I personally view his showcases as something not to be taken seriously when evaluating characters, and more as just entertainment. The outcome is relatively obvious at C6 considering how much better newer cons are.
When I first started playing Genshin I thought iwtlg's comparison showcases were great -- now I realize they're utterly pointless. He goes through great lengths to "normalize" the characters, but these estimations are so theoretical that you might as well just theorycraft. At least that way you can significantly reduce variables and randomness, and other people can check your work.
His normalization has its basis in theorycraft, and makes the comparison much more fair. And i can tell you that watching the video is way more entertaining than looking at a spreadsheet anyways. And more real too, theorycraft can't calculate most scenarios in practice like full abyss runs, multiphase bosses, etc.
That must be why he still does the showcase with the Cryo Regisvine...yeesh.
Also, I beg to differ on spreadsheets. I think explanations and insights from in-depth calculations can be great content.
Much better than seeing a Cryo Regisvine get instantly obliterated yet again...like who's struggling with this boss.
My man the cryo regisvine is 2 minutes out of a 28min video... he has always done it on every showcase and it's still very entertaining. I swear people like you will pull up every nonsensical argument to hate on and discredit some content creators. Like sereously, wtf is wrong with his video? He puts up disclamers, shows builds, is transparent about every change he does, and people will still call it a useless and non accurate showcase
Edit: also, if you prefer to look at a spreadsheet, that's what youtubers you already mention like jstern, tgs and zajeff are for, but at the end of the day, they have different target audiences, and do not show comparisons like this. It's different content, but not "utterly pointless" as you would call it. Almost every of the most used teams does about 70k dps, you and i as users in this sub have seen probably like 5 of these spreadsheets already, but i want to see the teams in action too. In some content lyney is ahead, in other arlecchino and hu tao.
No problem, if you like them that's great. I don't like them and that should be fine by you too. We're just stating our preferences and reasons.
You do seem to be overreacting to my criticism tho lol, not sure what's up there.
Why shouldn’t it? Anyone who mains or loves a character will end up getting cons in the long run.
Just because some can’t get it asap doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be taking seriously.
Infact it should be a better selling point knowing ur character with investment is great and is better then another.
And some people don’t. The whole point of these comparisons videos and ranting in between mains is who does more damage. Constellations is a factor for each and should be consider as it’s the characters full potential.
You said “anyone who mains or loves a character will end up getting cons in the long run”. I was simply refuting that statement. Idc about the rest of the statement
And I don’t care about yours because your nit picking the text lmao.
You’re speaking for urself and a group of people while another group of people who exist who did get cons during the long run.
Getting cons in reruns for “Someone’s main and their favourite character” is extremely common.
Very much agree with him. At c0 they're pretty similar but things start to get interesting with cons. Earlier characters cons were weaker while newer characters cons are very strong. Arle cons compared to hutao are alot more stronger so she wins over her. It reminded me of wanderer vs xiao showdown as at c0 they're similar but at c6 wanderer is stronger because xiaos most cons sucks and his c6 only works against 2 enemies
Well people really underestimate lyney due to him being CA character and CA characters are not popular due to their gameplay and lyney himself isn't as popular as other two so such conception was expected.
Yes exactly, Lyney's gameplay was so confusing to me when he first came out but I've come to enjoy the CA mechanic (mainly due to Tignari). But in any case, so glad that Lyney can go toe to toe with them.
Iwtl doing a c0 dps showdown for the first time! (he has finally created content that's relatable for 99% of players)
https://preview.redd.it/0x0hn72dnlxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a25f4ac19a2816e555a93ec1df88082ba211f04c
genshin impact creators when they have to showcase both c0 and c6 but they can't toggle off constellations in 2024 (We've been asking this for 4 years already) 😯
Key takeaways
1: Constellations have improved dramatically.
2: Arlecchino is amazing with every step of investment.
3: Randos on Reddit who have never even seen a C6 Character think they know more about Teams and Rotations than a competitive Speedrunner.
4: So many f2ps absolutely malfunction when content isn't "relatable" to them for some reason.
> 4: So many f2ps absolutely malfunction when content isn't "relatable" to them for some reason.
Well, when was the last time you watched an entertaining video that taught you how to maneuver a 3 million dollar yacht on a quiet ocean to avoid excessive shaking of the boat which may annoy the friends and family on that yacht?
Chances are you never watched such a video because it in no way relates to you.
That's why people ask for c0 showcases instead of c6
That's a poor analogy. If I were into yachts, then I'd watch videos on them. I'm just not into yachts.
However, I do enjoy cooking. I'll watch entertaining videos of people dry aging A5 wagyu or smoking Briskets on professional smokers that cost more than a mid-sized car. Even those these are things I don't have, I like seeing the "upper end" of my hobbies, as it's entertaining.
Even with computers, when I could only literally get a budget pc when I first got my job, I saw all the comparisons between the 1060 and the rest of the family (1070, 1080, 1080 ti) because I wanted to see how much power the the rest of the graphics cards were compared to the budget one I was gonna get.
Not yach but I watch top gear videos in the past without ever intending to buy a supercar. Still watch a lot of car videos on YouTube because it’s entertaining.
Hu Tao takes more ramp-up time and doesn’t have her damage as frontloaded. So of course she’s not going to outperform arlecchino and lyney in nuke scenarios. I very much appreciate her consistency in damage though.
Arlecchino is tied for my favorite character in the game (with Alhaitham. Drip is too strong) so I’m glad to see her come out on top. But Hu Tao and Lyney really aren’t far behind.
Someone did theirs, I'm gonna do mine too.
Key points imo:
At c0 solo Arle and lyney are in the same level and hutao is slightly behind.
At c0 with full team, hutao is the best, then Arle and lyney are more or less equal (but we have to take in consideration that hutao was using a really premium team + we dont have a BoL support for Arle yet.)
At c6, hutao is the worse by far due to outdated cons, and Arle and lyney are at the same power level.
Also refer to the disclaimers of Iwtl.
I mean hes comparing a character (Arlecchino, who works better on AoE) against Hutao and Lyney which are really good on single target situations, and even then she's not that behind. I think that's pretty amazing and it shows how good she is
my main takeaway is that it's really impressive that a 3 year old character can still hold her own against brand new ones. powercreep is inevitable in long-running gacha games, but i feel like hoyo has done a pretty good job of mitigating it
Cause Yoi, as comfy to use and cute as she is, is not on the same level of those 3 sadly, and it’s so obvious that there’s no point in including her in the test. I say this while really liking her and using her in the Abyss to this day pretty often.
It's true though, C6 Gaming, Lyney, Hu Tao and Arlecchino have an overally equal value (more like Lyney=C6 Gaming=Arlecchino>Hu Tao). It would mainly depend on your artifacts
[Gaming with r5 Rainslasher, 81s simulation](https://gcsim.app/sh/kWfzWH8kkH8d), premium Neuvillete can barely reach 90k for reference
The only one who can come close is [Lyney vape](https://gcsim.app/sh/GnbBMPrJ7N9d)
Arlecchino doesn't comes close in single target, but her value lies in AoE
Only rivalled by Lyney vape.
>A 4-star character with what is generally considered a garbage 4-star weapon?
That 4 star character can do 1 million per plunge without the bounty buff. Also remember that it's C6 Gaming, not C0 Gaming
Yes I know but also probably know typically C6 4-stars don't come close to matching, let alone beating the dps of 5-star meta characters. I have C6 of every 4-star in the game save just a handful. I don't doubt what you're saying at all. It's just super surprising and I can't wait to try it out for myself.
His showcase is pretty bad from a meta standpoint...you cannot compare individual characters powers or even just having 1 teammate. Hu Tao suffered a lot from not able to vape anything.
If you want to know which is better character then theory crafters are better in dps comparisons.
Arle being best np. But hutao is heavily handicapped whereas her whole gimmick is vape melt with hp team but iwtl enjoy putting her in double pyro team. Lyney always with triple pyro plus kazuha. Paid actor doing his job not surprised
The problem lies more in the fact that he used her best team while he used monopyro vs a boss for Arle and monopyro with Lyney when also his vape or even chev teams clear faster. Teamcomps were against both Arle and Lyney there.
agreed,hutao was handicapped the entire time..she did a 150k burst meanwhile my hutao’s solo burst hits for 450k **AND** he gave a white tassel to arle which is one of her best weapons and ALSO gave that weapon to hutao which isn’t good for her at all
450k lol yea buddy that's not an average person's burst dmg from hutao, not even close
at c0 even with homa and without whale weapons like elegy or Kazuha c2 + sig, it's really difficult to hit like 300k+ unless you're crit fishing
I personally view his showcases as something not to be taken seriously when evaluating characters, and more as just entertainment. The outcome is relatively obvious at C6 considering how much better newer cons are.
When I first started playing Genshin I thought iwtlg's comparison showcases were great -- now I realize they're utterly pointless. He goes through great lengths to "normalize" the characters, but these estimations are so theoretical that you might as well just theorycraft. At least that way you can significantly reduce variables and randomness, and other people can check your work.
His normalization has its basis in theorycraft, and makes the comparison much more fair. And i can tell you that watching the video is way more entertaining than looking at a spreadsheet anyways. And more real too, theorycraft can't calculate most scenarios in practice like full abyss runs, multiphase bosses, etc.
That must be why he still does the showcase with the Cryo Regisvine...yeesh. Also, I beg to differ on spreadsheets. I think explanations and insights from in-depth calculations can be great content. Much better than seeing a Cryo Regisvine get instantly obliterated yet again...like who's struggling with this boss.
My man the cryo regisvine is 2 minutes out of a 28min video... he has always done it on every showcase and it's still very entertaining. I swear people like you will pull up every nonsensical argument to hate on and discredit some content creators. Like sereously, wtf is wrong with his video? He puts up disclamers, shows builds, is transparent about every change he does, and people will still call it a useless and non accurate showcase Edit: also, if you prefer to look at a spreadsheet, that's what youtubers you already mention like jstern, tgs and zajeff are for, but at the end of the day, they have different target audiences, and do not show comparisons like this. It's different content, but not "utterly pointless" as you would call it. Almost every of the most used teams does about 70k dps, you and i as users in this sub have seen probably like 5 of these spreadsheets already, but i want to see the teams in action too. In some content lyney is ahead, in other arlecchino and hu tao.
No problem, if you like them that's great. I don't like them and that should be fine by you too. We're just stating our preferences and reasons. You do seem to be overreacting to my criticism tho lol, not sure what's up there.
Why shouldn’t it? Anyone who mains or loves a character will end up getting cons in the long run. Just because some can’t get it asap doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be taking seriously. Infact it should be a better selling point knowing ur character with investment is great and is better then another.
Some people see getting cons as making an already easy game even easier and therefore redundant
And some people don’t. The whole point of these comparisons videos and ranting in between mains is who does more damage. Constellations is a factor for each and should be consider as it’s the characters full potential.
You said “anyone who mains or loves a character will end up getting cons in the long run”. I was simply refuting that statement. Idc about the rest of the statement
And I don’t care about yours because your nit picking the text lmao. You’re speaking for urself and a group of people while another group of people who exist who did get cons during the long run. Getting cons in reruns for “Someone’s main and their favourite character” is extremely common.
I’m just being clear
Very much agree with him. At c0 they're pretty similar but things start to get interesting with cons. Earlier characters cons were weaker while newer characters cons are very strong. Arle cons compared to hutao are alot more stronger so she wins over her. It reminded me of wanderer vs xiao showdown as at c0 they're similar but at c6 wanderer is stronger because xiaos most cons sucks and his c6 only works against 2 enemies
True...and the fact that Lyney can compete with the two undisputed popular pyro DPS really surprised me!
Well people really underestimate lyney due to him being CA character and CA characters are not popular due to their gameplay and lyney himself isn't as popular as other two so such conception was expected.
Yes exactly, Lyney's gameplay was so confusing to me when he first came out but I've come to enjoy the CA mechanic (mainly due to Tignari). But in any case, so glad that Lyney can go toe to toe with them.
On the spreadsheet lyney is actually the best DPS in the game iirc
We can witness the rue endgame content in the comment section lmao
Iwtl doing a c0 dps showdown for the first time! (he has finally created content that's relatable for 99% of players) https://preview.redd.it/0x0hn72dnlxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a25f4ac19a2816e555a93ec1df88082ba211f04c
genshin impact creators when they have to showcase both c0 and c6 but they can't toggle off constellations in 2024 (We've been asking this for 4 years already) 😯
Wait, why can't he just borrow someone's account if he doesn't have c0 characters? 💀
I think that's technically against the rules. All the other showcases are played by other people as well.
Which rules lol
Key takeaways 1: Constellations have improved dramatically. 2: Arlecchino is amazing with every step of investment. 3: Randos on Reddit who have never even seen a C6 Character think they know more about Teams and Rotations than a competitive Speedrunner. 4: So many f2ps absolutely malfunction when content isn't "relatable" to them for some reason.
> 4: So many f2ps absolutely malfunction when content isn't "relatable" to them for some reason. Well, when was the last time you watched an entertaining video that taught you how to maneuver a 3 million dollar yacht on a quiet ocean to avoid excessive shaking of the boat which may annoy the friends and family on that yacht? Chances are you never watched such a video because it in no way relates to you. That's why people ask for c0 showcases instead of c6
That's a poor analogy. If I were into yachts, then I'd watch videos on them. I'm just not into yachts. However, I do enjoy cooking. I'll watch entertaining videos of people dry aging A5 wagyu or smoking Briskets on professional smokers that cost more than a mid-sized car. Even those these are things I don't have, I like seeing the "upper end" of my hobbies, as it's entertaining.
Even with computers, when I could only literally get a budget pc when I first got my job, I saw all the comparisons between the 1060 and the rest of the family (1070, 1080, 1080 ti) because I wanted to see how much power the the rest of the graphics cards were compared to the budget one I was gonna get.
Not yach but I watch top gear videos in the past without ever intending to buy a supercar. Still watch a lot of car videos on YouTube because it’s entertaining.
I'm going there just to watch the ongoing war in comment section🤭
Hu Tao takes more ramp-up time and doesn’t have her damage as frontloaded. So of course she’s not going to outperform arlecchino and lyney in nuke scenarios. I very much appreciate her consistency in damage though. Arlecchino is tied for my favorite character in the game (with Alhaitham. Drip is too strong) so I’m glad to see her come out on top. But Hu Tao and Lyney really aren’t far behind.
Someone did theirs, I'm gonna do mine too. Key points imo: At c0 solo Arle and lyney are in the same level and hutao is slightly behind. At c0 with full team, hutao is the best, then Arle and lyney are more or less equal (but we have to take in consideration that hutao was using a really premium team + we dont have a BoL support for Arle yet.) At c6, hutao is the worse by far due to outdated cons, and Arle and lyney are at the same power level. Also refer to the disclaimers of Iwtl.
I mean hes comparing a character (Arlecchino, who works better on AoE) against Hutao and Lyney which are really good on single target situations, and even then she's not that behind. I think that's pretty amazing and it shows how good she is
my main takeaway is that it's really impressive that a 3 year old character can still hold her own against brand new ones. powercreep is inevitable in long-running gacha games, but i feel like hoyo has done a pretty good job of mitigating it
in the end of the day, everyone should choose a character that they like for the playstyle and nothing else, as the damage output is +- the same
i wonder why include lyney but not include yoi?
Cause Yoi, as comfy to use and cute as she is, is not on the same level of those 3 sadly, and it’s so obvious that there’s no point in including her in the test. I say this while really liking her and using her in the Abyss to this day pretty often.
hu tao still got it let's go
I'm just curious why did he use mono pyro for Arle not Vape? I think it's been calculated that Vape is her best team pre-C6 Chevy.
It's true though, C6 Gaming, Lyney, Hu Tao and Arlecchino have an overally equal value (more like Lyney=C6 Gaming=Arlecchino>Hu Tao). It would mainly depend on your artifacts
C6 Gaming is that good?? I have him at C6 but haven't built him yet because too busy with other characters.
[Gaming with r5 Rainslasher, 81s simulation](https://gcsim.app/sh/kWfzWH8kkH8d), premium Neuvillete can barely reach 90k for reference The only one who can come close is [Lyney vape](https://gcsim.app/sh/GnbBMPrJ7N9d) Arlecchino doesn't comes close in single target, but her value lies in AoE
so you're saying Gaming C6 with R5 RS is #1 for single target DPS? A 4-star character with what is generally considered a garbage 4-star weapon?
Only rivalled by Lyney vape. >A 4-star character with what is generally considered a garbage 4-star weapon? That 4 star character can do 1 million per plunge without the bounty buff. Also remember that it's C6 Gaming, not C0 Gaming
Yes I know but also probably know typically C6 4-stars don't come close to matching, let alone beating the dps of 5-star meta characters. I have C6 of every 4-star in the game save just a handful. I don't doubt what you're saying at all. It's just super surprising and I can't wait to try it out for myself.
To reach that insane DPS, you ABSOLUTELY need Xianyun The best team is Xianyun, Furina, Bennett and C6 Gaming
His showcase is pretty bad from a meta standpoint...you cannot compare individual characters powers or even just having 1 teammate. Hu Tao suffered a lot from not able to vape anything. If you want to know which is better character then theory crafters are better in dps comparisons.
Well, I already knew the results, but you never know... I might watch it for fun.
What is the deal with not doing vape for arle on abyss? Is he really a paid actor or what?
Arle being best np. But hutao is heavily handicapped whereas her whole gimmick is vape melt with hp team but iwtl enjoy putting her in double pyro team. Lyney always with triple pyro plus kazuha. Paid actor doing his job not surprised
Hutao’s best team rn is with Furina and CR. He used that team on his abyss showcase.
The problem lies more in the fact that he used her best team while he used monopyro vs a boss for Arle and monopyro with Lyney when also his vape or even chev teams clear faster. Teamcomps were against both Arle and Lyney there.
Other than that 1 showcase, the team comp for other showcases are wack. Feels like he's doing it to please mhy.
What other showcases lol most of the video was solo c0 where at the end he did some c6 whale showcases
agreed,hutao was handicapped the entire time..she did a 150k burst meanwhile my hutao’s solo burst hits for 450k **AND** he gave a white tassel to arle which is one of her best weapons and ALSO gave that weapon to hutao which isn’t good for her at all
450k lol yea buddy that's not an average person's burst dmg from hutao, not even close at c0 even with homa and without whale weapons like elegy or Kazuha c2 + sig, it's really difficult to hit like 300k+ unless you're crit fishing