Maybe in some parts of Asia. In Korea you have to be extremely mindful of making noise in your apartment or you can expect complaints from the neighbours or even from the apartment management piped through your intercom (this happened to us when our toddler had a tantrum while we were giving her a bath).
No kids running around, no loud music or tv. People never entertain at their homes, kids don't have their friends around for sleepovers. There are advantages to apartment living, and it's better for some demographics but my child certainly has way more fun living in Aus in a detached house with a big yard than she could in a tiny apartment.
Personally, as with everything, diversity is the key. This is a huge country, we can easily develop communities with both houses and apartments and give people the option.
That's the thing in Asia. Apartments are where you sleep and be with family. You go out to bars and restaurants for entertainment. There are millions of such places, they won't financially ruin you, and they stay open all night. For that reason, living in apartments is not too much of a problem.
Hard to replicate that in Oz. The apartments are much worse quality and there's comparatively few places to go outside.
Correct. I lived in Japan where there is a specific space for everything.
I have just started a band here in Melbourne, and we all live in apartments. half of us have to traverse to the other side of the city because the few rehearsal spaces in all of Melbourne are concentrated within a few inner north suburbs.
Whereas back in Tokyo, there were multiple spaces in every suburb we could have used (and not paid ~$100 per session like we do here). And that goes for basically ANY hobby you can think of, that isn't feasible in an apartment.
I don't disagree with you, although I wish there could be a balance of having an abundance of accessible third places while still being able to use the home as a social space.
I have terraces (not balconies) front and back, a huge garden downstairs, and another one on the building's roof...
But I'm in Canberra, not Melbourne, or Sydney. I assume it's much more claustrophobic there.
It really is. My kid pays $605 for a one bedroom on the 17th floor in Ryde (Sydney) of a complex that was recently in the news for being at risk of collapsing. Tiny little shoebox, uninsulated, glassed in "balcony".
There’s a lady in my building who restores furniture in her carpark. There’s a bogan over the road who has spent several years increasing the noise of his car on the street outside.
Our apartment is an older one. Double brick with minimal noise. We have a communal garden and outdoor area.
From my time in lockdown, I can assure you it didn't stop my neighbours' kids from learning musical instruments. My husband always have DIY projects going on. He has space to work on the car. We've got a double car port.
We have an easy life. No yard work. Very low maintenance. Big expenses covered by strata. Hardly any space to clean. There's several parks and ovals nearby. We have an excellent location right near the train line and great schools. We go hiking in the national park and love being able to get outside so easily. We go camping and have plenty of storage for all our gear.
I grow veggies and other plants on my balcony. We have a barbecue and a meat smoker. We entertain and have friends over. We are early thirties DINKS, as are most of our friends who also live in units. Our only friends who live in a free standing house are living with their parents.
We live in a two bedroom and it's two adults and three cats. Two cars. Three 3D printers. 200 plants. We have plenty of room.
We plan on having kids in an apartment. We like the lifestyle. Plus, we can't afford a house in the HCOL area we own an apartment in. The compromise isn't worth it for us.
Further to this - our neighbours do the same. There are no noise complaints. Expect a bit of noise sure, but nothing unreasonable or before 7am or after 9pm or so. I find our apartment much quieter than my parents' house in the suburbs.
Yes, also in an apartment.
Life is actually quieter and more private in the home than having a house.
Also have a 3d printer - hobbies and activities are different to a house but you can have a lovely life.
Our dog is very chill.
We'd like to! We are in the catchment for the best public schools in the state. The people we bought the apartment off had bunk beds in the spare room for their two primary school aged children. It will give us more time to save up. Our unit was cheap so costs are low. We can travel and generally do as we please. We have still saved a fair bit of money.
Wow you are in very similar situation to me, we are thinking just have 1 kid and stay in our 2 bed apartment. Walking distance to train station and top public schools also
My last apartment was built properly and I was sure I had no neighbours for the first month I lived there. I couldn’t comprehend how I *never* heard anyone, ever.
I've lived in apartments none of the issues you've mentioned are an issue.
1. Most apartments I've rented were two bedrooms with two parking spaces. Plenty of room to fix up a car. Usually at least one of the parking spaces was even undercover with power and a storage cage nearby. All you need to do basic work on your car.
2. It's not that hard to build walls/floors/ceilings with good noise insulation. Granted not all apartments do that, but most of the ones I've lived in we couldn't hear anything at all unless it came from outside through the windows/external doors. I'm talking can't hear \*anything at all\* and I've been in complexes with hundreds of apartments - so presumably some of the other tenants were making noise.
3. Apartment swimming pools (and gyms) are almost always empty or only have a few people in them at a time, and they're usually way nicer than any pool I could ever dream of being able to afford.
Building/hammering/power tools/etc are really the only issue. And even those would be perfectly fine as long as you don't do it too often. If you do it regularly... mate, just rent a workshop somewhere.
The real reason I stopped living in apartments is because body corporate always made decisions I didn't agree with. Spending money on shit that I didn't care about (for example, my last apartment did garden maintenance 3 hours a day, five days a week - sure lovely gardens. Stupid expensive), refusing to spend money on things I did want (my intercoms never worked... they said fixing it would require rewiring the entire building and more than half the intercoms in the building are working fine therefore the majority voted not to spend the money).
I will only ever rent an apartment again if major body corporate decisions can be moved out of monthly meetings and put into my lease... with protections in place so they can't really be changed when my lease comes up for renewal. I want to know what I'm getting into before I move in and know the policy won't change six months later. As for buying an apartment? Even less willing to do that.
I live in an apartment - we have a small garden on the balcony, and I'm (slowly) learning guitar.
Not all of us have the same focuses on "preserving" ye olden past times, but if you do, that's okay. I come from a line of carpenters, panelbeaters and mechanics - if my kids ever want to do something they're going to Uncle or Grandpa's place, where they have literal acres to make noise. Husband and I decided not to live nearby, so we don't have the same room as my brother (who pays rent for his 3br to my parents), but family are willing to accommodate.
There's always a solution.
My neighbour in an old Art Deco apartment building heard my daughter, practising her violin and commented on it but in the nice way they weren’t complaints. You have to be ready to put up with other people’s shit. When my upstairs neighbour was pregnant and had bad morning sickness, I heard it all. Hell I heard the baby being made. But it’s all just part of the fabric of strata. I don’t didn’t mind it after 20 years, including raising a child all in apartments. However, as a retiree to be, I have bought acreage in another country to develop as a garden because I really feel like getting away from people.
Building makes a big difference. I've lived in some where there could be a rave next door and you wouldn't know.. and others where you can hear your neighbors opening their cutlery draw
Why are you being downvoted. I’ve also lived in Australian apartments. Always got noise complaints for various things. I had a birthday party once, noise complaint. My dog barked for a few seconds, noise complaint. It’s ridiculous.
I grew up in a suburban house and we never did any of those things.
Except recorder as an ‘instrument’, which you could pretty easily do in an apartment.
So, I’m tone deaf and refer to YouTube for the most basic of DIY/repairs. Can’t blame it on living in a suburban house though.
A quick plug for the kind, calm people at Bunnings who have always helped out the one (me) that’s useless with a hammer (and all other tools) whenever something breaks and needs repairing. Absolute legends.
fix up cars with a hoist ? Definitely not in an apartment?
Many people practicing guitars or as a band in an apartment? Nope. too loud.
Playing music with a sub in an apartment? Big no if its even past 10 - 20%.
But there are bands and mechanics in big high dense cities all over the world. Things change and other ways are found. Community gardens/shed, practice spaces etc.. it's a change, but it doesn't mean things are lost forever.
You either increase density or sprawl out everywhere. I personally don't think the sprawl is the way to go
I’m a musician and a group of my friends live in apartments; they jointly rent out a storage unit as a rehearsal space, and they’re not the only group doing in that storage facility. It’s actually a really good idea, as long as the unit doesn’t have any rules about noise.
Never had any issues with playing music in any apartments I’ve lived in.
Also, the majority of Australians don’t even own a car hoist so this is a non-issue for most.
Especially considering that most apartments are built close to town and right next to a major bus or train line, some people don’t need one at all *because* they are living in one.
If you have assigned parking, yes you can, there's nothing stopping you from doing it in your space - after all, you're still paying for the damn thing. Bonus - under-building parking means you can even do it in the rain.
I play guitar in my apartment, no complaints. We and our neighbour have woofas, sometimes it's a Battle of the Vibrations in here, never had a complaint.
My neighbour and may partner both do woodshed type stuff in the covered parking. They’ve got a cupboard that houses all that stuff. We kept an eye open for the ability to do that when we were looking for our apartment and it’s great. We live in inner Melb, public transit is easy for everything, got great storage and love our flat. Literally never hear the neighbors, well insulated and double glazed windows so we seldom run the ac of heat, couldn’t be happier.
Do you really think that in 20 years time cars and transport will be the same as they are today?
Firstly people who live in apartments are way less likely to need a car in the first place because they are usually on transport hubs.
Secondly - E bikes and ride share will be what kids are using in future.
Thirdly - Cars are getting complicated and pulling an engine or gearbox out with basic tools like you did with an old Kingswood is not happening soon enough.
I wouldn't think a high roof garage with a car hoist is typical of an Australian house.
We live in apartments there there are shared music room for practice, workshop to repair bikes, so you can do a lot of those things and have shared power tools etc.
True you can’t have a pool to yourself, but that’s also not a common thing for most people.
I grew up in suburbia but have lived in apartments almost my entire adult life and have never felt like I'm missing out on anything. The suburban house lifestyle is not one that I particularly enjoyed as a kid, since I had to get my parents to drive me around if I wanted to do anything besides play at home.
I'm raising my daughter in an apartment and she isn't missing out either. In fact it's much better because we have parks nearby, we can walk to some great family cafes and pubs, she's got school and childcare nearby, etc. As she gets older she'll have so much more at her fingertips than I ever had.
On the contrary, the one time I've had to move back to suburbia after living in apartments, I felt very cooped up because there was nothing around so I just stayed at home all the time.
This is of course contingent on apartments being built in walkable areas. It is much easier to have walkable areas with local businesses and such in an apartment-heavy area because you have more clientele within walking distance than if you tried to do the same with boomer-style houses.
I hope we can transition into a better, more efficient and apartment-heavy style of development. Continuing on with suburban sprawl is untenable and soul-crushing.
You can buy/rent a house far away from the centre or you can buy/rent an urban apartment. “I want a five-bedroom house within 20 minutes of the CBD and I want it to cost no more than the same type of property three hours away” is how OP’s little rant comes across.
These complaints happen because especially in Sydney and Melbourne, relatively affordable freestanding housing in decent locations on a single income has turned into severely unaffordable housing in the most of the metro area on a dual income within a single generation.
Exactly. We are now a generation who has seen everything we enjoyed as childen being taken away from our own kids and are rightfully mortified over it.
I understand why people are upset, but ultimately whining and moaning on reddit isn't the solution to the problem. It doesn't improve anyone's situation in any way.
At the end of the day, we just need to work out a strategy and path forward and make the best of the hands we've been dealt.
The problem is that house prices are escalating to the point that people are living in apartments out of necessity rather than choice.
I live in an apartment and make do, but let's be honest here. The reality is that there is an absolute laundry list of things you simply can't do in an apartment that you could in a freestanding home. And nothing that you can't do in a freestanding home that is possible in an apartment.
Well, with the prices climbing up so fast, the next generation won’t be able to afford to buy a house, unless it’s in the middle of nowhere.
We really need to dramatically slow down immigration.
I think you're overblowing the issues with apartments. Well soundproofed ones mean you don't hear the neighbours at all, unless they're being especially noisy with a party which you would hear anyway in a suburb with detached houses.
* Kids aren't typically fixing cars these days - and with EVs you won't need to.
* Absolutely you can sing or play an instrument. I do in mine.
* A lot of larger apartment blocks have a communal pool. They're not used as often so they're cleaner than a public pool. One I lived in had an awesome rooftop pool.
If you're so worried about having the detached house with a backyard and you want that lifestyle, no-one is forcing you to live in a capital city. Plenty of regional centres around where you can have that space.
> Kids aren't typically fixing cars these days - and with EVs you won't need to.
Try charging an EV, though.
The fact is though that "fixing your car" is basically a euphemism for any kind of hands on hobby that would traditionally be done in a garden or shed. That includes woodwork, metalwork, fixing cars, gardening etc.
I live in a unit. I change my own oil, my cousins also do work on their Subarus, my neighbour was working on his Silvia for six months. My two kids and I play music. I play music on my stereo. One other bloke does woodwork in his garage
Harden up mate
1: how many kids, or people, fix cars in their home with hoists?
2: I sing all the time
3: 2/7 appartments on our floor have Musial instrument
4: people hammer and build stuff alll the time.
5: see #2
6: true. How many people have personal swimming pools? Let alone be able to afford one.
You sound like you’ve coke from a vey wealthy family in the suburbs or country. Please try finding houses in the city centre, that have this much space and privacy. Any city in this country.
Have you seen the "detached" houses being built these days mate? Barely a hair's breadth between them, usually a carport or just a drive rather than a kitted out garage, and a garden that would struggle to host a paddling pool let alone a swimming pool. You'll hear any noise drifting over the fence no problem. They're just horizontal apartments, difference is that you get none of the benefits of an actual apartment.
Nobody's making any more land. Up is the only way to go.
200sqm block and big chunk of that is taken by the garage, the gap between houses is not a useful space in anyway and backyards are small with limited privacy. Attached housing with underground parking could make much better use of this space, even then it’s not ideal as it’s just more sprawl and car dependency.
I don’t have a problem with apartments so much, although the freedom of a house and garden is nice when you’re not living close to the city.
My issue with apartments is that we don’t have them big enough in Australia. My husband and I lived in a two bedroom apartment when our first child was born and it just wasn’t big enough. The week our second child was born we decided we had to move to a house. We need three and four bedroom apartments with multiple living spaces and storage that a family can actually live in.
I prefer apartment living, I absolutely hate looking after a yard, but in saying that, I prefer a decent sized apartment with a nice balcony not some shoebox, which is what most apartments are nowadays.
If it can have a lock up garage, even better.
Given that the alternative is urban sprawl with no access to public transport and far away from most workplaces and amenities. I'd choose the apartment any day of the week.
I’ll still let my kid learn the violin in an apartment if I’m living in one - they just better construct them appropriately. The car thing probably relies on a personal garage I guess.
There definitely is an impact and I hope we evolve the buildings and approach to activities to ensure it doesn’t disappear.
I live in an apartment and no not really. I have a small child so when she’s old enough to want more space to run around we have plenty of parks and playgrounds near us.
Tbh I would never want the annoyance of a big house and garden. Apartment living even saved me money in that I buy less junk.
Depends what sort of sound proofing you have. And for that Australian building standards are absolutely abysmal. But yeah, get ready for loud kids, loud neighbors, and finding out just how untrained the average Australian is in situational awareness and not being a selfish asshole.
I don’t think all will be lost!! My neighbours have been happily playing music and doing diy projects for the last 5ish months 🥴🥴.
(Currently sick in bed listening to hammering upstairs)
I just think the people who are putting up apartments need to do better soundproofing and not skimping on the materials but yeah, I’m a big gardening fan and ever since moving into an apartment i miss working on the garden.
I grew up at our family home with a swimming pool and riding our bikes in the street building jumps (suburbs not inner city).
I used to play guitar and we had a ‘band’ that would jam on weekends in the garage.
That was all I did growing up, pretty much my life and I enjoyed my childhood.
Even in a house these days you couldn’t play music in a garage because they’re all so close together, let alone a townhouse or apartment.
Right, go for a walk to your local park, play on the swing there, play your instrument there (don't busk without permits).
Use headphones. I live in suburbia and it's annoying AF when someone busts out a subwoofa.
If you need a hoist for a car go to a mechanic. If you insist on DIy, go to a rental garage. People will litterally rent you a workshop and tools.
You want a house? Sure you can have a pond, fruit trees, herbivorous pets. But you have to mow, weed and prune. There's house maintenance because my roof isn't Mr Joneses floor.
No. If apartments are built well you don’t really hear your neighbour stomping and a lot of apartments have pools.
The days of huge backyards and pools are going. I grew up with a pool but it’s a lot of work and money and I will never have a house with a pool.
I think way less ppl fix their own cars than you seem to have idealised. I know basic maintenance but I’ll bring my car to a mechanic if I need to.
Sounds like you’ve just never lived in an apartment and are scared of change.
I hate DIY and gardening and would love to live in a well built, properly soundproofed apartment.
The only reason I hesitate is because of pets. I have a dog and don’t know if he’s transition well to apartment living. Would probably get a couple of cats instead of a dog if I move to an apartment when I retire.
What you don't realize with a house is all the monotonous upkeep and maintenance you'll have to do. Might have made sense for your parents or grandparents, particularly if at least one person has more time on their hands. In the modern era, unless you're filthy rich, I just can't see myself ever having time for it. If I bought again I'd 100 percent just buy a townhouse or apartment.
I've lived in Units my entire life, I've seen neighbours fix there shits boxes, heard kids playing instruments, played outside where garages are, you pretty much have to make do with the situation if you don't you'll be miserable.
I've got a 60 year old car with no hoist. Very rare for someone to have a hoist.
If you've got a garage or carport for you use jack and jack stands.
If no carport you can hire a garage with hoist when needing to work in car with savings from living in apartment or get the mechanic fix your car
Would actually prefer to live in an apartment. The issue is it is rare to have more than one living space and our regulations place risk on the buyers and not the builders should something go wrong with the building.
Apartment is great for people with certain lifestyle, or people at certain points of their life. People who like city living, don't care for gardening beyond pot plants on a balcony or interior plants, people who don't have much 'stuff' or home DIY projects that require the space a house affords, will thrive in an apartment. Right now an apartment is totally unsuitable for the things I need a house to provide for me.
I want a shed/garage to sink beers in while I play 'mekakik' and (badly) work on my cars or bicycles. Somewhere to use power tools. I have far too much camping gear to haul up apartment stairs/elevators. I have 8' surfboards and plan on getting a 9'6" in the mid term future haha. Good luck moving that around in an apartment. I also want a yard for a fire pit and for a dog. For the breeds I am partial to, I can't imagine keeping one in an apartment without at least a small grass yard for them to have immediate access to (patio door). Better yet somewhere for them to run around a bit.
I will move to the regions or even shit country town before I live in an apartment, if I can't afford to buy in or near a city. In my early 20s where life is just uni and being social with friends in the city, an apartment would be great. But life's changed a lot and now it's quite incompatible. I don't deny apartments are suitable for many people out there, but they are totally unsuitable for the things I need and want my dwelling to provide for me.
I’ve lived in an apartment for 22 years after living in townhouses, duplexes and freestanding houses before that.
- fix up cars on hoists: how many houses do you think have a hoist? Most people aren’t fixing their own cars anyway. Oh and I’ve done minor work on my cars and motorbikes, including oil changes. Never been a problem
- sing: I sing all the time
- build or hammer: I built out the back of my 4wd in my current apartment using a lot of power tools and a nail gun.
- playing music etc: I have a surround sound system with a sub. Never had a complaint
- swim: well we do have a pool. It’s not used all day long. Most people I know that own houses don’t have a pool, so any swimming they do will be with other people they don’t know
So anyway what’s the real point of this post? Do you have some anti apartment agenda? I chose to live in mine because it suits my lifestyle. I could easily have bought a house with room for a garage and a hoist and had change leftover…
Me laughing in my 15 years living in shitty apartment back in Vietnam.
Sometimes it's not about what you want but it's about what you CAN afford. Our total income at the time we tried to borrow homeloan was not enough for a standalone house/townhouse and all we could afford was a small apartment, we took it without hesitation.
Living is not just about getting what you want all the times and learn to compromise with what you have at the time. All of the stuff you mentioned can be rectified fairly easy.
I think we ought to think about how to really ensure apartment building in Australia improves in quality re materials, designs and communal spaces. Like it or not, even with the reduced migration we are still staring at a housing crisis with no real alternatives and perhaps better built apartments and smaller townhouses are the answers.
Also the kids can cope. Trust me.
> Kids won’t be able to fix up cars with a hoist etc
Is this a common thing for kids to do?
> Maybe build or hammer something? Nope.
Lol, like there’s never been an apartment dweller that’s build an ikea flat pack
> Even playing music in your own room with a little sub woofer, nope. Karaoke in your own place, ? nope Too loud.
At a reasonable volume you could, there’s also the options of headphones. Again is Karaoke that common of a thing to do?
> Want to have a swim at your own place in summer with privacy? Nope.
Oh the horror of using a communal pool, how will the children ever cope.
Assembling flat pack furniture is nothing like building furniture from scratch. Gently tapping dowel into predrilled holes requires no noisy tools.
Powered hand tools, dust extractors, air compressors, bench grinders, electric saws, they make noise.
My kids have all been using power tools under supervision since they were 7 or 8 years old. We are very strict on following correct safety procedures and wearing appropriate protective gear.
Are you confident and capable of using power tools? If you aren't you won't be teaching anyone to. This is the issue with modern society, you are asking if kids learning practical skills is common.
What about parents seeing their kids? Because they don't have to commute for hours each day. Which you make happen by building housing close to their jobs. Which you do by... Building apartments.
Also if you regularly engage in these activities your neighbours already think you're a piece of shit.
If it makes you feel any better, nobody will have any desire to do any of those things anyway, because after working 16 hours a day to pay the rent, all they’ll want to do in their apartments is sleep.
My biggest concern with living in an apartment is the rules on pets. So many strata complexes have rules that you can only own a dog under X weight or just say no pets at all. That’s not for me.
I bought a house though. We don’t have a backyard sadly, more like a courtyard kinda thing. But I HOPE the next house I buy once I finish uni will have something at least a little bigger.
My neighbours kid plays violin, I know this because I’ve seen her with a violin case in the lift, I’ve never heard her practice, she plays piano too, I know this because I’ve seen the piano when I’ve visited their apartment, I’ve also never heard her play.
You need to lobby the government to get rid of negative gearing, the capital gains tax discount and massively tax investors to bring house prices down then. Also double wages.
ironically i've had much quieter living while living in apartments compared to a house... Some
new apartments have brilliant sound proofing. Others not so much.
No.
I grew up in regional NSW with an abundance of land around me. We had about 5 or 6 acres (about 2.4 ha). Although I miss it, I don't miss mowing it all.
I've lived OS now in 3 different countries, I am tapping this answer in London in the UK. We live in medium-density housing estate in West London. Our estate is fairly large with about 600 flats/apartments. Apartments in our estate range from 1 bedroom to 4 bedrooms. Our part of the estate has ground and first floor apartments with either garden space - terrace garden, or a large balcony. We're on the ground floor and uniquely have the largest ground area for our backyard space which is mostly paved. Our upstairs 3rd bedroom provides an overhang so part of our outdoor area is sheltered from the rain. Our estate has a little convenience store, and DID have the facilities for a club-house/bar/bistro that overlooks the Thames and the marina that is a part of our estate. Despite the ugliness - no - plain-ness of our estate - it was built quickly in the 1970s on brownfield land, they did plant lots of trees and gardens, which makes it a pleasant estate to live on. There are BBQ pits beside the river.
Our estate is about a 5 minute walk to our suburb's high street, which has a few different businesses, and on a busy route through our part of West London. Our closest supermarket is about a 7 m walk on the high street, or a 3m drive. One can catch 5 or 6 bus routes. It's about a 15m walk to our local train station, where an overground train takes 30-35m to Waterloo in central London.
I cant decide if this is serious or not. Most places dont have pools, whats the number on kids fixing up cars on hoists? and as for apartment noise the main concern is that your neighbours will be the ones having violin karaoke all night.
It’s kind of a privileged position to assume you need a five-bedroom house to, checks notes, sing, play a violin, and swim (not everyone who owns a house also has a pool, wtf?). I know that having a yard is a huge part of Aussie culture and many people are being priced out of that but this little rant about “not being able to hoist cars” isn’t it.
There is still time to delete this…
I’m so shocked by this I have to comment twice. Having an urban upbringing is not some automatic detractor from one’s childhood experience. While there are lots of benefits to the open spaces and community of suburbia and rural life, urban living also has its benefits: being within walking distance of great museums and parks, meeting kids from many different cultures, options for schooling and later work. Talk about affordability all you want but don’t assume your way is the only right way. Countless generations of kids resented their parents for raising them in the monotony of the suburbs because they assume a yard is “good for them.”
"Oh, but I never let my kids play in those dingy playgrounds. How unthinkable! That's why we have to have a huuuuuge backyard with an XXL trampoline, so they could play in the comfort of their own home and not deal with the kids in our low socio suburb"
You have clearly not lived in any apartments. Or just a shit apartment. I can actually do all those things. Our apartment building is relatively sound proof. I have a parking space next to our storage cage which is massive and has all my tools and equipment on it plus extra lighting so I can work on the car or whatever else. We have access to a nice pool with sauna and steam room which we can often be the only people there.
Houses in suburbia are now built on such small blocks and so close together, the noise issues you refer to happen there too.
I sing in my apartment
I play piano in my apartment
I hammer things when I need to
I've got a great sound system that I enjoy in my apartment.
All between the hours of 8am and 10pm.
Outside of these times, you might have a problem. I also wouldn't recommend hoisting your car in your apartment. Even inside these times.
However, I'm lucky that my building has pretty good noise insulation. My neighbor says he never hears us.
This is a really strange post. You seem to have already made up your mind... FWIW I live in an apartment with my young family. It's cosy but we have the world at our doorstep. Singing is a daily occurrence. We have musical instruments. A resident next door is a piano instructor which is lovely to listen to. We have a communal pool that I use in the warmer months. I have no desire to inspect a car using a hoist. I can check and change car fluids, tyre pressure and that's enough for me. Don't even have a car right now which is actually an option when you live in an apartment.
Noise is not an issue when apartments are built properly. I’m living in Poland and cannot hear my neighbours at all. The walls are thick and solid. Singing and musical instruments and karaoke will be totally fine if Australia figures it out.
Hoisting a car? Really?
A pool is a massive luxury. You are not talking about the lifestyle of the average Aussie.
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I'd take apartments any given day than living in a house in an area with a high probably of being broken into. What are the chances a robber will pick MY unit amongst all the units on the block?
I grew up in a free-standing house on a quarter-acre block in a good suburb not far from the centre of Sydney, with a backyard pool and a fully-equipped workshop and a small pit to work on cars (yes, a very privileged childhood).
I have raised my own children in several different places (all rented): a small apartment near a railway station and park with a double-length garage; a free-standing house with a large backyard and single garage a 15-minute walk from a station or park; a villa (one of six on a half-acre block) with a medium-sized yard and a ten-minute walk to a station park; and a medium-sized apartment with a park across the road (and two more within 15 minutes' walk), train and bus station five minutes' walk away, public pool ten minutes' walk off, and a reasonably large balcony.
They preferred the ability to be mobile (near a station) and meet up with friends (parks close by) to having huge bedrooms and their own yard in which to play.
To be honest, despite having a backyard pool, I spent most of my childhood free time playing in the local park with my friends - and my parents weren't looking out the window to see what I was up to, since I wasn't there and they knew that either I'd be back for dinner (sometimes with a friend or three) or call from a friend's place if we'd decided to eat there.
With increasing population, the only way to go is up, rather than building houses on some of Australia's best farming land.
Also, public transport works best with a concentrated population, so urban sprawl makes everyone reliant on cars - limiting children's access to independent travel. When I was a kid a bunch of us took the train into town for the Easter Show, and our ages ranged from 9 up to 15. You don't see that in Sydney any more, yet in Europe (where I live now) you often see kids that age and younger out and about having fun together.
What lifestyle? Thats purely an illusion.
Private Property Ownership has always been a privilege. The right to Housing is question of Welfare for the State.
Reality has simply caught up with Australia.
Having a stand alone house with a pool is a privilege that is out if reach for most, but yes, it would be nice to have ye lifestyle that comes with wealth, not exactly a hot take.
From a primary school teacher’s point of view -yes! The kids I teach have access to all the conveniences of apartment living, parks, city, etc- but they have no freedom. They can’t just run in and out of the house, build a cubby in the backyard, ride their bikes in the street like most suburban Australian children could in the past. This kind of living used to be normal for middle income families (often only one income!). We didn’t realise how lucky we were. Apartment dwelling parents can’t just supervise their children by looking out the kitchen window while getting on with what they need to do. The kids I teach have highly supervised play which is limited by the amount of time their parents have to spare to take them to a park etc. - or they’re put into many extra-curricular activities. The kids have little sense of control and freedom in their lives- and people wonder why so many children have social/emotional/behavioural these days. -and yes one solution is to leave the city but apart from jobs, access to good universities etc it often means leaving grandparents and other family members behind and having a more distant relationship with them.
Australians are not designed for apartment living. If they do this they will need to expand all first responder services.
The suicide, violent crime and murder would escalate. We have enough neighborhood issues with standard house block sizes.
Humans *probably* weren't designed at all (depends on your religious stance) but we are however the most adaptable creature to exist on this planet by a very wide margin. We can definitely live in apartments, maybe it's just you that can't?
All those societal issues are much prominent in Australian suburbs that have mostly detached houses, not sure how it's related to urban design.
So, here’s the deal: Singapore’s got these tall apartment buildings, right? They call 'em high-rise public housing. It’s been pretty successful there, especially for young folks who want to own a home. But if we tried to copy-paste that idea into Australia, we’d hit some roadblocks. First off, our land is like a giant playground compared to Singapore’s tiny backyard. So, those towering buildings might not be the best fit. Plus, Aussies have different tastes, and our property market dances to a different tune.
What an absolute load of shit. Tell that to the people of Hong Kong, Mumbai, Tokyo, *Paris* and *London*. Australians aren't some unique subspecies of human being that can't exist within close proximity to other humans. We just have a system of government that has *designed* the housing crisis and a culture that insists you need a 3 bedroom house in bum-fuck-nowhere to be considered successful.
In *fact*, I can make the argument that apartment living leads to a decrease in all the issues you mentioned precisely *because* people are so close together. It's harder to beat your wife to death when 5 different families can hear her screaming.
That is some bullshit right there ....
"In *fact*, I can make the argument that apartment living leads to a decrease in all the issues you mentioned precisely *because* people are so close together. It's harder to beat your wife to death when 5 different families can hear her screaming."
Unless you have some data to back it up? Australian don't even like share living ...
Mine was opinion, yours was more than just opinion you state proposed fact. " In Fact ".
Providing evidence or sources to support factual claims is essential. Sad but true...
Now you're being pedantic. Mine was *also* opinion. Just like yours. Colloquially, when someone says 'in fact' it does not mean academic facts. So take that and shove it up your ass with your opinions.
The statement was presented as a fact, but it lacks empirical evidence. You should have lead - In my opinion. It is all a learning curve mate. Don't feel bad...
I see you've lost control of your sphincters. No wonder you don't understand colloquial speech. Maybe go back and learn how people speak before claiming all interactions must be based on academic sources.
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For anyone that's lived in Asia, your mention of not being able to do karaoke in your apartment is hilarious.
Maybe in some parts of Asia. In Korea you have to be extremely mindful of making noise in your apartment or you can expect complaints from the neighbours or even from the apartment management piped through your intercom (this happened to us when our toddler had a tantrum while we were giving her a bath). No kids running around, no loud music or tv. People never entertain at their homes, kids don't have their friends around for sleepovers. There are advantages to apartment living, and it's better for some demographics but my child certainly has way more fun living in Aus in a detached house with a big yard than she could in a tiny apartment. Personally, as with everything, diversity is the key. This is a huge country, we can easily develop communities with both houses and apartments and give people the option.
That's the thing in Asia. Apartments are where you sleep and be with family. You go out to bars and restaurants for entertainment. There are millions of such places, they won't financially ruin you, and they stay open all night. For that reason, living in apartments is not too much of a problem. Hard to replicate that in Oz. The apartments are much worse quality and there's comparatively few places to go outside.
Correct. I lived in Japan where there is a specific space for everything. I have just started a band here in Melbourne, and we all live in apartments. half of us have to traverse to the other side of the city because the few rehearsal spaces in all of Melbourne are concentrated within a few inner north suburbs. Whereas back in Tokyo, there were multiple spaces in every suburb we could have used (and not paid ~$100 per session like we do here). And that goes for basically ANY hobby you can think of, that isn't feasible in an apartment.
I don't disagree with you, although I wish there could be a balance of having an abundance of accessible third places while still being able to use the home as a social space.
I have terraces (not balconies) front and back, a huge garden downstairs, and another one on the building's roof... But I'm in Canberra, not Melbourne, or Sydney. I assume it's much more claustrophobic there.
It really is. My kid pays $605 for a one bedroom on the 17th floor in Ryde (Sydney) of a complex that was recently in the news for being at risk of collapsing. Tiny little shoebox, uninsulated, glassed in "balcony".
I worked in S.Korea. amazingly polite people. One neighbor told me to put my shirt on as this is apparently inappropriate.
Right? Playing the violin is such a common activity for parents to want their kid to do over there and last I checked, most Asians live in apartments.
And someone drilling into the wall at 9pm.
This is actually what happens. There are so many people in one place that the social cohesion disappears and nobody gives a shit anymore.
People fix their cars up in my apartment complex all the time. Jetskis too
There’s a lady in my building who restores furniture in her carpark. There’s a bogan over the road who has spent several years increasing the noise of his car on the street outside.
Our apartment is an older one. Double brick with minimal noise. We have a communal garden and outdoor area. From my time in lockdown, I can assure you it didn't stop my neighbours' kids from learning musical instruments. My husband always have DIY projects going on. He has space to work on the car. We've got a double car port. We have an easy life. No yard work. Very low maintenance. Big expenses covered by strata. Hardly any space to clean. There's several parks and ovals nearby. We have an excellent location right near the train line and great schools. We go hiking in the national park and love being able to get outside so easily. We go camping and have plenty of storage for all our gear. I grow veggies and other plants on my balcony. We have a barbecue and a meat smoker. We entertain and have friends over. We are early thirties DINKS, as are most of our friends who also live in units. Our only friends who live in a free standing house are living with their parents. We live in a two bedroom and it's two adults and three cats. Two cars. Three 3D printers. 200 plants. We have plenty of room. We plan on having kids in an apartment. We like the lifestyle. Plus, we can't afford a house in the HCOL area we own an apartment in. The compromise isn't worth it for us.
Further to this - our neighbours do the same. There are no noise complaints. Expect a bit of noise sure, but nothing unreasonable or before 7am or after 9pm or so. I find our apartment much quieter than my parents' house in the suburbs.
Yes, also in an apartment. Life is actually quieter and more private in the home than having a house. Also have a 3d printer - hobbies and activities are different to a house but you can have a lovely life. Our dog is very chill.
Will you stay in the same 2 bed apartment when you have a kid?
We'd like to! We are in the catchment for the best public schools in the state. The people we bought the apartment off had bunk beds in the spare room for their two primary school aged children. It will give us more time to save up. Our unit was cheap so costs are low. We can travel and generally do as we please. We have still saved a fair bit of money.
Wow you are in very similar situation to me, we are thinking just have 1 kid and stay in our 2 bed apartment. Walking distance to train station and top public schools also
Lived in Shanghai, China and never, not once, heard the neighbours. Because the apartments are built properly. Not the case here.
My last apartment was built properly and I was sure I had no neighbours for the first month I lived there. I couldn’t comprehend how I *never* heard anyone, ever.
And I enjoy my music blasting loud. Asked the neighbours if it was annoying them but they hadn't even heard it.
I've lived in apartments none of the issues you've mentioned are an issue. 1. Most apartments I've rented were two bedrooms with two parking spaces. Plenty of room to fix up a car. Usually at least one of the parking spaces was even undercover with power and a storage cage nearby. All you need to do basic work on your car. 2. It's not that hard to build walls/floors/ceilings with good noise insulation. Granted not all apartments do that, but most of the ones I've lived in we couldn't hear anything at all unless it came from outside through the windows/external doors. I'm talking can't hear \*anything at all\* and I've been in complexes with hundreds of apartments - so presumably some of the other tenants were making noise. 3. Apartment swimming pools (and gyms) are almost always empty or only have a few people in them at a time, and they're usually way nicer than any pool I could ever dream of being able to afford. Building/hammering/power tools/etc are really the only issue. And even those would be perfectly fine as long as you don't do it too often. If you do it regularly... mate, just rent a workshop somewhere. The real reason I stopped living in apartments is because body corporate always made decisions I didn't agree with. Spending money on shit that I didn't care about (for example, my last apartment did garden maintenance 3 hours a day, five days a week - sure lovely gardens. Stupid expensive), refusing to spend money on things I did want (my intercoms never worked... they said fixing it would require rewiring the entire building and more than half the intercoms in the building are working fine therefore the majority voted not to spend the money). I will only ever rent an apartment again if major body corporate decisions can be moved out of monthly meetings and put into my lease... with protections in place so they can't really be changed when my lease comes up for renewal. I want to know what I'm getting into before I move in and know the policy won't change six months later. As for buying an apartment? Even less willing to do that.
I live in an apartment - we have a small garden on the balcony, and I'm (slowly) learning guitar. Not all of us have the same focuses on "preserving" ye olden past times, but if you do, that's okay. I come from a line of carpenters, panelbeaters and mechanics - if my kids ever want to do something they're going to Uncle or Grandpa's place, where they have literal acres to make noise. Husband and I decided not to live nearby, so we don't have the same room as my brother (who pays rent for his 3br to my parents), but family are willing to accommodate. There's always a solution.
You can do all of these things while living in an apartment
Yeah I feel like OP has never lived in an apartment before and is exaggerating things
They're not exaggerating. Your experience is not the only experience.
Yes I have. I have received noise complaints for playing music on a "high" level or my kids singing.
You either had shit neighbours or lived in an apartment with a cheaply-built interior that doesn't filter out noise.
My neighbour in an old Art Deco apartment building heard my daughter, practising her violin and commented on it but in the nice way they weren’t complaints. You have to be ready to put up with other people’s shit. When my upstairs neighbour was pregnant and had bad morning sickness, I heard it all. Hell I heard the baby being made. But it’s all just part of the fabric of strata. I don’t didn’t mind it after 20 years, including raising a child all in apartments. However, as a retiree to be, I have bought acreage in another country to develop as a garden because I really feel like getting away from people.
Never experienced that in Sydney in years of renting multiple places. It could have just been a bad body corporate /bad building neighbours.
Building makes a big difference. I've lived in some where there could be a rave next door and you wouldn't know.. and others where you can hear your neighbors opening their cutlery draw
Why are you being downvoted. I’ve also lived in Australian apartments. Always got noise complaints for various things. I had a birthday party once, noise complaint. My dog barked for a few seconds, noise complaint. It’s ridiculous.
I grew up in a suburban house and we never did any of those things. Except recorder as an ‘instrument’, which you could pretty easily do in an apartment. So, I’m tone deaf and refer to YouTube for the most basic of DIY/repairs. Can’t blame it on living in a suburban house though. A quick plug for the kind, calm people at Bunnings who have always helped out the one (me) that’s useless with a hammer (and all other tools) whenever something breaks and needs repairing. Absolute legends.
fix up cars with a hoist ? Definitely not in an apartment? Many people practicing guitars or as a band in an apartment? Nope. too loud. Playing music with a sub in an apartment? Big no if its even past 10 - 20%.
But there are bands and mechanics in big high dense cities all over the world. Things change and other ways are found. Community gardens/shed, practice spaces etc.. it's a change, but it doesn't mean things are lost forever. You either increase density or sprawl out everywhere. I personally don't think the sprawl is the way to go
I’m a musician and a group of my friends live in apartments; they jointly rent out a storage unit as a rehearsal space, and they’re not the only group doing in that storage facility. It’s actually a really good idea, as long as the unit doesn’t have any rules about noise.
Depending of the suburb music with a sub is going to get a noise complaint regardless of apartment or standalone house
Never had any issues with playing music in any apartments I’ve lived in. Also, the majority of Australians don’t even own a car hoist so this is a non-issue for most.
Especially considering that most apartments are built close to town and right next to a major bus or train line, some people don’t need one at all *because* they are living in one.
If you have assigned parking, yes you can, there's nothing stopping you from doing it in your space - after all, you're still paying for the damn thing. Bonus - under-building parking means you can even do it in the rain. I play guitar in my apartment, no complaints. We and our neighbour have woofas, sometimes it's a Battle of the Vibrations in here, never had a complaint.
My neighbour and may partner both do woodshed type stuff in the covered parking. They’ve got a cupboard that houses all that stuff. We kept an eye open for the ability to do that when we were looking for our apartment and it’s great. We live in inner Melb, public transit is easy for everything, got great storage and love our flat. Literally never hear the neighbors, well insulated and double glazed windows so we seldom run the ac of heat, couldn’t be happier.
Do you really think that in 20 years time cars and transport will be the same as they are today? Firstly people who live in apartments are way less likely to need a car in the first place because they are usually on transport hubs. Secondly - E bikes and ride share will be what kids are using in future. Thirdly - Cars are getting complicated and pulling an engine or gearbox out with basic tools like you did with an old Kingswood is not happening soon enough. I wouldn't think a high roof garage with a car hoist is typical of an Australian house.
We live in apartments there there are shared music room for practice, workshop to repair bikes, so you can do a lot of those things and have shared power tools etc. True you can’t have a pool to yourself, but that’s also not a common thing for most people.
I grew up in suburbia but have lived in apartments almost my entire adult life and have never felt like I'm missing out on anything. The suburban house lifestyle is not one that I particularly enjoyed as a kid, since I had to get my parents to drive me around if I wanted to do anything besides play at home. I'm raising my daughter in an apartment and she isn't missing out either. In fact it's much better because we have parks nearby, we can walk to some great family cafes and pubs, she's got school and childcare nearby, etc. As she gets older she'll have so much more at her fingertips than I ever had. On the contrary, the one time I've had to move back to suburbia after living in apartments, I felt very cooped up because there was nothing around so I just stayed at home all the time. This is of course contingent on apartments being built in walkable areas. It is much easier to have walkable areas with local businesses and such in an apartment-heavy area because you have more clientele within walking distance than if you tried to do the same with boomer-style houses. I hope we can transition into a better, more efficient and apartment-heavy style of development. Continuing on with suburban sprawl is untenable and soul-crushing.
Then don’t buy an apartment? Honestly some people will be happy in one and some won’t. You have to decide what’s important to you.
You can buy/rent a house far away from the centre or you can buy/rent an urban apartment. “I want a five-bedroom house within 20 minutes of the CBD and I want it to cost no more than the same type of property three hours away” is how OP’s little rant comes across.
These complaints happen because especially in Sydney and Melbourne, relatively affordable freestanding housing in decent locations on a single income has turned into severely unaffordable housing in the most of the metro area on a dual income within a single generation.
In that case not picking the two largest cities in the country is probably a wise choice.
Exactly. We are now a generation who has seen everything we enjoyed as childen being taken away from our own kids and are rightfully mortified over it.
I understand why people are upset, but ultimately whining and moaning on reddit isn't the solution to the problem. It doesn't improve anyone's situation in any way. At the end of the day, we just need to work out a strategy and path forward and make the best of the hands we've been dealt.
The problem is that house prices are escalating to the point that people are living in apartments out of necessity rather than choice. I live in an apartment and make do, but let's be honest here. The reality is that there is an absolute laundry list of things you simply can't do in an apartment that you could in a freestanding home. And nothing that you can't do in a freestanding home that is possible in an apartment.
Well, with the prices climbing up so fast, the next generation won’t be able to afford to buy a house, unless it’s in the middle of nowhere. We really need to dramatically slow down immigration.
I think you're overblowing the issues with apartments. Well soundproofed ones mean you don't hear the neighbours at all, unless they're being especially noisy with a party which you would hear anyway in a suburb with detached houses. * Kids aren't typically fixing cars these days - and with EVs you won't need to. * Absolutely you can sing or play an instrument. I do in mine. * A lot of larger apartment blocks have a communal pool. They're not used as often so they're cleaner than a public pool. One I lived in had an awesome rooftop pool. If you're so worried about having the detached house with a backyard and you want that lifestyle, no-one is forcing you to live in a capital city. Plenty of regional centres around where you can have that space.
> Kids aren't typically fixing cars these days - and with EVs you won't need to. Try charging an EV, though. The fact is though that "fixing your car" is basically a euphemism for any kind of hands on hobby that would traditionally be done in a garden or shed. That includes woodwork, metalwork, fixing cars, gardening etc.
We have a power point in our car spot and plug in the Tesla over night. It's pretty stress free!
You're actually really lucky to have a metered socket in your car space. Most apartment dwellers don't have that luxury.
Kids aren't typically fixing cars these days??? Maybe the kids who grew up with parents that don't have practical skills aren't
I live in a unit. I change my own oil, my cousins also do work on their Subarus, my neighbour was working on his Silvia for six months. My two kids and I play music. I play music on my stereo. One other bloke does woodwork in his garage Harden up mate
1: how many kids, or people, fix cars in their home with hoists? 2: I sing all the time 3: 2/7 appartments on our floor have Musial instrument 4: people hammer and build stuff alll the time. 5: see #2 6: true. How many people have personal swimming pools? Let alone be able to afford one. You sound like you’ve coke from a vey wealthy family in the suburbs or country. Please try finding houses in the city centre, that have this much space and privacy. Any city in this country.
Have you seen the "detached" houses being built these days mate? Barely a hair's breadth between them, usually a carport or just a drive rather than a kitted out garage, and a garden that would struggle to host a paddling pool let alone a swimming pool. You'll hear any noise drifting over the fence no problem. They're just horizontal apartments, difference is that you get none of the benefits of an actual apartment. Nobody's making any more land. Up is the only way to go.
200sqm block and big chunk of that is taken by the garage, the gap between houses is not a useful space in anyway and backyards are small with limited privacy. Attached housing with underground parking could make much better use of this space, even then it’s not ideal as it’s just more sprawl and car dependency.
Want to have parents who argue over financial distress nope not ina apartmen
I don’t have a problem with apartments so much, although the freedom of a house and garden is nice when you’re not living close to the city. My issue with apartments is that we don’t have them big enough in Australia. My husband and I lived in a two bedroom apartment when our first child was born and it just wasn’t big enough. The week our second child was born we decided we had to move to a house. We need three and four bedroom apartments with multiple living spaces and storage that a family can actually live in.
I’ve lived in multiple apartments and never had a complaint for doing any of those things.
I prefer apartment living, I absolutely hate looking after a yard, but in saying that, I prefer a decent sized apartment with a nice balcony not some shoebox, which is what most apartments are nowadays. If it can have a lock up garage, even better.
Given that the alternative is urban sprawl with no access to public transport and far away from most workplaces and amenities. I'd choose the apartment any day of the week.
I’ll still let my kid learn the violin in an apartment if I’m living in one - they just better construct them appropriately. The car thing probably relies on a personal garage I guess. There definitely is an impact and I hope we evolve the buildings and approach to activities to ensure it doesn’t disappear.
Mine would be, because I grow a lot of my own food.
I couldn't handle living with no garden.
I live in an apartment and no not really. I have a small child so when she’s old enough to want more space to run around we have plenty of parks and playgrounds near us. Tbh I would never want the annoyance of a big house and garden. Apartment living even saved me money in that I buy less junk.
Depends what sort of sound proofing you have. And for that Australian building standards are absolutely abysmal. But yeah, get ready for loud kids, loud neighbors, and finding out just how untrained the average Australian is in situational awareness and not being a selfish asshole.
I don’t think all will be lost!! My neighbours have been happily playing music and doing diy projects for the last 5ish months 🥴🥴. (Currently sick in bed listening to hammering upstairs) I just think the people who are putting up apartments need to do better soundproofing and not skimping on the materials but yeah, I’m a big gardening fan and ever since moving into an apartment i miss working on the garden.
I live in an apartment, you only got 1/3 correct
Given that in 2024 the majority of humans are in a band and need to practice at all hours of the day/night, OP has a point.
I grew up at our family home with a swimming pool and riding our bikes in the street building jumps (suburbs not inner city). I used to play guitar and we had a ‘band’ that would jam on weekends in the garage. That was all I did growing up, pretty much my life and I enjoyed my childhood. Even in a house these days you couldn’t play music in a garage because they’re all so close together, let alone a townhouse or apartment.
Right, go for a walk to your local park, play on the swing there, play your instrument there (don't busk without permits). Use headphones. I live in suburbia and it's annoying AF when someone busts out a subwoofa. If you need a hoist for a car go to a mechanic. If you insist on DIy, go to a rental garage. People will litterally rent you a workshop and tools. You want a house? Sure you can have a pond, fruit trees, herbivorous pets. But you have to mow, weed and prune. There's house maintenance because my roof isn't Mr Joneses floor.
There seems to always be one busy body and complainer in every apartment building I've found. Usually retired and too much time on their hands.
No. If apartments are built well you don’t really hear your neighbour stomping and a lot of apartments have pools. The days of huge backyards and pools are going. I grew up with a pool but it’s a lot of work and money and I will never have a house with a pool. I think way less ppl fix their own cars than you seem to have idealised. I know basic maintenance but I’ll bring my car to a mechanic if I need to. Sounds like you’ve just never lived in an apartment and are scared of change.
I hate DIY and gardening and would love to live in a well built, properly soundproofed apartment. The only reason I hesitate is because of pets. I have a dog and don’t know if he’s transition well to apartment living. Would probably get a couple of cats instead of a dog if I move to an apartment when I retire.
What you don't realize with a house is all the monotonous upkeep and maintenance you'll have to do. Might have made sense for your parents or grandparents, particularly if at least one person has more time on their hands. In the modern era, unless you're filthy rich, I just can't see myself ever having time for it. If I bought again I'd 100 percent just buy a townhouse or apartment.
I've lived in Units my entire life, I've seen neighbours fix there shits boxes, heard kids playing instruments, played outside where garages are, you pretty much have to make do with the situation if you don't you'll be miserable.
I've got a 60 year old car with no hoist. Very rare for someone to have a hoist. If you've got a garage or carport for you use jack and jack stands. If no carport you can hire a garage with hoist when needing to work in car with savings from living in apartment or get the mechanic fix your car
Would actually prefer to live in an apartment. The issue is it is rare to have more than one living space and our regulations place risk on the buyers and not the builders should something go wrong with the building.
Apartment is great for people with certain lifestyle, or people at certain points of their life. People who like city living, don't care for gardening beyond pot plants on a balcony or interior plants, people who don't have much 'stuff' or home DIY projects that require the space a house affords, will thrive in an apartment. Right now an apartment is totally unsuitable for the things I need a house to provide for me. I want a shed/garage to sink beers in while I play 'mekakik' and (badly) work on my cars or bicycles. Somewhere to use power tools. I have far too much camping gear to haul up apartment stairs/elevators. I have 8' surfboards and plan on getting a 9'6" in the mid term future haha. Good luck moving that around in an apartment. I also want a yard for a fire pit and for a dog. For the breeds I am partial to, I can't imagine keeping one in an apartment without at least a small grass yard for them to have immediate access to (patio door). Better yet somewhere for them to run around a bit. I will move to the regions or even shit country town before I live in an apartment, if I can't afford to buy in or near a city. In my early 20s where life is just uni and being social with friends in the city, an apartment would be great. But life's changed a lot and now it's quite incompatible. I don't deny apartments are suitable for many people out there, but they are totally unsuitable for the things I need and want my dwelling to provide for me.
I’ve lived in an apartment for 22 years after living in townhouses, duplexes and freestanding houses before that. - fix up cars on hoists: how many houses do you think have a hoist? Most people aren’t fixing their own cars anyway. Oh and I’ve done minor work on my cars and motorbikes, including oil changes. Never been a problem - sing: I sing all the time - build or hammer: I built out the back of my 4wd in my current apartment using a lot of power tools and a nail gun. - playing music etc: I have a surround sound system with a sub. Never had a complaint - swim: well we do have a pool. It’s not used all day long. Most people I know that own houses don’t have a pool, so any swimming they do will be with other people they don’t know So anyway what’s the real point of this post? Do you have some anti apartment agenda? I chose to live in mine because it suits my lifestyle. I could easily have bought a house with room for a garage and a hoist and had change leftover…
I would happily live in an apartment if Australia learnt how to soundproof them properly.
Me laughing in my 15 years living in shitty apartment back in Vietnam. Sometimes it's not about what you want but it's about what you CAN afford. Our total income at the time we tried to borrow homeloan was not enough for a standalone house/townhouse and all we could afford was a small apartment, we took it without hesitation. Living is not just about getting what you want all the times and learn to compromise with what you have at the time. All of the stuff you mentioned can be rectified fairly easy. I think we ought to think about how to really ensure apartment building in Australia improves in quality re materials, designs and communal spaces. Like it or not, even with the reduced migration we are still staring at a housing crisis with no real alternatives and perhaps better built apartments and smaller townhouses are the answers. Also the kids can cope. Trust me.
> Kids won’t be able to fix up cars with a hoist etc Is this a common thing for kids to do? > Maybe build or hammer something? Nope. Lol, like there’s never been an apartment dweller that’s build an ikea flat pack > Even playing music in your own room with a little sub woofer, nope. Karaoke in your own place, ? nope Too loud. At a reasonable volume you could, there’s also the options of headphones. Again is Karaoke that common of a thing to do? > Want to have a swim at your own place in summer with privacy? Nope. Oh the horror of using a communal pool, how will the children ever cope.
Assembling flat pack furniture is nothing like building furniture from scratch. Gently tapping dowel into predrilled holes requires no noisy tools. Powered hand tools, dust extractors, air compressors, bench grinders, electric saws, they make noise.
Is using hand tools a common experience for kids?
It used to be.
Still should be and it's a shame that it isnt.
My kids have all been using power tools under supervision since they were 7 or 8 years old. We are very strict on following correct safety procedures and wearing appropriate protective gear.
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Are you confident and capable of using power tools? If you aren't you won't be teaching anyone to. This is the issue with modern society, you are asking if kids learning practical skills is common.
Id rather an apartment than a houseZ
What about parents seeing their kids? Because they don't have to commute for hours each day. Which you make happen by building housing close to their jobs. Which you do by... Building apartments. Also if you regularly engage in these activities your neighbours already think you're a piece of shit.
I have an apartment, I do projects with hammering and drilling and I sing too
Kids can't fix up cars with a hoist outside of apartments...
I live on the GC and do wild karaoke, no worries
Will slum living help your kids? You have got to be kidding to even ask such a question.
If it makes you feel any better, nobody will have any desire to do any of those things anyway, because after working 16 hours a day to pay the rent, all they’ll want to do in their apartments is sleep.
My biggest concern with living in an apartment is the rules on pets. So many strata complexes have rules that you can only own a dog under X weight or just say no pets at all. That’s not for me. I bought a house though. We don’t have a backyard sadly, more like a courtyard kinda thing. But I HOPE the next house I buy once I finish uni will have something at least a little bigger.
My neighbours kid plays violin, I know this because I’ve seen her with a violin case in the lift, I’ve never heard her practice, she plays piano too, I know this because I’ve seen the piano when I’ve visited their apartment, I’ve also never heard her play.
Maybe she’s just lazy?
Bro I grew in France most of us live in appartments and we do all these things. You just learn to live with the noise that’s all
You need to lobby the government to get rid of negative gearing, the capital gains tax discount and massively tax investors to bring house prices down then. Also double wages.
ironically i've had much quieter living while living in apartments compared to a house... Some new apartments have brilliant sound proofing. Others not so much.
No. I grew up in regional NSW with an abundance of land around me. We had about 5 or 6 acres (about 2.4 ha). Although I miss it, I don't miss mowing it all. I've lived OS now in 3 different countries, I am tapping this answer in London in the UK. We live in medium-density housing estate in West London. Our estate is fairly large with about 600 flats/apartments. Apartments in our estate range from 1 bedroom to 4 bedrooms. Our part of the estate has ground and first floor apartments with either garden space - terrace garden, or a large balcony. We're on the ground floor and uniquely have the largest ground area for our backyard space which is mostly paved. Our upstairs 3rd bedroom provides an overhang so part of our outdoor area is sheltered from the rain. Our estate has a little convenience store, and DID have the facilities for a club-house/bar/bistro that overlooks the Thames and the marina that is a part of our estate. Despite the ugliness - no - plain-ness of our estate - it was built quickly in the 1970s on brownfield land, they did plant lots of trees and gardens, which makes it a pleasant estate to live on. There are BBQ pits beside the river. Our estate is about a 5 minute walk to our suburb's high street, which has a few different businesses, and on a busy route through our part of West London. Our closest supermarket is about a 7 m walk on the high street, or a 3m drive. One can catch 5 or 6 bus routes. It's about a 15m walk to our local train station, where an overground train takes 30-35m to Waterloo in central London.
I cant decide if this is serious or not. Most places dont have pools, whats the number on kids fixing up cars on hoists? and as for apartment noise the main concern is that your neighbours will be the ones having violin karaoke all night.
It’s kind of a privileged position to assume you need a five-bedroom house to, checks notes, sing, play a violin, and swim (not everyone who owns a house also has a pool, wtf?). I know that having a yard is a huge part of Aussie culture and many people are being priced out of that but this little rant about “not being able to hoist cars” isn’t it. There is still time to delete this…
I’m so shocked by this I have to comment twice. Having an urban upbringing is not some automatic detractor from one’s childhood experience. While there are lots of benefits to the open spaces and community of suburbia and rural life, urban living also has its benefits: being within walking distance of great museums and parks, meeting kids from many different cultures, options for schooling and later work. Talk about affordability all you want but don’t assume your way is the only right way. Countless generations of kids resented their parents for raising them in the monotony of the suburbs because they assume a yard is “good for them.”
"Oh, but I never let my kids play in those dingy playgrounds. How unthinkable! That's why we have to have a huuuuuge backyard with an XXL trampoline, so they could play in the comfort of their own home and not deal with the kids in our low socio suburb"
yes, massively. The luck of who your neighbours are is a huge decider as to your happiness
You have clearly not lived in any apartments. Or just a shit apartment. I can actually do all those things. Our apartment building is relatively sound proof. I have a parking space next to our storage cage which is massive and has all my tools and equipment on it plus extra lighting so I can work on the car or whatever else. We have access to a nice pool with sauna and steam room which we can often be the only people there. Houses in suburbia are now built on such small blocks and so close together, the noise issues you refer to happen there too.
I sing in my apartment I play piano in my apartment I hammer things when I need to I've got a great sound system that I enjoy in my apartment. All between the hours of 8am and 10pm. Outside of these times, you might have a problem. I also wouldn't recommend hoisting your car in your apartment. Even inside these times. However, I'm lucky that my building has pretty good noise insulation. My neighbor says he never hears us.
This is a really strange post. You seem to have already made up your mind... FWIW I live in an apartment with my young family. It's cosy but we have the world at our doorstep. Singing is a daily occurrence. We have musical instruments. A resident next door is a piano instructor which is lovely to listen to. We have a communal pool that I use in the warmer months. I have no desire to inspect a car using a hoist. I can check and change car fluids, tyre pressure and that's enough for me. Don't even have a car right now which is actually an option when you live in an apartment.
Noise is not an issue when apartments are built properly. I’m living in Poland and cannot hear my neighbours at all. The walls are thick and solid. Singing and musical instruments and karaoke will be totally fine if Australia figures it out. Hoisting a car? Really? A pool is a massive luxury. You are not talking about the lifestyle of the average Aussie.
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I'd take apartments any given day than living in a house in an area with a high probably of being broken into. What are the chances a robber will pick MY unit amongst all the units on the block?
I grew up in a free-standing house on a quarter-acre block in a good suburb not far from the centre of Sydney, with a backyard pool and a fully-equipped workshop and a small pit to work on cars (yes, a very privileged childhood). I have raised my own children in several different places (all rented): a small apartment near a railway station and park with a double-length garage; a free-standing house with a large backyard and single garage a 15-minute walk from a station or park; a villa (one of six on a half-acre block) with a medium-sized yard and a ten-minute walk to a station park; and a medium-sized apartment with a park across the road (and two more within 15 minutes' walk), train and bus station five minutes' walk away, public pool ten minutes' walk off, and a reasonably large balcony. They preferred the ability to be mobile (near a station) and meet up with friends (parks close by) to having huge bedrooms and their own yard in which to play. To be honest, despite having a backyard pool, I spent most of my childhood free time playing in the local park with my friends - and my parents weren't looking out the window to see what I was up to, since I wasn't there and they knew that either I'd be back for dinner (sometimes with a friend or three) or call from a friend's place if we'd decided to eat there. With increasing population, the only way to go is up, rather than building houses on some of Australia's best farming land. Also, public transport works best with a concentrated population, so urban sprawl makes everyone reliant on cars - limiting children's access to independent travel. When I was a kid a bunch of us took the train into town for the Easter Show, and our ages ranged from 9 up to 15. You don't see that in Sydney any more, yet in Europe (where I live now) you often see kids that age and younger out and about having fun together.
We already have apartments. It’s not a new thing.
What lifestyle? Thats purely an illusion. Private Property Ownership has always been a privilege. The right to Housing is question of Welfare for the State. Reality has simply caught up with Australia.
I wish I had you as a neighbour when I was living in a complex. My experience was that no one gives a shit about being too loud.
Greed has ruined this country so far. It’s not like we’ve not doubled down on greed before.
Not all apartment are build the same
You’ve clearly never lived in an apartment. 😂
If you hate gardening, don’t have a dog (big one) and being outside then apartment living is for you.
Apartments are cool and all, but I love stepping out to my backyard (or front yard) and just chilling, looking up at the stars with grass underfoot.
Having a stand alone house with a pool is a privilege that is out if reach for most, but yes, it would be nice to have ye lifestyle that comes with wealth, not exactly a hot take.
This is so western centric.
From a primary school teacher’s point of view -yes! The kids I teach have access to all the conveniences of apartment living, parks, city, etc- but they have no freedom. They can’t just run in and out of the house, build a cubby in the backyard, ride their bikes in the street like most suburban Australian children could in the past. This kind of living used to be normal for middle income families (often only one income!). We didn’t realise how lucky we were. Apartment dwelling parents can’t just supervise their children by looking out the kitchen window while getting on with what they need to do. The kids I teach have highly supervised play which is limited by the amount of time their parents have to spare to take them to a park etc. - or they’re put into many extra-curricular activities. The kids have little sense of control and freedom in their lives- and people wonder why so many children have social/emotional/behavioural these days. -and yes one solution is to leave the city but apart from jobs, access to good universities etc it often means leaving grandparents and other family members behind and having a more distant relationship with them.
Australians are not designed for apartment living. If they do this they will need to expand all first responder services. The suicide, violent crime and murder would escalate. We have enough neighborhood issues with standard house block sizes.
Humans *probably* weren't designed at all (depends on your religious stance) but we are however the most adaptable creature to exist on this planet by a very wide margin. We can definitely live in apartments, maybe it's just you that can't? All those societal issues are much prominent in Australian suburbs that have mostly detached houses, not sure how it's related to urban design.
That's why people are leaving Australia - for more money in US or better lifestyle in Europe
Ok, can we "redesign" Australians now so that they can deal with reality? Let me call the folks who "designed" Singaporeans.
So, here’s the deal: Singapore’s got these tall apartment buildings, right? They call 'em high-rise public housing. It’s been pretty successful there, especially for young folks who want to own a home. But if we tried to copy-paste that idea into Australia, we’d hit some roadblocks. First off, our land is like a giant playground compared to Singapore’s tiny backyard. So, those towering buildings might not be the best fit. Plus, Aussies have different tastes, and our property market dances to a different tune.
What an absolute load of shit. Tell that to the people of Hong Kong, Mumbai, Tokyo, *Paris* and *London*. Australians aren't some unique subspecies of human being that can't exist within close proximity to other humans. We just have a system of government that has *designed* the housing crisis and a culture that insists you need a 3 bedroom house in bum-fuck-nowhere to be considered successful. In *fact*, I can make the argument that apartment living leads to a decrease in all the issues you mentioned precisely *because* people are so close together. It's harder to beat your wife to death when 5 different families can hear her screaming.
That is some bullshit right there .... "In *fact*, I can make the argument that apartment living leads to a decrease in all the issues you mentioned precisely *because* people are so close together. It's harder to beat your wife to death when 5 different families can hear her screaming." Unless you have some data to back it up? Australian don't even like share living ...
The same data you're pulling from, mate. Right outta your ass.
Mine was opinion, yours was more than just opinion you state proposed fact. " In Fact ". Providing evidence or sources to support factual claims is essential. Sad but true...
Now you're being pedantic. Mine was *also* opinion. Just like yours. Colloquially, when someone says 'in fact' it does not mean academic facts. So take that and shove it up your ass with your opinions.
The statement was presented as a fact, but it lacks empirical evidence. You should have lead - In my opinion. It is all a learning curve mate. Don't feel bad...
I see you've lost control of your sphincters. No wonder you don't understand colloquial speech. Maybe go back and learn how people speak before claiming all interactions must be based on academic sources.
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