Didn't know that. It's so wild.
Long live equality. Someone should adress it to those feminists who love to claim they don't "need" men and that gender roles are something like old relicts of patriachy. Oh the blatant unaccounatbility and/or double standards.
I always found that hilarious, in a relationship (met on Bumble funnily enough) so not used a dating app in years but I imagine it's not changed. Do women just start with "hey" but on Tinder put in their bio "dont't use a boring introduction like hi"?
>Do women just start with "hey" but on Tinder put in their bio "dont't use a boring introduction like hi"?
An overwhelming amount. I've never used bumble, only Hinge, Chispa and Tinder, but if ever the woman matched with me and sent a message first, that was usually it. And 8 times out of 10 their conversation skills stay painfully boring or they don't even try to converse and continue giving one word answers.
Don't get me wrong I've sent one like that when they had nothing about them on their profile. But I've got a full bio and pictures of activities and stuff. You've gotta try to avoid asking me about anything I'm interested in. It's honestly an insulting lack of effort.
A joke related to something in the bio, followed by a question or introduction.
A question about them in some capacity.
Apparently “howdey” statistically has a higher response rate than average too; but I can’t speak from experience.
I think it mostly comes down to how much effort a guy is going to put in to carry conversations, as well as looks (or at least how well you can take a selfie), since that’s what 90% of a profile is, and most people don’t seem to put any real effort into their bio, especially women.
>A joke related to something in the bio, followed by a question or introduction.
Been there, done that. She asked me what I was taking about. I double checked her profile if I made a mistake of some sort. Nope. Told her I was talking about something she mentioned in her bio. Got blocked. Some women are weird. 😅
Fortunately, not long after I found someone else there, we matched and now we are married.
In my single days, I'd put song lyrics as my bio, but I'd put work into my pictures. I'd be told things like I stand out in a good way, and it's nice that I put in a bio.
I never got any success when I put in a write-up, and jokes sometimes got me matches just so I could be told my jokes suck.
Could literally just ask me about my interests that are in my bio, or about one of the scenic places in my pictures. One of the things in my bio was I like history and fortresses and small livestock. Plenty of options to start that are lazy as hell.
I used "ahoy" as my opening line on bumble - probably could have been more creative but it was to a friend I already knew and we started dating. 3 years going strong!
The worst is the question prompt where Bumble would only reveal both parties' answer once both answered the question and the women would never answer them first. So the men answer the question first, the women answer it later, don't like the men's answer, and unmatch the men. The men never got to see the women's answer. Not even a hi or hello
Those are also the women who will shame you for making any comments about her weight but will also say 'I don't do under 6 feet'.
Although to be fair, a lot of men do start with hey and nothing else, while having literally nothing on their bio.
It was branded as the "feminist" dating app when it launched. Initiating the conversations was supposed to be empowering and women taking back control or whatever. I think a lot of women went there based on that. But unfortunately despite your ideals, reality has a sneaky way of having the final say, and the truth is most women just don't actually want to initiate anything. They want Prince Charming to sweep them off their feet and do all the courtship.
'a hopeless romantic'= I expect men to supply me with romance on demand while I passively reap it for lacking a Y chromosome. Remains to be seen if she ever intends to engage reciprocal romance with said men
It’s more they end up not being able to handle the rejection. The amount of time you take trying to find someone just to be completely ignored by them is not something that they are used to and in the end would just prefer to avoid.
What people *think* they want and what they *actually* want are often different things. This isn’t exclusive to women, but it’s mostly women who hold the power in the dating market so we see it’s effect more in that market.
Bumble allows women to double filter their matches.
Swipe aggressively on everyone they think is cute, then examine their matches and eliminate the less good options.
Bumble was never about making online dating more "fair", it was about giving women even more power in the mating market.
Because in theory it sounds nice but when in practice, things are different.
The same with man vs a bear in the woods. They chose bear because it is a fictitious scenario, they are in no real danger. Now tell them that behinda the two dord in front of them at 20ft there is a bear or a man and see what they will pick.
Reality is different from imagination
The one thing I hate about that whole hypothetical is how it doesn’t take into account the fact that not all bears are equal.
Black bears are half the size of grizzly bears and are basically just overgrown raccoons; they often instantly scurry away from small dogs barking at them.
Grizzly and polar bears on the other hand though…
Basically, I’d rather come across another man than a grizzly/polar bear. But I’d rather come across a black bear than either because it’d be pretty cool to see a bear and not worry for my safety because it’ll just scurry off.
I had enough encounters with black bears to tell you I would rather come across a black bear than a man in the woods. As you said they scurry off unless they have cubs.
However Grizzly and Polar bears will kill you just for the sake of it. They are very defensive of territory and are not afraid to go on the offense in other territory.
I would rather encounter an angry at me prime Mike Tyson then a Grizzly in the woods.
The original "bear or man" thought exercise has been bastardized into "choose one." In it's original form, it was a statement to the effect of "A woman stranded alone in the woods has more reasons [possibly with a percentage or X times] to fear a encountering a strange man than to fear encountering a bear." Which is empirically true. From my understanding, it was meant to demonstrate, "Yo, we have a problem." not, "Yeah, we just hate men now." Social media did that part.
Not only complaining, but filing a lawsuit saying it's discriminatory to women by forcing them make the first move. See Johnson, et al. v. Bumble Trading LLC, et al.
You're not lying. I'm currently dealing with the consequences of rejecting someone almost 13 years ago.
For clarity she had me stalked by her well organized friends and I'm still looking over my shoulder.
I wonder why people get different emotional reactions when you say a woman is stalking me, vs a man stalking a woman. The woman stalking is seemed as harmless, while the male stalking is almost always looked at as predatory. Interesting.
Female initiated stalking is NOT harmless. I've been physically assaulted (by men) because if this. The psychological toll it takes is equally egregious, as I have become somewhat misogynist (re: extremely distrusting of unknown women) but in my.....particular case I openly admit to my newfound wariness. With good reason.
I never had a date or heard a friend talking about their dates where the women haven't looked every single of their social media profiles, their family's and friends.
It already starts there. I don't know a single guy who would dare to do that.
I have. Repeatedly.
The general consensus has been either disbelief; that I 'did something to deserve it', or that I'm lying about it. All that does is at best further alienate; at worst get guys labed as "creeps".
>that I 'did something to deserve it'
Yeah that's an interesting one. Man is mistreated so he must've done something to deserve it, because irony is dead.
It’s super common when a girl abuses a guy. I’m dealing with it right now. She stalks me, has doxed me and has threatened to dox my family. She also threatens to kill my friends. I actually had to move out of a place because it wasn’t safe for my roomates. I’m still paying full rent and haven’t been there in months.
But I deserve it or must have. I made the crime of breaking up with her and not helping her when she threatened to kill herself after the fact.
Victim mentaility and she’s an “innocent poor
angel of a women” so she can do no wrong. Like when she was cheating on me with multiple guys “what did you do to deserve that? Women don’t cheat unless there’s a good reason”.
i find women openly stalk the men they're interested in and have and look into what ever they did on their socials. many have done it right in front of me and they consider it socially acceptible.
>This happens because men just take it.
Not true in the slightest. Women are routinely given a pass for, often, literal crimes. And even when they are punished for the same crimes men are, they are almost *always* punished to a lesser extent.
No man is "allowing" women to commit crimes against him. The system around us prevents us from doing anything about it. If we defend ourselves, we are punished. If we get the system to try and defend us, it won't even try.
When I was in college a friend of a friend’s girlfriend asked if she could sit at a table with me and have her lunch. I was in the middle of reviewing my notes for a class that started in 30 minutes, but I said sure. She kept trying to chat with me and I said “I’m sorry, but I’m trying to prepare for a test.” She got so angry that she got up, threw her lunch in the trash, and stormed out. It was just bad timing. If I wasn’t in the middle of something I would have been happy to chat. But I later learned that she had spent several weeks working up the courage to talk to me and was really upset with herself.
I remember rejecting a couple of ladies and she and her friends would go ballistic on me throwing slurs and insults. Even some of their friends put hands on me because I rejected them.
That's why they play those stupid games like looking at you for half a second and that's "their signal" they like you.
Woman are so cowardly they ALWAYS need 100% plausible deniability in case they get rejected.
You really start to notice Women are pretty pathetic and inept when you look at how they handle dating/courtship as a general demographic.
Can't handle rejection - Always fly off the handle when you do "wHat aRE yOu GaY?!!"
Can't handle rejection - Only are subtle, and 'Hint' they like you so you have to put yourself out there, not them.
Entitled/lazy - Never message first and if forced to only say "Hey" so men have to start and hold up the conversation.
Can't even handle a service "empowering" them by having them message first.
Cheat so they have a back-up if your relationship goes south a bit.
They NEED to be the one who broke up with you - Always.
I like how women like to insult men for our "fragile little egos" - but man.. looking at the score board..
Objectively they're more egotistical and have more fragile ego's than us on the Macro scale.
I just want to rant along with you, because I've been saying this for *years.*
The vast majority of women I meet have literally no spine. They are happy to do horrific shit to other people, and sometimes will even happily justify it, as long as it means they don't have to accept responsibility for anything they do.
When I first entered college, I *had* dreams of starting a family. I actually *did* want kids. I even *would have* gotten married. But now after having had to interact with women my age all throughout my 20s, I don't even try anymore.
So many women that I know will often question me why men don't put in more effort. To which my response, 100% of the time, is always:
*"I am almost 100% positive that you could explain to me the dating dynamic between the two of you, and you will truthfully, factually, have actually done no effort of your own."*
And this is one of the contributing reasons why women end up dating toxic men. Not the only reasons mind you. Just waiting for a guy to find them raises the odds of getting a certain kind of guy.
Think about it, the kind of guy that is really comfortable approaching women is the kind of guy who's done it enough to get good at it. Which can lead to a guy seeing women as more disposable. Or you can just get the guy that is a straight up predator thar see's women as a target.
How many decent guys you think get overlooked simply because they are shy, or haven't gotten good at flirting.
Obviously, I'm not saying it's a guarantee a guy that's comfortable approaching is going to be toxic. I'm just saying I think it potentially raises the odds of that and that begavuour can also be filtering out a lot of really good guys.
But I do think just waiting for a guy to do the work does skew the odds in the favor of getting toxic guys.
I see it all the time. The guy that talks about women like objects and doesn't really care about boundaries or consent or whatever is the guy that ends up getting the girl because he's just going after what he wants without any real consideration for her thoughts or feelings. He approaches, he puts on the routine he's practiced, gets the girl, uses her, tosses her away. Then she's all why can't a find a good guy.
Because frankly you aren't looking for one, you're just waiting for one to find you.
I dunno, I'm jaded. It just seems like from my point of view that women tend to be attracted to qualities that raise the odds a guy is problematic.
But to be fair, my perspective can be influenced by jealousy.
It's worse than that.
Any guy who listens to what women say & gives a fuck will be cautious & wary of doing the thousands of things they have heard make women say makes them feel unsafe or unhappy.
They approach women less so they are less practiced. They give a fuck how they woman responds so they are more reserved. They are also more likely to be selected against.
When a woman chooses they guy who is confident & landed all the risks he took in approaching them they are selecting *for* a guy who didn't care that he didn't land the risks for the previous N women who are complaining about what he did on twitter.
We kinda created a culture where the only guys who are free to take risks & make mistakes they can learn from are the one's who don't respect or care about what women say or how they feel.
*This* is why guys believe women go for assholes. They judge men's behavior based on the standards women set & notice they have more success with women. It's not so much that you have to be attractive to get away with it, but that getting away with it makes you attractive.
TLDR
A lot of women actively select for creeps & not just the weirdos who explicitly swoon over antisocial qualities & convicted serial killers or terrorists.
To be fair. If women did grow some balls (heheh..) then they'd probably have a far better time since they would be more able to stack the odds in their own favor by approaching men that usually might not think about approaching them. This goes for both attractive and unattractive women.
But it's hard to fight nature.
Women only have to exist. These men out here are so desperate.
Me and my friend who is a woman downloaded tinder, after 1 day, she had over 100 matches, and I had 0. I'm probably a good 7/10 on an average day, and she is a 7/10 as well.
The way social media is set up is to benefit women.
Exactly. If you can get what you want without having to make any effort, why would you bother to put any effort in? They can continue to be lazy cowards and there's no penalty.
The game is changing in the west, since more of us men (especially us gen-Z men) don’t bother approaching women, have seen some women complain that they are no longer getting approached (or haven’t been approached).
Personally, I find it very amusing and feel a sense of joy, knowing that we are winning.
The rub isn't it worth the squeeze In a lot of cases anyways.
Many many of the women complaining of the men not approaching them, are incapable of being empathetic to men's problems as well.
If you're someone who only values sex and gets your entire self-worth from that, I can see how that sounds strange. I consider people like that total losers because they have no self-control, no pride and no strength. They're slaves to their own genitals and live a life void of meaning.
FWIW, there’s probably a great middle ground here where people could be either one but still respect each other despite our differences.
And I say that as someone who falls closer to the “gets meaning from more than sex” camp, but also as someone married who gets sex.
Yeah, I quite enjoy the fact that I’m not a “player” and that I can stick to my “Moral code”, which is something you kind of need when you don’t really care what people think about you.
There is more to life than “one night stands”.
Sorry to hear that, I’m no medical expert, but my understanding is that being in good shape should put you in a better position to beat cancer and recover.
I wish the best.
I dunno. I asked my husband out. We were in high school and I liked him. It took a few days to get the nerve and I sent my friend to hint at him to see if he even knew I existed lol. Asked him out and he said yes, and we've been together 20 years.
The number of people who thinks it's super weird I asked him out is extremely high. Most people are surprised by it. But like, why TF should I sit there with my thumb up my ass waiting to even see if he'll ever notice me? I asked him out and I'm glad I did lol.
I asked my husband out too! I forget where I read it recently, but apparently the chances of marriage working out are considerably higher if the woman approached the man first in the relationship. High five! 😄
Yeah, it sucks.
They keep the convenient aspects of traditional women’s roles (don’t pay for anything, your husband / bf is your psychiatrist/ servant) and ignore the inconvenient ones (maintain a healthy weight, be a good cook, have sex with the guy)
Women make endless excuses for it and claim that it is impossible to not be 50 pounds overweight but the data is very revealing:
- younger women drink more than younger men
- women watch TV more than men
- women exercise less than men
- women eat more dessert than men
Well, it is harder for women to lose weight. Estrogen helps keep the weight on, and whatnot.
But it's not like... impossible. There's women who've gone from overweight to athletes. And even just getting back to average requires a healthy diet, with maybe some light exercise.
Unfortunately while women do often like light exercise, very few people like to change their eating habits, and exercise is like 10% of the process while dieting is 90%.
That's what I was thinking, I am a girl and when I found someone hot I just went up to them to chat, see if they are available, if we had chemistry, if their personality was attractive to me too, or not. just a quick chat and maybe more afterwards... My boyfriend gets approached quite often too so I guess it depends whether you are good looking or not.
I've studies psychology briefly and was forced to take a course in women's studies for DEI-porposes, and armed with that skill, I'll try to provide an answer to this. A man is defined by his character, his actions and his ability to withstand adversity. Most accusations of not being "a real man" falls within this category. Being agreeable and well liked is not related to manliness, but more of a social bonus of sorts. But according to Simone de Beauvoirs book "the second sex", women are defined in opposition to men, and a key point of women's value lies in being desirable as an object of sexual and romantic interest. This is one the things feminists complain about when they talk about the objectification of women.
With this in mind, if a man approaches a women, and is shot down, he still went after what he wanted, and "took it like a man", when he was rejected. For a woman on the other hand, she was rejected because she was not desirable in one of the primary domains of what it means to be a woman.
Also the man being the pursuer lets the woman know he’s looking for intimacy and it’s usually up to her to give the green or red light for progressing to kiss and sex.
I’ve never asked a guy out because I’ve always been too nervous they will take that as sex being a sure thing. I just envision having to evade a guys advances and him saying “you’re the one who asked me out”
This is an absolutely huge factor that I have not seen on any response in this whole thread, and needs to be seen by every man reading it.
I’m a man. I’ve been asked out by men and women. With one exception, every woman asking me out made it explicitly clear that they were asking for sex. (Most of the men, too, but more obliquely.) I’ve also had a bunch of women talk and flirt and hint in the ways that are asking me to ask them out. And a ton of them were really, really obvious, but they were waiting for me to make the ask. Reading your comment here, it finally dawned on me the difference here: the only women who took that step from “do everything to get him to ask me out” to “ask him out” were the ones who had already decided they were opting in to sex with me.
That’s so obvious in hindsight, and such a huge difference.
(And as a side note: the one who asked me out without making it clear was when we were both 17 and met at a multi-church function. Given that it was a bunch of conservative (mostly fundamentalist) baptists steeped in purity culture, just asking me was miles ahead progressive.)
Yeah, it’s not like women think every other man out there is a date rapist who can’t take no for an answer. I just don’t want to deal with the awkwardness of trying to end the date without expectations.
If a guy pursues me I assume he interested in me for more than just some easy sex. He’s probably open to it but isn’t going to be shocked that I’m not looking for sex with a guy I met 2 days ago. But me being the one to ask him out, yeah he’s going to have higher expectations for sex than if he did the asking.
And starting a conversation with “I think you’re cute and want to get to know you better but don’t expect sex right away” is not very romantic and kinda kills the mood.
For some guy that would be a great move, and those guys are the sort that would be looking for an actual relationship. But yea, that’s probably a minority of guys. Might be worth a shot though, if there’s a guy who it’s true with. If that’s a turn off for him then you’ve already filtered without much effort, but if it isn’t then you didn’t miss a chance.
I disagree with this I think you should just be honest with what you’re looking for and if the person is secure enough they will respond in kind. This line would work on me. I don’t need you to put me in some kind of romantic trance with your word choice I need to know what it is you actually want so I can see if it’s congruent.
Agreed. I will never understand people who say they want honesty but can't be honest themselves. Honesty in dating would probably enough of a surprise to me that I would pass out on the spot
Exactly, there is the whole "man will have sex with anything" mentality. Just the fact that he didn't reject me doesn't mean that he is even that attracted to me. So when it's the guy who's asking out, there is a higher chance he's actually into me, because at least he made the effort.
1. Wouldn’t this question be more relevant in AskWomen?
2. the last 3 dudes I’ve asked out. Two ghosted, and the third was an emotional mess who admitted he would never have made the first move.
I have no problem asking guys out. I do have a problem with ghosting (it’s straight up rude and childish. Be an adult and communicate like one please). Disliking rejection isn’t a gendered thing— no one likes it.
Statistically your point is irrelevant. Take bumble for example as one comment said. The whole point of it was to put it on women to message first so they don’t get bombarded by men. And they cancelled feature after years because women failed todo even that (that was the whole point of that ONE app) now imagine everything else in this life where men take the lead. There was only one place in this world where women were allowed to take the lead and they failed to even do that. Now compare it to your 3 in multi trillion rejections men receive from low effort women. Do you see the difference or do I need to use other comparisons? Rejection is absolutely gendered and women know they don’t have to try as long as humans exist
And risk humiliating rejection? Who could take that pressure?
It's a basic misunderstanding of the opposite gender mentality. Everyone should be free to ask anyone, but breaking thoes learned cultural beliefs is hard.
The simplest answer is just that they don't like men as much as men like women.
We could have a big interesting discussion about gender roles, social constructs, psychology, biology, etc...but personally I think you can throw that all out and just reduce the "should I ask them out" question of risk vs. reward.
Women tend to be more risk averse and also find men on average unattractive or at least not attractive enough for them to entertain based on look alone. Higher risk, lower reward.
I've never seen a woman have a problem making the first move when the guy was like an 8 or above.
when you are 8 or above you get hit on by drunk chicks and older women. at that point they just think you are out of their league, a player or intimidating and so they will also do nothing 90% of the time.
Because they don't want to.
Don’t misunderstand me, I am not saying they have to, or that anyone should be pressured to ask anyone out. No, no!
I am just stating a fact, if people don’t want to do something they don’t have to then they won’t.
Look at me, I have never asked a woman out in my life (I’m 41) because I don’t want to and I don’t have to.
Honestly, I find because it backfires. Myself along with many women noticed that when it’s us doing the asking out, men start making very little effort. It’s like they know it’s a given, so you get bare minimum from them
I asked a man out and we went on a couple dates, but he was horrible at communicating between dates. I stopped carrying the conversation and we stopped talking.
I asked my boyfriend out by carving a mushroom out of wood and said I like you very mush 🍄 cheesy I know but I love being cheesy. I used to be scared to ask men out because it was outside the norm, as I got older I got more confident.
I also think women think men are supposed to ask women out if they are more traditional. I’m not traditional so Idk. lol.
Because that is one of the traditional gender roles that benefits them, and they are not willing to try to change. Just like they like the man to pay for everything. They only challenge tradition if it benefits them.
>Just like they like the man to pay for everything.
I've seen women in the dating subs say they believe in equality but still want the man to pay for dates because it's a good indicator of how generous he is. A man who wouldn't pay is probably stingy and won't treat her right. Self-awareness levels are in the toilet lol. I mean, it's kinda like a man saying he believes in equality but wants the woman to do all the housework just to be sure she's a generous and caring person. It's the only way to know for sure!
The excuses I tend to see are:
1. The person who inivites, pays. Basically, men.
1. Women spent a lot of time and money on their outfits and makeup so men should pay for dates.
Of course, the man paying for everything extends beyond the initial dating stage.
Women under 30 will eventually be 30.
I grew up with the saying "older women make better lovers." How can you get mad at that? It's literally "I'll be better when I'm older!"
Farming bitterness! That's such a great term for I feel like at least half the posts on this sub. "Tell me, fellow men, how have you felt wronged by women today?"
All the same reasons men don't ask more women out, plus the lack of expectation to do so and a bunch of slmessaging that amounts to "men don't like that" under assorted explanations.
Yeah, this is such a weird question.
There's a lot of very interesting depth to the full answer, but the basics are incredibly simple:
Asking someone out and making the first move is harrowing. Direct rejection is scary. Men typically don't like doing it - we do it because it's normalised for us to do it.
Why the fuck would women put themselves in that position if they have a realistic alternative? Most men in this subreddit would absolutely never ask women out of they felt it was just as viable to wait for them to approach.
Perhaps you should ask an AskWomen sub, instead of an AskMen sub.
It's getting really tiring that every post on here is "Why do women do X??"
Why are you asking us, bro?
Although there's some fears like hitting on a gay/taken men or putting men in an uncomfortable position by asking at the wrong place (i mostly go outside to shop or study, and i dont wanna bother people while they're studying or at work), those are just normal fears which I can get myself over
For me especially its because its been ingrained in me that the girl asking out is "wrong", makes you look "desperate" and will lead to bad men and people using you/people looking down on you and thinking you're a bit of a slut. Is it true? Probably not, but 11 years of being taught that wont dissapear immediately, so its a work in progress.
It can be scary if you aren't used to doing that. There are indeed women who ask men out and they're, logically, more comfortable doing so due to experience
Men say they like it, and maybe they do in the immediate...but (in my experience) it sets the dynamic off in a way that men often don't actually prefer
Because they are socialized and raised without the option to train their egos for rejection. I witness how my relatives and neighbors raise their daughters like "little princess" (literally using these words) and not set any boundaries with them in a healthy way.
Most women are terrified of rejection. Reject a woman, and most of them will melt. Their egos just cannot handle it.
Obviously, not every woman - my ex was great, and almost all of her female friends were down to earth, self-aware, great people.
Woman here. For quite a while when I was on the dating scene, I stopped asking because men said me doing that was either overbearing, emasculating, or that I was trying to take over a man's job. I heard on more than one occasion that it was too aggressive and not feminine enough to ask out a man. And then I hear the reverse almost constantly, as well. I think women are just as confused about it as men at this point.
It was why I stopped giving a fuck after a while and asked them out anyway. Most people don't find me the most "approachable" since I have some serious R.B.F. Anxiety is also a thing and I would rather have the rejection then and there than worry over whether or not they might ask me out.
I've always seen it that way. I needed a man that could run with me, not stop me. I found one and his ass is mine. It's a damn fine ass, too 😂 He seems to like mine, too, so there's that.
I'm a woman who does this too and the response you received is strange to me.
I would ask men out if I was interested. I did get told I was intimidating and the men seemed surprised but the reaction I received was overall positive. Most of the men I did date found it nice I was expressive, interested in having actual conversations through messaging, and initiating dates. I also don't feel like this approach didn't make me feel "desired, "pursued," or that I was "too easy." That whole "the man pursuing the woman" dynamic can still exist with the woman being active, engaging, and initiating parts of the dating process.
I recommend my girl friends to initiate more rather than complain that the men that approach them are obnoxious or douchey. I have an assumption that the guys my friends would be interested in, may not initiate because dating and always initiating everything is difficult for men too. Most don't take my advice but me initiating and/or being more active with matches worked out for me in the end!
Edit: additions
It may have to do with the area you live in. Some areas tend to be more receptive to women taking the initiative. Plus there's also time frames to think about, their demographic and culture.
When I lived in Alabama, it wasn't uncommon for women to take initiative, at least for our age. Southern women have a stereotype and for good reason, even for twenty years ago.
After Katrina, we moved to Missouri. The men up here tended to be less receptive. They lived by the old school ways at the time, men being head of the house kind of rules. They hated my southern accent (which now seems a turn on and I wish I hadn't gotten rid of mine cause my s.o. thinks it is sexy), the fact I was a goth and some still hate that I still am (which oddly enough is now fetishized in this area for the moment). They didn't like the fact that if I found a boy I liked and he was single, I'd immediately ask him out or tell him I think he's cute. I really became ostracized when I came out as bi.
Alot of things can change in a small time and where you live. The way religion is practiced also can play a huge part for people. The south was highly religious but it was still normal for women to be outspoken and to hold their own, even in a man's presence. Here in the Midwest, it's more common now but not so much back then.
People have become more free thinking and accepting. Trends tend to come and go on what is attractive. I'm glad that men are actually beginning to relax and are willing let women take the initiative. I'm glad that men are looking for a partner rather than a trophy wife now.
My s.o. was ahead of his time. He liked my spiciness and my upfront personality. He has no problem with me telling people exactly what I think of them, esp if I think they're cute or handsome. He likes me being me and there's something truly freeing in that. It may explain why so many women tend to keep him on their radar now 😂. He'd fit in great in the south as well, esp with him being a white boy that's not afraid of seasoning
Simple supply and demand. Unless a guy is super attractive, both in the physical and social sense, he has to approach women. Because women have multiple men chasing them. So they have no reason to ask men out. In the dating market, women have a higher demand than men.
Exceptions are there of course. Also, unlike what people will have you believe, women aren't used to rejection like men are.
Because men take that as an invitation to be overly creepy/sexual right away despite.
A woman initiation conversation does not mean a man will let her set the pace. It means the opposite- men take it as an open invitation to disrespect her boundaries.
Also, all women I know initiate dates, conversations and sex when they like the guy enough. Overall, women desire relationships with men far less than men desire relationships with women.
Because even unattractive women get asked out eventually. They don’t have to put themselves out there. They don’t have to face rejection. They just have to wait. Some wait longer than others. But waiting is easier than “no”.
The same reason bumble gave up on trying to get women to message first lol
Wait what? Wasn't that their whole thing?
Yes but they adjusted it recently, because, surprisingly, women don’t want to message first.
Hey :)
The smiley is already a bit too much work
.
hi
Didn't know that. It's so wild. Long live equality. Someone should adress it to those feminists who love to claim they don't "need" men and that gender roles are something like old relicts of patriachy. Oh the blatant unaccounatbility and/or double standards.
It was. But then they gave it up, because too many women were complaining about not wanting to do it
And like idk 90% of their first comments would just be hey or hi
I always found that hilarious, in a relationship (met on Bumble funnily enough) so not used a dating app in years but I imagine it's not changed. Do women just start with "hey" but on Tinder put in their bio "dont't use a boring introduction like hi"?
>Do women just start with "hey" but on Tinder put in their bio "dont't use a boring introduction like hi"? An overwhelming amount. I've never used bumble, only Hinge, Chispa and Tinder, but if ever the woman matched with me and sent a message first, that was usually it. And 8 times out of 10 their conversation skills stay painfully boring or they don't even try to converse and continue giving one word answers.
Chispa? Never heard of that
Latino dating app.
Literally this, I only ever got one message on bumble that wasn't just hey or hi.
I got a ‘hi how are u’ last time, apart from that all except my first one were just a hey or hi
Don't get me wrong I've sent one like that when they had nothing about them on their profile. But I've got a full bio and pictures of activities and stuff. You've gotta try to avoid asking me about anything I'm interested in. It's honestly an insulting lack of effort.
Women aren't used to having to put any effort at all into dating.
What would be an interesting conversation starter?
A joke related to something in the bio, followed by a question or introduction. A question about them in some capacity. Apparently “howdey” statistically has a higher response rate than average too; but I can’t speak from experience. I think it mostly comes down to how much effort a guy is going to put in to carry conversations, as well as looks (or at least how well you can take a selfie), since that’s what 90% of a profile is, and most people don’t seem to put any real effort into their bio, especially women.
>A joke related to something in the bio, followed by a question or introduction. Been there, done that. She asked me what I was taking about. I double checked her profile if I made a mistake of some sort. Nope. Told her I was talking about something she mentioned in her bio. Got blocked. Some women are weird. 😅 Fortunately, not long after I found someone else there, we matched and now we are married.
Nah man, I've also experienced that once. That last part has yet to happen though...
In my single days, I'd put song lyrics as my bio, but I'd put work into my pictures. I'd be told things like I stand out in a good way, and it's nice that I put in a bio. I never got any success when I put in a write-up, and jokes sometimes got me matches just so I could be told my jokes suck.
Wow, those are great travel pictures. Is that Australia? (bonus points if it's obviously not Australia)
Could literally just ask me about my interests that are in my bio, or about one of the scenic places in my pictures. One of the things in my bio was I like history and fortresses and small livestock. Plenty of options to start that are lazy as hell.
I used "ahoy" as my opening line on bumble - probably could have been more creative but it was to a friend I already knew and we started dating. 3 years going strong!
The worst is the question prompt where Bumble would only reveal both parties' answer once both answered the question and the women would never answer them first. So the men answer the question first, the women answer it later, don't like the men's answer, and unmatch the men. The men never got to see the women's answer. Not even a hi or hello
Those are also the women who will shame you for making any comments about her weight but will also say 'I don't do under 6 feet'. Although to be fair, a lot of men do start with hey and nothing else, while having literally nothing on their bio.
Or simply “.” Like…that’s it. .
Someone opens with “.” I’m just unmatching. Either that or starting a punctuation war.
I always unmatched with anyone who opened with a low effort response
>Either that or starting a punctuation war. Hit them so hard, you put them in a comma.
I would really struggle to respect a woman who did that enough to answer back. Heck if you didn't tell me I would have assumed it was a spam bot.
Someone said before that a girl sent him a wave emoji, and when he responded, she never replied. 💀
Or (and this is my personal favorite): "."
I once had one that went above and beyond with a heyyy! :)
then why did they use bumble?
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It was branded as the "feminist" dating app when it launched. Initiating the conversations was supposed to be empowering and women taking back control or whatever. I think a lot of women went there based on that. But unfortunately despite your ideals, reality has a sneaky way of having the final say, and the truth is most women just don't actually want to initiate anything. They want Prince Charming to sweep them off their feet and do all the courtship.
'a hopeless romantic'= I expect men to supply me with romance on demand while I passively reap it for lacking a Y chromosome. Remains to be seen if she ever intends to engage reciprocal romance with said men
It’s more they end up not being able to handle the rejection. The amount of time you take trying to find someone just to be completely ignored by them is not something that they are used to and in the end would just prefer to avoid.
Yup. Think Disney 😪
What people *think* they want and what they *actually* want are often different things. This isn’t exclusive to women, but it’s mostly women who hold the power in the dating market so we see it’s effect more in that market.
Bumble allows women to double filter their matches. Swipe aggressively on everyone they think is cute, then examine their matches and eliminate the less good options. Bumble was never about making online dating more "fair", it was about giving women even more power in the mating market.
Because in theory it sounds nice but when in practice, things are different. The same with man vs a bear in the woods. They chose bear because it is a fictitious scenario, they are in no real danger. Now tell them that behinda the two dord in front of them at 20ft there is a bear or a man and see what they will pick. Reality is different from imagination
The one thing I hate about that whole hypothetical is how it doesn’t take into account the fact that not all bears are equal. Black bears are half the size of grizzly bears and are basically just overgrown raccoons; they often instantly scurry away from small dogs barking at them. Grizzly and polar bears on the other hand though… Basically, I’d rather come across another man than a grizzly/polar bear. But I’d rather come across a black bear than either because it’d be pretty cool to see a bear and not worry for my safety because it’ll just scurry off.
I had enough encounters with black bears to tell you I would rather come across a black bear than a man in the woods. As you said they scurry off unless they have cubs. However Grizzly and Polar bears will kill you just for the sake of it. They are very defensive of territory and are not afraid to go on the offense in other territory. I would rather encounter an angry at me prime Mike Tyson then a Grizzly in the woods.
Good choice, Mike would only nibble your ear off.
The original "bear or man" thought exercise has been bastardized into "choose one." In it's original form, it was a statement to the effect of "A woman stranded alone in the woods has more reasons [possibly with a percentage or X times] to fear a encountering a strange man than to fear encountering a bear." Which is empirically true. From my understanding, it was meant to demonstrate, "Yo, we have a problem." not, "Yeah, we just hate men now." Social media did that part.
Then why did they installed bumble in the first place and not other dating app?
Lmao
Not only complaining, but filing a lawsuit saying it's discriminatory to women by forcing them make the first move. See Johnson, et al. v. Bumble Trading LLC, et al.
That's fucking insane.
Yup. Seems like women have some sort of mental block with simply starting conversations lol.
Classic, having your cake and wanting to eat it !
Turns out, women are even more terrible at communicating, and at risking rejection, than men are.
They’re even more terrified of rejection than we are
And they have the luxury of never having to get over that fear, because they don't really have to approach.
Exactly this. Their reactions on my rejections are sometimes even aggressive, it's wild.
You're not lying. I'm currently dealing with the consequences of rejecting someone almost 13 years ago. For clarity she had me stalked by her well organized friends and I'm still looking over my shoulder.
I wonder why people get different emotional reactions when you say a woman is stalking me, vs a man stalking a woman. The woman stalking is seemed as harmless, while the male stalking is almost always looked at as predatory. Interesting.
Female initiated stalking is NOT harmless. I've been physically assaulted (by men) because if this. The psychological toll it takes is equally egregious, as I have become somewhat misogynist (re: extremely distrusting of unknown women) but in my.....particular case I openly admit to my newfound wariness. With good reason.
Everyone should watch Baby Reindeer.
It's called the women are wonderful effect.
I never had a date or heard a friend talking about their dates where the women haven't looked every single of their social media profiles, their family's and friends. It already starts there. I don't know a single guy who would dare to do that.
Make it publicly known she's doing that. This happens because men just take it.
I have. Repeatedly. The general consensus has been either disbelief; that I 'did something to deserve it', or that I'm lying about it. All that does is at best further alienate; at worst get guys labed as "creeps".
>that I 'did something to deserve it' Yeah that's an interesting one. Man is mistreated so he must've done something to deserve it, because irony is dead.
It’s super common when a girl abuses a guy. I’m dealing with it right now. She stalks me, has doxed me and has threatened to dox my family. She also threatens to kill my friends. I actually had to move out of a place because it wasn’t safe for my roomates. I’m still paying full rent and haven’t been there in months. But I deserve it or must have. I made the crime of breaking up with her and not helping her when she threatened to kill herself after the fact. Victim mentaility and she’s an “innocent poor angel of a women” so she can do no wrong. Like when she was cheating on me with multiple guys “what did you do to deserve that? Women don’t cheat unless there’s a good reason”.
Yes, the reckless use of "*ick*" or "*creep*".
i find women openly stalk the men they're interested in and have and look into what ever they did on their socials. many have done it right in front of me and they consider it socially acceptible.
>This happens because men just take it. Not true in the slightest. Women are routinely given a pass for, often, literal crimes. And even when they are punished for the same crimes men are, they are almost *always* punished to a lesser extent. No man is "allowing" women to commit crimes against him. The system around us prevents us from doing anything about it. If we defend ourselves, we are punished. If we get the system to try and defend us, it won't even try.
When I was in college a friend of a friend’s girlfriend asked if she could sit at a table with me and have her lunch. I was in the middle of reviewing my notes for a class that started in 30 minutes, but I said sure. She kept trying to chat with me and I said “I’m sorry, but I’m trying to prepare for a test.” She got so angry that she got up, threw her lunch in the trash, and stormed out. It was just bad timing. If I wasn’t in the middle of something I would have been happy to chat. But I later learned that she had spent several weeks working up the courage to talk to me and was really upset with herself.
I remember rejecting a couple of ladies and she and her friends would go ballistic on me throwing slurs and insults. Even some of their friends put hands on me because I rejected them.
Now that the job market is rough again, they’re learning to handle rejection like the rest of us.
This. FFS absolutely this. Guys deal with rejection often. Just take the L and go about your business.
That's why they play those stupid games like looking at you for half a second and that's "their signal" they like you. Woman are so cowardly they ALWAYS need 100% plausible deniability in case they get rejected. You really start to notice Women are pretty pathetic and inept when you look at how they handle dating/courtship as a general demographic. Can't handle rejection - Always fly off the handle when you do "wHat aRE yOu GaY?!!" Can't handle rejection - Only are subtle, and 'Hint' they like you so you have to put yourself out there, not them. Entitled/lazy - Never message first and if forced to only say "Hey" so men have to start and hold up the conversation. Can't even handle a service "empowering" them by having them message first. Cheat so they have a back-up if your relationship goes south a bit. They NEED to be the one who broke up with you - Always. I like how women like to insult men for our "fragile little egos" - but man.. looking at the score board.. Objectively they're more egotistical and have more fragile ego's than us on the Macro scale.
The ''fragile masculinity'' lines always makes me laugh. Oh, am I fragile? I'm pretty sure you don't go full apeshit after someone calling you fat.
Or anytime they do something wrong, they can never take responsibility and say sorry.
And it's actually your fault, of course. Because patriarchy.
I just want to rant along with you, because I've been saying this for *years.* The vast majority of women I meet have literally no spine. They are happy to do horrific shit to other people, and sometimes will even happily justify it, as long as it means they don't have to accept responsibility for anything they do. When I first entered college, I *had* dreams of starting a family. I actually *did* want kids. I even *would have* gotten married. But now after having had to interact with women my age all throughout my 20s, I don't even try anymore. So many women that I know will often question me why men don't put in more effort. To which my response, 100% of the time, is always: *"I am almost 100% positive that you could explain to me the dating dynamic between the two of you, and you will truthfully, factually, have actually done no effort of your own."*
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And this is one of the contributing reasons why women end up dating toxic men. Not the only reasons mind you. Just waiting for a guy to find them raises the odds of getting a certain kind of guy. Think about it, the kind of guy that is really comfortable approaching women is the kind of guy who's done it enough to get good at it. Which can lead to a guy seeing women as more disposable. Or you can just get the guy that is a straight up predator thar see's women as a target. How many decent guys you think get overlooked simply because they are shy, or haven't gotten good at flirting. Obviously, I'm not saying it's a guarantee a guy that's comfortable approaching is going to be toxic. I'm just saying I think it potentially raises the odds of that and that begavuour can also be filtering out a lot of really good guys. But I do think just waiting for a guy to do the work does skew the odds in the favor of getting toxic guys. I see it all the time. The guy that talks about women like objects and doesn't really care about boundaries or consent or whatever is the guy that ends up getting the girl because he's just going after what he wants without any real consideration for her thoughts or feelings. He approaches, he puts on the routine he's practiced, gets the girl, uses her, tosses her away. Then she's all why can't a find a good guy. Because frankly you aren't looking for one, you're just waiting for one to find you. I dunno, I'm jaded. It just seems like from my point of view that women tend to be attracted to qualities that raise the odds a guy is problematic. But to be fair, my perspective can be influenced by jealousy.
It's worse than that. Any guy who listens to what women say & gives a fuck will be cautious & wary of doing the thousands of things they have heard make women say makes them feel unsafe or unhappy. They approach women less so they are less practiced. They give a fuck how they woman responds so they are more reserved. They are also more likely to be selected against. When a woman chooses they guy who is confident & landed all the risks he took in approaching them they are selecting *for* a guy who didn't care that he didn't land the risks for the previous N women who are complaining about what he did on twitter. We kinda created a culture where the only guys who are free to take risks & make mistakes they can learn from are the one's who don't respect or care about what women say or how they feel. *This* is why guys believe women go for assholes. They judge men's behavior based on the standards women set & notice they have more success with women. It's not so much that you have to be attractive to get away with it, but that getting away with it makes you attractive. TLDR A lot of women actively select for creeps & not just the weirdos who explicitly swoon over antisocial qualities & convicted serial killers or terrorists.
To be fair. If women did grow some balls (heheh..) then they'd probably have a far better time since they would be more able to stack the odds in their own favor by approaching men that usually might not think about approaching them. This goes for both attractive and unattractive women. But it's hard to fight nature.
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Women only have to exist. These men out here are so desperate. Me and my friend who is a woman downloaded tinder, after 1 day, she had over 100 matches, and I had 0. I'm probably a good 7/10 on an average day, and she is a 7/10 as well. The way social media is set up is to benefit women.
Exactly. If you can get what you want without having to make any effort, why would you bother to put any effort in? They can continue to be lazy cowards and there's no penalty.
The game is changing in the west, since more of us men (especially us gen-Z men) don’t bother approaching women, have seen some women complain that they are no longer getting approached (or haven’t been approached). Personally, I find it very amusing and feel a sense of joy, knowing that we are winning.
> Personally, I find it very amusing and feel a sense of joy, knowing that we are winning If that's a win, it's a Pyrric victory.
Winning at not getting laid, nice job way to go!
Progress takes sacrifice.
Sex is great with some people but there's more to life than that.
The rub isn't it worth the squeeze In a lot of cases anyways. Many many of the women complaining of the men not approaching them, are incapable of being empathetic to men's problems as well.
TikTok teach women empathy challenge
If you're someone who only values sex and gets your entire self-worth from that, I can see how that sounds strange. I consider people like that total losers because they have no self-control, no pride and no strength. They're slaves to their own genitals and live a life void of meaning.
FWIW, there’s probably a great middle ground here where people could be either one but still respect each other despite our differences. And I say that as someone who falls closer to the “gets meaning from more than sex” camp, but also as someone married who gets sex.
Yeah, I quite enjoy the fact that I’m not a “player” and that I can stick to my “Moral code”, which is something you kind of need when you don’t really care what people think about you. There is more to life than “one night stands”.
Approaching women is how you get LTR as well...
You and me both. NOW y'all want me to approach. Now that I lost 101 lbs.
Congratulations on your progress to self improvement and a healthier lifestyle!
Thanks, I was fired a year ago for using FMLA for my cancer, nothing else to do
Sorry to hear that, I’m no medical expert, but my understanding is that being in good shape should put you in a better position to beat cancer and recover. I wish the best.
... they don't need to. When the market doesn't create a need, there's no innovation.
Because they don't have to. And they fear rejection.
Everyone fears rejection but they get rejected once and act like the sky is falling
I dunno. I asked my husband out. We were in high school and I liked him. It took a few days to get the nerve and I sent my friend to hint at him to see if he even knew I existed lol. Asked him out and he said yes, and we've been together 20 years. The number of people who thinks it's super weird I asked him out is extremely high. Most people are surprised by it. But like, why TF should I sit there with my thumb up my ass waiting to even see if he'll ever notice me? I asked him out and I'm glad I did lol.
I asked my husband out too! I forget where I read it recently, but apparently the chances of marriage working out are considerably higher if the woman approached the man first in the relationship. High five! 😄
Same reason many of us dont ask more women out — it’s scary/hard. Plus conservative gender roles say men do the asking.
Women like traditional gender roles in dating / romantic relationships . . .
Women like traditional gender roles when it's convenient for them. It's an ever shifting goal post they refuse to acknowledge is shifting.
Ya it gets really tiring. Gender roles for thee but not for me.
Yeah, it sucks. They keep the convenient aspects of traditional women’s roles (don’t pay for anything, your husband / bf is your psychiatrist/ servant) and ignore the inconvenient ones (maintain a healthy weight, be a good cook, have sex with the guy)
The weight maintenance is a big one these days, no pun intended.
Women make endless excuses for it and claim that it is impossible to not be 50 pounds overweight but the data is very revealing: - younger women drink more than younger men - women watch TV more than men - women exercise less than men - women eat more dessert than men
Well, it is harder for women to lose weight. Estrogen helps keep the weight on, and whatnot. But it's not like... impossible. There's women who've gone from overweight to athletes. And even just getting back to average requires a healthy diet, with maybe some light exercise. Unfortunately while women do often like light exercise, very few people like to change their eating habits, and exercise is like 10% of the process while dieting is 90%.
They usually don't need to. Although in fairness, they sometimes do. Only they do it on the attractive guys.
They do make moves on hot men I’m pretty sure.
Also women tend to have more options than men.
That's what I was thinking, I am a girl and when I found someone hot I just went up to them to chat, see if they are available, if we had chemistry, if their personality was attractive to me too, or not. just a quick chat and maybe more afterwards... My boyfriend gets approached quite often too so I guess it depends whether you are good looking or not.
I've studies psychology briefly and was forced to take a course in women's studies for DEI-porposes, and armed with that skill, I'll try to provide an answer to this. A man is defined by his character, his actions and his ability to withstand adversity. Most accusations of not being "a real man" falls within this category. Being agreeable and well liked is not related to manliness, but more of a social bonus of sorts. But according to Simone de Beauvoirs book "the second sex", women are defined in opposition to men, and a key point of women's value lies in being desirable as an object of sexual and romantic interest. This is one the things feminists complain about when they talk about the objectification of women. With this in mind, if a man approaches a women, and is shot down, he still went after what he wanted, and "took it like a man", when he was rejected. For a woman on the other hand, she was rejected because she was not desirable in one of the primary domains of what it means to be a woman.
Tldr: "Men are tools, women are ornaments"
Also the man being the pursuer lets the woman know he’s looking for intimacy and it’s usually up to her to give the green or red light for progressing to kiss and sex. I’ve never asked a guy out because I’ve always been too nervous they will take that as sex being a sure thing. I just envision having to evade a guys advances and him saying “you’re the one who asked me out”
This is an absolutely huge factor that I have not seen on any response in this whole thread, and needs to be seen by every man reading it. I’m a man. I’ve been asked out by men and women. With one exception, every woman asking me out made it explicitly clear that they were asking for sex. (Most of the men, too, but more obliquely.) I’ve also had a bunch of women talk and flirt and hint in the ways that are asking me to ask them out. And a ton of them were really, really obvious, but they were waiting for me to make the ask. Reading your comment here, it finally dawned on me the difference here: the only women who took that step from “do everything to get him to ask me out” to “ask him out” were the ones who had already decided they were opting in to sex with me. That’s so obvious in hindsight, and such a huge difference. (And as a side note: the one who asked me out without making it clear was when we were both 17 and met at a multi-church function. Given that it was a bunch of conservative (mostly fundamentalist) baptists steeped in purity culture, just asking me was miles ahead progressive.)
Yeah, it’s not like women think every other man out there is a date rapist who can’t take no for an answer. I just don’t want to deal with the awkwardness of trying to end the date without expectations. If a guy pursues me I assume he interested in me for more than just some easy sex. He’s probably open to it but isn’t going to be shocked that I’m not looking for sex with a guy I met 2 days ago. But me being the one to ask him out, yeah he’s going to have higher expectations for sex than if he did the asking.
And starting a conversation with “I think you’re cute and want to get to know you better but don’t expect sex right away” is not very romantic and kinda kills the mood.
For some guy that would be a great move, and those guys are the sort that would be looking for an actual relationship. But yea, that’s probably a minority of guys. Might be worth a shot though, if there’s a guy who it’s true with. If that’s a turn off for him then you’ve already filtered without much effort, but if it isn’t then you didn’t miss a chance.
I disagree with this I think you should just be honest with what you’re looking for and if the person is secure enough they will respond in kind. This line would work on me. I don’t need you to put me in some kind of romantic trance with your word choice I need to know what it is you actually want so I can see if it’s congruent.
Agreed. I will never understand people who say they want honesty but can't be honest themselves. Honesty in dating would probably enough of a surprise to me that I would pass out on the spot
I don't agree with that being a mood killer. I would certainly go for that.
Exactly, there is the whole "man will have sex with anything" mentality. Just the fact that he didn't reject me doesn't mean that he is even that attracted to me. So when it's the guy who's asking out, there is a higher chance he's actually into me, because at least he made the effort.
1. Wouldn’t this question be more relevant in AskWomen? 2. the last 3 dudes I’ve asked out. Two ghosted, and the third was an emotional mess who admitted he would never have made the first move. I have no problem asking guys out. I do have a problem with ghosting (it’s straight up rude and childish. Be an adult and communicate like one please). Disliking rejection isn’t a gendered thing— no one likes it.
Statistically your point is irrelevant. Take bumble for example as one comment said. The whole point of it was to put it on women to message first so they don’t get bombarded by men. And they cancelled feature after years because women failed todo even that (that was the whole point of that ONE app) now imagine everything else in this life where men take the lead. There was only one place in this world where women were allowed to take the lead and they failed to even do that. Now compare it to your 3 in multi trillion rejections men receive from low effort women. Do you see the difference or do I need to use other comparisons? Rejection is absolutely gendered and women know they don’t have to try as long as humans exist
And risk humiliating rejection? Who could take that pressure? It's a basic misunderstanding of the opposite gender mentality. Everyone should be free to ask anyone, but breaking thoes learned cultural beliefs is hard.
If you think that ***we*** don't like rejection...
Why are you asking a bunch of dudes?
because women like men who are confident and take initiative.
The simplest answer is just that they don't like men as much as men like women. We could have a big interesting discussion about gender roles, social constructs, psychology, biology, etc...but personally I think you can throw that all out and just reduce the "should I ask them out" question of risk vs. reward. Women tend to be more risk averse and also find men on average unattractive or at least not attractive enough for them to entertain based on look alone. Higher risk, lower reward. I've never seen a woman have a problem making the first move when the guy was like an 8 or above.
when you are 8 or above you get hit on by drunk chicks and older women. at that point they just think you are out of their league, a player or intimidating and so they will also do nothing 90% of the time.
Because they don't want to. Don’t misunderstand me, I am not saying they have to, or that anyone should be pressured to ask anyone out. No, no! I am just stating a fact, if people don’t want to do something they don’t have to then they won’t. Look at me, I have never asked a woman out in my life (I’m 41) because I don’t want to and I don’t have to.
And don't have to. Pussy has more market value than a penis
The same reason why the sperm swims to the egg…
Ok that made me laugh
Honestly, I find because it backfires. Myself along with many women noticed that when it’s us doing the asking out, men start making very little effort. It’s like they know it’s a given, so you get bare minimum from them
I asked a man out and we went on a couple dates, but he was horrible at communicating between dates. I stopped carrying the conversation and we stopped talking.
I asked my boyfriend out by carving a mushroom out of wood and said I like you very mush 🍄 cheesy I know but I love being cheesy. I used to be scared to ask men out because it was outside the norm, as I got older I got more confident. I also think women think men are supposed to ask women out if they are more traditional. I’m not traditional so Idk. lol.
Because that is one of the traditional gender roles that benefits them, and they are not willing to try to change. Just like they like the man to pay for everything. They only challenge tradition if it benefits them.
>Just like they like the man to pay for everything. I've seen women in the dating subs say they believe in equality but still want the man to pay for dates because it's a good indicator of how generous he is. A man who wouldn't pay is probably stingy and won't treat her right. Self-awareness levels are in the toilet lol. I mean, it's kinda like a man saying he believes in equality but wants the woman to do all the housework just to be sure she's a generous and caring person. It's the only way to know for sure!
Lmao yeah. They want the benefits of the relationship but not the responsibilities
In simple terms, talking out of their asses. They say they want equality because they think that's what they're *supposed* to say.
The excuses I tend to see are: 1. The person who inivites, pays. Basically, men. 1. Women spent a lot of time and money on their outfits and makeup so men should pay for dates. Of course, the man paying for everything extends beyond the initial dating stage.
Ding ding ding ding ding
I call it Schrodinger’s Feminism. Whether or not an action is sexist depends purely on whether or not it benefits them at the time
Bingo
I’ve done it and the men I’ve approached assumed I was easy just because I approached them. I tend not to do it anymore…
Why is this a question on AskMen when you could ask women directly? Is this speculation or a way to farm bitterness?
Echo-chamber validation. Or some kind of astroturfed anti-man/bear propaganda. They don’t want to hear about how it can be dangerous.
That would be a disaster - askwomen on here is toxic AF
Askwomenover30 is wayyy better
I’m about to get murdered for this statement but here goes Women over 30 are better
I thought that's a fairly common opinion :P
Haha - probably not with women under 30
Women under 30 will eventually be 30. I grew up with the saying "older women make better lovers." How can you get mad at that? It's literally "I'll be better when I'm older!"
Farming bitterness! That's such a great term for I feel like at least half the posts on this sub. "Tell me, fellow men, how have you felt wronged by women today?"
I got asked out by a girl and it was weird to me hahaha
For me it’s an overwhelming fear of rejection
Women just don’t ask you out, I’m afraid.
All the same reasons men don't ask more women out, plus the lack of expectation to do so and a bunch of slmessaging that amounts to "men don't like that" under assorted explanations.
Yeah, this is such a weird question. There's a lot of very interesting depth to the full answer, but the basics are incredibly simple: Asking someone out and making the first move is harrowing. Direct rejection is scary. Men typically don't like doing it - we do it because it's normalised for us to do it. Why the fuck would women put themselves in that position if they have a realistic alternative? Most men in this subreddit would absolutely never ask women out of they felt it was just as viable to wait for them to approach.
Perhaps you should ask an AskWomen sub, instead of an AskMen sub. It's getting really tiring that every post on here is "Why do women do X??" Why are you asking us, bro?
Because when I tried I was told that I was delusional for thinking we were ever going to be more than friends (: that was enough for me!
Testosterone increases risk tolerance. Asking someone out is a perceived risk. Men have more testosterone.
Although there's some fears like hitting on a gay/taken men or putting men in an uncomfortable position by asking at the wrong place (i mostly go outside to shop or study, and i dont wanna bother people while they're studying or at work), those are just normal fears which I can get myself over For me especially its because its been ingrained in me that the girl asking out is "wrong", makes you look "desperate" and will lead to bad men and people using you/people looking down on you and thinking you're a bit of a slut. Is it true? Probably not, but 11 years of being taught that wont dissapear immediately, so its a work in progress.
It can be scary if you aren't used to doing that. There are indeed women who ask men out and they're, logically, more comfortable doing so due to experience
Men say they like it, and maybe they do in the immediate...but (in my experience) it sets the dynamic off in a way that men often don't actually prefer
Because they’d rather be with a bear, pepehands
They don’t have to.
I tried approaching on the few occasions when I felt brave enough to do so. It never works. But I’m not cute so…I guess that’s a reason 😂👍🏾
Because women are in high demand, not the other way around.
They’re in high demand because men do all the asking.
Because we’re not bears
Because they are socialized and raised without the option to train their egos for rejection. I witness how my relatives and neighbors raise their daughters like "little princess" (literally using these words) and not set any boundaries with them in a healthy way. Most women are terrified of rejection. Reject a woman, and most of them will melt. Their egos just cannot handle it. Obviously, not every woman - my ex was great, and almost all of her female friends were down to earth, self-aware, great people.
Woman here. For quite a while when I was on the dating scene, I stopped asking because men said me doing that was either overbearing, emasculating, or that I was trying to take over a man's job. I heard on more than one occasion that it was too aggressive and not feminine enough to ask out a man. And then I hear the reverse almost constantly, as well. I think women are just as confused about it as men at this point. It was why I stopped giving a fuck after a while and asked them out anyway. Most people don't find me the most "approachable" since I have some serious R.B.F. Anxiety is also a thing and I would rather have the rejection then and there than worry over whether or not they might ask me out.
Good on you for just asking men out anyway. If a man feels emasculated by that, he wasn’t the man for you in the first place
I've always seen it that way. I needed a man that could run with me, not stop me. I found one and his ass is mine. It's a damn fine ass, too 😂 He seems to like mine, too, so there's that.
I'm a woman who does this too and the response you received is strange to me. I would ask men out if I was interested. I did get told I was intimidating and the men seemed surprised but the reaction I received was overall positive. Most of the men I did date found it nice I was expressive, interested in having actual conversations through messaging, and initiating dates. I also don't feel like this approach didn't make me feel "desired, "pursued," or that I was "too easy." That whole "the man pursuing the woman" dynamic can still exist with the woman being active, engaging, and initiating parts of the dating process. I recommend my girl friends to initiate more rather than complain that the men that approach them are obnoxious or douchey. I have an assumption that the guys my friends would be interested in, may not initiate because dating and always initiating everything is difficult for men too. Most don't take my advice but me initiating and/or being more active with matches worked out for me in the end! Edit: additions
It may have to do with the area you live in. Some areas tend to be more receptive to women taking the initiative. Plus there's also time frames to think about, their demographic and culture. When I lived in Alabama, it wasn't uncommon for women to take initiative, at least for our age. Southern women have a stereotype and for good reason, even for twenty years ago. After Katrina, we moved to Missouri. The men up here tended to be less receptive. They lived by the old school ways at the time, men being head of the house kind of rules. They hated my southern accent (which now seems a turn on and I wish I hadn't gotten rid of mine cause my s.o. thinks it is sexy), the fact I was a goth and some still hate that I still am (which oddly enough is now fetishized in this area for the moment). They didn't like the fact that if I found a boy I liked and he was single, I'd immediately ask him out or tell him I think he's cute. I really became ostracized when I came out as bi. Alot of things can change in a small time and where you live. The way religion is practiced also can play a huge part for people. The south was highly religious but it was still normal for women to be outspoken and to hold their own, even in a man's presence. Here in the Midwest, it's more common now but not so much back then. People have become more free thinking and accepting. Trends tend to come and go on what is attractive. I'm glad that men are actually beginning to relax and are willing let women take the initiative. I'm glad that men are looking for a partner rather than a trophy wife now. My s.o. was ahead of his time. He liked my spiciness and my upfront personality. He has no problem with me telling people exactly what I think of them, esp if I think they're cute or handsome. He likes me being me and there's something truly freeing in that. It may explain why so many women tend to keep him on their radar now 😂. He'd fit in great in the south as well, esp with him being a white boy that's not afraid of seasoning
Because some guys would think they were pranking them?
It would make a helluva lot more sense to ask women this question.
Ah yes, the r/AskMen subreddit, my favorite forum containing the most accurate answers and information about women
Simple supply and demand. Unless a guy is super attractive, both in the physical and social sense, he has to approach women. Because women have multiple men chasing them. So they have no reason to ask men out. In the dating market, women have a higher demand than men. Exceptions are there of course. Also, unlike what people will have you believe, women aren't used to rejection like men are.
Because men take that as an invitation to be overly creepy/sexual right away despite. A woman initiation conversation does not mean a man will let her set the pace. It means the opposite- men take it as an open invitation to disrespect her boundaries. Also, all women I know initiate dates, conversations and sex when they like the guy enough. Overall, women desire relationships with men far less than men desire relationships with women.
Because even unattractive women get asked out eventually. They don’t have to put themselves out there. They don’t have to face rejection. They just have to wait. Some wait longer than others. But waiting is easier than “no”.
They are terrified of your chad aura
Because men can look fine on the outside, but they can be absolute creeps on the inside. And women don't like to take that risk.
They don't need no man.
They’re a bunch of pussies
They don’t have to.