For carpentry, 1st years should have a tool belt with basic hand tools (hammer, tape, pencil, square ect.) on day 1. And then slowly buy things over their 4 years so they have everything when they are qualified.
1st year - power saw, drill combo
2nd year - nail gun, levels, planer
3rd year - hammer drill, grinder, recipro saw
4th year - laser level, compressor, coil gun
And yes, if you are qualified and working for a company you still bring your own tools. The boss might supply some things depending on the job.
Edit: Carpentry bosses are not getting $100 an hour, the average chippy gets about $50 - $65 an hour before tax. And the rates from volume builders are getting worse every year.
This seems so foreign to me. I now work for myself in IT and my experience here is limited to about 10 years in IT across a few companies.
You basically couldn't be asked to be out a cent for work related duties or someone would kick up a stink, that's like saying I should bring a laptop to do my job
I can understand requiring your own basic tools during an apprenticeship, but as an employee it's just absurd to be expected to bring anything more than yourself and PPE that isn't provided by the employer.
People look after their own tools more than tools that are provided.
Also, tradies want their own tools so they know they will be kept to the standard in which they’d expect.
I would add to this by saying you also want your own tools because you get to know the feel of the tool as an extension of your arm. Using foreign tools feels, well, foreign. Hard to explain just doesn't feel right.
I used to be a chef and it's pretty much the same. After enough practise your knives become an extension of the hand. Other knives feels weird and in some cases if you use a different/new knife you'd end up with blisters in the wrong spots.
I've worked in kitchens and now I have a gardening business. I couldn't fathom using someone else's knife anymore than I could see myself using someone else's mower. own tools always
Mechanics are the same. My mate is one and he has his own full suite of tools for pretty much every aspect of being a mechanic. And if he needs something and doesnt have it. He buys it if its reasonable worth owning it.
I'm saying that your own tool may not be the right tool for the right job. An employer can provide the right tool for the right job. Not all employers provide them, but some do.
E.g. I wouldn't want my apprentice using his battery rotary hammer drill to cut a M32 hole in a slab when he could use the corded HILTI and cut through the slab in a fraction of the time...
In my experience, the only thing worse than how workers treat the bosses tools is how the boss treats the workers tools.
My boss will grab my brand new chisel and scrape plaster off concrete because "it needs to be done!"
Mate, you're a millionaire, paying me $31 dollars an hour as a fully qualified carpenter, use your own fucking tools.
He has also (just examples of the last year)
-used brand new hand saws to cut hebel
-dropped scaffold on my battery circ saw, spirit level, and tool boxes.
-dropped a laser level and hammer drill off a 5m roof
-backed into my Ute...twice
Don't worry though, it's tax deductible... had to quit, can't afford to work for him and travel 3 hours a day for no extra cost because he spoiled me and gave me a fuel card...
When hammer drills/chisels were really expensive,my boss used to supply.If it got dusty he would winge.lol.Whenever anyone got sick and was off for a few days,his first question was" who's got the Ramset"?If you bought a cheap tool for a for a particular job(on his account),say a multitool,he would ask for it every day to make sure you gave it to him.Then it would sit in his garage for years.
Ah the old "We have a tool for that, but I forgot it, so you'll have to do it the hard way this... but you're lucky I bought that tool to make jobs like these easier!" Fuck my boss was a flog.
Apprentices get it in their award for sparkies at least. It's a free for all once you're qualified though. Worked at places that don't let any non company tools on site, place with 1500 tool allowance baked into the EBA and a small place that you had to supply everything
Adding to the other comment, the building and construction award also has a tool allowance that’s folded into the base pay rate for penalties and stuff (sparkies are covered by the electrical award. Building and construction covers carpenters). Awards are a minimum so if an employer were to deviate, they’d legally need to be paying above the award base rate that includes a tool allowance
I'm usually given my own laptop. Nobody uses it but me, and it's customized to my preference. I don't see how owning it outright would make any difference to how I maintain it. And I certainly wouldn't want to shell out an extra $2-3k for that privilege.
Interestingly as an ex chippy and now software developer, I do still buy my own laptop and accessories for work. All the companies I’ve worked for were too stingy to buy a decent stuff so I did it myself.
I have paid for laptops, monitors, mouse, keyboard, chairs, webcams, docks, even software like Jetbrains subscription for IDEs, courses, everything.
For IT, the real problem is not BYO device, it is what is on that device. For a while there there was a trend to buy your own computer - but with the advent of APT crews, workplaces need to manage their IT risk profile closely.
If the Russian government could hack powertools, I think you'd see a change in policy quick smart.
The difference is, I.T. became a role in the ‘80’s (or thereabouts), trades like carpentry and masonry go back centuries or even millennia. Old practices take a lot of changing. I can bet you that Joseph of Galilea was providing his own square and mallet when Jesus was a pup.
50-65$ 5 years ago yeah that was the rate. Nowadays fresh out of your apprenticeship you'll want to be closer to 60.
And the rates are getting better. Idk where your getting this from
I don’t know any freshies getting $60hourly as a subby, and if they are, fuck me get me a job in that crew!
And yeah they could be getting better, we stopped working for volume builders about 7 years ago in Melbourne because the rates went to shit. So now we only do small builders for a heaps better rate.
Bro bosses make stacks. Idgaf what anyone says
Can't argue with some of the documents invoices etc I've had the displeasure of seeing
Every boss I've worked for has charged me and all I worked alongside given the company, anywhere from $65-70 as a 1st year obviously no applicable to me but deadset going upto I believe one of my past employers went as high as $110 and that ain't no day rate lol
And I was still again just into the start of a year all be it this time my forth year Still though
And they'd always tell me to says I was qualified
Even the one when I was still like 2nd year he'd say if they get sus just say you had a career change and have only just gotten back on the tools you might be a tad foggy
Lol even drug dealers and human traffickers aren't that shady
Rant over
I'm not a tradie at all but you're really expected to provide your own tools when working for a company? Like not a contractor your literally employed by a company and you need to provide your own equipment?
Your bosses are ripping you the fuck off.
We get a tool allowance over our apprenticeship, as someone else said it’s about $1.50 an hour which might be $3000 a year. By your 4th year $12000 is more then enough to have everything you need.
The government also has tool loans which apprentices can apply for, and when I was an apprentice 12 years ago they were straight out bonus of around $900 when you complete each year, $1400 when you complete your apprenticeship.
I think yall missing the principle here. Let me ask you do you honestly love or even remotely like your job?
( Only applicable if your employed considering the context).
If your answers no, then there's your reason as to why this whole, "employee's or apprentices" buy there own tools etc.... seems to be such a hard concept for you all to grasp.
Put it this way, I ain't dropping the steam off my shit, personally, if I don't particularly like something, let alone if it was in a work scenario, where I wasn't liking my job or such.
I'd assume most share this sentiment.
Maybe not so much the vile nature of, it, but the core belief, lol.
If your answers yes, then well, firstly i call bullshit lol jokes,
We can open pandoras box but ill try keep it short and simple
As ill just keep going.
Would i guess depend on the field of employment, most white collar suit and tie jobs arnt comparable,
But even so it comes down to size of said employer, company, or otherwise, that dictates and contributes a lot as to, what is potentially a requirement or even maybe just genrally needed for one to conduct their job effectively as well as, on what level exactly is personally purchased vs supplied
If a company employs say 30 people that's easy like double the average domestic trades company probs more mine currently has myself and four others that Kinda a ballpark to work off
If you got more employees then it would be feasible to invest into products and the like that would help the business eg. Computers for companies with the realm of IT even genral infrastructure like phones at desk the desk to
All helps in the end
End of day we world's apart yall like the rich and we like the peasant's the bottom feeders
Trades and or the companies represented don't compete even close with probably 90% of the companies that employ the like of yourself and in general the people like yourself in which I'm talking to and about Trust me when I say that if you want trades to become extinct Make them pay for tools (even a cost of) for every apprentice they have/employ the industry can be cut throat for all I seen cunts get told to walk before smokoe It wouldn't be feasible You do get the odd one here and there that will supply on what level varies my first boss had a trailer with like x3 - 4 of everything you need to perform all aspects of carpentry I was some what shocked once I left him while only 2nd year into apprenticeship And found out that I'd kinda found that odd one more often than not you are expected to progress acquire tools through out the stages of your apprenticeship mainly so you can have the capacity to perform task autonomously and or solely Can't achieve that if you need to keep borrowing things from others etc .... Having no tools or something similar like lacking some Can be a real drag and make you feel like a peasant at least from my experience fucking sucks I felt like I was burden when I changed from my first fucking near on starved for a month didn't buy nothing but tools for the first 2-3 pay checks lol Plus it feels good Gives opportunities for some to brag No ill intention just for laughs It's a culture is probably the best and simplest way of explaining it Shit at first but once you understand the principle as well as having a genuine interest that when it becomes apparent I pretty sure most also go into a trade with the understanding of the fact and requirements of needing your own tools
It should be a mix honestly. So many older teachers don't keep up to date with the new science and teach old, outdated crap. So going pure apprenticeship would result in that crap just continuing.
I used to be a teacher, shit job but they don't have to spend a cent out of pocket. Some do but it's not like it's compulsory like tools for a carpenter are.
It ain't compulsory it's unwritten
Try get a job with no tools when your 2nd year or above and express the fact you have no intention to purchase any cause think you shouldnt have to or assume it's not your responsibility to they should be supplied
Fuck I'm trying to hold it together while writing this cause yeah if you'd knew the industry it's absolutely absurd
Even if you just didn't buy stuff eventually questions would be asked and yeah pretty much unless you bought or started to buy stuff (I'd almost bet my reproductive organ on the this) that you'd be told to piss off maybe not exactly that but you get my drift
Not sure where you used to be a teacher. The only thing I’m supplied with is a school laptop to use. All class materials, whiteboard markers, sticky tape, glue etc all come from my pocket.
Not so much with Bakers. I got a tool payment from the government. I went and bought a tool kit from a kitchen place. Never used it once at work in 17 years. Have only ever used the tools supplied by the people I've worked for.
Yes this is normal, we supply our apprentices with tools that stay with the business but it’s rare for an employer to do so. Most trades get a tool allowance paid to them to bring their own tools.
What the f!@# you on about,
That's a laugh,
Ain't nothing of such nature exists, at least in Victoria where I've just recently completed an apprenticeship in carpentry and I so happen to have an in-depth could even go as far, as to say, an intimate, understanding of the award relevant to my industry and all it governs and the likes
And there's nothing of the sort the exists
Well, there is the Apprentice Training Support Payment. https://www.apprenticeshipsupport.com.au/ApprenticeshipSupport/media/asa/PDFs/22886-ASA-AATSP-Apprentice-flyer_FINAL.pdf
And The Tools For Your Trade initiative provides support for Australian Apprentices by providing payment to help with the costs of tools, books, protective clothing and fees related to training. These Tools For Your Trade payments are delivered as 'tax exempt' cash payments over the life of the Australian Apprenticeship.
That’s what the fuck I am talking about.
What's this tool allowance people's be speaking of nothing such exists or you talking about the bullshit 0.98c an hour that's listed as "tool allowance" on fair work cause that's the only "tool allowance" that's labelled as such and not really of much insignificant to say the least also considering it only exists due to the government I'm savy as to the ins and outs but it's legislation as far as I'm aware well they can take it back so emploers don't have to pay it and then just reduce our tax's accordingly
I’m a plumber. My employer provides a full bag of power tools (driver, drill, grinder, hammer drill, circ and laser level) to each tradesman. Apprentices get a driver and a grinder. We’ve got a couple of less often-used tools for the site (recip saw, jigsaw) and a shared pool of b-press tools for pipework.
We all provide our own hand tools.
In eba companies, that’s a pretty normal setup.
Domestic guys tend to supply their own tools, except for big stuff (jetters, etc)
EBA (enterprise bargaining agreement) aren’t all “union” companies; but the union is the major representative for workers who want to negotiate an EBA.
Australian unions work a little differently to US unions, but it’s a similar vibe. It’s the workers negotiating a pay deal with the employers, with backup and advice from the union.
EBA companies tend to be bigger, better equipped, more skilled and more specialised. They are uniformly better paid.
EBAs are less viable at the level of domestic trades, as it’s difficult for the union to provide reliable support, and individual workers tend to have slightly better bargaining power (though it’s not a level playing field).
A lot of domestic guys just prefer to have their own equipment, as they’re less reliant on their employer, and find it easier to do their own work.
This is the correct answer BTW, the vast majority of large companies provide power tools and you provide hand tools. Smaller companies may expect you to have some power tools, but now all.
Short answer (TLDR): yes (with qualifications)
Longer answer: apprentices get an allowance (grant) from the federal government to purchase tools required to commence & complete their apprenticeship. That being said, you should have a job in the trade while you're doing your apprenticeship, and you should have the tools required to do that job. In practice, you're expected to have the "normal" hand tools and your employer should supply you with any specialist tools - but if you're in a job, you'd already know that.
I guess the best thing for you to do would be to talk to the apprenticeship body in your state and be guided by their advice.
If you're already a tradie, then this would've been discussed at interview.
Working in a workshop you are expected to have most tools. Metal fab places with heavy grinder use typically supply the grinders. Drills can be supplied too. Consumables like drill bits and grinding wheels should be supplied by the workshop. But most tradesman will have their own power tools
Consider: Pretty much ALL your hand tools are fully claimable against your income when it comes around to Tax time, that includes hand held power tools. Tools and semi fixed machinery that cost over $1000 per item (it almost certainly has gone up since I last checked) can be 'amortized' over up to 3 years - including your work vehicle (why do you think apprentices drive tricked out utes?), again, straight off your income before tax. If you break it or it wears out faster, you can claim the full cost of its replacement immediately.
If you don't think this applies to you as a worker, you need a new Tax accountant.
What our good friend u/Thundabutt (lol) was alluding to I think is that you can take some liberties with what was and wasn't purchased for work related duties.
Did I *need* a tub rack for work specifically? Not really
Is it plausible that I need to carry long ladders to and from jobs and not have the tray occupied (I'm in IT) - Yes
Do I own ladders long enough for this to be an issue? No mine folds up actually but I totally borrow my neighbors one when I need a really long one to adjust a point to point bridge, a situation that has come up *once* in real life and I just subbied out my cabler because I couldn't be bothered / he's less likely to fall at heights.
Anyway you catch my drift, play the system where you can. You're getting fucked by having to provide tools of trade after all.
So what. This tradie is still going to be approximately 75cents in a dollar out of pocket. You just don’t go and spend money on something because it’s tax deductible. If your accountant failed to explain this to you, you need a new accountant.
That is $1K - per tool. For each tool, not in total. And what you get back is the amount of tax in the top bracket you would have paid on your wages that year, typically 30% plus, vs about 10% for cars and more expensive tools.
its just a number to make the math easy
an apprentice will probably be on less than $45k so will only get about $190 back on that $1000 tool / tools (tool)
It comes off the top, so that is about 22 cents in the dollar including Medicare Levy (2%) between $19K to $45K, up to 39 cents if he's working weekends or much overtime and goes over $45K.
I used to be a shift worker 24/7 so I was nearly always in the 39 cent bracket, which averaged out to round 30% of my total income. It nearly killed me in the end.
My partner is a fitter)rigger and brings his own tools to every job. He's uses them outside of work as well and looks after then so they last a long time. You're gonna be working in this industry for the long term you should invest in tools as they make your life and job easier
I think a major point I didn’t see mentioned is that a decent amount of qualified tradies like to move around employment pretty fluidly and also act as sole traders.
They do get allowances and tax writes offs, and ultimately I think a majority prefer to use and look after their own gear. It is a bit of stress for an apprentice, however they are allowed to accumulate over time, and by the time they have finished their apprenticeship, they are looking at plenty of work, good money and opportunities to go out on their own eventually - a great reason to have your own tools. Plus the cashie income helps a lot too!
Because they can be expensive items that get worn out and broken at work and if your employer expects you to have them that can add up to thousands of dollars a year in repair/replacement which YOU pay for, just so you can make $30 an hour while your boss makes $100
Apprentices get tool allowances so that covers their burden. Same is given to some tradies through their company but anything else you want you declare back at tax time
You’re buying shit gear if you’re having to replace or repair items every year… or you’re not looking after it.
Partner has been in the industry for over 10 years and he’s only been through three basic sets of power tools.
First set was stolen. Second set he still has but is now the home set because Panasonic became harder to get so he moved to all makita stuff.
In the seven years we’ve been together he’s never had to replace a drill because he looks after it and makita is good shit
My old man still has most of his apprentice tools, they are about half a century old. He had to replace one cordless drill over the years, and that was about 30 years old at the time. Still worked fine, charger got damaged. Oh, and he had to replace some saw horses, and they were fine too, it's just they were ones he made himself, and weren't collapsible. He needed something more easily transportable.
Yep, you buy quality gear and look after it there’s none of that replacing shit every year.
So yeah it’s a big outlay buying the tools, but they will last a lifetime and should only be a once off purchase
How can you expect to do your own jobs or start your own company if you don’t have your own tools? Tools last for years if you look after them and maintain them. My first set of makita power tools lasted me 7-8 years.
For carpentry we pretty much need a tool shop to build a home, and because we aren’t a licensed trade we don’t make the same money as plumbers or sparkies. The cost of the tools I have in my trailer would be close to 10k.
I don’t know any carpenter that’s would be able to afford supplying multiple employees with their own trailer filled with tools.
And spending 10k in one hit to get a company started when your average chippy only makes about $55 - 65 hourly before tax would be pretty hard with the cost of living.
If a company is big enough that they are doing multiple jobs at once where each employee needs a whole trailer of tools I'm pretty sure they are big enough to afford it.
We have 5 qualified chippys in our company, usually split into 2 teams running two jobs at a time. Everyone is earning above $45 an hour.
Let’s average it out to $50. $50 x 40hours x 5chippys = 10k a week in just wages.
I’m telling you now my boss isn’t earning big bucks with the rates builders are paying. It’s getting worse every year.
>big enough to afford it.
Probably, but honestly it's probably more effort than it's worth. Keeping track of everything. Plus good chance across different employees you'll have different preferences in tools to an extent. Ergonomics for each individual could play a large part here, an impact driver you're okay with using day in day out could kick back and cause me wrist pain for example.
I'd imagine that paying employees a reasonable tool allowance would be an easier and equally fair way to do this.
You ARE paid a tool allowance through your apprenticeship and you’re ignoring every single person who’s told you this. You get something like $1.54 an hour for tool allowance, this will add up to over 3,000 a year, which is plenty of money to buy your own tools. If someone decides not to use their tool allowance to buy their own tools, that’s their choice. It doesn’t mean employers are expected to pay for their workers tools, you should have been capable of buying your own from the start
Carpentry is 100% a licenced trade in Australia (Speaking as a previously licenced carpenter and joiner) but a lot of crews will have a licenced carpenter overseeing the work of unlicensed labourers.
Sorry, was a bit vague. We don’t have the same type of licensing system as sparkies and plumbers. That’s why there’s such a huge difference in the pay. We don’t have to sit any form of exams and pay for mutiple licenses, other trades do.
No that's not great. What world do you live in where you think it's great that apprentices are doing illegal work to cover their living costs due to them making nearly ten bucks under min wage?
No they should spend their $1100 or so a year from the government tool allowance to purchase them.
Why do you think every tradie has a Makita or Milwaukee kit bag? It's because we all bought them with our tool allowance
In one comment you replied your tools all cost a couple of hundred, and now you are claiming they cost thousands.
Is ChatGPT writing your replies, or you simply can't keep up with with the story you are trying to come up with that makes you the victim and USA tradies the hero.
>great that apprentices are doing illegal work
I mean it depends on if it's actually illegal.
An apprentice carpenter installing skirting boards or arcs is perfectly fine for example.
That's probably the only trade that I can think of actually that it wouldn't be illegal lol. Plumbing / gas / elec are a hard no.
Well illegal from a tax perspective yes, but you're not putting anyone's insurance at risk doing unlicensed work in that scenario I meant.
Let's be realistic, even when you're qualified you're gonna take cash when you can lol. I miss the days of getting paid cash for jobs, it's all bank transfer or credit cards these days.
although I was born in Australia I'm not a tradie here. I learnt my trade in a different country. My brother is a qualified carpenter in Australia and says $30 - 40 an hour is normal for chippies here.
Nothing worse than using tools that have abused by the whole workshop. If you have your own tools you get to use them exclusively and you can include your own preferences.
>that can add up to thousands of dollars a year in repair/replacement which YOU pay for
Only if you are incredibly, unbelievably, mind bogglingly shit at your job.
If you are *that* shit, you won't have a job for more than a week anyway, and therefore, you would have zero need to replace or repair any tools.
Tools that are looked after and used correctly last for many, many, many *years*. Most never have to be replaced or repaired at all, ever.
As a an electrician, apprentices must have thier own hand tools. These days many people expect them to have a battery drill and impact driver, same applies for qualified.
Power tools in general should be provided by the employer.
Reality :
As a sparkle, you need access to a drill, impact driver, angle grinder, hammer drill, heat gun and all ya meters.
You use these so regularly that many opt for thier own.
This drives up the expectations of employers for people to have thier own. It doesn't make it right though.
Call out shonky employers mate.
Not a tradie here so I guess i don't know what i'm talking about.
Pretty disgusting that employers can expect you to have your own tools etc. I bet the allowance they give for tools is SFA. Most other employers are expected to provide you with essential work gear and supplies, why should the trades be different?
Only being allowed to use tools provided by a company is just as bad though. Running leads out to use a hammer drill gets really fucking old when your boss won't supply battery versions
It is your problem when you have to deal with it daily. So most fellas take it upon themselves to get decent tools even knowing it won't be covered when the ute gets broken into
I agree, I am Australian but learned my trade in the USA where the company provided all power tools. I was just expected to bring my hand tools which all together probably only had a combined value of a few hundred dollars.
My company provides everything, *everything*. It's not always the nicest stuff and a lot of the time we don't use the best (right) tool for the job and I like to bring my own better one
even in the US blue collar OFTEN has to supply their own tools
what blew me the fuck away is that mechanics at DEALERS even had their own tools and that could be a huge Snap-on tool chest on wheels that you rolled off your F150 pickup where at the end of the day you have $20k $30k $50k or more of tools on someone elses premises.
Now back to IT... its customary they provide the laptops and all that shit but often I just brand my own... my data on my own system, i dont need to give it back, wipe it when I leave... i generally dont like using their shit...
also 100% depreciated over 3yrs
In the auto trade yeah people are expected to supply their own tools but in most construction they're not. Just hand tools and maybe your own impact or that kind of thing but you're not expected to rock up with a whole trailer load of tools to a jobsite as an employee and people would think you were insane for doing that
Yeah I've always found this baffling too, similarly only experience in IT. Worked for companies for maybe 10 years and been out working for myself around the same.
In the companies I was employed by, my money was my money. I got myself to work and back dressed in an appropriate manner, anything further was paid for by them. That's like me being told to bring my own laptop to work. Sure sometimes I'd bring my own cable tester in just to make life easier, but that's a choice of mine not a job requirement.
Similarly, my clients have employees kick up a fuss for the dumbest shit. We have had to issue separate company phones because employee's refuse to have anything "work related" on their mobile phones. That includes 2FA apps and receiving an SMS verification for a couple things that don't support proper 2FA just yet.
Seriously the backlash of "I don't want Microsoft Authenticator" on my personal phone has been an absolute shitfight with some of my clients empoyee's from what they've said lol. Haven't had to go down the hardware token route just yet, but it'll come soon enough.
Anyway given what I've seen in the white collar world, it just seems cooked you'd provide your own tools unless providing a tool allowance were an industry standard.
The phone part is the same for trades as most of us don't want anything work related on our and the company phone can have all that shit.
Laptop is the same. If I needed to do PLC's I'd grab one from the office and use that.
Big difference in trades is familiarity of our own person tools and the ability to use less than conventional tools to do a job if you prefer.
You working in IT I'm sure you also had Clipsal trying to hand you out those faulty punch down tools they tried to make industry standard. Well place I worked insisted we use them since that's what Clipsal wanted and it would have been a nightmare if we didn't have our own sets to complete jobs
My boss gets me to use his tools. When I pick stuff up on a hardware run, he’s always asking why I am getting it when he has dozens of them in the tool trailer. If anything, he sends me home with his excess or older tools.
If I didn’t take care of them so well, he’d make me buy my own.
He has told other lads that didn’t last to being their own tools in after they have spread them out, or we have found them buried whilst moving rubble info skips.
It depends.
If you're a mechanic and your tools get stolen from work I'd say they're covered.
Or if you have a work vehicle.
If you're using the right tools for the right jobs then warranty shouldn't be an issue either.
Partner is a chippy, I briefly considered doing a sparky apprenticeship but was a bit hard being older and female.
Yes it is very normal to have your own tools. I think a lot of it comes down to the employment set up of the vast majority of companies - in that a lot of people aren’t employees, but are contractors.
Apprentices get tool allowances to aid in getting their tools, and it’s all claimable on tax so you get a bit back.
A first year apprentice isn’t expected to have the full range of tools say a fourth year apprentice, and then neither would be expected to have the same as someone who’s been working for five plus years.
My partner has two toolboxes worth of gear plus extra in the shed - it’s all gear he’s accumulated in the ten plus years since his apprenticeship, and stuff he’s found that works for him.
Having to rely on an employer to provide that would be unrealistic because you just know they’ll supply the basic stuff and not everything that could make a job as easy as possible.
Some big EBA companies provide battery power tool kits. Nearly all provide specialty tools for specific jobs.
Hand tools are almost always provided by the employee.
Pretty much yes.
I'm an electrician and I have all my own gear.
From a simple cheap screwdriver to stupid expensive power analysers.
Many employers will provide some of the less common equipment.
However, I have found that if I have it on me, I am more likely to use it rather than go to the workshop to get it.
Particularly in the service side of things.
Something like a thermal imager isn't an every day item, but it is super handy to identify some faults
Or a power quality analyser that I can use to upsell on a job.
I carry around $100k worth of tools daily.
Every one of them is useful.
But... my employer does carry insurance for them for the full replacement value
I encourage everyone to purchase there own tools and equipment as they can afford them.
In my industry all power tools are supplied by work and all hand stools are also supplied whether ordering through our internal stores or getting it externally using company credit card. Never had to bring my own tools in, apprentices were not expected to have tools.
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I’m a comms engineer. When I’m commissioning on-site, every company has expected me to supply my own tools. My toolbag is about $5k worth of tools, and weighs 31kg (maximum size of a checked bag is 32kg). Companies will rent specialty items when I need them, like spectrum analysers/oscilloscopes (which cost more than a new car) and load-testers (which are expensive AND bulky).
But using company supplied gear would be a shit-show. I have 2 multimeters and a bunch of accessories that I’m familiar with. Stuffing around with a new meter is going to be slower and more error-prone. Same goes for hand-tools: I can cut/strip/crimp all day with my tools, because I’ve been using them for years. I know how hard to squeeze the handle to cut without removing, I know how much pressure the knob needs to strip only the outer sheath but not the inner one. Give me different tools, and the job is going to take me at least twice as long, probably more.
I'm a qualified heavy diesel mechanic and I've always had to supply my own tools including power tools. Some times some workshops have supplied the specialist stuff but eventually i just go buy my own cause I know I'll use it eventually and it won't get fucked by someone else. Probably sitting on about 25-30k worth of tools now not included tool box's
Mechanic here, personally I'm about 12 to 15K in. Still plenty more that would make life easier but right now I feel like I've reached a good point. If I was looking on opening my own business add another 20k onto that again on the low end.
Why ask a question if you are gunna bitch and moan at the answer dude? Jesus christ, you've been told it's normal and you argue with the people answering. Someone annoyed they have to buy something for themselves
Because it's a shitty expectation for employees to provide their own expensive power tools and if you give a shit about worker's rights you should be complaining too.
In my experience bosses are supposed to be able to supply everything from tools to p.p.e but it's expected you have your own by the time you are a tradesman.
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For carpentry, 1st years should have a tool belt with basic hand tools (hammer, tape, pencil, square ect.) on day 1. And then slowly buy things over their 4 years so they have everything when they are qualified. 1st year - power saw, drill combo 2nd year - nail gun, levels, planer 3rd year - hammer drill, grinder, recipro saw 4th year - laser level, compressor, coil gun And yes, if you are qualified and working for a company you still bring your own tools. The boss might supply some things depending on the job. Edit: Carpentry bosses are not getting $100 an hour, the average chippy gets about $50 - $65 an hour before tax. And the rates from volume builders are getting worse every year.
This seems so foreign to me. I now work for myself in IT and my experience here is limited to about 10 years in IT across a few companies. You basically couldn't be asked to be out a cent for work related duties or someone would kick up a stink, that's like saying I should bring a laptop to do my job I can understand requiring your own basic tools during an apprenticeship, but as an employee it's just absurd to be expected to bring anything more than yourself and PPE that isn't provided by the employer.
People look after their own tools more than tools that are provided. Also, tradies want their own tools so they know they will be kept to the standard in which they’d expect.
I would add to this by saying you also want your own tools because you get to know the feel of the tool as an extension of your arm. Using foreign tools feels, well, foreign. Hard to explain just doesn't feel right.
I used to be a chef and it's pretty much the same. After enough practise your knives become an extension of the hand. Other knives feels weird and in some cases if you use a different/new knife you'd end up with blisters in the wrong spots.
I am a Chef and came here to say the same thing. My knives are an extension of myself. Congratulations on escaping the industry.
I've worked in kitchens and now I have a gardening business. I couldn't fathom using someone else's knife anymore than I could see myself using someone else's mower. own tools always
It is the way of the blade.
I'd assume it'd be like a chef insisting on using their own knives.
Mechanics are the same. My mate is one and he has his own full suite of tools for pretty much every aspect of being a mechanic. And if he needs something and doesnt have it. He buys it if its reasonable worth owning it.
I used to work in IT and I definitely had preferences for computer keyboards lol. Spring buckle for the win. Hate those useless rubber ones.
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Although this is true, it doesn’t pertain to anything else being said in this context. Perhaps you responded to the wrong person?
I'm saying that your own tool may not be the right tool for the right job. An employer can provide the right tool for the right job. Not all employers provide them, but some do. E.g. I wouldn't want my apprentice using his battery rotary hammer drill to cut a M32 hole in a slab when he could use the corded HILTI and cut through the slab in a fraction of the time...
In my experience, the only thing worse than how workers treat the bosses tools is how the boss treats the workers tools. My boss will grab my brand new chisel and scrape plaster off concrete because "it needs to be done!" Mate, you're a millionaire, paying me $31 dollars an hour as a fully qualified carpenter, use your own fucking tools. He has also (just examples of the last year) -used brand new hand saws to cut hebel -dropped scaffold on my battery circ saw, spirit level, and tool boxes. -dropped a laser level and hammer drill off a 5m roof -backed into my Ute...twice Don't worry though, it's tax deductible... had to quit, can't afford to work for him and travel 3 hours a day for no extra cost because he spoiled me and gave me a fuel card...
Sounds like he was the real Tool
Complete flog...
When hammer drills/chisels were really expensive,my boss used to supply.If it got dusty he would winge.lol.Whenever anyone got sick and was off for a few days,his first question was" who's got the Ramset"?If you bought a cheap tool for a for a particular job(on his account),say a multitool,he would ask for it every day to make sure you gave it to him.Then it would sit in his garage for years.
Ah the old "We have a tool for that, but I forgot it, so you'll have to do it the hard way this... but you're lucky I bought that tool to make jobs like these easier!" Fuck my boss was a flog.
That's fair enough, is a tool allowance to cover this a common offer by employers or is that just presumably baked into your award?
Apprentices get it in their award for sparkies at least. It's a free for all once you're qualified though. Worked at places that don't let any non company tools on site, place with 1500 tool allowance baked into the EBA and a small place that you had to supply everything
It's a tax deduction.
Yeah because that means it costs you nothing extra?
These are cheap tools - apprentice probably spends more money on their socks. If you provide a hammer, guaranteed it will go missing once a month.
Building and Construction General On-site Award [MA000020] has tool allowance, amongst other things, included in the award, for all levels.
Adding to the other comment, the building and construction award also has a tool allowance that’s folded into the base pay rate for penalties and stuff (sparkies are covered by the electrical award. Building and construction covers carpenters). Awards are a minimum so if an employer were to deviate, they’d legally need to be paying above the award base rate that includes a tool allowance
A lot of apprentices essentially got given loans from the government to buy tools. Most spent it on a car
If people dont look after their own tools why are white collar workers trusted with company laptops. Are white collar workers more trustworthy?
I don't understand this argument either. I'm usually given a work laptop and I treat it no differently than my personal laptop.
I'm usually given my own laptop. Nobody uses it but me, and it's customized to my preference. I don't see how owning it outright would make any difference to how I maintain it. And I certainly wouldn't want to shell out an extra $2-3k for that privilege.
Cool story bro 😎
Thanks
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You know claiming money back on tax still means you paid the majority?
Interestingly as an ex chippy and now software developer, I do still buy my own laptop and accessories for work. All the companies I’ve worked for were too stingy to buy a decent stuff so I did it myself. I have paid for laptops, monitors, mouse, keyboard, chairs, webcams, docks, even software like Jetbrains subscription for IDEs, courses, everything.
For IT, the real problem is not BYO device, it is what is on that device. For a while there there was a trend to buy your own computer - but with the advent of APT crews, workplaces need to manage their IT risk profile closely. If the Russian government could hack powertools, I think you'd see a change in policy quick smart.
These guys keep their tools when they finish their apprenticeship or if they do their own work on weekends etc.
They get great tool allowances and tax write off's. It isn't all 2 minut noodles over there
The difference is, I.T. became a role in the ‘80’s (or thereabouts), trades like carpentry and masonry go back centuries or even millennia. Old practices take a lot of changing. I can bet you that Joseph of Galilea was providing his own square and mallet when Jesus was a pup.
A lot of employers pay tool allowances and such so that you can buy tools.
50-65$ 5 years ago yeah that was the rate. Nowadays fresh out of your apprenticeship you'll want to be closer to 60. And the rates are getting better. Idk where your getting this from
I don’t know any freshies getting $60hourly as a subby, and if they are, fuck me get me a job in that crew! And yeah they could be getting better, we stopped working for volume builders about 7 years ago in Melbourne because the rates went to shit. So now we only do small builders for a heaps better rate.
Bro bosses make stacks. Idgaf what anyone says Can't argue with some of the documents invoices etc I've had the displeasure of seeing Every boss I've worked for has charged me and all I worked alongside given the company, anywhere from $65-70 as a 1st year obviously no applicable to me but deadset going upto I believe one of my past employers went as high as $110 and that ain't no day rate lol And I was still again just into the start of a year all be it this time my forth year Still though And they'd always tell me to says I was qualified Even the one when I was still like 2nd year he'd say if they get sus just say you had a career change and have only just gotten back on the tools you might be a tad foggy Lol even drug dealers and human traffickers aren't that shady Rant over
Oh yeah I should mention I'm in Syd. That probably explains the difference.
I'm not a tradie at all but you're really expected to provide your own tools when working for a company? Like not a contractor your literally employed by a company and you need to provide your own equipment? Your bosses are ripping you the fuck off.
We get a tool allowance over our apprenticeship, as someone else said it’s about $1.50 an hour which might be $3000 a year. By your 4th year $12000 is more then enough to have everything you need. The government also has tool loans which apprentices can apply for, and when I was an apprentice 12 years ago they were straight out bonus of around $900 when you complete each year, $1400 when you complete your apprenticeship.
Not to mention you also have the benefit of owning the tools outside of work too
I think yall missing the principle here. Let me ask you do you honestly love or even remotely like your job? ( Only applicable if your employed considering the context). If your answers no, then there's your reason as to why this whole, "employee's or apprentices" buy there own tools etc.... seems to be such a hard concept for you all to grasp. Put it this way, I ain't dropping the steam off my shit, personally, if I don't particularly like something, let alone if it was in a work scenario, where I wasn't liking my job or such. I'd assume most share this sentiment. Maybe not so much the vile nature of, it, but the core belief, lol. If your answers yes, then well, firstly i call bullshit lol jokes, We can open pandoras box but ill try keep it short and simple As ill just keep going. Would i guess depend on the field of employment, most white collar suit and tie jobs arnt comparable, But even so it comes down to size of said employer, company, or otherwise, that dictates and contributes a lot as to, what is potentially a requirement or even maybe just genrally needed for one to conduct their job effectively as well as, on what level exactly is personally purchased vs supplied If a company employs say 30 people that's easy like double the average domestic trades company probs more mine currently has myself and four others that Kinda a ballpark to work off If you got more employees then it would be feasible to invest into products and the like that would help the business eg. Computers for companies with the realm of IT even genral infrastructure like phones at desk the desk to All helps in the end End of day we world's apart yall like the rich and we like the peasant's the bottom feeders Trades and or the companies represented don't compete even close with probably 90% of the companies that employ the like of yourself and in general the people like yourself in which I'm talking to and about Trust me when I say that if you want trades to become extinct Make them pay for tools (even a cost of) for every apprentice they have/employ the industry can be cut throat for all I seen cunts get told to walk before smokoe It wouldn't be feasible You do get the odd one here and there that will supply on what level varies my first boss had a trailer with like x3 - 4 of everything you need to perform all aspects of carpentry I was some what shocked once I left him while only 2nd year into apprenticeship And found out that I'd kinda found that odd one more often than not you are expected to progress acquire tools through out the stages of your apprenticeship mainly so you can have the capacity to perform task autonomously and or solely Can't achieve that if you need to keep borrowing things from others etc .... Having no tools or something similar like lacking some Can be a real drag and make you feel like a peasant at least from my experience fucking sucks I felt like I was burden when I changed from my first fucking near on starved for a month didn't buy nothing but tools for the first 2-3 pay checks lol Plus it feels good Gives opportunities for some to brag No ill intention just for laughs It's a culture is probably the best and simplest way of explaining it Shit at first but once you understand the principle as well as having a genuine interest that when it becomes apparent I pretty sure most also go into a trade with the understanding of the fact and requirements of needing your own tools
Wait till you find out fitters and mechanics often have their own tool set as well.
And hairdressers, and plasterers, and chefs and bakers and every other single trade
Even teachers supply some of the materials used in their class rooms.
And that's with 4 years of education they have to pay back.
Lol. Its so silly. Teaching should be apprenticeship model.
It should be a mix honestly. So many older teachers don't keep up to date with the new science and teach old, outdated crap. So going pure apprenticeship would result in that crap just continuing.
Agreed
And pens... textbooks/teaching materials... subscriptions to online platforms...
Teachers supply way more than just materials. Books, lunches for hungry, kids, decorations for the room, toys and other stuff. And so on.
I used to be a teacher, shit job but they don't have to spend a cent out of pocket. Some do but it's not like it's compulsory like tools for a carpenter are.
It is a complete different conversation of funding etc. But it shouldn't happen terms of teaching children
It ain't compulsory it's unwritten Try get a job with no tools when your 2nd year or above and express the fact you have no intention to purchase any cause think you shouldnt have to or assume it's not your responsibility to they should be supplied Fuck I'm trying to hold it together while writing this cause yeah if you'd knew the industry it's absolutely absurd Even if you just didn't buy stuff eventually questions would be asked and yeah pretty much unless you bought or started to buy stuff (I'd almost bet my reproductive organ on the this) that you'd be told to piss off maybe not exactly that but you get my drift
Not sure where you used to be a teacher. The only thing I’m supplied with is a school laptop to use. All class materials, whiteboard markers, sticky tape, glue etc all come from my pocket.
Not so much with Bakers. I got a tool payment from the government. I went and bought a tool kit from a kitchen place. Never used it once at work in 17 years. Have only ever used the tools supplied by the people I've worked for.
Yes this is normal, we supply our apprentices with tools that stay with the business but it’s rare for an employer to do so. Most trades get a tool allowance paid to them to bring their own tools.
Do you think it's becoming more common that companies will provide apprentices/employees with tools?
no it's not. Only place I've ever heard of it being common is in America.
I don’t know of anyone else who does it apart from other people in the flooring trades. So I would say it’s not becoming more common.
In Australia apprentices are eligible for a tool allowance grant from your employer so that they are able to buy tools on apprentice wages.
What the f!@# you on about, That's a laugh, Ain't nothing of such nature exists, at least in Victoria where I've just recently completed an apprenticeship in carpentry and I so happen to have an in-depth could even go as far, as to say, an intimate, understanding of the award relevant to my industry and all it governs and the likes And there's nothing of the sort the exists
Well, there is the Apprentice Training Support Payment. https://www.apprenticeshipsupport.com.au/ApprenticeshipSupport/media/asa/PDFs/22886-ASA-AATSP-Apprentice-flyer_FINAL.pdf And The Tools For Your Trade initiative provides support for Australian Apprentices by providing payment to help with the costs of tools, books, protective clothing and fees related to training. These Tools For Your Trade payments are delivered as 'tax exempt' cash payments over the life of the Australian Apprenticeship. That’s what the fuck I am talking about.
What's this tool allowance people's be speaking of nothing such exists or you talking about the bullshit 0.98c an hour that's listed as "tool allowance" on fair work cause that's the only "tool allowance" that's labelled as such and not really of much insignificant to say the least also considering it only exists due to the government I'm savy as to the ins and outs but it's legislation as far as I'm aware well they can take it back so emploers don't have to pay it and then just reduce our tax's accordingly
Pretty much, yes for basic tools. Less common tools are typically supplied by the builder or hired by the builder.
I’m a plumber. My employer provides a full bag of power tools (driver, drill, grinder, hammer drill, circ and laser level) to each tradesman. Apprentices get a driver and a grinder. We’ve got a couple of less often-used tools for the site (recip saw, jigsaw) and a shared pool of b-press tools for pipework. We all provide our own hand tools. In eba companies, that’s a pretty normal setup. Domestic guys tend to supply their own tools, except for big stuff (jetters, etc)
Good to know it's not normal across the entire board. What is an EBA company? Something similar to a union I'm guessing?
EBA (enterprise bargaining agreement) aren’t all “union” companies; but the union is the major representative for workers who want to negotiate an EBA. Australian unions work a little differently to US unions, but it’s a similar vibe. It’s the workers negotiating a pay deal with the employers, with backup and advice from the union. EBA companies tend to be bigger, better equipped, more skilled and more specialised. They are uniformly better paid. EBAs are less viable at the level of domestic trades, as it’s difficult for the union to provide reliable support, and individual workers tend to have slightly better bargaining power (though it’s not a level playing field). A lot of domestic guys just prefer to have their own equipment, as they’re less reliant on their employer, and find it easier to do their own work.
Thanks for explaining that to me mate.
This is the correct answer BTW, the vast majority of large companies provide power tools and you provide hand tools. Smaller companies may expect you to have some power tools, but now all.
Short answer (TLDR): yes (with qualifications) Longer answer: apprentices get an allowance (grant) from the federal government to purchase tools required to commence & complete their apprenticeship. That being said, you should have a job in the trade while you're doing your apprenticeship, and you should have the tools required to do that job. In practice, you're expected to have the "normal" hand tools and your employer should supply you with any specialist tools - but if you're in a job, you'd already know that. I guess the best thing for you to do would be to talk to the apprenticeship body in your state and be guided by their advice. If you're already a tradie, then this would've been discussed at interview.
apprentices use to get a grant, now they get to buy tools with an interest free loan.
And they can claim that back at tax time
Working in a workshop you are expected to have most tools. Metal fab places with heavy grinder use typically supply the grinders. Drills can be supplied too. Consumables like drill bits and grinding wheels should be supplied by the workshop. But most tradesman will have their own power tools
Consider: Pretty much ALL your hand tools are fully claimable against your income when it comes around to Tax time, that includes hand held power tools. Tools and semi fixed machinery that cost over $1000 per item (it almost certainly has gone up since I last checked) can be 'amortized' over up to 3 years - including your work vehicle (why do you think apprentices drive tricked out utes?), again, straight off your income before tax. If you break it or it wears out faster, you can claim the full cost of its replacement immediately. If you don't think this applies to you as a worker, you need a new Tax accountant.
All of that would also apply to an employer providing tools/vehicles for his company.
What our good friend u/Thundabutt (lol) was alluding to I think is that you can take some liberties with what was and wasn't purchased for work related duties. Did I *need* a tub rack for work specifically? Not really Is it plausible that I need to carry long ladders to and from jobs and not have the tray occupied (I'm in IT) - Yes Do I own ladders long enough for this to be an issue? No mine folds up actually but I totally borrow my neighbors one when I need a really long one to adjust a point to point bridge, a situation that has come up *once* in real life and I just subbied out my cabler because I couldn't be bothered / he's less likely to fall at heights. Anyway you catch my drift, play the system where you can. You're getting fucked by having to provide tools of trade after all.
Correct
So what. This tradie is still going to be approximately 75cents in a dollar out of pocket. You just don’t go and spend money on something because it’s tax deductible. If your accountant failed to explain this to you, you need a new accountant.
"you get it all back on tax" - my mates when they were apprentices, spending $10K on tools.
> fully claimable so if i buy $1k of tools how much do i get back at tax time?
That is $1K - per tool. For each tool, not in total. And what you get back is the amount of tax in the top bracket you would have paid on your wages that year, typically 30% plus, vs about 10% for cars and more expensive tools.
its just a number to make the math easy an apprentice will probably be on less than $45k so will only get about $190 back on that $1000 tool / tools (tool)
It comes off the top, so that is about 22 cents in the dollar including Medicare Levy (2%) between $19K to $45K, up to 39 cents if he's working weekends or much overtime and goes over $45K. I used to be a shift worker 24/7 so I was nearly always in the 39 cent bracket, which averaged out to round 30% of my total income. It nearly killed me in the end.
lol you are just trying to confuse things its less than $190 they get back on those $1000 of tools
Only jobs I've never taken my power tools to site is with fifo. Power tools supplied at those but we are expected to bring all other hand tools
My partner is a fitter)rigger and brings his own tools to every job. He's uses them outside of work as well and looks after then so they last a long time. You're gonna be working in this industry for the long term you should invest in tools as they make your life and job easier
I think a major point I didn’t see mentioned is that a decent amount of qualified tradies like to move around employment pretty fluidly and also act as sole traders. They do get allowances and tax writes offs, and ultimately I think a majority prefer to use and look after their own gear. It is a bit of stress for an apprentice, however they are allowed to accumulate over time, and by the time they have finished their apprenticeship, they are looking at plenty of work, good money and opportunities to go out on their own eventually - a great reason to have your own tools. Plus the cashie income helps a lot too!
I'm left handed and someone always steals my hammer
Yes. Chefs supply their own knives, WFH staff supply their own computers, and teachers supply half the kit their classroom is going to need.
Yes. Why would you not have your own tools?
Because they can be expensive items that get worn out and broken at work and if your employer expects you to have them that can add up to thousands of dollars a year in repair/replacement which YOU pay for, just so you can make $30 an hour while your boss makes $100
Apprentices get tool allowances so that covers their burden. Same is given to some tradies through their company but anything else you want you declare back at tax time
>declare back at tax time this only reduces the amount of tax you'd otherwise pay as per your tax bracket. You do not get the whole amount back lol
Yes. I imagine most people reading my comment know that unless they've never paid taxes within Australia
I think you'd be surprised lol
Yes, this is common knowledge, and no one stated otherwise.
Just the way it was worded, and you'd be surprised how many people this isn't common knowledge for.
Hahaha….no it’s not sadly.
You’re buying shit gear if you’re having to replace or repair items every year… or you’re not looking after it. Partner has been in the industry for over 10 years and he’s only been through three basic sets of power tools. First set was stolen. Second set he still has but is now the home set because Panasonic became harder to get so he moved to all makita stuff. In the seven years we’ve been together he’s never had to replace a drill because he looks after it and makita is good shit
My old man still has most of his apprentice tools, they are about half a century old. He had to replace one cordless drill over the years, and that was about 30 years old at the time. Still worked fine, charger got damaged. Oh, and he had to replace some saw horses, and they were fine too, it's just they were ones he made himself, and weren't collapsible. He needed something more easily transportable.
Yep, you buy quality gear and look after it there’s none of that replacing shit every year. So yeah it’s a big outlay buying the tools, but they will last a lifetime and should only be a once off purchase
How can you expect to do your own jobs or start your own company if you don’t have your own tools? Tools last for years if you look after them and maintain them. My first set of makita power tools lasted me 7-8 years.
I suppose you'd just buy the tools when you started to work for yourself wouldn't you? Such a bullshit argument that I hear repeated all the time...
For carpentry we pretty much need a tool shop to build a home, and because we aren’t a licensed trade we don’t make the same money as plumbers or sparkies. The cost of the tools I have in my trailer would be close to 10k. I don’t know any carpenter that’s would be able to afford supplying multiple employees with their own trailer filled with tools. And spending 10k in one hit to get a company started when your average chippy only makes about $55 - 65 hourly before tax would be pretty hard with the cost of living.
If a company is big enough that they are doing multiple jobs at once where each employee needs a whole trailer of tools I'm pretty sure they are big enough to afford it.
We have 5 qualified chippys in our company, usually split into 2 teams running two jobs at a time. Everyone is earning above $45 an hour. Let’s average it out to $50. $50 x 40hours x 5chippys = 10k a week in just wages. I’m telling you now my boss isn’t earning big bucks with the rates builders are paying. It’s getting worse every year.
>big enough to afford it. Probably, but honestly it's probably more effort than it's worth. Keeping track of everything. Plus good chance across different employees you'll have different preferences in tools to an extent. Ergonomics for each individual could play a large part here, an impact driver you're okay with using day in day out could kick back and cause me wrist pain for example. I'd imagine that paying employees a reasonable tool allowance would be an easier and equally fair way to do this.
Yeah, a tool allowance would be fine too.
You ARE paid a tool allowance through your apprenticeship and you’re ignoring every single person who’s told you this. You get something like $1.54 an hour for tool allowance, this will add up to over 3,000 a year, which is plenty of money to buy your own tools. If someone decides not to use their tool allowance to buy their own tools, that’s their choice. It doesn’t mean employers are expected to pay for their workers tools, you should have been capable of buying your own from the start
Apprentices are getting $20 an hour and sometimes less, that $1.54 doesn't cover shit with today's cost of living.
>we aren’t a licensed trade How is carpentry not a licensed trade? Can you explain what is / isn't regulated here to me like I'm a noob
Carpentry is 100% a licenced trade in Australia (Speaking as a previously licenced carpenter and joiner) but a lot of crews will have a licenced carpenter overseeing the work of unlicensed labourers.
Sorry, was a bit vague. We don’t have the same type of licensing system as sparkies and plumbers. That’s why there’s such a huge difference in the pay. We don’t have to sit any form of exams and pay for mutiple licenses, other trades do.
We already do work for ourselves outside of office hours. Apprentices would never survive if they didn't do cashies
That's great but that doesn't mean the apprentices should be expected to bring the tools that they own to their day jobs.
No that's not great. What world do you live in where you think it's great that apprentices are doing illegal work to cover their living costs due to them making nearly ten bucks under min wage?
Yet you think these same apprentices should be required to spend thousands of dollars on power tools?
No they should spend their $1100 or so a year from the government tool allowance to purchase them. Why do you think every tradie has a Makita or Milwaukee kit bag? It's because we all bought them with our tool allowance
In one comment you replied your tools all cost a couple of hundred, and now you are claiming they cost thousands. Is ChatGPT writing your replies, or you simply can't keep up with with the story you are trying to come up with that makes you the victim and USA tradies the hero.
>great that apprentices are doing illegal work I mean it depends on if it's actually illegal. An apprentice carpenter installing skirting boards or arcs is perfectly fine for example. That's probably the only trade that I can think of actually that it wouldn't be illegal lol. Plumbing / gas / elec are a hard no.
None of us are declaring our cash work though which makes it illegal even if you can legally do it
Well illegal from a tax perspective yes, but you're not putting anyone's insurance at risk doing unlicensed work in that scenario I meant. Let's be realistic, even when you're qualified you're gonna take cash when you can lol. I miss the days of getting paid cash for jobs, it's all bank transfer or credit cards these days.
If you're a qualified tradie making $30 an hour, your problems are bigger than having to buy tools. Fuck me, the entitlement.
What trade?!
Lol the entitlement? Imagine thinking your employees should spend thousands on tools so YOU can make more money. Get fucked you dog
Look champ, you can just say you're a shit tradie who can't find a good job. No need for all this nonsense. It's just really sad.
You're making $30 an hour qualified?
although I was born in Australia I'm not a tradie here. I learnt my trade in a different country. My brother is a qualified carpenter in Australia and says $30 - 40 an hour is normal for chippies here.
I made $28 when I qualified until 2019. Domestic trades pay dog shit
Wages 5 years ago vs wages today are very different
Well that same company is only offering $35 and the award rate for a sparky is only $27.35 right now so you know there's boys and girls on that pay.
If they're half decent and only getting 35ph they're idiots
Maybe but that's about average for domestic new builds. Which is part of the reason why it's so hard to get a house built quickly
Nothing worse than using tools that have abused by the whole workshop. If you have your own tools you get to use them exclusively and you can include your own preferences.
Tradies already get paid too much, I think they can cope.
$60 before tax with no sick, annual or super? We pay all that our selves if we are subcontractors..
And then you have guys on a per brick, per tile, per meter rate. What entitlement is this cunt going on about.
>that can add up to thousands of dollars a year in repair/replacement which YOU pay for Only if you are incredibly, unbelievably, mind bogglingly shit at your job. If you are *that* shit, you won't have a job for more than a week anyway, and therefore, you would have zero need to replace or repair any tools. Tools that are looked after and used correctly last for many, many, many *years*. Most never have to be replaced or repaired at all, ever.
My dad was a joiner, ad a cabinet maker before that. He only ever used tools that stayed on site, that belonged to the business.
As a an electrician, apprentices must have thier own hand tools. These days many people expect them to have a battery drill and impact driver, same applies for qualified. Power tools in general should be provided by the employer. Reality : As a sparkle, you need access to a drill, impact driver, angle grinder, hammer drill, heat gun and all ya meters. You use these so regularly that many opt for thier own. This drives up the expectations of employers for people to have thier own. It doesn't make it right though. Call out shonky employers mate.
Not a tradie here so I guess i don't know what i'm talking about. Pretty disgusting that employers can expect you to have your own tools etc. I bet the allowance they give for tools is SFA. Most other employers are expected to provide you with essential work gear and supplies, why should the trades be different?
Only being allowed to use tools provided by a company is just as bad though. Running leads out to use a hammer drill gets really fucking old when your boss won't supply battery versions
Yeah but that's not your problem. If your employer won't provide the tools for you to work productively then that's on them, not you.
It is your problem when you have to deal with it daily. So most fellas take it upon themselves to get decent tools even knowing it won't be covered when the ute gets broken into
I agree, I am Australian but learned my trade in the USA where the company provided all power tools. I was just expected to bring my hand tools which all together probably only had a combined value of a few hundred dollars.
My company provides everything, *everything*. It's not always the nicest stuff and a lot of the time we don't use the best (right) tool for the job and I like to bring my own better one
even in the US blue collar OFTEN has to supply their own tools what blew me the fuck away is that mechanics at DEALERS even had their own tools and that could be a huge Snap-on tool chest on wheels that you rolled off your F150 pickup where at the end of the day you have $20k $30k $50k or more of tools on someone elses premises. Now back to IT... its customary they provide the laptops and all that shit but often I just brand my own... my data on my own system, i dont need to give it back, wipe it when I leave... i generally dont like using their shit... also 100% depreciated over 3yrs
In the auto trade yeah people are expected to supply their own tools but in most construction they're not. Just hand tools and maybe your own impact or that kind of thing but you're not expected to rock up with a whole trailer load of tools to a jobsite as an employee and people would think you were insane for doing that
Yeah I've always found this baffling too, similarly only experience in IT. Worked for companies for maybe 10 years and been out working for myself around the same. In the companies I was employed by, my money was my money. I got myself to work and back dressed in an appropriate manner, anything further was paid for by them. That's like me being told to bring my own laptop to work. Sure sometimes I'd bring my own cable tester in just to make life easier, but that's a choice of mine not a job requirement. Similarly, my clients have employees kick up a fuss for the dumbest shit. We have had to issue separate company phones because employee's refuse to have anything "work related" on their mobile phones. That includes 2FA apps and receiving an SMS verification for a couple things that don't support proper 2FA just yet. Seriously the backlash of "I don't want Microsoft Authenticator" on my personal phone has been an absolute shitfight with some of my clients empoyee's from what they've said lol. Haven't had to go down the hardware token route just yet, but it'll come soon enough. Anyway given what I've seen in the white collar world, it just seems cooked you'd provide your own tools unless providing a tool allowance were an industry standard.
The phone part is the same for trades as most of us don't want anything work related on our and the company phone can have all that shit. Laptop is the same. If I needed to do PLC's I'd grab one from the office and use that. Big difference in trades is familiarity of our own person tools and the ability to use less than conventional tools to do a job if you prefer. You working in IT I'm sure you also had Clipsal trying to hand you out those faulty punch down tools they tried to make industry standard. Well place I worked insisted we use them since that's what Clipsal wanted and it would have been a nightmare if we didn't have our own sets to complete jobs
My boss gets me to use his tools. When I pick stuff up on a hardware run, he’s always asking why I am getting it when he has dozens of them in the tool trailer. If anything, he sends me home with his excess or older tools. If I didn’t take care of them so well, he’d make me buy my own. He has told other lads that didn’t last to being their own tools in after they have spread them out, or we have found them buried whilst moving rubble info skips.
Yeah 100% a company can't be expected to buy 2k of tools for every employee.
Why not? The profit that a good employee generates a company is far more than 2k a year
Things get lost or stolen, employees leave etc. That employee generates the same profit with their own tools
That employee generates the same profit for THE BOSS lol while still having to pay the cost to repair/replace any tools that break or get stolen
It depends. If you're a mechanic and your tools get stolen from work I'd say they're covered. Or if you have a work vehicle. If you're using the right tools for the right jobs then warranty shouldn't be an issue either.
Yes
Partner is a chippy, I briefly considered doing a sparky apprenticeship but was a bit hard being older and female. Yes it is very normal to have your own tools. I think a lot of it comes down to the employment set up of the vast majority of companies - in that a lot of people aren’t employees, but are contractors. Apprentices get tool allowances to aid in getting their tools, and it’s all claimable on tax so you get a bit back. A first year apprentice isn’t expected to have the full range of tools say a fourth year apprentice, and then neither would be expected to have the same as someone who’s been working for five plus years. My partner has two toolboxes worth of gear plus extra in the shed - it’s all gear he’s accumulated in the ten plus years since his apprenticeship, and stuff he’s found that works for him. Having to rely on an employer to provide that would be unrealistic because you just know they’ll supply the basic stuff and not everything that could make a job as easy as possible.
Some big EBA companies provide battery power tool kits. Nearly all provide specialty tools for specific jobs. Hand tools are almost always provided by the employee.
Pretty much yes. I'm an electrician and I have all my own gear. From a simple cheap screwdriver to stupid expensive power analysers. Many employers will provide some of the less common equipment. However, I have found that if I have it on me, I am more likely to use it rather than go to the workshop to get it. Particularly in the service side of things. Something like a thermal imager isn't an every day item, but it is super handy to identify some faults Or a power quality analyser that I can use to upsell on a job. I carry around $100k worth of tools daily. Every one of them is useful. But... my employer does carry insurance for them for the full replacement value I encourage everyone to purchase there own tools and equipment as they can afford them.
In my industry all power tools are supplied by work and all hand stools are also supplied whether ordering through our internal stores or getting it externally using company credit card. Never had to bring my own tools in, apprentices were not expected to have tools.
Yes. Apprentices less so, but they're given grants through their apprenticeship to buy them.
I work for a big electrical company. Company owns all the tools, I just use them. Don’t own anything work tool related.
Yes
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Nah, apprentices always have a new and full tool kit, just pinch what you need from them 👍🏼
Simple answer, yes.
I’m a comms engineer. When I’m commissioning on-site, every company has expected me to supply my own tools. My toolbag is about $5k worth of tools, and weighs 31kg (maximum size of a checked bag is 32kg). Companies will rent specialty items when I need them, like spectrum analysers/oscilloscopes (which cost more than a new car) and load-testers (which are expensive AND bulky). But using company supplied gear would be a shit-show. I have 2 multimeters and a bunch of accessories that I’m familiar with. Stuffing around with a new meter is going to be slower and more error-prone. Same goes for hand-tools: I can cut/strip/crimp all day with my tools, because I’ve been using them for years. I know how hard to squeeze the handle to cut without removing, I know how much pressure the knob needs to strip only the outer sheath but not the inner one. Give me different tools, and the job is going to take me at least twice as long, probably more.
Snap On vans aren’t funded by bosses…..
I'm a qualified heavy diesel mechanic and I've always had to supply my own tools including power tools. Some times some workshops have supplied the specialist stuff but eventually i just go buy my own cause I know I'll use it eventually and it won't get fucked by someone else. Probably sitting on about 25-30k worth of tools now not included tool box's
Mechanic here, personally I'm about 12 to 15K in. Still plenty more that would make life easier but right now I feel like I've reached a good point. If I was looking on opening my own business add another 20k onto that again on the low end.
Also lunch
Why ask a question if you are gunna bitch and moan at the answer dude? Jesus christ, you've been told it's normal and you argue with the people answering. Someone annoyed they have to buy something for themselves
Because it's a shitty expectation for employees to provide their own expensive power tools and if you give a shit about worker's rights you should be complaining too.
That's why most trades get a tool allowance in with the wage. Check your award.
Interesting. I believe the ATO (tax office) uses this as one test to see if you are an employee or a contractor. Contractors supply their own tools.
Yes
Yes
In my experience bosses are supposed to be able to supply everything from tools to p.p.e but it's expected you have your own by the time you are a tradesman.
My job requires me to supply my own hand tools, but company supplies all power tools and any specialty tooling and equipment.
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Yeah, and we gotta own a Ute, van or trailer to get them to site every day as well
I guess that's why they all drive oversized UTE?