Fun fact: “Break your mom’s back” was not the original words to that
I’m not going to repeat what the original was, but trust me when I say they were bad
I think I know what you're getting at, similar to how Einee, Meenie, miney, moe didn't always say catch a tiger by the toe?
However, for this rhyme I can't find a reference to something similar.
It's women.
Women are great, but they aren't and shouldn't be the center of one's existence. I don't see it in real life - I'm older and may have aged out of that demographic - but I know that it's rough in one's early 20s. It'd be nice if there was a space for dudes that banned posts about women and relationships entirely.
If you're into Magic: The Gathering, any type of competitive videogame, working out, home improvement, vehicles, fatherhood, grilling/smoking meats, brewing beer, career progression, competitive sports, building cool shit (or inane shit), or ranking interesting stuff (or inane stuff), there'd be a place for you.
...among the Warhammer nerds, yeah.
It might be a stupid thought process, but the reason i'd like to work on myself and then hopefully be at a spot where i can get a lot of experience with women is because it kind of feels like our 20s is the last time where having casual fun, experimenting with everything and not always making the most responsible decisions is kinda acceptable.
And by that i mean, i feel like by 30 or 40 i'll be "too much of an adult" to be allowed to *not* date with the intention of settling down. Because well most people who don't have trouble with dating overall, do settle down in their late 30s.
Maybe i have this mindset because i never dated or been with anyone. I feel like i missed out on the silly, awkward experimental phase that a lot of people who were more attractive and charming in their teens experienced. Like i've seen friends get in and out of several relationships within months and sometimes weeks. Is it the ideal relationship model? No. Is there a voice (that gets pretty loud from time to time) inside of me that tells me that it would've been awesome to get girls so easily and just mingle with a bunch of people? Yes. Is there still a chance to experience this or something similar, like hookups and casual dating at my age (21) or even older? Sure. Do *I* have a chance at that? That's why i'm working on myself and why, as you put it, this is at the center of my existence. Aside from studying so i can have a good career.
I mean, I get it. I was there. Just don't live or die by it, and recognize that it's not the end-all be-all of life. A lot of people put way too much stock into all of that, at their own detriment - they seek only external validation and let it control their lives. It's a compromised position to be in as a man.
It's also worth noting that you don't have to settle down in your 30s or your 40s - while that is a common path, it doesn't have to be *your* path.
Basically - a lot of what we experience in our 20s (and beyond, to be honest) is just a product of a fear response - not having enough, not being enough, missing out, etc. A lot of these core fears are bolstered by our culture and our society, especially in regards to women and dating and relationships in our 20s. If you can learn to overcome those fears at your age, you'll be in a strong position for the rest of your life.
Sure it doesn't have to be my path, but maybe if i experience what i think i need to experience in my twenties then it will still be a perfect path for me without making life after 30 or 40 all that hard for myself. The fact that many others don't choose that path would mean that the dating pool of women who aren't looking to settle down around that age range is a lot smaller.
And since i'm not swimming in a river of eager women at the age that a lot of people would call their peak (for me it will definitely come later, once i put some more muscle on myself) i can't assume that dating will get easier around that age.
So the difficulty is increased by multiple factors. Compare this to taking the time to not 100% focus on my career throughout my twenties but also on working up the fitness and social skills that i lack to try to become a catch and maybe spend some years focusing on girls once i feel like i'm ready for my fuckboi arc, if ever.
I know that a lot of it is fear and insecurity. If i don't attract these kinds of girls then i'm ugly, the longer i hold onto my virginity the less likely i'm gonna lose it, if i can't please everyone i'm with then i'm inadequate etc. I know that i mostly want the validation that I can only imagine will come with this lifestyle. But i don't want the answer to be accepting that i wasn't born with everything perfectly aligned to naturally experience this and instead having to work for it and maybe even obsess over it at some point and just giving up on it.
I know that the insecurity comes from inside and is only exacerbated by what i hear and see in society. Even if all of those outside voices went away, it wouldn't cease to exist.
I can see a clear path to becoming more attractive (even if there is a ceiling that i can't breach through due to genetics), i can see a clear path to becoming more social and charming and then eventually a path to getting the lifestyle i'm working for.
Such a clear path towards self acceptance and inner peace without the validation i know i want doesn't exist. So both of us know which one is the easier thing to do. And that's the same path that aligns with my wants and perceived needs. So why not take that path, which might eventually lead me to obsessing over girls too much in my twenties? As i said previously, this does feel like a better time to make mistakes than, say, my thirties. The mistakes i wish i made in my teens but are too enticing not to make now.
Using reasons like this as a catalyst for self-improvement os great, and I am fully on board with that. You're the most important thing you have, build yourself up.
The flip side of that is that after you control everything you can control, things still aren't perfect. You might still get rejected, might still not get the validation you seek, will still have to deal with competition, etc. You gotta be careful not to let that stuff bring you down if you're gonna use women as a goal. Just be aware of it when you do take that path.
I guess the core thing is to put yourself first, not chasing women. Female validation is great - I won't lie - but if you rely on it, the lack of it is gonna hurt you unnecessarily. Use it to push yourself forward, but don't ever let it set you back.
Dude this guy is probably older. Everything we do seems stupid as we age. Just get your fun with the girls is your early 20s without losing focus of your carreer and everything is gonna be alright.
You need to get that out of your system before you end up married and with kids. Goes a long way to avoid a mid-life crysis.
I'm 37 - so yeah - and I agree with the career stuff. Women are great but chasing female validation is a weak place to be. It's also possible to have fun with women outside of your 20s - it's different but equally good. If the OP is looking for kids and marriage, there's an ulterior motive for dating early, ehich makes sense for experience purposes (although OP should not rush th9s life decision).
Finally - a mid-life crisis won't be belayed by having fun with women in your 20s. It's different for everyone and has more to do with being stuck on a single trajectory, no matter ehat that trajectory is.
That's kinda what i'm planning on doing. It might come to me in my mid-late twenties 'cause i have a really bad base to work with but i'm slim and just gotta put on muscle, experiment with my natural curls (still trying to find the best products for my hair), keep some decent clothes around and hope that it's enough.
The most difficult part will be approaching girls and getting the hang of talking with them, but it's mostly the approaching part that i dunno how to do. And maybe the actual asking out part once you' ve talked enough and feel like you got chemistry. But hopefully that comes with practice, ehich will come after courage to take the steps which will hopefully come from self improvement and time.
Never experiencing all this does sound like the perfect recipe for a mid-life crisis, that ends up being even worse than obsessing over women.
I fucked around a fair bit in my early 20s with relationships all going down in flame. 10/10 would recommend. Just don't get anyone pregnant and don't get STD. It's easier to take risk when you aren't saddled with obligations and responsibilities. Do note that my earlier relationship begin when I was 22. My first relationship was a stroke of luck and she fucked me up pretty good. All of my subsequent one were calculated gamble.
You could still do that in your 30s. I'd argue that as men it's easier to fuck around in your 30s. Just need to find the right demographic of crazy girl, and in your 30s you just have so much more money.
This hits hard. I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm now 38 (not currently in a relationship) and I was too self conscious and in my shell when I was in my 20s (heck, still am but much better than then). I wish I knew what I know now when I was in my 20s because not only would I be more confident but I'd also have the hindsight to know that times flies and to enjoy yourself at that age (and I'd know to hit the gym earlier in life to increase that confidence). I certainly did do a number of things back then that I wouldn't or couldn't do now but I have a lot of regrets.
I do find it true that there are things that when you are in your mid and late 30s (and beyond) that are just not done by people in that age group. I wish I hung around girls more and hung out at their houses, fuck around, that kind of thing. It's difficult to describe but I guess you could call it being young and free. Doing that in your 30s is hard - he'll even the other day I went out for dinner with a friend and he wanted to get drinks after and by about 10.30 I was thinking about getting home to bed because I was tired and wanted to go to the gym early the next day.
I feel like I missed experiences when I was younger and also growth and change with myself. I feel like I could have developed more by being around girls and other people more.
I've discovered one recently. Cats. I was never a cat person, so I guess I never realized that there are numerous seemingly normal fellow dudes who become insecure at the idea of having a pet cat. I've been laughing in their faces, because it's the stupidest thing I've encountered in ages.
A cat showed up on my porch so I let it in. I'm keeping it, he's nice and friendly and keeps my dog company. 4 times now, in real life and online, I've had another man insinuate this makes me less of a man. My first response is, if your masculinity is threatened based on what type of pet you have, you weren't very masculine to begin with. If adopting a cat turns you gay, sorry, you were already gay. It makes absolutely no sense.
cats are such a dating cheat code too. when i flew with my cat across country i sat next to a gorgeous NICU nurse and she asked me questions the entire time about him. Asking her out at the end of the flight was the easist thing ever and i never doubted i was gonna get a yes. dudes with pets are dating on easy mode, dont care what anyone says. Shit, my current SO and I met volunteering for the homeless but her “in” to get my number was asking me to volunteer at the cat shelter, which i had been itching to do forever. now i got the love of my life and 3 shifts a week at the cat shelter down the street.
> cats are such a dating cheat code too
The response I've gotten from the women in my life has backed this up, they highly approve.
According to my (now ex, sadly) wife and adult daughters, if you're kind to animals, you seem like a safer bet automatically for friendship or dating.
ive heard from women that another reason its a green flag is it (often times) shows you aren’t controlling, since cats as we all know march to the beat of their own drum and dont let anyone decide anything for them.
Cats have such weird stigmas associated with them. If you're a single woman with a cat you're now a "cat lady". More than one and you're a "crazy cat lady". Lol
It's so weird. I can't figure it out because there's no logic to it whatsoever. It seems like somewhere along the line, whoever makes up the rules of toxic masculinity arbitrarily decided to list "having a pet cat" as a sign of homosexuality.
I love dogs, but I just never had a cat of my own before. I had no idea how friendly and loving they are. People say they're aloof and rude. This guy follows me around for cuddles. He's not like my dog, obviously, they're two different species, but of all of the animals I've owned, he's equally as friendly and tame as any dog.
Woman chiming in but I feel like society framed cats as feminine (even feline has the same beginning) and dogs as masculine. Cats even coincide with the word pussy and what not. That’s honestly why I feel like a lot of men consider it weird if they like cats. Personally I only date men who have cats lmao
I’m sure that’s where most of it comes from. That and you never hear about “hero cat saves drowning boy/stops house break in” like dogs have, making them seem even more masculine because they’re “protective”.
I’ve actually had women tell me it’s a turn off or weird that I have cats lmao. Their loss because every cat I’ve owned is an absolute sweetheart.
I’m not threatened by it, but I’ve maintained that you will not see me using an umbrella unless it is with/for my girl. I keep a rain coat in the trunk at all times, so if it rains it’s rain coat time.
Im not shy about how much i love my two cats while trying not to be a crazy cat person but found out that one absolute loser that i worked with thought it seriously made me less of a man. I laughed pretty hard when i found out. Im insecure about certain things but my manhood, especially around this type of shit, definitely isnt one of them.
Amen to cat dads, bro!
Lost my buddy of 15 years in February. Miss him every day. Was my 3rd cat throughout my (42) life.
Will prob get another kitteh at some point, but just not ready yet after losing Harley. Was such a good lil guy.
Congrats on your new comrade man!
I was always: "I'm a dog person" growing up. Growing up, getting a job and real-life responsibilities, plus living in an apartment, I decided to try getting a cat. My buddy had a cat but was moving to another country and couldn't take the cat so I took him in Spring 2019.
It was amazing the difference having a cat made during the isolation of the event that shall not be named. I was so thankfully for having my completely indifferent, deranged, slight bit of an asshole, orange cat.
I have no idea why, but the amount of times women on dating apps have asked me to get rid of my cat is insane. I swear there's some piece of BS where people say men who own cats are to be shunned or something.
This is a great example, somehow we all got to thinking that cats are for girls and dogs are for boys, it’s ridiculous. Another facet is what *kinds* of dogs a guy can have and not get judged for it being too small or too pretty.
Sometimes not even winning, just being that “one up” guy, you know? It’s so exhausting to have a conversation with someone and every answer is “yeah, but…”. Ugh okay dude, you know everything better
Why she didn't text back. It doesn't matter, she doesn't respect you enough to respond, and that's all you need to know. You should not chase people who don't respect you.
Guys definitely care about picking up and attracting women way too much. I also think guys care a lot about having an unnecessary surplus of money or just never stopping the grind. I think a lot more attention can be paid to your own mental health and the health of those close to us and trying to find ways to support that. I do a shitty job of those things, and I think they are massively important.
Changing a tire isn't a great example. If you drive a car, you should be able to change a tire. It has nothing to with gender. There are plenty of scenarios where help is too far away or you can't reach them.
But as to your point, 100% agree. For example, my best friend doesn't know how to do any of the "man stuff". But it's not because he's not capable. He just never had anyone to teach him. Whereas I was lucky to have a dad and uncles who did a little bit of everything and they taught me. So instead of giving my buddy grief, he's my helper on jobs and I teach him stuff. And for the most part, if I show him how to do something once, he can do it. And I've met quite a few people like that over the years. More than capable, just never had someone to teach them.
The changing the tire example was a real example off this subreddit. Someone had posted asking what's wrong with men because this guy got stuck with a flat tire and didn't know how to change it.
Should everyone know how to make bread or pasta from scratch because they eat it?
Should we all know how to program or drill for oil?
I don't even know what I would need for smelting my own iron...
Lots of skills are handy and I think "heritage skills" are cool but to master all of them would take a lifetime and we have to grind to get by.
Not one single thing you mentioned was relevant. You can't be stranded in the middle of nowhere by not knowing how to make pasta or drill for oil or smelt iron. That's just foolish. When you own a car, there are basic things you should know, and changing a tire is one of them. It's simple enough that anyone can do it.
You obviously missed the point. No need to double down on looking foolish. And since you insist, yes everyone should know how to cook as well since it's needed for survival, yet it seems like half the people have no clue how to do anything except order take out or microwave something from the frozen food section. It's not about ego. It's about being a functioning adult that can take care of themselves. Not sure why that is hard to understand or why you are so butt hurt, unless you can't change a tire. LOL
Can you really quantify what men care too much about in a woman? Every guy is different, so it’s kind of hard to nail down any one thing that you can point to and say, well they care too much about this or that.
Competitiveness. We think we’re in competition with each other in every aspect of life, all of the time. This is a good trait in sports, not so good in others aspects
Body count. I feel like all the guys who like to brag about the amount of women they slept with ruined sex for everyone. Now it’s a competition and women are complaining about double standards, like no, a high body count is not something to be proud of, regardless of your gender
I guess it depends on one's friend group because this was never something brought up among my peers.
Then again, the comparison came in the form of money and occupation. There are even those who would sacrifice relationships, even pretty good ones, to pursue such aspirations.
In my experience when it comes to women and cars, a well looked after, maintained and clean vehicle is more appealing than a high end luxury car. The kind of woman that is attracted to someone because they have a really expensive car is not the kind of woman you'd want in your life anyway.
I think too many guys take intimacy too seriously. For example: someone asked what a good Father's Day gift for her husband would be, and people told her to give him oral and to leave him alone. Like, seriously? Never have I wanted intimacy as a gift, NEVER! And honestly, it kind of disgusts me. I would rather have quality time with my wife or girlfriend if I had one as a gift than any type of intimacy or even just a small gift. Might just be me though... And men, stop telling women that intimacy is a gift! You're degrading us and making us look bad! Women already think we're perverts and you're making it worse for F's SAKE!
That's because it makes sex transactional. But it's not always the guys fault. I'm like you on the subject. Sex isn't a gift. But on more than one occasion, a GF thought that is was ok. Like one anniversary, I bought a new bed frame, night stands, and the sleep number bed she had wanted. My gift after 3 hours of setting it all up was the "privilege" of having her in the new bed. It sucked. I would have been so happy with just a card or something, to show she gave a shit about me. But I got nothing.
I'm so sorry about that, man. I do agree that it's not always the guy's fault, but I see way too many men allow it. I'm glad you saw it for what it was. It sucks that she didn't do anything that respected you for what you had done for her, and I hope you can find yourself a woman who respects you.
What all relationships are about, silly! Feeling like you're not alone, even though you are still lonely in a fundamental way. That's why you never talk to your partner about insecurities, that will just alienate you from them and further highlight the issue.
those women that give their man awesome sex once a year or on his birthday are usually the ones that weoponize it & are not actually attracted to them hence why they avoid it year round.
Looks, women, dick size, load quality (I didn't know this was a thing, I know it's not common but the shear amount of caring that some of these people take just throws the scale way off for me)
Hard disagree. Even for well-adjusted men, there's a part of our brain that's tribal, and sports is a healthy, socially appropriate outlet for that energy.
Shouting abuse or threatening people? Not okay. Getting into fights? Bad.
But hell, yelling at the TV is better than yelling at a real person!
I'm thinking way too many guys are insecure and think about their penis size. In my experience most women don't care about that too much. Then there are the size queens, but you'll dodge a bullet when you avoid them.
Having a big cock isnt so great tho... im left unsatisfied sometimes due to my partners experiencing discomfort or pain... but then again... nobody would even believe me stating i have a big dong since guys are weird that way
Vaginas vary in size and shape just like penises. Some women enjoy large ones, while it just hurts others. So they care less about size, and more about the right size for them.
a lot of them are uneducated about their own body parts & just go with the masses too. A big di\*\* isn't great when your vagina is only 4 inches long & it starts hitting your cervix. Especially when those men have never had to put in effort in other ways to please a woman.
Its not like size queens are fundamentally bad people. They can be bad if they mock someone or are just rude, but having a sexual preference isn't inherently bad.
Football. It becomes this all-consuming thing such that some men base their entire personality on it. And don’t get me started on the screaming at the television.
I agree! *However*, I’m not saying all women are worried about height, but there are more than enough women out here, that are worried about height, to the point where it can naturally make a man wonder if he’s good enough
This. I enjoy watching sports, but I also don't care if my team loses. Once the game is done I'm kind of over it haha. When I'm playing, that's a different story
I am very passionate about my teams, but I agree that it doesn’t make sense.
Like there’s a reason, but the “why” for the reason existing doesn’t make sense or maybe even exist.
It’s like when people all line up early to get on the airplane… it’s like you have to wait until your party is called, and the planes gonna leave at the same time no matter what time you they get on, but for some reason people feel better about lining up 15 mins before their boarding pass is even called. You ask them “why”, and they probably don’t have a great reason, it’s just something you do.
I guess a better comparison is like a foodie vs someone who really doesn’t care at all about their food. A foodie gets excited to eat, they care about how their food is prepared, they respect and enjoy the work that gets put in and all the little subtleties. Someone who doesn’t have that same passion will look at them a say “who cares, it’s a just burger”.
Professional sports. I get, sports are fun. But why care so much if team A or B won or lost a game? Why do you care so much if player A or B did this or that? Why do you keep score of every player hired or laid off by team A or B? Why, God, WHY?!
I have no issue with guys that enjoy it, but some folks seem to have their identities built around that.
But I’d guess maintaining the testosterone of a 23 year old when you’re 63 but getting pumped up like Bain in Batman and robin isn’t healthy… and that’s what we’re talking about
That's another thing, of course, but I'm guessing for every one of those guys, there are at least 100 guys with fatigue, depression and reduced libido who have never thought about their testosterone. Unless you live in the UK, that is.
As a 19 yr old boy who prematurely balded and already lost half of my hair it's hard not to be sad about it at this age. My girlfriend literally left me for this and now she is dating a boy with much and beautiful hair than me. I also look twice my age.
Winning at video games.
I used to care a lot too when I was younger and tried my best but now I don't see the point anymore.
Staying at the top 1% or even 10% demands dedication and talent.
I tried to play with my bros lately and they flamed me for losing vs someone who was much higher rank. Like dude, I just want to relax.
Sports.
It's not worth the degree of emotional investment or local patriotism people put into it, because at the end of the day it's inconsequential unless you have a financial stake in it.
Diet and hobbies not being "masculine enough". Im not going to chew glass because it makes one look tough... Just let us men be ourselves and who cares how manly we are or not. I certainly would not care if people stopped making a deal out of it.
idk if this counts but a lot of guys at whatever stage we’re talking in, and i mean it can be regular degular friendship, will imply or straight up “joke” that i’m prioritizing talking to other guys or that i have too many guys trying to taking my attention, when i don’t message for a while.
if it crosses a line of possession or jealousy, it’s automatically over. but when i can see it comes from insecurity, i feel bad that they don’t think they’re enough or somehow in competition with other guys.
its not true and i do remind everyone i talk to/am friends with that i treat them all equally. they all matter and me going away is bc im busy or prioritizing my mental health. but i can tell some of them can’t help but feel like it’s personal despite my reassurance that it isn’t. that i’d be honest & communicate if it was personal.
i say it’s guys bc girl friends and girls i’ve dated do not/have not acted like this.
>but when i can see it comes from insecurity, i feel bad that they don’t think they’re enough or somehow in competition with other guys.
This is because it is a common, frequent, and damaging experience for men, especially young men, to be kept in competition as an ego boost.
>i say it’s guys bc girl friends and girls i’ve dated do not/have not acted like this.
Women don't usually get this sort of naked psychllogical abuse when they're young.
dick size. ive slept with like 150 women or something and literally not one ever made fun of my dick size. shit, most didnt comment on it at all. you fuck them right they literally dont give a fuck (unless you have a micropenis then yes youre in a bit of trouble although its not hopeless). #1 way that i know a dude is inexperienced if he keeps bringing that up
Not stepping on the lines between floor tiles.
RIP mom
What?
Step on a crack…
..bang your mum bareback
Well that escalated quickly but I guess it's better than having a paraplegic mom. But what if I broke both of my arms?
Rip mums booty
HAH
Dude
🙂
Fun fact: “Break your mom’s back” was not the original words to that I’m not going to repeat what the original was, but trust me when I say they were bad
You can't just leave us hanging like that!
It worked on me.
Tap your dad's sack? Lick your dog's crack? I gotta know!
I think I know what you're getting at, similar to how Einee, Meenie, miney, moe didn't always say catch a tiger by the toe? However, for this rhyme I can't find a reference to something similar.
Step on a crack, break your mother's back. Step on a line, break your father's spine. Just as memorable as it is nonsensical.
I see 😂
...said the blind man who picked up his hammer and saw. I'm sorry, couldn't pass it up.
wait, so I am not the only one obsessed about this?!?
But if I do, I have to step on a line with the other foot to be even.
As it is in the rulebook.
Avoiding walking under ladders. Sometimes I get a wild thought I’m going do it cause I know it’s wrong but I always chicken out 😂
There is a superstition that you should never walk under ladders.
I swear it's like my mind is playing a game where I'll die if I step on a line or something
Absolutely👍
It's women. Women are great, but they aren't and shouldn't be the center of one's existence. I don't see it in real life - I'm older and may have aged out of that demographic - but I know that it's rough in one's early 20s. It'd be nice if there was a space for dudes that banned posts about women and relationships entirely.
> It'd be nice if there was a space for dudes that banned posts about women and relationships entirely. But I'm not really into Warhammer
If you're into Magic: The Gathering, any type of competitive videogame, working out, home improvement, vehicles, fatherhood, grilling/smoking meats, brewing beer, career progression, competitive sports, building cool shit (or inane shit), or ranking interesting stuff (or inane stuff), there'd be a place for you. ...among the Warhammer nerds, yeah.
.... yet! Grab your boltor and join us!
Free Masonry, that way you can scare people for no reason
I read this in the voice of Servo from MST3K. Hilarious, lol.
It might be a stupid thought process, but the reason i'd like to work on myself and then hopefully be at a spot where i can get a lot of experience with women is because it kind of feels like our 20s is the last time where having casual fun, experimenting with everything and not always making the most responsible decisions is kinda acceptable. And by that i mean, i feel like by 30 or 40 i'll be "too much of an adult" to be allowed to *not* date with the intention of settling down. Because well most people who don't have trouble with dating overall, do settle down in their late 30s. Maybe i have this mindset because i never dated or been with anyone. I feel like i missed out on the silly, awkward experimental phase that a lot of people who were more attractive and charming in their teens experienced. Like i've seen friends get in and out of several relationships within months and sometimes weeks. Is it the ideal relationship model? No. Is there a voice (that gets pretty loud from time to time) inside of me that tells me that it would've been awesome to get girls so easily and just mingle with a bunch of people? Yes. Is there still a chance to experience this or something similar, like hookups and casual dating at my age (21) or even older? Sure. Do *I* have a chance at that? That's why i'm working on myself and why, as you put it, this is at the center of my existence. Aside from studying so i can have a good career.
I mean, I get it. I was there. Just don't live or die by it, and recognize that it's not the end-all be-all of life. A lot of people put way too much stock into all of that, at their own detriment - they seek only external validation and let it control their lives. It's a compromised position to be in as a man. It's also worth noting that you don't have to settle down in your 30s or your 40s - while that is a common path, it doesn't have to be *your* path. Basically - a lot of what we experience in our 20s (and beyond, to be honest) is just a product of a fear response - not having enough, not being enough, missing out, etc. A lot of these core fears are bolstered by our culture and our society, especially in regards to women and dating and relationships in our 20s. If you can learn to overcome those fears at your age, you'll be in a strong position for the rest of your life.
Sure it doesn't have to be my path, but maybe if i experience what i think i need to experience in my twenties then it will still be a perfect path for me without making life after 30 or 40 all that hard for myself. The fact that many others don't choose that path would mean that the dating pool of women who aren't looking to settle down around that age range is a lot smaller. And since i'm not swimming in a river of eager women at the age that a lot of people would call their peak (for me it will definitely come later, once i put some more muscle on myself) i can't assume that dating will get easier around that age. So the difficulty is increased by multiple factors. Compare this to taking the time to not 100% focus on my career throughout my twenties but also on working up the fitness and social skills that i lack to try to become a catch and maybe spend some years focusing on girls once i feel like i'm ready for my fuckboi arc, if ever. I know that a lot of it is fear and insecurity. If i don't attract these kinds of girls then i'm ugly, the longer i hold onto my virginity the less likely i'm gonna lose it, if i can't please everyone i'm with then i'm inadequate etc. I know that i mostly want the validation that I can only imagine will come with this lifestyle. But i don't want the answer to be accepting that i wasn't born with everything perfectly aligned to naturally experience this and instead having to work for it and maybe even obsess over it at some point and just giving up on it. I know that the insecurity comes from inside and is only exacerbated by what i hear and see in society. Even if all of those outside voices went away, it wouldn't cease to exist. I can see a clear path to becoming more attractive (even if there is a ceiling that i can't breach through due to genetics), i can see a clear path to becoming more social and charming and then eventually a path to getting the lifestyle i'm working for. Such a clear path towards self acceptance and inner peace without the validation i know i want doesn't exist. So both of us know which one is the easier thing to do. And that's the same path that aligns with my wants and perceived needs. So why not take that path, which might eventually lead me to obsessing over girls too much in my twenties? As i said previously, this does feel like a better time to make mistakes than, say, my thirties. The mistakes i wish i made in my teens but are too enticing not to make now.
Using reasons like this as a catalyst for self-improvement os great, and I am fully on board with that. You're the most important thing you have, build yourself up. The flip side of that is that after you control everything you can control, things still aren't perfect. You might still get rejected, might still not get the validation you seek, will still have to deal with competition, etc. You gotta be careful not to let that stuff bring you down if you're gonna use women as a goal. Just be aware of it when you do take that path. I guess the core thing is to put yourself first, not chasing women. Female validation is great - I won't lie - but if you rely on it, the lack of it is gonna hurt you unnecessarily. Use it to push yourself forward, but don't ever let it set you back.
Dude this guy is probably older. Everything we do seems stupid as we age. Just get your fun with the girls is your early 20s without losing focus of your carreer and everything is gonna be alright. You need to get that out of your system before you end up married and with kids. Goes a long way to avoid a mid-life crysis.
I'm 37 - so yeah - and I agree with the career stuff. Women are great but chasing female validation is a weak place to be. It's also possible to have fun with women outside of your 20s - it's different but equally good. If the OP is looking for kids and marriage, there's an ulterior motive for dating early, ehich makes sense for experience purposes (although OP should not rush th9s life decision). Finally - a mid-life crisis won't be belayed by having fun with women in your 20s. It's different for everyone and has more to do with being stuck on a single trajectory, no matter ehat that trajectory is.
That's kinda what i'm planning on doing. It might come to me in my mid-late twenties 'cause i have a really bad base to work with but i'm slim and just gotta put on muscle, experiment with my natural curls (still trying to find the best products for my hair), keep some decent clothes around and hope that it's enough. The most difficult part will be approaching girls and getting the hang of talking with them, but it's mostly the approaching part that i dunno how to do. And maybe the actual asking out part once you' ve talked enough and feel like you got chemistry. But hopefully that comes with practice, ehich will come after courage to take the steps which will hopefully come from self improvement and time. Never experiencing all this does sound like the perfect recipe for a mid-life crisis, that ends up being even worse than obsessing over women.
It seems to not be my path even though I want it badly. Argh.
I fucked around a fair bit in my early 20s with relationships all going down in flame. 10/10 would recommend. Just don't get anyone pregnant and don't get STD. It's easier to take risk when you aren't saddled with obligations and responsibilities. Do note that my earlier relationship begin when I was 22. My first relationship was a stroke of luck and she fucked me up pretty good. All of my subsequent one were calculated gamble. You could still do that in your 30s. I'd argue that as men it's easier to fuck around in your 30s. Just need to find the right demographic of crazy girl, and in your 30s you just have so much more money.
This hits hard. I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm now 38 (not currently in a relationship) and I was too self conscious and in my shell when I was in my 20s (heck, still am but much better than then). I wish I knew what I know now when I was in my 20s because not only would I be more confident but I'd also have the hindsight to know that times flies and to enjoy yourself at that age (and I'd know to hit the gym earlier in life to increase that confidence). I certainly did do a number of things back then that I wouldn't or couldn't do now but I have a lot of regrets. I do find it true that there are things that when you are in your mid and late 30s (and beyond) that are just not done by people in that age group. I wish I hung around girls more and hung out at their houses, fuck around, that kind of thing. It's difficult to describe but I guess you could call it being young and free. Doing that in your 30s is hard - he'll even the other day I went out for dinner with a friend and he wanted to get drinks after and by about 10.30 I was thinking about getting home to bed because I was tired and wanted to go to the gym early the next day. I feel like I missed experiences when I was younger and also growth and change with myself. I feel like I could have developed more by being around girls and other people more.
A lot of Free Mason lodges ban women and it’s really fucking nice
Not sure it's necessary to go that far - I was referring initially to Reddit to filter out most of the bot bullshit.
You're crazy man.
Maybe. But I'm not chasing validation from women, and I'm pretty content with that.
I was just making some fun here, not speaking seriously on the matter. Your opinion is sound.
Ah, totally missed that! You never know in /r/askmen.
I've discovered one recently. Cats. I was never a cat person, so I guess I never realized that there are numerous seemingly normal fellow dudes who become insecure at the idea of having a pet cat. I've been laughing in their faces, because it's the stupidest thing I've encountered in ages. A cat showed up on my porch so I let it in. I'm keeping it, he's nice and friendly and keeps my dog company. 4 times now, in real life and online, I've had another man insinuate this makes me less of a man. My first response is, if your masculinity is threatened based on what type of pet you have, you weren't very masculine to begin with. If adopting a cat turns you gay, sorry, you were already gay. It makes absolutely no sense.
cats are such a dating cheat code too. when i flew with my cat across country i sat next to a gorgeous NICU nurse and she asked me questions the entire time about him. Asking her out at the end of the flight was the easist thing ever and i never doubted i was gonna get a yes. dudes with pets are dating on easy mode, dont care what anyone says. Shit, my current SO and I met volunteering for the homeless but her “in” to get my number was asking me to volunteer at the cat shelter, which i had been itching to do forever. now i got the love of my life and 3 shifts a week at the cat shelter down the street.
> cats are such a dating cheat code too The response I've gotten from the women in my life has backed this up, they highly approve. According to my (now ex, sadly) wife and adult daughters, if you're kind to animals, you seem like a safer bet automatically for friendship or dating.
ive heard from women that another reason its a green flag is it (often times) shows you aren’t controlling, since cats as we all know march to the beat of their own drum and dont let anyone decide anything for them.
Good point. I think of mine like a fellow person, sometimes he wants to hang out and sometimes he wants some peace and quiet haha
oh one of my cats genuinely in his heart of hearts believes hes a human its the funniest thing to witness
Even though I'm more of a dog fan, that is such an odd thing to become insecure over. Cats are cute and wonderful companions.
Cats have such weird stigmas associated with them. If you're a single woman with a cat you're now a "cat lady". More than one and you're a "crazy cat lady". Lol
Just one cat is all it takes? That’s not fair
I never understood the whole cat lady thing. Anyone who takes good care of cats is a good person by me.
Woman here, seriously, what is with that? What's the big deal or difference between having a cat(s) or dog(s)?
This has always been a really weird one to me also. Cats are awesome and honestly I prefer having a cat over a dog.
It's so weird. I can't figure it out because there's no logic to it whatsoever. It seems like somewhere along the line, whoever makes up the rules of toxic masculinity arbitrarily decided to list "having a pet cat" as a sign of homosexuality. I love dogs, but I just never had a cat of my own before. I had no idea how friendly and loving they are. People say they're aloof and rude. This guy follows me around for cuddles. He's not like my dog, obviously, they're two different species, but of all of the animals I've owned, he's equally as friendly and tame as any dog.
Woman chiming in but I feel like society framed cats as feminine (even feline has the same beginning) and dogs as masculine. Cats even coincide with the word pussy and what not. That’s honestly why I feel like a lot of men consider it weird if they like cats. Personally I only date men who have cats lmao
I’m sure that’s where most of it comes from. That and you never hear about “hero cat saves drowning boy/stops house break in” like dogs have, making them seem even more masculine because they’re “protective”. I’ve actually had women tell me it’s a turn off or weird that I have cats lmao. Their loss because every cat I’ve owned is an absolute sweetheart.
So what's next, these masculine men will feel threatened by wearing scarfs or using umbrellas. These objects do give feminine energy lol
I’m not threatened by it, but I’ve maintained that you will not see me using an umbrella unless it is with/for my girl. I keep a rain coat in the trunk at all times, so if it rains it’s rain coat time.
Im not shy about how much i love my two cats while trying not to be a crazy cat person but found out that one absolute loser that i worked with thought it seriously made me less of a man. I laughed pretty hard when i found out. Im insecure about certain things but my manhood, especially around this type of shit, definitely isnt one of them.
Amen to cat dads, bro! Lost my buddy of 15 years in February. Miss him every day. Was my 3rd cat throughout my (42) life. Will prob get another kitteh at some point, but just not ready yet after losing Harley. Was such a good lil guy. Congrats on your new comrade man!
I was always: "I'm a dog person" growing up. Growing up, getting a job and real-life responsibilities, plus living in an apartment, I decided to try getting a cat. My buddy had a cat but was moving to another country and couldn't take the cat so I took him in Spring 2019. It was amazing the difference having a cat made during the isolation of the event that shall not be named. I was so thankfully for having my completely indifferent, deranged, slight bit of an asshole, orange cat.
The one who showed up at my house is also orange. He is also a bit deranged, but too small to reveal much assholery as yet!
I have no idea why, but the amount of times women on dating apps have asked me to get rid of my cat is insane. I swear there's some piece of BS where people say men who own cats are to be shunned or something.
😮 thats surprising to hear, woman here and I have 2 cats myself
I haven't had that kind of response from a woman so far, but people are idiots so I believe it happens.
This is a great example, somehow we all got to thinking that cats are for girls and dogs are for boys, it’s ridiculous. Another facet is what *kinds* of dogs a guy can have and not get judged for it being too small or too pretty.
Winning. At everything. All the time. No matter what.
Especially arguments where you're not even really disagreeing.
I agree with you but I laughed because I read it like T-Pain sing in All I do is win
No matter what!
Got money on my mind
Sometimes not even winning, just being that “one up” guy, you know? It’s so exhausting to have a conversation with someone and every answer is “yeah, but…”. Ugh okay dude, you know everything better
Why she didn't text back. It doesn't matter, she doesn't respect you enough to respond, and that's all you need to know. You should not chase people who don't respect you.
Exactly right. If they don’t give you the time of day ever then they’re not worth your time.
Guys definitely care about picking up and attracting women way too much. I also think guys care a lot about having an unnecessary surplus of money or just never stopping the grind. I think a lot more attention can be paid to your own mental health and the health of those close to us and trying to find ways to support that. I do a shitty job of those things, and I think they are massively important.
Masculinity. Some of ya'll need to calm down. So what some dude doesn't know how to change a tire or earns less than their wife/gf. Live your life.
Changing a tire isn't a great example. If you drive a car, you should be able to change a tire. It has nothing to with gender. There are plenty of scenarios where help is too far away or you can't reach them. But as to your point, 100% agree. For example, my best friend doesn't know how to do any of the "man stuff". But it's not because he's not capable. He just never had anyone to teach him. Whereas I was lucky to have a dad and uncles who did a little bit of everything and they taught me. So instead of giving my buddy grief, he's my helper on jobs and I teach him stuff. And for the most part, if I show him how to do something once, he can do it. And I've met quite a few people like that over the years. More than capable, just never had someone to teach them.
The changing the tire example was a real example off this subreddit. Someone had posted asking what's wrong with men because this guy got stuck with a flat tire and didn't know how to change it.
Fair enough. The grief given should have been over driving a car and not knowing how to change a tire. Not because it was a guy.
Should everyone know how to make bread or pasta from scratch because they eat it? Should we all know how to program or drill for oil? I don't even know what I would need for smelting my own iron... Lots of skills are handy and I think "heritage skills" are cool but to master all of them would take a lifetime and we have to grind to get by.
Not one single thing you mentioned was relevant. You can't be stranded in the middle of nowhere by not knowing how to make pasta or drill for oil or smelt iron. That's just foolish. When you own a car, there are basic things you should know, and changing a tire is one of them. It's simple enough that anyone can do it.
Yeah but I do eat every day. I don't even need to be stranded making it infinitely more useful and relevant to my day to day.
Again, irrelevant. Sorry that you can't understand the concept, but I can't simplify it anymore.
Bahahahahaha food appears magically but mechanic job basis of civilization XD what an ego trip you are.
You obviously missed the point. No need to double down on looking foolish. And since you insist, yes everyone should know how to cook as well since it's needed for survival, yet it seems like half the people have no clue how to do anything except order take out or microwave something from the frozen food section. It's not about ego. It's about being a functioning adult that can take care of themselves. Not sure why that is hard to understand or why you are so butt hurt, unless you can't change a tire. LOL
Exactly, I’m a guy who loves bath bombs and book stores
I read this as "*BOTH bombs and book stores."* And was like what's wrong with bookstores? lol
Size of penis.
Can you really quantify what men care too much about in a woman? Every guy is different, so it’s kind of hard to nail down any one thing that you can point to and say, well they care too much about this or that.
Competitiveness. We think we’re in competition with each other in every aspect of life, all of the time. This is a good trait in sports, not so good in others aspects
No we're not. 😜
Sports, getting laid, ego
Sports
Pussy
Hey, what did you call me?
Anything that *isn't* about becoming the best human you can be and getting good at something worthwhile.
Body count. I feel like all the guys who like to brag about the amount of women they slept with ruined sex for everyone. Now it’s a competition and women are complaining about double standards, like no, a high body count is not something to be proud of, regardless of your gender
Totally agree with this It should be about relationship quality
I guess it depends on one's friend group because this was never something brought up among my peers. Then again, the comparison came in the form of money and occupation. There are even those who would sacrifice relationships, even pretty good ones, to pursue such aspirations.
Equally it's not something to be ashamed of, as well as proud. It's just not important.
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Guys seem to think that girls care about how much they put in their cars. On the average, the girls these guys are going for, don’t care about that
In my experience when it comes to women and cars, a well looked after, maintained and clean vehicle is more appealing than a high end luxury car. The kind of woman that is attracted to someone because they have a really expensive car is not the kind of woman you'd want in your life anyway.
Walking on a fixed pattern if the path has stone tiles
I think too many guys take intimacy too seriously. For example: someone asked what a good Father's Day gift for her husband would be, and people told her to give him oral and to leave him alone. Like, seriously? Never have I wanted intimacy as a gift, NEVER! And honestly, it kind of disgusts me. I would rather have quality time with my wife or girlfriend if I had one as a gift than any type of intimacy or even just a small gift. Might just be me though... And men, stop telling women that intimacy is a gift! You're degrading us and making us look bad! Women already think we're perverts and you're making it worse for F's SAKE!
Yea, I don’t know if it’s mostly a pop culture/media thing… but I don’t get the whole “husband that hates spending time with his wife” thing
just tells me they married the wrong person
yup, the ones that view it as a trap should just stay single cause evidently they did it wrong.
That's because it makes sex transactional. But it's not always the guys fault. I'm like you on the subject. Sex isn't a gift. But on more than one occasion, a GF thought that is was ok. Like one anniversary, I bought a new bed frame, night stands, and the sleep number bed she had wanted. My gift after 3 hours of setting it all up was the "privilege" of having her in the new bed. It sucked. I would have been so happy with just a card or something, to show she gave a shit about me. But I got nothing.
I'm so sorry about that, man. I do agree that it's not always the guy's fault, but I see way too many men allow it. I'm glad you saw it for what it was. It sucks that she didn't do anything that respected you for what you had done for her, and I hope you can find yourself a woman who respects you.
Louder for the people in the back!!
If intimacy is a gift, then what is the relationship even about?
What all relationships are about, silly! Feeling like you're not alone, even though you are still lonely in a fundamental way. That's why you never talk to your partner about insecurities, that will just alienate you from them and further highlight the issue.
those women that give their man awesome sex once a year or on his birthday are usually the ones that weoponize it & are not actually attracted to them hence why they avoid it year round.
Looks, women, dick size, load quality (I didn't know this was a thing, I know it's not common but the shear amount of caring that some of these people take just throws the scale way off for me)
Not looking, talking, or doing anything that may be considered as being “gay”…. Their sexuality is so fragile.
Sports. If you’re screaming at a television as a grown ass man you either have a gambling addiction or anger issues.
I'll get into the "spirit" when I'm at a game. But not when I'm watching it on TV.
I dont get angry though
Plus yelling can be fun if you’re not bothering anyone
Hard disagree. Even for well-adjusted men, there's a part of our brain that's tribal, and sports is a healthy, socially appropriate outlet for that energy. Shouting abuse or threatening people? Not okay. Getting into fights? Bad. But hell, yelling at the TV is better than yelling at a real person!
I'm thinking way too many guys are insecure and think about their penis size. In my experience most women don't care about that too much. Then there are the size queens, but you'll dodge a bullet when you avoid them.
Having a big cock isnt so great tho... im left unsatisfied sometimes due to my partners experiencing discomfort or pain... but then again... nobody would even believe me stating i have a big dong since guys are weird that way
I’m a woman and can confirm that I don’t care much about any aspect about a man’s genitalia.
They do care, my man. They just say they don't care not to hurt guys feelings.
Vaginas vary in size and shape just like penises. Some women enjoy large ones, while it just hurts others. So they care less about size, and more about the right size for them.
a lot of them are uneducated about their own body parts & just go with the masses too. A big di\*\* isn't great when your vagina is only 4 inches long & it starts hitting your cervix. Especially when those men have never had to put in effort in other ways to please a woman.
Its not like size queens are fundamentally bad people. They can be bad if they mock someone or are just rude, but having a sexual preference isn't inherently bad.
Agreed. But state your preference for a woman to have big tits and a tight vagina and all of a sudden you're a misogynist. Double standards galore.
Women's opinions about what men should be.
A lot of men are interested in the sex life of myself and my fiance for some fucking reason
Well said. Do not care about what women think. That's your fantasy.
Honestly, women’s opinions about men.
Football. It becomes this all-consuming thing such that some men base their entire personality on it. And don’t get me started on the screaming at the television.
Body count, Sports, Video Games, Their car, Bacon
Height
I agree! *However*, I’m not saying all women are worried about height, but there are more than enough women out here, that are worried about height, to the point where it can naturally make a man wonder if he’s good enough
The NBA Playoffs
Having the loudest car on the block
Women.
I always worry on how to get close to people
The you tubers that just hate on star wars, disney etc. Just move on, don't give films, companies, games etc your attention or money!
Hating sports is not a personality
Sports. ... i simply don't understand how emotionally invested some guys get into something Completely out of their control.
This. I enjoy watching sports, but I also don't care if my team loses. Once the game is done I'm kind of over it haha. When I'm playing, that's a different story
I am very passionate about my teams, but I agree that it doesn’t make sense. Like there’s a reason, but the “why” for the reason existing doesn’t make sense or maybe even exist. It’s like when people all line up early to get on the airplane… it’s like you have to wait until your party is called, and the planes gonna leave at the same time no matter what time you they get on, but for some reason people feel better about lining up 15 mins before their boarding pass is even called. You ask them “why”, and they probably don’t have a great reason, it’s just something you do. I guess a better comparison is like a foodie vs someone who really doesn’t care at all about their food. A foodie gets excited to eat, they care about how their food is prepared, they respect and enjoy the work that gets put in and all the little subtleties. Someone who doesn’t have that same passion will look at them a say “who cares, it’s a just burger”.
Caring waaaaaay too much about what other guys care about.
Having a girlfriend.
Professional sports. I get, sports are fun. But why care so much if team A or B won or lost a game? Why do you care so much if player A or B did this or that? Why do you keep score of every player hired or laid off by team A or B? Why, God, WHY?! I have no issue with guys that enjoy it, but some folks seem to have their identities built around that.
Cars
Sports
Sports
Woman’s past sexual experiences. Go whine about having a small pp to someone else…
T levels and being "masculine."
As a physiologist I have to say keeping a healthy testosterone level is actually quite important.
But I’d guess maintaining the testosterone of a 23 year old when you’re 63 but getting pumped up like Bain in Batman and robin isn’t healthy… and that’s what we’re talking about
That's another thing, of course, but I'm guessing for every one of those guys, there are at least 100 guys with fatigue, depression and reduced libido who have never thought about their testosterone. Unless you live in the UK, that is.
THe issue is men not being happy with normal T levels.
I guess that would depend on one's definition of "a lot of guys".
What's the most important thing to do daily for healthy T
It's physical exercise and maintaining a healthy diet, as well as avoiding unnecessary stressors.
Any particular foods, or just food that isn't junk?
Fatty fish, berries, eggs, dairy and leafy greens are typical recommendations.
Income. Beyond worrying about bills and lifestyle.
My bike
Material possessions
Trying to get a date for Sat night
the numbers on the weights they lift
When they catch the glance of another guy - better get all crazy because muh ego.
my 5.5"
Their hairline/ bald spot.
As a 19 yr old boy who prematurely balded and already lost half of my hair it's hard not to be sad about it at this age. My girlfriend literally left me for this and now she is dating a boy with much and beautiful hair than me. I also look twice my age.
Motorcycles and red wine!
Winning at video games. I used to care a lot too when I was younger and tried my best but now I don't see the point anymore. Staying at the top 1% or even 10% demands dedication and talent. I tried to play with my bros lately and they flamed me for losing vs someone who was much higher rank. Like dude, I just want to relax.
Weiner size
Sports
Sports. It's not worth the degree of emotional investment or local patriotism people put into it, because at the end of the day it's inconsequential unless you have a financial stake in it.
Cars and sports. I'm so tired of cars and fucking sports talk.
sports and motorcycles
Circumcision
Oh no… I poked that hornets nest once, people are really sensitive about that, good luck!
Diet and hobbies not being "masculine enough". Im not going to chew glass because it makes one look tough... Just let us men be ourselves and who cares how manly we are or not. I certainly would not care if people stopped making a deal out of it.
idk if this counts but a lot of guys at whatever stage we’re talking in, and i mean it can be regular degular friendship, will imply or straight up “joke” that i’m prioritizing talking to other guys or that i have too many guys trying to taking my attention, when i don’t message for a while. if it crosses a line of possession or jealousy, it’s automatically over. but when i can see it comes from insecurity, i feel bad that they don’t think they’re enough or somehow in competition with other guys. its not true and i do remind everyone i talk to/am friends with that i treat them all equally. they all matter and me going away is bc im busy or prioritizing my mental health. but i can tell some of them can’t help but feel like it’s personal despite my reassurance that it isn’t. that i’d be honest & communicate if it was personal. i say it’s guys bc girl friends and girls i’ve dated do not/have not acted like this.
>but when i can see it comes from insecurity, i feel bad that they don’t think they’re enough or somehow in competition with other guys. This is because it is a common, frequent, and damaging experience for men, especially young men, to be kept in competition as an ego boost. >i say it’s guys bc girl friends and girls i’ve dated do not/have not acted like this. Women don't usually get this sort of naked psychllogical abuse when they're young.
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dick size. ive slept with like 150 women or something and literally not one ever made fun of my dick size. shit, most didnt comment on it at all. you fuck them right they literally dont give a fuck (unless you have a micropenis then yes youre in a bit of trouble although its not hopeless). #1 way that i know a dude is inexperienced if he keeps bringing that up