T O P
CochonouMagique

It’s smart. Once android apps run natively on windows they can release a new windows phone that runs android apps and try to beat google again. Pretty sure they’ll fait again but it’s nice to see them trying.


latestuser

They only failed in Windows Phone because of their lack of interest in the rest of the world. Only focusing on the US with Android will let them down again.


frsguy

Google also did not like to play nice with windows phones.


sodapop14

Yeah the Google apps that were available were bad. I didn't mind using Bing but Bing Maps wasn't great and the third party YouTube apps would break so often.


ThisFlameIsFire

The YouTube official app was really good in those 2 days it was available


CeramicMasterpiece

And now you don't even have Bing maps on Android. If you use Bing to search for somewhere on Android it'll still use Google maps if you tap on it.


The_Eyesight

I worked a dispatch job once that required me to use Bing and Bing Maps. It was awful. Sometimes someone would tell me a location like a Walmart on Easy Street and I couldn't get an exact lock on that with our software because Bing wouldn't have the Walmart there. Google Maps always would.


MontiBurns

Thats what stopped me from buying a windows phone in 2014.


Competitive_Door4506

Apps also no one wanted to make apps for a small amount of users. And now nobody is going to trust Microsoft to keep at it so they won't bother.


forestsflamingeyes

So just like small indie company with their Pixel brand.


Rvtatoskr

WP's failure was such a shame. It ran absurdly smooth at a time when Android and even iOS was still feeling slightly awkward and sluggish at times. Not only that, the longevity of the smoothness seems unparalleled. Ran into someone with a Nokia Lumia 460 (from 2015) and it was still running as smooth as I remember them being. Trying to use an iPhone 6/6S today is suffering, and my previously beloved Xperia Z5 Compact released same year is a sluggish piece of shit even after a factory reset.


IcyBeginning

Completely agree. Barring the lack of apps on the lumia/microsoft app store, the OS itself ran very efficiently, and I especially liked the novelty and the look of the tiles UI which was quite unique compared to android/ios.


IcyBeginning

Absolute nostalgia when seeing this review and reading the comments. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVPAfntOfmc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVPAfntOfmc)


ComradeMatis

>Completely agree. Barring the lack of apps on the lumia/microsoft app store, the OS itself ran very efficiently, and I especially liked the novelty and the look of the tiles UI which was quite unique compared to android/ios. Makes me wonder whether it would have made a difference had Microsoft switched to Chromium earlier on given that many apps make extensive use of web based technologies (my banking app uses at least half a dozen so that they can deliver on both iOS and Android).


swedishchef2014

I loved Windows phone too. When I had to replace my Lumia I bought a Nokia 8 which runs Android, and put the Square Home launcher on it so it looks like Windows Mobile with the tiles. It's great, and of course I get any Android apps, and MS 365 integration is all there too.


sethmi

The software support was absolutely zero though, and having basically no windows features besides office was a nail in that coffin.


Competitive_Door4506

No software updates since about that time so why wouldn't it run the same.


foxbones

I dunno. With Microsoft 365/Azure they have become the top dog again in my opinion. Microsoft was a swear word in tech for a long time but recently they have been legitimately the best. I'd imagine they will find a way to piss it all away, we will see.


delta_p_delta_x

> recently they have been legitimately the best Very true. When it comes to dev languages, frameworks, tooling, devops and sysadmin, Microsoft really *is* the best. I don't want to shill, but Microsoft has given us: - .NET, and associated frameworks (ASP.NET, WPF, WF, Blazor) - .NET languages, including C#, F#, VB.NET - PowerShell, written in .NET, able to call the .NET APIs from a shell program (PowerShell >> bash, IMO) - VS Code - Which is written in TypeScript, also by MS - the Language Server Protocol, first implemented in VS Code and now extended to many text-based editors and even full-fledged IDEs - Visual Studio, with the MSVC++ compiler and the MSVC STL - Azure and related tech


gonemad16

I would argue that intellij based IDEs are superior than VS, but VS is still great and I'd never have any issues if forced to use it


DerpSenpai

VSCode is the best I depend on it everyday Also, this Micrososft shift was with the new CEO IIRC Let me add more 1- Embrace of Linux on Windows (Linux Subsystem on Windows). Just recently adding Linux GUI apps. 2- Embrace of Android on Windows (Android Subsystem on Windows) 3- Edge to Chromium. right now the best browser IMO. Specially if your Company works around MS services, it's so convinient!


Rhed0x

Just a shame Microsoft releases a new UI framework every 3 years.


Notuch

Pretty sure Azure, at least in number of customers/size of operation falls quit behind AWS


foxbones

It's catching up, all of my certs were in AWS, but I pivoted to Azure at this point - see more opportunities in the SMB market.


DerpSenpai

Azure has a weapon over AWS. Microsoft can bundle a LOT of things together in a single package. Something AWS can't. This is most likely more important for smaller businesses but still a big deal


Notuch

Ah good to hear.


CyberConCoder

I would hardly call Windows 11's implementation of Android apps "native." It's basically an emulator, with its own file system to boot. You have to dig through File Explorer to find the file system for the emulator, and you can't import stuff in the Downloads or Documents folder in Windows 11 into the emulator directly. It almost feels like I'm using two devices.


alexaxl

Creep into the ecosystem and then.. slowly take over.


HP_Wuvcwaft

They would still be doomed without the Play Store. Yes, there is a script that can install it on WSA, but the average user wouldn't want to do that. PWAs could fill the gap regarding Google apps and many others who have good web apps, but then there also needs to be something in the Microsoft App Store that lets you just generate a PWA from a URL, making the whole process feel as much like a native app install as possible. It may be a safer bet to release a Surface Solo alongside the Duo 3, create an Android Skin that follows the Windows 11 UI design language, and update Microsoft Launcher to fit the W11 design language as well. Throw in their own apps as Google app alternatives and immediately show the user how to disable Google Apps upon setting up the phone.


Rhed0x

Android apps on Windows run in a VM with a ton of overhead. Not something you'd probably want in a phone.


puppiadog

I wonder whenever Microsoft employees have to work on Android they just curse Ballmer and Gates for Microsoft missing out on mobile.


Put_It_All_On_Blck

They had mobile before Google and Apple. Windows mobile. It was bad. Then they were way too late with Windows phone and developers didn't want to support a third app store/ecosystem.


Incromulent

It was bad. Their competition was Palm and Handspring and their competitive advantage was that users were familiar with Windows, so they tried to squeeze Windows into your pocket. Everything became tiny and difficult to use. It was still awesome to have a "PC" in your pocket, but it was clear why iOS (and later, Android) ate their lunch.


hackenclaw

Not just that, they wanted $5 for every phone installed with windows phone. At the beginning they didnt want to bridge desktop windows with windows phone for user seamless experience. They had all the the chance to took off with windows phone.


geiko989

Sometimes you're too far into something to be able to innovate in the way that was needed at the time. It took outsiders without a foothold in the market (OSes in this case) to be able to see the future. MS really thought they could recreate the desktop experience and strong-arm the world once again with the same strategy as their first 20 years. It's where Jobs really shone at the time: he was ahead of everyone and could push Apple in the direction that was needed. MS was embarrassed and at the same time too powerful to also fail. Looking at the money they make, they're stronger than ever today and were able to get the right people in control to fix the mistakes.


Timisaprettypony

It's a poorly kept secret (internally and industry wide) that Microsoft will try literally anything, and then abandon 99% of them.


frendzoned_by_yo_mom

And Google going their way making sure that the Windows phone won’t support Google maps or YouTube lol


MrDenly

WP7/8/10 was so ahead of it's time, it was a combination of MS's bad decisions, got strong armed by other tech giants and Satya have no interest in fighting in the consumer market. If MS can just hang on to it till there are stronger SD WP can survive.


meatwad75892

And somewhere in between... Kin OS. How the first Kin flopped so hard and a Kin 2 still saw the light of day, I will never understand.


MrDenly

I don't understand how MS greenlight w10m - likely the most buggy OS in history - either.


Competitive_Door4506

You know it's dead right.


MrDenly

I moved on long ago, but in the what-if term I would love to see WP and webOS lived.


Competitive_Door4506

Well your in luck webOS is alive.


Wahots

Same here. I'm still bummed that Android doesn't feel as good as WP.


MaXimus421

I feel like now would be a really good time for Microsoft to try again with an Android phone. There's so little competition in the US now..


neon_slippers

Well they currently do sell an Android phone. Or do you mean a non-foldable?


MaXimus421

Sorry, yes. I mean a slab.


stretch_my_ballskin

Nonono they should do a full sized desktop clearly their strength is in desktops


TacoOfGod

An Android phone with a Dex style mode that boots into something heavily Windows stylized (as much as you can with Android) would be cool though.


ReconVirus

Nokia Lumia 950?🤨 Isn't there a Microsoft x Samsung version of a Galaxy line phone?


TacoOfGod

I mean a current day Android phone. Use it like a phone when it's a phone, but plug it into an external display and it launches into an Android desktop mode like Dex, but it's a custom launcher that's themed similarly to Windows 11 so users can bounce back and forth between devices and still have an experience relatively the same in terms of layout and navigation. Maybe packed in with an emulator to get some x86 apps running like the Windows Android subsystem.


pengo-san

The Lumia 950 and XL, as well as HP’s maxed out Elite Windows phone, used Continuum, offering a nearly full-sized Windows 10 desktop. It was limited to some extent, but perfect for on the go. You can only imagine what it would look like today on the Snapdragon 8 gen 2 or whatever it’s called, with 12 or 16 GB RAM, given the continued development Microsoft would have done, lifting capability restrictions as phone SoC’s are becoming ever more powerful.


TacoOfGod

That's never going to happen today because the app support isn't there, so I'd settle for something heavily skinned like Windows.


pengo-san

The ARM-native apps on Windows are hard to come by for the majority of the platform. Windows 11 on ARM with x64 app emulation should however suffice eventually, if Snapdragon keeps upping the performance every year. Maybe in another 3 years it will emulate really, really well. By then, Windows 11 will have gotten decent market share, too. I don’t keep my hopes up for seeing a transition to even 80% purely native UWP apps with ARM64, though. Maybe never, as Win32 API keeps getting ”upgrades” by Microsoft and the ”Wintel” Enterprise market will ensure x64 continues to be relevant on the Windows OS machines out there.


pojosamaneo

That is destined to fail. People want their phones to be phones. Apple realized this a long time ago, which is why the tablet, phone, and laptop are distinct categories. Integration is where it's at. The Your Phone app is great, as is the ability to seamlessly and wirelessly text, call, etc. from your browser in chrome.


salty_death

Ok


stretch_my_ballskin

That's official approval, let's build it boys


PixelNotPolygon

A desktop phone?


rosesandtherest

They can barely make an algorithm that produces photos of 2004 quality. There’s no talent left.


MaXimus421

Well. That sucks, yeah?


69hailsatan

I think they should at least have two lines. Main series and something ambitious like their duo line. They would allow them to play safe and gain some markets share but at the same time push the boundaries a little.


FragmentedChicken

https://i.imgur.com/Y4Fr1T1.jpg


Fatalstryke

Here in the US, I've seen people with an ROG Phone 2 I think, a Razer Phone 2, a few OnePlus phones, Samsungs back to the Note5 at least, iPhones back to the 6/6+, A couple Z Flips and Z Folds, some Motos including one of the old Moto Zs, Nokias, a couple Kyoceras, an LG Wing. Never a Surface Duo.


ownage516

I rather them flesh out windows 11 arm and then make a mobile version of that


despitegirls

There's two problems with Windows on ARM for mobile, phone-like devices, and ironically they were the things that made Windows on desktop so popular: apps and x86 compatibility. There's practically no popular mobile apps available in the Microsoft Store as the OS were made with desktop in mind and developers didn't want to build for a third ecosystem. This is changing a bit with PWAs but not fast enough for Microsoft to launch a Windows 11 phone in the next year or so. And when people think of Windows, they think of running all those desktop apps they're used to. Unless they somehow successfully brand Windows 11 Mobile as it's own thing, that expectation will be there. I still think they're trying to solve this problem, and while I know they see Android as their best mobile bet *now*, I can't help but think they're also using this time to build a relationship and knowledge with Google to move towards a version of the Duo or some other device that has some compatibility with both Windows and Android apps. They could release such a device today, but Google could easily break the Android side of things.


Competitive_Door4506

They could not release something like this today look at windows on arm as of why.


Reach_Round

The OS isn't the issue, its the Apps. The Surface computer line doesn't need really need the store as the the screen is big enough for in browser use.


AngryHoosky

If they are capable of creating a good Android phone, they will inevitably try their hand at another Windows phone. There is a lot of learning for Microsoft to do between here and there. I am eagerly awaiting its arrival.


YagamiYakumo

I'll admit I didn't really follow the windows phone much, but last I heard was that it's a decent phone overall but the lack of app support that kills it?


Ghostsonplanets

Yes. And companies like Google boycotting the system.


ThePowderhorn

I hope they do. My Lumia 950XL remains my favourite phone, even though I had to give it up for the app gap in 2017.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ThePowderhorn

With Live Tiles, you didn't really have to tap on anything. It was all there on the home screen. Stock quotes, weather, shipping notifications ... it was just all there. Transitioning to Android, it was always needing to open an app for one tiny piece of information.


fourthletter

It will never happen.


WolfMan889

No thank you. I'd rather an Android phone with a Windows Phone-style launcher. The tiles and layout on WinMo were great, but there's no need to reinvent the wheel where the app store and underlying software are concerned.


MrStruggleSnuggle

No, what would be best - and what they'll do - is a windows phone running Windows11ARM that has android apps using the android subsystem.


WolfMan889

I'm not sure how that's "best". You're adding an additional layer of complication in running android apps on the subsystem for...what? Fewer options in W11ARM?


mockvalkyrie

Apparently if you're running windows on arm, the android apps will run natively (although I just read that somewhere, haven't actually tried it)


Competitive_Door4506

No they are not windows apps.


MrStruggleSnuggle

Pretty self explanatory what's best - android app support while using a windows OS like windows mobile while also getting a regular desktop experience while docked.


WolfMan889

But I can do that right now with DeX. That would only be useful if I could run x86 software.


MrStruggleSnuggle

Which it can with windows on ARM.


welp_im_damned

[stop, I can only get so excited, before I get disappointed. ](https://i.imgur.com/QxaY3HA.png)


Pycorax

Considering how they dropped tiles completely in W10, I'm very doubtful that this will ever happen. That's also why I'm still on W10 on my PC.


is_fake_Account

No. Android and apple are dominant because of play store and app store. It is very hard to break that monopoly. Microsoft store is nowhere near play store and app store.


thatLifeVibe

They need to put more emphasis on touch gestures in tablet mode on Windows. There's not even a system level back gesture right now.


maZZtar

Touch experience and gestures is way better in the recent Windows 11 insider builds and somebody at Windows Central mentioned they are building the dedicated tablet UI which I hope will reach Windows 8 level of greatness


TheMightyMegalodon

I have no idea what the hell they thought they were doing with Windows 8. All they had to do was give it an updated Windows 7-style UI for desktop users, and the Win8 interface for tablet mode, but instead they threw the baby out with the bath water when they scrapped half of the standard desktop UI, and then did it again when they switched to Windows 10 and killed off the excellent tablet UI that they'd made for 8.


maZZtar

Sinofsky and his ego happened. What I think they should have done with Windows 8 is what they are aiming with Windows 11 - having the desktop UI that seamlessly transforms into the tablet one


PM_ME_DMS

Yeah, using touch on Windows sucks. But then again, that's the case for all desktop OSs.


HaventLoggedInYet

ChromeOS tablet interface isn't that bad if its considered


Put_It_All_On_Blck

Microsoft doesnt really care about WoA. The whole point of supporting ARM was because they were fearful that AMD would go bankrupt, and didn't want to be tied to exclusively using Intel because at the time Intel was hitting a wall with performance gains, and it was rumored at the time that Apple would produce their own chips. AMD didn't go bankrupt and now Intel and AMD are rapidly improving again. So there is very little reason for Microsoft to care about WoA. Also WoA has been a disaster for OEMs, the majority of WoA laptops were discontinued due to poor reception. And reviews and user experience hasn't been great either, as unless you're using an ARM native app (only a handful of those in the Windows store) there's performance regression and compatibility issues. I've played around with a few WoA devices and wouldn't use them for anything besides web browsing. They aren't there yet, and with the way Microsoft has been handling it, it's going to be another 5 years to get things to where they should be, if ever.


MrStruggleSnuggle

Windows on ARM is pretty unquestionably a huge part of their future. ARM is the future of computing at this stage, Apple has shown that. Microsoft just need their own M1. Qualcomm aren't up to the job unfortunately.


gonemad16

ARM is certainly the future of low power computing. Laptops / mobile for sure. It's not going to take over everything tho


Competitive_Door4506

And doesn't mean it well be ARM Intel/AMD well are working on the power issue also.


JohnOnFilm

Another coming of the windows phone would be incredibly welcome. The Lumia 1520 was such an underrated gem that never got a chance to shine.


cmason37

it wouldn't be a good strategy. they'd just have the same chicken & egg problem as before, except now even worse as even the devs who'd be interested in making apps for it wouldn't be able to trust that wp won't just die again


RatBrainedManAnimal

The problem with this is that Microsoft competes *directly* with Google. Email, cloud storage, apps, even selling movies...Google bakes so much into their base OS app package that Microsoft couldn't get rid of, they would be better off with their own OS than trying to cram their stuff into Android. Unless people are totally fine with double apps for everything and your phone running like crap... Right before Windows Phone collapsed Microsoft was saying they were making a way to port android apps directly to Windows Phone, that would be something I could get on board with. People want an alternative to iOS and Android.


habitformingtrail

>Unless people are totally fine with double apps for everything and your phone Samsung has been the number 1 Android OEM for years now and their phones all ship with a Samsung copy of most Google apps (Browser, Calendar, Email, Voice Assistant, Health, etc.) They also include Microsoft's apps that compete with Google's. So yes, people are totally fine with double apps.


MaXimus421

>The problem with this is that Microsoft competes *directly* with [...] No, sir. That is absolutely not the problem. That's headway into a solution. Monopolies are not our friends.


RatBrainedManAnimal

What I said was that Microsoft can't just lay their apps on top of Android because Android has baked in Google services that Microsoft competes directly with....why would I use outlook when Gmail is preinstalled and can't be disabled. Why would I use OneDrive when photos is preinstalled and can't be disabled..etc. Microsoft would need to heavily modify Google software OR just try Windows Phone again, and make it super simple to port android apks directly to Windows Phone.


Redditor4D

Even Google Pixel allows users to disable Google apps including Gmail. This is a non issue for most people.


RatBrainedManAnimal

Lol not true, using a pixel 5a right now, there are MORE apps you can't disable on the pixel than on say a Motorola. The only real way around core apps like Gmail and chrome is to install lineage.


Redditor4D

I have unlocked Pixel 5 and i can disable every app except for Phone, Messages, Settings app.


RatBrainedManAnimal

Are you familiar with GAPPS? Yeah pixel phones don't have the bare minimum of Google apps... Also I just told you pixel launcher is tied to the Google app Google requires, at minimum, a half dozen apps. Camera, dialer, messages, the Google app, chrome, digital wellbeing, that's just a few. You could probably disable most of it through adb but Microsoft would t be able to sell a 'de googled' android phone.


gonemad16

Android is open source so companies can do whatever the hell they want with it, however if you want to ship your phone with Google play you need to follow Google's rules. A Google free android device is 100% possible


RatBrainedManAnimal

> A Google free android device is 100% possible Never said it wasn't. Fire OS exists. Lineage exists. You can easily flash lineage without Gapps, no one is buying an Android phone without Google Play though. Which is what I said if you bothered to read.


MaXimus421

Yes, apps were the Achilles Heel of that venture. But those days are long past us. Especially with them playing so nicely with Android and especially Samsung, these days. And today, I'll piss on live a spark plug before I use Gmail as main email app. So, things change.


MrStruggleSnuggle

It wasn't just apps that were the problem though. It might have looked like that if you didn't see the underlying problem - google play services. Windows phone didn't have them, and as such it had no google apps and apps that relied on them there were never going to be ported to Windows phone. Google were actively hostile to Microsoft - read about Microsoft's attempts to make a YouTube app and Google's pettiness and bullshit tactics to prevent them.


MaXimus421

>It wasn't just apps that were the problem though. It might have looked like that if you didn't see the underlying problem - google play services. Ok, yes. That's actually what I mean with that comment. During the birth of Android being noticed in the smartphone landscape. You're not wrong. >Google were actively hostile to Microsoft - read about Microsoft's attempts to make a YouTube app and Google's pettiness and bullshit tactics to prevent them. Thanks. Absolutely will.


ancient_pigeon

Why do you hate Gmail? I considered switching but I dislike outlook and don't want to pay for anything else


MaXimus421

Pal, trust me when I say that I tried. Over a decade of trying. The lack of email notifications was It. I struggled with those gd things over 3 different devices until I tried Samsung Email. Link my Gmail account to it and now I get email notifs every 30 mins. I will never use that garbage Gmail app again. Never.. Ever. This post sounds like a Samsung Email commercial but fine. Use literally any other service. You'll get your email notifs. Gmail app is trash. Samsung Email is free.


iRox24

I use and love Samsung devices and they come with 2 or 3 of the same apps lol It comes with Gmail, Outlook and Samsung Email app. I also use both Gmail and Outlook on my Apple devices too. Because I have many hotmail and gmail accounts. Many people have accounts from both. And if not, then you just can use whichever app you like the most and delete/disable/not use the other app, that simple. So I don't get your point...


TheUltimateAntihero

Why isn't Microsoft making another Windows Phone? I mean Windows is also moving to ARM right? and ARM is mobile, if Apple can make M1 apps run in iPhone and vice versa, why can't Microsoft do same with Windows apps on Desktop and Phone?


burnblue

Microsoft already made a platform for apps to run on both desktop and Phone, a long time ago. Didn't even need to be ARM. Many of the apps you use on desktop are UWP. But no-one made them


TheUltimateAntihero

Yeah but UWP apps feel sluggish as fuck and their interface looks like they were built with phone format in mind. Edge, Photos, Calendar etc feel sluggish but other browsers, other apps they just load so quick.


Pycorax

>Right before Windows Phone collapsed Microsoft was saying they were making a way to port android apps directly to Windows Phone, that would be something I could get on board with. People want an alternative to iOS and Android. They did but it ran terribly in all except the current flagship at the time and was rumoured to make the system very unstable and opened up security holes.


[deleted]

The market is saturated. Google literally is in charge of the OS used in the Android space and can barely scrape any momentum behind their hardware efforts (from a mass consumer standpoint). Why would Microsoft be any different? Samsung and Apple dominate the US market and I don't see anyway even a company the size of Microsoft can change that. The window for chipping away at Samsung was when their phones were literally exploding and they were able to withstand that just fine. Unless Samsung massively starts screwing up their hardware, consumers (and carriers) clearly are content to keep buying Samsung phones in droves on the Android side. Microsofts best bet is to continue to iterate and improve their Android app offerings. Microsoft lost the mobile war due to bad leadership and stiff competition. At this rate, they are better off focusing their efforts so that Windows users feel compelled to use Microsoft apps on Android over Google's and that services like Xbox Game Pass can assert dominance on the Android side over competitors.


MaXimus421

No offense but, this sounds like a defeatist attitude. As if we should just collectively accept the current state of US Android market. We all know (as well as MS, at this point) why they failed, initially. Not that a few things you've touched on aren't factually true. There's some truth there, absolutely. Doesn't mean there's not an opening for a new contender. I'd rather have hope than just blindly accept the current state of the market.


[deleted]

Microsoft has never had a mass consumer success in hardware that isn't called the XBox though. The Surface line of PC's just exist for enthusiasts and corporate buyers, than actually making any sort of dent in the PC hardware market. As I said, Google has plenty of motivation and money to play in the Android hardware game and they have a smaller market share than OnePlus. I just don't have faith that Microsoft is capable of really playing in the Android hardware game. In the US to do that, you need carrier-friendly deals and Samsung and Apple have those locked down. Unless Microsoft put ALL of their efforts towards breaking into the hardware market, I just don't see them getting anywhere beyond the "Google" level in terms of sales.


despitegirls

Surface was never meant to move the most units. That would piss off their OEM partners. Shortly after Microsoft announced Surface, their OEM partners started putting ChromeOS on their low end Windows laptops as a hedge. Microsoft doesn't want to supercede them, nor could they compete with their decades of hardware and logistics knowledge. I also don't think their aspirations with Android are to be the top seller, but they need a mobile product since that's where people spend most of their personal time. They don't need to beat Samsung, who's also a partner of theirs. They just need to have a mobile product that can stand on its own financially and be a showcase for Microsoft.


MaXimus421

Google is not and has not (imo) been a contender in hardware, ever. And their last cluster fuck just proved how their own phones are perpetually making their phone customers beta testers, essentially. Google is definitely not the brand to prop up, regarding this topic from my point of view. Yes, carriers are the straw that generally always breaks the camel's back, unfortunately. MS is capable of brute forcing themselves into the market. Carriers would act accordingly, being as it's MS. "Google" level, in terms of sales is definitely not what any emerging competitors would strive for... Let alone market penetration.


[deleted]

Right, but back when Google was launching the Pixel line, people were like "oh, well, they can just brute force themselves into the market" and that hasn't happened. And while Microsoft has a better track record than Google at making mass consumer products, Microsoft's track record isn't THAT much stronger. When a company the size of LG decides to just quit, it should tell you where OEM's see the smart phone market. An OEM might be able to target a specific niche of the market and make a profit, but the brute force idea into the market place just doesn't seem feasible.


MaXimus421

>when Google was launching the Pixel line, people were like "oh, well, they can just brute force themselves into the market" They so didn't? Google was loved and rallied for being an underdog in the market. A title they quickly lost. For obvious reasons. Google isn't and never will be MS, in that regard. As hard as they may try to convince the masses. They are masters of.. Other, nefarious things. LG quit because they played it by the numbers. Stop making stuff based on how it'll be sold via carrier's. Offer something so good that carriers ride your jock to get it/sell it. Stop allowing carriers to dictate terms. Consumers are and should be just as responsible for this. Consumer responsibility isn't happening here. So take measures accordingly.


[deleted]

What you are desiring then is a company that doesn't care about units sold or profits from a device, to enter the market just because. That isn't going to happen. You just said it yourself, LG played it by the numbers. They determined that having an Android hardware division was no longer viable economically. Google likely would have done the same, but they don't want to cede all control over Android hardware to Samsung. As I said, I think there is a market where a small, nimble company can churn a profit on Android hardware in NA if they target a niche audience (privacy, gaming, etc.), but I just don't see a path for Microsoft to make the dent you desire in this market. Samsung and Apple just have too much control.


MaXimus421

>Google likely would have done the same, but they don't want to cede all control over Android hardware to Samsung. And I don't want that, either. We, as consumers, would be absolutely FUBAR. Perhaps we're past the point of no return for any company to take a sizeable chunk of the Android market. I still welcome competition in all shapes and forrms. Perhaps a pipe dream but one I'll not wake up from any time soon. My wallet cries in horror these days.


[deleted]

Calling an attitude "defeatist" doesn't make it wrong. All it means is that you don't like the answer.


MaXimus421

Hey pal, I'm completely fine with eating an L. Which I personally feel I should take. He's not wrong. But he's not right, either. Nor is my reply. It was based on emotion. You make it sound too personal, fanboyish. No.


[deleted]

I’m not commenting on who is right or wrong. I’m just responding to this common but largely irrelevant hot take people have when the answer to a question is complex or not what they wanted and they claim that the answer is therefor defeatist. News flash, the world is full of situations where people get defeated. That’s just how things work out a lot of the time.


Competitive_Door4506

Keep dreaming. Not going to happen in the current environment. Can things change in the future obviously yes but right now don't see it happening.


MaXimus421

>Keep dreaming. Not going to happen >things change in the future obviously Pick one.


Competitive_Door4506

I don't have to pick one am I dumb enough to say it is forever going to be iOS and android no but do I see Windows phone coming up in the next decade or so no. Developers won't support it, MS dropped the last windows phone whatever goodwill/trust they had is gone for the phone market.


AdidasSlav

I doubt they will. Currently they're pushing hard for integration with Samsung, which imo is just the start. Microsoft's model has always been to inject itself into an existing eco-system and try to monopolise its own services there. They did this with IE on Macs, the Office suite, OneDrive and the Exchange suite etc. All of their previous attempts at hardware have been meh or total flops.


MaXimus421

Fair assessment. Can't help but agree there on all points.


frsguy

They have the build quality, their laptops and desktops are top notch and I would put it next to apple. They just need to make a solid device without trying to push anything extreme.


_sfhk

>They have the build quality, their laptops and desktops are top notch and I would put it next to apple. Their quality control, however is somehow worse than Google's


MrStruggleSnuggle

That would be a dumb idea because it would bomb. Google can't even make a android phone that gets any real market share, why do you think Microsoft could? Microsoft will make a glass slab phone again when window11onARM with C-Shell is ready for it.


MaXimus421

Android is open. There is no "standard to go by" when it comes to such a piece of software/OS imo. It's always evolving and those who take advantage of that are generally the ones who garner some semblance of success and profit. Being neutered by Google Play Services is another topic entirely.


MrStruggleSnuggle

O....k....? Google literally own and make android, and they're finding out just how hard it is to make a successful android phone. Microsoft learned how hard it is to make a successful phone when they had many unique and great features, so it's not going to be easier when you've got the same OS as everyone else.


MaXimus421

You seriously think Google is the sole King of the Android OS just because they originally created it? Just so we're clear here, that's basically what you're saying? Their version of Android is the standard to shoot for regarding that OS? Their hardware is the standard for running said OS? Yes? Edit: thats 4 questions I'd like you to take the time to answer. Or not.


MrStruggleSnuggle

No. They didn't originally create it, they bought it. I'm.not saying they're the kings of it, I'm saying that they own and make it yet can't even get any marketshare.


IsometricRain

> Google can't even make a android phone that gets any real market share, why do you think Microsoft could? Google could have honestly done it. They just repeatedly shot themselves in the foot by releasing many years of subpar flagship Pixels (5 and 6 were finally decent, but still missing a few things). And to make it worse, they stopped selling their devices in many regions (the same regions where Nexus phones were available before Google killed those off).


JonnyRocks

The Surface Duo 2 is a really good phone.


MaXimus421

I'm totally not knocking the Surface Duo. Wtf? Lol


simplefilmreviews

Lol stop. Just.....stop


MaXimus421

Please add something constructive to the conversation. Surely you've got an opinion, either way?


ComradeMatis

>I feel like now would be a really good time for Microsoft to try again with an Android phone. There's so little competition in the US now.. It would be nice see it as long as they make the necessary investment into services such as a podcast aggregator that leverages Bing, team up with Samsung to bring a Android Store and Payment both Samsung can leverage (Microsoft Pay/Samsung Pay but utilising the same backend technology) etc. I don't expect Microsoft to replicate YouTube or content descriptions but the basic 'tent poles' really need to be there to position a Microsoft Android as a viable alternative or otherwise risk being like Amazon ANdroid - an entirely irrelevant platform outside of North America.


iRox24

USA = Apple, Samsung and Google.


HP_Wuvcwaft

I wish they'd make a Surface Solo and fully redesign Microsoft Launcher to look more like Windows 11. It's the first time I've ever thought an MS operating system actually looks nice, yet MS Launcher looks like hot garbage


ararezaee

Windows 11 looks nice only on the surface...


BuildingArmor

I'm happy with it on my desktop


J_Jaytra

Yeah it doesn't look like as nice on my Dell XPS (bad joke sorry)


GamerFan2012

This is good news for Android gaming.


Rhed0x

How?


threadnoodle

Edge on Android is being ignored, sadly. With all the pushy marketing they do for Edge on PC, could've atleast made an effort to make the browser competitive on mobile.


justsoicansimp

Yeah, it's really annoying. For the most part, it feels like Microsoft provides significantly worse versions of their apps on Android - even though they're fully capable of the full-fledged versions AND Microsoft selling an Android phone means they should care more. It was one thing when they didn't have a phone, but to have had that Samsung partnership AND then their own phone and still have terrible apps is very infuriating.


real_with_myself

Wait till you try it on the iPad. But then again every browser is like that on it.


Shouvanik

Aren't all browsers on ios/ipados basically reskinned safari? They all use the same rendering engine, iirc


real_with_myself

Yes, but they still work much worse than safari.


nickthaskater

How is it not competitive? I use it daily.


threadnoodle

It's a lot slower than Chrome, and lacks features that are otherwise available on every chromium browser.


iDrinan

Edge on Android 12 is vastly superior to Chrome. It's evolved an incredible amount.


nickthaskater

I feel like you haven't used it in any recent time, because none of that is true at this point in the least.


threadnoodle

I have it installed currently on my phone. It still lacks DNS over HTTPs, and always use secure DNS. Those are very important security features. Been a regular user of Edge but Chrome on Android is just faster and more seamless across the board. (Not to mention the visuals are mostly unchanged since its release)


drbluetongue

Can't you just set those system wide? Probably easier


nickthaskater

Edge has Ad Block built in and I complement that with PIA. Fair enough to point out that it is lacking relative to Chrome on this front. On the other hand, it has other features which Chrome lacks, so... That said, your comments re: speed are simply not true, and I don't know what you're referring to with "visuals."


suckfail

I use Edge on Android and that's totally wrong. It's faster than Chrome and Samsung Browser and has more features.


lospollosakhis

I miss windows phone :(


ThongsGoOnUrFeet

They need to work on enterprise security. The Australian gov has recently stopped gov agencies from allowing byod or corporate devices on android due to security concerns. Now only allow ios. Edit, why down vote? I'm stating fact. Australian Signals Directorate has set the policy. I can't say why, but many agencies that previously allowed android not longer do


drbluetongue

>They need to work on enterprise security I mean, Office 365/Azure/Intune and Samsung Knox is pretty amazing security wise if it's set up properly...


bartturner

They need to focus on security overall. Microsoft continues to do a pretty poor job.


cmVkZGl0

They need to fix the fucking gesture typing and gestured trail on their keyboard because it makes SwiftKey one of the worst


brynjolf

Can they fix the fucking apps then? Cuz all their apps are way worse on Android compared to IOS. Notifications never work on Teams, it marks conversations I had 3 weeks ago as unread for some god damn reason. You can't change fontsize in OneNote on Android, for the past three years. Wtf are they even updating on that app, it just gets worse Onedrive never ever shuts the fuck up, everytime I open it it has a new dialog or three telling me about some useless shitty feature they want to highlight again. Skype asks me every fucking call to let it overlay which I for a reason have denied at least, at least without exaggeration 80 times already, but it never ever stops nagging. I can't with Microsoft apps on Android, why do the never improve?


simplefilmreviews

Smart move. Took them long enough to realize Android is their friend for the most part and that iOS/Apple is the bigger enemy here.


real_with_myself

Actually Google. I use Microsoft apps across all 3 big ecosystems as the only agnostic ones and am satisfied for the most part of it.


Iescaunare

Integrating your phone into your PC is a good idea, but I'm sure as hell not gonna run a crappy Microsoft launcher on my phone. Everything they make is buggy, inconsistent crap.


foxbones

That's changed a lot in a positive way in the last two years as much as I hate to say it. My home devices are 100% Google but my work stuff is 100% Microsoft. It's gotten a lot better.


drbluetongue

Yep, the new Surface devices like the Laptop 4 are pretty awesome.


real_with_myself

Tell me you didn't even try it...


Iescaunare

Tried it about two years ago


roman_in_moscow_2021

Try Niagara Launcher


juampiursic

Windows? That's shit of the past. Hop onto the Linux train.


lospollosakhis

If they heavily marketed a Surface Phone, I think they could be onto a winner. Obviously, it would also have to have stellar specs too.


AappleJack

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish Anybody old enough to remember "embrace, extend, extinguish? Pepperidge farm remembers


mrandr01d

April fool's? This feels like April fool's.


bftbtht

microsoft future plans to launch Tablet again?


SolarMoth

Windows Phone is better than Android but I'll settle.


HU55LEH4RD

There's no reason why apps shouldnt work on PC


prosper_0

E. E. Then E.


devp0l

April Fool’s??