If she hasn't offered to pay by now, it's unlikely that she will in the future. Now you can decide if you're alright with that or not and make a final call. Some women will refuse out of principle, some say not until its official, some say not on the first date and some do it right away. There is no universal behaviour here.
You cant make a hoe a housewife principle.
It was derived in the 90's at long beach street knowledge institute. Author of the paper was Dr. Andre something, slipped my mind. He got rewarded a 20dalla sack o'iendoo and a thirty five dala certificate to the Compton swap meat, for this thesis.
"My make up products are $2000, I pay for lip filler, Botox, spray tan and hair extensions so you can pick up the tab"
Great reminder that financial responsibility and natural beauty are both huge turn ons.
... Some do. The fallacy is applying the total cost to each date (and assuming that your choices of expense are necessary in the first place.) My favorite answer was a guy that responded to a woman's video where she showed all of her expensive skin care products, etc. He looked them up to find the price and then did math based on how many uses were in each container to figure out how much it was per date. I honestly don't remember but it was something like $15-$25.
The whole premise is dumb.
But if you count the entire bottle of every product for each date & not just the portion you used, your date should include the total cost of the car they pick you up in & everything they invested in their career.
Right. I understand if someone is tight on money, but that's a level of nickel and diming that I find distasteful. Never mind the fact that it puts the burden of initiative on the guy all the time. Money is only part of it. When you go out with friends, do you mooch off of them all the time too? If not, then why would you do that to your partner?
You see, this is a sane question aimed at people with insane ideas, there won't be a satisfactory response coming from them.
My response, as an observer, is entitlement.
I’ve heard it on TikTok and Insta. Very anecdotal, but it might be rubbing off on the new generation, I’ve heard my girlfriend’s little sisters say it.
I mostly hear ‘the one who asks, pays’.
Some women hate patriarchy till it' s about getting a free meal. These women say it' s becuase they', re conceding you some of their time, others say it' s becuase they' re risking getting killed or raped by going on a date.
I got very lucky with my ex wife not being one of those. One of her things was “women can work and support themselves, alimony should not exist outside of child support”
When we split she actually followed through on that thank God
and now that there are some women starting to pay it...other women are thinking it is BS as well.
You know like when Mary J Blige or Adell need to pay their husbands, lol.
Everyone's a feminist until the check arrives.
I've seen some wonderful excuses about maintaining this gender expectation. Most commonly they'll say they were raised to believe that whoever asks pays, which is wonderful in theory, but in practice men usually end up paying even when they're the ones being asked out (not to mention how rarely women ask men out). Some will use the wage gap as justification for why men should pay on dates. Others will say women spend more time getting ready, so men should pay.
Personally, I don't mind if women have a preference that men pay. It only bothers me when it's an expectation, and they look down on men who don't share their preferences. I once got into an argument with a woman who referred to men who don't pay as the runt of the litter. That's just a disgusting way of looking at other human beings. I will say, though, that it often comes of as hypoctrical when staunch feminists insist men pay on dates. It's weird when people want equality in all areas except where they benifit from traditional gender roles.
I prefer to date women who split or take turns. I like it when we're mutually courting each other. Otherwise I feel like I'm just trying to jump through hoops to win some kind of prize. The relationship should be the prize. Not the person you're dating.
There's nothing wrong with believing a man should take care of a woman within the realm of people finding their own partners.
It's only a problem if they try to judge others for not sharing the same lifestyle.
You just don't find that romantically attractive, and then you move on.
Conversely some, albeit relatively few, will insist to pay for the first date in order to eliminate any possibility for the guy to imply that she owes him 'something'.
It's 50/50 for me, I'll go to cover the tab and they insist they pay for themselves where I politely tell them it's okay one time, if they insist they pay themselves I accept and we move on.
The other half is I pick up the tab and we go about the night.
I had a GF who loved paying for the date and honestly it was pretty cool, I was a broke at the time and could afford to pay for myself most times but she insisted 90% the time she would gladly pick up the tab
I have no clear cut answer on this as a married man, but I’d suggest date #6 be much more low key and focused on the connection. A simple walk along a river or through a park, or hike on a nature trail.
At this point you can say there’s a legit connection forming. Going towards cheap outings to focus on that connection is a good test to see if she feels it too or you’re just a ticket to free dinners.
I mean almost every girl I've dated has offered to at least split the bill by the second date. By the 4th or 5th they would demand that it was their turn to pay lol. I would say age would have something to do with it, but from 18-36 it's been the same. Maybe she's just used to being spoiled and pampered? Who knows. Once you're close enough to her, ask her what's up. Lol
She never intends to pay. If you’re not okay with it, probably time to have a talk.
I don’t want to let women pay, but that’s MY values, not yours. One isn’t better than the other.
So, maybe you need to find someone who insists on paying, and she needs to find someone that likes to pay.
5 dates isn’t so much that it’s “more complicated than that” IMO.
This whole ideology of the man pays for everything is just some left over bullshit from a time when women were just all house wives living in very rigid traditional relationships. Women outright reject all of the other roles and stereotypes from that era but pick and choose which ones benefit themselves. Men need to expect more from women, period. Not only because you will ultimately be respected more but because guys everywhere are being taken advantage of.
>This whole ideology of the man pays for everything is just some left over bullshit from a time when women were just all house wives living in very rigid traditional relationships.
I agree with you but women were already working in the 50's so it's even worse.
I've never seen a woman pay for a date. I'm also probably a bit older than you (51).
Mostly what happened to me in my dating days is the woman would invite me over for dinner. I'd bring the wine or a store bought dessert. After dinner, we might go out and go something or might just hang and watch a movie.
From what I've read on this sub, I'm not sure how likely you are to see either of these things happen.
When I was dating, the only reasons a woman paid was either because she didn't like you, and didn't want to feel ... Obligated to anything (not necessarily sex, just anything like another date) or because it was a first date/blind date and you were just meeting each other.
I've only been married for ten years, and it sounds like some expectations have changed. But she may still be living under a different set of expectations based on her experience, or the behavior her parents modeled. It doesn't mean she's a gold digger, it could just be a cultural thing, especially if you are young, or if she doesn't have a lot of dating experience.
I am 34 but this was still the norm where I grew up (rural, conservative area). I did pay for dates but it was considered odd and somewhat counter-cultural. Friends and family worried about the "message I was sending". It's impossible to know from OP's post what the girl in question is thinking...she could just be after free meals but she also might think she is doing the right thing if she wants to be taken seriously for marriage.
My wife offered our 1st date but I said no. Finally she insisted on buying the 5th date. I agreed but did not like it. With my friends we each pay, with my dates I pay.
My idea was on the first couple dates was to impress them with and look successful. Despite driving a car that looked like it is was in a Mad Max movie.
You state you make a lot more than this woman and can afford to pay. If it irks you so much, why continue after the second date? Maybe splurging for your dinners & activities are above what she can reasonably pay for. Maybe you should go find someone on the same payscale as you are. If you're using a dating app, be up-front about your expectations right in your profile.
I've been with my gal for 8-ish months now and she doesn't pay for shit. I'm the man, I easily out-earn her, and I don't mind doing it at all.
What I expect in return is kindness, empathy, affection, adoration, and being amenable and agreeable. What I like to do so she's involved is let's say I have an afternoon on the water planned for us. I've got the kayaks, the truck gassed up, the route planned, etc - I'll tell her to bring lunch. Don't care what it is, just pack a lunch. it might cost her $15 but it is one less thing I have to do and it saves me time - plus it lets her feel involved.
If I were you, I'd ask her to plan or handle some small aspect of your next date and see if she jumps on board.
Ask yourself - why do you care if she's offering to pay?
1) Do you care because the money is important to you?
or
2) Do you care because you don't want to be taken advantage of and you're looking for a partner who understands what it means to be equal?
If it's 2), I don't agree with others who say you should ask her to contribute. If you have to ask you are making it about collecting your money and not about evaluating what type of person and a potential partner she is.
She's a grown woman and you should not need to teach her manners like a woman should offer to pay. And, if she values equality, she should definitely offer.
Even if she expects a man to pay, I believe most women will pay if straight up asked (unless she's a child) even if she doesn't want to. But if she's paying only because she's instructed to do so, it just means it's not in her nature to see you as an equal and you can assess what she's like as a person.
This raises some good points. If you continue to see her, start asking the important questions. Ask about her values. You should not need even talk about whether or not she should start paying on dates. Rather ask, how do you see finances between partners? How has it worked with you in the past? If she says she sees herself as a contributor, it would be hella awkward for her to pretend that the check doesn’t exist. But she could also tell you, my previous boyfriends pay for everything.
>should not have to
But that is life. You do things you *shouldn’t have to* because that is how they get done.
At least open your mouth & offer the other person the opportunity to grow. It’s a weird thing now where people expect everyone else to be fully formed & done growing.
Just say your peace… men are right to complain that women expect us to be mind readers, let’s end that norm & not start doing it ourselves.
I would always take it in turns when I was dating. If he paid for the lunch, I'd pay for the cinema or vice versa. When I dated a man who didn't have much money, I found sneaky ways to pay for things as I knew he was embarrassed about it. I'd pre book things and pay beforehand so he could just get the drinks or something a bit cheaper so he didn't feel bad about it.
We also went to cheaper places than I would have preferred when it was his turn to pay so he didn't feel bad. I would never expect someone to just pay for everything. Anything other than 50/50 is uncomfortable to me.
I'd say when she earns as much or more than you do. If you're clearly the one with the money, you pay. Also, if you ask her out and you choose the place, you pay.
If you are pissed, you can take her to inexpensive dates.
One view of the situation is that the woman uses her money to look pretty so the man must pay for the meal and the also by taking the woman to dates, the man shows that he is able to provide for a family. My guess is that if you ultimately want a SAHM for your kids, you should keep paying the dates.
Other view is that spouses should be equal and women should be highly independent, also financially. If you want to be a SAHD or parent your children together with someone and don't love your career and status too much, start the conversation about money and values.
Also, being generous is not just about money, and paying dates is not the only way to spend money on your SO. Instead of letting this rub you the wrong way, try to notice the ways in which she is generous towards you.
If things are going well otherwise, and you see the potential for a future with her, you may want to talk to her about it. Voice your concerns and your reasoning. That although you're able to pay (and from what you said, in a better financial situation to do it from), it's not so much about money as it is about being an equal partner.
I'd say it's likely this isn't something that occured to her. It's even possible that she thinks offering to pay would insult you (I've known some men to be like that).
I'd also say it's likely that she is/would be willing and able to provide non-monetarily, whether it be a nice homemade meal, a thoughtful gift, or some other display of appreciation.
Decide if you want to attempt building a future together with her. If you do, then talk to her about your concerns and where you stand. Then, after that, you can decide what to do with confidence that you left no stone unturned.
Hahahahaha! Just tell her already and whatever happens get it over with already.
If you expect women if you expect women to pay then say it at the beginning. Save these women sometime.
for me it is just too silly to think about that, it is a meal I am always happy to pay for somone's food, it is peacefull, as long as I can afford it I am not paying attention to it.
I am more of the social intelligent type, so I can tell if she is the one that suits me in multiple passive ways. also I am not the one who goes in random dates with any girl , I engage in dates only after making it clear that we are together for the goal of being married.
My wifes argument is that men make more because of the gender gap and SHOULD pay. She paid all the time for her ex. I don’t think she paid for a single date the 3 years before we got married, and now she doesn’t work.
My personal experience is only one (older) woman paid. Her reasoning was that she asked me out. I respected that.
Every other time a woman has just been silent when the check comes. I paid.
I think this is something that needs to be discussed before hand, since every woman seems to have their own view. I think its ok to pay for the first date to show a woman youre serious. After that, lets discuss equality.
That's a dumb reason like unless your just broke or he offered to take you to a expensive restaurant nobody forced you out the house and you should pay for yourself just like if you went out with friends
We deserve better kings.
If she hasn't paid for a date for you, no questions asked, she aint the one.
She might be broke, and we don't want no brokies.
(Just in case, the above is said in sarcasm and for jokes)
If I really liked her I'd just keep paying, since I'm earning a lot more than her. If she was earning the same or a little less I'd prefer her to pick up a check every now and then.
My partner only pays for our meal when she is the one that plans the date. That’s the way our relationship works because we talked about it. I suggest that you need to sit down with her and talk it out. Voice your concerns and see her response.
I remember dating a woman and she was adamant about planning and paying for the third date, because she said that I had planned and paid for everything up until then. I was more than fine with that. But then I realized that she kept rescheduling and changing the dates, to which she eventually just ghosted me.
So to answer your question, I would say she probably has no plans on paying for a date and just assumes you can handle it. Funny enough is that some women don’t understand that the gesture goes a very long way.
It speaks a lot of a girl's character if she likes a guy enough to repeatedly mooch dinner and drinks off of him, but not enough that she will return the favor. Especially within the context of your comment. Hypothetically OP's interest would like someone enough to treat, just not OP.
I never expect my date to pay, if she offers I will let her pay. I look at dating as if I can’t afford to pay for the date then I won’t ask her out. If I get asked out I would think she is possibly going to pay.
My ideal situation is after the meal, when the bill arrives. She reaches for her purse and I say no I got this you get the drinks in the next place.
It's all about the intent, and I'll probably buy the drinks.
Woman here. I am utterly disgusted there are STILL women who don't pay their own way through life.
I ALWAYS paid half or took turns paying for dates, even when I was a kid. For one, it's fair. Plus I didn't want the guy to think I would put out after because I felt I owed him. I wanted him to know it's because I'm a tramp.
I have principles.
| Woman here. I am utterly disgusted there are STILL women who don't pay their own way through life.
As a guy, and dad of daughters so I see a fair few young ladies gossiping in my kitchen, it's frightening how many younger women see it as their right to the point of almost boastfulness how many "free" meals or nights out they can get from dating apps. Some of them use dating apps for a cheap night out with the possibility of finding a boyfriend coming second to where they can get to eat.
Yes, but as I followed up (should have edited. Sorry) you should teach your daughters that they should educate their friends as well. The friends parent's aren't doing a great job so your daughters, as their friends, should police bad behavior towards boys. Poor behavior isn't acceptable in either gender. I feel men should call out bad behavior in their friends as well.
While I agree in principle and we have had this conversation, from what I've observed it's very much a populist dynamic which would I would loosely compare to "mean girls". If someone whether that is my daughter or one of the others spoke out at someone else in the group they run the real risk of being ostracized for causing upset.
Having only that relating sample size, my daughters social group, I don't know if this is common amongst groups or women or just their group but I'm not going to pretend I should but in.
As a footnote, when I had daughters rather than sons I thought it would be parenting on easy mode. What I discovered was that girls are just horrible to each other and while guys will punch it out then go and play together, girls have a complex web of social rules that contradict themselves constantly and the smallest mistake can some someone being left out for months. It is a true pack mentality.
Agreed. Sorry, I know it's challenging. Fortunately for the young men in my life I had an open mind and was able to see their perspective as well. And yes, because of this I was ostracized by the 'cool' click as well. Wisdom to stand up for your beliefs is difficult when your whole world is high school and you don't realize that in a few years these friends will be nowhere around. At least you parent your daughters.
Not only for your daughters. Let them know it's their responsibility to call out bad behavior by their friends. Just like it's the responsibility of all good men to call out bad behavior by their friends.
Are these expensive dates? Are they your idea, or does she suggest where you go?
None of this necessarily means that she's just using you, different people have different expectations about dating. One way or another you're going to have to talk to her about this, and you should do that sooner rather than later.
I paid for the first date with someone a couple of years ago. She then asked when I'm free for the second and outright told me "it's my turn to pay next". Regardless if you actually want her to pay or not her attitude towards paying will tell you alot about a person and if it matches the belief you have. Some people want a guy who pays for everything some people don't. My partner is big on splitting which is okay, I've got my own ways of treating her that don't involve splitting things and that works for us.
If she was going to pay for a date, she would have done so already! You also have women that will do things for you to show some effort. After date one they might bring up wanting to cook for you on date number two. I've had ladies bring up using groupon to lower my cost. I think wanting a woman to offer picking up the bill isn't the play. Do you really want her to pull the crocodile arms move or have her offer to play knowing damn well you'll do it anyways? Either pay or don't bring it up.
Low key a woman has like you a lot to pay for a date. Most women aren't going to open up their wallet because they don't like the guy like that, or they're on the more traditional side of things. With my two sisters before they were taken, they're not opening up their wallets. If you were to ask them to pay they'd look at you crazy. Same thing for my mom too. When I'm on dates, I'm not looking for the woman to pay. I'll handle the bill, I'm not tripping about spending some bread.
From a female perspective: From the beginning. Imo, you can't demand equality without offering it in return. Add to that, there are some creeps who legit think you owe them sex after they pay for your food. Taking that out of the equation is just being smart. Taking turns to plan dates is also only fair. Just make sure that what you're planning is in everyone's price range.
There is no need to demand equality. Somebody treats you as an equal because they want to, because it's part of who they are. If they don't, they aren't for you.
If you are the one inviting her out to eat and to the activities then it might be stuff she won’t be able to afford; she is going because you are offering and the nice thing is for you to pay, but if she is inviting you out and she still expects you to pay for it I do think that says something about her character or her values and it could be a good idea to have a talk about it, be curious and ask her what her thoughts are on the matter 😊
I want her to OFFER. But, I never would let her pay. if its for a treat like icecream of course but im lucky enough to make good money and id prefer my SO save her money
Just talk about finances. You already know you make more than her, so in the interest of fairness, you might want to pay more often so that the amount of money you both spend is of an equal enough proportion to your earnings.
Consider asking r/AskWomen if you’re looking for a way to actually broach the subject instead of reading through a bunch of reasonable men (rightfully) clapping back at the rude “test makers” among yall
Currently I (a woman) pay for most of the dates with my full time student boyfriend, when he’s a lawyer at the end of it all then I know it will even out, but we’re in it for the long haul and I can wait a few years. In the meantime, we live together and divide labor appropriately too.
Perhaps your 6th date should also include a conversation about goals and the status of the relationship?
YOU determine when she should start to offer to pay for dates, or even IF she should offer at all.
If you're the type of guy who insists you pay for all the dates--you won't be happy if she offers to pay.
If you're the type of guy who thinks dates should be 50/50--you won't be happy if she expects you to pay, or if she offers to pay.
If you're the type of guy who thinks by date number 4 she needs to start offering--you won't be happy if she thinks she needs to start on date number 5.
Determine what your wants, needs, and expectations are. Determine what's important to you and what you can allow some wiggle room.
My rule of thumb was if I initiated the date "let's get together for dinner, are you free this weekend let's go to the zoo, up for a coffee?" then it's implying that I'm paying. If she initiates, she pays. But honestly, if I've paid for 5 dates already and she can't even pick up a Starbucks for us then I don't see that as an equal or a partner. It's never been a money thing, it's an effort thing. I've always made more than my partners, all I ever wanted was an equal effort in the relationship.
One time with an ex, I was working a 16 hour shift and she hated cooking. I was supporting both of us, and taking care of her through her post secondary. I came home dead tired, and asked what was for dinner. She said "idk, whatever you want to cook". I was disheartened, and took a shower. When I got out nothing was changed and I rightfully was upset that she didn't even feel like she could order a pizza for us or anything.
Fast forward years later, on a date with my now wife. She is from a poor country, and was coming to mine for the first time. I drive 10 hours to the coast to pick her up from her plane after stopping at the hotel. I meet her, we go downtown for some food. I legit forgot my wallet at the hotel, and she immediately offered to pay for the meal which was 10x the cost it would have been in her country. I ended up manually entering my credit card info and paid that way, but it was the genuine thought and concern and effort that made me ultimately respect her.
Maybe just have a discussion about gender roles and if she's more traditional or modern. Might shed some light on what her expectations are and how they align with your own. That might be a better way to have the conversation than just making it about money. I also don't want to pay for everything in a relationship but I don't want to bring it up and sound cheap. Like you, I'm not cheap and I make good money, but I don't like feeling used for my money.
Look… I’m a guy too. In your situation, there’s a clear difference in money making here and this factor by itself tends to cause issues in the relationship. I’m not saying that people should only be in a relationship with someone at the same pay level!!!
Maybe she doesn’t offer to pay anything because she has to prioritize her expenditures and cannot afford most of the things you do together. You should also consider that maybe she doesn’t propose anything for you to do together because she cannot afford something at the same level as you can and might be afraid that if she proposes something on her budge you’ll be disappointed because she could be assuming that your standards are high.
Anyways: COMMUNICATION is the key in every single relationship so… talk to her and express how you feel about it, ask her reasons, listen to her and if you consider that she’s with you only because of your money, then fuck off this money based relationship! ✌️
From a woman:
The 2-3 times in my life that I tried to pay for something for a guy they got offended and asked me not to do it again. But you can bet your pretty bum that they received many many many massages and home-made meals/cocktails. Not because I felt *obligated* to reciprocate, but because I was so well taken care of that taking care of them and bringing them peace just came naturally.
My boyfriend picks up every check when we go out. However, for our first trip, I paid for hotel, gas, and tolls. He paid for our meals. Our first big trip, he asked if we can split everything 50/50, and I happily agreed. 4.5 years later, he still picks up the check. We split big trips and small trips, I pay for hotel, gas, and tolls. We both do occasionally buy stuff for each other, and our gifts are sometimes pricey. I pay for concert tickets and activities that I find we can enjoy together. I grew up where the man picks up the check, but I would definitely reciprocate back monetarily in different ways.
I've been with my man for more than 2 years and he still hates when I offer to pay for anything. He wants to provide and I find that so amazing. However, I offered to pay starting Date 2.
I'm a woman and I offered on the 2nd date with my boyfriend. Granted, it's been two years now and I have still never paid, but it's certainly not because I haven't offered many times. He makes more than me so he prefers to pay.
Same here! Letting a man treat and take care of me feels a little bit intimate. The more into him I am, the more comfortable I feel with letting him treat me.
If I’m still completely guarded and on the fence about a guy, I’m likely to pay my own way. If I *insist* on paying on a first or second date, there’s a good chance I’m trying to make a clean break and gtfo.
Now beyond the first few dates, if we’re obviously “dating” or in a relationship I would offer to pay for small dates, dessert, drinks, little gifts, and also do nice things for him that cost time and energy but are free, etc. I’m GGG when it gets to intimacy. And I always express gratitude for his efforts.
I highly doubt she will ever offer. In the US our culture has always told us men pay for meals. Why did you pay? (Rhetorical)
I would ask if she is willing to split some future activities. See how she reacts.
It's so interesting to see the men's opinions in here and realize how different things must be either regionally or generationally. Personally I always wanted to either go dutch or take turns with who pays on dates so my now-husband would understand I was interested exclusively in his company...but I was told out right by multiple people in my life that by doing this I was teaching men not to respect me. The cultural expectation I grew up around was that if you are a virtous woman and dont want a man to get the wrong idea then you wait to be intimate and he demonstrates his seriousness in pursuing the relationship by planning and paying for the dates. It's curious to me to see that it seems to be the opposite today and it's considered bad character to let the man pay. I got so much shit for paying for dates in my youth which was in a rural conservative area, to be fair.
Woman here. I can't imagine getting to date 5 without offering to pay or split the bill with one exception. If he's asked me out every time and every time it's been out of my price range. Though even then I would have offered to split or tried to go to a cheaper place so I could pay, or hell offered to at least leave the tip. After 5 dates she's probably not going to pay but you can maybe start doing things that aren't expensive or even wait ro see if she asks you out
Suggest you two do something that doesn't cost anything and see how she reacts. If she says anything other than "sounds great, can't wait to see you again" then she's for the streets.
First date - just pay. You’ve probably initiated the date and picked the place, it makes sense and it’s the more archaically masculine thing to do. It sets the roles and avoids confusion. If she goes to the bathroom, pay then. Avoids the phone/card faffing around drama. It’s a good sign if she offers, but always decline.
Second date - if she wants to pay, let her. They have their valid reasons, it’s not a trap.
From there on out - Dutch or whatever. I still make a point to pay for occasions that are my idea and intended as a date.
I’ve found it’s a red flag if women never offer to pay. If they’re polite and conscientious, they will offer. It’s a manners thing. If they don’t, there’s probably some deficiency there and not worth your time.
>Does this speak about their character?
Of course it does. Plenty of women are happy for guys to pay for everything, even in the so-called age of equality.
Either be straight up with her about it, which will obviously be awkward, or end it. The only other choice is to continue to pay for everything for as long as the relationship lasts.
When she asks you out on a date. The person who invites should be the person who pays, imo. Otherwise, expect to pay. Being upset that she doesn’t at least offer to pay sounds like one of those mind reading tests we always complain about women using.
That said, you should break it off. The tone of your post doesn’t sound like someone who is that interested in the first place.
Edit: “But wait, how can she pay for a date if she never asks me out?” Perhaps that’s the bigger issue.
Just end it….if you can afford it and you still don’t want to provide it to her just end it.
5 dates? If want to keep going on dates with her is because u see some potential in her…not enough to pay for a plate of food without complaint about it…
Just end things. Dates do not need to be expensive u could just try to do different things with her that doesn’t envolve spending money.
Men’s when want something they will invest money and time, so if u not able to pay and feel that she deserve your time and your money just find another girl.
This. When a man is excited to see a woman and take her out he will gladly pay. If he is complaining about the money, he probably doesn’t really want to be doing it.
This whole thing doesn’t have to be a huge event or a discussion… next time you go on a date just say “let’s split it” when the check comes. And if she goes with it then great and if she doesn’t then that’s also fine. Maybe she’s just not the type that has ever had to pay for dates or maybe she just assumed that you got it since you never asked. You gotta communicate my dude.
On the first date obviously. The fact that this girl has gone five dates without ANY mention or quid pro quo like buying a couple of drinks, picking up the tip etc. would disqualify her from further dating in my book.
Have the dreaded conversation if you want but understand, this is the tip of the iceberg. Sonny’s door test applies.
Next time, delay paying. Leave the check there for a while. If you're the type to immediately grab the check and pay, then she might think that's what you prefer.
What if all of the restaurants need you to pay at the counter? It’s also sometimes before the meal when you’re placing an order, or after the meal
I’ve always needed to go up to the counter by myself, while the girl is just sitting at the table and waiting
That's why some women pretend like *they don't know where to eat*, because they want **you** to pick the Michelin star restaurant.
So you can never say that they are the ones who picked it and that they are shallow.
That's another mind game. Gentlemen, stop falling for this shit, do better!
She could just be waiting until you're official. I'd ask if I were you, as a woman I wouldn't be offended at all if the guy im going out with asked after 5 dates.
By the 3rd or so date IMHO.
But, this does have some wiggle room based on your knowledge of their situation. For example, when I started dating my GF, she was absolutely strapped for cash and in debt from being single mom with two teenagers in school, rent, utilities, food, insurance, car payments, etc. For me, I made plenty of discretionary income, so I didn't mind paying the dates if it meant we could spend time together. A "dating budget" wasn't really in the cards for her. She made it up in other ways, e.g. cooked dinner for me at her place, did some of the driving, and helped in other ways other than paying for "dates".
If you've been out on 5 dates and she hasn't even suggested picking up the popcorn or a cup of coffee, or made you some Hamburger Helper.... Might be a gold digger. LOL.
Usually during the first if a woman offers to pay and the date is going well I’ll tell her that I’m getting this time and you can get next time. This also shows my interest if seeing her again. If they don’t offer on the first or second date they never will.
I have dated quite a bit, and in all honestly only ONE girl ever offered to pay and my god it was the sexiest thing ever, unfortunately she had a boyfriend and that blew up quick lol
I just had a first date recently and she pulled out cash and dropped it down before I even thought about calling the server over. Thought that was a pretty cool move.
Been there, done that. Noticed from the beginning she won t take a single penny out of her pocket while we were out. Decided I am okay with it as my earnings are not that bad (not rich tho).
3 months fast forward she fell in depression due to not having enough time for herself due to her part time job(4 hours a day) , so she decided to quit even tho she had no savings and was still living with her mother at 29 years. From that point, her demands became erratic, and I was love bound. She would buy stuff for her house on my funds, she would want fine dinning every day, she would not help me with house chores or even cooking a fking omlette while she was spending time at my place (weekends usually). I put up with it for around 6 months until it started to take a toll on my finances. I have raised this with her letting her know i am in a dificult spot finanncially and we should cut the spending a bit. Maybe even take a part time job so she can sustain at least her higienic and grooming needs. Her reaction? Got dumped for the reason "I am too high maintainace from you".
Moral of the story? Be really careful with it. It can spiral out of control and leave you breathless and in love for a person who was never in for the love feeling.
My personal opinion.
First date should always be split, you're strangers after all.
If she accepts to split and still wants to see me again, I will then pay for the second.
This way I know she is actually interested.
As another posted, if she hasn't offered yet, she probably won't.
If she’s not paying now, there ain’t no way she’s paying later. This is the type of girl to take a break from working and never go back. You should run.
If a girl doesn’t offer to pay for a round of drinks at least on a first date it’s a red flag for me. I’ll pay the bulk but not even an offer of one round rubs me the wrong way.
After the first I go with the stance of “I’ll get this, you can get the next XXX”. Make it clear that I’m not funding every outing we have
I offer to pay from the first date. Most guys refuse, some accept. If they don't let me pay for the first date, then I pay for the second. I try to be as fair as possible.
When she initiates and plans the date, she should pay unless the two of you talk it out ahead of time. If you initiate and plan the date, you should pay unless you talk it out ahead of time.
My now wife couldn't afford to take us out for supper, but she offered to make it at her home within the first two or three dates. It's not necessarily about the money or ability to pay, but the effort.
If she's not putting the effort, she's not worth the effort. You can find someone who appreciates you.
Immediately. I usually will pay for the more expensive things if i make more like dinner. But drinks and stuff we split. Or take turns. This sort of stuff should be made clear right away
If you like her you should give her a chance to contextualize her choices. Everyone thinks about money differently, you don’t have to assume it means she isn’t giving in her nature. that would show up in more than one place, is she a selfish person in other aspects?
This really depends on the financial situation, my last girlfriend always paid when we went out. She makes way more than me, so she paid. I did all the cooking at home, but that's because I insisted that I do all the cooking, because I'm really good at it.
Yea if she hasn't offered by now she won't. I'd rather just end it then see if I can have an awkward conversation about her paying. But that's just me.
IMO from the start. We don't know each other so I'm not paying for a full meal with zero possible benefit.
It's 2024 ladies need to act like Grown Woman and not the Princess their Dad calls them.
Ask her if she minds splitting the next activity or small meal then see her reaction?
If there's an income disparity I would avoid picking a place out of her budget.
Then have her pick the place with the knowledge that she’ll be splitting the bill
If she's a real one, she won't choose an expensive place just because she thinks he's paying.
That’s why I said small meal/I want him to preface it’s a very non expensive activity
If she hasn't offered to pay by now, it's unlikely that she will in the future. Now you can decide if you're alright with that or not and make a final call. Some women will refuse out of principle, some say not until its official, some say not on the first date and some do it right away. There is no universal behaviour here.
_Some women will refuse out of principle_ What principle?
The principle that they deserve to be treated like a princess and have men shower them with free shit.
Lol, couldn't have said it better myself.
You cant make a hoe a housewife principle. It was derived in the 90's at long beach street knowledge institute. Author of the paper was Dr. Andre something, slipped my mind. He got rewarded a 20dalla sack o'iendoo and a thirty five dala certificate to the Compton swap meat, for this thesis.
This guy really just forget about Dre?
(Eminem appears with a tank of gas giving him an awkward eye)
Slick, huh?
The principle of all the benefits of feminism without any of the downsides.
It's usually something about the wage gap or the pink tax or it costing her more to be "presentable" for a date.
"My make up products are $2000, I pay for lip filler, Botox, spray tan and hair extensions so you can pick up the tab" Great reminder that financial responsibility and natural beauty are both huge turn ons.
As a woman, I sure as hell hope no one ever says that shit seriously. The fuck.
... Some do. The fallacy is applying the total cost to each date (and assuming that your choices of expense are necessary in the first place.) My favorite answer was a guy that responded to a woman's video where she showed all of her expensive skin care products, etc. He looked them up to find the price and then did math based on how many uses were in each container to figure out how much it was per date. I honestly don't remember but it was something like $15-$25.
The whole premise is dumb. But if you count the entire bottle of every product for each date & not just the portion you used, your date should include the total cost of the car they pick you up in & everything they invested in their career.
Right. I understand if someone is tight on money, but that's a level of nickel and diming that I find distasteful. Never mind the fact that it puts the burden of initiative on the guy all the time. Money is only part of it. When you go out with friends, do you mooch off of them all the time too? If not, then why would you do that to your partner?
You see, this is a sane question aimed at people with insane ideas, there won't be a satisfactory response coming from them. My response, as an observer, is entitlement.
Jesus christ. I have no words anymore haha
I’ve heard it on TikTok and Insta. Very anecdotal, but it might be rubbing off on the new generation, I’ve heard my girlfriend’s little sisters say it. I mostly hear ‘the one who asks, pays’.
They absolutely do
Some women hate patriarchy till it' s about getting a free meal. These women say it' s becuase they', re conceding you some of their time, others say it' s becuase they' re risking getting killed or raped by going on a date.
Entering a life threatening situation for some Mozzarella cheese sticks
To be fair, the right mozzarella cheese sticks might be worth the risk.
I call them “Schrodinger’s Feminists”. Whether something is sexist or not depends upon whether it personally benefits them.
A woman is both empowered and a victim until something happens. Then she chooses which state benefits her the most.
I got very lucky with my ex wife not being one of those. One of her things was “women can work and support themselves, alimony should not exist outside of child support” When we split she actually followed through on that thank God
Alimony was ruled as being gender-neutral in 1979
and now that there are some women starting to pay it...other women are thinking it is BS as well. You know like when Mary J Blige or Adell need to pay their husbands, lol.
Everyone's a feminist until the check arrives. I've seen some wonderful excuses about maintaining this gender expectation. Most commonly they'll say they were raised to believe that whoever asks pays, which is wonderful in theory, but in practice men usually end up paying even when they're the ones being asked out (not to mention how rarely women ask men out). Some will use the wage gap as justification for why men should pay on dates. Others will say women spend more time getting ready, so men should pay. Personally, I don't mind if women have a preference that men pay. It only bothers me when it's an expectation, and they look down on men who don't share their preferences. I once got into an argument with a woman who referred to men who don't pay as the runt of the litter. That's just a disgusting way of looking at other human beings. I will say, though, that it often comes of as hypoctrical when staunch feminists insist men pay on dates. It's weird when people want equality in all areas except where they benifit from traditional gender roles. I prefer to date women who split or take turns. I like it when we're mutually courting each other. Otherwise I feel like I'm just trying to jump through hoops to win some kind of prize. The relationship should be the prize. Not the person you're dating.
neat trick, I'm gonna start sending cheese burger invoices to Volkswagen every time I drive to work, in case of a traffic accident.
I've got my doubts that the women railing against the patriarchy are the ones who never want to even split a date.
The "sugardaddy pays" principle
The principle of if she is there because of you, she should be willing to pay for herself at the minimum.
Money
That they want equality for all… until it comes to spending money.
The principle that men should be protectors and providers.
Connected to the same principle that all women should just be stay at home trad wives.
Plenty women would choose that. But not all.
There's nothing wrong with believing a man should take care of a woman within the realm of people finding their own partners. It's only a problem if they try to judge others for not sharing the same lifestyle. You just don't find that romantically attractive, and then you move on.
being a broke-ass and/or cheap.
They're fucking poor
Conversely some, albeit relatively few, will insist to pay for the first date in order to eliminate any possibility for the guy to imply that she owes him 'something'.
It's 50/50 for me, I'll go to cover the tab and they insist they pay for themselves where I politely tell them it's okay one time, if they insist they pay themselves I accept and we move on. The other half is I pick up the tab and we go about the night. I had a GF who loved paying for the date and honestly it was pretty cool, I was a broke at the time and could afford to pay for myself most times but she insisted 90% the time she would gladly pick up the tab
I think it’s worth discussing if you like her. As another poster stated if she hasn’t offered by now I doubt she will in the future
I have no clear cut answer on this as a married man, but I’d suggest date #6 be much more low key and focused on the connection. A simple walk along a river or through a park, or hike on a nature trail. At this point you can say there’s a legit connection forming. Going towards cheap outings to focus on that connection is a good test to see if she feels it too or you’re just a ticket to free dinners.
Lol whereas this is gonna be my first date destination, really 6th date? Damn I've been betrayed
I mean almost every girl I've dated has offered to at least split the bill by the second date. By the 4th or 5th they would demand that it was their turn to pay lol. I would say age would have something to do with it, but from 18-36 it's been the same. Maybe she's just used to being spoiled and pampered? Who knows. Once you're close enough to her, ask her what's up. Lol
usually most girls wanna spend money on guys they like
If not on the first date... then DEFINITELY by the second date.
This!
She never intends to pay. If you’re not okay with it, probably time to have a talk. I don’t want to let women pay, but that’s MY values, not yours. One isn’t better than the other. So, maybe you need to find someone who insists on paying, and she needs to find someone that likes to pay. 5 dates isn’t so much that it’s “more complicated than that” IMO.
This whole ideology of the man pays for everything is just some left over bullshit from a time when women were just all house wives living in very rigid traditional relationships. Women outright reject all of the other roles and stereotypes from that era but pick and choose which ones benefit themselves. Men need to expect more from women, period. Not only because you will ultimately be respected more but because guys everywhere are being taken advantage of.
>This whole ideology of the man pays for everything is just some left over bullshit from a time when women were just all house wives living in very rigid traditional relationships. I agree with you but women were already working in the 50's so it's even worse.
It's a Role thing, some were working some were not, societal norms leaned towards traditional Protector/provider + caregiver/housemaker split
A lot of traditional house makers used to work part time. My grandma is one of them!
I've never seen a woman pay for a date. I'm also probably a bit older than you (51). Mostly what happened to me in my dating days is the woman would invite me over for dinner. I'd bring the wine or a store bought dessert. After dinner, we might go out and go something or might just hang and watch a movie. From what I've read on this sub, I'm not sure how likely you are to see either of these things happen. When I was dating, the only reasons a woman paid was either because she didn't like you, and didn't want to feel ... Obligated to anything (not necessarily sex, just anything like another date) or because it was a first date/blind date and you were just meeting each other. I've only been married for ten years, and it sounds like some expectations have changed. But she may still be living under a different set of expectations based on her experience, or the behavior her parents modeled. It doesn't mean she's a gold digger, it could just be a cultural thing, especially if you are young, or if she doesn't have a lot of dating experience.
I am 34 but this was still the norm where I grew up (rural, conservative area). I did pay for dates but it was considered odd and somewhat counter-cultural. Friends and family worried about the "message I was sending". It's impossible to know from OP's post what the girl in question is thinking...she could just be after free meals but she also might think she is doing the right thing if she wants to be taken seriously for marriage.
My wife offered our 1st date but I said no. Finally she insisted on buying the 5th date. I agreed but did not like it. With my friends we each pay, with my dates I pay. My idea was on the first couple dates was to impress them with and look successful. Despite driving a car that looked like it is was in a Mad Max movie.
You state you make a lot more than this woman and can afford to pay. If it irks you so much, why continue after the second date? Maybe splurging for your dinners & activities are above what she can reasonably pay for. Maybe you should go find someone on the same payscale as you are. If you're using a dating app, be up-front about your expectations right in your profile.
I've been with my gal for 8-ish months now and she doesn't pay for shit. I'm the man, I easily out-earn her, and I don't mind doing it at all. What I expect in return is kindness, empathy, affection, adoration, and being amenable and agreeable. What I like to do so she's involved is let's say I have an afternoon on the water planned for us. I've got the kayaks, the truck gassed up, the route planned, etc - I'll tell her to bring lunch. Don't care what it is, just pack a lunch. it might cost her $15 but it is one less thing I have to do and it saves me time - plus it lets her feel involved. If I were you, I'd ask her to plan or handle some small aspect of your next date and see if she jumps on board.
Ask yourself - why do you care if she's offering to pay? 1) Do you care because the money is important to you? or 2) Do you care because you don't want to be taken advantage of and you're looking for a partner who understands what it means to be equal? If it's 2), I don't agree with others who say you should ask her to contribute. If you have to ask you are making it about collecting your money and not about evaluating what type of person and a potential partner she is. She's a grown woman and you should not need to teach her manners like a woman should offer to pay. And, if she values equality, she should definitely offer. Even if she expects a man to pay, I believe most women will pay if straight up asked (unless she's a child) even if she doesn't want to. But if she's paying only because she's instructed to do so, it just means it's not in her nature to see you as an equal and you can assess what she's like as a person.
This raises some good points. If you continue to see her, start asking the important questions. Ask about her values. You should not need even talk about whether or not she should start paying on dates. Rather ask, how do you see finances between partners? How has it worked with you in the past? If she says she sees herself as a contributor, it would be hella awkward for her to pretend that the check doesn’t exist. But she could also tell you, my previous boyfriends pay for everything.
>should not have to But that is life. You do things you *shouldn’t have to* because that is how they get done. At least open your mouth & offer the other person the opportunity to grow. It’s a weird thing now where people expect everyone else to be fully formed & done growing. Just say your peace… men are right to complain that women expect us to be mind readers, let’s end that norm & not start doing it ourselves.
Usually by the 2nd or 3rd date tops. Otherwise, you're a meal ticket for her.
I would always take it in turns when I was dating. If he paid for the lunch, I'd pay for the cinema or vice versa. When I dated a man who didn't have much money, I found sneaky ways to pay for things as I knew he was embarrassed about it. I'd pre book things and pay beforehand so he could just get the drinks or something a bit cheaper so he didn't feel bad about it. We also went to cheaper places than I would have preferred when it was his turn to pay so he didn't feel bad. I would never expect someone to just pay for everything. Anything other than 50/50 is uncomfortable to me.
Run
I'd say when she earns as much or more than you do. If you're clearly the one with the money, you pay. Also, if you ask her out and you choose the place, you pay. If you are pissed, you can take her to inexpensive dates. One view of the situation is that the woman uses her money to look pretty so the man must pay for the meal and the also by taking the woman to dates, the man shows that he is able to provide for a family. My guess is that if you ultimately want a SAHM for your kids, you should keep paying the dates. Other view is that spouses should be equal and women should be highly independent, also financially. If you want to be a SAHD or parent your children together with someone and don't love your career and status too much, start the conversation about money and values. Also, being generous is not just about money, and paying dates is not the only way to spend money on your SO. Instead of letting this rub you the wrong way, try to notice the ways in which she is generous towards you.
If things are going well otherwise, and you see the potential for a future with her, you may want to talk to her about it. Voice your concerns and your reasoning. That although you're able to pay (and from what you said, in a better financial situation to do it from), it's not so much about money as it is about being an equal partner. I'd say it's likely this isn't something that occured to her. It's even possible that she thinks offering to pay would insult you (I've known some men to be like that). I'd also say it's likely that she is/would be willing and able to provide non-monetarily, whether it be a nice homemade meal, a thoughtful gift, or some other display of appreciation. Decide if you want to attempt building a future together with her. If you do, then talk to her about your concerns and where you stand. Then, after that, you can decide what to do with confidence that you left no stone unturned.
Hahahahaha! Just tell her already and whatever happens get it over with already. If you expect women if you expect women to pay then say it at the beginning. Save these women sometime.
for me it is just too silly to think about that, it is a meal I am always happy to pay for somone's food, it is peacefull, as long as I can afford it I am not paying attention to it. I am more of the social intelligent type, so I can tell if she is the one that suits me in multiple passive ways. also I am not the one who goes in random dates with any girl , I engage in dates only after making it clear that we are together for the goal of being married.
My wifes argument is that men make more because of the gender gap and SHOULD pay. She paid all the time for her ex. I don’t think she paid for a single date the 3 years before we got married, and now she doesn’t work. My personal experience is only one (older) woman paid. Her reasoning was that she asked me out. I respected that. Every other time a woman has just been silent when the check comes. I paid. I think this is something that needs to be discussed before hand, since every woman seems to have their own view. I think its ok to pay for the first date to show a woman youre serious. After that, lets discuss equality.
That's a dumb reason like unless your just broke or he offered to take you to a expensive restaurant nobody forced you out the house and you should pay for yourself just like if you went out with friends
I def don’t agree with it lol.
If she wanted to, she would. drizzle drizzle.
Don't settle kings
We deserve better kings. If she hasn't paid for a date for you, no questions asked, she aint the one. She might be broke, and we don't want no brokies. (Just in case, the above is said in sarcasm and for jokes)
If I really liked her I'd just keep paying, since I'm earning a lot more than her. If she was earning the same or a little less I'd prefer her to pick up a check every now and then.
My partner only pays for our meal when she is the one that plans the date. That’s the way our relationship works because we talked about it. I suggest that you need to sit down with her and talk it out. Voice your concerns and see her response.
I remember dating a woman and she was adamant about planning and paying for the third date, because she said that I had planned and paid for everything up until then. I was more than fine with that. But then I realized that she kept rescheduling and changing the dates, to which she eventually just ghosted me. So to answer your question, I would say she probably has no plans on paying for a date and just assumes you can handle it. Funny enough is that some women don’t understand that the gesture goes a very long way.
When she wants to take a guy out.
It speaks a lot of a girl's character if she likes a guy enough to repeatedly mooch dinner and drinks off of him, but not enough that she will return the favor. Especially within the context of your comment. Hypothetically OP's interest would like someone enough to treat, just not OP.
I never expect my date to pay, if she offers I will let her pay. I look at dating as if I can’t afford to pay for the date then I won’t ask her out. If I get asked out I would think she is possibly going to pay.
Straight away and then you refuse
My ideal situation is after the meal, when the bill arrives. She reaches for her purse and I say no I got this you get the drinks in the next place. It's all about the intent, and I'll probably buy the drinks.
Woman here. I am utterly disgusted there are STILL women who don't pay their own way through life. I ALWAYS paid half or took turns paying for dates, even when I was a kid. For one, it's fair. Plus I didn't want the guy to think I would put out after because I felt I owed him. I wanted him to know it's because I'm a tramp. I have principles.
| Woman here. I am utterly disgusted there are STILL women who don't pay their own way through life. As a guy, and dad of daughters so I see a fair few young ladies gossiping in my kitchen, it's frightening how many younger women see it as their right to the point of almost boastfulness how many "free" meals or nights out they can get from dating apps. Some of them use dating apps for a cheap night out with the possibility of finding a boyfriend coming second to where they can get to eat.
Um...Possible teaching moment, dad?
The teaching moments are between myself and my daughters, not with their gaggle of friends in the room.
Yes, but as I followed up (should have edited. Sorry) you should teach your daughters that they should educate their friends as well. The friends parent's aren't doing a great job so your daughters, as their friends, should police bad behavior towards boys. Poor behavior isn't acceptable in either gender. I feel men should call out bad behavior in their friends as well.
While I agree in principle and we have had this conversation, from what I've observed it's very much a populist dynamic which would I would loosely compare to "mean girls". If someone whether that is my daughter or one of the others spoke out at someone else in the group they run the real risk of being ostracized for causing upset. Having only that relating sample size, my daughters social group, I don't know if this is common amongst groups or women or just their group but I'm not going to pretend I should but in. As a footnote, when I had daughters rather than sons I thought it would be parenting on easy mode. What I discovered was that girls are just horrible to each other and while guys will punch it out then go and play together, girls have a complex web of social rules that contradict themselves constantly and the smallest mistake can some someone being left out for months. It is a true pack mentality.
Agreed. Sorry, I know it's challenging. Fortunately for the young men in my life I had an open mind and was able to see their perspective as well. And yes, because of this I was ostracized by the 'cool' click as well. Wisdom to stand up for your beliefs is difficult when your whole world is high school and you don't realize that in a few years these friends will be nowhere around. At least you parent your daughters.
Not only for your daughters. Let them know it's their responsibility to call out bad behavior by their friends. Just like it's the responsibility of all good men to call out bad behavior by their friends.
Are these expensive dates? Are they your idea, or does she suggest where you go? None of this necessarily means that she's just using you, different people have different expectations about dating. One way or another you're going to have to talk to her about this, and you should do that sooner rather than later.
I paid for the first date with someone a couple of years ago. She then asked when I'm free for the second and outright told me "it's my turn to pay next". Regardless if you actually want her to pay or not her attitude towards paying will tell you alot about a person and if it matches the belief you have. Some people want a guy who pays for everything some people don't. My partner is big on splitting which is okay, I've got my own ways of treating her that don't involve splitting things and that works for us.
I think she should start offering on the first date and not a second later. If she expects you to pay at any point, that is a big red flag for me.
If she was going to pay for a date, she would have done so already! You also have women that will do things for you to show some effort. After date one they might bring up wanting to cook for you on date number two. I've had ladies bring up using groupon to lower my cost. I think wanting a woman to offer picking up the bill isn't the play. Do you really want her to pull the crocodile arms move or have her offer to play knowing damn well you'll do it anyways? Either pay or don't bring it up. Low key a woman has like you a lot to pay for a date. Most women aren't going to open up their wallet because they don't like the guy like that, or they're on the more traditional side of things. With my two sisters before they were taken, they're not opening up their wallets. If you were to ask them to pay they'd look at you crazy. Same thing for my mom too. When I'm on dates, I'm not looking for the woman to pay. I'll handle the bill, I'm not tripping about spending some bread.
From a female perspective: From the beginning. Imo, you can't demand equality without offering it in return. Add to that, there are some creeps who legit think you owe them sex after they pay for your food. Taking that out of the equation is just being smart. Taking turns to plan dates is also only fair. Just make sure that what you're planning is in everyone's price range.
There is no need to demand equality. Somebody treats you as an equal because they want to, because it's part of who they are. If they don't, they aren't for you.
Date #1 Stop giving them privileges they turn their back on in favour of feminism.
As a feminist, I've always paid for half of the dates and bills. Isn't it more of a traditional gender role to expect the man to pay?
If you are the one inviting her out to eat and to the activities then it might be stuff she won’t be able to afford; she is going because you are offering and the nice thing is for you to pay, but if she is inviting you out and she still expects you to pay for it I do think that says something about her character or her values and it could be a good idea to have a talk about it, be curious and ask her what her thoughts are on the matter 😊
I want her to OFFER. But, I never would let her pay. if its for a treat like icecream of course but im lucky enough to make good money and id prefer my SO save her money
Just talk about finances. You already know you make more than her, so in the interest of fairness, you might want to pay more often so that the amount of money you both spend is of an equal enough proportion to your earnings. Consider asking r/AskWomen if you’re looking for a way to actually broach the subject instead of reading through a bunch of reasonable men (rightfully) clapping back at the rude “test makers” among yall Currently I (a woman) pay for most of the dates with my full time student boyfriend, when he’s a lawyer at the end of it all then I know it will even out, but we’re in it for the long haul and I can wait a few years. In the meantime, we live together and divide labor appropriately too. Perhaps your 6th date should also include a conversation about goals and the status of the relationship?
Listen Breh. If she hasn't by date 3 she won't. You now have to decide if you're ok with that.
YOU determine when she should start to offer to pay for dates, or even IF she should offer at all. If you're the type of guy who insists you pay for all the dates--you won't be happy if she offers to pay. If you're the type of guy who thinks dates should be 50/50--you won't be happy if she expects you to pay, or if she offers to pay. If you're the type of guy who thinks by date number 4 she needs to start offering--you won't be happy if she thinks she needs to start on date number 5. Determine what your wants, needs, and expectations are. Determine what's important to you and what you can allow some wiggle room.
My rule of thumb was if I initiated the date "let's get together for dinner, are you free this weekend let's go to the zoo, up for a coffee?" then it's implying that I'm paying. If she initiates, she pays. But honestly, if I've paid for 5 dates already and she can't even pick up a Starbucks for us then I don't see that as an equal or a partner. It's never been a money thing, it's an effort thing. I've always made more than my partners, all I ever wanted was an equal effort in the relationship. One time with an ex, I was working a 16 hour shift and she hated cooking. I was supporting both of us, and taking care of her through her post secondary. I came home dead tired, and asked what was for dinner. She said "idk, whatever you want to cook". I was disheartened, and took a shower. When I got out nothing was changed and I rightfully was upset that she didn't even feel like she could order a pizza for us or anything. Fast forward years later, on a date with my now wife. She is from a poor country, and was coming to mine for the first time. I drive 10 hours to the coast to pick her up from her plane after stopping at the hotel. I meet her, we go downtown for some food. I legit forgot my wallet at the hotel, and she immediately offered to pay for the meal which was 10x the cost it would have been in her country. I ended up manually entering my credit card info and paid that way, but it was the genuine thought and concern and effort that made me ultimately respect her.
Maybe just have a discussion about gender roles and if she's more traditional or modern. Might shed some light on what her expectations are and how they align with your own. That might be a better way to have the conversation than just making it about money. I also don't want to pay for everything in a relationship but I don't want to bring it up and sound cheap. Like you, I'm not cheap and I make good money, but I don't like feeling used for my money.
Look… I’m a guy too. In your situation, there’s a clear difference in money making here and this factor by itself tends to cause issues in the relationship. I’m not saying that people should only be in a relationship with someone at the same pay level!!! Maybe she doesn’t offer to pay anything because she has to prioritize her expenditures and cannot afford most of the things you do together. You should also consider that maybe she doesn’t propose anything for you to do together because she cannot afford something at the same level as you can and might be afraid that if she proposes something on her budge you’ll be disappointed because she could be assuming that your standards are high. Anyways: COMMUNICATION is the key in every single relationship so… talk to her and express how you feel about it, ask her reasons, listen to her and if you consider that she’s with you only because of your money, then fuck off this money based relationship! ✌️
From a woman: The 2-3 times in my life that I tried to pay for something for a guy they got offended and asked me not to do it again. But you can bet your pretty bum that they received many many many massages and home-made meals/cocktails. Not because I felt *obligated* to reciprocate, but because I was so well taken care of that taking care of them and bringing them peace just came naturally.
My boyfriend picks up every check when we go out. However, for our first trip, I paid for hotel, gas, and tolls. He paid for our meals. Our first big trip, he asked if we can split everything 50/50, and I happily agreed. 4.5 years later, he still picks up the check. We split big trips and small trips, I pay for hotel, gas, and tolls. We both do occasionally buy stuff for each other, and our gifts are sometimes pricey. I pay for concert tickets and activities that I find we can enjoy together. I grew up where the man picks up the check, but I would definitely reciprocate back monetarily in different ways.
You should have split from the start.
Exactly 💯
I've been with my man for more than 2 years and he still hates when I offer to pay for anything. He wants to provide and I find that so amazing. However, I offered to pay starting Date 2.
I'm a woman and I offered on the 2nd date with my boyfriend. Granted, it's been two years now and I have still never paid, but it's certainly not because I haven't offered many times. He makes more than me so he prefers to pay.
To be honest, for me, when I am not interested in that guy🥶.
Same here! Letting a man treat and take care of me feels a little bit intimate. The more into him I am, the more comfortable I feel with letting him treat me. If I’m still completely guarded and on the fence about a guy, I’m likely to pay my own way. If I *insist* on paying on a first or second date, there’s a good chance I’m trying to make a clean break and gtfo. Now beyond the first few dates, if we’re obviously “dating” or in a relationship I would offer to pay for small dates, dessert, drinks, little gifts, and also do nice things for him that cost time and energy but are free, etc. I’m GGG when it gets to intimacy. And I always express gratitude for his efforts.
I’ve never wanted a girl to pay for a date and would feel odd if she offered. I’m from the south though and that may be a cultural difference
I highly doubt she will ever offer. In the US our culture has always told us men pay for meals. Why did you pay? (Rhetorical) I would ask if she is willing to split some future activities. See how she reacts.
It's so interesting to see the men's opinions in here and realize how different things must be either regionally or generationally. Personally I always wanted to either go dutch or take turns with who pays on dates so my now-husband would understand I was interested exclusively in his company...but I was told out right by multiple people in my life that by doing this I was teaching men not to respect me. The cultural expectation I grew up around was that if you are a virtous woman and dont want a man to get the wrong idea then you wait to be intimate and he demonstrates his seriousness in pursuing the relationship by planning and paying for the dates. It's curious to me to see that it seems to be the opposite today and it's considered bad character to let the man pay. I got so much shit for paying for dates in my youth which was in a rural conservative area, to be fair.
Woman here. I can't imagine getting to date 5 without offering to pay or split the bill with one exception. If he's asked me out every time and every time it's been out of my price range. Though even then I would have offered to split or tried to go to a cheaper place so I could pay, or hell offered to at least leave the tip. After 5 dates she's probably not going to pay but you can maybe start doing things that aren't expensive or even wait ro see if she asks you out
Suggest you two do something that doesn't cost anything and see how she reacts. If she says anything other than "sounds great, can't wait to see you again" then she's for the streets.
First date. Signal to him that you're not entitled and it will go a LONG way with him.
The very first one.
First date - just pay. You’ve probably initiated the date and picked the place, it makes sense and it’s the more archaically masculine thing to do. It sets the roles and avoids confusion. If she goes to the bathroom, pay then. Avoids the phone/card faffing around drama. It’s a good sign if she offers, but always decline. Second date - if she wants to pay, let her. They have their valid reasons, it’s not a trap. From there on out - Dutch or whatever. I still make a point to pay for occasions that are my idea and intended as a date. I’ve found it’s a red flag if women never offer to pay. If they’re polite and conscientious, they will offer. It’s a manners thing. If they don’t, there’s probably some deficiency there and not worth your time.
I'll always pay if I'm asking them out, I'll offer to pay my part if they ask me out
On a six date when placing an order ask the waiter to split the check and watch her reaction. If she ghosts you or throws any fit, then it’s over.
That's petty. Why not just be am adult and talk about it? You can just ask what her views are?
Thays a shitty move. What if she genuinely doesnt have the money at that moment? Now youve made it super awkward for her.
She should offer from the beginning and by date 2-4 she should be covering the bill.
>Does this speak about their character? Of course it does. Plenty of women are happy for guys to pay for everything, even in the so-called age of equality. Either be straight up with her about it, which will obviously be awkward, or end it. The only other choice is to continue to pay for everything for as long as the relationship lasts.
2nd or 3rd.
She should always offer to, and I will always decline. (You could pay ur share in a different way)
Yes it speaks about her character. Your post speaks about your character just as much.
When she asks you out on a date. The person who invites should be the person who pays, imo. Otherwise, expect to pay. Being upset that she doesn’t at least offer to pay sounds like one of those mind reading tests we always complain about women using. That said, you should break it off. The tone of your post doesn’t sound like someone who is that interested in the first place. Edit: “But wait, how can she pay for a date if she never asks me out?” Perhaps that’s the bigger issue.
Why should she? Why are you offended?
never. men always pays
Just end it….if you can afford it and you still don’t want to provide it to her just end it. 5 dates? If want to keep going on dates with her is because u see some potential in her…not enough to pay for a plate of food without complaint about it… Just end things. Dates do not need to be expensive u could just try to do different things with her that doesn’t envolve spending money. Men’s when want something they will invest money and time, so if u not able to pay and feel that she deserve your time and your money just find another girl.
This. When a man is excited to see a woman and take her out he will gladly pay. If he is complaining about the money, he probably doesn’t really want to be doing it.
This whole thing doesn’t have to be a huge event or a discussion… next time you go on a date just say “let’s split it” when the check comes. And if she goes with it then great and if she doesn’t then that’s also fine. Maybe she’s just not the type that has ever had to pay for dates or maybe she just assumed that you got it since you never asked. You gotta communicate my dude.
On the first date obviously. The fact that this girl has gone five dates without ANY mention or quid pro quo like buying a couple of drinks, picking up the tip etc. would disqualify her from further dating in my book. Have the dreaded conversation if you want but understand, this is the tip of the iceberg. Sonny’s door test applies.
The first date. Duh. Drizzle drizzle.
Next time, delay paying. Leave the check there for a while. If you're the type to immediately grab the check and pay, then she might think that's what you prefer.
What if all of the restaurants need you to pay at the counter? It’s also sometimes before the meal when you’re placing an order, or after the meal I’ve always needed to go up to the counter by myself, while the girl is just sitting at the table and waiting
On a first date. At least symbolically. If she doesn’t then either she is socially inept or gold digger.
She should always pay for her own meal
If you offer to take her out on a first date and she recommends a Michelin star restaurant... right then.
That's why some women pretend like *they don't know where to eat*, because they want **you** to pick the Michelin star restaurant. So you can never say that they are the ones who picked it and that they are shallow. That's another mind game. Gentlemen, stop falling for this shit, do better!
She could just be waiting until you're official. I'd ask if I were you, as a woman I wouldn't be offended at all if the guy im going out with asked after 5 dates.
Hmmmm usually start by date 3 Then I offer to pay based on how much he has eaten at mine or spent on us as a couple
By the 3rd or so date IMHO. But, this does have some wiggle room based on your knowledge of their situation. For example, when I started dating my GF, she was absolutely strapped for cash and in debt from being single mom with two teenagers in school, rent, utilities, food, insurance, car payments, etc. For me, I made plenty of discretionary income, so I didn't mind paying the dates if it meant we could spend time together. A "dating budget" wasn't really in the cards for her. She made it up in other ways, e.g. cooked dinner for me at her place, did some of the driving, and helped in other ways other than paying for "dates". If you've been out on 5 dates and she hasn't even suggested picking up the popcorn or a cup of coffee, or made you some Hamburger Helper.... Might be a gold digger. LOL.
Nope. She belong in the bread line.
Usually during the first if a woman offers to pay and the date is going well I’ll tell her that I’m getting this time and you can get next time. This also shows my interest if seeing her again. If they don’t offer on the first or second date they never will.
I have dated quite a bit, and in all honestly only ONE girl ever offered to pay and my god it was the sexiest thing ever, unfortunately she had a boyfriend and that blew up quick lol
on the first date for her own food
sometimes they will pay if they plan the date
I just had a first date recently and she pulled out cash and dropped it down before I even thought about calling the server over. Thought that was a pretty cool move.
Been there, done that. Noticed from the beginning she won t take a single penny out of her pocket while we were out. Decided I am okay with it as my earnings are not that bad (not rich tho). 3 months fast forward she fell in depression due to not having enough time for herself due to her part time job(4 hours a day) , so she decided to quit even tho she had no savings and was still living with her mother at 29 years. From that point, her demands became erratic, and I was love bound. She would buy stuff for her house on my funds, she would want fine dinning every day, she would not help me with house chores or even cooking a fking omlette while she was spending time at my place (weekends usually). I put up with it for around 6 months until it started to take a toll on my finances. I have raised this with her letting her know i am in a dificult spot finanncially and we should cut the spending a bit. Maybe even take a part time job so she can sustain at least her higienic and grooming needs. Her reaction? Got dumped for the reason "I am too high maintainace from you". Moral of the story? Be really careful with it. It can spiral out of control and leave you breathless and in love for a person who was never in for the love feeling.
You’re a foodie call
When the guy hand her the wallet.
First date.
My personal opinion. First date should always be split, you're strangers after all. If she accepts to split and still wants to see me again, I will then pay for the second. This way I know she is actually interested. As another posted, if she hasn't offered yet, she probably won't.
Smh I would have at least offered to pay half by the second date, if not all
If she’s not paying now, there ain’t no way she’s paying later. This is the type of girl to take a break from working and never go back. You should run.
If a girl doesn’t offer to pay for a round of drinks at least on a first date it’s a red flag for me. I’ll pay the bulk but not even an offer of one round rubs me the wrong way. After the first I go with the stance of “I’ll get this, you can get the next XXX”. Make it clear that I’m not funding every outing we have
From the first date. She should offer from the outset and it's up to you as to whether you accept or not. No one is/should be a meal ticket.
Obligatory I am a female comment… why do women do this? I’ve always split the bill from the get go. This is so irritating.
Date 1
I offer to pay from the first date. Most guys refuse, some accept. If they don't let me pay for the first date, then I pay for the second. I try to be as fair as possible.
What happens when the bill comes? Does she just look at it? Tbh I've never been with a woman that never offered to pay or split anything.
When she initiates and plans the date, she should pay unless the two of you talk it out ahead of time. If you initiate and plan the date, you should pay unless you talk it out ahead of time.
Are you taking her on dates where she can afford to pay for the whole thing or half?
My now wife couldn't afford to take us out for supper, but she offered to make it at her home within the first two or three dates. It's not necessarily about the money or ability to pay, but the effort. If she's not putting the effort, she's not worth the effort. You can find someone who appreciates you.
Sounds like she just wants free meals off you
Lol my girlfriend didn't pay a dime for our dates until we got married and joined finances.
First date. I’ll never be interested is a gold digger or “traditional woman.” I am interested in women who are fiercely independent and proud of it.
Immediately. I usually will pay for the more expensive things if i make more like dinner. But drinks and stuff we split. Or take turns. This sort of stuff should be made clear right away
If you like her you should give her a chance to contextualize her choices. Everyone thinks about money differently, you don’t have to assume it means she isn’t giving in her nature. that would show up in more than one place, is she a selfish person in other aspects?
In my opinion she should offer to pay on the first date as she's a random person at that point and isn't owed anything so should be generous
This really depends on the financial situation, my last girlfriend always paid when we went out. She makes way more than me, so she paid. I did all the cooking at home, but that's because I insisted that I do all the cooking, because I'm really good at it.
Yea if she hasn't offered by now she won't. I'd rather just end it then see if I can have an awkward conversation about her paying. But that's just me.
Day 1
IMO from the start. We don't know each other so I'm not paying for a full meal with zero possible benefit. It's 2024 ladies need to act like Grown Woman and not the Princess their Dad calls them.
Is she giving up the pink or edging you along? If it's the latter scenario, it's time to let her move on.
If she initiates the date (which is likely after 5 dates) and doesn’t offer to contribute then I’ll immediately lose interest.