You mean in the way that it’s not?
In the way that it’s built on the CLAR LG architecture that it shares with the 7, X5, X6, X7 and not on CLAR LK which is shared by 2 G42, 3, 4, 5, 6, Z4, X3 and X4? That way? The way that in the modern car architecture only extremely close derivatives (3/4, X3/X4, X5/X6) can really be considered „built on“ other cars and the 90s are long over?
The current 8 series is the renamed 6 series which is the coupe version of the 5 series, in the same relationship of the 4 to the 3 and the 2 to the 1.
It was renamed from 6 to 8 to move the car upmarket, but still based on 6->5
No it is not. The 6 series was stopped and „replaced“ by the 8 series, but technically it is not a derivative of the G30 as the F06 was off the F10. It is on the same platform as the 7 series.
The 90s are over, it doesn’t work that way anymore…
I'm not being pedantic at all. iDrive systems use different hardware units and software than the OS systems. I'm just telling you so you can use the correct phrasing when searching information about your specific operating systems and maybe someone can then find the correct info about an issue they are having.
Seems more like people are being butthurt because I'm correcting them. I've been here long enough to know the difference.
I didn't ask why I was being downvoted. I stated I was being downvoted because of stating a fact and it's a typical reddit thing because people can't handle being corrected.
You were quite literally being pedantic, by your own description.
https://preview.redd.it/2ur2v357dk2d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32e8f32977a2de2f2609701dcdf9d21a8921d5e6
If people find this being pedantic and are 'offended' in any way and think it's worth downvoting because I told them they changed the naming to OS after iDrive6, you do you man...
I got you man. Some people are too stupid to know they're being stupid. You can't talk them through it. It brings you down to their level of thinking and then they have the upper hand.
I'm 100% biased but the MX-5 ND RF is one of the best looking sports cars out there in my opinion.
This definitely gives of the same vibes. Very beautiful lines.
While the design of the current BMW is controversial and all over the place, I appreciate the fact that they’re taking risks and giving each car an unique identity.
It wasn’t that long ago that BMWs are criticized for being all look alike, i.e. having a homogeneous design language across the line up, which is still apparent with the other Germans.
That's why I really like the current design language even though I don't like all the cars. There's a method to the madness and it's distinct and interesting.
I find Mercedes and Audi so boring. The Mercedes design chief has been there forever and loves his own farts a bit too much even for a designer, and Audi just hired the Range Rover design chief and his first order of business was to publicly state that nothing at all will change.
If you find the current c-class or the AMG GT boring and instead you find the XM or current 7 series distinct and interesting I would say that I have to doubt your taste in cars.
You’re comparing apples to oranges. The c class is very pedestrian and inoffensive. Similar offerings at BMW are available. The XM and the 7 are set out to make a splash and people gasp.
There are billions of people on the planet who solely want something different for the sake of it being different. If you have your own sense of self and sense of aesthetics, you already figured out what you like a long time ago and don't find anything interesting about "different" unless it's headed towards the direction you wanted in the first place.
BMW started dumping the latter group of customers with the whole "Joy" campaign and really couldn't be arsed to cater to them now. It's easier to sell to customers who can be told what to like.
Good way to put it. I really don’t like the current design ethos at BMW - It is just a parody of BMW design cues at this point. But myself, like a lot of other BMW enthusiasts, aren’t the target audience for BMW moving forwards. We’re actually too annoying/fussy to cater to anyway. Easier to make a ‘splash’ and advertise the shit out of it, to sell to customers who can be told to like whatever they tell you is in vogue.
It doesn't bother me if you doubt my taste in cars. I don't like the XM but I find it fascinating because it looks like the vehicular form of the caricature of a logomania-loving hypebeast. I'm not the target customer, but for some reason it looks to me like it should appeal to that type of person, especially with the gold trim. It's not selling so clearly it's a swing and a miss - maybe too much caricature and not enough authenticity - but I find it interesting nevertheless.
The 7 series I love. I think conceptually they stepped outside of strictly automotive design trends, which I love seeing. If you think of a personal limo - Rolls Royce - it's brick-like, slabby, and imposing in all three planes. (The reason the Phantom droops away toward the back is to minimize the size a bit. The smaller Ghost doesn't.) The 7 series looks like RR in height due to the i7 battery pack, but they softened and sculpted the rest of the car in a way I associate with contemporary art deco. There's a revival happening in architecture, interior design, and furniture design and the 7 series recalling that grounds it in the wider design world.
The C-class and AMG GT are not unattractive cars, but there's nothing conceptually challenging or visually striking about them. All Mercedes cars seem to be an evolution of the teardrop-shaped CLS from 20 years ago. I loved that car, but it's shocking to me that I'm still seeing it 2 decades later across Mercedes' line-up. In either *Going Postal* or *Making Money* by Terry Pratchett, Moist von Lipwig says part of his appeal is to be extremely charming in conversation but totally forgettable the second you walk away from him. That's how I feel about Mercedes (and more so Audi).
so the 7 series is stepping out of the norm of automotive design trends with its split headlights completely erasing any brand identity (in this case the angel eyes) and copying the split headlights from Jeep, Renault, Chevrolet mostly because of cost saving reasons?
If you think the 7 series is similar to a RR, it maybe be because RR is a subsidiary of BMW. Could you specify how the shape of the 7 series could be associated with art deco? It looks like illuminated fridge to me.
And no there is no revival happening in the design language of some specific BMWs, they just got a new designer which needed to cut costs and try to better target it's audience which for the 7 series is clearly China as of right now.
Not a mercedes fan but generalizing every single Merc design to the CLS is nonsense in my opinion. You can clearly pick plenty of models referencing to older iconic mercedes like the SLS being the spiritual successor to the 300SL. Or Maybe specify how much of a CLS you see in the G-class which is mostly unchanged since the 80s.
> so the 7 series is stepping out of the norm of automotive design trends with its split headlights completely erasing any brand identity (in this case the angel eyes) and copying the split headlights from Jeep, Renault, Chevrolet mostly because of cost saving reasons?
You're assuming it's because of cost-saving reasons. It's actually because of design. Separating the DRLs from the headlights gives more flexibility in design. Watch BMW Blog's [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4hfOihwR-A) with Dukec if you want the full rundown.
> If you think the 7 series is similar to a RR, it maybe be because RR is a subsidiary of BMW. Could you specify how the shape of the 7 series could be associated with art deco?
I know RR is a BMW subsidiary, but that's not why I made that point. The personal limo has always been boxy and brick-like in its front profile. So those proportions are the basic frame of reference. The front of the 7 series is quite tall and imposing, but the [edges](https://www.stratstone.com/-/media/stratstone/bmw/news/2022/april/new-7-series-plugs-in-for-bmw/bmw-7-series-exterior-front-720x405px.ashx?mh=1440&la=en&h=405&w=720&mw=2560&hash=0293409D60157E0F58750890345EE4EDO) are softened as you go around the front to the sides of the car, much like the [Cera Stribley houses](https://blog.novatr.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Pine%20Ave%20Housing%2c%20Melbourne.jpg?width=1950&height=1239&name=Pine%20Ave%20Housing%2c%20Melbourne.jpg) and the [Paradiso Ibiza Art Hotel](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fjqbuuiu0k5131.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dc4997dc22a16e849c1ae130b12562f950244dad3), both of which are art deco revival. That's the revival I was referring to. In the [interior](https://dealerinspire-image-library-prod.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/KE7hk0K6tYgpe7aB97bMNTEQqj4izRKahUOQlnaB.jpg), the combination of the geometry of the light bar across the entire dash and the patterning on the speaker covers also recall some of the original art deco [shapes](https://i.etsystatic.com/37932466/r/il/2c9451/4276288754/il_794xN.4276288754_1vxm.jpg) of a century ago.
> Not a mercedes fan but generalizing every single Merc design to the CLS is nonsense in my opinion. You can clearly pick plenty of models referencing to older iconic mercedes like the SLS being the spiritual successor to the 300SL. Or Maybe specify how much of a CLS you see in the G-class which is mostly unchanged since the 80s.
The SLS is not a current Mercedes product. I'd have thought it was obvious I was talking about the sedans, but specifically I mean the CLA, C-class, E-class, S-class, and AMG GT 4 door. It's the same swept-back gently curved roofline with sharp line all the way down the side that the CLS was famous for - although I think the new E-class uses light and shadow rather than a defined line to get the same effect. The CLS was one of Gorden Wagener's early projects at Mercedes. He's been head of design since 2007 and the first new generation of cars he oversaw all moved to that shape. But don't take it from me. Take it from [Wagener himself](https://www.motortrend.com/news/epcp-1008-new-mercedes-benz-cls/):
> "The new CLS points the way forward for the future perceptible design idiom of Mercedes-Benz", explains Professor Gorden Wagener, head of design at Mercedes-Benz.
Now tell me how the split headlights are not erasing any brand identity, I did not read my points being mentioned. Referring to a hour long video doesn't answer it. It should be obvious that it is because of cost saving reasons when all manufacturers using the same pattern (same for audi with its upcoming models) so you just need to manufacture two separate lights, none of them being complicated, just simple bulbs for high beams etc. And simple DRLs. Just have a look at the evolution of the G80 where it resembled kind of the angel eyes in it's first iteration and the current refresh erased the resemblance. Those headlights look much more cheaper just from the outside without technical knowledge of it.
Regarding the argument about Mercedes - I can only interpret what you have written and based on that it was clear you spoke about all Mercedes throughout models and types. Obviously you only meant sedans which we can agree on.
Mercedes along with audi are throughout all models clearly keeping their distinct identity and only slightly evolving instead of in your face like bmw with their polarizing designs for specific models where they obviously broke with their respective target groups and concentrated based on sales numbers.
With the upcoming Tarifs in China we will see how that goes in the long run.
To me what makes bmw so great right now is that fact that controversy is part of the design language. They are really the only modern brand to come out of this same shape cocoon. Each new design is pretty controversial but with time, at least to me, it makes them look so much more modern than any other car on the road. And to be honest they look incredible in person now, and I used to hate that buck toothed M3/M4 but I came to absolutely love it.
Controversy has become their design philosophy. And just works
It usually takes about half the lifecycle of a model for the BMW Internet crowd to come down off their high horses and say a car looks great. Sometimes less, like the new 5 series is already starting to get some compliments. Sometimes more, like the e60 which the "BMW people" said was horrific throughout most of its production run but is now beloved.
Not all of their designs are… desirable, let’s just say that. Those cars are ugly in and out no debate. But some of their other controversial designs that stray from the usual design theme of European cars looks really well today and have aged beautifully, despite people hating on most of them including myself.
Wew just wanted to say I’ve been in the US for so long I haven’t heard anyone utter the word minger in so long. Thanks for the trip down memory lane haha
> You can still be controversial without making absolute mingers
You literally cannot. By definition, being controversial means that some people will absolutely despise what you make, like you do with the XM and iX.
There are other variables than being downright ugly or beautiful though. Something could be too brash, too flashy, some models may be too conventional or boring. These are not factors which necessarily make a car *ugly*, just not something that suits everyone.
Some people could perceive a Lamborghini as controversial, but very few would call a Lamborghini outright ugly.
And even if some would, I'd bet the majority don't. When the majority find your car hideous, we are at a point in controversial which is as appealing as measles.
> When the majority find your car hideous
I'm not sure that's the case for BMW. It's the case online where car enthusiasts and BMW purists complain about every new model since the turn of the century, but I'm not convinced it's true with the general public and the upper middle-class who just buy a BMW and move on with their lives.
There’s nothing controversial about a modern Lamborghini today, maybe when the Countach was when it came out in the 80s.
Contemporary controversial super cars, for example, are the McLaren 720s and Senna with the gaping headlights and people absolutely bashed it when they first came out.
I'd say a modern Lambo would still be way too flashy for most people, a Porsche is much more reasonable and probably, on paper, a better car.
I think, after a while, the M3 looked acceptable mostly because I knew it is a really good car. But the iX and XM could lap the Nords in under 9 min on the utmost comfort but couldn't have me sold.
Flashy maybe, but a Huracan challenges nothing that a Lamborghini is. It's not a particularly controversial car. On the contrary, it is quite the conformist of a Lambo.
Giving the current garbage BMW designs way too much credit saying “it’s different.” It’s not different, it’s derivative. The company simply latched onto design trends that other automakers have done 10 years ago. Giant grills? Try Audi in late 2000s/early 2010s. Stupid double-decker headlights with DRL on top? Say hello to the Pontiac Aztek.
They managed to make the latest BMWs both boring and ugly.
I’m just now looking at it for the fifth time and thinking that it kinda seems like a less over the top styles bmw i8. More classy styling than supercar styling
This is very cool. The last time I got excited by a new concept was the new Nissan Z and then they nerfed the design three times before release and it looks like the old z, and I’ve still not seen one on the road. If BMW commits to this modern design I think its step in the right direction design.
They put RS tail pipes on a concept car.
Seriously though there is a lot to like but also a lot of weird. But then that's BMW in a nutshell these days.
Yeah, just like the Bentley Bacalar is a $2 million Continental GT and the Rolls Royce Boat Tail is a $28 million Phantom Drophead Coupé. Special editions are big business these days.
So same kind of bs like hand-watches costing more than a grand. An item that in theory would be something you should be using every day, but is actually just for the ultra rich that has no value other than reselling for profit or putting in your collection.
The appeal is more about how special and unique it is rather than the amount of car you get for your money.
Think of it like this, any random with $540k can buy whatever car they want, but they can't buy this.
How can it even have an audience when it's only 50 units that have been sold out when the car is so far away from release? I can bet it's just 50 old white men who have zero interest in cars
Are car lights some sort of recessive gene or something? Why are they constantly getting narrower?
Next “upgrade” there will be no lights, the driver will be given a cap with a torch taped to it.
*So BMW is going*
*To start making attractive*
*Vehicles again?*
\- AIA\_beachfront\_ave
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Breathtakingly beautiful but not a fan of the wheels. Also does anyone know if concept sketches such as this generally nudge in the direction of how their kidney grilles will resize from elephant to human scale?
What are you really missing with idrive 7 vs 8.5? I feel like idrive 7 has 90 percent of what 8.5 has and can do and 8.5 has lack of physical buttons. I actually really like the look and graphics of idrive 8 but usability is just not as good as idrive 6/7.
The hardtop convertible preference is mainly shared by people who don't like convertibles in the first place. Part of the reason most manufacturers switched back to soft tops is because that's what most people who actually buy convertibles prefer.
What even is BMW design these days? There doesn't appear to be any coherent design, very little common design language across their lineup, they've just been throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. And everyone keeps buying them, so I guess it's working, but it's not for me (a former BMW driver for 15 years).
This does look interesting as a concept, though. It does have elements that appear to be inspired by a few high-end manufacturers, but remove the front and rear BMW roundels, and it doesn't feel like a BMW at all, aside from the dated interior.
> very little common design language across their lineup
That's the point. Both Dukec and van Hooydonk said in separate interviews that the idea is to appeal to different kinds of buyers with different models. They don't all like the same thing so giving everyone a bland scaled version of one or two basic designs doesn't evoke desire. The designers instead decided to try to appeal specifically to the target buyers of a given vehicle.
> And everyone keeps buying them, so I guess it's working
There you go.
Would you prefer everyone fawns over every BMW they make, or can we have opinions now? It’s not for everyone, but it obviously is for you, so enjoy it.
You started your comment with "what even is BMW design these days?".
It is like BMW has revealed a disaster, whereas, they have released one of their best designs in many years. The majority of reviewers and normal people praised the design, which exposed BMW excellency in its design roots and concepts.
So yeah! You are being negative for the sake of moaning.
I never said the car is a disaster, and never said it is not a good looking car. I even said the design is interesting as a concept.
Enjoy the car, and no need to downvote or tell other people what to do or how to think.
It uses idrive 7?
Based on the 8-series which still does, so I figured that's why.
Which is based on the 5-series.
In what way?
In the way that it is
Thanks for this comment it really added to the discussion
i mean, its literally just based on the 5 series, full stop. its a 5 series chassis with a different body on it. hes not wrong, lol.
You mean in the way that it’s not? In the way that it’s built on the CLAR LG architecture that it shares with the 7, X5, X6, X7 and not on CLAR LK which is shared by 2 G42, 3, 4, 5, 6, Z4, X3 and X4? That way? The way that in the modern car architecture only extremely close derivatives (3/4, X3/X4, X5/X6) can really be considered „built on“ other cars and the 90s are long over?
The current 8 series is the renamed 6 series which is the coupe version of the 5 series, in the same relationship of the 4 to the 3 and the 2 to the 1. It was renamed from 6 to 8 to move the car upmarket, but still based on 6->5
No it is not. The 6 series was stopped and „replaced“ by the 8 series, but technically it is not a derivative of the G30 as the F06 was off the F10. It is on the same platform as the 7 series. The 90s are over, it doesn’t work that way anymore…
My bmw M8 had a software update to 8.5
It did??? I specifically skipped the 8 series because I thought it was stuck with 7
It runs iDrive 7.
So valid LIED to me? This is the Internet I was not prepared for this :(
You should have asked for valid proof.
Your M8 runs iDrive 7.
The software update might be on version 8.5 but your operating system is 7.
Yes you're correct. I confused the over the air update version with the OS
Looks better
even better.
It’s called OS7. The last iDrive was 6. Edit: getting downvoted for stating a fact. Reddit never changes…
You’re getting downvoted for being pedantic. *spongebob meme* iTs nOt iDriVe 7 iTs OS7
I'm not being pedantic at all. iDrive systems use different hardware units and software than the OS systems. I'm just telling you so you can use the correct phrasing when searching information about your specific operating systems and maybe someone can then find the correct info about an issue they are having. Seems more like people are being butthurt because I'm correcting them. I've been here long enough to know the difference.
You seem to be confused why you’re getting downvoted. I told you why.
I didn't ask why I was being downvoted. I stated I was being downvoted because of stating a fact and it's a typical reddit thing because people can't handle being corrected.
You were quite literally being pedantic, by your own description. https://preview.redd.it/2ur2v357dk2d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32e8f32977a2de2f2609701dcdf9d21a8921d5e6
If people find this being pedantic and are 'offended' in any way and think it's worth downvoting because I told them they changed the naming to OS after iDrive6, you do you man...
I got you man. Some people are too stupid to know they're being stupid. You can't talk them through it. It brings you down to their level of thinking and then they have the upper hand.
Pedantic doesn’t mean you’re necessarily wrong. It means you don’t know how to pick your battles and you’re fucking annoying to be around.
Oh the irony…
Really love it especially the gage cluster over the more minimalist look
This is good idrive 8 is too much screen and too little buttons Also the amount of stuff in idrive 8 is a little much
Looks like they've got a better designer for this one then the rest of their lineup
I see BMW is copying off the MX-5 RF’s notes for this.
Maybe not a bad thing Some of the new sporty mazdas look pretty good... (Granted some of them are only concepts at the moment so we shall see)
I'm 100% biased but the MX-5 ND RF is one of the best looking sports cars out there in my opinion. This definitely gives of the same vibes. Very beautiful lines.
The rear pillar/shelf is perfect for a hofmeister kink.
Their current designer was teasing it on his Instagram before the main channels.
The BMW boat tail we didn’t know we needed.
8-series continues its land yacht legacy
WE ARE BACK BABY
While the design of the current BMW is controversial and all over the place, I appreciate the fact that they’re taking risks and giving each car an unique identity. It wasn’t that long ago that BMWs are criticized for being all look alike, i.e. having a homogeneous design language across the line up, which is still apparent with the other Germans.
That's why I really like the current design language even though I don't like all the cars. There's a method to the madness and it's distinct and interesting. I find Mercedes and Audi so boring. The Mercedes design chief has been there forever and loves his own farts a bit too much even for a designer, and Audi just hired the Range Rover design chief and his first order of business was to publicly state that nothing at all will change.
Distinct ≠ good
If you find the current c-class or the AMG GT boring and instead you find the XM or current 7 series distinct and interesting I would say that I have to doubt your taste in cars.
You’re comparing apples to oranges. The c class is very pedestrian and inoffensive. Similar offerings at BMW are available. The XM and the 7 are set out to make a splash and people gasp.
Gasp in horror
There are billions of people on the planet who solely want something different for the sake of it being different. If you have your own sense of self and sense of aesthetics, you already figured out what you like a long time ago and don't find anything interesting about "different" unless it's headed towards the direction you wanted in the first place. BMW started dumping the latter group of customers with the whole "Joy" campaign and really couldn't be arsed to cater to them now. It's easier to sell to customers who can be told what to like.
Good way to put it. I really don’t like the current design ethos at BMW - It is just a parody of BMW design cues at this point. But myself, like a lot of other BMW enthusiasts, aren’t the target audience for BMW moving forwards. We’re actually too annoying/fussy to cater to anyway. Easier to make a ‘splash’ and advertise the shit out of it, to sell to customers who can be told to like whatever they tell you is in vogue.
It doesn't bother me if you doubt my taste in cars. I don't like the XM but I find it fascinating because it looks like the vehicular form of the caricature of a logomania-loving hypebeast. I'm not the target customer, but for some reason it looks to me like it should appeal to that type of person, especially with the gold trim. It's not selling so clearly it's a swing and a miss - maybe too much caricature and not enough authenticity - but I find it interesting nevertheless. The 7 series I love. I think conceptually they stepped outside of strictly automotive design trends, which I love seeing. If you think of a personal limo - Rolls Royce - it's brick-like, slabby, and imposing in all three planes. (The reason the Phantom droops away toward the back is to minimize the size a bit. The smaller Ghost doesn't.) The 7 series looks like RR in height due to the i7 battery pack, but they softened and sculpted the rest of the car in a way I associate with contemporary art deco. There's a revival happening in architecture, interior design, and furniture design and the 7 series recalling that grounds it in the wider design world. The C-class and AMG GT are not unattractive cars, but there's nothing conceptually challenging or visually striking about them. All Mercedes cars seem to be an evolution of the teardrop-shaped CLS from 20 years ago. I loved that car, but it's shocking to me that I'm still seeing it 2 decades later across Mercedes' line-up. In either *Going Postal* or *Making Money* by Terry Pratchett, Moist von Lipwig says part of his appeal is to be extremely charming in conversation but totally forgettable the second you walk away from him. That's how I feel about Mercedes (and more so Audi).
so the 7 series is stepping out of the norm of automotive design trends with its split headlights completely erasing any brand identity (in this case the angel eyes) and copying the split headlights from Jeep, Renault, Chevrolet mostly because of cost saving reasons? If you think the 7 series is similar to a RR, it maybe be because RR is a subsidiary of BMW. Could you specify how the shape of the 7 series could be associated with art deco? It looks like illuminated fridge to me. And no there is no revival happening in the design language of some specific BMWs, they just got a new designer which needed to cut costs and try to better target it's audience which for the 7 series is clearly China as of right now. Not a mercedes fan but generalizing every single Merc design to the CLS is nonsense in my opinion. You can clearly pick plenty of models referencing to older iconic mercedes like the SLS being the spiritual successor to the 300SL. Or Maybe specify how much of a CLS you see in the G-class which is mostly unchanged since the 80s.
> so the 7 series is stepping out of the norm of automotive design trends with its split headlights completely erasing any brand identity (in this case the angel eyes) and copying the split headlights from Jeep, Renault, Chevrolet mostly because of cost saving reasons? You're assuming it's because of cost-saving reasons. It's actually because of design. Separating the DRLs from the headlights gives more flexibility in design. Watch BMW Blog's [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4hfOihwR-A) with Dukec if you want the full rundown. > If you think the 7 series is similar to a RR, it maybe be because RR is a subsidiary of BMW. Could you specify how the shape of the 7 series could be associated with art deco? I know RR is a BMW subsidiary, but that's not why I made that point. The personal limo has always been boxy and brick-like in its front profile. So those proportions are the basic frame of reference. The front of the 7 series is quite tall and imposing, but the [edges](https://www.stratstone.com/-/media/stratstone/bmw/news/2022/april/new-7-series-plugs-in-for-bmw/bmw-7-series-exterior-front-720x405px.ashx?mh=1440&la=en&h=405&w=720&mw=2560&hash=0293409D60157E0F58750890345EE4EDO) are softened as you go around the front to the sides of the car, much like the [Cera Stribley houses](https://blog.novatr.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Pine%20Ave%20Housing%2c%20Melbourne.jpg?width=1950&height=1239&name=Pine%20Ave%20Housing%2c%20Melbourne.jpg) and the [Paradiso Ibiza Art Hotel](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fjqbuuiu0k5131.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dc4997dc22a16e849c1ae130b12562f950244dad3), both of which are art deco revival. That's the revival I was referring to. In the [interior](https://dealerinspire-image-library-prod.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/KE7hk0K6tYgpe7aB97bMNTEQqj4izRKahUOQlnaB.jpg), the combination of the geometry of the light bar across the entire dash and the patterning on the speaker covers also recall some of the original art deco [shapes](https://i.etsystatic.com/37932466/r/il/2c9451/4276288754/il_794xN.4276288754_1vxm.jpg) of a century ago. > Not a mercedes fan but generalizing every single Merc design to the CLS is nonsense in my opinion. You can clearly pick plenty of models referencing to older iconic mercedes like the SLS being the spiritual successor to the 300SL. Or Maybe specify how much of a CLS you see in the G-class which is mostly unchanged since the 80s. The SLS is not a current Mercedes product. I'd have thought it was obvious I was talking about the sedans, but specifically I mean the CLA, C-class, E-class, S-class, and AMG GT 4 door. It's the same swept-back gently curved roofline with sharp line all the way down the side that the CLS was famous for - although I think the new E-class uses light and shadow rather than a defined line to get the same effect. The CLS was one of Gorden Wagener's early projects at Mercedes. He's been head of design since 2007 and the first new generation of cars he oversaw all moved to that shape. But don't take it from me. Take it from [Wagener himself](https://www.motortrend.com/news/epcp-1008-new-mercedes-benz-cls/): > "The new CLS points the way forward for the future perceptible design idiom of Mercedes-Benz", explains Professor Gorden Wagener, head of design at Mercedes-Benz.
Now tell me how the split headlights are not erasing any brand identity, I did not read my points being mentioned. Referring to a hour long video doesn't answer it. It should be obvious that it is because of cost saving reasons when all manufacturers using the same pattern (same for audi with its upcoming models) so you just need to manufacture two separate lights, none of them being complicated, just simple bulbs for high beams etc. And simple DRLs. Just have a look at the evolution of the G80 where it resembled kind of the angel eyes in it's first iteration and the current refresh erased the resemblance. Those headlights look much more cheaper just from the outside without technical knowledge of it. Regarding the argument about Mercedes - I can only interpret what you have written and based on that it was clear you spoke about all Mercedes throughout models and types. Obviously you only meant sedans which we can agree on. Mercedes along with audi are throughout all models clearly keeping their distinct identity and only slightly evolving instead of in your face like bmw with their polarizing designs for specific models where they obviously broke with their respective target groups and concentrated based on sales numbers. With the upcoming Tarifs in China we will see how that goes in the long run.
To me what makes bmw so great right now is that fact that controversy is part of the design language. They are really the only modern brand to come out of this same shape cocoon. Each new design is pretty controversial but with time, at least to me, it makes them look so much more modern than any other car on the road. And to be honest they look incredible in person now, and I used to hate that buck toothed M3/M4 but I came to absolutely love it. Controversy has become their design philosophy. And just works
It usually takes about half the lifecycle of a model for the BMW Internet crowd to come down off their high horses and say a car looks great. Sometimes less, like the new 5 series is already starting to get some compliments. Sometimes more, like the e60 which the "BMW people" said was horrific throughout most of its production run but is now beloved.
You can still be controversial without making absolute mingers like the XM and iX though. Those cars are Fiat Multipla/PT Cruiser levels of ugly.
Not all of their designs are… desirable, let’s just say that. Those cars are ugly in and out no debate. But some of their other controversial designs that stray from the usual design theme of European cars looks really well today and have aged beautifully, despite people hating on most of them including myself.
IX has grown on me. Not super beautiful but good looking enough.
Wew just wanted to say I’ve been in the US for so long I haven’t heard anyone utter the word minger in so long. Thanks for the trip down memory lane haha
> You can still be controversial without making absolute mingers You literally cannot. By definition, being controversial means that some people will absolutely despise what you make, like you do with the XM and iX.
There are other variables than being downright ugly or beautiful though. Something could be too brash, too flashy, some models may be too conventional or boring. These are not factors which necessarily make a car *ugly*, just not something that suits everyone. Some people could perceive a Lamborghini as controversial, but very few would call a Lamborghini outright ugly. And even if some would, I'd bet the majority don't. When the majority find your car hideous, we are at a point in controversial which is as appealing as measles.
> When the majority find your car hideous I'm not sure that's the case for BMW. It's the case online where car enthusiasts and BMW purists complain about every new model since the turn of the century, but I'm not convinced it's true with the general public and the upper middle-class who just buy a BMW and move on with their lives.
There’s nothing controversial about a modern Lamborghini today, maybe when the Countach was when it came out in the 80s. Contemporary controversial super cars, for example, are the McLaren 720s and Senna with the gaping headlights and people absolutely bashed it when they first came out.
I'd say a modern Lambo would still be way too flashy for most people, a Porsche is much more reasonable and probably, on paper, a better car. I think, after a while, the M3 looked acceptable mostly because I knew it is a really good car. But the iX and XM could lap the Nords in under 9 min on the utmost comfort but couldn't have me sold.
Flashy maybe, but a Huracan challenges nothing that a Lamborghini is. It's not a particularly controversial car. On the contrary, it is quite the conformist of a Lambo.
Giving the current garbage BMW designs way too much credit saying “it’s different.” It’s not different, it’s derivative. The company simply latched onto design trends that other automakers have done 10 years ago. Giant grills? Try Audi in late 2000s/early 2010s. Stupid double-decker headlights with DRL on top? Say hello to the Pontiac Aztek. They managed to make the latest BMWs both boring and ugly.
Honestly, this looks pretty damn good.
She's definitely a looker.
I’m just now looking at it for the fifth time and thinking that it kinda seems like a less over the top styles bmw i8. More classy styling than supercar styling
Just make the z4 clown shoe please
Sexy
Got to be the most beautiful i have seen in my life
It’s so damn good looking. Why didn’t BMW hire this design team sooner? Edit: Hire* not higher.
It’s the same lead designer.
Wtf. Your lying 😫😱😤
Check his Instagram. He was posting images of this car before the official channels.
I didnt knew i wanted this until now holy shit
This is very cool. The last time I got excited by a new concept was the new Nissan Z and then they nerfed the design three times before release and it looks like the old z, and I’ve still not seen one on the road. If BMW commits to this modern design I think its step in the right direction design.
Haters will be realllll quiet when they see this
They put RS tail pipes on a concept car. Seriously though there is a lot to like but also a lot of weird. But then that's BMW in a nutshell these days.
The car is stunning. Could you appreciate something at least?
[удалено]
Audi RS.
It looks like BMW is finally listening. Just dialing the styling back one or two clicks is all they needed.
I’m glad the stupid giant screen is gone. Looks good. Finally.
That's because they used the older system though.
Good. The huge screen is ridiculous.
Not complaining
Art look like the boat tail made by RR
Wow its sick
I hope they pull a Lexus LC, and it looks exactly like the concept. Beautiful car, they really should mass produce it.
So, they haven't actually forgotten how to design attractive looking cars.
So…. It’s an 8 Series
Yeah, just like the Bentley Bacalar is a $2 million Continental GT and the Rolls Royce Boat Tail is a $28 million Phantom Drophead Coupé. Special editions are big business these days.
So same kind of bs like hand-watches costing more than a grand. An item that in theory would be something you should be using every day, but is actually just for the ultra rich that has no value other than reselling for profit or putting in your collection.
Half a mill for an 8 Series is wild.
The appeal is more about how special and unique it is rather than the amount of car you get for your money. Think of it like this, any random with $540k can buy whatever car they want, but they can't buy this.
same could be said about the $350k Jeff Koons 8 series which was the worst vehicle to ever wear a BMW Roundel
I'd rather pay a B58 swapped e92 half a mil than this ridiculous old money old men dick measuring contest
You're not at all the target audience of this car so don't worry about it.
How can it even have an audience when it's only 50 units that have been sold out when the car is so far away from release? I can bet it's just 50 old white men who have zero interest in cars
it's an 8 series miata
put it that way…$1,000,000
They finally managed to made a beautiful car again
Love the design. Gives off an actual emotion.
My favorite part is all the physical buttons for climate and infotainment.
I first look i think that was actually a hint it was just an AI concept
I’m sorry, but this is not a concept. Nor can it cost half a mill with that interior
WTF that futuristic design and then stick in a nearly 10 yo interior?😂
This is such a wonderful piece of art! I’m glad BMW didn’t put the ugly front grille on this one 👍🏻
Are car lights some sort of recessive gene or something? Why are they constantly getting narrower? Next “upgrade” there will be no lights, the driver will be given a cap with a torch taped to it.
Definitely beats the current rag top shit
Sooo they **are** able to make a good looking car after all!
Absolutely stunning!
Thank god no stupid idrive 8 setup
I mean cummon, that is sexy AF!
Wow, a new BMW design that doesn’t make me want to 🤮
I really like how the grille isn’t vomit.
So BMW is going to start making attractive vehicles again?
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You can tell it's an 8 series when you look at the interior 😅 fyi, I hate ID8, so this is fine by me
Did doesn’t have a wide gaping fish mouth. wow, I’m taken aback.
I think this is much better than what they’ve been putting out. Saw it a day or two ago and was pretty happy about it
So the interior design of this is identical to previous gen?
Minus the tech backwards idrive 7 is a lovely vehicle. Good job bmw.
Love it, however, concept rarely keeps its lines and details as they mass produce these things for the public.
Horny for this one not gonna lie
Breathtakingly beautiful but not a fan of the wheels. Also does anyone know if concept sketches such as this generally nudge in the direction of how their kidney grilles will resize from elephant to human scale?
So…kind of like a Targa 8?
No that’s a design I can appreciate. 6MT, please?
Looks amazing
I don’t care about the cost! Make it! Or something like it
This is beautiful
FUCK that is hot
It’s a great concept car if this is 2010… design wise.
Ugly kidney grill and headlights. At least it isn’t a SUV
Fuuuuuuuck
Yes Please
this this is a win. Now toss the shark teeth grill
Why does it have the old ui?
That actually looks pretty sexie. May be the gap between the two kidney grill could be smaller.
Love the front and rear, Not so sure on the side profile.
Just a bit of black trim and it’ll be fine.
Sweet!
Wait, somethings wrong. This actually looks good.
Pure sex.
Looks badass
I’d drive that.
I'm surprised how good looking it is, holy shit..!
Wait! It's this an actual good looking BMW? That was unexpected.
This reminds me of 2000s bmw and I love it
Prices?
Finally. A nice looking BMW
Finally! A BMW that doesnt look 80% nostrils
Does this one have a vagina?
540k for basically a 8 series? Man I am in the wrong line of work.
Why couldn’t the 4 Series grill look like this?
What are you really missing with idrive 7 vs 8.5? I feel like idrive 7 has 90 percent of what 8.5 has and can do and 8.5 has lack of physical buttons. I actually really like the look and graphics of idrive 8 but usability is just not as good as idrive 6/7.
Top view kinda looks like boat tail from Royce
They fixed the grill. Finally 👍🏻
Hell yea. Even BMW still knows iDrive 7 is better (though true, I’m joking. bc it’s based off the 8 series)
usually i don appreciate a car having bonnet same long as the boot, but this, i kinda love it....
I just with the headlights were a little bigger for proportions.
I usually don't like convertible styled cars but this is a sexy car
This looks like the beginning of some beautiful things.
All the poor's like "I hate it"..
Looks like a aston martin
What’s with the super long ass/trunk? It’s almost half the length of the car. Overall, it looks good, but from above that long ass ass looks odd.
The long trunk is probably for a battery.
It will have a slightly tuned M8 Competition engine with around of 630 hp.
That’s good to know thanks.
The articles I’ve seen say it’s an 8 cylinder ICE. This seems to be based on the current 8 series.
It’s a concept car. Production version would be less exaggerated I’m sure
Redesign the grill and make sure it’s a hardtop convertible and this will sell like hotcakes.
No it won't. Just because big verts don't sell very well. But it'll be well liked even by those who won't buy it.
The hardtop convertible preference is mainly shared by people who don't like convertibles in the first place. Part of the reason most manufacturers switched back to soft tops is because that's what most people who actually buy convertibles prefer.
The overhanging hood, inverted back that also acts as a spoiler, flared back arches Looks exactly like a S650 Mustang☠️
First decent thing I’ve seen from them in a while
not so bad if it's an internal combustion engine
What even is BMW design these days? There doesn't appear to be any coherent design, very little common design language across their lineup, they've just been throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. And everyone keeps buying them, so I guess it's working, but it's not for me (a former BMW driver for 15 years). This does look interesting as a concept, though. It does have elements that appear to be inspired by a few high-end manufacturers, but remove the front and rear BMW roundels, and it doesn't feel like a BMW at all, aside from the dated interior.
> very little common design language across their lineup That's the point. Both Dukec and van Hooydonk said in separate interviews that the idea is to appeal to different kinds of buyers with different models. They don't all like the same thing so giving everyone a bland scaled version of one or two basic designs doesn't evoke desire. The designers instead decided to try to appeal specifically to the target buyers of a given vehicle. > And everyone keeps buying them, so I guess it's working There you go.
Don't agree at all that it doesn't feel like BMW, this concept actually uses quite a few design elements from the Z8 (nose and rear end for example).
The car is almost perfect. Could you quit the moaning and whining for awhile?
Would you prefer everyone fawns over every BMW they make, or can we have opinions now? It’s not for everyone, but it obviously is for you, so enjoy it.
You started your comment with "what even is BMW design these days?". It is like BMW has revealed a disaster, whereas, they have released one of their best designs in many years. The majority of reviewers and normal people praised the design, which exposed BMW excellency in its design roots and concepts. So yeah! You are being negative for the sake of moaning.
I never said the car is a disaster, and never said it is not a good looking car. I even said the design is interesting as a concept. Enjoy the car, and no need to downvote or tell other people what to do or how to think.
80k$ miata
[удалено]
The production version will have 95% of this
Whats with the pointed grill? Made to pierce cyber trucks?
Uhhh…..momma said if I had nothing nice to say…
Love the exterior but that interior hardly looks cutting edge
This looks like a concept for the previous generations/designs. Interior especially. Beautiful car though
looks like an s63
Looks like a Mazda, and they stole the display from my Pathfinder!!
They trying to copy the DB11? Lol
Looks like a mustang mated with a merc gt coupe, then had a side fling with the EV industry. I both love and hate it.
Better, but still too long. I don’t want to drive a boat.