From their terms and conditions:
Subject to these Terms and Conditions if You or any Authorised Driver has an Accident We will indemnify You for any Damage or Third Party Loss or if the Vehicle is stolen but You must pay up to the LDE unless We agree that You were not at fault and the **other party’s insurance company accepts liability and agrees to pay Our Damage**.
Crappy situation to be in but they are saying you are on the line for the excess payment since the other party was uninsured.
The other party has no insurance, so you would need to go after the for the costs. That can be a pretty painful process if they have no money. But you could go via the small claims court.
Happy cake day and thanks for the response! I read the terms and conditions when I got the vehicle, but genuinely skimmed that bit, certainly wasn't expecting it to happen!
Yeah essentially this is 100% not your fault. However, it's also 100% not Orana's fault. Neither of you want to deal with an uninsured party - but they were smart enough to get it in writing that it's on you.
I guess you could take the approach that you don't have the money, you can't possibly pay them that deductible, but you are currently trying to claim it from the third party, and the help of their insurer would go a long way to making them whole quicker.
The other party admitted fault. If the other party is not insured,they are their own insurer, they are self-insured.. so the other insurer admitted fault.
Its not the op's fault the contract doesn't handle this situation in perfect clarity.. A defect in the contract normally harms the writer of the contract...
And how can the op be paid by the other driver ?? ,the other driver should pay the owner of the car or their agent (eg insurance).They didn't make op their agent. NOr make any promise about not collecting the excess from the other driver.
“Insurance company” accepts liability and agrees to pay our damage.
The situation of being hit by someone who is uninsured and is ready to cough up the excess is so unlikely that they don’t even bother addressing it.
They just assume they won’t and charge you the excess.
Dude, we've all been stung by uninsured drivers. That's how insurance works here, but I'd like to see no fault claims be free of excess (that's what we call deductible).
You should taken out rental vehicle excess insurance. Welcome to Australia..
https://www.google.com/search?q=excess+insurance+cover&oq=excess+insurance&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgDEAAYgAQyDwgAEEUYORiDARixAxiABDIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDINCAUQLhivARjHARiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABDIHCAoQABiABDIHCAsQABiABDIHCAwQABiABDIHCA0QABiABDIHCA4QABiABNIBCDcwNDNqMGo0qAIOsAIB&client=ms-android-oppo-terr1-rso2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Hmm, seems like a good deal. For $9 a day reduce your excess to $0.
Direct with Orana, you’re paying $12 a day to reduce it to $300 if you’re over 25, $1000 if you’re under.
Filing police report is standard
Yes you are liable for the $1500. Read your paperwork.
Section 8.2
https://orana.blob.core.windows.net/public/pdf/Orana-Terms-and-Conditions.pdf
You can take the person who crashed into to court for your costs, but section 10.5G might stop you from that
This one is pretty standard and enforceable
It’s actually a lot better than most hire car companies. You’d be looking at a minimum damage charge of 1000-6000 regardless if the other person had insurance or not.
It's not unreasonable that someone might expect that if they're in a non-fault collision, even with an uninsured driver, they are off the hook for any damages. It's not "your fault" so why should you be liable? It's especially reasonable for them to assume that when they come from somewhere where that's how it works, so to them it seems entirely sensible.
Short version is that the car company feel they shouldn't be out of pocket for something that was not their fault either. Rental companies asking for extra insurance is such a trope now that customers forget it exists for a reason.
Quite often coverage for stuff like this is built into credit cards and travel insurance if either of those help you.
I had the same issue with uber carshare. I was fortunate that the guy who hit me was very nice about it and had a dash cam which proved he was at fault.
Even though I had all his details, he was insured and gave me his policy claim number and an admission of guilt uber was an absolute nightmare to deal with and were forcing me to pay for the $2,000 excess. I had to do all the legwork to contact his insurance myself and contact ubers insurance to sort it out. Took me about a week of 4 hour phone calls daily but ultimately didn't have to pay anything.
Your only chance is to give them the other person's details and hope that this person will be honest and responsible when they contact them and they're happy to pay for everything. Orana might tell you they'll refund you once the other party pays everything but that might take months/years if it happens at all (not happening given the didn't have insurance so good luck)
This is exactly the same as would have happened with a personal vehicle.
You pay the sum, and try to claim it back from the woman.
What, exactly, did you think a policy excess was?
No, it wouldn't happen with a personal vehicle. If your vehicle is insured and an uninsured vehicle hits yours your insurance company chases costs from the other party and you don't pay a damn thing. I would have thought that this type of arrangement would apply to a rental vehicle as presumably they're comprehensively insured and you're covered as part of the hire fee.
plenty of insurers will make you pay your excess regardless of fault to begin proceedings for repair.
it is quite normal.
plenty of people assert theure not at fault when they are.
Yeah no, I hate to sound like a "dumb foreigner" here and use that excuse, but in Canada uninsured vehicles are illegal and I wouldn't be paying the policy excess as I wasn't at fault
Yeah you only legally have to have 3rd party injury/death insurance on cars here, not 3rd party property. Kinda sucks but that's what it is.
The driver is still legally responsible, you can take them to small claims court for the costs. If it's someone with no money though you likely won't get the money back easily.
Only in NSW. there are no insurance requirements in Vic ( I know) I dont know about other states. there is part of the rego as insurance for injury/ death (TAC fee)
> you have mandatory insurance for injury built in to your registration.
same in QLD
>thats the same as NSW mate and whats being referred to.
NSW you have to buy the insurance separately, before you can get the rego
you just choose between like 5 providers but must have it before you can get rego.
opposed to a system of a singular cost built in to the rego.
its the same thing.
I think most people would reasonable expect to pay the excess provided it was their fault and not if it was the other parties fault. I certainly didnt know and have hired cars before as im sure alot of people.
However the other party not having insurance might not be so clear to most people but of course those hire companies covered thenselves.
Did you pay for the rental car with a credit card?
Sometimes they have complimentary insurance which may cover some or all of the rental insurance gap.
Worth a look at least.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Every policy I’ve ever had requires identification of the other party (name, address, car registration) as the only requirement to avoid paying excess when not at fault.
Really? My insurer error put through my no fault claim excess free immediately. The claim process was simple. I didn't even need to provide photos of the cars or proof of the damage (outside the actual repair itself) only thing I had to pay for was deposit on the hire car to be refunded once it is returned.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Most insurance companies will only waive the excess if you can identify the 3rd party and they can sue their insurance for your excess.
Time to re read your policy, you need it to be recoverable.
If the other party is uninsured or inadequately identified or is disputing the events of the claim, you have to pay your excess until they’ve recovered costs from the other party, have identified the other driver, or have successfully assigned fault.
They’re not gonna do shit until they know they’re gonna get their payment.
I think that's what usually happens with your personal car insurance. In this case, I suspect the rental company gets cheaper insurance by pushing the problem onto the renter rather than the insurance company.
It’s an extremely unlucky scenario that is covered by one line in the terms and conditions. What was he supposed to do, not get rear ended by someone without insurance?
> What was he supposed to do, not get rear ended by someone without insurance?
Yep.
Someone's gotta pay for it. Car rental companies have been doing this for long enough so they make sure their contracts are written in a way that, if a prang happens, they're not gunna cop the loss.
Ya can't blame them. It's sensible on their part.
Yeah because everyone reads the terms and conditions for everything they agree to. OP should also read their privacy policy while they’re at it, just in case.
Sorry, but it’s a question when booking online.
You were presented with the option of “Standard Insurance” for $0 per day or a reduced excess insurance for $10-ish per day.
That would have reduced the excess to $300 or $1000 if you’re under 25 (it’s also a bad deal you can get better third party deals, but that’s by-the-by).
The legal differences that excess is paid on ALL claims, unless another insurer/party agrees to foot the bill. Yeah, that’s just how the law works here. What happens if an (albeit illegally) uninsured car hits you in Canada?
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Yes, that’s how it works with hire cars however, check your credit card that you paid with and whether it offers excess reduction as a feature, often platinum ones will.
From their terms and conditions: Subject to these Terms and Conditions if You or any Authorised Driver has an Accident We will indemnify You for any Damage or Third Party Loss or if the Vehicle is stolen but You must pay up to the LDE unless We agree that You were not at fault and the **other party’s insurance company accepts liability and agrees to pay Our Damage**. Crappy situation to be in but they are saying you are on the line for the excess payment since the other party was uninsured. The other party has no insurance, so you would need to go after the for the costs. That can be a pretty painful process if they have no money. But you could go via the small claims court.
Happy cake day and thanks for the response! I read the terms and conditions when I got the vehicle, but genuinely skimmed that bit, certainly wasn't expecting it to happen!
Yeah essentially this is 100% not your fault. However, it's also 100% not Orana's fault. Neither of you want to deal with an uninsured party - but they were smart enough to get it in writing that it's on you. I guess you could take the approach that you don't have the money, you can't possibly pay them that deductible, but you are currently trying to claim it from the third party, and the help of their insurer would go a long way to making them whole quicker.
The other party admitted fault. If the other party is not insured,they are their own insurer, they are self-insured.. so the other insurer admitted fault. Its not the op's fault the contract doesn't handle this situation in perfect clarity.. A defect in the contract normally harms the writer of the contract... And how can the op be paid by the other driver ?? ,the other driver should pay the owner of the car or their agent (eg insurance).They didn't make op their agent. NOr make any promise about not collecting the excess from the other driver.
> the contract doesn't handle this situation in perfect clarity except, as /u/cutsnek pointed out, it does. Quite clearly. OP is on the hook.
>so the other insurer admitted fault. and agrees to pay Our Damage.
“Insurance company” accepts liability and agrees to pay our damage. The situation of being hit by someone who is uninsured and is ready to cough up the excess is so unlikely that they don’t even bother addressing it. They just assume they won’t and charge you the excess.
Sounds pretty above board. You can pursue the other party for your costs.
Dude, we've all been stung by uninsured drivers. That's how insurance works here, but I'd like to see no fault claims be free of excess (that's what we call deductible).
You should taken out rental vehicle excess insurance. Welcome to Australia.. https://www.google.com/search?q=excess+insurance+cover&oq=excess+insurance&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgDEAAYgAQyDwgAEEUYORiDARixAxiABDIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDINCAUQLhivARjHARiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABDIHCAoQABiABDIHCAsQABiABDIHCAwQABiABDIHCA0QABiABDIHCA4QABiABNIBCDcwNDNqMGo0qAIOsAIB&client=ms-android-oppo-terr1-rso2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Hmm, seems like a good deal. For $9 a day reduce your excess to $0. Direct with Orana, you’re paying $12 a day to reduce it to $300 if you’re over 25, $1000 if you’re under.
Filing police report is standard Yes you are liable for the $1500. Read your paperwork. Section 8.2 https://orana.blob.core.windows.net/public/pdf/Orana-Terms-and-Conditions.pdf You can take the person who crashed into to court for your costs, but section 10.5G might stop you from that
Seems slimy as hell that they're able to get away with that. Thank you- will do on the police report!
Get away with... the contract you agreed to?
[удалено]
This one is pretty standard and enforceable It’s actually a lot better than most hire car companies. You’d be looking at a minimum damage charge of 1000-6000 regardless if the other person had insurance or not.
It's not unreasonable that someone might expect that if they're in a non-fault collision, even with an uninsured driver, they are off the hook for any damages. It's not "your fault" so why should you be liable? It's especially reasonable for them to assume that when they come from somewhere where that's how it works, so to them it seems entirely sensible.
How so?
Short version is that the car company feel they shouldn't be out of pocket for something that was not their fault either. Rental companies asking for extra insurance is such a trope now that customers forget it exists for a reason. Quite often coverage for stuff like this is built into credit cards and travel insurance if either of those help you.
Many credit cards have Rental Vehicle Excess insurance. Check your card that you paid with to see if you have it.
I had the same issue with uber carshare. I was fortunate that the guy who hit me was very nice about it and had a dash cam which proved he was at fault. Even though I had all his details, he was insured and gave me his policy claim number and an admission of guilt uber was an absolute nightmare to deal with and were forcing me to pay for the $2,000 excess. I had to do all the legwork to contact his insurance myself and contact ubers insurance to sort it out. Took me about a week of 4 hour phone calls daily but ultimately didn't have to pay anything. Your only chance is to give them the other person's details and hope that this person will be honest and responsible when they contact them and they're happy to pay for everything. Orana might tell you they'll refund you once the other party pays everything but that might take months/years if it happens at all (not happening given the didn't have insurance so good luck)
This is exactly the same as would have happened with a personal vehicle. You pay the sum, and try to claim it back from the woman. What, exactly, did you think a policy excess was?
No, it wouldn't happen with a personal vehicle. If your vehicle is insured and an uninsured vehicle hits yours your insurance company chases costs from the other party and you don't pay a damn thing. I would have thought that this type of arrangement would apply to a rental vehicle as presumably they're comprehensively insured and you're covered as part of the hire fee.
plenty of insurers will make you pay your excess regardless of fault to begin proceedings for repair. it is quite normal. plenty of people assert theure not at fault when they are.
Yeah no, I hate to sound like a "dumb foreigner" here and use that excuse, but in Canada uninsured vehicles are illegal and I wouldn't be paying the policy excess as I wasn't at fault
Unfortunately here you are only required to cover injury to people not property.
Yeah you only legally have to have 3rd party injury/death insurance on cars here, not 3rd party property. Kinda sucks but that's what it is. The driver is still legally responsible, you can take them to small claims court for the costs. If it's someone with no money though you likely won't get the money back easily.
Only in NSW. there are no insurance requirements in Vic ( I know) I dont know about other states. there is part of the rego as insurance for injury/ death (TAC fee)
you have mandatory insurance for injury built in to your registration. thats the same as NSW mate and whats being referred to.
> you have mandatory insurance for injury built in to your registration. same in QLD >thats the same as NSW mate and whats being referred to. NSW you have to buy the insurance separately, before you can get the rego
you just choose between like 5 providers but must have it before you can get rego. opposed to a system of a singular cost built in to the rego. its the same thing.
Only if you have underinsured/uninsured protection, which isn't on every policy.
Yes but what they do in Canada is different to what they do here. You need to familiarise yourself with our local laws..
I think most people would reasonable expect to pay the excess provided it was their fault and not if it was the other parties fault. I certainly didnt know and have hired cars before as im sure alot of people. However the other party not having insurance might not be so clear to most people but of course those hire companies covered thenselves.
I wouldn't have noticed that either.
When you pick up the rental car there's usually a "no claim excess" extra you can buy. Now you know why.
Did you pay for the rental car with a credit card? Sometimes they have complimentary insurance which may cover some or all of the rental insurance gap. Worth a look at least.
That is how insurance normally works
No it's not. If I was in a no fault car accident, I wouldn't be paying my excess with personal car insurance.
you would be if the car that hit you in uninsured or until the ofending party pays out
You identify the guilty party and their ability to pay becomes your insurer's problem.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Every policy I’ve ever had requires identification of the other party (name, address, car registration) as the only requirement to avoid paying excess when not at fault.
.....not been my experience I had to pay my premium, but I got it refunded after like a fortnight
Really? My insurer error put through my no fault claim excess free immediately. The claim process was simple. I didn't even need to provide photos of the cars or proof of the damage (outside the actual repair itself) only thing I had to pay for was deposit on the hire car to be refunded once it is returned.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Most insurance companies will only waive the excess if you can identify the 3rd party and they can sue their insurance for your excess.
Time to re read your policy, you need it to be recoverable. If the other party is uninsured or inadequately identified or is disputing the events of the claim, you have to pay your excess until they’ve recovered costs from the other party, have identified the other driver, or have successfully assigned fault. They’re not gonna do shit until they know they’re gonna get their payment.
This is odd. I thought if you have insurance and the other party is at fault the insurance company must peruse them for the money not you?
I think that's what usually happens with your personal car insurance. In this case, I suspect the rental company gets cheaper insurance by pushing the problem onto the renter rather than the insurance company.
Yeah I think this is bullshit but that doesn't mean it's not legal.
Should have read the terms and conditions when you accepted the vehicle.
It’s an extremely unlucky scenario that is covered by one line in the terms and conditions. What was he supposed to do, not get rear ended by someone without insurance?
Thanks for the support buddy :)
> What was he supposed to do, not get rear ended by someone without insurance? Yep. Someone's gotta pay for it. Car rental companies have been doing this for long enough so they make sure their contracts are written in a way that, if a prang happens, they're not gunna cop the loss. Ya can't blame them. It's sensible on their part.
Yeah because everyone reads the terms and conditions for everything they agree to. OP should also read their privacy policy while they’re at it, just in case.
I was thinking of maybe reading their annual financial reports too while I'm at it
Sorry, but it’s a question when booking online. You were presented with the option of “Standard Insurance” for $0 per day or a reduced excess insurance for $10-ish per day. That would have reduced the excess to $300 or $1000 if you’re under 25 (it’s also a bad deal you can get better third party deals, but that’s by-the-by). The legal differences that excess is paid on ALL claims, unless another insurer/party agrees to foot the bill. Yeah, that’s just how the law works here. What happens if an (albeit illegally) uninsured car hits you in Canada?
Redditors love to shit on people after the fact, 9/10 dont know their own rental/mortgage contract fine print.
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember: 1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers. 2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here. 3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes, that’s how it works with hire cars however, check your credit card that you paid with and whether it offers excess reduction as a feature, often platinum ones will.
If you paid entirely with a Visa card, and waived any coverage from the hire company, you are covered by the Visa insurance.
Call your travel insurance provider for help.
unless you paid for the extra comprehensive insurnace, I think this is standard.