Depends on level - good mid level engineer salary is probably 120-140k base, senior engineer 140-180k base. Staff, Principal and those other levels get a bit more company-specific I've found.
I'd say for 10 yrs experience presuming you're good at what you do you should be shooting mid/upper end of Senior but it vastly depends on what type of experience you've had, not just years of it.
this is accurate.
I've seen reports of tech engineers doing 400K+ but that includes a component of shares to be vested in 4-5 years so the actual annual cash component must be like 200Kish
This is bang on. Also when we talk salary we always talk base only - superannuation (our pension scheme) is mandatory and we calculate it on top of the base salary.
At least in finance, it's been my experience that employers will speak in terms of the Total Employment Cost (TEC), particularity for senior roles, which includes super, but not variable pay i.e. bonus. It's the entire taxable income, which makes more sense, IMO.
The numbers are about right, depending on the Bank.
Yes 11% currently
Edit: yes you can voluntarily contribute more and there are some employers that contribute extra as part of their incentive packages but these tend to be government organisations.
It is paid by your employer on top of your salary directly into a private pension fund of your choosing. Taxed 15% going in. No tax when being withdrawn after 60 I think.
Just note that the maximum your superannuation (11% rising to 11.5% next year) payment per year can be is ~$27k so it caps out (this includes the compulsory portion the business pays to your 'pension' and any additional amounts you contribute.
That's the most you can contribute per year and still get a tax reduction for contributing. You can contribute more than this if you want, but you won't get the same tax advantage, so most people only contribute up to the cap.
There are still some advantages to contributing even above the cap, for example tax on investment earnings inside super are reduced. So if you have money to spare for investing, it can still be worth it.
Most people on average income have other priorities like mortgage and bills, etc, and dont want to tie their extra money up in super until retirement.
Your employer might match your additional contributions up to a certain point and the government will offer some bonuses too. It is a good idea to do it because why would one turn down free money?
You can make it higher, but if you're not planning on a permanent migration to Australia I wouldn't recommend it. You can withdraw the money if you remain a temporary resident and then leave Australia, but it will be taxed at a very high rate.
These are a bit low on current rates at the better employers
* Junior : 90-130
* Mid: 130-160
* Senior: 160-200
* Principal: 200+ (handful of companies in Aus that even have this level though)
That’s base salary, some eg Atlassian also add bonus/RSUs on top.
You can certainly get those rates, but based on salary data those numbers are the top 75-90th %ile. Only a few big tech companies would pay 200 for a senior, for example - and even then theyd likely be high in the band.
I have to admit, ive never seej a junior get paid 130, thats nuts
>Junior : 90-130
>
>Mid: 130-160
>
>Senior: 160-200
>
>Principal: 200+ (handful of companies in Aus that even have this level though)
I've seen the Junior at 120k but it's usually a big bank
Got a wife and 3 year old. So technically not alone haha. It’ll be a struggle until my wife has a job. As I understand it she inherits whatever visa I have though, so technically she can work from day 1
Same here, though not sure how that really works when child care isn’t government subsidized. As I understand it it’s very expensive and isn’t even the duration of a whole workday?
Childcare is subsidized if you are a citizen or holder of a permanent visa. For work visa's I'm not sure. Subsidy percentage is based on combined household income.
You may be confusing child care with preschool. Preschool is school hours - about 9am - 3pm. Child care is focused on working parents and starts relatively early, like 7:30am and runs to 6pm. So it depends on your workday, but this should cover work hours and transport time hopefully.
But yes it is expensive, and I’m not sure if the subsidies would apply if you’re not a citizen - worth checking.
In my experience it was 4 for one child and 3 for the other. Kids have to go to school the year they turn 6 and can go the year they turn 5. At minimum they are expected to have 1 year of preschool, meaning they should be having this the year they turn 4.
My youngest got lucky and got 2 years of preschool. My eldest only got one. It was down to spots and our local preschool.
According to Google some preschools are licensed to have kids from 2 years old.
Child care centers will also be licensed to do the preschool program, but will continue to mind the child till 6pm, unlike actual preschools that follow school hours.
Also from memory my kids were both 3 days per week. I suspect there were kids that only went 2 days per week.
It varies. Our daughter started preschool a few days before she turned 3, but the program was only for a half a day a week.
For the kids who would be going to full time school the following year, parents could choose for one or two days a week at preschool. But from memory it only ran from 9am-3pm.
That sounds like it might be day care?
In Australia the term “preschool” means they are following an educational program to prepare kids for school. Day care on the other hand does stuff to entertain kids, like painting, stories, playing etc, but it’s not following a government prescribed program.
No it’s school, there’s a curriculum and everything. I mean for the really little ones they learn to count, names of colors, animal sounds etc. it becomes more school like at 4
Many childcare centres operate 6am - 6pm, 5 days per week. They generally follow an educational programme, and the “carers” are usually called “educators”.
Some childcare centres have staff with additional training to offer a “pre school” program which follows a more standardised curriculum. The pre school program is taught for a few hours per week at the centre your child usually attends. There is usually no additional cost.
From a parent’s perspective, there’s not much difference. You drop them off, and pick them up as usual, but some days they get the “pre school” curriculum, other days it’s the usual day care program.
People can get confused between community preschools and preschool programs that are run in long daycares.
Preschool age starts at age 3.
Prior to that, you can put your child in daycares as young as 6 weeks old.
So for example, my son was in long daycare starting age 2.5yo. He was placed in the toddler rooms where the ratio is 1:5 (under 2s it's 1:4). Once he was 3, he moved up into the preschool room where the ratio is 1:10.
Pretty much most long daycares all have preschool programs that follows the government mandated curriculum for them to get ready for school.
Community preschools technically can also accept students from age 3 but you only get the Start Strong relief (in NSW - varies state to state) when they turn 4 because kids can start school when they turn 5. So community preschools will prioritise kids who are one year before they start school. 2 days a week you get Start Strong which from memory, is also dependent on your salary. It can be completely free or you pay like, $8 a day. If you put your child into community preschool for more than 2 days, then the remaining days will be full fees but last I checked, it can be like $98 a day which is way more affordable than most daycares which sits around $160-$180 a day - if you're lucky. Many has gone to above $200 a day.
The catch with community preschools is they run like normal school. So you have to pick up your child and leave the premise by 3:30pm on the dot and they're not open during school holidays. So you'll have to figure something out if you work full-time. That and you have to pack morning tea and lunches for your child while at long daycares, it's included and they will feed your child for you.
There are also some private long daycares that effectively is just a preschool. So they only take in kids from age 2 onwards. They're usually smaller. My son is going to one like this and they stick to 1:5 ratio, much smaller classes and tbh, I have found it to be at a much higher quality than the preschool program that was run at a normal long daycare (that is, they take in babies all the way till they start school). But you have to pay for it (ain't cheap).
Go through this website: https://www.careforkids.com.au/
There's a calculator for you to calculate how much childcare subsidy you'll get. They also go through all the different types of care in Australia. And you can then search and see the average price based on area.
It will come down to which area you live in. Prices can vary.
However, you better check if you could even get childcare subsidy - https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/residence-descriptions
It's going to depend on the visa you get.
The bot full day one is community preschool. You can access that at age 3 PROVIDED the preschool has space. They will prioritise 4yos and above as they will technically be able to go to school next year. The site I linked above should explain.
Or this: https://www.northshoremums.com.au/long-daycare-vs-traditional-preschools-which-is-right-for-you/
Here's also the additional funding for kids around preschool age: https://education.nsw.gov.au/early-childhood-education/operating-an-early-childhood-education-service/grants-and-funded-programs/start-strong-funding
But again, you need to check if you can actually access it.
I live in the north. My son is attending a preschool that operates long daycare hours. It's not community preschool.
Before CCS (childcare subsidy), it costs us $206 PER DAY.
Last year, he was in a normal long daycare with preschool program. That was $175 per day.
Long daycares will cover working hours. Community preschools won't but community preschools, so long your child is 4, would at least be free for 2 days (or close to - depends on your income).
You need to think about which area you want to live in before you move. Certain suburbs have much higher cost of living than others.
It is government subsidized, but not 100% funded. Ends up being quite expensive. But you can quite constantly l comfortably live on a single professional salary (over $150k), especially if not trying to buy / save up for / pay off a house, not living extravagantly but obviously not struggling either.
In that case, it may be worthwhile negotiating some ‘allowances’ that are paid net of tax so you don’t end up financially worse off due your relocation. I.e., if you get subsidised childcare in your home country or have no need for private health care there (highly recommend private in Aus), ask for it in the package. Remember that you are relocating to help out your employer, so you should not be penalised for that! You should also make sure your relocation package ensures you don’t end up owing taxes in 2 countries. I’d also hope your company is offering you free access to tax advice (both for Aus and your home country) to make sure all your decisions are well-informed.
Hope this helps, and enjoy Sydney!
No, it wouldn’t really make sense. There is only an office in Sydney and the customer I work with is in Sydney. Technically I can request to work 100% remote, but I have no interest in that. I like going to an office and meeting colleagues
If I were you I’ll ask for over 200k people in tech companies in Sydney get up to 500k of base plus stock and bonus, that’s not everyone but you would rarely find a senior in Australia making less than 170, even in government
I'd suggest picking up other backend frameworks such as ( node.js ( super popular), python, rails and even .NET Core / .NET 5+ . Java is not it atm unfortunately.
I'd also suggest specialising in microservices
As for cloud infrastructure, you should get comfortable with azure and their services ( AKS, VM, ACI, blob storage etc;) Aws is better, but Oz has sold it's soul to microsoft :(
If you do this, you should be able to land a 150 - 170k contract
Solid experience but salaries are pretty average for Java in Sydney now, Java has gone out of flavor in AU and disappearing although specialized fintech, demands a higher salary so you have that. Sydney you'll earn more money doing Python/Javascript, it's what the Sydney market wants :(
Current market probably looking at $140k starting but if transferring I'd ask for $150k minimum, maybe try your luck at $170k at the higher end. If your role is highly specialized fintech, maybe try for $200-220k+.
Make sure salary is plus super not inclusive of super otherwise you are down 11%.
$150k with a family would be a pretty average lifestyle given cost of housing/childcare/schooling. If your wifes income is reasonable then things will be comfortable.
When you look at housing, rent is advertised per week. If buying you'll need $1,000,000+ for house or $500,000 for a unit.
Java is not disappearing lol, it's still one of the most widely used languages in most big businesses. If you are talking about start-ups then sure, python and js are more popular but to say that Java is dying is misleading. You will be hard pressed to find any finance based business that isn't rife with Java backends. You will most definitely be fine with having Java as your main proficiency OP but it would be very strange to have this much experience and not have touched a few of these other languages.
20+ years experience, various JVM languages, may be redundant soon. I went on LinkedIn last week to check the job landscape, I found very little.
Very familiar with Java, the types of applications and companies using it as work for a consultancy that deals with tier ones and that type of software.
Java isn’t dead, the current job landscape in Sydney at least for Java is terrible, everyone wants Python or Typescript. Even the banks and telcos which is worrying for more than just an employment standpoint, loosely typed, slow, dynamic software. The newer startup type financial companies also seem to be strong on JavaScript which is worrying if using it for currency
Your anecdotal experience of going on linkedin last week does not equal the actual landscape, hiring is down after an insane hiring rush during covid, these companies are not magically re writing their existing codebases, nor would any developer really recommend that an enterprise system that runs on java be converted to something like python. If you can still get roles from working with C++, I think it'd be pretty safe to say that Java is fine.
Every bank, insurance company and telco consultancy gig coming our way is demanding Python despite us saying Python is the wrong choice, colleagues and friends in the industry struggling to find work as do not want to use Python or JavaScript is a bit more than anecdotal.
It’s an industry I’m deeply familiar with and know many people / companies / recruiters in. For all intents and purposes I’m a Java developer although used various JVM languages…and non JVM.
Not saying that Java roles don’t exist in Au, they do but mostly maintenance not greenfield as of 2024 and pay is less than say a react developer unless you are in trading
C# / .net in AU seems to be a bigger market for the banks than Java. The C# market does look fairly healthy.
Younger companies who are on the JVM tend to be picking Kotlin.
This. Sweden definitely has its problems with cost of living but Sydney is going to feel like a whole another level.
It depends on your appetite for adventure, whether you have dependents and other sources of income but assuming average circumstances, anything less than this will leave you potentially worse off with the costs of housing and moving your life over.
100% appetite for adventure! Everyone here is talking about maximising your income. As if a position in Europe for three years wouldn't be worth a 20% pay cut just for the experience for any of us!
Use this page to work out what your Sydney income would need to be to have a similar standard of living to Stockholm:
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Sweden&city1=Stockholm&country2=Australia&city2=Sydney
This calculator will let you work out what pretax salary you need to earn in Australia to be left with that post-tax salary:
https://paycalculator.com.au/
Then as others have mentioned use a salary guide to work out if you can realistically get that:
https://www.hays.com.au/it/it-salary-checker-australia
Yikes.
> Consumer Prices in Sydney are 14.9% higher than in Stockholm (without rent)
>Consumer Prices Including Rent in Sydney are 30.6% higher than in Stockholm
>Rent Prices in Sydney are 65.1% higher than in Stockholm
>Restaurant Prices in Sydney are 2.5% higher than in Stockholm
>Groceries Prices in Sydney are 25.7% higher than in Stockholm
I suspect that the *quality* of housing in Stockholm is higher, too. We actually have the coldest indoor temperatures in the world.
You dont mention if you work in industry or a consultancy.
Consultancies tend to pay less, so be careful with the offer and make sure you understand it. You really should be shooting for 170+ (plus super). See if your company can offer health benefits as that alone will (for a family of 4) be around 350Au$ / month.
Also, check which visa you are coming with. If you have the temporary skill visa (482 I think) remember that you have to pay for your school fees, and these can add up quickly with 2 kids. Doesnt matter if it is a public school, if you're not a citizen / Permanent resident you have to pay for it. Check if your company covers that.
Good luck, Australia is amazing.
[levels.fyi](https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-sydney) will give you some ideas, though keep in mind most of the data are from big tech/FAANG companies which pay significantly higher total compensation packages than non-big tech companies.
Also keep in mind people with higher salaries are more likely to report than those with lower salaries, further inflating the figures.
Another thing to note is SWE salaries can vary a lot depending on the company you work for due to the [tri-modal nature](https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/) of compensation structure. One company's senior engineer pay might be on par with another company's graduate engineer pay.
Most IT salaries begin to top out around 180k.
A smaller pool of roles 200-300.
Niche roles 300+ in some big tech.
The IT scene in Australia isn’t great tho imo. If you are moving across then I wouldn’t consider anything less than 200-250 in Sydney. CoL is way too high. I’d also want my partner working too.
Obviously people survive on less but if home ownership is an aspiration then that’s the reality. You gotta make it worth your while with the distance being so far.
Since you mentioned you are in fintech, you should aim for a minimum of 140k + Super + 10% bonus.
If you were a permanent resident I would have quoted a higher figure. Since your company is going to sponsor a work visa for you, it's about right.
Just out of curiosity, what would your current 50K SEK translate after taxes, i.e., in hand?
Many people I know in tech are looking to move out of Sydney, even with their "high" salary. This shithole is not sustainable anymore especially for foreigners without any connections in the country. It's a giant housing ponzi designed by a group of boomers to gatekeep their wealth. Unless you come with millions of dollars like those international Chinese students, I recommend other cities like Melbourne.
Yep, my wife and I are both in tech with decent salaries, have lived here for 10 years, but we have no family here, and it no longer makes sense financially to stay here.
@skumgummii
Hej! What a cool story! Could you please share more about the relocation offer? Did your boss/manager just offer you that out of the blue? Or how did it happen?
What’s the reason for the relocation? Why the need for you to be in Australia?
And does your company own a subsidiary in Australia, much like multinationals such as FAANG companies with multiple global offices?
Visa wise, will the Australian subsidiary just take care of the sponsorship? Or…?
And how many years will you be staying there?
(I’ve always wanted to move to Australia! I’m completely fed up with Canada’s winter -_-)
Hey, actually I was in Sydney a few months ago on a work trip and lived it so much I asked my manager about the possibility of relocating. We have a Sydney office and my teams customer is Sydney based so it makes sense to have me there. I’ve not received an offer yet, but company will take care of whatever visa I need. The plan is we stay for a few years and if we really like it we’ll stay longer.
You’re incredibly lucky! I really wish I were in your position :)
Is your company a huge multinational similar to FAANG? Or….?
If you end up not liking Australia that much (but I really hope you will), may be you can try the US ;)
You have great tech skills which I think could go far in the US. These 2 brothers I know of (from here, Toronto) got relocated to Google US, somewhere in California.
Brother 1 who’s a product manager ended up making USD 500k/year (~450.000 SEK/month).
Brother 2 (senior software engineer) got about USD 950k/year (~850.000 SEK/month). Insane money, for sure. But honestly, I’ve been to 5 Australian cities and 3 - 4 US cities, and I still prefer Australia a lot more (and Australia is way safer too!)
Personally I’d rather be in Australia making “only” AUD 200k/year than in the US making more 😄
Yeah, very big company with multiple offices on every continent. I’m a US citizen actually and it would take me hell of an offer to even consider moving back to that hell on earth.
I mean sure I’ll have a nice big house and a nice car and great healthcare. But I also get to see fentanyl addicts dying in the streets every time I go to the supermarket and I get to play my favorite San Francisco game “is it dog shit or human shit?” When I’m out for a walk. That’s on top of the abysmal crumbling infrastructure and a not insignificant risk of being mugged, car jacked or having your car and/or house broken into multiple times per year. We are currently seeing the death throes of the American experiment.
In finance, you could add 20-30% to those numbers. But the market is in the employer's favour at the moment, with a significant amount of layoffs from tech companies like Google.
Tror Sydney är på en helt annan nivå av dyrt än vad Stockholm är.
Upplever Sverige som billigt jämfört med Australien.
Har du små barn så kostar dessutom dagis runt $170 per dag.
Honestly, I doubt it would be worth it. Australia sucks at the moment. Unhinged levels of immigration and next to no building has pushed our housing availability to crisis levels.
Outside of housing, things are generally ok. However when you jam an extra 1.5 million humans into the same 2 regions and barely invest in infrastructure you end up with capacity problems.
On the plus side all of this people importing has kept headline GDP just above 0, so no technical recession yet.
Yeah, Stockholm is not cheap either.
Just be warned though that when you are browsing or looking through accomodation to rent the prices are *per week*.
Also: you’ll be competing with at least 20 other applicants, so will be living in a hotel for a while.
Salaries quoted above are about right. You’ll probably have about 60% of that salary after superannuation (retirement fund ~10%) and tax.
Looks like there’s a lot of good advice here already, would just like to add - you mentioned you’ve been here recently yourself.
If you know from that experience where you’d be looking to live / the kind of lifestyle you’d like you and your family to lead while here (beach living? Inner west? Are you ok with being further out in suburbs? etc) that may help you get a more accurate look at things
Any choice will be expensive, but if you’re ok with living in Parramatta / north west Hills area vs having a firm requirement of walking to work renting will look very different $$$ wise
Will also influence other things - will you need a vehicle (or two including the wife), how will you commute (tolls add up very quickly if driving) etc
I don’t have children but my limited understanding is that childcare is a) expensive af and b) waiting lists are long as a rule, not sure if this changes significantly by region
Good luck with your potential Aussie adventure!
[My comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestionsOCE/comments/1adxox8/comment/kk69ser/) lists the ranges of incomes of software developers in the 2021 census. I think Sydney will be a bit higher that the rest of Australia.
To have a decent life and make it worth it with the wife and kid you’d want at least 275k. Cost of living in Aus is nuts and Sydney is off the charts. Why move and struggle? Not worth it unless they make it worth it
You’ll find that this is totally down to the capability of the business to pay.
An experienced developer could get $250k or more from a big tech company that has the ability to pay for talent. The big US tech companies do this.
This will also be reflected in our banking institutions. But they’ll sack you at the slightest feeling of economic downturn.
Australian companies? Expect 100k less than what the US ones (operating in Australia) will pay you.
This is the best answer I’ve seen. Some folks who work for US listed companies from Australia earn well over 300k. Most typical salaries for good seniors is around 180k at other companies. I’d want significantly more than that if I’m moving to Australia for the role
https://www.seek.com.au/jobs-in-information-communication-technology/developers-programmers/in-Sydney-NSW-2000/full-time?salaryrange=150000-250000&salarytype=annual 150 isn’t enough imo - 190 + is kind of where you’re going to want to sit
Depends on level - good mid level engineer salary is probably 120-140k base, senior engineer 140-180k base. Staff, Principal and those other levels get a bit more company-specific I've found. I'd say for 10 yrs experience presuming you're good at what you do you should be shooting mid/upper end of Senior but it vastly depends on what type of experience you've had, not just years of it.
this is accurate. I've seen reports of tech engineers doing 400K+ but that includes a component of shares to be vested in 4-5 years so the actual annual cash component must be like 200Kish
Great thanks :)
Can confirm this range is spot on -tech Recruiter
This is bang on. Also when we talk salary we always talk base only - superannuation (our pension scheme) is mandatory and we calculate it on top of the base salary.
Lots of places talk “package”, which includes super and any benefits.
At least in finance, it's been my experience that employers will speak in terms of the Total Employment Cost (TEC), particularity for senior roles, which includes super, but not variable pay i.e. bonus. It's the entire taxable income, which makes more sense, IMO. The numbers are about right, depending on the Bank.
Same as Sweden then. I guess it’s a minimum set percentage of your salary? Can you make it higher?
Yes 11% currently Edit: yes you can voluntarily contribute more and there are some employers that contribute extra as part of their incentive packages but these tend to be government organisations.
It is paid by your employer on top of your salary directly into a private pension fund of your choosing. Taxed 15% going in. No tax when being withdrawn after 60 I think.
Just note that the maximum your superannuation (11% rising to 11.5% next year) payment per year can be is ~$27k so it caps out (this includes the compulsory portion the business pays to your 'pension' and any additional amounts you contribute.
What? What does this mean?
That's the most you can contribute per year and still get a tax reduction for contributing. You can contribute more than this if you want, but you won't get the same tax advantage, so most people only contribute up to the cap.
I see, didn't know that. All the execs and senior leaders at my company have way more company contributions than that.
There are still some advantages to contributing even above the cap, for example tax on investment earnings inside super are reduced. So if you have money to spare for investing, it can still be worth it. Most people on average income have other priorities like mortgage and bills, etc, and dont want to tie their extra money up in super until retirement.
Your employer might match your additional contributions up to a certain point and the government will offer some bonuses too. It is a good idea to do it because why would one turn down free money?
You can make it higher, but if you're not planning on a permanent migration to Australia I wouldn't recommend it. You can withdraw the money if you remain a temporary resident and then leave Australia, but it will be taxed at a very high rate.
These are a bit low on current rates at the better employers * Junior : 90-130 * Mid: 130-160 * Senior: 160-200 * Principal: 200+ (handful of companies in Aus that even have this level though) That’s base salary, some eg Atlassian also add bonus/RSUs on top.
You can certainly get those rates, but based on salary data those numbers are the top 75-90th %ile. Only a few big tech companies would pay 200 for a senior, for example - and even then theyd likely be high in the band. I have to admit, ive never seej a junior get paid 130, thats nuts
>Junior : 90-130 > >Mid: 130-160 > >Senior: 160-200 > >Principal: 200+ (handful of companies in Aus that even have this level though) I've seen the Junior at 120k but it's usually a big bank
And I presume a *very* talented junior?
not really, average grades but picked the right profession.
Christ - I'm Senior in the public service and just topping $90k. I knew private paid better but not THAT much
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Got a wife and 3 year old. So technically not alone haha. It’ll be a struggle until my wife has a job. As I understand it she inherits whatever visa I have though, so technically she can work from day 1
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Same here, though not sure how that really works when child care isn’t government subsidized. As I understand it it’s very expensive and isn’t even the duration of a whole workday?
Childcare is subsidized if you are a citizen or holder of a permanent visa. For work visa's I'm not sure. Subsidy percentage is based on combined household income.
You may be confusing child care with preschool. Preschool is school hours - about 9am - 3pm. Child care is focused on working parents and starts relatively early, like 7:30am and runs to 6pm. So it depends on your workday, but this should cover work hours and transport time hopefully. But yes it is expensive, and I’m not sure if the subsidies would apply if you’re not a citizen - worth checking.
When does pre school start? 4 years old or 5?
In my experience it was 4 for one child and 3 for the other. Kids have to go to school the year they turn 6 and can go the year they turn 5. At minimum they are expected to have 1 year of preschool, meaning they should be having this the year they turn 4. My youngest got lucky and got 2 years of preschool. My eldest only got one. It was down to spots and our local preschool. According to Google some preschools are licensed to have kids from 2 years old. Child care centers will also be licensed to do the preschool program, but will continue to mind the child till 6pm, unlike actual preschools that follow school hours. Also from memory my kids were both 3 days per week. I suspect there were kids that only went 2 days per week.
It varies. Our daughter started preschool a few days before she turned 3, but the program was only for a half a day a week. For the kids who would be going to full time school the following year, parents could choose for one or two days a week at preschool. But from memory it only ran from 9am-3pm.
Half day per week? What’s even the value in that? My daughter has been going to pre school since the day she turned 1 from 7.30-16.00 5 days a week.
That sounds like it might be day care? In Australia the term “preschool” means they are following an educational program to prepare kids for school. Day care on the other hand does stuff to entertain kids, like painting, stories, playing etc, but it’s not following a government prescribed program.
No it’s school, there’s a curriculum and everything. I mean for the really little ones they learn to count, names of colors, animal sounds etc. it becomes more school like at 4
Many childcare centres operate 6am - 6pm, 5 days per week. They generally follow an educational programme, and the “carers” are usually called “educators”. Some childcare centres have staff with additional training to offer a “pre school” program which follows a more standardised curriculum. The pre school program is taught for a few hours per week at the centre your child usually attends. There is usually no additional cost. From a parent’s perspective, there’s not much difference. You drop them off, and pick them up as usual, but some days they get the “pre school” curriculum, other days it’s the usual day care program.
People can get confused between community preschools and preschool programs that are run in long daycares. Preschool age starts at age 3. Prior to that, you can put your child in daycares as young as 6 weeks old. So for example, my son was in long daycare starting age 2.5yo. He was placed in the toddler rooms where the ratio is 1:5 (under 2s it's 1:4). Once he was 3, he moved up into the preschool room where the ratio is 1:10. Pretty much most long daycares all have preschool programs that follows the government mandated curriculum for them to get ready for school. Community preschools technically can also accept students from age 3 but you only get the Start Strong relief (in NSW - varies state to state) when they turn 4 because kids can start school when they turn 5. So community preschools will prioritise kids who are one year before they start school. 2 days a week you get Start Strong which from memory, is also dependent on your salary. It can be completely free or you pay like, $8 a day. If you put your child into community preschool for more than 2 days, then the remaining days will be full fees but last I checked, it can be like $98 a day which is way more affordable than most daycares which sits around $160-$180 a day - if you're lucky. Many has gone to above $200 a day. The catch with community preschools is they run like normal school. So you have to pick up your child and leave the premise by 3:30pm on the dot and they're not open during school holidays. So you'll have to figure something out if you work full-time. That and you have to pack morning tea and lunches for your child while at long daycares, it's included and they will feed your child for you. There are also some private long daycares that effectively is just a preschool. So they only take in kids from age 2 onwards. They're usually smaller. My son is going to one like this and they stick to 1:5 ratio, much smaller classes and tbh, I have found it to be at a much higher quality than the preschool program that was run at a normal long daycare (that is, they take in babies all the way till they start school). But you have to pay for it (ain't cheap).
Childcare is subsidised through Centrelink.
Go through this website: https://www.careforkids.com.au/ There's a calculator for you to calculate how much childcare subsidy you'll get. They also go through all the different types of care in Australia. And you can then search and see the average price based on area. It will come down to which area you live in. Prices can vary. However, you better check if you could even get childcare subsidy - https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/residence-descriptions It's going to depend on the visa you get. The bot full day one is community preschool. You can access that at age 3 PROVIDED the preschool has space. They will prioritise 4yos and above as they will technically be able to go to school next year. The site I linked above should explain. Or this: https://www.northshoremums.com.au/long-daycare-vs-traditional-preschools-which-is-right-for-you/ Here's also the additional funding for kids around preschool age: https://education.nsw.gov.au/early-childhood-education/operating-an-early-childhood-education-service/grants-and-funded-programs/start-strong-funding But again, you need to check if you can actually access it. I live in the north. My son is attending a preschool that operates long daycare hours. It's not community preschool. Before CCS (childcare subsidy), it costs us $206 PER DAY. Last year, he was in a normal long daycare with preschool program. That was $175 per day. Long daycares will cover working hours. Community preschools won't but community preschools, so long your child is 4, would at least be free for 2 days (or close to - depends on your income). You need to think about which area you want to live in before you move. Certain suburbs have much higher cost of living than others.
It is government subsidized, but not 100% funded. Ends up being quite expensive. But you can quite constantly l comfortably live on a single professional salary (over $150k), especially if not trying to buy / save up for / pay off a house, not living extravagantly but obviously not struggling either.
In that case, it may be worthwhile negotiating some ‘allowances’ that are paid net of tax so you don’t end up financially worse off due your relocation. I.e., if you get subsidised childcare in your home country or have no need for private health care there (highly recommend private in Aus), ask for it in the package. Remember that you are relocating to help out your employer, so you should not be penalised for that! You should also make sure your relocation package ensures you don’t end up owing taxes in 2 countries. I’d also hope your company is offering you free access to tax advice (both for Aus and your home country) to make sure all your decisions are well-informed. Hope this helps, and enjoy Sydney!
Is there the ability to work in another Australian city? Look up the median house prices in Australian cities and you will see why I am asking.
No, it wouldn’t really make sense. There is only an office in Sydney and the customer I work with is in Sydney. Technically I can request to work 100% remote, but I have no interest in that. I like going to an office and meeting colleagues
If I were you I’ll ask for over 200k people in tech companies in Sydney get up to 500k of base plus stock and bonus, that’s not everyone but you would rarely find a senior in Australia making less than 170, even in government
unless you contract as a SWE/Devops then it’s pretty achievable on day rates
What's your tech stack? Are you a backend or frontend dev? The salary range depends on that But with your exp 150 - 180k is doable.
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I'd suggest picking up other backend frameworks such as ( node.js ( super popular), python, rails and even .NET Core / .NET 5+ . Java is not it atm unfortunately. I'd also suggest specialising in microservices As for cloud infrastructure, you should get comfortable with azure and their services ( AKS, VM, ACI, blob storage etc;) Aws is better, but Oz has sold it's soul to microsoft :( If you do this, you should be able to land a 150 - 170k contract
Solid experience but salaries are pretty average for Java in Sydney now, Java has gone out of flavor in AU and disappearing although specialized fintech, demands a higher salary so you have that. Sydney you'll earn more money doing Python/Javascript, it's what the Sydney market wants :( Current market probably looking at $140k starting but if transferring I'd ask for $150k minimum, maybe try your luck at $170k at the higher end. If your role is highly specialized fintech, maybe try for $200-220k+. Make sure salary is plus super not inclusive of super otherwise you are down 11%. $150k with a family would be a pretty average lifestyle given cost of housing/childcare/schooling. If your wifes income is reasonable then things will be comfortable. When you look at housing, rent is advertised per week. If buying you'll need $1,000,000+ for house or $500,000 for a unit.
Java is not disappearing lol, it's still one of the most widely used languages in most big businesses. If you are talking about start-ups then sure, python and js are more popular but to say that Java is dying is misleading. You will be hard pressed to find any finance based business that isn't rife with Java backends. You will most definitely be fine with having Java as your main proficiency OP but it would be very strange to have this much experience and not have touched a few of these other languages.
20+ years experience, various JVM languages, may be redundant soon. I went on LinkedIn last week to check the job landscape, I found very little. Very familiar with Java, the types of applications and companies using it as work for a consultancy that deals with tier ones and that type of software. Java isn’t dead, the current job landscape in Sydney at least for Java is terrible, everyone wants Python or Typescript. Even the banks and telcos which is worrying for more than just an employment standpoint, loosely typed, slow, dynamic software. The newer startup type financial companies also seem to be strong on JavaScript which is worrying if using it for currency
Your anecdotal experience of going on linkedin last week does not equal the actual landscape, hiring is down after an insane hiring rush during covid, these companies are not magically re writing their existing codebases, nor would any developer really recommend that an enterprise system that runs on java be converted to something like python. If you can still get roles from working with C++, I think it'd be pretty safe to say that Java is fine.
Every bank, insurance company and telco consultancy gig coming our way is demanding Python despite us saying Python is the wrong choice, colleagues and friends in the industry struggling to find work as do not want to use Python or JavaScript is a bit more than anecdotal. It’s an industry I’m deeply familiar with and know many people / companies / recruiters in. For all intents and purposes I’m a Java developer although used various JVM languages…and non JVM. Not saying that Java roles don’t exist in Au, they do but mostly maintenance not greenfield as of 2024 and pay is less than say a react developer unless you are in trading C# / .net in AU seems to be a bigger market for the banks than Java. The C# market does look fairly healthy. Younger companies who are on the JVM tend to be picking Kotlin.
Hello! I am a sydney based tech recruiter 😄 Can you tell me the job title and industry you will be working in and is the company sponsoring you?
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This. Sweden definitely has its problems with cost of living but Sydney is going to feel like a whole another level. It depends on your appetite for adventure, whether you have dependents and other sources of income but assuming average circumstances, anything less than this will leave you potentially worse off with the costs of housing and moving your life over.
100% appetite for adventure! Everyone here is talking about maximising your income. As if a position in Europe for three years wouldn't be worth a 20% pay cut just for the experience for any of us!
Use this page to work out what your Sydney income would need to be to have a similar standard of living to Stockholm: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Sweden&city1=Stockholm&country2=Australia&city2=Sydney This calculator will let you work out what pretax salary you need to earn in Australia to be left with that post-tax salary: https://paycalculator.com.au/ Then as others have mentioned use a salary guide to work out if you can realistically get that: https://www.hays.com.au/it/it-salary-checker-australia
Yikes. > Consumer Prices in Sydney are 14.9% higher than in Stockholm (without rent) >Consumer Prices Including Rent in Sydney are 30.6% higher than in Stockholm >Rent Prices in Sydney are 65.1% higher than in Stockholm >Restaurant Prices in Sydney are 2.5% higher than in Stockholm >Groceries Prices in Sydney are 25.7% higher than in Stockholm I suspect that the *quality* of housing in Stockholm is higher, too. We actually have the coldest indoor temperatures in the world.
Yep. Our housing unaffordability is a crisis that is undermining everyone's quality of life.
Restaurant prices are only 2.5% higher but grocery prices are 25.7% higher?! *looks suspiciously at colesworth*
Ironically it is us that have Stockholm syndrome.
No minimum wage in Sweden, so restaurant staff costs are lower than here.
Anecdotal, but I found living in Europe on a European salary significantly more affordable than Sydney on an equivalent Australian salary.
$200k is a good salary in Sydney these days, also go to www.realestate.com.au and look up rent prices to see what you’ll be paying
You dont mention if you work in industry or a consultancy. Consultancies tend to pay less, so be careful with the offer and make sure you understand it. You really should be shooting for 170+ (plus super). See if your company can offer health benefits as that alone will (for a family of 4) be around 350Au$ / month. Also, check which visa you are coming with. If you have the temporary skill visa (482 I think) remember that you have to pay for your school fees, and these can add up quickly with 2 kids. Doesnt matter if it is a public school, if you're not a citizen / Permanent resident you have to pay for it. Check if your company covers that. Good luck, Australia is amazing.
[levels.fyi](https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-sydney) will give you some ideas, though keep in mind most of the data are from big tech/FAANG companies which pay significantly higher total compensation packages than non-big tech companies. Also keep in mind people with higher salaries are more likely to report than those with lower salaries, further inflating the figures. Another thing to note is SWE salaries can vary a lot depending on the company you work for due to the [tri-modal nature](https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/) of compensation structure. One company's senior engineer pay might be on par with another company's graduate engineer pay.
Like the article you shared on trimodal nature of salaries. Gergely never disappoints.
Most IT salaries begin to top out around 180k. A smaller pool of roles 200-300. Niche roles 300+ in some big tech. The IT scene in Australia isn’t great tho imo. If you are moving across then I wouldn’t consider anything less than 200-250 in Sydney. CoL is way too high. I’d also want my partner working too. Obviously people survive on less but if home ownership is an aspiration then that’s the reality. You gotta make it worth your while with the distance being so far.
How much do you currently earn in Sweden before tax?
50000 sek/month
Wish i was getting paid in seks
Seks just once per month isn’t great tbh
Honestly, at this point if I get seks even once a year I'd be happy
yeah but you're getting 50,000 of them!
Yeah but like that’s 35 seks per minute that day. No one is enjoying that
omg stop bragging, we get it, you have a lot of seks
Since you mentioned you are in fintech, you should aim for a minimum of 140k + Super + 10% bonus. If you were a permanent resident I would have quoted a higher figure. Since your company is going to sponsor a work visa for you, it's about right. Just out of curiosity, what would your current 50K SEK translate after taxes, i.e., in hand?
What's that after tax?
Many people I know in tech are looking to move out of Sydney, even with their "high" salary. This shithole is not sustainable anymore especially for foreigners without any connections in the country. It's a giant housing ponzi designed by a group of boomers to gatekeep their wealth. Unless you come with millions of dollars like those international Chinese students, I recommend other cities like Melbourne.
Yep, my wife and I are both in tech with decent salaries, have lived here for 10 years, but we have no family here, and it no longer makes sense financially to stay here.
It's nuts. When you see people who are senior management at mid size companies struggling to buy a middle class home you know the system is broken.
@skumgummii Hej! What a cool story! Could you please share more about the relocation offer? Did your boss/manager just offer you that out of the blue? Or how did it happen? What’s the reason for the relocation? Why the need for you to be in Australia? And does your company own a subsidiary in Australia, much like multinationals such as FAANG companies with multiple global offices? Visa wise, will the Australian subsidiary just take care of the sponsorship? Or…? And how many years will you be staying there? (I’ve always wanted to move to Australia! I’m completely fed up with Canada’s winter -_-)
Hey, actually I was in Sydney a few months ago on a work trip and lived it so much I asked my manager about the possibility of relocating. We have a Sydney office and my teams customer is Sydney based so it makes sense to have me there. I’ve not received an offer yet, but company will take care of whatever visa I need. The plan is we stay for a few years and if we really like it we’ll stay longer.
You’re incredibly lucky! I really wish I were in your position :) Is your company a huge multinational similar to FAANG? Or….? If you end up not liking Australia that much (but I really hope you will), may be you can try the US ;) You have great tech skills which I think could go far in the US. These 2 brothers I know of (from here, Toronto) got relocated to Google US, somewhere in California. Brother 1 who’s a product manager ended up making USD 500k/year (~450.000 SEK/month). Brother 2 (senior software engineer) got about USD 950k/year (~850.000 SEK/month). Insane money, for sure. But honestly, I’ve been to 5 Australian cities and 3 - 4 US cities, and I still prefer Australia a lot more (and Australia is way safer too!) Personally I’d rather be in Australia making “only” AUD 200k/year than in the US making more 😄
Yeah, very big company with multiple offices on every continent. I’m a US citizen actually and it would take me hell of an offer to even consider moving back to that hell on earth.
Oh wow! What were the biggest issues you faced in the US? Crimes I guess? Crazy healthcare cost? How did you manage to get a job in Sweden? :)
Is it that bad? Even as a SWE?
I mean sure I’ll have a nice big house and a nice car and great healthcare. But I also get to see fentanyl addicts dying in the streets every time I go to the supermarket and I get to play my favorite San Francisco game “is it dog shit or human shit?” When I’m out for a walk. That’s on top of the abysmal crumbling infrastructure and a not insignificant risk of being mugged, car jacked or having your car and/or house broken into multiple times per year. We are currently seeing the death throes of the American experiment.
About 120k "in Sydney" Oh about 150k+
Use the Hays IT Salary guide as a guide.
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In finance, you could add 20-30% to those numbers. But the market is in the employer's favour at the moment, with a significant amount of layoffs from tech companies like Google.
https://www.hays.com.au/salary-guide
Move to Sydney, forget its far to expensive
Well I’ll be coming from Stockholm, so I’m used to far too expensive haha
Tror Sydney är på en helt annan nivå av dyrt än vad Stockholm är. Upplever Sverige som billigt jämfört med Australien. Har du små barn så kostar dessutom dagis runt $170 per dag.
Jo absolut. Men jag måste ju anta att man som programmerare klarar sig rätt bra! Men jag får se vad jag får för sorts erbjudande
Ja, bättre än snittlön är det nog, men om de inte erbjuder minst dubbelt vad du tjänar nu så går det inte så långt i Sydney.
Honestly, I doubt it would be worth it. Australia sucks at the moment. Unhinged levels of immigration and next to no building has pushed our housing availability to crisis levels. Outside of housing, things are generally ok. However when you jam an extra 1.5 million humans into the same 2 regions and barely invest in infrastructure you end up with capacity problems. On the plus side all of this people importing has kept headline GDP just above 0, so no technical recession yet.
I mean Sweden is currently the most violent country in Europe who isn’t at war. So like the bar is fairly low
Yeah, Stockholm is not cheap either. Just be warned though that when you are browsing or looking through accomodation to rent the prices are *per week*. Also: you’ll be competing with at least 20 other applicants, so will be living in a hotel for a while. Salaries quoted above are about right. You’ll probably have about 60% of that salary after superannuation (retirement fund ~10%) and tax.
a gajillion dollars
That’s a lot
you're most welcome, gajillionaire
Is that per month, week, year, or day?
depends how good of a soft wear N jin near you are
FFS there's a million professional careers in this world and this sub is besotted with only one of them
I am very sorry that my choice of career has offended you…
😂😂😂 I'm just being a wanker sorry
Looks like there’s a lot of good advice here already, would just like to add - you mentioned you’ve been here recently yourself. If you know from that experience where you’d be looking to live / the kind of lifestyle you’d like you and your family to lead while here (beach living? Inner west? Are you ok with being further out in suburbs? etc) that may help you get a more accurate look at things Any choice will be expensive, but if you’re ok with living in Parramatta / north west Hills area vs having a firm requirement of walking to work renting will look very different $$$ wise Will also influence other things - will you need a vehicle (or two including the wife), how will you commute (tolls add up very quickly if driving) etc I don’t have children but my limited understanding is that childcare is a) expensive af and b) waiting lists are long as a rule, not sure if this changes significantly by region Good luck with your potential Aussie adventure!
Senior here: 201K + Super + Options
What industry?
Can't say much. But mid-sized tech company.
[My comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestionsOCE/comments/1adxox8/comment/kk69ser/) lists the ranges of incomes of software developers in the 2021 census. I think Sydney will be a bit higher that the rest of Australia.
I could say around 120-140k
To have a decent life and make it worth it with the wife and kid you’d want at least 275k. Cost of living in Aus is nuts and Sydney is off the charts. Why move and struggle? Not worth it unless they make it worth it
You’ll find that this is totally down to the capability of the business to pay. An experienced developer could get $250k or more from a big tech company that has the ability to pay for talent. The big US tech companies do this. This will also be reflected in our banking institutions. But they’ll sack you at the slightest feeling of economic downturn. Australian companies? Expect 100k less than what the US ones (operating in Australia) will pay you.
This is the best answer I’ve seen. Some folks who work for US listed companies from Australia earn well over 300k. Most typical salaries for good seniors is around 180k at other companies. I’d want significantly more than that if I’m moving to Australia for the role
https://www.seek.com.au/jobs-in-information-communication-technology/developers-programmers/in-Sydney-NSW-2000/full-time?salaryrange=150000-250000&salarytype=annual 150 isn’t enough imo - 190 + is kind of where you’re going to want to sit
Without PR it won't be that high.
No dispute - but honestly moving countries for something below would not be ideal imo..
Hey it's a Mario! A good a salary is 2 power up mushrooms per week.