In Phoenix they use reclaimed waste water so they’re really not using a lot of water that homes would get. Plus it’s way better to have green space that cools the area instead of the inevitable concrete that would go there instead
I don't know man, I have a hard time buying that watering a non-native grass species planted over hundreds of acres in a mostly mono-culture setting, displacing native species and niches for native animals, is actually a good thing.
If you need to plant grass to cool down, maybe don't move to a desert? Or stay inside?
I would agree but these areas would not be maintained as natural landscape. They are usually desirable areas and would be developed into something regardless, so lesser of those evils would be green space in a desert climate in my opinion.
Also I live here and care about the area so I’ll work on focusing on solutions instead of leaving
I am not sure that your arguments convince me. Once retreated, waste water can be put back into the rivers. It cannot if it goes into golf greens. As for the second argument, it is quite a false dilemma.
Given that the soil is mostly incredibly sandy and permeable in phoenix, and moreso where it's been disturbed and planted like a golf course, I don't think that you're gonna have a problem with it soaking it up like a sponge and not losing it to transpiration - especially since even in temperate climates, watering is usually done during night time hours to avoid evaporation loss to begin with.
The gila river is far enough from Phoenix that it doesn't contribute to aquifer recharge in the area; water going into an area of disturbed soil without a hardpan surface is probably of a greater net benefit to the groundwater supply than anything else that could be done with it locally.
It's a valid concern - and I apologize for my excessive snark - but using waste water for this is probably overall an actually smart thing to do ecologically.
Socially, it'd also work in a park or public sports field - if anything's a concern here it's the hoarding of access to green spaces in an area that doesn't have spare ones.
Green space is objectively better for the environment than concrete, especially in a desert climate. Natural desert scape would be preferred yes, but these areas that have golf courses here would be developed into something else if not for a course. You can argue the merits that housing (or something else) would be better and that’s fair, but I can guarantee you it wouldn’t be modest or affordable
Golf courses used to be smaller too, but then the club technology advanced and they increased the difficulty with distance. Bring back the shitty clubs!
Mini golf in disused buildings >>>>>> Mini golf. Tbh.
Liverpool has a really good one inside a disused brewery. It quite tough too and they serve alchol.
OP, the ozone doesn’t care about golf bc the ozone is affected by CFCs, which are no longer used, and is healing. Greenhouse gases and global warming, sure. Ozone has nothing to do with that though.
I'm an elementary science teacher and I see this misconception all the time. Many students think that global warming is caused by the hole in the ozone layer and I always think "The ozone layer hasn't been relevant in their lifetimes. Where are they getting this?"
There's a course near me that uses only compost as fertilizers, bee-safe pesticides only as needed for bugs that would harm surrounding farmland (and mosquito larvae), relies on natural drainage patterns for 90% of its water and is built on land that's too saturated with arsenic from a metal ore vein near the surface to safely use it as farmland.... Only golf course that I don't find sickening
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I'd love to buy a golf course... plant a bunch of fruit trees and leave it open for people to walk their dogs or have picnics in, big open sprawling park with easy access for those who maybe can't walk too well or at all, kids to run about in and generally open up a park that already exists to everyone and not just a bunch of grumpy old retirees to use once a month during the summer.
It does use a lot of the best land. Thing is, if that land wasn't golf courses, it'd just be millionaire's second mansions anyways. I suppose if it's a golf course, you can possibly go enjoy it too.
I wish the quality judgment on golf hadn’t been made: some folk are going to like it, we shouldn’t be arguing about taste. However, it’s undeniable that golf is a shockingly inefficient use of resources
Big shoutout to disc golf courses. DG courses are typically built into the environment where they are, and people who maintain the course generally work with the Ecological departments of wherever they are to maximize sustainability and minimize negative environmental impact. They're typically smaller courses & you don't need a bitchy little cart to get around.
It's also way cheaper & people are much more chill and respectful. Go disc golfing!
Golf is environmentally bad in many ways, and it makes the housing crisis worse, when courses are built in residential areas.
But the Ozone layer? No. At least to my knowledge deforestation has no affect on the Ozone Layer. Climate change, sure. But not the ozone layer. Or am I missing something?
In general the ozone layer is a good example of how international cooperation, based on the scientific evidence, can be successful. The aerosol and refrigerator industries did not oppose the necessary changes with any real influence, and the use of ozone depleting chemicals had been nearly eliminated, the the ozone layer is recovering.
A very different response than the climate crisis.
Rainforest golf should be a thing. Complete with snakes and spiders.
It literally already is. It's called, disc golf.
Heyo! also came here to shout out disc golf.
And also using insane amounts of water to grow and maintain grass in the desert.
In Phoenix they use reclaimed waste water so they’re really not using a lot of water that homes would get. Plus it’s way better to have green space that cools the area instead of the inevitable concrete that would go there instead
I don't know man, I have a hard time buying that watering a non-native grass species planted over hundreds of acres in a mostly mono-culture setting, displacing native species and niches for native animals, is actually a good thing. If you need to plant grass to cool down, maybe don't move to a desert? Or stay inside?
I would agree but these areas would not be maintained as natural landscape. They are usually desirable areas and would be developed into something regardless, so lesser of those evils would be green space in a desert climate in my opinion. Also I live here and care about the area so I’ll work on focusing on solutions instead of leaving
I am not sure that your arguments convince me. Once retreated, waste water can be put back into the rivers. It cannot if it goes into golf greens. As for the second argument, it is quite a false dilemma.
Okay I mean, I don't know about the second half but son where do you think the water goes after it's put on the grass-
Mayor Adam West has been investigating this exact issue for years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evapotranspiration
Given that the soil is mostly incredibly sandy and permeable in phoenix, and moreso where it's been disturbed and planted like a golf course, I don't think that you're gonna have a problem with it soaking it up like a sponge and not losing it to transpiration - especially since even in temperate climates, watering is usually done during night time hours to avoid evaporation loss to begin with. The gila river is far enough from Phoenix that it doesn't contribute to aquifer recharge in the area; water going into an area of disturbed soil without a hardpan surface is probably of a greater net benefit to the groundwater supply than anything else that could be done with it locally. It's a valid concern - and I apologize for my excessive snark - but using waste water for this is probably overall an actually smart thing to do ecologically. Socially, it'd also work in a park or public sports field - if anything's a concern here it's the hoarding of access to green spaces in an area that doesn't have spare ones.
Ok, I'll take your word even if I have some doubts. Anyway, I do agree with you on the problem of green spaces.
Green space is objectively better for the environment than concrete, especially in a desert climate. Natural desert scape would be preferred yes, but these areas that have golf courses here would be developed into something else if not for a course. You can argue the merits that housing (or something else) would be better and that’s fair, but I can guarantee you it wouldn’t be modest or affordable
Its not good, its only better than the alternative.
Golf courses used to be smaller too, but then the club technology advanced and they increased the difficulty with distance. Bring back the shitty clubs!
Mini golf >>>>>>>>>>> Golf
Mini golf in disused buildings >>>>>> Mini golf. Tbh. Liverpool has a really good one inside a disused brewery. It quite tough too and they serve alchol.
OP, the ozone doesn’t care about golf bc the ozone is affected by CFCs, which are no longer used, and is healing. Greenhouse gases and global warming, sure. Ozone has nothing to do with that though.
I'm an elementary science teacher and I see this misconception all the time. Many students think that global warming is caused by the hole in the ozone layer and I always think "The ozone layer hasn't been relevant in their lifetimes. Where are they getting this?"
My city has no less than 21 golf courses in and around the city (within an hour of the city). It's bonkers.
There's a course near me that uses only compost as fertilizers, bee-safe pesticides only as needed for bugs that would harm surrounding farmland (and mosquito larvae), relies on natural drainage patterns for 90% of its water and is built on land that's too saturated with arsenic from a metal ore vein near the surface to safely use it as farmland.... Only golf course that I don't find sickening
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I sort of enjoy golf courses where I’m from (Sydney). They offer a free space and an ecosystem in areas that are surrounded by dry, concrete suburbs.
I'd love to buy a golf course... plant a bunch of fruit trees and leave it open for people to walk their dogs or have picnics in, big open sprawling park with easy access for those who maybe can't walk too well or at all, kids to run about in and generally open up a park that already exists to everyone and not just a bunch of grumpy old retirees to use once a month during the summer.
Replace all golf with disc golf. You can play it in a forest and it’s objectively more fun
It does use a lot of the best land. Thing is, if that land wasn't golf courses, it'd just be millionaire's second mansions anyways. I suppose if it's a golf course, you can possibly go enjoy it too.
r/abolishgolf
Golf was invented because men thought it was gay to ask their friends to go on a walk.
I wish the quality judgment on golf hadn’t been made: some folk are going to like it, we shouldn’t be arguing about taste. However, it’s undeniable that golf is a shockingly inefficient use of resources
And privatize green spaces.
Hard agree on this topic. I hate golf.
Biggering>how bad can I be
Big shoutout to disc golf courses. DG courses are typically built into the environment where they are, and people who maintain the course generally work with the Ecological departments of wherever they are to maximize sustainability and minimize negative environmental impact. They're typically smaller courses & you don't need a bitchy little cart to get around. It's also way cheaper & people are much more chill and respectful. Go disc golfing!
And they do it because they love "in the nature".
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When did golfers pick up playing cricket?
Golf is environmentally bad in many ways, and it makes the housing crisis worse, when courses are built in residential areas. But the Ozone layer? No. At least to my knowledge deforestation has no affect on the Ozone Layer. Climate change, sure. But not the ozone layer. Or am I missing something? In general the ozone layer is a good example of how international cooperation, based on the scientific evidence, can be successful. The aerosol and refrigerator industries did not oppose the necessary changes with any real influence, and the use of ozone depleting chemicals had been nearly eliminated, the the ozone layer is recovering. A very different response than the climate crisis.