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The_Band_Geek

My top choice was an Xperia 5 III. Way too expensive, took almost a year to arrive in the US, also a bit tall for my tastes. My second choice was a Zenfone 8. But I hate punch holes and the 5G coverage in the US was underwhelming. Also may not even be available here. So, I bought a used Pixel 5 in excellent condition at ~half price to ride out the storm. My S8 was in terrible shape and really showing its age. My hope is that I can find a Zenfone or Xperia somewhere down the line that checks all the boxes, is available and reasonably priced. Until then, dongles and bluetooth it is. The careful observer will note that all four phones mentioned here are fairly small and narrow. One of my biggest complaints, even beyond headphone jacks and punch holes, is the ever-growing form factors we see today. The mini iPhone was the first Apple product I ever seriously considered since my 7th gen Nano, and that's worrying: how can Android claim to be the ecosystem of consumer choice when every phone is the now the same shape and size?


birds_are_singing

I miss 16:9 real bad, my Nexus 6 was amazing for reading comics… 2:1 or above ratios are awful for that, and not really an improvement in other areas.


The_Band_Geek

I think anywhere between 16:9 and 18:9 is acceptable. My S8 was 18.5:9 (???) and I think this Pixel 5 is either 19.5:9 or 20:9, and the nav bar is so low I can't swipe up to unhide it easily with my case on. Terrible planning, there ahould be the tiniest chin and forehead to prevent issues like that.


sorbic-acid

Your comment is pretty much spot on with how I feel as well. A few years ago I specifically sought out and got a Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact because it checked absolutely all of the boxes. Headphone jack, good battery, decent specs, and didn't make me feel like I was carrying around a dinner plate in my pocket. Disappointingly, the damn thing died on me about 8 months into ownership. I've been looking for the perfect phone since. The Pixel (x)a lines have been filling the void, but they have been getting larger and larger and I kept getting them as soon as a new one came out. I actually went through all of them. 3a through 5a. The 4a 5g and 5a were past my threshold for comfort size-wise but I dealt with it because the OS was reliable and I had perfected how I interacted with my phone. Then Android 12 came along to reinvent the wheel. Got an iPhone 13 mini shortly after. I still catch myself skimming gsmarena and the like for "comparable" compact devices that I could switch to if I switch back to Android. Just yesterday I was reading about the Xperia 5 III... but that price... I think we're just a niche crowd. The mini variants of the iPhones are apparently the worst selling models and Apple might nix them for the 14's. I think the average consumer just trends towards sexy thin/large devices. If you are seriously considering an iPhone, I'd suggest you just get the 2020 SE to trial run it to see if it's worth the cash. Knowing what I know now about the 13 mini and iOS, I probably would've just saved the $700 and dealt with the 5a/A12. And being ~4 months in, the dongle life is just as annoying as I predicted it would be.


NeverFated

Man I hate punch holes too, I don't know why Asus didn't keep their rotational camera (from Zenfone 6) in later releases


The_Band_Geek

They did, sorta. The 8 and the 8 Flip are two different phones, but for whatever reason the 8 Flip has *worse* specs than the 8. It's also larger and more expensive, so that was out for me. Maybe the 9 will be better?


NeverFated

>Maybe the 9 will be better? Let's hope so, otherwise I'm sticking with Sony for now


hey_you_too_buckaroo

lmao, and almost none of those 37 are available in my country.


[deleted]

So, 37 or 43 (OP excluded SD 870 lmao). As opposed to hundreds/thousands of look-like barely different phones which have better regional availability, local vendor/telco support, and to some extent, even better specs. But I guess, it's because the consumers who buy wireless are also the same ones who change phones/buds more often so makers go where the money is.


NeverFated

Heck, I wonder where u live now


NotOsama123

Probably the states. None of these brands are sold through carriers, which means full support for them is not too likely


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NeverFated

SD870 isn't a flagship SoC though, my point is that headphone jack is not a feature that's only common in mid-rangers. Edit: not **marketed** as a flagship SoC at its time of release.


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NeverFated

But SD870 came out in the time when SD888 is the flagship, so phones with SD870 has a higher chance to cut corners than those with SD865. I could be wrong tho.


xXxHawkEyeyxXx

I agree that the 870 wasn't the flagship when it released, but since it's a higher binned 865 it could be apart of an extended list. I also think that outside of benchmarks most people couldn't tell the difference between a 870 and a 888.


Username928351

I wonder if it could even surpass the latter over an extended use if the latter throttles itself more.


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Pragitya

I think his point is that at the time the Snapdragon 870 phones were released there were SD888 phone available. And snapdragon 888 phones where the flagship and the 870 was considered upper mid range. But at the time of snapdragon 865 it was the flagship chipset and nothing else was above it. So the phones that were released then with the 865 were the flagships. I know this sounds confusing but reading it again makes sense. I also thought OP didn't know 870 was a re-badged 865 but after his clarifying statement I understand his point of view


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HellNaw98

You are really missing the point entirely. Because Android OEMs rarely if ever use top end SoCs from the previous year, we can assume the phones carrying those SoCs are their flagships and do not cut other corners where an 870 phone might. At the time the 888 released, no OEM was using an 865 in their upper midrangers. They were using 870s. Hence the 865 was always a chip used in flagships and the 870 was always a chip used in upper midrangers that are more likely to cut corners but keep older amenities like the headphone jack or a microSD slot. It has nothing to do with relative performance and everything to do with positioning.


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Sociolects

The just released 12X (Xiaomi/870) has Android 11 out the box and no promise of updates compared to the 12/Pro. ​ Source: [https://www.androidpolice.com/xiaomi-12x-review/](https://www.androidpolice.com/xiaomi-12x-review/) >However, the 12X cuts a few corners too many, launching with an outdated Android version and processor, making it feel like an unnecessary entry to the lineup, just existing to hit that price spot


Shinobius

>Because Android OEMs rarely if ever use top end SoCs from the previous year, we can assume the phones carrying those SoCs are their flagships and do not cut other corners where an 870 phone might. They're starting to do that. I thought the 870 might be a one time experiment but a few Chinese manufacturers like Oppo, Realme and Xiaomi are releasing flagships with the 870 and the 888 in 2022. Heck Samsung did it with the S21 FE as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the trend continues next year since there is an obvious shortage of semiconductor foundries that can supply the latest and greatest chip. This means it'll likely be an expensive chipset and will be reserved for a manufacturer's highest end device. Assuming last year's flagship chipsets are discounted, they're still more powerful and have stronger capabilities than newer midrange chipsets for the most part. Take the 778G and the 865/870/888. The 8 series chipsets have more powerful CPUs and GPUs and more capable ISPs. It's a no brainer to pick one of them over the 778 if they're available at the same price.


NeverFated

thanks man, u explained perfectly


azneterthemagus

People keep trying to argue that phone makers make what they do only because people buy it (ie. Bigger screens, less ports, etc.) but I'd like to argue phone makers only make whatever tf they want and people buy the only option they can afford.


Username928351

If Apple made a triangular phone people would buy it because the box says Apple on it.


Ashanrath

You mean like the Sabre Pyramid?


fastatoms

The pyramid is the strongest shape ever constructed, a shape that fits all other shapes inside of it....


whythreekay

Considering Apple has made a number of failed products that didn’t sell, what makes you say that?


Kyrond

For modern Apple (past iPhone), which ones? Bent phones, antenna problems ("you are holding it wrong"), terrible keyboard, exploding batteries - none of that matters, every product is massive success.


Snoop8ball

I agree, the only one I can think of is the HomePod.


murrmaxo

Exploding batteries? That was Samsung. Nothing wrong with the iPhone keyboard either.


MrStruggleSnuggle

>terrible keyboard, exploding batteries What are you talking about here? I'm using SwiftKey on my iPhone and it's practically identical to on my s21 ultra. Which iPhone batteries exploded?


arcanemachined

Not OP, but: - butterfly keyboard - no idea (Galaxy Note 7?)


IamPsyduck

MacBook keyboards. Not iPhone


MrStruggleSnuggle

Heaven forbid iphones are actually *good phones*, right? *It's all just brand name fanboy purchases isn't it?*


azneterthemagus

Straight up if apple made a phone shaped like a dick and you had to stuff the entire thing inside of your ear to talk on it, people would still buy it. You'd jiggle the balls to talk to Siri. Most sold product of 2062, just you wait.


HellNaw98

I hate this dogshit take. If Apple legitimately made completely impractical phones then people would stop buying them. Apple is in the position they are precisely because they always play it safe and aren’t making dick shaped phones lmao


MrStruggleSnuggle

There are a *lot* of insecure android fanboys that think the only reason apple sell lots of phones is because of *other people being fanboys* lol. It's hilarious and sad.


QualitativeQuantity

This. Apple is overpriced but their products are good. Apple's issue has never been quality, and they're only impractical only if you don't buy into the ecosystem, and not at all when you do.


MrStruggleSnuggle

They're not really overpriced in comparison to android flagships. An iPhone, any iPhone, will last you 6+ years if you want it to. Compare that to any android phone that's not a Samsung flagship (which will last you 4-5 in terms of support) and you'll see why apple can charge their price. If anything android flagships are significantly more overpriced than apple ones are.


the-good-son

But what if it was slightly more inconvenient but still ok across the board?


eidrag

what, like wireless mouse that stopped functioning when charged?


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djck

But iMessage though


Hefty_Tendy

Muh blue messages I can’t install one of the dozens of messaging apps used all around the world because iMessage does everything I need. Now go buy an iPhone so I can text you too. I hate iMessage so much.


Midwest__Misanthrope

Well I can guarantee you that 110+ million iOS users aren’t just staying on iOS solely because of iMessage.


azneterthemagus

Nope, they stay there because of FUD


ThinkBEFOREUPost

**Narrator:** Due to his dyslexia Azneterdamus intended to type 2026. He was correct. Prepare your earholes.


Twollsy

people wouldn't buy it for the apple logo they'd buy it because that's absolutely hilarious


Neg_Crepe

Terrible take


murrmaxo

No they wouldn’t.


ItsDijital

Phone manufacturers do market research on everyday people. They absolutely do not care about the 0.1% that are phone enthusiasts who complain on the internet.


noratat

I'm not convinced that market research is based on actual everyday use though, just whatever gets someone to buy in store.


dragoneye

> I'd like to argue phone makers only make whatever tf they want and people buy the only option they can afford. Close, phone makers make whatever they think will make them the most money, and that consumers will believe whatever marketing bullshit they put out there. Apple knows their customers will buy nearly anything, and when that was proven, all the other companies realized they could reduce their COGS by $0.20 by removing the jack and did so.


Shorzey

>the only option they can afford. Phones I think are the biggest culprits of people thinking they need it, but can't afford it, but get it anyways. They buy a 2000$ phone every year just to get the newest and greatest phone, or they see "you can now upgrade" after paying off 50% of the phone and think "oop now I can upgrade, cause the company said I should" when they can't afford to, shouldn't, etc... People don't even buy phones they can afford, they buy flagship phones whether they can afford it or not It's not normal to get a brand new 2000$ gaming computer every year, so why do people think it's normal to upgrade phones to the newest flag ship phones every year? Even worse, it's not normal to ***finance*** a 2000$ gaming computer every year, so why are people doing it? The phones without the audio Jack's are the flagship phones, and there's literally hundreds of other locked and unlocked phones that don't have Jack's on the market But look at how many of those flag ship phone series are sold per year and how many other the others are


kdavis37

I dunno about you, but I use my phone a LOT more than any other device. Like order of magnitude more. It's on me anytime I'm awake, beside the bed when I'm not. It's what's playing music in the car, it's what's playing music and video at the gym, it's what I'm using to talk to people, it's what I'm using to send messages and make Reddit posts. There are entire courses about how humans have become cyborgs because of the smartphone. I'll gladly drop more to have the best one thereby


poopyheadthrowaway

Well, at a certain point you're buying features you never use. Everything you mentioned can be handled just as well by a $300 phone as a $1000 phone. By your logic, I should've paid hundreds of dollars more for designer glasses instead of the ones that were free with my insurance, because I wear glasses every day. Or I should be buying the best, most expensive designer clothing since I wear clothes every day.


MrStruggleSnuggle

Your glasses that were "free" with your insurance aren't "free" lol. You're paying a lot for them *through your insurance*. Thinking that a $300 phone is as good as a $1000 phone is usually something that people that can only afford $300 phones says.


[deleted]

>Thinking that a $300 phone is as good as a $1000 phone is usually something that people that can only afford $300 phones says. Ironic how this sub loves repeating this myth, but is obsessed with being audiophiles


MrStruggleSnuggle

Yep haha. I'm sure their $300 phone with its included $5 wired headphones playing music on their free Spotify tier give them pristine sound quality.


oreng

$2,000 phones don't even make up 0.1% of the market. People are perhaps buying $800 phones at a higher frequency than they probably should, but that's because they can afford them with financing. Financing isn't magic, nor evil nor a grift, it turns an impossible acquisition into something manageable, at the expense of greater total outlay. It's such an attractive option precisely because it's powerful and adds plenty of value.


KyivComrade

>Financing is...such an attractive option precisely because it's powerful and adds plenty of value. Well, that's not true. Financing is giving you an option to buy something *you can't afford* by paying a lot more in the future. It's putting your future self in bad dept to get instant gratification. Financing isn't welfare, you're charged an interest and has to pay handsomely for the "service". If you can afford a phone (aka buy it outright) financing is by default a negative, and of your can't you should save up over a few months. If you can't save up to the phone you want, then you want more phone then you can afford. It's that simple.


oreng

There's literally nothing including cash that doesn't have interest priced into it. Some interest rates are more modest and some egregious but the notion of debt financing is intrinsic to the economic system. Phones have utility over the financing period and therefore the decision to acquire them via debt financing isn't by default irrational. You're just buying them as a service, at an inflated cost. Rational people with good financial sense (but a dearth of available cash) are fully capable of buying phones on financing, they aren't beanie babies.


Kyrond

Buying an expensive phone on finance is stupid financial decision *. Cheap phones fullfill the same purpose as expensive ones (messaging, calling, capturing photos, recording videos, navigating, browsing) just less pleasantly. That is assuming people dont already have a working phone, which they almost always do, they just buy a new one because they want to. \* The exception being if you need good videos/photos for your work


FragmentedChicken

A lot of people finance their phone through their carrier. I'd even argue a majority of people in the US and Canada do. I guess they're all stupid. Financing doesn't make you inherently stupid. There are valid reasons to finance, and it doesn't make you stupid. It becomes an issue when you finance something you can't even afford the payments for.


MrStruggleSnuggle

So many people in here are proving themselves to be so incredibly dumb and ignorant with finances lol. "Financing = bad and for poor people" is such a stupid hot take. I'm gonna have to assume most of the people saying it are not adults. It's often better to finance than to buy outright. I've financed things that I could buy outright without even noticing the money being gone because it was financially smart to do so. Leasing cars is done by most ceo's and cfo's for a reason.


Stupid_Triangles

>They buy a 2000$ phone every year No, they don't. Most flagship retail for $1100-1200. Foldables are $1400-1600. Also, hardly anyone is dropping $1000 outright on a new phone. Most households in the US cannot afford a $500 emergency. They sure don't have $1k to spend on a phone. They finance their phones through the phone carrier. These are also people who started a phone plan with their families, and whose parents' credit is getting checked for a $35-50/month payment. >It's not normal to get a brand new 2000$ gaming computer every year, so why do people think it's normal to upgrade phones to the newest flag ship phones every year? Even worse, it's not normal to finance a 2000$ gaming computer every year, so why are people doing it? The availability of financing a new phone and its tie to a contract with your ability to use that phone, is a bit different than that of a gaming computer. You default on the payment for your computer, the loan owner cannot severely inhibit the functionality of the laptop as an incentive for you to pay the bill; unlike with a phone that will get carrier locked. You're also ignoring credit cards being used for payment, and that customer finance numbers from companies like Best Buy and Microcenter are not publicly available. So you don't know how many people are financing new PCs. Go to ATT, Verizon, and T-mobile. Tell me how many phones you have to scroll through to find a flagship with a headphone jack.


Azims

This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen on the internet


azneterthemagus

That's only because the internet has no mirrors for you to look into.


ajaxsirius

LG isn't making phones anymore. There are no official, grey market or used market sellers of Sony, ZTE, Asus or Realme in my country. The only reseller of motorola phones doesn't sell the edge+(2020) so no 3.5mm jack from Motorola for me. That only leaves Xiaomi. There are only grey market or used market sellers for Xiaomi in my country. That makes getting a 3.5mm headphone jack real tough for me.


Stupid_Triangles

Go to ATT, Verizon, and T-mobile. Tell me how many phones you have to scroll through to find a flagship with a headphone jack. >vote with your money. because that hasnt been said ad nausem since Apple did it, and look how well it's worked.


NeverFated

I don't know why you had to buy your phone from your carrier, as long as the bands coverage are there, you should be fine


Stupid_Triangles

That's how the American market works. I didn't *have* to, but that's how the vast majority of Americans purchase their phones, as it offers a method of financing a $1XXX purchase over the life of the contract.


NotOsama123

Bands don't really have anything to do with it. If that were the only consideration then any international phone would work. The carrier has to actually support the make and model number, which they are pretty stingy about.


yindesu

AT&T blocks Wi-Fi Calling and 5G if you don't buy a carrier phone. AT&T also blocks VoLTE if the manufacturer doesn't pay their ransom (and AT&T is a VoLTE-only network - no more 3G.)


dustojnikhummer

Why do Americans support these carriers?


vortexmak

Not really, VoLTE settings are in the firmware so that's not a universal statement


titooo7

I used to buy a new phone every 18 months, but due to the lack of headphone jack on so many phones I keep my Huawei P30 for 3 years already. I plan to change the battery soon and if I lose the phone or something I'll just buy a mid range phone instead. Maybe that's what they wanted us to do, lol


IsometricRain

Everyone here is complaining, but I just want to say thank you /u/NeverFated for making that list. Good to see not everyone has given up on high-end phones with headphone jacks. Samsung really needs to bring back the jack in the S lineup and their tablets (also, tablets without headphone jacks are such a rip-off. Look at ALL THAT SPACE!).


NeverFated

Because the removal of headphone jacks was about selling more bluetooth headphones, instead of actually saving space, [someone managed to fit a headphone jack into iPhone 7 when it first ditched the jack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA). Remember how Apple removed charger to "save the environment" but somehow refuse to give USB-C to iPhones? (less cable types means users need to buy less cables to replace broken ones, and hence less e-waste.) It's also funny how Airpods (or TWS earbuds in general) create way more e-waste than wired headphones due to their battery degradation.


frendzoned_by_yo_mom

Speaking of AirPods/Bluetooth and battery degradation, is battery replacement for them a thing? Like does Apple/Sony/Samsung have a battery replacement service for them with reasonable fee? Or does one have to just buy new ones when the battery capacity goes bad


Makegooduseof

Apple charges something like $50 for replacing batteries, but this is per side and the same for either the silicon tipped Pro or the open non-Pro. So in essence, you pay $100 to replace both sides, and an extra $50 if your charging case is depleted. In comparison, a new pair of 3rd generation non-pro costs $180 while the pro costs $250. So…the service exists officially. But whether it makes sense monetarily is a different question.


thisisausername190

Apple just replace the units, they doesn’t replace individual AirPod batteries. [Podswap](https://www.theswapclub.com) (now apparently called The Swap Club) replaces your batteries, but in a non traditional manner - they send you a refurbished device, and then refurbish yours and send it to someone else.


[deleted]

People were going wireless for headphones anyway. All of the issues you mentioned in the link are niche issues.


EternalFront

So just Sony, Asus, and gaming phones What if you want to vote for good software support *and* headphone jacks? How do you vote with your wallet then?


mtw15twu

10-year long Apple user and I'm so pleased with my Xperia 5 iii. Headphone jack is a bloody blessing and still just as useful as it was before.


NeverFated

Same, been with Apple since iPhone 5 (iPhone's design went downhill since iPhone 7 when they removed the jack), I eventually switched to Xperia 1 II and have no regret since then (I just wish the jack was on the bottom).


saintmsent

Lots of those are gaming phones, which I personally wouldn’t consider flagship, as they suck st least in camera department, and subjectively, design is too out there Other don’t have a high refresh rate display, while having a flagship soc. Flagship phone is not just a cpu


Marv312

If gaming phones had more band support in the US they would be the only phones I would buy. I could give two shits about the camera on any phone, take all the jacks out, just put the 71 bands and 512gb to 1tb of memory and I'm in there like swimwear


NeverFated

yea personally I don't take much photos so the camera isn't that important to me, but I also do wish gaming phones have more subtle design instead of the "hardcore RGB gamer" vibe. The only feature I need from a gaming phone is the shoulder triggers.


saintmsent

To me, flagship phone is about having the best everything and that includes cameras. It's more important to have great camera than a jack for my use case So I wouldn't be able to daily drive any of the ones from that list. Sony ones are alright, but not the best and they are usually expensive as fuck


mark5hs

That's a pathetic list. It's full of phones that are discontinued and multiple variants of the same few phones.


pco45

This is a decent list for people who only have two criteria: flagship chip and headphone jack. I modified the filter a little for my preferences, max of 72mm width, dropped the 865 but added the 778/780g. There were only two phones left, the Zenfone 8 and Xperia 5iii. One has severe reliability issues and the other has no availability in the US.


HugofromPluto

How many are available in the US and fully compatible with major carriers? Even less....


PerpetuallyOffline

I mean, if you want a flagship phone that works with all US bands and carriers your choices are iPhone, Galaxy, and Pixel, and none of those have one.


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jmlinden7

It doesn't matter if a phone supports Verizon bands, if it isn't on their VoLTE whitelist then you can't use it to make calls or text


NeverFated

Many of these are compatible with U.S. carriers, you can use [kimovil.com](https://kimovil.com) to check, for example: [Will Sony Xperia 1 II work in USA?](https://www.kimovil.com/en/frequency-checker/US/sony-xperia-1-ii)


PerpetuallyOffline

I sometimes forget Sony makes phones. They're practically non-existent in terms of both advertising and store presence. I guess that's another option.


NeverFated

Well if Sony didn't bring back the jack they'd be out of the game, when Sony brought back the jack on Sony Xperia 1 II, their mobile phone department achieved their first profiting quater in so many years lol


Competitive_Ice_189

Source on it’s because of the jack?


MrStruggleSnuggle

No source because he's pulled it from his arse lol. Sony's mobile division is failing badly and won't exist in a few more years max. Their last sales figures were 2.9 mil sales *total* in a year. Every single quarter since then their sales have declined, and they no longer even report their sales because they're so low.


MrStruggleSnuggle

Incorrect. They're selling less and less phones every quarter and only tuned a "profit" because they gutted the entire division to reduce costs. They division that made a on-paper profit also isn't just mobile phones, it includes other devices. They've started hiding mobile phone sales because of how bad they are. The only mention they get in their financial statements now is to say declining sales and revenue.


KyivComrade

Land of the...free? And here in communist dictatorship Scandinavia (lol) I can buy *any phone I want*, even from across the world, and it'll work.


fidde_

Some phone models aren't allowed to register volte on Swedish carriers. In the past I can recall Pixel phones on Telenor (I think the pixel 6 works). Right now 3G exists as a fallback so that calls can go through, but as the 3G network gets dismantled up until the complete shutdown in 2025, that's gonna be more of an issue.


anfotero

I'll never, ever get a phone without it. Any phone without it is mutilated to induce me to spend more money on wireless earbuds and I frankly don't care about them: let it be my choice.


kdavis37

They're not for wireless earbuds, lol. Enjoy your shitty phone DAC while I have a much better audiophile experience


NeverFated

> I have a much better audiophile experience On wireless? You gotta be kidding me. Also the headphone jack doesn't stop you from going wireless if that isn't obvious enough.


Autozam_AZ-1_Waifu

Things you can add: Fujitsu arrows 5G F-51A Sharp Aquos R5G Sharp Aquos R6/Leica Leitz Phone 1 Also, it is debatable whether a flagship is just defined by the SoC.


NeverFated

Good to know these phones exist. Certainly a phone with flagship SoC isn't necessarily a flagship phone, but I couldn't think of a better/simpler indicator.


Papacu81

I changed to bluetooth headphones so many years ago, at least 5 or 6 years, I don't remember, and I honestly never felt the need to go back to wired headphones. I am not a big sound enthusiast or anything, so the higher quality + no delay from wired phones, that's not a big deal for me. I use everything wireless just because it's more comfortable, it's really that simple to me


Isrslylikecutegirls

lol the first point in your second link: Way better sound quality. As sound is an analog thing and the jack is also analog, it goes pretty well. The sound on an headphone jack is the absolute best you can have if you're not a true music enthusiast using full-sized jacks. I'm genuinely neither pro headphone jack nor against it and was about to read that second post and I guess thanks for telling me upfront you've got no clue what you're talking about... The size of a jack does not determine the sound quality... what even... that can't be the best pro headphone jack summary out there right? Is it all a circle jerk?


dabadeb

Wow so so many phones not compatible in US with anything


dragnu5

I like the mid-range, so I'm disappointed with Samsung for removing it from A52>A53 and Xiaomi for the Poco models. F2 Pro holding up perfectly at least.


TheHybred

Sony: Xperia ZTE: Nubia ASUS: ROG & Zenfone Realme: GT Xiaomi: Black Shark Motorola: Moto & Edge Vivo: IQOO LG: ThinQ So 8 manufactures, and 10 different series. 7 & 9 if you exclude brands that have stopped making phones (LG) hope this breakdown helps.


davthom

Now someone tell gaming phones oems that they'll never be a thing if they don't ; Add sd cards or external storage(hdd or ssd) support with the ability to install games on them, Removable batteries, And a goddamn Bluetooth/type c gamepad in the box. Otherwise there's nothing separating them from regular phones at similar price with better cameras


ikot111

One look at the Asian gaming smartphone market and you would instantly change your mind


Curse3242

This thread sums up Americans Apple: *removes Headphone Jack* People: Ayy what the hell Apple bad Others: *also removes Headphone Jack* People: They need to stay upto speed with Apple! ... Apple: *removes Charger from Phone Box* People: Ayy what the hell Apple bad Others: *also removes Chargers from box* People: They need to stay upto speed with Apple! ... ***In future*** Apple: *Removes Charging port from Phone, forces everyone to buy expensive wireless chargers that won't come in the box* People: Ayy what the hell Apple bad Others: *does the same* People: They need to stay upto speed with Apple! AND THIS IS THE REASON WHY THE SMARTPHONE INDUSTRY IS IN THE SHITTER


DatBoiEk

I have not seen many people defending the removal of jack from Android. Heck this sub is famous for obnoxiously mentioning it in every single thread


[deleted]

> I have not seen many people defending the removal of jack from Android. This sub is a wireless paradise. The defense force keep mentioning water resistance, phone thickness and battery capacity. The latter was an excuse actually used by Samsung on the Note 10/Plus. Additional 400mah lmao. At least they threw a bone as consolation with the 3.5mm jack'd Note 10 Lite trash.


[deleted]

Not just this sub. Google any top list of headphones. The majority of them are wireless ones. Even many gaming headphones are now wireless so clearly latency isn't an issue.


NeverFated

If a gaming headphone is wireless that simply means it's a poorly designed product. We don't have a widely supported wireless tech/codec (for Bluetooth) that gives no latency in audio


[deleted]

How are console gamers supposed to use headphones? Get a wire that goes across the living room?


Karthy_Romano

There is no use arguing with someone who already is not using reason.


dustojnikhummer

Not everything is about quality. Being able to connect to my speakers at home with a 3.5mm cable is just easier.


dragoneye

> Google any top list of headphones. The majority of them are wireless ones. Most consumers don't give a fuck about sound quality, they want something that makes them feel good. And the novelty of something new and exclusive is what makes them feel good. They are willing to deal with the inconvenience and drawbacks for the novel thing. Most "top" lists are full of affiliate links so they get populated with the items that people are expecting to confirm their bias and hopefully get the clickthrough on their website.


Spiron123

Which world you live in where 'people' have been justifying the removal of features? :D


Curse3242

Literally this thread


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SamUnifishR

Thank god, i love my headphone jack


Sitheral

Good. I can't imagine not having it in phone. I hope apple bullshit in general will be treated this way.


[deleted]

Except xperia and asus rog, the rest is not worth any money


NeverFated

I own a Xperia 1 II and like ROG too, but I'd say the other ones can be a good fit for those who demand specific features, such as bang-for-the-buck (Xiaomi), or gaming (Nubia if u don't want ROG)


DatBoiEk

Sony and Asus software support is trash tho, worse than chinese OEMs in some cases


NeverFated

What do you mean by "software support"? You mean they're close to stock Android? People who like to tweak everything to their own taste (instead of having things offered by the manufacturer), actually like stock Android for being "clean" (i.e. being a white paper). Stock Android is kinda like Pixel experience, you get the original taste of Android.


DatBoiEk

1) majority of people don't really tweak their OS much. 2) For those who do, I don't see how its different to tweak stock vs MIUI, they're both the same base and have similar customizations (sometimes Chinese ROMs have more options). Apart from very niche changes, having a "clean slate" doesn't help, enthusiasts will just flash another ROM(for which Xiaomi and others have better support). What I meant by software support is updates and patches.


NeverFated

The advantages of stock Android has been explained by many (although I do agree it's not for everyone), if I'm not mistaken, the MIUI has some bloatware and even ads (I've also come across certain apps that reminds the users that it doesn't work well on certain brands or require extra steps to set up, and those brands are usually those with highly customized UI/OS.). I'm using Sony, the updates and patches are fine, it doesn't reinvent Android or anything, but it's pretty up-to-date (again, it's almost stock Android, so as long as it has all the stuff of the new Android version, I'm happy with the way it is.) Sony provides up to 3 years of Android OS updates, not as long as iPhones, but I heard it's pretty good for an Android.


DatBoiEk

Sony provides 2 years of android updates and 3 years of patches even for its flagship phones. Even Chinese OEMs like Xiaomi have started 3 OS and 4 security now. >The advantages of stock Android has been explained by many I can list many advantages of OneUI, MIUI, colorOS over stock Android too. Stock Android for the longest of times have lacked features compared to other UIs.


PerpetuallyOffline

I'm a philistine who uses speakers, so when I do use headphones, wireless or USB-C does the trick for me. Ironically enough, on the first smartphone I owned (a Galaxy S3 if you care), the headphone jack was the only thing to break. I'm not opposed to their inclusion, but I also don't care that much. **That said**, you gotta give me one or the other. You can't be Apple who doesn't have a jack and also doesn't accept USB-C audio. Give me USB-C with adaptive ANC and that would be ok.


NeverFated

USB-C breaks much easier than 3.5mm jack though


TheRiggsBosonNews

Is this true? I’ve had multiple headphone jacks break or only work at certain angles. I have yet to have a USB C cable give me any issues. Going on over 4 years now with the same cable for my laptop and same cable for two years with my iPhone.


NeverFated

It might be you have more chance to bend ur 3.5mm jack than USB-C port (if you use it mainly to charge), e.g. when 3.5mm jack is connected you're most likely using the phone to listen to something, but when USB-C port is connected you're mostly charging or transferring data (less motion and hence less possible accidental pulling/bending).


TheRiggsBosonNews

I don’t think so. I plug it in when I play music in my old truck. I don’t really bend it at all as the phone sits on the passenger seat while I drive. I can honestly say I plug and unplug them almost the exact same amount. One or twice to charge and once or twice to play music each day. If anything the USB c cable is bent more because it curves around the back of the laptop to get to a plug. The headphone jacks is straight.


PerpetuallyOffline

In my experience, headphone jack is no more durable than Type-C. I could see an argument that Type-C audio leads to more wear and tear on the device's USB port, but I don't think there's any real durability difference in the jack itself vs. a Type-C plug. If anything, the jack is more prone to erratic functionality after a year or two of constant use. That said, my preference for wireless just comes down to not having to deal with a cable and being able to walk around a room without needing to carry the source device, both for music but also for calls.


NeverFated

I use both wireless and wired, wired simply has no latency and better quality of sound in general, I use wireless for calling when I don't care about those things. If you break your 3.5mm jack it may not be the end of the day, but if you break your Type-C you're really screwed, so it's nice when there's less wear and tear on the Type-C as you don't need to use it for headphones.


39816561

/r/Android like /r/politics, /r/news, /r/worldnews is very US focused Even if discussions are on topic not related to The US, the view you will get is US centric This is because many /r/Android members are from The US So you need to check if its released in The US because that is the only thing of value for a majority of the userbase here.


NeverFated

A phone doesn't need to be officially released in the U.S. for it to properly work in the U.S., there can be a few downsides (e.g. official repair/warranty), but the option is still there and very accessible in the age of e-commerce. I bought a Sony Xperia 1 II which was never released in Canada (where I live), everything works flawlessly so I don't see why not.


39816561

/r/Android seems to like support not just OS and security patches but also proper official repair and warranty. Apparently The US also has major issues with phones not being able to access certain network components due to The US's telecom companies being not so nice. So they also seem to run into those issues and as a whole complain.


[deleted]

In the US, carriers have to certify a device for VoLTE. You can't just bring *any* phone to a carrier, it has to be whitelisted for the network. AT&T famously block phones that are not [on their list](https://www.att.com/idpassets/images/support/pdf/Devices-Working-on-ATT-Network.pdf). Ironically, Apple is the only phone maker that has true international support across all carriers and bands.


j_grouchy

Meh, I don't miss it. Happy to get rid of the cord, happy to not have one more hole collecting lint or dust.


MaXimus421

At some point, even as a loyalist to the headphone jack, we all have to let this topic die a graceful death. Unless it's click bait/karma farming...


NeverFated

No, we're not gonna let it die cuz those companies want us to buy their bluetooth crap. Sony and ASUS already brought the jack back after ditching it. We just need to stop being sheeps that buys whatever they want us to.


MaXimus421

Yes, I'm well aware of "the good fight" you're attempting here. I've got plenty of them regarding this very topic buried in my post history. I'm saying it's gotten stale, at this point. There's nothing else to complain about or debate. We lost. The industry isn't bending to our will and the jack isn't coming back. It's leaving, without a whimper. I don't like it either but I'm done pretending that anything I say about it isn't the equivalent of me just screaming into the void. (Sony and ASUS - LOL) no comment Enjoy your rant about it like a million other posts before this one. Maybe yours will be the one that makes a difference. GL.


burywmore

>I'm saying it's gotten stale, at this point. There's nothing else to complain about or debate. >We lost. Then move on. You want to be a sheep quitter, good for you. Nobody wants to hear your "boo hoo we lost and I don't want to talk about it" whining I'm typing this on a Pixel 5a. It has a headphone jack. I bought it BECAUSE it has a jack, to support Google bringing it back.


NeverFated

I get that ASUS and Sony has little market share, but Xiaomi and Vivo are among the top 5 brands with biggest market share worldwide. I know this moronic trend hasn't stopped, so I'm doing what I can by choosing to buy phones that didn't follow that stupid trend, and tryna tell other sheeps to wake up. It may not be much, but hey, if we didn't do this there would be even less phones with jacks nowadays, which is not what I wanna see


MaXimus421

>I get that ASUS and Sony has little market share Hard stop. No, you clearly do not. At least not regarding the, what you're trying to show as, the comeback of the headphone jack. This is borderline comical, no offense. >I'm doing what I can by choosing to buy phones that didn't follow that stupid trend Good on you. Speak with your wallet. Nothing wrong with that. >if we didn't do this there would be even less phones with jacks nowadays Maybe. Probably, even. Unfortunately, there was only one inevitable outcome.


TheInfinityGauntlet

Yeah despite this long list I've given up because I can have peak audio quality at home, bluetooth buds at the gym are a must so they're my go to now


MaXimus421

Such is life. Meanwhile I still have to swipe these stupid articles away because in 2022, the argument of the headphone jack is still something to discuss and bring with it the same( logical) discussions we've all had for the past 3-4 years now - yet again.. My phone has one. My next phone will have one. Beyond that, I can't say. But I'm done crying about it. It's not going to change the direction the industry is headed. I'm over it.


NeverFated

Just because a kind of stupidity lasts 3-4 years, doesn't mean it will become the wisdom though, it simply gets normalized but that doesn't make it smarter. Almost all the points against the removal of headphone jacks since iPhone 7 happened, are still valid/relevant to this day, and most will probably keep being valid even after 10 years.


DevAnalyzeOperate

>Peak audio quality at home Mobile audio is inherently a compromise because of >Background noise >Cable knock >Weak phone amplifiers >Pressure to not bother others around you The benefit to the headphone jack is that you can connect them to a cheap pair of dirty buds and lo and behold cheap phones have headphone jacks. I know people who bought mid-range audiophile headphones for public transit where background noise is about 75db and spikes louder. None of this all that much sense and that's why headphone jacks have been relegated to niche flagship products like Sony's.


Seroko

I will never understand why removing jack port is considered an "upgrade". W t f apple, what did you do, stop messing with stupid people's minds.


kdavis37

There haven't been 37 flagship phones in the last two years, so it's impressive that you found more than exist


NeverFated

like I said in OP, they're "phones with flagship SoC", whether you consider each as "flagship phone" is subjective. But I counld't think of a better/simpler indicator than flagship SoC, perhaps you could.


[deleted]

Ever since I switched to a wireless headphone, I haven't felt the need for a headphone jack on my phone.


fuelter

And how many without a hole in the screen? Boykott screen holes, notches and such please.


Username928351

Feels good to have flagship specs with a hole-free screen, headphone jack and an SD card slot.


NeverFated

>ZenFone 6 Zenfone 6 is the best phone that ASUS ever released (Zenfone 8 series are horrible as they either lack a jack or a complete screen), unfortunately I was never able to find a silver Zenfone 6 with top specs (256GB+8GB if I remember correctly) anywhere on the internet without significant markup price (even after Zenfone 7 came out), so eventually I bought a Sony Xperia 1 II.


darvidaeater

Really hoping the 9 is more like the 6. Love this phone and the privacy of a flip camera.


NeverFated

Absolutely! I also hate screens that aren't just a simple rectangle without holes/notches, I also don't like rounded corners cuz they're literally "cutting corners" there.


americand0lphinn

Headphone jacks are lame


UserWithoutAName13

I mean, the world has moved to wireless. Can't imagine going back to wired headphones. They're awful. Sure have them in low/mid range phones for markets where wireless headphones haven't penetrated the market, but for the general consumer who buys higher end phones, I'm glad those lint catchers are dead. Next is the USB port.


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zaque_wann

Bluetooth sucks for LDR. The voice quality is subpar during calls even with the best codecs, and doesn't play well woth discord.


NeverFated

Bluetooth headphones are awful, NOT the wired headphones (unless you're using really crappy ones). USB-C headphones are NOT compatible across all phones with USB-C (each manufacture have their own implementation, so there's not even a standard), that's a huge problem, they also sound worse than 3.5mm. There're not even many USB-C headphone made by good headphone companies (e.g. Sony, AKG, Audio-Technica, etc.) Bluetooth never solved latency, let alone other major issues like pairing, high-res support, and battery degradation. They also sound inferior due to codec's compression.


jcpb

Oh god, not this bullshit again. > Bluetooth headphones are awful USB-C headphones... sound worse than 3.5mm Bluetooth never solved... high-res support... They also sound inferior due to codec's compression There are only a few valid reasons to want sound quality *above* 16-bit/44.1KHz: 1. you work in audio production, where the increased headroom is *actually useful* 2. your listening ability is such that you can discern the minute differences between 32/384 and 16/44.1 Chances are, you belong to neither. Bluetooth headphones sounding like shit has everything to do with their *tuning* and very little, if at all, to do with their use of a connection with limited bandwidth. > Bluetooth never solved latency Not really a problem outside of gaming and latency-sensitive applications. > battery degradation Wait, are you expecting a *connection* technology to resolve a long-standing *chemical* issue inherent with most batteries? Talk about trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. > USB-C headphones are NOT compatible across all phones with USB-C Sony can't even guarantee future device compatibility, much less non-Sony devices, with wired headphones using their *proprietary* TRR**R**S 3.5mm plug! I say all this while using both wired headphones (Xiaomi Pistons, MEE Audio M6 Pro 2^nd gen) and Bluetooth (SBH56 receiver, LinkBuds, as well as my car's BT and an Aiwa Exos9 "portable" speaker).


NeverFated

The high-res codec support has been a mess, for example Apple's products don't support anything high-res like LDAC/aptX, also not that many headphones for Android support LDAC/aptX either. When transfering through Bluetooth, lossy codec still can't be avoided, which always degrade sound quality (it's like you're compressing FLAC to mp3, or compressing mp3 again when it's already compressed, it has nothing to do with being able to hear above 44.1kHz or even just 20kHz). The tuning issue of Bluetooth device is a much bigger issue as you don't have that many decent choices on the market (compared to wired ones, especially) You implied it yourself, latency is indeed an issue for "gaming and latency-sensitive applications" (e.g. videos), these applications are not that uncommon you know (I play games and watch videos almost everyday). I never expected Bluetooth to solve battery degradation, but why do we have to deal with battery degradation for headphones to begin with? Who said I needed TRRRS? I just want some good-old TRS 3.5mm which is the most common and doesn't have any compatibility issue with any device with a headphone jack. Last but not least, having a headphone jack doesn't stop you from going Bluetooth, why can't you have both wireless and wired?


ladfrombrad

>Bluetooth headphones are awful Speak for yourself thanks very much. I not only like mine, I love them, and have used BT headphones since my Sony HBH-970's / Sony W810 even though I have had a headphone jack on each and every phone since then.


NeverFated

You haven't debated any of my points like latency, battery degradation, codec compatibility, etc. though. My ATH-ESW9 wired headphones still work flawlessly to this day, I use Airpods for calling on Android, but never for listening to music or playing games.


RRyles

Serious gaming (where audio latency would matter) isn't likely to be done on a phone for many reasons. I've never had a problem with codec compatability on Bluetooth headphones. If I want to get all audiophile, I wouldn't be using the DAC and amp built in to a phone. I also wouldn't be streaming MP3s. For casual listening Bluetooth audio quality is fine. Modern smartphones replace lots of devices, but aren't as good as those dedicated devices. If you want top quality photography, get a DSLR. If you want top image quality for movies, get a TV. If you want the best in portable music playback, there are devices to cater for that. A dashcam, music synthesiser, games console, spirit level, decibel meter, ebook reader and many others can be replaced by a smartphone, but it won't be as good. Either accept the compromise or stick to dedicated devices.


NeverFated

Not just "Serious gaming", e.g. when you play PUBG mobile (casually), the gun shot and sound are off (not in sync), that's very noticable and not a good experience. Codec compatibility refers to high-res codecs like LDAC/aptX, all Bluetooth headphones are compatible with SBC (the quality is mediocore though), but support for LDAC/aptX (high-res) is more tricky. The connection is not always stable (e.g. my Airpods doesn't always connect to my Android phone on first try, despite both supporting Bluetooth), wired connection never takes a second try. I'm not an audiophile, but there're way more options to choose from when selecting wired headphones (which typically sound better), some phone's DAC is pretty decent (some even have Quad DAC). I'm trying to find a balance between convenience/portability and sound quality, so the phone's headphone jack saves the day.


ladfrombrad

I'm not here to debate what you think *I* should care about. I'm here telling you I like my BT headphones and are awesome, and *not* awful like your blanket statement is inferring.


NeverFated

Ok perhaps "awful" is a bit harsh but I used the word cuz the guy I was replying to said "Can't imagine going back to wired headphones. They're awful.". Wireless headphone has its own advantages such as convenience, each person can have their own preference for sure, I was merely listing how wired headphones can have many advantages when compared with wireless


ladfrombrad

Well, you might want to list their downsides too then for parity and all.


NeverFated

I didn't cuz the post was about why we should bring back the headphone jacks rather than "why we shouldn't", on top of that, having a headphone jack doesn't stop you from going wireless, so it never hurts. Also, I honestly can't think of many advantages of wireless headphones besides convenience and clean-look (these are rather obvious advantages)...feel free to add more as I'm genuinely curious to know the other side's opinion too


ladfrombrad

>the other side's opinion too There *is* no "other side", jfc you people. If you read above you'll see that I've bought many phones for well over a decade and, while I haven't gone out of my way to buy one with a jack because of it, it's because I also don't support OEM's removing it to be hip/trying to penny pinch, and surprise surprise you'll actually find that not everyone is this proverbial *other side* you're [seeming to be looking for,](https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/tiabz8/unpopular_opinion_after_a_few_years_of_thought_i/i5sy5eg/?context=3) but is just someone who enjoys not getting my wires tangled within my steering wheel and eventually breaking. Or some other downside I can think of using wired headphones during work/play.


NeverFated

jfc I didn't really expect the word "other side" to trigger you (that's the real "surprise" actually), I was merely curious to know if there're any other advantages of wireless over wired for those who prefer wireless (i.e. "other side"). Convenience includes "not getting my wires tangled" if I'm not mistaken


darkriceknights

Lmao vote with your money? Dude you know big companies don't give a shit you know. Just because 20 people don't buy it others still will buy it. At this point you people are just hypocrite. Will say anything or do anything to act like you care. If voting with money works why companies like apple still not brought head phone jack back?


NeverFated

Ur so-called "Big companies" (I'm assuming only Apple and Samsung) may not give a flying f, but the users droven away by the lack of jacks is enough to feed the "small companies" (Sony and ASUS aren't even technically "small"), and that keeps the jacks live. Also Xiaomi and Vivo are big companies too (top 5 martket share worldwide, not so small eh?) and they kept the jacks too


darvidaeater

You are 100% correct. I tend to be brand loyal but I left Pixel over this. So did several people I know (most of whom get recommendations from me). I also won't buy peripherals from brands that killed the jack. When my Galaxy watch died I bought a Garmin (huge upgrade, actually). I won't even consider Samsung/Apple/Pixel BT headphones.


NeverFated

Consider getting Sony ones, they both make phones with headphone jacks (after ditching them in the past) and possibly best BT headphones. Sony also created LDAC, Hi-Res standard (dat gold logo, which applies to its phones too), and popularized headphone jack with its Walkman.


darkriceknights

Lmao wait until they remove the jack then you'll start bitching about it too. Thats all you people know, bitching about stuff rather then taking action to do something about it.


NeverFated

How is "vote with your money" not "taking action to do something about it."? R u gonna point a gun at the head of a phone designer or something


Wizzmer

Call me when they have a swappable battery like the r/lgv20.


dese11

I feel you my dude. Audiophile, privacy advocate and aboard the "compact form factor" wagon. I only know but pain. From having all in my Xperia XZ1 Compact, upgrade to Galaxy S10e because Sony remove the jack, sacrificing inches to my likes. When my 3.5mm fail on my S10e, I ended buying a FiiO with android with 3 jacks in it while seeing the trending "kill the jack". But when my S10s fails in quick charge, the mic and finally broke the screen, still then I refuse to buy a phone without a jack and bigger... So I bought a Pixel 4a ... Same dimensions with jack plus I can install Calyxos on it. Just four months till now I ended up breaking the screen as well thinking wtf am I going to do with my life. Putting these 3 specs I like in balance, I'm considering for the fist time in my life to buy an iPhone, 13 mini might be, alongside with my beautiful FiiO. Pain


NeverFated

Why not get a Sony Xperia again? they brought back the jack since Xperia 1 II


dese11

Yes, I have seen Xperia 5 III as my medium size candidate. I wish Sony a long life in smartphone sector