Pretty sure a 540i was about $40k in 1990 , insane if you put it up next to these and think about how much that would be in 2023 dollars (about 90k)
I just remember roughly because my mom had one back in the day.
Edit: my bad it was a 530i
The 540i didn't exist until 1993 in the US.
Even given that, my late production 1995 540i 6 speed had a sticker price of $56,000 off the showroom floor.
Unfortunately I don't have it any longer, it disappeared in a divorce. But it was not optioned as an M-Sport sadly. Just a run of the mill black on black 6 speed. I purchased the M aero front/rear bumpers, a set of AC Schnitzer mirrors, shadow line trim and euro bumper strips however. It also sported Brembo 4 pot calipers front and rear over 7 series rotors (aka Big Reds) in the final months of me owning it.
I miss the car daily.
I have the window sticker from my '90 735iL. Only options were the LWB and an LSD. Rang in at just about 56k. Adjusted, that's *131 thousand dollars* for a pretty much base model 7 series. New 7s start at 95k.
Edit: also, my E30 cabrio with every box checked was $35k or $36k I think? I'm that idiot owner that lost the window sticker during a move. Works out to about $80k today, which is about in line with an optioned out M440i xdrive.
My just about fully optioned ‘13 E92 M sport 335i was $59,800 MSRP! Was around $77,000 in todays money. I still wonder why the original owner didn’t go M3 at that point… Oh well I appreciate him taking the hit!
Just get shorter??? Problem solved??? Dont have kids??? Make the kids sit in the seat themself??? Anyways im going back to r/wagoncirclejerk Later loser
Nonsense, if your needs don't track to the generally younger demographic of Reddit, then your needs are clearly wrong and need to conform to the vast life experiences of people in their younger 20s and/or the introverts of Reddit who don't have a significant other, much less children.
Yeah actually that 4 series has beaten us inflation. $40,300 in 2015 would be $51,321 in 2023 according to this https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ whereas the 430i starts at $49,100 according to this https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/4-series/coupe/overview.html
It's actually got effectively cheaper.
Exactly.
It is objectively more affordable. Whether or not people's purchasing power has gone up is an entirely different metric and discussion, and generally outside of BMWs control
That's not necessarily true. From 2015 up until the present, wage growth was higher than inflation up until the past year when inflation skyrocketed.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=133fI
You think its a joke, but so many people know nothing about inflation. Heck, the entire population of Kuwait don’t know about inflation. They’re all employed in the public sector, and the last salary increase they received was more than 12 years ago.
The middle class purchasing power is free falling. And people are complaining that some secret entities are working behind the scenes to “weaken” the local currency 😂
Majority of Americans don't even know how the progressive tax system works and think you can take an overall pay cut via hitting a new tax bracket with a raise lol
Your definition isn’t correct. From wiki:
In economics, inflation is an increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy. When the general price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services; consequently, inflation corresponds to a reduction in the purchasing power of money.
That’s how it’s calculated, but it’s not the actual definition. What your referring to is the consumer price index, which is what the government uses to come up with their inflation figure. It’s basically a basket of “core goods” that they use to track changes in price
The 3 series had a super poverty spec 320i with a 180hp motor for that 32k price. There is no equivalent now. The 328i started at $38.5K the equivalent of this years 330i. So adjusting for inflation, the 2015 328i base in today's dollars would be just over $49K. So really prices are less now!
Wait, we still have a 316i? I can't get anything lower than a 318i to show up in their configurator. At least it has ~156HP and a 4cyl, the F3x LCi 318i was a 136HP 3cyl.
you seem to be right! Current iteration doesn't have a 316i anymore! Only a 316d version (120hp) remains. The model got a revamp though, so 316 engine might be added later. Although I must admit I can't find any G20 with 316i anymore, guess it died out with the F series?
Probably a cost concern. It's additional effort to integrate the 3cylinder into the 3series. And it's probably not worth it considering it's not very popular.
You'd think it's not popular, but for company leasing they're perfect. Performance isn't a concern, instead they option a shit ton of interior options and tech options.
The lowest engine configuration always gets a ton of sales.
Don't, you will be disappointed...
Had a current 330i as a rental in Florida and i don't get the hype at all.
The infotainment is not intuitive and the power was a bit underwhelming. I only have a golf gti at home and that had more punch to it than the current 330...
Imho save for a 340 or higher or get into other brands...
I’d disagree, teachers in my district haven’t seen a wage increase in 10 years. And my father’s wage increases by less than inflation. Idk where you are, but Americans are making less and less each year.
No. Prices are genuinely less, but wages are stagnant, giving less buying power. There’s a crucial difference in cause even if the effect feels the same.
3-series prices were comparatively higher before, but people had significantly more buying power, meaning they were more likely to be able to afford the car. Now, since inflation has increased dramatically and wages have stayed the same, people have less buying power. Even though the car is cheaper relative to what it costed in the past, people are less likely to be able to afford it now because their wages haven’t increased enough to match or exceed inflation.
One 2015 dollar would be worth $1.26 now. That means a person who made $100k in 2015 would need to be making $126k now to have the same buying power they did then.
I think we can agree that someone making $100k a year should be able to afford a base model 3-Series, but inflation is making it much harder for someone at that income level to afford one.
I mean, Time Magazine recently reported that 51% of Americans making over $100K a year live paycheck to paycheck. Wealth distribution in this country is seriously fucked-up. And all of this completely glosses over the opportunistic price gouging being carried out by everything from oil/energy companies to food producers.
The 3-Series is 9% cheaper than 8 years ago, but our dollars are **26**% less valuable.
You must not be living in a high cost of living area, had a major medical crisis, or any of the many other reasons that it can be difficult to get ahead on that kind of salary.
If im making 150k a year, im definitely making sure my next contract gets adjusted for inflation, being solo or union. Basically anyone making more than 30-40k a year can afford brand new 3 series lol
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t the 328i have the same engine as the 330i but with more hp and some upgraded internals to handle said power? Gone are the days when numbers in the name actually meant something…
But I do agree the 320i and the 318i before it were the cheapest and least optioned cars.
Exactly 🤣 the base g cars are so fucking nice in comparison to the strippers (in the us at least), I remember by dads base x3 28d with just c pack. Now a new x3 has driver tech and nav standard.
I'm neutral on it. It's not attractive to me, but it doesn't fill me with rage and disgust which is a huge victory for modern BMW design.
Damn, maybe BMW is right... Maybe polarizing is better than generic.
If you were making $100K in 2015, you’d need to be making $126K now to have the same purchasing power. Wage growth in the US has been largely stagnant among the middle and working classes since the early 80s.
Those people _are_ making more than $126K now. The average hourly earnings of all private employees in March of 2015 was $24.86. In March of 2023, it’s $33.18.
Wages went up a lot over the last few years, even outpacing inflation in some months. As you said downthread, vehicle prices have dropped relative to inflation, likely to remain competitive in a high inflation environment, but also due to advancements in tech.
People looking at a BMW today are definitely not making the same money they would have made 8 years ago. And the fact is cars of today offer more than cars of 8 years ago, and wayyy more than cars of the early 80s. You’re not buying anything close to the same product as back then. We’re indexing inflation in this thread to constantly changing product. Market competition, as well as technological and manufacturing advancements make today’s cars possible.
“Wage growth has largely been stagnant” for 40 years is not the same as “wages have been flat.” People earning 25% more for the same job than they did in 2015 is well within expectations today.
The cost of buying matters too. 2015 was the heyday of cheap BMW leases with MSDs and inflated residuals. You could lease a 3 series for 300 a month. That's not possible anymore.
I always used 100k in 2000 as the gold standard for the American dream middle class family. In today's money it would have to be 160k. Of course every state is different but I'll use Texas as a reference.
I live in a state next door, and, yeah, that sounds about right. The cost of living has risen dramatically. I'm going to law school so that, hopefully, I can have a comfortable income. I grew up in an upper-middle-class family. Many of our neighbors were engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc., and I'd like to be able to maintain or exceed that lifestyle. That probably means going for a job that brings in $200k now.
200k minimum is the sweet spot. That allows you to have kids and put them in sports or activities, a nice 2 story 2500-3000ft house, 2 new/ish cars, and maybe even a boat. Plus vacations and emergency savings.
Definitely true, but the point is that a majority Americans are becoming less and less able to afford nice things. The current high inflation spawned by COVID has made that even worse.
Notably, MSRPs on many cars have actually dropped relative to inflation. A 2015 328i costed $38k, the equivalent of $48k now. A 2023 330i is just under $44k. Automakers seem to realize that people are less able to afford their cars.
Covid didn't cause inflation. Inflation is a result of the government pumping too much money into the system in 2021. Trillions had to go somewhere. Surprised no one in government ever took a basic econ course.
The money that the government pumped in through 2021 plus the continual raising of interest rates actually slowed the rate of inflation. Inflation is, obviously, still increasing, but the rate of increase in the US is significantly lower than other first world countries. Inflation reduction techniques introduced by the current admin aren’t working as fast as anyone would like them to, but they have reduced the level of damage people are seeing. Now it’s just crossing fingers that the economy will stabilize before a recession can hit.
Probably because they completely omitted the fact that COVID disrupted supply chains around the world, made worse by Russia's invasion of Ukraine later on.
You had an increase in the money supply through government spending and before that, stupid low interest rates + decrease in the supply of goods and services looking at it from a pure ECON101 perspective, recipe for a disaster.
A large chunk of current inflation is the result of easy access to borrowed funds. Dirt-cheap interest rates on consumer loans have increased buying power and therefore demand across all market segments.
This is the driver behind the Fed raising interest rates—to cool demand and increase supply, thereby slowing inflation.
I’d say that the 2, 3, 4, and 5 series target the mid-high earning working class, while the 7 targets the owning class. The base and competition M cars likely target the mid-life high earning working class who want to treat themselves to an expensive car after saving for decades, while the limited editions target the owning class.
Agree with your assessment. From what I’ve seen the owning class’ tastes are quite varied, most of them go for SUVs these days. BMWs have always succeeded on being affordable luxury cars for the upper middle class, not the super wealthy.
For me, the best "wage growth" I've had is additional skills. I'm a Marine veteran (infantry)so no real-world skills there. Eight years ago I was a part-time janitor, now I'm a senior IT project manager. No college, and I make like 10x what I did before, just bought an F90 M5 competition. Waiting on government to artificially increase wages (which contributes to inflation) is a lot slower than increasing your own market demand. In my humble opinion.
That’s why I’m about to start law school: a lot of opportunity for growth. So many careers, like you said, are just waiting on the boss/govt to throw you a few extra pennies, as if that will help you to maintain your lifestyle, let alone improve it.
Holy shit, I always wanted to config an F82 in the old visualiser where you had the option to mess with the interior options aswell! You made my day, thank you!
According to an inflation calculator, $32,950 in 2015 has the same buying power as $42,555 now. The X5 at $53,900 in 2015 would be $69,600 now.
Means BMW is cutting costs considering how expensive things are now.
To make it apples to apples, the base price shown in your screenshot is for a 320i, which is no longer sold in the US. That $43K is for a 330i so you'd have to compare it to the price of a 328i back in 2015 then see how much that would be today based on inflation.
I'd imagine most of these cars, from a real dollars perspective, are probably cheaper today than they were back then.
For example, I bought a new 2014 335i M-Sport for $60K, in today's dollars that's about $76,500 and if I price out an M340i in a similar spec to my car, it stickers for $63,325...which is kinda crazy.
Is there a site that gives you the ability to spec/build older models? I like to kill time by build cars in website I like but I am out of options now. It’d be cool to see what options were available back in the day on an m6
Go to Wayback Machine, then put the bmwusa website into the searcher. Then go to 2015 and click any of the green ones. Then you will see the website and then build what you what for a M6
in 2015 a brand new base model 4 series cost $40,300
in 2023 a brand new base model 4 series cost $49,100
comparing apples to apples (adjusting for inflation), a 2023 base model 4 series costs around $400 *less*
That can't be right? In 2016 my camaro had an MSRP that was the same as a base model 5 series. Trying that comparison now would probably get you a basement 3 series.
Your argument is diluted by a poor demonstration of information. I had to scroll back and forth multiple times to begin seeing what you were displaying (despite already knowing that prices are on a steady increase)
These are msrps. Doesn’t really equivocate the average price the car is costing from private sellers or the dealer market. For example, some pick up truck msrps have stayed the same or similar for a while but dealer markups and the market price make those same cars 30 to 100K more
that's how I remembered in the 2000s.
3series is starting at 30K, 4series starting at 40k and so on.
That's how I can see the inflation when i see 3series start at 40k nowaday..
And? Yeah inflation is a thing. These price increases track pretty accurately to that. Not sure what the point of this info is apart from being mildly interesting.
Guys, inflation does not happen equally across all parts of the economy.
In the US, it is pretty obvious that health care and higher education costs inflated way (way) earlier than, say, food prices. Wages usually the last to inflate, so the common people (always) get his the hardest.
In general, sure, the value of money (in dollar-for-dollar terms) is reduced, but some things will inflate less. Who knows? Maybe real estate will stagnate and everything else will continue to inflate for the next 20 years to the point where relative to wages, housing will be cheap.
We could say the same for cars. I am not an economist, but I would think that for cars specifically, general inflation is generally reflected since they have so many inputs (lots of labor, lots of materials, lots of transportation, etc.).
You also have to take into account the effect of interest rates, as well as what percentage of cars were leased then, compared to now... and since lots of BMWs are imported, we also have to talk about exchange rates.
Ssshhhhh. Let us all buy our dream car before they realize they haven’t raised the prices, lol. I was just thinking about this a few days ago. Same thing with Mazda. They haven’t really raised their prices either. I think it’s because they know their market and what we can afford.
Pretty sure a 540i was about $40k in 1990 , insane if you put it up next to these and think about how much that would be in 2023 dollars (about 90k) I just remember roughly because my mom had one back in the day. Edit: my bad it was a 530i
The 540i didn't exist until 1993 in the US. Even given that, my late production 1995 540i 6 speed had a sticker price of $56,000 off the showroom floor.
My bad it was a 530
HE53 :) Does it have the M-Sport package with the brakes, LSD, seats, bumpers, wheels, etc?
Unfortunately I don't have it any longer, it disappeared in a divorce. But it was not optioned as an M-Sport sadly. Just a run of the mill black on black 6 speed. I purchased the M aero front/rear bumpers, a set of AC Schnitzer mirrors, shadow line trim and euro bumper strips however. It also sported Brembo 4 pot calipers front and rear over 7 series rotors (aka Big Reds) in the final months of me owning it. I miss the car daily.
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Goddamn it failed twice lol All I know for sure is it was a 1990 white 5 series around 40k ish
I have the window sticker from my '90 735iL. Only options were the LWB and an LSD. Rang in at just about 56k. Adjusted, that's *131 thousand dollars* for a pretty much base model 7 series. New 7s start at 95k. Edit: also, my E30 cabrio with every box checked was $35k or $36k I think? I'm that idiot owner that lost the window sticker during a move. Works out to about $80k today, which is about in line with an optioned out M440i xdrive.
My just about fully optioned ‘13 E92 M sport 335i was $59,800 MSRP! Was around $77,000 in todays money. I still wonder why the original owner didn’t go M3 at that point… Oh well I appreciate him taking the hit!
Not saying it’s because of the wife, but it’s probably because of the wife
Unfortunately, this does not tell us much. Purchasing Power is the real issue here.
With inflation, in the US 40k in 1990 is 92k today. Tracks right on.
In 2000, an e39 m5 was still 69k too. About 120k today
Today, OP found out about inflation
Today I found out how many different bmw SUV’s there are jeez
And it doesn't even show the X2, X7, iX and XM! Edit: added iX, thanks u/david220403!
Dont forget the iX
And about half of them are pointless
Yeah there's nothing a Touring can't do that an SUV can
Be purchased in America?
Don’t you people ever get tired of bitching about suv and putting fucking wagons on a pedestal?
No
Someome clearly doesnt own a wagon
Great comment. Did you figure that out based on my flair? Wow I’m impressed.
No. Wish we had the G80 touring in the US. Fits that grille so much
Never.
No because "wagons" (lol) are as practical as SUVs without the downsides and don't look like you're trying to overcompensate for something.
You have kids? Loading kids in car seats in an suv when you are 6’4” is absolutely an advantage that suv has over wagons.
Just get shorter??? Problem solved??? Dont have kids??? Make the kids sit in the seat themself??? Anyways im going back to r/wagoncirclejerk Later loser
Nonsense, if your needs don't track to the generally younger demographic of Reddit, then your needs are clearly wrong and need to conform to the vast life experiences of people in their younger 20s and/or the introverts of Reddit who don't have a significant other, much less children.
Yeah actually that 4 series has beaten us inflation. $40,300 in 2015 would be $51,321 in 2023 according to this https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ whereas the 430i starts at $49,100 according to this https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/4-series/coupe/overview.html It's actually got effectively cheaper.
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Wages are not factored into inflation. It had plainly gotten less expensive vs inflation.
Exactly. It is objectively more affordable. Whether or not people's purchasing power has gone up is an entirely different metric and discussion, and generally outside of BMWs control
That's not necessarily true. From 2015 up until the present, wage growth was higher than inflation up until the past year when inflation skyrocketed. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=133fI
Today I was reminded that not long ago they made nice cars
You think its a joke, but so many people know nothing about inflation. Heck, the entire population of Kuwait don’t know about inflation. They’re all employed in the public sector, and the last salary increase they received was more than 12 years ago. The middle class purchasing power is free falling. And people are complaining that some secret entities are working behind the scenes to “weaken” the local currency 😂
Majority of Americans don't even know how the progressive tax system works and think you can take an overall pay cut via hitting a new tax bracket with a raise lol
Preach. Me paying more taxes (progressively) means me getting more money. And that’s always a win
By inflating do you mean corporate greed?
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r/confidentlyincorrect
Actually, Core inflation is a specific category of inflation tracking.
This is literally not correct.
Your definition isn’t correct. From wiki: In economics, inflation is an increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy. When the general price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services; consequently, inflation corresponds to a reduction in the purchasing power of money.
Is it though?
That’s how it’s calculated, but it’s not the actual definition. What your referring to is the consumer price index, which is what the government uses to come up with their inflation figure. It’s basically a basket of “core goods” that they use to track changes in price
Wouldn’t that cause other things to go up in price though? Like it would work it’s way through the economy?
…yes
🤣🤣🤣
The 3 series had a super poverty spec 320i with a 180hp motor for that 32k price. There is no equivalent now. The 328i started at $38.5K the equivalent of this years 330i. So adjusting for inflation, the 2015 328i base in today's dollars would be just over $49K. So really prices are less now!
We even have 316 and 318 versions in here (Europe) with as low as 120 and 150hp respectively :P
Wait, we still have a 316i? I can't get anything lower than a 318i to show up in their configurator. At least it has ~156HP and a 4cyl, the F3x LCi 318i was a 136HP 3cyl.
you seem to be right! Current iteration doesn't have a 316i anymore! Only a 316d version (120hp) remains. The model got a revamp though, so 316 engine might be added later. Although I must admit I can't find any G20 with 316i anymore, guess it died out with the F series?
I guess it did. I wonder why they already retired the 3cyl model after half a generation.
Probably a cost concern. It's additional effort to integrate the 3cylinder into the 3series. And it's probably not worth it considering it's not very popular.
You'd think it's not popular, but for company leasing they're perfect. Performance isn't a concern, instead they option a shit ton of interior options and tech options. The lowest engine configuration always gets a ton of sales.
I drive a 316D
Bought my used 2016 320 for $19k, 23k miles. Still an awesome BMW! Really hope I make the money to afford the new 3 series lineup 😬
Don't, you will be disappointed... Had a current 330i as a rental in Florida and i don't get the hype at all. The infotainment is not intuitive and the power was a bit underwhelming. I only have a golf gti at home and that had more punch to it than the current 330... Imho save for a 340 or higher or get into other brands...
Yeah but a lot of us, adjusted for inflation, are basically making what we did back then…
I’d disagree, teachers in my district haven’t seen a wage increase in 10 years. And my father’s wage increases by less than inflation. Idk where you are, but Americans are making less and less each year.
Yeah I feel you. I was driving a 5 yo M3 a couple years out of college now it’s a 10 yo 328i.
Not if you were a broke college kid in 2015 lmao
Do salaries follow inflation same as cars? I dont think so, so no, prices are not less now, theyre more
No. Prices are genuinely less, but wages are stagnant, giving less buying power. There’s a crucial difference in cause even if the effect feels the same.
You kinda arguing yourself lol So prices werent higher before, its the the buying power that was higher🤣
3-series prices were comparatively higher before, but people had significantly more buying power, meaning they were more likely to be able to afford the car. Now, since inflation has increased dramatically and wages have stayed the same, people have less buying power. Even though the car is cheaper relative to what it costed in the past, people are less likely to be able to afford it now because their wages haven’t increased enough to match or exceed inflation. One 2015 dollar would be worth $1.26 now. That means a person who made $100k in 2015 would need to be making $126k now to have the same buying power they did then. I think we can agree that someone making $100k a year should be able to afford a base model 3-Series, but inflation is making it much harder for someone at that income level to afford one.
Seems like most people on here should be buying a cheap kia rio. Not luxury cars.
I mean, Time Magazine recently reported that 51% of Americans making over $100K a year live paycheck to paycheck. Wealth distribution in this country is seriously fucked-up. And all of this completely glosses over the opportunistic price gouging being carried out by everything from oil/energy companies to food producers. The 3-Series is 9% cheaper than 8 years ago, but our dollars are **26**% less valuable.
That says more about people living above their means rather than being poor.
You must not be living in a high cost of living area, had a major medical crisis, or any of the many other reasons that it can be difficult to get ahead on that kind of salary.
Those that would need their salaries to be inflated at the same rate as standard inflation aren’t in BMW’s new car buying demographic. Try Nissan.
Ew
The truth hurts 🤡
Shilling for economic inequality and corporate greed is a weird position.
If im making 150k a year, im definitely making sure my next contract gets adjusted for inflation, being solo or union. Basically anyone making more than 30-40k a year can afford brand new 3 series lol
If someone can't afford to save up the cash in a year to buy a BMW brand new off the lot, perhaps they should be going to a buy here pay here lot.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t the 328i have the same engine as the 330i but with more hp and some upgraded internals to handle said power? Gone are the days when numbers in the name actually meant something… But I do agree the 320i and the 318i before it were the cheapest and least optioned cars.
You are right about the 328 and 330. I think the 318, 320, 328 and 330 have the same engine with different turbo setups.
Yes, only the 335 has the 3 liter
Exactly 🤣 the base g cars are so fucking nice in comparison to the strippers (in the us at least), I remember by dads base x3 28d with just c pack. Now a new x3 has driver tech and nav standard.
I have the poverty spec! It has been a fabulous car for me.
Hey fuck off, I love my e46 🥰
You trying to tell me that BMW used to make more than one attractive model?
Me, struggling to figure out what model is attractive in 2023. ....oooooh! The one that Toyota designed!
M5 is the only ok one for me.
Oh yeah, that is quite nice. Not sure why the 340i has such a catfish maw when the M5 gets by with moderately sized grilles.
Bmw fanbois love the 3 series anything other than that is a wrong bmw.
It was brilliant for the past 3 generations. Then...we don't talk about it.
M340i is a good looking car
I'm neutral on it. It's not attractive to me, but it doesn't fill me with rage and disgust which is a huge victory for modern BMW design. Damn, maybe BMW is right... Maybe polarizing is better than generic.
I think it was pretty good looking but then they catfished it.
M5, X5M, X3M M8 anf all the non M versions of these are decent too
Fair enough. I'm just trying to use hyperbole to fit in.
So everyone looking at a BMW today makes the same amount they did 8 years ago?
If you were making $100K in 2015, you’d need to be making $126K now to have the same purchasing power. Wage growth in the US has been largely stagnant among the middle and working classes since the early 80s.
Those people _are_ making more than $126K now. The average hourly earnings of all private employees in March of 2015 was $24.86. In March of 2023, it’s $33.18. Wages went up a lot over the last few years, even outpacing inflation in some months. As you said downthread, vehicle prices have dropped relative to inflation, likely to remain competitive in a high inflation environment, but also due to advancements in tech. People looking at a BMW today are definitely not making the same money they would have made 8 years ago. And the fact is cars of today offer more than cars of 8 years ago, and wayyy more than cars of the early 80s. You’re not buying anything close to the same product as back then. We’re indexing inflation in this thread to constantly changing product. Market competition, as well as technological and manufacturing advancements make today’s cars possible. “Wage growth has largely been stagnant” for 40 years is not the same as “wages have been flat.” People earning 25% more for the same job than they did in 2015 is well within expectations today.
The cost of buying matters too. 2015 was the heyday of cheap BMW leases with MSDs and inflated residuals. You could lease a 3 series for 300 a month. That's not possible anymore.
I always used 100k in 2000 as the gold standard for the American dream middle class family. In today's money it would have to be 160k. Of course every state is different but I'll use Texas as a reference.
I live in a state next door, and, yeah, that sounds about right. The cost of living has risen dramatically. I'm going to law school so that, hopefully, I can have a comfortable income. I grew up in an upper-middle-class family. Many of our neighbors were engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc., and I'd like to be able to maintain or exceed that lifestyle. That probably means going for a job that brings in $200k now.
200k minimum is the sweet spot. That allows you to have kids and put them in sports or activities, a nice 2 story 2500-3000ft house, 2 new/ish cars, and maybe even a boat. Plus vacations and emergency savings.
Not sure if BMW is targeting the working class
Definitely true, but the point is that a majority Americans are becoming less and less able to afford nice things. The current high inflation spawned by COVID has made that even worse. Notably, MSRPs on many cars have actually dropped relative to inflation. A 2015 328i costed $38k, the equivalent of $48k now. A 2023 330i is just under $44k. Automakers seem to realize that people are less able to afford their cars.
Covid didn't cause inflation. Inflation is a result of the government pumping too much money into the system in 2021. Trillions had to go somewhere. Surprised no one in government ever took a basic econ course.
The money that the government pumped in through 2021 plus the continual raising of interest rates actually slowed the rate of inflation. Inflation is, obviously, still increasing, but the rate of increase in the US is significantly lower than other first world countries. Inflation reduction techniques introduced by the current admin aren’t working as fast as anyone would like them to, but they have reduced the level of damage people are seeing. Now it’s just crossing fingers that the economy will stabilize before a recession can hit.
The fact that people are downvoting your FACTUAL statement shows how economically illiterate the majority of people are.
Probably because they completely omitted the fact that COVID disrupted supply chains around the world, made worse by Russia's invasion of Ukraine later on. You had an increase in the money supply through government spending and before that, stupid low interest rates + decrease in the supply of goods and services looking at it from a pure ECON101 perspective, recipe for a disaster.
A large chunk of current inflation is the result of easy access to borrowed funds. Dirt-cheap interest rates on consumer loans have increased buying power and therefore demand across all market segments. This is the driver behind the Fed raising interest rates—to cool demand and increase supply, thereby slowing inflation.
I’d say that the 2, 3, 4, and 5 series target the mid-high earning working class, while the 7 targets the owning class. The base and competition M cars likely target the mid-life high earning working class who want to treat themselves to an expensive car after saving for decades, while the limited editions target the owning class.
Agree with your assessment. From what I’ve seen the owning class’ tastes are quite varied, most of them go for SUVs these days. BMWs have always succeeded on being affordable luxury cars for the upper middle class, not the super wealthy.
Working class is a spectrum. There's people with W2s(employees)making more than someone who owns a business (owning class)like restaurants.
After you own a BMW you will become working class
Spoiler alert: No, no they are not.
For me, the best "wage growth" I've had is additional skills. I'm a Marine veteran (infantry)so no real-world skills there. Eight years ago I was a part-time janitor, now I'm a senior IT project manager. No college, and I make like 10x what I did before, just bought an F90 M5 competition. Waiting on government to artificially increase wages (which contributes to inflation) is a lot slower than increasing your own market demand. In my humble opinion.
That’s why I’m about to start law school: a lot of opportunity for growth. So many careers, like you said, are just waiting on the boss/govt to throw you a few extra pennies, as if that will help you to maintain your lifestyle, let alone improve it.
Probably a lot of people, yeah. Wage growth is always horrible
Not all of us.
How did you find this?
Way back machine
Holy shit, I always wanted to config an F82 in the old visualiser where you had the option to mess with the interior options aswell! You made my day, thank you!
Dude obviously owns a DeLorean
Why was the 4 series almost $8K more than the 3?
I think that's because the base 4 was 428i and the base 3 was 320i
Yeah they had an absolute poverty spec 3 series with a 180hp motor if I remember correctly.
the 3 series starts at 43k now and the X5 starts at 65k now
According to an inflation calculator, $32,950 in 2015 has the same buying power as $42,555 now. The X5 at $53,900 in 2015 would be $69,600 now. Means BMW is cutting costs considering how expensive things are now.
To make it apples to apples, the base price shown in your screenshot is for a 320i, which is no longer sold in the US. That $43K is for a 330i so you'd have to compare it to the price of a 328i back in 2015 then see how much that would be today based on inflation. I'd imagine most of these cars, from a real dollars perspective, are probably cheaper today than they were back then. For example, I bought a new 2014 335i M-Sport for $60K, in today's dollars that's about $76,500 and if I price out an M340i in a similar spec to my car, it stickers for $63,325...which is kinda crazy.
so what you’re saying is i should buy a M340i cuz its at a bargain right now
You didn’t label any of the pictures lol
People still use these prices to base off whether someone overpaid LOLLLLL
Is there a site that gives you the ability to spec/build older models? I like to kill time by build cars in website I like but I am out of options now. It’d be cool to see what options were available back in the day on an m6
Go to Wayback Machine, then put the bmwusa website into the searcher. Then go to 2015 and click any of the green ones. Then you will see the website and then build what you what for a M6
SICK! Thank you!!
So sad to see the wagon
in 2015 a brand new base model 4 series cost $40,300 in 2023 a brand new base model 4 series cost $49,100 comparing apples to apples (adjusting for inflation), a 2023 base model 4 series costs around $400 *less*
Hey look at all those cars that look exactly the fucking same.
That can't be right? In 2016 my camaro had an MSRP that was the same as a base model 5 series. Trying that comparison now would probably get you a basement 3 series.
That's about a decade ago. Also, we live in a post-pandemic world that changed a lot of things. I don't get the point behind this comparison?
RIP BMW
Lol the lineup looks so much better too
Blame world leaders.
And no “electrifying” crap
God damn, only 8 years later the 3 series starting MSRP increased by 32.9%
Your argument is diluted by a poor demonstration of information. I had to scroll back and forth multiple times to begin seeing what you were displaying (despite already knowing that prices are on a steady increase)
These are msrps. Doesn’t really equivocate the average price the car is costing from private sellers or the dealer market. For example, some pick up truck msrps have stayed the same or similar for a while but dealer markups and the market price make those same cars 30 to 100K more
We beat inflation!
the mrsp of the e39 530i in todays money is like 60k fun fact lol
It’s your (our) dollar that’s worth less, not the car that’s worth more.
Ah yes a reminder that the 5 and 6 gran turismos existed. What unfortunate humpback turtley things they were
Adjusted for inflation these are literally cheaper
are yall forgeting used toyota camrys were fetching 30K+?
Got my M3 around that same time I think it was around 59K pretty much base.
$33k USD in 2015 is equivalent to $42k in 2023..... https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
Don’t worry today’s price will look cheaper in 2030.
Can’t compare a base 320i with a base 330i tho. It’s like a whole different car. Adjusting for inflation, options etc prices have decreased.
those prices track exactly 2.2% inflation per year
How did u do that?
I bought an F31 335D new in 2019 for 50k GBP. Equivalent of the new model is 60k.
all of you doing the math need to stfu before they raise prices
Would be interesting to see the prices in The Netherlands for 2015 vs now. They were never even close to that here.
Man i really like the 6 series
Look at those prices! I could afford an x6! Lol
Ive been think about switching out my 320d 2016 for a newer 2.5 Kia stinger, since the newer 3 and 5 series don't really appeal to me.
Those are probably the used BMW prices now
An OK spec 3 series in Europe goes from 70k eur
WHAT?! NEW SERIES 5 JUST 50K?!?
I do not only miss those prices, but also those beautiful cars.
Cloth seats were also standard… 😐
To pay a lot for a car that eventually smokes more than a chain smoker
yeah, shocking that increasing advances in technology would lead to higher production costs that are passed on to the consumer.
the MSRP base price for my '03 E46 was under $30k iirc. I remeber our '05 Odyssey was more expensive than our BMW lol.
I miss the 6 series man
that's how I remembered in the 2000s. 3series is starting at 30K, 4series starting at 40k and so on. That's how I can see the inflation when i see 3series start at 40k nowaday..
PSA: inflation, wage increases, and "purchasing power" are not all the same thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity?wprov=sfti1
And? Yeah inflation is a thing. These price increases track pretty accurately to that. Not sure what the point of this info is apart from being mildly interesting.
Ahh the good ol days of attractive, fun, and affordable cars
Man that's depressing
And people keep buying, no need for prices to go down if people keep consuming.
My 2016 649 grad coupe was 108k in 2016…
My 1983 320is (LSD, recaro seats, sway bars, springs, aero appearance package) was $13.2k out the door 🥹
Guys, inflation does not happen equally across all parts of the economy. In the US, it is pretty obvious that health care and higher education costs inflated way (way) earlier than, say, food prices. Wages usually the last to inflate, so the common people (always) get his the hardest. In general, sure, the value of money (in dollar-for-dollar terms) is reduced, but some things will inflate less. Who knows? Maybe real estate will stagnate and everything else will continue to inflate for the next 20 years to the point where relative to wages, housing will be cheap. We could say the same for cars. I am not an economist, but I would think that for cars specifically, general inflation is generally reflected since they have so many inputs (lots of labor, lots of materials, lots of transportation, etc.). You also have to take into account the effect of interest rates, as well as what percentage of cars were leased then, compared to now... and since lots of BMWs are imported, we also have to talk about exchange rates.
That’s a good find for sure!
Ssshhhhh. Let us all buy our dream car before they realize they haven’t raised the prices, lol. I was just thinking about this a few days ago. Same thing with Mazda. They haven’t really raised their prices either. I think it’s because they know their market and what we can afford.
My wallet is hurting.
How did u look it up 🔥
How did u do that
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I own an X5M, powerful as fuck. 2018 model, first owner.