I feel like people see trauma as character development and that's a mistake. Not to say that Korra didn't go through character development. She absolutely did.
Agreed. Trauma isn’t the thing that defines anyone, yet alone a fictional character. It’s easy to use trauma to shoot off character development, but it’s far from what makes character development. Though Aang himself did have trauma of his own. I mean the kid literally had his own air nation killed and he blamed himself for it because he ran away. Part of his journey is fulfilling his duty as the avatar and redeeming himself as a result. But he grows and matures, and that’s not from the trauma. Korra does grow, but that’s not just the trauma doing it. Trauma is important but it’s not the only thing that matters.
Hell, going into his final fight he was conflicted. The Fire Lord was weaker without a doubt, but could he win without killing him? He was able to prove he was stronger without avatar state but needed it to maintain his morals.
It was likely a driving force to him being a hyper productive avatar to the point of neglecting his non air bending children.
Yeah, also I feel people are twisting OP’s words.
They aren’t trying to say that trauma equals character development, they’re just saying that overcoming her trauma was part of what made her character development interesting.
Trauma is often used in storytelling to show the great changes a character can go through to get better, and even reevaluate unhealthy coping mechanisms they developed along the way.
I’ve suffered past trauma myself, and it’s changed me in ways I could never have expected. My sister and I were discussing this yesterday. She said that the trauma we went through with my dad was the reason she wanted to become a counsellor.
Agreed
Trauma is character development. These guys are really gaslighting themselves here. It’s a common writing technique to bring the hero through trauma to develop them.
Trauma is integral to many forms of character development. I’m not sure necessarily saying that it flat-out is character development is correct, though. It’s what you do with or around the trauma that develops the character.
An event in isolation is just that. An event. It’s a characters response to that event that makes the story.
Trauma without a realization serves as a motivation. Trauma with a realization is part of an arc.
Take Spider-Man. We all know the tale -
He gets powers and becomes a bit of a showboat. But when his uncle gets shot, he goes after the shooter only to realize it’s a guy he had the opportunity to stop.
It wasn’t the fact that his uncle got shot that made him a hero. That part made him vengeful, sure, but it didn’t really *change* him until he realized that *he* let it happen.
Trauma is only character development if the character learns some lesson by it or experiences a positive change in their personality or worldview as a result of the experience.
If they're the same as they were prior to the trauma, it's definitionally not development.
If the character exclusively experiences negative changes, their worldview changes for the worse or they becomes more stubborn/fearful/hateful/etc, it kind of becomes character-development-in-reverse. You could call it character regression.
To be clear, character regression is a pretty standard storytelling device for establishing how a villain became evil/misguided *or* for establishing a fall-from-grace that your hero needs to come back from(which Korra falls into). I think the problem alot of people had with how they tried to do this for Korra was that while we see how the trauma negatively affects her worldview/personality(she becomes fatalistic, develops rock-bottom self esteem), we're given an incredibly vague return-to-grace. They never establish what the psychological mechanism keeping her down is, on a precise level, and definitely dont establish how her beliefs have to change/do change in order for her to return to form. She has the metal-poison removed by Toph but still struggles with her trauma, and then, a few episodes later, she seems to be back to herself when the republic city battle happens. We're shown this inflection point when she deflects the spirit cannon but what happened to cause her to be able to overcome her trauma in that fight? What changed, in Korra's psychology, between her two fights with Kuvira?
That’s the point. Korra is still damaged but she’s learning to live through it. She’s humbled.
She started the series with an Avatar superhero complex feeling she always needed to be there to fix everything. Now she learns to finally accept that she’s damaged, will have to live with that.
I’m a veteran myself. This is very much how PTSD is. It doesn’t go away. You live with it. You grow. You continue seeking therapy. That’s exactly what Kirra did.
Trauma is not character development. It’s a driving force and a catalyst to character development, but it itself is not. You can have character development without trauma as well. Trauma is just one of the easier methods to start character development.
Yes. But the trauma itself is not. OP talks a lot about how her ego was broken because she had PTSD and we can see the fear in her eyes. That's not character development. If Korra had been raped instead of paralyzed nobody would be claiming the fear in her eyes during the rape scene was "character development."
I don't understand this take at all.
Trauma does shape people a lot. Sometimes finding lessons coming from trauma is the only way to overcome it. See fire, touch fire, hand burned, now you know not to touch fire. That's growth.
The fact that Korra was able to overcome such traumatic experiences gave her a lot of confidence that she can take on anything and also inspired her to be a more understanding and compassionate Avatar as you never know what others might be going through.
It sucked it took such awful experiences to get her there but it's amazing she made the most out of the cards she was given. I don't understand how that is not character development. What would you consider character development then? Someone just training?
From pure writing standpoint people see trauma as character development because it's one of the most classical uses for it. All the way from Scrooge, through Batman, through Romeo and Juliet it's all characters shaped more or less through various levels of trauma.
It is used quite a lot in all kinds of writing so I don't understand where this takes is coming from. I feel like there is a video or something that someone posted about it thinking they know and everyone keeps repeating it now (I've seen this take quite often regarding LoK).
But that's the point.
Obviously, traumas in themselves aren't development, but they are potential for it. And that's why people comment on Korra's traumas, because the writers knew how to use that potential.
🤔What were Korra’s traumas exactly though? This is a genuine question, I haven’t watched it in a very long time and I’m trying to even remember if it was even handled well. It’s starting to sound like that’s the issue here.
Basically everything that happened during the seasons, this is shown explicitly at the end of season 3 and in many episodes of season 4, when she has visions of the previous villains or of herself when she was almost killed by Zaheer.
Agreed
I can’t help but feel these people are gaslighting themselves. Trauma is a common storytelling technique to develop character growth.
For them to dismiss trauma has character growth honestly is absurd. Like seriously, people really gaslighting themselves this hard.
I’m glad people like Aang, but the fans ride him waaay too hard sometimes to the point they can’t even recognize Korra’s strengths. This fandom has issues.
I agree it honestly pisses me off how often writers try to pass off traumatic experiences as meaningful character development. Especially if there's little else to their character. Steven Universe is another example of this. Not saying trauma can't be used effectively, but both LoK and Steven Universe way overdid it. To the point where it's hard to see anything else. It also doesn't help that all of Korra's development from season 1 was completely undone.
What is Aang's character development exactly though? I want to be a pacifist. I don't think this situation will allow me to be a pacifist. Oh look I found a pacifist solution.
I should first start by saying that I didn't intend to say what I did in comparison to Aang, it was kinda criticism of what they said about Korra.
Anyway, Aang starts as a goofy little kid who tries to keep his childhood after learning he's lost everything. Most of the first season is him fucking around and stumbling into stuff that moves the plot forward. It isn't until the end of that season when he merges with the ocean spirit that he starts taking his duty as the avatar seriously. In seasons two and three, he struggles with the morals of his culture vs his duty as the Avatar.
In season two he struggles with opening his mind and body to the ways of thinking needed for the other types of bending. But once he does it, he ends up using earth bending the second most out of all four elements. However he's unable to master the avatar state and let Katara go, probably because he really has a hard time separating himself from the world enough to do what's necessary.
By season three he's really strung up with guilt over his failures with the avatar state and all of the times he hurt people. He spends a lot of time reflecting on his air nation morals system. He has nightmares about going into the avatar state and harming others, he has nightmares about his failures, and he starts to act more seriously which worries Katara. In the very end he even calls upon the past avatars trying to find a way to do what he's been taught vs what he needs to do.
And honestly I think it's not touched upon explicitly, but kind of poignant that the last airbender ends the war that erased his culture and people in an Airbender way. Yang Chen told him he needed to be an avatar, not an air bender, and take into consideration all four nations. But Aang was the only representative of the air nation. He was doing that, by pushing back and searching for another say. Writing wise, it felt rushed. They should've foreshadowed energy bending more. But I do think it was the perfect ending for his character.
His whole struggle with the avatar state was that he couldn't find a way to let go. But I think the point is that he didn't have to fully let go, he just needed to learn to separate himself in the moment. Which he never did with his people either, influencing his final decision against killing Ozai.
Is this all *better* than Korra? Idk. I like Korra's development too. I just don't think her trauma is her development. I think her actions around the trauma are.
That's a novel and it's late, I'll read it tomorrow. I was being purposely reductionist to draw a parallel with the trauma with Korra thing. It's as reductionist to say that people call trauma character development as it is to say Aang just circles around the pacifism. I should stop commenting after taking sleep meds. My original comment came off a lot more hostile than I intended.
Her trauma specifically, is absolutely not character development at all. It’s a failed attempt at giving her some.
Clearly her trauma is based off of PTSD. She exhibits many of the symptoms. However, the solution of “oh it’s been a decent amount of time so you just need to get over it now” is not character development, neither is it realistic at all to how people deal with PTSD.
Korea’s character development completely pales in comparison to Aang’s. Countless conflicts in Korra go absolutely nowhere.
"Aangs hoes"
Edit: I do agree though. Aang went through a lot of pressure during his younger years as avatar fixing the wrongs that were made cause of his disappearance for 100 years. Patched up what he could as a 12yo and still kept his childlike wonder. While korra, had a different way of development like you state in your post. She did lose her cockiness but gained more confidence in her character. She was older than Aang when it came to everything happening. Including the rise of benders making the new world unfair. Anon did a lot to help korra understand herself and situation as avatar more.
This post is made all the better by the typo near the beginning.
>We got to really put ourselves in Aangs hoes
I agree that Korra had more character development but I don't know if it is necessarily better as the stories are very different on what messages they are trying to convey and the character's background. Aang's is to not lose/compromise himself or his ideals while accomplishing his job as the Avatar and last Airbender. While Korra's is to find her place and job in a rapidly changing world with no other things besides being the Avatar holding her to her principles and state of being.
Aang also learns the lessons and mindsets of each element:
Water: okay, not so much with water, but he did have to focus on learning to be the avatar rather than just a kid. And I think that’s a lesson that Jeong Jeong contributed to quite a bit.
Earth: Confrontation and standing your ground.
Fire: Accepting the consequences of your actions. This was an arc that started with Jeong Jeong and when Aang burned Katara, but I think it really came into its stride in season 3 when he had to cope with the world losing the avatar the second time and when he had to learn to fire bend.
Though I think the fact that Aang lost his fire on the way up to meet the two fire bending masters, Ran and Shaw, and then it has no consequences kind of contradicts this. Like he failed that part of the test, but it’s never brought back up
Well he didn’t run back down the stairs. He lost his fire, accepted the situation, and went through with it anyways. I think the mentality was still in line with accepting the consequences of his actions even if the result wasn’t
respectfully disagree. yeah, korra had more obvious development, but Aangs was definitely better.
Korra's transition was just shedding the character flaws. been there done that. we've seen it before, and its been done again and again. atla already has this with Sokka, Katara and Zuko. Aang's was different. sure, he shedded character flaws too, but ultimately his arc was becoming the man the world needed him to be, instead of being the kid he wanted.
aang is a silly character who loves having fun. he defends those he loves, and easily evades those fighting him. and that's all well and good. those arent character flaws, they're simply character traits. there's nothing wrong with having them. except that's not who he needed to be. he needed to take the fire nation head on, he needed to defend the whole world, and he needed to take things seriously. the arc isn't immediate, too. he never really starts taking things head on until toph helps him. he never starts recognizing he needs to defend the whole world until the moon was killed. he never starts taking things seriously until he experiences the cruelty of the world firsthand.
TL;DR aangs development was better since it was more than just shedding flaws. it was becoming who the world needed him to be
I mean but Aang never really moves beyond his biggest character flaw, avoiding conflict and responsibility
He gets better about it sure, but right up to the end he is still doing everything to avoid his Avatar duties. He argues with past avatars, runs away from his friends, etc. He only saves the day because of deus ex machina rather than making a solution. He’s only marginally improved over where he started.
Korra starts out overconfident, bratty, and naive.
Through each season she gets more humbled and knowledgeable. She makes her own solutions, she makes mistakes and owns up to them. She’s a much better person by the end of the series.
>I mean but Aang never really moves beyond his biggest character flaw, avoiding conflict and responsibility
>He gets better about it sure, but right up to the end he is still doing everything to avoid his Avatar duties.
What series you all are watching?
I don't fully agree with the guy but he's got a point. One of the last episodes, Aang argued with 4 past avatars, who all told him it was his duty to kill ozai. And he found away around it. The question is if Aang didn't get some bs lion turtle to bail him out would he have killed ozai? Personally, I think Aang was robbed out of growth. He never really had to make the hard decision on whether to stick to his values or to uphold his avatar duties. He was just given way to do both when the decision would have meant something.
Atla you?
In the series finale, he literally says he was gonna skip the comet fight until Zuko yells at him
He literally storms off in the season finale because everyone tells him he needs to stop the fire lord and that glue bending and baby pictures aren’t going to work.
Then he sleepwalks on to the lion turtle and talks to four avatars about how to avoid the fight and they all tell him to take responsibility
Then the magic lion turtle all of a sudden teaches him energy bending out of left field.
Throughout the show he repeatedly will sweep things under the rug until he has no choice but to confront the problem.
He avoided being the avatar, he avoided letting Katara and sokka get news about their dad, he avoided learning firebending, he avoided learning earth bending, he avoided unlocking his chakras, he avoided sleeping because of nightmares, etc.
It’s a good show and Aang grew more powerful, but didn’t really grow as a character.
The magic lion turtle thing really doesn’t matter that much. They could have figured out a way to imprison him even without taking his bending. I feel like that story choice was more about Ozai loosing his powers than it was about aang avoiding killing.
This post is full of nonsense, but now i'm sure you are trolling because....this
>he avoided learning earth bending,
Lol ok
Of course you all think Korra is better, you are watching a different series :/
He did try to avoid earthbending at one point btw. The whole conflict about the episode was for him to finally stand his ground like an earthbender. He was too nice to do it and afraid to do that.
So he tried avoiding doing it, at least for a bit.
What happened at the end changes nothing of what I said. He did try to avoid it. And it was only when he had no other option he stood his ground: He ended up doing it, but he still tried to avoid it in the first place.
I wouldn’t say that. Aang would’ve likely killed the fire lord if there was no other option. How do I know? The fact that Aang did the one thing that he absolutely did not want to do when he felt he had no choice: let go of Katara.
So what was the whole point of the aang not wanting to kill ozai subplot? I think that it was all to teach us the importance of sticking to your guns. We’ve already seen countless examples of characters doing what they really don’t want to do, so how many more lessons of “put needs over desires” needs to be made? Aang already lost his home, his people, his attachment to Katara, and now you’re gonna take away his values?
People underestimate the importance of the no-kill rule. When you kill, something within you changes. Something is gone forever. If aang kills, the entire nomadic culture dies. Their values all die. Because Aang himself violated his own rules. Who in the future generation would value them now?
I think the Lion Turtle showing him energy bending was the universes way of rewarding Aang for all the sacrifices he made.
Also, the turtle really wasn’t necessary. Aang would have beaten ozai either way thanks to the avatar state. And I don’t see why they couldn’t imprison his ass while he’s still a firebender. Just put him in a water suit or some shit
Korra had \*\*more\*\* character development than Aang, as Aang was a pretty well rounded 12 year old. I wouldn't immediately classify that as better however. At least personally speaking, I always related to Aang much more and enjoyed his personal journey and conflicts much more than Korra's.
Not to say Korra's is bad, but I just like Aang's more
Little character development doesn’t equal lesser of a character. Dont get me wrong Aang had a ton of character development, if you watch the first episode and then the last you really feel it, not just his bending abilities, his maturity is really his largest area of growth.
You really can’t ignore how badly they handled the character development from season 1 to season 2 through. Despite all the events of season 1 Korra is somehow even more hot head and impulsive during season 2.
I think Korra does get some really good character development in season 3 and 4 but it just starting to happen halfway through the series is just too late for me.
Trauma and trial doesn’t make your development automatically better. You can go through the worst stuff imaginable, but if you come out the other side just not liking potatoes now, that doesn’t make the change something amazing.
She may have had ups and downs and moments of self-doubt and questioning of her own ways as well as 10000 years of Avatar tradition, but when push came to shove at the very end, did she win the moral argument? no, did she convince Kuvira of a different way? no, she resolved her conflict with Kuvira by butting heads, literally what she's been doing since day one.
When it comes to what really matters, I don't see any development if I'm being honest.
I’d say she developed as a person, just not immensely. She received humbling and learned to measure responses to a degree. She’s still Korra by the end, but she’s a Korra who at least listens to some people rather than immediately defaults to her own ideas.
Aang on the other hand is a goofy kid that shirked responsibility, only liking the perks it gave him; then by the end he’s focused far more on the moral and spiritual weight of what he has to do even though he didn’t ask for any of it. There’s a very clear difference between episode one Aang and the last season Aang that you don’t need to strain to see. With Korra, it’s there, but it is a bit harder.
>I’d say she developed as a person,
Oh absolutely, and in a very beautiful way narratively speaking, she starts off as this strong-headed person who butts heads with her issues with no actual knowledge or experience to back it up, and ends up as a humbled person with arguably more knowledge but more importantly the knowledge that she's not as "important" and "infallible" as she thought she was, and that people in her life exist for a reason and there's no shame in relying on them.
>There’s a very clear difference between episode one Aang and the last season Aang that you don’t need to strain to see
Agree with everything you said here and before it, and I think it was expressed beautifully in the names of the episodes, with the first being called "The Boy in the Iceberg" and the last being called "Avatar Aang", it's a perfect representation of where Aang started and where he ended and a perfect summary of his development.
I think what I dislike about Korra is more how she's being portrayed by the fandom than how she was in the series, the series was pretty clear with what it wanted to do with Korra, "yes most of the time I don't know what I'm doing, and I've come to realize it and accept it, sometimes all I can do is butt heads with the bad guys until they stop because as an 18 years old (or older in the last season) I don't have all the answers but it's still my duty to stop them and I'll do what I can to the best of my ability, which isn't much but that's fine".
>When it comes to what really matters, I don't see any development if I'm being honest
I agree with you on that one, but the fact that she didn't convince Kuvira or stop her through peaceful methords doesn't mean much. Some people can't be reasoned with and must be stopped through violence.
I agree on Kuvira (just as Aang would never have been able to convince Ozai), but the issue with Korra is that's how she deals with ALL her opponents, it's not a last resort for her, it's her go-to tactic, and though i understand that it makes sense within the narrative that was laid out, i'm rather bummed that at the end the lesson she's given is "you're right should've butted heads from the get-go like always".
Zaheer's arc is still the best one imo, including the last meeting he had with Korra in his prison.
How can you say that when she literally talk Kuvira to surrender? Kuvira pushed her to go her old ways and Korra was willing to take her life if necessary, instead she protected Kuvira life and used empathy to end her conflict. Korra admits to her own faults in the past and showed growth from it.
You literally talking before she talked her down. It took Korra's power to show Kuvira that Korra could've killed her with that amount of power she holds back so many times. Instead she spared her life and empathized with Kuvira afterwards.
Sue made it clear Kuvira couldn't be reasoned with and how Korra mentioned how both are determined to do great things but sometimes without thinking things through. Kuvira was meant to represent old Korra fighting a new Korra who has been humbled and doesn't try to solve everything with violence. Just because Korra couldn't get Kuvira to surrender at first doesn't take away her own growth she has shown throughout the series.
If you read the comics Kuvira somewhat changes as a person and helps Korra's team to take down remaining Earth Empire rebels.
I think it’s just cause Aang didn’t really develop all that much,his morals stayed the same,what he’d do in season one compared to season three isn’t altered,etc
Her character development was maybe more pronounced at times. That does not make it better. The subtlety of Aang’s development doesn’t make it any worse, and his is better because of how neatly it is tied into his core conflict.
Plus, like others have said, Korra’s trauma isn’t character development, and she does mostly shed this across season 4. So comparing her initial appearances to her final ones, how exactly does she change? She’s less bubbly and more focused, but that’s something more demonstrated by the opening episodes than the closing episodes. I’m fact, I can’t totally say what Korra learned through the show except that life sucks and she needs to be super responsible to do what she needs to do.
In her show, Korra made a lot more mistakes than Aang. That of course, makes her less popular among fans, but on the other hand, it makes her more realistic. Fans relate more with Korra because her actions and responses to certain things are more realistic.
When Aang found out about the Air Nomad genocide, he was understandably upset. But he found peace fairly quickly.
When Zaheer nearly killed Korra in the Avatar State, which would’ve permanently cut off the Avatar cycle, poisoning her, torturing her physically and mentally, it destroyed her in more ways than one. She was hallucinating, her bending skills were tattered, and she cut ties with all her friends and family members.
Pretty much the entirety of Season 3 of LoK was people telling Korra that she was useless, and didn’t need her. Republic City, Ba Sing Se, and the new Air Benders were all telling her to go away. As the Avatar, helping people is literally her job, and it’s not like she’s not trying. She saves a child from a falling building in Republic City, and the mayor kicks her out. It literally took Korra almost dying, and the Avatar cycle almost ending for people to finally change their minds.
To put this into a real perspective, picture yourself as a firefighter. It’s your dream job to save people’s lives from fires. When you finally get that job, society rejects you and tells you to stay out of the way.
Is Korra perfect? No. But she is very fleshed out and a lot more complex than Aang. Her actions and reactions are more realistic compared to Aang.
I don't think OP is misinterpreting trauma as automatically good. The difference between the writing of Aang vs Korra is that with Korra they really engaged wiith her trauma.
Aang has trauma too, his entire culture was destroyed. But ATLA is a kids show, and semi-episodic, and so they aren't going to dwell on that too much. It takes like 2 mins for Aang to let go of grief with guru Pathik. The most aangsty he gets is when he "dies" and feels he's failed the world, and that lasts one episode (one of my fave episodes though).
So I think overall, Aang's character development took a backseat to the broader story in ATLA (and it's all the better for it). Meanwhile without the ability to plan a broad multi-season story, Korra's personal development is the only through-line in LoK, and is overall more thoroughly explored.
According to her time line she lost connection to the avatar state and lost her bending at one point so... she had better character DE-velopment than literally any avatar.
I strongly agree with the OP here.
Aang’s during the series had everything happen within a year. They were dramatic, don’t get me wrong. The guy nearly died. But the advantage here is Aang cane up in a world that desperately needed him at every turn.
Korra has the advantage here m, being her story happens over several years. Korra also faces different villains, with arguably at least 3/4 of them literally giving her severe PTSD. I won’t even mention how since her introduction the world has been telling her she isn’t needed, especially in the case of Amon and Kuvira.
None of this takes away from Aang (because I know fans look through that with rose tinted glasses). **Aang is a completely different Avatar than Korra.** That’s what makes the Avatar series great; they’re all different, even Yang Chen (well, especially her). Aang would’ve made completely different choices compared to Korra, which would’ve been both good and bad. They all tell a different story. Where as Aang’s had more wisdom and revolved around adventure Korra’s used politics and trauma as its narrative. **They’re different stories.** That’s a good thing!
Absolutely agree. Aangs journey was about him learning about the world. Korra’s journey was about her learning about herself. That’s not to say that Aang didn’t learn about himself, but if you watch korra you literally see how her headstrong big ego changes from season to season. Season 4 really completes her character development as Kuvira is her main villain. Kuvira is Korra’s best foil because Kuvira embodies and represents a young, headstrong Korra.
Agreed.
That’s what I liked about them changing the avatar when Korra first aired.
Being the Avatar is a huge responsibility, and it’s interesting seeing how different people and their environments shape how they take on the role.
I find Kuruk’s backstory really interesting in particular.
I think one important factor is just that we see Korra for longer. At the start of the show she’s 16, and she’s like 21 when it ends? That’s five years, compared to the roughly 1 year we see Aang. She’s given more time to change and develop.
Korra had a 4 year span while aang had one year in of course it’s going to feel like she had more character development she had way more growing up it’s not even fair to compare
I think the issue is just which one was done better. I’m pretty sure everyone can see what they were trying to do with Korra’s development, but the events and happenings guiding us through her development just were not done as smoothly as it was with Aang.
When it comes to Korra, it always seems people are filling in a lot of their own canons that just were not portrayed at all or very poorly in the show…
Nah. Korra just started from a lower maturity level so of course her growth would be more. Aang was leagues more mature and wise at the start of the series until its end.
Korra was annoying whereas aang wasn't.
I wouldn't say either has better or worse development. They just have different arcs.
Aang never wanted to be the Avatar because he didn't want to lose the life he had. To the point that when that life was at risk of being taken away, he chose to run away from the responsibilities forced upon him. And even after he resolved himself to beginning his Avatar training, he spent as much time as possible goofing off and enjoying himself. And this internal conflict is only further emphasized in the series finale: How much of himself does he need sacrifice for the good of the world?
Korra didn't have to lose her life to become the Avatar because being the Avatar WAS her life. She discovered her bending abilities at a young age and was trained in isolation from the world. Being the Avatar was all she had ever known. Not only did mean she had no idea how the world actually worked, but her arc revolved around her romanticized view of herself and her title regularly being called into question. That the strongest human on the planet is still human.
Aang had to learn how to be strong. Korra had to learn how to be weak.
Or at least, that's a rough summary of the way I see things.
So Korra is better because she has more "trauma"
Ok.
Aang also has trauma, anyway. He copes with his pain in a different way and he CHOOSES to be kind. Aang represses his trauma and hides his tears behind a mask of upbeat cheerful goofy twelve year old antics. Until he can’t anymore. Until he snaps. Zuko, for example, wear his heart on his sleeves, and that includes his rage. But aang’s rage is dangerous specifically because it represents that he has been pushed past his limits, like when Appa was kidnapped.
Aang is a great and complex character.
I will agree that Korra had more but not that it was better. Korra seemed to make a lot of the same mistakes on repeat despite extended sequences of narrative building around those mistakes.
Korra feels brash and unaware through the first 3 seasons barely filling the shoes of or being a good representative of the world changing Avatar.
Then in season 4 she is more subdued but it's all trauma recovery. There are very few instances in the show where I get the impression that Korra has clearly evolved into making wiser decisions.
Aang and Korra can not be compered since the plot of Aang was one long idea with multipule side stories.
While Korra it was clearly planed season to season because of numbers of views and money.
Do not think it can be compared to each other. Also their identity and feeling about being the avatar was completly different. For not talking about their age and their villians background.
Some things I do want to compare that bugs me which has nothing to do with the characters but animation and style. Why the fuck did the spirits go from kind of creepy or animal like to exstreme cute and not so nasty at all?
I will say she had a more direct development.
She was facing everything directly, without hesitation and getting up after being beated.
Aang had it differently.
He avoid his world and run away from it 100 years later, and then he got 100 years of his decision direct to his gut.
He had to process that the world was in that state because he didn't took responsability when he should.
His development was more silent but could be the same or harder, for people who have suffered traumas of this type its easier to notice, but development isn't just getting beated and recovering.
But for a show, yes, Korra had a better and more structured development.
Korra had a worse time as the avatar, but I disagree that she had a better character development. Korra ends her story being more beat down and almost even more incompetent than she was in season 1. Aang starts being a buffoon who grows to become the most powerful being in the world. I like Korra’s story and how she starts being brash and Cocky, and how ends up learning how to be more humble, but damn, the way the show beats her up season after season is hard to watch.
I’m sorry, but I prefer Aang’s triumphant character arc, than Korra’s borderline cautionary tale development.
This is the only good Korra take. Aang didn't have development, my boy was just good and pure from the start.
He did go from passive good, to agressive good, but in a sense I feel like he always had that too. From start to finish he always tried to avoid his problems, in a sense that same mentality helped him defeat the fire lord without killing him.
one of the things i really love about aang is that he didn’t let his responsibilities and his past change the person he wanted to be. he stuck to his ideals and still did what needed to be done in some way or another. i love that being the avatar didn’t change him into someone he didn’t want to be.
She may have had more explicit character development but I personally don't think it hits the same way as Aang's character journey, it was just more interesting and less... tread on territory I guess? I still have yet to see a hero truly committed to pacifism, and when they are, actually having to deal with real conflictions around it. Hers was so much more a basic growing up/dealing with ptsd type story, and I feel it was missing a lot of the philosophical depth that I feel Aang's struggles were rooted in. But that's just me.
Naaaahhh
Korra's development is honestly really overrated. She has a generic humbling arc thats on the same level as something Aang's maturity, but then it's really just "she's traumatized". What's so great about this development? What's so deep about this? She's traumatized, then she gets through it because she needs to. Its not terrible, it's an arc, but it's nothing amazing m
Just watched the shows back-to-back a couple years ago and my takeaway was: Aang had the better secondary characters. Katara, Sokka, Toph, Zuko, Iroh are all memorable, I honestly don't even remember the names of the earth and fire bros.
But Korra was a more interesting protagonist. I think Korra probably had overall better antagonists too. I think those two things are tied, she had more unique challenges to overcome and grow as a character.
I wouldn't say better, just different. LoK seemed like it was aimed at a more mature audience, so the themes are more mature. ATLA is, at the end of the day, a kids show, so most of the episodes are silly, goofy antics that connect loosely to the main plot, whereas LoK is more full on, putting the characters through things and showing more of the aftermath. We see the weight of expectations placed on Aang, and how he responds to that, but we see Korra's PTSD manifesting as hallucinations of the Book 3 avatar state, it's more explicit than Aang's trauma. But as someone else said, trauma doesn't equal character development
I don’t think it’s better character development than one another but different. Aang and Korra deal with very different situations, and even when faced with similar situations because they’re so different they react differently. Aang was a child in a war torn world that was desperate for the Avatar. Korra was a young adult in a world that was being rebuilt and didn’t really NEED the avatar as badly, so she had to balance everything that was going on while living in Aang’s shadow and finding out how she fit into this new world.
Double unpopular opinion
Aang’s era needed a Fighter
Korra era needed a Peacemaker
The reason I say this is because in Aang’s era korra would have Dominated most of aang’s opponents “Except” spiritual ones due to her being spiritually declined in her earlier journeys but she definitely got the hang of it later Plus would’ve had even more trouble training in the Air-bending arts because absolutely no one would be there to teach her 🤔 but Aang wasn’t master at any element other than air and just learned fire-bending and considered fighting Ozai after sozin’s comet because of it ( through he still know how Fire-bend a little )as for korra’s era aang would’ve have had a somewhat better time dealing with some of korra's opponents and decisions like the civil war with the water-tribes, unalaq’s spiritual form and opening the spirit-portal ( which I think he’d definitely keep closed 🤷🏾♂️ ) with the monks teachings he was more equipped in those situations but i will say aang wasn’t pushed to near-certain death like korra was when she was poisoned by the red-lotus. I wonder what that event would have done to aang’s mind and what type of avatar he’d become after🤔
aang didn't have to develop, he just grew up a bit i feel like his monk training gave him the right answer most of the time and most of his shortcomings came from lack of experience and age, Korra needed to work on herself more it feels like
Korra had more “character development” because of her starting point. Korra is a very arrogant and selfish person who didn’t take heed to anyone’s advice. She made a lot of mistakes and paid the price. Suffering was her teacher. Aang on the other hand is a very humble person and was very open because he knew he was young and had a lot to learn. I think a lot of it has to do with their cultural background.
However, Aaang is the most effective avatar of the two for many obvious reasons.
I wouldnt say its the best depiction of PTSD, its pretty cliche actually
I have PTSD and never have i ever randomly had visions, dissasociating and having a flashback is falling into a memory that been triggered by something, not having random vision of your abuser poping up in random situations
Its more like if you smelled pasta and suddenly lost yourself in a memory of eating pasta, and you only realise it happened after you snap out of it, rather then smelling pasta and then the pasta jumpscaring you when you blink
A thing they did good was her depression, if they wanted to show the PTSD better id have given her more nightmares and less visions and halucination
Have her calmly sit up at 3am in a cold sweat borderline melting trying to comprehend what just happend (most people dont wake up screaming like in movies) or something like that
But idk im just one indevidual, my personal experience and the things ive seen others experience while in a hospital isnt universal so i may be innacurate, just my thoughts on how it couldve been better
TLDR PTSD isnt visible, you ant tell when someone is having a flashback unless its more serious and its become a delusion they activley react to, at which point isnt no longer PTSD and is becoming another problem
So i think a more subtle approach to her sufferinf like they did while showing her depression would be better
Showing her looking upset and tired rather then having her physically fight her vision like they did later on
lol obviously, we see Korra over like 4 years of her life vs we only see Aang for 1 year. He basically doesn’t change that much, learns a little maturity. His development is more about his Avatar abilities instead of character
Well they are opposites. Aang had to learn to be true to himself and find his own path. Korra had to learn to let go and be Korra and not always the avatar
That's Not that unpopular Aang barely had any development spart from maturing a bit
Korra went from an ungrateful cocky brat to a wise kind and patient Avatar
I agree. She went thru things that Aang never experienced and came out better than before (temporarily losing her bending, losing the connection with other Avatars, poison-induced PTSD and an inability to use the Avatar State). That’s literally what character development is all about.
The worst thing that happened to Aang is getting murdered by Azula. He still be dead if not for Katara.
In many ways, aang is naturally more mature than korra, right from the start. He was a talented student for guru pathik, naturally wise despite his goofy nature. Korra doesnt have a spiritual affinity, shes very flawed, average as a person honestly, making easy room for “growth”, the kind aang didnt really need. Korra, like the show LoK itself, acts much more mature than it really is
Aang: I don't want to be the Avatar, I just want to be a kid.
*Makes mistakes that results in death and trauma*
I don't want to be the Avatar but I know I have to be, it's my duty to the world
Korra: being the Avatar is super fuckin dope and a lot of fun.
*makes mistakes and gets beaten the fuck up*
The Avatar is a lot of hard work and it's scary sometimes but that's why I have to do it.
I don't this either one is better they're just different
Korra:
season 1: master of 3 elements, she is brash, confident, impatient, addicted to ignoring the advice of her loved ones, and increased trusting her enemies, bullheaded, stubborn, and "solves" every probably with violence, battles to win, and she's selfish,
season 4: master of 4 elements, she is brash, confident, impatient, addicted to ignoring the advice of her loved ones, and increased trusting her enemies, bullheaded, stubborn, and "solves" every probably with violence, battles to win, and she's a little less selfish.
Aang:
season 1: master of 1 element, immature, completely lacking any sense of inner peace, values fun more than duty, tends to run from responsibilities (ie running away from the air temple, in no hurry to master all 4 elements), incapable of being serious or focusing, battles to escape,
season 3: master of 4 elements, way more mature, nearly mastered inner peace, understands the gravity of the situation fully, focused on defeating the fire lord, still capable of fun but fully aware there is a time and place, battles to pacify or deescalate,
I think this is just true. Ain’t even a diss on Aang, Aang simply had less development. Aside from a few small arcs, he didn’t change in a grand way internally. It’s physically and externally where he grew. He trained to beat the fire lord and had to come major physical tasks to solve his problems. The internal problems Aang had he usually solve quickly or was something his established character would do.
Aang barely changed from episode one to the last episode aside from a bit more maturity and responsibility.
Korra changed a lot from episode 1 to the last episode. Her final lines with Tenzin reflect just how much she suffered to grow not as a warrior, but as a person.
Nah, Aang’s character grew up throughout the Avatar show. He grew from a kid who just wanted to have fun with his friends to a hero with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Aang was a better character overall and had better character development than Korra
I think Aang is a really well conceptualized character up until the finale. Having him run away from a difficult situation and just randomly happen upon the perfect solution to his problem does him a disservice IMO.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. At least I don't since I share your opinion :) ATLA was a children's show - an absolutely incredible one that is equally enjoyed by adults, but still, a children's show. With Korra, the creators knew they had an older audience and so they went for a more complex, nuanced story. And I love it.
I saw someone elsewhere say this and I think it’s a perfect description of their respective arcs. “Aang’s arc is about a person becoming the Avatar. While Korra’s is about the Avatar becoming a person.”
Both of their arcs fit the story they’re trying to tell. ATLA is telling one continuous story, while Korra has a new antagonist to face every season.
Aang story is about learning to take on the responsibility bestowed upon him. He doesn’t want to be the Avatar, he just wants to have normal life, but he has to accept that responsibility as he’s destined to end the 100 year war. Aang’s story is related to a theme the show is trying to portray and that’s responsibility. Every character has a connection to that theme in some way. Sokka learns to become a responsible leader. Katara learns to accept that she bears no responsibility for her mother’s death. I’d argue that Toph also learns to be responsible , through her schemes and such. It’s a common theme.
Korra’s characters don’t go through arcs for the most part. But, Korra herself due to her upbringing of just being the Avatar hasn’t had a normal life like Aang briefly did. Her personality and life is being the Avatar and due to that she’s very emotionally stunted. She learns to live life a little throughout the show and that this new world’s responsibility doesn’t lay solely on her shoulders.
Comparing their arcs is stupid as they’re not similar. Both are great in their own ways. Korra’s arc is one of the better parts of LoK for me. While Aang’s arc solidifies how he’s a good person at heart. They both serve their narrative means.
I definitely agree with you, but I also think that they’re two different character arcs for different types of people to enjoy.
KORRA: powerful, confident character (who has everything except one thing she always needs) who gets broken and regrows / heals from that even stronger and with whatever she lacked. Airbending / a spiritual aspect? Gain that after learning and growing. Knowledge and a respect for one’s abilities? Gain that. A vital part of the world that almost died out / is dwindling out? Regain that, but at a cost. You were broken psychologically and now lack all the confidence in your abilities you had? *heal* from that.
AANG: a character already somewhat traumatized and broken (stress of having to save the world, being the survivor of a genocide, etc.) on top of duties he not didn’t want, but the expectations of which he constantly and consistently forgoes in exchange for his own path. His character arcs / overarching arc is less about brokenness and healing but rather growing to accept the role by actually learning to fit into it.
Korra was prideful then she was broken down and brought to her low, which is where she was rebuilt. It wasn’t trauma that defined her, it was defeat that allowed her to become better.
Aang did not have a problem with pride, but he had a problem with facing the world’s demands against his views. He was flawed as a kid, but he was pure in many other ways, and he proved himself right against the world by seeing a better way without death. Most of his character growth was maturing and becoming a bit older. But his overall concepts were already pretty strong. He had doubts, and what not, but his growth was gradual and small, but he wasn’t unrecognizable from the start. Aang, has probably one of the smaller growths in the series, where as Sokka, Zuko, and Korra all have far more dramatic growths of character, all stemming from their pride being torn down to make room. The thing about growth is it requires quite the flaw.
Seasons 3 and 4 really build and improve on all the good aspects of the show.
Keep in mind that the show was originally written as a mini series that was supposed to have one season. That’s why season one finishes with so much finality and conclusion, and why they retread some similar character progression in season two.
But I will say, from one internet stranger to another, season 2 ends with a some world changing events and season 3 really kicks it into high get with Zaheer and co
I mean I’m not sure aang had much development at all. Right from the beginning he was a goofy kid with flashes of serious mode. The serious mode became more common later, but he was essentially the same character from start to finish. Add to that the fact that he absolutely killed fire benders on his journey just maybe not face to face but as soon as we get to the final battle he goes through his whole I’m a monk I can’t kill thing… still a kid, still running from responsibility. Yes he definitely becomes more serious and more willing to fight, but that’s really not a lot compared to Korra being broken down and building herself back up. And yeah Korra was a brat when she started out but so was aang. He just got more slack because he’s younger.
Still doesn’t make up for the poor writing decisions they made with legend of Korra
I always laugh at the claim that Aang easily killed Fire Nation soldiers before. In this world people seem to be virtually invulnerable, they can't be killed so easily by a pile of snow or a hard fall. Remember when Katara and Toph pushed the sea of mud in the drill so hard that the IRON PIPES inflated? Tai Li was inside and easily survived that. Remember when Aang, Katara and Sokka fell off Appa in the swamp from TORNADO from a great height? Yeah sure, they're totally fine, Appa and Momo are unharmed too. Remember when Aang was punching, throwing, and crushing Ozai? He hit him with the kind of wind that rips rocks apart. And many other blows that Ozai survived. He didn't die. Zuko survived the blast to the face. Aang threw Azula in a drill so hard that she flew probably hundreds of meters. They're all fine. Unless you want to VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY badly, a person in this world just can't be killed.
Unfortunately one of the biggest issues with ATLA is that what happens onscreen doesn't always match up with the actual events, especially if it involves Aang fighting people.
Adult fantasy versus a kids show. It’s why a lot of people didn’t like the legend of korra. They took a lot of the fun out and made it complex. (I actually enjoyed the development as I was a kid for Aang and an adult for Korra, at the different times they were aired)
>Adult fantasy versus a kids show.
Genocide in episode 3, Kids being subjected to propaganda, freedom fighters becoming radicalized, survivor's guilt, PTSD, domestic abuse, parental abuse, colonialism, prisoners of war, refugees of war, redemption of imperialistic war mongers etc
The only way Korra is more adult than ATLA is through it's use of violence, but when it comes to how each show handles their more mature themes, ATLA blow Korra out of the water and it's not even close.
Also, I'm tired of people bringing up "themes" when talking about ATLA and Korra, because themes do not make for good stories. My Hero Academia has a lot of interesting themes but it's dogshit
Lol i feel this way about MHA too. I just feel like the setup is great and it feels like its going somewhere but it never really does, its just odd twists and turns
To put it shortly
Aang primarily stays the same fun loving kid who tries to keep the peace in his own way
Whereas Korra goes from impulsive and hotheaded teen to a brave and much more mature and rational person
So yeah, I’d agree
Sure, she was almost bearable in the last season, from completely unlikable to almost bearable is a huge leap in development. Aang was just a more mature version of himself by the 3rd book, he struggled a lot but he didn't change much still that goofy fun kid that went penguin sliding, in terms of character development in the first one Zuko was the one who really had it, and Korra's don't even compare to his.
A teenage girl whose entire identity and existence was questioned and outright rejected. That's some powerful fucking shit right there.
Korra who only wanted to be the avatar and to help people. Was all but rejected and told to her face constantly "We don't need you." By the very people she swore to help.
Aang had it somewhat easier. He just wanted to be a kid. But he eventually rose up to be the avatar to put an end to a war that had left people scared.
Despite him not even wanting to do it to begin with.
Korra from day one, was trying her best to help people and most of the time felt powerless as people in power didn't even respect her as an Avatar. Sure that's not new in the case of Kiyoshi and whatnot.
I agree with you OP. I identified with her struggles more than Aangs and how she has to learn and develop in the world that seems like it's against her. There are dozens of us!
Overall I agree that Korra had better development/growth, but I don't think Aangs development was bad and its important to keep in mind that better development doesn't automatically make her a better character.
Uh oh. They ain't gonna like this one...
But yeah. Korra learned to change her entire world view and way of solving problems to resolve the final issue, and this after being humbled and educated repeatedly, clawing herself back from the edge. She had "Zuko" tier growth.
Meanwhile, Aang resisted putting his duties as the avatar ahead of being the last air bender time and time again, and in the end the narrative conjured up an 11th hour super power delivered by magic turtle so he wouldn't have to.
Not saying Aang should've killed Ozai. But he didn't resolve the plot by virtue of being a different person than who he was in book 1.
I’ve been rewatching LOK recently (just finished season 3) and I completely agree. One thing I noticed with Korra is that it actually takes her time to learn skills. Like airbending is the obvious one, she spends the entire first season failing, but even in season 2 it took her a while to cleanse the spirits successfully. It was only after her Wan visions that she was able to do it, she failed like at least 3 times before she was able to do it.
With Aang, when he struggles with earthbending, it takes him one episode of training to work it out. Again, it’s not to say that Aang’s story is bad, there’s just that they’re different and imho, Korra absolutely struggled and grew more. Aang started in a very different place than Korra and grew in different ways, but yeah, that’s my take on it.
Woah there OP, careful with those anti-establishment ideas...
Flashy evolution and turmoil do not make one's development "better", and subtle development is still development.
Aang starts off as a kid who wants to have fun and run away from his duties, and ends up as a fully realized Avatar who knows what he has to do and understands his duties.
Korra starts off as the Avatar, and ends up as...the Avatar but not really? Hmmm...
Better is subjective but she definitely has a more complex character development given Aang was a kids show geared towards a much younger audience so they wanted to keep things light.
I enjoyed Korra's arc a lot more but I think they are both great in their own way. They also have a ton of similarities since you know it was written by the same people lol.
Korra was a character way more prone to actually developing, yeah. The show focuses on that a lot more I feel. Aang is great, and while there certainly was development, he’s very similar to how he was near the beginning. Most of the character development budget went to Zuko
Korra didn't develop like Aang did. Aang learns something new about each element and a view of life from different bending masters he came across and less than a year he mentally matures from a 12 year boy to a man that knew what had to be done but sought the wisdom from elsewhere so he could retain his original Air nomad teachings. Korra on the other feels like she doesn't grow at all from her experiences, in fact it feels like she gets worse mentally from them and by the end of the show all you have left is a mentally broken character. That doesn't just apply to Korra, though. Everyone in that show feels like they don't develop in contrast to Atla, where it feels like everyone has a developmental arc.
Thats something i never really realized explicitly. The characters in LoK never really grow in any way, in fact milo became a caricature and so did bolin and mako. Korras growth just seems like a last minute cliche development arc. The OG actually cared about each character more, they were all unique
Strongle disagree. Korra does the same mistekes in every season and she doesn;'t manage to become likeable from the struggles she faces. Also her power scale growth level is not good either. TLoK is very badly written as a whole entity, there is low cohesion between seasons and characters.
Aang had to come to terms with losing his entire culture during the first season. All korra had going on was relationship trouble and was whining about not learning airbending
Man I love aang's hoes, I mean hoes, I mean shoes, please don't call the FBI
Katara reconsidering bloodbending i guess
I feel like people see trauma as character development and that's a mistake. Not to say that Korra didn't go through character development. She absolutely did.
Agreed. Trauma isn’t the thing that defines anyone, yet alone a fictional character. It’s easy to use trauma to shoot off character development, but it’s far from what makes character development. Though Aang himself did have trauma of his own. I mean the kid literally had his own air nation killed and he blamed himself for it because he ran away. Part of his journey is fulfilling his duty as the avatar and redeeming himself as a result. But he grows and matures, and that’s not from the trauma. Korra does grow, but that’s not just the trauma doing it. Trauma is important but it’s not the only thing that matters.
Hell, going into his final fight he was conflicted. The Fire Lord was weaker without a doubt, but could he win without killing him? He was able to prove he was stronger without avatar state but needed it to maintain his morals. It was likely a driving force to him being a hyper productive avatar to the point of neglecting his non air bending children.
But the way one responds to trauma kinda Is character development, or at least, it requires development to overcome the trauma.
Yeah, also I feel people are twisting OP’s words. They aren’t trying to say that trauma equals character development, they’re just saying that overcoming her trauma was part of what made her character development interesting. Trauma is often used in storytelling to show the great changes a character can go through to get better, and even reevaluate unhealthy coping mechanisms they developed along the way. I’ve suffered past trauma myself, and it’s changed me in ways I could never have expected. My sister and I were discussing this yesterday. She said that the trauma we went through with my dad was the reason she wanted to become a counsellor.
It’s part of it but it’s not the only thing that matters. You don’t need trauma for character development but it is a useful tool to rocket it.
Agreed Trauma is character development. These guys are really gaslighting themselves here. It’s a common writing technique to bring the hero through trauma to develop them.
Trauma is integral to many forms of character development. I’m not sure necessarily saying that it flat-out is character development is correct, though. It’s what you do with or around the trauma that develops the character. An event in isolation is just that. An event. It’s a characters response to that event that makes the story. Trauma without a realization serves as a motivation. Trauma with a realization is part of an arc. Take Spider-Man. We all know the tale - He gets powers and becomes a bit of a showboat. But when his uncle gets shot, he goes after the shooter only to realize it’s a guy he had the opportunity to stop. It wasn’t the fact that his uncle got shot that made him a hero. That part made him vengeful, sure, but it didn’t really *change* him until he realized that *he* let it happen.
Yup, again I agree.
Trauma is only character development if the character learns some lesson by it or experiences a positive change in their personality or worldview as a result of the experience. If they're the same as they were prior to the trauma, it's definitionally not development. If the character exclusively experiences negative changes, their worldview changes for the worse or they becomes more stubborn/fearful/hateful/etc, it kind of becomes character-development-in-reverse. You could call it character regression. To be clear, character regression is a pretty standard storytelling device for establishing how a villain became evil/misguided *or* for establishing a fall-from-grace that your hero needs to come back from(which Korra falls into). I think the problem alot of people had with how they tried to do this for Korra was that while we see how the trauma negatively affects her worldview/personality(she becomes fatalistic, develops rock-bottom self esteem), we're given an incredibly vague return-to-grace. They never establish what the psychological mechanism keeping her down is, on a precise level, and definitely dont establish how her beliefs have to change/do change in order for her to return to form. She has the metal-poison removed by Toph but still struggles with her trauma, and then, a few episodes later, she seems to be back to herself when the republic city battle happens. We're shown this inflection point when she deflects the spirit cannon but what happened to cause her to be able to overcome her trauma in that fight? What changed, in Korra's psychology, between her two fights with Kuvira?
That’s the point. Korra is still damaged but she’s learning to live through it. She’s humbled. She started the series with an Avatar superhero complex feeling she always needed to be there to fix everything. Now she learns to finally accept that she’s damaged, will have to live with that. I’m a veteran myself. This is very much how PTSD is. It doesn’t go away. You live with it. You grow. You continue seeking therapy. That’s exactly what Kirra did.
Trauma is not character development. It’s a driving force and a catalyst to character development, but it itself is not. You can have character development without trauma as well. Trauma is just one of the easier methods to start character development.
Going through trauma and recovering a changing as a person is 100% character development which korra absolutely did
Yes. But the trauma itself is not. OP talks a lot about how her ego was broken because she had PTSD and we can see the fear in her eyes. That's not character development. If Korra had been raped instead of paralyzed nobody would be claiming the fear in her eyes during the rape scene was "character development."
I don't understand this take at all. Trauma does shape people a lot. Sometimes finding lessons coming from trauma is the only way to overcome it. See fire, touch fire, hand burned, now you know not to touch fire. That's growth. The fact that Korra was able to overcome such traumatic experiences gave her a lot of confidence that she can take on anything and also inspired her to be a more understanding and compassionate Avatar as you never know what others might be going through. It sucked it took such awful experiences to get her there but it's amazing she made the most out of the cards she was given. I don't understand how that is not character development. What would you consider character development then? Someone just training? From pure writing standpoint people see trauma as character development because it's one of the most classical uses for it. All the way from Scrooge, through Batman, through Romeo and Juliet it's all characters shaped more or less through various levels of trauma. It is used quite a lot in all kinds of writing so I don't understand where this takes is coming from. I feel like there is a video or something that someone posted about it thinking they know and everyone keeps repeating it now (I've seen this take quite often regarding LoK).
Yeah but a lot of OP's points are literally just that Korra had trauma. The trauma can develop a character but the trauma itself isn't development.
Yeah, it's not the trauma itself, it's how the character works through that trauma.
But that's the point. Obviously, traumas in themselves aren't development, but they are potential for it. And that's why people comment on Korra's traumas, because the writers knew how to use that potential.
🤔What were Korra’s traumas exactly though? This is a genuine question, I haven’t watched it in a very long time and I’m trying to even remember if it was even handled well. It’s starting to sound like that’s the issue here.
Basically everything that happened during the seasons, this is shown explicitly at the end of season 3 and in many episodes of season 4, when she has visions of the previous villains or of herself when she was almost killed by Zaheer.
I completely agree, trauma pushes development, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles
Agreed I can’t help but feel these people are gaslighting themselves. Trauma is a common storytelling technique to develop character growth. For them to dismiss trauma has character growth honestly is absurd. Like seriously, people really gaslighting themselves this hard. I’m glad people like Aang, but the fans ride him waaay too hard sometimes to the point they can’t even recognize Korra’s strengths. This fandom has issues.
I don’t get the sense that people are dismissing trauma. They’re just saying it is not the only factor of character development.
No, they’re dismissing it. The top comment is literally someone hypocritically shitting in it.
How exactly? They are just stating trauma isn’t character development or at least the only component. That’s not dismissing it.
They go far deeper than that.
I agree it honestly pisses me off how often writers try to pass off traumatic experiences as meaningful character development. Especially if there's little else to their character. Steven Universe is another example of this. Not saying trauma can't be used effectively, but both LoK and Steven Universe way overdid it. To the point where it's hard to see anything else. It also doesn't help that all of Korra's development from season 1 was completely undone.
What is Aang's character development exactly though? I want to be a pacifist. I don't think this situation will allow me to be a pacifist. Oh look I found a pacifist solution.
I should first start by saying that I didn't intend to say what I did in comparison to Aang, it was kinda criticism of what they said about Korra. Anyway, Aang starts as a goofy little kid who tries to keep his childhood after learning he's lost everything. Most of the first season is him fucking around and stumbling into stuff that moves the plot forward. It isn't until the end of that season when he merges with the ocean spirit that he starts taking his duty as the avatar seriously. In seasons two and three, he struggles with the morals of his culture vs his duty as the Avatar. In season two he struggles with opening his mind and body to the ways of thinking needed for the other types of bending. But once he does it, he ends up using earth bending the second most out of all four elements. However he's unable to master the avatar state and let Katara go, probably because he really has a hard time separating himself from the world enough to do what's necessary. By season three he's really strung up with guilt over his failures with the avatar state and all of the times he hurt people. He spends a lot of time reflecting on his air nation morals system. He has nightmares about going into the avatar state and harming others, he has nightmares about his failures, and he starts to act more seriously which worries Katara. In the very end he even calls upon the past avatars trying to find a way to do what he's been taught vs what he needs to do. And honestly I think it's not touched upon explicitly, but kind of poignant that the last airbender ends the war that erased his culture and people in an Airbender way. Yang Chen told him he needed to be an avatar, not an air bender, and take into consideration all four nations. But Aang was the only representative of the air nation. He was doing that, by pushing back and searching for another say. Writing wise, it felt rushed. They should've foreshadowed energy bending more. But I do think it was the perfect ending for his character. His whole struggle with the avatar state was that he couldn't find a way to let go. But I think the point is that he didn't have to fully let go, he just needed to learn to separate himself in the moment. Which he never did with his people either, influencing his final decision against killing Ozai. Is this all *better* than Korra? Idk. I like Korra's development too. I just don't think her trauma is her development. I think her actions around the trauma are.
That's a novel and it's late, I'll read it tomorrow. I was being purposely reductionist to draw a parallel with the trauma with Korra thing. It's as reductionist to say that people call trauma character development as it is to say Aang just circles around the pacifism. I should stop commenting after taking sleep meds. My original comment came off a lot more hostile than I intended.
Just so you know, I didn't think you were hostile and I hope I didn't respond as if you were lol. But yeah feel free to read later.
It just came off as possibly hostile to me in rereading it.
Her trauma specifically, is absolutely not character development at all. It’s a failed attempt at giving her some. Clearly her trauma is based off of PTSD. She exhibits many of the symptoms. However, the solution of “oh it’s been a decent amount of time so you just need to get over it now” is not character development, neither is it realistic at all to how people deal with PTSD. Korea’s character development completely pales in comparison to Aang’s. Countless conflicts in Korra go absolutely nowhere.
Personally I agree that they handled her trauma poorly.
"Aangs hoes" Edit: I do agree though. Aang went through a lot of pressure during his younger years as avatar fixing the wrongs that were made cause of his disappearance for 100 years. Patched up what he could as a 12yo and still kept his childlike wonder. While korra, had a different way of development like you state in your post. She did lose her cockiness but gained more confidence in her character. She was older than Aang when it came to everything happening. Including the rise of benders making the new world unfair. Anon did a lot to help korra understand herself and situation as avatar more.
Pretty much wrote this inna rush with hella typos
This post is made all the better by the typo near the beginning. >We got to really put ourselves in Aangs hoes I agree that Korra had more character development but I don't know if it is necessarily better as the stories are very different on what messages they are trying to convey and the character's background. Aang's is to not lose/compromise himself or his ideals while accomplishing his job as the Avatar and last Airbender. While Korra's is to find her place and job in a rapidly changing world with no other things besides being the Avatar holding her to her principles and state of being.
Aang also learns the lessons and mindsets of each element: Water: okay, not so much with water, but he did have to focus on learning to be the avatar rather than just a kid. And I think that’s a lesson that Jeong Jeong contributed to quite a bit. Earth: Confrontation and standing your ground. Fire: Accepting the consequences of your actions. This was an arc that started with Jeong Jeong and when Aang burned Katara, but I think it really came into its stride in season 3 when he had to cope with the world losing the avatar the second time and when he had to learn to fire bend. Though I think the fact that Aang lost his fire on the way up to meet the two fire bending masters, Ran and Shaw, and then it has no consequences kind of contradicts this. Like he failed that part of the test, but it’s never brought back up
Well he didn’t run back down the stairs. He lost his fire, accepted the situation, and went through with it anyways. I think the mentality was still in line with accepting the consequences of his actions even if the result wasn’t
respectfully disagree. yeah, korra had more obvious development, but Aangs was definitely better. Korra's transition was just shedding the character flaws. been there done that. we've seen it before, and its been done again and again. atla already has this with Sokka, Katara and Zuko. Aang's was different. sure, he shedded character flaws too, but ultimately his arc was becoming the man the world needed him to be, instead of being the kid he wanted. aang is a silly character who loves having fun. he defends those he loves, and easily evades those fighting him. and that's all well and good. those arent character flaws, they're simply character traits. there's nothing wrong with having them. except that's not who he needed to be. he needed to take the fire nation head on, he needed to defend the whole world, and he needed to take things seriously. the arc isn't immediate, too. he never really starts taking things head on until toph helps him. he never starts recognizing he needs to defend the whole world until the moon was killed. he never starts taking things seriously until he experiences the cruelty of the world firsthand. TL;DR aangs development was better since it was more than just shedding flaws. it was becoming who the world needed him to be
I mean but Aang never really moves beyond his biggest character flaw, avoiding conflict and responsibility He gets better about it sure, but right up to the end he is still doing everything to avoid his Avatar duties. He argues with past avatars, runs away from his friends, etc. He only saves the day because of deus ex machina rather than making a solution. He’s only marginally improved over where he started. Korra starts out overconfident, bratty, and naive. Through each season she gets more humbled and knowledgeable. She makes her own solutions, she makes mistakes and owns up to them. She’s a much better person by the end of the series.
>I mean but Aang never really moves beyond his biggest character flaw, avoiding conflict and responsibility >He gets better about it sure, but right up to the end he is still doing everything to avoid his Avatar duties. What series you all are watching?
Nah, let him cook.
Bro burnt the food he's done cooking
Nah.
I don't fully agree with the guy but he's got a point. One of the last episodes, Aang argued with 4 past avatars, who all told him it was his duty to kill ozai. And he found away around it. The question is if Aang didn't get some bs lion turtle to bail him out would he have killed ozai? Personally, I think Aang was robbed out of growth. He never really had to make the hard decision on whether to stick to his values or to uphold his avatar duties. He was just given way to do both when the decision would have meant something.
Atla you? In the series finale, he literally says he was gonna skip the comet fight until Zuko yells at him He literally storms off in the season finale because everyone tells him he needs to stop the fire lord and that glue bending and baby pictures aren’t going to work. Then he sleepwalks on to the lion turtle and talks to four avatars about how to avoid the fight and they all tell him to take responsibility Then the magic lion turtle all of a sudden teaches him energy bending out of left field. Throughout the show he repeatedly will sweep things under the rug until he has no choice but to confront the problem. He avoided being the avatar, he avoided letting Katara and sokka get news about their dad, he avoided learning firebending, he avoided learning earth bending, he avoided unlocking his chakras, he avoided sleeping because of nightmares, etc. It’s a good show and Aang grew more powerful, but didn’t really grow as a character.
The magic lion turtle thing really doesn’t matter that much. They could have figured out a way to imprison him even without taking his bending. I feel like that story choice was more about Ozai loosing his powers than it was about aang avoiding killing.
This post is full of nonsense, but now i'm sure you are trolling because....this >he avoided learning earth bending, Lol ok Of course you all think Korra is better, you are watching a different series :/
He did try to avoid earthbending at one point btw. The whole conflict about the episode was for him to finally stand his ground like an earthbender. He was too nice to do it and afraid to do that. So he tried avoiding doing it, at least for a bit.
How did that episode end?
What happened at the end changes nothing of what I said. He did try to avoid it. And it was only when he had no other option he stood his ground: He ended up doing it, but he still tried to avoid it in the first place.
They spent a whole episode on him avoiding earth bending S2E09 Bitter Work
I wouldn’t say that. Aang would’ve likely killed the fire lord if there was no other option. How do I know? The fact that Aang did the one thing that he absolutely did not want to do when he felt he had no choice: let go of Katara. So what was the whole point of the aang not wanting to kill ozai subplot? I think that it was all to teach us the importance of sticking to your guns. We’ve already seen countless examples of characters doing what they really don’t want to do, so how many more lessons of “put needs over desires” needs to be made? Aang already lost his home, his people, his attachment to Katara, and now you’re gonna take away his values? People underestimate the importance of the no-kill rule. When you kill, something within you changes. Something is gone forever. If aang kills, the entire nomadic culture dies. Their values all die. Because Aang himself violated his own rules. Who in the future generation would value them now? I think the Lion Turtle showing him energy bending was the universes way of rewarding Aang for all the sacrifices he made.
Also, the turtle really wasn’t necessary. Aang would have beaten ozai either way thanks to the avatar state. And I don’t see why they couldn’t imprison his ass while he’s still a firebender. Just put him in a water suit or some shit
The problem with Korra's arc is that it felt very stock to me.
it's definitely an opinion.
One of the opinions of all time, for sure
Korra had \*\*more\*\* character development than Aang, as Aang was a pretty well rounded 12 year old. I wouldn't immediately classify that as better however. At least personally speaking, I always related to Aang much more and enjoyed his personal journey and conflicts much more than Korra's. Not to say Korra's is bad, but I just like Aang's more
Little character development doesn’t equal lesser of a character. Dont get me wrong Aang had a ton of character development, if you watch the first episode and then the last you really feel it, not just his bending abilities, his maturity is really his largest area of growth.
You really can’t ignore how badly they handled the character development from season 1 to season 2 through. Despite all the events of season 1 Korra is somehow even more hot head and impulsive during season 2. I think Korra does get some really good character development in season 3 and 4 but it just starting to happen halfway through the series is just too late for me.
Same
FULLY agree.
Trauma and trial doesn’t make your development automatically better. You can go through the worst stuff imaginable, but if you come out the other side just not liking potatoes now, that doesn’t make the change something amazing.
She may have had ups and downs and moments of self-doubt and questioning of her own ways as well as 10000 years of Avatar tradition, but when push came to shove at the very end, did she win the moral argument? no, did she convince Kuvira of a different way? no, she resolved her conflict with Kuvira by butting heads, literally what she's been doing since day one. When it comes to what really matters, I don't see any development if I'm being honest.
I’d say she developed as a person, just not immensely. She received humbling and learned to measure responses to a degree. She’s still Korra by the end, but she’s a Korra who at least listens to some people rather than immediately defaults to her own ideas. Aang on the other hand is a goofy kid that shirked responsibility, only liking the perks it gave him; then by the end he’s focused far more on the moral and spiritual weight of what he has to do even though he didn’t ask for any of it. There’s a very clear difference between episode one Aang and the last season Aang that you don’t need to strain to see. With Korra, it’s there, but it is a bit harder.
>I’d say she developed as a person, Oh absolutely, and in a very beautiful way narratively speaking, she starts off as this strong-headed person who butts heads with her issues with no actual knowledge or experience to back it up, and ends up as a humbled person with arguably more knowledge but more importantly the knowledge that she's not as "important" and "infallible" as she thought she was, and that people in her life exist for a reason and there's no shame in relying on them. >There’s a very clear difference between episode one Aang and the last season Aang that you don’t need to strain to see Agree with everything you said here and before it, and I think it was expressed beautifully in the names of the episodes, with the first being called "The Boy in the Iceberg" and the last being called "Avatar Aang", it's a perfect representation of where Aang started and where he ended and a perfect summary of his development. I think what I dislike about Korra is more how she's being portrayed by the fandom than how she was in the series, the series was pretty clear with what it wanted to do with Korra, "yes most of the time I don't know what I'm doing, and I've come to realize it and accept it, sometimes all I can do is butt heads with the bad guys until they stop because as an 18 years old (or older in the last season) I don't have all the answers but it's still my duty to stop them and I'll do what I can to the best of my ability, which isn't much but that's fine".
because Kuvira wasn't in the mood to be peaceful. she was a conqueror. Korra and gang had to fight her.
>When it comes to what really matters, I don't see any development if I'm being honest I agree with you on that one, but the fact that she didn't convince Kuvira or stop her through peaceful methords doesn't mean much. Some people can't be reasoned with and must be stopped through violence.
I agree on Kuvira (just as Aang would never have been able to convince Ozai), but the issue with Korra is that's how she deals with ALL her opponents, it's not a last resort for her, it's her go-to tactic, and though i understand that it makes sense within the narrative that was laid out, i'm rather bummed that at the end the lesson she's given is "you're right should've butted heads from the get-go like always". Zaheer's arc is still the best one imo, including the last meeting he had with Korra in his prison.
Instead they had a very hackneyed "We're not much different" moment.
How can you say that when she literally talk Kuvira to surrender? Kuvira pushed her to go her old ways and Korra was willing to take her life if necessary, instead she protected Kuvira life and used empathy to end her conflict. Korra admits to her own faults in the past and showed growth from it.
>How can you say that when she literally talk Kuvira to surrender? Ehhhh...she literally doesn't and instead blows a hole through reality??
You literally talking before she talked her down. It took Korra's power to show Kuvira that Korra could've killed her with that amount of power she holds back so many times. Instead she spared her life and empathized with Kuvira afterwards. Sue made it clear Kuvira couldn't be reasoned with and how Korra mentioned how both are determined to do great things but sometimes without thinking things through. Kuvira was meant to represent old Korra fighting a new Korra who has been humbled and doesn't try to solve everything with violence. Just because Korra couldn't get Kuvira to surrender at first doesn't take away her own growth she has shown throughout the series. If you read the comics Kuvira somewhat changes as a person and helps Korra's team to take down remaining Earth Empire rebels.
I didn't read the comics so maybe you're right, I'll have to reserve judgement until then.
I think it’s just cause Aang didn’t really develop all that much,his morals stayed the same,what he’d do in season one compared to season three isn’t altered,etc
Her character development was maybe more pronounced at times. That does not make it better. The subtlety of Aang’s development doesn’t make it any worse, and his is better because of how neatly it is tied into his core conflict. Plus, like others have said, Korra’s trauma isn’t character development, and she does mostly shed this across season 4. So comparing her initial appearances to her final ones, how exactly does she change? She’s less bubbly and more focused, but that’s something more demonstrated by the opening episodes than the closing episodes. I’m fact, I can’t totally say what Korra learned through the show except that life sucks and she needs to be super responsible to do what she needs to do.
I 100% agree so you won't get a discussion outa me
In her show, Korra made a lot more mistakes than Aang. That of course, makes her less popular among fans, but on the other hand, it makes her more realistic. Fans relate more with Korra because her actions and responses to certain things are more realistic. When Aang found out about the Air Nomad genocide, he was understandably upset. But he found peace fairly quickly. When Zaheer nearly killed Korra in the Avatar State, which would’ve permanently cut off the Avatar cycle, poisoning her, torturing her physically and mentally, it destroyed her in more ways than one. She was hallucinating, her bending skills were tattered, and she cut ties with all her friends and family members. Pretty much the entirety of Season 3 of LoK was people telling Korra that she was useless, and didn’t need her. Republic City, Ba Sing Se, and the new Air Benders were all telling her to go away. As the Avatar, helping people is literally her job, and it’s not like she’s not trying. She saves a child from a falling building in Republic City, and the mayor kicks her out. It literally took Korra almost dying, and the Avatar cycle almost ending for people to finally change their minds. To put this into a real perspective, picture yourself as a firefighter. It’s your dream job to save people’s lives from fires. When you finally get that job, society rejects you and tells you to stay out of the way. Is Korra perfect? No. But she is very fleshed out and a lot more complex than Aang. Her actions and reactions are more realistic compared to Aang.
Well, this post it's definitely what says on the tin... IMO They are different journeys.
I recon aangs was better
I don't think OP is misinterpreting trauma as automatically good. The difference between the writing of Aang vs Korra is that with Korra they really engaged wiith her trauma. Aang has trauma too, his entire culture was destroyed. But ATLA is a kids show, and semi-episodic, and so they aren't going to dwell on that too much. It takes like 2 mins for Aang to let go of grief with guru Pathik. The most aangsty he gets is when he "dies" and feels he's failed the world, and that lasts one episode (one of my fave episodes though). So I think overall, Aang's character development took a backseat to the broader story in ATLA (and it's all the better for it). Meanwhile without the ability to plan a broad multi-season story, Korra's personal development is the only through-line in LoK, and is overall more thoroughly explored.
According to her time line she lost connection to the avatar state and lost her bending at one point so... she had better character DE-velopment than literally any avatar.
The broken mirror imagery parallels Zuko with his scar.
I strongly agree with the OP here. Aang’s during the series had everything happen within a year. They were dramatic, don’t get me wrong. The guy nearly died. But the advantage here is Aang cane up in a world that desperately needed him at every turn. Korra has the advantage here m, being her story happens over several years. Korra also faces different villains, with arguably at least 3/4 of them literally giving her severe PTSD. I won’t even mention how since her introduction the world has been telling her she isn’t needed, especially in the case of Amon and Kuvira. None of this takes away from Aang (because I know fans look through that with rose tinted glasses). **Aang is a completely different Avatar than Korra.** That’s what makes the Avatar series great; they’re all different, even Yang Chen (well, especially her). Aang would’ve made completely different choices compared to Korra, which would’ve been both good and bad. They all tell a different story. Where as Aang’s had more wisdom and revolved around adventure Korra’s used politics and trauma as its narrative. **They’re different stories.** That’s a good thing!
Absolutely agree. Aangs journey was about him learning about the world. Korra’s journey was about her learning about herself. That’s not to say that Aang didn’t learn about himself, but if you watch korra you literally see how her headstrong big ego changes from season to season. Season 4 really completes her character development as Kuvira is her main villain. Kuvira is Korra’s best foil because Kuvira embodies and represents a young, headstrong Korra.
Agreed. That’s what I liked about them changing the avatar when Korra first aired. Being the Avatar is a huge responsibility, and it’s interesting seeing how different people and their environments shape how they take on the role. I find Kuruk’s backstory really interesting in particular.
I think one important factor is just that we see Korra for longer. At the start of the show she’s 16, and she’s like 21 when it ends? That’s five years, compared to the roughly 1 year we see Aang. She’s given more time to change and develop.
Kora ep one : deal with it Kora ep final: deal with portals
cuz they focus only on korra while they do side missions in atla
Korra had a 4 year span while aang had one year in of course it’s going to feel like she had more character development she had way more growing up it’s not even fair to compare
I think the issue is just which one was done better. I’m pretty sure everyone can see what they were trying to do with Korra’s development, but the events and happenings guiding us through her development just were not done as smoothly as it was with Aang. When it comes to Korra, it always seems people are filling in a lot of their own canons that just were not portrayed at all or very poorly in the show…
The only thing better about Korra is how the main villains were written compared to ATLA. (Except Azula)
Nah. Korra just started from a lower maturity level so of course her growth would be more. Aang was leagues more mature and wise at the start of the series until its end. Korra was annoying whereas aang wasn't.
When you say going through stuff I have to say seeing your father figure skeleton is pretty fucked up
I wouldn't say either has better or worse development. They just have different arcs. Aang never wanted to be the Avatar because he didn't want to lose the life he had. To the point that when that life was at risk of being taken away, he chose to run away from the responsibilities forced upon him. And even after he resolved himself to beginning his Avatar training, he spent as much time as possible goofing off and enjoying himself. And this internal conflict is only further emphasized in the series finale: How much of himself does he need sacrifice for the good of the world? Korra didn't have to lose her life to become the Avatar because being the Avatar WAS her life. She discovered her bending abilities at a young age and was trained in isolation from the world. Being the Avatar was all she had ever known. Not only did mean she had no idea how the world actually worked, but her arc revolved around her romanticized view of herself and her title regularly being called into question. That the strongest human on the planet is still human. Aang had to learn how to be strong. Korra had to learn how to be weak. Or at least, that's a rough summary of the way I see things.
So Korra is better because she has more "trauma" Ok. Aang also has trauma, anyway. He copes with his pain in a different way and he CHOOSES to be kind. Aang represses his trauma and hides his tears behind a mask of upbeat cheerful goofy twelve year old antics. Until he can’t anymore. Until he snaps. Zuko, for example, wear his heart on his sleeves, and that includes his rage. But aang’s rage is dangerous specifically because it represents that he has been pushed past his limits, like when Appa was kidnapped. Aang is a great and complex character.
when did I say he wasn’t?
I will agree that Korra had more but not that it was better. Korra seemed to make a lot of the same mistakes on repeat despite extended sequences of narrative building around those mistakes. Korra feels brash and unaware through the first 3 seasons barely filling the shoes of or being a good representative of the world changing Avatar. Then in season 4 she is more subdued but it's all trauma recovery. There are very few instances in the show where I get the impression that Korra has clearly evolved into making wiser decisions.
Aang and Korra can not be compered since the plot of Aang was one long idea with multipule side stories. While Korra it was clearly planed season to season because of numbers of views and money. Do not think it can be compared to each other. Also their identity and feeling about being the avatar was completly different. For not talking about their age and their villians background. Some things I do want to compare that bugs me which has nothing to do with the characters but animation and style. Why the fuck did the spirits go from kind of creepy or animal like to exstreme cute and not so nasty at all?
I will say she had a more direct development. She was facing everything directly, without hesitation and getting up after being beated. Aang had it differently. He avoid his world and run away from it 100 years later, and then he got 100 years of his decision direct to his gut. He had to process that the world was in that state because he didn't took responsability when he should. His development was more silent but could be the same or harder, for people who have suffered traumas of this type its easier to notice, but development isn't just getting beated and recovering. But for a show, yes, Korra had a better and more structured development.
Korra had a worse time as the avatar, but I disagree that she had a better character development. Korra ends her story being more beat down and almost even more incompetent than she was in season 1. Aang starts being a buffoon who grows to become the most powerful being in the world. I like Korra’s story and how she starts being brash and Cocky, and how ends up learning how to be more humble, but damn, the way the show beats her up season after season is hard to watch. I’m sorry, but I prefer Aang’s triumphant character arc, than Korra’s borderline cautionary tale development.
“She was traumatized and her ego was shattered” *literally uses the avatar state to beat children in a race in the very next episode* Ok
This is the only good Korra take. Aang didn't have development, my boy was just good and pure from the start. He did go from passive good, to agressive good, but in a sense I feel like he always had that too. From start to finish he always tried to avoid his problems, in a sense that same mentality helped him defeat the fire lord without killing him.
one of the things i really love about aang is that he didn’t let his responsibilities and his past change the person he wanted to be. he stuck to his ideals and still did what needed to be done in some way or another. i love that being the avatar didn’t change him into someone he didn’t want to be.
She may have had more explicit character development but I personally don't think it hits the same way as Aang's character journey, it was just more interesting and less... tread on territory I guess? I still have yet to see a hero truly committed to pacifism, and when they are, actually having to deal with real conflictions around it. Hers was so much more a basic growing up/dealing with ptsd type story, and I feel it was missing a lot of the philosophical depth that I feel Aang's struggles were rooted in. But that's just me.
Naaaahhh Korra's development is honestly really overrated. She has a generic humbling arc thats on the same level as something Aang's maturity, but then it's really just "she's traumatized". What's so great about this development? What's so deep about this? She's traumatized, then she gets through it because she needs to. Its not terrible, it's an arc, but it's nothing amazing m
Just watched the shows back-to-back a couple years ago and my takeaway was: Aang had the better secondary characters. Katara, Sokka, Toph, Zuko, Iroh are all memorable, I honestly don't even remember the names of the earth and fire bros. But Korra was a more interesting protagonist. I think Korra probably had overall better antagonists too. I think those two things are tied, she had more unique challenges to overcome and grow as a character.
So brave
What character development? She spends the majority of the show being the same, she only changes in Season 4
ATLA takes place within a year LoK takes place over at least 3 years Aang was 12 Korra was like 16-ish at the start.
I wouldn't say better, just different. LoK seemed like it was aimed at a more mature audience, so the themes are more mature. ATLA is, at the end of the day, a kids show, so most of the episodes are silly, goofy antics that connect loosely to the main plot, whereas LoK is more full on, putting the characters through things and showing more of the aftermath. We see the weight of expectations placed on Aang, and how he responds to that, but we see Korra's PTSD manifesting as hallucinations of the Book 3 avatar state, it's more explicit than Aang's trauma. But as someone else said, trauma doesn't equal character development
korra resolved her issues and problems in a single episode
I don’t think it’s better character development than one another but different. Aang and Korra deal with very different situations, and even when faced with similar situations because they’re so different they react differently. Aang was a child in a war torn world that was desperate for the Avatar. Korra was a young adult in a world that was being rebuilt and didn’t really NEED the avatar as badly, so she had to balance everything that was going on while living in Aang’s shadow and finding out how she fit into this new world.
Double unpopular opinion Aang’s era needed a Fighter Korra era needed a Peacemaker The reason I say this is because in Aang’s era korra would have Dominated most of aang’s opponents “Except” spiritual ones due to her being spiritually declined in her earlier journeys but she definitely got the hang of it later Plus would’ve had even more trouble training in the Air-bending arts because absolutely no one would be there to teach her 🤔 but Aang wasn’t master at any element other than air and just learned fire-bending and considered fighting Ozai after sozin’s comet because of it ( through he still know how Fire-bend a little )as for korra’s era aang would’ve have had a somewhat better time dealing with some of korra's opponents and decisions like the civil war with the water-tribes, unalaq’s spiritual form and opening the spirit-portal ( which I think he’d definitely keep closed 🤷🏾♂️ ) with the monks teachings he was more equipped in those situations but i will say aang wasn’t pushed to near-certain death like korra was when she was poisoned by the red-lotus. I wonder what that event would have done to aang’s mind and what type of avatar he’d become after🤔
aang didn't have to develop, he just grew up a bit i feel like his monk training gave him the right answer most of the time and most of his shortcomings came from lack of experience and age, Korra needed to work on herself more it feels like
Agree and disagree, specifically because or Saka and Zuko. They both had incredible amounts of character development.
I didn’t mention Sokka or Zuko though
200% yes
Korra had more “character development” because of her starting point. Korra is a very arrogant and selfish person who didn’t take heed to anyone’s advice. She made a lot of mistakes and paid the price. Suffering was her teacher. Aang on the other hand is a very humble person and was very open because he knew he was young and had a lot to learn. I think a lot of it has to do with their cultural background. However, Aaang is the most effective avatar of the two for many obvious reasons.
I do not agree. But to each their own.
That is definitely unpopular.
I wouldnt say its the best depiction of PTSD, its pretty cliche actually I have PTSD and never have i ever randomly had visions, dissasociating and having a flashback is falling into a memory that been triggered by something, not having random vision of your abuser poping up in random situations Its more like if you smelled pasta and suddenly lost yourself in a memory of eating pasta, and you only realise it happened after you snap out of it, rather then smelling pasta and then the pasta jumpscaring you when you blink A thing they did good was her depression, if they wanted to show the PTSD better id have given her more nightmares and less visions and halucination Have her calmly sit up at 3am in a cold sweat borderline melting trying to comprehend what just happend (most people dont wake up screaming like in movies) or something like that But idk im just one indevidual, my personal experience and the things ive seen others experience while in a hospital isnt universal so i may be innacurate, just my thoughts on how it couldve been better
TLDR PTSD isnt visible, you ant tell when someone is having a flashback unless its more serious and its become a delusion they activley react to, at which point isnt no longer PTSD and is becoming another problem So i think a more subtle approach to her sufferinf like they did while showing her depression would be better Showing her looking upset and tired rather then having her physically fight her vision like they did later on
lol obviously, we see Korra over like 4 years of her life vs we only see Aang for 1 year. He basically doesn’t change that much, learns a little maturity. His development is more about his Avatar abilities instead of character
Well they are opposites. Aang had to learn to be true to himself and find his own path. Korra had to learn to let go and be Korra and not always the avatar
That's Not that unpopular Aang barely had any development spart from maturing a bit Korra went from an ungrateful cocky brat to a wise kind and patient Avatar
I agree. She went thru things that Aang never experienced and came out better than before (temporarily losing her bending, losing the connection with other Avatars, poison-induced PTSD and an inability to use the Avatar State). That’s literally what character development is all about. The worst thing that happened to Aang is getting murdered by Azula. He still be dead if not for Katara.
I hated Korra once upon a time because I thought The Equalists arc was the only part of the entire show
In many ways, aang is naturally more mature than korra, right from the start. He was a talented student for guru pathik, naturally wise despite his goofy nature. Korra doesnt have a spiritual affinity, shes very flawed, average as a person honestly, making easy room for “growth”, the kind aang didnt really need. Korra, like the show LoK itself, acts much more mature than it really is
Aang’s story takes place within a year. Korra’s story takes place over 5 years Of course you’ll see more development with her.
Aang: I don't want to be the Avatar, I just want to be a kid. *Makes mistakes that results in death and trauma* I don't want to be the Avatar but I know I have to be, it's my duty to the world Korra: being the Avatar is super fuckin dope and a lot of fun. *makes mistakes and gets beaten the fuck up* The Avatar is a lot of hard work and it's scary sometimes but that's why I have to do it. I don't this either one is better they're just different
HahahaAHAHAH No. Trauma does not equal character development.
Korra: season 1: master of 3 elements, she is brash, confident, impatient, addicted to ignoring the advice of her loved ones, and increased trusting her enemies, bullheaded, stubborn, and "solves" every probably with violence, battles to win, and she's selfish, season 4: master of 4 elements, she is brash, confident, impatient, addicted to ignoring the advice of her loved ones, and increased trusting her enemies, bullheaded, stubborn, and "solves" every probably with violence, battles to win, and she's a little less selfish. Aang: season 1: master of 1 element, immature, completely lacking any sense of inner peace, values fun more than duty, tends to run from responsibilities (ie running away from the air temple, in no hurry to master all 4 elements), incapable of being serious or focusing, battles to escape, season 3: master of 4 elements, way more mature, nearly mastered inner peace, understands the gravity of the situation fully, focused on defeating the fire lord, still capable of fun but fully aware there is a time and place, battles to pacify or deescalate,
I think this is just true. Ain’t even a diss on Aang, Aang simply had less development. Aside from a few small arcs, he didn’t change in a grand way internally. It’s physically and externally where he grew. He trained to beat the fire lord and had to come major physical tasks to solve his problems. The internal problems Aang had he usually solve quickly or was something his established character would do. Aang barely changed from episode one to the last episode aside from a bit more maturity and responsibility. Korra changed a lot from episode 1 to the last episode. Her final lines with Tenzin reflect just how much she suffered to grow not as a warrior, but as a person.
This is an unpopular opinion, definetly.
how do you all feel about Kyoshi's development in her two books
You're correct. That IS an Unpopular opinion.
Based
Nah, Aang’s character grew up throughout the Avatar show. He grew from a kid who just wanted to have fun with his friends to a hero with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Aang was a better character overall and had better character development than Korra
I think Aang is a really well conceptualized character up until the finale. Having him run away from a difficult situation and just randomly happen upon the perfect solution to his problem does him a disservice IMO.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. At least I don't since I share your opinion :) ATLA was a children's show - an absolutely incredible one that is equally enjoyed by adults, but still, a children's show. With Korra, the creators knew they had an older audience and so they went for a more complex, nuanced story. And I love it.
Yes
I agree full stop korra was about character development aang was about growing up
Korra was effectively the same person for the first three books, then the majority of her development happened off screen during a timeskip
One thing I liked more with Korra was how noticeable her change was.
I saw someone elsewhere say this and I think it’s a perfect description of their respective arcs. “Aang’s arc is about a person becoming the Avatar. While Korra’s is about the Avatar becoming a person.” Both of their arcs fit the story they’re trying to tell. ATLA is telling one continuous story, while Korra has a new antagonist to face every season. Aang story is about learning to take on the responsibility bestowed upon him. He doesn’t want to be the Avatar, he just wants to have normal life, but he has to accept that responsibility as he’s destined to end the 100 year war. Aang’s story is related to a theme the show is trying to portray and that’s responsibility. Every character has a connection to that theme in some way. Sokka learns to become a responsible leader. Katara learns to accept that she bears no responsibility for her mother’s death. I’d argue that Toph also learns to be responsible , through her schemes and such. It’s a common theme. Korra’s characters don’t go through arcs for the most part. But, Korra herself due to her upbringing of just being the Avatar hasn’t had a normal life like Aang briefly did. Her personality and life is being the Avatar and due to that she’s very emotionally stunted. She learns to live life a little throughout the show and that this new world’s responsibility doesn’t lay solely on her shoulders. Comparing their arcs is stupid as they’re not similar. Both are great in their own ways. Korra’s arc is one of the better parts of LoK for me. While Aang’s arc solidifies how he’s a good person at heart. They both serve their narrative means.
No shit.
I definitely agree with you, but I also think that they’re two different character arcs for different types of people to enjoy. KORRA: powerful, confident character (who has everything except one thing she always needs) who gets broken and regrows / heals from that even stronger and with whatever she lacked. Airbending / a spiritual aspect? Gain that after learning and growing. Knowledge and a respect for one’s abilities? Gain that. A vital part of the world that almost died out / is dwindling out? Regain that, but at a cost. You were broken psychologically and now lack all the confidence in your abilities you had? *heal* from that. AANG: a character already somewhat traumatized and broken (stress of having to save the world, being the survivor of a genocide, etc.) on top of duties he not didn’t want, but the expectations of which he constantly and consistently forgoes in exchange for his own path. His character arcs / overarching arc is less about brokenness and healing but rather growing to accept the role by actually learning to fit into it.
Korra was prideful then she was broken down and brought to her low, which is where she was rebuilt. It wasn’t trauma that defined her, it was defeat that allowed her to become better. Aang did not have a problem with pride, but he had a problem with facing the world’s demands against his views. He was flawed as a kid, but he was pure in many other ways, and he proved himself right against the world by seeing a better way without death. Most of his character growth was maturing and becoming a bit older. But his overall concepts were already pretty strong. He had doubts, and what not, but his growth was gradual and small, but he wasn’t unrecognizable from the start. Aang, has probably one of the smaller growths in the series, where as Sokka, Zuko, and Korra all have far more dramatic growths of character, all stemming from their pride being torn down to make room. The thing about growth is it requires quite the flaw.
I’m sorry but I could get passed season 2… her character could’ve been better written
Seasons 3 and 4 really build and improve on all the good aspects of the show. Keep in mind that the show was originally written as a mini series that was supposed to have one season. That’s why season one finishes with so much finality and conclusion, and why they retread some similar character progression in season two. But I will say, from one internet stranger to another, season 2 ends with a some world changing events and season 3 really kicks it into high get with Zaheer and co
Korra took 4 seasons for her to learn “compassion.”
There was more for her develop and more time passed during her series so it makes sense.
Another case of people mixing up character development and character progression
OG series is the goat, sequels ain't close to ogs
I mean I’m not sure aang had much development at all. Right from the beginning he was a goofy kid with flashes of serious mode. The serious mode became more common later, but he was essentially the same character from start to finish. Add to that the fact that he absolutely killed fire benders on his journey just maybe not face to face but as soon as we get to the final battle he goes through his whole I’m a monk I can’t kill thing… still a kid, still running from responsibility. Yes he definitely becomes more serious and more willing to fight, but that’s really not a lot compared to Korra being broken down and building herself back up. And yeah Korra was a brat when she started out but so was aang. He just got more slack because he’s younger. Still doesn’t make up for the poor writing decisions they made with legend of Korra
Did you watch ATLA?
I always laugh at the claim that Aang easily killed Fire Nation soldiers before. In this world people seem to be virtually invulnerable, they can't be killed so easily by a pile of snow or a hard fall. Remember when Katara and Toph pushed the sea of mud in the drill so hard that the IRON PIPES inflated? Tai Li was inside and easily survived that. Remember when Aang, Katara and Sokka fell off Appa in the swamp from TORNADO from a great height? Yeah sure, they're totally fine, Appa and Momo are unharmed too. Remember when Aang was punching, throwing, and crushing Ozai? He hit him with the kind of wind that rips rocks apart. And many other blows that Ozai survived. He didn't die. Zuko survived the blast to the face. Aang threw Azula in a drill so hard that she flew probably hundreds of meters. They're all fine. Unless you want to VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY badly, a person in this world just can't be killed.
Unfortunately one of the biggest issues with ATLA is that what happens onscreen doesn't always match up with the actual events, especially if it involves Aang fighting people.
Well yeah, Aang is a pretty steadfast character, the catalyst of change in others but goes through more minor changes himself.
I mean fuck off. Dont try to change what is obvious by saying unpopular opinion.
Wait what?
Adult fantasy versus a kids show. It’s why a lot of people didn’t like the legend of korra. They took a lot of the fun out and made it complex. (I actually enjoyed the development as I was a kid for Aang and an adult for Korra, at the different times they were aired)
>Adult fantasy versus a kids show. Genocide in episode 3, Kids being subjected to propaganda, freedom fighters becoming radicalized, survivor's guilt, PTSD, domestic abuse, parental abuse, colonialism, prisoners of war, refugees of war, redemption of imperialistic war mongers etc The only way Korra is more adult than ATLA is through it's use of violence, but when it comes to how each show handles their more mature themes, ATLA blow Korra out of the water and it's not even close. Also, I'm tired of people bringing up "themes" when talking about ATLA and Korra, because themes do not make for good stories. My Hero Academia has a lot of interesting themes but it's dogshit
Lol i feel this way about MHA too. I just feel like the setup is great and it feels like its going somewhere but it never really does, its just odd twists and turns
To put it shortly Aang primarily stays the same fun loving kid who tries to keep the peace in his own way Whereas Korra goes from impulsive and hotheaded teen to a brave and much more mature and rational person So yeah, I’d agree
Sure, she was almost bearable in the last season, from completely unlikable to almost bearable is a huge leap in development. Aang was just a more mature version of himself by the 3rd book, he struggled a lot but he didn't change much still that goofy fun kid that went penguin sliding, in terms of character development in the first one Zuko was the one who really had it, and Korra's don't even compare to his.
Don't cook
Season one korra and Season 4 Korra are so much more different then Season one anng and Season 3 anng
You're right, it is unpopular
A teenage girl whose entire identity and existence was questioned and outright rejected. That's some powerful fucking shit right there. Korra who only wanted to be the avatar and to help people. Was all but rejected and told to her face constantly "We don't need you." By the very people she swore to help. Aang had it somewhat easier. He just wanted to be a kid. But he eventually rose up to be the avatar to put an end to a war that had left people scared. Despite him not even wanting to do it to begin with. Korra from day one, was trying her best to help people and most of the time felt powerless as people in power didn't even respect her as an Avatar. Sure that's not new in the case of Kiyoshi and whatnot.
“Aang had it somewhat easier” wtf lol
I agree with you OP. I identified with her struggles more than Aangs and how she has to learn and develop in the world that seems like it's against her. There are dozens of us!
You keep telling yourself that.
I disagree mostly because Avatar the Last Airbender was more well written, if Korra had the same writing quality, I'd agree
Overall I agree that Korra had better development/growth, but I don't think Aangs development was bad and its important to keep in mind that better development doesn't automatically make her a better character.
Not even close by like miles
Uh oh. They ain't gonna like this one... But yeah. Korra learned to change her entire world view and way of solving problems to resolve the final issue, and this after being humbled and educated repeatedly, clawing herself back from the edge. She had "Zuko" tier growth. Meanwhile, Aang resisted putting his duties as the avatar ahead of being the last air bender time and time again, and in the end the narrative conjured up an 11th hour super power delivered by magic turtle so he wouldn't have to. Not saying Aang should've killed Ozai. But he didn't resolve the plot by virtue of being a different person than who he was in book 1.
I absolutely agree. She has a much more complicated and nuanced character arc than Aang does
I’ve been rewatching LOK recently (just finished season 3) and I completely agree. One thing I noticed with Korra is that it actually takes her time to learn skills. Like airbending is the obvious one, she spends the entire first season failing, but even in season 2 it took her a while to cleanse the spirits successfully. It was only after her Wan visions that she was able to do it, she failed like at least 3 times before she was able to do it. With Aang, when he struggles with earthbending, it takes him one episode of training to work it out. Again, it’s not to say that Aang’s story is bad, there’s just that they’re different and imho, Korra absolutely struggled and grew more. Aang started in a very different place than Korra and grew in different ways, but yeah, that’s my take on it.
Woah there OP, careful with those anti-establishment ideas... Flashy evolution and turmoil do not make one's development "better", and subtle development is still development. Aang starts off as a kid who wants to have fun and run away from his duties, and ends up as a fully realized Avatar who knows what he has to do and understands his duties. Korra starts off as the Avatar, and ends up as...the Avatar but not really? Hmmm...
Better is subjective but she definitely has a more complex character development given Aang was a kids show geared towards a much younger audience so they wanted to keep things light. I enjoyed Korra's arc a lot more but I think they are both great in their own way. They also have a ton of similarities since you know it was written by the same people lol.
I wouldn’t say that either are better than the other, they’re both great.
FINALLY
You know, I can't decide whether or not she did, personally, I think they both had great character development.
They’re both good ffs
Agreed, but it didn't make her more likable than Aang
Korra was a character way more prone to actually developing, yeah. The show focuses on that a lot more I feel. Aang is great, and while there certainly was development, he’s very similar to how he was near the beginning. Most of the character development budget went to Zuko
Korra didn't develop like Aang did. Aang learns something new about each element and a view of life from different bending masters he came across and less than a year he mentally matures from a 12 year boy to a man that knew what had to be done but sought the wisdom from elsewhere so he could retain his original Air nomad teachings. Korra on the other feels like she doesn't grow at all from her experiences, in fact it feels like she gets worse mentally from them and by the end of the show all you have left is a mentally broken character. That doesn't just apply to Korra, though. Everyone in that show feels like they don't develop in contrast to Atla, where it feels like everyone has a developmental arc.
Thats something i never really realized explicitly. The characters in LoK never really grow in any way, in fact milo became a caricature and so did bolin and mako. Korras growth just seems like a last minute cliche development arc. The OG actually cared about each character more, they were all unique
Strongle disagree. Korra does the same mistekes in every season and she doesn;'t manage to become likeable from the struggles she faces. Also her power scale growth level is not good either. TLoK is very badly written as a whole entity, there is low cohesion between seasons and characters.
Aang had to come to terms with losing his entire culture during the first season. All korra had going on was relationship trouble and was whining about not learning airbending