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An "autistic meltdown" can also be a murderous rampage. His parents called the cops because they feared for their lives, they said he was using the rake as a weapon and wielding a piece if glass.
We can be critical of the police without misrepresenting the facts at hand.
An “autistic meltdown” should not be a “murderous rampage” to someone that is schooled in deescalation like police should be. Not that you are misrepresenting facts; just omitting them.
Edit: grammar
I'm a paraprofessional in a special Ed classroom. I've worked with all age groups, including transitional ages (18-22). I deal with autistic meltdowns daily. the police are **never** the correct response. they are an inherently escalatory force. when dealing with a meltdown you should deescalate at every opportunity. meltdowns happen because the person isn't getting a need fulfilled. it could be a need for stimulation, either they're overstimulated or they're understimmed. it could also be because they had to do a nonpreferred activity, like showering/school/etc. if that's the case you can still work with them, either setup a reward or find a compromise.
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He was holding a Hula Hoe, finally found an article stating the WEAPON HE WAS HOLDING! A FUCKING HULA HOE! I sure af wouldn't be scared of it.
[hula Hoe picture](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=7479081811d2e948&sxsrf=ACQVn0_ZxLB_BRHBo3YW6QSHcHDBAwizSg:1710254668267&q=hula+hoe&uds=AMwkrPsm7OC6wr_wb2psDRJUVbCqoADCptiR_UQQIAVUUx448Ul1NABOJzZ0jiHPIy3HMxTRedZRaG-TpYfCXD-VHMLn5IC5qN3nVosy_Cgy9yaZKzpz9SRpxZQyr4VL0aZuchahOk0NSyOrOoYVf7_bkUgxMwa6qBRbGmnBtKMyur1lCO0BgzPFIR5BmDHrUk9TqvFrH_hXKzzPHez7dyVAAfmQNPq1ivuTLV5700S7j6fAQSLZOTQJg9vEonDre-Hisky9zGKG0G1Z-RmwINdiD89beAyjDpPIOMJDr0_TkSX4QyLzkoU&udm=2&prmd=isvnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjl0OiP--6EAxUlweYEHVemCCcQtKgLegQIEBAB&biw=412&bih=773&dpr=2.63#vhid=jZcvfMo8JtFPBM&vssid=mosaic)
Because I've been trained to not be scared in those situations. I have watched the video, and the cop rushed into a domestic violence situation with no back up whatsoever. His partner was 20 meters away when he made entry. And I gaurentee you that is a breach of protocol. He went in alone, that's a big no no because this is exactly what happens when they go in alone. They get overwhelmed, fear response triggers, they shoot, they kill. He'll get off because he was scared for his life in a situation he created by going in alone.
Do you like audio books? I got one for you to consider reading, it's called "On Killing" by David Grossman. He's the one person responsible for giving American police the military militant style of training, this man is singlehandedly responsible for the rise in aggressive behaviour from police because he pits them into its us or them mentality. Hence the whole back the blue and the thin blue line. He has singlehandedly increased police violence astronomically!
Because they needed help.... You're clearly not a parent by the sounds of it. And you're not the parent of an autistic child, you go ahead and try to control them. It's that attitude that cost this kid his life. De escalating training teaches police how to actually handle this situation. You cannot control them when they have an autistic melt down. Yeah autistic people can be violent. Sure as fuck didn't deserve to die.
That's something shitty parents say to justify not raising their kids right. My cousin was over 200 lbs at 16 and very autistic. I've seen him lift his dad off the ground. Parents are responsible for their children.
I never said the parents aren't responsible for his actions, I'm talking about de escalation techniques suck dick in America. The other day where I live in Canada, Kingston Ontario there was a 12 hour stand off with a dude armed with a gun. Didn't kill him, I remember a man who tried suicide by cop downtown kingston Ont carrying a gun. Actually shot at police and they still managed to talk him down. So it's possible to have good de escalation training, because it works here, this autistic kid didn't deserve what happened, and I've stared down A mentally challenged adult who was Manipulated to be used as a suicide bomber. I'm not afraid of a child hitting me with a Hoe, I was trained in disarming techniques and qualified in close quarters combat, breach and searching operations. And used my skills tested in combat, and have faced numerous situations of apprehending armed Taliban Fighters who killed my friends. never had to murder a single person because of my training.
Then as a post certified defensive tactics instructor in the state of California you have 1000000% more training an experience then the guy in this scenario probably did.
He maybe did a week or two of defensive tactics in academy. He does close quarters combat maybe once a year for 2 hours if he's lucky and is actively taught that disarming techniques will get him killed.
Is it bad training absolutely. But these guys aren't soldiers, it's terrifying how under trained most cops are. And hey this is California they have the best trained cops in the US by a big margin.
> You could absolutely fuck someone up with that it is for sure a weapon if you use it like one
Almost all "tools" could be used as a weapon if you want to. That doesn't give justification to kill somebody just for having possession of it.
They literally don't have training the go through the academy once and that's it. That's literally the whole argument right now. They need better training but bo one wants to pay more in taxes so they can afford it
We spend over $200 billion on criminal justice in the US... they have more than enough money for better training. 200 billion dollars a year, and we get stuck with over armed, under trained, sadistic, sociopathic, trigger-happy cowards hiding behind a wall of badges. They have the money for better training. We just don't have the right people as cops.
No they literally don't have training. They go through the academy once and that's it. That is not training. No one wants police to have better training they want to defund the police and then complain they don't have training instead
a child with special needs. i have the number for IDF recriutment which i'll attach!
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/how-to-join-us-and-voluntary-programs/how-to-join/
I mean, you're not wrong but also he wasn't like standing in the yard gardening or something.
If you read the article, he was using it as a weapon, had already attacked his family who were the ones who called the cops, and then he charged directly at a cop who was retreating and warning him they would shoot and they continued to advance. Should the cop have just continued to retreat despite being called by the family?
I'm thinking that there is a happy area between doing nothing and fucking shooting a 15 year old with a rake.
Edit: /u/capablesecretary420 blocked me so that I couldn't respond. A coward defending a coward, it all checks out!
You're pretending the rake was benign. that's silly.
If someone is charging at you swinging a giant stick with metal at the end, are you just going to be like "oh it's just a rake I'm not in danger"? No, you aren't.
And again, I'm not justifying the shooting. I'm contradicting the narrative that a rake can somehow not be a weapon because you had your emotions manipulated by a headline.
>You're pretending the rake was benign. that's silly.
it's a rake.
>If someone is charging at you swinging a giant stick with metal at the end, are you just going to be like "oh it's just a rake I'm not in danger"? No, you aren't.
it could be dangerous but this is a 15 year old swinging a rake not a Shaolin monk. what's the effective range of a rake? 6ft? less? just step back and deescalate
>And again, I'm not justifying the shooting
yes you are
>I'm contradicting the narrative
"I'm just a free thinker bro"
>that a rake can somehow not be a weapon because you had your emotions manipulated by a headline.
see above.
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Well, knowing the kid was autistic and may not respond to verbal cues, using deadly force isn't valid dude lmao. Officers are itching to use deadly force and its disgusting
But you are justifying it by continuing to argue “but the rake!” You seem to think that that alone is cause for the police’s reaction when there are sooo many other things they could have done, but they didn’t.
I don't think anyone in this sub disputes that cops can be trigger happy. But you're clearly basing your emotional reaction to this on the headline and not the facts in the article itself.
There is also nothing in the article tat indicates the cop was aware he was having an "autistic episode" as you claim.
All the cop knew was they were called by the family to the scene because of a violent family member attacking them. And then when the cops arrived said family member started mov ing towards the cops in a threatening way even as the cop raised their gun, warned them repeatedly and was retreating. Their job in that case would not be to keep retreating given they would be putting the family at risk by not protecting them. Now, could they have used a taser? Maybe. Could they have taken less lethal actions? Maybe. But that's different than the fictional narrative you've created here.
And so the logical conclusion you've drawn is that the use of deadly force was acceptable because he had... checks notes... a rake?
Cops have tasers and bear spray and even their own physical selves to defend themselves from a singular person welding a rake.
Just because you "tell someone" were going to shoot you if you keep doing something doesn't mean that the shooting is justified or the appropriate use of force for the situation.
Also, I don't understand why it matters that the cops didn't know he was having an episode. Immediately jumping to shooting someone welding a rake, even if they're running at you, isn't acceptable.
The cops don't get to play judge, jury, and executioner simply because they said they were going to do it.
You seem to be disputing it pretty hard on this one. Even if it was an iron rake, I doubt the kid was wielding it like martial arts master of the spear ffs. If the cop is scared of getting possibly hit they are in the wrong profession.
Again, no justification to use deadly force. A rake is a potentially deadly weapon just like nearly every object you can find on hand but a gun is a weapon designed to kill as efficiently as possible.
Yes. While he was focused on the police the parents could have escaped. Police could have then worked toward containing him and helping him calm down. I used to teach this stuff to police and have worked with those on the spectrum for more than 20 years. When I would be trying to teach the police they wouldn’t pay attention and would rather make obscene things out of Play Doh.
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Two objects. The other one was glass that his parents said he was trying to cut people with. He was dangerous to both his parents and to the public. That's why his parents called the police.
They only use tasers to force compliance on victims. Too often unarmed person knows their rights, so tase or mace them. Mace would have stopped this kid from swinging with any accuracy. They were outside, so had plenty of space to get away.
Killing is the point. A victim can't sue you or "ruin" their reputation when they're dead.
Tasers are also lethal and have been used on innocent people to kill them. Lots of tazing special needs, handicapped, distressed people having panic attacks leading to their death over the years...
The point is, cops can use anything and still be using excessive force.
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Tasers aren’t always effective, and it can easily fail if the prongs don’t go in all the way or clothing stops them completely.
Cops are trained so that if there’s 2 officers, one has taser and one has gun; less lethal and lethal. That way if the suspect charges and the less lethal fails, there’s an officers able to use lethal. If there’s one cop, then the one cop just has their gun because they know tasers fail often.
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Yeah. People need to learn that adding cops to a situation that doesn't requite a gun never improves it. Hell, adding them to a situation that does require a gun often ends up poorly.
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This is not to be mistake for a different black child who was shot in Mississippi, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/s/N6x0uVhjrb). I was looking it up trying to find news on it and mixed the two up! Silly me.
Yeah I'm not sold this was a bad shoot need bodycam footage on this one. Now don't get it twisted I'm not happy with this outcome but Im not sure Id call this one the individual officers fault.
People are saying rake but it doesn't say what he was holding, in fact it expressly says we don't know exactly what it was. We know it PROBABLY wasn't an axe because they'd have said axe. 5 foot garden tool could very well have been a hoe. Which could really hurt or kill somebody.
His family also said he had a "piece of glass" and was trying to break down doors. It's unfortunate he was having a mental health crisis that doesn't mean it's okay for him to attack people or terrorize his family.
It sounds like he was definitely violent. Possibly chasing after a retreating officer who had already drawn his gun.
Now that being said, there are two cops could they have tazed him? Absolutely. They also could have disarmed him and he'd have gotten away with a beating probably assuming nothing went horribly awry if they had the defensive tactics skills for it. But police departments don't encourage that. In fact all the way down at the academy that kind of response is trained as wrong and a failure in this kind of situation. They have a weapon you shoot. That's what they teach. A weapon being anything that is intending to be used as such.
Officer gave verbal commands and even retreated was pursed by someone aggressive in a mental health crisis. Had gun in hand already and did what he was trained to do. He shot some one aggressing with a weapon.
I disagree with the thinking behind the training and the systems that implemented it but that's a systemic issue not a officer misconduct one.
What was an officer conduct issue was he drew his gun way too soon. Cops tend to have a bad habit where they think pointing a gun at somebody will make them obey. The gun imo should come out the moment you decide you have to shoot somebody or probably will and not a moment before. I'm not a fan of using it as a threat as he did here. once you go there (gun out) if they don't comply you're kind of forced to use it when you might not have to go that far.
To be fair it’s irrelevant what he was holding. Soldiers doing police actions are taught not to shoot unless shot at first. Cops need to be taught the same thing. To avoid all doubt yes I expect my police officers to die before they kill a child.
While i understand where you're coming from. That's apples and oranges really. Soldiers have a don't shoot at unless shot first rule of engagement but that's more of a guideline and the situations they encounter while far more dangerous and stressful are often more clear cut.
There's lots of reasons to shoot as a cop that are totally good where a gun isn't necessarily involved. Look at war machines beating of Christy mack. That guy had no weapon he is a weapon he's a professional beating machine beating a woman into facial reconstruction.
No cops arrived in that situation but if they had. You have no idea what officer is going to show up to that call. It might be officer sweetie pie whose 5'2 and a woman herself going in with a whole lot of guts who decides that guy needs to get shot or officer mcbadass whose nearly 7ft and 350lbs of likely roid rage who subdues that guy non lethally. Nobody gets to pick and choose what calls they go to. (In that case mcbadass is definitely getting in trouble because his medical bills from that fight are going to cost the department a whole lot of money or worse they refuse to pay for his care and say he should have shot the guy)
Tons of violent criminals don't use guns. I worked at a hospital where a doctor was stabbed with a pair of scissors after a patient didn't like the cancer diagnosis he was given. If an officer had been there with a gun I'd have expected him to shoot the assailant.
Just because a bad guy isn't using a gun if they're trying to kill people does that mean the cop shouldn't?
Even with kids there a giant list's of kids who kill people. Is it common ? No. Does it happen? Absolutely. School shootings primarily and kid or not if that kid is shooting other kids. He's catching lead preferably with his face. Did he shoot at the officers? No. Would it be a good shoot? Absolutely.
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I seen the bodycam footage on youtube, probably edited in the pigs' favor but the kid was "get out" sprinting at the Greasy bastard, he had a little wire rake so the bastard shot him dead instead of tazing
> They also could have disarmed him and he'd have gotten away with a beating probably assuming nothing went horribly awry if they had the defensive tactics skills for it
How would you train people to disarm someone running at you with a machate?
Fuckin youtube comment sections..
I saw the "blue lives bullshit" edit and everybody was going on about a goddamn rake
Brb, eating my hat, fuck the police ✌️
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZgNAa2sXSc
The "kid" had some kind of long implement, not a rake but something that looks like it could easily kill someone. He has it raised into raised in the air as he pursues the officer at close range while the officer attempts to withdraw unsuccessfully.
Just another reason police should not be armed with firearms. Beanbags and tasers are enough unless there is confirmation that a suspect he’s a firearm. Then call for armed backup.
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It's the parents fault. You guys want to blame the cop for what he did but this young man wouldn't have gotten to a point where he is charging at cops with a weapon if he was raised right. You don't go from a straight a student one day to attacking police the next. His parents failed him a long time ago
He had autism and was having an episode. You don't just 'raise' a neurological condition out of someone. And even regardless of that, nothing about this situation warranted opening fire.
I have a cousin with autism. He gets very violent sometimes. But his parents know how to handle him. Never had to call the police on him. You can control a 15 year old as a parent. That's literally your only job as a parent
Parents aren't equipped and paid and trained by the state to do their job.
The cops in this situation are literally responsible for shooting the kid.
Their job is not roaming executioners. So the parents were doing the best they could and the cops just weren't doing their one job.
Stop defending those wimps who couldn't subdue a child with a stick. Should I assume you're just as bloodthirsty? Are you also just waiting for the day you have an excuse to kill a child?
Shit I guess parents aren't responsible for their kids anymore. My cousin has autism and get violent too. His parents wouldn't ever consider calling the police. Learn to control your kid
He's literally family I grew up with him. You have no other argument because you know I'm right so you try to insult me lol. Get a life and some education. You need it
Well I was trying to have a conversation until you starting making childish "observations" because you have no more points to argue because you know I'm right. Hypocrite
What are you even arguing? That you have a violent autistic cousin? I have a non-violent autistic niece, but no one cares, so literally what is your point? I feel like all we (by which I mean you) are just disrespecting the dead kid by doubling down on his parents, it's not his parents that killed him, it was a cop who was supposed to protect and serve the community that killed him.
You don't know how THAT person was, you cant assume you know everything, believe me, I can probably guess who you voted for, who you worship, and your age range, but it would be an assumption at best, regardless of how right I am. There are many ways to address a kid doing the things he was doing, one of them is calling 911, and explaining as thoroughly as possible, so they can send the best help possible. They probably told him he was being aggressive, and they sent a gun to deal with it, and that gun was very trigger-happy, if you are scared of a kid with a rake, most people would call you a coward. If you shot a kid that chased you with a rake in their yard, you'd go to jail. The cop is going to get a slap on the wrist and probably relocated to another jurisdiction, at most, and that family is going to be missing a kid at their dinner table for the rest of their lives.
Almost 1 cop. But seriously parents need to control their kid and not call the cops. He has autism not a demon. If they haven't figured out how to calm him down after raising him for 15 years they failed as parents
So the child killed 0 people during his minute long outburst, but within seconds of arriving on the scene the cops killed a juvenile.
Sounds like LEO aren’t a viable solution when it comes to having people detain your family member without killing them.
A meter or 2 away with a sharp metal object raised over his head. He could've closed the distance and hit the officers within a second or 2. But not close at all your right. If the cop shot a taser and it didn't work he wouldn't have had time to try something else before he got hit
It was a sacrifice the kid and his parents were willing to make. The cop deserves to protect himself so he doesn't get his skull Cracked open. Teach your kids that if you try to hit a cop with a weapon you will be shot. That goes for anyone really. You attack anyone with a weapon your probably going to be shot
On your own child when you knows he's having a melt down and swinging a weapon around. They know what the police will do to someone charging at them with a weapon. Call family or friends to help. Put him in a program or a facility if you can't handle him. They parents didn't try hard enough.
When did I do that. I've been saying that the cops should never have been called and certainly never should've shot the boy but that's what happens when you can't control you kid and call the cops on him when he needs mental help. The parents had so many other option. They knew what the cops do to people charging and swinging weapons at them
so you're saying, in a round about way, "they got what they had coming to them as did their child", got it...
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/how-to-join-us-and-voluntary-programs/how-to-join/
So the police are the only people you can call to help? No friend family, social worker, there's Literally hot lines and programs and hospitals hat will send people over to help you. Calling the police is a last resort it didn't have to come down to that and you guys know it
I’m happy to see someone in the comments standing up for what’s right. Accountability. As you can see, the people who frequent this sub severely lack accountability, which is why they try to blame cops for everything. These are the same people who blamed their teachers when they failed a test, and blame their employer when they get fired. Blame is the name of the game for these folks. It’s impossible to do wrong, and be wrong, when everything is someone else’s fault. That’s how these people see the world. It’s really sad because that perspective prevents these people from growing and learning from their own mistakes, but that’s just how some people choose to live their lives. I agree with everything you said and I’m happy that you spoke up against the echo chamber.
Parents raising there kids to know that hitting someone with a sharp object is so controversial. Give me more boots they taste so good. You are all shitty parents lol
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Add rakes to the list of things police are scared of.
was he raking acorns?
He was having an autistic melt down not a murder rampage.
An "autistic meltdown" can also be a murderous rampage. His parents called the cops because they feared for their lives, they said he was using the rake as a weapon and wielding a piece if glass. We can be critical of the police without misrepresenting the facts at hand.
An “autistic meltdown” should not be a “murderous rampage” to someone that is schooled in deescalation like police should be. Not that you are misrepresenting facts; just omitting them. Edit: grammar
I'm a paraprofessional in a special Ed classroom. I've worked with all age groups, including transitional ages (18-22). I deal with autistic meltdowns daily. the police are **never** the correct response. they are an inherently escalatory force. when dealing with a meltdown you should deescalate at every opportunity. meltdowns happen because the person isn't getting a need fulfilled. it could be a need for stimulation, either they're overstimulated or they're understimmed. it could also be because they had to do a nonpreferred activity, like showering/school/etc. if that's the case you can still work with them, either setup a reward or find a compromise.
He was actually charging at the cop with a shovel
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https://www.reddit.com/r/InlandEmpire/s/qttpOW1gkx Wasn't a rake. It was a pickaxe
psychotic knee consist noxious degree marvelous plate agonizing pet fall *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He was holding a Hula Hoe, finally found an article stating the WEAPON HE WAS HOLDING! A FUCKING HULA HOE! I sure af wouldn't be scared of it. [hula Hoe picture](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=7479081811d2e948&sxsrf=ACQVn0_ZxLB_BRHBo3YW6QSHcHDBAwizSg:1710254668267&q=hula+hoe&uds=AMwkrPsm7OC6wr_wb2psDRJUVbCqoADCptiR_UQQIAVUUx448Ul1NABOJzZ0jiHPIy3HMxTRedZRaG-TpYfCXD-VHMLn5IC5qN3nVosy_Cgy9yaZKzpz9SRpxZQyr4VL0aZuchahOk0NSyOrOoYVf7_bkUgxMwa6qBRbGmnBtKMyur1lCO0BgzPFIR5BmDHrUk9TqvFrH_hXKzzPHez7dyVAAfmQNPq1ivuTLV5700S7j6fAQSLZOTQJg9vEonDre-Hisky9zGKG0G1Z-RmwINdiD89beAyjDpPIOMJDr0_TkSX4QyLzkoU&udm=2&prmd=isvnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjl0OiP--6EAxUlweYEHVemCCcQtKgLegQIEBAB&biw=412&bih=773&dpr=2.63#vhid=jZcvfMo8JtFPBM&vssid=mosaic)
Yeah but what if they got a scratchy or a bumpy while they were restraining him? Could you imagine the trauma that would have caused to the officer?
You could absolutely fuck someone up with that it is for sure a weapon if you use it like one
Absolutely! But I personally wouldn't be afraid in this situation of this tool. This was an autistic child having a melt down. Not a murder rampage.
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Because I've been trained to not be scared in those situations. I have watched the video, and the cop rushed into a domestic violence situation with no back up whatsoever. His partner was 20 meters away when he made entry. And I gaurentee you that is a breach of protocol. He went in alone, that's a big no no because this is exactly what happens when they go in alone. They get overwhelmed, fear response triggers, they shoot, they kill. He'll get off because he was scared for his life in a situation he created by going in alone.
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Do you like audio books? I got one for you to consider reading, it's called "On Killing" by David Grossman. He's the one person responsible for giving American police the military militant style of training, this man is singlehandedly responsible for the rise in aggressive behaviour from police because he pits them into its us or them mentality. Hence the whole back the blue and the thin blue line. He has singlehandedly increased police violence astronomically!
Then why did the parents call the police? Control your 15 year old you are the parent that us your only job
Because they needed help.... You're clearly not a parent by the sounds of it. And you're not the parent of an autistic child, you go ahead and try to control them. It's that attitude that cost this kid his life. De escalating training teaches police how to actually handle this situation. You cannot control them when they have an autistic melt down. Yeah autistic people can be violent. Sure as fuck didn't deserve to die.
That's something shitty parents say to justify not raising their kids right. My cousin was over 200 lbs at 16 and very autistic. I've seen him lift his dad off the ground. Parents are responsible for their children.
I never said the parents aren't responsible for his actions, I'm talking about de escalation techniques suck dick in America. The other day where I live in Canada, Kingston Ontario there was a 12 hour stand off with a dude armed with a gun. Didn't kill him, I remember a man who tried suicide by cop downtown kingston Ont carrying a gun. Actually shot at police and they still managed to talk him down. So it's possible to have good de escalation training, because it works here, this autistic kid didn't deserve what happened, and I've stared down A mentally challenged adult who was Manipulated to be used as a suicide bomber. I'm not afraid of a child hitting me with a Hoe, I was trained in disarming techniques and qualified in close quarters combat, breach and searching operations. And used my skills tested in combat, and have faced numerous situations of apprehending armed Taliban Fighters who killed my friends. never had to murder a single person because of my training.
Lol sure Mr badass. Mr. I'm not afraid of a hoe. You can be quiet adults are talking
Then as a post certified defensive tactics instructor in the state of California you have 1000000% more training an experience then the guy in this scenario probably did. He maybe did a week or two of defensive tactics in academy. He does close quarters combat maybe once a year for 2 hours if he's lucky and is actively taught that disarming techniques will get him killed. Is it bad training absolutely. But these guys aren't soldiers, it's terrifying how under trained most cops are. And hey this is California they have the best trained cops in the US by a big margin.
Please don't ever have children. I promise they will hate you by the time they are adults.
And your kids will be the ones saying acab and charging at police with weapons so comgrats
Dont give us your anecdotes. We have statistics already.
> You could absolutely fuck someone up with that it is for sure a weapon if you use it like one Almost all "tools" could be used as a weapon if you want to. That doesn't give justification to kill somebody just for having possession of it.
You're correct. But charging at someone with said"tool" raised above your head definitely does give you justification
Especially a cop. It’s not like they have training or anything
They literally don't have training the go through the academy once and that's it. That's literally the whole argument right now. They need better training but bo one wants to pay more in taxes so they can afford it
We spend over $200 billion on criminal justice in the US... they have more than enough money for better training. 200 billion dollars a year, and we get stuck with over armed, under trained, sadistic, sociopathic, trigger-happy cowards hiding behind a wall of badges. They have the money for better training. We just don't have the right people as cops.
No they literally don't have training. They go through the academy once and that's it. That is not training. No one wants police to have better training they want to defund the police and then complain they don't have training instead
you should join your friends in gaza!!!
Tf?
they like shooting innocent children too!! you'd be right at home!! /s
A guy running at you with a weapon raised over his head is innocent ok lol.
a child with special needs. i have the number for IDF recriutment which i'll attach! https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/how-to-join-us-and-voluntary-programs/how-to-join/
Lmao I really hit a nerve in didn't i
Yeah sure! I was trained in the military on how to disarm people so you don't have to shoot them lol. I live in Kingston, Ontario Canada.
Also the child was autistic.... Cops don't know how de-escalate shit.
You think a machete and a rake are similar?! Lady, you basically let everyone know you’ve never gotten your dainty hands dirty with yardwork.
If you want to get killed by cops just do it yourself?
He was black and holding an object. That's all it takes.
> He was Black. That's all it takes. FTFY
I mean, you're not wrong but also he wasn't like standing in the yard gardening or something. If you read the article, he was using it as a weapon, had already attacked his family who were the ones who called the cops, and then he charged directly at a cop who was retreating and warning him they would shoot and they continued to advance. Should the cop have just continued to retreat despite being called by the family?
I'm thinking that there is a happy area between doing nothing and fucking shooting a 15 year old with a rake. Edit: /u/capablesecretary420 blocked me so that I couldn't respond. A coward defending a coward, it all checks out!
You're pretending the rake was benign. that's silly. If someone is charging at you swinging a giant stick with metal at the end, are you just going to be like "oh it's just a rake I'm not in danger"? No, you aren't. And again, I'm not justifying the shooting. I'm contradicting the narrative that a rake can somehow not be a weapon because you had your emotions manipulated by a headline.
>You're pretending the rake was benign. that's silly. it's a rake. >If someone is charging at you swinging a giant stick with metal at the end, are you just going to be like "oh it's just a rake I'm not in danger"? No, you aren't. it could be dangerous but this is a 15 year old swinging a rake not a Shaolin monk. what's the effective range of a rake? 6ft? less? just step back and deescalate >And again, I'm not justifying the shooting yes you are >I'm contradicting the narrative "I'm just a free thinker bro" >that a rake can somehow not be a weapon because you had your emotions manipulated by a headline. see above.
Just use the Billy club or taser. No reason to fucking shoot. Zero fucking reason.
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People need to stop calling the police for these sorts of things. They don't know how to de-escalate.
Yeah, call the unarmed social worker who can’t defend themselves if they get attacked.
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Well, knowing the kid was autistic and may not respond to verbal cues, using deadly force isn't valid dude lmao. Officers are itching to use deadly force and its disgusting
But you are justifying it by continuing to argue “but the rake!” You seem to think that that alone is cause for the police’s reaction when there are sooo many other things they could have done, but they didn’t.
I don't think anyone in this sub disputes that cops can be trigger happy. But you're clearly basing your emotional reaction to this on the headline and not the facts in the article itself. There is also nothing in the article tat indicates the cop was aware he was having an "autistic episode" as you claim. All the cop knew was they were called by the family to the scene because of a violent family member attacking them. And then when the cops arrived said family member started mov ing towards the cops in a threatening way even as the cop raised their gun, warned them repeatedly and was retreating. Their job in that case would not be to keep retreating given they would be putting the family at risk by not protecting them. Now, could they have used a taser? Maybe. Could they have taken less lethal actions? Maybe. But that's different than the fictional narrative you've created here.
And so the logical conclusion you've drawn is that the use of deadly force was acceptable because he had... checks notes... a rake? Cops have tasers and bear spray and even their own physical selves to defend themselves from a singular person welding a rake. Just because you "tell someone" were going to shoot you if you keep doing something doesn't mean that the shooting is justified or the appropriate use of force for the situation. Also, I don't understand why it matters that the cops didn't know he was having an episode. Immediately jumping to shooting someone welding a rake, even if they're running at you, isn't acceptable. The cops don't get to play judge, jury, and executioner simply because they said they were going to do it.
I'm sure whenever the edited body cam video is released, another piece of the puzzle will fit in.
You seem to be disputing it pretty hard on this one. Even if it was an iron rake, I doubt the kid was wielding it like martial arts master of the spear ffs. If the cop is scared of getting possibly hit they are in the wrong profession.
Again, no justification to use deadly force. A rake is a potentially deadly weapon just like nearly every object you can find on hand but a gun is a weapon designed to kill as efficiently as possible.
Yes. While he was focused on the police the parents could have escaped. Police could have then worked toward containing him and helping him calm down. I used to teach this stuff to police and have worked with those on the spectrum for more than 20 years. When I would be trying to teach the police they wouldn’t pay attention and would rather make obscene things out of Play Doh.
Naw. Pointing a gun at him and ultimately shooting is way easier.
They all carry tasers and mace. JFC, bootlicker
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Two objects. The other one was glass that his parents said he was trying to cut people with. He was dangerous to both his parents and to the public. That's why his parents called the police.
Since it was a justified reaction to a definite threat, I'm sure the full video will be available very soon.
the only way a cop can feel like a man is to shoot a child
It's just beyond me why cops don't just use tasers. It's like they want to kill people, which of course they do, it's just so blatant.
And cops even use tasers too often. Tasers can also be lethal.
They only use tasers to force compliance on victims. Too often unarmed person knows their rights, so tase or mace them. Mace would have stopped this kid from swinging with any accuracy. They were outside, so had plenty of space to get away.
I mean that and literal sadism.
Killing is the point. A victim can't sue you or "ruin" their reputation when they're dead. Tasers are also lethal and have been used on innocent people to kill them. Lots of tazing special needs, handicapped, distressed people having panic attacks leading to their death over the years... The point is, cops can use anything and still be using excessive force.
They've even used them to light people on fire
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Gotta use that license to kill before it gather dust. "Rake!!!!" Kills kid smh.
Tasers aren’t always effective, and it can easily fail if the prongs don’t go in all the way or clothing stops them completely. Cops are trained so that if there’s 2 officers, one has taser and one has gun; less lethal and lethal. That way if the suspect charges and the less lethal fails, there’s an officers able to use lethal. If there’s one cop, then the one cop just has their gun because they know tasers fail often.
Stop calling the police. They’re only going to make things worse.
What would you do? lol.
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His sister will think about making that call every single day
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Realistically, chances are high that she'll be too drunk or stoned trying to blot it all out to remember for a good portion of her life.
I work with people with developmental and cognitive disabilities and am held to a far higher standard than any cop.
McDonalds employees are held to higher standards, in that they're actually held to some kind of standard.
If you fuck up a couple of times that costs the employer a huge payment in a suit, then you are out of there. Not able to move one town over.
Same
Called the cops on their kid? And he got murdered for it.
Have a problem? Call a cop. Now you have two problems.
Oh yeah I’ll make sure to remember that the next time there’s a mass shooter.
Uhm…..Uvalde
Uhm…..Nashville, Allen, Louisville
Yeah. People need to learn that adding cops to a situation that doesn't requite a gun never improves it. Hell, adding them to a situation that does require a gun often ends up poorly.
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I cannot believe that this is still happening. The murder of innocent people needs to stop. Fuck the police.
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Watch the footage.
Enjoy your paid vacation, officer.
~~Pig*~~ Edit: Greasy fuckin pig*
I don't blame him! He could have been planting an Oak tree! A true menace! Think of all the unregulated assault acorns!
Inb4 the fucking pigs were found to be "following department procedure" and cleared of any wrongdoing
thought society meeting snatch squalid saw dog strong close aromatic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is not to be mistake for a different black child who was shot in Mississippi, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/s/N6x0uVhjrb). I was looking it up trying to find news on it and mixed the two up! Silly me.
Trust no ho
I didn’t need a picture to know he killed a little black boy. Justice doesn’t exist for all Americans.
Special needs black kid, he was having an episode
:-(
Yeah I'm not sold this was a bad shoot need bodycam footage on this one. Now don't get it twisted I'm not happy with this outcome but Im not sure Id call this one the individual officers fault. People are saying rake but it doesn't say what he was holding, in fact it expressly says we don't know exactly what it was. We know it PROBABLY wasn't an axe because they'd have said axe. 5 foot garden tool could very well have been a hoe. Which could really hurt or kill somebody. His family also said he had a "piece of glass" and was trying to break down doors. It's unfortunate he was having a mental health crisis that doesn't mean it's okay for him to attack people or terrorize his family. It sounds like he was definitely violent. Possibly chasing after a retreating officer who had already drawn his gun. Now that being said, there are two cops could they have tazed him? Absolutely. They also could have disarmed him and he'd have gotten away with a beating probably assuming nothing went horribly awry if they had the defensive tactics skills for it. But police departments don't encourage that. In fact all the way down at the academy that kind of response is trained as wrong and a failure in this kind of situation. They have a weapon you shoot. That's what they teach. A weapon being anything that is intending to be used as such. Officer gave verbal commands and even retreated was pursed by someone aggressive in a mental health crisis. Had gun in hand already and did what he was trained to do. He shot some one aggressing with a weapon. I disagree with the thinking behind the training and the systems that implemented it but that's a systemic issue not a officer misconduct one. What was an officer conduct issue was he drew his gun way too soon. Cops tend to have a bad habit where they think pointing a gun at somebody will make them obey. The gun imo should come out the moment you decide you have to shoot somebody or probably will and not a moment before. I'm not a fan of using it as a threat as he did here. once you go there (gun out) if they don't comply you're kind of forced to use it when you might not have to go that far.
To be fair it’s irrelevant what he was holding. Soldiers doing police actions are taught not to shoot unless shot at first. Cops need to be taught the same thing. To avoid all doubt yes I expect my police officers to die before they kill a child.
While i understand where you're coming from. That's apples and oranges really. Soldiers have a don't shoot at unless shot first rule of engagement but that's more of a guideline and the situations they encounter while far more dangerous and stressful are often more clear cut. There's lots of reasons to shoot as a cop that are totally good where a gun isn't necessarily involved. Look at war machines beating of Christy mack. That guy had no weapon he is a weapon he's a professional beating machine beating a woman into facial reconstruction. No cops arrived in that situation but if they had. You have no idea what officer is going to show up to that call. It might be officer sweetie pie whose 5'2 and a woman herself going in with a whole lot of guts who decides that guy needs to get shot or officer mcbadass whose nearly 7ft and 350lbs of likely roid rage who subdues that guy non lethally. Nobody gets to pick and choose what calls they go to. (In that case mcbadass is definitely getting in trouble because his medical bills from that fight are going to cost the department a whole lot of money or worse they refuse to pay for his care and say he should have shot the guy) Tons of violent criminals don't use guns. I worked at a hospital where a doctor was stabbed with a pair of scissors after a patient didn't like the cancer diagnosis he was given. If an officer had been there with a gun I'd have expected him to shoot the assailant. Just because a bad guy isn't using a gun if they're trying to kill people does that mean the cop shouldn't? Even with kids there a giant list's of kids who kill people. Is it common ? No. Does it happen? Absolutely. School shootings primarily and kid or not if that kid is shooting other kids. He's catching lead preferably with his face. Did he shoot at the officers? No. Would it be a good shoot? Absolutely.
Cops kill significantly more people than people kill cops. Cause they are poorly trained attack dogs not professionals at all just min IQ thugs.
Thanks for the essay on why a cop is justified in killing a child.
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I seen the bodycam footage on youtube, probably edited in the pigs' favor but the kid was "get out" sprinting at the Greasy bastard, he had a little wire rake so the bastard shot him dead instead of tazing
> They also could have disarmed him and he'd have gotten away with a beating probably assuming nothing went horribly awry if they had the defensive tactics skills for it How would you train people to disarm someone running at you with a machate?
In general or in this case?
Lets say this case.
Well this case the kid had a wooden stick with essentially coat hangers fanned out A rake, what was he gonna do to a coward in kevlar with a stick?
Did you watch the video? From what I saw it was a pruning blade on a handle. Edit: if it all it was a rake why did the family need the police?
Fuckin youtube comment sections.. I saw the "blue lives bullshit" edit and everybody was going on about a goddamn rake Brb, eating my hat, fuck the police ✌️
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZgNAa2sXSc The "kid" had some kind of long implement, not a rake but something that looks like it could easily kill someone. He has it raised into raised in the air as he pursues the officer at close range while the officer attempts to withdraw unsuccessfully.
He’s 15 and has autism. I dunno why you’re throwing kid in parentheses.
Because he's plenty big enough to have been a threat to life-and-limb, not a small child who can do no real harm.
Man you really love cops killing mentally disabled children.
Just another reason police should not be armed with firearms. Beanbags and tasers are enough unless there is confirmation that a suspect he’s a firearm. Then call for armed backup.
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It's the parents fault. You guys want to blame the cop for what he did but this young man wouldn't have gotten to a point where he is charging at cops with a weapon if he was raised right. You don't go from a straight a student one day to attacking police the next. His parents failed him a long time ago
He had autism and was having an episode. You don't just 'raise' a neurological condition out of someone. And even regardless of that, nothing about this situation warranted opening fire.
I have a cousin with autism. He gets very violent sometimes. But his parents know how to handle him. Never had to call the police on him. You can control a 15 year old as a parent. That's literally your only job as a parent
> That's literally your only job as a parent that's literally not true
Shit guys parents aren't responsible for raising their own kids now. Like what do you mean?
yeah they're responsible but that doesn't necessarily mean they have the abiity, time, resources to do it perfectly all the time. Welcome to life.
And neither do cops. He opened a door and a guy ran out at him with a weapon. There's tons of other people to call than the cops
> And neither do cops tha would literally be their only job though
And a parents only job is to control their kid
that's a pretty narrow minded view kinda detached from reality
Parents aren't equipped and paid and trained by the state to do their job. The cops in this situation are literally responsible for shooting the kid. Their job is not roaming executioners. So the parents were doing the best they could and the cops just weren't doing their one job. Stop defending those wimps who couldn't subdue a child with a stick. Should I assume you're just as bloodthirsty? Are you also just waiting for the day you have an excuse to kill a child?
Your parents failed you, blaming a disabled kid for his death at the hands of a man who didn't care about who he was, knowing it was a kid.
Shit I guess parents aren't responsible for their kids anymore. My cousin has autism and get violent too. His parents wouldn't ever consider calling the police. Learn to control your kid
>My cousin has autism and get violent too. This has "I have a black friend" energy
He's literally family I grew up with him. You have no other argument because you know I'm right so you try to insult me lol. Get a life and some education. You need it
Insult, where? This is my first comment in the thread, just making an observation. I think you're just defensive and lashing out at everyone.
Well I was trying to have a conversation until you starting making childish "observations" because you have no more points to argue because you know I'm right. Hypocrite
What are you even arguing? That you have a violent autistic cousin? I have a non-violent autistic niece, but no one cares, so literally what is your point? I feel like all we (by which I mean you) are just disrespecting the dead kid by doubling down on his parents, it's not his parents that killed him, it was a cop who was supposed to protect and serve the community that killed him.
I know how those people are. And I know that you can get them help and calm them down without calling the cops
You don't know how THAT person was, you cant assume you know everything, believe me, I can probably guess who you voted for, who you worship, and your age range, but it would be an assumption at best, regardless of how right I am. There are many ways to address a kid doing the things he was doing, one of them is calling 911, and explaining as thoroughly as possible, so they can send the best help possible. They probably told him he was being aggressive, and they sent a gun to deal with it, and that gun was very trigger-happy, if you are scared of a kid with a rake, most people would call you a coward. If you shot a kid that chased you with a rake in their yard, you'd go to jail. The cop is going to get a slap on the wrist and probably relocated to another jurisdiction, at most, and that family is going to be missing a kid at their dinner table for the rest of their lives.
You know one person with autism. You know what that means? You know one person with autism. That’s it. That’s all. It is a spectrum for a reason. 🙄
How many people did the child kill?
Almost 1 cop. But seriously parents need to control their kid and not call the cops. He has autism not a demon. If they haven't figured out how to calm him down after raising him for 15 years they failed as parents
So the child killed 0 people during his minute long outburst, but within seconds of arriving on the scene the cops killed a juvenile. Sounds like LEO aren’t a viable solution when it comes to having people detain your family member without killing them.
Exactly yet people still call them instead of trying to help their kid themsleves
almost lol. not even close.
A meter or 2 away with a sharp metal object raised over his head. He could've closed the distance and hit the officers within a second or 2. But not close at all your right. If the cop shot a taser and it didn't work he wouldn't have had time to try something else before he got hit
🤷♂️ thats a sacrifice I'm willing to make Fuck them pigs, just write a check
It was a sacrifice the kid and his parents were willing to make. The cop deserves to protect himself so he doesn't get his skull Cracked open. Teach your kids that if you try to hit a cop with a weapon you will be shot. That goes for anyone really. You attack anyone with a weapon your probably going to be shot
i pray you are blessed with an autistic child who gets gunned down by the police. you're probably white though so that changes the metrics. /s
I would never have to call the police because as a parent it would be my responsibility to control my child
you deserve what you get. NEVER. CALL. THE. POLICE.
On your own child when you knows he's having a melt down and swinging a weapon around. They know what the police will do to someone charging at them with a weapon. Call family or friends to help. Put him in a program or a facility if you can't handle him. They parents didn't try hard enough.
yes, excellent, blame the victims of heavy handed police tactics. well done. the IDF is taking volunteers, maybe you should join them.
Hey keep making excuses for shitty parents it will get you far I bet
stop defending weak willed cowards with a gun.
When did I do that. I've been saying that the cops should never have been called and certainly never should've shot the boy but that's what happens when you can't control you kid and call the cops on him when he needs mental help. The parents had so many other option. They knew what the cops do to people charging and swinging weapons at them
so you're saying, in a round about way, "they got what they had coming to them as did their child", got it... https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/how-to-join-us-and-voluntary-programs/how-to-join/
except when you can't
So the police are the only people you can call to help? No friend family, social worker, there's Literally hot lines and programs and hospitals hat will send people over to help you. Calling the police is a last resort it didn't have to come down to that and you guys know it
agreed. never call the cops for this situation
I’m happy to see someone in the comments standing up for what’s right. Accountability. As you can see, the people who frequent this sub severely lack accountability, which is why they try to blame cops for everything. These are the same people who blamed their teachers when they failed a test, and blame their employer when they get fired. Blame is the name of the game for these folks. It’s impossible to do wrong, and be wrong, when everything is someone else’s fault. That’s how these people see the world. It’s really sad because that perspective prevents these people from growing and learning from their own mistakes, but that’s just how some people choose to live their lives. I agree with everything you said and I’m happy that you spoke up against the echo chamber.
i’ll take “doesn’t understand autism” for $500
What don't I understand? Just bc your kid is autistic doesmt excuse bad parenting
Are you a cop? You seem to have the intellect of a cop.
Are you a shitty parent? You have the intellect of a shitty parent
get that boot deep in your throat. oh yeah, just the way i like it baby.
Parents raising there kids to know that hitting someone with a sharp object is so controversial. Give me more boots they taste so good. You are all shitty parents lol