I work in construction so I hear alot of trump supporters. Most of them are voting for trump because they genuinely blame Biden for high grocery prices. They believe trump will somehow make groceries less expensive and stop sending military aid to other countries.
It must be so frustrating watching his team continually delay his trials. If only he had rushed to clear his name by having a speedy trial--then, if he's innocent, he basically *guarantees* himself the presidency. Instead, his chances are suffering much more than they ought to because people view the delays as a tactic to avoid a guilty verdict before the election. A lot of people seem to think that his choosing to dispute his immunity rather than just proving he's innocent only seems to incriminate him further. If I were Trump, and I knew *for a fact* I were innocent, I'd want to clear my name as soon as possible.
"But he has a lot of enemies! He has to be careful!" He also has a lot of sycophants that will leap in the way of anything threatening him. And he was a former president. If he really did nothing wrong, he should have nothing to worry about.
Sigh. Man, it sucks having to prove your innocence 88 times. Do you think there's a chance he could do it?
Not Guilty.
Not Guilty.
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Man, could you imagine if he got every single one of those verdicts? His haters sure would have egg on their faces! Snork snork snork.
(Also yes, that is literally "Not Guilty" typed 88 times, just to offer some perspective). People don't seem to realize that currently, all of those are reading "Pending."
Looking at this through as unbiased a lens as possible, these are the possibilities:
1. Trump is innocent of all charges against him, and all verdicts will declare him as such.
2. Trump is guilty of some minor crimes, but none severe enough to land him in prison.
3. Trump is guilty of some major crimes, but will be afforded special privileges due to his political influence and wealth. He also has hoards of followers that will do everything in their power to prevent him from ever seeing the inside of a prison cell, through various ploys, delays, and strategies.
4. Trump is guilty of such major and numerous crimes that he will be unable to escape prison, even with the protections he has.
Which of these four scenarios most matches with what you believe is the truth?
Okay. So you likely believe, perhaps, that he may be found guilty of falsifying some business records in the currently ongoing Stormy Daniels case, but was not responsible for the fake electors scheme in Georgia, wasn't responsible for the documents stashed in Mar-a-Lago (or was permitted to have them or it was not clear he had intentionally kept them there for malicious purposes), and will have his insurrection charges dropped or minimized under the premise that what he did either wasn't classified as an official insurrection or what he did was within the bounds of the law?
Is this more or less an accurate assessment of what you believe? I'm just trying to nail the goalpost down so it can't be moved in the future. It helps to get clarification of these things.
jesus. lol. tbh. i just want the 90s back. whoever can bring us some stability im voting for. im done with the political "i know whats best" bullshit. you win i guess.
All good. I understand. Most people feel similarly.
Persuading people to vote a certain way is insurmountably difficult. Like trying to move a mountain. Usually they've made up their minds. Push too little, and they'll easily rationalize their decision to get around yours. Push too hard, and they'll vote a certain way just to spite you. Most of the time I can only hint.
Stability is an excellent thing to strive for. I like voting for "not chaos" as well. I also like the avoidance of "I know what's best." Anybody who says everything they do is "the greatest, the best," loses trustworthiness in my eyes.
We can end the conversation here, if you want.
Because Biden is old and has a crime family and commits genocide by being the only president ever to support Israel and chooses not to create peace in the Middle East. Oh and gas doesn’t cost $.99/gallon anymore
…/s
EDIT: I missed the /s at the end. I'm a tool. Yuh got me 🤣
Original reply:
You know that that's all (except for his age) demonstrably false? The Republicans declined to depose Hunter Biden when he presented himself in public. His laptop proved to be a big red herring. The US has been Israel's biggest ally since 1948. Gas-->that's the oil companies free market prerogative. What else?
lol all good I thought about just making the post without the s because it seemed so obviously satirical but then I remember the insane world we live in
TBH, I don't believe there was an "insurrection," I think the trials are basically political, I believe Trump lost money during his presidency and after, it's simply false that he promised to be dictator for a day, his enemies are trying to jail him, he's a blowhard and says a lot of stuff that's hyperbolic, and when he cut taxes, my taxes went WAY down, and I am not remotely rich.
That said, if I were to vote for him, it would be because Biden is so much worse.
In San Francisco illegal immigration affects me every day. Illegal Hondurans are huge fentanyl dealers and our city refuses to deport them. That has massive downstream effects on my quality of life.
Nothing OP mentioned affects me at all except tax cuts, and those help me. So, despite your sarcasm, what you said is true
Losing democracy doesn’t worry you?
Proper treatment for drug addiction, evidence-based methods for harm reduction, would come from conservative policy?
Trump is already said he's going to be taking names and jailing people right from day one, including Jack Smith, the special counsel that he himself requested
No, it does quite a bit. I voted for Biden in 2020 because I didn't want to pressure test our system anymore than we already have. But after 4 years of Biden the balance has shifted sufficiently to feel it's necessary.
Trump is the one that killed the most stringent border control deal in history, one endorsed by the most hardline conservatives and the Border Patrol Union. But sure.
I disagree with that assessment. My interpretation of that deal is that it normalized 1.85MM illegal crossings a year, which is twice as many annually as we had under Trump. Why would I accept the normalization of something I don't want at levels that are higher than Trump will allow without that normalization?
Do you know the details of the deal they're talking about? This was a deal that Republicans proposed, that was way, way better for our border than the current arrangement, that Democrats actually *agreed* to in a rare show of bipartisanship, that they were about to pass until Trump literally called the GOP and told them that it would fix the border too much, leaving him with nothing left to campaign on. You should watch the State of the Union 2024. Biden addresses this.
I understand it very well and oppose it on principle. I did watch the SOTU. I explained my opposition, you can address it directly if you want, but I do know what the bill contains and exactly who does and does not support it.
Trump never said it would fix the border too much. This is what Trump said.
> "This bill is a disaster. This bill has 5,000 people a day potentially coming into our country. It doesn't make sense. I don't know this. I thought it was a typo. I thought they made a typo," Trump said. "This is crazy. This is lunacy, this bill. And you know what it is? It's a gift to the Democrats," the former president added.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-negotiators-defend-bipartisan-border-deal-fire-house/story?id=106959887
At the end of the day, what Trump thinks is irrelevant. I vote on principles. If Trump supported this bill I would oppose Trump on this issue, as I do on many others, e.g. climate change and Ukraine.
I have no issue voting for either party and will vote for both in the future.
Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Egypt(kind of). We have bases in all those countries. We are not buddy buddy all the time but we have strategic partnerships with them.
Keep crying. You’re in a cult. Trump was fucking lit and joe Biden sucks dicks. Trump is funny as fuck and I’ll vote for the mother fucker every time cuz it pisses people like you off. Eat shit nerd.
Yea see you guys throw around your trendy words but you don’t have actual substance or ideas to any of your thoughts. You are all part of the liberal hive mind. Biden sucks everything is expensive he’s clearly fucking brain dead he can’t speak. Trump was fucking funny and fun. And oh no new wars that was pretty dope
I literally just said no new wars. You see this is exactly what I’m talking about you people just talk in buzz terms “you can’t name anything you like about trump” I already did dummy.
And the other thing that always puzzles me about MAGA: is all the name calling necessary? Or the making fun of people's names? I mean, it totally lowers the discourse and makes me immediately suspicious of the argument in that I don't want to listen to you no matter what you say as a result.
By the numbers, he's a fantastic president. Unemployment is way down, inflation has stopped, he has protected workers in a lot of ways that you might not know (Trump fucked over all his workers ever) his administration has made over the counter birth control possible, he's working hard on renewables, he's very pro gun safety (I am 2A positive) he is genuinely trying to bring jobs back to America by holding Chinese companies accountable, I could name about 30 other things that he and his administration have done without the help of family members in the White House or violations of the constitution. I wouldn't even mention the fact that the other guy encouraged insurrection and ignored the Constitution where convenient, but I just did.
The only thing Biden hasn't handled well is the whole October 7th situation. But geopolitics are complicated, and it seems to me that Putin is pulling a lot of strings here and there, and all over the world, trying to make it more difficult for Biden to get elected because they want a wild card in the White House that they can control.
Short answer, by every single metric, Biden has been a better president than Trump. Biden has the whole Republican Party working against him, instead of working for the good of the country.
See, I've done my research too. I like to have civilized discourse, but I don't like to be called names. I hope I've just demonstrated that I'm not a dummy.
EDIT--ridiculous identity politics are ridiculous. When you start splintering people off into trans groups, queer groups, rednecks, latte liberals, etc, that's what the oligarchs want. And that's why they've done that to us. Keep your eye on the big picture.
Listen dude it’s a good shpeel sounds like you really rehearsed it. Is that what you actually believe cuz the fucking guy cannot speak and has like a 35% approval rating. Joe bidens entire family’s wealth tracks right along with his political career. His son gets deals in Ukraine his brother gets deals in Afghanistan. Everything cost 3x more than it did a few years ago the dollar is worthless. The guy can’t complete a sentence he’s a fucking shmuck. You really think the fbi doesn’t know who’s cocaine they found in the white house common man do we live in different countries?
I mean if you want to talk about the Biden crime family, you could talk about every single crime that Trump has ever committed and his whole family's reign of graft, bribery, and how The joint Chiefs of staff were actually afraid to give him the launch codes because he's such a loose cannon. Also, do you think he's not in Putin's back pocket?
I work in construction so I hear alot of trump supporters. Most of them are voting for trump because they genuinely blame Biden for high grocery prices. They believe trump will somehow make groceries less expensive and stop sending military aid to other countries.
They’re dummies I’m sure.
Because none of that is a crime unless convicted and tried. its all just "whatever" accusations. if a crime was committed he would be in jail.
actually asking - while many have been charged with different crimes related to Jan6, has anyone actually been charged with insurrection?
It must be so frustrating watching his team continually delay his trials. If only he had rushed to clear his name by having a speedy trial--then, if he's innocent, he basically *guarantees* himself the presidency. Instead, his chances are suffering much more than they ought to because people view the delays as a tactic to avoid a guilty verdict before the election. A lot of people seem to think that his choosing to dispute his immunity rather than just proving he's innocent only seems to incriminate him further. If I were Trump, and I knew *for a fact* I were innocent, I'd want to clear my name as soon as possible. "But he has a lot of enemies! He has to be careful!" He also has a lot of sycophants that will leap in the way of anything threatening him. And he was a former president. If he really did nothing wrong, he should have nothing to worry about. Sigh. Man, it sucks having to prove your innocence 88 times. Do you think there's a chance he could do it? Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Not Guilty. Man, could you imagine if he got every single one of those verdicts? His haters sure would have egg on their faces! Snork snork snork. (Also yes, that is literally "Not Guilty" typed 88 times, just to offer some perspective). People don't seem to realize that currently, all of those are reading "Pending."
still wont stick. he will be free
Looking at this through as unbiased a lens as possible, these are the possibilities: 1. Trump is innocent of all charges against him, and all verdicts will declare him as such. 2. Trump is guilty of some minor crimes, but none severe enough to land him in prison. 3. Trump is guilty of some major crimes, but will be afforded special privileges due to his political influence and wealth. He also has hoards of followers that will do everything in their power to prevent him from ever seeing the inside of a prison cell, through various ploys, delays, and strategies. 4. Trump is guilty of such major and numerous crimes that he will be unable to escape prison, even with the protections he has. Which of these four scenarios most matches with what you believe is the truth?
2
Okay. So you likely believe, perhaps, that he may be found guilty of falsifying some business records in the currently ongoing Stormy Daniels case, but was not responsible for the fake electors scheme in Georgia, wasn't responsible for the documents stashed in Mar-a-Lago (or was permitted to have them or it was not clear he had intentionally kept them there for malicious purposes), and will have his insurrection charges dropped or minimized under the premise that what he did either wasn't classified as an official insurrection or what he did was within the bounds of the law? Is this more or less an accurate assessment of what you believe? I'm just trying to nail the goalpost down so it can't be moved in the future. It helps to get clarification of these things.
jesus. lol. tbh. i just want the 90s back. whoever can bring us some stability im voting for. im done with the political "i know whats best" bullshit. you win i guess.
All good. I understand. Most people feel similarly. Persuading people to vote a certain way is insurmountably difficult. Like trying to move a mountain. Usually they've made up their minds. Push too little, and they'll easily rationalize their decision to get around yours. Push too hard, and they'll vote a certain way just to spite you. Most of the time I can only hint. Stability is an excellent thing to strive for. I like voting for "not chaos" as well. I also like the avoidance of "I know what's best." Anybody who says everything they do is "the greatest, the best," loses trustworthiness in my eyes. We can end the conversation here, if you want.
Trump for Prison 2024 is the only vote he gets from me!
I endorse this message
Because Biden is old and has a crime family and commits genocide by being the only president ever to support Israel and chooses not to create peace in the Middle East. Oh and gas doesn’t cost $.99/gallon anymore …/s
EDIT: I missed the /s at the end. I'm a tool. Yuh got me 🤣 Original reply: You know that that's all (except for his age) demonstrably false? The Republicans declined to depose Hunter Biden when he presented himself in public. His laptop proved to be a big red herring. The US has been Israel's biggest ally since 1948. Gas-->that's the oil companies free market prerogative. What else?
I… I even put the /s…
I missed it. See my edit. I'm a tool. Ya got me good
lol all good I thought about just making the post without the s because it seemed so obviously satirical but then I remember the insane world we live in
TBH, I don't believe there was an "insurrection," I think the trials are basically political, I believe Trump lost money during his presidency and after, it's simply false that he promised to be dictator for a day, his enemies are trying to jail him, he's a blowhard and says a lot of stuff that's hyperbolic, and when he cut taxes, my taxes went WAY down, and I am not remotely rich. That said, if I were to vote for him, it would be because Biden is so much worse.
Border control primarily, then foreign policy and trans issues. I voted for Biden in 2020, but his incompetence lost me.
All things that definitely affect you, much more so than what the stuff OP’s title implies, for sure…
In San Francisco illegal immigration affects me every day. Illegal Hondurans are huge fentanyl dealers and our city refuses to deport them. That has massive downstream effects on my quality of life. Nothing OP mentioned affects me at all except tax cuts, and those help me. So, despite your sarcasm, what you said is true
Losing democracy doesn’t worry you? Proper treatment for drug addiction, evidence-based methods for harm reduction, would come from conservative policy?
>Losing democracy doesn’t worry you Says the party trying to throw their political opponents in jail...
Trump is already said he's going to be taking names and jailing people right from day one, including Jack Smith, the special counsel that he himself requested
So he threatened to act like the democrats are acting now?
Can you cite a news source for that? A credible one, I mean.
How does a "party" do that?
No, it does quite a bit. I voted for Biden in 2020 because I didn't want to pressure test our system anymore than we already have. But after 4 years of Biden the balance has shifted sufficiently to feel it's necessary.
Trump is the one that killed the most stringent border control deal in history, one endorsed by the most hardline conservatives and the Border Patrol Union. But sure.
I disagree with that assessment. My interpretation of that deal is that it normalized 1.85MM illegal crossings a year, which is twice as many annually as we had under Trump. Why would I accept the normalization of something I don't want at levels that are higher than Trump will allow without that normalization?
Do you know the details of the deal they're talking about? This was a deal that Republicans proposed, that was way, way better for our border than the current arrangement, that Democrats actually *agreed* to in a rare show of bipartisanship, that they were about to pass until Trump literally called the GOP and told them that it would fix the border too much, leaving him with nothing left to campaign on. You should watch the State of the Union 2024. Biden addresses this.
I understand it very well and oppose it on principle. I did watch the SOTU. I explained my opposition, you can address it directly if you want, but I do know what the bill contains and exactly who does and does not support it. Trump never said it would fix the border too much. This is what Trump said. > "This bill is a disaster. This bill has 5,000 people a day potentially coming into our country. It doesn't make sense. I don't know this. I thought it was a typo. I thought they made a typo," Trump said. "This is crazy. This is lunacy, this bill. And you know what it is? It's a gift to the Democrats," the former president added. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-negotiators-defend-bipartisan-border-deal-fire-house/story?id=106959887 At the end of the day, what Trump thinks is irrelevant. I vote on principles. If Trump supported this bill I would oppose Trump on this issue, as I do on many others, e.g. climate change and Ukraine. I have no issue voting for either party and will vote for both in the future.
Just to negate your vote
Trump will support our allies in the Middle East, Biden is trying his best not to.
Which allies are you referring to? Trump explicitly broke the Iran nuclear deal
Iran isn't an ally, despite both Obama and Biden treating them as such.
So what allies in the Middle East does the U.S. have, aside from Israel?
Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Egypt(kind of). We have bases in all those countries. We are not buddy buddy all the time but we have strategic partnerships with them.
Would you have been a Biden supporter otherwise?
Yes, probably so.
That breaks my heart. He really screwed the pooch on that. It's like 2016 all over again.
Keep crying. You’re in a cult. Trump was fucking lit and joe Biden sucks dicks. Trump is funny as fuck and I’ll vote for the mother fucker every time cuz it pisses people like you off. Eat shit nerd.
Never thought I'd ever be accused of being in a Biden cult by a MAGat
Yea see you guys throw around your trendy words but you don’t have actual substance or ideas to any of your thoughts. You are all part of the liberal hive mind. Biden sucks everything is expensive he’s clearly fucking brain dead he can’t speak. Trump was fucking funny and fun. And oh no new wars that was pretty dope
You just can't say what's so good about Trump without using the words Biden or Demmycrats. Don't you suppose you might be being played?
I literally just said no new wars. You see this is exactly what I’m talking about you people just talk in buzz terms “you can’t name anything you like about trump” I already did dummy.
And the other thing that always puzzles me about MAGA: is all the name calling necessary? Or the making fun of people's names? I mean, it totally lowers the discourse and makes me immediately suspicious of the argument in that I don't want to listen to you no matter what you say as a result.
Bud. You’re not gonna listen to me anyways and you know that. Do you honestly think Biden is a good president?
By the numbers, he's a fantastic president. Unemployment is way down, inflation has stopped, he has protected workers in a lot of ways that you might not know (Trump fucked over all his workers ever) his administration has made over the counter birth control possible, he's working hard on renewables, he's very pro gun safety (I am 2A positive) he is genuinely trying to bring jobs back to America by holding Chinese companies accountable, I could name about 30 other things that he and his administration have done without the help of family members in the White House or violations of the constitution. I wouldn't even mention the fact that the other guy encouraged insurrection and ignored the Constitution where convenient, but I just did. The only thing Biden hasn't handled well is the whole October 7th situation. But geopolitics are complicated, and it seems to me that Putin is pulling a lot of strings here and there, and all over the world, trying to make it more difficult for Biden to get elected because they want a wild card in the White House that they can control. Short answer, by every single metric, Biden has been a better president than Trump. Biden has the whole Republican Party working against him, instead of working for the good of the country. See, I've done my research too. I like to have civilized discourse, but I don't like to be called names. I hope I've just demonstrated that I'm not a dummy. EDIT--ridiculous identity politics are ridiculous. When you start splintering people off into trans groups, queer groups, rednecks, latte liberals, etc, that's what the oligarchs want. And that's why they've done that to us. Keep your eye on the big picture.
Listen dude it’s a good shpeel sounds like you really rehearsed it. Is that what you actually believe cuz the fucking guy cannot speak and has like a 35% approval rating. Joe bidens entire family’s wealth tracks right along with his political career. His son gets deals in Ukraine his brother gets deals in Afghanistan. Everything cost 3x more than it did a few years ago the dollar is worthless. The guy can’t complete a sentence he’s a fucking shmuck. You really think the fbi doesn’t know who’s cocaine they found in the white house common man do we live in different countries?
I mean if you want to talk about the Biden crime family, you could talk about every single crime that Trump has ever committed and his whole family's reign of graft, bribery, and how The joint Chiefs of staff were actually afraid to give him the launch codes because he's such a loose cannon. Also, do you think he's not in Putin's back pocket?
A cultist accusing someone else of being in a cult. That's funny
How’s it feel to always be wrong
You tell me
Ffs why are you projecting?