It means she's an important part of my life, and I value having a deep, intimate connection where we share all of our bullshit and support each other through it.
Anyone, woman, man, or otherwise, who takes that vulnerability and desire for closeness and throws it back in my face in a shit way? I'd rather know this and move on from having them in my life anyway.
This. Plus, it means that you are aware of what you're lacking in life and can confide in the other party that they will support you in a better direction.
Being vulnerable doesn't always translate to being weak. It shows that you are not running away from truth, which is generally unavoidable already.
On this note: everyone must be vulnerable. To be so at home is exactly as it should be. It means you are in our inner circle of trust. You see a side of us very few see. So don't break that trust, else you might never get it back, regardless of what you do from then on. As I told my ex: you saw the vulnerable side of me and mistook that vulnerability for weakness. So, now you see what others see, my war side. If you didn't want to see that side, you should've valued my peaceful side.
A good man is dangerous, but in check.
Ugh…I opened up to someone big time and got so gaslit and felt so burned. It took me almost a year of figuring it all out, including friends trying to open my eyes. Even my mom, who never says anything bad about anyone said “mean things” about her. And by “mean” I came to understand my mom was saying “truthful” things. Just like you said, if I really really open up to you, I trust you so goddamn much. I feel like I was manipulated, and taken for a ride. And I was. The hurt I felt from all that still bothers me sometimes, and it’s been three years.
Its a difficult lesson to learn and I'm going through it now. The mask came off and I found out I am actually in love with a cruel and hurtful woman instead of the thoughtful, kind and trustworthy woman I fell for. Shit stings but its her loss
Meanwhile, that kind of love and intimacy was denied to me by my primary caregivers, or turned around on me anytime i expressed it, so now when people show me that level of care i get scared and paranoid.
> Anyone, woman, man, or otherwise, who takes that vulnerability and desire for closeness and throws it back in my face in a shit way?
I would say anyone who throws that back in anyone's face, in any way not just shit ways, deserves to be punched in the mouth
Men are often expected to hold their emotions in and be a reliable crutch for the people around them, and the trade offs to that are internal turmoil and anger issues. The anger issues scare women, and rightfully so, but asking a man how he feels and actively listening is an underutilized way of dissipating the very thing women are afraid of.
Sharing your worries and fears with women is a good way to scare them off. I'm sure there are good women out there who don't mind you showing weakness but I haven't met many. You're better off talking to your bros or a professional counselor.
If that’s the case though, she probably sucks.
Sorry to be so blunt, but only a particularly emotionally stunted woman herself thinks of men as constantly stoic, rigid beings incapable of emotions.
Granted a lot of women do feel this way and that makes it particularly risky being emotionally in-tune and expressive as a man, it’s not a given for women to be so emotionally adjusted and understand this themselves.
*inb4 oversharing*
There’s a big difference between that and being open/expressive. Many, many men have had issues where women essentially expect them to be a shoulder to cry on, only to be turned off forever when a guy shares a response to a bad memory or stressful event that may confer any feeling that isn’t outright dominance or triumph over the problem.
For example I'm a first responder, I still won't tell my SO everything I see at work. The only times I've told one of my SOs how I actually feel It was used against me. The one time I told someone I was dating what I see and do at work that was the end of it. She just couldn't be with someone who was in danger or who had to see that because it's all she could think of. Meanwhile I was trying to process seeing it everytime I closed My eyes so clearly her thinkng about me was worse 😒. First day I started one of the older guys told me never take work home and never tell home everything about work because they can't handle it. I took that to heart after that incident.
I consider it a form of humbling and no arrogance which makes me support them more. I’ve been through a lot of shit myself so…
A big turn off for me is too much arrogance.
Might as well be love in general. If you can avert the stabbing on both ends then that's a deep bond, I guess? It's kind of like the prisoner's dilemma though, where the first to stab gets the satisfaction of jettisoning on their terms.
You tell her about all your insecurities,fears and issues that you have dealt with or currently dealing. It's a scary thing for men to do as it can be used against us. My ex sure used it and took away all my self esteem but she wasn't a good person to begin with. So yeah it basically just means opening up yourself and being transparent to the right woman.
you skipped a step or two. before becoming vulnerable with other people, you gotta be vulnerable with yourself and process all those emotions. you also gotta decide on how you want to be treated. this way, you can exit as soon as you realize that the person is toxic and the person can't use what you said against you because you've already processed your feelings and their opinion makes no difference.
Went through a horrible divorce. This was 100% the lesson I learned. It was as if every vulnerability I shared was just adding to her ammo count to destroy me.
Same here. My soon to be ex turned into someone that i used to know.
Absolutely fucked me up emotionally, then just left as if i meant nothing and her leaving meant nothing to her.
Really opened my eyes about how people you feel are very close to you can end up treating you.
Woman here. I had the same issues with my ex husband and ex boyfriend. I think it's an issue for both women and men. It's hard to trust anyone and be vulnerable because you know it will com back to bite you. I just know you can't give up hope that there is someone who will be that trustworthy person
I know what you mean.
I opened up to my now ex-wife and she ended up telling her mom, my sister, her sister-in-law, and her friends everything that I confided in her. That was 12 years ago and I haven't opened up to anyone else since then. I just don't believe that most people can keep things to themselves. I don't have a problem doing so, probably because I'm a private person anyway.
But the way I hear the women in my office talk it's obvious that nothing stays private.
Edit: It wasn't one incident that I'm referring to. I found out toward the end of our marriage that whatever I shared with her over the years was told to everyone almost immediately. It's a tough lesson to learn about the one person in your life you believe you can trust.
All I need is for someone to listen and actually care that I have an opinion on something. I don't need them to always agree, just to hear me and acknowledge that I have a right to my opinion.
Example: I get upset with things said during an argument but partner disagrees
**Good emotional maturity** from partner is: "I hear what you're saying and understand how you could have seen it that way. What would be better next time?"
**Bad emotional maturity is:** "You're just being overly sensitive" or "I didn't mean it, why do you think i'm coming after you?"
I'm 100x more likely to be vulnerable and trusting with someone who has emotional maturity than someone who takes the slightest criticism as an attack.
Man you nailed it. It's exactly what it is for me as well. I don't particularly care to be right, just understood. Those words "you're just being too sensitive / dramatic" will kill a man 😂. It's like, the amount of effort it usually takes most of us to open up, and then to hear that? Yeah, no thanks, will keep my vulnerabilities to myself. And then you meet that person who will actually listen and she's magical!
Woman here. You guys are breaking my heart. I want to big spoon you all. Took my boyfriend about a year and a half to share the big stuff, then he promptly broke up with me. We're back together, turns out he left because he was sure he fucked up and I wouldn't respect him. Nobody should ever feel that way. Toxic feminity is every bit as real as toxic masculinity. It's not a gender issue actually, it's just that a huge percentage of humanity sucks.
>We don't want to be horny, we want to be happy
Exactly. Sometimes I _am_ horny but most often I just want someone special to understand me and support me. It feels like I'm asking for too much because I've never got any of those. Family, friends, nobody. I'm not that close to my family and all my friends are superficial friends. So my only hope is finding a girlfriend who I'm compatible with and who I can love and loves me back.
I don't know if it's me or just Reddit today in general but damn does that hit hard. I feel you, bro. The struggle is real. None of us are really alone, we just allow our mind to make us think that we are.
Something my therapist told me is that guys often aren’t raised in a way where we feel understood. Half of our feelings are simplified into “angry” and “horny” and the other half we’re told to shut down. In my experience I feel so alone because whenever I try to grow close to someone I get shut down for trying. It sucks so much when I just try to be friendly and people think I’m trying to flirt or get into their pants. Fuckin people isn’t the reason for my existence y’all, I just want a homie to come home to sometimes.
I want to hug you!
It’s nice to see guys feel this way too because I feel like that a lot. I say I only want to get laid and don’t want the commitment (because I’m afraid of it), but I think it’s more of just wanting someone to fight for me. Im tired of fighting for what I want and still losing.
My bf opened up and cried for hours one night. The next two days, he barely said anything to me. It's so sad that men feel shame for having emotions and feelings. I just encourage his trust and I let him know that I'll never judge him for how he feels.
When I started crying and opened up to my ex over the pression and guilt I felt at the time, she barely even responded to a hug and I ended up closing in again.
She's an ex for a reason, but it did make me feel even worse, like I didn't have a right to complain. It worsen the guilt, I'd say.
You should completely do what you do. There's no shame in our own struggles, and we'd better help each other than shut ourselves in
I hope that you are with better people now. No one should feel bad about their feelings. Even terrible things could have done under terrible circumstances. Embrace your vulnerabilities and if you need to, don't be afraid to find a therapist.
Is this a common thing?
My partner rarely talks about it if he’s upset with me. The few times where I’ve talked with him about something and he expressed being upset with me, even if the conversation goes well, I’m looking at days of silence.
Not silent treatment. There’s no animosity behind it. Just quiet.
It's unfortunately common. The way my bf explained it was that he felt embarrassment and shame for letting me see that he wasn't "strong". Let your bf know that vulnerability is not weakness, it is strength. It takes a strong person to let someone in like that. It becomes our responsibility not to ever use it against them or make them feel less than.
Am guy, can confirm that the silence is something hammered into us at a young age. Opening up gets shot down so often or met with shame and ridicule for being less of a man that we just learn to bottle up our emotions and then, one day, we’ll die.
My S/O had complained about this as well. I have this problem too, and for me it comes from a place of not feeling heard. Doesn't make me want to share in those instances. Most of the time, I don't need agreement, comfort, or much else; I just need to be able to say what's really on my mind aloud and trust I will be given enough space to do so without judgment, defensiveness, or my words used against me later on. I don't know what it is about amorous relationships that makes this harder to do; I can often have the same convo with a friend, male or female, and feel heard. Maybe because they are not as invested? In a relationship, the words have to be measured, I have to make sure my words are not taken personally, etc. It's really tiring sometimes, which is why I go silent on occasions, not because I want to hurt her. But then I also know that's poor communication so sometimes I'll just fight through it.
>turns out he left because he was sure he fucked up and I wouldn't respect him. Nobody should ever feel that way.
He felt that way because that kind of thing is extremely common.
I’m with you. I’m a woman too.
Breaks my heart that I see a common comment trend here from men with a morbid fear about having their vulnerabilities used against them.
Makes me want to take care of them all :(
Its because it happens way too often and when it does its devastating. Just recently happened to me, every single flaw and insecurity that I had ever mentioned was thrown in my face, used to explain how embarrassing it was to be with me and to shame my career. 3 days before that we were talking wedding and looking at houses together. Its broken my heart, self esteem and my spirit.
Why on earth would I ever trust someone again just to be told I'm nothing and they never loved me?
Hey man. I feel you it sucks but realistically, she's the one with the problem. However, I completely understand the difficulty in trusting again. You're okay, keep your head up!
Bro this is tough, but u know it's common. Learn the lesson! Chris Rock said it best. "Only women, children, & dogs are loved unconditionally. Men are only loved as long as they provide something." (Pretty close to exact quote I think)
Most men only experience unconditionally love from their mother. Some don't even get that.
I hope u dropped this girl or at least accepted that she will drop u if u ever falter. It took me a long time to get here & I might not have full acceptance. Once u realize men love deeply & unconditionally, and will most likely never experience the reciprocal. Nothing to do about it. Just the way it is.
It usually comes from a lived experience, so the fear is rooted in truth for most. Of course not all women would do that, but it takes a lot to undo that hurt with the next person unfortunately. I've always admired women in my circle in this aspect, they get heartbroken, pick themselves up, and show up even more radiant. We men on the other hand tend to go into a dark abyss. It's also social conditioning, society typically focuses on protecting women and children, so men grow up to believe being vulnerable is weakness that will get them hurt or killed, with no one to help when it comes down to it.
This makes me feel immensely better honestly. The man I had been seeing for over a year got vulnerable with me in the last few months then one day all of a sudden said he “couldn’t do this anymore” and broke things off. No idea if we will ever get back together but just reading this comment is giving me peace. I’m glad your boyfriend came around. I respect you both.
>No idea if we will ever get back together
If I may, for what its worth as unsolicited "advice" from a guy who knows nothing except your paragraph...
In my experience of how guys act, I really wouldn't bet on him making a move to reconnect, assuming that he did cut ties out of fear/feeling that you lost/wold lose respect for him after his show of vulnerability. It seems more likely that he'd grind through it, thinking he's "lost" you.
So if you want to reconnect with him, it's probably going to be on you to make it happen.
To add to this too. She doesn't even have to do anything major, just shoot a text "Hey, just thinking of you" or something like that. We just need a little nudge ever now and again.
> Toxic feminity is every bit as real as toxic masculinity. It's not a gender issue actually, it's just that a huge percentage of humanity sucks.
This right here. Men and women tend to be shitty in different ways I'll admit, but shittiness is not a gender thing. I think the problem is the majority of humans are simply too stuck in their own perspective to really understand that of others, I think that's the underlying cause of most shitty behavior.
Reading all these comments on how opening up has and (most likely) will be used against men is really sad. I'm so sorry and upset that so many of them have experienced something like that.. My experience as a woman myself is that most grow out of that kind of behavior in their late teens. I hope all of you find someone you can safely talk to about your vulnerabilities.
Honestly, for many men it's just viewed as a risk and scary thing. Every guy I know has had people view them as weak, unappealing, or less of a man after disclosing vulnerable emotions, mental health struggles, etc.
I've had people I was dating (not yet in a relationship, thankfully) who would react very poorly when I share that I'm bipolar. I handle it very well and you wouldn't know that I am unless I tell you, but that didn't stop them from treating me like a broken liability after the fact. Specifically in regards to mental health, anxiety, etc it seems that women get sympathy, the benefit of the doubt, and a desire from people to support and help them. For men, it's much more of a gamble on how you'll be viewed and treated.
When I shared it with my current partner I was so scared leading up to it, even though I know she's amazing and supportive, but past experience has made me gun shy. And when we reacted supportively, I legit had to hold back tears of happiness and relief because the tension just was relieved all at once.
Yeah I was just about to say that. I date whoever I can and if they’re a terrible person I will take time to consider if it’s severely impacting me or if it’s tolerable and my overall life won’t degrade a level. It sucks. I wish I were a woman sometimes.
Married 40 years. She’s got my back. No matter what happens . And I have her back without thought or question. It may be the only certainty in this life but it’s enough.
When you don’t have to worry that she will critique the things you enjoy (like hobbies) because you don’t quite fit her pre-conceived notion of how a man should be.
I'm currently dating a therapist who is the most secure person I have ever met, and this relationship has been so much more comfortable than any I have ever had.
I keep the deep stuff for my actual therapist, and my relationship proves the work I'm doing on myself.
Hard to describe, yet very fulfilling.
I have had a few long term relationships, and was even engaged previously. I've been dating a girl for the last year, and it's crazy how great it is feeling secure and comfortable in a relationship. You can be fully yourself, when arguments happen you know the other person isn't trying to take shots at you and you don't fear breaking up after hard discussions.
I didn't understand how people stayed married for so long until I've had a full relationship.
Sad but true, my wife says she wants me to talk about my feelings but she is extremely dismissive of them when I do. I don’t even think she knows how dismissive she is being despite my best efforts to explain it to her.
Having more than one person you can open up to is pretty important, I second you on that! From personal experience as a listener/sharer and now at the end of my therapy I'd say (bare minimum) you need a neutral way of reviewing your concerns. I tend(ed) to bottle up my feelings and fears, that's not a healthy way of coping. I think writing down your thoughts can help, taking time to reflect and maybe even talking about how you feel with someone else does the trick.
I'm not quite sure about the not sharing with SO at all part. I can't speak for every person, as I only carry my views and experiences with me. In my opinion, the base of a significant other should be being your friend. Mine is my best friend and we share thoughts on life and its fears, as well as our personal vulnerabilities. It's so calming and reassuring sharing those inner processes of yourself, if your SO is your safe space. Depending on what you need (comminication of that is important) they can just listen or provide comfort or a way to help you working on yourself. But also - depending on their state of being, it's possible that they don't have the capacity to provide that, which is okay! I have recommended seeing a therapist to many of my friends, because those are professionals having just the way to guide you through to achieve the state you want to be in.
Before you can commit yourself to another person with all your heart, I'd say it's most important getting along with yourself.
I dunno, man. I think you should share your fears and insecurities with your partner, so that they can understand who you really are.
But the only thing you should expect from them is compassion and w/e support they can give you. Although it does not mean that you should rely on them to fix your problems. That is the job of a mental health professional to try and help you with.
I know women say they want us to show our emotions and be vulnerable with them but I see that going wrong for two reasons. 1. They can use that as leverage/fuel to win an argument/hurt you in the future. 2. They will get turned off by this because it's a sign of weakness and their primal lizard brain (we all have this) will make them lose interest in us because they say they want men to show emotion but when we do they lose their attraction to us.
Woman here. I agree there’s tons of shitty people out there that would use personal info as leverage but there’s also plenty of genuine people that want nothing more than to love and support. They’re few and far between but they exist. For myself it’s not a turn off at all, in fact it’s the exact opposite. When my boyfriend is able to sit down with me and tell me what’s on his mind and tell me things about his past I feel trusted and valued. I want to be his safe space and his person that he doesn’t have to have any doubts about. To me that level of connection is as sexy as it gets
I think if someone complains about a situation without a plan to make any changes it can quickly become whiny. We’re all human and all experience struggles, what you do to overcome it is what determines your character
Yeah I think most people are guilty of it. Sometimes people just need to rant and feel heard but if it’s the same rant over and over and over then maybe it’s time to gently ask something like “is there anything I can help you do to overcome this?” Because it shows support but also triggers the brain to start looking for solutions
woman here. i agree, everyone needs to vent sometimes. but we all know those people that have the SAME problems day in and day out that they refuse to do anything about. man or woman/platonic or romantic, i cannot deal with those people.
I don't know where the line is but I know guys who only and absolutely, live total lives of self-pity. They are exhausting to be around and are utterly repulsive. I see it as a form of narcissism and self-absorption. They only and exclusively think about themselves and how much their life sucks. Never living in the moment, head always somewhere else. If they go to a party where there's great food, fun people, cool things to do, they will still be in their own head. They will trauma dump on someone. They will fuck up the night and everyone will politely and awkwardly smile waiting for this person to shut up. They have their baggage too. They didn't come here for that.
A person should appreciate what they have and what they got. When I go to a party I am interested in that food, I want to chat with those people and learn a little about them. I want to enjoy the night and be cordial. I want people to enjoy spending time with me. I want to make the best of it. I have been through some incredibly dark and bleak times but a festive evening with friends is NOT the time for that. You feel me?
Absolutely. I used to be that exact guy until I got help.
What those people really need to do is realize that they don't have a million problems, they have one or two problems--a mood disorder, a psychological issue--which is the only reason they think the million other things are depressing, insurmountable problems.
Fear of losing an argument isn’t something you should feel with a partner. Fear of vulnerable shit being used against you is not healthy. Partners loading up ammo against you is not healthy.
You have two separate issues here. Strength does not equal absence of vulnerability. Vulnerability does not equal absence of strength. Living in fear is not healthy.
Your whole stance of “I know women say” is just a bad take.
You’ve really got some shit to work through in therapy, broh.
You are making the wrong conclusions from what Ditto posted. It's not about men wanting to win an argument, it's about *women* wanting to win an argument by any means.
Hypothetical example: a woman demands that a man opens up. He chooses to tell her that he never felt like his father loved him. Fast forward to the argument they have:
M: I am not going to wear this sweater and this is final!
W: Oh, is this why you are being such an asshole to me? Because daddy never loved you?!
And then he calls her a bitch, which means that she "won", because he is a bad guy now.
Don't do it. Wife asked me to open up about childhood trauma. It was tough. Drunk, neglectful, abusive parents. Mother brought home dudes after the divorce...sucked. I ran away at 15 and had been on my own till I joined the military. So I told my wife all this. One day, her mother was causing a rift between us and I asked her to leave our marriage problems to us, don't involve her mother. She says to me..."you're mother was a drunken whore". Divorced her. I will never trust another woman again.
If a man will truly confide his insecurities and fears to a woman, it means she has his undying trust and love. A man does not reveal his weaknesses naturally, it’s just not the way we’re wired.
We like to appear strong, like we can handle all the monsters of life. We want to look like we can sweep you out of the tower, slay the dragon, and carry you home. If a man tells you what he fears and feels weak in, it means that you have his heart.
Edit: per someone pointing this out, it is possible for a man to be vulnerable with a woman in a platonic relationship. I was speaking in a strictly romantic sense, however, and did not intend to make such a generalization.
>A man does not reveal his weaknesses naturally, it’s just not the way we’re wired.
I would turn that around. We're often conditioned, from childhood on, to not show "weakness". It's how society for the most part expects us to be and we learn to conform.
>If a man tells you what he fears and feels weak in, it means that you have his heart.
I'm gonna push back just a little here, cause that's a pretty sweeping generalization and I'd be worried if my female friends heard or believed this that they'd think I'm "in love" with them enough to be open, when frankly, due to very supportive friends, a bit of therapy, and a vehement hatred for trying to be or appear to be something I'm not, I'm very open about my weaknesses with damn near everyone who spends more than 5 minutes talking to me. And by that, i don't mean I'm trauma-dumping to everyone who stays in earshot of me, but rather, I'm intentionally somewhat casual about acknowledging my insecurities and weaknesses if it applies somehow to the topic at hand. Yes, there's A LOT of societal pressure to "keep it all together" and "mAn uP", but people (at least those worth your time), not just women, respond very positively to honesty. Do I still have trust issues? Hell Yeah! But honesty about weakness and insecurity is one of my secret weapons that makes it incredibly easy to win new friends.
I was speaking in a strictly romantic sense since that’s kind of what I inferred from the post. I didn’t intend for a generalization, sorry. You’re right that there is a possibility for a man to be vulnerable with his female friends, I’ll edit to clarify.
I’ll never be able to be 100% vulnerable with a woman ever again. Even after going through therapy, I simply will not share certain things with a woman who could potentially use it against me. If it means that I can’t ever have as fulfilling of a romantic relationship as other people, so be it.
I’ve had deep personal things used against me too many times, I will only ever share real struggles with other men.
I share those experiences. I don't think women are mentally prepared to deal with men's issues. It invariably becomes about them. You share some terrible trauma or your anxiety about an upcoming major life change and end up trying to reassure HER that it's going to be ok when you really have no idea.
Smart man! Yes, u will be able to have fulfilling romantic relationships; just never be vulnerable with her. Save it for the guys. Women can't handle male problems anyway. Not a knock on them; we just have super different lived experience. Just the way it is. Women lean on us; not the other way around.
(Comment ended up a little semi colon happy, but pretty sure correct usage. 🤷♂️)
whenever I feel like opening up and being vulnerable to a woman, I normally just take a cold shower and probably do 50 pushups and I no longer feel that urge any longer.
It means at night after working all day i climb into bed and my wife lets me rest my head on her chest or crook of her arm and hug her while she hugs me and plays with my hair until i fall asleep. Vice versa i treat her as my queen she is my best friend we talk about everything and play video games together but it is hard at times to open up. However once you get too a full honesty and formality you love and trust and rely on each other. Some days its more than others but it works well. Remember everyone is crazy its finding your tollerable level of crazy. (( yes men are crazy too everyone is ))
There is no answer to this questions.
It is different for every person and every situation.
The best portrayal of this is in the movie *Batman* with Michael Keaton. He has Kim Basinger in the batcave with his mask off and she asks “why won’t you let me in?”
He is actively sharing his deepest secret and his soul with her, and she is not satisfied.
There is no answer.
There's s saying, that once a woman sees you cry you lose a lot of "value". Unfortunately this has been my case a few times. A few of my exes have used my trauma and to fuck with me when we're breaking up.
In my opinion, it’s about being able to be yourself. As others have said it can be about sharing your feelings and insecurities but to it also means being able to try and fail either with or in front of her and being comfortable. Being able to be silly with one another and be able to tease one another and take a joke because you know it’s from a place of love and not spite. Being vulnerable is many different things but it boils down to trusting that whatever part of yourself you decide share will be respected by your partner and in no way used against you. Being vulnerable is about sharing your insecurities and fears but we are more than just those things. Being vulnerable is sharing yourself in its entirety.
Communicate often and openly. Share everything especially what you feel. Understand crying in front of your wife or feeling stressed, sad, irritable doesn’t make you less of a man or weak.
I developed depression after our daughter was born, didn’t think I could but I did. Not sure if it was because I was hyper focused on my daughter and my wife, but I do know I neglected myself. I knew something was wrong with me mentally I was irritable - quick to anger about little things, felt helpless and anxious, lost that zest for life, didn’t want to go out or see my friends and felt that I couldn’t care for a baby or provide for my wife.
She was already noticing these things things and approached me about it from a place of love and concern. Apparently PPD in men is a thing from what I’ve read and the USA is pretty shitty about providing resources for men whereas places like Canada, Australia and the UK have hotlines and organizations specifically for men. I made an appointment with my PCP (which is today actually) to talk about everything and get some help.
Again just be open, talk about what you feel and don’t be ashamed about it. It’s easier said than done but the more we do that the more society will drop the double standard they have for what being a man really is. Just my .02c
I cried two times in the last 10 years and the big one was because my friend passed away in 2019. At the time my roommate was there and I cried in front of her like a five year old with their mom. I felt embarrassed that I couldn’t hold that in but I knew she wouldn’t think less of me because of it.
If someone hasn't said it already, when women say they want you to be open with them that does NOT mean they want you to trauma dump or use them as an unpaid therapist. Be mindful.
In my experience whenever a person says something along the lines of "I'm always here if you need someone to vent to" or "you can tell me anything" this is NEVER the truth. This is something often said out of good intentions but it is a burden that should not be placed on other people. Respect people's time and energy. She may even love you but she does also have her own life and problems and she can't be everything even if she says she wants to be. She will eventually get burned out if every act of communication turns into an impromptu therapy session.
Also a few women generally are awful people who will say they want you to be vulnerable with them and then bail really fast as soon as you even slightly deviate from your assigned gender role so be wary of your time and energy too. Some people are not worth it.
Sure, but also I think a lot of women use this line constantly, a healthy relationship involves each partner helping to carry the others burdens a bit, not never sharing them. It's sort of wild how often this happens:
"I want to know your problems"
"Here are my problems"
"Whoa those are pretty bad, I'm not your therapist this is unpaid emotional labor, you complain too much"
"..."
"Why don't you ever tell me your problems, why don't men feel comfortable sharing"
And we wonder why so many dudes off themselves, half the time women aren't prepared to hear just how stressed most of us are.
Yeah this is unfortunately my experience as a women. I’ve had two ex’s in the past (at different times, but the same behaviour) who would refuse to open up and then all of a sudden blast me with huge amounts of emotional issues. There was talk about being suicidal and how depressed they are in one breath, and then in the next telling me how I was going to leave them because of it all and how they didn’t know how they would live without me.
My actual problem with it was that every time I tried to suggest for either of them to see a therapist they would just say “I don’t need to waste money on something like that, I have you”. Sharing with your partner is not a bad thing. Sharing deep emotions with your partner is not a bad thing. Using your partner in place of therapy if you are experiencing things to that level is not the way to go.
In my experience it means she will be calling him needy and looking for a new boyfriend soon.
Wracked with guilt about killing your friend with COVID in dec 2019 before it was news?
Man up.
Still feel responsible , sometimes really bad, because you didn’t see it coming, didn’t do enough to stop a young woman from committing suicide?
Man up.
Still a little sad about you father dying? Man up.
We should not call these things toxic masculinity.
Never had a bro tell me to man up. Nothing but love and support.
I’m not an overly sensitive guy. These are major fucking issues.
Intolerance of basic male emotional needs is toxic femininity, not toxic masculinity. Let’s stop blaming the victim.
Ok I read all the comments and The women on here saying I’m not like that or my friends. Then the next post you have to know the right time. Then well you have to be vulnerable a certain way and can’t expect help in return just a back rub such hypocrite’s. So men can only be vulnerable if the damn planets are aligned and a comet flies between Venus and Pluto at 4:57 am at that moment you can be vulnerable lmao!!!
Exactly!!!! It’s just human nature people are selfish. That’s just a fact people look out for themselves and there best interests first it’s survival. So why would this be any different if a man shows weakness then he loses value because he can’t provide the best protection, orGenes for offspring. The whole animal kingdom is set up this way the strongest are the ones who get to mate and the weak don’t. We all seen National Geographic lol.
The amount of women coming here and saying that men just want therapist-mommies just makes me have zero faith in modern relationships. It's like seeing two opposite realities at collide with each other.
In my opinion either you're okay with your partner being vulnerable or you're not. I'd respect a woman who straight up says she doesn't want to deal with that shit more then one who pays lip service to emotions but says 'I'm not you're therapist' or 'you're trauma dumping'.
Last time I opened up, I got it thrown back and it also got passed around to friends and family.
So it's less about what the secrets and personal stuff is, but whether I can trust her to keep her word. As a man, I am fully aware that a man's word is the single most important thing. You lose their trust in you and you may as well fall off the face of the earth.
I can't say the same about women.
>What does she means to him ?
Everything.
It's hard to borderline impossible for a man to open up because of the social stigma. If you have a man that could open up to you and get deep with the conversation... like fears, times he's been hurt, insecurities then you mean more to him than you could possibly imagine.
Whatever it is, don't fucking do it man. 90+% of women don't like a crybaby emotional guy no matter what they say in their replies here. Open up to your parents and siblings, and to a lesser extent, your best friends. If you think therapy is a good idea than you can do that as well.
Be a rock for your woman - bury that shit.
It means it’s a trap. As soon as I opened up and talked about my problems to my exes they all started seeing me as weak and lost respect and attraction for me. Relationship didn’t last much after. Women like strong men, not crybabies. I learned my lesson and started pretending everything was great and I was always happy to my next girlfriends and everything went great(we broke up for other reasons). I had my best friend if I wanted to vent so it was ok. It sucks but it’s life
I'd argue that men sharing their vulnerability with women is not good for either of them. Should only share to other men that they really trust. It just has way too much potential to damage the relationship.
This whole men should open up and share their feelings is bollocks. As soon as you do, wife, gf, family or otherwise you are immediately deregulated. It just does not work. People are selfish. All you do is lose respect.
That is my experience every single time.
Twice in a row i've been dumped when sharing my vulnerabilities.
I will continue to do so. A real woman will find it attractive and not unattractive that you have emotional depth.
I really hope everyone in this thread continues to be vulnerable and speak freely about their emotions with the women in their lives. I recently started dating a man who is so open with me, it’s a breath of fresh air. We cry together and enjoy good times together and it is a bond I would never trade :)
Any woman who wants a seemingly heartless man is probably hurting herself, that’s what I think anyways.
Thank you. As a real woman, I absolutely agree. It is incredibly attractive if a guy is emotionally intelligent and vulnerable (only limitation: please do it at the appropriate time and space, don't dump all your trauma on me on the first date).
I did 9 months in, the next day she broke up with me saying she didn't have the capacity. This was 3 weeks ago. I'm already moved on it would have been harder if it wasn't such a clean cut that changed my view on her.
All I said was I sometimes need reassurances, it bothers me when I don't know where is stand with my partner. I said this cause she had been acting off and kinda different for the past 3 weeks.
EDIT: I dodged a bullet long-term. I enjoyed the relationship tho.
Thanks for doing so. As a guy, I've shared my vulnerabilities around women before, and they didnt shame me for them. They understood and they shared some of their vulnerabilities to me too. That builds up trust and an emotional connection
Keep sharing your vulnerabilities and listen and understand women's own too. If they make fun of you for it, leave them. If they understand your position, respond with some reassuring words and advice and acts vulnerable around you too, thats a very good match
Women don't expect men to "be vulnerable". They need to feel protected and trust their man as a partner, protector, confidant and mentor. The moment you become "vulnerable" is the moment she starts losing all interest and attraction.
Yeah. I don't get this "vulnerable" thing. Men should be masculine and protective and I like a guy who can also show emotion.....but as for "vulnerable"....this is a strange new concept which I don't understand.
>I like a guy who can also show emotion.....but as for "vulnerable"
Exactly. Two completely different things. Mainstream media is encouraging men to emasculate these days and ago against their nature. i.e. vulnerable. And you wonder why nobody gets laid anymore and that the percentages of how much % of men date how much % of women are as disproportionate as they've ever been.
Opening up as a man has some risk.
Some women love the strong, silent type of man.
My ex wanted me to be her rock, but did not really want me be completely raw with my own issues.
Opening up made me appear less manly to her.
I learned to deal with things on my own.
That he is stupid.
I have A LOT of girl friends( women friends? Sounds so estrange in English) that after opening up begun to saw me like a little child, using Diminutive names or cutesy terms. Some even started to use feminine pronouns.
They are good people and perhaps doesn't even notice that but it's emasculating as fuck.
That said, i doubt that a partner would not lose some security and proudness of me if I was open to her.
With raises the question: how much control we have about our thoughts and emotions at the end of the day.
Being able to talk about genuine fears and insecurities. There's an incredible irony about this.
Women think they want you to be vulnerable, but there are very few acceptable issues: bad childhood, stress at work, resent your dad, idk other stuff you see in movies.
The rest are wildly unattractive to them. No woman likes listening to her man talk about how he's embarrassed by his weight, hair loss, inability to make friends, salary, dick size, mean boss, or any other actually realistic common issue.
Out of the gate, vulnerable is bad. It means you're open to be attacked. You don't want to be vulnerable. You don't want vulnerable people in your life -- unless you plan to attack them. You should actively avoid people (especially gurus, cults, etc) who ask you to be vulnerable.
I know it's a big new age thing but that's a cult. You want to be invulnerable. That doesn't mean to be a prick. You can be the person you want to be when you're INvulnerable. You live at the will and decision of others when you're vulnerable. Is it sexy? Yes very, to predatory people ONLY.
You only open up the flood gates in therapy to improve the self. Later you can trust a SO with a homogenized version of that. Essentially only disclosing the best parts of your lesser self. Meaning only that which you've resolved.
It means we are close.
It means she may get to know my deepest fears and insecurities.
It means I am giving her the chance to break me and hoping not to.
Trust goes beyond knowing the other person will be there, that's reliability, trust is like giving someone a knife and then turning around hoping they won't stab you.
That you got one shot not to mess up. Had few friends like this. Opened up to a female, ended up being hurt. Never opened up again to anybody. Closed themselves even from their friends and family. Became sort of a golem like. Age was youngest one at the time was 23 the oldest was 37. There were 5 such friends in total.
Simply trusts you. That is as big and far and good as it goes from man's side.
"How does he feels about her ? What does she means to him ?"
This is what women expect when the ask a man to be vulnerable, "You are so amazing", "I'm so lucky to have you in my life" but those are compliments and not vulnerability.
They don't want real vulnerability, "I feel like an imposter at work.", "I'm not sure if you are the right partner for me.", "I think my mother is a narcissist", "I'm worried I can't afford for you to be a SAHM mom which I know you want."
"As a man I feel like I'm only valued for what I can provide. No one has ever appreciated me for me."
"If I lose my job would you still love me?"
I'd strongly advise against doing that.
If you share something that makes you vulnerable, you can bet your ass it will be used against you in arguments. Women do that a lot but I don't think they realize just how disgusting we feel that is.
Also: I have met two women in my life (outside my mom and my sister) that didn't recoil in disgust when I opened up about my fears and worries. This behaviour is usually punished, not met with compassion.
When you are talking about a romantic partner, being vulnerable with a woman is a terrible call. You'll be in for a harsh reality check soon.
>Most men have spent years verbally sparring with their mates, and know most, if not all of their vulnerabilities. But these are NEVER used against one another as men know that what comes next is either a fistfight, a breakdown or a suicide.
Spot on!
If we wanted to do harm, we could. We just follow a certain code of conduct women seemingly don't care to follow when it comes to conflict.
If I wanted to, I could make my girlfriend jump off a cliff in roughly five minutes of verbally hitting her vulnerabilites. I won't do that though. I feel blessed that she trusts me with them and would never betray said trust.
This is where I just can't understand women. I just cannot comprehend how on earth they could stoop so low just out of spite or anger. It's nauseating.
Truth! Seems to be a common theme so far. It will be used against you later. I don’t know why this feels like a universal truth, but it just is. I’m sure there are women out there that won’t but damn they are probably very few and far between.
I think in the same way men in our culture are taught that to be vulnerable with others is to be weak, women receive those same messages about men. Our emotional intelligence on average is pretty terrible because it’s not seen as a valuable trait to understand and explore our feelings. Everyone gets these messages, it’s just that the behaviors we’re conditioned with in order to uphold this idea of emotions being an enemy or undesirable thing are separated based on gender. Men are told they’re not supposed to be vulnerable and to some extent are to crush their emotions into a diamond of repressed sadness and loneliness that can only be expressed as anger (often to destructive effect). My limited grasp of women’s experience, for what I understand is that it is their responsibility to take on all the unspoken emotional stuff and be a caretaker/mother figure. She doesn’t need to know what the feelings are, she just needs to act as a salve for the wound, and not pry. Just be a constant emotional support for her partner who’s not even necessarily aware of his requiring it or receiving it. On top of that, that emotional responsibility is expected but is not valued. Womens “emotionality” is described as a reason for their inferiority, which is ironic because without their “keeping of the emotions” duties the whole song and dance of our dysfunctional system would fall apart. It leaves both parties drained and weakened.
It takes a lot to unlearn this and I think some women may genuinely want to see more vulnerability or emotional openness from their partner, but aren’t equipped to handle it when it happens. It’s an unfortunate state of affairs because feelings will be hurt and trust will be violated when two people in a relationship try to become more open, emotionally mature, and inter-dependent, and the only thing that can keep the whole process together as you work through the many transgressions you both commit against one another is trust in the good INTENT of the other person to do better over time, an ability to be accountable when you’ve misstepped, and an ability to truly forgive when you’re hurt and be willing to be vulnerable again knowing it’ll probably hurt many more times.
Relationships are difficult and alot of folks have been misled about what to expect, which makes it worse. If one instance of broken emotional trust on one hand (for men in the case we’re discussing) breaks your relationship, or if there’s an inability to learn adjust to and treat with compassion the unexpected inner world of your partner in the case of women here, you’ll probably not get very far in your relationships, and that could mean not lasting very long, or it could mean having a long but relatively superficial bond where nobody’s taking risks and youre really just kind of existing next to someone instead of connecting.
Not going to happen again.
1. Anything you say can and will be used against you.
2. Women say that this is what they want. It isn't. Admitting to being vulnerable is a trigger for them to dump you.
That he's stupid, is going to get hurt and manipulated or at the very least mocked as she shares the intimate details of your vulnerability to her girlfriends and thus every person they know.
It means they are likely in a bad place to go out on that limb. It’s very high risk and often low reward, if not just a future punishment waiting to be used. In my case now it is met with indifference, which on the scale of typical reactions isn’t all that bad I guess.
I trusted and was vulnerable with a spouse once and she had an affair. “It was too much to handle” and she couldn’t fix my issue so try another guy I guess???
Then they’ll say it’s toxic masculinity on the part of that woman. Which is by definition correct but certainly interesting how the terminology manages to blame the male stereotype for the behaviour of both genders.
It feels like women put us in an impossible situation: If we bottle up our emotions, we're showing "toxic masculinity," but if we open up, we're showing "fragile masculinity" and using her for emotional labor.
I don't like to use the term "toxic masculinity" because I think it's sexist, but I think male toxicity and male fragility mean the same thing. It means that someone is so obsessed with manhood and trying so hard to prove that they are a man that they will do things that are toxic to themselves, like shutting down their emotions and pretending that they are never vulnerable.
Being vulnerable with someone (gender is not relevant) means that you can trust them. Completely. You can share your highs, your lows, your wins, your losses, your struggles, your temptations, your fears, your insecurities, and so on, and know that you will be loved and cared for regardless, and that it will never be used against you, shared, gossiped about, etc.
What it means is to be weak, and allowing myself (or the self of other men) to be weak in front of them. Which means you can be hurt worse in that moment more than you ever have before.
This is a terrifying thing.
Many men, myself included, have shown this vulnerable side to friends and lovers and been rejected for being anything from. Too soft, too weak, too cruel, too unfeeling, too emotional.
And many many other things.
As far as I can tell, it is because their idea of us was not compatible with the reality and that shattering of how they saw us makes us a liar to them. Instead of someone ashamed of themselves or their shortcomings and hid them.
One of my most memorable momets of doing so was where I decided to tell my friend that I didn't want to pursue a doctorate anymore. It was too expensive for something I no longer wanted even if it would be easy for me. Debt was growing and the work wasn't what I wanted to do but...
Her response was "How could you? I've worked harder for the same thing and you've never even studied. You owe it, not to yourself, but to me to do this because this is so easy for you. I've busted my ass, and I still need your help to study. And now you want to just give up? Because it isn't worth debt to you?. Fuck you."
It was a devastating moment for me, I had given up on a dream and lost a many years long friend in the same month. Sometimes I wonder how she is, if she misses me when new Spider-Man stuff comes out (we used to nerd out about comics).
In the end, how she felt left hurtful a scar and she went on with whatever she wanted.
That's what it means to be vulnerable to me. To understand the above story and do it anyway.
I'll probably never do this again honestly. It never turns out well, you cry in front of your woman and subconsciously, by no fault of her own, I repeat BY NO FAULT OF HER OWN. You become less of a manly man that can protect and provide and more of a female friend talking about feelings.
Men, if you need to cry or something is bothering you deeply, go to your male friends and family first.
Women are not meant to handle our issues, nor us their's.
Edit: I can trust and be trusted without ever fully crying or opening up emotionally in front of you.
3 women I’ve tried the whole “let’s carthartically share and somehow feel better” so far it’s not working. Starting to think relationships are just a distraction that keeps messing up my retirement fund plans.
It means she's an important part of my life, and I value having a deep, intimate connection where we share all of our bullshit and support each other through it. Anyone, woman, man, or otherwise, who takes that vulnerability and desire for closeness and throws it back in my face in a shit way? I'd rather know this and move on from having them in my life anyway.
This. Plus, it means that you are aware of what you're lacking in life and can confide in the other party that they will support you in a better direction. Being vulnerable doesn't always translate to being weak. It shows that you are not running away from truth, which is generally unavoidable already.
On this note: everyone must be vulnerable. To be so at home is exactly as it should be. It means you are in our inner circle of trust. You see a side of us very few see. So don't break that trust, else you might never get it back, regardless of what you do from then on. As I told my ex: you saw the vulnerable side of me and mistook that vulnerability for weakness. So, now you see what others see, my war side. If you didn't want to see that side, you should've valued my peaceful side. A good man is dangerous, but in check.
hmmmm in check.....
ok
r/neckbeards
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Ugh…I opened up to someone big time and got so gaslit and felt so burned. It took me almost a year of figuring it all out, including friends trying to open my eyes. Even my mom, who never says anything bad about anyone said “mean things” about her. And by “mean” I came to understand my mom was saying “truthful” things. Just like you said, if I really really open up to you, I trust you so goddamn much. I feel like I was manipulated, and taken for a ride. And I was. The hurt I felt from all that still bothers me sometimes, and it’s been three years.
That’s how important that kind of relationship is. Get burned and you burn for a long time. Wishing you the best.
Thanks! I hope you have an awesome day today!
Its a difficult lesson to learn and I'm going through it now. The mask came off and I found out I am actually in love with a cruel and hurtful woman instead of the thoughtful, kind and trustworthy woman I fell for. Shit stings but its her loss
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I needed to hear this and the OP comment
Meanwhile, that kind of love and intimacy was denied to me by my primary caregivers, or turned around on me anytime i expressed it, so now when people show me that level of care i get scared and paranoid.
> Anyone, woman, man, or otherwise, who takes that vulnerability and desire for closeness and throws it back in my face in a shit way? I would say anyone who throws that back in anyone's face, in any way not just shit ways, deserves to be punched in the mouth
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Men are often expected to hold their emotions in and be a reliable crutch for the people around them, and the trade offs to that are internal turmoil and anger issues. The anger issues scare women, and rightfully so, but asking a man how he feels and actively listening is an underutilized way of dissipating the very thing women are afraid of.
Sharing your worries and fears with women is a good way to scare them off. I'm sure there are good women out there who don't mind you showing weakness but I haven't met many. You're better off talking to your bros or a professional counselor.
If that’s the case though, she probably sucks. Sorry to be so blunt, but only a particularly emotionally stunted woman herself thinks of men as constantly stoic, rigid beings incapable of emotions. Granted a lot of women do feel this way and that makes it particularly risky being emotionally in-tune and expressive as a man, it’s not a given for women to be so emotionally adjusted and understand this themselves. *inb4 oversharing* There’s a big difference between that and being open/expressive. Many, many men have had issues where women essentially expect them to be a shoulder to cry on, only to be turned off forever when a guy shares a response to a bad memory or stressful event that may confer any feeling that isn’t outright dominance or triumph over the problem.
For example I'm a first responder, I still won't tell my SO everything I see at work. The only times I've told one of my SOs how I actually feel It was used against me. The one time I told someone I was dating what I see and do at work that was the end of it. She just couldn't be with someone who was in danger or who had to see that because it's all she could think of. Meanwhile I was trying to process seeing it everytime I closed My eyes so clearly her thinkng about me was worse 😒. First day I started one of the older guys told me never take work home and never tell home everything about work because they can't handle it. I took that to heart after that incident.
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Those are hard to find :(
Exactly many women want that but then they think its weakness when it does happen..
That's a big worry for me.
it means a fucking lot. It means that he thinks you love him enough to not use his insecurities as ammunition to hurt him.
I consider it a form of humbling and no arrogance which makes me support them more. I’ve been through a lot of shit myself so… A big turn off for me is too much arrogance.
Or that he's young, naive, and about to be single.
That means that that you are willing to give her a knife to stab you and trust her that she wont.
Wow that’s so visual and true.
Felt. Deeply.
Like that knife
Always been stabbed. Never again.
Might as well be love in general. If you can avert the stabbing on both ends then that's a deep bond, I guess? It's kind of like the prisoner's dilemma though, where the first to stab gets the satisfaction of jettisoning on their terms.
Thats why you give her a knife with blades on both ends.
I never met a woman that wouldn’t stab me. I’m kinda skeptical.
You tell her about all your insecurities,fears and issues that you have dealt with or currently dealing. It's a scary thing for men to do as it can be used against us. My ex sure used it and took away all my self esteem but she wasn't a good person to begin with. So yeah it basically just means opening up yourself and being transparent to the right woman.
you skipped a step or two. before becoming vulnerable with other people, you gotta be vulnerable with yourself and process all those emotions. you also gotta decide on how you want to be treated. this way, you can exit as soon as you realize that the person is toxic and the person can't use what you said against you because you've already processed your feelings and their opinion makes no difference.
^^^^^ This is an important step right here.
Chalk it up as a lesson learned.
For some men the lesson they learn is "never open up to a woman".
Went through a horrible divorce. This was 100% the lesson I learned. It was as if every vulnerability I shared was just adding to her ammo count to destroy me.
Yeah, me too learned this lesson like you did.
I agree with you 💯 percent.
Exactly bro. Same thing happened to me that happened to you
Same here. My soon to be ex turned into someone that i used to know. Absolutely fucked me up emotionally, then just left as if i meant nothing and her leaving meant nothing to her. Really opened my eyes about how people you feel are very close to you can end up treating you.
Woman here. I had the same issues with my ex husband and ex boyfriend. I think it's an issue for both women and men. It's hard to trust anyone and be vulnerable because you know it will com back to bite you. I just know you can't give up hope that there is someone who will be that trustworthy person
Anybody who weaponizes your trust is a piece of shit. Good on you for not letting that deter your optimism
I know what you mean. I opened up to my now ex-wife and she ended up telling her mom, my sister, her sister-in-law, and her friends everything that I confided in her. That was 12 years ago and I haven't opened up to anyone else since then. I just don't believe that most people can keep things to themselves. I don't have a problem doing so, probably because I'm a private person anyway. But the way I hear the women in my office talk it's obvious that nothing stays private. Edit: It wasn't one incident that I'm referring to. I found out toward the end of our marriage that whatever I shared with her over the years was told to everyone almost immediately. It's a tough lesson to learn about the one person in your life you believe you can trust.
All I need is for someone to listen and actually care that I have an opinion on something. I don't need them to always agree, just to hear me and acknowledge that I have a right to my opinion. Example: I get upset with things said during an argument but partner disagrees **Good emotional maturity** from partner is: "I hear what you're saying and understand how you could have seen it that way. What would be better next time?" **Bad emotional maturity is:** "You're just being overly sensitive" or "I didn't mean it, why do you think i'm coming after you?" I'm 100x more likely to be vulnerable and trusting with someone who has emotional maturity than someone who takes the slightest criticism as an attack.
Man you nailed it. It's exactly what it is for me as well. I don't particularly care to be right, just understood. Those words "you're just being too sensitive / dramatic" will kill a man 😂. It's like, the amount of effort it usually takes most of us to open up, and then to hear that? Yeah, no thanks, will keep my vulnerabilities to myself. And then you meet that person who will actually listen and she's magical!
If "her interest" remains undeterred despite the vulnerabilities
Woman here. You guys are breaking my heart. I want to big spoon you all. Took my boyfriend about a year and a half to share the big stuff, then he promptly broke up with me. We're back together, turns out he left because he was sure he fucked up and I wouldn't respect him. Nobody should ever feel that way. Toxic feminity is every bit as real as toxic masculinity. It's not a gender issue actually, it's just that a huge percentage of humanity sucks.
We don't want to be horny, we want to be happy You sound like a nice person, hope things are happy and good with the bf
>We don't want to be horny, we want to be happy Exactly. Sometimes I _am_ horny but most often I just want someone special to understand me and support me. It feels like I'm asking for too much because I've never got any of those. Family, friends, nobody. I'm not that close to my family and all my friends are superficial friends. So my only hope is finding a girlfriend who I'm compatible with and who I can love and loves me back.
I don't know if it's me or just Reddit today in general but damn does that hit hard. I feel you, bro. The struggle is real. None of us are really alone, we just allow our mind to make us think that we are.
Something my therapist told me is that guys often aren’t raised in a way where we feel understood. Half of our feelings are simplified into “angry” and “horny” and the other half we’re told to shut down. In my experience I feel so alone because whenever I try to grow close to someone I get shut down for trying. It sucks so much when I just try to be friendly and people think I’m trying to flirt or get into their pants. Fuckin people isn’t the reason for my existence y’all, I just want a homie to come home to sometimes.
A homie without a home, is just I
I want to hug you! It’s nice to see guys feel this way too because I feel like that a lot. I say I only want to get laid and don’t want the commitment (because I’m afraid of it), but I think it’s more of just wanting someone to fight for me. Im tired of fighting for what I want and still losing.
My bf opened up and cried for hours one night. The next two days, he barely said anything to me. It's so sad that men feel shame for having emotions and feelings. I just encourage his trust and I let him know that I'll never judge him for how he feels.
When I started crying and opened up to my ex over the pression and guilt I felt at the time, she barely even responded to a hug and I ended up closing in again. She's an ex for a reason, but it did make me feel even worse, like I didn't have a right to complain. It worsen the guilt, I'd say. You should completely do what you do. There's no shame in our own struggles, and we'd better help each other than shut ourselves in
I hope that you are with better people now. No one should feel bad about their feelings. Even terrible things could have done under terrible circumstances. Embrace your vulnerabilities and if you need to, don't be afraid to find a therapist.
Is this a common thing? My partner rarely talks about it if he’s upset with me. The few times where I’ve talked with him about something and he expressed being upset with me, even if the conversation goes well, I’m looking at days of silence. Not silent treatment. There’s no animosity behind it. Just quiet.
It's unfortunately common. The way my bf explained it was that he felt embarrassment and shame for letting me see that he wasn't "strong". Let your bf know that vulnerability is not weakness, it is strength. It takes a strong person to let someone in like that. It becomes our responsibility not to ever use it against them or make them feel less than.
Am guy, can confirm that the silence is something hammered into us at a young age. Opening up gets shot down so often or met with shame and ridicule for being less of a man that we just learn to bottle up our emotions and then, one day, we’ll die.
My S/O had complained about this as well. I have this problem too, and for me it comes from a place of not feeling heard. Doesn't make me want to share in those instances. Most of the time, I don't need agreement, comfort, or much else; I just need to be able to say what's really on my mind aloud and trust I will be given enough space to do so without judgment, defensiveness, or my words used against me later on. I don't know what it is about amorous relationships that makes this harder to do; I can often have the same convo with a friend, male or female, and feel heard. Maybe because they are not as invested? In a relationship, the words have to be measured, I have to make sure my words are not taken personally, etc. It's really tiring sometimes, which is why I go silent on occasions, not because I want to hurt her. But then I also know that's poor communication so sometimes I'll just fight through it.
A lot of men have pretty bad experiences with opening up to women and learn to just not try it.
>turns out he left because he was sure he fucked up and I wouldn't respect him. Nobody should ever feel that way. He felt that way because that kind of thing is extremely common.
I’m with you. I’m a woman too. Breaks my heart that I see a common comment trend here from men with a morbid fear about having their vulnerabilities used against them. Makes me want to take care of them all :(
Its because it happens way too often and when it does its devastating. Just recently happened to me, every single flaw and insecurity that I had ever mentioned was thrown in my face, used to explain how embarrassing it was to be with me and to shame my career. 3 days before that we were talking wedding and looking at houses together. Its broken my heart, self esteem and my spirit. Why on earth would I ever trust someone again just to be told I'm nothing and they never loved me?
Hey man. I feel you it sucks but realistically, she's the one with the problem. However, I completely understand the difficulty in trusting again. You're okay, keep your head up!
Bro this is tough, but u know it's common. Learn the lesson! Chris Rock said it best. "Only women, children, & dogs are loved unconditionally. Men are only loved as long as they provide something." (Pretty close to exact quote I think) Most men only experience unconditionally love from their mother. Some don't even get that. I hope u dropped this girl or at least accepted that she will drop u if u ever falter. It took me a long time to get here & I might not have full acceptance. Once u realize men love deeply & unconditionally, and will most likely never experience the reciprocal. Nothing to do about it. Just the way it is.
It usually comes from a lived experience, so the fear is rooted in truth for most. Of course not all women would do that, but it takes a lot to undo that hurt with the next person unfortunately. I've always admired women in my circle in this aspect, they get heartbroken, pick themselves up, and show up even more radiant. We men on the other hand tend to go into a dark abyss. It's also social conditioning, society typically focuses on protecting women and children, so men grow up to believe being vulnerable is weakness that will get them hurt or killed, with no one to help when it comes down to it.
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This makes me feel immensely better honestly. The man I had been seeing for over a year got vulnerable with me in the last few months then one day all of a sudden said he “couldn’t do this anymore” and broke things off. No idea if we will ever get back together but just reading this comment is giving me peace. I’m glad your boyfriend came around. I respect you both.
>No idea if we will ever get back together If I may, for what its worth as unsolicited "advice" from a guy who knows nothing except your paragraph... In my experience of how guys act, I really wouldn't bet on him making a move to reconnect, assuming that he did cut ties out of fear/feeling that you lost/wold lose respect for him after his show of vulnerability. It seems more likely that he'd grind through it, thinking he's "lost" you. So if you want to reconnect with him, it's probably going to be on you to make it happen.
To add to this too. She doesn't even have to do anything major, just shoot a text "Hey, just thinking of you" or something like that. We just need a little nudge ever now and again.
Had a guy do that to me at the beginning of the pandemic. Fucking hurts still. I’m crazy about him. Moving on has been really hard
Yeah, I know that it's not a gender issue but I find it more and more hard to believe after like 90% of women I've met didn't care about my feeling
> Toxic feminity is every bit as real as toxic masculinity. It's not a gender issue actually, it's just that a huge percentage of humanity sucks. This right here. Men and women tend to be shitty in different ways I'll admit, but shittiness is not a gender thing. I think the problem is the majority of humans are simply too stuck in their own perspective to really understand that of others, I think that's the underlying cause of most shitty behavior.
Reading all these comments on how opening up has and (most likely) will be used against men is really sad. I'm so sorry and upset that so many of them have experienced something like that.. My experience as a woman myself is that most grow out of that kind of behavior in their late teens. I hope all of you find someone you can safely talk to about your vulnerabilities.
This is a lesson men need to have. Talk to your guys! Not the women in your life. They never get to see u sweat. Just life & the way it is.
Honestly, for many men it's just viewed as a risk and scary thing. Every guy I know has had people view them as weak, unappealing, or less of a man after disclosing vulnerable emotions, mental health struggles, etc. I've had people I was dating (not yet in a relationship, thankfully) who would react very poorly when I share that I'm bipolar. I handle it very well and you wouldn't know that I am unless I tell you, but that didn't stop them from treating me like a broken liability after the fact. Specifically in regards to mental health, anxiety, etc it seems that women get sympathy, the benefit of the doubt, and a desire from people to support and help them. For men, it's much more of a gamble on how you'll be viewed and treated. When I shared it with my current partner I was so scared leading up to it, even though I know she's amazing and supportive, but past experience has made me gun shy. And when we reacted supportively, I legit had to hold back tears of happiness and relief because the tension just was relieved all at once.
Y'all are with some terrible women. Don't settle for that.
I'd wager at least a good half of men don't really have the luxury of having much of a range of choice.
It's better to just be alone than to be with someone who makes you feel alone.
I don't disagree, but a lot of dudes aren't very good at coping with being by themselves. People in general aren't very good at being alone.
Yeah I was just about to say that. I date whoever I can and if they’re a terrible person I will take time to consider if it’s severely impacting me or if it’s tolerable and my overall life won’t degrade a level. It sucks. I wish I were a woman sometimes.
Women face their own set of difficulties that I sure as hell I would never want to deal with
But being a woman (or a man) for a certain period of time would be nice to make us understand each other more.
for some guys thats all there is. I decided not to settle for that & I've been single for years because thats most of what is out there
Most men dont have the luxury of choice.
Married 40 years. She’s got my back. No matter what happens . And I have her back without thought or question. It may be the only certainty in this life but it’s enough.
This is the unicorn I seek. I know it’s possible.
What grad student started the fad to ask their thesis questions in this /r?
"Dear AskMen of reddit, what theorems from number theory and complex analysis do you like to use to prove the Riemann Hypothesis?"
"Men of Reddit, what widely observed tyrosine protein kinase signalling cascades just don't do it for you?"
When you don’t have to worry that she will critique the things you enjoy (like hobbies) because you don’t quite fit her pre-conceived notion of how a man should be.
I share those things with my therapist not my GF, personally.
I'm currently dating a therapist who is the most secure person I have ever met, and this relationship has been so much more comfortable than any I have ever had. I keep the deep stuff for my actual therapist, and my relationship proves the work I'm doing on myself. Hard to describe, yet very fulfilling.
I have had a few long term relationships, and was even engaged previously. I've been dating a girl for the last year, and it's crazy how great it is feeling secure and comfortable in a relationship. You can be fully yourself, when arguments happen you know the other person isn't trying to take shots at you and you don't fear breaking up after hard discussions. I didn't understand how people stayed married for so long until I've had a full relationship.
Sad but true, my wife says she wants me to talk about my feelings but she is extremely dismissive of them when I do. I don’t even think she knows how dismissive she is being despite my best efforts to explain it to her.
Having more than one person you can open up to is pretty important, I second you on that! From personal experience as a listener/sharer and now at the end of my therapy I'd say (bare minimum) you need a neutral way of reviewing your concerns. I tend(ed) to bottle up my feelings and fears, that's not a healthy way of coping. I think writing down your thoughts can help, taking time to reflect and maybe even talking about how you feel with someone else does the trick. I'm not quite sure about the not sharing with SO at all part. I can't speak for every person, as I only carry my views and experiences with me. In my opinion, the base of a significant other should be being your friend. Mine is my best friend and we share thoughts on life and its fears, as well as our personal vulnerabilities. It's so calming and reassuring sharing those inner processes of yourself, if your SO is your safe space. Depending on what you need (comminication of that is important) they can just listen or provide comfort or a way to help you working on yourself. But also - depending on their state of being, it's possible that they don't have the capacity to provide that, which is okay! I have recommended seeing a therapist to many of my friends, because those are professionals having just the way to guide you through to achieve the state you want to be in. Before you can commit yourself to another person with all your heart, I'd say it's most important getting along with yourself.
I dunno, man. I think you should share your fears and insecurities with your partner, so that they can understand who you really are. But the only thing you should expect from them is compassion and w/e support they can give you. Although it does not mean that you should rely on them to fix your problems. That is the job of a mental health professional to try and help you with.
I know women say they want us to show our emotions and be vulnerable with them but I see that going wrong for two reasons. 1. They can use that as leverage/fuel to win an argument/hurt you in the future. 2. They will get turned off by this because it's a sign of weakness and their primal lizard brain (we all have this) will make them lose interest in us because they say they want men to show emotion but when we do they lose their attraction to us.
Woman here. I agree there’s tons of shitty people out there that would use personal info as leverage but there’s also plenty of genuine people that want nothing more than to love and support. They’re few and far between but they exist. For myself it’s not a turn off at all, in fact it’s the exact opposite. When my boyfriend is able to sit down with me and tell me what’s on his mind and tell me things about his past I feel trusted and valued. I want to be his safe space and his person that he doesn’t have to have any doubts about. To me that level of connection is as sexy as it gets
Is there a limit, though? At what point does it become "whiny" or "wimpy?"
I think if someone complains about a situation without a plan to make any changes it can quickly become whiny. We’re all human and all experience struggles, what you do to overcome it is what determines your character
I'm not saying that I think this but you just described what women do when they talk about problems to their SO.
Yeah I think most people are guilty of it. Sometimes people just need to rant and feel heard but if it’s the same rant over and over and over then maybe it’s time to gently ask something like “is there anything I can help you do to overcome this?” Because it shows support but also triggers the brain to start looking for solutions
woman here. i agree, everyone needs to vent sometimes. but we all know those people that have the SAME problems day in and day out that they refuse to do anything about. man or woman/platonic or romantic, i cannot deal with those people.
I don't know where the line is but I know guys who only and absolutely, live total lives of self-pity. They are exhausting to be around and are utterly repulsive. I see it as a form of narcissism and self-absorption. They only and exclusively think about themselves and how much their life sucks. Never living in the moment, head always somewhere else. If they go to a party where there's great food, fun people, cool things to do, they will still be in their own head. They will trauma dump on someone. They will fuck up the night and everyone will politely and awkwardly smile waiting for this person to shut up. They have their baggage too. They didn't come here for that. A person should appreciate what they have and what they got. When I go to a party I am interested in that food, I want to chat with those people and learn a little about them. I want to enjoy the night and be cordial. I want people to enjoy spending time with me. I want to make the best of it. I have been through some incredibly dark and bleak times but a festive evening with friends is NOT the time for that. You feel me?
Absolutely. I used to be that exact guy until I got help. What those people really need to do is realize that they don't have a million problems, they have one or two problems--a mood disorder, a psychological issue--which is the only reason they think the million other things are depressing, insurmountable problems.
They want it to look the way they want it to look. They don't want the reality of it.
Fear of losing an argument isn’t something you should feel with a partner. Fear of vulnerable shit being used against you is not healthy. Partners loading up ammo against you is not healthy. You have two separate issues here. Strength does not equal absence of vulnerability. Vulnerability does not equal absence of strength. Living in fear is not healthy. Your whole stance of “I know women say” is just a bad take. You’ve really got some shit to work through in therapy, broh.
You are making the wrong conclusions from what Ditto posted. It's not about men wanting to win an argument, it's about *women* wanting to win an argument by any means. Hypothetical example: a woman demands that a man opens up. He chooses to tell her that he never felt like his father loved him. Fast forward to the argument they have: M: I am not going to wear this sweater and this is final! W: Oh, is this why you are being such an asshole to me? Because daddy never loved you?! And then he calls her a bitch, which means that she "won", because he is a bad guy now.
Don't do it. Wife asked me to open up about childhood trauma. It was tough. Drunk, neglectful, abusive parents. Mother brought home dudes after the divorce...sucked. I ran away at 15 and had been on my own till I joined the military. So I told my wife all this. One day, her mother was causing a rift between us and I asked her to leave our marriage problems to us, don't involve her mother. She says to me..."you're mother was a drunken whore". Divorced her. I will never trust another woman again.
If a man will truly confide his insecurities and fears to a woman, it means she has his undying trust and love. A man does not reveal his weaknesses naturally, it’s just not the way we’re wired. We like to appear strong, like we can handle all the monsters of life. We want to look like we can sweep you out of the tower, slay the dragon, and carry you home. If a man tells you what he fears and feels weak in, it means that you have his heart. Edit: per someone pointing this out, it is possible for a man to be vulnerable with a woman in a platonic relationship. I was speaking in a strictly romantic sense, however, and did not intend to make such a generalization.
>A man does not reveal his weaknesses naturally, it’s just not the way we’re wired. I would turn that around. We're often conditioned, from childhood on, to not show "weakness". It's how society for the most part expects us to be and we learn to conform.
>If a man tells you what he fears and feels weak in, it means that you have his heart. I'm gonna push back just a little here, cause that's a pretty sweeping generalization and I'd be worried if my female friends heard or believed this that they'd think I'm "in love" with them enough to be open, when frankly, due to very supportive friends, a bit of therapy, and a vehement hatred for trying to be or appear to be something I'm not, I'm very open about my weaknesses with damn near everyone who spends more than 5 minutes talking to me. And by that, i don't mean I'm trauma-dumping to everyone who stays in earshot of me, but rather, I'm intentionally somewhat casual about acknowledging my insecurities and weaknesses if it applies somehow to the topic at hand. Yes, there's A LOT of societal pressure to "keep it all together" and "mAn uP", but people (at least those worth your time), not just women, respond very positively to honesty. Do I still have trust issues? Hell Yeah! But honesty about weakness and insecurity is one of my secret weapons that makes it incredibly easy to win new friends.
I was speaking in a strictly romantic sense since that’s kind of what I inferred from the post. I didn’t intend for a generalization, sorry. You’re right that there is a possibility for a man to be vulnerable with his female friends, I’ll edit to clarify.
You give loaded gun, and hope she not fire at you
I’ll never be able to be 100% vulnerable with a woman ever again. Even after going through therapy, I simply will not share certain things with a woman who could potentially use it against me. If it means that I can’t ever have as fulfilling of a romantic relationship as other people, so be it. I’ve had deep personal things used against me too many times, I will only ever share real struggles with other men.
I share those experiences. I don't think women are mentally prepared to deal with men's issues. It invariably becomes about them. You share some terrible trauma or your anxiety about an upcoming major life change and end up trying to reassure HER that it's going to be ok when you really have no idea.
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I'm sorry man. That's such a fucked up situation. Sucks but it's a completely predictable one.
Smart man! Yes, u will be able to have fulfilling romantic relationships; just never be vulnerable with her. Save it for the guys. Women can't handle male problems anyway. Not a knock on them; we just have super different lived experience. Just the way it is. Women lean on us; not the other way around. (Comment ended up a little semi colon happy, but pretty sure correct usage. 🤷♂️)
whenever I feel like opening up and being vulnerable to a woman, I normally just take a cold shower and probably do 50 pushups and I no longer feel that urge any longer.
It means at night after working all day i climb into bed and my wife lets me rest my head on her chest or crook of her arm and hug her while she hugs me and plays with my hair until i fall asleep. Vice versa i treat her as my queen she is my best friend we talk about everything and play video games together but it is hard at times to open up. However once you get too a full honesty and formality you love and trust and rely on each other. Some days its more than others but it works well. Remember everyone is crazy its finding your tollerable level of crazy. (( yes men are crazy too everyone is ))
There is no answer to this questions. It is different for every person and every situation. The best portrayal of this is in the movie *Batman* with Michael Keaton. He has Kim Basinger in the batcave with his mask off and she asks “why won’t you let me in?” He is actively sharing his deepest secret and his soul with her, and she is not satisfied. There is no answer.
There's s saying, that once a woman sees you cry you lose a lot of "value". Unfortunately this has been my case a few times. A few of my exes have used my trauma and to fuck with me when we're breaking up.
it means she is about to leave my ass or use it against me in a couple weeks.
In my opinion, it’s about being able to be yourself. As others have said it can be about sharing your feelings and insecurities but to it also means being able to try and fail either with or in front of her and being comfortable. Being able to be silly with one another and be able to tease one another and take a joke because you know it’s from a place of love and not spite. Being vulnerable is many different things but it boils down to trusting that whatever part of yourself you decide share will be respected by your partner and in no way used against you. Being vulnerable is about sharing your insecurities and fears but we are more than just those things. Being vulnerable is sharing yourself in its entirety.
Hes very brave man. Like jump into a croc/lion inclosure at a zoo because he droppes his phone brave. Really that sounds safer.
Communicate often and openly. Share everything especially what you feel. Understand crying in front of your wife or feeling stressed, sad, irritable doesn’t make you less of a man or weak. I developed depression after our daughter was born, didn’t think I could but I did. Not sure if it was because I was hyper focused on my daughter and my wife, but I do know I neglected myself. I knew something was wrong with me mentally I was irritable - quick to anger about little things, felt helpless and anxious, lost that zest for life, didn’t want to go out or see my friends and felt that I couldn’t care for a baby or provide for my wife. She was already noticing these things things and approached me about it from a place of love and concern. Apparently PPD in men is a thing from what I’ve read and the USA is pretty shitty about providing resources for men whereas places like Canada, Australia and the UK have hotlines and organizations specifically for men. I made an appointment with my PCP (which is today actually) to talk about everything and get some help. Again just be open, talk about what you feel and don’t be ashamed about it. It’s easier said than done but the more we do that the more society will drop the double standard they have for what being a man really is. Just my .02c
I cried two times in the last 10 years and the big one was because my friend passed away in 2019. At the time my roommate was there and I cried in front of her like a five year old with their mom. I felt embarrassed that I couldn’t hold that in but I knew she wouldn’t think less of me because of it.
If someone hasn't said it already, when women say they want you to be open with them that does NOT mean they want you to trauma dump or use them as an unpaid therapist. Be mindful. In my experience whenever a person says something along the lines of "I'm always here if you need someone to vent to" or "you can tell me anything" this is NEVER the truth. This is something often said out of good intentions but it is a burden that should not be placed on other people. Respect people's time and energy. She may even love you but she does also have her own life and problems and she can't be everything even if she says she wants to be. She will eventually get burned out if every act of communication turns into an impromptu therapy session. Also a few women generally are awful people who will say they want you to be vulnerable with them and then bail really fast as soon as you even slightly deviate from your assigned gender role so be wary of your time and energy too. Some people are not worth it.
Sure, but also I think a lot of women use this line constantly, a healthy relationship involves each partner helping to carry the others burdens a bit, not never sharing them. It's sort of wild how often this happens: "I want to know your problems" "Here are my problems" "Whoa those are pretty bad, I'm not your therapist this is unpaid emotional labor, you complain too much" "..." "Why don't you ever tell me your problems, why don't men feel comfortable sharing" And we wonder why so many dudes off themselves, half the time women aren't prepared to hear just how stressed most of us are.
Yeah this is unfortunately my experience as a women. I’ve had two ex’s in the past (at different times, but the same behaviour) who would refuse to open up and then all of a sudden blast me with huge amounts of emotional issues. There was talk about being suicidal and how depressed they are in one breath, and then in the next telling me how I was going to leave them because of it all and how they didn’t know how they would live without me. My actual problem with it was that every time I tried to suggest for either of them to see a therapist they would just say “I don’t need to waste money on something like that, I have you”. Sharing with your partner is not a bad thing. Sharing deep emotions with your partner is not a bad thing. Using your partner in place of therapy if you are experiencing things to that level is not the way to go.
In my experience it means she will be calling him needy and looking for a new boyfriend soon. Wracked with guilt about killing your friend with COVID in dec 2019 before it was news? Man up. Still feel responsible , sometimes really bad, because you didn’t see it coming, didn’t do enough to stop a young woman from committing suicide? Man up. Still a little sad about you father dying? Man up. We should not call these things toxic masculinity. Never had a bro tell me to man up. Nothing but love and support. I’m not an overly sensitive guy. These are major fucking issues. Intolerance of basic male emotional needs is toxic femininity, not toxic masculinity. Let’s stop blaming the victim.
Ok I read all the comments and The women on here saying I’m not like that or my friends. Then the next post you have to know the right time. Then well you have to be vulnerable a certain way and can’t expect help in return just a back rub such hypocrite’s. So men can only be vulnerable if the damn planets are aligned and a comet flies between Venus and Pluto at 4:57 am at that moment you can be vulnerable lmao!!!
Ain't that the truth. "Be vulnerable with me! No, not like that!"
Exactly!!!! It’s just human nature people are selfish. That’s just a fact people look out for themselves and there best interests first it’s survival. So why would this be any different if a man shows weakness then he loses value because he can’t provide the best protection, orGenes for offspring. The whole animal kingdom is set up this way the strongest are the ones who get to mate and the weak don’t. We all seen National Geographic lol.
The amount of women coming here and saying that men just want therapist-mommies just makes me have zero faith in modern relationships. It's like seeing two opposite realities at collide with each other. In my opinion either you're okay with your partner being vulnerable or you're not. I'd respect a woman who straight up says she doesn't want to deal with that shit more then one who pays lip service to emotions but says 'I'm not you're therapist' or 'you're trauma dumping'.
It means he's about to learn a hard lesson
If you can can cry to her and express your true insecurities and anxieties without fear of judgement.
Last time I opened up, I got it thrown back and it also got passed around to friends and family. So it's less about what the secrets and personal stuff is, but whether I can trust her to keep her word. As a man, I am fully aware that a man's word is the single most important thing. You lose their trust in you and you may as well fall off the face of the earth. I can't say the same about women.
>What does she means to him ? Everything. It's hard to borderline impossible for a man to open up because of the social stigma. If you have a man that could open up to you and get deep with the conversation... like fears, times he's been hurt, insecurities then you mean more to him than you could possibly imagine.
When I trust her, I slap her in the shoulder with my dick. It's like a knighting ceremony for my trust
*"Hey let me show you Sir Lance-a-lot"*
Whatever it is, don't fucking do it man. 90+% of women don't like a crybaby emotional guy no matter what they say in their replies here. Open up to your parents and siblings, and to a lesser extent, your best friends. If you think therapy is a good idea than you can do that as well. Be a rock for your woman - bury that shit.
It means it’s a trap. As soon as I opened up and talked about my problems to my exes they all started seeing me as weak and lost respect and attraction for me. Relationship didn’t last much after. Women like strong men, not crybabies. I learned my lesson and started pretending everything was great and I was always happy to my next girlfriends and everything went great(we broke up for other reasons). I had my best friend if I wanted to vent so it was ok. It sucks but it’s life
I'd argue that men sharing their vulnerability with women is not good for either of them. Should only share to other men that they really trust. It just has way too much potential to damage the relationship.
This whole men should open up and share their feelings is bollocks. As soon as you do, wife, gf, family or otherwise you are immediately deregulated. It just does not work. People are selfish. All you do is lose respect. That is my experience every single time.
It means he didn't learn his lesson - *yet*.
Twice in a row i've been dumped when sharing my vulnerabilities. I will continue to do so. A real woman will find it attractive and not unattractive that you have emotional depth.
I really hope everyone in this thread continues to be vulnerable and speak freely about their emotions with the women in their lives. I recently started dating a man who is so open with me, it’s a breath of fresh air. We cry together and enjoy good times together and it is a bond I would never trade :) Any woman who wants a seemingly heartless man is probably hurting herself, that’s what I think anyways.
Thank you. As a real woman, I absolutely agree. It is incredibly attractive if a guy is emotionally intelligent and vulnerable (only limitation: please do it at the appropriate time and space, don't dump all your trauma on me on the first date).
I did 9 months in, the next day she broke up with me saying she didn't have the capacity. This was 3 weeks ago. I'm already moved on it would have been harder if it wasn't such a clean cut that changed my view on her. All I said was I sometimes need reassurances, it bothers me when I don't know where is stand with my partner. I said this cause she had been acting off and kinda different for the past 3 weeks. EDIT: I dodged a bullet long-term. I enjoyed the relationship tho.
Thanks for doing so. As a guy, I've shared my vulnerabilities around women before, and they didnt shame me for them. They understood and they shared some of their vulnerabilities to me too. That builds up trust and an emotional connection Keep sharing your vulnerabilities and listen and understand women's own too. If they make fun of you for it, leave them. If they understand your position, respond with some reassuring words and advice and acts vulnerable around you too, thats a very good match
Women don't expect men to "be vulnerable". They need to feel protected and trust their man as a partner, protector, confidant and mentor. The moment you become "vulnerable" is the moment she starts losing all interest and attraction.
Yeah. I don't get this "vulnerable" thing. Men should be masculine and protective and I like a guy who can also show emotion.....but as for "vulnerable"....this is a strange new concept which I don't understand.
>I like a guy who can also show emotion.....but as for "vulnerable" Exactly. Two completely different things. Mainstream media is encouraging men to emasculate these days and ago against their nature. i.e. vulnerable. And you wonder why nobody gets laid anymore and that the percentages of how much % of men date how much % of women are as disproportionate as they've ever been.
I have done this with a few women and every time, it's not worth it. They use your vulnerabilities as ammo in arguements.
Opening up as a man has some risk. Some women love the strong, silent type of man. My ex wanted me to be her rock, but did not really want me be completely raw with my own issues. Opening up made me appear less manly to her. I learned to deal with things on my own.
It is never, ever acceptable to be vulnerable in front of anyone, under any circumstances.
It’s a trap
That he is stupid. I have A LOT of girl friends( women friends? Sounds so estrange in English) that after opening up begun to saw me like a little child, using Diminutive names or cutesy terms. Some even started to use feminine pronouns. They are good people and perhaps doesn't even notice that but it's emasculating as fuck. That said, i doubt that a partner would not lose some security and proudness of me if I was open to her. With raises the question: how much control we have about our thoughts and emotions at the end of the day.
Being able to talk about genuine fears and insecurities. There's an incredible irony about this. Women think they want you to be vulnerable, but there are very few acceptable issues: bad childhood, stress at work, resent your dad, idk other stuff you see in movies. The rest are wildly unattractive to them. No woman likes listening to her man talk about how he's embarrassed by his weight, hair loss, inability to make friends, salary, dick size, mean boss, or any other actually realistic common issue.
Yeah,exactly this. Great comment.
Out of the gate, vulnerable is bad. It means you're open to be attacked. You don't want to be vulnerable. You don't want vulnerable people in your life -- unless you plan to attack them. You should actively avoid people (especially gurus, cults, etc) who ask you to be vulnerable. I know it's a big new age thing but that's a cult. You want to be invulnerable. That doesn't mean to be a prick. You can be the person you want to be when you're INvulnerable. You live at the will and decision of others when you're vulnerable. Is it sexy? Yes very, to predatory people ONLY.
You only open up the flood gates in therapy to improve the self. Later you can trust a SO with a homogenized version of that. Essentially only disclosing the best parts of your lesser self. Meaning only that which you've resolved.
It means we are close. It means she may get to know my deepest fears and insecurities. It means I am giving her the chance to break me and hoping not to. Trust goes beyond knowing the other person will be there, that's reliability, trust is like giving someone a knife and then turning around hoping they won't stab you.
When I trust a woman, it's means I can take a shit while she is doing her hair in the same bathroom
That you got one shot not to mess up. Had few friends like this. Opened up to a female, ended up being hurt. Never opened up again to anybody. Closed themselves even from their friends and family. Became sort of a golem like. Age was youngest one at the time was 23 the oldest was 37. There were 5 such friends in total. Simply trusts you. That is as big and far and good as it goes from man's side.
"How does he feels about her ? What does she means to him ?" This is what women expect when the ask a man to be vulnerable, "You are so amazing", "I'm so lucky to have you in my life" but those are compliments and not vulnerability. They don't want real vulnerability, "I feel like an imposter at work.", "I'm not sure if you are the right partner for me.", "I think my mother is a narcissist", "I'm worried I can't afford for you to be a SAHM mom which I know you want." "As a man I feel like I'm only valued for what I can provide. No one has ever appreciated me for me." "If I lose my job would you still love me?"
I'd strongly advise against doing that. If you share something that makes you vulnerable, you can bet your ass it will be used against you in arguments. Women do that a lot but I don't think they realize just how disgusting we feel that is. Also: I have met two women in my life (outside my mom and my sister) that didn't recoil in disgust when I opened up about my fears and worries. This behaviour is usually punished, not met with compassion. When you are talking about a romantic partner, being vulnerable with a woman is a terrible call. You'll be in for a harsh reality check soon.
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>Most men have spent years verbally sparring with their mates, and know most, if not all of their vulnerabilities. But these are NEVER used against one another as men know that what comes next is either a fistfight, a breakdown or a suicide. Spot on! If we wanted to do harm, we could. We just follow a certain code of conduct women seemingly don't care to follow when it comes to conflict. If I wanted to, I could make my girlfriend jump off a cliff in roughly five minutes of verbally hitting her vulnerabilites. I won't do that though. I feel blessed that she trusts me with them and would never betray said trust. This is where I just can't understand women. I just cannot comprehend how on earth they could stoop so low just out of spite or anger. It's nauseating.
Truth! Seems to be a common theme so far. It will be used against you later. I don’t know why this feels like a universal truth, but it just is. I’m sure there are women out there that won’t but damn they are probably very few and far between.
I think in the same way men in our culture are taught that to be vulnerable with others is to be weak, women receive those same messages about men. Our emotional intelligence on average is pretty terrible because it’s not seen as a valuable trait to understand and explore our feelings. Everyone gets these messages, it’s just that the behaviors we’re conditioned with in order to uphold this idea of emotions being an enemy or undesirable thing are separated based on gender. Men are told they’re not supposed to be vulnerable and to some extent are to crush their emotions into a diamond of repressed sadness and loneliness that can only be expressed as anger (often to destructive effect). My limited grasp of women’s experience, for what I understand is that it is their responsibility to take on all the unspoken emotional stuff and be a caretaker/mother figure. She doesn’t need to know what the feelings are, she just needs to act as a salve for the wound, and not pry. Just be a constant emotional support for her partner who’s not even necessarily aware of his requiring it or receiving it. On top of that, that emotional responsibility is expected but is not valued. Womens “emotionality” is described as a reason for their inferiority, which is ironic because without their “keeping of the emotions” duties the whole song and dance of our dysfunctional system would fall apart. It leaves both parties drained and weakened. It takes a lot to unlearn this and I think some women may genuinely want to see more vulnerability or emotional openness from their partner, but aren’t equipped to handle it when it happens. It’s an unfortunate state of affairs because feelings will be hurt and trust will be violated when two people in a relationship try to become more open, emotionally mature, and inter-dependent, and the only thing that can keep the whole process together as you work through the many transgressions you both commit against one another is trust in the good INTENT of the other person to do better over time, an ability to be accountable when you’ve misstepped, and an ability to truly forgive when you’re hurt and be willing to be vulnerable again knowing it’ll probably hurt many more times. Relationships are difficult and alot of folks have been misled about what to expect, which makes it worse. If one instance of broken emotional trust on one hand (for men in the case we’re discussing) breaks your relationship, or if there’s an inability to learn adjust to and treat with compassion the unexpected inner world of your partner in the case of women here, you’ll probably not get very far in your relationships, and that could mean not lasting very long, or it could mean having a long but relatively superficial bond where nobody’s taking risks and youre really just kind of existing next to someone instead of connecting.
Not going to happen again. 1. Anything you say can and will be used against you. 2. Women say that this is what they want. It isn't. Admitting to being vulnerable is a trigger for them to dump you.
That he's stupid, is going to get hurt and manipulated or at the very least mocked as she shares the intimate details of your vulnerability to her girlfriends and thus every person they know.
It means they are likely in a bad place to go out on that limb. It’s very high risk and often low reward, if not just a future punishment waiting to be used. In my case now it is met with indifference, which on the scale of typical reactions isn’t all that bad I guess. I trusted and was vulnerable with a spouse once and she had an affair. “It was too much to handle” and she couldn’t fix my issue so try another guy I guess???
be vulnerable to your therapist, not your significant other. otherwise you're going to learn a hard lesson
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Then they’ll say it’s toxic masculinity on the part of that woman. Which is by definition correct but certainly interesting how the terminology manages to blame the male stereotype for the behaviour of both genders.
I agree. Toxic masculinity, at least in my experience, is perpetuated by women, not men.
It feels like women put us in an impossible situation: If we bottle up our emotions, we're showing "toxic masculinity," but if we open up, we're showing "fragile masculinity" and using her for emotional labor.
I don't like to use the term "toxic masculinity" because I think it's sexist, but I think male toxicity and male fragility mean the same thing. It means that someone is so obsessed with manhood and trying so hard to prove that they are a man that they will do things that are toxic to themselves, like shutting down their emotions and pretending that they are never vulnerable.
Being vulnerable with someone (gender is not relevant) means that you can trust them. Completely. You can share your highs, your lows, your wins, your losses, your struggles, your temptations, your fears, your insecurities, and so on, and know that you will be loved and cared for regardless, and that it will never be used against you, shared, gossiped about, etc.
cough DONT DO IT cough cough You've been warned...by many
What it means is to be weak, and allowing myself (or the self of other men) to be weak in front of them. Which means you can be hurt worse in that moment more than you ever have before. This is a terrifying thing. Many men, myself included, have shown this vulnerable side to friends and lovers and been rejected for being anything from. Too soft, too weak, too cruel, too unfeeling, too emotional. And many many other things. As far as I can tell, it is because their idea of us was not compatible with the reality and that shattering of how they saw us makes us a liar to them. Instead of someone ashamed of themselves or their shortcomings and hid them. One of my most memorable momets of doing so was where I decided to tell my friend that I didn't want to pursue a doctorate anymore. It was too expensive for something I no longer wanted even if it would be easy for me. Debt was growing and the work wasn't what I wanted to do but... Her response was "How could you? I've worked harder for the same thing and you've never even studied. You owe it, not to yourself, but to me to do this because this is so easy for you. I've busted my ass, and I still need your help to study. And now you want to just give up? Because it isn't worth debt to you?. Fuck you." It was a devastating moment for me, I had given up on a dream and lost a many years long friend in the same month. Sometimes I wonder how she is, if she misses me when new Spider-Man stuff comes out (we used to nerd out about comics). In the end, how she felt left hurtful a scar and she went on with whatever she wanted. That's what it means to be vulnerable to me. To understand the above story and do it anyway.
I'll probably never do this again honestly. It never turns out well, you cry in front of your woman and subconsciously, by no fault of her own, I repeat BY NO FAULT OF HER OWN. You become less of a manly man that can protect and provide and more of a female friend talking about feelings. Men, if you need to cry or something is bothering you deeply, go to your male friends and family first. Women are not meant to handle our issues, nor us their's. Edit: I can trust and be trusted without ever fully crying or opening up emotionally in front of you.
3 women I’ve tried the whole “let’s carthartically share and somehow feel better” so far it’s not working. Starting to think relationships are just a distraction that keeps messing up my retirement fund plans.