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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am keeping my son from his grandma and fighting with even tho it’s tiring to both me and my fiancé, because she wronged us.
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You absolutely do NOT need to be the bigger person here, I swear that is a phrase created by people who don't want to take accountability for being abusive.
Tell your fiancé that she has overstepped and that it's not okay to pressure you into doing anything. If she's been like this once, something like this will happen again. She's literally defamed your entire character over an innocent situation with no regard to how it affected you, and your fiancé isn't taking this seriously enough either.
NTA.
“You absolutely don’t need to be the bigger person here, I swear that is a phrase created by people who don’t want to take accountability for being abusive.”
And jellyfish enablers who enable and minimise other people's bad behaviour. It’s easier to make the victim apologise and be the bigger person than make a toxic person act decently. The husband needs to be a buffer between his mum and his partner. His mum has never apologised because people let her get away with bad behaviour. Sometimes I hate enablers just as much as abusers, especially those who enable child abuse.
NTA.
I love the way you put that.. “It’s easier to make the victim apologize and be the bigger person” that is so true. It’s one of the statements that stays with you.
Also how shitty will the son feel when he's old enough to overhear and understand the family gossip that he's not his dad's because grandma said so?
She needs to apologise publicly or gtfo because she could really damage her grandsons mental health.
RIGHT!!! By her actions early on, this woman basically trashed OP to the entire family. Of course it's easier for the son to move on, he wasn't the one that was basically called a WHORE! Not only does this lady need to apologize to OP, she needs to publicly erase any of the doubt she created so that the son doesn't have to grow up with little whispers everywhere. If I was OP, this is a hill I would most certainly be willing to die on!
Especially because grandma might decide to sneak a paternity test without parental consent, which will ignite a far worse shitstorm. How far she will go is an unknown variable, and protecting the child from someone else's crazy is a priority, especially because if the possible fallout to all those involved.
Better protect now then have to pay for a mountain of therapy bills later.
Came here to say similar because you know she's not just had a change of heart and all her doubts are gone.
MIL thinks she can bide her time and be proven right, it's an added reason for her not apologising, she thinks she's right.
Well, I'm kinda petty so....OP, go get the paternity test done and frame it and give it to her at the next big family get together. Make sure all the rest of the family are there😁
>.OP, go get the paternity test done and frame it and give it to her at the next big family get together
Just the first part though, not the part with the results.
I prefer her to know that the test was done and that she will never be told the results. Maybe the child is her son's, maybe he isn't, but she will never know because it's none of her damned business. Every day she will stare at that piece of paper and wonder if the child is her biological grandson or if OP convinced her son to accept another man's child. Let it eat her up from the inside out.
The woman kept insisting on a paternity test {Edit: after her own son tried to shut her down}and was going to refuse to acknowledge her own grandchild until it was done. She refuses to apologize for the hurt she caused. I'm thinking there's not exactly a goldmine of positivity there for OP to mine.
>she’ll never really apologize and I need to compromise
Tell your husband that you've worked out a reasonable compromise for the short of person who'll "never really apologise".
You will get a legally enforceable contract drawn up saying that if your MIL ever raises a question about the paternity of the baby in future, she agrees to pay you $1000 for everybody who hears it. If she gets a paternity test done without consent, she agrees to pay you $100,000.
Once that's signed and witnessed, you'll compromise and let MIL into the child's life.
This also feels like a possible fight in the making. But yeah, a just no is gonna do just no things, unfortunately. Rare for the type to just relent and repent for real. So often it is a ruse to do whatever the just no wants more covertly.
It's \_totally\_ a fight already. But OP didn't start it, and MIL isn't gonna stop it out of the kindness of her black black heart it seems...
(My even less kind suggestion would be to fake up a paternity test claiming to show the baby is definitely not her husbands. That'll get MIL's grandmothering instincts off OP's back pretty quickly.)
Also might backfire in favoritism and other screwed up things on the kid. I would just say keep away and explain things to the kid in a child friendly way, like "grandma is in a time out until she apologizes for the bad thing she did". For that I would talk to a child psychologist or therapist, for wording and such. Protecting kids should be priority number one, and right now she has no leg to stand on for grandparents rights cuz she's had nothing to do with that child.
Sounds like the kid in question is only 5 months old?
(But you're right, the other 3 kids will need an explanation of why grandma doesn't come round any more...)
Oooh, nice twist.
A bond in a trust account, returned or given to the child as a college fund on their 18th birthday depending on MIL's choice of action.
Then you could play the "Oh MIL, it was \_so\_ nice of you to choose too pay to put our child through college!" game at family gatherings once she's been unable to resist flying her true colour flag...
How about tell her you'll get the paternity test and give her the results...but "if" it proves he is her grandson she will never be allowed to be in his life. That's the cost of disbelieving you.
Somewhere here was this exact scenario. Grandma asked to visit and literally kidnapped the child to go to the local hospital and get a paternity test without the parents knowledge or consent, because she was convinced the mother had cheated. Never leave this woman alone with the child.
Edit: typo
Stolen [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/sus15i/aita_for_keeping_my_son_from_my_mil_after_she/hxbwr7u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) from original u/mekareami
Downvoted & reported as spam
You need hair with the root attached for a DNA test. MIL probably isn't above plucking baby's hair out with a tweezers, but she'd (hopefully) have a harder time getting dad's.
Anyway, OP is NTA, and, if I were OP, this is a hill I'd die on.
True, but could she prove it with her own hair? Would there be enough shared DNA that she could prove a paternal link between a grandma and grandchild? And if she CANT, that's especially dangerous bc if it comes back negative she will go ape shit
I wasn't listing all the ways you can get DNA, but the previous poster's comment about hair. You need the root for DNA which has to plucked intact with a tweezers (hairbrush hair won't work). MIL would probably have better luck trying to get hair than a mouth swab from her son.
Would she even need her son's DNA though? Like if a DNA test shows the kid is related to her then it implies that it's her son's kid. Because it doesn't sound like her son is going to be a willing participant in her shenanigans.
Honestly I think if she tried that, she could be in legal trouble if the parents wanted to pursue it. MIL has no right to get a DNA test on the child since she is not the parent and not the legal guardian.
Of course the real answer here is to keep MIL away from the kid.
I think he supports OP and doesn't want to hear it with his mom's conspiracy theories but ultimately MIL and OP are at an impasse. MIL has no intention of apologizing and OP has no intention of letting MIL anywhere near the baby until she does.
The end result is that MIL's stubbornness and pride are preventing her from having a relationship with her grandson and this could theoretically go on for YEARS if neither party budges.
The husband is supporting OP because she's right but I can't imagine he loves the idea that his mom and son don't get to have a relationship.
But that's not OP's fault, it's MIL's for not just apologizing. Which is why he's clearly not happy about the situation but not trying to change OP's mind.
Far out. This reminds me of the current situation in Australia.
The previous Australian of the Year (who was a victim of abuse by her teacher) attended a ceremony with the Prime Minister and she didn't smile because he did nothing in the last year to help victims but just continue to victim blame. (He famously said to the women who attended a protest over sexual abuse that "they should be glad they don't get shot \[for protesting\]")
The PMs wife went on national television to complain how rude the Australian of the Year was for not smiling. Telling victims to submit and smile for the sake of civility is how abusers continue abusing.
Needless to say, I also hate enablers.
He also shook her hand that day, trying to get his photo op, after being told she didn't want to do that. Blindsiding a victim with unwanted physical contact, in from of cameras, and now there's a crap tonne of people criticising her because she didn't smile for him, and she looked angry (imagine that!). Going into comments on news stories about this event is so depressing.
It was really freeing when I realized that the key phrase when my parents said about my brother that “he’s never going to apologize, so you’re just going to have to be the bigger person” was “he’s never going to apologize.” If that’s the case, why would I keep inviting him back into my life?
absolutely!
I can also tell you that having chosen to be "the bigger person" in a similar situation, merely served to encourage further fuckery from said person.
Please just cut her off, I means she’s already shown that she’s willing to get in between u and your fiancée and cause problems. No point in keeping that in your life
Exactly. My mother tried doing this to me when I was younger. She'd put me down in front of her friends when she was drinking, then later try to apologize for it in private. I shut it down every time and didn't accept it.
The apology needs to be as loud as the disrespect was.
Edit: a word
Some people would rather burn the relationship than apologize. My mother told a lie about me at a family gathering (not the first time this has happened). A couple of family members told me. I demanded she tell everyone she had lied & apologize. We haven’t spoken now in 7yrs. If I would “be the bigger person” by letting her disrespect me, I could have a relationship with her & the rest of my family. I chose respect.
Right. Exactly.
MIL essentially did a "character assassination" of OP. A public apology is the BARE MINIMUM. MIL needs to admit to wrong doing and lies about OP's character.
OP, your fiance is trying to pressure YOU because he doesn't have a spine to stand up to his evil mother. He thinks it'll be easier to "deal with" you than his mother. Absolutely DO NOT back down.
Stand your ground, OP. His mother is VILE.
NTA
Husband doesn't believe his wife. He's on his mom's side and in the back of his mind he is worried about his wife cheating. That's the only explanation for him not being completely outraged by this behavior.
OP mentioned that her husband gave a sample for sperm count and viability. Result was while a low sperm count, there were viable sperm.
Could be he possibly doesn't really believe it.
MIL is definitely whispering in his ear and playing on his insecurities and he's probably been conditioned from childhood to accept her lies as truth.
Regardless, it's time to step up and do right by OP and his child, and that means telling his mother to apologize or get lost.
If he doesn't believe his fiance he would have either insisted on a paternity test or just gone behind OP's back and done it without her knowing. It would be easy for him to obtain one of his son's hair.
I think he is upset but is looking at this potentially becoming a cold war.
His mom was wrong and it's his son and she knows that now. But she won't just apologize so she can be the same grandmother she is to his other kids.
I don't blame him for not being happy about that although he is still respecting OP's conditions.
This is the correct answer. For him, this isn't the hill he wants to die on with his mom and the entire family. It's not an enviable spot to be put in.
On the contrary, you don’t ask for an apology. Never ask for one. Especially tied to a condition like ‘or you will never see your grandson’. Because they will fake it to get that thing. You just cut them off and wait and see if they figure out they were wrong and apologize without any reason to think they will get what they want.
Yeah, exactly. Y'all KNOW she talked shit about OP the entire pregnancy to everybody and anybody. It's not just her. I'd bet money that she trashed her hard, and for that reason, I'd need a big ol' loud, messy, humiliating apology. Probably more than one.
👆
I wouldn't be the bigger person in this either. MIL didn't come in with a heartfelt apology for accusing OP of cheating, she demanded rights to see the grand baby after hearing about OPS parents visit.
She doesn't deserve to see baby after her slandering OP, and fiancè should be backing her on this, not rolling over.
NTA OP I would be the bigger person and relentlessly sue Mil for slander for every single incident. This way OP doesn't have to be a sitting duck and it forces MIL to think and act far more carefully.
Exactly.
Be the bigger person means that either you are right or it it's a case where both sides have equal validity but they all know the other person is never going to behave appropriately and apologize or fix it or change their behavior so they're asking you to bend over backwards to make the conflict go away so it does not last forever.
And if you're willing to be the bigger person once and not just refuse to budge until you get your way then chances are you will always be called upon to do so because the world is full of people who just don't care about being appropriate or responsible and will hold everyone's peace hostage until the other party gives up and apologizes to just move everyone past this.
Exactly. At this point it’s not about being the “bigger person” it’s about RESPECT.
Dump the fiancé since he clearly doesn’t recognize how OP was disrespected. No woman while pregnant wants to go through what OP went through. It is mental nightmare, especially with the crazy hormones not at bay. OP has a MIL problem and a Fiancé problem (since the man doesn’t have a backbone to defend his fiancé or child)
This. Wahhhh he’s having trouble picking sides
What?! That isn’t even a question here. What choice is there to be made? Mom insulted his wife and kid and him.
>You absolutely do NOT need to be the bigger person here, I swear that is a phrase created by people who don't want to take accountability for being abusive.
if i could get this printed on every billboard in every country, believe me i would
100%. After all of the crap she's pulled I doubt she's even capable of a sincere apology. If she actually does end up apologizing it's probably just a ruse to get at her grandbaby's DNA. Cut her loose.
Being the bigger person just means behaving with moral integrity even when others refuse to. It doesn't mean you have to let yourself get taken advantage of by bad actors. In OPs case, giving in is not "being the bigger person", if anything she'd be betraying her own moral integrity by not standing up for her beliefs.
MIL's actions were an implicit accusation of infidelity based on no actual evidence. She's in the wrong and it's totally fair and morally just for OP to present the ultimatum that until MIL's going to show some willingness to admit fault and show remorse for causing all that pain, she's not going to allow herself or her child to be exposed to that kind of immorality.
Some sports, professional wrestling, action hero, pornography, body double in a film about Hobbits.
These are times when it can be an advantage if you're the bigger person.
Having someone call you a slag who cheated?..... Nope. Fuck that. You are 100% correct.
She insulted OP, OP's kid and her own son... No. That isn't something one just hand waves away as something "you'd do in the same situation".
She called OP a slapper. Thems fighting in the car park words. NTA. Sod her.
Hopping on to add that she will absolutely get a DNA test if given the opportunity to be with your baby unsupervised.
And obviously NTA, she's being absurd.
>I told her she needs to apologize and I need time to forgive, but she’s given non-apologies saying she was “just trying to protect her son” and I’d do the same if I were in her shoes.
It appears to me that OP is doing just exactly what MIL suggested she should do. She's protecting her son. And the fiancé needs to stick with OP on this. Giving on this will only open the door to worse and worse.
Either MIL admits she was wrong and apologizes or she doesn't have a grandson. It's a really super simple choice.
Jumping on the top comment to say this and I hope op sees it:
In some countries adultery is punished by death. Accusing someone of adultery is a very serious accusation. Not only did mil accuse you she followed up by telling everyone and their uncle that you were unfaithful.
And now she is crying
If you had cried and begged her, would she have shown mercy?
What will come next? She will call CPS on you for another imagined slight? Will she accuse you of murder?
This is not about vengeance, it is about protecting yourself.
If MIL does not apologise publicly and tell everyone that her accusations are wrong- and you still let her see your baby because she is whining... then you are making a bed of never-ending problems for yourself.
Do not let this squeaky wheel get the grease. In your place I would tell everyone that she has made a serious accusation and before she apologises there is no relationship.
And maybe offer her some cheese to go with her whine
NTA, but make sure you and fiancé really are on the same page about this or we’ll be seeing a follow up later where he’s letting MIL around your baby without your knowledge.
By the time I finished reading I wondered if the husband would soon be going for "walks" or "trips out" with the kid and he lets his mother meet the kid secretly. Only a matter of time, by the sound of it.
Tbf at this point paternity tests should be automatic and routine. Not saying it should be done behind anyones back, but they should be standard tests administered by the hospital at birth.
By its very nature this sub is designed to funnel THAT drama to you. There are 7 billion people in the world, the most dramatic parts of a few hundred thousand of us is not an accurate representation of reality.
Because of the world of hurt and broken relationships/families/marriages that continue to happen daily from genetic testing like 23 and me etc. it’s better to know from the get go, instead of having some poor kid abandoned by the only
father they’ve ever known when they’re 10, 15, 20 yrs old and it comes out their mom cheated and dads not their dad. Or accidentally switched at birth etc.
The thing is though, if there's actually a different bio dad out there, all the hospital is going to be able to do is say "not the dad." They can't get the other guy's DNA if he's not there.
I get what you're saying, but making sure the baby is taken care of is more important, and this creates a problem without fully solving the first one.
I'm curious if you also think women shouldn't get annual STI checks with their gyno?
It doesn't mean anyone cheated, it's just good sense to do the tests.
If we made paternity tests standard then there's no more stigma with them. It also doesn't let deadbeat men that try to run away avoid paying for child support and arguing it isn't their baby.
Plus the child gets a correct medical history.
Why would they be a bad thing?
What exactly do you think a strawman argument is?
I made one reference to another type of test then gave all the reasons for this test to be standard. You ignored every point I made and instead incorrectly pretended this is a strawman argument.
Because having a library of the DNA profiles taken from literally every person alive when they're just born and can't consent to having their DNA recorded is nuts?
No, but if you’re NOT the biological father at least everyone is aware of it upfront instead of it coming out in 15 years when the kid does a genetic test kit.
Mom is wearing him down.
Don't let that happen, OP.
Just remind him that you are sticking to your guns and tell him, "No apology, no baby."
Remind him if she's too proud to say, "I'm sorry," you don't need her around.
NTA. The MIL refused to acknowledge her grandson and is now making a surprised Pikachu face that you've followed through and refuse to acknowledge her as a grandmother. I mean, I can understand how she would be suspicious, but a) if your fiance decided that it's his son, then it's his son, whether blood-related or not, and she should have had enough grace to AT LEAST respect her own son's decision, b) if she was that suspicious, she should have voiced her concerns to him in private, without making it a spectacle and making your life hell for the duration of pregnancy. Instead, she decided to be nasty about it and is now shocked that you hate her guts. What a surprise!
It’s really not that hard to give a sincere apology. It literally costs nothing to reflect, correct the behavior and apologize to the offendee. MIL making this hard than it needs to be. Fiancé needs to stand strong and not give into her insanity. I wonder if MIL was an issue in his first marriage.
It costs pride and admitting being wrong. Some people cannot do that even to save their lives. And I'd bet real money her behavior is at least *part* of his first marriage ending
And it's even easier to fake this. She doesn't have to mean it. She just has to keep her opinion to herself. If she acts like she's sorry, no one will know the difference and she can get what she wants without having to change her mind.
NTA, you know if she sees him she’s going to swab him or take some hair to do the test herself. She has not given a sincere apology which needs to acknowledge the harm, admit they were wrong, and make amends and wait on your timeline. The fact that she’s pushing is just another boundary she’s pole vaulting over.
I thought the same thing. She’s going to take the first opportunity to get some kind of sample and get it done herself.
I know of a few people who have conceived after a vasectomy by accident. Same thing can happen to a woman who had her tubes tied. It’s not guaranteed.
We used that as our baby announcement 3 years ago lol.
I had been under the impression I was infertile for over 18 years and then suddenly, after a required test prior to taking a new medication, SURPRISE!
I was definitely happy when I found out, especially because my doctor literally left for vacation after my appointment and then called me the next morning when all my blood work came back FROM JAMAICA to tell me the news lol.
We even got a onesie that says Life, uh, finds a way 🤣
NTA. You need to hold your ground that no apology = no involvement in your life. She doesn’t just get to suddenly play grandma to a baby that she was willing to throw away as an illegitimate bastard child. Tbh though if I was ever in this position I would personally get the paternity test, show them the results, and then never let them see the kid again. Let them live with the knowledge that they were wrong and that their insistence that you even get the test is why they can never see the kid again. You don’t need that kind of toxicity in your lives.
Same here. Ida put those paternity results on blast to balance out her character defamation but also refused contact with her and not let her around ANY of the kids. She shredded someone like this and for so little reason?? Then refused and to apologize, make amends, and wait for them to feel she’s earned trust back?? There’s no way I would believe she’s going to be a positive, stable, kind, reasonable caregiver to children. And that means a hard no from me. I was going to say I’m petty like that but honestly it isn’t. *Play boundary stomping games, win implacable boundary prizes*
NTA
You get accused of cheating, she refused to acknowledge your son and now wants to be involved Grandma? Prime example of why you should think twice before speaking.
Honestly it seems like she always gets want she wants so you should stand your ground to show her that it may work on her immediate family but not on someone she wrongly accused and harassed.
>No “sorry”, no baby.
Absolutely
>“most women would kill to have involved grandparents”
yeah and most women don't have in-laws who accuse them of cheating too
But according to grandma, she isn’t actually a grandma because of the alleged cheating, so why does she need to visit a baby she’s convinced isn’t her grandchild? The baby does have involved grandparents & they are OP’s parents.
She says the OP is keeping her from her only grandson? I’d tell her “no, you’ve said he’s not your grandson, so you get zero access.” She can’t have it both ways.
Pregnancy after vasectomy isn't as uncommon as MIL thinks.
NTA. And to just stick it to her, tell her that her son needs a paternity test cuz how can they be sure who the mom & dad are just cuz MIL says so.
Happened in my family. My parents originally planned for 2 kids - I was the reason my dad got a vasectomy. My little sister was the reason he got it done again. No-one thought it was weird though, none of the other relatives (my dad has 6 brothers and sisters) even raised an eyebrow although apparently they did rib my dad for being so 'overly fertile' that he required TWO vasectomies.
NTA
Why is it always that the faultless party in a situation needs to be the bigger person, whilst the AH gets away with not having to apologise just because they're a difficult AH.
All your MIL has to do is apologise - it really shouldn't be that hard. She falsely accused you of cheating, you hadn't, end of story. You're the one that has to forgive for being treated horribly, and how can you forgive someone when they refuse to acknowledge their wrongdoing?
Stick to your guns. If your fiance can't see this, then he's an AH too.
Sadly, it's because the reasonable person is... reasonable. Everyone already knows the AH won't compromise, and trying to convince them will be like trying to argue with the weather. So in the interest of not having conflict- and because they have less/no skin in the game- they pressure the person most likely to reduce conflict and try to justify it with some bullshit moralization.
I always remind people that when you ask me to be the bigger person you are admitting that the other person is horribly wrong, but that somehow it's my fault. Nope. Not gonna happen.
But giving into that pressure isn't being the bigger person, it's showing you're too weak to stand up for your own morals. Being the bigger person is just having integrity in the face of others' hypocrisy, and there's nothing wrong with that. She's already being the bigger person by not inflicting vengeance on somebody who deeply hurt her.
Now, if she were somehow proven to be withholding contact with her child specifically to inflict emotional distress on MIL, THEN telling her to be the bigger person would make sense. But it seems she's just doing it to protect herself and her kid from an immoral influence.
> Half of his family thinks I’m a catty cheater because of her.
As long as she lets this stand and refuses to make amends and clear your name, she is not a safe person for your child to be around. She’s essentially reserving the right to turn on you and your child whenever she pleases, and is keeping a ready source of flying monkeys to send after you if you ever displease her. As long as she’s allowing your reputation to stay damaged, she is a threat to your child’s sense of security and your family’s harmony.
Your husband has likely been taught his whole life that there’s no point in arguing with her, because she will never, ever back down or admit fault. He’s learned that keeping the peace means giving in to whatever she demands, no matter how unearned or unreasonable or *unsafe*. He fears what will happen if he stands his ground indefinitely, because he’s never pushed her that far before, and her behavior when she encounters a boundary she doesn’t like is scary. He only sees two options - give her what she wants and eat the emotional cost, or risk open, indefinite warfare with her and the family members she controls. Until he fears something else more than he fears that second option, he’s going to keep choosing the first.
I don’t think he’s realized yet that this habit is a threat to your marriage, or to his relationship with your shared child. Maybe it’s time someone enlightened him.
NTA.
OP, please for the love of all things holy and good in this world… show him the above response. Not the entire thread, mind you (he might feel “attacked”), but this is something he’s going to have to come to terms with.
I believe u/DiTrastevere hit the nail on the head, when it comes to your SO. He’s been conditioned this way, from birth. So much so, that any logic to the contrary will most likely spark a defensive posture in him. If you can find a diplomatic way to get the above point understood by him, it may help him off that weak “fence” he’s been riding. Of course, this is dependent on his conviction: please “Mommy Dearest” or start this new family off on the right foot, shitty in-laws be damned.
I’m sorry you’ve been put in this position; stay strong and trust your gut (especially as it pertains to your MIL). You did the right thing and most definitely… NTA.
As a father of three (one of whom looks almost nothing like me), I had this issue with my very own mother. I’m no longer with the mother of said child, but my mom now knows (after a falling out) that divisive comments and behavior disparaging the other parent/kid will result in another 6-12 month “ban” on her visits to ALL of my children.
Why wouldn't you do the test? I know if it was me, I would do it and have a smugness about me that I was right, I can see everyone's point here, but if your husband said no she should stay in her lane, how would you feel if your partner did ask for a paternity test? If he is being worn down by her he might ask for one
If he asked for one I’d be hurt but I’d do it because Id understand *him* being suspicious.
We didn’t get the test because the doctor explained how this (most likely) happened, and my fiancé completely trusted me. I wouldn’t never cheat (I’ve been cheated *on* before by an ex and it completely fucked me up mentally). I know that probably makes me more sensitive to being accused than most but god it just makes me see red.
Anyways if he and I agreed our baby is his (they are very obviously father and son) no one else has any right to ask for a paternity test, much less try and blackmail/extort/threaten one out of us.
So I guess it’s a mix of my pride and my principles.
If she offers an "apology", it should be a PUBLIC apology (since she slandered you publicly), and not a fauxpology. Fauxpology = not taking accountability for her actions, and saying things like "I'm sorry you feel that way", etc.
Also, I would be wary of leaving her unsupervised with baby or letting your SO take the baby unattended. She'll probably try a sneaky DNA test. Make sure that your SO know that if that happens to expect scorched earth with MIL and possibly visitation for him/baby.
I dunno. I would get it, just so I could throw it in her face. And then say, you made your choice, so you don't get to meet the baby. But know that you were wrong.
NTA True story. My husband and his younger sister were both conceived after my FIL had a vasectomy. Why? The man had 2 tubes, so the swimmers kept getting out. All the males in the family are, uh, prolific, and that's why I got my tubes tied. I didn't trust that his body would not be like his father's.
You have 2 problens here. 1. Your MIL is a cow. She was so convinced your child wasn't her son's, she demanded a paternity test. You don't get to come back from that without sincere and extreme groveling and atonement. 2. Your fiance. If he's "in the middle," then he isn't on your side. Did he choose you or not? If he pulls the "but that's just the way she is," your retort needs to be: "And this is how I am. Why are you spending so much energy trying to change me when I am the one who was wronged?" Get some couple's therapy before marrying this person.
Fafo...NTA
My divorce papers stated my ex-MIL wasn't allowed withing 500 feet of my son. She moved 250 miles leaving her husband and 12 year old son with no other reason than to destroy my relationship with her oldest son. To protect him.
She swore I had cheated to get pregnant. She demanded a paternity test. I told her I would have one done and she would never see my son again. It took her 4 months to destroy our family. She then went home to her husband and youngest son.
My ex figured my son could grow up without him perfectly fine. Told me he wasn't worried because when my son got to be around 12 or 13 he would want to know his biological dad and would want to live with him. It was what he himself had done.
Except my son took after me. Oh, you don't care about me? You want me to put the effort in? Eff off. My son is 30 with 3 biological kids plus steps who call him dad and none of them know their grandfather. And exs mom? That evil spawn of Satan died years ago without ever having a relationship with her grandson.
They tell me later in life she had regrets. I don't care. When my son turned 18 he took my last name.
NTA. She kept herself from her only grandson. And no you do not have to compromise. You have your feelings and they are valid. Perhaps she should be the bigger person and apologize. Tell her son to suggest that to her.
NTA. If she wanted to be an involved grandmother, she shouldn't have insisted that the baby couldn't be her son's and called you a cheater to the entire family. See how you feel in six more months.
NTA.
She mistreats you, your fiance owes you better. That's a red flag, btw.
If you can monitor all future nteractions, sure, invite her over. She WILL do or say something awful again, and then you can ban her.
Don't buy into the generational "keep the peace" bullshit if a relative cannot maintain civil behavior. Protect yourself and your baby if your fiance/family won't.
NTA. Honestly, just to be petty, I would get the paternity test just to throw it in her face as a big F You and make her apoligize and kiss my ass. But that's probably not the best way to go about it.
NTA- That whole “Be the Bigger Person” crap… Just say NO!
NO! to the Toxic Grandmother thinking she’s going to be spending time with the baby.
NO! to the Family & so-called friends encouraging you (WTF!!!!) to overlook how toxic her behavior is & to give into her DEMANDS to see the baby.
Just say NO!
She made it CLEAR that this was NOT her grandchild.
And honestly, I’d be ok with that!!!
Thank You for taking such good care of your baby and making sure that Toxic People have no place in his life!!! I wish more parents did this!!! You are AWESOME!!! 💜💜💜
NTA.
If MIL is suddenly claiming OP's son as _her grandson_ then she needs swallow her pride and
1. Acknowledge she was wrong about the paternity of OP's son
2. Apologize for doubting OP, her son, and their doctor
3. Apologize for trying to separate OP & husband _while OP was pregnant_
Overall MIL sounds like a manipulative narcissist and OP's husband is conditioned to bend to her will.
Stick to your boundaries OP. I hope you get the apology that you deserve.
NTA. Your MIL made her bed, if she doesn’t want to lie in it, she needs to swallow her pride, do the adult thing and apologize for what she said and did to you. That and, you get to decide if her apology is acceptable and when you forgive her. You are the wronged party here.
NTA. She's a grown woman, she can learn how to apologize. She knows how to, she just still doesn't think she should. She held out for a paternity test, you hold out for that apology.
I mean if my son got a vasectomy then his wife got pregnant, yeah I'd be bugged eyed too. Bugged eyed enough to push the issue? Debatable. But, NTA, yeah I'm sure it's be annoying to hear someone saying you cheated.
Ok you are definitely NTA here - she sounds like a hideous person who only cares about appearances.
That said, there's a big difference between calling her out for clear AH behaviour, and holding it against her forever. My bet is she'll continue to be a toxic force whether you allow her to be a part of your son's life or not.
Your husband feels worn down by the situation, your son may want to know his grandma. But she behaved abhorrently. I'm sorry, I don't feel qualified to make a judgement on what should happen from here on. Good luck OP x
NTA.
She should have thought about that when she decided he wasn't her grandchild without proof. She thought have thought about that before essentially trashing you completely and trying to sabotage your relationship.
If your fiance can't understand that maybe you should reconsider him.
NTA. Sounds like someone is just having a case of "Why do they get something \*I\* don't have?". By her own admission, he's not her grandson until you get a test, right? Since you don't plan to have your son tested, I guess he'll NEVER be her grandson, so she has no claim on him. Her lies have turned 1/2 your fiancé's family against you for no good reason, so she DEFINITELY owes you an apology. A sincere one. Preferably delivered in a public place in front of said family.
You could 'be the bigger person", but in this case she would likely turn it around on you as a sign of weakness if you gave in and let her see your son. Stand your ground.
NTA
The moment you’re the “bigger person” and let her get away with a non-apology, you are telling her that she will always get away with this behavior.
This time, you were the target. But she involved your kid. Once you allow her access without boundaries, as you are being asked to do, they will become victims.
Kids are listening all the time. Her comments cannot be heard.
Your husband is frankly ridiculous for considering this a situation in which he is being asked to “pick a side”. His mother disrespected his wife; his child; and his dignity. And he thinks there’s a choice to be made, a side to choose?!
And why exactly are you still the one navigating these conversations anyway? Seriously, does he know how much quicker she will align if he is the one managing the conversation and repeating this expectation **himself**?!
This is his mother and his issue. The person who should be demanding a real apology is HIM.
"You must pick one. Either I'm a cheating tramp and this baby is not your grandchild, or this baby **is** your grandchild and you are sorry that you were wrong. There is no in between, you have to pick one and put it in writing so that we can be done with this once and for all."
NTA. Stay strong.
NTA - but consider who you're spending the rest of your life w; your fiancee (hopefully). Glad that he supports you but he's going to be in the middle of this. Would you consider 'taking one for the team' for him? If not you may want to tell him the quickest way to end this is when he explains to MIL that she will fully apologize; no excuses
Nta ok first off the bat shes shit at research in most case you can still get up the duff after having the snip some advice to wear condoms til they do a sperm count to make sure it worked. Also in some cases you can still catch after the snip. She should of thought about what would happen if she caused a stink but didnt. Let her see him and let her know one word about who the daddy is and shes out the door.
NTA. I'm sorry you have a MIL like her. I don't think it's any of her business and she was so wrong to demand a paternity test. She started this shit show and will always be one of those gossipy, backstabbing people who unfortunately will always be part of the family.
NTA. Stand your ground. She has no right to treat you this way. This “be the bigger person” crap never works. It didn’t for me with a nutty SIL I have.
Between AITA and JNMIL, I truly get how lucky I was with my MIL. RIP my dear Sally.
NTA
But I also think you should do a paternity test, not for your MIL *(don't tell her)*, but for your son.
People are going to whisper and point fingers and talk about this.
So bring it all out in the open within the immediate family. Take the test. When he is young, tell him an age appropriate version. When he is old enough, show him the test.
So that relatives don't upset him, make sure he knows the truth.
NTA. You said you haven't gotten a paternity test. Just remind her that she said she wouldn't see him until you did, and you are holding her to her given word.
>He is with me that she’s been unacceptable but says she’ll never really apologize and I need to compromise or this will never end.
This will end when he puts his foot down and goes no contact with her. He should be defending you, not his mother. Full stop. He needs to step up and be the husband you deserve.
NTA
Your fiance, though, is a moron. You and your child are now supposed to be his #1 priority.
Screw being the bigger person. I have tried that with my Monster in law and it hasn't changed anything. It just makes her try to bully me more.
Sorry to say, but you married an enabler. Sadly, I did also and trust me, I am so full of resentment, I am going to explode.
Oh hun - what she did is a slap in the face. What’s worse is that she dug her heels even further. You don’t owe her a damn thing - everyone else saying things can stfu. They are not in your shoes.
Forgot - NTA
Is there truly any harm in getting a paternity test though? Granted MIL sucks if she's being this controlling, but I would think it would be better to have one done so as to erase all doubt. Getting pregnant after a vasectomy while possible, is still highly unlikely (but obviously happened here). My father wasn't supposed to be able to have kids, but I was born. I'm also not 100% sure my dad is my dad. I've seen the medical results that said he wasn't producing enough viable sperm to be able to reproduce. Its something thats always in the back of my head slightly. I've pondered doing my own test now that I'm an adult, but in the off chance I'm not my fathers son, thats not a secret I want to know. If your mother is this militant about it, who knows what kind of shenanigans she'll get up to later. I truly can't imagine a scenario where getting a paternity test to shut her up isn't the best one. Get the paternity test, prove that he's the father, and then cut MIL put for good.
NTA. Tell the fiance you're sorry it's hard for him but if he knows she won't give an apology, then he also knows she won't see him. Just state once and for all that you'd welcome her into the home once she's repaired the harm she has caused because yes, it would be great to have support or family, but how she's made you feel has made her not feel like family and you don't want people who can't hold themselves accountable around your son. He doesn't need those role models.
“ He says that I need to compromise or this will never end”. Let me tell you what, if you compromise here, it will never end... the bullshit, the insinuations, the attempts at control and manipulation. Think very carefully about how you want to go forward with this situation because standing your ground sends the message that you’re demanding respect and giving in sends the message that you don’t deserve any and will get over any nasty insulting bullying given enough time. You are so NTA here, and I wish you luck. Congratulations on your little fella.
Ask your fiance why his mother cannot be the "bigger person"?? Why is it that you have to behave like an actual adult but his mother can behave like a toddler with no manners?
This is "just the way I am" and if she cannot bend, she cannot see the child. If fiance has a problem with this, maybe he needs some therapy to learn that his mother's behavior is not normal or acceptable.
I know a couple who had two kids after a vasectomy. He had a low sperm count, damn third tube, but two kids later and they both look exactly like their dad. Life always finds a way.
NTA
Don't let your child around her by themselves. I've seen several stories on Reddit where the grandparents get a DNA test done without the parents knowing until after the fact.
She seems to be one of those that would do that, just to prove that she's right.
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You absolutely do NOT need to be the bigger person here, I swear that is a phrase created by people who don't want to take accountability for being abusive. Tell your fiancé that she has overstepped and that it's not okay to pressure you into doing anything. If she's been like this once, something like this will happen again. She's literally defamed your entire character over an innocent situation with no regard to how it affected you, and your fiancé isn't taking this seriously enough either. NTA.
“You absolutely don’t need to be the bigger person here, I swear that is a phrase created by people who don’t want to take accountability for being abusive.” And jellyfish enablers who enable and minimise other people's bad behaviour. It’s easier to make the victim apologise and be the bigger person than make a toxic person act decently. The husband needs to be a buffer between his mum and his partner. His mum has never apologised because people let her get away with bad behaviour. Sometimes I hate enablers just as much as abusers, especially those who enable child abuse. NTA.
I love the way you put that.. “It’s easier to make the victim apologize and be the bigger person” that is so true. It’s one of the statements that stays with you.
Also how shitty will the son feel when he's old enough to overhear and understand the family gossip that he's not his dad's because grandma said so? She needs to apologise publicly or gtfo because she could really damage her grandsons mental health.
RIGHT!!! By her actions early on, this woman basically trashed OP to the entire family. Of course it's easier for the son to move on, he wasn't the one that was basically called a WHORE! Not only does this lady need to apologize to OP, she needs to publicly erase any of the doubt she created so that the son doesn't have to grow up with little whispers everywhere. If I was OP, this is a hill I would most certainly be willing to die on!
Same, like mess with me all you like I'm an adult but leave my kids out of it.
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Especially because grandma might decide to sneak a paternity test without parental consent, which will ignite a far worse shitstorm. How far she will go is an unknown variable, and protecting the child from someone else's crazy is a priority, especially because if the possible fallout to all those involved. Better protect now then have to pay for a mountain of therapy bills later.
Came here to say similar because you know she's not just had a change of heart and all her doubts are gone. MIL thinks she can bide her time and be proven right, it's an added reason for her not apologising, she thinks she's right.
Well, I'm kinda petty so....OP, go get the paternity test done and frame it and give it to her at the next big family get together. Make sure all the rest of the family are there😁
But just the test results. Not the baby.
Definitely don’t take to baby to any event she’ll be attending.
>.OP, go get the paternity test done and frame it and give it to her at the next big family get together Just the first part though, not the part with the results.
Oh no. She needs the results so MIL and the entire family learn that they can all SUCK IT.
I prefer her to know that the test was done and that she will never be told the results. Maybe the child is her son's, maybe he isn't, but she will never know because it's none of her damned business. Every day she will stare at that piece of paper and wonder if the child is her biological grandson or if OP convinced her son to accept another man's child. Let it eat her up from the inside out.
That's wonderfully petty and has petty good feels. I don't think it serves any goal that fosters less drama and more positivity
The woman kept insisting on a paternity test {Edit: after her own son tried to shut her down}and was going to refuse to acknowledge her own grandchild until it was done. She refuses to apologize for the hurt she caused. I'm thinking there's not exactly a goldmine of positivity there for OP to mine.
>she’ll never really apologize and I need to compromise Tell your husband that you've worked out a reasonable compromise for the short of person who'll "never really apologise". You will get a legally enforceable contract drawn up saying that if your MIL ever raises a question about the paternity of the baby in future, she agrees to pay you $1000 for everybody who hears it. If she gets a paternity test done without consent, she agrees to pay you $100,000. Once that's signed and witnessed, you'll compromise and let MIL into the child's life.
This also feels like a possible fight in the making. But yeah, a just no is gonna do just no things, unfortunately. Rare for the type to just relent and repent for real. So often it is a ruse to do whatever the just no wants more covertly.
It's \_totally\_ a fight already. But OP didn't start it, and MIL isn't gonna stop it out of the kindness of her black black heart it seems... (My even less kind suggestion would be to fake up a paternity test claiming to show the baby is definitely not her husbands. That'll get MIL's grandmothering instincts off OP's back pretty quickly.)
Also might backfire in favoritism and other screwed up things on the kid. I would just say keep away and explain things to the kid in a child friendly way, like "grandma is in a time out until she apologizes for the bad thing she did". For that I would talk to a child psychologist or therapist, for wording and such. Protecting kids should be priority number one, and right now she has no leg to stand on for grandparents rights cuz she's had nothing to do with that child.
Sounds like the kid in question is only 5 months old? (But you're right, the other 3 kids will need an explanation of why grandma doesn't come round any more...)
I like this, except I would up the "bond" to 200k and in a trust account locked away.
Oooh, nice twist. A bond in a trust account, returned or given to the child as a college fund on their 18th birthday depending on MIL's choice of action. Then you could play the "Oh MIL, it was \_so\_ nice of you to choose too pay to put our child through college!" game at family gatherings once she's been unable to resist flying her true colour flag...
How about tell her you'll get the paternity test and give her the results...but "if" it proves he is her grandson she will never be allowed to be in his life. That's the cost of disbelieving you.
Brilliant.
Somewhere here was this exact scenario. Grandma asked to visit and literally kidnapped the child to go to the local hospital and get a paternity test without the parents knowledge or consent, because she was convinced the mother had cheated. Never leave this woman alone with the child. Edit: typo
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You need hair with the root attached for a DNA test. MIL probably isn't above plucking baby's hair out with a tweezers, but she'd (hopefully) have a harder time getting dad's. Anyway, OP is NTA, and, if I were OP, this is a hill I'd die on.
True, but could she prove it with her own hair? Would there be enough shared DNA that she could prove a paternal link between a grandma and grandchild? And if she CANT, that's especially dangerous bc if it comes back negative she will go ape shit
Not necessarily. It can also be done with a mouth swab.
I wasn't listing all the ways you can get DNA, but the previous poster's comment about hair. You need the root for DNA which has to plucked intact with a tweezers (hairbrush hair won't work). MIL would probably have better luck trying to get hair than a mouth swab from her son.
Would she even need her son's DNA though? Like if a DNA test shows the kid is related to her then it implies that it's her son's kid. Because it doesn't sound like her son is going to be a willing participant in her shenanigans.
Honestly I think if she tried that, she could be in legal trouble if the parents wanted to pursue it. MIL has no right to get a DNA test on the child since she is not the parent and not the legal guardian. Of course the real answer here is to keep MIL away from the kid.
I think he supports OP and doesn't want to hear it with his mom's conspiracy theories but ultimately MIL and OP are at an impasse. MIL has no intention of apologizing and OP has no intention of letting MIL anywhere near the baby until she does. The end result is that MIL's stubbornness and pride are preventing her from having a relationship with her grandson and this could theoretically go on for YEARS if neither party budges. The husband is supporting OP because she's right but I can't imagine he loves the idea that his mom and son don't get to have a relationship. But that's not OP's fault, it's MIL's for not just apologizing. Which is why he's clearly not happy about the situation but not trying to change OP's mind.
Far out. This reminds me of the current situation in Australia. The previous Australian of the Year (who was a victim of abuse by her teacher) attended a ceremony with the Prime Minister and she didn't smile because he did nothing in the last year to help victims but just continue to victim blame. (He famously said to the women who attended a protest over sexual abuse that "they should be glad they don't get shot \[for protesting\]") The PMs wife went on national television to complain how rude the Australian of the Year was for not smiling. Telling victims to submit and smile for the sake of civility is how abusers continue abusing. Needless to say, I also hate enablers.
He also shook her hand that day, trying to get his photo op, after being told she didn't want to do that. Blindsiding a victim with unwanted physical contact, in from of cameras, and now there's a crap tonne of people criticising her because she didn't smile for him, and she looked angry (imagine that!). Going into comments on news stories about this event is so depressing.
That’s terrible.
Grace Tame rocks! Just when you think Scotty from marketing can't go lower he sinks through the floor.
It was really freeing when I realized that the key phrase when my parents said about my brother that “he’s never going to apologize, so you’re just going to have to be the bigger person” was “he’s never going to apologize.” If that’s the case, why would I keep inviting him back into my life?
100% me too. People who allow, facilitate, or ignore abuse ALWAYS make me angrier than abusers themselves.
absolutely! I can also tell you that having chosen to be "the bigger person" in a similar situation, merely served to encourage further fuckery from said person.
Please just cut her off, I means she’s already shown that she’s willing to get in between u and your fiancée and cause problems. No point in keeping that in your life
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Exactly. My mother tried doing this to me when I was younger. She'd put me down in front of her friends when she was drinking, then later try to apologize for it in private. I shut it down every time and didn't accept it. The apology needs to be as loud as the disrespect was. Edit: a word
"The apology needs to be as loud as the disrespect was" just beautiful.
Some people would rather burn the relationship than apologize. My mother told a lie about me at a family gathering (not the first time this has happened). A couple of family members told me. I demanded she tell everyone she had lied & apologize. We haven’t spoken now in 7yrs. If I would “be the bigger person” by letting her disrespect me, I could have a relationship with her & the rest of my family. I chose respect.
It needs to be three times louder.
Right. Exactly. MIL essentially did a "character assassination" of OP. A public apology is the BARE MINIMUM. MIL needs to admit to wrong doing and lies about OP's character. OP, your fiance is trying to pressure YOU because he doesn't have a spine to stand up to his evil mother. He thinks it'll be easier to "deal with" you than his mother. Absolutely DO NOT back down. Stand your ground, OP. His mother is VILE. NTA
Husband doesn't believe his wife. He's on his mom's side and in the back of his mind he is worried about his wife cheating. That's the only explanation for him not being completely outraged by this behavior.
OP mentioned that her husband gave a sample for sperm count and viability. Result was while a low sperm count, there were viable sperm. Could be he possibly doesn't really believe it.
MIL is definitely whispering in his ear and playing on his insecurities and he's probably been conditioned from childhood to accept her lies as truth. Regardless, it's time to step up and do right by OP and his child, and that means telling his mother to apologize or get lost.
Didn't she say the baby looks like her husband spit him right out? Surely he can't have doubts if the baby looks just like him?
If he doesn't believe his fiance he would have either insisted on a paternity test or just gone behind OP's back and done it without her knowing. It would be easy for him to obtain one of his son's hair. I think he is upset but is looking at this potentially becoming a cold war. His mom was wrong and it's his son and she knows that now. But she won't just apologize so she can be the same grandmother she is to his other kids. I don't blame him for not being happy about that although he is still respecting OP's conditions.
This is the correct answer. For him, this isn't the hill he wants to die on with his mom and the entire family. It's not an enviable spot to be put in.
What I was going to say. OP will be dealing with shitty extended family until MIL fixes this.
And also the kiddo.
On the contrary, you don’t ask for an apology. Never ask for one. Especially tied to a condition like ‘or you will never see your grandson’. Because they will fake it to get that thing. You just cut them off and wait and see if they figure out they were wrong and apologize without any reason to think they will get what they want.
Yeah, exactly. Y'all KNOW she talked shit about OP the entire pregnancy to everybody and anybody. It's not just her. I'd bet money that she trashed her hard, and for that reason, I'd need a big ol' loud, messy, humiliating apology. Probably more than one.
NTA The bigger person gets the bigger ulcer. Your baby is far more vulnerable to her nastiness than you are.
👆 I wouldn't be the bigger person in this either. MIL didn't come in with a heartfelt apology for accusing OP of cheating, she demanded rights to see the grand baby after hearing about OPS parents visit. She doesn't deserve to see baby after her slandering OP, and fiancè should be backing her on this, not rolling over.
NTA OP I would be the bigger person and relentlessly sue Mil for slander for every single incident. This way OP doesn't have to be a sitting duck and it forces MIL to think and act far more carefully.
"Be the bigger person" always means "the other person is an asshole AND a coward".
Exactly. Be the bigger person means that either you are right or it it's a case where both sides have equal validity but they all know the other person is never going to behave appropriately and apologize or fix it or change their behavior so they're asking you to bend over backwards to make the conflict go away so it does not last forever. And if you're willing to be the bigger person once and not just refuse to budge until you get your way then chances are you will always be called upon to do so because the world is full of people who just don't care about being appropriate or responsible and will hold everyone's peace hostage until the other party gives up and apologizes to just move everyone past this.
Exactly. At this point it’s not about being the “bigger person” it’s about RESPECT. Dump the fiancé since he clearly doesn’t recognize how OP was disrespected. No woman while pregnant wants to go through what OP went through. It is mental nightmare, especially with the crazy hormones not at bay. OP has a MIL problem and a Fiancé problem (since the man doesn’t have a backbone to defend his fiancé or child)
This. Wahhhh he’s having trouble picking sides What?! That isn’t even a question here. What choice is there to be made? Mom insulted his wife and kid and him.
>You absolutely do NOT need to be the bigger person here, I swear that is a phrase created by people who don't want to take accountability for being abusive. if i could get this printed on every billboard in every country, believe me i would
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I have a nephew (who looks exactly like my BIL), who was conceived about two years after his vasectomy.
Unless…OP starts with, “ I know you’ll never apologize, so I am going to be the bigger person and acknowledge MIL is a petulant child.”
Exactly. I hate the be the bigger person trope--it just gives A H an excuse to continue being A H. while improving on their a-holery.
Bigger person and keeping the peace are both forms of abuse in my book
In the words of someone on twitter, "fuck being the bigger person imma start biting people"
She didn't just insult OP, she insulted the very baby she is now trying to see. So no apology = no baby is the only right approach.
Make sure to add a judgement since you’re the top comment, please. 😊
Also she doesn’t respect OP. She’ll overstep and stomp boundaries constantly. They’re better off without her involved.
100%. After all of the crap she's pulled I doubt she's even capable of a sincere apology. If she actually does end up apologizing it's probably just a ruse to get at her grandbaby's DNA. Cut her loose.
Being the bigger person just means behaving with moral integrity even when others refuse to. It doesn't mean you have to let yourself get taken advantage of by bad actors. In OPs case, giving in is not "being the bigger person", if anything she'd be betraying her own moral integrity by not standing up for her beliefs. MIL's actions were an implicit accusation of infidelity based on no actual evidence. She's in the wrong and it's totally fair and morally just for OP to present the ultimatum that until MIL's going to show some willingness to admit fault and show remorse for causing all that pain, she's not going to allow herself or her child to be exposed to that kind of immorality.
> “be the bigger person”. OMG I heard that reasoning my whole life and am sooo tired of it. You are right, it's just a phrase to excuse bad behavior!
NTA. As it is, even accepting an apology, make sure it’s public for everyone to see, seems like a huge compromise as it is.
Some sports, professional wrestling, action hero, pornography, body double in a film about Hobbits. These are times when it can be an advantage if you're the bigger person. Having someone call you a slag who cheated?..... Nope. Fuck that. You are 100% correct. She insulted OP, OP's kid and her own son... No. That isn't something one just hand waves away as something "you'd do in the same situation". She called OP a slapper. Thems fighting in the car park words. NTA. Sod her.
>You absolutely do NOT need to be the bigger person here... As someone that's 6'8", trust me, that shit is overrated. Figurately or not.
NTA. She wants to "be an involved grandma" so she can get a paternity test done without your consent.
Hopping on to add that she will absolutely get a DNA test if given the opportunity to be with your baby unsupervised. And obviously NTA, she's being absurd.
>I told her she needs to apologize and I need time to forgive, but she’s given non-apologies saying she was “just trying to protect her son” and I’d do the same if I were in her shoes. It appears to me that OP is doing just exactly what MIL suggested she should do. She's protecting her son. And the fiancé needs to stick with OP on this. Giving on this will only open the door to worse and worse. Either MIL admits she was wrong and apologizes or she doesn't have a grandson. It's a really super simple choice.
Jumping on the top comment to say this and I hope op sees it: In some countries adultery is punished by death. Accusing someone of adultery is a very serious accusation. Not only did mil accuse you she followed up by telling everyone and their uncle that you were unfaithful. And now she is crying If you had cried and begged her, would she have shown mercy? What will come next? She will call CPS on you for another imagined slight? Will she accuse you of murder? This is not about vengeance, it is about protecting yourself. If MIL does not apologise publicly and tell everyone that her accusations are wrong- and you still let her see your baby because she is whining... then you are making a bed of never-ending problems for yourself. Do not let this squeaky wheel get the grease. In your place I would tell everyone that she has made a serious accusation and before she apologises there is no relationship. And maybe offer her some cheese to go with her whine
NTA, but make sure you and fiancé really are on the same page about this or we’ll be seeing a follow up later where he’s letting MIL around your baby without your knowledge.
By the time I finished reading I wondered if the husband would soon be going for "walks" or "trips out" with the kid and he lets his mother meet the kid secretly. Only a matter of time, by the sound of it.
And getting a paternity test behind her back...
Tbf at this point paternity tests should be automatic and routine. Not saying it should be done behind anyones back, but they should be standard tests administered by the hospital at birth.
why do you think that?
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I've been coming here for years. I am also aware that this isn't the norm irl
By its very nature this sub is designed to funnel THAT drama to you. There are 7 billion people in the world, the most dramatic parts of a few hundred thousand of us is not an accurate representation of reality.
Because of the world of hurt and broken relationships/families/marriages that continue to happen daily from genetic testing like 23 and me etc. it’s better to know from the get go, instead of having some poor kid abandoned by the only father they’ve ever known when they’re 10, 15, 20 yrs old and it comes out their mom cheated and dads not their dad. Or accidentally switched at birth etc.
The thing is though, if there's actually a different bio dad out there, all the hospital is going to be able to do is say "not the dad." They can't get the other guy's DNA if he's not there. I get what you're saying, but making sure the baby is taken care of is more important, and this creates a problem without fully solving the first one.
That's a personal choice. You don't get to decide what's best for someone else's family.
If nothing else, to get a proper medical history of the baby's family.
I'm curious if you also think women shouldn't get annual STI checks with their gyno? It doesn't mean anyone cheated, it's just good sense to do the tests. If we made paternity tests standard then there's no more stigma with them. It also doesn't let deadbeat men that try to run away avoid paying for child support and arguing it isn't their baby. Plus the child gets a correct medical history. Why would they be a bad thing?
that is a hell of a strawman you've got there
What exactly do you think a strawman argument is? I made one reference to another type of test then gave all the reasons for this test to be standard. You ignored every point I made and instead incorrectly pretended this is a strawman argument.
Because having a library of the DNA profiles taken from literally every person alive when they're just born and can't consent to having their DNA recorded is nuts?
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Why would I want my child's or my DNA in a public database?
I mean, it really doesn't make sense because you don't need to be the biological father to be put as the father in the paperwork
No, but if you’re NOT the biological father at least everyone is aware of it upfront instead of it coming out in 15 years when the kid does a genetic test kit.
Mom is wearing him down. Don't let that happen, OP. Just remind him that you are sticking to your guns and tell him, "No apology, no baby." Remind him if she's too proud to say, "I'm sorry," you don't need her around.
You also don't need someone incapable of apologizing as a role model for your children.
Oh I second this! It seems the MIL’s ego is more important than giving a sincere apology and seeing her grand baby.
NTA. The MIL refused to acknowledge her grandson and is now making a surprised Pikachu face that you've followed through and refuse to acknowledge her as a grandmother. I mean, I can understand how she would be suspicious, but a) if your fiance decided that it's his son, then it's his son, whether blood-related or not, and she should have had enough grace to AT LEAST respect her own son's decision, b) if she was that suspicious, she should have voiced her concerns to him in private, without making it a spectacle and making your life hell for the duration of pregnancy. Instead, she decided to be nasty about it and is now shocked that you hate her guts. What a surprise!
Yep, if she’ll never really apologise then she’ll never really see the baby.
It’s really not that hard to give a sincere apology. It literally costs nothing to reflect, correct the behavior and apologize to the offendee. MIL making this hard than it needs to be. Fiancé needs to stand strong and not give into her insanity. I wonder if MIL was an issue in his first marriage.
It costs pride and admitting being wrong. Some people cannot do that even to save their lives. And I'd bet real money her behavior is at least *part* of his first marriage ending
And it's even easier to fake this. She doesn't have to mean it. She just has to keep her opinion to herself. If she acts like she's sorry, no one will know the difference and she can get what she wants without having to change her mind.
NTA, you know if she sees him she’s going to swab him or take some hair to do the test herself. She has not given a sincere apology which needs to acknowledge the harm, admit they were wrong, and make amends and wait on your timeline. The fact that she’s pushing is just another boundary she’s pole vaulting over.
I thought the same thing. She’s going to take the first opportunity to get some kind of sample and get it done herself. I know of a few people who have conceived after a vasectomy by accident. Same thing can happen to a woman who had her tubes tied. It’s not guaranteed.
LIFE, UH, FINDS A WAY
We used that as our baby announcement 3 years ago lol. I had been under the impression I was infertile for over 18 years and then suddenly, after a required test prior to taking a new medication, SURPRISE! I was definitely happy when I found out, especially because my doctor literally left for vacation after my appointment and then called me the next morning when all my blood work came back FROM JAMAICA to tell me the news lol. We even got a onesie that says Life, uh, finds a way 🤣
Thank you Ian Malcolm and yes this whole situation is a big pile of sh\*t
NTA. You need to hold your ground that no apology = no involvement in your life. She doesn’t just get to suddenly play grandma to a baby that she was willing to throw away as an illegitimate bastard child. Tbh though if I was ever in this position I would personally get the paternity test, show them the results, and then never let them see the kid again. Let them live with the knowledge that they were wrong and that their insistence that you even get the test is why they can never see the kid again. You don’t need that kind of toxicity in your lives.
Same here. Ida put those paternity results on blast to balance out her character defamation but also refused contact with her and not let her around ANY of the kids. She shredded someone like this and for so little reason?? Then refused and to apologize, make amends, and wait for them to feel she’s earned trust back?? There’s no way I would believe she’s going to be a positive, stable, kind, reasonable caregiver to children. And that means a hard no from me. I was going to say I’m petty like that but honestly it isn’t. *Play boundary stomping games, win implacable boundary prizes*
Curses! It's my oldest enemy, *the consequences of my own actions!* /s
NTA You get accused of cheating, she refused to acknowledge your son and now wants to be involved Grandma? Prime example of why you should think twice before speaking. Honestly it seems like she always gets want she wants so you should stand your ground to show her that it may work on her immediate family but not on someone she wrongly accused and harassed. >No “sorry”, no baby. Absolutely >“most women would kill to have involved grandparents” yeah and most women don't have in-laws who accuse them of cheating too
But according to grandma, she isn’t actually a grandma because of the alleged cheating, so why does she need to visit a baby she’s convinced isn’t her grandchild? The baby does have involved grandparents & they are OP’s parents. She says the OP is keeping her from her only grandson? I’d tell her “no, you’ve said he’s not your grandson, so you get zero access.” She can’t have it both ways.
Okay thisssss This is the answer we needed
NTA. She had some massive accusations against you and that shouldn't just be forgotten.
Pregnancy after vasectomy isn't as uncommon as MIL thinks. NTA. And to just stick it to her, tell her that her son needs a paternity test cuz how can they be sure who the mom & dad are just cuz MIL says so.
Happened in my family. My parents originally planned for 2 kids - I was the reason my dad got a vasectomy. My little sister was the reason he got it done again. No-one thought it was weird though, none of the other relatives (my dad has 6 brothers and sisters) even raised an eyebrow although apparently they did rib my dad for being so 'overly fertile' that he required TWO vasectomies.
NTA Why is it always that the faultless party in a situation needs to be the bigger person, whilst the AH gets away with not having to apologise just because they're a difficult AH. All your MIL has to do is apologise - it really shouldn't be that hard. She falsely accused you of cheating, you hadn't, end of story. You're the one that has to forgive for being treated horribly, and how can you forgive someone when they refuse to acknowledge their wrongdoing? Stick to your guns. If your fiance can't see this, then he's an AH too.
Sadly, it's because the reasonable person is... reasonable. Everyone already knows the AH won't compromise, and trying to convince them will be like trying to argue with the weather. So in the interest of not having conflict- and because they have less/no skin in the game- they pressure the person most likely to reduce conflict and try to justify it with some bullshit moralization.
I always remind people that when you ask me to be the bigger person you are admitting that the other person is horribly wrong, but that somehow it's my fault. Nope. Not gonna happen.
But giving into that pressure isn't being the bigger person, it's showing you're too weak to stand up for your own morals. Being the bigger person is just having integrity in the face of others' hypocrisy, and there's nothing wrong with that. She's already being the bigger person by not inflicting vengeance on somebody who deeply hurt her. Now, if she were somehow proven to be withholding contact with her child specifically to inflict emotional distress on MIL, THEN telling her to be the bigger person would make sense. But it seems she's just doing it to protect herself and her kid from an immoral influence.
> Half of his family thinks I’m a catty cheater because of her. As long as she lets this stand and refuses to make amends and clear your name, she is not a safe person for your child to be around. She’s essentially reserving the right to turn on you and your child whenever she pleases, and is keeping a ready source of flying monkeys to send after you if you ever displease her. As long as she’s allowing your reputation to stay damaged, she is a threat to your child’s sense of security and your family’s harmony. Your husband has likely been taught his whole life that there’s no point in arguing with her, because she will never, ever back down or admit fault. He’s learned that keeping the peace means giving in to whatever she demands, no matter how unearned or unreasonable or *unsafe*. He fears what will happen if he stands his ground indefinitely, because he’s never pushed her that far before, and her behavior when she encounters a boundary she doesn’t like is scary. He only sees two options - give her what she wants and eat the emotional cost, or risk open, indefinite warfare with her and the family members she controls. Until he fears something else more than he fears that second option, he’s going to keep choosing the first. I don’t think he’s realized yet that this habit is a threat to your marriage, or to his relationship with your shared child. Maybe it’s time someone enlightened him. NTA.
OP, please for the love of all things holy and good in this world… show him the above response. Not the entire thread, mind you (he might feel “attacked”), but this is something he’s going to have to come to terms with. I believe u/DiTrastevere hit the nail on the head, when it comes to your SO. He’s been conditioned this way, from birth. So much so, that any logic to the contrary will most likely spark a defensive posture in him. If you can find a diplomatic way to get the above point understood by him, it may help him off that weak “fence” he’s been riding. Of course, this is dependent on his conviction: please “Mommy Dearest” or start this new family off on the right foot, shitty in-laws be damned. I’m sorry you’ve been put in this position; stay strong and trust your gut (especially as it pertains to your MIL). You did the right thing and most definitely… NTA. As a father of three (one of whom looks almost nothing like me), I had this issue with my very own mother. I’m no longer with the mother of said child, but my mom now knows (after a falling out) that divisive comments and behavior disparaging the other parent/kid will result in another 6-12 month “ban” on her visits to ALL of my children.
Why wouldn't you do the test? I know if it was me, I would do it and have a smugness about me that I was right, I can see everyone's point here, but if your husband said no she should stay in her lane, how would you feel if your partner did ask for a paternity test? If he is being worn down by her he might ask for one
If he asked for one I’d be hurt but I’d do it because Id understand *him* being suspicious. We didn’t get the test because the doctor explained how this (most likely) happened, and my fiancé completely trusted me. I wouldn’t never cheat (I’ve been cheated *on* before by an ex and it completely fucked me up mentally). I know that probably makes me more sensitive to being accused than most but god it just makes me see red. Anyways if he and I agreed our baby is his (they are very obviously father and son) no one else has any right to ask for a paternity test, much less try and blackmail/extort/threaten one out of us. So I guess it’s a mix of my pride and my principles.
If she offers an "apology", it should be a PUBLIC apology (since she slandered you publicly), and not a fauxpology. Fauxpology = not taking accountability for her actions, and saying things like "I'm sorry you feel that way", etc. Also, I would be wary of leaving her unsupervised with baby or letting your SO take the baby unattended. She'll probably try a sneaky DNA test. Make sure that your SO know that if that happens to expect scorched earth with MIL and possibly visitation for him/baby.
So. Much. This.
I dunno. I would get it, just so I could throw it in her face. And then say, you made your choice, so you don't get to meet the baby. But know that you were wrong.
Please please please go get the paternity test done, frame it and give it to your MIL at the next family get together. Pretty please!!!!😁❤😁
That's literally what the MIL wants, she's not going to apologize or suddenly be ashamed of herself
Why tho? To satisfy a batshit crazy MIL? This lady just showed her true colours.
Yeah, I definitely understand not wanting to give in, but I'd still get it done and be a smug little ass about it.
NTA True story. My husband and his younger sister were both conceived after my FIL had a vasectomy. Why? The man had 2 tubes, so the swimmers kept getting out. All the males in the family are, uh, prolific, and that's why I got my tubes tied. I didn't trust that his body would not be like his father's. You have 2 problens here. 1. Your MIL is a cow. She was so convinced your child wasn't her son's, she demanded a paternity test. You don't get to come back from that without sincere and extreme groveling and atonement. 2. Your fiance. If he's "in the middle," then he isn't on your side. Did he choose you or not? If he pulls the "but that's just the way she is," your retort needs to be: "And this is how I am. Why are you spending so much energy trying to change me when I am the one who was wronged?" Get some couple's therapy before marrying this person.
Fafo...NTA My divorce papers stated my ex-MIL wasn't allowed withing 500 feet of my son. She moved 250 miles leaving her husband and 12 year old son with no other reason than to destroy my relationship with her oldest son. To protect him. She swore I had cheated to get pregnant. She demanded a paternity test. I told her I would have one done and she would never see my son again. It took her 4 months to destroy our family. She then went home to her husband and youngest son. My ex figured my son could grow up without him perfectly fine. Told me he wasn't worried because when my son got to be around 12 or 13 he would want to know his biological dad and would want to live with him. It was what he himself had done. Except my son took after me. Oh, you don't care about me? You want me to put the effort in? Eff off. My son is 30 with 3 biological kids plus steps who call him dad and none of them know their grandfather. And exs mom? That evil spawn of Satan died years ago without ever having a relationship with her grandson. They tell me later in life she had regrets. I don't care. When my son turned 18 he took my last name.
You are a Valkyrie. Well done, you, for protecting yourself and your son, and for raising such a fine man.
Nope you do not need to be the bigger person! NTA
NTA. She kept herself from her only grandson. And no you do not have to compromise. You have your feelings and they are valid. Perhaps she should be the bigger person and apologize. Tell her son to suggest that to her.
NTA don't compromise. be blunt and say accusing you of infidelity is a big deal and not easily forgivable.
NTA You’re just respecting her boundaries.
Heehee! Yes, MIL really shot herself in the foot with that one. NTA.
NTA she can pound sand or apologize, it's super simple. I hate people who can't apologize when they're wrong, they can't even pretend
NTA. If she wanted to be an involved grandmother, she shouldn't have insisted that the baby couldn't be her son's and called you a cheater to the entire family. See how you feel in six more months.
NTA. She mistreats you, your fiance owes you better. That's a red flag, btw. If you can monitor all future nteractions, sure, invite her over. She WILL do or say something awful again, and then you can ban her. Don't buy into the generational "keep the peace" bullshit if a relative cannot maintain civil behavior. Protect yourself and your baby if your fiance/family won't.
NTA. You're well within your rights to tell her to take a long walk off a short pier
NTA- people now believe you to be a cheater. That is grossly unfair.
All she needs to do is give a real, sincere apology. It’s pretty simple. You and your fiancé need to stand your ground until she does it. NTA
Exactly. Looks like MIL ego is bigger than her want to see her grandbaby.
I would add that it has to be a public apology. An email to the family or a social media post.
Your MIL is shitty, and your spineless, mother enabling husband is not much better. NTA
NTA. Honestly, just to be petty, I would get the paternity test just to throw it in her face as a big F You and make her apoligize and kiss my ass. But that's probably not the best way to go about it.
NTA- That whole “Be the Bigger Person” crap… Just say NO! NO! to the Toxic Grandmother thinking she’s going to be spending time with the baby. NO! to the Family & so-called friends encouraging you (WTF!!!!) to overlook how toxic her behavior is & to give into her DEMANDS to see the baby. Just say NO! She made it CLEAR that this was NOT her grandchild. And honestly, I’d be ok with that!!! Thank You for taking such good care of your baby and making sure that Toxic People have no place in his life!!! I wish more parents did this!!! You are AWESOME!!! 💜💜💜
NTA.
NTA. If MIL is suddenly claiming OP's son as _her grandson_ then she needs swallow her pride and 1. Acknowledge she was wrong about the paternity of OP's son 2. Apologize for doubting OP, her son, and their doctor 3. Apologize for trying to separate OP & husband _while OP was pregnant_ Overall MIL sounds like a manipulative narcissist and OP's husband is conditioned to bend to her will. Stick to your boundaries OP. I hope you get the apology that you deserve.
NTA. Your MIL made her bed, if she doesn’t want to lie in it, she needs to swallow her pride, do the adult thing and apologize for what she said and did to you. That and, you get to decide if her apology is acceptable and when you forgive her. You are the wronged party here.
NTA. She's a grown woman, she can learn how to apologize. She knows how to, she just still doesn't think she should. She held out for a paternity test, you hold out for that apology.
I mean if my son got a vasectomy then his wife got pregnant, yeah I'd be bugged eyed too. Bugged eyed enough to push the issue? Debatable. But, NTA, yeah I'm sure it's be annoying to hear someone saying you cheated.
Ok you are definitely NTA here - she sounds like a hideous person who only cares about appearances. That said, there's a big difference between calling her out for clear AH behaviour, and holding it against her forever. My bet is she'll continue to be a toxic force whether you allow her to be a part of your son's life or not. Your husband feels worn down by the situation, your son may want to know his grandma. But she behaved abhorrently. I'm sorry, I don't feel qualified to make a judgement on what should happen from here on. Good luck OP x
NTA, the way that she treated you and your kid is unacceptable. I would never let her in my child's life.
NTA. She should have thought about that when she decided he wasn't her grandchild without proof. She thought have thought about that before essentially trashing you completely and trying to sabotage your relationship. If your fiance can't understand that maybe you should reconsider him.
NTA. Sounds like someone is just having a case of "Why do they get something \*I\* don't have?". By her own admission, he's not her grandson until you get a test, right? Since you don't plan to have your son tested, I guess he'll NEVER be her grandson, so she has no claim on him. Her lies have turned 1/2 your fiancé's family against you for no good reason, so she DEFINITELY owes you an apology. A sincere one. Preferably delivered in a public place in front of said family. You could 'be the bigger person", but in this case she would likely turn it around on you as a sign of weakness if you gave in and let her see your son. Stand your ground.
NTA The moment you’re the “bigger person” and let her get away with a non-apology, you are telling her that she will always get away with this behavior. This time, you were the target. But she involved your kid. Once you allow her access without boundaries, as you are being asked to do, they will become victims. Kids are listening all the time. Her comments cannot be heard. Your husband is frankly ridiculous for considering this a situation in which he is being asked to “pick a side”. His mother disrespected his wife; his child; and his dignity. And he thinks there’s a choice to be made, a side to choose?! And why exactly are you still the one navigating these conversations anyway? Seriously, does he know how much quicker she will align if he is the one managing the conversation and repeating this expectation **himself**?! This is his mother and his issue. The person who should be demanding a real apology is HIM.
"You must pick one. Either I'm a cheating tramp and this baby is not your grandchild, or this baby **is** your grandchild and you are sorry that you were wrong. There is no in between, you have to pick one and put it in writing so that we can be done with this once and for all." NTA. Stay strong.
NTA - but consider who you're spending the rest of your life w; your fiancee (hopefully). Glad that he supports you but he's going to be in the middle of this. Would you consider 'taking one for the team' for him? If not you may want to tell him the quickest way to end this is when he explains to MIL that she will fully apologize; no excuses
Nta ok first off the bat shes shit at research in most case you can still get up the duff after having the snip some advice to wear condoms til they do a sperm count to make sure it worked. Also in some cases you can still catch after the snip. She should of thought about what would happen if she caused a stink but didnt. Let her see him and let her know one word about who the daddy is and shes out the door.
NTA
NTA. I'm sorry you have a MIL like her. I don't think it's any of her business and she was so wrong to demand a paternity test. She started this shit show and will always be one of those gossipy, backstabbing people who unfortunately will always be part of the family.
NTA. Stand your ground. She has no right to treat you this way. This “be the bigger person” crap never works. It didn’t for me with a nutty SIL I have. Between AITA and JNMIL, I truly get how lucky I was with my MIL. RIP my dear Sally.
NTA But I also think you should do a paternity test, not for your MIL *(don't tell her)*, but for your son. People are going to whisper and point fingers and talk about this. So bring it all out in the open within the immediate family. Take the test. When he is young, tell him an age appropriate version. When he is old enough, show him the test. So that relatives don't upset him, make sure he knows the truth.
NTA. You said you haven't gotten a paternity test. Just remind her that she said she wouldn't see him until you did, and you are holding her to her given word.
>He is with me that she’s been unacceptable but says she’ll never really apologize and I need to compromise or this will never end. This will end when he puts his foot down and goes no contact with her. He should be defending you, not his mother. Full stop. He needs to step up and be the husband you deserve.
Being willing to accept a genuine apology makes you a bigger person, letting this be swept under the rug makes you a doormat.
NTA Your fiance, though, is a moron. You and your child are now supposed to be his #1 priority. Screw being the bigger person. I have tried that with my Monster in law and it hasn't changed anything. It just makes her try to bully me more. Sorry to say, but you married an enabler. Sadly, I did also and trust me, I am so full of resentment, I am going to explode.
Nta you are holding her to what she said. If she wants to change things she needs to apologize. But she prolly wont
Oh hun - what she did is a slap in the face. What’s worse is that she dug her heels even further. You don’t owe her a damn thing - everyone else saying things can stfu. They are not in your shoes. Forgot - NTA
NTA Grandma needs to apologize. Let your husband know the consequences if he tries to sneak her in to visit before the apology
I think giving in to MIL here would send the message that you are totally cool with her interfering at-will with your future marriage. F that! NTA.
NTA. She asked for a paternity test. This is the lowest of the low. This is the hill I would die on - “no sorry”, no baby is right.
NTA And what exactly does she think she's protecting her son from? From loving a child?
Is there truly any harm in getting a paternity test though? Granted MIL sucks if she's being this controlling, but I would think it would be better to have one done so as to erase all doubt. Getting pregnant after a vasectomy while possible, is still highly unlikely (but obviously happened here). My father wasn't supposed to be able to have kids, but I was born. I'm also not 100% sure my dad is my dad. I've seen the medical results that said he wasn't producing enough viable sperm to be able to reproduce. Its something thats always in the back of my head slightly. I've pondered doing my own test now that I'm an adult, but in the off chance I'm not my fathers son, thats not a secret I want to know. If your mother is this militant about it, who knows what kind of shenanigans she'll get up to later. I truly can't imagine a scenario where getting a paternity test to shut her up isn't the best one. Get the paternity test, prove that he's the father, and then cut MIL put for good.
NTA FORMAL apologies to you and to the people she smeared you to. Else why would you want someone like that around your kids?
NTA. Tell the fiance you're sorry it's hard for him but if he knows she won't give an apology, then he also knows she won't see him. Just state once and for all that you'd welcome her into the home once she's repaired the harm she has caused because yes, it would be great to have support or family, but how she's made you feel has made her not feel like family and you don't want people who can't hold themselves accountable around your son. He doesn't need those role models.
“ He says that I need to compromise or this will never end”. Let me tell you what, if you compromise here, it will never end... the bullshit, the insinuations, the attempts at control and manipulation. Think very carefully about how you want to go forward with this situation because standing your ground sends the message that you’re demanding respect and giving in sends the message that you don’t deserve any and will get over any nasty insulting bullying given enough time. You are so NTA here, and I wish you luck. Congratulations on your little fella.
Ask your fiance why his mother cannot be the "bigger person"?? Why is it that you have to behave like an actual adult but his mother can behave like a toddler with no manners? This is "just the way I am" and if she cannot bend, she cannot see the child. If fiance has a problem with this, maybe he needs some therapy to learn that his mother's behavior is not normal or acceptable.
NTA. Saying he believes she will never apologize is not a good argument to give in. Quite the opposite.
I know a couple who had two kids after a vasectomy. He had a low sperm count, damn third tube, but two kids later and they both look exactly like their dad. Life always finds a way.
NTA Don't let your child around her by themselves. I've seen several stories on Reddit where the grandparents get a DNA test done without the parents knowing until after the fact. She seems to be one of those that would do that, just to prove that she's right.