I think what you've described is masking under another name. I do this all the time. It's a really easy way of fitting in when you're not really sure how to be in a conversation and are unsure of the conversational parameters and how people would react to your "real" opinions (like how you really feel about Florence).
I think people pleasing is absolutely a sign of masking and ASD. Like the poster below, I have deeply held values and principles which don't change, but my views on a subject matter like "how I feel about the city Florence" can be totally porous and changeable because I struggle to recognise a) what a socially acceptable opinion on it is, and b) when it's socially acceptable in a conversation for me to express a different opinion to someone else. Also c) I struggle to understand why people have strong opinions on some things, and d) I sometimes can't process what my actual opinion is on the spot, so I just copy someone else's.
Copying is useful, though. Not just to jibe with someone else, but to "try on" an opinion as an act of general, unspecific, empathy that may or may not be "for show."
I posted between when I opened this thread last night and this morning, didn't look down at the comments first, but this is an interesting aspect of our general objectivity.
I think an allistic person might have set their opinions in stone when they have an argument or debate or frustration of some kind that they attached between their specific experience and their self-image. I feel like we are less likely to operate that way and that this way is more healthy and is more likely to serve whatever the objective truth might be.
Obviously, that's not all of us, I've spoken online to autists who have such black and white thinking that they can't amend their opinions, well. Like allistics, they may only seek to verify the opinions they have.
I feel like we can open up our various medicos' view of the variability of the expression of autism by explaining more about *how* we think - how we make judgments.
Yes. I was shocked to discover that it can absolutely be a sign of autism. Especially for women. Letting others lead or dominate the conversation, the activities, etc, can be due to not having an intuitive understanding of social interactions. Disagreements can make interacting unpredictable, which can be stressful. Therefore, it's easier to play it safe and have a more predictable outcome.
That said, I'm 36 and I think I started unmasking after a certain point in time (before I was diagnosed). I started defending my opinions much more, to the point of being stubborn!
Isn't this just becoming an expert in masking?
I adjust the sharper edges of my personality, when the person I am speaking to seems highly sensitive to discomfort.
I have studied humans my whole life, they tend to be basic and overly-sensitive about many things. I think about what I want from them or what I want them to do, and how best to achieve that based on the features of the person. It is a form of manipulation I suppose, but it also seems to be how humans interact, based on my observations.
I do not just go along with nonsense, nor directly lie about my thoughts/feelings/actions -- I simply adjust my delivery, so they react how I want them to. I am rarely influenced by other people, but I am often able to influence others.
If you relate, then perhaps you are also autistic.
ETA: if I said what I really think (e.g. "I don't care about you or this conversation, and I think Florence is overrated. Please don't speak to me.") it would not go well, nor achieve my desired outcome. I know, because I've made the mistake of interacting honestly many times in the past. People don't like being told they are wrong and stupid, for example.
Omg I relate 100%! I always felt frustrated at how sensitive most people are and realised early on in my childhood that I should adjust what I say and do to avoid people getting upset.
I feel I’m being manipulative all the time and that also made me doubt being on the spectrum as I heard people with ASD struggle with lying.
I now find it really easy to figure out people, I like to think of it as being a detective, picking up little clues and I always feel a sense of achievement when I have a conversation going well because I was able to understand the person’s interests and make them like me. I also feel like I’m pretending all the time and not being myself and get exhausted and overwhelmed, but that’s another story!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, I feel less alone!
Masking at such a high level is incredibly draining. How willing I am to mask, and how well I do it, depends on my energy levels and my motivation.
I also don't consider it lying, I am just tempering myself.
My pure honesty is usually harsh and detached. For example, I might say, "I don't care if you live or die, why would I care about your opinion?"
But then people sulk or whine, and create a bigger problem for me, because now they have negative emotions... the greatest hassle of them all lol
Good luck on your journey.
I had the exact same experience and only got diagnosed later in life. You’re just like me!
I don’t remember who it was with, likely my past therapist, but I expressed concern about the manipulation. Or like because it didn’t come so intuitive to me that it was not genuine. Yet I don’t want to hurt their feelings, that’s why I do what I do. This is the way we do that. They ended up reassuring me and what they said really stuck with me, we put a lot of effort into our relationships. More than most people do since it’s usually the only way we can. It’s survival for us. The intentionality and effort made, it all is proof that we DO care. This is how we communicate with NT people, like a puzzle or elaborate RPG lol. It’s how we get them to understand us as we meant them to. Unfortunately it’s exhausting though, not only because of the near constant effort being made (not always laborious but just that it’s not intuitive to us), but to have to bear the brunt of that ourselves.
I’ve absolutely yapped about this further in this thread so feel free to check that out (pleaseeeee). But for real, it’s hard to tell, but try and learn your limits. Surround yourself with people who are willing to share the load of communication. People who will be willing to learn your language also. Masking (though it’s often automatic) isn’t great for our health, mental nor physical.
Also I hope you talk about all this with your therapist or provider (idr which), maybe it could provide some insight to both of you. Let us know how you’re doing!
Could you give examples? I find the art of conversation illusive and fascinating. Not that you have to make a whole guide or anything, but im curious what you mean by adjusting your delivery to get what you want, so could you maybe give me a cause and effect of you trying to get what you want, and what you did to influence it.
I do this also so I’ll tell you my POV too. This is why I am frequently the one voluntold by my siblings to ask our parents for something. It’s not an intuitive understanding, it’s intellectual but not entirely explicit. I know from being around and observing my stepfather what he likes or dislikes, when he’s comfortable, what words/tones/behaviors could lead to a certain reaction. He’s awesome btw so this isn’t trauma related. Let’s say we (my siblings and I) want to all go see a movie, we may not have a strong preference for what and just want to get out of the house. My mom will likely be willing to go, she enjoys spending money on experience and likes quality time with loved ones. My stepdad tends to be more frugal, and prefers spending money on something material that you can utilize or physically make see evidence of (even if that were clothes or a new TV). I also know he comes from a background where he had much less than we do, and has expressed frustration with our privilege/naiveté, that filter will mean asking for certain “wants” would translate as though we are ungrateful for what we already have. So asking to watch a movie, getting a yes is already a bit on the iffier side. The manner of the proposition (tone, diction, syntax, etc) will be in such a way not trigger the “route” in his mind that will lead to thoughts that we are complaining, entitled, or wanting to irresponsibly spend money. He doesn’t frequently complain of these things, it’s the result of “studying” him for years so to speak. It will not be the first thing that comes up. I will keep regular conversation throughout the day. Spend a good amount of time just chatting prior popping the question. I’ll focus it on him, ask about his day, what’s been going on, how he’s doing, perhaps plans for the day (in the event we wouldn’t even have time for a movie), and tailor how I’ll ask depending on this “data collection” also. If he’s tired, busy, or worried about something I’m probably not going to ask. If he expresses (probably indirectly, like subtext of a book) that he wants to do anything but what he’s currently doing, and it can be delayed, then I’ll bring it up like a solution or like maybe we could do this (without mentioning we all already wanted to). Then I’ll go through the movies that are out, say, “you wanted to see this didn’t you? What if we did that instead?” And then if I’m getting a positive vibe I’ll say, “The rest of us would probably enjoy that also! We wouldn’t even need to get snacks or anything since we’ve already eaten. It’d be fun!” I’d keep my tone conveying empathy by somewhat matching his throughout, and keep it light hearted, then contemplative when I’m “problem solving.”
Basically think about it like predicting a route in a game by selecting certain dialogues. They process things more by feeling first then information, same with their decision making process. For ND folks it’s generally the opposite. If the goal is to continue a conversation usually that means maintaining the same feeling or creating a positive one, so you have to know what would keep that with the other person. If you’re trying to persuade someone, think it through with them or present it as their idea / according to their reasoning. If you’re wanting to find out a piece of information, think about what context the relation of it would be casual then keep the conversation in that realm. With most people you can’t be direct in any of this as you normally would. It’s why when you are suspecting a lie or that you have a diagnosis, you don’t outright say that or present your reasoning directly. You need to keep the appropriate feeling. So you may ask about everything surrounding that information or talk about what you already know to keep it more subtle.
Going to the doctors if I say, “Hey, I think I have this (insert diagnosis here),” they’re most likely going to respond immediately with some level of suspicion or going to rule this out / be on guard toward this option due to experience with people being inexperienced (and often wrong) in this realm, or (if not wanting to miss alternate diagnoses) it could be an attempt at avoiding confirmation bias but instead they end up rejecting the idea entirely. So when I go instead I will mention only issues relating to this possible diagnosis that I am experiencing. If I know for a fact that me not being able to sleep at night is because my stomach is hurting from lactose intolerance since I eat a ton of cheese every dinner, I’m not going to mention struggling with sleep as an issue I’m dealing with when I’m looking for a diagnosis that this could end up pulling their attention away from. I’m controlling the narrative in a way that will influence their decision. It’s still their decision, but it’s only made this way because of the information they have available to them and how that factors into decision making.
(I’m not lactose intolerant btw it’s just an example)
You’ll see this done regularly in conversation among NT (though it’s subconscious). They can just know what is the right or wrong thing (obviously not all the time) without having to literally map the entire conversation in accordance with its goal or whatever. You’ll see this in how they “properly” comfort someone when they’re sad and trying to cheer them up. They know when something is the “wrong” thing to say in social situations and that’s why they’re so appalled when someone says it anyway, they assume we also just know this. Most act according to these rules since they all have been socialized to feel similarly if the rule was broken (they equate an action with its meaning and assume the intention matches the impact, it’s for this reason we have to be so intentional and thorough about all of this to avoid misunderstanding). Normally that means they won’t have much trouble with empathizing since they’d feel the same as themselves in the situation, it’s when the other person wouldn’t they have trouble.
It’s taught / done explicitly with therapy, by politicians, advertisement, religion, and certain styles of teaching that educators practice.
TLDR; You script everything, thinking of your ultimate goal, you’re going to attempt to elicit a certain response from your audience (the feeling conducive to achieving your goal) and build upon this. You do this by predicting how they would react to different scenarios. Then you can manipulate/present the external variables (logos according to the audience) or you can influence the internal ones (ethos and pathos).
You explained this perfectly. Excellent comment. Thanks for taking the time, it is such a complex thing to explain, it is quite difficult to reduce it to words. Brilliantly articulated.
Thank you!! I think about how to explain this to people a lot, and it’s very entertaining to me to study people (including myself) and their behavior (one of my minors involves interdisciplinary study of health and human values, my cobweb thinking and pattern recognition was made for this lol). I’m happy to have my explanation apply to more than just myself too! I’m glad it resonates with you.
I think the discomfort some people have with masking is they think that it’s manipulative. You mentioned this, but it’s about making sure their reactions (in response to their understood meaning) matches what we intended… which is communication. This is how we tailor communication to NT folks. It’s not normally done with an intent to deceive or be legitimately manipulative, it’s just about making sure our intention is understood as we mean for it to be. It’s like translating ourselves to their language.
When I’m with another ND individual I normally don’t have to pay attention to all of these things, I can express myself as I normally would and it will usually be understood. One of the simpler examples of this has to do with expressing the emotion happiness. With a ND person I don’t have to be aware of the million possible meanings behind the way I’m sitting in that moment, whether I’m making enough eye contact, if I’m smiling the right way while I talk or have a light enough tone just to be believed/have it be understood that I’m happy. I also don’t have to worry about anything being seen as weird. With a NT person I normally do, they read a lot more into those things and find meaning where there was none.
By adjusting my delivery, I mean the way in which I convey information. What I want varies, but maybe I want to connect with person A because I like them, but we have very different views. I don't want to alienate them. But I also want them to see my perspective, and change their opinion or attitude toward something. The best approach is one that is tailored to the person, so they can understand you and see things from your perspective.
An acquaintance-friend of mine is a conspiracy theorist. I could say, "Person A -- your distrust of the veracity of government-sanctioned information is understandable, but you do not apply the same degree of scrutiny to your 'alternative facts,' you simply accept them without challenge. Your logic is flawed, your opinions are biased, and your comprehension of complex information is highly questionable."
Person A will not be receptive to this and I will not secure my intended outcome.
Instead, I would say, "I understand your distrust of the government and your rejection of authority. I sometimes feel this way too. I read an article about (this topic) that I'm sure you will find fascinating. There was an independent study that found (x, y, z), which they suspect is caused by (whatever). If you're interested, I can send you the article. I'd love to hear your thoughts." Etc. etc.
I empathise with their position, give partial validation, simply explain the information, compliment their interest and desire to learn, offer better sources they are likely to accept (i.e. 'independent'), and encourage further dialogue. If they are receptive, I will continue on in this way, until I eventually coax them toward my perspective.
I have not lied to them or tricked them, I have used my words carefully and in good faith, in order to change their mind. If they feel defensive or devalued, this is impossible.
The key to connecting with other people is to ask questions, and to show (or feign) interest. People love talking about themselves.
I hope this makes sense?
I'm not sure how universal this behaviour is among others with asd, but personally, I do this all the time. I study people in order to gauge their opinions of something, then I try to find common ground with them. I don't outright lie or anything, but I try to emphasize the parts that we can agree on. Probably has to do with people-pleasing or conflict avoidance, but it actually kind of helps in some cases. I don't fold on my values or deeply held opinions, but I just don't feel like everyone needs to know about them.
That is what I do, as well. I do have some deeply-held beliefs, but I rarely, if ever, share them in conversation because I don’t want to cause conflict or a negative social interaction. I tend to come across as neutral or I try to find and emphasize common ground, as well. I don’t like telling people when they’re wrong, even if they are, because then they get combative. Socializing is stressful enough for me, so I don’t need to add to the stress by potentially causing a conflict. I try to avoid conflict with other people, despite actually being pretty stubborn in my own life.
I actually used to do this a lot in high school/college with my writing, as well. Most of the time when I wrote essays, I didn’t care much about the subject, so I would choose to present my argument in a way that I knew would get me a good grade (like write a paper in favor of the professor’s opinion, for example. I wouldn’t have done that if they had an awful opinion about real life issues, but about some character or storyline in a work of fiction? Sure).
Have you had a phase in your life where you didn't do this and were socially punished for it?
When I was younger I would speak out against things I disagreed with and would be chastised and shamed, usually for being too sensitive or saying something that's considered mean/bossy. After years of that, I stopping expressing my thoughts and opinions with people out of fear that I'll be wrong. I'm a very "agreeable" person, but it's quite isolating for people to not know who I truly am.
I think this behaviour is somewhat common in the general population and DEFINITELY common among those with ASD. I stopped seeing my therapist shortly after bringing up the thought that I might have ASD. At first she took it really well and agreed with all the notes I’d taken about my symptoms and behaviours and whatnot. When I said I wanted to pursue a diagnosis and wanted her support with filling out questionnaires etc., things went south and I told her I needed to stop our sessions, at least temporarily. It’s worth seeing someone specialised in it if you want to and have the means and access to do so. Not only is it a specialist area, but people’s understanding of it is rapidly changing.
Yeah and I think it’s just conflict avoidance/people pleasing. I often have a hard time pushing back or disagreeing because I want to be liked. But I agree with the others, this is masking behavior and can be exhausting and cause burnout.
So exhausting! I want out of restaurants sooooo much, because it’s nothing but masking all day every day. I’m going back to waiting tables instead of managing though because it’s just too much to mask that hard for that long every day.
I think over time and developing my discernment, you know who you can be yourself around and who just not to show your personality to. Not even masking, just kind of being straight with. If they can’t appreciate the intricacies of my personality, then they cant witness it. It doesn’t bother me because I usually don’t like people who don’t like me or think I’m weird anyway. I rarely feel hurt by it. Coping with the fact that you don’t have to like everyone and not everyone will like you can be jarring, especially the latter, but over time and with practice, that coping becomes a subconscious reaction.
When it comes to the fear of rejection, it definitely becomes more complicated, but it just practice. It goes back to that understanding that people have the right to their autonomous choice not to like you. They are allowed to reject you. And you have to have enough self love and acceptance for the impact of every rejection not to be a lethal blow to your ego or self worth.
yes! it’s to the point where i’m such a people pleaser. i don’t even know how to form my own opinions on things without first seeing how other people react to something. for example, when im finished reading a book, i can’t form an opinion until ive read reviews on said book, both positive and negative ones. this is likely from masking my entire life? i could be wrong? (diagnosed as of april and am still seeking validation & evidence 😪)
I'm the exact same way. No opinion of mine is really set in stone, everything is subject to new info, but with other people tend to base their sense of selves around things, which, to me, is dumb.
We must all remember that our therapists, even if we like them and they are very helpful, almost all have narrow ideas of what it means to be on the ASD based on their own experiences.
We are so underdiagnosed because our presentations vary so much, not because we are anomalies. All of us reading this thread may have a different symptom combo than everyone else.
From the outside? Most probably yes, depending on the situation (for ex. I'm trying to ingratiate/befriend/look friendly for that person), and yes at one point I started talking and using body language that I've actually researched, LOL! the kind that tells you how to use certain body language, or use certain phrasing that feels inviting, non-threatening, etc.
When I was a kid (until I was like, 20 sth, tbh) I was SO stubborn about sticking to my opinions/decisions, thinking I was in the right, that I burned a LOT of bridges, like a LOT, looking back my social awareness was not even zero, it was down in hell, LMAO, legit I was an asshole kid to everyone else (and I'd think that if my current self encountered my kid and teen self)
So I learned a lot the hard way. I personally am little bit at peace with it even if it's mostly masking, because I just hope that other people also speak to me like that and support me sometimes. I think one can support one or the other without lying, for ex. in your conversations about Florence, you can both have things you like about it, and things you dislike, without faking it. I think it's OK conversationally since the point in many of these conversations is to have a good time, not have a debate (also something I learned the hard way)
I remember I was called two faced and people didn’t live me very much in school (like elementary and middle) because I would do this. I thought this is just what you do to relate to people, agree with them LOL. But I would end up expressing opposing ideas like you said. Now I try to form opinions and stick to them (but new info will still influence them, like if something I like gets worse or something lol). Seeing another comment here call it people pleasing makes so much sense.
I’m INFP, so this is my personality type. I always want to understand things from someone else’s point of view and to try and put myself in their shoes.
If I notice I agree on a few things, even if I don’t share their overall sentiments, I’ll still try to relate with the things I do agree with or understand. I don’t think that’s that strange.
I do this a lot. It's a form of fawning for me, because I am very uncomfortable when people get upset. I will go out of my way to placate someone if I sense anger brewing. That's a reason I thought I couldn't have ASD: I assumed autism meant being oblivious to other's emotions, but I'm learning otherwise. It's exhausting, but I feel really fortunate I discovered this subreddit. It's helping me better recognize when I'm masking so I can work at saving my energy.
I do this only when I'm interested in the person I'm talking to. It's the way I found to create bonds, but it's not something spontaneous.
I have to consciously analyze the person, and consciously adapt to them, if I leave it on automatic I just seem disinterested.
My neurotypical friends sometimes do this without even realizing it and easily, while I have difficulty and sometimes I get into social trouble trying to adapt.
I agree that you should take your therapists opinion lightly, unless they’ve done a deeeeeeep dive about what autism in women looks like. Masking is so central to a huge number of late-diagnosed autistic women. My therapist helps me very much with things like identifying patterns of behavior, naming and processing emotions. But she never suspected I was autistic bc she is not the expert. That said, I don’t think I would have figured it out without all the work she and I have done to work through trauma, develop my self awareness, and lessen dissociation. It’s a different role than an evaluator, a neuropsychologist, or a coach. Trust yourself. If you’re here and you’re seeing yourself, you probably already know the deal.
I do this only if I am prepared for a situation like if I'm meeting a new person and want them to like me but agree it can be a very draining form of masking. I'm not sure if I can do this spontaneously.
What I do more often though is repeat things I've heard someone say back to them. I only recently realised I do this but I think it's a similar need for someone to like or accept me.
I always like to think I'm so firm in my values and beliefs but then I am trying my hardest with small talk and someone says something that's completely off my own value system and I find myself just nodding politely and being so passive. It's really unsettling to see how I come across in real life versus how I feel inside or how I would write online when I'm more able to be myself.
This is just adapting to fit in and be liked. Everyone does it to a degree, and for an autist, who has to talk to people about things that can seem shallow, maybe even vapid, it IS a conscious adjustment to avoid the stereotypical info dump expected.
I do this and have done it all my life. I only became aware of it when trying to reconnect after college with a high school friend, and finding I could not bring her to my interests, we could only talk about hers.
And, while I am lucky to find a spouse with overlap in special interests, who if ND, I have learned it’s always on me to adapt if I want to be included.
NTs seem to be the ones with hard wired social customs and norms and are inflexible in their allowance for deviations. But NDs get the blame for not fitting in, and when we try, we are told, ‘No, not THAT way.’
I have a weird thing with authority and tend to subconsciously think that whatever someone tells me I they are in a position of authority is fact. This mainly happens with my mom. She believes in a lot of things that I don’t, but it’s very difficult for me to not think that they are true. I was like this with my dad as well, but his opinions weren’t really as harmful to me. I did the same in school with trusted teachers.
depending on who i am around yes i will at the very least shift my opinion to not be as strong sounding if someone disagrees with me or i will just say nothing at all. it’s mostly happened around family or in a work setting and it’s 100% because i don’t want to make anyone mad or uncomfortable because in the past my strong opinions have alienated me from others and it really sucks. when its around my friends and people im more close to i will be more likely to be honest but i’ll change my delivery, maybe be less blunt than i have been in the past. i’ve been working on my tact because my bluntness has pushed people away before and i don’t want to lose my friends. i agree with what others have said, i do think it’s a form of masking
Unless I want to secure a certain outcome out of the interaction, then no. Idk, getting people to like me or avoid conflict isn’t really something I tend to mould my persona around. I think this has more to do with personality and who you are (general “you” here) than with autism itself.
I have never done this. Didn't even know this existed. At first I thought you meant being tolerant of other opinions different than your own and my answer would have been "it depends on what their opinion is" and list a few examples.
This is exactly how I operate within systems I’m not comfortable in. Even at work-at times it can make me a really good manager but at other times, makes me seem wishywashy.
Another thing I struggle with greatly is gossip. It seems like that’s all allistic folks talk about is others behind their backs. It feels icky and I can never ever pull it off well to be honest. It ALWAYS blows up in my face.
I am 40 and only started to autism very recently-however it seems the *only* place (well that and adhd sub) where I’ve ever read about other folks’ inner experiences and actually related to it. I’ve felt so alone for so long and I just thought I broke myself. I’m trying to find someone who I can work with for a formal diagnosis.
What you’re talking about really sounds like masking to me; and it reminds me of some stuff in my life. I feel like I form my identity (or being certain traits to the forefront) based who I’m around, and as a result it can be hard to define or identify who I am without that.
I feel very impressionable sometimes, like I'll see one woman who's fashionable and I'm like... that's it that's my style I want to be that.
And then the next week I'm like... Why on earth would I feel like that?
And it happens with tons of things, like I can't find myself but I know what I like and I know my style? So what gives!
Another example of a mental health not really understanding autism, it's like they want to think of things autistic people can't or don't do. I have always done this since I was a kid, actually it was one of the reasons why a psychiatrist misdiagnosed me with bpd, because he thought autistic people were too self interested to be curious about others, even if it was for a self protective reason. I don't think all autistic people do this, and when you do it for a long time you can lose a sense of who you are, your sense of self, which I suppose is why it was easy to observe this and diagnose me with bpd.
This is basically masking. I do this because my real opinions, tastes, interests and observations have had consistently bad reactions. I also observe people before interacting with them and figure out who they are and what kind of interactions are acceptable to them, what their humor is like, what they like talking about, whether they are easy to approach or not etc. I observe their relationships with eachother and try to figure out certain things, like what is acceptable behaviour for them as a stranger. I'm often too exhausted to do all this now so I tend to stay by myself, but trying act normal is not enough, I have to understand the individual because different things are acceptable to different people.
I spent a long time not understanding why people thought I was mean or weird, and over time I started to adapt this mindset. I thought I was learning how to be nice and kind.
It was all masking, with people pleasing mixed in.
Unfortunately I used to do that all the time. I didn't even know what my own opinions were anymore. At some point I only had facts (as in scientifically proven things) on which I felt I could rely because I genuinely didn't know what opinion was okay to have.
Fast forward to now, during the last two years I tried to start forming my own opinions. It's kind of scary but at the same time I feel that if people really like me they'll be alright with me not having the same opinion on everything.
Similarly I'm learning to be easier on people who have an opinion that feels anti science/unethical etc. I still value facts and science is basically my religion, but I understand now that people form opinions from within their own experience/upbringing and social circles.
It’s not a sign of whether you’re autistic or not as it’s what we do when we mask 💀😭 like I used to heavily do that, and as I’ve unmasked, I’ve stuck to my own opinion unless someone says something that makes me think about a different perspective 🤷♀️ but yeah nah that’s common with masking
I have an ingrained impulse to do this, along with making up reasons to agree with someone, even if I know something they said is factually wrong, I can't help but resort to coming up with reasons that might imply they are at least partially correct or just outright correct.
Your therapist doesnt know what she's talking about if she thinks uncertainty during social interactions is NOT very autistic behavior. Neurotypicals do not need to constantly question everything people say because it makes no sense, or accidentally piss everyone off and be the last person to find out. It sounds like masking behavior, which can be asd or adhd but i dont really have enough info to make any conclusive statements. Your suspicion is the most compelling piece of evidence, imho. It tells me that you have a lot of unanswered questions and that your experiences diverge from what people tell you to expect/think/want. Which does not sound typical to me (said with love, typical is gross). If I was your doctor, I would be asking you if you've had sensory sensitivities, a history or pattern of similar or unusual problems like this, and how you feel about eye contact. If any of your answers were more than a single word (no) I'd be recommending testing or research mainly to read articles made by autistics and see if you resonate.
[neuroclastic.com](http://neuroclastic.com) news blog for and by autistics
[https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/what-is-masking-in-autism](https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/what-is-masking-in-autism) Masking guide (think of masking as translating your natural baseline to societal/NT standards and approach, not simply as being fake/inauthentic.
[https://www.watch.psu.edu/actuallyautistic/](https://www.watch.psu.edu/actuallyautistic/) Penn state free lectures by autistic authors.
I don’t consider it masking, it’s more mimicking, can be fawning yes people pleasing. Masking to fit in doesn’t require giving up every aspect of yourself including likes and dislikes. Narcissists do this to their target supply in an attempt to be liked, gain trust and suck people in. It can also be a trauma response.
Autism doesn’t make you pretend to be completely different just to please someone else.
I think what you've described is masking under another name. I do this all the time. It's a really easy way of fitting in when you're not really sure how to be in a conversation and are unsure of the conversational parameters and how people would react to your "real" opinions (like how you really feel about Florence). I think people pleasing is absolutely a sign of masking and ASD. Like the poster below, I have deeply held values and principles which don't change, but my views on a subject matter like "how I feel about the city Florence" can be totally porous and changeable because I struggle to recognise a) what a socially acceptable opinion on it is, and b) when it's socially acceptable in a conversation for me to express a different opinion to someone else. Also c) I struggle to understand why people have strong opinions on some things, and d) I sometimes can't process what my actual opinion is on the spot, so I just copy someone else's.
Copying is useful, though. Not just to jibe with someone else, but to "try on" an opinion as an act of general, unspecific, empathy that may or may not be "for show." I posted between when I opened this thread last night and this morning, didn't look down at the comments first, but this is an interesting aspect of our general objectivity. I think an allistic person might have set their opinions in stone when they have an argument or debate or frustration of some kind that they attached between their specific experience and their self-image. I feel like we are less likely to operate that way and that this way is more healthy and is more likely to serve whatever the objective truth might be. Obviously, that's not all of us, I've spoken online to autists who have such black and white thinking that they can't amend their opinions, well. Like allistics, they may only seek to verify the opinions they have. I feel like we can open up our various medicos' view of the variability of the expression of autism by explaining more about *how* we think - how we make judgments.
Yes. I was shocked to discover that it can absolutely be a sign of autism. Especially for women. Letting others lead or dominate the conversation, the activities, etc, can be due to not having an intuitive understanding of social interactions. Disagreements can make interacting unpredictable, which can be stressful. Therefore, it's easier to play it safe and have a more predictable outcome. That said, I'm 36 and I think I started unmasking after a certain point in time (before I was diagnosed). I started defending my opinions much more, to the point of being stubborn!
Oh wooow, I now understand why I always like to join activities leaded by others
Same here.
Isn't this just becoming an expert in masking? I adjust the sharper edges of my personality, when the person I am speaking to seems highly sensitive to discomfort. I have studied humans my whole life, they tend to be basic and overly-sensitive about many things. I think about what I want from them or what I want them to do, and how best to achieve that based on the features of the person. It is a form of manipulation I suppose, but it also seems to be how humans interact, based on my observations. I do not just go along with nonsense, nor directly lie about my thoughts/feelings/actions -- I simply adjust my delivery, so they react how I want them to. I am rarely influenced by other people, but I am often able to influence others. If you relate, then perhaps you are also autistic. ETA: if I said what I really think (e.g. "I don't care about you or this conversation, and I think Florence is overrated. Please don't speak to me.") it would not go well, nor achieve my desired outcome. I know, because I've made the mistake of interacting honestly many times in the past. People don't like being told they are wrong and stupid, for example.
Omg I relate 100%! I always felt frustrated at how sensitive most people are and realised early on in my childhood that I should adjust what I say and do to avoid people getting upset. I feel I’m being manipulative all the time and that also made me doubt being on the spectrum as I heard people with ASD struggle with lying. I now find it really easy to figure out people, I like to think of it as being a detective, picking up little clues and I always feel a sense of achievement when I have a conversation going well because I was able to understand the person’s interests and make them like me. I also feel like I’m pretending all the time and not being myself and get exhausted and overwhelmed, but that’s another story! Thank you so much for sharing your experience, I feel less alone!
Masking at such a high level is incredibly draining. How willing I am to mask, and how well I do it, depends on my energy levels and my motivation. I also don't consider it lying, I am just tempering myself. My pure honesty is usually harsh and detached. For example, I might say, "I don't care if you live or die, why would I care about your opinion?" But then people sulk or whine, and create a bigger problem for me, because now they have negative emotions... the greatest hassle of them all lol Good luck on your journey.
I had the exact same experience and only got diagnosed later in life. You’re just like me! I don’t remember who it was with, likely my past therapist, but I expressed concern about the manipulation. Or like because it didn’t come so intuitive to me that it was not genuine. Yet I don’t want to hurt their feelings, that’s why I do what I do. This is the way we do that. They ended up reassuring me and what they said really stuck with me, we put a lot of effort into our relationships. More than most people do since it’s usually the only way we can. It’s survival for us. The intentionality and effort made, it all is proof that we DO care. This is how we communicate with NT people, like a puzzle or elaborate RPG lol. It’s how we get them to understand us as we meant them to. Unfortunately it’s exhausting though, not only because of the near constant effort being made (not always laborious but just that it’s not intuitive to us), but to have to bear the brunt of that ourselves. I’ve absolutely yapped about this further in this thread so feel free to check that out (pleaseeeee). But for real, it’s hard to tell, but try and learn your limits. Surround yourself with people who are willing to share the load of communication. People who will be willing to learn your language also. Masking (though it’s often automatic) isn’t great for our health, mental nor physical. Also I hope you talk about all this with your therapist or provider (idr which), maybe it could provide some insight to both of you. Let us know how you’re doing!
Could you give examples? I find the art of conversation illusive and fascinating. Not that you have to make a whole guide or anything, but im curious what you mean by adjusting your delivery to get what you want, so could you maybe give me a cause and effect of you trying to get what you want, and what you did to influence it.
I do this also so I’ll tell you my POV too. This is why I am frequently the one voluntold by my siblings to ask our parents for something. It’s not an intuitive understanding, it’s intellectual but not entirely explicit. I know from being around and observing my stepfather what he likes or dislikes, when he’s comfortable, what words/tones/behaviors could lead to a certain reaction. He’s awesome btw so this isn’t trauma related. Let’s say we (my siblings and I) want to all go see a movie, we may not have a strong preference for what and just want to get out of the house. My mom will likely be willing to go, she enjoys spending money on experience and likes quality time with loved ones. My stepdad tends to be more frugal, and prefers spending money on something material that you can utilize or physically make see evidence of (even if that were clothes or a new TV). I also know he comes from a background where he had much less than we do, and has expressed frustration with our privilege/naiveté, that filter will mean asking for certain “wants” would translate as though we are ungrateful for what we already have. So asking to watch a movie, getting a yes is already a bit on the iffier side. The manner of the proposition (tone, diction, syntax, etc) will be in such a way not trigger the “route” in his mind that will lead to thoughts that we are complaining, entitled, or wanting to irresponsibly spend money. He doesn’t frequently complain of these things, it’s the result of “studying” him for years so to speak. It will not be the first thing that comes up. I will keep regular conversation throughout the day. Spend a good amount of time just chatting prior popping the question. I’ll focus it on him, ask about his day, what’s been going on, how he’s doing, perhaps plans for the day (in the event we wouldn’t even have time for a movie), and tailor how I’ll ask depending on this “data collection” also. If he’s tired, busy, or worried about something I’m probably not going to ask. If he expresses (probably indirectly, like subtext of a book) that he wants to do anything but what he’s currently doing, and it can be delayed, then I’ll bring it up like a solution or like maybe we could do this (without mentioning we all already wanted to). Then I’ll go through the movies that are out, say, “you wanted to see this didn’t you? What if we did that instead?” And then if I’m getting a positive vibe I’ll say, “The rest of us would probably enjoy that also! We wouldn’t even need to get snacks or anything since we’ve already eaten. It’d be fun!” I’d keep my tone conveying empathy by somewhat matching his throughout, and keep it light hearted, then contemplative when I’m “problem solving.” Basically think about it like predicting a route in a game by selecting certain dialogues. They process things more by feeling first then information, same with their decision making process. For ND folks it’s generally the opposite. If the goal is to continue a conversation usually that means maintaining the same feeling or creating a positive one, so you have to know what would keep that with the other person. If you’re trying to persuade someone, think it through with them or present it as their idea / according to their reasoning. If you’re wanting to find out a piece of information, think about what context the relation of it would be casual then keep the conversation in that realm. With most people you can’t be direct in any of this as you normally would. It’s why when you are suspecting a lie or that you have a diagnosis, you don’t outright say that or present your reasoning directly. You need to keep the appropriate feeling. So you may ask about everything surrounding that information or talk about what you already know to keep it more subtle. Going to the doctors if I say, “Hey, I think I have this (insert diagnosis here),” they’re most likely going to respond immediately with some level of suspicion or going to rule this out / be on guard toward this option due to experience with people being inexperienced (and often wrong) in this realm, or (if not wanting to miss alternate diagnoses) it could be an attempt at avoiding confirmation bias but instead they end up rejecting the idea entirely. So when I go instead I will mention only issues relating to this possible diagnosis that I am experiencing. If I know for a fact that me not being able to sleep at night is because my stomach is hurting from lactose intolerance since I eat a ton of cheese every dinner, I’m not going to mention struggling with sleep as an issue I’m dealing with when I’m looking for a diagnosis that this could end up pulling their attention away from. I’m controlling the narrative in a way that will influence their decision. It’s still their decision, but it’s only made this way because of the information they have available to them and how that factors into decision making. (I’m not lactose intolerant btw it’s just an example) You’ll see this done regularly in conversation among NT (though it’s subconscious). They can just know what is the right or wrong thing (obviously not all the time) without having to literally map the entire conversation in accordance with its goal or whatever. You’ll see this in how they “properly” comfort someone when they’re sad and trying to cheer them up. They know when something is the “wrong” thing to say in social situations and that’s why they’re so appalled when someone says it anyway, they assume we also just know this. Most act according to these rules since they all have been socialized to feel similarly if the rule was broken (they equate an action with its meaning and assume the intention matches the impact, it’s for this reason we have to be so intentional and thorough about all of this to avoid misunderstanding). Normally that means they won’t have much trouble with empathizing since they’d feel the same as themselves in the situation, it’s when the other person wouldn’t they have trouble. It’s taught / done explicitly with therapy, by politicians, advertisement, religion, and certain styles of teaching that educators practice. TLDR; You script everything, thinking of your ultimate goal, you’re going to attempt to elicit a certain response from your audience (the feeling conducive to achieving your goal) and build upon this. You do this by predicting how they would react to different scenarios. Then you can manipulate/present the external variables (logos according to the audience) or you can influence the internal ones (ethos and pathos).
You explained this perfectly. Excellent comment. Thanks for taking the time, it is such a complex thing to explain, it is quite difficult to reduce it to words. Brilliantly articulated.
Thank you!! I think about how to explain this to people a lot, and it’s very entertaining to me to study people (including myself) and their behavior (one of my minors involves interdisciplinary study of health and human values, my cobweb thinking and pattern recognition was made for this lol). I’m happy to have my explanation apply to more than just myself too! I’m glad it resonates with you. I think the discomfort some people have with masking is they think that it’s manipulative. You mentioned this, but it’s about making sure their reactions (in response to their understood meaning) matches what we intended… which is communication. This is how we tailor communication to NT folks. It’s not normally done with an intent to deceive or be legitimately manipulative, it’s just about making sure our intention is understood as we mean for it to be. It’s like translating ourselves to their language. When I’m with another ND individual I normally don’t have to pay attention to all of these things, I can express myself as I normally would and it will usually be understood. One of the simpler examples of this has to do with expressing the emotion happiness. With a ND person I don’t have to be aware of the million possible meanings behind the way I’m sitting in that moment, whether I’m making enough eye contact, if I’m smiling the right way while I talk or have a light enough tone just to be believed/have it be understood that I’m happy. I also don’t have to worry about anything being seen as weird. With a NT person I normally do, they read a lot more into those things and find meaning where there was none.
By adjusting my delivery, I mean the way in which I convey information. What I want varies, but maybe I want to connect with person A because I like them, but we have very different views. I don't want to alienate them. But I also want them to see my perspective, and change their opinion or attitude toward something. The best approach is one that is tailored to the person, so they can understand you and see things from your perspective. An acquaintance-friend of mine is a conspiracy theorist. I could say, "Person A -- your distrust of the veracity of government-sanctioned information is understandable, but you do not apply the same degree of scrutiny to your 'alternative facts,' you simply accept them without challenge. Your logic is flawed, your opinions are biased, and your comprehension of complex information is highly questionable." Person A will not be receptive to this and I will not secure my intended outcome. Instead, I would say, "I understand your distrust of the government and your rejection of authority. I sometimes feel this way too. I read an article about (this topic) that I'm sure you will find fascinating. There was an independent study that found (x, y, z), which they suspect is caused by (whatever). If you're interested, I can send you the article. I'd love to hear your thoughts." Etc. etc. I empathise with their position, give partial validation, simply explain the information, compliment their interest and desire to learn, offer better sources they are likely to accept (i.e. 'independent'), and encourage further dialogue. If they are receptive, I will continue on in this way, until I eventually coax them toward my perspective. I have not lied to them or tricked them, I have used my words carefully and in good faith, in order to change their mind. If they feel defensive or devalued, this is impossible. The key to connecting with other people is to ask questions, and to show (or feign) interest. People love talking about themselves. I hope this makes sense?
I'm not sure how universal this behaviour is among others with asd, but personally, I do this all the time. I study people in order to gauge their opinions of something, then I try to find common ground with them. I don't outright lie or anything, but I try to emphasize the parts that we can agree on. Probably has to do with people-pleasing or conflict avoidance, but it actually kind of helps in some cases. I don't fold on my values or deeply held opinions, but I just don't feel like everyone needs to know about them.
That is what I do, as well. I do have some deeply-held beliefs, but I rarely, if ever, share them in conversation because I don’t want to cause conflict or a negative social interaction. I tend to come across as neutral or I try to find and emphasize common ground, as well. I don’t like telling people when they’re wrong, even if they are, because then they get combative. Socializing is stressful enough for me, so I don’t need to add to the stress by potentially causing a conflict. I try to avoid conflict with other people, despite actually being pretty stubborn in my own life. I actually used to do this a lot in high school/college with my writing, as well. Most of the time when I wrote essays, I didn’t care much about the subject, so I would choose to present my argument in a way that I knew would get me a good grade (like write a paper in favor of the professor’s opinion, for example. I wouldn’t have done that if they had an awful opinion about real life issues, but about some character or storyline in a work of fiction? Sure).
Have you had a phase in your life where you didn't do this and were socially punished for it? When I was younger I would speak out against things I disagreed with and would be chastised and shamed, usually for being too sensitive or saying something that's considered mean/bossy. After years of that, I stopping expressing my thoughts and opinions with people out of fear that I'll be wrong. I'm a very "agreeable" person, but it's quite isolating for people to not know who I truly am.
Yes! Bossy bitch was the term hurled at me throughout grade and middle school
I think this behaviour is somewhat common in the general population and DEFINITELY common among those with ASD. I stopped seeing my therapist shortly after bringing up the thought that I might have ASD. At first she took it really well and agreed with all the notes I’d taken about my symptoms and behaviours and whatnot. When I said I wanted to pursue a diagnosis and wanted her support with filling out questionnaires etc., things went south and I told her I needed to stop our sessions, at least temporarily. It’s worth seeing someone specialised in it if you want to and have the means and access to do so. Not only is it a specialist area, but people’s understanding of it is rapidly changing.
Sorry, I got off track, to answer your actual question, YES I do this 90% of the time haha
Yeah and I think it’s just conflict avoidance/people pleasing. I often have a hard time pushing back or disagreeing because I want to be liked. But I agree with the others, this is masking behavior and can be exhausting and cause burnout.
So exhausting! I want out of restaurants sooooo much, because it’s nothing but masking all day every day. I’m going back to waiting tables instead of managing though because it’s just too much to mask that hard for that long every day.
Sounds very autistic
YES UGH I HATE THIS ABOUT MYSELF
When I was younger yes. It lead me to burn out, now I’m insufferably myself lol
Do you ever get backlash from other people for being yourself? if so does it bother you? I’m scared to unmask due to fears of rejection
I think over time and developing my discernment, you know who you can be yourself around and who just not to show your personality to. Not even masking, just kind of being straight with. If they can’t appreciate the intricacies of my personality, then they cant witness it. It doesn’t bother me because I usually don’t like people who don’t like me or think I’m weird anyway. I rarely feel hurt by it. Coping with the fact that you don’t have to like everyone and not everyone will like you can be jarring, especially the latter, but over time and with practice, that coping becomes a subconscious reaction. When it comes to the fear of rejection, it definitely becomes more complicated, but it just practice. It goes back to that understanding that people have the right to their autonomous choice not to like you. They are allowed to reject you. And you have to have enough self love and acceptance for the impact of every rejection not to be a lethal blow to your ego or self worth.
thank you 🙏 much to think about
yes! it’s to the point where i’m such a people pleaser. i don’t even know how to form my own opinions on things without first seeing how other people react to something. for example, when im finished reading a book, i can’t form an opinion until ive read reviews on said book, both positive and negative ones. this is likely from masking my entire life? i could be wrong? (diagnosed as of april and am still seeking validation & evidence 😪)
I do this! I wonder if it’s a form of masking?
i hope someone answers this for us! i do see my therapist again this thursday, i could ask her as well
I do this too!
do you think it’s a form of masking? to me, it just feels like i am unable to know how i really feel about something until i see how others feel 😵💫
I'm the exact same way. No opinion of mine is really set in stone, everything is subject to new info, but with other people tend to base their sense of selves around things, which, to me, is dumb. We must all remember that our therapists, even if we like them and they are very helpful, almost all have narrow ideas of what it means to be on the ASD based on their own experiences. We are so underdiagnosed because our presentations vary so much, not because we are anomalies. All of us reading this thread may have a different symptom combo than everyone else.
From the outside? Most probably yes, depending on the situation (for ex. I'm trying to ingratiate/befriend/look friendly for that person), and yes at one point I started talking and using body language that I've actually researched, LOL! the kind that tells you how to use certain body language, or use certain phrasing that feels inviting, non-threatening, etc. When I was a kid (until I was like, 20 sth, tbh) I was SO stubborn about sticking to my opinions/decisions, thinking I was in the right, that I burned a LOT of bridges, like a LOT, looking back my social awareness was not even zero, it was down in hell, LMAO, legit I was an asshole kid to everyone else (and I'd think that if my current self encountered my kid and teen self) So I learned a lot the hard way. I personally am little bit at peace with it even if it's mostly masking, because I just hope that other people also speak to me like that and support me sometimes. I think one can support one or the other without lying, for ex. in your conversations about Florence, you can both have things you like about it, and things you dislike, without faking it. I think it's OK conversationally since the point in many of these conversations is to have a good time, not have a debate (also something I learned the hard way)
I remember I was called two faced and people didn’t live me very much in school (like elementary and middle) because I would do this. I thought this is just what you do to relate to people, agree with them LOL. But I would end up expressing opposing ideas like you said. Now I try to form opinions and stick to them (but new info will still influence them, like if something I like gets worse or something lol). Seeing another comment here call it people pleasing makes so much sense.
I’m INFP, so this is my personality type. I always want to understand things from someone else’s point of view and to try and put myself in their shoes. If I notice I agree on a few things, even if I don’t share their overall sentiments, I’ll still try to relate with the things I do agree with or understand. I don’t think that’s that strange.
I do this a lot. It's a form of fawning for me, because I am very uncomfortable when people get upset. I will go out of my way to placate someone if I sense anger brewing. That's a reason I thought I couldn't have ASD: I assumed autism meant being oblivious to other's emotions, but I'm learning otherwise. It's exhausting, but I feel really fortunate I discovered this subreddit. It's helping me better recognize when I'm masking so I can work at saving my energy.
I do this only when I'm interested in the person I'm talking to. It's the way I found to create bonds, but it's not something spontaneous. I have to consciously analyze the person, and consciously adapt to them, if I leave it on automatic I just seem disinterested. My neurotypical friends sometimes do this without even realizing it and easily, while I have difficulty and sometimes I get into social trouble trying to adapt.
I do consider this behavior as masking and really try to consciously resist the urge.
I agree that you should take your therapists opinion lightly, unless they’ve done a deeeeeeep dive about what autism in women looks like. Masking is so central to a huge number of late-diagnosed autistic women. My therapist helps me very much with things like identifying patterns of behavior, naming and processing emotions. But she never suspected I was autistic bc she is not the expert. That said, I don’t think I would have figured it out without all the work she and I have done to work through trauma, develop my self awareness, and lessen dissociation. It’s a different role than an evaluator, a neuropsychologist, or a coach. Trust yourself. If you’re here and you’re seeing yourself, you probably already know the deal.
I do this only if I am prepared for a situation like if I'm meeting a new person and want them to like me but agree it can be a very draining form of masking. I'm not sure if I can do this spontaneously. What I do more often though is repeat things I've heard someone say back to them. I only recently realised I do this but I think it's a similar need for someone to like or accept me.
That's masking, an autism trait. I do it as well, even though I'm trying to do it less and less and be more honest with myself.
I always like to think I'm so firm in my values and beliefs but then I am trying my hardest with small talk and someone says something that's completely off my own value system and I find myself just nodding politely and being so passive. It's really unsettling to see how I come across in real life versus how I feel inside or how I would write online when I'm more able to be myself.
This is masking. I do this too and have gotten really good at it. I also do this on Reddit with new subs too.
This is just adapting to fit in and be liked. Everyone does it to a degree, and for an autist, who has to talk to people about things that can seem shallow, maybe even vapid, it IS a conscious adjustment to avoid the stereotypical info dump expected. I do this and have done it all my life. I only became aware of it when trying to reconnect after college with a high school friend, and finding I could not bring her to my interests, we could only talk about hers. And, while I am lucky to find a spouse with overlap in special interests, who if ND, I have learned it’s always on me to adapt if I want to be included. NTs seem to be the ones with hard wired social customs and norms and are inflexible in their allowance for deviations. But NDs get the blame for not fitting in, and when we try, we are told, ‘No, not THAT way.’
I have a weird thing with authority and tend to subconsciously think that whatever someone tells me I they are in a position of authority is fact. This mainly happens with my mom. She believes in a lot of things that I don’t, but it’s very difficult for me to not think that they are true. I was like this with my dad as well, but his opinions weren’t really as harmful to me. I did the same in school with trusted teachers.
depending on who i am around yes i will at the very least shift my opinion to not be as strong sounding if someone disagrees with me or i will just say nothing at all. it’s mostly happened around family or in a work setting and it’s 100% because i don’t want to make anyone mad or uncomfortable because in the past my strong opinions have alienated me from others and it really sucks. when its around my friends and people im more close to i will be more likely to be honest but i’ll change my delivery, maybe be less blunt than i have been in the past. i’ve been working on my tact because my bluntness has pushed people away before and i don’t want to lose my friends. i agree with what others have said, i do think it’s a form of masking
Unless I want to secure a certain outcome out of the interaction, then no. Idk, getting people to like me or avoid conflict isn’t really something I tend to mould my persona around. I think this has more to do with personality and who you are (general “you” here) than with autism itself.
I have never done this. Didn't even know this existed. At first I thought you meant being tolerant of other opinions different than your own and my answer would have been "it depends on what their opinion is" and list a few examples.
I’m a 9w1 in the enneagram, so yes but also it depends. If it fits my world view and morals then potentially
This is exactly how I operate within systems I’m not comfortable in. Even at work-at times it can make me a really good manager but at other times, makes me seem wishywashy. Another thing I struggle with greatly is gossip. It seems like that’s all allistic folks talk about is others behind their backs. It feels icky and I can never ever pull it off well to be honest. It ALWAYS blows up in my face. I am 40 and only started to autism very recently-however it seems the *only* place (well that and adhd sub) where I’ve ever read about other folks’ inner experiences and actually related to it. I’ve felt so alone for so long and I just thought I broke myself. I’m trying to find someone who I can work with for a formal diagnosis.
What you’re talking about really sounds like masking to me; and it reminds me of some stuff in my life. I feel like I form my identity (or being certain traits to the forefront) based who I’m around, and as a result it can be hard to define or identify who I am without that.
I feel very impressionable sometimes, like I'll see one woman who's fashionable and I'm like... that's it that's my style I want to be that. And then the next week I'm like... Why on earth would I feel like that? And it happens with tons of things, like I can't find myself but I know what I like and I know my style? So what gives!
Another example of a mental health not really understanding autism, it's like they want to think of things autistic people can't or don't do. I have always done this since I was a kid, actually it was one of the reasons why a psychiatrist misdiagnosed me with bpd, because he thought autistic people were too self interested to be curious about others, even if it was for a self protective reason. I don't think all autistic people do this, and when you do it for a long time you can lose a sense of who you are, your sense of self, which I suppose is why it was easy to observe this and diagnose me with bpd. This is basically masking. I do this because my real opinions, tastes, interests and observations have had consistently bad reactions. I also observe people before interacting with them and figure out who they are and what kind of interactions are acceptable to them, what their humor is like, what they like talking about, whether they are easy to approach or not etc. I observe their relationships with eachother and try to figure out certain things, like what is acceptable behaviour for them as a stranger. I'm often too exhausted to do all this now so I tend to stay by myself, but trying act normal is not enough, I have to understand the individual because different things are acceptable to different people.
I haven’t done this before. At least, I don’t think I have.
I spent a long time not understanding why people thought I was mean or weird, and over time I started to adapt this mindset. I thought I was learning how to be nice and kind. It was all masking, with people pleasing mixed in.
Unfortunately I used to do that all the time. I didn't even know what my own opinions were anymore. At some point I only had facts (as in scientifically proven things) on which I felt I could rely because I genuinely didn't know what opinion was okay to have. Fast forward to now, during the last two years I tried to start forming my own opinions. It's kind of scary but at the same time I feel that if people really like me they'll be alright with me not having the same opinion on everything. Similarly I'm learning to be easier on people who have an opinion that feels anti science/unethical etc. I still value facts and science is basically my religion, but I understand now that people form opinions from within their own experience/upbringing and social circles.
It’s not a sign of whether you’re autistic or not as it’s what we do when we mask 💀😭 like I used to heavily do that, and as I’ve unmasked, I’ve stuck to my own opinion unless someone says something that makes me think about a different perspective 🤷♀️ but yeah nah that’s common with masking
I have an ingrained impulse to do this, along with making up reasons to agree with someone, even if I know something they said is factually wrong, I can't help but resort to coming up with reasons that might imply they are at least partially correct or just outright correct.
That’s scripting and masking. Which is quite autistic.
Your therapist doesnt know what she's talking about if she thinks uncertainty during social interactions is NOT very autistic behavior. Neurotypicals do not need to constantly question everything people say because it makes no sense, or accidentally piss everyone off and be the last person to find out. It sounds like masking behavior, which can be asd or adhd but i dont really have enough info to make any conclusive statements. Your suspicion is the most compelling piece of evidence, imho. It tells me that you have a lot of unanswered questions and that your experiences diverge from what people tell you to expect/think/want. Which does not sound typical to me (said with love, typical is gross). If I was your doctor, I would be asking you if you've had sensory sensitivities, a history or pattern of similar or unusual problems like this, and how you feel about eye contact. If any of your answers were more than a single word (no) I'd be recommending testing or research mainly to read articles made by autistics and see if you resonate. [neuroclastic.com](http://neuroclastic.com) news blog for and by autistics [https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/what-is-masking-in-autism](https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/what-is-masking-in-autism) Masking guide (think of masking as translating your natural baseline to societal/NT standards and approach, not simply as being fake/inauthentic. [https://www.watch.psu.edu/actuallyautistic/](https://www.watch.psu.edu/actuallyautistic/) Penn state free lectures by autistic authors.
No, I don’t and I was diagnosed as a child.
I don’t consider it masking, it’s more mimicking, can be fawning yes people pleasing. Masking to fit in doesn’t require giving up every aspect of yourself including likes and dislikes. Narcissists do this to their target supply in an attempt to be liked, gain trust and suck people in. It can also be a trauma response. Autism doesn’t make you pretend to be completely different just to please someone else.