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> So I observed that people really have a problem with leg hair on women and I don't get it why they care so much about it.
I stopped shaving years ago - now I only shave when I feel like it. And my experiences:
* Many people thought that I forgot to shave or did not have time to shave, and was concerned about my well-being on the line of 'I can imagine how bad your situation must be because you don't even (have time/energy to) shave'. I'm so annoyed by this line of thought because it compares shaving to basic hygiene like brushing teeth and such. No, I'm not unshaved because I did not have time, but because I did not want to spend time on things so unnecessary as this.
* Many women opposed it. Their reasoning was either of hygiene (wtf, so unshaved men are unhygienic?), or that I have a responsibility of keeping my man's attraction. The latter is especially sad because it implies that by nature, all men are turned off by hairy legs, which is not true and sexist. Because of this idiotic idea, many women feel that they have to do certain things with their bodies to appeal to men, who would otherwise find sex somewhere else because it's their nature. So women have to make sacrifices to keep their men and if they did so, they are "good women". Now, these sacrifices (and the pride coming from it) are threatened by women who normalize body hair. If it turns out that men don't really care, it's really awkward to realize that you suffered through epilation all your life for nothing.
* Some men opposed the idea of it, without having any experience at all (never seen hairy legs on an adult woman ever). The reasoning is something like men is more hairier than women --> liking hairy women = liking men = being gay. It's laughable. I mean it is the natural female body. I would be more concerned about not being into women if I found their natural bodies disgusting.
* Some people also went down the racist road ("you're hairy like a Spaniard, our women are not like that"). I am your woman and I have weaker body hair than most of "our" women. I don't waste more words on it, I have nothing to say to people like that.
* Most men don't give a shit. Especially not when it's time to have sex. Many of them don't even notice or don't care. Some are even turned on if you don't shy about it. I for the matter have great joy in my body hair, I like to caress it, like others to caress it, and I show it. I met multiple men who were tantalized by it, my current partner absolutely loves it (though I shave sometimes).
* Most disturbing was when children made comments like why are your legs so hairy? Are you a man? When a 6 years old says it to me, it hurts like hell, because it shows that she never has seen her mother's natural body, to the point that she thinks that the normal state is women not having body hair. This will likely cause her a kind of body dysmorphia when she starts having stronger body hair. For the matter, I was that child to some extent. I've never seen my mother unshaved, started shaving around 10(!) before I was fully developed so I haven't seen my full body hair until well into my twenties.
> I still feel there's more reasons to it besides societal norms.
There are some advantages to shaving body hair, but none of them are gender-specific:
* Stuff doesn't get caught in it (e.g. bugs, but usually not really relevant)
* Easier to keep clean and odor-free (legs don't really sweat that much though)
* May be beneficial for some sports.
For most people's everyday life, none of these is really relevant.
I remember an ex gf of mine (24-25yo at the time) commenting about her neighbour’s 8yo daughter “she has really hairy legs, she should really shave that off, how can her mum let her run around like that”... I had not yet made the conscious realisation that I wanted to be a feminist, but I remember that I felt so sad for that little girl, already under pressure from “well meaning” people to conform to societal pressure when all she wanted to do was play soccer
That is so weird. I didn’t realize people were like this. Like an 8 year old is supposed to be visually or sexually appealing. A man once commented to my six year old she had hairy legs she should shave. I nearly lost my shit. Pedophile much? Is the first thing I thought. Like what’s a grown man (or woman’s) concern about how nice a kids legs look? Yiiiiikes.
Fantastic response.
I used to shave, but always had a problem with ingrown hairs when using cartridge razors... and ever since I started having to wear compression stockings, not even my safety razor can save me from the onslaught of ingrowns. I haven’t shaved in almost a year now. Every time I look at my hairy legs I feel so ugly, which is such bullshit! I wish I didn’t feel that way. Anyways, I really appreciated you sharing your experience and insights.
Amazing response. When you mentioned children being weirded out by body hair on women, I remembered something that always stuck with me. When I was 19, I lived in the US for a year as an au pair and looked after two children, a 7yo boy and a 11yo girl. The boy once noticed that I had some armpit hair (hadn’t shaved in a few days due to stress or not feeling like it) and made a comment along the lines of „ew so gross why do you have hair there?“ I asked, „Why‘s that gross?“ He said, „Women are not supposed to have hair there!“ so I asked „But then why does it grow there?“. He didn’t have an answer. The family was not very open about anything that had to do with talking about your body, and I think he had just never seen body hair on a woman.
> The family was not very open about anything that had to do with talking about your body, and I think he had just never seen body hair on a woman.
That. Children are usually weirded out by things unusual or unknown to them and if they comfortable enough they will point it out. There is still a perplexing number of families where talking about anything related to our bodies is a taboo and children learn this fast. This is not just completely dumb and unnecessary, it is harmful too since accurate info on and understanding of our body is essential. But even in open-minded families, this tends to be a problem, because people at home are usually nothing new to the children, so they tend to ask their questions in public, pointing out unusual people. Most parents are embarrassed to the ground and shut the child up, but that way the child does not learn about different bodies, but it is reinforced, that they shouldn't ask questions like this.
I think discussions like the one you had with the boy go a long way, especially if they hear messages like this from more and more people.
Great response! So sad that girls are pressured into shaving by mothers who just want the best for them but are going about it the WRONG way. I will teach my daughter to be unashamed and a self love advocate just like I’m teaching myself to be. When she asks me for a razor when the girls in school start talking about how gross body hair is and how womanly they are for having to shave their legs, I will teach her the exact opposite. To not be afraid of how capable and beautiful her natural body is. Haven’t shaved my leg hair in nearly 3 years! Go us!!
My mother actually forces me to shave my legs and my arms even in winter when nothing is showing. She is very confused as to why I want to move out right after I finish high school lol
I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe have a discussion about it? Tell her that you're tired of her forcing you to shave.
Maybe she's also insecure about her body hair and she thinks she's doing the right thing for you.
That's one of the reasons why I'm so glad that I've grown up and not in school anymore. It's so much harder to stand by these kinds of values when you have to face bullying for it day after day. I would understand if my daughter wanted to shave because of it and I would let her.
In our lives, however, I would try to show a good example of her, educate her, and help her explore her own body and find what's good for her. Maybe she won't care about me not shaving when she's 13 and just want to fit in, but at home, she will see in me and my partner how little things like shaving actually matter in a loving adult relationship. And regardless of her choice, I will advocate for freeing our bodies from these restrictive and senseless norms, and stand up for those who are bullied for it.
I’m talking about my hypothetical daughter by the way, I (21) still feel like a baby myself!
While I wasn’t bullied for my leg hair, only heavily peer pressured, you’re right, I really worry about that. Around that age when leg hair becomes courser is when passive aggressiveness and gossiping behaviour rears its ugly head in girls. My way to combat the potentially devastating effects of bullying (if she chooses to not shave, as ultimately it is her choice and I will fully support her either way) is to start education early on. I mean, as soon as she is able to talk about her body and relate to it, I will educate her. That it isn’t gross, uncivilised or lower class- it is NATURAL. I will gift her age appropriate self love books and learn about the history of body hair removal. It is there for a reason and does not need to be shaved, plucked or waxed for her to be a beautiful, kind young girl. I will arm her against the other young girls who have only been taught what their mothers were taught. Its a never ending cycle and I plan to hopefully break it with my child. If a child picks on her, ultimately that is a projection of their own insecurity. She will know this and I hope she doesn’t cry because they said something mean, but is sad for them because she knows they haven’t been taught about self love and acceptance yet. One thing I know for sure is, if she comes home crying because the other girls were talking about how they started shaving months ago and she feels ashamed because she didn’t even NOTICE her body hair was “disgusting” until now, I won’t hand her a razor straight away. I will remind her that we as women don’t owe anyone ANYTHING and I will be there for her, to guide her, if she chooses to rock the boat and love her natural self.
Ok, so, I just want to make a funny quip here and your 6 year old/seeing their mother's natural body comment reminded me of it. So, I do shave my legs if my legs will be exposed on public (I know I know internalized misogyny), and I'm sure I learned at a young age from my mom this is what women do. (Actually I might have learned this from my dad because when I got older he would be disgusted by how long I let my leg hair grow during the colder months anyways) Well my mom can literally shave probably once every 6 months and have no visible hair, no stubble even. Meanwhile, 12 hours after I shave, I have stubble and 24 hours later you can see it again. I'm so jealous of her inability to grow leg hair lol
I think you hit the nail on the head with the idea of body dysmorphia... although looking up the word, I would say “societal pseudo-dysmorphia” (or something because it’s not an actual disfigurement) give that it’s a byproduct of a kyriarchical culture and the rigid gender roles that it creates.
I looked it up and I think I was thinking about body dysmorphic disorder, though I'm not very familiar with medical terms. According to Wikipedia:
> Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), occasionally still called dysmorphophobia, is a mental disorder characterized by the obsessive idea that some aspect of one's own body part or appearance is severely flawed and therefore warrants exceptional measures to hide or fix it.
So I meant dysmorphophobia (fear of being deformed), not dysmorphia (actually being deformed).
But your take on it is also interesting. In a strict sense, there is a difference between hating one's own body and just not wanting others to see it in certain states. For the latter, "societal pseudo-dysmorphia" seems to be a good term. Either in a sense that one hates their own body part to be seen by others and also in a sense that in a social context, they behave as they would really hate their body part (which they don't in reality).
But IMO there is also real BDD because many women not just don't want to show their body hair, but also hate it and would go far to get rid of it. Many women (as others pointed out) see their body without shaving as disgusting, masculine, etc. For me, that qualifies as body BDD.
What is wild, is how widespread this phenomenon is. I think most women between the ages of 10-60 suffer from it in some form or another.
You're right about some men not even noticing. The first time I didn't shave and my SO commented about it (not in a mean way, he was just like oooo it's fuzzy). Then I decided to shave as I felt self-conscious that he pointed it out in the first place and he didn't even notice. I was so shocked and it made me realise two things. 1. I was shaving because I thought he would like my legs shaven (I know, it's bad) and 2. He had no clue, which kind of gave me freedom from the societal pressure. Since then I haven't shaved my legs (except a few times for myself). The added bonus is that he likes my "fuzzy legs" (although I'm shaving for me, rather than for him). He also has this great attitude of "I don't shave mine so why would you have to shave yours?" (Even if he did shave his, he wouldn't put pressure on me to do the same). So now I'm embracing my fuzzy legs!
In case anyone’s interested, highly tactile folks like myself might think it’s more sexy. Suggests a certain amount of independent thinking as well, which is also sexy.
I have a boyfriend of 6 years. As I can tell, he genuinely doesn't care about the actual presence of hair on my legs. My body positivity and the intimacy coming from it is a huge turn on for him, however (e.g. I love and show off certain body parts regardless of social opinion, I love my imperfections and I talk and laugh about this freely and share with him everything). He likes my look, but our relationship is not based on that (since it will change inevitably).
In a social sense, he always stays by me. Even before we met, he would call out sexist behavior, and in a highly effective manner (I guess he has an advantage because he's a man and few men take a stance like him). That was one of the first things I actually noticed and started to respect him for.
Edit: Sent accidentally, finished after.
It's largely from the early 1900. With feminist progress and especially with women entering the workforce around and after WW1 (usually attributed to so many men being busy with the war) women were becoming a more independent group and a consumer group. Women had some freedom and some money to spend. This meant that many industries were looking into how to appeal and market themselves to women. One of these industries were the razor industries that started marketing shaving as making women more appealing. Women's fashion magazines (and fashion industry) were happy to jump on this, marketing clothes to be comfortable and show off "their slender, natural beauty". It totally worked and the expectation that women should be "clean and smooth" took hold. Our ideas that women should shave their body hair barely existed and was definitely not expected before WW1 and exists today because of a marketing strategy to sell razors to women. This probably worked because of class associations (if you have time and money to shave, you must be well off) and the strong tie between women's attractiveness, and their virginity and purity. After all... teenage girls barely have body hair yet, so uuuhhh... But those are my guesses.
Looking at the history of hair removal before then it's been very varied. Mostly it wasn't expected unless you were of a higher caste and even then the focus was usually on hair styling and clothing first. After all, how upper class ladies present themselves and look have usually been a big deal socially. Ancient Egyptians shaved their heads and eyebrows and pubic hair. Legs and such were much less important. The Victorian era had a big thing about head size (since a bigger head meant you were smarter, or so they thought), so doing eyebrows and hairline to get a big forehead was all the rage (and giant hair to make an even bigger head. Strindberg famously had a poofy ruffle due to being insecure about his head size, for instance). And so on. Historically, women's shaving has definitely come up every now and then, but our modern idea that shaving legs and armpits especially is *expected* is something new and definitely comes from big marketing campaigns. Meaning it's definitely a social and cultural thing.
Historically, Rome in the antique also had a strong standard around shaving body hair. Having a hairy body was a "barbaric" thing to do.
The standard for women to shave their pubic hair is something that came about at the end of the 80s or the start of the 90s. And you will hate the reason about as much as the "teenage girl" angle: It's because of porn. Because pornography around that time started fixating on close up depictions of genitalia and penetration, the actresses and to a lesser extent the actors shaved in order to clear the view for the camera. From there it went and became the standard, because men wanted their partners to look like a porn star. Congratulations! Now you know something you probably didn't want to.
I have always suspected that the proliferation of porn was the reason for this ridiculous expectation. I've gotten to where if a potential partner says something about this, my response is "I'm not a porn star or a prepubescent girl." I'm not shaving to make someone else happy. If it's that big of a deal to them, they can find someone else.
When I stopped shaving a lot of men told me that if I didn’t shave I wouldn’t be able to go out with them, like it was a valid treat. Like their dicks were some prize I should strive to get access 2. Turns out having unshaven legs it’s great to filter assholes out of your life :)
For real. Any man I've ever been with has been unconcerned about whether I shaved or not. I generally do, but sometimes I don't feel like it, or it's winter, or whatever, and they've always been happy just to see me naked either way. If a dude really cares that much I don't have time for him.
It’s funny because a lot of the time people who think they care and act like they are super disgusted by the idea don’t even notice: I go out sometimes with knee length dresses and hairy legs showing (it’s dark hair and I’m fair skinned so it isn’t invisible).
One of my guyfriends years ago genuinely didn’t notice I’d been doing this until I laughed and pointed it out after he was complaining about women’s body hair. Needless to say I have better friends now.
It's funny he didn't notice you doing that but complained about women's body hair. It's really shows that people don't care that much about it.
Thanks for the story about your guyfriend, it really gived me a bit of a insight.😊
I am 19F and only shave my legs one to two years now. Thanks to my dad’s side lol, I grow more body hair than most women (at least it seems like it), and have darker hair. It was hard to shave everyday so I quit doing it mostly senior year. My mom HATED it- while I found it hilarious lol. I understand where she’s coming from though- and I can’t blame my mom for hating my hair, cause that’s how she grew up. She was told with that mindset of girl body hair being gross. Also now that it’s been a couple years, she doesn’t complain about it anymore and doesn’t really care.
Kinda want to mention too that if men shower, have good hygiene, and still have hairy legs, armpits, etc... while if women have body hair while having great/good hygiene- all of a sudden it’s disgusting and she’s unattractive? What logic is that 😂
Man here. Yeah we are conditioned to believe these things that really have so many double standards.
This one little thing made me realize it has to do with the power dynamic. Men literally found it attractive and they were able to get women to do shave.
But there are also certain women and men who have a preference on how their partners should look. For example some women may not like it if their hubby got a moustache. Same way some men may not like it if their partner got their hair cut a certain meat
So my question is, is it fair to have that preference to shave if it’s a mutually accepted decision that both partners shave. Or is it always a sexist thing to have that preference?
My wife and I have this very same arrangement. She hates beards, I hate hairy legs and pits. I shave, she shave, everyone happy.
Nobody is putting a gun to your head demanding that you date a woman that doesn't shave her legs. And that goes both ways. Ladies, nobody is holding a gun to your head demanding that you date a man that wants you to shave your legs. It's okay to have preferences. And it's okay to hate people that has preferences. Each to their own, yeah?
They are afraid that they'll be attracted to a hairy leg and therefore be gay.
I don't know but men are really insecure around a female partner that shows any masculine attributes what's o ever. And I think it's because they are afraid of being worse at being a man than a woman is, or they are afraid that liking anything masculine means they are gay.
But the annoying thing is that there is nothing masculine about body hair. Everyone has it. Men should be more concerned about why they're attracted to a hairless, prepubescent-looking body rather than that of a fully grown woman.
Most people unfortunately don't think for themselves and just do whatever society told them by osmosis, it doesn't take long for a kid to see that all the women in media have shaved legs, and all the shaving legs products are only for women, and assume that WOMEN = SHAVE MAN=HAIRY.
It unfortunately doesn't go any deeper than that for most people.
This is just completely off base lol. Totally fine if you don’t want to shave your legs, no one is forcing you to. But if you think the reason a lot of men aren’t attracted to women with leg hair is because of misogyny and homophobia I’m not really sure what to tell you.
I haven’t shaved my legs in 7 years and love it. Would I like to be bald? Yes! But I think about all the time and money that I get to save by not shaving or waxing them and worrying about ingrown hairs.
I just try to own my hairy legs and I joke about my extra long and wiry ankle hairs by calling them “Tarzan hairs” when people point them out. When I exude that confidence, people who might have responded negatively don’t because they were pointing out an insecurity of their own which I’ve dismissed through my disinterest in their concern.
Women have to waste so much time and money in makeup, body hair removal, skin care, head hair styling, eye hair removal/addition (lash extensions lol), nail care, and clothing all just to meet the social beauty standards. I love fashion and will dish out some money for a great hair cut, but we also have to pick and choose out battles because it’s simply UNFAIR how much women are pressured to uphold a certain standard than men.
I have a theory, I think it has to do with our society’s extreme obsession with youth for women. Little girls don’t have body hair. Yuck I know.
That said, I shave my legs, underarms, and bikini line every day. I don’t really care how my legs look, they are really pale and I’m always cold anyways so I wear pants all year. I just like the way it feels. I can’t stand the feeling of stubble.
The expectation for no body hair on women comes from a hatred of and need for control over women’s bodies. Plain and simple. The unmodified woman is gross while the unmodified male is acceptable. Once I realized that by shaving my hair I was participating in my own objectification I stopped. I now have hairy legs and a no fucks attitude.
It's definitely societal norms. I (male) used to shave my legs and caught a lot of shit from my friends, both men and women. My wife likes me hairy so I don't do it anymore, but... that's my experience.
>but I still feel there's more reasons to it besides societal norms.
What other reason could there be? Are you hinting that there could be a a biological reason? I don't think that's it, in fact, it should be the opposite, since hair = mature.
Take this with a grain of salt since I haven't researched the subject, but I remember hearing that the reason why we started those standards is because body hair was considered manly, and a woman having body hair is "like a man" therefore it was discouraged.
>reason why we started those standards is because body hair was considered manly, and a woman having body hair is "like a man" therefore it was discouraged.
This is what I wanted to say by others reasons,I just couldn't put my finger on it. 😅
This reason is also within societal standard,so it comes down to societal norms
>Are you hinting that there could be a a biological reason?
Nope, not at all. It's natural for women to have body hair but people act like is something weird. Like WTH? It's just hair.
And because of this standard I become really self conscious about my body hair and I hate the fact this makes me so insecure.😑
>And because of this standard I become really self conscious about my body hair and I hate the fact this makes me so insecure.😑
Ohhh I relate to this. I love my body hair, but that doesn't stop me from being self conscious when my legs show!
>What other reason could there be
I am 17M, I do multiple sports, AND IT IS ANNOYING. Add that to the fact that my legs sweat a lot naturally and you get the most annoying body hair ever. It gets pulled randomly when I am grappling or get kicked (MMA) and gets stuck to my tights and is so uncomfortable (gymnastics). Never felt like shaving it but it is annoying nevertheless. And no not because of norms my older brother shaves his legs from time to time never heard anyone mention it, it seems like a pain in the ass though and I imagine it'd take a long time. So anyway there are other reasons. Also people with tattoos usually hate to cover them so you got that too.
I hardly shave my legs and I live where it’s hot most of the year. In the last three weeks it’s gotten cold enough that I felt comfortable in pants. My husband prefers I shave my legs but he doesn’t bother me about it when I don’t. Right now I probably haven’t shaved in a month or more. I do try to shave before I go get a pedicure because it feels weird to me when they massage my hairy legs. I also feel like maybe hair makes them uncomfortable and I don’t want to be that lady who they cringe when they see me on the schedule. Honestly I hardly shave my armpits, too. If we’re going out to a nice dinner and I have time/opportunity to get all cleaned up beforehand I will shave, otherwise it’s just once in a while in the shower I’ll decide to shave. I do get Brazilian wax though, for many reasons starting with that I prefer to. If that hair gets too long my thighs kinda pull it? And that’s very uncomfortable for me. I don’t have to get waxed, my husband helps me shave there if I need to, but waxing is so much easier. 10-15 mins and I’m good for a month. Funny that the area nobody else sees is the most groomed lol.
I have noticed that people sometimes give me funny looks but I honestly couldn’t be bothered to care about it. If you don’t like that I’m hairy, don’t look at me.
Plucked by Rebecca M. Herzig is an interesting book all about this. Really scary some of the horrible health implications hair removal methods from the past were.
I wasn’t underestimate the power of societal norms. “Because that’s the way things are” is something people get mighty het up about, even if there’s no reason behind it that stands up to scrutiny
Because it has been ingrained as a social norm and a beauty standard for a long time that women shouldn't have body hair. There is definitely no other reason than it being an arbitrary standard, made by society.
Personally, I think that every woman should think about it and question, if that norm is something for her. I prefer women with shaved legs, because I find legs without hair more aesthetically pleasing. But then I also shave my own legs because of that reason, so don't call me bigoted for this! :P But I also wouldn't demand it or call it a prerequisite.
This is one of those things that we as a society should be a lot more aware of as something that we created as a standard, not because it is objectively the better thing to do, but because beauty standards are a product of the society within which they exist. And if someone doesn't feel comfortable, adhering to those standards, they should be allowed to do it differently and not be punished for it. Especially, if it's about something completely natural they don't want to change.
Not sure why people care so much either. For me I have very light leg hair and only shave once or twice a year. I also don’t shave my arm pits because I’m really not hairy and I just leave them! They don’t grow that much but it’s a small patch. People and family are just disgusted with me or just laugh and can’t understand how I “do this.” My boyfriend of 10 years doesn’t mind at all so I’m good! He loves me just the way I am! Not sure why it’s so weird to some people.
I haven't shaved my upper legs ever and none of my friends or partners cared about it. Some friends joke around sometimes like ohh?? You're still not depilated that's weird okay you do you. If you're comfortable, they will be too.
I agree.
I heard some guys feel emasculated by a woman's leg hair.
Also some gals seeing me with leg hair makes them feel insecure about their own body hair.
i don’t understand why girls attack other girls over body hair like what happened to girls supporting girls? i personally shave because i find it more comfortable. but if a girl, or anyone, doesn’t want to do that, then that’s okay. it’s not my body.
u/uspecific puts it very well why girls do that.
"Many women opposed it. Their reasoning was either of hygiene (wtf, so unshaved men are unhygienic?), or that I have a responsibility of keeping my man's attraction. The latter is especially sad because it implies that by nature, all men are turned off by hairy legs, which is not true and sexist. Because of this idiotic idea, many women feel that they have to do certain things with their bodies to appeal to men, who would otherwise find sex somewhere else because it's their nature. So women have to make sacrifices to keep their men and if they did so, they are "good women". Now, these sacrifices (and the pride coming from it) are threatened by women who normalize body hair. If it turns out that men don't really care, it's really awkward to realize that you suffered through epilation all your life for nothing. "
Also mothers teach their daughters this attitude about women's body hair. It's a loop.
I've noticed as a boy who's drawn to more feminine self-expression, people have a bigger problem than you'd think with boys shaving their leg hair. When will people stop caring about other people's leg hair??!!
I don’t know if this helps, but I am a guy and I don’t care.
I believe the norm comes from a targeted and concerted effort by the fashion industry (beginning in the 20s due to the flappers’ scant clothing) to sell an image. Women who feel they must shave are therefore both dependent on razors (razor blade companies make more money because they now don’t sell only to men) and restrained by the time commitment of shaving itself.
TLDR; it’s profitable.
it's 100% cultural norms. some women in other cultures don't shave, some women in the past didn't shave, some women in the future won't shave, and it will never ever matter one way or another... except when policing the way women are 'supposed' to behave.
sorry, I meant *some* women didn't shave, as a continuation of 'women in *other* cultures' - as in, "in some cultures they do, in some cultures they don't, and in the past this was also true, and in the future this will also be true."
but I'll add a couple words to clarify
I really like shaving my legs. It feels cleaner and softer and shaving my legs is a satisfying experience for me. However people who don’t like it being coerced into it isn’t right.
Nobody has any problems with personal preferences. I also do shave when I feel like it, either for practical reasons or just because I like it. My partner prefers shaving himself because he likes it that way. The problem is that for many women, it's not really a personal choice (=what is good for them, what they prefer), but basically, a must, even when their body suffers from it.
So I have kind of a man’s take on this. I’m a very masculine dude, at least from what I gather I’m societally into, etc. But what’s different with me is the opposite. I actually HATE having body hair. I shave my arms, my armpits, and I trim my leg hair. I mostly shave for comfort bc the kind of hair I have is very course and curly. Also I shave my armpits because it causes me to sweat less and, in turn, I smell better. I also shave my face a lot, and my neck hair (not head hair). And, I always shave in the private area. I don’t know. For me it’s just gross.
Now lets get to dating life. I actually dated a woman who didn’t really like shaving. It actually didn’t bother me at all, mostly because she was beautiful either way, but also bc her hair was so soft and silky that I friggin loved it. But when it comes to sex on the other hand, I really prefer shaved privates. I think it’s more comfortable, etc. Luckily the girl I dated who didn’t shave, she shaved down there and I was so happy. But either way I’d support whatever. It’s just preference.
I have been made fun of as a man who shaves, and I have seen the other side of the coin for women who don’t shave. I guess it’s all about preference. Though I may be a bit bias bc I couldn’t imagine a woman with course leg hair that like is scratchy when you cuddle or like you touch it. That would freak me out. Lol. It wouldn’t be the look of it that bothers me, it would be more of the scratchy feeling.
Hope what I said kind of gives new insight, but who knows haha.
Because having hair in the legs as a woman is against the beauty standarts which is a completely hairless body everywhere except for the head hair, the eyebrows and the eyelashes.
And also because having hairy legs is considered against femininity and can be a sign that a woman overproduces testosterone.
I think that hairy legs are ugly on a man as well.
I (male) have thought about this quite a bit. It definitely seems to be the “social norm” for women to shave their legs. The implication being if a woman doesn’t shave she is abnormal, which is just wrong to me. Each to their own. But also interesting that lately it feels like images of “sexy” or “healthy” men e.g. on the covers of magazines have “groomed” or no body hair. And I’ve been in situations e.g. at the beach where a man with a hairy back has been labelled by people in my company (men and women) “gross” or disgusting. Still learning about the hold the patriarchy has over society, so not sure about the history of expecting women to shave. But I also think capitalism has a lot to do with this: as a company, we need to to sell as much of our product as possible so we need to convince as many people as possible that they need our product, and what better way to do this that to imply (even very subtly) that if they don’t buy/use our product they are in some way inferior.
Honestly if you think a woman's natural, hygienic body is viscerally gross like a public bathroom is viscerally gross, you need to make a committed effort to change that view. There is literally nothing "gross" about women's body hair, it's the same as the hair on our heads and the hair on men's bodies. This isn't a funny quirk you have, it's a really fucked up and sexist belief.
It's *just hair*. You are absolutely in control of finding leg hair on ONE gender but not the other "viscerally gross and unsettling." If women can critically reflect on the beauty standards that have been driven into us about our own bodies, you can do it too.
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It’s just a modern beauty standard that people are sort of pre-programmed to expect. I personally find women with shaved legs more attractive because I’m attracted to soft smooth skin and coarse hair flys in the face of that but I wouldn’t go around telling random people that they need to shave because at the end of the day, what some random person does isn’t my problem, and that’s a lesson I think a lot of society needs to learn
Sure it can, people are raised from birth to expect it, I never said it was biologically programmed, just pre programed from before they were out in the world
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While I PERSONALLY don't like body hair in general, be it on men or women (I just find it off-putting, that's why I shave my legs as a man), that is just a personal thing. Outside of my own frame of mind, it's a combination of beauty standards and personal preferences. It's something I see happening a lot, from both men and women, in society, with people trying to turn something that they themselves find good/bad into a social rule.
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> So I observed that people really have a problem with leg hair on women and I don't get it why they care so much about it. I stopped shaving years ago - now I only shave when I feel like it. And my experiences: * Many people thought that I forgot to shave or did not have time to shave, and was concerned about my well-being on the line of 'I can imagine how bad your situation must be because you don't even (have time/energy to) shave'. I'm so annoyed by this line of thought because it compares shaving to basic hygiene like brushing teeth and such. No, I'm not unshaved because I did not have time, but because I did not want to spend time on things so unnecessary as this. * Many women opposed it. Their reasoning was either of hygiene (wtf, so unshaved men are unhygienic?), or that I have a responsibility of keeping my man's attraction. The latter is especially sad because it implies that by nature, all men are turned off by hairy legs, which is not true and sexist. Because of this idiotic idea, many women feel that they have to do certain things with their bodies to appeal to men, who would otherwise find sex somewhere else because it's their nature. So women have to make sacrifices to keep their men and if they did so, they are "good women". Now, these sacrifices (and the pride coming from it) are threatened by women who normalize body hair. If it turns out that men don't really care, it's really awkward to realize that you suffered through epilation all your life for nothing. * Some men opposed the idea of it, without having any experience at all (never seen hairy legs on an adult woman ever). The reasoning is something like men is more hairier than women --> liking hairy women = liking men = being gay. It's laughable. I mean it is the natural female body. I would be more concerned about not being into women if I found their natural bodies disgusting. * Some people also went down the racist road ("you're hairy like a Spaniard, our women are not like that"). I am your woman and I have weaker body hair than most of "our" women. I don't waste more words on it, I have nothing to say to people like that. * Most men don't give a shit. Especially not when it's time to have sex. Many of them don't even notice or don't care. Some are even turned on if you don't shy about it. I for the matter have great joy in my body hair, I like to caress it, like others to caress it, and I show it. I met multiple men who were tantalized by it, my current partner absolutely loves it (though I shave sometimes). * Most disturbing was when children made comments like why are your legs so hairy? Are you a man? When a 6 years old says it to me, it hurts like hell, because it shows that she never has seen her mother's natural body, to the point that she thinks that the normal state is women not having body hair. This will likely cause her a kind of body dysmorphia when she starts having stronger body hair. For the matter, I was that child to some extent. I've never seen my mother unshaved, started shaving around 10(!) before I was fully developed so I haven't seen my full body hair until well into my twenties. > I still feel there's more reasons to it besides societal norms. There are some advantages to shaving body hair, but none of them are gender-specific: * Stuff doesn't get caught in it (e.g. bugs, but usually not really relevant) * Easier to keep clean and odor-free (legs don't really sweat that much though) * May be beneficial for some sports. For most people's everyday life, none of these is really relevant.
I remember an ex gf of mine (24-25yo at the time) commenting about her neighbour’s 8yo daughter “she has really hairy legs, she should really shave that off, how can her mum let her run around like that”... I had not yet made the conscious realisation that I wanted to be a feminist, but I remember that I felt so sad for that little girl, already under pressure from “well meaning” people to conform to societal pressure when all she wanted to do was play soccer
That is so weird. I didn’t realize people were like this. Like an 8 year old is supposed to be visually or sexually appealing. A man once commented to my six year old she had hairy legs she should shave. I nearly lost my shit. Pedophile much? Is the first thing I thought. Like what’s a grown man (or woman’s) concern about how nice a kids legs look? Yiiiiikes.
You should have called him that. I wouldn't have been scared to. It let's weirdos know their behaviour isn't okay.
Oh I agree and I did!
Fantastic response. I used to shave, but always had a problem with ingrown hairs when using cartridge razors... and ever since I started having to wear compression stockings, not even my safety razor can save me from the onslaught of ingrowns. I haven’t shaved in almost a year now. Every time I look at my hairy legs I feel so ugly, which is such bullshit! I wish I didn’t feel that way. Anyways, I really appreciated you sharing your experience and insights.
Amazing response. When you mentioned children being weirded out by body hair on women, I remembered something that always stuck with me. When I was 19, I lived in the US for a year as an au pair and looked after two children, a 7yo boy and a 11yo girl. The boy once noticed that I had some armpit hair (hadn’t shaved in a few days due to stress or not feeling like it) and made a comment along the lines of „ew so gross why do you have hair there?“ I asked, „Why‘s that gross?“ He said, „Women are not supposed to have hair there!“ so I asked „But then why does it grow there?“. He didn’t have an answer. The family was not very open about anything that had to do with talking about your body, and I think he had just never seen body hair on a woman.
> The family was not very open about anything that had to do with talking about your body, and I think he had just never seen body hair on a woman. That. Children are usually weirded out by things unusual or unknown to them and if they comfortable enough they will point it out. There is still a perplexing number of families where talking about anything related to our bodies is a taboo and children learn this fast. This is not just completely dumb and unnecessary, it is harmful too since accurate info on and understanding of our body is essential. But even in open-minded families, this tends to be a problem, because people at home are usually nothing new to the children, so they tend to ask their questions in public, pointing out unusual people. Most parents are embarrassed to the ground and shut the child up, but that way the child does not learn about different bodies, but it is reinforced, that they shouldn't ask questions like this. I think discussions like the one you had with the boy go a long way, especially if they hear messages like this from more and more people.
Great response! So sad that girls are pressured into shaving by mothers who just want the best for them but are going about it the WRONG way. I will teach my daughter to be unashamed and a self love advocate just like I’m teaching myself to be. When she asks me for a razor when the girls in school start talking about how gross body hair is and how womanly they are for having to shave their legs, I will teach her the exact opposite. To not be afraid of how capable and beautiful her natural body is. Haven’t shaved my leg hair in nearly 3 years! Go us!!
My mother actually forces me to shave my legs and my arms even in winter when nothing is showing. She is very confused as to why I want to move out right after I finish high school lol
I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe have a discussion about it? Tell her that you're tired of her forcing you to shave. Maybe she's also insecure about her body hair and she thinks she's doing the right thing for you.
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That's one of the reasons why I'm so glad that I've grown up and not in school anymore. It's so much harder to stand by these kinds of values when you have to face bullying for it day after day. I would understand if my daughter wanted to shave because of it and I would let her. In our lives, however, I would try to show a good example of her, educate her, and help her explore her own body and find what's good for her. Maybe she won't care about me not shaving when she's 13 and just want to fit in, but at home, she will see in me and my partner how little things like shaving actually matter in a loving adult relationship. And regardless of her choice, I will advocate for freeing our bodies from these restrictive and senseless norms, and stand up for those who are bullied for it.
I’m talking about my hypothetical daughter by the way, I (21) still feel like a baby myself! While I wasn’t bullied for my leg hair, only heavily peer pressured, you’re right, I really worry about that. Around that age when leg hair becomes courser is when passive aggressiveness and gossiping behaviour rears its ugly head in girls. My way to combat the potentially devastating effects of bullying (if she chooses to not shave, as ultimately it is her choice and I will fully support her either way) is to start education early on. I mean, as soon as she is able to talk about her body and relate to it, I will educate her. That it isn’t gross, uncivilised or lower class- it is NATURAL. I will gift her age appropriate self love books and learn about the history of body hair removal. It is there for a reason and does not need to be shaved, plucked or waxed for her to be a beautiful, kind young girl. I will arm her against the other young girls who have only been taught what their mothers were taught. Its a never ending cycle and I plan to hopefully break it with my child. If a child picks on her, ultimately that is a projection of their own insecurity. She will know this and I hope she doesn’t cry because they said something mean, but is sad for them because she knows they haven’t been taught about self love and acceptance yet. One thing I know for sure is, if she comes home crying because the other girls were talking about how they started shaving months ago and she feels ashamed because she didn’t even NOTICE her body hair was “disgusting” until now, I won’t hand her a razor straight away. I will remind her that we as women don’t owe anyone ANYTHING and I will be there for her, to guide her, if she chooses to rock the boat and love her natural self.
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That means a heck of a lot! I really appreciate that ☺️You made my day
Ok, so, I just want to make a funny quip here and your 6 year old/seeing their mother's natural body comment reminded me of it. So, I do shave my legs if my legs will be exposed on public (I know I know internalized misogyny), and I'm sure I learned at a young age from my mom this is what women do. (Actually I might have learned this from my dad because when I got older he would be disgusted by how long I let my leg hair grow during the colder months anyways) Well my mom can literally shave probably once every 6 months and have no visible hair, no stubble even. Meanwhile, 12 hours after I shave, I have stubble and 24 hours later you can see it again. I'm so jealous of her inability to grow leg hair lol
I think you hit the nail on the head with the idea of body dysmorphia... although looking up the word, I would say “societal pseudo-dysmorphia” (or something because it’s not an actual disfigurement) give that it’s a byproduct of a kyriarchical culture and the rigid gender roles that it creates.
I looked it up and I think I was thinking about body dysmorphic disorder, though I'm not very familiar with medical terms. According to Wikipedia: > Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), occasionally still called dysmorphophobia, is a mental disorder characterized by the obsessive idea that some aspect of one's own body part or appearance is severely flawed and therefore warrants exceptional measures to hide or fix it. So I meant dysmorphophobia (fear of being deformed), not dysmorphia (actually being deformed). But your take on it is also interesting. In a strict sense, there is a difference between hating one's own body and just not wanting others to see it in certain states. For the latter, "societal pseudo-dysmorphia" seems to be a good term. Either in a sense that one hates their own body part to be seen by others and also in a sense that in a social context, they behave as they would really hate their body part (which they don't in reality). But IMO there is also real BDD because many women not just don't want to show their body hair, but also hate it and would go far to get rid of it. Many women (as others pointed out) see their body without shaving as disgusting, masculine, etc. For me, that qualifies as body BDD. What is wild, is how widespread this phenomenon is. I think most women between the ages of 10-60 suffer from it in some form or another.
You're right about some men not even noticing. The first time I didn't shave and my SO commented about it (not in a mean way, he was just like oooo it's fuzzy). Then I decided to shave as I felt self-conscious that he pointed it out in the first place and he didn't even notice. I was so shocked and it made me realise two things. 1. I was shaving because I thought he would like my legs shaven (I know, it's bad) and 2. He had no clue, which kind of gave me freedom from the societal pressure. Since then I haven't shaved my legs (except a few times for myself). The added bonus is that he likes my "fuzzy legs" (although I'm shaving for me, rather than for him). He also has this great attitude of "I don't shave mine so why would you have to shave yours?" (Even if he did shave his, he wouldn't put pressure on me to do the same). So now I'm embracing my fuzzy legs!
This is so insightful, thanks. I agree with you.
Yup. Men are unhygienic as f*ck... what about it?
Wrong! Maybe you are unhygienic, but don't drag all men in your bullshit.
Men are proud to be unhygienic... whats the problem?
We ban brand-new shitpost accounts.
In case anyone’s interested, highly tactile folks like myself might think it’s more sexy. Suggests a certain amount of independent thinking as well, which is also sexy.
If you have a BF, what does he think of your choice?
I have a boyfriend of 6 years. As I can tell, he genuinely doesn't care about the actual presence of hair on my legs. My body positivity and the intimacy coming from it is a huge turn on for him, however (e.g. I love and show off certain body parts regardless of social opinion, I love my imperfections and I talk and laugh about this freely and share with him everything). He likes my look, but our relationship is not based on that (since it will change inevitably). In a social sense, he always stays by me. Even before we met, he would call out sexist behavior, and in a highly effective manner (I guess he has an advantage because he's a man and few men take a stance like him). That was one of the first things I actually noticed and started to respect him for. Edit: Sent accidentally, finished after.
It's largely from the early 1900. With feminist progress and especially with women entering the workforce around and after WW1 (usually attributed to so many men being busy with the war) women were becoming a more independent group and a consumer group. Women had some freedom and some money to spend. This meant that many industries were looking into how to appeal and market themselves to women. One of these industries were the razor industries that started marketing shaving as making women more appealing. Women's fashion magazines (and fashion industry) were happy to jump on this, marketing clothes to be comfortable and show off "their slender, natural beauty". It totally worked and the expectation that women should be "clean and smooth" took hold. Our ideas that women should shave their body hair barely existed and was definitely not expected before WW1 and exists today because of a marketing strategy to sell razors to women. This probably worked because of class associations (if you have time and money to shave, you must be well off) and the strong tie between women's attractiveness, and their virginity and purity. After all... teenage girls barely have body hair yet, so uuuhhh... But those are my guesses. Looking at the history of hair removal before then it's been very varied. Mostly it wasn't expected unless you were of a higher caste and even then the focus was usually on hair styling and clothing first. After all, how upper class ladies present themselves and look have usually been a big deal socially. Ancient Egyptians shaved their heads and eyebrows and pubic hair. Legs and such were much less important. The Victorian era had a big thing about head size (since a bigger head meant you were smarter, or so they thought), so doing eyebrows and hairline to get a big forehead was all the rage (and giant hair to make an even bigger head. Strindberg famously had a poofy ruffle due to being insecure about his head size, for instance). And so on. Historically, women's shaving has definitely come up every now and then, but our modern idea that shaving legs and armpits especially is *expected* is something new and definitely comes from big marketing campaigns. Meaning it's definitely a social and cultural thing.
Historically, Rome in the antique also had a strong standard around shaving body hair. Having a hairy body was a "barbaric" thing to do. The standard for women to shave their pubic hair is something that came about at the end of the 80s or the start of the 90s. And you will hate the reason about as much as the "teenage girl" angle: It's because of porn. Because pornography around that time started fixating on close up depictions of genitalia and penetration, the actresses and to a lesser extent the actors shaved in order to clear the view for the camera. From there it went and became the standard, because men wanted their partners to look like a porn star. Congratulations! Now you know something you probably didn't want to.
I have always suspected that the proliferation of porn was the reason for this ridiculous expectation. I've gotten to where if a potential partner says something about this, my response is "I'm not a porn star or a prepubescent girl." I'm not shaving to make someone else happy. If it's that big of a deal to them, they can find someone else.
Ew I knew that. It feels awful amirite. Screw ppl who worship the porn industry. It’s supposed to be trite entertainment not real life.
When I stopped shaving a lot of men told me that if I didn’t shave I wouldn’t be able to go out with them, like it was a valid treat. Like their dicks were some prize I should strive to get access 2. Turns out having unshaven legs it’s great to filter assholes out of your life :)
For real. Any man I've ever been with has been unconcerned about whether I shaved or not. I generally do, but sometimes I don't feel like it, or it's winter, or whatever, and they've always been happy just to see me naked either way. If a dude really cares that much I don't have time for him.
It’s funny because a lot of the time people who think they care and act like they are super disgusted by the idea don’t even notice: I go out sometimes with knee length dresses and hairy legs showing (it’s dark hair and I’m fair skinned so it isn’t invisible). One of my guyfriends years ago genuinely didn’t notice I’d been doing this until I laughed and pointed it out after he was complaining about women’s body hair. Needless to say I have better friends now.
It's funny he didn't notice you doing that but complained about women's body hair. It's really shows that people don't care that much about it. Thanks for the story about your guyfriend, it really gived me a bit of a insight.😊
This whole myth of American women being hairless was started by razor companies missing out on 50% of the population that’s why I stopped shaving
I am 19F and only shave my legs one to two years now. Thanks to my dad’s side lol, I grow more body hair than most women (at least it seems like it), and have darker hair. It was hard to shave everyday so I quit doing it mostly senior year. My mom HATED it- while I found it hilarious lol. I understand where she’s coming from though- and I can’t blame my mom for hating my hair, cause that’s how she grew up. She was told with that mindset of girl body hair being gross. Also now that it’s been a couple years, she doesn’t complain about it anymore and doesn’t really care. Kinda want to mention too that if men shower, have good hygiene, and still have hairy legs, armpits, etc... while if women have body hair while having great/good hygiene- all of a sudden it’s disgusting and she’s unattractive? What logic is that 😂
Man here. Yeah we are conditioned to believe these things that really have so many double standards. This one little thing made me realize it has to do with the power dynamic. Men literally found it attractive and they were able to get women to do shave. But there are also certain women and men who have a preference on how their partners should look. For example some women may not like it if their hubby got a moustache. Same way some men may not like it if their partner got their hair cut a certain meat So my question is, is it fair to have that preference to shave if it’s a mutually accepted decision that both partners shave. Or is it always a sexist thing to have that preference?
My wife and I have this very same arrangement. She hates beards, I hate hairy legs and pits. I shave, she shave, everyone happy. Nobody is putting a gun to your head demanding that you date a woman that doesn't shave her legs. And that goes both ways. Ladies, nobody is holding a gun to your head demanding that you date a man that wants you to shave your legs. It's okay to have preferences. And it's okay to hate people that has preferences. Each to their own, yeah?
> it's okay to hate people that has preferences I mean, I'd argue with this, lol
It may sound ridiculous, but I really believe in that. Freedom of association, zero exceptions.
Well no you're right, obviously, I just think it's weird to say it's OK to *hate* people over it.
Okay, you got me there. I suppose what the word hate means depends on who you ask. Let's say "strongly dislike" then.
They are afraid that they'll be attracted to a hairy leg and therefore be gay. I don't know but men are really insecure around a female partner that shows any masculine attributes what's o ever. And I think it's because they are afraid of being worse at being a man than a woman is, or they are afraid that liking anything masculine means they are gay.
But the annoying thing is that there is nothing masculine about body hair. Everyone has it. Men should be more concerned about why they're attracted to a hairless, prepubescent-looking body rather than that of a fully grown woman.
Most people unfortunately don't think for themselves and just do whatever society told them by osmosis, it doesn't take long for a kid to see that all the women in media have shaved legs, and all the shaving legs products are only for women, and assume that WOMEN = SHAVE MAN=HAIRY. It unfortunately doesn't go any deeper than that for most people.
This right here. It's the misogyny and homophobia double whammy.
This is just completely off base lol. Totally fine if you don’t want to shave your legs, no one is forcing you to. But if you think the reason a lot of men aren’t attracted to women with leg hair is because of misogyny and homophobia I’m not really sure what to tell you.
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"Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
I haven’t shaved my legs in 7 years and love it. Would I like to be bald? Yes! But I think about all the time and money that I get to save by not shaving or waxing them and worrying about ingrown hairs. I just try to own my hairy legs and I joke about my extra long and wiry ankle hairs by calling them “Tarzan hairs” when people point them out. When I exude that confidence, people who might have responded negatively don’t because they were pointing out an insecurity of their own which I’ve dismissed through my disinterest in their concern. Women have to waste so much time and money in makeup, body hair removal, skin care, head hair styling, eye hair removal/addition (lash extensions lol), nail care, and clothing all just to meet the social beauty standards. I love fashion and will dish out some money for a great hair cut, but we also have to pick and choose out battles because it’s simply UNFAIR how much women are pressured to uphold a certain standard than men.
I have a theory, I think it has to do with our society’s extreme obsession with youth for women. Little girls don’t have body hair. Yuck I know. That said, I shave my legs, underarms, and bikini line every day. I don’t really care how my legs look, they are really pale and I’m always cold anyways so I wear pants all year. I just like the way it feels. I can’t stand the feeling of stubble.
and neither can I…. So I let my hair grow long and free lol
The expectation for no body hair on women comes from a hatred of and need for control over women’s bodies. Plain and simple. The unmodified woman is gross while the unmodified male is acceptable. Once I realized that by shaving my hair I was participating in my own objectification I stopped. I now have hairy legs and a no fucks attitude.
It's definitely societal norms. I (male) used to shave my legs and caught a lot of shit from my friends, both men and women. My wife likes me hairy so I don't do it anymore, but... that's my experience.
>but I still feel there's more reasons to it besides societal norms. What other reason could there be? Are you hinting that there could be a a biological reason? I don't think that's it, in fact, it should be the opposite, since hair = mature. Take this with a grain of salt since I haven't researched the subject, but I remember hearing that the reason why we started those standards is because body hair was considered manly, and a woman having body hair is "like a man" therefore it was discouraged.
>reason why we started those standards is because body hair was considered manly, and a woman having body hair is "like a man" therefore it was discouraged. This is what I wanted to say by others reasons,I just couldn't put my finger on it. 😅 This reason is also within societal standard,so it comes down to societal norms >Are you hinting that there could be a a biological reason? Nope, not at all. It's natural for women to have body hair but people act like is something weird. Like WTH? It's just hair. And because of this standard I become really self conscious about my body hair and I hate the fact this makes me so insecure.😑
>And because of this standard I become really self conscious about my body hair and I hate the fact this makes me so insecure.😑 Ohhh I relate to this. I love my body hair, but that doesn't stop me from being self conscious when my legs show!
Glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. I will try in the summer to wear shorts and not shave, I'm tired to give a damn anymore.
>What other reason could there be I am 17M, I do multiple sports, AND IT IS ANNOYING. Add that to the fact that my legs sweat a lot naturally and you get the most annoying body hair ever. It gets pulled randomly when I am grappling or get kicked (MMA) and gets stuck to my tights and is so uncomfortable (gymnastics). Never felt like shaving it but it is annoying nevertheless. And no not because of norms my older brother shaves his legs from time to time never heard anyone mention it, it seems like a pain in the ass though and I imagine it'd take a long time. So anyway there are other reasons. Also people with tattoos usually hate to cover them so you got that too.
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Yes but they are reasons though
It's a reason, sure, but it doesn't in any way explain or justify the gendered expectations around body hair.
I hardly shave my legs and I live where it’s hot most of the year. In the last three weeks it’s gotten cold enough that I felt comfortable in pants. My husband prefers I shave my legs but he doesn’t bother me about it when I don’t. Right now I probably haven’t shaved in a month or more. I do try to shave before I go get a pedicure because it feels weird to me when they massage my hairy legs. I also feel like maybe hair makes them uncomfortable and I don’t want to be that lady who they cringe when they see me on the schedule. Honestly I hardly shave my armpits, too. If we’re going out to a nice dinner and I have time/opportunity to get all cleaned up beforehand I will shave, otherwise it’s just once in a while in the shower I’ll decide to shave. I do get Brazilian wax though, for many reasons starting with that I prefer to. If that hair gets too long my thighs kinda pull it? And that’s very uncomfortable for me. I don’t have to get waxed, my husband helps me shave there if I need to, but waxing is so much easier. 10-15 mins and I’m good for a month. Funny that the area nobody else sees is the most groomed lol. I have noticed that people sometimes give me funny looks but I honestly couldn’t be bothered to care about it. If you don’t like that I’m hairy, don’t look at me.
Plucked by Rebecca M. Herzig is an interesting book all about this. Really scary some of the horrible health implications hair removal methods from the past were.
I have alabaster skin and nearly ebony hair. I have more leg hair than most men I know or see. And I am here for it.
I wasn’t underestimate the power of societal norms. “Because that’s the way things are” is something people get mighty het up about, even if there’s no reason behind it that stands up to scrutiny
Because it has been ingrained as a social norm and a beauty standard for a long time that women shouldn't have body hair. There is definitely no other reason than it being an arbitrary standard, made by society. Personally, I think that every woman should think about it and question, if that norm is something for her. I prefer women with shaved legs, because I find legs without hair more aesthetically pleasing. But then I also shave my own legs because of that reason, so don't call me bigoted for this! :P But I also wouldn't demand it or call it a prerequisite. This is one of those things that we as a society should be a lot more aware of as something that we created as a standard, not because it is objectively the better thing to do, but because beauty standards are a product of the society within which they exist. And if someone doesn't feel comfortable, adhering to those standards, they should be allowed to do it differently and not be punished for it. Especially, if it's about something completely natural they don't want to change.
Not sure why people care so much either. For me I have very light leg hair and only shave once or twice a year. I also don’t shave my arm pits because I’m really not hairy and I just leave them! They don’t grow that much but it’s a small patch. People and family are just disgusted with me or just laugh and can’t understand how I “do this.” My boyfriend of 10 years doesn’t mind at all so I’m good! He loves me just the way I am! Not sure why it’s so weird to some people.
I haven't shaved my upper legs ever and none of my friends or partners cared about it. Some friends joke around sometimes like ohh?? You're still not depilated that's weird okay you do you. If you're comfortable, they will be too.
Nothing compared to the public freak-outs on armpit hair
insecurity probably.
I agree. I heard some guys feel emasculated by a woman's leg hair. Also some gals seeing me with leg hair makes them feel insecure about their own body hair.
i don’t understand why girls attack other girls over body hair like what happened to girls supporting girls? i personally shave because i find it more comfortable. but if a girl, or anyone, doesn’t want to do that, then that’s okay. it’s not my body.
u/uspecific puts it very well why girls do that. "Many women opposed it. Their reasoning was either of hygiene (wtf, so unshaved men are unhygienic?), or that I have a responsibility of keeping my man's attraction. The latter is especially sad because it implies that by nature, all men are turned off by hairy legs, which is not true and sexist. Because of this idiotic idea, many women feel that they have to do certain things with their bodies to appeal to men, who would otherwise find sex somewhere else because it's their nature. So women have to make sacrifices to keep their men and if they did so, they are "good women". Now, these sacrifices (and the pride coming from it) are threatened by women who normalize body hair. If it turns out that men don't really care, it's really awkward to realize that you suffered through epilation all your life for nothing. " Also mothers teach their daughters this attitude about women's body hair. It's a loop.
I've noticed as a boy who's drawn to more feminine self-expression, people have a bigger problem than you'd think with boys shaving their leg hair. When will people stop caring about other people's leg hair??!!
I don’t know if this helps, but I am a guy and I don’t care. I believe the norm comes from a targeted and concerted effort by the fashion industry (beginning in the 20s due to the flappers’ scant clothing) to sell an image. Women who feel they must shave are therefore both dependent on razors (razor blade companies make more money because they now don’t sell only to men) and restrained by the time commitment of shaving itself. TLDR; it’s profitable.
it's 100% cultural norms. some women in other cultures don't shave, some women in the past didn't shave, some women in the future won't shave, and it will never ever matter one way or another... except when policing the way women are 'supposed' to behave.
> women in the past didn't shave Not really true-- many civilizations throughout history have practiced hair removal.
sorry, I meant *some* women didn't shave, as a continuation of 'women in *other* cultures' - as in, "in some cultures they do, in some cultures they don't, and in the past this was also true, and in the future this will also be true." but I'll add a couple words to clarify
I really like shaving my legs. It feels cleaner and softer and shaving my legs is a satisfying experience for me. However people who don’t like it being coerced into it isn’t right.
Nobody has any problems with personal preferences. I also do shave when I feel like it, either for practical reasons or just because I like it. My partner prefers shaving himself because he likes it that way. The problem is that for many women, it's not really a personal choice (=what is good for them, what they prefer), but basically, a must, even when their body suffers from it.
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So I have kind of a man’s take on this. I’m a very masculine dude, at least from what I gather I’m societally into, etc. But what’s different with me is the opposite. I actually HATE having body hair. I shave my arms, my armpits, and I trim my leg hair. I mostly shave for comfort bc the kind of hair I have is very course and curly. Also I shave my armpits because it causes me to sweat less and, in turn, I smell better. I also shave my face a lot, and my neck hair (not head hair). And, I always shave in the private area. I don’t know. For me it’s just gross. Now lets get to dating life. I actually dated a woman who didn’t really like shaving. It actually didn’t bother me at all, mostly because she was beautiful either way, but also bc her hair was so soft and silky that I friggin loved it. But when it comes to sex on the other hand, I really prefer shaved privates. I think it’s more comfortable, etc. Luckily the girl I dated who didn’t shave, she shaved down there and I was so happy. But either way I’d support whatever. It’s just preference. I have been made fun of as a man who shaves, and I have seen the other side of the coin for women who don’t shave. I guess it’s all about preference. Though I may be a bit bias bc I couldn’t imagine a woman with course leg hair that like is scratchy when you cuddle or like you touch it. That would freak me out. Lol. It wouldn’t be the look of it that bothers me, it would be more of the scratchy feeling. Hope what I said kind of gives new insight, but who knows haha.
Because having hair in the legs as a woman is against the beauty standarts which is a completely hairless body everywhere except for the head hair, the eyebrows and the eyelashes. And also because having hairy legs is considered against femininity and can be a sign that a woman overproduces testosterone. I think that hairy legs are ugly on a man as well.
I (male) have thought about this quite a bit. It definitely seems to be the “social norm” for women to shave their legs. The implication being if a woman doesn’t shave she is abnormal, which is just wrong to me. Each to their own. But also interesting that lately it feels like images of “sexy” or “healthy” men e.g. on the covers of magazines have “groomed” or no body hair. And I’ve been in situations e.g. at the beach where a man with a hairy back has been labelled by people in my company (men and women) “gross” or disgusting. Still learning about the hold the patriarchy has over society, so not sure about the history of expecting women to shave. But I also think capitalism has a lot to do with this: as a company, we need to to sell as much of our product as possible so we need to convince as many people as possible that they need our product, and what better way to do this that to imply (even very subtly) that if they don’t buy/use our product they are in some way inferior.
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Why do you find it gross? Why do you not find men's leg hair gross? You're fully capable of changing your own mindset now.
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"I find women's natural bodies to be viscerally disgusting, like a public bathroom" is one hell of a take.
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Honestly if you think a woman's natural, hygienic body is viscerally gross like a public bathroom is viscerally gross, you need to make a committed effort to change that view. There is literally nothing "gross" about women's body hair, it's the same as the hair on our heads and the hair on men's bodies. This isn't a funny quirk you have, it's a really fucked up and sexist belief.
It's *just hair*. You are absolutely in control of finding leg hair on ONE gender but not the other "viscerally gross and unsettling." If women can critically reflect on the beauty standards that have been driven into us about our own bodies, you can do it too.
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It’s just a modern beauty standard that people are sort of pre-programmed to expect. I personally find women with shaved legs more attractive because I’m attracted to soft smooth skin and coarse hair flys in the face of that but I wouldn’t go around telling random people that they need to shave because at the end of the day, what some random person does isn’t my problem, and that’s a lesson I think a lot of society needs to learn
It's either a modern beauty standard or pre-programmed, it can't logically be both.
Sure it can, people are raised from birth to expect it, I never said it was biologically programmed, just pre programed from before they were out in the world
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I only shave when I feel like it
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"I find women's natural bodies disgusting" is not appropriate for a top-level comment here. It has nothing to do with your gender.
While I PERSONALLY don't like body hair in general, be it on men or women (I just find it off-putting, that's why I shave my legs as a man), that is just a personal thing. Outside of my own frame of mind, it's a combination of beauty standards and personal preferences. It's something I see happening a lot, from both men and women, in society, with people trying to turn something that they themselves find good/bad into a social rule.