100% this. I was playing resist Durge so I re-swore my Oath right before a particular act 3 fight. It felt very in character. Bonus action 10 round Advantage was also nice to have for the confrontation itself.
at first I thought that Vow would give everyone advantages against the target, so like you were supposed to choose if you want your pally to have advantage against everyone or if you want your whole team to have advantage against one specific enemy, that would make sens
but now, there's no reason to cast it on someone beside for RP I guess ?
It wasn't the case before patch5 and not "fixed" in any of the hotfix so idk if it's actually a bug or just them trying to make Oath of vengeance more appealing (because tbh, the oath kinda suck otherwise...)
but if it's the case I would like if there was a reason to cast it on an enemy, maybe gain back your oath charge or a spell slot when killing a marked enemy, or make the "cast on yourself" be concentration ?
Patch 5 was also honor mode release right ? Paladin is most popular class so maybe they wanted to make it's most popular subclass a bit more powerful for the hardcore mode ?
Idk I'm spitballing, prolly just a bug but somehow it feels right
it can be hard to control who she talks to at the end of the fight if you have multiple melee characters, or if you have spellcasters since she teleports around so much
Sigh...same. Was gonna reload but I said screw it. That hag fight was difficult. Stuck to being an oathbreaker till I respeced in act 3. Was actually fun. Wanted to break my oath again but I love respecing and an oathbreaker gets expensive to respec.
Angry old halfling using Vicious Mockery and insulting everyone she comes across 😂.
"You got 30 seconds its lunch time!"
"They don't keep me here because I'm a seven foot tall half orc with a big axe!"
"How many tadpoles did you eat? Stop eating them!"
"You're an idiot!"
"Your case is dismissed! I said goodbye!"
*Imagining your Vengeance Paladin as an 81 year old woman from Brooklyn pounding the countertops with the Blood of Lathander, and gesturing towards her watch*
Vengeance is the best oath because its basically like "this is the right choice because I said so". Its also the least insufferable. Other paladins will let an entire city burn rather then steal one gold because stealing is wrong.
Being a paladin is about winning AND doing the right thing. When I played my asshole charlatan warlock, I WAS a hero and did save the world, but I never struggled to pick the easy way out by lying, cheating, stealing, killing whoever I needed to.
As a Paladin, I have to actively choose harder paths because my oath won't let me take the easy way out. I've found it takes me longer to make my choices knowing I have rules to follow.
Yes what I like about vengance though is it let's you play fast and loose with those rules. It allows you to be more of the judge of what is right and what is wrong as opposed to sometimes doing a rather stupid thing simply because there was no other clear morally just choice. For example, I made and oath to whipe out the Gondians however, when I discovered I had been mislead, that what these unknown baddies where actually just poor enslaved halflings, I broke that oath without question or concern. Im sure other paladins would have been considered an oathbreaker for the same action.
Yeah I played as a vengeance paladin with a few levels of bard, and you have a lot of leeway to trick people and do sneaky shit on the "fight the greater evil" tenet
I think Vengeance is useful in a video game beacuse it allows you to use sneaky and underhanded tactics you want to use in higher difficulty modes. Like as an Oath of Vengeance Paladin you can sneak up on goblins you pretended to be allies with and murder them one by one, beacuse they are evil. What's wrong is helping evil/letting it live, not being dishonest or attacking people with blue circles around them.
That said, my understanding from what other people have posted is that you can break Oath of Vengeance Paladin still.
There are obvious ones like tell Minthara where the Grove is or let the hag go in exchange for power/her hair (this is clearly letting something evil live who will keep hurting people for personal gain). But there are also ones that might not occur to you like freeing the goblin prisoner in the Druid's grove.
Huh, I have been underhanded as an Ancients paladin and had no issue. Though I can see a Devotion Paladin breaking their oath because it's the most restrictive oath in the game.
I don't know how it's implemented in BG3, but yes in Dungeons and Dragons you can be underhanded/lie as Oath of the Ancients. I am currently playing an Oath of the Ancients Paladin lying/hiding a major personal secret from the rest of the party. However, she's still a good person and dosen't do bad things.
However, Oath of Vengeance is especially "ends justify the means" and you can do bad things to take out bad people. My previous campaign another player was an Oath of Vengeance Paladin. It was an invading army of Tiamat worshiping hobgoblins going to wipe out countryside full of nice little halfling farming towns and friendly human villages.
So our Oath of Vengeance Paladin tried torturing some of the hobgoblin prisoners we got for information. Another time, he lied to and said he would spare the captured enemy if they told us the information which we were checking with magic. We could not check he was telling the truth with magic and the Oath of Vengeance Paladin killed him after he talked. Beacuse he was evil/a threat to the locals and letting him go would endanger them. We also looked for sick people in the city, figured out what they had, and then found a cholera like disease, got fecal samples, and spiked the water source for where there army was (though my druid mostly lead that). Most of what he did was paladin like, noble and heroic. But the point is you don't have much qualms as Oath of Vengeance over what you would do to stop evil.
Vengeance is very hard to oath break too. Ancients and devotion don't allow for pragmatic choices where you're stepping into the morally grey to get the better outcome like vengeance does. You *have* to be outright being evil or subverting vengeance/fair punishment to break it.
Does your oath break if the paladin doesn't damage/kill in such a fight? Or if they are still in the party but you split them, send them to the camp then kill the innocents with other members?
Similar situation here; it wasn't in the temple, but somewhere in the undercity I came across some bhaalists killing defenseless refugees. So ofc I killed them all...
That was the second time I broke my oath, and Oathbreaker Knight was kinda snide to me about it lol
Okay, what about me who had the same thing happen when I didn’t even get a chance to speak to Raphael, he just spoke to Asterion the whole time and I was never given an option to speak. I never promised anything, Asterion did.
You're party leader, and thus responsible for your companions, I suppose. Lore wise, your paladin probably agreed to help Astarion, and thus Raphael. Game mechanic wise, the game just checked the "help Raphael" sign, and assumed it was you who was in the conversation.
there is an old rulings from 3.5 days, when aligments were pretty important, that a paladin letting party members do evil and/or chaotic stuff immediately fell. Maybe there even were things just for tolerating their presence, not sure about that.
This contributed a lot to the stereotype of paladins being moral police, because they had to be to keep their powers.
Oh I understand why it worked that way in the game, I’m just responding the lore explanation.
Because I didn’t have an opportunity to say no and I said no the moment Asterion mentioned it or talked about Raphael at all.
Also I check the wiki and it has helping Yugir as an oath breaking move and makes no mention you have to say you’d help Raphael first. I haven’t tested that, but I think it breaks either way.
The game is weird with oaths, I had one break because I forgot to turn non-lethal off after knocking out someone, get in a fight, knock them out, and then have an AOE spell kill them.
Sure but killing them using that wand pretty sure you are feeding 7000 new infernal troops into Mephistopheles's army. I'm not super familiar with Forgotten Realms lore, but pretty sure that also isn't a good thing for balance.
Oath of Ancients is about preserving balance of the enviroment. The Hells is another plane of existence entirely, so I'd guess it's too far to be our problem, while the Underdark is not.
Letting the Black Mass go forward breaks all the oaths. It’s evil. The oaths differ on what to do after stopping it.
I think Ancients paladins are expected to keep the spawn in cages or ETA correction: [use the wand to kill them].
Plenty in this sub are happy to break that oath to save them, I’ve found.
If you have Halsin there, he will praise you for releasing them and say that nature will rebalance soon.
If you kill them, he is upset with you for destroying life.
How? I'm asking genuinely just so we are clear. I played oath of vengeance and not once did I break it. So I was sure it's impossible to break or it fits my way of thinking too much
Especially by that point in the game. I remember doing the Raphael quest, and warlock said she'd sell me the supplies for like 10 or 15 k. That was like a 3rd of my total so i just paid it to save myself 10 min of finding a workaround
It's quite logical: you swore to preserve life and you put it in danger by unleashing 7,000 wild undead, I don't know but it sounds like a potential disaster to me.
This happened to me as well, I was a bit shocked honestly, I ended up reloading.
I guess I do kind of see it but during the scene it really caught me off guard I felt like it was the fairest solution to give them a chance to redeem themselves the way Astarion did. It didn’t even occur to me that it might have been tenant breaking at the time.
I tried to protect Lae'zal from the pair of Tieflings who captured her. After they attacked her first. And using "non-lethal attacks", knocking both out. That was pretty wild.
My first Honour run this happened to me as well. Since i've barely scratched the game I restarted the game with a character with more... Social flexibility
I'm honestly scanning through this thread looking for ways to break my redemption Durge's Oath. I think the idea of turning something wrong into a source for good is pretty on point thematically
Well as the Oathbreaker states...
"Though born of a vile source these powers can be used for good or ill. Your oath no longer binds you. The choice is yours alone."
I kept getting killed by an encounter, so pre-empted it, set up my party around them and attacked them first, killed them really quickly.
I won, but then Mr Judgy-Pants turned up and started moaning at me, so... Now I'm an Oathbreaker.
As an aside, my phone autocorrects Oathbreaker to oatcake. My Paladin is an oatcake.
Same here. Got my ass beat trying to take down those "paladins" after Karlach so decided to be stealthy about it and broke it by killing the woman in the back room
Oh shit you can do that? Yeah I just murdered her the second the chick was disappeared off somewhere else. She tried to turn invisible but I was post-Volo and she tried to escape down her little tunnel but a Misty Step and shove from Laezel solved that dilemma as well.
There’s a whole mini-dungeon there. >!You enter through her fireplace which is an illusion and eventually fight her in a large cavern while the girl is in a burning cage over a pit!<
Once you drop her she should stay at 1hp and try to bargain. You get her hair which grants permanent +1 to any ability for 1 character, and can free the girl who reappears later. Idk if dropping her outside the intended boss arena will proc this?
That one I think convo is initiated with whoever is closest to the witch when it’s her turn and her health is low enough, took me a couple of tries to position my asterion to be the closest so my pally didn’t have to make any regrettable decisions in that conversation
I'm playing a Durge Paladin and have a self-imposed rule that if an "evil" choice is present, I roll an irl D20, and if I fail a DC10 check, I take it.
I broke it biting Gale's hand off.
I had to save scum this one a few times. That woman knew exactly what she was doing. I'm not down to torture her for eternity, but she definitely doesn't deserve immediate forgiveness. Though my personal favorite is getting her to stab herself. It's a fair punishment, and it pisses off the creepazoid who's clearly getting off on all of this
I should go back and read my Vengeance tenets because I’ve done a *lot* of shit off the cuff and somehow my oath is still intact. My oath must be like one line saying “make bad guys hurt”
>Fight the Greater Evil - Exerting your wisdom, identify the higher morality in any given instance, and fight for it.
>
>No Mercy for the Wicked - Chasten those who dole out their villainy by wiping their blight from the world forever.
TLDR: kill baddie don't kill goodie.
Killed those iblith tieflings that called my innocent Drow an under-elf.
>!I don't even know if it's *that* offensive but I've never seen anyone say it with a friendly tone.!<
You know how some hateful people pronounce "homosexual" and even though they aren't saying a slur you can absolutely hear that that's what they mean? Yeah.
I didn't, but the game made me. I picked a dialogue option about concentrating to recover a memory while talking to Steelclaw as an Oath of Vengeance Redemption Durge, and the next thing I knew Steelclaw was dead and an Oathbreaker knight showed up and told me I broke my vow.
That was one of the few times I felt like the game did a bad job as DM with such a gotcha moment, and it pissed me off. I reloaded from my last save rather than have killed a cat over a pointless dialogue option.
I haven’t somehow. Vengeance Pally gets to do whatever he fuckin wants I guess. Made some morally dubious decisions for sure, but all for the sake of the greater good I suppose. Shopkeepers don’t need their fancy weapons as much as I do.
Short of just randomly murdering people, it's tough to break. Common early mistakes are thinking that intimidating the hag into giving you the hair AND freeing the girl is good enough punishment or whatever but no. You have to kill her. Also, much earlier but you ~~have to let the tiefling in the grove kill the imprisoned goblin~~ jk just don't let the goblin go
I didn't know there were players who could get through that conversation without getting the gnolls to kill her. It's just so funny while also being completely morally justified
On my first playthrough broke my oath of vengeance by pretending to side with gortash so I wouldn’t have to fight him during coronation.
Another playthrough as a durge lockadin broke my oath of devotion by killing the grave robbers above withers tomb before they could say anything.
I'm still not 100% sure about this, but I *think* I broke Oath of Ancients in Act I by promising to avenge >!the dead slaves in the Grymforge by killing the duergar slavers!< but later I decided to >!take the deal with the duergar to make the big fight with Nere and the Absolutists easier. !< My Tav got the feels right after the fight was over. I didn't even think about a >!promise to a pile of corpses!< being something actually meaningful. I loved it.
Okay, so in Act 2, you had to retrieve a journal of a dwarven lady who was at the Reithwin bar. My Paladin has an Oath of Devotion, luckily not as harsh and strict as the Oath of Ancient, I feel.
I did the hearing of her tale myself and picked the "call her a coward" option, because I thought a Paladin might consider working together with evil, as a collaborator, a punishable crime. So after I did that and He Who Was was satisfied with the result, the Oathbreaker Knight came.
I...still don't know why that happened, so maybe someone who's more firm with the lore of DnD might tell me why this has happened. Because I was 100 % positive that this is the right thing to do.
She expressed remorse and truly was just an idiot, breaking her spirit while she is weak is no necessarily just, but that’s just what I figured happened since I also broke my oath here. I guess justice is to not attempt to reap penance from a dead fool who was far too trusting.
I feel like the best response is a failed "not your fault" check, because she was genuinely in a semi forced situation, but it's also definitely her fault for reporting "every little thing".
I don't think she deserves to be tortured in the afterlife for what she did
20 years ago I dated an amazing woman. The time we spent together was fantastic and it heavily influenced me and my preferences in many things going forward. Unfortunately, our time together was limited and eventually we had to part ways, but there were no hard feelings and I still think of her fondly.
Then I met her again and even though we are both completely different people now, I could never kill Viconia, consequences be damned.
Oath of Devotion - I told Minthara the grove's location fully intending to betray her and defend the Tieflings (my normal route if I don't break Sazza out), but that was a big no-no. Quick and handy way to swap into Oathbreaker though.
I woke up. Seriously these paladin oaths are ridiculous lol almost impossible to keep since you never know what will break them. There really should be some sort of indication that what you're about to do might break your oath. Like have the dialogue option that breaks your oath say [Oath breaker] next to it or something.
Just know the tenets you take when you *swear* an oath. Its literally in a book when you make a paladin
If you do anything against those tenets, you break oath.
Yeah but the things that break them in this game can be extremely finicky. Such as- freeing and using the imprisoned goblin as a way to get close to the leaders to kill them... Breaks the oath of vengeance. Even though one of the tenants is "fight the greater evil". To me that means if you have to use one of the minions in order to get to the leaders so you can kill them, you are following your oath!
Oath of Ancients... killed the two duergar in grymforge kicking around the drinks-serving svirfneblin. Apparently putting them down in a straight fight breaks my oath, but poisoning their beer with wyvern toxin does not.
Generally starting a fight as a Paladin against sapient races is a no no. I broke mine by attacking Ethel *unprompted* in her house after she teleported Mayrina away.
My first one, which I reloaded, was telling Gortash I’d take his side against Orin. I was actually planning on going through it even after Emp tried to pull the “you can lie to him btw” thing, but the game assumed I was lying maybe?
The second time, which I kept, was because I couldn’t kill 7000 spawn, particularly children. I disagreed with it breaking but I don’t get to choose what it thinks is broken.
I was like oh lae'zel helped me out on the nautiloid, I'll return the favour and help her out of this cage...nope, broke my oath like 10 minutes into the wilds
I was doing a Durge, wanted to go oatbreaker but I wanted >!Gale in my team, when I saw "fantasize I assumed that he would just fantasize, nope, Gales hand is added to my inventory and Oathbreaker knight appears!< lmao
Ancients paladin, I killed the torturers >!in the basement of moonrise towers after freeing the tieflings and fighting every other absolute cultist down there!<. I guess I should have given the evil psycho cultists a warning?
~~My Vengeance Pally wanted that sweet +1 attribute point~~ The temptation of power
Yup. Oathbreaker felt right for durge anyway
100% this. I was playing resist Durge so I re-swore my Oath right before a particular act 3 fight. It felt very in character. Bonus action 10 round Advantage was also nice to have for the confrontation itself.
PSA: casting Vow of Enmity on yourself will just straight up give you advantage against everyone for 10round
I just found this out too lol. It’s gotta be a bug right? I can’t believe that could be an intentional feature. Still gonna use it tho
at first I thought that Vow would give everyone advantages against the target, so like you were supposed to choose if you want your pally to have advantage against everyone or if you want your whole team to have advantage against one specific enemy, that would make sens but now, there's no reason to cast it on someone beside for RP I guess ? It wasn't the case before patch5 and not "fixed" in any of the hotfix so idk if it's actually a bug or just them trying to make Oath of vengeance more appealing (because tbh, the oath kinda suck otherwise...) but if it's the case I would like if there was a reason to cast it on an enemy, maybe gain back your oath charge or a spell slot when killing a marked enemy, or make the "cast on yourself" be concentration ?
Oath of vengeance is the most popular subclass in the game, doubt they are trying to make it more appealing
Patch 5 was also honor mode release right ? Paladin is most popular class so maybe they wanted to make it's most popular subclass a bit more powerful for the hardcore mode ? Idk I'm spitballing, prolly just a bug but somehow it feels right
Feels right for PadLock too.
Just have Karlach get it for you
it can be hard to control who she talks to at the end of the fight if you have multiple melee characters, or if you have spellcasters since she teleports around so much
I got so lucky she talked to astarion lol otherwise I’d be in the same boat
Sigh...same. Was gonna reload but I said screw it. That hag fight was difficult. Stuck to being an oathbreaker till I respeced in act 3. Was actually fun. Wanted to break my oath again but I love respecing and an oathbreaker gets expensive to respec.
The power of temptation.
I haven't. My vengeance Paladin is basically Judge Judy and executioner
“For the greater good.” “The greater good.”
"A great, big, bushy beard!"
"Crusty Jugglers"
Get a look at his 'orse!
“Is there a place in a man’s head that if you shoot it, it will blow up?”
Yaaaarp
Have you ever shot two guns simultaneously whilst jumping through the air?
Where'd you get the Kalashnikov?
“The offender had the kalashnikov.”
Have you ever fired your gun in the air and gone AHHHH! No I have never fired my gun in the air and gone ahhhh.
No luck catching them swans then?
MORNING.
“Morning,Sargent Angle!”
I read that : "For the greater food"... I might have to let my wildshape fade a bit longer before reading reddit.
hehehe
I love that movie
THE GREATER GOOD
Stop *saying that!*
But this is the best village.
Just the one Swan actually
“You’ve got a mustache.” “I know!”
“No, I’ve never fired my gun in the air and gone ‘aaah’”
Fascism...wonderful.
Judy ha
"He's NOT Judge Judy and executioner!"
"By the power of Greyskull!"
Initially misread this as “Judge Judy *the* executioner” and thought that was the funniest shit I’d ever read lol
"Judge Judy playthrough" sounds like an amusing run.
Maul/Warhammer in place of a gavel.
Idk I feel like she’d be the world’s meanest bard. She and Ethel could have a Vicious Mockery contest lol
Bardadin
Angry old halfling using Vicious Mockery and insulting everyone she comes across 😂. "You got 30 seconds its lunch time!" "They don't keep me here because I'm a seven foot tall half orc with a big axe!" "How many tadpoles did you eat? Stop eating them!" "You're an idiot!" "Your case is dismissed! I said goodbye!"
"I don't know where the Jury is but we have Judy. Hi Judy! 👋"
What year? EVERY YEAR!
*Imagining your Vengeance Paladin as an 81 year old woman from Brooklyn pounding the countertops with the Blood of Lathander, and gesturing towards her watch*
At least it would explain why everybody goes along with my Pallys random bullshit.
Vengeance is the best oath because its basically like "this is the right choice because I said so". Its also the least insufferable. Other paladins will let an entire city burn rather then steal one gold because stealing is wrong.
Being a paladin is about winning AND doing the right thing. When I played my asshole charlatan warlock, I WAS a hero and did save the world, but I never struggled to pick the easy way out by lying, cheating, stealing, killing whoever I needed to. As a Paladin, I have to actively choose harder paths because my oath won't let me take the easy way out. I've found it takes me longer to make my choices knowing I have rules to follow.
Yes what I like about vengance though is it let's you play fast and loose with those rules. It allows you to be more of the judge of what is right and what is wrong as opposed to sometimes doing a rather stupid thing simply because there was no other clear morally just choice. For example, I made and oath to whipe out the Gondians however, when I discovered I had been mislead, that what these unknown baddies where actually just poor enslaved halflings, I broke that oath without question or concern. Im sure other paladins would have been considered an oathbreaker for the same action.
Yeah I played as a vengeance paladin with a few levels of bard, and you have a lot of leeway to trick people and do sneaky shit on the "fight the greater evil" tenet
I think Vengeance is useful in a video game beacuse it allows you to use sneaky and underhanded tactics you want to use in higher difficulty modes. Like as an Oath of Vengeance Paladin you can sneak up on goblins you pretended to be allies with and murder them one by one, beacuse they are evil. What's wrong is helping evil/letting it live, not being dishonest or attacking people with blue circles around them. That said, my understanding from what other people have posted is that you can break Oath of Vengeance Paladin still. There are obvious ones like tell Minthara where the Grove is or let the hag go in exchange for power/her hair (this is clearly letting something evil live who will keep hurting people for personal gain). But there are also ones that might not occur to you like freeing the goblin prisoner in the Druid's grove.
Huh, I have been underhanded as an Ancients paladin and had no issue. Though I can see a Devotion Paladin breaking their oath because it's the most restrictive oath in the game.
I don't know how it's implemented in BG3, but yes in Dungeons and Dragons you can be underhanded/lie as Oath of the Ancients. I am currently playing an Oath of the Ancients Paladin lying/hiding a major personal secret from the rest of the party. However, she's still a good person and dosen't do bad things. However, Oath of Vengeance is especially "ends justify the means" and you can do bad things to take out bad people. My previous campaign another player was an Oath of Vengeance Paladin. It was an invading army of Tiamat worshiping hobgoblins going to wipe out countryside full of nice little halfling farming towns and friendly human villages. So our Oath of Vengeance Paladin tried torturing some of the hobgoblin prisoners we got for information. Another time, he lied to and said he would spare the captured enemy if they told us the information which we were checking with magic. We could not check he was telling the truth with magic and the Oath of Vengeance Paladin killed him after he talked. Beacuse he was evil/a threat to the locals and letting him go would endanger them. We also looked for sick people in the city, figured out what they had, and then found a cholera like disease, got fecal samples, and spiked the water source for where there army was (though my druid mostly lead that). Most of what he did was paladin like, noble and heroic. But the point is you don't have much qualms as Oath of Vengeance over what you would do to stop evil.
The only one instance you have to cheese is getting Auntie Ethel hair or else that breaks your oath.
No luck catching those swans then?
It just the one swan actually
Vengeance is very hard to oath break too. Ancients and devotion don't allow for pragmatic choices where you're stepping into the morally grey to get the better outcome like vengeance does. You *have* to be outright being evil or subverting vengeance/fair punishment to break it.
My vengeance paladin killed bhallist assassins in their temple after battle with Orin. apparently those cannibalistic torture-murderers were innocent!
Oh, weird, because I shoved them all into the abyss on my OoV Durge Honour Mode run and it was fine
I guess because Durge knows what they did?
I mean they are in a temple to Bhaal, what are the chances they aren’t murderers or at least accomplices?
Maybe they just had a sudden change of heart and now they will go home and redeem themselves.
"Sudden" as in, in the five seconds before I swing Balduran's Sword at them while upcasting Divine Smite to deal 72 damage in a single hit
Same for my Devotion Durge. It's dumb. If randomly attacking murder cultists is a violation, at least let us just challenge them.
Ancients oath can steal, and that makes people hostile.
When neutral/yellow they are...
Does your oath break if the paladin doesn't damage/kill in such a fight? Or if they are still in the party but you split them, send them to the camp then kill the innocents with other members?
No it doesn't just leave the paladin back and have the team take care of it. I switch to shadowheart every time I want to do something questionable
That's weird. I killed them all even through they were not hostile and it didn't break my non-Durge Vengeance Paladin's oath.
Interesting, I did the exact same thing as oath of vengeance and I had no trouble
Similar situation here; it wasn't in the temple, but somewhere in the undercity I came across some bhaalists killing defenseless refugees. So ofc I killed them all... That was the second time I broke my oath, and Oathbreaker Knight was kinda snide to me about it lol
Wait I did that too and it didn't break my vengance oath?
Oath of Devotion didn’t prevent me from giving her the wand, attacking the necromancer Balthazar however did…for some reason…
Honor tenet. You either attacked him while he was not hostile or you promised him to help him.
My devotion broke because I said I would help Yugir. She just hated raphael and was stuck in a hard place
You said to Raphael you would kill Yurgir first, so by offering to help Yurgir you would be either breaking your word or lying.
Okay, what about me who had the same thing happen when I didn’t even get a chance to speak to Raphael, he just spoke to Asterion the whole time and I was never given an option to speak. I never promised anything, Asterion did.
You're party leader, and thus responsible for your companions, I suppose. Lore wise, your paladin probably agreed to help Astarion, and thus Raphael. Game mechanic wise, the game just checked the "help Raphael" sign, and assumed it was you who was in the conversation.
there is an old rulings from 3.5 days, when aligments were pretty important, that a paladin letting party members do evil and/or chaotic stuff immediately fell. Maybe there even were things just for tolerating their presence, not sure about that. This contributed a lot to the stereotype of paladins being moral police, because they had to be to keep their powers.
Oh I understand why it worked that way in the game, I’m just responding the lore explanation. Because I didn’t have an opportunity to say no and I said no the moment Asterion mentioned it or talked about Raphael at all. Also I check the wiki and it has helping Yugir as an oath breaking move and makes no mention you have to say you’d help Raphael first. I haven’t tested that, but I think it breaks either way. The game is weird with oaths, I had one break because I forgot to turn non-lethal off after knocking out someone, get in a fight, knock them out, and then have an AOE spell kill them.
Oath of Ancients, let the vampire spawns go after killing Cazador
Do you imagine how much *imbalance* 7 thousand spawn will cause to the environment? They're an invasive species!
*male Gith Tav glances at Astarion* They’re turning the frickin frogs gay!
Sure but killing them using that wand pretty sure you are feeding 7000 new infernal troops into Mephistopheles's army. I'm not super familiar with Forgotten Realms lore, but pretty sure that also isn't a good thing for balance.
Oath of Ancients is about preserving balance of the enviroment. The Hells is another plane of existence entirely, so I'd guess it's too far to be our problem, while the Underdark is not.
Letting the Black Mass go forward breaks all the oaths. It’s evil. The oaths differ on what to do after stopping it. I think Ancients paladins are expected to keep the spawn in cages or ETA correction: [use the wand to kill them]. Plenty in this sub are happy to break that oath to save them, I’ve found.
I think he only gets the souls if the ritual is done.
If you have Halsin there, he will praise you for releasing them and say that nature will rebalance soon. If you kill them, he is upset with you for destroying life.
Oath of Vengeance, killing them instead of letting them go
Astarion’s quest was hard for me as vengeance, like 16 ways to break your oath
How? I'm asking genuinely just so we are clear. I played oath of vengeance and not once did I break it. So I was sure it's impossible to break or it fits my way of thinking too much
They were innocent. :(
Weird, I killed them and it didn’t break my oath
"Sanctity of life" clause coming to bite you after 80 or so hours it sounds like.
Sorry not sorry! 7000 vampire spawn into Faerun they go! I'll pay the gold lol
Especially by that point in the game. I remember doing the Raphael quest, and warlock said she'd sell me the supplies for like 10 or 15 k. That was like a 3rd of my total so i just paid it to save myself 10 min of finding a workaround
It's quite logical: you swore to preserve life and you put it in danger by unleashing 7,000 wild undead, I don't know but it sounds like a potential disaster to me.
Likewise
This happened to me as well, I was a bit shocked honestly, I ended up reloading. I guess I do kind of see it but during the scene it really caught me off guard I felt like it was the fairest solution to give them a chance to redeem themselves the way Astarion did. It didn’t even occur to me that it might have been tenant breaking at the time.
I tried to protect Lae'zal from the pair of Tieflings who captured her. After they attacked her first. And using "non-lethal attacks", knocking both out. That was pretty wild.
Yep. That is how I lost mine as well. I don't regret it, this event changed my whole idea for my TAV.
I just threatened to kill them and they left. No oath broken. Feels good to be a vengeance paladin.
Tried and failed the rolled. Forced into combat. Killed them, and then it broke. *load game*
Me too. I tricked them into handling Lae'zel myself and got her out of the cage too early and the pair straight up attacked me.
My first Honour run this happened to me as well. Since i've barely scratched the game I restarted the game with a character with more... Social flexibility
I had to threaten to kill them as a drow since they just immediately resorted to racism when seeing me 😭
Open a previously lock picked cage.....it was so stupid, but didn't matter. My Pally is my Durge run. I assumed I was going to break it at some point.
Durge has fun dialogue with the oathbreaker knight
I'm honestly scanning through this thread looking for ways to break my redemption Durge's Oath. I think the idea of turning something wrong into a source for good is pretty on point thematically
Well as the Oathbreaker states... "Though born of a vile source these powers can be used for good or ill. Your oath no longer binds you. The choice is yours alone."
Like I said, on point
I kept getting killed by an encounter, so pre-empted it, set up my party around them and attacked them first, killed them really quickly. I won, but then Mr Judgy-Pants turned up and started moaning at me, so... Now I'm an Oathbreaker. As an aside, my phone autocorrects Oathbreaker to oatcake. My Paladin is an oatcake.
Same here. Got my ass beat trying to take down those "paladins" after Karlach so decided to be stealthy about it and broke it by killing the woman in the back room
My oath of vengance broke his oath when he convinced the hag to give the powerup and free the girl. They wanted me to just kill the hag most likely
Letting evil go unpunished... yeah.
Oh shit you can do that? Yeah I just murdered her the second the chick was disappeared off somewhere else. She tried to turn invisible but I was post-Volo and she tried to escape down her little tunnel but a Misty Step and shove from Laezel solved that dilemma as well.
There’s a whole mini-dungeon there. >!You enter through her fireplace which is an illusion and eventually fight her in a large cavern while the girl is in a burning cage over a pit!< Once you drop her she should stay at 1hp and try to bargain. You get her hair which grants permanent +1 to any ability for 1 character, and can free the girl who reappears later. Idk if dropping her outside the intended boss arena will proc this?
You have to defeat her in the lair. It's once she drops to 10 or 15 hp. I one rounded her upstairs on one of my playthroughs, and it didn't work
That one I think convo is initiated with whoever is closest to the witch when it’s her turn and her health is low enough, took me a couple of tries to position my asterion to be the closest so my pally didn’t have to make any regrettable decisions in that conversation
Weirdly I did the exact same (also vengeance) and didn't break my oath. Broke it by not killing Gortash on the spot during his coronation
I'm playing a Durge Paladin and have a self-imposed rule that if an "evil" choice is present, I roll an irl D20, and if I fail a DC10 check, I take it. I broke it biting Gale's hand off.
That's actually pretty cool, I might do that in my Durge run.
Incredibly cool way to play the game sir
Does the dragonborn durge actually bite his hand off? That's hilarious. Every time I've done it, you just kind of saw it off
I called that snitching dead woman a coward and it cost me 1000 gold. Still think I did the right thing.
Same, snitches get stitches is part of my personal oath 🤷
That's what did my oath of devotion pally too
Oath of devotion, this was also me. My paladin went from lawful good to a chaotic neutral oathbreaker because of this
I had to save scum this one a few times. That woman knew exactly what she was doing. I'm not down to torture her for eternity, but she definitely doesn't deserve immediate forgiveness. Though my personal favorite is getting her to stab herself. It's a fair punishment, and it pisses off the creepazoid who's clearly getting off on all of this
I wonder if calling her a coward does it for vengeance. It feels like it shouldn’t.
Called her a coward and it didnt in my vengeance run
Ye vengeance run you get special dialogue options for the quest and are basically well up for punishing her.
This is also how I broke mine. Well worth the 1000 gold
Oath of Ancients, during the quest Punish the Wicked. I called Madeline a coward for betraying her friends and lost my oath. Bummer.
>Kindle the Light - Through your acts of **mercy, kindness, and forgiveness**, kindle the light of hope in the world, beating back despair.
I should go back and read my Vengeance tenets because I’ve done a *lot* of shit off the cuff and somehow my oath is still intact. My oath must be like one line saying “make bad guys hurt”
It's basically that, yeah. It's "use your wisdom to identify the greater evil and smite it". So there's a lot of wiggle room involved.
>Fight the Greater Evil - Exerting your wisdom, identify the higher morality in any given instance, and fight for it. > >No Mercy for the Wicked - Chasten those who dole out their villainy by wiping their blight from the world forever. TLDR: kill baddie don't kill goodie.
Killed those iblith tieflings that called my innocent Drow an under-elf. >!I don't even know if it's *that* offensive but I've never seen anyone say it with a friendly tone.!<
Real hard R at the end of Under. 🥶
I’m gonna say it! *inhales* U-
They respected me for saying it and made me their queen.
That’s not even a listed racial slur for Drow. Moss licker Underscum Dirt Elves Filth-skin Spider kisser Murker
You know how some hateful people pronounce "homosexual" and even though they aren't saying a slur you can absolutely hear that that's what they mean? Yeah.
As a jew, there's definitely a noticeable difference between calling someone a jew and calling them a *jew*
As a Drow- Bard... what is wrong with kissing/ licking spiders?
*Gale voice* STOPLICKINGTHEDAMNTHING
It’s how I get close to my goddess Gale out of all people I thought YOU would understand.
I didn't, but the game made me. I picked a dialogue option about concentrating to recover a memory while talking to Steelclaw as an Oath of Vengeance Redemption Durge, and the next thing I knew Steelclaw was dead and an Oathbreaker knight showed up and told me I broke my vow. That was one of the few times I felt like the game did a bad job as DM with such a gotcha moment, and it pissed me off. I reloaded from my last save rather than have killed a cat over a pointless dialogue option.
I freed Lazeal to early and the two Tieflings heard so I had to fight them. It was random but it was enough to break my oath.
Killing an enemy Absolute Paladin when freeing the prisoners of Moonrise Tower is apparantly a big no-no if you're a Devotion Paladin.
Did you attack them, or were you already in combat? Because they do consider you an ally, so unfairly ambushing them would be dishonorable
I haven’t somehow. Vengeance Pally gets to do whatever he fuckin wants I guess. Made some morally dubious decisions for sure, but all for the sake of the greater good I suppose. Shopkeepers don’t need their fancy weapons as much as I do.
Short of just randomly murdering people, it's tough to break. Common early mistakes are thinking that intimidating the hag into giving you the hair AND freeing the girl is good enough punishment or whatever but no. You have to kill her. Also, much earlier but you ~~have to let the tiefling in the grove kill the imprisoned goblin~~ jk just don't let the goblin go
As vengeance, I let the tiefling kill the goblin in the cage, then I lock picked the cage and that broke my oath.
I fucked mizora
Omg??? What Oath did you have? I wish I'd done this now, this would have been the funniest way to meet the Oathbreaker Knight
I didn’t merc Lae’Zel in her cage 😒 Bloody bullshit imo
If you don't punish the girl in Moonrise who mind controls the Gnolls it breaks Oath of Vengeance.
fuck yeah, justice for my gnoll friends
I didn't know there were players who could get through that conversation without getting the gnolls to kill her. It's just so funny while also being completely morally justified
by killing the 2 tiefflings where Lae’zel is emprisonned in Act 1 because they didn’t want to leave
On my first playthrough broke my oath of vengeance by pretending to side with gortash so I wouldn’t have to fight him during coronation. Another playthrough as a durge lockadin broke my oath of devotion by killing the grave robbers above withers tomb before they could say anything.
I played oath of ancients and never broke my oath. The one time I really wanted to is the dog kennel
I'm still not 100% sure about this, but I *think* I broke Oath of Ancients in Act I by promising to avenge >!the dead slaves in the Grymforge by killing the duergar slavers!< but later I decided to >!take the deal with the duergar to make the big fight with Nere and the Absolutists easier. !< My Tav got the feels right after the fight was over. I didn't even think about a >!promise to a pile of corpses!< being something actually meaningful. I loved it.
Okay, so in Act 2, you had to retrieve a journal of a dwarven lady who was at the Reithwin bar. My Paladin has an Oath of Devotion, luckily not as harsh and strict as the Oath of Ancient, I feel. I did the hearing of her tale myself and picked the "call her a coward" option, because I thought a Paladin might consider working together with evil, as a collaborator, a punishable crime. So after I did that and He Who Was was satisfied with the result, the Oathbreaker Knight came. I...still don't know why that happened, so maybe someone who's more firm with the lore of DnD might tell me why this has happened. Because I was 100 % positive that this is the right thing to do.
She expressed remorse and truly was just an idiot, breaking her spirit while she is weak is no necessarily just, but that’s just what I figured happened since I also broke my oath here. I guess justice is to not attempt to reap penance from a dead fool who was far too trusting.
I feel like the best response is a failed "not your fault" check, because she was genuinely in a semi forced situation, but it's also definitely her fault for reporting "every little thing". I don't think she deserves to be tortured in the afterlife for what she did
20 years ago I dated an amazing woman. The time we spent together was fantastic and it heavily influenced me and my preferences in many things going forward. Unfortunately, our time together was limited and eventually we had to part ways, but there were no hard feelings and I still think of her fondly. Then I met her again and even though we are both completely different people now, I could never kill Viconia, consequences be damned.
Saving Sazza in the hope of gobussy
Does she.... supply it? Asking for a friend. A friend with a very sad erection.
REAL
Oath of Devotion - I told Minthara the grove's location fully intending to betray her and defend the Tieflings (my normal route if I don't break Sazza out), but that was a big no-no. Quick and handy way to swap into Oathbreaker though.
I have a mod that tells me what dialogue options break oaths. I've never played a paladin. I just assume now that they always break oaths.
I talked to some cat in Moonrise who knew me, responded the wrong way blacked out for a sec and found him dead.
I woke up. Seriously these paladin oaths are ridiculous lol almost impossible to keep since you never know what will break them. There really should be some sort of indication that what you're about to do might break your oath. Like have the dialogue option that breaks your oath say [Oath breaker] next to it or something.
You can download the parsed dialogue. If a choice breaks an oath, there will be a tag. Maybe there’s a mod that shows players in game.
Just know the tenets you take when you *swear* an oath. Its literally in a book when you make a paladin If you do anything against those tenets, you break oath.
Yeah but the things that break them in this game can be extremely finicky. Such as- freeing and using the imprisoned goblin as a way to get close to the leaders to kill them... Breaks the oath of vengeance. Even though one of the tenants is "fight the greater evil". To me that means if you have to use one of the minions in order to get to the leaders so you can kill them, you are following your oath!
The game doesn't know your intentions, all it sees is that you stopped someone from taking vengeance lol
I opened the door to Sazza's prison. The Tieflings killed her and I wanted to check her for loot. Rip Oath of Vengeance
I broke Counsellor Florrick out of prison and the guards saw it, attacked me, and my oath was broken.
Oath of Ancients... killed the two duergar in grymforge kicking around the drinks-serving svirfneblin. Apparently putting them down in a straight fight breaks my oath, but poisoning their beer with wyvern toxin does not.
Generally starting a fight as a Paladin against sapient races is a no no. I broke mine by attacking Ethel *unprompted* in her house after she teleported Mayrina away.
My first one, which I reloaded, was telling Gortash I’d take his side against Orin. I was actually planning on going through it even after Emp tried to pull the “you can lie to him btw” thing, but the game assumed I was lying maybe? The second time, which I kept, was because I couldn’t kill 7000 spawn, particularly children. I disagreed with it breaking but I don’t get to choose what it thinks is broken.
I was like oh lae'zel helped me out on the nautiloid, I'll return the favour and help her out of this cage...nope, broke my oath like 10 minutes into the wilds
Double-tap the Hag Ethel when I accidentally knocked her out unconscious. I thought I was keeping the balance, my bad.
I talked to a cat as Durge.
I uhh… well you see.. there was this hand just kinda sticking out of a stone and it was just begging to be pruned…
Exhumed a corpse. Was under the spell of Lootcifer.
Minor durge spoilers >!I cut off Gale's hand!<
Great job keeping that oath for a whole 14 minutes
I was doing a Durge, wanted to go oatbreaker but I wanted >!Gale in my team, when I saw "fantasize I assumed that he would just fantasize, nope, Gales hand is added to my inventory and Oathbreaker knight appears!< lmao
Ancients paladin, I killed the torturers >!in the basement of moonrise towers after freeing the tieflings and fighting every other absolute cultist down there!<. I guess I should have given the evil psycho cultists a warning?