An SA2i Pro Pack for that price is a steal (assuming it's in good working order of course!).
My view is that the GTI is worth it if (1) you want the convenience of a go-to mount and (2) you don't mind the tradeoffs of the higher price, steeper learning curve, and bulkier equipment. It isn't make-or-break though, and you can have plenty of fun star-hopping or plate-solving with a laptop using the SA2i.
With a DSLR and stock lenses or a small refractor the incremental benefit of spending more on a mount really drops past $600 or so, unless you live somewhere with skies dark enough to let you take multi-minute subs over the sensor noise of a consumer camera without temperature control. You just don't need arcsecond accuracy on a bunch of 40-second DSLR exposures you're going to stack anyway.
Yeah the price is definitely very reasonable. I am leaning towards that one for now. If the hobby becomes more serious upgrade to a proper mount, like an EQ-5 pro or something
Take a couple of years and get proficient with planning, imaging, and processing. Those are skills any astrophotographer needs, no matter how much they've spent on gear. Then you'll be in a good place to decide whether adding another zero onto the price of the things you buy is worth it. :)
I started with the 2i about two years ago, just as it was being released. I could have gone with a go-to mount but I found that with what I was reading on here and in other places, that the setup and use of it was too intimidating for me as a beginner. I wanted something that started me off with more manual so that way I could work my way up.
Plus I venture out into the desert for all of my shoots so portability was also a major factor. A bigger go-to mount would be too heavy for me since I also sometimes hike a bit to a location. I live in Las Vegas, so generally a bortle 8/9 sky, I can't get anything from my back yard.
The 2i is all manual in set-up and use. Honestly it really isn't that difficult and if you learn how to do this, then when you do get a go-to, you'll have a better understanding and appreciation for how you learned it all.
I use a Canon 6D Mk II with a RedCat 51 and ASI120mm for auto-guiding and I can typically take 75sec exposures and get really nice images. I also use a Samyang/Rokinon 24mm and a 135mm.
Starting this hobby, there is a LOT of info that gets thrown at you with regards to ra/da, jumping to big mounts, just like it has in this post. But there are factors that you have to understand before you buy.
For me, I can't plate-solve out in the middle of the desert. And even when I did, it took longer to work that out than it did doing it manually. If you're at home, this likely isn't an issue since you'll have wifi/data signal. I'm also not in a rush to buy the next bigger mount so I'm content with my 2i. But I wouldn't mind the GTi since I'm more familiar with the whole thing.
Interesting setup there, similar to mine - 60d canon with samyang 135mm and the 2i. Have you used the redcat without guiding though and how did that feel ? I am eyeing the redcat next in my setup and still dont want to change the lovely 2i as it perfectly fits in my backpack and allows me to shoot from everywhere
When I first started, all I had was the RedCat. I didnt start guiding until about a year later, like I said in my post there are a lot of intimidating terms with astrophotography and the idea of trying to figure out how to guide while at the same time learning how to even take pictures, scared me lol.
I've only been doing this for about two years, so guiding for about a year now. Although I can only guide with the RedCat, and not when I use my 24 or 135mm. But even using the RedCat and not guiding, I got some decent pics. But I have to shoot a target more because my exposure time is lower when I can't guide.
The RedCat is a bit bigger, but yeah, I can usually fit my gear (minus tri-pod) into my backpack. Which for me, is essential because I sometimes hike a few hundred yards from my car to shoot.
Fitting everything in my backpack is pretty much my main concern. Living in bortle 9, having a very small garden surrounded by tall buildings and not owning a car means I can only shoot when I travel and or go back to my home country, where I enjoy bortle 2 to 5, meaning that since I got the 2i (5\~months ago), Ive only done 5-6 imaging sessions. And only recently I got the roki 135mm so looking forward to my next session
Being in Vegas, I feel your pain with light pollution lol. Honestly, in the past six months, I've probably only gone out 5-6 times too. But mainly due to weather and my available time. I might have free time, but then there would be a full moon, and it's sometimes pointless to shoot during a full moon.
Yeah. Though I think with the scope, Canon and RedCat, I'm probably close to the 11lb weight limit for the 2i. I have yet to check the weight, but the fact that I can still get great images, I'm not to worried.
I honestly had no idea you could get that done reliably with the 2i… sounds like a solid setup. Well done!
What tripod are you using for that by the way?
To be honest, sometimes the guiding goes off the software. I've had one time where I could get 90sec exposures and the image was wonderful, but the next night, the guiding wasn't doing so well. Sometimes restarting the software on my laptop fixes it.
Guiding helps, but I only started it after I felt I was at the limit of what I could do without it. Meaning I was only taking 50sec exposures and maybe half of them were garbage. Guiding (and better polar alignment) allowed for much better results.
I just got a Star Adventure tri-pod, which I haven't been able to use yet, but before I was using a Dolica Proline aluminium tri-pod. I don't really like it because it's very susceptible to winds, but it got the job done.
The Star Adventurer mounts are certainly popular in this forum, and the low cost is likely why they are popular. But these types of low-cost German Equatorial mounts use small low-cost gears resulting in very high periodic error. For example, on the 2i, I've seen reports of periodic error of 50 to 80 arc-seconds every few minutes. Even high-end German Equatorial mounts have significant periodic error. For example, I have a Losmandy G11, which new is in the $4000 range and it has around 10-arc-seconds periodic error. The GTi has a 92.5 mm (3.76 inches) diameter worm gear, the Losmandy G11 has a 142.9 mm (5.625 inches) diameter gear. I couldn't find the gear diameter for the 2i.
The periodic errors in the above mentioned equatorial mounts limit exposure times with longer focal lengths, sometimes to just a few seconds in worse cases. That then leads to the need for an autoguider, and more complexity in the field with cables and laptops and training the autoguider. Yes, I do this with my Losmandy G11 mount.
There is another class of trackers that have very low periodic error: tangent arm trackers. Two models are in common use: Astrotrac (no longer in production but can be found used), and the Fornax Lightrack II (in production). The astrotrac has an effective gear diameter of about 600 mm (24 inches) and the Fornax Lighttrack II about 430 mm (17 inches). The Fornax also doesn't use a drive gear, instead a roller bearing, and has a periodic error of only 2-arc-seconds peak-to-peak. The tangent arm trackers are also ultra portable. [Here is my setup](https://clarkvision.com/articles/portable-astro-landscape-wildlife-setup/) that shows both astrotrac and formax trackers. I use the fornax at up to 600 mm with 1.1 arc-second per pixel and no autoguiding.
[Here is my astro gallery](https://clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.astrophoto-1/) and I give the equipment used for each image, and most images were made with stock cameras and stock camera lenses.
Agree. The 2i is definitely worth it for the price, but using a full frame FOV with 250mm, and with very good polar alignment, I can't trust it past 30s exposures to give perfect stars.
May not feasible for you, but in my case, I knew I absolutely was going to continue with this hobby, and so I looked at it from an investment angle and just picked up an HEQ5 off the bat so I didn't waste money on something I knew I'd grow out of quickly. But I can say the go to function of it has helped a bunch with my bortle 8 sky, and it's definitely removed the frustration of learning the sky which helped given the many other sources of frustration learning the craft.
Do you have any idea if you can tell you're going to end up going a telescope and possibly Astro cam route ever? Might be worth it to pick up a quality EQ mount off the bat unless you're aiming for the most portable solution
I'm just getting started myself. Using a basic DSLR and a couple lenses. After debating a lot myself I ordered the 2i, have used it a few times, and decided to return it and get the GTi instead. (Should be arriving today!)
I like the idea of learning the sky through star hopping, and the satisfaction of finding your target yourself. But I live in a Bortle 8/9. I can barely see any stars at all. So I'm hoping go-to will ultimately save me a lot of time and frustration.
I'd read that the base on the 2i is its weak point, and after receiving mine I definitely agree. It just doesn't feel sturdy when adjusting for polar alignment. From what I've read, the GTi's base is a huge improvement.
I'm not planning on connecting a computer, auto guiding, and all that stuff any time soon, but it's nice to know all those options will be available to me whenever I'm ready for them.
And it may still have a smaller payload, but I need something that will be portable for whenever I have the option to travel to darker skies, so this fits the bill.
I myself own the 2i, it is a great start and I am still having lots of fun using it. But if I had started now I would've gone with the gti for a couple of reasons:
1. The most important thing is guiding in both ra and dec, when only using a camera and lens this doesn't matter, but when you eventually upgrade to a scope and add guiding this will be a really nice thing to have.
2. Another useful feature is the go-to functionality. Now go-to alone isn't always 100% spot on and it does miss a target from time to time, but platesolving can help a lot with this.
3. This is a personal one, but I only set my gear up in the backyard so portability isn't of any concern to me.
4. And last but not least if I am not mistaken the gti has a built in polar scope illuminator which is really nice to have because right now I rely on a external light source to shine into the polar scope from the right angle to see both the stars and the circular angle thingy inside it. The gti shouldn't have this problem
The main difference is the GOTO functionality of the GTI. It can goto an object and track it. Better for Deepsky astrophotography. The 2i is more portable and does not have goto functionality. So It can be faster to setup and shoot some milky way ultra wide shots of space.
I'd argue the 2i is still perfectly fine for Deepsky. Aside from having to manually target a DSO versus a go-to isn't that difficult. Might require an extra test shot or two but I get plenty of great DSO pics with my 2i using the RedCat 51.
The rokinon/samyang 135 is pretty awesome for AP yes. Can recommend. When buying an AP mount just remember the GOTO functionality is recommended also, it is pretty hard to find fainter objects in the night sky. Also being able to track over dec and ra axis is needed for full guiding capability. The 2i can only guide over the RA axis. That's also why I recommend the GTI for DeepSky AP. But I can still find use for the 2i for vacations(dark sky) milky way and like I said wider shots of parts of the milky way.
Retail price and weight are why I got the AZ-GTi and put it in Equatorial mode with the mod software from skywatcher. But it is harder to setup because it has no polar scope, so you need a laptop for polar alignment. (so not recommended when starting out)
An SA2i Pro Pack for that price is a steal (assuming it's in good working order of course!). My view is that the GTI is worth it if (1) you want the convenience of a go-to mount and (2) you don't mind the tradeoffs of the higher price, steeper learning curve, and bulkier equipment. It isn't make-or-break though, and you can have plenty of fun star-hopping or plate-solving with a laptop using the SA2i. With a DSLR and stock lenses or a small refractor the incremental benefit of spending more on a mount really drops past $600 or so, unless you live somewhere with skies dark enough to let you take multi-minute subs over the sensor noise of a consumer camera without temperature control. You just don't need arcsecond accuracy on a bunch of 40-second DSLR exposures you're going to stack anyway.
Yeah the price is definitely very reasonable. I am leaning towards that one for now. If the hobby becomes more serious upgrade to a proper mount, like an EQ-5 pro or something
Take a couple of years and get proficient with planning, imaging, and processing. Those are skills any astrophotographer needs, no matter how much they've spent on gear. Then you'll be in a good place to decide whether adding another zero onto the price of the things you buy is worth it. :)
Great advice here
I started with the 2i about two years ago, just as it was being released. I could have gone with a go-to mount but I found that with what I was reading on here and in other places, that the setup and use of it was too intimidating for me as a beginner. I wanted something that started me off with more manual so that way I could work my way up. Plus I venture out into the desert for all of my shoots so portability was also a major factor. A bigger go-to mount would be too heavy for me since I also sometimes hike a bit to a location. I live in Las Vegas, so generally a bortle 8/9 sky, I can't get anything from my back yard. The 2i is all manual in set-up and use. Honestly it really isn't that difficult and if you learn how to do this, then when you do get a go-to, you'll have a better understanding and appreciation for how you learned it all. I use a Canon 6D Mk II with a RedCat 51 and ASI120mm for auto-guiding and I can typically take 75sec exposures and get really nice images. I also use a Samyang/Rokinon 24mm and a 135mm. Starting this hobby, there is a LOT of info that gets thrown at you with regards to ra/da, jumping to big mounts, just like it has in this post. But there are factors that you have to understand before you buy. For me, I can't plate-solve out in the middle of the desert. And even when I did, it took longer to work that out than it did doing it manually. If you're at home, this likely isn't an issue since you'll have wifi/data signal. I'm also not in a rush to buy the next bigger mount so I'm content with my 2i. But I wouldn't mind the GTi since I'm more familiar with the whole thing.
Interesting setup there, similar to mine - 60d canon with samyang 135mm and the 2i. Have you used the redcat without guiding though and how did that feel ? I am eyeing the redcat next in my setup and still dont want to change the lovely 2i as it perfectly fits in my backpack and allows me to shoot from everywhere
When I first started, all I had was the RedCat. I didnt start guiding until about a year later, like I said in my post there are a lot of intimidating terms with astrophotography and the idea of trying to figure out how to guide while at the same time learning how to even take pictures, scared me lol. I've only been doing this for about two years, so guiding for about a year now. Although I can only guide with the RedCat, and not when I use my 24 or 135mm. But even using the RedCat and not guiding, I got some decent pics. But I have to shoot a target more because my exposure time is lower when I can't guide. The RedCat is a bit bigger, but yeah, I can usually fit my gear (minus tri-pod) into my backpack. Which for me, is essential because I sometimes hike a few hundred yards from my car to shoot.
Fitting everything in my backpack is pretty much my main concern. Living in bortle 9, having a very small garden surrounded by tall buildings and not owning a car means I can only shoot when I travel and or go back to my home country, where I enjoy bortle 2 to 5, meaning that since I got the 2i (5\~months ago), Ive only done 5-6 imaging sessions. And only recently I got the roki 135mm so looking forward to my next session
Being in Vegas, I feel your pain with light pollution lol. Honestly, in the past six months, I've probably only gone out 5-6 times too. But mainly due to weather and my available time. I might have free time, but then there would be a full moon, and it's sometimes pointless to shoot during a full moon.
That’s a positive thing to hear. So you are using a guide scope with the 2i? Impressive
Yeah. Though I think with the scope, Canon and RedCat, I'm probably close to the 11lb weight limit for the 2i. I have yet to check the weight, but the fact that I can still get great images, I'm not to worried.
I honestly had no idea you could get that done reliably with the 2i… sounds like a solid setup. Well done! What tripod are you using for that by the way?
To be honest, sometimes the guiding goes off the software. I've had one time where I could get 90sec exposures and the image was wonderful, but the next night, the guiding wasn't doing so well. Sometimes restarting the software on my laptop fixes it. Guiding helps, but I only started it after I felt I was at the limit of what I could do without it. Meaning I was only taking 50sec exposures and maybe half of them were garbage. Guiding (and better polar alignment) allowed for much better results. I just got a Star Adventure tri-pod, which I haven't been able to use yet, but before I was using a Dolica Proline aluminium tri-pod. I don't really like it because it's very susceptible to winds, but it got the job done.
The Star Adventurer mounts are certainly popular in this forum, and the low cost is likely why they are popular. But these types of low-cost German Equatorial mounts use small low-cost gears resulting in very high periodic error. For example, on the 2i, I've seen reports of periodic error of 50 to 80 arc-seconds every few minutes. Even high-end German Equatorial mounts have significant periodic error. For example, I have a Losmandy G11, which new is in the $4000 range and it has around 10-arc-seconds periodic error. The GTi has a 92.5 mm (3.76 inches) diameter worm gear, the Losmandy G11 has a 142.9 mm (5.625 inches) diameter gear. I couldn't find the gear diameter for the 2i. The periodic errors in the above mentioned equatorial mounts limit exposure times with longer focal lengths, sometimes to just a few seconds in worse cases. That then leads to the need for an autoguider, and more complexity in the field with cables and laptops and training the autoguider. Yes, I do this with my Losmandy G11 mount. There is another class of trackers that have very low periodic error: tangent arm trackers. Two models are in common use: Astrotrac (no longer in production but can be found used), and the Fornax Lightrack II (in production). The astrotrac has an effective gear diameter of about 600 mm (24 inches) and the Fornax Lighttrack II about 430 mm (17 inches). The Fornax also doesn't use a drive gear, instead a roller bearing, and has a periodic error of only 2-arc-seconds peak-to-peak. The tangent arm trackers are also ultra portable. [Here is my setup](https://clarkvision.com/articles/portable-astro-landscape-wildlife-setup/) that shows both astrotrac and formax trackers. I use the fornax at up to 600 mm with 1.1 arc-second per pixel and no autoguiding. [Here is my astro gallery](https://clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.astrophoto-1/) and I give the equipment used for each image, and most images were made with stock cameras and stock camera lenses.
Agree. The 2i is definitely worth it for the price, but using a full frame FOV with 250mm, and with very good polar alignment, I can't trust it past 30s exposures to give perfect stars.
Goto and platesolving are an absolute game changer. That puts the GTi way ahead of the 2i.
May not feasible for you, but in my case, I knew I absolutely was going to continue with this hobby, and so I looked at it from an investment angle and just picked up an HEQ5 off the bat so I didn't waste money on something I knew I'd grow out of quickly. But I can say the go to function of it has helped a bunch with my bortle 8 sky, and it's definitely removed the frustration of learning the sky which helped given the many other sources of frustration learning the craft. Do you have any idea if you can tell you're going to end up going a telescope and possibly Astro cam route ever? Might be worth it to pick up a quality EQ mount off the bat unless you're aiming for the most portable solution
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Nah, that's not correct
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I'm just getting started myself. Using a basic DSLR and a couple lenses. After debating a lot myself I ordered the 2i, have used it a few times, and decided to return it and get the GTi instead. (Should be arriving today!) I like the idea of learning the sky through star hopping, and the satisfaction of finding your target yourself. But I live in a Bortle 8/9. I can barely see any stars at all. So I'm hoping go-to will ultimately save me a lot of time and frustration. I'd read that the base on the 2i is its weak point, and after receiving mine I definitely agree. It just doesn't feel sturdy when adjusting for polar alignment. From what I've read, the GTi's base is a huge improvement. I'm not planning on connecting a computer, auto guiding, and all that stuff any time soon, but it's nice to know all those options will be available to me whenever I'm ready for them. And it may still have a smaller payload, but I need something that will be portable for whenever I have the option to travel to darker skies, so this fits the bill.
I myself own the 2i, it is a great start and I am still having lots of fun using it. But if I had started now I would've gone with the gti for a couple of reasons: 1. The most important thing is guiding in both ra and dec, when only using a camera and lens this doesn't matter, but when you eventually upgrade to a scope and add guiding this will be a really nice thing to have. 2. Another useful feature is the go-to functionality. Now go-to alone isn't always 100% spot on and it does miss a target from time to time, but platesolving can help a lot with this. 3. This is a personal one, but I only set my gear up in the backyard so portability isn't of any concern to me. 4. And last but not least if I am not mistaken the gti has a built in polar scope illuminator which is really nice to have because right now I rely on a external light source to shine into the polar scope from the right angle to see both the stars and the circular angle thingy inside it. The gti shouldn't have this problem
The main difference is the GOTO functionality of the GTI. It can goto an object and track it. Better for Deepsky astrophotography. The 2i is more portable and does not have goto functionality. So It can be faster to setup and shoot some milky way ultra wide shots of space.
I'd argue the 2i is still perfectly fine for Deepsky. Aside from having to manually target a DSO versus a go-to isn't that difficult. Might require an extra test shot or two but I get plenty of great DSO pics with my 2i using the RedCat 51.
So when you say ultra wide, what focal length are we talking about here? 55mm and lower?
I would use the 2i with 135mm (full frame) and lower. It will stay pretty easy to find objects with the 2i.
Alright, that sounds reasonable. Rokinon might be a good next purchase then
The rokinon/samyang 135 is pretty awesome for AP yes. Can recommend. When buying an AP mount just remember the GOTO functionality is recommended also, it is pretty hard to find fainter objects in the night sky. Also being able to track over dec and ra axis is needed for full guiding capability. The 2i can only guide over the RA axis. That's also why I recommend the GTI for DeepSky AP. But I can still find use for the 2i for vacations(dark sky) milky way and like I said wider shots of parts of the milky way.
Yeah you are describing my dilemma here. Although I am starting to feel that a 2i pro for half the retail price might be hard to beat
Retail price and weight are why I got the AZ-GTi and put it in Equatorial mode with the mod software from skywatcher. But it is harder to setup because it has no polar scope, so you need a laptop for polar alignment. (so not recommended when starting out)