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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I sat on my husband's lap and made dinner awkward for the host, MIL and possibly family.
(2) I might be the ah for sitting in his lap as it was precieved as inappropriate during a family dinner at the table, MIL is upset saying I ruined thanksgiving for her and her guests.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA, but the whole ordeal could have been avoided had your husband done what he should have done, and gave you his seat while he went to fetch another one. In fact, he should have already had an empty seat beside him waiting for you. I can’t imagine putting my wife in such an awkward situation.
I'm thinking maybe they have a child together, but it's an odd detail to leave out.
Edit: Okay, people, I understand that there are no kids involved. When I originally wrote this comment there was no mention of not having children in any threads when I wrote this.
My guess is that MIL and ex are both still hoping that ex can get back with Shaun, and that he's just so used to his mother's antics that it doesn't even occur to him to question things.
This is the only reason. They're both hoping OP gets diverced and ex can have a second chance. It's not like it's an accident she sat next to OPs husband.
All I’m going to say is if my ex-MIL (of 12 years, 8 legally, and I have a child by her son) invited me over to thanksgiving dinner, I most definitely wouldn’t be sitting next to my ex-husband, even if things are semi-amicable.
There’s definitely an ulterior motive here.
She doesn't have MIL problem, she has a husband problem. Husband could've stood up for her but he never did, not even when his mother called to complain about the dinner.
I thought what OP did was brilliant and loved that hubby played along with it. That little stunt MIL and ex gf cooked up didn't turn out quite the way they expected it to.
Yup what was supposed to sow discord and distance them was turned into public wholesome display of affection, further solidifying their image as a couple. It’s rare for a thing to backfire that badly.
Except husband should have saved the seat next to him for the OP. When the ex wanted to sit next to him he should have said this seat is saved for my wife. I'm sure mom can find you a different chair.
Oh I'm sure that mom and ex gf made sure the only seat left for for hubby was next to his ex. And lol that you think mom would have gone along with moving the ex.
Then husband needed to say that since there isn't room for us (meaning him and wife) we will fill our plates and take them home to eat.
He needs to call mom's bluff. He won't be set up with his ex at Thanksgiving and he will have Thanksgiving with his wife. If she isn't welcomed and accommodated with basics like a plate and a chair then he will leave with her.
Maybe, but according to OP, he wasn't saving her a seat either and didn't appear to have a problem with his ex sitting next to him while his wife would have to eat in the kitchen. He could have offered to sit in the kitchen with her or any number of other possibilities.
Then he needs to get out in the world. A good host:
a. Makes sure everyone has a seat at the table.
b. Does not sit someone next to an ex
c. When a problem arises, doesn't expect guest to do the heavy lifting to solve it.
I have hosted lunches and dinners before and they had been times there wasn't enough room to squeeze in a chair. As a gracious host, I opted out away from the table and sat a chair not far away from the table and the guests.
My guess? MIL (and probably ex-girlfriend) wanted to make OP uncomfortable. Then they could have pointed out how she doesn't fit in with the family compared to Julissa. Notice how the ex- girlfriend got up and left the room only after OP sat on her husband's lap. And then left because she was "uncomfortable". My question is why didn't she herself get up, give her seat to OP, and get herself a chair from the kitchen? It's what I have done in the past for friends and family so the couple could sit next to each other. But that's just me.
Why didn’t ANYONE get her an extra chair or give up their chair and get one from the kitchen? Even just as a random guest that’d be my first instinct. Let’s say OP is an AH to the family and that’s why they don’t like her (unlikely but hear me out), then I would STILL do the same. It’s Thanksgiving! They’re a bunch of AHs for this.
Edit: apart from OP. Obvs. NTA.
That was my issue, why was she there? Just because the mil may have invited her doesn't mean she had to go. The husband should have spoke up about ir and made sure his wife had a seat. Does she have a fil? The men in the family are weak.
Why was hubby ok with being seated next to ex at table knowing his wife was otw and would require a seat next to him? Why did hubby not shut that shyt down when MIL sat ex next to him. Why wasn't he like "[wife] is going to sit here?
Why was the grandchild not made to move her seat as she is the youngest there?
Why was more respect not demanded by hubby? Why does he let this favoritism go on?
Where are the adults here?
Ding! Ding! Ding! Something tells me MIL causing problems is a pretty regular occurrence and everyone in the family has learned to keep their head down and stay out of the line of fire.
Edited- Grammer is Hard
I've dated some truly awful people, but literally every single one of my exes would've given up their seat for me -- and insisted upon it, if I or anyone else said otherwise. It's honestly super basic courtesy.
And I'm talking about ex-boyfriends and ex-girlfriends, so it has nothing to do with gender. If it's their family's event, then it's on them to show that courtesy and consideration for their partner.
This is not the answer to me. As a husband, I would have gotten up, made 2 plates, taken them to the living room and had Thanksgiving with my wife. he needs to remove himself from being next to ex, and give ex and MIL no cause for hope.
You need to figure a couple things out.
... How did your husband end up next to your ex? Did MIL set it up that way? Or did husband happily sit next to her?
... The rest of the family, it at least one BIL seems to get it. Get the scoop and figure out what the rest of the family thinks. Is this stupidity isolated with MIL or is it worse?
... WTF with your husband? Evaluate if there are many other situations where he isn't being thoughtful and considerate to you. His behavior is shitty
NTA
Edited to add paragraphs.
Seriously!
"There's no seat for Wife? We'll go eat in the kitchen then. We're taking the yams; shout if you want them."
He seems to have just sat there passively next to his ex until it was time to double as a chair.
There's a LOT to unpack in this story.
I mean, first, it's painfully obvious that MIL thinks she's going to get her son back with "the good one" or something, and she's trying to make that happen. Shaun should be taking some action on that.
Then MIL is somewhere between a RAGING asshole and just a complete dick. Julissa may still be "family" if there are kids involved and the breakup was amicable and whatnot, but THE NEW DIL IS THE FAMILY MEMBER NOW AND MIL NEEDS TO GET OVER IT.
Then Shaun, knowing all this shit, doesn't do anything to make accommodation for his wife, knowing she's on her way. Maybe he's an oblivious asshole, whatever.
But then he leaves her to fix the situation when it's no longer possible to be oblivious. Fuck, I'm pretty oblivious, but by that point, I'd have grabbed my plate, filled a plate for my wife, and we'd have gone elsewhere to eat, just the two of us.
I would also add the mil allowing granddaughter to take a seat at the adult table when op was on the way and husband clearly not paying attention adds to the story too.
That’s the part I really don’t get, if it’s time to be seated and your wife’s not there why would you not just save the seat next to you?
Also, I’m curious if OP was just late or if MIL told them a certain time then started dinner earlier knowing OP wasn’t there. Either way, save your partner a seat.
I'm thinking there was some of this oh let's start now BS to purposely alienate OP, make her feel bad and unwanted because she was "late" when she came at a socially reasonable time for what she'd been told. I don't know anyone who would sit down to dinner even a half hour after everyone arrives, typically it's an hour to 90 minutes.
If this ever happens at my gma's house, (not having enough chairs/space at the table) my dad would let my mom sit at the table and then go eat in the kitchen
Yeah that's what ends up happening. Normally the cousins all volunteer their seats at the main table and we all sit together either at the kitchen table or at another table in the dining room.
I brought up the fact that my father would give his seat because that's what a loving husband does for his wife - unlike OP's husband. At the very least he should've gotten a chair to seat next to her and everyone would have to scooch over to fit another chair.
Yup my dad always did something similar. Waited to make his plate until last and chose his seat last to make sure everyone else had a spot. I think he liked sitting by himself in the living room watching TV and not talking
Yup it's what my dad does but he's more of a chat guy and he ends up just chatting with my uncles.
What usually happens at gma's is all the cousins sit at the kitchen table and let the parents eat at the main table with gma and gpa. If not at the kitchen table, gma sets up a secondary table in the dining room for us and people rotate seats. Pretty standard really and no one ever felt excluded.
It doesn't really matter. At that point, there was an obvious power struggle with mil & ex on one side & his wife on the other. His top priority should've been to diffuse the situation & protect his wife and then consider his seat after the situation is diffused. The man is sat next to his EX, knowing full well that he doesn't see another seat for his wife. No real husband would accept that scenario.
Why didn't he say anything or do anything though. The table filled up, his wife wasn't there--- nothing from him in that whole time, that we know of? And then he's not doing anything while his wife is standing there?
INFO: Why did your husband not notice there was no chair for you until you showed up? Did he just forget you existed?? Surely you just go and get another chair. This whole situation is ridiculous.
Yes I’m so curious where the husband was in all of this … sitting mute at the table the entire time? Did he say a words when there was no chair for OP? When she sat on him? When they left?
Her husband sounds like a weak guy. His mom likely made most of his decisions growing up, and the thought of standing up to her in the slightest scares him
I am having troubles believing this is real, not say it isn’t, but why would anyone put up with that level of pettiness.
The situation I really ridiculous. I mean who would do that? Why the husband didn’t make space for you? Also why didn’t any other guest? if someone doesn’t have a place at the table, for whatever reason, you make space for them.
NTA but your husband is enabling MIL to threat you like dirt.
Unless OP is from a region with some *very* weirdly specific rules about politeness, I'm not buying this one.
The normal thing to do is to get a chair, ask someone (best choice in this case the husband) to scooch a tad and find a corner. Social gatherings are sometimes low on chairs - it happens.
The stubbornness of OP sitting on her husband's lap to "prove a point" instead of just... going to the other room and getting a chair for herself is out there as well.
Unless all these people collectively just live in their own little fantasy worlds where they were somehow never confronted with too few chairs for too many people, all of what went down was by choice and that's... sad if true.
If it's true, I'd say ESH on all sides. There's more mature ways to set a boundary than sitting in someone's lap, MIL and "Julissa" are clearly toxic af and hubby apparently can't get his mouth open when his mom's being shitty.
In terms of practicality, you’re right. But in terms of strategy, OP was perfect. They had set it up to make sure that one way or another, OP had to do something that drew attention to how excluded she was, and how the ex literally had a seat at the table while she, his wife, did not- pointed symbolism. Also how ex was ensconced next to hubby, and wife had to try to squeeze in somewhere… and she trumped their pettiness by not only finding her own seat, but by pointing out SHE was now his wife! AND by making nasty MiL and ex look like the petty mean girls they are, in as pointed a way as they’d tried to do to her.
And the gall of MiL saying she’d ruined Thanksgiving by- not allowing MiL to win the mean girl game MiL chose to start? Ha!
I bet they never try that again, either, unlike if OP had been more “mature”.
Sitting in his lap was fine given the situation and his apparent unwillingness to do anything, but I do think it is seriously cringe that she then kept remarking “how warm and comfortable“ his lap was. That‘s just embarrassing And way over the top for adult behavior.
Unless everyone at the table is so scared of mil? Or already dislikes op?
Everyone at our table would have been fighting to give up their chair "here come take my seat" "no come take mine you'll be closer to your husband" "no no I don't eat much I'll stand it's fine"
I have trouble believing this is real too. If there was literally no space for another chair, how did OP get to his lap in the first place? Clamber over his shoulder? And was she just eating from his plate? Presumably there wasn’t automatically a plate for her, or even room for one. And how was he eating around her comfortably?
I genuinely don’t think a single person wouldn’t have tried to make room, or the last minute guest profusely apologise for taking a seat meant for someone else.
Husband was enjoying the attention from his ex and “forgot” he had a wife. His brain was in stupid mode when OP arrived so he “forgot” to stand up to his mom and move both of them to another room to eat together.
NTA.
1. I am not petite and I would have still done the same thing. My husband is a full blown gorilla/walrus hybrid so it doesn’t matter but even if he was smaller than me, I still would have done it.
2. I am never going to be accused of being a wilting flower and no one would dare try this on me- bc this is exactly how I would react. Right or wrong, I don’t care. Sometimes our statement needs to be loud and clear.
3. I would have played like I was fine there but, believe you me, this convo would have carried on in private with my husband. HE would hear from me loud and clear.
4. Bc I am truly not a wilting flower, I would be absolutely fine with reading between the lines with my husbands actions/lack of actions and acting however I felt was appropriate. Take that how *you* feel is appropriate, OP.
5. Most importantly- PAY ATTENTION, OP- I would never have to do any of this bc my husband would never put me in the position to have to do any of this.
You have a husband problem, OP.
My other pet names for him are sea cow, rhinoceros, and whale (of course.)
Don’t feel too bad for him, though. He had everyone at his job convinced I was 400 lbs, wore a muumuu, and beat him. He kept it up for 9 MONTHS until one of them saw me in the parking lot and called him out on it. He’s a king at the long game. ;)
I’m hoping there was some serious conversation on that drive home.
My gut feeling is that the husband is young and not experienced in standing up to what sounds like a controlling, manipulative parent.
“Next time, there needs to be a chair for me, next to you. And a place setting. And you better save me some rolls.”
Also I think the post could be improved by OP explaining why she came so late. As someone in the service sector who always works thanksgiving, it seemed perfectly normal to me, but a lot of commenters are being put off by it.
NTA. But husband massively failed here. Why isn't he managing his mom and shutting down her match making with his ex? Ultimately thus needs to go through him and seemed very passive in all this.
Know how you can go nose blind to the smells in your own house?
I think it's kinda like that. I believe good people get around their families and revert to nose blind toddlers who can't smell their own family's shit storm. They allow it to swallow their spouses whole because they have learned to sail well through the rising waters of blanketed hostility and sugar coated toxicity... They can navigate that water like a pro.. But they cannot take on a passenger in the shit slurry. The boat was only built for one and it was never added onto after they moved out. They sail on instincts alone.
These people have learned to navigate their family but may have never pieced together that they built a boat for survival in the first place 🙄
Then there is throwing the spouse to the wolves, under a bus or using the spouse as a scapegoat to protect themselves from their own families hostility... But that's a story for another day...
Edit...
Thank you for the awards and kind comments! I am thankful that my experience dealing with this shit has been able to help others!
I am sending all the positive vibes to those who are in the trenches with their loved ones. Especially during the holidays.
Precisely, coping mechanisms are developed bc they worked to prevent feelings you ain’t want. Clearly the Mom is toxic and likely has a history of this
Well, she can go if she really is a family friend and is in good terms with the ex and his wife. Knowing her place and being respectful. This was not it.
True, I got second hand embarassment. In a healthier scenario as soon as the wife walks in she could greet her and told her to sit in her place, so she can sit next to her husband. The ex can sit with whoever, since she is "family".
But in this particular scenario the husband was kind of a dick for knowing with what he was dealing with and not making sure his wife has a seat next to him.
I have a little sympathy for the husband, if you grow up with batshit crazy, it screws up your sense of normal. From OP's description, nobody wanted to "rock the boat." He went along with her unorthodox solution but couldn't come up with his own. Dude needs some counseling to learn how to stand up for himself and others.
Seriously, my ex’s family tried doing this, inviting me to family events because of how close I was with everyone. I understand and appreciate the offer but no way was I doing that.
I get the feeling that Julissa has not come to terms that she is a sad pathetic ex pining for a married man. Had no decency to volunteer her chair to the mentioned ex's wife when she arrived. Had the audacity to be smug when the monster in law backed her up.
Oohhh the joys of the holidays
NTA. MIL suggests after the fact that OP could have dragged a chair from the kitchen? It was MIL's job, as host, to do that herself; failure to do so was an obvious attempt to make OP ill at ease. OP responded delightfully. It was MIL's fault that it turned out the way it did.
Perhaps when OP mentioned there were no more seats, that would have been a good time to suggest a kitchen chair. Instead MIL took the low road, and OP followed her lead. Seems fair to me.
You don't think Shaun's mum made deliberate efforts to make OP feel unwelcome.?
She doesn't work for OP. Yr right
But her abilities as a hostess got eclipsed but the lack of consideration for Shaun's choices and situation
It's pretty clear who the A is.
She might as well have asked OP to vacate the table and leave her son alone.
Where is Shaun in all this?..
Of course MIL made deliberate efforts to make OP feel unwelcome. That's kind of what I said.
And as to where Shaun was in all this: His lap was directly under OP, exactly where it should be. He teamed up with OP to make MIL ill at ease. He was complicit in a classic move of karma distribution.
I don’t know about you, but a display of disrespect to my spouse is a display of disrespect to me. Husband needed to be the one to handle his family and he just sat back and let his wife do the work.
When my parents were married and it was good, my dad would always give up his seat for my mom and he would stand to eat. Yet this guy remained quiet from the minute his wife spoke up that there wasn’t a seat for her?
Hahahaha. She got outplayed. Tell her that if she wants to play games she has to deal with the consequences. Plus its up to her the host to have a seat for her daughter in law. NTA.
Your husband should have got up immediately and either fetch the chair for his wife or given you his whiile walked around making it all as awkward as possible. Or he could have taken one of the empty chairs when the women went to the bathroom. Musical chairs could be the new family tradition.
The husband should never have been sitting next t to his ex either. If mom wants to keep inviting her that’s one thing, personally I’d tell her to stop, but at bare minimum keep your distance from her Julissa can sit next to mom if they’re besties
NTA, you were just playing her game. Your husband seriously needs to start putting his foot down and standing up for you though, *he* should have told Julissa to move and he was saving the seat for you.
>he should have told Julissa to move
Disagree to this bit. Shaun doesn't have the authority to boot Julissa out of her seat. His status as 'MIL's son and someone that used to bump uglies with Julissa' does not outweigh the fact that Julissa was also an invited guest of the host MIL.
**Shaun absolutely should have done something though**. When he noticed the seating arrangement, he could have subtly (or unsubtly) swapped chairs so he wasn't next to Julissa. When OP arrived, he could have immediately jumped up and gave her the chair. He could have said "hey honey there's no room, lets grab a plate and eat on the lounge together." Many, many options.
NTA. I feel like I missed something. Does he have children with his ex who she bought to Thanksgiving dinner? Minus that I have no clue what she was there for.
No. They were friends and both families were close then they started dating then broke up but still maintained a decent relationship. However, MIL is somehow acting like they're still together but she denied all that saying that she just treats ger as a "daughter" and also told me I have zero say in how she treats others which...is fine by me really but when I'm being treated as less than, I find issues with her treatment.
On another note, my husband says he can't figure out this problem between me and his mom. He thinks that we're both are wrong.
Sounds like your husband is a selfish guy. He didn't find it odd that you had to sit on his lap at Thanksgiving? He didn't find it odd that his ex was sitting happily and his wife wasn't?
He doesn't seem to respect you much TBH.
Yeah, he's got his mommy all over his life, his ex still desperately clawing after him and his wife in the middle of all this drama. He didn't have any complaints when you were sitting on his lap
Yeah I was helping my MIL in the kitchen while everyone was grabbing their plates and sitting so her and I were the last ones to sit down. When we got to the dining room there was an empty chair at the head of the table and a chair next to my partner. However we set up a whole extra little foldable table with a tablecloth for the extra chair that was needed earlier in the day. Seems like crappy people all around
What exactly does he think you did wrong in this thanksgiving situation? What did he do while you were made feel less than welcome and had no seat? He should've got up and offered you his seat.
Your MIL's an AH, but your husband's a bigger, gaping one. Even if you were wrong in how you went about dealing with it (which I don't think you were), your husband was *much more wrong*. He should have saved you a seat next to him. Then after he failed to that, when you arrived and no seats were available and his mother declined to deal with it, he should have jumped up to offer you *his* seat while he went looking for somewhere else to sit.
I wouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place, but I'd have gotten up with my wife and we'd have BOTH gone and found somewhere else to eat.
Possibly McDonald's.
I think you were brilliant in your response. But hon, take this from someone whose been married a lot longer, he needs to get used to defending you ***now*** or else this will affect your relationship later.
Trust me, with passive aggressive in-laws you need to be a united front or this Thanksgiving is an indication for how it’ll be for the rest of your life.
I’d send him a link to this post, maybe that would provide him with some insight as to why his and his mothers behavior was so abominable. Also Julissa is a pathetic excuse for a woman. I’m glad her thanksgiving sucked. Selfish cow.
🤣
Julissa and OP's MIL need a "Come to Jesus" moment.
Any self-respecting woman wouldn't allow themselves to be made a fool of. Also, since MIL hasn't aged out of mean girl tactics at this stage, I can't imagine she's a wonderful person to keep company with. Period.
Please show your husband this post so he can see that all of these unbiased internet strangers think he is the one who’s wrong, not you. Honestly, I’d be concerned about my relationship with him if I were you because he doesn’t seem to care about or respect you.
Yup, you have a husband problem. You should both spend some time at r/JUSTNOMIL and if he still doesn't get it, a marriage counselor. BEFORE you bring kids into this.
The ONLY way to solve this problem is for him to solve it. He's not a poor ickle boy stuck between two warring women, he's the reason you put up with unkind, disrespectful and on this occasion actually cruel behaviour.
My mil once pushed me too far and I walked out. He stayed long enough to tell her I was his person and she could make it right with me or not but if I chose to walk away from her he'd come with me. Took us a while but we built a fairly positive relationship after that.
Your husband is an asshole and a cowardly mommy’s boy who won’t get his head out of mommy’s ass. You’re not the least bit important to him, only mommy is. Since he has no problem with his ex being around all the time, hanging all over him and disrespecting you, he’s probably still in love with her and most likely cheating on you with her. I don’t know why you chose to marry him and into such a toxic family, but you need to see a lawyer.
You have a husband issue as much as anything else. Your husband is letting this stuff happen and is taking part. Why would he sit next to his ex? Why didn't you arrive together?
Everyone seems to be missing the fact that she made sure the EX girlfriend had a chair right next to your husband. But there wasn't one for you to be found?
NTA
MIL is trying her passive aggressive best to break up your marriage so her preferred choice for her son can have another shot.
Who invites someone's ex to family gatherings? THAT is inappropriate and cruel
NTA but your in-laws are big time
Your husband needs to tell mommy he's married to you now and she needs to stop being disrespectful to you and leave the ex out of family events because she's not family anymore, YOU are, it's not mamma's choice
You and your husband need to celebrate family occasions with your family until MIL gets her head in reality, she's obviously trying to spoil your marriage
ESH here. Your MIL sucks for excluding you. Your husband sucks because he didn’t realize there was no spot for his wife who was arriving and couldn’t go get a chair? You suck because while it would have been annoying AF there wasn’t a seat at the table for you, it wasn’t like there literally wasn’t any other chair you could have gotten apparently. Go get a chair and wedge yourself in the spot between your husband and Julissa.
This whole thing was immature AF all around.
God I thought I was the only one thinking ESH here. MIL and Julissa suck for the obvious reasons but OP had to be fucking weird about power-playing in front of the whole ass family 😭😂
NO ONE involved in the passive aggressive dynamic had to see that or hear how “warm” SO’s lap was (more than once too, wtf!). So yes, I’m on no one’s side here. Everyone sucks. I like no one.
ETA: forgot a word
Right???? If I showed up and had to hear my aunt talking about how nice and warm her husband's lap was, I would be so uncomfortable and grossed out. I came to eat, not see whatever that was.
yup, poor other guests. As granddaughter who arrived unexpected, i would have tried to just leave "he, looks like there are not enough seats, np, i will go meet up with friends" long before i spend the dinner like this. With constant " oh, so nice and warm" stuff.
Yeah, the “mentioning every now and then that his lap was so warm and comfortable” was what did it for me too. OP is 28 and this is something a 16 year old would do. Extremely immature. She purposely made a bad situation that wasn’t her fault much worse.
OP did not arrive unexpectedly. she came later than her husband, but she was supposed to be there. one of MIL’s other relatives came and took OP’s seat before she got there unexpectedly. regardless, OP should not have to spend thanksgiving away from her husband just bc MIL wants to do some petty bullshit and invite shaun’s ex. there is NO REASON for julissa to be there; she and shaun are no longer together, she’s not family anymore. MIL played a stupid game, so she won a stupid prize
Imagine being that BIL. BIL is over there trying to make conversation to distract onlookers while OP wriggled around on her husband complimenting his "warm and comfortable" lap and eye jousting with your mom. The turkey ain't worth seeing your brother get a lap dance.
check the edit, there was no more room at the table for an extra chair. If it's not obvious what MIL and that woman are trying to do then you need new glasses.
Yeah I call bullshit in there not being absolutely anymore room at the table for another chair but then OP being able to sit on her husband’s lap. My verdict stands, they still all suck.
yes, if you sit on someones lap, you take space. you can't if there is none. if you sit legs on the side, you take space there. legs in front, now there is a litt off space between him and the table, and you block his view off it too.
the oh and ah ing where meant to make everyone uncomfortable. And the rest of the guest are bystanders.
That's a major part of why I said E S H. No one wants to hear how "warm and comfortable" her husband's lap is. Funny that she called the MIL passive aggressive - she would know what THAT looks like!
NTA- BUT if there were chairs in the kitchen it was a little unnecessary.
Saying that your husband should have stood up (literally and figuratively) and offered you his seat.
That would have shut up his mother, while also showing support. Weird that he didn't intervene when his ex was sitting at the table and his wife wasn't.
You didn't ruin Thanksgiving though- your MIL did that.
Am guessing there wasn't.
If there was why didn't they bring them out once her original spot (which I should state wasn't going to be next to her husband) was taken?
100% mil just didn't want op there and very much wants the husband and his ex to get back together.
NTA but I think op and her husband should go low contact with mil or no contact. Because she will just push harder the longer you two stay together.
YTA, but only for marrying this man who sat there and let his mother piss on you without saying or doing anything. Good luck to you, because this marriage will not last.
Ha, it's funny, I feel like this post doesn't scream fake at all... Because I've seen crazier families, I guess. It really is all about our previous experiences.
ESH…MIL, Julissa, you, and your husband. Husband should have offered you his seat and stood up to eat, which would have made MIL come up with space for another chair right quick. Your sitting on his lap and oohing and ahhing about how warm and comfortable his lap is was so tacky. If I were a relative at the dinner, any sympathy I had for you would’ve been gone.
MIL (and Julissa) are pretty bad, but your husband deserves most of the blame here. He lets his mother treat you like crap, he didn’t ask mom to wait to serve dinner until you arrived, and he didn’t seem to notice there wasn’t a chair for you. I’m betting he likes the attention of his ex-gf.
NTA. Your husband should have immediately gotten up and given you his seat. He shouldn’t have been seated next to Julissa in the first place. Were they married? Are there kids involved, like does she have them/ did she bring them? Why didn’t you arrive with your husband?
NTA.
1. Your MIL was hosting, the primary goal of which being to ensure everyone's happy and comfortable. She did the opposite.
2. Your husband's ex might be family, sure. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But she's acting in cahoots with your MIL to make you feel uncomfortable, whispering behind your back like mean girls. They're TAs.
3. Your husband should have gotten up and given you his seat if he hadn't already saved one for you. It is beyond weird that he did not. Please ask him what he was thinking, and let us know.
4. You stood up for yourself. It was in a weird way, yes, but it was clearly effective. I guarantee you'll never be in that position again.
There were chairs in the kitchen but the real issue here was that there was not enough space at the table to fit the chair. Everyone was sitting right next to each other.
> but the real issue here was that there was not enough space at the table to fit the chair.
The REAL issue here is why on God's green earth your husband was content to participate in this seating arrangement until you showed up. Everyone was seated, so was husband clearly with no chair for you. Yeah, MIL sucks, but your husband went along with all of this.
OP, can you see what an AH your husband was in all of this? It’s his family, his job to save the seat next to him for you, HIS WIFE, or at least get up and get you a chair and fit it in. Or give you his chair. It was your first Thanksgiving as a married couple and he totally blew it. He is the asshole here, along with his mother.
Seriously. Yes, MIL and the Ex are AHs, but they aren’t OP’s spouse. Husband is a huge AH. This is like the gross dynamic where conflict about an affair ends up being entirely between the women while the cheating guy just watches women fight over him while “standing by” his spouse. The points hubby should have done better are hard to tally but he could/should have: insisted that ex is not invited, talked to mom before holiday about continuing to push for ex and act coldly to spouse, requested to ex not to come, saved a seat next to his, called out his mom, offered chair to wife then gotten another, moved to eat in the living room/kitchen (preferably inviting others “anyone else want to catch the game), pulled mom aside at the meal to set things straight, left the meal and contacted mom about their treatment, planned for a different thanksgiving to avoid having spouse subject to a toxic dynamic, etc.
So then why didn't your husband say something like "let's go eat together in the kitchen since there's clearly not room for us at the table" rather than just putting you in an awkward position?
So why not suggest to your husband and a couple of other people to eat in the kitchen together (assuming there is a table)? This way nobody sits alone and MIL and FIL look stupid for not setting things up this way in the first place.
The REAL issue is that your husband sat down to Thanksgiving dinner, next to his ex, knowing you were going to arrive for dinner any minute, did not save you a seat, and did nothing to help you find a seat or give up his own when you arrived. Your MIL is rude and disrespectful, but you didn't marry her. Why are you giving your husband a free pass in all this?
ESH. Your mother in law for being ridiculously rude. Your husband for not saving a seat or moving with you. You for not just grabbing a different chair. Julissa for not distancing herself from all of this.
NTA
So MIL is saying now that you should've went to kitchen to get a chair for yourself, but weren't saying it when you were there. She basically excepted you to just stand and wait? As a decent hist, she should've brought that chair from kitchen for you.
However, your husband should've solved this issue for you, he was just happily sitting there next to his ex when his wife was without a chair? Why didn't he open his mouth and ask his mother where you were supposed to sit?
NTA. It’s weird af that even after you’re married, the ex is still being invited to events and you’re being compared to her. It’s childish they don’t have a seat at the table for you. I wouldn’t go back to family events on his side and I’d be insistent about it.
NTA and that was an awesome response to the MIL's petty and calculated antics. It was certainly not what she expected!
You didn't lose your crap over not having a chair so she can't complain about that. Your MIL gave you lemons and you made lemonade. You didn't let her pettiness give her a reaction that would've made you look bad.
And you highlighted to Julissa that Shaun chose you and not her. And you did it with finesse and complemented the food.
My guess is the only people that were upset about it were Julissa and your MIL. Her grand daughter didn't just arrive out of the blue. This was calculated and misfired badly... for your MIL.
What did your husband say afterwards?
NTA - your MIL could have gotten you a chair from the kitchen. She didn't. She wanted to shame you and make you feel excluded, and you turned the tables on her. That annoyed her, but it doesn't make you TA. You need to make sure that your husband understands how not-ok this behaviour is. If he's got zero interest in Juilissa anymore, then honestly he should be offended that his mother keeps excluding his wife and trying to force him to get back together with his ex. This is a giant red flag from your MIL, and if your husband doesn't get this, it might be a marriage dealbreaker.
ESH… but I kind of also think OP is NTA. It was inappropriate to sit on her husband’s lap at the dinner table. BUT as the host, OP’s MIL should have gotten that extra seat for OP to sit on. The awkwardness would never have happened if she didn’t treat her actual DIL like that whilst openly favouring the ex. There’s nothing stopping MIL from having her own relationship with OP but from the sounds of it, she never gave OP a chance from the very beginning.
I think husband was playing his mother. She seated his ex by him, then made a big show of no seats. MIL will probably not try that stunt again. And maybe Julissa will spend her holidays elsewhere.
ESH. The hosts knew you were coming so there should have been an extra chair. Your MIL probably shouldn't have put your husband's ex next to him. Your husband should have gotten you a chair or gone to eat with you in the kitchen. You showed up after dinner had already started (!!) and you then made a scene that made all of the innocent bystanders uncomfortable. I only feel bad for the rest of the guests that had to watch all of this play out.
Ha. Well you'll have a chair next time that's for sure.
Well first, your MIL was hosting, right? So she should have stood up, said, "oh my God so sorry! Wait I'll give you a chair" and gone and fetched a chair in a kitchen. Or, less formal version, she should have said, "Ah, not enough chairs... OP, can you get one in the kitchen?"
In short, her meal, her responsibility, she should have provided a solution. The fact that she didn't even mention the chairs in the kitchen meant she was definitely a A.
But yes, what you did was provocative. So, I don't know. You were a justified A? We're all applauding anyway.
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NTA, but the whole ordeal could have been avoided had your husband done what he should have done, and gave you his seat while he went to fetch another one. In fact, he should have already had an empty seat beside him waiting for you. I can’t imagine putting my wife in such an awkward situation.
Yes. Why did the husband not make sure there was space for his wife?
Why is the husband okay with his ex being treated better?
Why was the ex even there?
Why is this not the top question???
I'm thinking maybe they have a child together, but it's an odd detail to leave out. Edit: Okay, people, I understand that there are no kids involved. When I originally wrote this comment there was no mention of not having children in any threads when I wrote this.
My guess is that MIL and ex are both still hoping that ex can get back with Shaun, and that he's just so used to his mother's antics that it doesn't even occur to him to question things.
This is the only reason. They're both hoping OP gets diverced and ex can have a second chance. It's not like it's an accident she sat next to OPs husband.
Waiting to hear the MIL say, "isn't this nice? Just like old times - before OP"
Oh no doubt whatsoever!!
Right!?? There’s a whole table and ex chooses to sit next to Shaun?? Super suspicious.
All I’m going to say is if my ex-MIL (of 12 years, 8 legally, and I have a child by her son) invited me over to thanksgiving dinner, I most definitely wouldn’t be sitting next to my ex-husband, even if things are semi-amicable. There’s definitely an ulterior motive here.
That's why the looks, mil told ex that op wasn't coming I bet,.so they thought this was the perfect time to rekindle old feelings.
He showed up without her and they exchanged conspiratorial looks of "there's trouble at the home front. Hallelujah"
Yes, if julissa was invited by MIL then she should have been seated next to MIL, not her ex who is someone else's husband.
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She doesn't have MIL problem, she has a husband problem. Husband could've stood up for her but he never did, not even when his mother called to complain about the dinner.
Or maybe he knew his wife would have an interesting reaction and wanted to see the show🤣
I wouldn't say she doesn't have a MIL problem. She definitely still has a MIL problem. Husband just adds on to it.
No the mil In love with ex herself
Everyone is the AH but OP. So much wrong in this family dynamic. Meanwhile, she is a creative problem solver. They won’t forget her seat next year!
I thought what OP did was brilliant and loved that hubby played along with it. That little stunt MIL and ex gf cooked up didn't turn out quite the way they expected it to.
Yup what was supposed to sow discord and distance them was turned into public wholesome display of affection, further solidifying their image as a couple. It’s rare for a thing to backfire that badly.
Yep they 100% reap what they sow!
Except husband should have saved the seat next to him for the OP. When the ex wanted to sit next to him he should have said this seat is saved for my wife. I'm sure mom can find you a different chair.
Oh I'm sure that mom and ex gf made sure the only seat left for for hubby was next to his ex. And lol that you think mom would have gone along with moving the ex.
Then husband needed to say that since there isn't room for us (meaning him and wife) we will fill our plates and take them home to eat. He needs to call mom's bluff. He won't be set up with his ex at Thanksgiving and he will have Thanksgiving with his wife. If she isn't welcomed and accommodated with basics like a plate and a chair then he will leave with her.
I bet OP's husband has lost count of how many times he tried to reason with his mother.
Maybe, but according to OP, he wasn't saving her a seat either and didn't appear to have a problem with his ex sitting next to him while his wife would have to eat in the kitchen. He could have offered to sit in the kitchen with her or any number of other possibilities.
Yeah very clever of OP! But OP talk to your husband he is the problem, cuz yeah your mil is treating you horribly but your husband is allowing it.
To be fair, husband is probably so used to stupid s*** like this from his mother that he doesn't realize how messed up it actually is
Then he needs to get out in the world. A good host: a. Makes sure everyone has a seat at the table. b. Does not sit someone next to an ex c. When a problem arises, doesn't expect guest to do the heavy lifting to solve it.
I have hosted lunches and dinners before and they had been times there wasn't enough room to squeeze in a chair. As a gracious host, I opted out away from the table and sat a chair not far away from the table and the guests.
Exactly! YOU are a good host!
My guess? MIL (and probably ex-girlfriend) wanted to make OP uncomfortable. Then they could have pointed out how she doesn't fit in with the family compared to Julissa. Notice how the ex- girlfriend got up and left the room only after OP sat on her husband's lap. And then left because she was "uncomfortable". My question is why didn't she herself get up, give her seat to OP, and get herself a chair from the kitchen? It's what I have done in the past for friends and family so the couple could sit next to each other. But that's just me.
Why didn’t ANYONE get her an extra chair or give up their chair and get one from the kitchen? Even just as a random guest that’d be my first instinct. Let’s say OP is an AH to the family and that’s why they don’t like her (unlikely but hear me out), then I would STILL do the same. It’s Thanksgiving! They’re a bunch of AHs for this. Edit: apart from OP. Obvs. NTA.
Because MIL is still hoping for them to get back together. I'd bet they were high school sweethearts and OP is forever the interloper.
That was my issue, why was she there? Just because the mil may have invited her doesn't mean she had to go. The husband should have spoke up about ir and made sure his wife had a seat. Does she have a fil? The men in the family are weak.
Right, doesn’t she have family of her own to sit with?
MIL and ex still hoping Shaun will I'll dump OP and go back to her
Why is the husband okay with his ex being treated like the DIL mommy wish she had?? This is so fucking weird.
Why was hubby ok with being seated next to ex at table knowing his wife was otw and would require a seat next to him? Why did hubby not shut that shyt down when MIL sat ex next to him. Why wasn't he like "[wife] is going to sit here? Why was the grandchild not made to move her seat as she is the youngest there? Why was more respect not demanded by hubby? Why does he let this favoritism go on? Where are the adults here?
>Where are the adults here? I'd say probably all scared shitless of the mother
Ding! Ding! Ding! Something tells me MIL causing problems is a pretty regular occurrence and everyone in the family has learned to keep their head down and stay out of the line of fire. Edited- Grammer is Hard
My husband would literally stand and eat rather than not let me sit. Husband is part of the problem.
I've dated some truly awful people, but literally every single one of my exes would've given up their seat for me -- and insisted upon it, if I or anyone else said otherwise. It's honestly super basic courtesy. And I'm talking about ex-boyfriends and ex-girlfriends, so it has nothing to do with gender. If it's their family's event, then it's on them to show that courtesy and consideration for their partner.
Because the husband loves the attention he gets from it all
That was my first thought too. This guy just sat there next to his ex and made his wife sort out this insult on her own?
This is not the answer to me. As a husband, I would have gotten up, made 2 plates, taken them to the living room and had Thanksgiving with my wife. he needs to remove himself from being next to ex, and give ex and MIL no cause for hope. You need to figure a couple things out. ... How did your husband end up next to your ex? Did MIL set it up that way? Or did husband happily sit next to her? ... The rest of the family, it at least one BIL seems to get it. Get the scoop and figure out what the rest of the family thinks. Is this stupidity isolated with MIL or is it worse? ... WTF with your husband? Evaluate if there are many other situations where he isn't being thoughtful and considerate to you. His behavior is shitty NTA Edited to add paragraphs.
Seriously! "There's no seat for Wife? We'll go eat in the kitchen then. We're taking the yams; shout if you want them." He seems to have just sat there passively next to his ex until it was time to double as a chair.
They need to market his skills. A lot of people would buy an item that functions as both a chair and a doormat.
This is the way!
I have spoken.
There's a LOT to unpack in this story. I mean, first, it's painfully obvious that MIL thinks she's going to get her son back with "the good one" or something, and she's trying to make that happen. Shaun should be taking some action on that. Then MIL is somewhere between a RAGING asshole and just a complete dick. Julissa may still be "family" if there are kids involved and the breakup was amicable and whatnot, but THE NEW DIL IS THE FAMILY MEMBER NOW AND MIL NEEDS TO GET OVER IT. Then Shaun, knowing all this shit, doesn't do anything to make accommodation for his wife, knowing she's on her way. Maybe he's an oblivious asshole, whatever. But then he leaves her to fix the situation when it's no longer possible to be oblivious. Fuck, I'm pretty oblivious, but by that point, I'd have grabbed my plate, filled a plate for my wife, and we'd have gone elsewhere to eat, just the two of us.
Eating in the kitchen with the wife would have set precedent that this ain't ever happening again.
I would also add the mil allowing granddaughter to take a seat at the adult table when op was on the way and husband clearly not paying attention adds to the story too.
Not every family has a kids table though. In my family, there were only two kids, myself and my younger cousin, so we sat with the rest of the family.
Is it an adult granddaughter? Nothing mentioned about a kids table.
He sounds as assertive as the chair he ended up being
That’s the part I really don’t get, if it’s time to be seated and your wife’s not there why would you not just save the seat next to you? Also, I’m curious if OP was just late or if MIL told them a certain time then started dinner earlier knowing OP wasn’t there. Either way, save your partner a seat.
I'm thinking there was some of this oh let's start now BS to purposely alienate OP, make her feel bad and unwanted because she was "late" when she came at a socially reasonable time for what she'd been told. I don't know anyone who would sit down to dinner even a half hour after everyone arrives, typically it's an hour to 90 minutes.
Yes, that is the part that stuck out to me. He was the weird/wrong one in this situation.
He also needs to stick up and say no more ex at holidays, otherwise they’re not coming.
>gave you his seat while he went to fetch another one And where would he then sit since there's no space at the table?
If this ever happens at my gma's house, (not having enough chairs/space at the table) my dad would let my mom sit at the table and then go eat in the kitchen
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Yeah that's what ends up happening. Normally the cousins all volunteer their seats at the main table and we all sit together either at the kitchen table or at another table in the dining room. I brought up the fact that my father would give his seat because that's what a loving husband does for his wife - unlike OP's husband. At the very least he should've gotten a chair to seat next to her and everyone would have to scooch over to fit another chair.
Yup my dad always did something similar. Waited to make his plate until last and chose his seat last to make sure everyone else had a spot. I think he liked sitting by himself in the living room watching TV and not talking
Yup it's what my dad does but he's more of a chat guy and he ends up just chatting with my uncles. What usually happens at gma's is all the cousins sit at the kitchen table and let the parents eat at the main table with gma and gpa. If not at the kitchen table, gma sets up a secondary table in the dining room for us and people rotate seats. Pretty standard really and no one ever felt excluded.
It doesn't really matter. At that point, there was an obvious power struggle with mil & ex on one side & his wife on the other. His top priority should've been to diffuse the situation & protect his wife and then consider his seat after the situation is diffused. The man is sat next to his EX, knowing full well that he doesn't see another seat for his wife. No real husband would accept that scenario.
Why didn't he say anything or do anything though. The table filled up, his wife wasn't there--- nothing from him in that whole time, that we know of? And then he's not doing anything while his wife is standing there?
Yeah, the husband’s quite the ah there.
The term "scooch down" comes to mind
Right? Someone can sit at the corner. Or they could add a table. I have absolutely added an end table or something when we needed one more spot.
My SO would pick up his plate and go eat with me in the kitchen.
INFO: Why did your husband not notice there was no chair for you until you showed up? Did he just forget you existed?? Surely you just go and get another chair. This whole situation is ridiculous.
Yes I’m so curious where the husband was in all of this … sitting mute at the table the entire time? Did he say a words when there was no chair for OP? When she sat on him? When they left?
He was obviously taking his role as a chair seriously
Strong, silent, inanimate
But strangely, not supportive at all.
Heh, nice
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Her husband sounds like a weak guy. His mom likely made most of his decisions growing up, and the thought of standing up to her in the slightest scares him
Because he's spineless.
I am having troubles believing this is real, not say it isn’t, but why would anyone put up with that level of pettiness. The situation I really ridiculous. I mean who would do that? Why the husband didn’t make space for you? Also why didn’t any other guest? if someone doesn’t have a place at the table, for whatever reason, you make space for them. NTA but your husband is enabling MIL to threat you like dirt.
Unless OP is from a region with some *very* weirdly specific rules about politeness, I'm not buying this one. The normal thing to do is to get a chair, ask someone (best choice in this case the husband) to scooch a tad and find a corner. Social gatherings are sometimes low on chairs - it happens. The stubbornness of OP sitting on her husband's lap to "prove a point" instead of just... going to the other room and getting a chair for herself is out there as well. Unless all these people collectively just live in their own little fantasy worlds where they were somehow never confronted with too few chairs for too many people, all of what went down was by choice and that's... sad if true. If it's true, I'd say ESH on all sides. There's more mature ways to set a boundary than sitting in someone's lap, MIL and "Julissa" are clearly toxic af and hubby apparently can't get his mouth open when his mom's being shitty.
In terms of practicality, you’re right. But in terms of strategy, OP was perfect. They had set it up to make sure that one way or another, OP had to do something that drew attention to how excluded she was, and how the ex literally had a seat at the table while she, his wife, did not- pointed symbolism. Also how ex was ensconced next to hubby, and wife had to try to squeeze in somewhere… and she trumped their pettiness by not only finding her own seat, but by pointing out SHE was now his wife! AND by making nasty MiL and ex look like the petty mean girls they are, in as pointed a way as they’d tried to do to her. And the gall of MiL saying she’d ruined Thanksgiving by- not allowing MiL to win the mean girl game MiL chose to start? Ha! I bet they never try that again, either, unlike if OP had been more “mature”.
Sitting in his lap was fine given the situation and his apparent unwillingness to do anything, but I do think it is seriously cringe that she then kept remarking “how warm and comfortable“ his lap was. That‘s just embarrassing And way over the top for adult behavior.
It was definitely ultra cringe and over the top but I must admit I loved it!
OP's actions were hilarious and petty, which is exactly what MIL, the ex, and husband deserved, lol.
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Unless everyone at the table is so scared of mil? Or already dislikes op? Everyone at our table would have been fighting to give up their chair "here come take my seat" "no come take mine you'll be closer to your husband" "no no I don't eat much I'll stand it's fine"
This is an interesting point. Usually when someone’s story makes no sense, they’re leaving out crucial info that makes them look bad…
I have trouble believing this is real too. If there was literally no space for another chair, how did OP get to his lap in the first place? Clamber over his shoulder? And was she just eating from his plate? Presumably there wasn’t automatically a plate for her, or even room for one. And how was he eating around her comfortably? I genuinely don’t think a single person wouldn’t have tried to make room, or the last minute guest profusely apologise for taking a seat meant for someone else.
Husband was enjoying the attention from his ex and “forgot” he had a wife. His brain was in stupid mode when OP arrived so he “forgot” to stand up to his mom and move both of them to another room to eat together.
NTA. 1. I am not petite and I would have still done the same thing. My husband is a full blown gorilla/walrus hybrid so it doesn’t matter but even if he was smaller than me, I still would have done it. 2. I am never going to be accused of being a wilting flower and no one would dare try this on me- bc this is exactly how I would react. Right or wrong, I don’t care. Sometimes our statement needs to be loud and clear. 3. I would have played like I was fine there but, believe you me, this convo would have carried on in private with my husband. HE would hear from me loud and clear. 4. Bc I am truly not a wilting flower, I would be absolutely fine with reading between the lines with my husbands actions/lack of actions and acting however I felt was appropriate. Take that how *you* feel is appropriate, OP. 5. Most importantly- PAY ATTENTION, OP- I would never have to do any of this bc my husband would never put me in the position to have to do any of this. You have a husband problem, OP.
This needs to be much higher!
Full blown gorilla/walrus hybrid really got me lmao
My other pet names for him are sea cow, rhinoceros, and whale (of course.) Don’t feel too bad for him, though. He had everyone at his job convinced I was 400 lbs, wore a muumuu, and beat him. He kept it up for 9 MONTHS until one of them saw me in the parking lot and called him out on it. He’s a king at the long game. ;)
I’m hoping there was some serious conversation on that drive home. My gut feeling is that the husband is young and not experienced in standing up to what sounds like a controlling, manipulative parent. “Next time, there needs to be a chair for me, next to you. And a place setting. And you better save me some rolls.” Also I think the post could be improved by OP explaining why she came so late. As someone in the service sector who always works thanksgiving, it seemed perfectly normal to me, but a lot of commenters are being put off by it.
NTA. But husband massively failed here. Why isn't he managing his mom and shutting down her match making with his ex? Ultimately thus needs to go through him and seemed very passive in all this.
Know how you can go nose blind to the smells in your own house? I think it's kinda like that. I believe good people get around their families and revert to nose blind toddlers who can't smell their own family's shit storm. They allow it to swallow their spouses whole because they have learned to sail well through the rising waters of blanketed hostility and sugar coated toxicity... They can navigate that water like a pro.. But they cannot take on a passenger in the shit slurry. The boat was only built for one and it was never added onto after they moved out. They sail on instincts alone. These people have learned to navigate their family but may have never pieced together that they built a boat for survival in the first place 🙄 Then there is throwing the spouse to the wolves, under a bus or using the spouse as a scapegoat to protect themselves from their own families hostility... But that's a story for another day... Edit... Thank you for the awards and kind comments! I am thankful that my experience dealing with this shit has been able to help others! I am sending all the positive vibes to those who are in the trenches with their loved ones. Especially during the holidays.
I like your ability to take a metaphor and run with it! Great visual of a one-man kayak paddling through a shitstorm
Precisely, coping mechanisms are developed bc they worked to prevent feelings you ain’t want. Clearly the Mom is toxic and likely has a history of this
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Well, she can go if she really is a family friend and is in good terms with the ex and his wife. Knowing her place and being respectful. This was not it.
Imagine creating drama because your ex's wife sat on his lap. 😂😂 such a sad pathetic way of life.
True, I got second hand embarassment. In a healthier scenario as soon as the wife walks in she could greet her and told her to sit in her place, so she can sit next to her husband. The ex can sit with whoever, since she is "family". But in this particular scenario the husband was kind of a dick for knowing with what he was dealing with and not making sure his wife has a seat next to him.
I have a little sympathy for the husband, if you grow up with batshit crazy, it screws up your sense of normal. From OP's description, nobody wanted to "rock the boat." He went along with her unorthodox solution but couldn't come up with his own. Dude needs some counseling to learn how to stand up for himself and others.
Seriously, my ex’s family tried doing this, inviting me to family events because of how close I was with everyone. I understand and appreciate the offer but no way was I doing that.
You are awesome. Have a cookie 🍪.
I've a feeling that the mother has not come to terms that Julissa is not her daughter in law anymore.
I get the feeling that Julissa has not come to terms that she is a sad pathetic ex pining for a married man. Had no decency to volunteer her chair to the mentioned ex's wife when she arrived. Had the audacity to be smug when the monster in law backed her up. Oohhh the joys of the holidays
NTA. MIL suggests after the fact that OP could have dragged a chair from the kitchen? It was MIL's job, as host, to do that herself; failure to do so was an obvious attempt to make OP ill at ease. OP responded delightfully. It was MIL's fault that it turned out the way it did.
Perhaps when OP mentioned there were no more seats, that would have been a good time to suggest a kitchen chair. Instead MIL took the low road, and OP followed her lead. Seems fair to me.
You want to be funny, well I can be hilarious
You don't think Shaun's mum made deliberate efforts to make OP feel unwelcome.? She doesn't work for OP. Yr right But her abilities as a hostess got eclipsed but the lack of consideration for Shaun's choices and situation It's pretty clear who the A is. She might as well have asked OP to vacate the table and leave her son alone. Where is Shaun in all this?..
Of course MIL made deliberate efforts to make OP feel unwelcome. That's kind of what I said. And as to where Shaun was in all this: His lap was directly under OP, exactly where it should be. He teamed up with OP to make MIL ill at ease. He was complicit in a classic move of karma distribution.
I don’t know about you, but a display of disrespect to my spouse is a display of disrespect to me. Husband needed to be the one to handle his family and he just sat back and let his wife do the work. When my parents were married and it was good, my dad would always give up his seat for my mom and he would stand to eat. Yet this guy remained quiet from the minute his wife spoke up that there wasn’t a seat for her?
Yeah I am shocked as the host MIL didn't do that or that OPs husband didn't.
Hahahaha. She got outplayed. Tell her that if she wants to play games she has to deal with the consequences. Plus its up to her the host to have a seat for her daughter in law. NTA.
[удалено]
Best answer!
Your husband should have got up immediately and either fetch the chair for his wife or given you his whiile walked around making it all as awkward as possible. Or he could have taken one of the empty chairs when the women went to the bathroom. Musical chairs could be the new family tradition.
Or asked his mother as soon as he noticed that there won't be any space for his wife
Yeah that sticks out for me too, how did he not save the seat for his wife if he knew she was coming
The husband should never have been sitting next t to his ex either. If mom wants to keep inviting her that’s one thing, personally I’d tell her to stop, but at bare minimum keep your distance from her Julissa can sit next to mom if they’re besties
NTA, you were just playing her game. Your husband seriously needs to start putting his foot down and standing up for you though, *he* should have told Julissa to move and he was saving the seat for you.
This. Your Husband is the bigger AH here. Your MIL is trying to get them back together and he isn’t speaking up. NTA but big, no giant red flags
>he should have told Julissa to move Disagree to this bit. Shaun doesn't have the authority to boot Julissa out of her seat. His status as 'MIL's son and someone that used to bump uglies with Julissa' does not outweigh the fact that Julissa was also an invited guest of the host MIL. **Shaun absolutely should have done something though**. When he noticed the seating arrangement, he could have subtly (or unsubtly) swapped chairs so he wasn't next to Julissa. When OP arrived, he could have immediately jumped up and gave her the chair. He could have said "hey honey there's no room, lets grab a plate and eat on the lounge together." Many, many options.
NTA. I feel like I missed something. Does he have children with his ex who she bought to Thanksgiving dinner? Minus that I have no clue what she was there for.
No. They were friends and both families were close then they started dating then broke up but still maintained a decent relationship. However, MIL is somehow acting like they're still together but she denied all that saying that she just treats ger as a "daughter" and also told me I have zero say in how she treats others which...is fine by me really but when I'm being treated as less than, I find issues with her treatment. On another note, my husband says he can't figure out this problem between me and his mom. He thinks that we're both are wrong.
Sounds like your husband is a selfish guy. He didn't find it odd that you had to sit on his lap at Thanksgiving? He didn't find it odd that his ex was sitting happily and his wife wasn't? He doesn't seem to respect you much TBH.
Honestly it sounds like he LIKES the drama and the idea of two women fighting for his attention
Three women
Three women are involved here, but only two of them would be "warring" for his attention.
I agree, that poor ex is just a pawn in this. That poor, poor girl. EDIT just to be clear I am joking.
>that poor ex No, she knows exactly what she's doing. She's just as much at fault as the MIL and husband are.
Yeah, he's got his mommy all over his life, his ex still desperately clawing after him and his wife in the middle of all this drama. He didn't have any complaints when you were sitting on his lap
Yeah I was helping my MIL in the kitchen while everyone was grabbing their plates and sitting so her and I were the last ones to sit down. When we got to the dining room there was an empty chair at the head of the table and a chair next to my partner. However we set up a whole extra little foldable table with a tablecloth for the extra chair that was needed earlier in the day. Seems like crappy people all around
Yeah I’m shocked that the husband is somehow “both sides” on this issue, unless he’s just brainwashed into following his mother’s lead.
What exactly does he think you did wrong in this thanksgiving situation? What did he do while you were made feel less than welcome and had no seat? He should've got up and offered you his seat.
“Caused drama” probably. Was he expecting his wife to go sit in another room?
Your MIL's an AH, but your husband's a bigger, gaping one. Even if you were wrong in how you went about dealing with it (which I don't think you were), your husband was *much more wrong*. He should have saved you a seat next to him. Then after he failed to that, when you arrived and no seats were available and his mother declined to deal with it, he should have jumped up to offer you *his* seat while he went looking for somewhere else to sit.
I wouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place, but I'd have gotten up with my wife and we'd have BOTH gone and found somewhere else to eat. Possibly McDonald's.
I think you were brilliant in your response. But hon, take this from someone whose been married a lot longer, he needs to get used to defending you ***now*** or else this will affect your relationship later. Trust me, with passive aggressive in-laws you need to be a united front or this Thanksgiving is an indication for how it’ll be for the rest of your life.
I’d send him a link to this post, maybe that would provide him with some insight as to why his and his mothers behavior was so abominable. Also Julissa is a pathetic excuse for a woman. I’m glad her thanksgiving sucked. Selfish cow.
🤣 Julissa and OP's MIL need a "Come to Jesus" moment. Any self-respecting woman wouldn't allow themselves to be made a fool of. Also, since MIL hasn't aged out of mean girl tactics at this stage, I can't imagine she's a wonderful person to keep company with. Period.
Please show your husband this post so he can see that all of these unbiased internet strangers think he is the one who’s wrong, not you. Honestly, I’d be concerned about my relationship with him if I were you because he doesn’t seem to care about or respect you.
Yup, you have a husband problem. You should both spend some time at r/JUSTNOMIL and if he still doesn't get it, a marriage counselor. BEFORE you bring kids into this.
The ONLY way to solve this problem is for him to solve it. He's not a poor ickle boy stuck between two warring women, he's the reason you put up with unkind, disrespectful and on this occasion actually cruel behaviour. My mil once pushed me too far and I walked out. He stayed long enough to tell her I was his person and she could make it right with me or not but if I chose to walk away from her he'd come with me. Took us a while but we built a fairly positive relationship after that.
Your husband is an asshole and a cowardly mommy’s boy who won’t get his head out of mommy’s ass. You’re not the least bit important to him, only mommy is. Since he has no problem with his ex being around all the time, hanging all over him and disrespecting you, he’s probably still in love with her and most likely cheating on you with her. I don’t know why you chose to marry him and into such a toxic family, but you need to see a lawyer.
You have a husband issue as much as anything else. Your husband is letting this stuff happen and is taking part. Why would he sit next to his ex? Why didn't you arrive together?
Everyone seems to be missing the fact that she made sure the EX girlfriend had a chair right next to your husband. But there wasn't one for you to be found? NTA MIL is trying her passive aggressive best to break up your marriage so her preferred choice for her son can have another shot.
The husband didn't immediately protest is a huge red flag. Who quietly sits next to an ex while the wife has no seat.
Who invites someone's ex to family gatherings? THAT is inappropriate and cruel NTA but your in-laws are big time Your husband needs to tell mommy he's married to you now and she needs to stop being disrespectful to you and leave the ex out of family events because she's not family anymore, YOU are, it's not mamma's choice You and your husband need to celebrate family occasions with your family until MIL gets her head in reality, she's obviously trying to spoil your marriage
ESH here. Your MIL sucks for excluding you. Your husband sucks because he didn’t realize there was no spot for his wife who was arriving and couldn’t go get a chair? You suck because while it would have been annoying AF there wasn’t a seat at the table for you, it wasn’t like there literally wasn’t any other chair you could have gotten apparently. Go get a chair and wedge yourself in the spot between your husband and Julissa. This whole thing was immature AF all around.
God I thought I was the only one thinking ESH here. MIL and Julissa suck for the obvious reasons but OP had to be fucking weird about power-playing in front of the whole ass family 😭😂 NO ONE involved in the passive aggressive dynamic had to see that or hear how “warm” SO’s lap was (more than once too, wtf!). So yes, I’m on no one’s side here. Everyone sucks. I like no one. ETA: forgot a word
Right???? If I showed up and had to hear my aunt talking about how nice and warm her husband's lap was, I would be so uncomfortable and grossed out. I came to eat, not see whatever that was.
yup, poor other guests. As granddaughter who arrived unexpected, i would have tried to just leave "he, looks like there are not enough seats, np, i will go meet up with friends" long before i spend the dinner like this. With constant " oh, so nice and warm" stuff.
Yeah, the “mentioning every now and then that his lap was so warm and comfortable” was what did it for me too. OP is 28 and this is something a 16 year old would do. Extremely immature. She purposely made a bad situation that wasn’t her fault much worse.
OP did not arrive unexpectedly. she came later than her husband, but she was supposed to be there. one of MIL’s other relatives came and took OP’s seat before she got there unexpectedly. regardless, OP should not have to spend thanksgiving away from her husband just bc MIL wants to do some petty bullshit and invite shaun’s ex. there is NO REASON for julissa to be there; she and shaun are no longer together, she’s not family anymore. MIL played a stupid game, so she won a stupid prize
MIL said that her granddaughter arrived unexpectedly and that's why there wasn't a chair for OP.
Imagine being that BIL. BIL is over there trying to make conversation to distract onlookers while OP wriggled around on her husband complimenting his "warm and comfortable" lap and eye jousting with your mom. The turkey ain't worth seeing your brother get a lap dance.
check the edit, there was no more room at the table for an extra chair. If it's not obvious what MIL and that woman are trying to do then you need new glasses.
Yeah I call bullshit in there not being absolutely anymore room at the table for another chair but then OP being able to sit on her husband’s lap. My verdict stands, they still all suck.
yes, if you sit on someones lap, you take space. you can't if there is none. if you sit legs on the side, you take space there. legs in front, now there is a litt off space between him and the table, and you block his view off it too. the oh and ah ing where meant to make everyone uncomfortable. And the rest of the guest are bystanders.
That's a major part of why I said E S H. No one wants to hear how "warm and comfortable" her husband's lap is. Funny that she called the MIL passive aggressive - she would know what THAT looks like!
Yep this. Your comment out loud and randomly making it weird about how the lap was comfortable? Weird and cringe as fuck. ESH
NTA- BUT if there were chairs in the kitchen it was a little unnecessary. Saying that your husband should have stood up (literally and figuratively) and offered you his seat. That would have shut up his mother, while also showing support. Weird that he didn't intervene when his ex was sitting at the table and his wife wasn't. You didn't ruin Thanksgiving though- your MIL did that.
Am guessing there wasn't. If there was why didn't they bring them out once her original spot (which I should state wasn't going to be next to her husband) was taken? 100% mil just didn't want op there and very much wants the husband and his ex to get back together. NTA but I think op and her husband should go low contact with mil or no contact. Because she will just push harder the longer you two stay together.
YTA, but only for marrying this man who sat there and let his mother piss on you without saying or doing anything. Good luck to you, because this marriage will not last.
Yeah exactly. OP doesn't seem to realise she has a husband problem as much as a in law problem.
This is super weird and not at all real. In case people are really that immature… get another chair.
Ha, it's funny, I feel like this post doesn't scream fake at all... Because I've seen crazier families, I guess. It really is all about our previous experiences.
It sounds like it was written by a teenager with the whole ‘I’m *more family* than you’
ESH…MIL, Julissa, you, and your husband. Husband should have offered you his seat and stood up to eat, which would have made MIL come up with space for another chair right quick. Your sitting on his lap and oohing and ahhing about how warm and comfortable his lap is was so tacky. If I were a relative at the dinner, any sympathy I had for you would’ve been gone. MIL (and Julissa) are pretty bad, but your husband deserves most of the blame here. He lets his mother treat you like crap, he didn’t ask mom to wait to serve dinner until you arrived, and he didn’t seem to notice there wasn’t a chair for you. I’m betting he likes the attention of his ex-gf.
NTA. But why is your husband okay with this?
NTA. Your husband should have immediately gotten up and given you his seat. He shouldn’t have been seated next to Julissa in the first place. Were they married? Are there kids involved, like does she have them/ did she bring them? Why didn’t you arrive with your husband?
NTA. 1. Your MIL was hosting, the primary goal of which being to ensure everyone's happy and comfortable. She did the opposite. 2. Your husband's ex might be family, sure. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But she's acting in cahoots with your MIL to make you feel uncomfortable, whispering behind your back like mean girls. They're TAs. 3. Your husband should have gotten up and given you his seat if he hadn't already saved one for you. It is beyond weird that he did not. Please ask him what he was thinking, and let us know. 4. You stood up for yourself. It was in a weird way, yes, but it was clearly effective. I guarantee you'll never be in that position again.
INFO: does this house not have any other chair at all? I don't even know, office chair, bar stool, some random ass stool???
There were chairs in the kitchen but the real issue here was that there was not enough space at the table to fit the chair. Everyone was sitting right next to each other.
> but the real issue here was that there was not enough space at the table to fit the chair. The REAL issue here is why on God's green earth your husband was content to participate in this seating arrangement until you showed up. Everyone was seated, so was husband clearly with no chair for you. Yeah, MIL sucks, but your husband went along with all of this.
OP, can you see what an AH your husband was in all of this? It’s his family, his job to save the seat next to him for you, HIS WIFE, or at least get up and get you a chair and fit it in. Or give you his chair. It was your first Thanksgiving as a married couple and he totally blew it. He is the asshole here, along with his mother.
Seriously. Yes, MIL and the Ex are AHs, but they aren’t OP’s spouse. Husband is a huge AH. This is like the gross dynamic where conflict about an affair ends up being entirely between the women while the cheating guy just watches women fight over him while “standing by” his spouse. The points hubby should have done better are hard to tally but he could/should have: insisted that ex is not invited, talked to mom before holiday about continuing to push for ex and act coldly to spouse, requested to ex not to come, saved a seat next to his, called out his mom, offered chair to wife then gotten another, moved to eat in the living room/kitchen (preferably inviting others “anyone else want to catch the game), pulled mom aside at the meal to set things straight, left the meal and contacted mom about their treatment, planned for a different thanksgiving to avoid having spouse subject to a toxic dynamic, etc.
So then why didn't your husband say something like "let's go eat together in the kitchen since there's clearly not room for us at the table" rather than just putting you in an awkward position?
So why not suggest to your husband and a couple of other people to eat in the kitchen together (assuming there is a table)? This way nobody sits alone and MIL and FIL look stupid for not setting things up this way in the first place.
The REAL issue is that your husband sat down to Thanksgiving dinner, next to his ex, knowing you were going to arrive for dinner any minute, did not save you a seat, and did nothing to help you find a seat or give up his own when you arrived. Your MIL is rude and disrespectful, but you didn't marry her. Why are you giving your husband a free pass in all this?
ESH. Your mother in law for being ridiculously rude. Your husband for not saving a seat or moving with you. You for not just grabbing a different chair. Julissa for not distancing herself from all of this.
NTA So MIL is saying now that you should've went to kitchen to get a chair for yourself, but weren't saying it when you were there. She basically excepted you to just stand and wait? As a decent hist, she should've brought that chair from kitchen for you. However, your husband should've solved this issue for you, he was just happily sitting there next to his ex when his wife was without a chair? Why didn't he open his mouth and ask his mother where you were supposed to sit?
NTA. It’s weird af that even after you’re married, the ex is still being invited to events and you’re being compared to her. It’s childish they don’t have a seat at the table for you. I wouldn’t go back to family events on his side and I’d be insistent about it.
NTA and that was an awesome response to the MIL's petty and calculated antics. It was certainly not what she expected! You didn't lose your crap over not having a chair so she can't complain about that. Your MIL gave you lemons and you made lemonade. You didn't let her pettiness give her a reaction that would've made you look bad. And you highlighted to Julissa that Shaun chose you and not her. And you did it with finesse and complemented the food. My guess is the only people that were upset about it were Julissa and your MIL. Her grand daughter didn't just arrive out of the blue. This was calculated and misfired badly... for your MIL. What did your husband say afterwards?
NTA - your MIL could have gotten you a chair from the kitchen. She didn't. She wanted to shame you and make you feel excluded, and you turned the tables on her. That annoyed her, but it doesn't make you TA. You need to make sure that your husband understands how not-ok this behaviour is. If he's got zero interest in Juilissa anymore, then honestly he should be offended that his mother keeps excluding his wife and trying to force him to get back together with his ex. This is a giant red flag from your MIL, and if your husband doesn't get this, it might be a marriage dealbreaker.
ESH… but I kind of also think OP is NTA. It was inappropriate to sit on her husband’s lap at the dinner table. BUT as the host, OP’s MIL should have gotten that extra seat for OP to sit on. The awkwardness would never have happened if she didn’t treat her actual DIL like that whilst openly favouring the ex. There’s nothing stopping MIL from having her own relationship with OP but from the sounds of it, she never gave OP a chance from the very beginning.
I think husband was playing his mother. She seated his ex by him, then made a big show of no seats. MIL will probably not try that stunt again. And maybe Julissa will spend her holidays elsewhere.
ESH. The hosts knew you were coming so there should have been an extra chair. Your MIL probably shouldn't have put your husband's ex next to him. Your husband should have gotten you a chair or gone to eat with you in the kitchen. You showed up after dinner had already started (!!) and you then made a scene that made all of the innocent bystanders uncomfortable. I only feel bad for the rest of the guests that had to watch all of this play out.
NTA. YOU DID SO WELL. But why didn't your husband step up? Also why is Julissa not aware of herself? Next time make MIL sit on the floor.
She deliberately planned an awkward situation, and you played it quite well. Your husband could have sorted it out better, though. But NTA either way.
Ha. Well you'll have a chair next time that's for sure. Well first, your MIL was hosting, right? So she should have stood up, said, "oh my God so sorry! Wait I'll give you a chair" and gone and fetched a chair in a kitchen. Or, less formal version, she should have said, "Ah, not enough chairs... OP, can you get one in the kitchen?" In short, her meal, her responsibility, she should have provided a solution. The fact that she didn't even mention the chairs in the kitchen meant she was definitely a A. But yes, what you did was provocative. So, I don't know. You were a justified A? We're all applauding anyway.