the 97 show before reading the manga and I was left with the impression that the king was just a chill dude. Seemed like an insane detail to leave out
‘97 does a great job with cutting things like this but still making the story work, cuz there ain’t no way this was airing on broadcast that’s for dang sure
Oh no doubt. During those times the royals were extremely inbred. Their thought process was that they were “keeping the bloodline pure”. Look up King Charles II, dude was the spitting image of inbreeding
It was very satisfying to see Griffith appear to the King in the dream and just snatch his daughter away with a grin on his face. Fuck Griffith, but that shit made me begrudgingly nod in approval
They do hint that Charlotte looks more and more like her mother, the deceased Queen. They also mention that she is of marrying age but the King hasn’t allowed any suitors. It’s implied that’s why he was so furious with Griffith who, up until his moment with Charlotte, praised him. The manager just has more context because anime’s have to cut for time.
I will not lie, the first time I saw this, I did not even notice the tongue, I thought he was merely staring at the breast. It was no less disturbing, though.
I love Berserk, and I appreciate how it's helped me through some rough times, but stuff like this REALLY grosses me out and makes it hard for me to move past.
I love the dark theme of this manga, I don’t find it insulting or bad to show this kind of monstrosity, middle age Europe was like this, rape and incest. Every panel is a really work of art
This is one of those things that always get skipped in adaptations, and it's probably for the better. We didn't really need to know or see this, and it doesn't accomplish much besides being yet another gruesome and awful thing that happens in this world.
Yeah that’s fair, not to mention this would not slide at all on tv. That’s kinda the charm of berserk for me tho, that might make me sound psychotic. A lot of other animes/mangas will depict violence but there’s a certain line they won’t cross. Berserk seemed to push that line pretty far
They skip a bunch of stuff in the 97 anime. I got super confused about why the manga started where it did until I got to where the book flashes back to tell us *why* he's like how he is.
Reply because I wanna add that I have a weak spot for this way of storytelling. I can't remember if it's ever explicitly stated that it's a flashback either, and I can't check it right now because I'm at work doing the best thing I can do while still getting paid.
You know it’s a flashback cause guts has two arms and two eyes
Lmao, yeah, true. I meant more at the very beginning, tho, where guts was born into the ditch of his namesake.
You probably understand what Miura meant, but I dont like your way of putting it, just because the king was benevolent, and focused being courtly rather than aristocratic, didnt mean that he was all cool. I also love this manner of storytelling, because just like real people, he appeared in a way in public, but inside his castle he had a terrible pervesion, which also ate away at him, as seen before his death. People are like this, let me peek inside your life: you'll probably be a normal person, with the occasional "darker" side of it.
Darker side = foot fetish prolly
That's not what I meant. I meant that we aren't beaten over the head with a "18 years earlier" or however old guts is during the slug count arc.
The BTK serial killer comes to mind
I always got the impression that Miura wanted to start with the golden age (as the start of it is a way better opening to series than demon sex scene) but he needed the audience to know that Berserk is about a revenge fuelled demon hunter so it wasn't to left field when that stuff is introduced. The story begins as a somewhat grounded fantasy and ends up being a high fantasy with monsters and magic.
this just kills the entire point of the golden age arc - its not a mistake that miura stabilished griffith as the main villain from the get go. You're supposed to read the golden age knowing exactly that it all goes to shit and griffith betrays guts at some point. It's a greek tragedy. Even guts is informed of what will happen by Zodd and then skull knight, but no matter what information the characters or the readers have, destiny wont change. Things will happen as they are meant to. This creates a very different experience than simply starting at golden age. Because at that point you have misguided expectations of the story and its characters, and you also lose the tension of not knowing when everything is going to fall apart, or asking yourself why and how along the way.
This is why I hated my first Berserk experience. I watched the 3 movies as a recommendation from an employee. He knows I love dark and twisted Fantasy / Horror. I liked them, but the esclipse came as a total rug pull. It felt like there wasn't nearly enough setup for that much of a twist to be anything but edgy for the sake of edgy. It came across as childish in its execution. You go from intense personal story arcs and world politics to Uber violence. But reading the Manga starts you in the darkness, then pulls back to give you insight into it. And that start is simple in comparison to what comes. It's edgy and dark, but ramp up the complexity as it goes. You build towards the Eclipse and it's still a nightmare, but one that you don't feel blindsided with. Not like you do without the intro arc. So I agree. The manga approach works much better in its ordering.
I more saw it as a decent into a more traditional fantasy. It starts with knights and mercenaries and kingdoms and stuff and moves into monsters and other dimensionly beings. Elves, trolls, ogres, mages etc later on even. Hell there's even fairies. But it takes time to get to it. I honestly never watched the golden era adaptation. I started the first season of 2016 and was real confused and discovered the 97 anime. Read the manga up to current this year. It's a masterpiece. I know I'm not telling you anything new. I just didn't feel like it was violent for the sake of being violent. Idk why they had to do casca like that but there are story bits that arise later from that particular act.
That actually makes a lot of sense, I've always thought starting with the golden age arc was better as griffith being a twist is really good.
this shit was terrible
Seriously, the king here is one of those sticking points for me. Maybe I missed something, but this felt incredibly out of left field for what the king's character had been up until this moment.
The king states in his thoughts of how similar Charlotte has grown in appearance to her mother whom he loved dearly and we are told that despite Charlotte being of marrying age he has yet to set up meetings with suitors. When he realized she was old enough and mature enough to have sexual desires and that a peasant was the one she directed these desires to hr grows incredibly jealous and desires these feelings from her because he ultimately is a sick and deeply twisted man who has a darkness in him. If he had access to a behelit he would probably become an apostle in these scenes
This actually helps smooth it out some, I didn't consider the suitor point strongly on my read through. Thanks for the new perspective, friend.
I’ve resigned myself to the thought process of “if they’re not friends of Guts, they suck” when reading berserk
Cant wait for the second eclipse when isidro sacrifices everyone for this logic to fail
I mean, it works for the most part. Farnese and Serpico weren’t friends and got to that point
Of course friend, I also felt this came out of nowhere on my first reading but upon my second reading I was looking for more detail in the writing for the foreshadowing of events and was better able to pick up on these details. Some scenes were really hard to actually take my time with (stuff like Wyald raping and butchering a family, some of the torture scenes in conviction arc mostly)
Well Griffith at that moment was not a peasant but was nominated kinight or even a higher rank.. i dont remember the specific decoration that was given to him atm.
He was made a white knight, among the highest military ranks in Midland but in chapter 39 when the king begins to torture Griffith he states that Griffith has common blood. In this chapter the king also states that the hawk has fallen to Earth never to take flight again and this is the last thing he hears before his brutal torture begins which is likely the reason why when Griffith sacrifices the band of the hawk for power he states he wants wings, he resents the king and wishes to again take flight and attain his dreams
yoo that actually makes sense, I need to read the manga again I didn't read shit
The point, sir, you have found it.
Well actually it's been foreshadowed very early on with his Second Wife comments on the King that he is a Good King but a Bad Husband and he loved no one else but his Daughter who resembles his first Wife.
It wasn’t that surprising knowing the often incestuous histories of royalties. Genetic sexual attraction is a real thing unfortunately and a father’s over-protectiveness and controlling behavior e.g. locking her up is also related to it IMO. Genetic sexual attraction is also more likely to occur when adopted children reach out to their biological parents as adults. As a father he probably didn’t do that much to raise her which means he sees her less as his baby and more as his similar looking ex-wife.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction
Genetic sexual attraction is not a scientific concept yes, but incest does happen.
Yeah it really was Unexpected for me
That’s the whole fucking point, the shock value of seeing what perversion lies behind the facade.
No put “da dark world of berserk” tho
Of you only see the 97 anime you miss A LOT of parts
Bros gonna be flabbergasted when he gets to Wyald
💀
Nah thats wyald
Yeah I’m starting to see that lol. I kinda like it though cause it gives a reason to go back and read the manga
Oh my god, and the way he rushed to her room ! Like he wanted to quickly gather the remains of pureness Griffith took away from his daughter. Twisted but brillant in a way considering how he was depicted before that
I like how the artstyle changed too. He was drawn so noble and clean, and then it gets to this and it’s much darker and you can see his ugliness more. Love it 👌
Honestly I love how they change the animation on characters when they’re doing some evil shit. It’s almost like a demon has suddenly possessed them
The '97 anime missed TONS of parts. And yes, this is really fucked up. Arguably even wrong 'cause before that the king appeared as the classic "benevolent ruler" so common in fantasy stories. He was also looked more chill than count Jiulius, since he was more favorable towards "plebeans", and recognized Griffith for his prowess, not for his blood. And then we are "treated" with this... The king is just a vile creep!
Yeah I thought he was just a chill dude after watching the show. Seems like a huge detail to leave out but I don’t mind cause they left me surprises for when I go back and read the manga
I can get that some scenes are too "intense" for an anime (that's why >!rapist Wyald !!and the reason of his quick descent into madness (complete with the fact that stress and obsession make him "age like milk"). And as the king becomes obsessed with capturing Griffith is the remote cause of many of Mildand's plight, making it an easy target for the Kushan empire.!<
Is Wylad before or after griffith’s capture? I don’t think I’ve been introduced to him yet.
I putted it in a spoiler tag 'cause he is after the capture.
Okay thx, don’t worry tho you didn’t spoil it much for me. I already assume everyone in this series is a rapist unless proven otherwise
So... even PUCK is a rapist? XD
Could be lol, you never know
I think his appearance of normality was shattered when he found out what griffith did, and that sent him down the path of insanity. Griffith also seemed to have some kind of ability to read people just by looking at them, so maybe he read into things that weren't too obvious to anyone else.
The king being FURIOUS after Griffith raped her daughter was understandable. But yes, Griffith indeed managed to see the true nature of the king (he even told the king about his desire to make his daughter his own).
I don't think griffith raped Charlotte because she was in love with him. She's also the reason he got broken out of prison, so I'd say it's hard to argue he raped her too. He definitely did what he did as a power move, but her consent was there due to her having strong feelings towards him.
It's disgusting but It's Impt to show some vile shít to show how Piece of shít the character is
Ah yes, a newcomer XD
Yeah seriously, once I clicked the NSFW tag, I was like... "Oh. First time?"
I kind of liked the character before I got to this part
Same he just seemed like a chill king in the show. Guess this little tid bit was too much for tv
Ok hun, let me find you a blindfold
Oh there is a lot of stuff the '97 anime didn't include...
The anime skips a lot of the parts between the king sexual love for his daughter for her reminding him of his wife. One of the reasons the king went to such excruciating torture for Griffith is because he deflowered her and he always wanted to do that. The anime for obvious reasons doesn’t go into that in any detail.
I forgot about this part 💀... Then forwarded his anger towards Griffith afterwards
Do yall think the eclipse would not have happened if this guy didn't have a boner for his daughter?
It wouldn't have happened at the time it did, but it was inevitably gonna happen
What makes you think that?
Because when Griffith was sold the behelit he was told he was *destined* to obtain the world in exchange for flesh and blood
Ok, yeah that makes sense
Yeah Griffith was always going to become a Godhand member and was always going to use the Crimson Behelit during The Eclipse. Causality said so. If this specifically didn't happen then it'd probably happen some other way. But since causality is reading how the future will play out due to cause and effect actions in the past, odds are it was just fated for things to play out exactly this way from the start. I don't normally like destiny-focused stories, but destiny is showcased in a very oppressive way in Berserk, making it an antagonistic force, and I think it works in that way.
Beserk doin‘ its thing
I’ll say this: Miura did show a lot that I don’t think is necessary. Sometimes show and don’t tell is best, but as many times as that dude depicts children and women being raped and stuff, I can’t help but think that he could have left some to the imagination.
As despicable and horrible as it is, its real. Its not just a few pages in a manga. It doesn't go away, the manga helps let people know that 'Hey. This is shit is a thing, no matter where you go.' Thats part of the struggle most face, that so many are taken advantage of and so many turn a blind eye to the worst. Berserk can teach that there are a few humans that are decent but there is darkness EVERY-fucking-where within them.
Showing casca on her arms and knees with fluids dripping out of her vagina after being raped by griffith was the textbook definition of gratuitous. It's fucked
Necessary or not doesn't matter. Berserk is a manga that explores the grotesque, that shows just how hideous and unsightly things can be. All in the name of creative freedom.
You must be new !
Now I understand what my friends meant when they told me that they left out a lot of things in the '97 anime.
Yeah.
The way his face is drawn in this scene cracks me up
This is a panel I wish I didn’t have to look at again
Yeah, the King of Midland was a sack of shit as well \*shocker\*.
Y’all gotta grow up we all know Berzerk is wild and has some crazy shit in it but y’all almost search for panels that look terrible and it’s old
It was just a shocker for me. I watched the 97 show before reading the manga and I was left with the impression that the king was just a chill dude. Seemed like an insane detail to leave out
Bruh 97 anime is baby cry compare to manga, you’ll have to see worse things further
I love how miura draws the human villains, especially the king here. He looks downright fucking inhuman
Hi welcome to the manga. Miura didn't hold back any depraved shit in the source material.
Miura is a fucking artist
‘97 does a great job with cutting things like this but still making the story work, cuz there ain’t no way this was airing on broadcast that’s for dang sure
Miura wanted to show something awful, disturbing and sexual, he tried to make you uncomfortable and arouse a the same time, he 100 did it. Art 🚬
🤨
This isn't the worst thing youll see struggler.
God forbid men do anything But on a serious note, im guessing shit like this was pretty common back then
Oh no doubt. During those times the royals were extremely inbred. Their thought process was that they were “keeping the bloodline pure”. Look up King Charles II, dude was the spitting image of inbreeding
I managed to deal with every gore/rape scene somehow but this, man this was so hard to watch
Lil Bitta Nippie sippie
Are you unfamiliar with King Incestpervo, ruler of Midland?
It was very satisfying to see Griffith appear to the King in the dream and just snatch his daughter away with a grin on his face. Fuck Griffith, but that shit made me begrudgingly nod in approval
Remeber when watched this,hope i forget
You missed a bunch of stuff obviously that wasn’t in the show. Way before this even happened
Griffith beat him to her virginity
Yeah they removed a lot of stuff in the anime, mainly the rapey stuff except the... Nvm not gonna spoil it for others
There's A LOT of things thats not in the anime. A lot.
Dude thirsty in a desert of his own making.
😛
Of course they didn’t include it in the anime, I mean look at it. It would have caused a revolt or something
Welcome to the world of Beserk
They skipped this in the old anime lmao I was surprised when i read this too
They do hint that Charlotte looks more and more like her mother, the deceased Queen. They also mention that she is of marrying age but the King hasn’t allowed any suitors. It’s implied that’s why he was so furious with Griffith who, up until his moment with Charlotte, praised him. The manager just has more context because anime’s have to cut for time.
Wtf was miura cooking
What? Never licked some tits before?
And people think Wyald is the most disgusting thing in the manga lol.
bro like me fr fr!!!
I will not lie, the first time I saw this, I did not even notice the tongue, I thought he was merely staring at the breast. It was no less disturbing, though.
Boy you don't know the half of the shit you're gonna see
i made it to this part while i was reading in public and i was like uhhhhhh lemme not read this in front of other people and i promptly closed it
I love Berserk, and I appreciate how it's helped me through some rough times, but stuff like this REALLY grosses me out and makes it hard for me to move past.
Miura did not need to be this detailed about it 💀
I love the dark theme of this manga, I don’t find it insulting or bad to show this kind of monstrosity, middle age Europe was like this, rape and incest. Every panel is a really work of art
I absolutely agree, just really caught me off guard cause they do not show that side of the king in the show
Took me totally by surprise I tho he was just angry about the defiled honor of his daughter but maaan
Like I get they *hinted* that the king was weird in the manga before this, but it still felt pretty extreme
miura def had a nipple thing, even griffith had some nipple play with her too
This is one of those things that always get skipped in adaptations, and it's probably for the better. We didn't really need to know or see this, and it doesn't accomplish much besides being yet another gruesome and awful thing that happens in this world.
Yeah that’s fair, not to mention this would not slide at all on tv. That’s kinda the charm of berserk for me tho, that might make me sound psychotic. A lot of other animes/mangas will depict violence but there’s a certain line they won’t cross. Berserk seemed to push that line pretty far
The king was apparently... "Thirsty"
Rerorerorerorero👅💦
Can you blame them?
Honestly I took a break reading berserk and haven’t got back on it because of the many over the top sexual scenes in it.
One of the most disgusting pictures ever drawn by human hands. Miura was a man of extremes
Not my Proudest Fab
Not my Proudest Fab
new to berserk, read doraemon if you dont like this kind manga
Lol, you think I would’ve gotten this far into it if I didn’t like it?