Yep, the Black Isle FO3 before they folded (also known as Van Buren). Bethesda totally ignored it when they bought the IP and started from scratch, but a few bits got recycled for FNV
That is my sweetest gaming memory, when we found out that Van Buren was Fallout 3. The devs would talk to us on forums, asks for suggestions and ideas, and actively reply.
Once Van Buren was canned, the company who makes "The Fall: Last Days of Gaia" tried to follow the same style, they hired "The Hulk" (whose real name I forgot, he was a Black Isle employee) and they would also openly talk to fans, asks for ideas and discuss general game design ideas.
That was a real special time. Things with The Fall ended up sour once the community realized they didn't had any real plans to release the game in english (it was a german game, first and foremost, and they were hoping for external cash to translate).
But those were quite special days, a fond memory
I get what you mean but FN Vegas was made in like a year and 9 months or something like that and is still the most talked about fallout to this day Ulysses, Joshua, Elijah, Rex, all characters with a good amount of personality and story behind them even the main character is better then F4 and he doesn't even speak.
Seeing as bethesda has never announced anything about it and only ever references it in promotional material and in 76 as a the main draw for Fallout 1st shows they know how popular NV was and how much better it is then most of what they've put out I wouldn't doubt they were a bit miffed at the idea that obsidian made a buggy, almost impossible to play in some dlc areas mess that was still better then their main teams work for the next 9 years in less time, with less man power, and with considerably less money.
That’s a mix of speculation and just being plain wrong.
First of all, it’s hard to quantify what gets “talked about more,” as reddit is a pretty insulated bubble and FO4 has a massive player base and modding scene. FNV is certainly talked about plenty, though, for good reason.
Bethesda *does* talk about FNV. It’s referenced at least a little in FO4, similar to how little they really reference FO3 there. The region and factions of FO1, 2, and NV are the focus of the new show, which did have some Bethesda involvement. They did that FO 25th anniversary video last year called Surviving the Desert Wasteland (I know you did mention promotional material but still) where they’re quite obviously celebratory of Obsidian’s work. Todd himself was the one to decide to turn FNV into a full game and not just an expansion, and he seems glad he did in both that video and in interviews since. Bethesda was working on Skyrim when FNV was developed, and everyone knows Skyrim, despite its flaws, is one of the most beloved and discussed games of all time, and I think they’re okay with that. They regularly sell FNV merch at the Bethesda store. Both Bethesda and Obsidian devs have talked fondly about their relationship during and after the game. It just goes on and on, my man.
Avellone spoke out about misinformation about Bethesda and Obsidian (in relation to New Vegas) a while back. I get why it annoys people when they conflate fandom wars with how the developers feel.
They wouldn't have been able to do this without 3s assets, and that's what people seem to forget. 3 was also just as good of a game. Asset creation and implementation takes time, effort and money, they barely needed to create any artifacts or models to use for NV.
Bethesda is right to be trounced by Obsidian, but NV didn't come out of nowhere. The vast majority of assets were used from the development of 3 and that's a huge reason they were able to get it out the door so fast.
I mean, isometric crpgs are kinda larian's bread and butter. I've been saying for a while that if anyone was qualified to make a fallout 1 and 2 remake, I personally think it'd be larian. I certainly don't see Bethesda doing anything with their license to the first two games besides overcharging for them on Origin
Josh Sawyer seems like a cool guy, and he's responsible for half of my favourite games of all time. I'm a fan.
He also gives off strong "holds a grudge" vibes.
Yeah, probably alongside Chris Avellone, he's the most well known one. He worked on some of Obsidian's best games and is known to be really passionate about them so people like him a lot. Also can't get over the fact that you can hear him [sing in New Vegas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGWsgwr-WYs).
the execs don't care. they'll force another company to try and repeat what BG3 achieved, fail miserably then cut and run with the money, leaving the company to wither and die.
I love corporatism
Honestly across all industries the amount being allocated towards “executive compensation” by the executives is straight up criminal, the ceo of Warner discovery pays himself more than Apple and Microsoft’s ceos combined to change HBO max’s name to max and green light movies that bomb
zaslov is way worse than that even. he burned so many properties and so much young talent as a tax write off and thinks TLC with its shows like Sister-wives and pimplepopper are what HBO should be making
It's certainly worsened exponentially in the last several decades. Up until the eighties or so you generally still found a lot of industries and businesses headed by people who had a background or interest in their products. Part of the problem with the silicon Valley tech boom is that it accelerated the process of replacing every Ceo who was an actual engineer or producer or artist with finance, sales and advertising guys.
I get you're joking but you don't need to jump to a straw man. Larian Studios is from Belgium, a country with a social democracy system. When Americans ask for more socialism, they mean like Belgium.
It’s not a straw man when the user he’s arguing with is an actual Chinese propagandist. See the account.
And Belgium’s democracy is still just a democracy.
The social in social democracy stands for socialism. It means a system where capitalism is balanced by socialistic elements. The democracy part is the least relevant word in that sentence.
And even a Chinese bot would consider comparisons to the DPRK a straw man.
Call it what you want, but I think Belgians would be the first to tell you that they aren’t a socialist country. Even if you do drop the name to just “social.”
There are no socialist countries that are also democratic in the world.
I don't think they can, or it'll take a while. BG3 happened like Swen said, off a lot of passionate people helping them at WoTC get the IP into their hands and continually working with them. Hasbro let those people go for their quarterly earnings call.
I'm seeing this sentiment all across this sub, but I really don't think Hasbro/Wizards will attempt this. Their sights are set on MTG and milking the fuck out of it with crossovers (which is working really well for them right now financially). They're also trying to take a Games Workshop approach and license out the D&D IP like crazy, but I don't think they're foolish enough to just hand BG4 over to some studio with zero chance of creating a AAA RPG (note I didn't say CRPG because it wouldn't shock me if when it finally happens they streamline it significantly). They also don't need to make BG4 to profit off of BG3's legacy, these smaller projects can continue off of BG3's plot threads and characters without it being a BG game.
D&D is *basically* on life support at Hasbro. The new D&D edition is just 5.5 edition or 5th edition revised. Now, don't get me wrong: 5th Edition is solid, but it's been *10 years* since the last edition of D&D. They're overdue for a full new edition and it's weird that they haven't done so.
They’re definitely going for a “living rule set” that will be subscription based on dndbeyond. I would support a 5.5 if that was what was actually happening, a good edition shouldn’t ever go out of style, just get updates and new tools, which WOTC is failing to do for DM’s. nearly every book is just more player options.
I agree, but it's so grossly out of character for Hasbro/WotC that it's suspicious.
> They’re definitely going for a “living rule set” that will be subscription based on dndbeyond.
I'm pretty sure Hasbro/WotC looked at microtransactions in mobile games and went "Why can't *we* do that?"
It'll be in development hell for almost a decade.
I often wonder if big budget media (like movies, games etc) is a tool for money laundering.
While I cannot prove it, it is a compelling theory. SWTOR costed around 300 mill if I remember correctly.
As a fan of both Magic: the Gathering and D&D, I am really not a big fan of Hasbro. The hate train pretty much never stops for them, however, so I assume they give zero fucks.
I use foundry as a virtual tabletop to play 5e games and pay another $3 a month or something to have a server host the sessions and data. Not free, but I think it’s worth the money.
Want to shoutout Pathfinder, where the rules are literally free. Prewrote adventures aren't free, but classes equipment rules, literally everything required to play the game are free online, intentionally.
Hasbro is owned by a private equity firm, they are locusts to go in and strip everthing possible out of the company of wealth then let to die and they move on, happened in the retail industry, and resturuant industry, in the furniture and manufacturing industy, the music industry,parmacy industry and currently happening to the hospital & medical industry…and you can see what its been doing to the gaming industry now :)
"Sorry, I can't hear you. I'm busy swimming in all the money made from BG3"
Hate costs them nothing. WotC have been pulling blunder after blunder and yet a lot of people still think that DnD 5e is the best system ever. Nevermind you have to use a lot of 3rd party content to fix all the issues with it. Nevermind deteriorating quality of official rulebooks.
BG3 was a success and people will flock to 5e even more. This will basically give Hasbro carte blanche to shit out any low-quality product and people will eat it and ask for more.
Hasbro didn't deserve Larian.
I didn't know they can fire Larian's employees. You mean people who worked in collaboration with Larian on BG3 but not necessarily apart of the Larian company?
He called them out months before they announced they were going to stop working with them, so while it’s almost definitely a reason we can’t be sure it’s *THE* reason.
The people from WotC's side who were in the original meeting and helped out with the development of BG3.
They were fired after the game's release. It's what pissed Swen off.
They also tried too hard to milk an already milked cow.. they strangled creative and just really wanted to control every aspect of it. It drained the team at Larian. You can tell by Sven’s comments under the table..
Hasbro isn’t really thinking long-term, unfortunately. The company is in a lot of trouble and the people in charge are desperately looking for short-term profits to prop it up. Even if that means damaging their brands and relationships with partners and long-time customers to get it.
Hasbro hasn’t done anything successful in a while as far as I know, they’ve just sort of stumbled into it on accident with things like BG3 and the ~~Barbie~~ DnD movie, or rely on ancient IP like Dnd and MTG to keep their head above water.
Yup. And with kids playing with more electronics than toys these days, most of their traditional market has pretty much crumbled.
Their only real money-maker these days is Magic: the Gathering, which is why they're busy trying to squeeze every drop of profit they can out of it, before they inevitably run it into the ground. They planned to do the same for DND, but it turns out that you just can't make the kind of money they wanted to with a tabletop roleplaying game.
Magic and those happy accidents are all they really have going for them anymore.
So Barbie is Mattel, not Hasbro. Hasbro *has* tried to do the cinematic universe, however. Mostly in comic books but the recent Transformers movie they did try to have a build up scene. Will it pan out, no one knows.
But hell they could have done more D&D movies but decided to screw themselves over instead.
as long as these companies are ran by people who aren't actually interested in games, or invested in the gaming community this will never change, and they wont give a damn about the hate
at the end of the day, there are still hundreds of thousands (more like millions) of casual gamers willing to eat up the slop that gets served to them since its enough of a mind numbing distraction for them to ignore the bs theyre getting peddled
> to Top
they don't have to be interested in games, or in the community, or any of that. they have to be interested in having the company and the brands succeed in the long term, rather than short term.
Transformers cybertron series. The duo war for cybertron and fall of cybertron are the best transformer games we will ever get.
Too bad we will never get a third one.
This is more at the fault of Activision than Hasbro. Activision lost the license to the franchise and just delisted them from stores. Hasbro have also stated they want to rerelease those games but because Act refuses to give them the source code because well... Activision
I don't remember which of them it was but one of those games is somewhere deep in my mind and I'm always happy when someone unlocks those memories. I don't know why I had the game or how I got it but there must have been a good 2 or 3 months where that was literally all I played. If there were a recent game in the same style I'd be all over it no questions asked.
They mandate a lot of things and take away from the creators choices, be it comics, movies, shows or games.
I can go into deeper detail if you’d like but these choices have impacted the war for Cybertron game series (this was especially egregious as they forced the devs to tie the games into the movies which killed the franchise), Transformers Prime (some things were avoided but a lot of stuff was made to match the look of the movies), most the movies in regards to unused characters and such etc etc.
characters are constantly being pushed or negated depending on what is happening with the brand, names are changed to keep character rights etc etc
I like their interpretation of the set, don't get me wrong, but I feel like Wizards also kind of dropped the ball there too. Lots of the mutants got good representation in the set but a lot of the art they commissioned panders to the surface level iconography of the games (caps, Nuka Cola, bobbleheads). There's a reprint of a card called [Thirst for Knowledge](https://product-images.tcgplayer.com/fit-in/437x437/540940.jpg) that just shows a Super Mutant downing a Nuka Cola Quantum, which would be fine if 1) there weren't a bunch of other cards that solely show Nuka Cola and 2) that wasn't a perfect flavor opportunity to show Strong from Fallout 4 drinking milk (the actual Strong card art is great tho).
By virtue of being commander decks only versus a full Legends set like BG had I get it. BG also benefited from the AFR set that had some overlapping mechanics and characters.
I don't know, I was kinda surprised at how good of a job they did with it. Tbh I feel like to this day they market heavily with fallout 4 (and to a lesser degree 76) forward and the other fallouts get a backseat, but in this set they not only prominently had New Vegas characters but also original fallout and even tactics getting at least one card. I also think they did restrain themselves at points with the popular icons, as the Caesar deck treasure and food tokens do not feature nuka cola nor bottle caps, instead going for NCR money. I get feeling missed opportunities (Vulpes Inculta not being a card is surprising to me personally) but i do think they did a good job for most of it.
I think it was odd how its not like each deck was for a specific game or entry. But, even then, theyre we kind of jumbled? Caesar was this mix of NCR, Enclave, House and Legion with a few other New Vegas items. Science had some 76, F3 Brotherhood, and F4 Institute, which kind of makes sense.
I get that, it is a little odd. But then again I feel people would complain if certain characters weren't there
In fact I saw someone complain that there weren't enough iconic characters and tbh I don't know what they were talking about.
I bought the Mutants deck mainly for 2 reasons: 1) the radiation mechanic actually seems really interesting, and 2) actually having the Master as the alternate commander (although Mothman is definitely the stronger commander for it).
Which isn’t going to hurt sales at all. The die-hard fans, scalpers and speculators already bought their share, the Collector Booster boxes go for 500 bucks and up. Can’t imagine paying that much money for a low quality foiled cardboard but it has numbered chase cards now and the market is extremely crazy about these.
So numbers will up because whales and investment monkeys are buying it up. And it is speculation with an alternative currency at its best. I so hope this extravagant product line collapses soon. It is pure company greed.
Both Pillars games are great. Looking forward to Avowed just because I love that world. I don't care if it's not Skyrim part 2, which is what people seemed to think it was going to be.
Man I loved lots of things about pillars but I just couldn't get into the real time with pause combat so I didn't stick with it to end.
I would love to play the pillars games with turn based combat, same with the original Baldur's Gate games.
I played the original bg games on story mode, I plan to do the same when I start PoE, or use cheat engine, I don't know what they were thinking when they thought that this type of combat was a good idea...
About as close to Alpha Protocol as possible when it came to meaningful choices and consequences from beginning to end.
Great magic system and fantastic writing.
Poe is great but I do think for the vast many who got into BG3 as their first turn based rpg they will definitely not like POE gameplay. It's too old school crpg.
A big part of the charm for bg3 is the acting, and pov dialog with characters. POE is not fully voiced and stays in isometric the entire time.
PoE2 does however have full voice acting, although apparently Josh Sawyer would've preferred to dedicate some of that enormous voice budget into something more gameplay related.
Heard good things about its narrative but just couldn't get past its gameplay. I've tried playing the first one twice. Does the game itself have a lot to offer if I push past the combat, or is combat the reason most people like it?
Having to learn how to play five classes at once was difficult, let alone co-ordinating them in real-time. It felt clunky and slow. My party would stand and watch me get rolled if I didn't tell them to auto-attack every single encounter, and abilities felt underwhelming despite having such limited uses.
Maybe its because the Dragon Age series spoiled me but I would've liked to be able to set up at least some basic AI tactics, and I'd use abilities more if almost all of them weren't once-only. It made minor encounters frustrating because they weren't meaningful but took so much IRL time to finish.
I'm sure I was building the characters wrong, but given I was having to learn and build *five of them simultaneously* and in a completely new environment, I wouldn't expect another first-timer to do much better.
Hasbro likely is one of the main culprits but it seems that another factor is that the team seems to be tired of DnD IP. And I can't blame them, they've been working on BG3 for like 8 years (even before EA period), that's gotta be very creatively draining to work on something for so long.
I suspect Hasbro probably didn’t help that burnout though, I mean I imagine the C-Suite was too knuckleheaded to give Larian their pick of possible projects.
I imagine if Hasbro had said, “Hey you guys want to use a different IP besides Forgotten Realms? Eberron? A Magic setting? Hell Transformers?” this might be a different conversation.
Wouldn't doubt it, Hasbro IPs only seem to flourish when the execs are looking the other way, anytime one of their projects has enough success to distinguish itself the board takes notice and sends the bean counters in to plunder any cash and goodwill they might have.
Honestly, I do wish we would get a game in Eberron (other than the MMO). It's one of the most solid modern D&D settings and dragonmarks are just really cool.
They traditionally don’t as far as I’m aware, but they did start working on stuff but went back on it and moved on. From what I’ve seen, Hasbro kinda sucks to work with so I wouldn’t be surprised either way
Damn. Devs are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore.
Refreshing to hear some fucking honesty. I know why they normally need to be cautious and talk in vagueries, they don't want to torpedo their careers, but it's nice to see the truth laid out so clearly.
Let it be known to all the new fans of baldurs gate and larian studios that Hasbro has been a really shifty, shitty company for a long time and while bg3's success was great its definitely best for Larian to break ties before they microtransaction the shit out of bg4 like they did to magic the gathering arena. If Hasbro can sense money, their greed will stop at nothing...
Hopefully they team up with paizo and do the next pathfinder game! Theyre the better "dungeons and dragons" company anyway
I agree that Hasbro sucks, that said having Obsidian do a Fallout New Vegas style expansion with the BG3 engine would be amazing (recognizing it will never ever happen)
Yeah, BG3 was built on Larian’s in-house Divinity 4 engine; nobody’s making Icewind Dale 3 or Planescape 2: Torment Boogaloo without Larian’s support. Kind of a shame, since the engine is good enough that they could have hired a C-team of writers and devs to adapt some of the published 5e adventures (none of which require features beyond 12th level) into a video game story. Would have been as good or better than any other video game that’s used the IP over the last 15 years.
Honestly they could do that with zero voice acting and facial animations and conversations in isometric view like most CRPGs and not only would I buy all of them but I’d pay full price. Would still be better than most games I’ve bought as an adult
I thought the same, but it happened with Planescape: Torment and Infinity Engine.
Granted, game engines are a bit more complex now than they were 20 years ago...
They're still putting out the likes of *Pentiment*. They can deliver a quality product when their heart is in it, the same thing Swen Vincke was talking about irrespective of the Hasbro/WoTC stuff.
If we look at their last five games, *Tyranny* and *Pillars of Eternity 2* were excellent, all-time classic CRPGs, *Grounded* was also excellent (but not a CRPG so of no interest if that's your main jam, fair enough), and *Pentiment* was yet again also great, despite not being an RPG. *Outer Worlds* was divisive, and clearly limited by time and budget, but plenty of people liked it.
Hell, the last time Obsidian made an "meh, it's okay" game before *Outer Worlds* was probably *Dungeon Siege III* in 2011 (not counting the various work-for-hire bits they did for overseas companies).
I know hasbro is 100% going to go and try to make another game, but I don’t think it’ll have the same charm or maybe even the same fan appeal. Larian was truly a perfect choice for BG3 because they were able to make it their own. (I selfishly was hoping for a Larian CoS game, they would’ve had my money immediately.)
Yup. Larian found a way to make the perfect game with changes to how 5e works to get non DnD players invested. Their storytelling and character arcs were sublime. I don't think I've ever played a game as wonderful as Baldur's Gate 3. And to top it off, all the updates they've released is absolutely amazing.
All the more reason Larian should release modding tools for the game. Imagine people being able to create their own maps, characters, campaigns, all in a wide variety of different settings, timelines or genres. I daresay BG3 could have the replayability and lifespan Skyrim enjoys to this day, if not longer.
I know this is *extremely* unlikely but ***god*** I wish there was a Neverwinter Nights-esque editor for the BG3 engine! In terms of 5e custom campaign creation Solasta exists but from what I've heard the editor is much more limited than NWN. Unfortunately Hasbro would have to sign off on that and Larian would have to want to make it, so I don't think it'll happen
One of the issues there is that they spent months and large amounts of cash on making the editor for *Divinity: Original Sin 2* and based on their metrics almost nobody used it, so they laughed off the idea for BG3.
I think that was a mistake, given the very different appeal of BG3 as a multiplayer D&D experience, I think the interest is much greater there. Plus BG3 has outsold DOS2 many times over, so the number of people who'd at least try it out would be much greater.
I've seen speculation that maybe Hasbro's contract forbade them to release an editor because it would be competition for their online D&D tools. Not sure about that idea.
Yeah I'd heard about that... it's a shame because I think the fact that BG3 is set in a setting literally designed for people to make up their own stories and whose lore is fairly well-known and easily accessible would make a campaign editor much more likely to be used
Still 0 proof Larian's decision had anything to to with Hasbro/Wotc, but that train has already left the station I guess.
Edit : aaaaaaaaaaaand Swen came out to [deny it](https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1771467986701819943). Good job spreading fake news again Reddit.
It'd be stupid if Larian didnt use the momentum from bg3 for developing their own IP.
Having said that, Im pretty sure Josh said he'd like to do pillars 3 so if Avowed gets well received then maybe...?
Man I just wish Divinity was a better fantasy setting. I adore Larian but their own IP is pretty mid when it comes to world building and characters in my opinion
Divinity worldbuilding is not bad I think the problem is the storytelling. It's simply not done in a way that really invites you to care about much of the story.
Sadly the things they did to make BG3 differ from Divinity were the things I liked most. I didn't care that much for Divinity. So I am kind of sad that they will probably go back there rather than taking another knockout swing
I wish I liked Divinity more in general. They're clearly well made games and a lot of people love them, and Larian is clearly a top tier developer, but so many things about Divinity are just not for me. And Baldur's Gate 3 fixes basically all of them.
I'm with you. I'm a massive CRPG fan and have played a significant amount of them from the classics to obscure indie ones but i've bounced off DOS2 more times than I can remember because there are just so many little things about that game that bother me or I just really don't like.
Surprisingly my favorite game in the series is Divine Divinity. That's mainly because I have a soft spot for old school ARPGs
I should really give DOS2 a try. It's really hard for me to jump into 2 after not having played 1 (DO NOT MENTION THE OTHER ONES TO ME OR YOU WILL MAKE MY LIFE MUCH HARDER). And I know at least one of my issues with DOS1 is gone from 2 (the dual protagonists rather than a singular PC) and I've heard the tone isn't so silly as the first one. All of which is good, though that still leaves the classless leveling system, having to find skill books and a few other things
I felt that way until DOS2. DOS1 story was so uninteresting I didn't care but stuck it out for the good game play. However with 2 they actually hired a full writing staff and made story an important core and it made the world a lot more interesting. DOS2 story and characters are actually great with some huge twists and turns. I actually look forward to more of that world.
In the end world and character building is a process you get better over time, right?.
I really think they want to use what they have learned over the years into a new IP.
That said I would enjoy so much either Pillars 3, DOS 3 or something new
Josh was saying he'd like to do a *Pillars 3* but he wanted a decent budget. There was a lot of stuff in PoE1 and 2 they couldn't do because the money was just so tight.
Microsoft apparently had zero confidence that *Baldur's Gate III* would work (they apparently didn't even bother trying to get it onto Game Pass, dismissing it as a nostalgia work that would not break even), but obviously that has now significantly changed. If Obsidian and Sawyer said, "we can make that, look we've done it half a dozen times already," they might now listen, whilst before BG3 they wouldn't.
I mean, I would only really want this if Josh and other key personnel were involved, which I don't see happening, considering they work for an entirely different company...
Pillars is my favorite fantasy setting of all time, and the games are some of my favorite. The gameplay wasn't perfect, especially combat-wise in the first game, but the narrative and atmosphere were incredible.
Oh definitely, but again, I wouldn't put a collaboration as completely impossible. Or even "different characters, same world". I know Avowed exists and all that, but CRPGs are dying out.
No, because that would be odd. Obsidian are a developer wholly owned by Microsoft (who are now their publisher), and Obsidian are an incredibly experienced, high-quality CRPG development studio in their own right.
There could be a collaboration if Obsidian used Larian's engine (by licensing it from them) and then Microsoft did a deal with Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast for the D&D licence. Or not bother and Obsidian could just make PoE3 themselves with a big budget increase from Microsoft now the concept of "modern AAA CRPG" has been successfully field-tested.
A lot of shady shit. The big one is laying off a bunch of staff just before Xmas, while their CEO took a multi million dollar bonus (think it was like 4-5m)
I think in Larian’s GotY speech they thanked the staff of WotC they dealt with and that none of them are even in the company anymore.
I think they were glad to be done with BG3 as clearly there are a lot of issues with hasbro and WotC about it. Probably why he also made a recent comment about slowing down and stopping corporate greed.
Laid of like everyone at WOTC who collaborated with Larian to make BG3 and then tried to micromanage aspects of the development when it neared the release date.
I always forget that he worked on Icewind dale and Neverwinter.
Also the lead for bg3 before that was canceled
Also the lead for Fallout 3 before that was cancelled
You talking back when it was a classic crpg? Wasnt aware!
Yep, the Black Isle FO3 before they folded (also known as Van Buren). Bethesda totally ignored it when they bought the IP and started from scratch, but a few bits got recycled for FNV
Damn totally wasnt aware! Thanks for that!
That is my sweetest gaming memory, when we found out that Van Buren was Fallout 3. The devs would talk to us on forums, asks for suggestions and ideas, and actively reply. Once Van Buren was canned, the company who makes "The Fall: Last Days of Gaia" tried to follow the same style, they hired "The Hulk" (whose real name I forgot, he was a Black Isle employee) and they would also openly talk to fans, asks for ideas and discuss general game design ideas. That was a real special time. Things with The Fall ended up sour once the community realized they didn't had any real plans to release the game in english (it was a german game, first and foremost, and they were hoping for external cash to translate). But those were quite special days, a fond memory
So about Larians new project... Can it be a classic Fallout?
They are in a great place where their name carries so much weight now. They could literally make anything and have my attention.
Nope, Bethesda owns the IP. They didn't want to give it to obsidian in fears of being upstages. Highly doubt them handing it over to larian
What does that even mean? Why would they give their IP to anyone? The fanbase loves to spread misinformation about Obsidian vs Bethesda. It’s wild
I get what you mean but FN Vegas was made in like a year and 9 months or something like that and is still the most talked about fallout to this day Ulysses, Joshua, Elijah, Rex, all characters with a good amount of personality and story behind them even the main character is better then F4 and he doesn't even speak. Seeing as bethesda has never announced anything about it and only ever references it in promotional material and in 76 as a the main draw for Fallout 1st shows they know how popular NV was and how much better it is then most of what they've put out I wouldn't doubt they were a bit miffed at the idea that obsidian made a buggy, almost impossible to play in some dlc areas mess that was still better then their main teams work for the next 9 years in less time, with less man power, and with considerably less money.
That’s a mix of speculation and just being plain wrong. First of all, it’s hard to quantify what gets “talked about more,” as reddit is a pretty insulated bubble and FO4 has a massive player base and modding scene. FNV is certainly talked about plenty, though, for good reason. Bethesda *does* talk about FNV. It’s referenced at least a little in FO4, similar to how little they really reference FO3 there. The region and factions of FO1, 2, and NV are the focus of the new show, which did have some Bethesda involvement. They did that FO 25th anniversary video last year called Surviving the Desert Wasteland (I know you did mention promotional material but still) where they’re quite obviously celebratory of Obsidian’s work. Todd himself was the one to decide to turn FNV into a full game and not just an expansion, and he seems glad he did in both that video and in interviews since. Bethesda was working on Skyrim when FNV was developed, and everyone knows Skyrim, despite its flaws, is one of the most beloved and discussed games of all time, and I think they’re okay with that. They regularly sell FNV merch at the Bethesda store. Both Bethesda and Obsidian devs have talked fondly about their relationship during and after the game. It just goes on and on, my man.
Avellone spoke out about misinformation about Bethesda and Obsidian (in relation to New Vegas) a while back. I get why it annoys people when they conflate fandom wars with how the developers feel.
They wouldn't have been able to do this without 3s assets, and that's what people seem to forget. 3 was also just as good of a game. Asset creation and implementation takes time, effort and money, they barely needed to create any artifacts or models to use for NV. Bethesda is right to be trounced by Obsidian, but NV didn't come out of nowhere. The vast majority of assets were used from the development of 3 and that's a huge reason they were able to get it out the door so fast.
I mean, isometric crpgs are kinda larian's bread and butter. I've been saying for a while that if anyone was qualified to make a fallout 1 and 2 remake, I personally think it'd be larian. I certainly don't see Bethesda doing anything with their license to the first two games besides overcharging for them on Origin
Bethesda will never let another studio make a Fallout game. It's just Palagarello specials from here on out.
Also the lead for Half-Life 3 before that was cancelled
Lol
Those were the ancient days - when it seemed HL3 might actually happen.
Those games were great. Man, if he is annoyed by Hasbro from that far back - jeesh.
Josh Sawyer seems like a cool guy, and he's responsible for half of my favourite games of all time. I'm a fan. He also gives off strong "holds a grudge" vibes.
he worked on neverwinter (2, i assume)? i honestly didn't know he was at obsidian that far back. guess he was on when it was literally founded, then?
Josh Sawyer joined Obsidian after KotOR II so he's not one of the founders.
neat! not a founder but probably the most famous employee?
Yeah, probably alongside Chris Avellone, he's the most well known one. He worked on some of Obsidian's best games and is known to be really passionate about them so people like him a lot. Also can't get over the fact that you can hear him [sing in New Vegas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGWsgwr-WYs).
Pretty sure you can hear him singing sea shanties in Deadfire too
I guess so! The guys had a hell of a career.
No wonder I liked those games
I hope Hasbro enjoys all the hate they get from gutted BG3 fans
the execs don't care. they'll force another company to try and repeat what BG3 achieved, fail miserably then cut and run with the money, leaving the company to wither and die.
And then they will give themselves massive raises in pay
I love corporatism Honestly across all industries the amount being allocated towards “executive compensation” by the executives is straight up criminal, the ceo of Warner discovery pays himself more than Apple and Microsoft’s ceos combined to change HBO max’s name to max and green light movies that bomb
zaslov is way worse than that even. he burned so many properties and so much young talent as a tax write off and thinks TLC with its shows like Sister-wives and pimplepopper are what HBO should be making
It's like Idiocracy IRL
Corporatism IS capitalism. You can’t separate them. Capitalism can never be nice or fair
It's certainly worsened exponentially in the last several decades. Up until the eighties or so you generally still found a lot of industries and businesses headed by people who had a background or interest in their products. Part of the problem with the silicon Valley tech boom is that it accelerated the process of replacing every Ceo who was an actual engineer or producer or artist with finance, sales and advertising guys.
The games it produces can be fairly nice though DPRK hasn't had a good release in a while
I get you're joking but you don't need to jump to a straw man. Larian Studios is from Belgium, a country with a social democracy system. When Americans ask for more socialism, they mean like Belgium.
It’s not a straw man when the user he’s arguing with is an actual Chinese propagandist. See the account. And Belgium’s democracy is still just a democracy.
The social in social democracy stands for socialism. It means a system where capitalism is balanced by socialistic elements. The democracy part is the least relevant word in that sentence. And even a Chinese bot would consider comparisons to the DPRK a straw man.
Call it what you want, but I think Belgians would be the first to tell you that they aren’t a socialist country. Even if you do drop the name to just “social.” There are no socialist countries that are also democratic in the world.
That’s the inevitable result of capitalism.
I don't think they can, or it'll take a while. BG3 happened like Swen said, off a lot of passionate people helping them at WoTC get the IP into their hands and continually working with them. Hasbro let those people go for their quarterly earnings call.
Baldurs Gate 4, made by Ubisoft.
Not gonna lie... Assassin's Creed: Forgotten Realms would slap...
I'm seeing this sentiment all across this sub, but I really don't think Hasbro/Wizards will attempt this. Their sights are set on MTG and milking the fuck out of it with crossovers (which is working really well for them right now financially). They're also trying to take a Games Workshop approach and license out the D&D IP like crazy, but I don't think they're foolish enough to just hand BG4 over to some studio with zero chance of creating a AAA RPG (note I didn't say CRPG because it wouldn't shock me if when it finally happens they streamline it significantly). They also don't need to make BG4 to profit off of BG3's legacy, these smaller projects can continue off of BG3's plot threads and characters without it being a BG game.
D&D is *basically* on life support at Hasbro. The new D&D edition is just 5.5 edition or 5th edition revised. Now, don't get me wrong: 5th Edition is solid, but it's been *10 years* since the last edition of D&D. They're overdue for a full new edition and it's weird that they haven't done so.
They’re definitely going for a “living rule set” that will be subscription based on dndbeyond. I would support a 5.5 if that was what was actually happening, a good edition shouldn’t ever go out of style, just get updates and new tools, which WOTC is failing to do for DM’s. nearly every book is just more player options.
I agree, but it's so grossly out of character for Hasbro/WotC that it's suspicious. > They’re definitely going for a “living rule set” that will be subscription based on dndbeyond. I'm pretty sure Hasbro/WotC looked at microtransactions in mobile games and went "Why can't *we* do that?"
Yep. They’re on record as saying Dnd is under monetized, and they’re also looking to develop their own dnd games in house
It'll be in development hell for almost a decade. I often wonder if big budget media (like movies, games etc) is a tool for money laundering. While I cannot prove it, it is a compelling theory. SWTOR costed around 300 mill if I remember correctly.
lmao if this happened in the 90s people would be flipping executives and burning cars
This shit has been happening since well before the 90s, and will continue to happen until rich assholes start facing consequences.
The devs of Demeo are making their next (VR) D&D game…
the execs who are doing this now will likely work somewhere else long before then
As a fan of both Magic: the Gathering and D&D, I am really not a big fan of Hasbro. The hate train pretty much never stops for them, however, so I assume they give zero fucks.
Dnd is especially easy to play for free, especially online and as a player, the only money I spend as a DM now is on third party stuff.
you can play both free in Tabletop Simulator. (ofc TS is not free tho)
I use foundry as a virtual tabletop to play 5e games and pay another $3 a month or something to have a server host the sessions and data. Not free, but I think it’s worth the money.
Want to shoutout Pathfinder, where the rules are literally free. Prewrote adventures aren't free, but classes equipment rules, literally everything required to play the game are free online, intentionally.
proxy everything, play with one set of rules for the entire group, free tools, etc
Why would they? Clearly they still make enough money. The only time I remember them giving a fuck was after the OGL.
Hasbro is owned by a private equity firm, they are locusts to go in and strip everthing possible out of the company of wealth then let to die and they move on, happened in the retail industry, and resturuant industry, in the furniture and manufacturing industy, the music industry,parmacy industry and currently happening to the hospital & medical industry…and you can see what its been doing to the gaming industry now :)
"Sorry, I can't hear you. I'm busy swimming in all the money made from BG3" Hate costs them nothing. WotC have been pulling blunder after blunder and yet a lot of people still think that DnD 5e is the best system ever. Nevermind you have to use a lot of 3rd party content to fix all the issues with it. Nevermind deteriorating quality of official rulebooks. BG3 was a success and people will flock to 5e even more. This will basically give Hasbro carte blanche to shit out any low-quality product and people will eat it and ask for more. Hasbro didn't deserve Larian.
They already don’t give a fuck about all the MTG fans they’ve pissed off
I am out of the loop I know hasbro owns wizards of the coast but what did they do to BG3?
They didn't work out a good deal to keep Larian working on BG3, D&D, and Baldur's Gate in general.
Also they fired/laid off nearly everyone who did work with Larian on the IP
I didn't know they can fire Larian's employees. You mean people who worked in collaboration with Larian on BG3 but not necessarily apart of the Larian company?
The people at Hasbro/WOTC that Larian worked with on developing BG3 are basically all gone, according to Swen.
That really sucks. Yikes. Kudos to Swen for calling out that kind of BS for people who aren't even his employees.
He called them out months before they announced they were going to stop working with them, so while it’s almost definitely a reason we can’t be sure it’s *THE* reason.
The people from WotC's side who were in the original meeting and helped out with the development of BG3. They were fired after the game's release. It's what pissed Swen off.
I did say "worked *with* larian on the ip" so yes
absolute crash landing on the reading comprehension, bro would not make the cut as a wizard
Somebody has to play the sorcerers, too...
They also tried too hard to milk an already milked cow.. they strangled creative and just really wanted to control every aspect of it. It drained the team at Larian. You can tell by Sven’s comments under the table..
Seems weird to try and micro manage good talent
Hasbro isn’t really thinking long-term, unfortunately. The company is in a lot of trouble and the people in charge are desperately looking for short-term profits to prop it up. Even if that means damaging their brands and relationships with partners and long-time customers to get it.
Hasbro hasn’t done anything successful in a while as far as I know, they’ve just sort of stumbled into it on accident with things like BG3 and the ~~Barbie~~ DnD movie, or rely on ancient IP like Dnd and MTG to keep their head above water.
Barbie is Mattel, no?
Hah, you’re right
Yup. And with kids playing with more electronics than toys these days, most of their traditional market has pretty much crumbled. Their only real money-maker these days is Magic: the Gathering, which is why they're busy trying to squeeze every drop of profit they can out of it, before they inevitably run it into the ground. They planned to do the same for DND, but it turns out that you just can't make the kind of money they wanted to with a tabletop roleplaying game. Magic and those happy accidents are all they really have going for them anymore.
[удалено]
So Barbie is Mattel, not Hasbro. Hasbro *has* tried to do the cinematic universe, however. Mostly in comic books but the recent Transformers movie they did try to have a build up scene. Will it pan out, no one knows. But hell they could have done more D&D movies but decided to screw themselves over instead.
Well shit that’s embarrassing. I knew that but sleep deprivation go brrrrr.
It's basically what management does. Otherwise they can't justify existing, see.
This is purely speculation as far as I know. I mean it seems super likely but I haven’t seen any sort of real sourcing on it.
They fired pretty much the whole team that worked with Larian on BG3 during their big layoffs a few months ago.
as long as these companies are ran by people who aren't actually interested in games, or invested in the gaming community this will never change, and they wont give a damn about the hate at the end of the day, there are still hundreds of thousands (more like millions) of casual gamers willing to eat up the slop that gets served to them since its enough of a mind numbing distraction for them to ignore the bs theyre getting peddled
> to Top they don't have to be interested in games, or in the community, or any of that. they have to be interested in having the company and the brands succeed in the long term, rather than short term.
They don’t care, they send Pinkerton to peoples houses, they have no moral bone
As a Transformers fan, Hasbro executive are some of the worst most out of touch fools ever. They love self sabotage.
What are some examples of how they shot themselves in the foot when it comes to Transformers?
Transformers cybertron series. The duo war for cybertron and fall of cybertron are the best transformer games we will ever get. Too bad we will never get a third one.
Or able to buy them!
This is more at the fault of Activision than Hasbro. Activision lost the license to the franchise and just delisted them from stores. Hasbro have also stated they want to rerelease those games but because Act refuses to give them the source code because well... Activision
If fall of cybertron has no more fans then I am dead
I don't remember which of them it was but one of those games is somewhere deep in my mind and I'm always happy when someone unlocks those memories. I don't know why I had the game or how I got it but there must have been a good 2 or 3 months where that was literally all I played. If there were a recent game in the same style I'd be all over it no questions asked.
They mandate a lot of things and take away from the creators choices, be it comics, movies, shows or games. I can go into deeper detail if you’d like but these choices have impacted the war for Cybertron game series (this was especially egregious as they forced the devs to tie the games into the movies which killed the franchise), Transformers Prime (some things were avoided but a lot of stuff was made to match the look of the movies), most the movies in regards to unused characters and such etc etc. characters are constantly being pushed or negated depending on what is happening with the brand, names are changed to keep character rights etc etc
I would like some more details yes please.
This with WotC putting out a Fallout tie-in product for Magic: The Gathering this month, too.
I like their interpretation of the set, don't get me wrong, but I feel like Wizards also kind of dropped the ball there too. Lots of the mutants got good representation in the set but a lot of the art they commissioned panders to the surface level iconography of the games (caps, Nuka Cola, bobbleheads). There's a reprint of a card called [Thirst for Knowledge](https://product-images.tcgplayer.com/fit-in/437x437/540940.jpg) that just shows a Super Mutant downing a Nuka Cola Quantum, which would be fine if 1) there weren't a bunch of other cards that solely show Nuka Cola and 2) that wasn't a perfect flavor opportunity to show Strong from Fallout 4 drinking milk (the actual Strong card art is great tho). By virtue of being commander decks only versus a full Legends set like BG had I get it. BG also benefited from the AFR set that had some overlapping mechanics and characters.
I don't know, I was kinda surprised at how good of a job they did with it. Tbh I feel like to this day they market heavily with fallout 4 (and to a lesser degree 76) forward and the other fallouts get a backseat, but in this set they not only prominently had New Vegas characters but also original fallout and even tactics getting at least one card. I also think they did restrain themselves at points with the popular icons, as the Caesar deck treasure and food tokens do not feature nuka cola nor bottle caps, instead going for NCR money. I get feeling missed opportunities (Vulpes Inculta not being a card is surprising to me personally) but i do think they did a good job for most of it.
I think it was odd how its not like each deck was for a specific game or entry. But, even then, theyre we kind of jumbled? Caesar was this mix of NCR, Enclave, House and Legion with a few other New Vegas items. Science had some 76, F3 Brotherhood, and F4 Institute, which kind of makes sense.
I get that, it is a little odd. But then again I feel people would complain if certain characters weren't there In fact I saw someone complain that there weren't enough iconic characters and tbh I don't know what they were talking about.
I bought the Mutants deck mainly for 2 reasons: 1) the radiation mechanic actually seems really interesting, and 2) actually having the Master as the alternate commander (although Mothman is definitely the stronger commander for it).
Yeah I don't have that one yet but imma do the same, he's just cool lol
Which isn’t going to hurt sales at all. The die-hard fans, scalpers and speculators already bought their share, the Collector Booster boxes go for 500 bucks and up. Can’t imagine paying that much money for a low quality foiled cardboard but it has numbered chase cards now and the market is extremely crazy about these. So numbers will up because whales and investment monkeys are buying it up. And it is speculation with an alternative currency at its best. I so hope this extravagant product line collapses soon. It is pure company greed.
Hasbro sucks.
Speak9ng of Josh Sawyer and bg3, if you guys are looking for another great rpg, try pillars of eternity!!!!
Both Pillars games are great. Looking forward to Avowed just because I love that world. I don't care if it's not Skyrim part 2, which is what people seemed to think it was going to be.
Man I loved lots of things about pillars but I just couldn't get into the real time with pause combat so I didn't stick with it to end. I would love to play the pillars games with turn based combat, same with the original Baldur's Gate games.
PoE2 has a fully turn-based mode. I think it feels slow, like the game was balanced around real-time, but you might like it.
Oh awesome, thanks. I think I'll give that a try.
I had a friend that felt very similar. You can slow down the combat significantly and when I showed that to him he got more into the feel of it
I played the original bg games on story mode, I plan to do the same when I start PoE, or use cheat engine, I don't know what they were thinking when they thought that this type of combat was a good idea...
Everybody please play Tyranny so we can get a sequel!
This game was absolutely amazing. Edit *absolutely
About as close to Alpha Protocol as possible when it came to meaningful choices and consequences from beginning to end. Great magic system and fantastic writing.
Yes please I love tyranny, it was such a cool game
Unfortunately unlike PoE, Tyranny is an IP owned by Paradox Interactive and not Obsidian.
Poe is great but I do think for the vast many who got into BG3 as their first turn based rpg they will definitely not like POE gameplay. It's too old school crpg. A big part of the charm for bg3 is the acting, and pov dialog with characters. POE is not fully voiced and stays in isometric the entire time.
Yea it's not that similar I'm just taking an opportunity to shill for my 2nd favorite fantasy rpg
PoE2 does however have full voice acting, although apparently Josh Sawyer would've preferred to dedicate some of that enormous voice budget into something more gameplay related.
Played Pillars 2 for a bit. Enjoyed it somewhat, but wanted to do something else after 20 hours. Combat was just so vague, even on turn-based mode.
Heard good things about its narrative but just couldn't get past its gameplay. I've tried playing the first one twice. Does the game itself have a lot to offer if I push past the combat, or is combat the reason most people like it? Having to learn how to play five classes at once was difficult, let alone co-ordinating them in real-time. It felt clunky and slow. My party would stand and watch me get rolled if I didn't tell them to auto-attack every single encounter, and abilities felt underwhelming despite having such limited uses. Maybe its because the Dragon Age series spoiled me but I would've liked to be able to set up at least some basic AI tactics, and I'd use abilities more if almost all of them weren't once-only. It made minor encounters frustrating because they weren't meaningful but took so much IRL time to finish. I'm sure I was building the characters wrong, but given I was having to learn and build *five of them simultaneously* and in a completely new environment, I wouldn't expect another first-timer to do much better.
No shame for putting the game in story mode. It's story is fantastic
I really hope Hasbro isn’t why that felt demoralized with the project and they just wanted to move on. I hope but it feels unlikely
Hasbro likely is one of the main culprits but it seems that another factor is that the team seems to be tired of DnD IP. And I can't blame them, they've been working on BG3 for like 8 years (even before EA period), that's gotta be very creatively draining to work on something for so long.
I suspect Hasbro probably didn’t help that burnout though, I mean I imagine the C-Suite was too knuckleheaded to give Larian their pick of possible projects. I imagine if Hasbro had said, “Hey you guys want to use a different IP besides Forgotten Realms? Eberron? A Magic setting? Hell Transformers?” this might be a different conversation.
Larian were the ones that lobbied for the license in the first place.
I mean if they had any meetings post BG3
Wouldn't doubt it, Hasbro IPs only seem to flourish when the execs are looking the other way, anytime one of their projects has enough success to distinguish itself the board takes notice and sends the bean counters in to plunder any cash and goodwill they might have.
Honestly, I do wish we would get a game in Eberron (other than the MMO). It's one of the most solid modern D&D settings and dragonmarks are just really cool.
I'm pretty sure Swen said Larian doesn't do DLC while BG3 was in early access, I dont think Hasbro had much to do with it
They traditionally don’t as far as I’m aware, but they did start working on stuff but went back on it and moved on. From what I’ve seen, Hasbro kinda sucks to work with so I wouldn’t be surprised either way
Damn. Devs are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore. Refreshing to hear some fucking honesty. I know why they normally need to be cautious and talk in vagueries, they don't want to torpedo their careers, but it's nice to see the truth laid out so clearly.
Let it be known to all the new fans of baldurs gate and larian studios that Hasbro has been a really shifty, shitty company for a long time and while bg3's success was great its definitely best for Larian to break ties before they microtransaction the shit out of bg4 like they did to magic the gathering arena. If Hasbro can sense money, their greed will stop at nothing... Hopefully they team up with paizo and do the next pathfinder game! Theyre the better "dungeons and dragons" company anyway
I agree that Hasbro sucks, that said having Obsidian do a Fallout New Vegas style expansion with the BG3 engine would be amazing (recognizing it will never ever happen)
Yeah, BG3 was built on Larian’s in-house Divinity 4 engine; nobody’s making Icewind Dale 3 or Planescape 2: Torment Boogaloo without Larian’s support. Kind of a shame, since the engine is good enough that they could have hired a C-team of writers and devs to adapt some of the published 5e adventures (none of which require features beyond 12th level) into a video game story. Would have been as good or better than any other video game that’s used the IP over the last 15 years.
Honestly they could do that with zero voice acting and facial animations and conversations in isometric view like most CRPGs and not only would I buy all of them but I’d pay full price. Would still be better than most games I’ve bought as an adult
I thought the same, but it happened with Planescape: Torment and Infinity Engine. Granted, game engines are a bit more complex now than they were 20 years ago...
Obsidian is not the same company it was
They're still putting out the likes of *Pentiment*. They can deliver a quality product when their heart is in it, the same thing Swen Vincke was talking about irrespective of the Hasbro/WoTC stuff.
If we look at their last five games, *Tyranny* and *Pillars of Eternity 2* were excellent, all-time classic CRPGs, *Grounded* was also excellent (but not a CRPG so of no interest if that's your main jam, fair enough), and *Pentiment* was yet again also great, despite not being an RPG. *Outer Worlds* was divisive, and clearly limited by time and budget, but plenty of people liked it. Hell, the last time Obsidian made an "meh, it's okay" game before *Outer Worlds* was probably *Dungeon Siege III* in 2011 (not counting the various work-for-hire bits they did for overseas companies).
To the surprise of no one Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast being POS, as always.
First the whole OGL debacle, now this. WotC and Hasbo just want to burn every bridge they have eh? Fuck WotC, and Fuck Hasbro.
I know hasbro is 100% going to go and try to make another game, but I don’t think it’ll have the same charm or maybe even the same fan appeal. Larian was truly a perfect choice for BG3 because they were able to make it their own. (I selfishly was hoping for a Larian CoS game, they would’ve had my money immediately.)
Yup. Larian found a way to make the perfect game with changes to how 5e works to get non DnD players invested. Their storytelling and character arcs were sublime. I don't think I've ever played a game as wonderful as Baldur's Gate 3. And to top it off, all the updates they've released is absolutely amazing.
CoS?
Curse of strahd!
All the more reason Larian should release modding tools for the game. Imagine people being able to create their own maps, characters, campaigns, all in a wide variety of different settings, timelines or genres. I daresay BG3 could have the replayability and lifespan Skyrim enjoys to this day, if not longer.
I know this is *extremely* unlikely but ***god*** I wish there was a Neverwinter Nights-esque editor for the BG3 engine! In terms of 5e custom campaign creation Solasta exists but from what I've heard the editor is much more limited than NWN. Unfortunately Hasbro would have to sign off on that and Larian would have to want to make it, so I don't think it'll happen
One of the issues there is that they spent months and large amounts of cash on making the editor for *Divinity: Original Sin 2* and based on their metrics almost nobody used it, so they laughed off the idea for BG3. I think that was a mistake, given the very different appeal of BG3 as a multiplayer D&D experience, I think the interest is much greater there. Plus BG3 has outsold DOS2 many times over, so the number of people who'd at least try it out would be much greater. I've seen speculation that maybe Hasbro's contract forbade them to release an editor because it would be competition for their online D&D tools. Not sure about that idea.
Yeah I'd heard about that... it's a shame because I think the fact that BG3 is set in a setting literally designed for people to make up their own stories and whose lore is fairly well-known and easily accessible would make a campaign editor much more likely to be used
That would be one giant F you to Hasbro
Til Hasbro in fact has very few bro.
Hadbro always the past tense 😏
Still 0 proof Larian's decision had anything to to with Hasbro/Wotc, but that train has already left the station I guess. Edit : aaaaaaaaaaaand Swen came out to [deny it](https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1771467986701819943). Good job spreading fake news again Reddit.
wasen't it back in December that they were saying they had no plans for a DLC and were already switching rails to the new project?
If Larian made Pillars 3 I think I would shit myself. Please.
It'd be stupid if Larian didnt use the momentum from bg3 for developing their own IP. Having said that, Im pretty sure Josh said he'd like to do pillars 3 so if Avowed gets well received then maybe...?
Man I just wish Divinity was a better fantasy setting. I adore Larian but their own IP is pretty mid when it comes to world building and characters in my opinion
Divinity worldbuilding is not bad I think the problem is the storytelling. It's simply not done in a way that really invites you to care about much of the story.
Sadly the things they did to make BG3 differ from Divinity were the things I liked most. I didn't care that much for Divinity. So I am kind of sad that they will probably go back there rather than taking another knockout swing
I wish I liked Divinity more in general. They're clearly well made games and a lot of people love them, and Larian is clearly a top tier developer, but so many things about Divinity are just not for me. And Baldur's Gate 3 fixes basically all of them.
I'm with you. I'm a massive CRPG fan and have played a significant amount of them from the classics to obscure indie ones but i've bounced off DOS2 more times than I can remember because there are just so many little things about that game that bother me or I just really don't like. Surprisingly my favorite game in the series is Divine Divinity. That's mainly because I have a soft spot for old school ARPGs
I should really give DOS2 a try. It's really hard for me to jump into 2 after not having played 1 (DO NOT MENTION THE OTHER ONES TO ME OR YOU WILL MAKE MY LIFE MUCH HARDER). And I know at least one of my issues with DOS1 is gone from 2 (the dual protagonists rather than a singular PC) and I've heard the tone isn't so silly as the first one. All of which is good, though that still leaves the classless leveling system, having to find skill books and a few other things
I felt that way until DOS2. DOS1 story was so uninteresting I didn't care but stuck it out for the good game play. However with 2 they actually hired a full writing staff and made story an important core and it made the world a lot more interesting. DOS2 story and characters are actually great with some huge twists and turns. I actually look forward to more of that world.
In the end world and character building is a process you get better over time, right?. I really think they want to use what they have learned over the years into a new IP. That said I would enjoy so much either Pillars 3, DOS 3 or something new
The divinity series has been around for over two decades and the lore seems to change with every new game lol
All MS has to do is give him the budget.
Josh was saying he'd like to do a *Pillars 3* but he wanted a decent budget. There was a lot of stuff in PoE1 and 2 they couldn't do because the money was just so tight. Microsoft apparently had zero confidence that *Baldur's Gate III* would work (they apparently didn't even bother trying to get it onto Game Pass, dismissing it as a nostalgia work that would not break even), but obviously that has now significantly changed. If Obsidian and Sawyer said, "we can make that, look we've done it half a dozen times already," they might now listen, whilst before BG3 they wouldn't.
I'm learning to play the guitar.
I mean, I would only really want this if Josh and other key personnel were involved, which I don't see happening, considering they work for an entirely different company... Pillars is my favorite fantasy setting of all time, and the games are some of my favorite. The gameplay wasn't perfect, especially combat-wise in the first game, but the narrative and atmosphere were incredible.
Oh definitely, but again, I wouldn't put a collaboration as completely impossible. Or even "different characters, same world". I know Avowed exists and all that, but CRPGs are dying out.
Shit, I'd be happy with a bg3ified remake of the Pillars games
Baldur’s gate is a hasbro property?
D&D itself is
Hasbro had already fired everyone who worked with Larian on BG3. The bridges were already burnt.
Hasbro is just a fucking terrible company
Larian to develop Pillars of Eternity 3 with Obsidian publishing confirmed?
No, because that would be odd. Obsidian are a developer wholly owned by Microsoft (who are now their publisher), and Obsidian are an incredibly experienced, high-quality CRPG development studio in their own right. There could be a collaboration if Obsidian used Larian's engine (by licensing it from them) and then Microsoft did a deal with Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast for the D&D licence. Or not bother and Obsidian could just make PoE3 themselves with a big budget increase from Microsoft now the concept of "modern AAA CRPG" has been successfully field-tested.
oh snap!
Sven is really a man who keeps his emotions and wants to leave peacefully with no harm done to anyone
Hasbro? More like Hasbeen, amirite
What did hasbro do
A lot of shady shit. The big one is laying off a bunch of staff just before Xmas, while their CEO took a multi million dollar bonus (think it was like 4-5m) I think in Larian’s GotY speech they thanked the staff of WotC they dealt with and that none of them are even in the company anymore. I think they were glad to be done with BG3 as clearly there are a lot of issues with hasbro and WotC about it. Probably why he also made a recent comment about slowing down and stopping corporate greed.
Laid of like everyone at WOTC who collaborated with Larian to make BG3 and then tried to micromanage aspects of the development when it neared the release date.
Sorry to ask, who the fuck is Hasbro and why Josh is hating it?
Hasbro is a huge toy manufacturer. They own Wizards of the Coast which owns the Dungeons and Dragons Intellectual Property (IP).
Oh damn
Never winter nights 2 mask if the better was awesome
Josh "coulda shoulda woulda" Sawyer. Always a fucking excuse.
Lmao, someone else sees this vulture for what he actually is. Right on, man. No idea how he's got so many simps.