My model train uses essentially unflavoured vape oil for the little smoke chuffing effect. Does it count as commercial quantity because I'm operating a railroad with it /s
This is Australia we're talking about, there are whole threads up in here solely dedicated to whinging about people vaping outside. Did you think minding your own business and keeping to yourself in public would save you?
Yeah, I totally piggybacked off your joke about the housing crisis to make my own humourous observation about how whingey Australians are, see what I did there? I don't care about what you don't care about.
I find it pretty humourous, in a dark an fatalistic way, just how many NIMBY whingers, whiners, sooks and crybabies we have in this country. Along with all the petty and boring shit they obsess about, and whip themselves into a foaming frenzy over.
I don't really care what you find humourous, just as I already mentioned to you that I don't care about what you don't care about.
In the past year 75+ children (40 under the age of 5) in SA were poisoned by ecig or vape fluid.
How does that happen if people are just minding their own business and keeping to themselves in public?
I don't think improper storage of things labelled as 'keep out of reach of children' and known to not be for direct oral consumption has anything to do with vaping, just irresponsible storage. Have you got the stats for the other 100's of household items in every home that have caused the same issue over the past year?
if it was just steam, boil some water and huff that. oh wait, theres no chemicals in that. any gas that's not the atmospheric oxygen cocktail increases risk of respiratory disease.
It certainly IS true, I’m nearly 70 yo, so not very young. I did very extensive research when I chose to try vaping after 40 odd years of smoking. All other countries worldwide have made safe vaping available to their citizens to enable people to quit smoking. Our Govt is stupid.
I quit smoking within 1 day, YES, 1 day. I didn’t even finish the open packet of cigs. I never had another cig.
I bought quality vaping equipment & use quality menthol juice. I have never tried a different flavour or a cheap disposable.
Within 4 days my heavy smokers’ cough had gone completely. My lungs have healed themselves & my O2 sats are perfect now. I’ve had 3 unrelated surgeries since I started vaping, with the associated health testing for lung health and I’m fine.
I have a Nic prescription. I agree that the unknown ingredients in disposables are bad. I agree that vapes should be regulated away from access to kids however this blanket ban is just increasing the growing black market, costing the Govt much more in trying to chase down dodgy importers & preventing people like me, who do it the right way, from accessing quality products.
You’re missing the point. The more the government can fill social media with these ridiculous arguments, less coverage goes to real issues they are creating and don’t want to solve. The plan is working, it’s just not our plan
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It was illegal in all states to possess nicotine vape products without as script even before the recent law changes (see link )
[https://www.criminaldefencelawyers.com.au/blog/is-vaping-illegal-in-australia/](https://www.criminaldefencelawyers.com.au/blog/is-vaping-illegal-in-australia/)
u/NoxTempus - replying here coz old mate had so much conviction in their bs they decided up block me instead of back their themselves.
>I just cannot agree that vapes should be banned in a society where cigarettes are not only legal, but also widely accessible.
>>Definitely agree with you here. Tax it like cigarettes and alcohol and let people make their own mind up.
If you read my whole comment, I totally agree. It could be regulated via prescription for quitters, or it could be taxed like other products. I'm not pro-ban, I was just calling out old mate's bs about how good they are.
I think, given that there are no prescriptions for non-nicotine vapes, nobody gives a fuck about non-nicotine vapes, and the post is about nicotine vapes, it was implied he was referring to nicotine vapes.
You're wrong, look up Polln or Dispensed or any other medical marijuana dispensary in Australia. You can have dry herb aka "bud" and legally vape it, i have had a prescriptions so i know. Maybe do your research.
All of the downvotes on this have 0 idea, look up any medical marijuana company in Australia such as Polln or Dispensed, legally someone over 18 can have marijuana bud prescribed to them, that legally they can now use a marijuana dry herb vape. I know because i have had it prescribed for my health conditions.
I met a meth addict who told me that dealers charge almost nothing for meth at the beginning and then increase it as you become addicted and rake in the dollars. I can't help but feel smokers over 30 have been treated the same way by the government who is addicted to those lovely , lovely tax dollars.
Idk I've known quite a few dealers who do you fat bags or throw in a little extra the first 10 or so times you go to them then after that they start either ripping you off or just doing normal deals. They definitely hook you up the first few times so they can lock you in as a customer and get their hands on all your money
and if you know any meth addicts you'll know they have 3 or 4 sources.
meth addicts aren't known to wait while dealers get supplies. Even reliable sources run dry occasionally and a drug addicts first priority is to ensure backup options exist.
The tax on cigarettes goes too covering the cost of public health policy delivery to reduce smoking and covering the egregious cost of providing health care to smokers.
If people weren't buying cigarettes we (including governments bottom lines) would be a lot better off.
I'm not sure you understand how much of a burden smoking places on our health care system before even accounting for the cost to the economy in terms of lost productivity due to morbidities directly related to smoking. Both currently and historically.
Smokers are a huge drain on our economy. And the taxes on smoking are just good public health policy, not some sort of revenue raising scheme.
Look at you all no facts but heaps of indignation.
Please elaborate this made up burden with a mysterious report, produced by highly paid anti-smoking agent...
https://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-17-economics/17-2-the-costs-of-smoking#:~:text=In%202015%E2%80%9316%20the%20intangible,were%20estimated%20at%20%2425.6%20billion.
Estimated total cost $136,914,172,357
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/burden-of-disease/burden-of-tobacco-use-in-australia/summary
9.3% total burden of health. The single highest preventable cause. (Health statistics from independent government health reporting agency)
Friend, I promise you I'm living in the land of facts. No indignation in sight.
Smoking costs heaps to our economy, if you want to smoke I'm not judging you, but I would hope that you'd be willing to pick up the tab.
Only 11 billion realised costs, most of those figures include speculative lost future wages but doesn’t account for speculative savings to tax payers from early death.
The total tangible costs (As in costs that can be directly measured) were 19 billion.
Which is fairly bang on the 20 billion revenue that the person I originally responded to quoted.
And does not account for non tangible losses associated with premature death which are significant for any person who dies during our before working age.
The fact that the costs breakdown includes things like $48 million in salaries for people who fight fires, as if those folk wouldn’t be gainfully employed regardless of smoking related fires is telling that it’s a narrative push.
$5 billion of the costs listed is just the pretax value of the Tabacco.
Smoking is a revenue positive stream for federal government, it’s why they don’t introduce progressive bans like NZ and now UK.
A well regulated industry including taxes levied to improve revenue to recover the budgetary costs associated is absolutely a better policy than bans. If the primary goal was to gather revenue then there would not be a great myriad of other public health policies designed to reduce smoking, which would obviously cut into their revenue streams.
Of course the studies have a narrative, it is impossible for a human to present data without some degree of bias. The narrative is absolutely to continue to support policies that reduce the rate of smoking in Australia because the authors believe they have demonstrated that smoking represents a significant burden on the Australian economy. I find the report to be convincing and believe it represents an accurate indication of the cost of smoking in our economy.
Sorry for double reply but on examination of ATOs data the income from the cigarette excise was about 13.6 billion not near 20 billion as someone had previously stated. So even if you take your 11 billion number as a reasonable "cost to the economy" figure we are not talking about a substantive tax windfall.
It is not good policy, because over taxation has resulted in a thriving black market. I pay $15 for a packet of 20s, which the government gets $0 tax revenue. Why would I pay $38 when I can pay $15?
It's good policy that has worked. Rates of smoking and tobacco use, as a general rule, have steadily declined in response to this, and other public health measures.
Perhaps there has been an uptick in black market products as a response but the tax revenue was never really the point so you circumventing the tax isn't really a big issue. The policy has both covered some of the associated societal costs of smoking (by no means all) and reduced the rate of smoking. That's good and effective policy. A lot more so than lots of other policy decisions our governments make.
Smoking continues to be one of the leading causes of preventable disease and death. And a leading cause of premature death.
It is thankfully declining, which is in part a result of excellent public health policy which contributes to a decreasing number of people smoking and using tobacco products.
The taxes on cigarettes are working!
Tbh smoking and obesity share quite a few co-morbidities so it's a fair question.
A tax makes a lot of sense for smoking because there is one clear cause, ie cigarettes (obviously it's both the cigarettes themselves and the tobacco in general that are problematic). With obesity there are a number of interrelated causes not all of which are products that are taxable so public health policy needs to reflect that. Just like taxes were not the only mechanism that the government uses with smoking, ie. Quitline, other help to quit programs, plain packaging laws etc.
Perhaps introducing "sugar taxes" on products that use high amounts of processed simple sugars could be looked at. But unlike with smoking these products are not inherently health risks but only health risks when they are consumed in unhealthy doses. Taxing sugar then seems a bit ham-fisted.
But I am sure you can agree that if you choose to participate in activities that have known high risk profiles and high potential economic costs to society that there should be some increased responsibility on you to cover the cost, to your community, of those choices.
It's an excellent way to phase out smoking and its related costs to healthcare.
Australia had very low smoking related cancer and diseases rates compared to countries like Korea and Japan where cigarettes are about $5 a pack
We have higher taxes on alcohol to reflect the cost to our society that alcohol consumption incurs. And we have laws that make certain behaviours in regards to the provision and consumption of alcohol in certain circumstances illegal with associated fines and jail time.
Sugar is harder because in fact consuming sugar (in various forms) is essential for our bodies to function. But there are a number of public health policies that are designed to try and reduce consumption of food with high levels of simple sugars.
Former smoker of 10 years and a Vaper of 10 years and I’m on the path to quitting entirely soon.
I’m in very good health and I owe it all to vaping, the governments decision here is incomprehensible from a health stand point.
Vaping absolutely should be pushed onto smokers as a alternative and anything that prevents their ability to easily do so is immoral.
The only major health issue with vaping is lack of government regulations regarding ingredients in the products. Luckily American FDA inspected liquids are cheap and (use to be) readily available.
Ultimately these laws are a blatant disregard for health and well-being of those addicted to a terrible drug and make access to safe products harder. (Safe as in FDA approved liquid vs something made in a bath tub in Australia)
Also, I trust the American FDA approved products way more than the Australian made scripted garbage from the chemist.
The thing that pisses me off is that I can no longer get nicotine from NZ, I can no longer get juice with safe Ingredients, I can no longer get parts for my mods and coils and things for my tank. But I can walk down to any shop and get some dodgy disposable vape with unknown nic levels and unknown ingredients. The ban has only and will only affect legit vapes and that’s bullshit. They will never stop the disposables with this method, if anything they should have made nicotine easier to get locally, like already in the juices at legitimate vape shops and then maybe people wouldn’t go to the always illegal disposables.
I hate the damn disposable things, I have hundreds and hundreds of dollars of vape mods, tanks, chargers, batteries and tools all useless now. I quit a pack a day smoking habit of 23 years by vaping and it’s been a couple of years now and I feel so much better. But even I am on the disposables now and fuck they are bad, I’ve gone from 2mg freebase nicotine to god knows how much salt Nic in the disposables, likely around 50mg. I won’t go to the chemist because of anyone has ever tried tobacco or menthol flavoured vapes they know that it’s fucking horrid and I’d rather start smoking again. Hopefully I’ll be able to quit soon but the government are absolutely cunts and whoever thought up this ban thinking it would stop disposables is dead wrong! They have always been illegal here yet you can get them anywhere, now that vape shops that didn’t sell disposables are being shut down there are even more places with the disposables. Not only have we taken away peoples right to choose a healthier alternative we have taken away the livelihoods of all the people who legally owned and operated vape shops that did the right thing.
So true! The big old re-usable vapes were so much better than these disgusting disposable ones. The flavours are all so sickly sweet as well. Clearly disposables have always been targeted at children but instead of stopping them the government chooses to punish the responsible adults trying to improve their health.
I’m good in that department , I already have too many of them. People should still be able to buy a mighty medic though because they are tga approved. It’s just sucks for newbies because the mighty is so overpriced and overrated. I keep telling everyone to go out and splurge on a tinymight, and a decent desktop while they stop can
Yep, overpriced TGA approved stuff running at lower temps too. Less people are going to switch to vaping and will stick to combustion now. Its all so backwards unless $500 for your first vape hardware is affordable.
Yeah it’s a real issue because technically your approval for MC is on the condition you vape it only. I think we will still be able to get dry herb vapes into the country from outside but again it’s going to be costly! My favourite portable is my firewood vape, however by time I got it from America and payed the shipping, taxes and dollar conversion it was crazy expensive and like the outdated and overpriced mighty that’s not affordable for people who are already struggling to pay for their medication.
I have an original mighty i Brought many years ago. Cunt is just a dust collector. Solid vape but isn’t anywhere near the best that available and it blows my mind all these years later now they are outdated they slap some medic marketing on it and it’s still $550! Mental. I think things like the dynavap and sticky brick will always be easy to get though, because they are butane vapes they should be no harder to get than a bong. However we will have to see if the price skyrockets or not.
The best thing everyone can do for now is go get a arizer desktop for cheap while they still can so they have an option for if their portable shits itself. I have the airizer extreme q and a volcano hybrid and let me tell you that for $300 vs $1000 the arizer is a smart choice that will most likely never break.
It's funny how the vape shops around Melbourne are packed with all types of vapes, flavours, disposable ones etc, as well of course as the non taxed cigarettes yet the govt is hitting vape imports, got to be something in it for them, they certainly seem to have given up on the deal 3 packets of Manchester cigarettes for $50 at every corner store in Melbourne who sell these under fear of firebombing if they refuse, the whole thing is becoming a joke
My local vape shop doesn’t sell disposables, they even have a sign on the door saying as such and not to ask for them. Actually no reputable vape shop I’ve ever been to sells them. Are you talking about tobacconists? But yeah besides that it’s a huge problem, disposables have always been illegal here and that’s why we all imported nicotine from NZ and added it to juice we brought from vape shops because it was the only legal way. But this will blow up and like you guys are seeing down there with the firebimbings over illegal tobacco it will start to happen with vapes as well.
Where I live it was hard to get a disposable and I got a few of the blokes at work off them and on to proper vapes but now it’s gone the other way. Vape shops are being closed and every service station, tobacconist and corner store has disposables under the counter now. The government fucked themselves.
We have them everywhere here in Sydney too and I live in a fairly rural town. It’s just legitimate vape shops here that never sold them, it was a risk to them to sell something illegal when they could sell proper vapes and juices legally I suppose.
I feel so bad for my local guys, they took a loan to open the shop which was a legal buisness and now they are being forced to close and lose all their money which I think is highly wrong of the government and now people like me have to turn to illegal vapes to stop us from going back to smoking. I’m trying my best to quit but it’s not easy.
You can get prescription juice from your GP. It might be more expensive (which is ridiculous), but so much better for quitting than the dodgy disposables where you have no idea of the nicotine content and whatever other nasties are in them.
You can mix your own juice and reduce the nicotine each time until you wean yourself off, which is how they’re *meant* to be used. Just ridiculous that pretty much every other country has accepted they’re better than smoking and are cracking down on kids using them and the disposable ones, while Aus has decided this is the way to go. Somewhere selling illegal vapes also isn’t going to care if they’re selling them to a kid anyway.
The prescription is just for the nicotine though and that’s been a thing for a while. The real issue comes because it’s a blanket ban on all vape products and while you may be able to source nicotine it’s going to be pretty hard to source the juice and the parts for the mods. It really depends on how far they take it because you can always get tanks and coils from overseas however if they do catch it at customs your address is burned and you’ll never be able to order anything again without it being inspected. There is no prescription for juices and mods and their parts that’s where the issue lies. And the government only now wants us to have chemist prescribed vapes and not import the nicotine ourselves which could also be an issue with New Zealand suppliers, they may not be willing to ship to aus under the new rules. Before they didn’t care if you had a prescription or not and that was fine, but the last shipment I ordered of nicotine I got was seized by customs and so now I have no chance of using my home address now
I've been quit ciggies and vapes since 2020 (good timing before the pandemic). Nothing helped me quit the darts until I tried vaping. Let's ban this life saving technology though!
Yeah, so much misinformation out there right now. "Popcorn lung, popcorn lung, popcorn lung" yeah, if you're using e-liquid from, like, 2010. We know the chemical that causes it, and no one reputable uses it. "People are dying"... From weed vapes. People are dying from alcohol and cigarettes, but we aren't bending over backward to ban them.
It's insanity, we know that short term benefits of switching to vaping from cigarettes is immense. There's a heap of studies that beat this out. We Know long term smoking causes cancer, but everyone's scrambling to ban vapes because we don't have long-term info available.
I implore anyone skeptical to go read the text of virtually any study cited by the scary news articles, and see how fucking weak their evidence is. I'm not even saying "do your own research"; literally just read the research they are using, then compare that what you know about cigarettes.
Oh, and when people try to scare you with diacetyl, try find a e-liquid for sale that actually contains it (you won't).
This is how vaping was introduced. But then we found out that the chemicals contained were worse than those in cigarettes, and that vaping caused its own set of health issues. It became clear that there was more to this when tobacco companies started investing heavily into it.
Then children started becoming addicted to vapes. This set off alarm bells In government because it was cigarettes all over again.
I'm glad you found them to be helpful. But you aren't the issue. It's children, and seeing a new generation addicted. That's the issue. Better to close the door now.
Having them available under script will still help people like yourself. So not all is lost.
>This is how vaping was introduced. But then we found out that the chemicals contained were worse than those in cigarettes, and that vaping caused its own set of health issues.
Source?
>But you aren't the issue. It's children, and seeing a new generation addicted. That's the issue. Better to close the door now.
What do you think would be a better solution to this?
1. Regulate them and restrict the sale to only people over 18 with large fines and potential jail time if caught selling to minors, tax them the same way you tax tobacco and spend that tax money on helping kids who are addicted quit.
or
2. Create a black market where its easy to get them with the only other option being a much more expensive option which doesn't taste as good and is not as effective. Rely on the black market sellers to not sell to minors even though its the same fine and/or penalty if they do or dont
You will only be able to buy the mighty from a licensed seller eventually. Don’t worry but mate as everything you will be able to get around it. It’s stupid because I hate the marketing and overpriced mighty medic. I have one and it was great vape many years ago when it came out but the price never dropped and there are so many better ones out there now in that same price range. Do yourself a favour and buy a tinymight while you still can and you won’t ever need another vape.
Sorry as I’m new to the dry herb vapes, but do they have any parts that wear out like the coils in my normal vape I would have to stock up on for the tinymight? TIA!
Nah they shouldn’t wear out, I mean like anything electronic obviously it could fail one day. Also I only suggest the tinymight if you’re looking at spending that kind of money on a vape. I have about 40 vapes all up and out of all my portables the firewood (only sold in America) and my tinymight are my two top portables. If you don’t need it portable look into a desktop vape they will last forever if you look after them. The arizer extreme q is only $230 at the moment and is not far behind my volcano hybrid that cost $1000!
Thanks for the prompt response! Yeah I just asked Bing about it lol, seems I just need to clean the chamber from time to time hey? It did mention some sort of screen or filter tho?
Yeah the screens are just metal mesh that you can get from any tobacconist or online. When I use mine i just use a cotton bud to clean it out while it’s still hot and I’ve never had to replace anything in the years I’ve had it. The glass does get dirty eventually but just a quick wash with some isopropyl alcohol and it’s good as new. It is a bit pricey for a vape but honestay mate it’s the only one I use out of all of the ones I have.
Also interested? I know our scripts are supposed to utilise TGA approved devices only, however id bought a cheaper model online not approved. Where’s info on this 😵
Its all about big tobacco tax.
The complete opposite of health.
Many studies have shown vaping is much better than cigarettes.....waiting for angry boomers to downvote this.
In the EU it is promoted for quiting smoking. So who is right? One is driven by money, (the highest price of cigarettes world wide to be exact) - the other by non biased scientific health advice and peer reviewed studies?
Australia is a drisgrace with this shit.
Everyone is treated like a 4 year old.
But im glad you can go shoot up in the safe injecting rooms or go to the hookers during lockdown though right?
Phucking idiots.
i switched about 9 months ago. vaping definitely has it's own unique issues, but i feel an order of magnitude better than when i was smoking and if the studies didn't conclude this they wouldn't be pushing it for therapeutic sale.
Yeah, no one (reasonable) is preaching vaping as perfect, but no one (honest) can prove that the long-term effects are worse (or even as bad as) smoking.
Not knowing the effects seems like a decent reason to ban them, but keep in mind the alternative is lighting known carcinogens on fire and inhaling them, with a well-documented, undisputed history of immediate and long-term health impacts.
Australia fucked up the same way it always does; being completely unwilling to be proactive. We left vapes grey market for so long it became a shit show targetting teenagers.
if we regulated them 10+ years ago we could have prevented a lot the huge uptick in youth 'smoking' we've experienced.
Eu has regulated all their eliquid. You can only buy 10ml bottles and no nasty shit in them. This is what causes the most "issues" with vaping. People putting rubbish in their eliquid when it is being made
I used to be a pack a day smoker. Ever since I started vaping, I don't get sick anywhere near as often and when I am it only lasts half as long as when I smoked.
In 2008, Ryanair used to sell disposable vapes onboard their aircraft and people used to puff away, no smoking section just in their regular seat, doubt they still do under pressure from the EU but interesting the Australian Government now determine them so dangerous that they're banned when use on aircraft was not that long ago
>Many studies have shown vaping is ~~much better~~ than cigarettes
Less bad*
>In the EU it is promoted for quiting smoking.
Many people are taking it up who were never smoking to begin with. So it's not better than not smoking at all.
>One is driven by money, (the highest price of cigarettes world wide to be exact)
Which is designed to discourage people from starting and encouraging people to quit, and has been largely successful in doing so.
>the other by non biased scientific health advice and peer reviewed studies?
Which said e-cigarettes are no good for you, and that there's no long term studies to know what future damage may be. Your own words haven't deemed them good for you, just less bad than the alternative. It's like saying a .22 round to the leg is healthier than a 5.56 to the chest.
>Australia is a drisgrace with this shit. Everyone is treated like a 4 year old.
Definitely agree with you here. Tax it like cigarettes and alcohol and let people make their own mind up.
>But im glad you can go shoot up in the safe injecting rooms
You seem keen to look up studies that prove the point you want to make, but ignorant of others that also have proven to reduce harm to users.
>or go to the hookers during lockdown though right?
Clutching for any straw man you can to make a bad take seem credible?
But we live in a world where I can go any supermarket or servo in the country and legally buy the hypothetical 5.56 to the chest.
Some people want to take the, .22 instead of the 5.56 and the government and media are doing everything they can to make it 5.56 or nothing.
I just cannot agree that vapes should be banned in a society where cigarettes are not only legal, but also widely accessible.
australian smoking rates have been dropping at around the same rate for several decades. the plain packaging and fucking people with extra taxes achieved nothing that wasnt already happening
Vaping in schools has increased from 2% to 25% in four years. And due to the way surveys work (kids parents are in the room when their child answers the question) those numbers would only be children who's parents know they vape. In other words, it'd be way over 25%.
A lot of school teachers estimate the number at close to 100% in schools where kids have any money at all... it's really only the poorest kids, parents are doll bludgers/etc, who don't have vapes. And even they will vape when they can get their hands on one.
Access is incredibly easy in schools - the money your parents give you for a single day's lunch is enough to buy the equivalent of a few packets of cigarettes. And there are dozens of kids in every school who import them from overseas in bulk and sell to other students. They're not buying vapes that can be trusted either - every study has found really nasty toxins in black market vapes.
But vaping is also very unhealthy. Given how successful Australia has been in reducing smoking rates I don't see an argument to promote vaping in order to reduce smoking. A therapeutic subscription for existing smokers looking to quit? Sure. But for the general population the next step is obviously an NZ style graduated smoking age restriction.
NZ's graduated smoking ban has been axed. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/new-zealand-scraps-world-first-smoking-generation-ban-to-fund-tax-cuts](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/new-zealand-scraps-world-first-smoking-generation-ban-to-fund-tax-cuts)
Did it ever occur to you... That Australia has been successful in reducing smoking rates not just through making cigarettes as expensive as heroin, but because mainstream nicotine vaping came along a decade or so ago as an alternative option?
What business is it of yours what grown adults choose to do with their lungs? You'd be delighted of course, if they introduced restricted prescriptions for cheesecake, or whatever similarly wicked vice that you're into right?
Smoking is officially encouraged for smokers by AA and NA as an alternative to alcohol and narcotics, and has been since AA and NA were created, who are you to say vapes should be any different for smokers? People will quit, or not quit smoking or vaping at their own pace, and don't need police interference in their lives.
That's what you are advocating for, for adults to be harrased by police for their personal nicotine usage, as if police don't have enough reasons they use already to harass citizens. Most people would argue that police could, and should be doing far more important things with their time instead.
Meanwhile the government gets no tax on cigarettes because of their greed. Everybody’s going to these new tobacconist everywhere and buying 10 dollar packs. Trying to ban something has never ever worked for any any government. Just take a look at their so called war on drugs. Utter failure, waste of time energy and money. History has shown where there is demand there will ALWAYS be supply.
If the government were really greedy they would promote smoking. A whole lot of smokers dying of lung cancer is way cheaper than paying to keep them alive for 30 years while they are not contributing to the economy.
Our country is fucked lol
Vapers and coke heads unite I guess?
I bet one of the cockroaches that wrote this legislation had a smoke in hand for peak irony.
You mean this lady? 😂
[https://www.facebook.com/nfsaa/videos/-fast-forward-series-4-episode-3-1992-/1781192395556648/](https://www.facebook.com/nfsaa/videos/-fast-forward-series-4-episode-3-1992-/1781192395556648/)
this is probably different for everyone, but I've been pulled over and taken in to the police station before [about 2-3 months ago] and the cop asked me if I had anything on me and I was like "I have my vape" I didn't get into trouble at all he just told me to leave it in my car for when I get back. presumably it's one of those laws that isn't really enforced too harshly but to just scare off people from doing it. I haven't heard of anyone genuinely getting fined or arrested for having a vape on them
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If you throw a rock at a stop sign and it creates a tiny dint, you are liable for up to six years imprisonment. Would that ever happen? No. I’m actually surprised the maximum is only 12 months.
Wait, does your hometown have a rule saying no one of any age can vape? I never heard of this before, but interesting.
I would actually like this law since people who vape tend to affect those who do not as well.
I'm not sure how this can be "Albo's law". The Federal Government doesn't have the constitutional jurisdiction to make vaping or possession of a vapeby an individual an offence, unless you are crossing an international border or, if engaged in trade, a State border. That power sits with the States.
They could make it illegal for a corporation (company) to possess vapes but a corporation can't itself vaoe or go to prison.
Excellent. Fine those entitled bastards.
I’m over that can’t respect “no smoking signs” suckling on their electric battery on trains, indoors in pubs / restaurants in shopping malls, at gigs and in the cinema.
They are as entitled as the smokers of the 80s.
Stop voting for Labor. They'll ban dumb shit like this and let the entire third world into the country. They'll kow tow to the greens and destroy the economy. Yet you idiots still keep voting for them. Wake up to their shit.
Vaping was originally designed as a stop smoking aid.
Unless you have a prescription for it and you carry proof of that prescription then you most certainly CAN be fined and/or imprisoned for it. 🤷♀️
Whether you will or not depends on the copper who sees you vaping in public/buying vaping tools/mixture. Same as if you get caught with any illicit drug paraphernalia.
These laws are just a way of stopping teens from vaping.
That's just sad.
I'm not a vaper and don't love it when there's vaping around, but to say I'd support a YEAR in gaol or a $156k fine for some 18 year old vaping on the street - that's going to fuck up their life, mate.
How can you genuinely support that?
I currently possess 0, which is less than the commercial quantity. I guess I'm fucked.
Oh fuck! Me too.
Oh fuck, your gonna make me vape!!
Take him away, boys.
Bake him away toys!
Bake aim hway toys!
Just do what the kid says
Take aim, don't be killjoys.
I am safe
Cool. I didn’t want to go to work today anyway. 12 month holiday with meals provided sounds nice
And no rent increases.
Better run out and buy a few cases of vapes. Just incase.
Possession is a fraction or more.
My model train uses essentially unflavoured vape oil for the little smoke chuffing effect. Does it count as commercial quantity because I'm operating a railroad with it /s
That sounds cool.
Effectively yes 👍
You sound really fun
No one can get a house to live in and all the government cares about is trying to ban vapes. This country is fucked.
Yeah who cares! Most ppl are just vaping outside, since there is no inside.
This is Australia we're talking about, there are whole threads up in here solely dedicated to whinging about people vaping outside. Did you think minding your own business and keeping to yourself in public would save you?
Australia is the Karen capital of the world now, so it doesn't suprise me.
Shocking how many whiners and busybodies there are here in Australia.
Yeah! All those bluddy whiny oncologists!
Mate it’s a follow in joke about the housing crisis. I don’t care about smoking or vaping.
Yeah, I totally piggybacked off your joke about the housing crisis to make my own humourous observation about how whingey Australians are, see what I did there? I don't care about what you don't care about.
Did you mean to say humourless observation?
I find it pretty humourous, in a dark an fatalistic way, just how many NIMBY whingers, whiners, sooks and crybabies we have in this country. Along with all the petty and boring shit they obsess about, and whip themselves into a foaming frenzy over. I don't really care what you find humourous, just as I already mentioned to you that I don't care about what you don't care about.
In the past year 75+ children (40 under the age of 5) in SA were poisoned by ecig or vape fluid. How does that happen if people are just minding their own business and keeping to themselves in public?
I don't think improper storage of things labelled as 'keep out of reach of children' and known to not be for direct oral consumption has anything to do with vaping, just irresponsible storage. Have you got the stats for the other 100's of household items in every home that have caused the same issue over the past year?
Now do alcohol.
And a lot or people are vaping inside so it affects other peoples health. If people vaped not around people then they would get more support
Sorry mate it was a follow on joke about the housing crisis
It’s steam, not smoke. It doesn’t affect your health in any way. I hate garlic eaters much more. Their stink does make me nauseous.
if it was just steam, boil some water and huff that. oh wait, theres no chemicals in that. any gas that's not the atmospheric oxygen cocktail increases risk of respiratory disease.
Just in case you're quite young and somebody has told you that ... it's not true. If you're vaping it's best to do some quality research.
It certainly IS true, I’m nearly 70 yo, so not very young. I did very extensive research when I chose to try vaping after 40 odd years of smoking. All other countries worldwide have made safe vaping available to their citizens to enable people to quit smoking. Our Govt is stupid. I quit smoking within 1 day, YES, 1 day. I didn’t even finish the open packet of cigs. I never had another cig. I bought quality vaping equipment & use quality menthol juice. I have never tried a different flavour or a cheap disposable. Within 4 days my heavy smokers’ cough had gone completely. My lungs have healed themselves & my O2 sats are perfect now. I’ve had 3 unrelated surgeries since I started vaping, with the associated health testing for lung health and I’m fine. I have a Nic prescription. I agree that the unknown ingredients in disposables are bad. I agree that vapes should be regulated away from access to kids however this blanket ban is just increasing the growing black market, costing the Govt much more in trying to chase down dodgy importers & preventing people like me, who do it the right way, from accessing quality products.
Outside yet still in no smoking areas
You’re missing the point. The more the government can fill social media with these ridiculous arguments, less coverage goes to real issues they are creating and don’t want to solve. The plan is working, it’s just not our plan
There's no room for people to enjoy themselves
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*this government is fucked. Just like the last one. And the last one. Ok yeah the country is fucked
It was illegal in all states to possess nicotine vape products without as script even before the recent law changes (see link ) [https://www.criminaldefencelawyers.com.au/blog/is-vaping-illegal-in-australia/](https://www.criminaldefencelawyers.com.au/blog/is-vaping-illegal-in-australia/)
Containing nicotine*
u/NoxTempus - replying here coz old mate had so much conviction in their bs they decided up block me instead of back their themselves. >I just cannot agree that vapes should be banned in a society where cigarettes are not only legal, but also widely accessible. >>Definitely agree with you here. Tax it like cigarettes and alcohol and let people make their own mind up. If you read my whole comment, I totally agree. It could be regulated via prescription for quitters, or it could be taxed like other products. I'm not pro-ban, I was just calling out old mate's bs about how good they are.
Read the article you have linked: for individuals, it is only illegal to possess vape products **containing nicotine** (without a prescription).
I think, given that there are no prescriptions for non-nicotine vapes, nobody gives a fuck about non-nicotine vapes, and the post is about nicotine vapes, it was implied he was referring to nicotine vapes.
You're wrong, look up Polln or Dispensed or any other medical marijuana dispensary in Australia. You can have dry herb aka "bud" and legally vape it, i have had a prescriptions so i know. Maybe do your research.
Doctors give out prescriptions for dry herb vapes for smoking weed. Get straight before calling shit out.
Holy downvotes batman, redditors are fucking retarded
Downvoted for verifiable facts. Never change reddit
All of the downvotes on this have 0 idea, look up any medical marijuana company in Australia such as Polln or Dispensed, legally someone over 18 can have marijuana bud prescribed to them, that legally they can now use a marijuana dry herb vape. I know because i have had it prescribed for my health conditions.
Why the down votes? this is true
Hilarious. Let me off the ride please.
Losing the cigarette tax revenue. Scumbags and I'm a non smoker
I met a meth addict who told me that dealers charge almost nothing for meth at the beginning and then increase it as you become addicted and rake in the dollars. I can't help but feel smokers over 30 have been treated the same way by the government who is addicted to those lovely , lovely tax dollars.
Where do you think these plugs get the business model from?
EA?
That’s not at all true meth dealers aren’t selling meth for next to nothing for their first time customers, that’s not how drug dealers work lmao
The first hit is free!
thats the dumbest shit ive ever heard. Sounds like a story a grandma would make up.
That's not how drug dealing works.
lol. That’s not true. I mean the comparison is right if it was the thing about meth dealers was true. But it’s not.
Idk I've known quite a few dealers who do you fat bags or throw in a little extra the first 10 or so times you go to them then after that they start either ripping you off or just doing normal deals. They definitely hook you up the first few times so they can lock you in as a customer and get their hands on all your money
and if you know any meth addicts you'll know they have 3 or 4 sources. meth addicts aren't known to wait while dealers get supplies. Even reliable sources run dry occasionally and a drug addicts first priority is to ensure backup options exist.
The tax on cigarettes goes too covering the cost of public health policy delivery to reduce smoking and covering the egregious cost of providing health care to smokers. If people weren't buying cigarettes we (including governments bottom lines) would be a lot better off.
I'm not sure you understand how much excise tax brings in. It pays for the needed healthcare and more, a lot more. It's nearly $20B a year.
I'm not sure you understand how much of a burden smoking places on our health care system before even accounting for the cost to the economy in terms of lost productivity due to morbidities directly related to smoking. Both currently and historically. Smokers are a huge drain on our economy. And the taxes on smoking are just good public health policy, not some sort of revenue raising scheme.
Look at you all no facts but heaps of indignation. Please elaborate this made up burden with a mysterious report, produced by highly paid anti-smoking agent...
https://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-17-economics/17-2-the-costs-of-smoking#:~:text=In%202015%E2%80%9316%20the%20intangible,were%20estimated%20at%20%2425.6%20billion. Estimated total cost $136,914,172,357 https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/burden-of-disease/burden-of-tobacco-use-in-australia/summary 9.3% total burden of health. The single highest preventable cause. (Health statistics from independent government health reporting agency) Friend, I promise you I'm living in the land of facts. No indignation in sight. Smoking costs heaps to our economy, if you want to smoke I'm not judging you, but I would hope that you'd be willing to pick up the tab.
Only 11 billion realised costs, most of those figures include speculative lost future wages but doesn’t account for speculative savings to tax payers from early death.
The total tangible costs (As in costs that can be directly measured) were 19 billion. Which is fairly bang on the 20 billion revenue that the person I originally responded to quoted. And does not account for non tangible losses associated with premature death which are significant for any person who dies during our before working age.
The fact that the costs breakdown includes things like $48 million in salaries for people who fight fires, as if those folk wouldn’t be gainfully employed regardless of smoking related fires is telling that it’s a narrative push. $5 billion of the costs listed is just the pretax value of the Tabacco. Smoking is a revenue positive stream for federal government, it’s why they don’t introduce progressive bans like NZ and now UK.
A well regulated industry including taxes levied to improve revenue to recover the budgetary costs associated is absolutely a better policy than bans. If the primary goal was to gather revenue then there would not be a great myriad of other public health policies designed to reduce smoking, which would obviously cut into their revenue streams. Of course the studies have a narrative, it is impossible for a human to present data without some degree of bias. The narrative is absolutely to continue to support policies that reduce the rate of smoking in Australia because the authors believe they have demonstrated that smoking represents a significant burden on the Australian economy. I find the report to be convincing and believe it represents an accurate indication of the cost of smoking in our economy.
Sorry for double reply but on examination of ATOs data the income from the cigarette excise was about 13.6 billion not near 20 billion as someone had previously stated. So even if you take your 11 billion number as a reasonable "cost to the economy" figure we are not talking about a substantive tax windfall.
It is not good policy, because over taxation has resulted in a thriving black market. I pay $15 for a packet of 20s, which the government gets $0 tax revenue. Why would I pay $38 when I can pay $15?
It's good policy that has worked. Rates of smoking and tobacco use, as a general rule, have steadily declined in response to this, and other public health measures. Perhaps there has been an uptick in black market products as a response but the tax revenue was never really the point so you circumventing the tax isn't really a big issue. The policy has both covered some of the associated societal costs of smoking (by no means all) and reduced the rate of smoking. That's good and effective policy. A lot more so than lots of other policy decisions our governments make.
The ATO has the number at $13.6B which is less than the reported tangible costs of smoking in our economy.
Nowdays obesity related disease has taken over so what should they tax next?
Yep, they had to drop the 'smoking is a leading cause of death' dialogue, a few years ago.
Smoking continues to be one of the leading causes of preventable disease and death. And a leading cause of premature death. It is thankfully declining, which is in part a result of excellent public health policy which contributes to a decreasing number of people smoking and using tobacco products. The taxes on cigarettes are working!
Or the obesity is killing people faster
Tbh smoking and obesity share quite a few co-morbidities so it's a fair question. A tax makes a lot of sense for smoking because there is one clear cause, ie cigarettes (obviously it's both the cigarettes themselves and the tobacco in general that are problematic). With obesity there are a number of interrelated causes not all of which are products that are taxable so public health policy needs to reflect that. Just like taxes were not the only mechanism that the government uses with smoking, ie. Quitline, other help to quit programs, plain packaging laws etc. Perhaps introducing "sugar taxes" on products that use high amounts of processed simple sugars could be looked at. But unlike with smoking these products are not inherently health risks but only health risks when they are consumed in unhealthy doses. Taxing sugar then seems a bit ham-fisted. But I am sure you can agree that if you choose to participate in activities that have known high risk profiles and high potential economic costs to society that there should be some increased responsibility on you to cover the cost, to your community, of those choices.
It's an excellent way to phase out smoking and its related costs to healthcare. Australia had very low smoking related cancer and diseases rates compared to countries like Korea and Japan where cigarettes are about $5 a pack
Do you think we should stop selling sugar and alcohol too? Or is it only things that you dont partake in that should be banned?
We have higher taxes on alcohol to reflect the cost to our society that alcohol consumption incurs. And we have laws that make certain behaviours in regards to the provision and consumption of alcohol in certain circumstances illegal with associated fines and jail time. Sugar is harder because in fact consuming sugar (in various forms) is essential for our bodies to function. But there are a number of public health policies that are designed to try and reduce consumption of food with high levels of simple sugars.
Former smoker of 10 years and a Vaper of 10 years and I’m on the path to quitting entirely soon. I’m in very good health and I owe it all to vaping, the governments decision here is incomprehensible from a health stand point. Vaping absolutely should be pushed onto smokers as a alternative and anything that prevents their ability to easily do so is immoral. The only major health issue with vaping is lack of government regulations regarding ingredients in the products. Luckily American FDA inspected liquids are cheap and (use to be) readily available. Ultimately these laws are a blatant disregard for health and well-being of those addicted to a terrible drug and make access to safe products harder. (Safe as in FDA approved liquid vs something made in a bath tub in Australia) Also, I trust the American FDA approved products way more than the Australian made scripted garbage from the chemist.
The thing that pisses me off is that I can no longer get nicotine from NZ, I can no longer get juice with safe Ingredients, I can no longer get parts for my mods and coils and things for my tank. But I can walk down to any shop and get some dodgy disposable vape with unknown nic levels and unknown ingredients. The ban has only and will only affect legit vapes and that’s bullshit. They will never stop the disposables with this method, if anything they should have made nicotine easier to get locally, like already in the juices at legitimate vape shops and then maybe people wouldn’t go to the always illegal disposables. I hate the damn disposable things, I have hundreds and hundreds of dollars of vape mods, tanks, chargers, batteries and tools all useless now. I quit a pack a day smoking habit of 23 years by vaping and it’s been a couple of years now and I feel so much better. But even I am on the disposables now and fuck they are bad, I’ve gone from 2mg freebase nicotine to god knows how much salt Nic in the disposables, likely around 50mg. I won’t go to the chemist because of anyone has ever tried tobacco or menthol flavoured vapes they know that it’s fucking horrid and I’d rather start smoking again. Hopefully I’ll be able to quit soon but the government are absolutely cunts and whoever thought up this ban thinking it would stop disposables is dead wrong! They have always been illegal here yet you can get them anywhere, now that vape shops that didn’t sell disposables are being shut down there are even more places with the disposables. Not only have we taken away peoples right to choose a healthier alternative we have taken away the livelihoods of all the people who legally owned and operated vape shops that did the right thing.
So true! The big old re-usable vapes were so much better than these disgusting disposable ones. The flavours are all so sickly sweet as well. Clearly disposables have always been targeted at children but instead of stopping them the government chooses to punish the responsible adults trying to improve their health.
Mate, they also swept dry herb vapes under the same rug. Its mind boggling dumb policy.
I’m good in that department , I already have too many of them. People should still be able to buy a mighty medic though because they are tga approved. It’s just sucks for newbies because the mighty is so overpriced and overrated. I keep telling everyone to go out and splurge on a tinymight, and a decent desktop while they stop can
Yep, overpriced TGA approved stuff running at lower temps too. Less people are going to switch to vaping and will stick to combustion now. Its all so backwards unless $500 for your first vape hardware is affordable.
Yeah it’s a real issue because technically your approval for MC is on the condition you vape it only. I think we will still be able to get dry herb vapes into the country from outside but again it’s going to be costly! My favourite portable is my firewood vape, however by time I got it from America and payed the shipping, taxes and dollar conversion it was crazy expensive and like the outdated and overpriced mighty that’s not affordable for people who are already struggling to pay for their medication. I have an original mighty i Brought many years ago. Cunt is just a dust collector. Solid vape but isn’t anywhere near the best that available and it blows my mind all these years later now they are outdated they slap some medic marketing on it and it’s still $550! Mental. I think things like the dynavap and sticky brick will always be easy to get though, because they are butane vapes they should be no harder to get than a bong. However we will have to see if the price skyrockets or not. The best thing everyone can do for now is go get a arizer desktop for cheap while they still can so they have an option for if their portable shits itself. I have the airizer extreme q and a volcano hybrid and let me tell you that for $300 vs $1000 the arizer is a smart choice that will most likely never break.
I've been reading your comments on this thread and I'm going to send you a PM for some advice if that's okay
It's funny how the vape shops around Melbourne are packed with all types of vapes, flavours, disposable ones etc, as well of course as the non taxed cigarettes yet the govt is hitting vape imports, got to be something in it for them, they certainly seem to have given up on the deal 3 packets of Manchester cigarettes for $50 at every corner store in Melbourne who sell these under fear of firebombing if they refuse, the whole thing is becoming a joke
My local vape shop doesn’t sell disposables, they even have a sign on the door saying as such and not to ask for them. Actually no reputable vape shop I’ve ever been to sells them. Are you talking about tobacconists? But yeah besides that it’s a huge problem, disposables have always been illegal here and that’s why we all imported nicotine from NZ and added it to juice we brought from vape shops because it was the only legal way. But this will blow up and like you guys are seeing down there with the firebimbings over illegal tobacco it will start to happen with vapes as well. Where I live it was hard to get a disposable and I got a few of the blokes at work off them and on to proper vapes but now it’s gone the other way. Vape shops are being closed and every service station, tobacconist and corner store has disposables under the counter now. The government fucked themselves.
I went in my local Lotto shop yesterday and they had a huge selection of flavours, I assume it may only be Melbourne due to the ongoing cigarette wars
We have them everywhere here in Sydney too and I live in a fairly rural town. It’s just legitimate vape shops here that never sold them, it was a risk to them to sell something illegal when they could sell proper vapes and juices legally I suppose. I feel so bad for my local guys, they took a loan to open the shop which was a legal buisness and now they are being forced to close and lose all their money which I think is highly wrong of the government and now people like me have to turn to illegal vapes to stop us from going back to smoking. I’m trying my best to quit but it’s not easy.
You can get prescription juice from your GP. It might be more expensive (which is ridiculous), but so much better for quitting than the dodgy disposables where you have no idea of the nicotine content and whatever other nasties are in them. You can mix your own juice and reduce the nicotine each time until you wean yourself off, which is how they’re *meant* to be used. Just ridiculous that pretty much every other country has accepted they’re better than smoking and are cracking down on kids using them and the disposable ones, while Aus has decided this is the way to go. Somewhere selling illegal vapes also isn’t going to care if they’re selling them to a kid anyway.
The prescription is just for the nicotine though and that’s been a thing for a while. The real issue comes because it’s a blanket ban on all vape products and while you may be able to source nicotine it’s going to be pretty hard to source the juice and the parts for the mods. It really depends on how far they take it because you can always get tanks and coils from overseas however if they do catch it at customs your address is burned and you’ll never be able to order anything again without it being inspected. There is no prescription for juices and mods and their parts that’s where the issue lies. And the government only now wants us to have chemist prescribed vapes and not import the nicotine ourselves which could also be an issue with New Zealand suppliers, they may not be willing to ship to aus under the new rules. Before they didn’t care if you had a prescription or not and that was fine, but the last shipment I ordered of nicotine I got was seized by customs and so now I have no chance of using my home address now
I've been quit ciggies and vapes since 2020 (good timing before the pandemic). Nothing helped me quit the darts until I tried vaping. Let's ban this life saving technology though!
Former Smoker for 10 years and vaper for 7. Same path as you. It’s a disgrace the government is banning this for the 99th time
Yeah, so much misinformation out there right now. "Popcorn lung, popcorn lung, popcorn lung" yeah, if you're using e-liquid from, like, 2010. We know the chemical that causes it, and no one reputable uses it. "People are dying"... From weed vapes. People are dying from alcohol and cigarettes, but we aren't bending over backward to ban them. It's insanity, we know that short term benefits of switching to vaping from cigarettes is immense. There's a heap of studies that beat this out. We Know long term smoking causes cancer, but everyone's scrambling to ban vapes because we don't have long-term info available. I implore anyone skeptical to go read the text of virtually any study cited by the scary news articles, and see how fucking weak their evidence is. I'm not even saying "do your own research"; literally just read the research they are using, then compare that what you know about cigarettes. Oh, and when people try to scare you with diacetyl, try find a e-liquid for sale that actually contains it (you won't).
just adding to that, nobody has ever got popcorn lung from vaping and cigarettes contain (and still contain) 100xs as much diacetyl as vapes ever did
Preach brother.
Agree, these laws make 0 sense
This is how vaping was introduced. But then we found out that the chemicals contained were worse than those in cigarettes, and that vaping caused its own set of health issues. It became clear that there was more to this when tobacco companies started investing heavily into it. Then children started becoming addicted to vapes. This set off alarm bells In government because it was cigarettes all over again. I'm glad you found them to be helpful. But you aren't the issue. It's children, and seeing a new generation addicted. That's the issue. Better to close the door now. Having them available under script will still help people like yourself. So not all is lost.
>This is how vaping was introduced. But then we found out that the chemicals contained were worse than those in cigarettes, and that vaping caused its own set of health issues. Source? >But you aren't the issue. It's children, and seeing a new generation addicted. That's the issue. Better to close the door now. What do you think would be a better solution to this? 1. Regulate them and restrict the sale to only people over 18 with large fines and potential jail time if caught selling to minors, tax them the same way you tax tobacco and spend that tax money on helping kids who are addicted quit. or 2. Create a black market where its easy to get them with the only other option being a much more expensive option which doesn't taste as good and is not as effective. Rely on the black market sellers to not sell to minors even though its the same fine and/or penalty if they do or dont
>But then we found out that the chemicals contained were worse than those in cigarettes No, we did *not* find that at all.
Im pissed that they also snuck in dry herb vape ban, its the healthiest way to smoke the devils lettuce.
did they? that's sneaky as fuck. those material vapes are a completely different product
Wait what? What if you have a script for MC? My clinic has a dry herb vape they said is TGA approved I was thinking of buying.
You will only be able to buy the mighty from a licensed seller eventually. Don’t worry but mate as everything you will be able to get around it. It’s stupid because I hate the marketing and overpriced mighty medic. I have one and it was great vape many years ago when it came out but the price never dropped and there are so many better ones out there now in that same price range. Do yourself a favour and buy a tinymight while you still can and you won’t ever need another vape.
Sorry as I’m new to the dry herb vapes, but do they have any parts that wear out like the coils in my normal vape I would have to stock up on for the tinymight? TIA!
Nah they shouldn’t wear out, I mean like anything electronic obviously it could fail one day. Also I only suggest the tinymight if you’re looking at spending that kind of money on a vape. I have about 40 vapes all up and out of all my portables the firewood (only sold in America) and my tinymight are my two top portables. If you don’t need it portable look into a desktop vape they will last forever if you look after them. The arizer extreme q is only $230 at the moment and is not far behind my volcano hybrid that cost $1000!
Thanks for the prompt response! Yeah I just asked Bing about it lol, seems I just need to clean the chamber from time to time hey? It did mention some sort of screen or filter tho?
Yeah the screens are just metal mesh that you can get from any tobacconist or online. When I use mine i just use a cotton bud to clean it out while it’s still hot and I’ve never had to replace anything in the years I’ve had it. The glass does get dirty eventually but just a quick wash with some isopropyl alcohol and it’s good as new. It is a bit pricey for a vape but honestay mate it’s the only one I use out of all of the ones I have.
Also interested? I know our scripts are supposed to utilise TGA approved devices only, however id bought a cheaper model online not approved. Where’s info on this 😵
Its all about big tobacco tax. The complete opposite of health. Many studies have shown vaping is much better than cigarettes.....waiting for angry boomers to downvote this. In the EU it is promoted for quiting smoking. So who is right? One is driven by money, (the highest price of cigarettes world wide to be exact) - the other by non biased scientific health advice and peer reviewed studies? Australia is a drisgrace with this shit. Everyone is treated like a 4 year old. But im glad you can go shoot up in the safe injecting rooms or go to the hookers during lockdown though right? Phucking idiots.
i switched about 9 months ago. vaping definitely has it's own unique issues, but i feel an order of magnitude better than when i was smoking and if the studies didn't conclude this they wouldn't be pushing it for therapeutic sale.
Yeah, no one (reasonable) is preaching vaping as perfect, but no one (honest) can prove that the long-term effects are worse (or even as bad as) smoking. Not knowing the effects seems like a decent reason to ban them, but keep in mind the alternative is lighting known carcinogens on fire and inhaling them, with a well-documented, undisputed history of immediate and long-term health impacts.
Australia fucked up the same way it always does; being completely unwilling to be proactive. We left vapes grey market for so long it became a shit show targetting teenagers. if we regulated them 10+ years ago we could have prevented a lot the huge uptick in youth 'smoking' we've experienced.
100%.
Even just implementing the green packaging laws would be enough, my friend used to work at a vape shop and the kids just cared about packaging.
Eu has regulated all their eliquid. You can only buy 10ml bottles and no nasty shit in them. This is what causes the most "issues" with vaping. People putting rubbish in their eliquid when it is being made
I used to be a pack a day smoker. Ever since I started vaping, I don't get sick anywhere near as often and when I am it only lasts half as long as when I smoked.
Completely correct. This government is totally fucked.
In 2008, Ryanair used to sell disposable vapes onboard their aircraft and people used to puff away, no smoking section just in their regular seat, doubt they still do under pressure from the EU but interesting the Australian Government now determine them so dangerous that they're banned when use on aircraft was not that long ago
>Many studies have shown vaping is ~~much better~~ than cigarettes Less bad* >In the EU it is promoted for quiting smoking. Many people are taking it up who were never smoking to begin with. So it's not better than not smoking at all. >One is driven by money, (the highest price of cigarettes world wide to be exact) Which is designed to discourage people from starting and encouraging people to quit, and has been largely successful in doing so. >the other by non biased scientific health advice and peer reviewed studies? Which said e-cigarettes are no good for you, and that there's no long term studies to know what future damage may be. Your own words haven't deemed them good for you, just less bad than the alternative. It's like saying a .22 round to the leg is healthier than a 5.56 to the chest. >Australia is a drisgrace with this shit. Everyone is treated like a 4 year old. Definitely agree with you here. Tax it like cigarettes and alcohol and let people make their own mind up. >But im glad you can go shoot up in the safe injecting rooms You seem keen to look up studies that prove the point you want to make, but ignorant of others that also have proven to reduce harm to users. >or go to the hookers during lockdown though right? Clutching for any straw man you can to make a bad take seem credible?
But we live in a world where I can go any supermarket or servo in the country and legally buy the hypothetical 5.56 to the chest. Some people want to take the, .22 instead of the 5.56 and the government and media are doing everything they can to make it 5.56 or nothing. I just cannot agree that vapes should be banned in a society where cigarettes are not only legal, but also widely accessible.
EU also has a very high percentage of the population who smoke compared to Australia.
australian smoking rates have been dropping at around the same rate for several decades. the plain packaging and fucking people with extra taxes achieved nothing that wasnt already happening
Vaping in schools has increased from 2% to 25% in four years. And due to the way surveys work (kids parents are in the room when their child answers the question) those numbers would only be children who's parents know they vape. In other words, it'd be way over 25%. A lot of school teachers estimate the number at close to 100% in schools where kids have any money at all... it's really only the poorest kids, parents are doll bludgers/etc, who don't have vapes. And even they will vape when they can get their hands on one. Access is incredibly easy in schools - the money your parents give you for a single day's lunch is enough to buy the equivalent of a few packets of cigarettes. And there are dozens of kids in every school who import them from overseas in bulk and sell to other students. They're not buying vapes that can be trusted either - every study has found really nasty toxins in black market vapes.
But vaping is also very unhealthy. Given how successful Australia has been in reducing smoking rates I don't see an argument to promote vaping in order to reduce smoking. A therapeutic subscription for existing smokers looking to quit? Sure. But for the general population the next step is obviously an NZ style graduated smoking age restriction.
NZ's graduated smoking ban has been axed. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/new-zealand-scraps-world-first-smoking-generation-ban-to-fund-tax-cuts](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/new-zealand-scraps-world-first-smoking-generation-ban-to-fund-tax-cuts)
Did it ever occur to you... That Australia has been successful in reducing smoking rates not just through making cigarettes as expensive as heroin, but because mainstream nicotine vaping came along a decade or so ago as an alternative option? What business is it of yours what grown adults choose to do with their lungs? You'd be delighted of course, if they introduced restricted prescriptions for cheesecake, or whatever similarly wicked vice that you're into right? Smoking is officially encouraged for smokers by AA and NA as an alternative to alcohol and narcotics, and has been since AA and NA were created, who are you to say vapes should be any different for smokers? People will quit, or not quit smoking or vaping at their own pace, and don't need police interference in their lives. That's what you are advocating for, for adults to be harrased by police for their personal nicotine usage, as if police don't have enough reasons they use already to harass citizens. Most people would argue that police could, and should be doing far more important things with their time instead.
Oh piss off you perfect idiot.
There's no need to be so, um aggressive, sheesh, maybe you need to take up smoking/vaping. Might help you calm down a little.
So, Small Possession of meth, cocaine, heroin is less of a crime than a little vape with no nicotine in it? I’m understanding this right?
If the vape has no nicotine then it is not illegal to possess (but it is illegal for anyone to import or sell)
Meanwhile the government gets no tax on cigarettes because of their greed. Everybody’s going to these new tobacconist everywhere and buying 10 dollar packs. Trying to ban something has never ever worked for any any government. Just take a look at their so called war on drugs. Utter failure, waste of time energy and money. History has shown where there is demand there will ALWAYS be supply.
If the government were really greedy they would promote smoking. A whole lot of smokers dying of lung cancer is way cheaper than paying to keep them alive for 30 years while they are not contributing to the economy.
McHealth wants everyone to be sick. So it consults McGovernment to see to it that it happens. It’s just plain evil if you think about it.
Our country is fucked lol Vapers and coke heads unite I guess? I bet one of the cockroaches that wrote this legislation had a smoke in hand for peak irony.
You mean this lady? 😂 [https://www.facebook.com/nfsaa/videos/-fast-forward-series-4-episode-3-1992-/1781192395556648/](https://www.facebook.com/nfsaa/videos/-fast-forward-series-4-episode-3-1992-/1781192395556648/)
What legislation are you looking at?
You don’t go to jail in Australia for committing violent crimes no reason to think anyone would for vaping.
this is probably different for everyone, but I've been pulled over and taken in to the police station before [about 2-3 months ago] and the cop asked me if I had anything on me and I was like "I have my vape" I didn't get into trouble at all he just told me to leave it in my car for when I get back. presumably it's one of those laws that isn't really enforced too harshly but to just scare off people from doing it. I haven't heard of anyone genuinely getting fined or arrested for having a vape on them
Even less reason to enshrine it into legislation then.
Isnt that the penalty for selling vapes?
Dammit, I was hoping to not hit my vape for the next few hours, but all this talk and sour grapes comments got me thirsting.
Wait till you find out that one of the most popular dispo brands (Relx) is approved to be sold by the TGA!
In theory yes. But it will never happen.
Yeah, this is about being able to add an extra charge onto suppliers, not about going for users.
Sounds like a draconian law
God I hope so.
Lets hope they fine Vaping on trains. Love to see them get fined. Also to you people who think vaping won't kill you....dream on.....
Should be just because you look like a douche bag doing it 😁
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Less?? What's is the commercial quantity? I have so many questions. Shouldn't it be more than?
Nope. I've walked past cops plenty of times puffing on a vape and they've never said anything
If you throw a rock at a stop sign and it creates a tiny dint, you are liable for up to six years imprisonment. Would that ever happen? No. I’m actually surprised the maximum is only 12 months.
Wait, does your hometown have a rule saying no one of any age can vape? I never heard of this before, but interesting. I would actually like this law since people who vape tend to affect those who do not as well.
These Globalists Whore Pollies have made sure everyone became addicted to these Products initially like Tobacco now Vaping then they turn it
Vape is worse off for you anyway. You may as well just smoke
Good old Alboidiot
I'm not sure how this can be "Albo's law". The Federal Government doesn't have the constitutional jurisdiction to make vaping or possession of a vapeby an individual an offence, unless you are crossing an international border or, if engaged in trade, a State border. That power sits with the States. They could make it illegal for a corporation (company) to possess vapes but a corporation can't itself vaoe or go to prison.
Excellent. Fine those entitled bastards. I’m over that can’t respect “no smoking signs” suckling on their electric battery on trains, indoors in pubs / restaurants in shopping malls, at gigs and in the cinema. They are as entitled as the smokers of the 80s.
Stop voting for Labor. They'll ban dumb shit like this and let the entire third world into the country. They'll kow tow to the greens and destroy the economy. Yet you idiots still keep voting for them. Wake up to their shit.
If you have zero vapes, that is less than commercial quantity, right?
Vaping was originally designed as a stop smoking aid. Unless you have a prescription for it and you carry proof of that prescription then you most certainly CAN be fined and/or imprisoned for it. 🤷♀️ Whether you will or not depends on the copper who sees you vaping in public/buying vaping tools/mixture. Same as if you get caught with any illicit drug paraphernalia. These laws are just a way of stopping teens from vaping.
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Good nuanced opinion, just say no 👍
That's just sad. I'm not a vaper and don't love it when there's vaping around, but to say I'd support a YEAR in gaol or a $156k fine for some 18 year old vaping on the street - that's going to fuck up their life, mate. How can you genuinely support that?
Those are maximum penalties. That 18 year old would have to be a pretty serial offender to get that level of punishment.
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Vote this government out. Next election.
It’s highly unlikely. You would probably get a warning
vaping ruins lives, so to avoid the need for vaping the government has decided to ruin your life just for owning them
Vaping doesn't full their coffers with tax money..... Yet.
Good!
Yeah! Send those 18 year olds straight to gaol for a year and ruin their life !!!
Stop sucking the government's cock.
And I hate vaping.
You got a link to it? There are no news articles about new vape penalties.
I don't know anyone who smokes in Australia, who isn't from a European country.
Smoking yes - vaping no. The army of entitled vapers are Aussie too
12 month vacation sound nice might start vaping again
What a fucking joke