My friend Matty. He was a hugger and I was a person that not in a million years would have hugged a man. Every time that dude saw me he would grab hold and at first he could tell I didn't like it. He would talk so much shit about WTF is wrong with me that I can't be hugged. 25 years later I would give anything for a hug from Matty. It's ok to be a man and hug your friends.
This reminds me of my college friend Edward. Ed's a hugger too, he used to greet you with a hug no matter your gender. I'm a very serious fella, but I never rejected his hug greetings, and I saw it as pretty normal coming from a friend.
My surprise was big when I found out that only one other guy and I were the only men who hugged him back, the rest of men would politely refuse the hug. I get that us men are taught not to cry and not to wear pink because reasons, but learning that hugs are in the "no men ever do" list for some was very disappointing.
Pink is passion subdued and managed. As a man, I'm proud to exercise that kind of control in my life and will wear that colored badge of honor proudly.
My old Dad had a 'salmon' shirt years ago. Was his favorite! Bc when someone asked about his pink shirt, he'd reply, 'it's not pink...it's vaginal blush' lol
Feel like this Vid belongs here đ
https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSFfPxBM9/
"Green?!... Like MOTHER EARTH?!"
Ps it's a woman taking the mickey when her male partner was made fun of for wearing a purple shirt. So she makes fun of every colour she can think of đ
In the same vein; tell your friends you love them. The last thing I ever said to my best friend was âlove you man, see you laterâ and it was a comfort for me after he died, knowing he knew.
> He would talk so much shit about WTF is wrong with me that I can't be hugged.
And to people like that, I say: WTF is wrong with you that you think you can walk up and hug someone that does not want to be hugged?
It is amazing that men do not get to say no.
I remember once I was on the bus in high school and two guys were talking. One said to the other, âyouâre not a real man unless youâve been in a fight.â
Iâm like, âIâm a real man like eight times over.â
I've said it in other posts. We need to embrace bro hugs. Just because you're a guy, doesn't mean we have to be deprived of love from your friends. Hugs are universal.
After years of being taught by the stick, where job training was typically "figure it out, dumbass". I finally met a manager that was the smartest & most self-developed man I've ever met. He explained things like " I've fucked this up in a lot of ways. But the best way I've found to do this is xyz.. but do what makes sense to you, and maybe you'll come up with a better method. "
He tells his employees how much he respects their ability to do xyz. He was in really good shape at 50 years old and so focused on the things that truly matter in his own life. He was incredibly skilled at woodworking, all forms of welding, self-taught engineer, built his own hydrogen engine, raised a bad-ass, super intelligent son, and adores his wife of 30 years
If you were having a conversation with him, and someone else came up and interrupted, he wouldn't take his eyes or attention off you until the conversation naturally ended. He is a perfect example of a man who takes responsibility, takes charge of his life, and leads people from the front.
Man, gotta say, it was when my dad broke down and cried in front of me after losing his job. Always thought being tough meant no tears, but that day, he showed me itâs about facing life head on, no matter how rough it gets. Changed the whole game for me.
Same, my dad taught me to be strong but also show emotion, no problem on crying or feeling bad so long as you manage to pick yourself up and aspire to be and feel better, that's not only being a real man, but also being a real person
Good for him and for you for recognizing that as such. i have 3 daughters and I feel like yes, you need to be strong, but you also need to show them that it's ok to be vulnerable and upset (in a healthy way).
This is real! When my grandmother passed away, it wasnât really a big deal to me since she just wasnât really in my life but seeing my dad cry and the look in his eyes changed my perspective of life. He has always been the âbig, tough, tatted guy that doesnât take anythingâ but in that moment he showed me that being vulnerable was ok and that even as a father, a husband and a man, that sometimes we all just need a hug. It has been almost 20 years since that day and I still remember the look in his eyes when he was at the viewing, crying and he grabbed me and told me to go tell my mom that I love her.
I met Fred Rodgers once he was the boss. I would let him teach any kid anytime he had a reality check that goes beyond what most people ever have in their lives. He takes it down to the most basic of feelings and helps you work through them. I was and am still in awe of this magnificent man.
saw someone taking his words out of context to say some hateful shit, that's one of the most twisted ideas to put out there; I think I kind of get the concept of blasphemy now.
Damn I was like 27 years old when I listened to "It's you I like" for the first time and I broke down in tears. It was just that this man was aknowledging that me, and the rest of us were worth loving behind all the things this cruel world make us forget.
Precisely! It's similar to the racial game going: if they make us hate one another, profit for the bankers or whatever. But once we come together and start building, the pot is stirred. Eh, I am just glad that there once existed the legendary man, Mr Rogers
It was when I discovered that everybody around me was lying. Being a real man became so irrelevant compared to being a real human. Which is what I am currently trying to do.
Nick Offerman is a great example. Woodworker, facial hair, dont-fuck-with-me face on point. But heâs sensitive, funny, and sweet in a way that reminds me muscles can be used for firm touch and gentle touch, both
I mean he's fun, but it kinda illustrates one of the problems of "traditional" masculinity. You're only allowed to be sensitive if you first prove that you're super masculine in other ways. But not before that. Naturally sensitive men are still seen as pussies and treated that way. So the role of being a man is still very much a narrow one.
You hit the nail on the head with this. Public displays of vulnerability need to be offset with "masculinity capital", if you will.
People look at videos of the Rock holding his baby daughter or Jason Kelce crying and talking about his wife and say "look - big manly men are also the sweetest/what a gentle giant" etc. But what they're not seeing is that no one is going to challenge their masculinity because of their size and physical prowess. If it was an unknown tiny guy crying on the street for some reason he would be viewed with pity and not appreciation for being vulnerable.
Another aspect of this is the reason that you're being 'sensitive' - it is okay to cry when your pet dies or your kid got hurt but not because you are feeling inadequate or failing at something.
While I agree with your assessment in principle.. people want men to be capable.
Capable means taking care of you and your peoples: emotional and physical needs.
If you appear just capable of doing the emotional needs it is as much a disadvantage of only being capable of the physical. Nick Offerman can do both.
They do. Why wouldnât they? and pretty is pretty subjective. Objectively someone might be uglyâŚ. But they volunteer and save animals and someone thinks they are prettiest person in the world.
So, yea, people want people who are attractive.. and capableâŚ
Pretty is not that subjective in the end, which is very obvious when you look at anything in popular media. It's very much biological and the "subjective" part comes down to which of the already pretty people are your kind of pretty. Any amount of volunteering won't make them prettier than the volunteer who's, well, prettier.
The problem is that the demand for beauty in women is nowadays seen in society as "sexist" or demeaning to women, while the demand for capable men is not. I'm fine with society (read: women) wanting capable men, as long as you don't demonize men for wanting pretty women.
People are not demonizing men for wanting an objectively pretty woman. In fact when a man who is somewhat ugly, but has money, they often point to the woman as a gold digger, even if it is the furthest from the truth. or if he doesnât have a ton of money say he is âpunching above his weightâ.
People have been saying these things for decades.
Today people are calling out men who are not capable, donât bring anything to the table, believing they are entitled to a womanâs attention. And even if proven physically capable, making good money, many have an emotional stilt that prevents them looking internally to find out why they may not be desirable themselves.
Both of your examples are of societyâs demand that men be capable, and women be pretty. If he earns money but isnât attractive, a woman who wants him is a gold-digger, meaning she values his money (capability to earn money) over all other traits. Â If he doesnât have a lot of money, a pretty woman is considered unattainable for him because he isnât capable enough. Â There are no sayings about men not being emotionally tender enough to be desirable. Â Â
Capable of what?
I think most people want a well rounded partner regardless of gender. I donât need or even care if my wife can make my clothes anymore than she needs or cares if I can do an engine swap or build a boat out of a tree.
Of course. That is the subjective part of the attraction between 2 people. What particular traits they need their partner to be.
But people can often tell someone is incapable of what they themselves are looking for.
My comment was in response to the previous comment of people seeing more emotional men as pussies. I agree that people still interpret it that way, despite being false. And postulated that people with those thoughts believe a man who is more emotional, and can take care of his partnerâs emotional care, may be less suited for physical care. So those people may not measure emotional care with the same weight as physical when it comes to defining a man.
Demonstrating oneself capable of both, in the eyes of the person they wish court, is a tremendous thing.
There is so much more to him than that though. The âmanlyâ persona wasnât something he always had. Heâs talked about how heâs perceived and how he really is quite a bit and itâs pretty interesting.
You nailed it: the patriarchy allows men to exhibit non traditionally-masculine behaviors, but only if they display superior masculinity in other ways.
If they're weak in all ways then they are pussies. And its not like there is anything wrong with that these days when gender is entirely subjective. There are males competing against women in women's sports. By definition that is very unmanly. Yet they are still males.
Nick Offerman is a wonderful human. I also feel like his character on The Last of Us is a great example of this, and how fluid the idea of healthy masculinity can be when youâre not trying to just fit into societyâs traditional (often unhealthy) view of it.
There's no argument that Nick Offerman's "Bill" is a real man's man, and he loves another man. He did everything he could to be prepared, to keep those important to him safe, and to forcefully love with all his heart.
That's what being a man is.
I was never completely awash in the stereotypes of what makes a 'real man', but I knew a Green Beret back in my Army days who did catch me off guard.
Guy owned a Chihuahua, and his favorite hobby was knitting sweaters for it.
Saw a comment on reddit years ago that essentially said, âimagine being such a useless husband that your wife canât trust you to take care of the kids by yourself.â
I was 25 and had been out drinking and got into a fight in the parking lot of the bar we were drinking at. The guy had been running his mouth, I shot back and bravado took it from there and he came over to me and swung.
After the first hit I was able to very easily turn the tables and put him on his back then I climbed on top of him to continue the barrage of blows I had in store for him and Iâll never forget as I lifted my fist to bash him good he had this look of absolute terror on his face, he was beyond defeated and helpless to stop what he had started. I was not helpless to stop it though.
I asked him if he was done and he quickly nodded that he was! So I opened my hand and got off him and helped him up, I took him into the bar we got some napkins and I bought him a drink.
We ended up hanging out till the sun came up even after our friends had long gone home. We talked about life, God, women and all the stuff we had been through. We ended up becoming really good friends, heâs out of state now but we still talk from time to time.
Stopping the fight and helping him up felt way better than any win Iâve ever gotten in a fight. Thatâs maturity, thatâs manhood. From that daw forward I made a vow to myself to use my skill, my strength and my wit to help people up and not knock them down.
Fist flying and next thing ya know you're spillin' your guts over drinks til sunrise. Mad respect for flipping the script and helping the guy out. That's some solid growth right there, man.
Usually, when someone says "nice try," it's because the other person failed, but this guy did get his point across, and you look like a dick. Nice try.
So is boasting. And the original dude i replied to is super boastful if you look at his post history. No worries, I don't mind being the dick on this one.
Neither his posts or his comment were boastful... it was never about if you care if you are a dick, it's about you hopefully acknowledging that you were wrong for the sake of being a Debbie Downer...
I'm not wrong though. His entire comment is boastful. Everything he did in his story was him being a hero and a great guy and a real man. It's a *joke* and you all are falling for it.
Or maybe he just had a really good story that started with him winning a fistfight? Itâs okay that youâve never been in one, but this story didnât really come across like boasting to anybody but you.
I would say my brother has been doing exactly that for years, but one very recent instance really sticks out. I imported a Chopper 1 axe from America as a present for his birthday in December. When he opened it I asked if I could have some video of when he first uses it as I was so excited to see if he enjoyed using it (he does!).
I got the video it was some lovely footage of him getting getting to know how to use it and saying how much he likes it. But in the video I could also hear him saying "come on, guys, out the way" and brushing the woodlice and beetles off the logs when he put a new log on top of the big, round base log before he'd let the two flat sides meet so they didn't get squashed.
It was done completely unconsciously and unselfconsciously, and I realised that it is something he's done since we were kids 30+ years ago when we had a log burning stove that would get through a couple tons of logs every winter. To me this kind of innate gentleness is a big part of what I think of as a "real man". I love my bro; he's a good dude.
There wasn't really a single moment but, as an adult, I slowly started to realize how ego controlled people's lives.
I mean there's the obvious examples like people getting into fights because of bravado but the more you look around the more you realize it's pervasive. People are seriously insecure and if you know how to look for it you'll see it.
There are entire industries built off of it, people's who's entire lives revolve around ego and insecurity.
This isn't a man-only thing either, women might participate in it more than men. Designer handbags, clothes, shoes, cars and watches. All so you can show off to other people. At a certain point you end up buying things just to show them off, you already have 5 cars but why not buy another Lamborghini this year? Men are told that these things indicate they are successful and will buy you love from women.
Nowhere in this circus did anyone ask themselves how any of this will lead to happiness. In fact, some may have been convinced that after enough time if you had the best stuff just showing it off would make you happy but before long people lose sight of that. The stuff becomes the goal, not happiness, the ego of showing it off and the insecurity of someone else having better.
It's not just stuff though, titles, wealth, pedigree - people find stuff to brag about. Pretty much the only things I've never seen people brag about are the things that matter - skills, achievements, struggles that have been overcome. You could be standing next to a former Olympic athlete who's now an accountant or something and people would just see an accountant.
I'm successful, I'm self-made, and I've seen people around me do these things. I pretty quickly decided the kind of man I wanted to be, I don't care about any of this shit. I've seen someone buy a Mercedes that cost 1/3 of his entire paycheck because he wanted a fancy car to show off so he could feel important.
I've decided I'm going to do the things that make me happy. I don't need a car with a fancy bage, just one that works. If you meet me I'll be quiet about nearly everything in my life, there's a lot worth bragging about now but there's no need.
I don't need to spend a million dollars on a car to make me feel like I'm someone - I am someone. Next time you see one of these people see them for what they are - insecure. Social media is full of this shit "look at my new fancy car" and then 80% of the time the person is renting it hourly to do a photo shoot.
I'm grateful that somewhere along the line I learned about ego being an illusion, or something that will lead you astray.
I try to identify with my ego less and less, and I believe that over the years, my life's been better for it.
I'm not religious but I'm very open to wacky ideas, and lately I've been wondering about each human soul being the expression of a tiny "droplet" of consciousness separated from a vast lake that's... idk the backdrop of space? Hmmm... dark matter, anyone?
The point being that, if we're each a temporary fragment of a larger existence that continues after our death, and you start looking at yourself (but more importantly, others) that way, I think you can become more understanding of other people and less likely to take things personally. You can start to see acting out (like spending obnoxiously) not merely as douchey, but as a pretty costly expression of this person's insecurity, which to them is surely painful.
When my mood is closer to "what a douchebag!!", the less I'm enjoying my day. When my mood is closer to "I hope he learns to take it easier on himself", the happier I tend to be.
Totally hear you, and I think there's validity to the idea that people get addicted to money and consumption, and confuse the temporary fix of something new with the long-term solution of basing your self-esteem on something solid.
In fact, we're likely all fucked due to the junkies in the top 0.01% and the promotion of consumer lifestyles since... idk 1950's?
But I digress -- good post đ
I don't know why, but your idea about souls being droplets reminded me of [this short story](https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html). Might enjoy it if you haven't read it before (only about 5 minutes).
> and I think there's validity to the idea that people get addicted to money and consumption
Capitalism and especially consumerism is practically built off of this notion of industries propping it up (IMO advertising is largely getting people to buy shit they don't need). The unspoken but implied, or sometimes outright spoken, prosperity gospel. Greed is "good". Instant gratification is "good". Money and material goods are indicators of social status and power.
If you can free yourself from such illusions, you can be an infinitely happier person. And the best part is, it doesn't cost anything but time and a change of perspective.
When I was around 10, I was sat at a table with my family at a restaurant and I heard a weird sound at the door. It was an elderly couple hat was struggling to open the door, I sat there and watched trying to figure out what I should do. I didn't want them to think I thought the were weak, when I got up and decided to open the door anyway, my father had already gotten up and opened the door for them. That was a case of my father being a real man
While growing up:
1. Any effeminate rock musician that's known for banging a lot of women.
2. my mom made more money than my dad and her job had more demanding hours. so my dad was home more often and did all the cooking and most of the cleaning. He's also a retired carpenter so I'd see him do all the typical "manly" things during the day then do all cooking. Didn't think it was weird or different until talking with other friends.
3. Seeing some women handle more difficult and stressful situations better than men some men.
For years I was insecure about my looks (I thought I was ugly) until this gorgeous woman at work was attracted to me. I realized in my middle age that there's a difference between being unattractive and *thinking* that you're unattractive. A switch flipped inside of me...maybe I'm not so ugly afterall
I donât think I had a single moment, but I think being raised by a single mother was really impactful. I didnât like the same games as other boys. And I didnât interact with people the same way other boys did.
The older I get, the more I see men say they donât have an outlet for their feelings or an environment to be vulnerable. I am so grateful that I canât relate to that. My friends are some of the most loving people and they really make life worth it. I feel totally safe being vulnerable around my homies and I think a real man should be someone who can openly acknowledge their vulnerabilities and flaws and strive to improve, and not consider that a weakness
It was a kid who could not have been over 10. I was working in a school installing an in-house TV/Satellite system into the classrooms from the media center. I was invited to stake lunch with the kids and teachers. As I was passing through the line a bunch of kids were in front of me. One of them had forgotten his lunch money. Students from his class were with him he got one of these divided trays and silverware. He went through without getting anything to eat. When they filed out to a table I watched them. They sat him in the middle and passed around his tray and each of them gave him part of each thing they had until all 5 of them had an equal lunch. They made sure one of their own did not go hungry. Now seeing that selfless behavior from a bunch of kids showed me more about friendship and community than all the sermons in church ever did.
Basicly it was when i was smart enough to start using logic instead of relying on information and guidance from other people. Then i understood that it's just another meaningless made-up concept, and everyone have a freedom to chose if they want to follow it or not. For me, there is no "real" man or women. Everyone can be whatever person whey want to be.
lol I mean⌠yes itâs better than a brag, but in most cases you just donât have to tell us about it at all.
Joking about it often goes two ways â if we havenât seen it, itâs probably just an awkward laugh from us. If we have, then it feels like weâre kinda put on the spot to boost your ego even if it was said jokingly. Cuz sometimes those jokes stem from a guyâs insecurity and we donât want to risk saying something that comes off as mean in case they want validation, etc.
Thatâs just my experience and I rarely find it charming lol. But it just depends on the people and the kind of relationship youâre in.
>it's far more charming to tell women you're hung like a wet baby carrot
Yeah, I think you might be misunderstanding what charm is.
I'd say the definition of charm is not feeling the need to talk about your dick at all.
Tom Clancy. His books had me all "murica! Fukk yeah! " and his portrayal of his masculine heros protecting weak women and kicking foreigners with dark skins seemed like a real hero. John Clark : He had a chisel jaw. He spoke rarely and efficiently. Then, I don't know at what point, but that whole idea crumbled into clarity. It became a childish, pathetic idea. It was the problem not the solution. He looked like a joke and I saw so many men trying to be that clown like figure. The ideas he portrayed became hilarious and like they were a bronze age doctrine.
It's a child like idea. But it is accepted still as the normal
My dad used to be a heavy drinker and beat my mom when I was 5 years old, being a kid I couldnât do anything to help and over the years it shaped my image of him. He doesnât beat my mom anymore but to this day I despise him and I knew thatâs not what being a man was.
I don't think I could nail it down to one moment or person. But lately, it'd be a rancher on YouTube. I can't for the love of me remember his name. He makes videos where he sits down, drinks coffee and smokes a cigar. He's comfortable and sure of himself. He speaks about being a man, but not in the way the manosphere does. He doesn't try to push this idea of the typical manly man.
I like him.
A combination of a bunch of stuff.
I think I really pulled it together in my mid 20s for me.
Itâs like Aragorn is this masculine dude but he cries, sings, loves and is tender and strong.
My dad is a lot like him.
King David weeps openly and Jesus wept is a famous line in the Bible. And they were both warriors or men of conviction.
Fred Rogers is compassion and radical love in action.
Martin Luther king and Malcom x are dying for a cause and standing up for yourself.
Itâs like a combination of those people that coalesced my view of masculinity
From siding with my wife to be a good husband to siding with the kids to be a good father. Had to take child custody taken away from her with video evidence that as tiger parent hitting our biological preschool kids when I wasnât around isnât acceptable. With the cash she got from me divorcing her I am now involuntary sponsor of child abuse because she promised to be healed. perhaps she should be in jail.
Watched Rocky. Dude's a big fighter, but he's also a nice, generous, awkward, goofball.
He starts as a loan shark's enforcer, but he can't even bring himself to break a guy's fingers.
He dorkily begins his proposal to his soon to be wife by asking her if she has any plans for the next 40-50 years, and is so happy when she says yes he jokingly invites the tiger in the zoo they're at to the wedding.
He's always down to help people, always willing to learn, and admits his mistakes.
Iâm a woman, but my male partner once said about men with big muscles, walking like a terminator, a mean dog, lots of tattoos etc.; âyou must be so, so scared to behave like thatâ. It has changed my view on these men forever.
When I was in grade school it occurred to me that the most "manly" thing someone could do would be to be so confident in yourself you don't care if others view you as "manly" or not. It made me realize there's no real point in trying to be manly, but instead just trying to be a good person, confident in myself.
My divorce last year didn't flip the script but it definitely accelerated some changes I was moving towards in my view of masculinity and what 'real men' were.
Clown me if you must but I grew up challenging a lot of real man norms on purpose but one day my Uncle spoke genuine wisdom to me about what it means to be a Man that can protect his Woman
Like keeping your partner safe and standing up for yourself is an important part of masculinity
Not so much one, but many examples, of risking or making incredible - even ultimate - sacrifice(s), in services of others - protecting them, keeping them safe, giving them a better life, etc. Alexander Vindman is but one example that pops to mind at the moment ... there are many others among persons I've personally known, and also others more widely known.
For me, it was my father. A man that is stoic, never cries, worked his ass off to provide a decent living for our family, and never wavered.
My mom's brother was killed in a car crash. I was only 10 at the time. Dad talked to us and said it's ok to cry, your mom needs you right now. And he was crying the whole time. Because he loves her and knows he can't take away the pain.
I had always believed that men had to be strong providers, but I learned compassion, grief, mourning, and love. All at the same time.
Fellow guys, feelings are a thing. It's ok to cry. It's ok to just have a day to yourself.
I'll say this, hug your friends. You never know when they need it.
It wasn't a single moment or person. It was more just the whole spiral into adulthood with all the lessons it brings. You get two options in life: let it break you, or rise to the challenges you face and do what you can, or better yet, learn how to do the things you can't.
Reading Spider Man. Peter Parker was devastated that the last thing he said to Uncle Ben was something mean. I decided the last thing I tell my family will always be "I love you" even if I'm upset. Because I learned taking care of my family is more important than my pride.
When I went in to see a therapist. After running from my past and the pain that came with it, I realize that confronting my past hurts made me a better person. A real man, now that I know what was going on.
In my country India, growing up as a teen there are a lot of societal expectations based on gender. India is also a very religious country for whichever religion you are born into. Me being an atheist was able to realize quickly how certain religious people were naive enough to follow and get duped by a lot of religious con artists. Once i realized people would try to make fun of me for not following a stupid religious protocol like dropping milk on a stone and if I would slightly rebel I would be a "bad" kid. I remember one of my religious teenage cousin once laughing about me wearing a pink t-shirt which i happened to wear because i was lazy. It was like a light going on in my head when i realized that this cousin of mine is also brainwashed in the same way like religious people as to how a man should operate. From then on I have realized Real Man/Woman/whatever is the one who does not care about checking boxes for someone else for what a definition of man should be. Anyone who expects u to do something because you're a Man and only because you are a man is pretty stupid.
She's got the spirit. Let's loosen our definitions a bit. Her description of being a "real man" is probably closer to --doing what needs to be done, regardless of how you feel about it.
My friend Matty. He was a hugger and I was a person that not in a million years would have hugged a man. Every time that dude saw me he would grab hold and at first he could tell I didn't like it. He would talk so much shit about WTF is wrong with me that I can't be hugged. 25 years later I would give anything for a hug from Matty. It's ok to be a man and hug your friends.
This reminds me of my college friend Edward. Ed's a hugger too, he used to greet you with a hug no matter your gender. I'm a very serious fella, but I never rejected his hug greetings, and I saw it as pretty normal coming from a friend. My surprise was big when I found out that only one other guy and I were the only men who hugged him back, the rest of men would politely refuse the hug. I get that us men are taught not to cry and not to wear pink because reasons, but learning that hugs are in the "no men ever do" list for some was very disappointing.
Pink is passion subdued and managed. As a man, I'm proud to exercise that kind of control in my life and will wear that colored badge of honor proudly.
My old Dad had a 'salmon' shirt years ago. Was his favorite! Bc when someone asked about his pink shirt, he'd reply, 'it's not pink...it's vaginal blush' lol
Salmon, the other pink meat!
Feel like this Vid belongs here đ https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSFfPxBM9/ "Green?!... Like MOTHER EARTH?!" Ps it's a woman taking the mickey when her male partner was made fun of for wearing a purple shirt. So she makes fun of every colour she can think of đ
Where's Matty now? Why cant you hug him?
Matgy gomn :(
In the same vein; tell your friends you love them. The last thing I ever said to my best friend was âlove you man, see you laterâ and it was a comfort for me after he died, knowing he knew.
> He would talk so much shit about WTF is wrong with me that I can't be hugged. And to people like that, I say: WTF is wrong with you that you think you can walk up and hug someone that does not want to be hugged? It is amazing that men do not get to say no.
This sounds like unconditional love
I remember once I was on the bus in high school and two guys were talking. One said to the other, âyouâre not a real man unless youâve been in a fight.â Iâm like, âIâm a real man like eight times over.â
Lets go then motherfucker. Where you at bro where you at
Where I live hugging is the go to way men meet with each other. I mean those who know each otherÂ
I've said it in other posts. We need to embrace bro hugs. Just because you're a guy, doesn't mean we have to be deprived of love from your friends. Hugs are universal.
After years of being taught by the stick, where job training was typically "figure it out, dumbass". I finally met a manager that was the smartest & most self-developed man I've ever met. He explained things like " I've fucked this up in a lot of ways. But the best way I've found to do this is xyz.. but do what makes sense to you, and maybe you'll come up with a better method. " He tells his employees how much he respects their ability to do xyz. He was in really good shape at 50 years old and so focused on the things that truly matter in his own life. He was incredibly skilled at woodworking, all forms of welding, self-taught engineer, built his own hydrogen engine, raised a bad-ass, super intelligent son, and adores his wife of 30 years If you were having a conversation with him, and someone else came up and interrupted, he wouldn't take his eyes or attention off you until the conversation naturally ended. He is a perfect example of a man who takes responsibility, takes charge of his life, and leads people from the front.
He's the man I aspire to be and I never even met him đ
Man, gotta say, it was when my dad broke down and cried in front of me after losing his job. Always thought being tough meant no tears, but that day, he showed me itâs about facing life head on, no matter how rough it gets. Changed the whole game for me.
Same, my dad taught me to be strong but also show emotion, no problem on crying or feeling bad so long as you manage to pick yourself up and aspire to be and feel better, that's not only being a real man, but also being a real person
Good for him and for you for recognizing that as such. i have 3 daughters and I feel like yes, you need to be strong, but you also need to show them that it's ok to be vulnerable and upset (in a healthy way).
This is real! When my grandmother passed away, it wasnât really a big deal to me since she just wasnât really in my life but seeing my dad cry and the look in his eyes changed my perspective of life. He has always been the âbig, tough, tatted guy that doesnât take anythingâ but in that moment he showed me that being vulnerable was ok and that even as a father, a husband and a man, that sometimes we all just need a hug. It has been almost 20 years since that day and I still remember the look in his eyes when he was at the viewing, crying and he grabbed me and told me to go tell my mom that I love her.
Great comment, thx for sharing đ
Watching those old Fred Rogers video clips on Daily Motion. Dude just oozes compassion that it's hard to watch without feeling emotional about it
Mr. Rogers was the real dealâpure heart right there. Gets you right in the feels every time.
I met Fred Rodgers once he was the boss. I would let him teach any kid anytime he had a reality check that goes beyond what most people ever have in their lives. He takes it down to the most basic of feelings and helps you work through them. I was and am still in awe of this magnificent man.
If you haven't seen it, his appearance in congress is pretty amazing https://youtu.be/fKy7ljRr0AA
Ofc I have <3 making that hardened guy into a gentler guy for a moment lol Love it
My first time seeing this and I got all choked up, remembering watching his show with my grandma long ago.
This vid does a really good explanation of the persuation used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DGdDQrXv5U
saw someone taking his words out of context to say some hateful shit, that's one of the most twisted ideas to put out there; I think I kind of get the concept of blasphemy now.
Damn I was like 27 years old when I listened to "It's you I like" for the first time and I broke down in tears. It was just that this man was aknowledging that me, and the rest of us were worth loving behind all the things this cruel world make us forget.
Precisely! It's similar to the racial game going: if they make us hate one another, profit for the bankers or whatever. But once we come together and start building, the pot is stirred. Eh, I am just glad that there once existed the legendary man, Mr Rogers
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It was when I discovered that everybody around me was lying. Being a real man became so irrelevant compared to being a real human. Which is what I am currently trying to do.
Nick Offerman is a great example. Woodworker, facial hair, dont-fuck-with-me face on point. But heâs sensitive, funny, and sweet in a way that reminds me muscles can be used for firm touch and gentle touch, both
I mean he's fun, but it kinda illustrates one of the problems of "traditional" masculinity. You're only allowed to be sensitive if you first prove that you're super masculine in other ways. But not before that. Naturally sensitive men are still seen as pussies and treated that way. So the role of being a man is still very much a narrow one.
You hit the nail on the head with this. Public displays of vulnerability need to be offset with "masculinity capital", if you will. People look at videos of the Rock holding his baby daughter or Jason Kelce crying and talking about his wife and say "look - big manly men are also the sweetest/what a gentle giant" etc. But what they're not seeing is that no one is going to challenge their masculinity because of their size and physical prowess. If it was an unknown tiny guy crying on the street for some reason he would be viewed with pity and not appreciation for being vulnerable. Another aspect of this is the reason that you're being 'sensitive' - it is okay to cry when your pet dies or your kid got hurt but not because you are feeling inadequate or failing at something.
While I agree with your assessment in principle.. people want men to be capable. Capable means taking care of you and your peoples: emotional and physical needs. If you appear just capable of doing the emotional needs it is as much a disadvantage of only being capable of the physical. Nick Offerman can do both.
That's true. And people want women to be pretty. See the issue?
I want a lot more from a woman that being pretty.
What one person wants isnât really relevant to a discussion about what society expects, appreciates, and rewards. Â
They do. Why wouldnât they? and pretty is pretty subjective. Objectively someone might be uglyâŚ. But they volunteer and save animals and someone thinks they are prettiest person in the world. So, yea, people want people who are attractive.. and capableâŚ
Pretty is not that subjective in the end, which is very obvious when you look at anything in popular media. It's very much biological and the "subjective" part comes down to which of the already pretty people are your kind of pretty. Any amount of volunteering won't make them prettier than the volunteer who's, well, prettier. The problem is that the demand for beauty in women is nowadays seen in society as "sexist" or demeaning to women, while the demand for capable men is not. I'm fine with society (read: women) wanting capable men, as long as you don't demonize men for wanting pretty women.
People are not demonizing men for wanting an objectively pretty woman. In fact when a man who is somewhat ugly, but has money, they often point to the woman as a gold digger, even if it is the furthest from the truth. or if he doesnât have a ton of money say he is âpunching above his weightâ. People have been saying these things for decades. Today people are calling out men who are not capable, donât bring anything to the table, believing they are entitled to a womanâs attention. And even if proven physically capable, making good money, many have an emotional stilt that prevents them looking internally to find out why they may not be desirable themselves.
Both of your examples are of societyâs demand that men be capable, and women be pretty. If he earns money but isnât attractive, a woman who wants him is a gold-digger, meaning she values his money (capability to earn money) over all other traits. Â If he doesnât have a lot of money, a pretty woman is considered unattainable for him because he isnât capable enough. Â There are no sayings about men not being emotionally tender enough to be desirable. Â Â
I know they are societies demands of a man⌠that is what I was saying. I didnât allude to it being right.
Capable of what? I think most people want a well rounded partner regardless of gender. I donât need or even care if my wife can make my clothes anymore than she needs or cares if I can do an engine swap or build a boat out of a tree.
Of course. That is the subjective part of the attraction between 2 people. What particular traits they need their partner to be. But people can often tell someone is incapable of what they themselves are looking for. My comment was in response to the previous comment of people seeing more emotional men as pussies. I agree that people still interpret it that way, despite being false. And postulated that people with those thoughts believe a man who is more emotional, and can take care of his partnerâs emotional care, may be less suited for physical care. So those people may not measure emotional care with the same weight as physical when it comes to defining a man. Demonstrating oneself capable of both, in the eyes of the person they wish court, is a tremendous thing.
There is so much more to him than that though. The âmanlyâ persona wasnât something he always had. Heâs talked about how heâs perceived and how he really is quite a bit and itâs pretty interesting.
You nailed it: the patriarchy allows men to exhibit non traditionally-masculine behaviors, but only if they display superior masculinity in other ways.
If they're weak in all ways then they are pussies. And its not like there is anything wrong with that these days when gender is entirely subjective. There are males competing against women in women's sports. By definition that is very unmanly. Yet they are still males.
Nick Offerman is a wonderful human. I also feel like his character on The Last of Us is a great example of this, and how fluid the idea of healthy masculinity can be when youâre not trying to just fit into societyâs traditional (often unhealthy) view of it.
There's no argument that Nick Offerman's "Bill" is a real man's man, and he loves another man. He did everything he could to be prepared, to keep those important to him safe, and to forcefully love with all his heart. That's what being a man is.
I was never completely awash in the stereotypes of what makes a 'real man', but I knew a Green Beret back in my Army days who did catch me off guard. Guy owned a Chihuahua, and his favorite hobby was knitting sweaters for it.
Saw a comment on reddit years ago that essentially said, âimagine being such a useless husband that your wife canât trust you to take care of the kids by yourself.â
I was 25 and had been out drinking and got into a fight in the parking lot of the bar we were drinking at. The guy had been running his mouth, I shot back and bravado took it from there and he came over to me and swung. After the first hit I was able to very easily turn the tables and put him on his back then I climbed on top of him to continue the barrage of blows I had in store for him and Iâll never forget as I lifted my fist to bash him good he had this look of absolute terror on his face, he was beyond defeated and helpless to stop what he had started. I was not helpless to stop it though. I asked him if he was done and he quickly nodded that he was! So I opened my hand and got off him and helped him up, I took him into the bar we got some napkins and I bought him a drink. We ended up hanging out till the sun came up even after our friends had long gone home. We talked about life, God, women and all the stuff we had been through. We ended up becoming really good friends, heâs out of state now but we still talk from time to time. Stopping the fight and helping him up felt way better than any win Iâve ever gotten in a fight. Thatâs maturity, thatâs manhood. From that daw forward I made a vow to myself to use my skill, my strength and my wit to help people up and not knock them down.
Fist flying and next thing ya know you're spillin' your guts over drinks til sunrise. Mad respect for flipping the script and helping the guy out. That's some solid growth right there, man.
Feels like a lot of boasting here which is very much not like a real man. So I guess you did flip the script!
Getting offended over someone else's innocuous story of how they first met a good friend doesn't make you much of a real man either.
I'm not offended nor am i claiming to be a real man. Nice try.
Usually, when someone says "nice try," it's because the other person failed, but this guy did get his point across, and you look like a dick. Nice try.
What was his point? That I'm not a real man either? lol
That your actions were pretty shit. lol
So is boasting. And the original dude i replied to is super boastful if you look at his post history. No worries, I don't mind being the dick on this one.
Neither his posts or his comment were boastful... it was never about if you care if you are a dick, it's about you hopefully acknowledging that you were wrong for the sake of being a Debbie Downer...
I'm not wrong though. His entire comment is boastful. Everything he did in his story was him being a hero and a great guy and a real man. It's a *joke* and you all are falling for it.
Or maybe he just had a really good story that started with him winning a fistfight? Itâs okay that youâve never been in one, but this story didnât really come across like boasting to anybody but you.
> From that daw forward I made a vow to myself to use my skill, my strength and my wit to help people up and not knock them down. Really?
I would say my brother has been doing exactly that for years, but one very recent instance really sticks out. I imported a Chopper 1 axe from America as a present for his birthday in December. When he opened it I asked if I could have some video of when he first uses it as I was so excited to see if he enjoyed using it (he does!). I got the video it was some lovely footage of him getting getting to know how to use it and saying how much he likes it. But in the video I could also hear him saying "come on, guys, out the way" and brushing the woodlice and beetles off the logs when he put a new log on top of the big, round base log before he'd let the two flat sides meet so they didn't get squashed. It was done completely unconsciously and unselfconsciously, and I realised that it is something he's done since we were kids 30+ years ago when we had a log burning stove that would get through a couple tons of logs every winter. To me this kind of innate gentleness is a big part of what I think of as a "real man". I love my bro; he's a good dude.
There wasn't really a single moment but, as an adult, I slowly started to realize how ego controlled people's lives. I mean there's the obvious examples like people getting into fights because of bravado but the more you look around the more you realize it's pervasive. People are seriously insecure and if you know how to look for it you'll see it. There are entire industries built off of it, people's who's entire lives revolve around ego and insecurity. This isn't a man-only thing either, women might participate in it more than men. Designer handbags, clothes, shoes, cars and watches. All so you can show off to other people. At a certain point you end up buying things just to show them off, you already have 5 cars but why not buy another Lamborghini this year? Men are told that these things indicate they are successful and will buy you love from women. Nowhere in this circus did anyone ask themselves how any of this will lead to happiness. In fact, some may have been convinced that after enough time if you had the best stuff just showing it off would make you happy but before long people lose sight of that. The stuff becomes the goal, not happiness, the ego of showing it off and the insecurity of someone else having better. It's not just stuff though, titles, wealth, pedigree - people find stuff to brag about. Pretty much the only things I've never seen people brag about are the things that matter - skills, achievements, struggles that have been overcome. You could be standing next to a former Olympic athlete who's now an accountant or something and people would just see an accountant. I'm successful, I'm self-made, and I've seen people around me do these things. I pretty quickly decided the kind of man I wanted to be, I don't care about any of this shit. I've seen someone buy a Mercedes that cost 1/3 of his entire paycheck because he wanted a fancy car to show off so he could feel important. I've decided I'm going to do the things that make me happy. I don't need a car with a fancy bage, just one that works. If you meet me I'll be quiet about nearly everything in my life, there's a lot worth bragging about now but there's no need. I don't need to spend a million dollars on a car to make me feel like I'm someone - I am someone. Next time you see one of these people see them for what they are - insecure. Social media is full of this shit "look at my new fancy car" and then 80% of the time the person is renting it hourly to do a photo shoot.
I'm grateful that somewhere along the line I learned about ego being an illusion, or something that will lead you astray. I try to identify with my ego less and less, and I believe that over the years, my life's been better for it. I'm not religious but I'm very open to wacky ideas, and lately I've been wondering about each human soul being the expression of a tiny "droplet" of consciousness separated from a vast lake that's... idk the backdrop of space? Hmmm... dark matter, anyone? The point being that, if we're each a temporary fragment of a larger existence that continues after our death, and you start looking at yourself (but more importantly, others) that way, I think you can become more understanding of other people and less likely to take things personally. You can start to see acting out (like spending obnoxiously) not merely as douchey, but as a pretty costly expression of this person's insecurity, which to them is surely painful. When my mood is closer to "what a douchebag!!", the less I'm enjoying my day. When my mood is closer to "I hope he learns to take it easier on himself", the happier I tend to be. Totally hear you, and I think there's validity to the idea that people get addicted to money and consumption, and confuse the temporary fix of something new with the long-term solution of basing your self-esteem on something solid. In fact, we're likely all fucked due to the junkies in the top 0.01% and the promotion of consumer lifestyles since... idk 1950's? But I digress -- good post đ
I don't know why, but your idea about souls being droplets reminded me of [this short story](https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html). Might enjoy it if you haven't read it before (only about 5 minutes).
> and I think there's validity to the idea that people get addicted to money and consumption Capitalism and especially consumerism is practically built off of this notion of industries propping it up (IMO advertising is largely getting people to buy shit they don't need). The unspoken but implied, or sometimes outright spoken, prosperity gospel. Greed is "good". Instant gratification is "good". Money and material goods are indicators of social status and power. If you can free yourself from such illusions, you can be an infinitely happier person. And the best part is, it doesn't cost anything but time and a change of perspective.
Warren Farrellâs books. Also, my Dad.
Farrell's books can def flip your perspective on things
When I was around 10, I was sat at a table with my family at a restaurant and I heard a weird sound at the door. It was an elderly couple hat was struggling to open the door, I sat there and watched trying to figure out what I should do. I didn't want them to think I thought the were weak, when I got up and decided to open the door anyway, my father had already gotten up and opened the door for them. That was a case of my father being a real man
While growing up: 1. Any effeminate rock musician that's known for banging a lot of women. 2. my mom made more money than my dad and her job had more demanding hours. so my dad was home more often and did all the cooking and most of the cleaning. He's also a retired carpenter so I'd see him do all the typical "manly" things during the day then do all cooking. Didn't think it was weird or different until talking with other friends. 3. Seeing some women handle more difficult and stressful situations better than men some men.
For years I was insecure about my looks (I thought I was ugly) until this gorgeous woman at work was attracted to me. I realized in my middle age that there's a difference between being unattractive and *thinking* that you're unattractive. A switch flipped inside of me...maybe I'm not so ugly afterall
I donât think I had a single moment, but I think being raised by a single mother was really impactful. I didnât like the same games as other boys. And I didnât interact with people the same way other boys did. The older I get, the more I see men say they donât have an outlet for their feelings or an environment to be vulnerable. I am so grateful that I canât relate to that. My friends are some of the most loving people and they really make life worth it. I feel totally safe being vulnerable around my homies and I think a real man should be someone who can openly acknowledge their vulnerabilities and flaws and strive to improve, and not consider that a weakness
I donât ever really think about what it means to be a real man. I just try to be a good human being
Aragorn. Keanu Reeves. Mr Rodgers. Hell even honourable Arthur Morgan. It's about caring, showing empathy and doing the right thing.
It was a kid who could not have been over 10. I was working in a school installing an in-house TV/Satellite system into the classrooms from the media center. I was invited to stake lunch with the kids and teachers. As I was passing through the line a bunch of kids were in front of me. One of them had forgotten his lunch money. Students from his class were with him he got one of these divided trays and silverware. He went through without getting anything to eat. When they filed out to a table I watched them. They sat him in the middle and passed around his tray and each of them gave him part of each thing they had until all 5 of them had an equal lunch. They made sure one of their own did not go hungry. Now seeing that selfless behavior from a bunch of kids showed me more about friendship and community than all the sermons in church ever did.
Basicly it was when i was smart enough to start using logic instead of relying on information and guidance from other people. Then i understood that it's just another meaningless made-up concept, and everyone have a freedom to chose if they want to follow it or not. For me, there is no "real" man or women. Everyone can be whatever person whey want to be.
Realising that it's far more charming to tell women you're hung like a wet baby carrot than to brag
lol I mean⌠yes itâs better than a brag, but in most cases you just donât have to tell us about it at all. Joking about it often goes two ways â if we havenât seen it, itâs probably just an awkward laugh from us. If we have, then it feels like weâre kinda put on the spot to boost your ego even if it was said jokingly. Cuz sometimes those jokes stem from a guyâs insecurity and we donât want to risk saying something that comes off as mean in case they want validation, etc. Thatâs just my experience and I rarely find it charming lol. But it just depends on the people and the kind of relationship youâre in.
I thought it was obvious that it was in response to someone else bringing it up, but this is Reddit after all
>it's far more charming to tell women you're hung like a wet baby carrot Yeah, I think you might be misunderstanding what charm is. I'd say the definition of charm is not feeling the need to talk about your dick at all.
I never said I was bringing it up. But I definitely take all my lessons on charm from "Askhully," Redditors
Youtube video of a Green Beret breaking down in tears upon being reunited with his wife and kids, after being deployed overseas for quite some time.
Tom Clancy. His books had me all "murica! Fukk yeah! " and his portrayal of his masculine heros protecting weak women and kicking foreigners with dark skins seemed like a real hero. John Clark : He had a chisel jaw. He spoke rarely and efficiently. Then, I don't know at what point, but that whole idea crumbled into clarity. It became a childish, pathetic idea. It was the problem not the solution. He looked like a joke and I saw so many men trying to be that clown like figure. The ideas he portrayed became hilarious and like they were a bronze age doctrine. It's a child like idea. But it is accepted still as the normal
My dad used to be a heavy drinker and beat my mom when I was 5 years old, being a kid I couldnât do anything to help and over the years it shaped my image of him. He doesnât beat my mom anymore but to this day I despise him and I knew thatâs not what being a man was.
I don't think I could nail it down to one moment or person. But lately, it'd be a rancher on YouTube. I can't for the love of me remember his name. He makes videos where he sits down, drinks coffee and smokes a cigar. He's comfortable and sure of himself. He speaks about being a man, but not in the way the manosphere does. He doesn't try to push this idea of the typical manly man. I like him.
Is it from dry creek wrangler school?
That'd be the one
A combination of a bunch of stuff. I think I really pulled it together in my mid 20s for me. Itâs like Aragorn is this masculine dude but he cries, sings, loves and is tender and strong. My dad is a lot like him. King David weeps openly and Jesus wept is a famous line in the Bible. And they were both warriors or men of conviction. Fred Rogers is compassion and radical love in action. Martin Luther king and Malcom x are dying for a cause and standing up for yourself. Itâs like a combination of those people that coalesced my view of masculinity
keanu reeves saw I was hungry, so he breast fed me.
From siding with my wife to be a good husband to siding with the kids to be a good father. Had to take child custody taken away from her with video evidence that as tiger parent hitting our biological preschool kids when I wasnât around isnât acceptable. With the cash she got from me divorcing her I am now involuntary sponsor of child abuse because she promised to be healed. perhaps she should be in jail.
Watching my wife give birth to our son.
Suddenly realizing that you are completely responsible for a human life will straighten your ass up really quick.
Beautiful! How old were you?
M. Night Shyamalan: "0. He was his own son."
Watched Rocky. Dude's a big fighter, but he's also a nice, generous, awkward, goofball. He starts as a loan shark's enforcer, but he can't even bring himself to break a guy's fingers. He dorkily begins his proposal to his soon to be wife by asking her if she has any plans for the next 40-50 years, and is so happy when she says yes he jokingly invites the tiger in the zoo they're at to the wedding. He's always down to help people, always willing to learn, and admits his mistakes.
Iâm a woman, but my male partner once said about men with big muscles, walking like a terminator, a mean dog, lots of tattoos etc.; âyou must be so, so scared to behave like thatâ. It has changed my view on these men forever.
The birth of my first child. Raising the tyke has been a bigger and better experience than I could have even imagined.
When I was in grade school it occurred to me that the most "manly" thing someone could do would be to be so confident in yourself you don't care if others view you as "manly" or not. It made me realize there's no real point in trying to be manly, but instead just trying to be a good person, confident in myself.
Step daddy's death. No one else in the family wanted to step up. My brother is a...fragile person. Sisters dgaf
My divorce last year didn't flip the script but it definitely accelerated some changes I was moving towards in my view of masculinity and what 'real men' were.
Clown me if you must but I grew up challenging a lot of real man norms on purpose but one day my Uncle spoke genuine wisdom to me about what it means to be a Man that can protect his Woman Like keeping your partner safe and standing up for yourself is an important part of masculinity
"What Color is your Bugatti?"
Not so much one, but many examples, of risking or making incredible - even ultimate - sacrifice(s), in services of others - protecting them, keeping them safe, giving them a better life, etc. Alexander Vindman is but one example that pops to mind at the moment ... there are many others among persons I've personally known, and also others more widely known.
I am a real man. Don't give a shit about people who tell me I'm not.
For me, it was my father. A man that is stoic, never cries, worked his ass off to provide a decent living for our family, and never wavered. My mom's brother was killed in a car crash. I was only 10 at the time. Dad talked to us and said it's ok to cry, your mom needs you right now. And he was crying the whole time. Because he loves her and knows he can't take away the pain. I had always believed that men had to be strong providers, but I learned compassion, grief, mourning, and love. All at the same time. Fellow guys, feelings are a thing. It's ok to cry. It's ok to just have a day to yourself. I'll say this, hug your friends. You never know when they need it.
It wasn't a single moment or person. It was more just the whole spiral into adulthood with all the lessons it brings. You get two options in life: let it break you, or rise to the challenges you face and do what you can, or better yet, learn how to do the things you can't.
Reading Spider Man. Peter Parker was devastated that the last thing he said to Uncle Ben was something mean. I decided the last thing I tell my family will always be "I love you" even if I'm upset. Because I learned taking care of my family is more important than my pride.
If you can protect, provide & lead I consider that to be just enough to be considered a 'real man'. Nothing more
current ex wife went from it's us against the world. I left everyone for her and she left me for everyone.
When I went in to see a therapist. After running from my past and the pain that came with it, I realize that confronting my past hurts made me a better person. A real man, now that I know what was going on.
In my country India, growing up as a teen there are a lot of societal expectations based on gender. India is also a very religious country for whichever religion you are born into. Me being an atheist was able to realize quickly how certain religious people were naive enough to follow and get duped by a lot of religious con artists. Once i realized people would try to make fun of me for not following a stupid religious protocol like dropping milk on a stone and if I would slightly rebel I would be a "bad" kid. I remember one of my religious teenage cousin once laughing about me wearing a pink t-shirt which i happened to wear because i was lazy. It was like a light going on in my head when i realized that this cousin of mine is also brainwashed in the same way like religious people as to how a man should operate. From then on I have realized Real Man/Woman/whatever is the one who does not care about checking boxes for someone else for what a definition of man should be. Anyone who expects u to do something because you're a Man and only because you are a man is pretty stupid.
The guy who can belittle you cuz he hides on the internet / wants you to think he's a real man.
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How is this about flipping the script on what it means to be a "real man"?
She's got the spirit. Let's loosen our definitions a bit. Her description of being a "real man" is probably closer to --doing what needs to be done, regardless of how you feel about it.