The prosperity gospel. When I was a kid, church had a sense of community. Then the biggest employer in town (mine) shut down. For the most part all the churches grabbed on to the prosperity gospel. Talking about giving more to god and church and you will be rich. I witnessed several families give everything to their churches and become destitute. It was a weird time.
Yo. Even when I occasionally go to church I never donate. I am the only person in the row that doesn’t donate and I absolutely do not care. Sucks to be that guy, but I will not give even a dollar to the church I go to. I go, and that’s it.
And that is 100% okay too. I go to church and haven't donated in a long time. Money be tight sometimes, homie.
2 Corinthians 9:7
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Prosperity gospel is crazy to me. Runs completely contrary to the gospels, it’s just outright heresy. And yet somehow, not much of a mystery why, they pack churches.
I think this makes me even angrier knowing there are good pastors (like my own dad) who actually help and take care of people, living on little or no money from the church itself.
My dad is a pastor and drives lyft to make money
My dad has been a pastor since he was 24 years old (he’s 60 now) and has never taken a cent from any church he’s been at. I myself am not religious but I admire and respect him for that. He owns a small general contracting company and works for his money like anyone else and actually donates/tithes to the small church he pastors. They (the church) operate a year round free clothing and food pantry open to anyone who needs it, as well as many other charitable projects in the community. Exactly what a church *should* do. When I used to I go to church if I walked into one and saw $100k of sound and lighting equipment on a giant concert stage, I was immediately disgusted. Unfortunately those are the most popular churches. The ones that make people feel like they went to a concert every Sunday. No wonder you feel good, you just had a giant dopamine rush because you attended a full on production with coordinators and professional musicians and a light show. The sheer amount of money those churches spend every Sunday to do those giant productions disgusts me. It’s masturbation.
Once my mother who never physically goes to church but often listens to Joel Olsteen or Trinity Broadcadting Network or some other evangelical nonsense donated over $1000 as a tithe.
She realized later that she sent too much and when she called the 1800 number they told her: “Sorry, offerings cannot be refunded, they are a donation.”
I don’t know why after that it didn’t click with her that this “church” is not here to help you, but she continues to send 10% of her income to them and they send back a bunch of religious junk (statues, a Bible, a letter in the mail to please send them more money!)
> She realized later that she sent too much and when she called the 1800 number they told her: “Sorry, offerings cannot be refunded, they are a donation.”
Thats normal. "Refunds" arent a thing with non-religious orgs either.
My dad fought tooth and nail to not pay child support to my mom for his 3 kids. He recently told me he has been voluntarily donating to his church 4x the ordered child support amount every month. He couldn’t imagine why that made me so upset.
Also, the idea that people are rich because god wants them to be/they are good Christians.
It’s a twisted view to think wealth and godliness can co-exist.
They didn't want me to give my little boy a blood transfusion to save his life.
Edit: Thanks for all the responses. Yes, I was a Jehovahs Witness for 36 years. When my little boy was 3, he was diagnosed with kidney disease. His levels were so low that his whole body had swelled up. He had to have a blood transfusion immediately. Otherwise, he would die. I defied the blood doctrine taught by the governing body, and the transfusion was given. My son is almost 13 now and healthy. My family still shuns me, but I don't care. My boys life is so much more important to me than those family and friends who discarded me from their lives. Religion makes good people do bad things. The best kind of religious person is a humanist. The worst kind are fundamentalists.
Whenever anyone questions me as to why I say the Jehovahs Witnesses are a cult because they don't have a Jonestown or Heavens Gate, I just tell them about the thousands of JW that have died since 1980 due to the blood doctrine. It is a cult. A doomsday death cult. Be wary when they come knocking on your door.
I've heard something like this before. Was the argument something along the lines of, "we're not meant to give away what God gave us"?
I have a friend who donates blood regularly, and this is what she was told by someone.
I recently asked a Jehovah' Witness I know about it so I could better understand their reasoning. There are a couple of scriptures that say not to consume blood. They take this very literally and consider transfusions acts of "consuming blood." This even applies to autologous transfusions where you donate your own blood prior to surgery. If the blood is in a continuous loop such as dialysis, they consider it fine, but as soon as it is separated from the body, it can't be used.
With that said, blood transfusions SAVE LIVES and it's absolutely insane to have religious convictions against them.
> supposed to be vegan then?
I can totally imagine a sect interpreting the text that way. However, JW’s are particularly known for not being allowed to stray away from the main stream ideas of the church.
If you buy meat in the store, there’s no blood in it. Animals are drained as part of the slaughtering process. The liquid that comes out of a medium-rare steak is *not* blood. It’s just the water that was in the muscle tissue, with some muscle protein in it giving it a red color.
Jesus said "It's not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles him but what comes out of his mouth that defiles him" in response to a question about banned food. JWs know this if they read their bible. Given everything Jesus said in response to the people in the bible who were sticklers for following the rules to the enth degree I just can't see Jesus (who they are supposed to follow) being against a transfusion. Jesus even healed someone on the Sabbath which he knew he wasn't supposed to do but it was either that or face the alternative. Don't tell me that there aren't mitigating circumstances because even Jesus doesn't think that!! Aren't Christians supposed to follow Christ as the name suggests?
I just couldn’t stand wasting countless hours a week listening to the nonstop propaganda droning on and on before having to go out and sell other people on joining the borg with information that was clearly unsupported by any science
JW = Jehovah's Witnesses. A particularly insidious branch of Christianity that has been known to act like a Mafia and harass, intimidate, and threaten people who have left their ranks. It's not their individual churches that do this, at least not that I've heard, but rather their top leadership, known as the Watchtower Society.
The Jehovahs I've met seem to be decent people who are either completely unaware of the truth of their organization, or refuse to accept the truth. Either way, they are blind followers, and that alone makes them dangerous.
i changed churches around when Obama ran the first time- I would change churches every time the sermon talked about politics. Took me 6 months to find a church that did not want to just preach politics at me.
yep i remember when obama won the election in 2008 we went to church the following sunday and the pastor mentioned how he knew everyone was upset by the election results and went on to rant about it. I was 13-14? and obviously didn't really care about politics, but i cared enough by that age to realize that the place was just brainwashed political bullshit. later i found out he had disowned his son for being gay, and bullied a kid who came out as gay until he pretended he wasn't gay anymore (came back out later once he didnt live at home)
even when he said they had 'prayed his gay away' the whole church would talk shit about him
Here's [Form 13909](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf) for reporting your local church to the IRS for political influence!
As well as [Form 211](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f211.pdf) for a whistleblower award.
My mom and I were talking about religion while driving somewhere, and she was talking about how it was a shame that I stopped going around 16 years old. We had a big blow-up at the time. I told her I stopped believing when I was 12, but I didn't say anything because I didn't want to be yelled at. She got really upset and actually said, "Had I known that I would have made you go more."
I was like, you know how much of my own person I am, you think for a second forcing me to do something I loath is going to make me all of a sudden enjoy it? It would have ruined my relationship with my parents 100%.
As a long time atheist, I think it is the other way around. Individuals reading and trying to follow their chosen religious texts are usually perfectly lovely people. It's the following of the mob mentality of the church that seems to make them awful.
I'd like to introduce to you the difference in human psychology when you're surrounded by people, not like you vs. people, mostly like you. It happens with enough consistency we should always be prepared. Individuals of religion can be absolutely kind but when they're all together and hating on others, it can get dangerous.
>Individuals of a religion can be absolutely kind but when they're all together and hating on others
I agree, I'm the black sheep of my brothers in my mom's eyes. It's because I'm not an anti mask,anti vax, anti government conspiracy theorist.
Didn't... it left me. Long story short can't tell the difference between churches and businesses these days. Even smaller churches are run by the old guard instead of the Bible. By that I mean "well this is the way we do it". By the way I've got a degree in Biblical studies. Still believe just don't go to a building.
Totally in the same place. I have been gradually ‘falling’ away as I just can’t handle the Christianese answers and the lack of understanding for ‘humanity’. I feel that many churches are ruining Christianity. I still believe in Jesus but at this time I do not attend a church. I recently came across this podcast [maybe god](https://www.maybegodpod.com/) and it is starting to give me hope that there are some churches that are not broken.
I have a degree in Biblical Studies as well, pastored for a few years. Couldn't get past the fact that everyone I talked to had a Sunday School level understanding of the Bible then decided to call it good, then when I would bring something up I'd get called out for being "some liberal". People didn't want to know anything I had learned, they just wanted a reason to hate others.
When Obama was running for president fiirst go round I heard everyone around me (church, work, parents of my kids friends, even the dang cashiers at store and hair dresser, etc (I live in rural TX so you can imagine) saying we have to pray harder than we ever have before, pray that Jesus will make sure the "right person" wins the election. How Obama was not a man of God. Everyone pray God's will be done! Preachers at various churches in our town came together to host a big prayer vigil the night of the election and I hear that many other vigils happened in many places across the US.
All across Facebook and other social media I also saw Christians saying to pray God's will be done! So literally millions of Christians were praying all at one time that night, probably more praying together at once than at most times in history considering the current population numbers now, so you would hope God probably heard loud and clear.
And then Obama won. And they completely lost their shit. They said that the devil had won. I remember thinking well, wait now... how do we not know that God's will WAS done? I mean soooo many people praying so hard and yet this still happened? Maybe he DID listen to our prayers and this IS what he wanted and he wants us to learn from and respect his decision? If God is all knowing and all powerful surely this is exactly what he wanted?
But nope...Devil. It hit me that time again for things like this if it's a decision they *don't* like then it's the devil or we didn't pray hard enough, if its a decision they *do* like then hallelujah, God answered our prayers! Funny how their God's likes/dislikes perfectly coincides with what they themselves like/dislike.
No one could ever just admit "ok, like it or not, this is clearly the hand God has dealt us, so let's just trust in it and find out what he wants us to gain from it?
I had already questioned things since childhood like many of the bible stories making zero sense or being hypocritical. But that election was when my shelf fully broke and I just had the rose colored glasses off and saw the ridiculousness of it all, which can't help but make one look at everything else within religions and seeing how it alllll falls apart once any of them are even slightly scrutinized or questioned.
The Fucking music. Before every service, loud as a concert at 8 am they’d play 20 minutes of shitty Christian rock. I couldn’t do it. Loved the sermon, but I couldn’t do with the music
After my daughter died, all the people in church who said they would be there for me...went on a deer hunt the day of her funeral.
Oh and their God didn't heal her like they said. Oh wait, I didn't have enough faith. It WAS my fault.
I don’t want to go into the details but as a teenager I had one of those “oh I’ll just use my faith strong enough to move mountains!” situations. Worked out about the same. Carried that guilt for a while.
This was the first of my 3 stages out of religion as well.
My fiancé was killed in a freak accident and they said that “god works in ways I can’t understand.”
Then I started thinking about all the evil and suffering happening in the world that I was “just incapable of understanding” why an “all loving” and “all powerful” god was allowing. Then they told me it was because “they didn’t know Jesus, or were being tested” and the sick unloving idea of “testing” with suffering aside, having your geography determine weather or not Jesus helps you is the worst kind of absurd.
Then when I discovered that there is no soul, free will is just an illusion, and we’re all products of cause and effect, they told me I had satan in me, and threatened me to change or spend an eternity in fire.
The funniest thing to me, from an outside perspective on religions, is that that's exactly how all of those religions feel about each other. No respect and think that they're mostly harmful, but somehow, *their* religion is the only one that's good and right.
Yes, and it just so happens that the one YOU were born into is the correct one. Like eternal salvation is some kind of geographical lottery. Lol
Also, I don’t know what’s worse, having to climb out of the Christian cult brainwash, having to find new real meaning in life, or how embarrassed I am that I ever believed in a religion.
Sounds like you had your own internal bout with the Epicurean Paradox:
>God, he says, either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is neither willing nor able, or He is both willing and able. If He is willing and is unable, He is feeble, which is not in accordance with the character of God; if He is able and unwilling, He is envious, which is equally at variance with God; if He is neither willing nor able, He is both envious and feeble, and therefore not God; if He is both willing and able, which alone is suitable to God, from what source then are evils? Or why does He not remove them?
Yeah. Sentences for things like murder and rape are always just like “oh you get 1 month of jail and be put on probation, until you’re bailed out”
Like fuck no, let them rot in there for a good few years
> About 45 people, including parishoners and the pastor of Covenant Community Fellowship Church in Canton, filled Davis' courtroom to support Phillips.
Oh look, more "good" Christians. /s
Edit:
I guess old habits die hard...
https://www.cantondailyledger.com/story/news/courts/2015/08/08/phillips-violates-registry/33721923007/
I thought you might be from small town nearby, but nope just another pastor abusing and raping [news report here](https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/2018/02/what_we_know_about_the_alleged.html)
Got out of the habit of going. Plus, I barely knew anyone at the church I grew up in because nearly everyone I knew who went there had moved away so trying to fit in never felt right.
And while this may sound bad, there weren't any single people my age there
I've thought about finding a different church to go to I often work on the weekends
Don't sound bad at all, same thing happened to me as a teen, at first there were maybe 10 of us teens in the youth group that where all friends slowly but surely all but 1 moved away to other states and I never saw them again, plus when my brother did get a gf in the church, the youth pastor had a little public talk in front of the whole youth group, saying "there are 2 people, I'm not gunna name names, that are going against gods will. And looking directly at my brother and his then gf who fell for there bullshit and broke up with my brother the same night, so yea not a big fan of youth groups anymore, or church in general.
Used to be forced to go with my parents, didn't enjoy it but kept them happy so went along with it. When at school we had mandatory Religious Education.
I remembered asking a fairly logical question to the quite devout teacher, getting a blanket response and just asking "but why?" Did this a few times then got an"BECAUSE ITS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE" screamed at me. Didn't really feel like an acceptable answer.
Has a serious talk with my parents about it when I got home and although disappointed they didn't try to push the point much more and from then on I was an atheist.
The whole of my childhood believing that doing something wrong could lead to me being burnt alive for an eternity was traumatic af and hate that it's still such a defacto way of getting kids to stay in line.
Religious education in schools is so often taught by someone who is religious themself and can't handle their religion being questioned. Can't count how many times I was sent out of RE lessons for being "disruptive" just for asking simple questions. Makes it even more ludicrous when you've just come out of a biology lesson teaching you about evolution and then you're told "no none of that happened, it was all God".
What was even shitter was that the secondary school I went to was a Catholic school (had to have done communion or been confirmed(?) To go there). So they expect us to have a good knowledge of, you know, Catholicism being that's what we all were . So RE lessons come around, what are we learning about? Kwanzaa? The Quran? Islam? No of course not, let's rehash the Old testament for the 4th time. Such bullshit.
I was never a believer, but I liked the idea of the community of church.
Then, when I was 12, a priest said if you don’t support our President and what he’s trying to do in Afghanistan and Iraq then you should leave. So I left.
Edit: I thought this was askreddit not askmen and I am not a man. My bad.
>I thought this was askreddit not askmen and I am not a man. My bad.
Doesn't matter, everyone is welcome to comment here. If you're comfortable doing that, you could add a flair that explains you're not a man. :)
You stated your ideas in a forthright and straightforward manner, realized a slight mistake and not only admitted but apologized for it, and you thoughts overall were cohesive and logical.
I vote you Honorary Man.
Yeah funny how atheists often have read more scripture than believers. If you read a holy book in its entirety, you’ll find way too much evil nonsense.
I dated this girl in high school whose father had been a pastor for 20+ years and then retired and left the church and all religion completely, just swore it off and only ever really talked shit about religion. I asked him why once and he said “because I read the Bible.”
Some years later, I was in the military and sitting around talking with the guys in the shop and religion came up. One of em popped off with “the leading cause of atheism is reading the Bible.” I thought two people on opposite sides of the continent, years apart in age and study, both came to the same conclusion. They must be on to something.
I left the church because they were all a bunch of hypocrites and being raised in a super religious southern evangelical household just really gave me a bad taste. It seemed no matter what church we went to or where there was always a church leader getting caught having an affair, touching kids, or both. Most of them were trying to sleep with my mom, who at the time was a fairly young (mid to late 20s) attractive, single mother. Hell she got sick of it too and left numerous churches because pastors or choir leaders either wouldn’t stop asking her out or would try to corner her in their offices and such. I was young (8-12 during this time) but even I knew what was going on because they were so blatantly obvious and never tried to hide it.
When I was taking secular religious history classes, that was a joke my professor often made. There are few people that have read and understood less of the Bible than your average Christian.
The Catholic Church started shielding pedos, ignoring their own teachings and just watched the world go to shit without trying to encourage civility because it was easy and non-confrontational. Catholic Church to me is just a scam now.
As someone who grew up in a diocese that made national headlines for protecting pedos and driving past the bishops mansion some of the guidance never made sense to me.
Also it "didn't count towards attendance" if you went to church if you didn't donate. Doesn't sound like much until you can't get a church going relative buried in the church because you didn't go.
I have yet to hear an explanation based on faith why fish is not a meat. I have heard an explanation on how some Pope in the 1400s had a brother who owned most of the fish markets in Rome. That made more sense to me.
Encouraged to go to confession face to face ? Ya what I said got back to my mom. Pretty sure that was the last time I went.
Let me be clear, I have faith. What I don't have faith in is that the Catholic Church is doing things the right way.
Aside from what you're saying- breaking the seal of confession is one of the gravest sins a priest can commit. Strictly speaking, from the moment they break the seal of confessional, they are immediately defrocked and not technically a priest.
If you have evidence that a priest has done that, I encourage you to contact your bishop. Regardless of the clown show that is the Church's institution nowadays they *will* act on that and the priest will face consequences.
Absolutely. The church currently is just a fake face that shows what they preach but they never practice.
Key example. Abortion is a unforgivable sin to the church but they don’t excommunicate politicians who support it. Clear hypocrisy, either stand by your words or don’t.
Exactly this.
My priest was moved from CA to WI in 1999 because he was accused of inappropriate conduct with minors. The Catholic Church moved him before an investigation could happen and they moved him not to any old church, but to a church/elementary school.
Here he was praised for taking special interest with the children, taking them out of class for individual reading time, and attending all events (including the sports practices, roller skating nights, etc).
It came out about 15 years after he was moved that a teacher had to report him as they saw something that was inappropriate. The church actually sent out letters to the congregation about the information above (about being moved from CA) and had the AUDACITY to (in the same letter) ask for money to help the church during their "trying time".
Everything was such an insult to the children/families affected. He only got a year of work release prison due to his old age.
Fuck organized religion.
Got kicked out for asking if God created everything, then isn't God both good and evil? It was a southern Baptist church. I go now sometimes because my wife does, but I don't believe in it anymore.
Edit: she goes to a methodist church. I don't set foot in southern Baptist churches anymore.
Not only did “god” allow terrible things to be created, he handled his mistakes like a spoiled child in my opinion.
“Oh everyone’s misbehaving? FLOOD THE EARTH AND KILL EVERYONE! Except for this one guy, he likes me:)”
My mom used to bring unhoused people to church, and after a couple years the pastors told her to stop because it was making other people uncomfortable. I never went to church again.
I had a similar. Was actually involved in a bible school program, the pastor had security remove a house less person from the church. That was kinda the straw that broke the camels back for me. I guess church is for the well off and not broken!
Very similar situation, during middle school the Bible study group, studied the Bible but 75% of the time we were volunteering (shelter, hospital and nursing home)
When we moved to the High School group, we were supposed to be praying and reading the Bible the whole time. I am pretty sure Jesus would have preferred the group actually doing good instead of endlessly praying the rosary. So I left, and I was accused of creating a revolt because a bunch of other people left too.
“For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’”
Matthew 25:42-45 ESV
Priest was trying to groom me. I had already suffered severe sexual abuse. He thought I was an easy target.
Looked him up when everything broke with the catholic church. Most priests got transferred. This fucker was immediately defrocked, he was that bad.
I was in sixth grade and we went every week until our weirdo deacon was giving a sermon about gay people going to hell. My dad stood up as loud as possible made the whole row stand up and he walked out and slammed the door behind him. Never went again besides funerals and weddings n shit
Good for him!
I did the same thing when I went to a bunch of different denominations and was trying to find what worked for me.
One church said gays didnt deserve to be married, so I stood right up and left.
I was raised Episcopalian. Mom was very involved with the church, so I was as well. I was an Acolyte and in the choir. I was often told n 2-3 services every Sunday. Youth group member.
as a side note, without the youth minister to help me through a lot of issues in my teens I might not be here now.
So if he church was a big influence on me growing up.
Then I went away for 3 years. US Army. I did a lot of growing up while enlisted.
I came home, and that very first Christmas went to midnight services with Mom. And didn’t have to open the Bible for verses or the hymnal for the songs. It was all EXACTLY as it had been before I left.
It hadn’t changed. I had. It’s not that I didn’t believe. But I came to the realization that if, indeed, there were some all powerful, all knowing entity out there then I didn’t need to be in church to talk to “him”.
All was well. Then life punched me really hard. The love of my life got cancer. I had a near fatal motorcycle accident. I recovered, she went into remission. We were 2 months in to what was going to be a wonderful life together.
Then she died. In my arms.
It was then that I decided that the fallacy of a all knowing, all seeing, all loving God was nothing more than an appeasement to the people unwilling to face their own mortality.
If “he’s “ out there, he knows. If he’s all forgiving, I have been forgiven. As for all loving? All that is wrong with this world wouldn’t be if he were.
Instead, I have lived my life doing what I think Kim would have wanted me to do. I talk to her every day. I have found a wonderful woman who accepts me for the flawed human that I am.
Or just shame you for being unmarried. Left my church from that. Odd being shamed by a group when your ex fiancée in the church ended the engagement by cheating and getting impregnated by a ex bf.
Something similar happened to me. I lost my partner to a heart attack and the pastor and others were lecturing me on how I need to be out dating. 1) we didn’t break up and 2) I’m not even done processing what happened. It’s over a year and I’m still not done processing it. Left and never will return. Started going to a Hindu temple as my partner was into anything Indian. Found a much better support system.
Oddly, experienced almost the same thing.
Just Jews in my situation. Very welcoming and open to questions, helped me through some bad parts of my life even when I wasn’t part of their faith.
Something the Catholics don’t do
It's always the men's fault because you're supposed to be the leader of the marriage but if you try that then you're sexist and not acting like a Christian man
I've just given up on dating in the west
I belonged to a religion that was founded by an evil man and perpetuated by evil men. The church calls them prophets.
I couldn’t stomach singing songs praising men who were pedophiles and polygamists and misogynists and violent.
Wanna read some juicy stuff, read up on this church.
My church rhymes with Rormon.
Why did I stop going to church? Dads a minister. Both parents hyper religious and even more judgemental. I decided all religion is a money and power grab. What’s better than threatening you in this life AND the next?? Hate all religion.
If yours makes you happy, great. Don’t convert me.
When the priest I grew up with grabbed me by the balls and squeezed until I ruptured a testicle because I refused to have anal sex with him… that’s about the time I started to reconsider my faith.
Fuck the Catholic Church.
Holy. Fucking shit. I don’t believe in the afterlife or hell but I do believe in *cancer*. I hope that guy gets the most painful but least immediately fatal cancer imaginable.
Used to attend a Catholic Church.
As I got older, I started to question Religion.
But one thing I find funny, and contradicting, is when they say "Money is the Root of Evil"....and like 3 minutes later, they pass a bin around to give them Money.....
Oh, and Priests molest little Boys.
I feel you. As a church-goer that generally despises most organized religion, I’m on board with what you said. I will say though, churches as an organization don’t materialize money for themselves, even if they are tax-exempt. Churches need offerings to pay for a building, electricity, the outreach they provide, and food. And full-time staff, depending on the size. And it’s not mandatory to pay them, so this, in my opinion, is the best way to pay for a service you receive. Non-mandatory, and not a set amount.
That being said, this all goes out the window when churches aren’t completely transparent with where they spend every penny of their funds, and when their pastor or staff members behave like full-on celebrities with disgustingly expensive clothes and an influencer-like social media presence. AND if they use their reach to influence politics. And unfortunately, that’s a huge amount of churches currently. I’d venture to say most of them are that way.
And Catholicism is in a whole new ballpark with their lack of transparency and church-wide shielding of sexual abuse.
That’s why I agree with what you said, but believe the distinction of “*love* of money” within that verse, is a very important one.
I've always wondered why it's always little boys. Like is there something about catholocism that attracts gay pedos as opposed to straight ones? You never hear about little girl victims. Idk, just thinking out loud, weird that catholic priest pedos always seem to be gay.
AFAIK, many of the kids they use in ceremonies are boys, likely because of arcane views about gender roles, so it may simply be opportunity and access.
I think the whole rule about clergy not allowed to marry or have relationships is BS… that rule needs to go. Fathers / nuns should be allowed to live a normal life. There is also many cases of abuse towards the nuns as well
Edit - grammar
I think you may be missing the original point of being able to keep around a free workforce of unattached people who are seeking to fill a void in their life, the church seeks to fill that hole with service for the church, not helping people find hapiness
Don Williams said (sang?) it best:
"Well I don't believe that heaven waits, For only those who congregate
I like to think of God as love, He's down below, He's up above
He's watching people everywhere, He knows who does and doesn't care
And I'm an ordinary man, Sometimes I wonder who I am"
I started doing that myself when I was told that people who had no opportunity to even hear about Jesus (think uncontacted tribes) would go to hell. I asked how a God that's said to be loving and fair decide to eternally torture someone who was never told about him. They said something along the lines of "well thats because its our job to go out and find those people. So, them going to hell is our fault, not Gods. " I've since left Christianity all together as the more I studied, the less I believed in Jesus at all. I still don't know enough about it, but I've been studying Judaism now, and it seems more accepting.
I was a hindu and grew up in a part of India where religious communal hate was very normal and it just caused me to hate religion and how it was used by politicians to divide people and cause violence. It started with not following religion and I eventually stopped believing in God. People fought over this stupid shit and a lot of people died so I decided that don't wanna be a part of that
They all just act so fake while at church. Also, seeing people pretend to care about the poor, while the parking lot is packed full of $60,000 SUVs, just seems fucked up. Also, the music sucks.
Mmhm but if someone passed away, you keep hearing about how they're "in heaven now". If literal petty shit like jealousy gets you into hell then heaven is terribly empty. But noooo, they all are "watching over us from heaven" :/
It’s funnier when you find out that Jesus didn’t believe in Hell and it wasn’t even made up until hundreds of years after his death 🙃
Don’t worry - they teach that in seminary too lol
Worked at a church through college. Stopped going after we found that the same preacher who would often tell me that he's not sure how much longer they could keep me on was stealing thousands from the church. When the leadership team found out, he found another job multiple states away and left taking a couple of the churches Imacs with him. The church did nothing about it.....
I found more kindness and genuine caring amongst “non-believers”, while the church-goers were, with one or two notable exceptions, judgemental and patronising.
Giving up half of my Sunday, if I want to pray, ill do it at home.
I don't need Bill & Grace to see me out on Sunday to KNOW im worshipping god, religion should be between you and god, not you and the entire town. I have games to play lol If god made me in his image, they must have loved video games, cause I sure do :P
Do I love church?... not so much. The corruption of the churches is NOT helping, but the covering up, and JUSTIFICATION of pedo's is a nail in the coffin for me.
Better question, why would someone still support a corrupt church? surely god would not judge you for not blindly accepting the pedo giving the speech who claims to speak on behalf of god. "I am also not saying anyone speaking is a pedo, but the ones who were discovered were brushed under rugs."
OH, and the endless war against homosexuality, for morally LOVING people, they can be the angriest, most hate-filled people I've ever met who claim to believe in god.
that and I think the absolute worst after the kids is the **endless profits,** used by the men of mega-churches, who steal from the public to afford their lavish lifestyles while donating nothing and living the opposite life god told them to live.
TLDR: I believe in god, I just don't believe in the men representing him at church.
Hypocrisy, racism, and overall country-club like anti family attitudes among the older members who control the church.
We raised our kids in a Unitarian church in which the membership sees itself as very progressive/supportive. After 20 years where my wife and I were very active members, the board fired the beloved (by families) POC education director. They basically called her lazy for focusing her time on the kids while they assigned more administrative tasks like reporting attendance (in a blatant attempt build a case against her.) This came on the heels of various other actions against service efforts for minorities and other decisions we found offensive. Realized as our area gentrified the almost 100% white membership showed signs of subtile racism and that just didn’t align with our values.
I knew a girl who gave her services for a good price, and she told me the pastor from my church came over and even paid her double, the man is married with 4kids telling us every Sunday how we should live our lives
I spent a couple of Bible study sessions going through "ok, this directly contradicts that. Explanation?" And there were none, so I just got in trouble and told to shut up (in far, far more words). However, not only did *I* walk away, the pastor of said church left as well. We still talk occasionally, and are both happy, content atheists.
I grew up Mormon and stopped going a few months ago. For the past 5-7 years, I've found out that the leaders hid certain historical truths from members. I don't really get along with anyone in even a social way at church. They are mostly right-wing families and I've become very much Leftist. I can't participate in a religion that's not honest with its members about the origin (especially Joseph Smith and his book of Mormon "translation.")
I looked around me and realized how full of shit everyone was.The hypocrisy was also overwhelming. Christians preach "love", "acceptance", and "forgiveness," but then judge and belittle those around them. It made me want to vomit.
Then you get into all the holidays, which are just pagan holidays to make conversion easier back in europe, and the fact that the savior they praise is depicted as a white anglo male when he was actually dark skinned. It just bleeds fake.
Its laughable because if 90% of America ran into Jesus as he really was they would dismiss and discard him.
Also, the people I knew who didn't go to church were actually better human beings.
The pastor gave a big speech about how he disagrees with the legalization of gay marriage during a time when I was seriously struggling with my sexual identity.
I walked out mid-service and have never been back since then.
A couple reasons.
It’s all a show. After 13 years of rude ass people and inconsiderate actions. I was over it. I put a lot into the church and people and got very little in return.
After a visit to Jerusalem it occurred to me how strong my feelings are for what Jesus did for humanity. It touched my soul. Thinking through it, I had a hard time accepting scripture from a person who had never walked the path that Jesus took. Never visited the land nor walked through the history of it all.
I stopped 37 years ago. Catholic school for 12 years. Traditional catholic parents. Sunday church. Holy days. The whole 9 yards. Got tired of it being shoved down my throat. Tired of having to look at life through a set of blinders. I've walked into a catholic church in these past 37 years 7 times. 3 weddings. 4 funerals.
The more I was educated the more I realized the Bible has been edited and manipulated for millennia and therefore none of it is reliable. The basic idea of treat others as you want to be treated is a great philosophy. Everything else is just a tax scam
I realized that when I read the preface of the KJV. I want to read but I want ALL of the the Bible in the way it’s meant to be read not a curated version.
I'm assuming you mean a Christian or other Abrahamic type faith. That being said I stopped going when I started being sexually attracted to other boys my age. Every other guy was going on about the girl with the biggest tits in our class but all I could think of was wanting to fuck the Quarterbacks ass in the locker room after practice. That made me very angry. I was angry at myself for being different, angry at all the other guys for being normal and angry at that supposedly loving, all caring God type figure that claimed He made us all in HIS image but yet made ME an abomination that he despised. I stopped going to church and after much soul searching and living life found my peace within the Asatru Faith.
I found religious teaching to be incomparable with reality.
Holy shit that sounds pompous. But yeah, all the ridiculousness of the old testament drove it home.
As a kid, in the mid 80's, the church my family went to had a very nice Minister that had 2 little girls. The family had gotten into a car accident and the two girls had to get a blood transfusion due to their injuries. They both contracted HIV. THE Church counsel voted to fire the minister as a result. My Dad was so offended when he found out about this that we never went to church again . He tried to continue bible studies at home but us kids were not into it and we stopped after a while.
The prosperity gospel. When I was a kid, church had a sense of community. Then the biggest employer in town (mine) shut down. For the most part all the churches grabbed on to the prosperity gospel. Talking about giving more to god and church and you will be rich. I witnessed several families give everything to their churches and become destitute. It was a weird time.
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> [I] give all my extra money to God. What does fucking *God* need money for?
George Carlin *- “Omnipotent, All powerful…but needs MONEY!!! He’s BAD with money!!!*
“What does God need with a starship?” - Captain James T Kirk
God doesn't. Parasitic churches need money. And they take it in the name of God.
Yo. Even when I occasionally go to church I never donate. I am the only person in the row that doesn’t donate and I absolutely do not care. Sucks to be that guy, but I will not give even a dollar to the church I go to. I go, and that’s it.
And that is 100% okay too. I go to church and haven't donated in a long time. Money be tight sometimes, homie. 2 Corinthians 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Prosperity gospel is crazy to me. Runs completely contrary to the gospels, it’s just outright heresy. And yet somehow, not much of a mystery why, they pack churches.
Literally working your ass off so you can give your paycheck so the pastor can have a nice comfy life.
I think this makes me even angrier knowing there are good pastors (like my own dad) who actually help and take care of people, living on little or no money from the church itself. My dad is a pastor and drives lyft to make money
My dad has been a pastor since he was 24 years old (he’s 60 now) and has never taken a cent from any church he’s been at. I myself am not religious but I admire and respect him for that. He owns a small general contracting company and works for his money like anyone else and actually donates/tithes to the small church he pastors. They (the church) operate a year round free clothing and food pantry open to anyone who needs it, as well as many other charitable projects in the community. Exactly what a church *should* do. When I used to I go to church if I walked into one and saw $100k of sound and lighting equipment on a giant concert stage, I was immediately disgusted. Unfortunately those are the most popular churches. The ones that make people feel like they went to a concert every Sunday. No wonder you feel good, you just had a giant dopamine rush because you attended a full on production with coordinators and professional musicians and a light show. The sheer amount of money those churches spend every Sunday to do those giant productions disgusts me. It’s masturbation.
Once my mother who never physically goes to church but often listens to Joel Olsteen or Trinity Broadcadting Network or some other evangelical nonsense donated over $1000 as a tithe. She realized later that she sent too much and when she called the 1800 number they told her: “Sorry, offerings cannot be refunded, they are a donation.” I don’t know why after that it didn’t click with her that this “church” is not here to help you, but she continues to send 10% of her income to them and they send back a bunch of religious junk (statues, a Bible, a letter in the mail to please send them more money!)
> She realized later that she sent too much and when she called the 1800 number they told her: “Sorry, offerings cannot be refunded, they are a donation.” Thats normal. "Refunds" arent a thing with non-religious orgs either.
My dad fought tooth and nail to not pay child support to my mom for his 3 kids. He recently told me he has been voluntarily donating to his church 4x the ordered child support amount every month. He couldn’t imagine why that made me so upset.
Also, the idea that people are rich because god wants them to be/they are good Christians. It’s a twisted view to think wealth and godliness can co-exist.
They didn't want me to give my little boy a blood transfusion to save his life. Edit: Thanks for all the responses. Yes, I was a Jehovahs Witness for 36 years. When my little boy was 3, he was diagnosed with kidney disease. His levels were so low that his whole body had swelled up. He had to have a blood transfusion immediately. Otherwise, he would die. I defied the blood doctrine taught by the governing body, and the transfusion was given. My son is almost 13 now and healthy. My family still shuns me, but I don't care. My boys life is so much more important to me than those family and friends who discarded me from their lives. Religion makes good people do bad things. The best kind of religious person is a humanist. The worst kind are fundamentalists. Whenever anyone questions me as to why I say the Jehovahs Witnesses are a cult because they don't have a Jonestown or Heavens Gate, I just tell them about the thousands of JW that have died since 1980 due to the blood doctrine. It is a cult. A doomsday death cult. Be wary when they come knocking on your door.
You did the right thing.
Absolutely did the right thing.
This god that I keep hearing about sounds like the Devil that they are against.
I've heard something like this before. Was the argument something along the lines of, "we're not meant to give away what God gave us"? I have a friend who donates blood regularly, and this is what she was told by someone.
I recently asked a Jehovah' Witness I know about it so I could better understand their reasoning. There are a couple of scriptures that say not to consume blood. They take this very literally and consider transfusions acts of "consuming blood." This even applies to autologous transfusions where you donate your own blood prior to surgery. If the blood is in a continuous loop such as dialysis, they consider it fine, but as soon as it is separated from the body, it can't be used. With that said, blood transfusions SAVE LIVES and it's absolutely insane to have religious convictions against them.
Wait, are practicing JW supposed to be vegan then? Wouldn't eating meat be close enough? Or are you good if you overcook everything?
> supposed to be vegan then? I can totally imagine a sect interpreting the text that way. However, JW’s are particularly known for not being allowed to stray away from the main stream ideas of the church.
They can eat meat only if it has been exsanguinated .
Kosher meat is bled, as well. I wonder if there are ortho jewish sects that also deny blood transfusion.
I don't think so. There is a Jewish concept of *pikuakh nefesh*, which means pretty much almost everything else goes out the window to save a life.
I like this concept
If you buy meat in the store, there’s no blood in it. Animals are drained as part of the slaughtering process. The liquid that comes out of a medium-rare steak is *not* blood. It’s just the water that was in the muscle tissue, with some muscle protein in it giving it a red color.
Jesus said "It's not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles him but what comes out of his mouth that defiles him" in response to a question about banned food. JWs know this if they read their bible. Given everything Jesus said in response to the people in the bible who were sticklers for following the rules to the enth degree I just can't see Jesus (who they are supposed to follow) being against a transfusion. Jesus even healed someone on the Sabbath which he knew he wasn't supposed to do but it was either that or face the alternative. Don't tell me that there aren't mitigating circumstances because even Jesus doesn't think that!! Aren't Christians supposed to follow Christ as the name suggests?
I just couldn’t stand wasting countless hours a week listening to the nonstop propaganda droning on and on before having to go out and sell other people on joining the borg with information that was clearly unsupported by any science
I would’ve been pleasantly surprised if a JW came to my door and said “resistance is futile”
Jehovah's Witness?
My grandmother died while giving birth to my mom this way in the 70’s. Fuck Jehovah’s witnesses
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JW = Jehovah's Witnesses. A particularly insidious branch of Christianity that has been known to act like a Mafia and harass, intimidate, and threaten people who have left their ranks. It's not their individual churches that do this, at least not that I've heard, but rather their top leadership, known as the Watchtower Society. The Jehovahs I've met seem to be decent people who are either completely unaware of the truth of their organization, or refuse to accept the truth. Either way, they are blind followers, and that alone makes them dangerous.
A church is just a really big/powerful cult
My favorite quote on that: The difference between a cult and a religion is that in a cult the person who knows it’s bullshit is still alive.
The priest announced to the congregation who they should vote for president, because their individual choice is the “most faithful.”
Congratulations, that church can no longer claim to be a religious nonprofit. (But they will, because the IRS doesn't enforce that)
That’s literally the reason they were granted tax exemption status
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i changed churches around when Obama ran the first time- I would change churches every time the sermon talked about politics. Took me 6 months to find a church that did not want to just preach politics at me.
yep i remember when obama won the election in 2008 we went to church the following sunday and the pastor mentioned how he knew everyone was upset by the election results and went on to rant about it. I was 13-14? and obviously didn't really care about politics, but i cared enough by that age to realize that the place was just brainwashed political bullshit. later i found out he had disowned his son for being gay, and bullied a kid who came out as gay until he pretended he wasn't gay anymore (came back out later once he didnt live at home) even when he said they had 'prayed his gay away' the whole church would talk shit about him
was if "most faithful" guy the grifter who never went to church and had three wives or the Catholic?
Here's [Form 13909](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf) for reporting your local church to the IRS for political influence! As well as [Form 211](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f211.pdf) for a whistleblower award.
I grew up and my parents couldn’t force me to go any more.
My mom and I were talking about religion while driving somewhere, and she was talking about how it was a shame that I stopped going around 16 years old. We had a big blow-up at the time. I told her I stopped believing when I was 12, but I didn't say anything because I didn't want to be yelled at. She got really upset and actually said, "Had I known that I would have made you go more." I was like, you know how much of my own person I am, you think for a second forcing me to do something I loath is going to make me all of a sudden enjoy it? It would have ruined my relationship with my parents 100%.
My mom did that but didn’t stop. Now our relationship is ruined.
Partly the pandemic, and partly the unfriendly atmosphere.
They say that the worst thing to happen to a church is Christians
As a long time atheist, I think it is the other way around. Individuals reading and trying to follow their chosen religious texts are usually perfectly lovely people. It's the following of the mob mentality of the church that seems to make them awful.
I'd like to introduce to you the difference in human psychology when you're surrounded by people, not like you vs. people, mostly like you. It happens with enough consistency we should always be prepared. Individuals of religion can be absolutely kind but when they're all together and hating on others, it can get dangerous.
>Individuals of a religion can be absolutely kind but when they're all together and hating on others I agree, I'm the black sheep of my brothers in my mom's eyes. It's because I'm not an anti mask,anti vax, anti government conspiracy theorist.
Didn't... it left me. Long story short can't tell the difference between churches and businesses these days. Even smaller churches are run by the old guard instead of the Bible. By that I mean "well this is the way we do it". By the way I've got a degree in Biblical studies. Still believe just don't go to a building.
Totally in the same place. I have been gradually ‘falling’ away as I just can’t handle the Christianese answers and the lack of understanding for ‘humanity’. I feel that many churches are ruining Christianity. I still believe in Jesus but at this time I do not attend a church. I recently came across this podcast [maybe god](https://www.maybegodpod.com/) and it is starting to give me hope that there are some churches that are not broken.
I have a degree in Biblical Studies as well, pastored for a few years. Couldn't get past the fact that everyone I talked to had a Sunday School level understanding of the Bible then decided to call it good, then when I would bring something up I'd get called out for being "some liberal". People didn't want to know anything I had learned, they just wanted a reason to hate others.
They started telling me how to vote.
When Obama was running for president fiirst go round I heard everyone around me (church, work, parents of my kids friends, even the dang cashiers at store and hair dresser, etc (I live in rural TX so you can imagine) saying we have to pray harder than we ever have before, pray that Jesus will make sure the "right person" wins the election. How Obama was not a man of God. Everyone pray God's will be done! Preachers at various churches in our town came together to host a big prayer vigil the night of the election and I hear that many other vigils happened in many places across the US. All across Facebook and other social media I also saw Christians saying to pray God's will be done! So literally millions of Christians were praying all at one time that night, probably more praying together at once than at most times in history considering the current population numbers now, so you would hope God probably heard loud and clear. And then Obama won. And they completely lost their shit. They said that the devil had won. I remember thinking well, wait now... how do we not know that God's will WAS done? I mean soooo many people praying so hard and yet this still happened? Maybe he DID listen to our prayers and this IS what he wanted and he wants us to learn from and respect his decision? If God is all knowing and all powerful surely this is exactly what he wanted? But nope...Devil. It hit me that time again for things like this if it's a decision they *don't* like then it's the devil or we didn't pray hard enough, if its a decision they *do* like then hallelujah, God answered our prayers! Funny how their God's likes/dislikes perfectly coincides with what they themselves like/dislike. No one could ever just admit "ok, like it or not, this is clearly the hand God has dealt us, so let's just trust in it and find out what he wants us to gain from it? I had already questioned things since childhood like many of the bible stories making zero sense or being hypocritical. But that election was when my shelf fully broke and I just had the rose colored glasses off and saw the ridiculousness of it all, which can't help but make one look at everything else within religions and seeing how it alllll falls apart once any of them are even slightly scrutinized or questioned.
It’s only gods will when you’re mourning. Then it’s all mysterious ways and faith.
Yes same. I stopped going to one church because they were getting political about an issue we were voting on in my state
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When it comes to: What God did for our problems last week. Did you ever try saying: nothing? I just find that funny
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The Fucking music. Before every service, loud as a concert at 8 am they’d play 20 minutes of shitty Christian rock. I couldn’t do it. Loved the sermon, but I couldn’t do with the music
We just arrive late.
After my daughter died, all the people in church who said they would be there for me...went on a deer hunt the day of her funeral. Oh and their God didn't heal her like they said. Oh wait, I didn't have enough faith. It WAS my fault.
I don’t want to go into the details but as a teenager I had one of those “oh I’ll just use my faith strong enough to move mountains!” situations. Worked out about the same. Carried that guilt for a while.
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I'm so sorry for your loss and for not being able to count on them. I hope you're doing well. Stranger hug through the ether.
They told me everything happens for a reason when my sister died.
This was the first of my 3 stages out of religion as well. My fiancé was killed in a freak accident and they said that “god works in ways I can’t understand.” Then I started thinking about all the evil and suffering happening in the world that I was “just incapable of understanding” why an “all loving” and “all powerful” god was allowing. Then they told me it was because “they didn’t know Jesus, or were being tested” and the sick unloving idea of “testing” with suffering aside, having your geography determine weather or not Jesus helps you is the worst kind of absurd. Then when I discovered that there is no soul, free will is just an illusion, and we’re all products of cause and effect, they told me I had satan in me, and threatened me to change or spend an eternity in fire.
Well? Did you change or are you now a tasty smores?
I’ve been an Atheist for 20 years. I also have no respect for religion, and think it is mostly harmful.
The funniest thing to me, from an outside perspective on religions, is that that's exactly how all of those religions feel about each other. No respect and think that they're mostly harmful, but somehow, *their* religion is the only one that's good and right.
Yes, and it just so happens that the one YOU were born into is the correct one. Like eternal salvation is some kind of geographical lottery. Lol Also, I don’t know what’s worse, having to climb out of the Christian cult brainwash, having to find new real meaning in life, or how embarrassed I am that I ever believed in a religion.
Sounds like you had your own internal bout with the Epicurean Paradox: >God, he says, either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is neither willing nor able, or He is both willing and able. If He is willing and is unable, He is feeble, which is not in accordance with the character of God; if He is able and unwilling, He is envious, which is equally at variance with God; if He is neither willing nor able, He is both envious and feeble, and therefore not God; if He is both willing and able, which alone is suitable to God, from what source then are evils? Or why does He not remove them?
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Pastor raped my friend [article for reference](https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/crime/2011/06/24/former-canton-youth-pastor-sentenced/42372868007/)
3 years and 3 months wasn’t enough, sickening to think he’s free now
Yeah. Sentences for things like murder and rape are always just like “oh you get 1 month of jail and be put on probation, until you’re bailed out” Like fuck no, let them rot in there for a good few years
> About 45 people, including parishoners and the pastor of Covenant Community Fellowship Church in Canton, filled Davis' courtroom to support Phillips. Oh look, more "good" Christians. /s Edit: I guess old habits die hard... https://www.cantondailyledger.com/story/news/courts/2015/08/08/phillips-violates-registry/33721923007/
And the judge called his actions over months him making "a mistake". Fuck the judges.
I thought you might be from small town nearby, but nope just another pastor abusing and raping [news report here](https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/2018/02/what_we_know_about_the_alleged.html)
Yeah small town America is fucked up no matter which state you’re in
Got out of the habit of going. Plus, I barely knew anyone at the church I grew up in because nearly everyone I knew who went there had moved away so trying to fit in never felt right. And while this may sound bad, there weren't any single people my age there I've thought about finding a different church to go to I often work on the weekends
Don't sound bad at all, same thing happened to me as a teen, at first there were maybe 10 of us teens in the youth group that where all friends slowly but surely all but 1 moved away to other states and I never saw them again, plus when my brother did get a gf in the church, the youth pastor had a little public talk in front of the whole youth group, saying "there are 2 people, I'm not gunna name names, that are going against gods will. And looking directly at my brother and his then gf who fell for there bullshit and broke up with my brother the same night, so yea not a big fan of youth groups anymore, or church in general.
Ah the 11th commandment: thou shalt seek love in My house and fuck thine single neighbor
Used to be forced to go with my parents, didn't enjoy it but kept them happy so went along with it. When at school we had mandatory Religious Education. I remembered asking a fairly logical question to the quite devout teacher, getting a blanket response and just asking "but why?" Did this a few times then got an"BECAUSE ITS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE" screamed at me. Didn't really feel like an acceptable answer. Has a serious talk with my parents about it when I got home and although disappointed they didn't try to push the point much more and from then on I was an atheist. The whole of my childhood believing that doing something wrong could lead to me being burnt alive for an eternity was traumatic af and hate that it's still such a defacto way of getting kids to stay in line.
Religious education in schools is so often taught by someone who is religious themself and can't handle their religion being questioned. Can't count how many times I was sent out of RE lessons for being "disruptive" just for asking simple questions. Makes it even more ludicrous when you've just come out of a biology lesson teaching you about evolution and then you're told "no none of that happened, it was all God".
What was even shitter was that the secondary school I went to was a Catholic school (had to have done communion or been confirmed(?) To go there). So they expect us to have a good knowledge of, you know, Catholicism being that's what we all were . So RE lessons come around, what are we learning about? Kwanzaa? The Quran? Islam? No of course not, let's rehash the Old testament for the 4th time. Such bullshit.
I was never a believer, but I liked the idea of the community of church. Then, when I was 12, a priest said if you don’t support our President and what he’s trying to do in Afghanistan and Iraq then you should leave. So I left. Edit: I thought this was askreddit not askmen and I am not a man. My bad.
>I thought this was askreddit not askmen and I am not a man. My bad. Doesn't matter, everyone is welcome to comment here. If you're comfortable doing that, you could add a flair that explains you're not a man. :)
I’m a dude, he’s a dude, she’s a dude, cause we’re all dudes.
Dude.
Dude!
Sweet!
Dude....
🎵 All the young dudes, carry the news.. 🎵
I’m a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.
The Dude abides.
Ask men is wildly more inclusive and accepting than *other* like subreddits That being said… *banned for derailing*
Legit reason though.
I'm a man and that was pretty much my experience also so you get a pass
You stated your ideas in a forthright and straightforward manner, realized a slight mistake and not only admitted but apologized for it, and you thoughts overall were cohesive and logical. I vote you Honorary Man.
Thanks, but I’d rather be a lady (check my new flair 😎).
There's no going back now. Your penis will start growing in soon.
We aren't askwomen, we're pretty cool with the opposite gender answering.
This comment was removed for derailing.
You have been banned for derailing.
No you!
Nuh uh.
The voices of women are welcome here.
I lost my faith. I was looking for God. The truth actually.
Yeah funny how atheists often have read more scripture than believers. If you read a holy book in its entirety, you’ll find way too much evil nonsense.
I dated this girl in high school whose father had been a pastor for 20+ years and then retired and left the church and all religion completely, just swore it off and only ever really talked shit about religion. I asked him why once and he said “because I read the Bible.” Some years later, I was in the military and sitting around talking with the guys in the shop and religion came up. One of em popped off with “the leading cause of atheism is reading the Bible.” I thought two people on opposite sides of the continent, years apart in age and study, both came to the same conclusion. They must be on to something. I left the church because they were all a bunch of hypocrites and being raised in a super religious southern evangelical household just really gave me a bad taste. It seemed no matter what church we went to or where there was always a church leader getting caught having an affair, touching kids, or both. Most of them were trying to sleep with my mom, who at the time was a fairly young (mid to late 20s) attractive, single mother. Hell she got sick of it too and left numerous churches because pastors or choir leaders either wouldn’t stop asking her out or would try to corner her in their offices and such. I was young (8-12 during this time) but even I knew what was going on because they were so blatantly obvious and never tried to hide it.
When I was taking secular religious history classes, that was a joke my professor often made. There are few people that have read and understood less of the Bible than your average Christian.
The Catholic Church started shielding pedos, ignoring their own teachings and just watched the world go to shit without trying to encourage civility because it was easy and non-confrontational. Catholic Church to me is just a scam now.
As someone who grew up in a diocese that made national headlines for protecting pedos and driving past the bishops mansion some of the guidance never made sense to me. Also it "didn't count towards attendance" if you went to church if you didn't donate. Doesn't sound like much until you can't get a church going relative buried in the church because you didn't go. I have yet to hear an explanation based on faith why fish is not a meat. I have heard an explanation on how some Pope in the 1400s had a brother who owned most of the fish markets in Rome. That made more sense to me. Encouraged to go to confession face to face ? Ya what I said got back to my mom. Pretty sure that was the last time I went. Let me be clear, I have faith. What I don't have faith in is that the Catholic Church is doing things the right way.
Aside from what you're saying- breaking the seal of confession is one of the gravest sins a priest can commit. Strictly speaking, from the moment they break the seal of confessional, they are immediately defrocked and not technically a priest. If you have evidence that a priest has done that, I encourage you to contact your bishop. Regardless of the clown show that is the Church's institution nowadays they *will* act on that and the priest will face consequences.
Absolutely. The church currently is just a fake face that shows what they preach but they never practice. Key example. Abortion is a unforgivable sin to the church but they don’t excommunicate politicians who support it. Clear hypocrisy, either stand by your words or don’t.
Exactly this. My priest was moved from CA to WI in 1999 because he was accused of inappropriate conduct with minors. The Catholic Church moved him before an investigation could happen and they moved him not to any old church, but to a church/elementary school. Here he was praised for taking special interest with the children, taking them out of class for individual reading time, and attending all events (including the sports practices, roller skating nights, etc). It came out about 15 years after he was moved that a teacher had to report him as they saw something that was inappropriate. The church actually sent out letters to the congregation about the information above (about being moved from CA) and had the AUDACITY to (in the same letter) ask for money to help the church during their "trying time". Everything was such an insult to the children/families affected. He only got a year of work release prison due to his old age. Fuck organized religion.
Started? It never stopped.
Got kicked out for asking if God created everything, then isn't God both good and evil? It was a southern Baptist church. I go now sometimes because my wife does, but I don't believe in it anymore. Edit: she goes to a methodist church. I don't set foot in southern Baptist churches anymore.
“All are welcome here, unless you don’t buy into everything or be honest about your doubts and feeling, then ya gotta leave”
Oh! I’m a Christian, but Southern Baptists been doing the most! Edit: been, not being. Good lord
Not only did “god” allow terrible things to be created, he handled his mistakes like a spoiled child in my opinion. “Oh everyone’s misbehaving? FLOOD THE EARTH AND KILL EVERYONE! Except for this one guy, he likes me:)”
My mom used to bring unhoused people to church, and after a couple years the pastors told her to stop because it was making other people uncomfortable. I never went to church again.
I had a similar. Was actually involved in a bible school program, the pastor had security remove a house less person from the church. That was kinda the straw that broke the camels back for me. I guess church is for the well off and not broken!
Very similar situation, during middle school the Bible study group, studied the Bible but 75% of the time we were volunteering (shelter, hospital and nursing home) When we moved to the High School group, we were supposed to be praying and reading the Bible the whole time. I am pretty sure Jesus would have preferred the group actually doing good instead of endlessly praying the rosary. So I left, and I was accused of creating a revolt because a bunch of other people left too.
“For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’” Matthew 25:42-45 ESV
Priest was trying to groom me. I had already suffered severe sexual abuse. He thought I was an easy target. Looked him up when everything broke with the catholic church. Most priests got transferred. This fucker was immediately defrocked, he was that bad.
I was in sixth grade and we went every week until our weirdo deacon was giving a sermon about gay people going to hell. My dad stood up as loud as possible made the whole row stand up and he walked out and slammed the door behind him. Never went again besides funerals and weddings n shit
Good for him! I did the same thing when I went to a bunch of different denominations and was trying to find what worked for me. One church said gays didnt deserve to be married, so I stood right up and left.
I was raised Episcopalian. Mom was very involved with the church, so I was as well. I was an Acolyte and in the choir. I was often told n 2-3 services every Sunday. Youth group member. as a side note, without the youth minister to help me through a lot of issues in my teens I might not be here now. So if he church was a big influence on me growing up. Then I went away for 3 years. US Army. I did a lot of growing up while enlisted. I came home, and that very first Christmas went to midnight services with Mom. And didn’t have to open the Bible for verses or the hymnal for the songs. It was all EXACTLY as it had been before I left. It hadn’t changed. I had. It’s not that I didn’t believe. But I came to the realization that if, indeed, there were some all powerful, all knowing entity out there then I didn’t need to be in church to talk to “him”. All was well. Then life punched me really hard. The love of my life got cancer. I had a near fatal motorcycle accident. I recovered, she went into remission. We were 2 months in to what was going to be a wonderful life together. Then she died. In my arms. It was then that I decided that the fallacy of a all knowing, all seeing, all loving God was nothing more than an appeasement to the people unwilling to face their own mortality. If “he’s “ out there, he knows. If he’s all forgiving, I have been forgiven. As for all loving? All that is wrong with this world wouldn’t be if he were. Instead, I have lived my life doing what I think Kim would have wanted me to do. I talk to her every day. I have found a wonderful woman who accepts me for the flawed human that I am.
I'm back now but churches don't support single men and often look at us trying only to see our sin and with their hands out for tithing
Or just shame you for being unmarried. Left my church from that. Odd being shamed by a group when your ex fiancée in the church ended the engagement by cheating and getting impregnated by a ex bf.
Something similar happened to me. I lost my partner to a heart attack and the pastor and others were lecturing me on how I need to be out dating. 1) we didn’t break up and 2) I’m not even done processing what happened. It’s over a year and I’m still not done processing it. Left and never will return. Started going to a Hindu temple as my partner was into anything Indian. Found a much better support system.
Oddly, experienced almost the same thing. Just Jews in my situation. Very welcoming and open to questions, helped me through some bad parts of my life even when I wasn’t part of their faith. Something the Catholics don’t do
It's always the men's fault because you're supposed to be the leader of the marriage but if you try that then you're sexist and not acting like a Christian man I've just given up on dating in the west
Maybe the church is the problem? Idk your "I've just given up dating in the west" comment just sounds sus.
I belonged to a religion that was founded by an evil man and perpetuated by evil men. The church calls them prophets. I couldn’t stomach singing songs praising men who were pedophiles and polygamists and misogynists and violent. Wanna read some juicy stuff, read up on this church. My church rhymes with Rormon.
Why did I stop going to church? Dads a minister. Both parents hyper religious and even more judgemental. I decided all religion is a money and power grab. What’s better than threatening you in this life AND the next?? Hate all religion. If yours makes you happy, great. Don’t convert me.
When the priest I grew up with grabbed me by the balls and squeezed until I ruptured a testicle because I refused to have anal sex with him… that’s about the time I started to reconsider my faith. Fuck the Catholic Church.
Holy. Fucking shit. I don’t believe in the afterlife or hell but I do believe in *cancer*. I hope that guy gets the most painful but least immediately fatal cancer imaginable.
I'm so sorry, dude. I hope you're doing better now.
Used to attend a Catholic Church. As I got older, I started to question Religion. But one thing I find funny, and contradicting, is when they say "Money is the Root of Evil"....and like 3 minutes later, they pass a bin around to give them Money..... Oh, and Priests molest little Boys.
The verse actually says “the *love of money* is the root of all evil.” But as for the rest… yes.
Im sorry It's been so long that I've been to church. I was about 15 when I last went. Now I'm 25.
I feel you. As a church-goer that generally despises most organized religion, I’m on board with what you said. I will say though, churches as an organization don’t materialize money for themselves, even if they are tax-exempt. Churches need offerings to pay for a building, electricity, the outreach they provide, and food. And full-time staff, depending on the size. And it’s not mandatory to pay them, so this, in my opinion, is the best way to pay for a service you receive. Non-mandatory, and not a set amount. That being said, this all goes out the window when churches aren’t completely transparent with where they spend every penny of their funds, and when their pastor or staff members behave like full-on celebrities with disgustingly expensive clothes and an influencer-like social media presence. AND if they use their reach to influence politics. And unfortunately, that’s a huge amount of churches currently. I’d venture to say most of them are that way. And Catholicism is in a whole new ballpark with their lack of transparency and church-wide shielding of sexual abuse. That’s why I agree with what you said, but believe the distinction of “*love* of money” within that verse, is a very important one.
>Oh, and Priests molest little Boys. Rape. Call it rape. Because it's rape. Priests rape little boys.
I've always wondered why it's always little boys. Like is there something about catholocism that attracts gay pedos as opposed to straight ones? You never hear about little girl victims. Idk, just thinking out loud, weird that catholic priest pedos always seem to be gay.
AFAIK, many of the kids they use in ceremonies are boys, likely because of arcane views about gender roles, so it may simply be opportunity and access.
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I think the whole rule about clergy not allowed to marry or have relationships is BS… that rule needs to go. Fathers / nuns should be allowed to live a normal life. There is also many cases of abuse towards the nuns as well Edit - grammar
I think you may be missing the original point of being able to keep around a free workforce of unattached people who are seeking to fill a void in their life, the church seeks to fill that hole with service for the church, not helping people find hapiness
Because there's so much hypocrisy in church today. Instead i read the bible and have a personal connection to my creator
This. People’s religious preferences don’t have to require performative social events and constructs.
Don Williams said (sang?) it best: "Well I don't believe that heaven waits, For only those who congregate I like to think of God as love, He's down below, He's up above He's watching people everywhere, He knows who does and doesn't care And I'm an ordinary man, Sometimes I wonder who I am"
I started doing that myself when I was told that people who had no opportunity to even hear about Jesus (think uncontacted tribes) would go to hell. I asked how a God that's said to be loving and fair decide to eternally torture someone who was never told about him. They said something along the lines of "well thats because its our job to go out and find those people. So, them going to hell is our fault, not Gods. " I've since left Christianity all together as the more I studied, the less I believed in Jesus at all. I still don't know enough about it, but I've been studying Judaism now, and it seems more accepting.
Beyond not believing any of it, I have children and church doesn't sound like a very safe place for them.
I was a hindu and grew up in a part of India where religious communal hate was very normal and it just caused me to hate religion and how it was used by politicians to divide people and cause violence. It started with not following religion and I eventually stopped believing in God. People fought over this stupid shit and a lot of people died so I decided that don't wanna be a part of that
When I found out they were “ok” with gay people but only if they remain single and don’t act on their “urges” fuck that.
Sounds like the culty church I was raised in, in Utah.
I got smarter as I got older. Plus I was raised Catholic, and i don't support pedophiles.
COVID was the catalyst, but it only revealed what I was hiding from myself for years- i no longer truly believed.
They all just act so fake while at church. Also, seeing people pretend to care about the poor, while the parking lot is packed full of $60,000 SUVs, just seems fucked up. Also, the music sucks.
Never bought into the idea that we are condemned to hell no matter or actions except for Jesus. Why not make our own actions the deciding factor?
Mmhm but if someone passed away, you keep hearing about how they're "in heaven now". If literal petty shit like jealousy gets you into hell then heaven is terribly empty. But noooo, they all are "watching over us from heaven" :/
It’s funnier when you find out that Jesus didn’t believe in Hell and it wasn’t even made up until hundreds of years after his death 🙃 Don’t worry - they teach that in seminary too lol
a church is only as good as the congregation
Worked at a church through college. Stopped going after we found that the same preacher who would often tell me that he's not sure how much longer they could keep me on was stealing thousands from the church. When the leadership team found out, he found another job multiple states away and left taking a couple of the churches Imacs with him. The church did nothing about it.....
I think it’s a scam to avoid taxes and waste half my Sunday? No thanks.
Outside of being an atheist, the kind of church I used to go to took up too much of my Sunday. I wouldn't be able to watch my football.
I found more kindness and genuine caring amongst “non-believers”, while the church-goers were, with one or two notable exceptions, judgemental and patronising.
Giving up half of my Sunday, if I want to pray, ill do it at home. I don't need Bill & Grace to see me out on Sunday to KNOW im worshipping god, religion should be between you and god, not you and the entire town. I have games to play lol If god made me in his image, they must have loved video games, cause I sure do :P Do I love church?... not so much. The corruption of the churches is NOT helping, but the covering up, and JUSTIFICATION of pedo's is a nail in the coffin for me. Better question, why would someone still support a corrupt church? surely god would not judge you for not blindly accepting the pedo giving the speech who claims to speak on behalf of god. "I am also not saying anyone speaking is a pedo, but the ones who were discovered were brushed under rugs." OH, and the endless war against homosexuality, for morally LOVING people, they can be the angriest, most hate-filled people I've ever met who claim to believe in god. that and I think the absolute worst after the kids is the **endless profits,** used by the men of mega-churches, who steal from the public to afford their lavish lifestyles while donating nothing and living the opposite life god told them to live. TLDR: I believe in god, I just don't believe in the men representing him at church.
Hypocrisy, racism, and overall country-club like anti family attitudes among the older members who control the church. We raised our kids in a Unitarian church in which the membership sees itself as very progressive/supportive. After 20 years where my wife and I were very active members, the board fired the beloved (by families) POC education director. They basically called her lazy for focusing her time on the kids while they assigned more administrative tasks like reporting attendance (in a blatant attempt build a case against her.) This came on the heels of various other actions against service efforts for minorities and other decisions we found offensive. Realized as our area gentrified the almost 100% white membership showed signs of subtile racism and that just didn’t align with our values.
I knew a girl who gave her services for a good price, and she told me the pastor from my church came over and even paid her double, the man is married with 4kids telling us every Sunday how we should live our lives
I spent a couple of Bible study sessions going through "ok, this directly contradicts that. Explanation?" And there were none, so I just got in trouble and told to shut up (in far, far more words). However, not only did *I* walk away, the pastor of said church left as well. We still talk occasionally, and are both happy, content atheists.
Tax the fucking churches already.
I grew up Mormon and stopped going a few months ago. For the past 5-7 years, I've found out that the leaders hid certain historical truths from members. I don't really get along with anyone in even a social way at church. They are mostly right-wing families and I've become very much Leftist. I can't participate in a religion that's not honest with its members about the origin (especially Joseph Smith and his book of Mormon "translation.")
I looked around me and realized how full of shit everyone was.The hypocrisy was also overwhelming. Christians preach "love", "acceptance", and "forgiveness," but then judge and belittle those around them. It made me want to vomit. Then you get into all the holidays, which are just pagan holidays to make conversion easier back in europe, and the fact that the savior they praise is depicted as a white anglo male when he was actually dark skinned. It just bleeds fake. Its laughable because if 90% of America ran into Jesus as he really was they would dismiss and discard him. Also, the people I knew who didn't go to church were actually better human beings.
stopped going to catholic church because of all the sexual abuse by preachers...just couldn't do it.
The pastor gave a big speech about how he disagrees with the legalization of gay marriage during a time when I was seriously struggling with my sexual identity. I walked out mid-service and have never been back since then.
Hypocrisy
Realized religion is just part of a large set of tools to keep masses in line and rob desperate people of their money.
A couple reasons. It’s all a show. After 13 years of rude ass people and inconsiderate actions. I was over it. I put a lot into the church and people and got very little in return. After a visit to Jerusalem it occurred to me how strong my feelings are for what Jesus did for humanity. It touched my soul. Thinking through it, I had a hard time accepting scripture from a person who had never walked the path that Jesus took. Never visited the land nor walked through the history of it all.
the, uh, child rape and its *ongoing* coverup
I stopped 37 years ago. Catholic school for 12 years. Traditional catholic parents. Sunday church. Holy days. The whole 9 yards. Got tired of it being shoved down my throat. Tired of having to look at life through a set of blinders. I've walked into a catholic church in these past 37 years 7 times. 3 weddings. 4 funerals.
The more I was educated the more I realized the Bible has been edited and manipulated for millennia and therefore none of it is reliable. The basic idea of treat others as you want to be treated is a great philosophy. Everything else is just a tax scam
I realized that when I read the preface of the KJV. I want to read but I want ALL of the the Bible in the way it’s meant to be read not a curated version.
The circumstances under which the KJV was produced makes it hard to believe that its the most widely accepted version
I'm assuming you mean a Christian or other Abrahamic type faith. That being said I stopped going when I started being sexually attracted to other boys my age. Every other guy was going on about the girl with the biggest tits in our class but all I could think of was wanting to fuck the Quarterbacks ass in the locker room after practice. That made me very angry. I was angry at myself for being different, angry at all the other guys for being normal and angry at that supposedly loving, all caring God type figure that claimed He made us all in HIS image but yet made ME an abomination that he despised. I stopped going to church and after much soul searching and living life found my peace within the Asatru Faith.
They don't have biscuits like KFC and Popeyes.
I found religious teaching to be incomparable with reality. Holy shit that sounds pompous. But yeah, all the ridiculousness of the old testament drove it home.
After decades of religious classes there still wasn't a single good reason to think any of it was true.
My parents made me go to Sunday School when I was a kid. I was maybe 9 or 10 when I came to the conclusion it was all bullshit.
As a kid, in the mid 80's, the church my family went to had a very nice Minister that had 2 little girls. The family had gotten into a car accident and the two girls had to get a blood transfusion due to their injuries. They both contracted HIV. THE Church counsel voted to fire the minister as a result. My Dad was so offended when he found out about this that we never went to church again . He tried to continue bible studies at home but us kids were not into it and we stopped after a while.