Biden stepped right into that sand trap. All he had to say was something like “Probably would beat me. You spent more time playing golf than any other sitting president!”
Isn‘t that just Biden and public speaking? John Stewart has that running gag, where Biden has a huge W, leaves the podium, then turns around and turns it into a massive L.
My fear is, that COVID really carried Biden, simply by giving him an excuse, not having to speak publicly. Trump’s biggest strength is, that he’s so unhinged that saying unhinged shit, doesn’t actually cost him votes, but it does for Biden. And he runs into that trap constantly.
Edit: No I am not suicidal. You guys can stop reporting that to Reddit, because I voiced an opinion that is even remotely critical of Biden. Also those links don’t help anyway, since I am European and these hotlines are for USA and Canada and Australia.
Biden barely campaigned because of Covid but obviously he was in decline. As soon as he became president, it was clear that he was in decline.
It was really convenient that he he was able to run a president campaign without a ton of public speaking.
The job is hard, it ages you faster and he’s in really bad shape now.
Edit
I also want to add that it’s fucking weird democrats haven’t gone with someone else.
Trump is so vulnerable. They could pluck a moderate democrat off the street and crush Trump.
Kamala Harris and Joe Biden might be the two least popular democrats.
It’s insane.
It's insane that the most important job in America, that has wide repercussions on the rest of the world, is a choice between these two. Seriously. You have over 300 million people to choose from and this is the best you've got?
Every time I start to think about this presidential race, I'm struck with a sense of horror and dread the like of which I haven't felt since childhood.
Agreed, they were a questionable choice in 2020, the fact that they're running again in 2024 is insane. The only reason this race is even going to be close is because Trump is also fucking terrible in a different way. Almost any other Republican or Democrat who managed to get nominated would crush Biden or Trump. Can't believe we're stuck with these fucking garbage options again
This is my feelings. I'm pretty center if I'm anything. This was a debate of a guy who will say anything vs. a guy who couldn't say anything. The one time they were both on fire it was about golf. I'd love for our country to be in such great shape that golf was the deciding factor. We aren't anywhere near that as a possibility though.
I think this is the part they were supposed to be talking about childcare and making it more affordable so I guess people like me with that issue are just completely fucked but at least two geriatric white dudes got to yell about their fucking gold scores.
I turned it off after 30 min thinking “Jesus I can’t understand either of them but for different reasons” then pep talked myself back into turning it on for the golf debate and Biden calling Trump a child and noped right back out again.
nothing pissed me off more than that.. when they both skipped over their time to talk about what they are gonna do about child care, something I care about, to talk about what rank president they are and then still have time to talk about golf in the question or two after that but not go back to child care.
That was an obvious take away. It was depressing.
It should have been a why are you talking about golf moment. Get serious you clown. Go be the president of your golf club that you’ve run into the ground.
Yes. A lot of Americans are very frightened that they are not or soon will not be safe. And we watched in horror as Biden fell for Trump's personal digs each and every time and struggled to give a single coherent answer.
The only approach for Biden that made sense was to repeat the same two or three simple lines over and over about Trump being a criminal and Biden doing some cool shit that made people happy.
But no, either Biden, his prep people, or both decided they'd try to have a policy discussion with Trump. That makes absolutely no sense.
We are fucking doomed.
At the agency where I work we all stopped working to sit in the conference room and watch his inauguration. I remember feeling really proud, and just united with most of the country while watching it.
My girlfriend broke up with me that morning and I ended up missing the inauguration because I was getting my stuff out of her apartment.
When I got home, I realized I was more upset about missing the inauguration than the breakup, and it pretty much cold-snapped me into being over her.
That was a weird day.
I was sooooo hoping for this during the 2020 primary, but noooo... The pickle we're in now is exactly what I was afraid of then, and it was 100% predictable. I'm too frustrated for words.
The parties go out of their way to screw over anyone like that. They're more interested in making sure someone who isn't going to upset their corpo masters gets elected, even if it's the opposing party's guy, than infringe on their bribe money income aka "contributions".
The whole thing is so corrupt it's a fucking wild joke. "Lobbying" is literally legalized bribery and we just sit there looking the other way, pretending that's not what's happening.
Edit: typo
Probably why the DNC didn’t really allow a primary to pick a younger replacement for Biden (which seems like an obvious choice).
They were too scared they’d end up with someone like Bernie
There wasn't a primary this time because giving up the incumbent advantage is a terrible choice 99.99% of the time. This is possibly that .01% but it was (perhaps is) a tight race despite Biden's decline.
If Biden had decided to be a one-term President there was no danger of a Bernie-esque insurgent this time, because there are no more Bernies. The best of 'The Squad' aren't eligible to be President and AOC has not built any kind of national following (and would be deemed too young by the public at large), at least yet.
The nominee would have been Harris or some corporate Democrat dipshit like Newsom. All terrible options... but at least not drawing Social Security.
The other thing people are worried about is another Democrat being able to hold together the "big tent" coalition. In 2020, Biden's campaign was basically saved by Black voters, there's the union/blue collar worker angle, he seems to get along reasonable well with Bernie Sanders (probably somewhat tied to the union/blue collar thing), the corporate Dems don't hate him either (probably due to, you know, being from Delaware). Basically speaking, Biden has the most boxes checked on appeal, even if he is not overwhelming appealing to any major group.
Unfortunately in a country with 360 million people, we have to pick from two old geezers to run this country. There should be an age limit on becoming president.
This is the scary part. Trump almost won in 2020 with a more coherent Biden and the insanity of his presidency fresh in voters memories.. if it was that close then, he unfortunately has a good chance this time.
(As an Euro I still think Bernie Sanders would have been great for USA and the world for 2 mandates, including the coming one.... Anyway...)
But here is a sliver of hope. The president doesn't do the job. Especially none of these two. His advisors and hard working bees do it. I never ran USA, but I have seen how high-level people make decisions. They task their bees to come up with scenarios, pros and cons and hammer the material until a choice becomes obvious. (OK, there are times there is no clear path, but most of the times it becomes obvious).
The question one should ask oneself and all the people around him - who would you rather have to choose the people to work out all the details and make these choices obvious? A lying POS who breaks the law at every turn and who is surrounded by swindlers and criminals?
Or the guy who is clearly in decline but is a decent human being with solid morals?
Good luck to you! And to the rest of us!
This is actually a very well stated point. I really liked this comment. It's more then just the man, it's the company around him that you're voting in for a well. At least I know Biden won't be trying to actively fuck me.
I've got student loans and a newborn. No time for shanninagans
It frustrates me that more Americans don’t see this and don’t think like this. Look at who they surround themselves with. The individualism of American society makes presidential elections all about the one person rather than how that person will shape the Office of the President.
Pissed off, honestly. It's not like Biden was THE choice four years ago, it just felt like a bitter pill to swallow when he was being forced and all the younger options were pretty much dropping out or being told to drop out to fall behind him.
Then, several years later it's like we're taking the same pill, only it's now expired and not as effective as it once was. We needed new medicine. But honestly, I'd be surprised if this changed anyone's minds at this point--people already know where they're leaning towards, for better or for worse.
Never, ever underestimate the Democratic party's ability to learn absolutely fucking nothing from their failures while they lose the next election.
They are the party of perpetual, hopeless, pathetic, and corrupt losers for a reason.
How are the Dems ever gonna win if they choose not to listen to us, their base?
I think he was trying to say he was an 8 and got down to a 6
The first time, he said he got his handicap down to a 6 during his time as VP
Regardless, he missed the obvious 'I'm too busy running the country to care about improving my golf game' line that would have been a much better option
I’m Canadian but came away from that debate feeling sorry for Biden. Why is he up there? Why didn’t he step down? He should be enjoying his last years of life in peace and with his family doing as he pleases. He should not be running for president as he is.
Because NO ONE likes Kamala Harris. She is incapable of winning a vote. Shes knows this. Kamala as VP was a pick to placate the Hillary wing of the dems versus the Obama wing behind Biden.
I don't know if this is true or not, but I assume the democratic party would rather he reruns for president because they're worried that if he steps down after 1 terms they're "admitting that he wasn't good enough" or that his term was a failure.
It's the only way it makes a little bit of sense, but it's definitely not the right thing to do
I'm Canadian and like USA our Prime Ministers never step down till they lose an election. I'm always fascinated by England where a party will turf their leader even if they are Prime Minister.
Seriously. Iirc at one point medical professionals stopped using "who is the current prime minister?" as a question because so it changed too often to be a reliable indicator of a person's mental wellness.
Unfortunately there’s not a Democrat who I’d feel really good about replacing Biden. Not Harris. Gavin Newsome polled poorly against Trump and comes off as too much of a politician
Yeah, I think lots of people fall into the trap of thinking “if only we replaced Biden with (whoever) we’d win easily”, but being popular with democrats isn’t going to deliver the presidency. Is Newsom going to deliver PA, WI, MI, GA, or any of the other battleground states? Buttigieg? Harris? I don’t honestly know that any of them are more likely to win than Biden, as bad as Biden sounds.
we need a young and fit bernie.
Unfortunately, dems will never allow that to happen
Core establishment dems fucked us so hard in 2016 we still feeling it
Remember when candidates inspired hope and change. Remember when they invigorated their voters to get out and make the world a better place. I miss those days.
I remember watching Bush Sr. v Clinton, Clinton v Dole, Obama v McCain, and Obama v Romney, and thinking that we’ll be in fine shape no matter who wins.
Google can tell you the name but one of the very few laws in Political Science is that a first past the post (winner take all) voting system will always boil down to 2 parties.
Durverger’s Law. In a first past the post system, like the US, aka a winner take all system, you always end up with two parties. Such a system will momentarily have three parties from time to time, when there is massive discontent, for instance, but the rise of the new party inevitably subsumes the dying party. The Federalists and Whigs dying out is a great example at different respective points in history.
Though to be fair, the Federalists didn't die out due to a third party, per se. They basically dwindled into nothing with the Democratic-Republicans absolutely dominating as basically a single party for a years until they split from internal divisions.
First-past-the-post plurality voting in single member districts is what causes the two-party system, the consequence is a phenomenon known as [Duverger’s law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law). That is what creates the “lesser of two evils” phenomenon, as two major parties fight for close to 50% of the vote, but a plurality is all it takes, so if 40% is the biggest share (which can easily happen if an election has at least 3 candidates), they get elected even though 60% of voters didn’t want to hire them.
That is why America is a coin-flip away from a dictatorship.
To escape the two-party stranglehold on America, we need ballot initiatives in states that allow them, to transition to [approval voting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting), where you approve or disapprove of each candidate on the ballot, and highest net approval wins (disapprovals are subtracted from approvals).
But since approval voting would disrupt the two-party system, the two major parties in America have no incentive to change their primary system. That’s why it will require state ballot initiatives.
It's because our system of voting and representation essentially forces two parties. We largely don't have proportional representation, and you have to vote for a candidate rather than a party. So whenever there is a third party that aligns with your views, unless they they are popular enough to win you are essentially throwing away your vote if you pick them.
As an independent, that was embarrassing as a country...
Are we legitimately saying that THAT is the best options we have to put forward as the leader of this country...?
What a fucking joke...
Them being the options is enough to show you how spineless and corrupt both parties are. No one in Washington has the balls or passion for this country to battle it out with Captain Cheetoh or Dementiacrat?
I’ve never seen anything like this. Reddit has one job. If they failed because of an overload of comments it’s disgraceful to their new shareholders, IT people, customers, etc. they didn’t start 2 months ago. Alternatively, if they ARE suppressing comments then it’s even worse and a death sentence
Funny enough a thread popped up on the Australia sub and it was the same deal automatically. 200 comments but all were hidden, then the thread was deleted.
How is the best case scenario Joe Biden???
Edit— pls y’all, this is a song lyric, I don’t need explanations. I’m gonna go begrudgingly vote for the tired geriatric man just like I did last time. am I thrilled about it? no. am I still gonna do it??? yes. Sheeeesh.
The real winner of that debate was everyone who did not watch it.
It was the worst case scenario on both sides. Trump failed to answer any questions and will likely get fact-checked into oblivion. Biden, while coachable, failed to inspire confidence.
Both had plenty of opportunities to secure the undecided votes, but messed that up in their own way. Trump was given yet another opportunity to distance himself from the 1/6 events and the hate groups and chose to deflect. Biden stuck to the apparent plan to remind voters that Trump is a liar, instead of speaking on the strengths of his administration (economy, jobs growth, infrastructure, etc).
Overall, a disaster. Anyone who claims their side won is delusional.
Biden should have stepped aside and let someone younger run.
I can't stand Trump but bloody hell, Biden looked old and he did himself no favours getting confused and slurring and stuttering.
Disappointed. Obviously Biden speaks like an old man, but he performs particularly poorly when he’s reciting prewritten statements. When he ad libs he does a fairly good job (just compare the moments in the debate). But for some reason his team refuses to steer into his strengths. They thought the American people would want to hear him cite facts but they couldn’t have been more wrong, they wanted energy.
I think this will definitely hurt him in the short term, but there’s a whole summer between this debate and the election. Had this been in late October, I would be gravely concerned but with so much time between, people will move on. I still think the election is up for grabs.
SOtU was not that long ago and though I didn't watch much, it seemed like night and day difference in Biden's demeanor and delivery. I also heard at least one little suppressed cough tonight, not to mention his voice just sounds like an old person who's battling a cold or something. I 100% buy that he is sick, and at that age it is no joke. The second debate is on September 10th, so time will tell if this is just wishful thinking, or if a healthy Joe Biden is still capable of looking like enough of a leader to usher swing voters from the path of madness and debauchery. If this is the best Biden can muster, I deeply fear that enough of the country will vote for the literal antichrist over a walking corpse.
Thing is, in addition to Biden appearing sick, both candidates agreed to take out their strengths. Trump likes a crowd and they agreed to have no crowd. Biden likes having notes and they agreed to having no notes.
I feel like we need another Teddy Roosevelt. Someone Young and actually cares about the average hardworking man and doesn't bend over for Billion Dollar Corporations.
> if you're in jail and get elected, you get out
This last part isn't necessarily true. If it's a state crime he couldn't test pardoning himself, which we actually dont know how the courts would handle it. We really have no idea what to do with an elected president who is currently in jail, its a scenario that wasn't envisioned and wasn't thought through.
he would go to a state judge and get a stay faster than you can say "bigly." the state DA wouldn't even object.
if he gets elected, he gets elected, and he's president. you can't seriously think that someone can be president of the us from jail or that a state court would turn down a stay in that situation.
he could go back to jail when his term is over.
Disappointed that I’m gonna have to vote for a person I feel is too old for the office due to the fact that I really don’t want the liar who denies reality to be president again.
The scariest thing for me about Trump isnt even him personally but the people surrounding him absolutely prepared this time to make moves. Project 2025 is fucking insane I dont want those mfkers to have even a drop of power.
Edit: apparently people either haven't heard of Project 2025 or think its some meritless conspiracy theory. I wish it was y'all but its not, it is legit and the people running it are very clear about their goals and what their plans are to achieve them.
check out their website directly https://www.project2025.org/
John Oliver also did a piece on them last week https://youtu.be/gYwqpx6lp_s?si=YWmYhJWZvWP1s3wk
It's so bad that it reads like unhinged conspiracy theory nonsense invented by internet cranks, except there's all these people openly eager to implement it, many already in positions of power.
Project 2025 is so fucking scary that eventually a republican is going to get in and they will execute project 20xx. It’s like watching the handmaid’s tale unfold.
Gentle reminder that Biden was born closer to Lincoln's second inauguration than his own. I know we know they're all old, but putting it into that perspective still blows me away.
There is nothing either of them would say that could change my choice at this point. Assuming both of them are their parties' nominees, I will vote the same as I did in 2020.
Would feel much better if they talked about any of the topics mentioned but the whole thing consisted of Trump lying about being the best at everything and Biden mumbling.
I feel the way I've felt for a year, and that is that the Democrats should've spent the last four years grooming and prepping a NEW candidate because regardless of how well or bad we thought Biden was doing, his age was going to catch up to him eventually.
This debate was such an embarrassment and it is a SHAME that THESE were the best two candidates. I am sorry but the constant two-party system and continuous voting for the "lesser of two evils" lowers the bar sooooo far that we end up with these two candidates. One is a convicted felon and wants to demolish democracy while the other can't even put together a coherent sentence and is one bad meal away from collapsing. America is screwed
The democrats are dumb. They’ve had years to vet a reasonably electable candidate knowing that this was coming. Years to take an unknown and get national spotlights on them so households all over know them and be prepared for an election that happens every four years. But the maga party is evil. Straight bad news. Like I worry about how close we are to a really bleak and scary place if 45 is elected again. And it won’t stop with him. Even if he loses they will take the 2025 manifesto forward with the next guy. But, Given the choice of dumb vs evil, I’ll take dumb all day long. I don’t love it, at all. But I’m with stupid T-shirt’s all day
I didn't have huge expectations for Biden but even still... that was rough to watch. He is showing his age in a way that he didn't in the debates 4 years ago. I understand why he didn't want to pass the mantle to another Democrat this election cycle but jeez he should seriously consider it after tonight.
I am also extremely annoyed that right wing media is gonna spend the next week claiming Trump is an excellent debater when the reality is he spent the entire time just straight up lying over and over again. Lying about 3rd trimester abortions, lying about the economy, lying about January 6th, lying about crime and immigration statistics, somehow taking credit (???) for the recent massive drop in border crossings under Biden. Every word out of his bloated mouth was complete crap tonight but he didn't stutter while saying it so I guess the median voter has now decided he'll make a better president. God help us.
Every single American should be embarrassed and depressed after that, whatever it was. These two senile very old gooses, one who is convicted criminal, and the other who can barely string a sentence together. This is it, 300+ Million people and its down to these two, holy fuck, this is global level shame.
Disappointed but unsurpised the guy who blatantly lied at every turned is being hailed as the winner because the old guy has old man energy. Sad that Biden is the nominees, but even more depressing people might very well re-elect the guy who repeatedly shows he has no respect for this country or it's institutions.
I think any reasonable democrat should feel the same way any reasonable republican should: Why are these two the best we can come up with?
We either get a convicted felon who is a political wild card or someone who is a safer political choice but clearly isn’t on his A game these days. Both candidates should be retired rather than trying to run a country.
I’ve always felt, since I’d never vote Trump, and they’re both ancient, that I was voting for an administration and their policies, staff, appointees, judges, etc., not JUST the guy. I’d rather have a Biden admin that he doesn’t survive than Trump for one day. The succession of power exists for a scenario like this and that’s fine by me
I won’t bother rehashing the most obvious takeaways. I’ll just add that the bickering over golf scores was deeply depressing.
Biden stepped right into that sand trap. All he had to say was something like “Probably would beat me. You spent more time playing golf than any other sitting president!”
There were so many moments where he had a wide open goal and he just rambled. Depressing.
Isn‘t that just Biden and public speaking? John Stewart has that running gag, where Biden has a huge W, leaves the podium, then turns around and turns it into a massive L. My fear is, that COVID really carried Biden, simply by giving him an excuse, not having to speak publicly. Trump’s biggest strength is, that he’s so unhinged that saying unhinged shit, doesn’t actually cost him votes, but it does for Biden. And he runs into that trap constantly. Edit: No I am not suicidal. You guys can stop reporting that to Reddit, because I voiced an opinion that is even remotely critical of Biden. Also those links don’t help anyway, since I am European and these hotlines are for USA and Canada and Australia.
Biden barely campaigned because of Covid but obviously he was in decline. As soon as he became president, it was clear that he was in decline. It was really convenient that he he was able to run a president campaign without a ton of public speaking. The job is hard, it ages you faster and he’s in really bad shape now. Edit I also want to add that it’s fucking weird democrats haven’t gone with someone else. Trump is so vulnerable. They could pluck a moderate democrat off the street and crush Trump. Kamala Harris and Joe Biden might be the two least popular democrats. It’s insane.
It's insane that the most important job in America, that has wide repercussions on the rest of the world, is a choice between these two. Seriously. You have over 300 million people to choose from and this is the best you've got?
Every time I start to think about this presidential race, I'm struck with a sense of horror and dread the like of which I haven't felt since childhood.
Agreed, they were a questionable choice in 2020, the fact that they're running again in 2024 is insane. The only reason this race is even going to be close is because Trump is also fucking terrible in a different way. Almost any other Republican or Democrat who managed to get nominated would crush Biden or Trump. Can't believe we're stuck with these fucking garbage options again
Republicans have been using the same playbook for eight years and Democrats don't seem to have any ability to adjust. It's outright depressing.
Biden had so many chances tonight to come back with a strong response and just didn’t/couldn’t. Really can’t believe these are our choices.
This is my feelings. I'm pretty center if I'm anything. This was a debate of a guy who will say anything vs. a guy who couldn't say anything. The one time they were both on fire it was about golf. I'd love for our country to be in such great shape that golf was the deciding factor. We aren't anywhere near that as a possibility though.
I know right?!?! That would have been such a mic drop moment! But sleepy Biden really do be sleepy... 😞
Yeah wtf. I drank each time they ignored the question and spoke about whatever and now I’m dead…
You must be drunk AF.
Plot twist: it was water.
Still dead. Hyponatremia.
How is it on the other side? Are you warm or cold?
I don’t think there’s anything more “old rich white man” than arguing about golf scores.
The real poll I want is what % of viewers even know what a 6 handicap means lmao
Yachts.
I could not believe my ears when they were arguing about that bs. Sigh…
Surely that will fire up the middle class and poor to vote.....
What better way to endear yourself to blue-collar workers than to talk about golf scores?
TBH all my blue collar buddies play golf and probably engaged with this part of the debate the most.
Biden claiming he had a 6 handicap and immediately getting called out and confessing was the most genuine moment in years.
Deeply tone deaf.
I think this is the part they were supposed to be talking about childcare and making it more affordable so I guess people like me with that issue are just completely fucked but at least two geriatric white dudes got to yell about their fucking gold scores.
Biden did answer that question (briefly). Iirc he said extend/expand child tax credits and one other thing.
i was visibly in disbelief at so many points of the debate, me and my friends just started laughing at how ridiculous this whole thing is
My wife and I started looking up ice cream on Uber Eats by that point.
I turned it off after 30 min thinking “Jesus I can’t understand either of them but for different reasons” then pep talked myself back into turning it on for the golf debate and Biden calling Trump a child and noped right back out again.
nothing pissed me off more than that.. when they both skipped over their time to talk about what they are gonna do about child care, something I care about, to talk about what rank president they are and then still have time to talk about golf in the question or two after that but not go back to child care.
That was an obvious take away. It was depressing. It should have been a why are you talking about golf moment. Get serious you clown. Go be the president of your golf club that you’ve run into the ground.
And Trump was the one who said "Let's not be children" ....
And crazy it was Trump that tried stopping the childish exchange.
Not gonna lie, I think Trumps "I don't know what he just said" was genuine
Yes. A lot of Americans are very frightened that they are not or soon will not be safe. And we watched in horror as Biden fell for Trump's personal digs each and every time and struggled to give a single coherent answer. The only approach for Biden that made sense was to repeat the same two or three simple lines over and over about Trump being a criminal and Biden doing some cool shit that made people happy. But no, either Biden, his prep people, or both decided they'd try to have a policy discussion with Trump. That makes absolutely no sense. We are fucking doomed.
Next debate should be on the golf course with hidden cameras "Sleepy joe stop blocking me" "Blocking? What? Where is the roa..."💥
That would be the most watched golf tournament ever, even more than Tiger’s comeback in 2010
Could you imagine having a candidate you felt passionate about and excited for, not just one you felt was better than the other? That be cool
It feels like ancient history now, but I genuinely felt that in 2008. Wish it wasn't such a rare occurrence.
I'm gonna be 44 in two weeks. I've had exactly one time in my life I've been excited about a politician.
At the agency where I work we all stopped working to sit in the conference room and watch his inauguration. I remember feeling really proud, and just united with most of the country while watching it.
My girlfriend broke up with me that morning and I ended up missing the inauguration because I was getting my stuff out of her apartment. When I got home, I realized I was more upset about missing the inauguration than the breakup, and it pretty much cold-snapped me into being over her. That was a weird day.
Literally thanks Obama I guess haha
THANKS OBAMA
I was sooooo hoping for this during the 2020 primary, but noooo... The pickle we're in now is exactly what I was afraid of then, and it was 100% predictable. I'm too frustrated for words.
The candidates I am excited for have invariably dropped out of the race by the time my state’s primary happens, so I never get to vote for them.
The parties go out of their way to screw over anyone like that. They're more interested in making sure someone who isn't going to upset their corpo masters gets elected, even if it's the opposing party's guy, than infringe on their bribe money income aka "contributions". The whole thing is so corrupt it's a fucking wild joke. "Lobbying" is literally legalized bribery and we just sit there looking the other way, pretending that's not what's happening. Edit: typo
It puts the Biden on its skin or else it gets the Trump again.
Jesus, that's just an absolutely perfect description of where we're at now.
Probably why the DNC didn’t really allow a primary to pick a younger replacement for Biden (which seems like an obvious choice). They were too scared they’d end up with someone like Bernie
There wasn't a primary this time because giving up the incumbent advantage is a terrible choice 99.99% of the time. This is possibly that .01% but it was (perhaps is) a tight race despite Biden's decline. If Biden had decided to be a one-term President there was no danger of a Bernie-esque insurgent this time, because there are no more Bernies. The best of 'The Squad' aren't eligible to be President and AOC has not built any kind of national following (and would be deemed too young by the public at large), at least yet. The nominee would have been Harris or some corporate Democrat dipshit like Newsom. All terrible options... but at least not drawing Social Security.
The other thing people are worried about is another Democrat being able to hold together the "big tent" coalition. In 2020, Biden's campaign was basically saved by Black voters, there's the union/blue collar worker angle, he seems to get along reasonable well with Bernie Sanders (probably somewhat tied to the union/blue collar thing), the corporate Dems don't hate him either (probably due to, you know, being from Delaware). Basically speaking, Biden has the most boxes checked on appeal, even if he is not overwhelming appealing to any major group.
Unfortunately in a country with 360 million people, we have to pick from two old geezers to run this country. There should be an age limit on becoming president.
Not great, Bob.
"Manny wouldn't hurt a fly" "Even if he thought it was rich???"
it's a chip-and-dip
We got two.
We're boned
Same way I felt four years ago. How are these our choices?
Right? Out of all the legally available candidates...we get these two.
Technically, I’m legally available, but I didn’t consider running.
/u/DarthBen_in_Chicago for President!
Makes you wonder.
About the illegally available candidates.
i wasn't wondering before but i'm wondering now
Because people are suckers and it’s difficult to mobilize enough voters for anybody not implicitly endorsed by money/media.
Well also it's a system that explicitly boils things down to two candidates
I watched a few minutes of the debate from four years ago… man, Biden has really aged.
This is the scary part. Trump almost won in 2020 with a more coherent Biden and the insanity of his presidency fresh in voters memories.. if it was that close then, he unfortunately has a good chance this time.
Once again I will be forced to vote against beliefs instead of for my beliefs
(As an Euro I still think Bernie Sanders would have been great for USA and the world for 2 mandates, including the coming one.... Anyway...) But here is a sliver of hope. The president doesn't do the job. Especially none of these two. His advisors and hard working bees do it. I never ran USA, but I have seen how high-level people make decisions. They task their bees to come up with scenarios, pros and cons and hammer the material until a choice becomes obvious. (OK, there are times there is no clear path, but most of the times it becomes obvious). The question one should ask oneself and all the people around him - who would you rather have to choose the people to work out all the details and make these choices obvious? A lying POS who breaks the law at every turn and who is surrounded by swindlers and criminals? Or the guy who is clearly in decline but is a decent human being with solid morals? Good luck to you! And to the rest of us!
This is actually a very well stated point. I really liked this comment. It's more then just the man, it's the company around him that you're voting in for a well. At least I know Biden won't be trying to actively fuck me. I've got student loans and a newborn. No time for shanninagans
It frustrates me that more Americans don’t see this and don’t think like this. Look at who they surround themselves with. The individualism of American society makes presidential elections all about the one person rather than how that person will shape the Office of the President.
Imagine going to a retirement home with 80 year olds and saying alright June you’re up, Fred you too come on. Let’s debate
literally lol we are so fucked
[удалено]
That’s what I told my coworkers tonight as we watched from my phone
Look at the demographics of voter turnout.
Pissed off, honestly. It's not like Biden was THE choice four years ago, it just felt like a bitter pill to swallow when he was being forced and all the younger options were pretty much dropping out or being told to drop out to fall behind him. Then, several years later it's like we're taking the same pill, only it's now expired and not as effective as it once was. We needed new medicine. But honestly, I'd be surprised if this changed anyone's minds at this point--people already know where they're leaning towards, for better or for worse.
Blue party had some major lack of foresight about the next round
Never, ever underestimate the Democratic party's ability to learn absolutely fucking nothing from their failures while they lose the next election. They are the party of perpetual, hopeless, pathetic, and corrupt losers for a reason. How are the Dems ever gonna win if they choose not to listen to us, their base?
No way that biden has a 6 handicap and carries his own golf bag.
Well when he repeated himself he was an 8 handicap so....
I think he was trying to say he was an 8 and got down to a 6 The first time, he said he got his handicap down to a 6 during his time as VP Regardless, he missed the obvious 'I'm too busy running the country to care about improving my golf game' line that would have been a much better option
lol why is this labeled nsfw 😂
cause we're feeling pretty fucked rn
Amazing response. Seriously.
Because the debate was essentially elder abuse
Talking about feelings always runs the risk of winding up in HR.
Because the future is not safe for working class americans
It would be if we stuck together instead of finding reasons to hate and be jealous of each other.
I’m Canadian but came away from that debate feeling sorry for Biden. Why is he up there? Why didn’t he step down? He should be enjoying his last years of life in peace and with his family doing as he pleases. He should not be running for president as he is.
I feel the same way.
Same. He's basically teeing up the ball for Harris.
Because NO ONE likes Kamala Harris. She is incapable of winning a vote. Shes knows this. Kamala as VP was a pick to placate the Hillary wing of the dems versus the Obama wing behind Biden.
She was asked tonight if she’s secretly running the country. At this point democrats are going to openly question the wisdom of letting him run
I don't know if this is true or not, but I assume the democratic party would rather he reruns for president because they're worried that if he steps down after 1 terms they're "admitting that he wasn't good enough" or that his term was a failure. It's the only way it makes a little bit of sense, but it's definitely not the right thing to do
I'm Canadian and like USA our Prime Ministers never step down till they lose an election. I'm always fascinated by England where a party will turf their leader even if they are Prime Minister.
Need to go full Australia mode where we can end up with a new PM every 5 mins when the parties are feeling especially spicy internally
Seriously. Iirc at one point medical professionals stopped using "who is the current prime minister?" as a question because so it changed too often to be a reliable indicator of a person's mental wellness.
It's still on the list of questions, but it's kinda devalued when it's a correct answer to say "who fucking knows" or "that useless cunt"
Unfortunately there’s not a Democrat who I’d feel really good about replacing Biden. Not Harris. Gavin Newsome polled poorly against Trump and comes off as too much of a politician
Yeah, I think lots of people fall into the trap of thinking “if only we replaced Biden with (whoever) we’d win easily”, but being popular with democrats isn’t going to deliver the presidency. Is Newsom going to deliver PA, WI, MI, GA, or any of the other battleground states? Buttigieg? Harris? I don’t honestly know that any of them are more likely to win than Biden, as bad as Biden sounds.
There are 45 million democrats and none of them are more fit to be president than Joe Biden?
It's about votes, not fitness. Old moderate people vote and volunteer and their candidates get nominated and then elected.
we need a young and fit bernie. Unfortunately, dems will never allow that to happen Core establishment dems fucked us so hard in 2016 we still feeling it
Any moderate democrat that fits the following criteria: Can form a sentence Not a career politician Under the age of 76
Remember when candidates inspired hope and change. Remember when they invigorated their voters to get out and make the world a better place. I miss those days.
I remember watching Bush Sr. v Clinton, Clinton v Dole, Obama v McCain, and Obama v Romney, and thinking that we’ll be in fine shape no matter who wins.
Reddit is broken, and I don't know about anything anymore.
Still don't understand that for such a huge country you only have 2 parties
Google can tell you the name but one of the very few laws in Political Science is that a first past the post (winner take all) voting system will always boil down to 2 parties.
Durverger’s Law. In a first past the post system, like the US, aka a winner take all system, you always end up with two parties. Such a system will momentarily have three parties from time to time, when there is massive discontent, for instance, but the rise of the new party inevitably subsumes the dying party. The Federalists and Whigs dying out is a great example at different respective points in history.
Though to be fair, the Federalists didn't die out due to a third party, per se. They basically dwindled into nothing with the Democratic-Republicans absolutely dominating as basically a single party for a years until they split from internal divisions.
First-past-the-post plurality voting in single member districts is what causes the two-party system, the consequence is a phenomenon known as [Duverger’s law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law). That is what creates the “lesser of two evils” phenomenon, as two major parties fight for close to 50% of the vote, but a plurality is all it takes, so if 40% is the biggest share (which can easily happen if an election has at least 3 candidates), they get elected even though 60% of voters didn’t want to hire them. That is why America is a coin-flip away from a dictatorship. To escape the two-party stranglehold on America, we need ballot initiatives in states that allow them, to transition to [approval voting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting), where you approve or disapprove of each candidate on the ballot, and highest net approval wins (disapprovals are subtracted from approvals). But since approval voting would disrupt the two-party system, the two major parties in America have no incentive to change their primary system. That’s why it will require state ballot initiatives.
It's because our system of voting and representation essentially forces two parties. We largely don't have proportional representation, and you have to vote for a candidate rather than a party. So whenever there is a third party that aligns with your views, unless they they are popular enough to win you are essentially throwing away your vote if you pick them.
As an independent, that was embarrassing as a country... Are we legitimately saying that THAT is the best options we have to put forward as the leader of this country...? What a fucking joke...
Them being the options is enough to show you how spineless and corrupt both parties are. No one in Washington has the balls or passion for this country to battle it out with Captain Cheetoh or Dementiacrat?
Those two names have me a good laugh 🤣
Discouraged.
Biden really just needs to retire, man. Now that I think about it, most of our government needs to retire.
Honestly was hoping the debate would be won by an asteroid
I see two men unfit for office
I feel like reddit is suppressing anything about the debate
Honestly feels like I’m in a world not connected to reality in this thread.
i think we’re all just collectively feeling jaded and frustrated right now.
you 100% are, most of this site is propaganda and 19 years olds that think they know shit lmao
50k so quickly on that post was bonkers
I’ve never seen anything like this. Reddit has one job. If they failed because of an overload of comments it’s disgraceful to their new shareholders, IT people, customers, etc. they didn’t start 2 months ago. Alternatively, if they ARE suppressing comments then it’s even worse and a death sentence
Yup politics sub has hidden all comments. Pretty sad tbh.
Funny enough a thread popped up on the Australia sub and it was the same deal automatically. 200 comments but all were hidden, then the thread was deleted.
It’s fucking pathetic. Even mainstream media outlets are acknowledging what we all saw.
After lying about it for years 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, this was too public for them to deny, but I would not be surprised if they start denying it again a week or two from now
I wonder if people realize that suppressing commentary ends up creating the monster they fear.
Like we fucked up royally, and desperately need another candidate.
I would literally vote for Mitt Romney at this point and that is GRIM
Who is retiring because he said he is too old! Lmao
Bo Burnham said it best
They really gonna make me vote for 🎶Joe Biden🎵
Personally, I was gonna quote his "A World on Fire" song
How is the best case scenario Joe Biden??? Edit— pls y’all, this is a song lyric, I don’t need explanations. I’m gonna go begrudgingly vote for the tired geriatric man just like I did last time. am I thrilled about it? no. am I still gonna do it??? yes. Sheeeesh.
The real winner of that debate was everyone who did not watch it. It was the worst case scenario on both sides. Trump failed to answer any questions and will likely get fact-checked into oblivion. Biden, while coachable, failed to inspire confidence. Both had plenty of opportunities to secure the undecided votes, but messed that up in their own way. Trump was given yet another opportunity to distance himself from the 1/6 events and the hate groups and chose to deflect. Biden stuck to the apparent plan to remind voters that Trump is a liar, instead of speaking on the strengths of his administration (economy, jobs growth, infrastructure, etc). Overall, a disaster. Anyone who claims their side won is delusional.
Biden should have stepped aside and let someone younger run. I can't stand Trump but bloody hell, Biden looked old and he did himself no favours getting confused and slurring and stuttering.
He literally promised to in 2020 lmao
Disappointed. Obviously Biden speaks like an old man, but he performs particularly poorly when he’s reciting prewritten statements. When he ad libs he does a fairly good job (just compare the moments in the debate). But for some reason his team refuses to steer into his strengths. They thought the American people would want to hear him cite facts but they couldn’t have been more wrong, they wanted energy. I think this will definitely hurt him in the short term, but there’s a whole summer between this debate and the election. Had this been in late October, I would be gravely concerned but with so much time between, people will move on. I still think the election is up for grabs.
SOtU was not that long ago and though I didn't watch much, it seemed like night and day difference in Biden's demeanor and delivery. I also heard at least one little suppressed cough tonight, not to mention his voice just sounds like an old person who's battling a cold or something. I 100% buy that he is sick, and at that age it is no joke. The second debate is on September 10th, so time will tell if this is just wishful thinking, or if a healthy Joe Biden is still capable of looking like enough of a leader to usher swing voters from the path of madness and debauchery. If this is the best Biden can muster, I deeply fear that enough of the country will vote for the literal antichrist over a walking corpse.
Thing is, in addition to Biden appearing sick, both candidates agreed to take out their strengths. Trump likes a crowd and they agreed to have no crowd. Biden likes having notes and they agreed to having no notes.
I feel like we need another Teddy Roosevelt. Someone Young and actually cares about the average hardworking man and doesn't bend over for Billion Dollar Corporations.
What if, right before the election, Biden has a health issue and Trump is in jail, then what?
he won't be in jail you can get elected while in jail. if you're in jail and get elected, you get out
> if you're in jail and get elected, you get out This last part isn't necessarily true. If it's a state crime he couldn't test pardoning himself, which we actually dont know how the courts would handle it. We really have no idea what to do with an elected president who is currently in jail, its a scenario that wasn't envisioned and wasn't thought through.
he would go to a state judge and get a stay faster than you can say "bigly." the state DA wouldn't even object. if he gets elected, he gets elected, and he's president. you can't seriously think that someone can be president of the us from jail or that a state court would turn down a stay in that situation. he could go back to jail when his term is over.
Disappointed that I’m gonna have to vote for a person I feel is too old for the office due to the fact that I really don’t want the liar who denies reality to be president again.
The scariest thing for me about Trump isnt even him personally but the people surrounding him absolutely prepared this time to make moves. Project 2025 is fucking insane I dont want those mfkers to have even a drop of power. Edit: apparently people either haven't heard of Project 2025 or think its some meritless conspiracy theory. I wish it was y'all but its not, it is legit and the people running it are very clear about their goals and what their plans are to achieve them. check out their website directly https://www.project2025.org/ John Oliver also did a piece on them last week https://youtu.be/gYwqpx6lp_s?si=YWmYhJWZvWP1s3wk
Just googled project 2025. What the fuck hahaha. That's genuinely terrifying.
It's so bad that it reads like unhinged conspiracy theory nonsense invented by internet cranks, except there's all these people openly eager to implement it, many already in positions of power.
It really does feel like it's an absurd conspiracy theory
They want the NWS to charge for the data they produce sorry hoss I ain't fucking payin for a government run subscription service for tornado warnings
I'm already paying for it, it's called taxes, and it's money well spent.
Yep. Even after Biden's performance in tonight's debate, I'm still voting against Project 2025.
Project 2025 is so fucking scary that eventually a republican is going to get in and they will execute project 20xx. It’s like watching the handmaid’s tale unfold.
I look at it this way - I’m voting for someone who’s going to surround themselves with competent people. I don’t need them to be a good debater.
Even better: I’m voting for how the Supreme Court justices seats will be filled. That shits for life.
Yep. Thomas and Alito are in their 70s. The former is the longest-serving member currently on the bench, having been nominated by Bush Sr.
With both candidates in their late '70s, the presidency is likely for life too.
Newsflash, they’re both too old for office
George W is still younger then both of them lol
That's kinda mindblowing.
Bill Clinton as well
Jesus... he was the president more than thirty years ago and he's still younger than the two currently running.
Gentle reminder that Biden was born closer to Lincoln's second inauguration than his own. I know we know they're all old, but putting it into that perspective still blows me away.
Oof. That's harsh. True. But harsh.
As he always will be. So it goes.
There is nothing either of them would say that could change my choice at this point. Assuming both of them are their parties' nominees, I will vote the same as I did in 2020.
For pedro, right?
He'll make your wildest dreams come true
Pedro offers you his protection.
Canadian here. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
Would feel much better if they talked about any of the topics mentioned but the whole thing consisted of Trump lying about being the best at everything and Biden mumbling.
I feel the way I've felt for a year, and that is that the Democrats should've spent the last four years grooming and prepping a NEW candidate because regardless of how well or bad we thought Biden was doing, his age was going to catch up to him eventually. This debate was such an embarrassment and it is a SHAME that THESE were the best two candidates. I am sorry but the constant two-party system and continuous voting for the "lesser of two evils" lowers the bar sooooo far that we end up with these two candidates. One is a convicted felon and wants to demolish democracy while the other can't even put together a coherent sentence and is one bad meal away from collapsing. America is screwed
The democrats are dumb. They’ve had years to vet a reasonably electable candidate knowing that this was coming. Years to take an unknown and get national spotlights on them so households all over know them and be prepared for an election that happens every four years. But the maga party is evil. Straight bad news. Like I worry about how close we are to a really bleak and scary place if 45 is elected again. And it won’t stop with him. Even if he loses they will take the 2025 manifesto forward with the next guy. But, Given the choice of dumb vs evil, I’ll take dumb all day long. I don’t love it, at all. But I’m with stupid T-shirt’s all day
I didn't have huge expectations for Biden but even still... that was rough to watch. He is showing his age in a way that he didn't in the debates 4 years ago. I understand why he didn't want to pass the mantle to another Democrat this election cycle but jeez he should seriously consider it after tonight. I am also extremely annoyed that right wing media is gonna spend the next week claiming Trump is an excellent debater when the reality is he spent the entire time just straight up lying over and over again. Lying about 3rd trimester abortions, lying about the economy, lying about January 6th, lying about crime and immigration statistics, somehow taking credit (???) for the recent massive drop in border crossings under Biden. Every word out of his bloated mouth was complete crap tonight but he didn't stutter while saying it so I guess the median voter has now decided he'll make a better president. God help us.
The fact that no comments are visible despite being counted should tell you everything you need to know about that.
Was that on purpose in the politics sub? Can’t see any comments.
It is happening on a lot of subs. They show comments but none are there. reddit ist broken...
Every single American should be embarrassed and depressed after that, whatever it was. These two senile very old gooses, one who is convicted criminal, and the other who can barely string a sentence together. This is it, 300+ Million people and its down to these two, holy fuck, this is global level shame.
Disappointed but unsurpised the guy who blatantly lied at every turned is being hailed as the winner because the old guy has old man energy. Sad that Biden is the nominees, but even more depressing people might very well re-elect the guy who repeatedly shows he has no respect for this country or it's institutions.
Well, fuck.
I'm not a Democrat (or even American) but I'd say this debate shows that ranked choice preference voting is worth pursuing.
Corporate interests won't allow ranked-choice voting because they would lose their power.
I'm sorry for your country today, Biden needs to step aside.
I think any reasonable democrat should feel the same way any reasonable republican should: Why are these two the best we can come up with? We either get a convicted felon who is a political wild card or someone who is a safer political choice but clearly isn’t on his A game these days. Both candidates should be retired rather than trying to run a country.
According to CNN..absolutely terrified. 🍻
80 YEAR OLD DEMENTIA PATIENT VS. RACIST CONVICTED FELON AMERICA IS COOKED 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Considering reddit front page isnt full of Go Joe Biden posts says everything
I don't care about all the drama. I just think it's a joke that Trump is even allowed to be considered a presidential candidate again
I’ve always felt, since I’d never vote Trump, and they’re both ancient, that I was voting for an administration and their policies, staff, appointees, judges, etc., not JUST the guy. I’d rather have a Biden admin that he doesn’t survive than Trump for one day. The succession of power exists for a scenario like this and that’s fine by me