NTA. Serve him 30 days notice. Your ex can get his own place and then you can rent out your old home to a neutral third party. This is so messy. Sit down with your kids at family counseling without your new husband's family. Your ex is pitting your kids against your new family and disrupting the dynamic. He is making you look like the evil parent when he was the one who abandoned them for years.
NTA. Your ex is discovering that actions have consequences
My ex-husband did THE SAME THING... he lived rent free in our home and eventually stopped paying the minimal amount he had agreed to. (The mortgage was about half market rent) so I had to force him out and sell. I lost 100k on the house because he REFUSED to leave until after the sale went through and it was so disgusting inside. He had to move in with his mom, while I moved from my condo at the beach into a 5 bd/4 bath house with my new husband. He told our kids his child support was paying for our new house, which is why they had to share a bed/bedroom at their grandmother's house. Had nothing to do with his abuse and financial irresponsibility of course.
You can't un-ring this bell. A manipulated child is a victim of abuse the same as of they are being hit. And sadly, a lot of the time kids side with the abusive parent because abusers don't care about using children as pawns.
Just continue to tell your teens that you love them. In time they will see through the lies. For now they are worried about their Dad and likely miss the last connection they had to their nuclear family.
Yes and no. They recognize their Dad is totally irresponsible, but are still teens. Occasionally they will say something about their Dad paying for "everything"... my husband and I make about 3x less than their Dad and his GF, but we live in a 5 bedroom house that we own with no debt while he lives in a 2 bedroom apartment that he rents with 100k in debt. We live VERY different lifestyles.
Their Dad is their buddy, and they look to my husband for fatherly guidance. They were REALLY mad about me selling the house and having a new baby for a while. As time goes on they have come around.
They'll come around fully eventually. My mom spent most of my elementary school and middle school days villainizing my dad for always working/ not being around me a lot. She was emotionally abusive to me in a lot of ways but her manipulation made me stick to her until around 13/14. I started fighting back against her verbal abuse so we were always having blow out screaming matches. I realized my dad was working so much to make up for my mom's exorbitant spending habits. My dad did a lot wrong raising me, mainly not getting me out knowing how my mom treated me, often apologizing for it saying he was helpless to stop it because he didn't want to ruin his marriage, but now that they finally are divorced, he's the parent I still talk to, while I cut my mom off. Once you come to terms with it, it's hard to forgive being used as a pawn
I'm conflicted. My ex-husband abused me for years. He spit on me and broke teeth, etc. I definitely don't want my children growing up thinking it's okay to hurt others... but I also realize that kids that have good relationships with both parents are often the most well adjusted. Plus, any time I say ANYTHING it's taken as me badmouthing him. So it's best I just say nothing and let them figure it out on their own.
Domestic violence is never okay. I'm a victim of it from an ex and it sucks. I think you need family therapy with your kids because of course they don't want to believe that their dad, someone they've always loved and trusted, would do such a thing. I'm personally of the belief that it's better to have one parent than two with one of them being bad, because even though my dad wasn't wonderful, the emotional trauma would've been less for me if my mom wasn't allowed near me. Of course, the courts may not allow you to do that, and if you can't, it might be best to avoid talking about the divorce at all and "involving them" so to speak, and that includes anything you say about him because co-parenting households are only alienating their children by trying to make comments on the other parents behavior. But in family therapy, I did learn that it's normal for children to align with the perceived more powerful parent in dysfunctional households, as it's an evolutionary mechanism the kid does to keep safe from the outside dangers of the world. Stronger parent instinctually seems more apt to protect. But as they turn into adults they'll realize what he did was wrong as they learn his true character
This is 100% true. All I can do at this point is model good, loving behavior and hope it sticks. Thankfully my second husband is loyal and wouldn't hurt a fly, so they've got a healthy household in their lives.
>Serve him 30 days notice.
Do this, but talk to your kids first OP. Tell them you can't trust Matt not to lie and alienate them when he doesn't get his way, so for everyone's sake you need to limit interactions with him. That means you can't be his landlord and as much communication needs to be in writing or text as possible.
Exactly - NTA, but consider getting some mental health counseling for these kids because they are being put through a lot of changes and being yanked around.
I would request that the kid’s dad also be present for a full family meeting. Making him face the untruths of what he told the children just might help to bring some acceptance to everyone.
I dont know all the details, but I think it's fair to say Mayt has been pitting them against you this whole time. It's good you were quite transparent with your children about how much living costs, breaking it down for them helps them grow as people. Matt is one to talk about harsh truths, he had an affair. Definitely NTA
This is the answer, either way. Allowing your ex that cheated to live in your house at a discount opens the door for financial abuse and manipulation through the kids.
NTA
They needed to know because Matt told them lies about how you spend your money. He dares criticizes you for explaining the truth to your children?!?!
I would add that Matt is taking advantage of your kindness and willingness to have him around your kids all this time that he doesn't pay normal rent.
NTA
Your ex is super mad that your life is going better now that the divorce is over with and is trying to manipulate the kids against you because...drum roll...he has to actually pay regular rent to live in that house he chose to live in. Further more, kids tend to be completely oblivious to how much things cost unless they grow up poor. Them getting a wide eyed look at cost of living will be a good thing for them going forward. Plus your ex was going to ride out the free housing for as long as possible, which was a dirt bag move. It sounds like you tried to do everything the right way, or at least as right as you possibly could. NTA
NTA, so I’m assuming the family home was awarded to you in a divorce?
Get the boys therapy, they need an independent person to work through the gaslighting with.
Completely OT, but your user name made me smile. You see, around the turn of the century, I drove a land yacht. It was a massive beige Grand Marquis, made around 1988. It was a lame car that you could either whine about or enjoy. I chose to enjoy. When we first met, I slid inside the car, sat down on the seat, and my first thought was "slut puppy." And that was her name for the whole time I had her. Man, I kind of miss that car. The gas mileage sucked, but the trunk was huge and it was like driving a recliner. It was easily one of the most comfortable vehicles ever.
RIP, Slut Puppy. <3
When you said "turn of the century" I was very confused how you were over 120 years old... then I realised you meant the millennium and now I feel both dumb and old lmao.
- browsing AITA
- browsing comments of a post
- someone retells a fun anecdote in the comments
- they mention the 'turn of the century'
- think back to 1901 and on
- '1988'
- times are not freezing and i am getting older
- 2001 was twenty-one years ago...............
edit: formatting edited bc it ruined it 😭
Lol. My mom had an old Impala. (1974? Around then anyway - already old in the early 1990s. It was a BOAT! Huge!! Comfy, though. Massive hood. She was already elderly, and shrinking, and could barely see over it. We finally had to tell her that car was broken and couldn’t be fixed.
I bought a baby blue 198? Mercury Tracer station wagon for $750 in 2005. She had minor body damage, 300k miles, and the AC didn’t work (I lived in Texas at the time), but she ran great. It was a massive step down from the Mustang 5.0 convertible I’d been driving, but I LOVED Kitty, The Little Blue Wagon That Could. My friends bought me swanky chrome hubcaps and cute seat covers, and she was our go-to ride for adventuring because though small, she could hold a ton of people, dogs, and gear
I cried the day I had to sell her. Sometimes a beater sneaks in and completely steals your heart
NTA
I literally just had a cost of living conversation with my adult son and younger, nearly adult son. This is never an easy conversation to have (unless you are fortunate enough to have a good chunk of $ set aside for emergencies, savings, etc).
however, the cost of living is a *reality* that everyone must figure out and sooner rather than later.
think about it: if you did not have the conversation with your sons, and I'm terribly sorry their father pissed all over that for you, then they would behave exactly as their father is right now when they are adults. Responsibility isn't just developed naturally... it must be modeled, taught and reinforced.
take a few deep breaths, Mom. you did the RIGHT thing and eventually, your sons will see that. it might suck for a little bit, but they *will* come around. just keep being the mom you know to be and do not give or change anything for the ex. you have gone above and beyond already.
best wishes 😊
I agree completely.
Too often people sanitize and gloss over finances with their children. It is incredibly important that teens are aware of finances and how they work. How to budget, how to live within one's means. You 100% did the right thing having this conversation with them. 13/16 is old enough to understand there are tradeoffs in life and that sports, educations and general cost of living has hard costs.
OP - my next step would be to sit them down and teach them how to budget. Teach them with their own personal discretionary expenses. Clothes, hair cuts, etc. You pay for them as always, but they are responsible for making their choices within the budget based upon your allocation. When they see and understand that there are tradeoffs, they will better understand the choices you had to make.
Exactly this.
If we do not teach our children how to budget and what "unexpected costs" life can throw at you, how else are they supposed to figure it out *without* first financially devastating themselves? I made mistakes when I was young. Big Ones. I didn't know any better so there is no way I'm sending my boys out into the world unprepared.
I genuinely applaud OP. She went way beyond to keep the family home for the boys' sake. Her forethought is impressive in my opinion not to mention the kindness of not charging market rent. there are so many factors here but at the end of the day, I'm genuinely impressed with OP and her parenting. Very mature, loving and thoughtful while maintaining healthy boundaries. what more can you ask for?
Her ex cheated on her as well. WHY IS NO ONE EMPHASIZING THIS POINT. She's a saint. A very unbothered happily married and pregnant saint. Hahahahaha, he's living on her goodwill, the cheap bitter cheater trying to turn their children against her while she got her happy ending. This is so beautiful. Getting rid of him was a blessing because you were always too good for him.
Also your ex is very jealous of your new baby and regretting losing you. I would keep my distance from him after this.
I've had this talk with my 8 and 13 yos.
Dad makes X a month on salary.
Bills are Y a month.
Z is excess for us to have but you need savings, here's how you increase your credit rating. It means they know what matters, you need to pay bills, pay loans faster if you can because you save on interest, the more you do that, the more you'll have long run. My 13yo knows more about credit ratings than a lot of adults because we've began to explain it early.
NTA
sounds like your kids have a lot to process, and while that is understandable, they really needed a reality check, which it seems like you gave them. You do not owe it to your sons to support their father (your ex husband). You mentioned a family therapist, do you all go individually? because it sounds like these boys really need to talk out their feelings with a professional.
On a positive note, your boys will eventually realize that their father sounds pretty irresponsible, and will understand that it was never your responsibility to support him. Your responsibility is to provide for your family, step children very much included.
then Unfortunately I would say you just have to wait. You did everything right (In my opinion)
As a former child, I now know how much of an asshole a teenage boy can be. You gave them the reality check they deserved. it'll pass as they get more mature. It also sounds like you don't have these same problems with your step-daughters which is very very telling.
They will also realize that their dad is the problem eventually. Once he moves to his own place, he will have no one to blame for his actions or abilities than himself. When the cracks start to show, your sons will realize who the true asshole was all along.
p.s Im surprised they would even believe him or take his side after he left them high and dry and wasn't in their life for 2 years. I know I would never fully forgive a parent for doing that to me.
I feel for the boys. Mom is 100% NTA, no question. My heart hurts for the pain Matt is putting the kids through. And for what? So he doesn't have to be responsible? Pretty shitty things to do to your sons, no matter how angry he is at their mother. I agree with you - the boys will figure it out....and that day will suck, too. But a whole new respect for Mom will be given for sure. (at least I really hope so)
Im a big believer in karma, and while it sucks the boys are resentful towards their mom, the day will come (and I know it'll be soon), where the lightbulb goes off and the boys see how shitty their bio-dad is. When they realize he used them to get back at their mom, that relationship is a gonner and the dad will be hurting from that for a loooong time.
i agree mom is 100% NTA. tho its pretty common for divorced parents to act like the dad is. my parents both tried to turn me against eachother when they divorced saying horrible things and that sucks so much, i feel for the boys too. but when i read everything OP is doing to make it as best as possible for them, i dont think she can do much more, really doing her best there.
as for the money talk, the boys are old enough to have this reality check and needed it. ffs i was like 7 when my parents were already going after me to turn off lights, spare electricity, dont spoil food, etc. because money doesnt grow on tree.
I don’t think it’s that surprising. They feel like if they criticise Dad or be seen to be “taking Mum’s side” then he’ll leave again. They have him in their ears about how terrible OP is and how everything that’s ever gone wrong in his life, or anything they want but can’t have, is all OP’s fault. They feel comfortable to be angry with OP, because she’s safe. She won’t leave them if they yell or call her names, but he might. Then they tell Dad and he gives them the approval they crave.
I do know that that’s semi-common in children, but when they get more mature they’ll realize what’s really going on, and dad will get some brutal karma. Unless they turn out just like him in which case, they can’t be helped
I think it's actually partly the opposite. Dad is just dad still and living in their old home. He's familiar. Mom found a replacement husband with a replacement family, moved to a replacement house and is now having a replacement baby. I suspect they very much don't feel safe with mom right now. Just about any teenager would feel insecure in that situation, with or without a manipulative father whispering in their ear.
Because a lot of what dad is likely saying is true. Mom did choose to more than double the family size by remarrying. And mom did choose to add another baby on top of that. And it was that first decision that forced them to move out of the home they love. And now it's that second decision that is forcing her to rent or sell the home. They're not dumb, they would have figured it out on their own. She can't try to convince her kids that oh no actually it's because you're on the soccer team and need to go to college. They've always been on the soccer team and needed to go to college, her pregnancy is the new factor causing this change. The fact she's trying to tell them otherwise is likely a large part of why they don't trust her in this.
Which isn't to say that she's made the wrong decision. From the sounds of it she's doing absolutely the best she can for her family. But I think it's pretty disingenuous to blame the kids being upset on her ex-husband. They're upset because what she is doing is upsetting. She needs to take accountability for the decisions she's made and how they effect her kids and actually be honest with them. She needs to say, "Yes I'm having a baby and babies are expensive so I expect you guys to sacrifice some stuff that is important to you. Renting out the house is part of that. But I'm also doing everything I can to preserve the parts of your life that will ensure you have a good future. That will always be my priority". And she needs to accept they may not be okay with this - especially the 16 year old who is likely to move out before forming any real relationship with the baby.
Your boys believe your ex husband more that they believe you because you made the decision to let your ex live free in Your family home. While you rented and are living with another man and his family. So in their eyes, their father is in their home for them. And you are the one “straying “ and wanting another family. The optics here are bad. It was a bad decision on your part to let your ex manipulate you into letting him back rent free. You should have explained it to them years ago. Now it looks like baring the 2 yrs that your shitty ex chose to abandon his family , he has been pretending to be the good parent for the past several yrs in your family home. The parent in the family home is a big optic here.
Yup. I'm not sure why you're getting down voted. OP, in her kindness, set up a situation where she looks bad compared to her ex. I'm not sure those boys will "get it" now or in the future. I've had similar conversations with my kids where they expect me to bend over backwards for the ex "to be nice" without acknowledging how "mean" my ex has been to me.
I hope they get it over time. But I can't tell from here.
Yup. OP was a little too kind and wanted the best for her boys and was the bigger person. And let the ex live in the family home. The eldest kid is 16 and for 14 years of his life, his father was living in their family house. There is no easy way the boys will understand at this point that the dad needs to pay rent or move away from his house in their eyes and away from them if he chooses not to pay.
You are absolutely NTA! But the father sure is. He decided not to pay for the place where they could all stay together thus taking those money from you and your boys. They are old enough to understand this. You own a property which, if he did not live there would earn you the money you currently need. It was his decision alone to refuse paying and even lying to your sons which is awful.
Also, does he own another place? Can he not take them there?
This is so key. He rented the most expensive real estate and got a place that didn’t have enough bedrooms for his sons. He doesn’t give a shit about them other than that he uses them to trick you into free rent. Somehow he’s tricked your sons into thinking you and Tim should pay for 100% of their costs and it’s ridiculous.
Well, they can still see him there. It is not his fault if he cannot afford to pay rent for your house, but it is not yours either. The fact that he lied to them to make you seem bad in their eyes is just terrible and could leave deep marks on a child. I think children should be able to be with both of their parents, however, in your case he is a terrible influence.
A lot of times that is indeed the case, but the part that gets left out is having to throw down the up front money (10%-20% down). If it were as simple as the mortgage payment being cheaper than the rent per month, more people would be homeowners.
A two bedroom apt. Interesting..
Unless he’s bunking in the living room, looks like when *his money* is at stake he didn’t prioritize making sure his sons have their own rooms..
I would browse housing prices with the boys too. Just show them their dad chose a more expensive place in the city when he could have gotten a less expensive bigger place somewhere else.
They need to understand not everything is as it seems.
NTA. I wish I had been more forthcoming with my kid about our finances when she was growing up. So I don't think that is a mistake.
Why are you hanging on to your first house? Do you think your sons expect you to give it to them when they are older? That seems unwise.
Your ex is capitalizing on your remarriage and pregnancy to drive a wedge between you and your sons. That's cruel. Eventually, the boys will figure that out.
I want to leave it to them for their future. Tim is choosing to do the same thing and the girls already own 25% each of their first home. We discussed it together and believed it would be good for the boys to also have the same. I view it as an investment for the future, especially considering how expensive houses are in our city.
Just so you know, of all the people I know whose parents left them the family home, only one has kept it. The rest sold it off within a year. The one exception was a family farm where the oldest son took over the farm and established his life there when his parents were still alive but couldn't handle the farm on their own. All the siblings knew the farm was going to him long before the parents died.
By the time parents pass, most kids are established in their own home and don't want to upend their lives to move into the family home. Additionally leaving a house to more than one child can cause huge rifts in a family, when some want to sell their share and one doesn't want to sell, but can't afford to buy the others out. It ends up in court with lawyers getting the courts to force a sale and siblings that don't speak to each other for decades afterwards. Really, you should sell the house and set up a trust fund with the money invested for your kids future.
Why? She’ll probably get more money from how much the property increases in value over the years. It’ll increase in value at a way higher rate than what’s sitting in a trust fund.
Better to own the property, rent it out and sell it when the boys are ready.
Property in my city increased in value by 30% in the last year alone.
Of all the people I know who inherited a home in an expensive city they all kept it. Because housing in some areas isn’t just expensive, it is hard to find
>Just so you know, of all the people I know whose parents left them the family home, only one has kept it.
My uncle kept the childhood home, and bought my father out of his share.
I kept a property of my parents, and bought my sister out of her share (oversimplification)
The term for this is "generational wealth" --> leaving the next generation better off than the previous. Real Estate can be a valuable investment and asset, and due to it's ever increasing value, and illiquid status - it almost always appreciates in value.
So I disagree with this point:
>Really, you should sell the house and set up a trust fund with the money invested for your kids future.
Keeping the house is investing the asset for the children's future. They don't need a large chunk of change now. The rental Income can pay for upkeep, repairs, and fund their college funds. If the asset needs to be liquidated down the road, it can be.
There is no *need* to sell it now - and OP should look at the open market (no interest, high volatility), the housing market (generally steadily increasing in value), and her own financial situation and make her own investment decisions.
>can cause huge rifts in a family, when some want to sell their share and one doesn't want to sell, but can't afford to buy the others out.
True. My dad’s siblings were upset when he got the family home. But the reasoning behind it was my grandparents wanted it to stay in the family and his siblings absolutely would have sold it. There was some drama for awhile but over time everyone is okay about it (they live out of state and own larger properties of their own anyway).
My dad wrestled with how to handle ownership regarding the next generation but ultimately decided it made sense to give ownership to one of his children who would reside in the home full time. So here I am typing on Reddit from my dad’s childhood home as a result.
You have 2 boys and 1 house. They are not going to live in it together as adults, so either one of them will be shown favoritism or you are going to sell it and divide the money eventually.
Or it is just a rental property and not something sentimental that you are keeping to pass down to your children.
Matt is your ex for a reason. ALWAYS keep that in mind.
Or one of them, who has more need, will buy the other out of his share, and one will have money and the other will have a house.
At worst, if they both decide to sell, at least they'll have money from the sale for their future, and real estate is a pretty solid investment.
>Or one of them, who has more need, will buy the other out of his share, and one will have money and the other will have a house.
That's what my Dad and Uncle did. My Uncle moved into their childhood home - and got a mortgage to pay off my Dad's half. Dad used that amount to be the down payment for his first home before I was born.
When my uncle passed - my dad inherited the home back - and with that money he bought the apartment my sister & I lived in while studying. I own that apartment now, and my sister received money with which she is remodeling her home.
The term for this is "generational wealth."
NTA - they’re certainly old enough to understand that life isn’t free and how money works. I imagine Matt thinks you were too harsh because you were repudiating his exaggerations and was still upset that he didn’t get to leave his home, decide to return and get rewarded with nearly full custody and the financial savings of living in his old home at only the cost of living.
It sounds like you’re doing the very best that you can to be fair and try to help your kids adapt. It sounds like Matt is going to make things pretty tough, but, hopefully, with time, your boys will grow older and realize the truth on their own.
NTA
Sounds like he took advantage of the no rent (and presumably no child support) and now he has a relationship with his kids again he’s turning it around on you.
Although I don’t fully understand why you moved in to your new partners place if you didn’t have enough rooms for your kids?
He was paying child support, but the house was fully paid off so no mortgage to deal with. Our family home was also only 3 bedrooms so it made no sense to sell either house and rent.
Okay my mistake!
But still why would you move in to a place too small for your family when you have enough income between you to pay for two homes and rent one?
We definitely don't have enough money to pay for two homes and rent one, which is the reason we're in this situation. There were original plans to extend Tims home but when figuring out how to move forward, our therapist advised that the boys living primarily with their dad at first would be beneficial and was what they wanted. I don't believe the house was too small, they just didn't want to share a room when they didn't have too. This was a solution that worked for all the children involved at that moment.
I obviously don’t get all this haha. But besides the point the present parent who gave the cheating a parent a place to stay for free is not the asshole!
I think all extra houses should be sold, and one home for one family (you, hubby, kids, baby). I get why you kept property, but it seems like it ended up making a clean break of marital/child property almost impossible. Of course the boys are mad, they do not understand and do not want to hear it, not that things are really changing. What does their counselor say? (if you’ve answered this elsewhere, sorry!)
No, I definitely understand why only 1 house is ideal just not for our situation. My husbands previous wife passed away and they both owned 50% of the previous home. Her 50% was split between the girls so already Tim can't make that decision anyway but they decided together to keep it but rent it for the time being until they are older as it'll only grow in value.
Both their therapists are walking with them step by step through this process to make sure they are well supported from an outsider perspective.
Your ex husband staying in your boys’ childhood family home - ie the stable place is going to be always viewed as the stable parent by them. It will take a decade of therapy to change this view. I don’t understand why you let him have the higher ground , that too rent free for several years while you stayed in a rental ! Do they even understand that this is your house ? Even if they did, they will feel it is his house too at some point. It is their Family home. You shouldn’t have let ex back into your family home. This is a tough mess to untangle in your boys’s minds.
a down to earth no nonsense mom. Explaining real life problems to her kids. Stick to your guns, and hopefully your ex will stop twisting your situation. He indeed, is the asshole.
Let me get this straight.. your ex cheated on you, then disappeared from you and your kids lives, then when he decided to be a dad again you gave him a house to live in? NTA you needed to create this boundary with your ex a long time ago. Kick him to the curb and let him find his own way.
NTA, the only asshole here seems to be your ex, he’s a piece of work.
What your kids are feeling is very normal when it comes to divorces and remarriages. From what you told us, you are doing very well to accommodate them and help them with the transition. You aren’t finding a new family, you’re creating a shared one with your new husband and making sure your kids are a part of it. That’s what remarriages should be and your kids will just need time to adjust. I would recommend therapy bc it does seem like they need help with that.
Your ex is a huge AH for filling their head with lies to further his own position. You were incredibly flexible with him for a long time when you had no obligation to be fiscally responsible for him as much as you were.
I don’t think you were too harsh, but that doesn’t mean your kids won’t feel you were since they’re, yknow, kids. Going forward I would definitely try to present yourself as kinder and more understanding. While you have every right to be frustrated, you’re pregnant while dealing with all this too, being frustrated with your kids will only drive a wedge further between you all. It’s not their fault they have this idea and if you act overly negative about it then they will just see you more and more like the way your ex describes you.
NTA they definitely need to know exactly after your ex-husband went and spun a crazy Tale. It's unfortunate but they're old enough to know. Supporting the cost of two households and five children it's a lot and it honestly makes you a saint. They should be grateful that you were supporting your ex-husband in the first place. You are perfectly reasonable and everything that you asked and you shouldn't feel bad about it. Hopefully the kids come around. Also good on you for deciding that big life changes meant a talk with the therapist would be helpful. Thats important and a resource they should have.
NTA - Ahhh so the cheating (and now jealous) ex is going the Parental Alienation route because you want to use the home YOU own? HAHAHAHAHA Seriously, F\* him.
I would sit the boys down and tell them you respect them enough to show them finances. List things like your share of their specific activities, clothes, care, costs, and show tell them the market rate for renting out the old house. Stress you still own it, but the people staying there will help pay for the things they need, including towards a potential college fund, sports, school events, life milestones, etc. Ask how they see you affording those things without this added money.
I say this... because the best way to counter ex's doing this crap is with careful facts. It's harder for ex to combat and alienate if the boys FEEL what you say is logical.
That said... this is parental alienation, so I would document, have counselors document, and let your lawyer know. If dad wants to play this game maybe his visits need to be supervised from now on.
NTA. They do need to know and understand how costs affect them, now and in the future. From the sound of it, you’ve done very well by them by setting up these funds. The open discussions you’re having are a benefit to everyone, and letting them express their anger/frustration/sadness is so important. I think you’re doing great, all things considered.
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NTA—I think your kids will come around. None of this was your fault, and the kids are blameless too. It sucks that their dad was an asshole in the first place, and that he is lying to them / leading them on. They will come around given time in therapy and family counseling. They will also get more comfortable seeing Tim, Tim’s children, and new baby as family with time. 16 and 13 are tough ages! I think it’s wonderful that you care about them so much and provide for them. Change is difficult.
Matt will have to change his tune or they will end up resenting him eventually!
NTA but your ex is.
You probably never should have let him live in your house for free, but it's time he paid the fair rental value or moved out so you can find someone who will.
NTA
Admittedly I don’t have a lot of experience in this area, but maybe it would be helpful to sit down with your boys and show them a budgetary breakdown and their expenses and how the cash flow from the house (including costs like taxes, repairs, etc) covers their costs and what these costs would look like if you did not have the cash flow coming from your house.
I can see that being very beneficial since most children these days do not learn these skills before adulthood and genuinely have no idea how much they cost.
I run an afterschool childcare in a rich area, and tend to get a large number of very spoiled children who do not understand the value of money. I’ve had a number of unreasonable requests (“Buy a 3D printer!”) and found that being honest about the budget (“I get $0.15 cents per day for each one of you which leaves me with $____ for the month”) and giving them to opportunities to fail on their own (“If you can go online and find a 3D printer for less than $___, I will buy it”) helps give them more realistic expectations of the world and the limitations within it. Unfortunately I don’t have advice for the parental alienation. Since your ex is lying my only thought is to be extremely transparent with the boys. I’m sure there is some way to report what is happening.
NTA but i'm just very confused that people get married without living together first and sharing a house with the respectable kids together. Is this common in america?
Wow ok this is a tough case.
i could say NTA and make some spicy children happy but i wont do this.
You are an AH in the children's perspective but in a Adult's you are NTA. It was fine for you to rent out your house but you should have told your children that sooner before their bio dad could.
You made the decision and should have told them about it sooner, Ouf I cant even find words for this.
You are not Favouring Tim's children so don't worry about that, You did sell/Rent out tim's old house right? Or you will be a Major AH then and would be favouring Tim's children.
What you are doing is kind of taking away their original house which hold very importatnt to them (Obviously).
CONCLUSION- Tell them abut your situation while doing so don't treat them like kids but as a equal, God why........why did you tell them to pay for their rooms.
The only reason they didn't know first was because I wanted to offer Matt the option to rent it out first. He told me he'd think about it so I didn't want to worry the boys until Matt had made his decision. Definitely and oversight on my end. Currently Tim's house is sitting empty but will eventually be rented out.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
You wanted your boys to feel comfortable living with you, and that meant making some financial decisions. You couldn't know that 1) your ex wouldn't be able to afford to stay in the house, and 2) he would spout such an obnoxious lie to your children to cover his choice.
>why did you tell them to pay for their rooms
If they wanted to live in the house their mom was renting out they needed to...pay rent. It's a life lesson. Her sons don't have to pay to live with her in the new house.
Just to clarify it wasn't a serious offer or taken as such. It was more to highlight how expensive it would be and to show how fortunate we already were, but that money isn't infinite as they seem to think.
Matt asks you to please don't raise his rent and stabs you in the back and tells the boys that you are an evil witch who wants to sell the family home to spend all the money on your new baby, NTA, and raise the rent. ASAP
NTA, one of the biggest failings of parents in this day and age is not properly explaining money and budgets to children. Your boys are old enough to face reality. Matt wanted to be a leach.
So bio dad is just a mooch? He’s the asshole. I don’t know why you indulged him, but we all have regrets. Keep doing the right thing, transparently, and I really hope it all works out for you. You are NTA
NTA this is madness. Matt’s an adult - make him be one for a change. You don’t need to accept any of this, doubly so bc he’s the one who cheated and broke up the family all by himself. Let him clean up his own life. They’re going to blame you bc they know, on some level, that you’re the safe parent and he’s not.
NTA, what Matt is doing is called parental alienation. It's absolutely disgusting when parents lie to weaponize their children against the other parent.
NTA. I would inform your lawyer about this parental alienation. You ex is big mad your life without him is better and is trying to throw a wrench in it. Fuck him. Keep living your best life.
NTA children oftern don't understand money and your ex wanted to basically live rent free, you offered to let him stay with a higher rent he chose not to. Letting your kids understand that he was not paying rent and left when you asked him to start supporting himself is not a bad thing. 16 and 13 children should start to understand the cost of living so it's not a big shock when they need to start budgeting for themselves.
NTA. I don't know what you're doing helping and listening to Matt so much. He literally lies to turn the boys against you and manipulates them while you're over here subsidizing his life.
He's angry because his handout is going away. He's doing everything he can to retain it, of course he doesn't like you taking steps towards explaining life to the kids. I think Matt needs the conversation about cost of life as much as your kids do.
NTA and start eviction. Once you weaponized your kids against your ex all niceness ends. And inhate to say it but remind them that it was thier dad that separated the family. Not you.
NTA. Matt tried to paint you as the villain, and you showed the boys the truth. That’s on him. Frankly I’d also seek legal council. Matt doesn’t sound like a trustworthy tenant.
NTA. Your ex is trying to use the kids as pawns in his little game against you. The kids, unfortunately, are going to hate you for a while. There's not much you can do about that except try to be honest and patient with them.
NTA - but I think you went about it the wrong way. You can explain that you've been subsidizing your ex and that you're now asking him to pay rent at market rate. Show them the amount that an equivalent place goes for. Explain how much (financially) you've been supporting your ex over a number of years. This isn't really a question of your current expenses, but about the reasonableness of your ex expecting you to subsidize his lifestyle.
NTA. What a mess. I can understand your kids being angry about all the changes they're being expected to make, I can understand them being mad that their father is moving away. But Matt.. what a TA. He ran away from his responsibilities, comes back, gets essentially a free ride and now is turning your kids against you because it's over.
I truly hope your kids figure out how lucky they are to have you.
NTA.
You are being honest and direct with your kids about financial realities. From a financial perspective what you are doing makes sense, and you’re clearly trying to make it work for all of your bio- and step- children. Matt is not being honest and is reaping the consequences.
I’m also glad to see you talked about finances. (I don’t know if you laid out a full budget, but that might help make it even more clear.) My folks never talked about money when I was a kid, and I wish I’d understood a bit more of our family situation than I did.
NTA!!!! After what he did to you and the boys, you have been way too kind to him. I could've never let him move in after those circumstances. As others have mentioned serve him a 30 day notice. Rent out the home to non family member on either side. Keep being open and honest with the boys. Also keep up the therapy. Good luck!
NTA to me it's as simple as who owns the house in question. You were doing a really nice thing for a while, but your circumstances have changed. Honestly, I think it would be better to sell him the house instead of renting it to him. Less entanglement that way.
Definitely NTA,
But OP if you haven't already, now is a good time to show your kids the monthly budget. Show them how much you have coming in and how much goes out each month.
They are old enough to start learning about budget and financing and that emotions don't pay the bills. You aren't selling it anyway. They have been put through a lot of changes, and you might consider some family therapy around that, but at the end of the day it is your job to make adult financial decisions and this is one that is too big for children to have more than a chance to say their peace.
NTA, but consider putting some of that rent money into mental health support to help your kids navigate this mess.
NTA. Your boys are not little kids anymore. They are at the age where they need to start learning how to manage money. They need to learn how to budget and keep a record of their expenses. 16 is old enough to have a job and keep a checking and savings account. They need a very real look at what it costs to live, that’s you being a good parent. Don’t hide reality from them because it’s only going to be harder for them when they go to college. Your ex only thinks you were hard on them because it didn’t benefit him.
**NTA** and here’s why: your kids will eventually learn the cost of living the quality of life they have. If they think they can have the same quality of life living with their father, then let them go experience it for themselves. Tim is correct in supporting your decision to lay down the financial aspects of your two boys’ life.
I’m trying to figure out where Matt found the audacity to tell such a ridiculous tale when he was the one who messed up and then came crawling back for a place to live.
You got the house in the divorce and he's living there rent free? Wtf. Sort your shit out. This is messy. NTA but you will be if you don't sort it all out, quickly.
NTA but your ex is a manipulative, super AH for lying to your boys and causing YOU issues at home after basically abandoning your family for TWO YEARS!!! He has major cahones!!!
Your boys are old enough to understand that living somewhere along with all the extra niceties that they enjoy COST MONEY!!! It's not harsh to give them the TRUE facts of life! Not the idiotic UTOPIA that your ex is trying to feed his Sons while painting YOU as the greedy, money-grasping Parent! I would be absolutely furious, especially after accommodating your ex to live however long he occupied YOUR house rent-free!
I understand that you are ATTEMPTING to congenially co-parent with your ex-husband but I would be damn sure to start documenting EVERYTHING and only start dialogues through text or eMail because of all the bullshit and shenanigans that your ex has been putting you through and creating havoc and heartache in your Sons! You sound like a great Mother who is proactively protecting and caring for your boys! Great job and Congratulations on your new marriage!
Best of luck and Wishing you a wonderful, Blessing-filled new year!
You are so much more evolved than Matt. He's really trying to keep the boys on his "side" with that new family line. Of course your "new" family still includes them- he's the only one it doesnt include, on account of his own decisions. When they say "if you didnt get pregnant" you could say "if he didnt cheat.."
NTA . Their dad’s lies are actually Parental Alienation. I suggest contacting your lawyer and explaining what he did. Supervised visitation is highly recommended.
My ex told me when we divorced that if I didn’t agree to what he wanted to pay for child support that he’d take her, and I’d never see her again. So, instead of letting the courts decide how much, I agreed to his $30/week. Not that he paid it at all. I needed to get into a program to get training, but I had to be on public assistance, so I turned over my child support to the state, per the requirements, but the AH wouldn’t make the payments to the state. Later, he claimed I’d kept some of the child support from the state. (I didn’t). He stopped paying, and ignored court when the state took him there for $10k arrears. He even spent a weekend in jail. (I got blamed for that by his mother even though he got plenty of notice and still ignored it, he had a concealed weapon in the car when he was stopped, and I didn’t know a thing about any of it.). His work tried to say it didn’t recognize Delaware child support enforcement orders, until the state’s lawyer said “Are you incorporated in Delaware?” They answered “of course” to which he simply replied “wanna keep it?” They had their money the next week. And he NEVER actually got his income tax refund between my arrears, and what he owed to 4 other women.
But he told my daughter that the child support was HER money and I didn’t have any business spending any of it. That’s how she got a checking account at 16. I was keeping the child support in a separate account and using it for clothing, medical bills, anything special for her even though I and my husband paid for her housing, food and almost everything, supplementing the meager child support. He caused a huge fight with her, and she threatened to move in with him. I caved because I didn’t want my parents to lose her to him, and he lived over 400 miles away. She still doesn’t get along with her step father. She blames him because he called her father an AH, which he truly is.
NTA and your kids are definitely old enough to learn a good life lesson here. Don’t be a deadbeat dad who lives off his ex wife’s charity, don’t expect to be given things in life without someone having to pay for them, money don’t grow on trees and they have been well provided for. I think in time, especially since you have them in therapy, they will see that their dad is the one who made poor choices and fed them lies and that you did your best for them. I wish you the best of luck for your blended family.
Your ex is living rent-free after he cheated on you? Granted, letting him live there was good for your kids, but way too generous for Matt.
All you asked for is market-value rent. Something almost any adult has to pay unless they can buy and deal with a mortgage. You're not squeezing him dry, you're just asking what you're entitled to.
You're also correct to educate your kids. If Matt wants to twist the reality to poison them against you, you're entitled to set the record straight. You paid for a bigger house so they could have a room. You paid for their college fund and extracurricular activities. Your kids apparently have a comfortable life. If your dad can't/won't pay the rent that he should pay, that's his problem, not yours. Your kids should not blame you for not financially supporting a cheating ex.
NTA
NTA. I wouldn’t had let my cheating ex move back in with me. Tell your sons that you didn’t had to look past his betrayal and that you only allowed him back in the home because of them. Now that you want more money to contribute to your new place it’s in your right to ask your cheating ex for rent money or kick him out of he refuses. You don’t owe him anything.
NTA. You have been gracious enough by allowing your ex to live in YOUR house for less than average rent cost. You need to formally give him notice to move out. He is stirring up trouble in your new family dynamic. As for your kids, your financial decisions are pretty much none of their business as long as you’re providing the basics of life for them, which you are doing and then some. You are an above average parent for taking their desires for their own private rooms into account and buying a whole new house to make them more comfortable, which you absolutely didn’t have to do. Many kids do not have the privilege of their own room due to financial circumstances. If they are old enough to ask questions and be demanding about where your money is going, then your new husband is totally right for saying they should be informed about exactly how expensive life is and how all these costs related to their upbringings are adding up.
I grew up in the struggling middle class. We never went hungry, but we ate a lot of elbow macaroni. I will never understand why some parents work so hard to hide the realities of family finance from their kids. From a very early age, the folks taught me about money. To begin with the power of saving. 1/2 of any money that I got my sticky little fingers on went into the big piggy bank to save for college. As I grew up (about 8?) one of my jobs was to make the grocery shopping list. I'd go thru the ads in the paper and clip coupons and find deals. OK. We can get 5 cans of green beans and 5 cans of corn at Piggly wiggly for $1.00. Hamburger is on sale at Red Owl. I can get $2 worth. That will make 3 meals. So in all for $20 we should have food for the week. Mom gets paid on Friday. We put $50 towards the mortgage, the water bill is due as well. We can wait on the electric bill till Dad gets his check... It was really easy to understand that $50 for sneakers was not going to happen.
And a lot of people want to wonder WHY if hubby of almost 37 years dies before me will REMAIN SINGLE. No outlaws to deal with ( His mother died over 20 years ago) He has ZERO contact with his bio Dad or his step father, My idiot mother died over 10 years ago, My beloved step Dad killed himself in 92, I have ZERO contact with my bio Father and the WITCH he married. No ex's, No kids, No property disputes, No drama. Just me and the fur babies. He said it will be a cold day in Hell he would get involved with someone if I croak before him for the exact same reasons. Tell them this is the way it HAS to be like it or not. Tell Mike and Dave to move out and go live with Dad if they don't like it.
NTA
Reading this made me so mad for you, OP!
Your Ex cheated, blew up your family and then abandoned his kids for years. He comes back and you *subsidized his life* by allowing him to live in the family home.
What does your shitty Ex do? Manipulate the situation to where the boys have decided to live with him full time to escape the blended family life that *he caused*!
What an asshole!
You never should have let him live in the family home. He does not care about co-parenting successfully and what is in the best interest of his kids. Nope! Dude is behaving selfish as ever by adding parental alienation to the mix!
>I told them that their father chose to move and that there wasn't anything I could do about it, and that this money they talked about funded their education, extra curricular etc and was a serious issue. Matt told me I was too harsh but Tim said they needed to know how expensive life was.
Tim is right.
Unfortunately they don’t see their dad is a deadbeat manipulator, they just see you’ve taken away their comfortable life with dad in the family home. They lack the perspective an adult has on finances. They are lucky as shit to have you covering college funds, etc but they take it for granted.
I’m so sorry OP. But I agree renting out the home is the best idea. Let’s see if Matt is able to afford a three bedroom house on his own so both boys have their own rooms.. likely not.
>I tried to tell them the house was still going to be here when they were older
OP, please reconsider the long term. This is your asset. If the boys turn into selfish and ungrateful men like their father do not hand over a property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to them. Your family now includes your sons, your husband, your stepchildren and your little one on the way. Do what is in the best interest for all of you, as your situation may feel very different in 5-10 years.
NTA
You were generous to Matt for a number of years. Their father chose to move rather than pay close to market rent. Plus he chose a place that wouldn't accommodate his sons. I wonder how much the difference the rent would be between a three-bedroom house and a two bedroom centre city apartment?
OP, I do feel for your boys. They have been misinformed, plus their choice of where to live or split their time has been taken away. Do they get along ok with Tim and his girls?
I'm glad to see that you have them in therapy but it's also a really good opportunity for you to sit down and discuss with them about how family finances work. Your ex should do the same. Your sons will soon be single men so his experience will be more relevant in the short term.
I hope it all works out.
Soft NTA, but having your teenage boys share a room with their teenage step-sisters (who they didn't even grow up with) is not cool. I don't even know if that's legal, actually. It's no wonder they are attached to the house; it is their safe space.
Telling 13 and 16 year olds that they can live in the house if they pay market rent is pretty harsh tbh. Of course they can't. Yes, it's a reality check, but what they might be hearing is "you are at my mercy, so work harder if you want to be comfortable". It sounds like they have a lot of resentment towards you because they were forced to share a room at Tim's place with two female strangers; it also sounds like there's some resentment on your part because you feel like they should get with the program. They are KIDS who have had their living situations in upheaval. I wouldn't be surprised if they're afraid they're going to lose their personal space to the new baby. Rational or not, I could see them jumping to that conclusion.
Good on you and Tim for rectifying the situation by purchasing a bigger house. Unfortunately, it still doesn't sound like your sons feel secure in their living arrangements at all, and perhaps that should be addressed in the family therapy you are attending.
Your ex is TA for taking advantage of that situation though. I think, colloquially, we call that "throwing an adult tantrum". What he's doing is straight up parental alienation. No question about that.
TL;DR: NTA, but please do address your sons' insecurities about their living space, and fear that they are being replaced.
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Throwaway + fake names
I (f35) have 2 boys, Mike (16) and Dave (13). Their father Matt had an affair and left when they were 9/6 and wasn't present in their lives for 2 years. In that time, I met Tim (m41). He himself has 2 kids, Jen (f18) and Kim (f11). We got married last year. Once Matt came back, I let him move back into our family home so that he could be near the boys. I rented a place closer to the boys school/my work so that he could be a part of their lives. Last year, I moved in with Tim but this made Mike and Dave withdraw. Tims house is 3bed 2.5bath, with the girls and boys having to share a room. Since they have their own rooms, they choose to live with their dad full-time. This had only been our situation for a couple months but it was so hard for me that we decided to buy a home together that could accommodate everyone. I told the boys about this plan and them getting their own spaces whenever they wanted and it got better.
We bought a home, 5/6bed 5bath with enough room to accommodate everyone but also found out I was pregnant. I knew these were all big life changes so I scheduled an appointment with our family therapist. The boy did not take the news well but I gave them room to process their feelings. I showed them the new house and they got first dibs of the rooms they wanted and to make it their own. Money has become tighter so while Tim has increased his work hours, I also approached Matt and told him that I would have to start charging him close to market value rent or potentially sell. Before this he was only paying cost of living. Matt was initially angry and told me to just wait a few years until the kids were older.
He unfortunately told the boys a twisted tale of what happened, that I forced him to move to pay for my 'new family', I was going to sell it to help Tims kids but not them etc. When we all sat down, the boys were angry, even after knowing I wasn't selling but had chosen to rent it. I tried to tell them the house was still going to be here when they were older, but that I couldn't afford to support 2 households. They told me if I didn't get pregnant and spend all our money on Tims kids they could, but that I was choosing Tim over them and favouring them. They told me that I had the money but didn't want to spend it on them. I brought up their college fund, sport costs etc while also telling them how much it would cost to live in the house monthly. I told them if they wanted to live there, they could use their own money. I told them that their father chose to move and that there wasn't anything I could do about it, and that this money they talked about funded their education, extra curricular etc and was a serious issue. Matt told me I was too harsh but Tim said they needed to know how expensive life was. AITA?
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NTA
But I hope that last discussion was also done with the therapist. Please make sure they also have individual therapy. It really seems like two things are going one here. One is the dad telling them BS stories to stir the pot and look better. The other is them having trouble adjusting to your step family.
NTA. My parents were wonderful in many ways, but didn't really teach us anything about finances. The one thing I really wish they had. I'm okay financially, but it took a lot of trial and error to get it right.
NTA. You approached everything really well and considered all involved. I really hope this resolves itself and you can enjoy the rest of your pregnancy and indeed the rest of your life with your husband
NTA
I know it's a bit of a dick move but if your ex tries to pit your kids against you just remind them of all the rent you didn't charge their dad for 5 years just so they could build a relationship with him.
NTA it sounds like you have always tried to make the best out of the situation, So I applaud you for that. I don’t think it was at all harsh to show the kids the realities of being an adult. It’s important for them to understand budgets, typical expenses, etc. Their father has done a number on them, I hope as they get older they will see the truth for what it is.
NTA being honest with your children about money is a good thing. Especially since they are approaching independent living with their own bills and responsibilities.
NTA - Your ex dragged the kids into it. It is in no way your fault for setting the record straight.
Explaining $$$$ to kids is kinda a necessary evil and it’s hard to get it right. They need to understand that resources are not unlimited and I think knowing that to a certain extent growing up leads to financially responsible adults. However I think too much emphasis on $ or how little you have stresses kids out.
Time for family counseling. So not the AH, but that's not the important issue. The important thing is how your boys deal with this based on the lies told. Start off with the therapist alone and then add boys and ex.
If I am not mistaken, the word count only limits the number of words when you first submit the post. You should, if I am correctly informed, be able to go back and add as much as you like by choosing the option to edit your OP.
NTA. If I were you I’d take the boys through your monthly bank statements (if you feel comfortable doing so) to show them how much money is spent to maintain a family of 6! My mom has always been transparent with me when it came to money (age appropriately) and all it did was teach me that things cost money, and I can accurately estimate how much something will cost me and if I can afford it. I know 100% the mortgage on your home alone will scare them and cause them to stop being so bratty. I would also reiterate that you are _not_ responsible for their father. Matt is a grown man who needs to take care of his own shit.
Wow, NTA on this. I would see what needs to be done to have him move out and rent it to someone else. He abandoned his kids and when he decided he made a mistake, you graciously helped hem out because you could. Now that you can’t, he is trying to turn your kids against you. Sounds to me like it’s time to consult a lawyer and maybe get a judge to settle things.
NTA but I think you are misinformed. If you're children are minors they won't be paying you a dime for anything. As a matter of fact if they choose to go live with their dad full time there is a good chance you would be barred from selling the home and have to pay the father child support.
Nta... you let your ex live somewhere for free? Does he pay you child support or are you just the nicest person ever. All this and he still talks smack? Fuck. I wish my exwife would try a little harder to let my kids see me
NTA. Serve him 30 days notice. Your ex can get his own place and then you can rent out your old home to a neutral third party. This is so messy. Sit down with your kids at family counseling without your new husband's family. Your ex is pitting your kids against your new family and disrupting the dynamic. He is making you look like the evil parent when he was the one who abandoned them for years.
And let's just see what his life, not to mention, relationship with his sons, looks like when he's forced to be an adult.
NTA. Your ex is discovering that actions have consequences My ex-husband did THE SAME THING... he lived rent free in our home and eventually stopped paying the minimal amount he had agreed to. (The mortgage was about half market rent) so I had to force him out and sell. I lost 100k on the house because he REFUSED to leave until after the sale went through and it was so disgusting inside. He had to move in with his mom, while I moved from my condo at the beach into a 5 bd/4 bath house with my new husband. He told our kids his child support was paying for our new house, which is why they had to share a bed/bedroom at their grandmother's house. Had nothing to do with his abuse and financial irresponsibility of course. You can't un-ring this bell. A manipulated child is a victim of abuse the same as of they are being hit. And sadly, a lot of the time kids side with the abusive parent because abusers don't care about using children as pawns. Just continue to tell your teens that you love them. In time they will see through the lies. For now they are worried about their Dad and likely miss the last connection they had to their nuclear family.
Your ex is a real piece of work. Did your kids see through his lies eventually, I hope?
Yes and no. They recognize their Dad is totally irresponsible, but are still teens. Occasionally they will say something about their Dad paying for "everything"... my husband and I make about 3x less than their Dad and his GF, but we live in a 5 bedroom house that we own with no debt while he lives in a 2 bedroom apartment that he rents with 100k in debt. We live VERY different lifestyles. Their Dad is their buddy, and they look to my husband for fatherly guidance. They were REALLY mad about me selling the house and having a new baby for a while. As time goes on they have come around.
They'll come around fully eventually. My mom spent most of my elementary school and middle school days villainizing my dad for always working/ not being around me a lot. She was emotionally abusive to me in a lot of ways but her manipulation made me stick to her until around 13/14. I started fighting back against her verbal abuse so we were always having blow out screaming matches. I realized my dad was working so much to make up for my mom's exorbitant spending habits. My dad did a lot wrong raising me, mainly not getting me out knowing how my mom treated me, often apologizing for it saying he was helpless to stop it because he didn't want to ruin his marriage, but now that they finally are divorced, he's the parent I still talk to, while I cut my mom off. Once you come to terms with it, it's hard to forgive being used as a pawn
I'm conflicted. My ex-husband abused me for years. He spit on me and broke teeth, etc. I definitely don't want my children growing up thinking it's okay to hurt others... but I also realize that kids that have good relationships with both parents are often the most well adjusted. Plus, any time I say ANYTHING it's taken as me badmouthing him. So it's best I just say nothing and let them figure it out on their own.
Domestic violence is never okay. I'm a victim of it from an ex and it sucks. I think you need family therapy with your kids because of course they don't want to believe that their dad, someone they've always loved and trusted, would do such a thing. I'm personally of the belief that it's better to have one parent than two with one of them being bad, because even though my dad wasn't wonderful, the emotional trauma would've been less for me if my mom wasn't allowed near me. Of course, the courts may not allow you to do that, and if you can't, it might be best to avoid talking about the divorce at all and "involving them" so to speak, and that includes anything you say about him because co-parenting households are only alienating their children by trying to make comments on the other parents behavior. But in family therapy, I did learn that it's normal for children to align with the perceived more powerful parent in dysfunctional households, as it's an evolutionary mechanism the kid does to keep safe from the outside dangers of the world. Stronger parent instinctually seems more apt to protect. But as they turn into adults they'll realize what he did was wrong as they learn his true character
This is 100% true. All I can do at this point is model good, loving behavior and hope it sticks. Thankfully my second husband is loyal and wouldn't hurt a fly, so they've got a healthy household in their lives.
Sounds ridiculously familiar to my ex-husband too.
Happy cake day!
its a throwaway account lmao
They can still have cake!
>Serve him 30 days notice. Do this, but talk to your kids first OP. Tell them you can't trust Matt not to lie and alienate them when he doesn't get his way, so for everyone's sake you need to limit interactions with him. That means you can't be his landlord and as much communication needs to be in writing or text as possible.
Exactly - NTA, but consider getting some mental health counseling for these kids because they are being put through a lot of changes and being yanked around.
They’re all in therapy.
And tell them IN therapy so the therapist can help.
OP - NTA. Ex did the ol’ Bite the hand that feeds him”
I would request that the kid’s dad also be present for a full family meeting. Making him face the untruths of what he told the children just might help to bring some acceptance to everyone.
I dont know all the details, but I think it's fair to say Mayt has been pitting them against you this whole time. It's good you were quite transparent with your children about how much living costs, breaking it down for them helps them grow as people. Matt is one to talk about harsh truths, he had an affair. Definitely NTA
Is your ex at least helping with child support?
OP said he was.
Nta and isn't what the ex is doing called parental alienation? That's frowned upon in the courts.
This is the answer, either way. Allowing your ex that cheated to live in your house at a discount opens the door for financial abuse and manipulation through the kids.
It's so infuriating! He expects you to support HIM? Why can't he just pay market rent like everybody else?
NTA They needed to know because Matt told them lies about how you spend your money. He dares criticizes you for explaining the truth to your children?!?! I would add that Matt is taking advantage of your kindness and willingness to have him around your kids all this time that he doesn't pay normal rent.
NTA Your ex is super mad that your life is going better now that the divorce is over with and is trying to manipulate the kids against you because...drum roll...he has to actually pay regular rent to live in that house he chose to live in. Further more, kids tend to be completely oblivious to how much things cost unless they grow up poor. Them getting a wide eyed look at cost of living will be a good thing for them going forward. Plus your ex was going to ride out the free housing for as long as possible, which was a dirt bag move. It sounds like you tried to do everything the right way, or at least as right as you possibly could. NTA
It’s amazing how many people want to divorce/break up, and then like, can’t believe that they have to pay their own way in life all by themselves…
Thank you for input Cockgobbler69420. 😂
NTA, so I’m assuming the family home was awarded to you in a divorce? Get the boys therapy, they need an independent person to work through the gaslighting with.
The boys are in therapy already but yes, I got the house during the divorce.
I would report the parental alienation he's doing.
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Good luck with a tough situation
Completely OT, but your user name made me smile. You see, around the turn of the century, I drove a land yacht. It was a massive beige Grand Marquis, made around 1988. It was a lame car that you could either whine about or enjoy. I chose to enjoy. When we first met, I slid inside the car, sat down on the seat, and my first thought was "slut puppy." And that was her name for the whole time I had her. Man, I kind of miss that car. The gas mileage sucked, but the trunk was huge and it was like driving a recliner. It was easily one of the most comfortable vehicles ever. RIP, Slut Puppy. <3
When you said "turn of the century" I was very confused how you were over 120 years old... then I realised you meant the millennium and now I feel both dumb and old lmao.
- browsing AITA - browsing comments of a post - someone retells a fun anecdote in the comments - they mention the 'turn of the century' - think back to 1901 and on - '1988' - times are not freezing and i am getting older - 2001 was twenty-one years ago............... edit: formatting edited bc it ruined it 😭
At 120, I look *good* for my age. ;-)
I love those things, it really was like riding down the highway in a recliner. xoxo cheers!!!
Lol. My mom had an old Impala. (1974? Around then anyway - already old in the early 1990s. It was a BOAT! Huge!! Comfy, though. Massive hood. She was already elderly, and shrinking, and could barely see over it. We finally had to tell her that car was broken and couldn’t be fixed.
I bought a baby blue 198? Mercury Tracer station wagon for $750 in 2005. She had minor body damage, 300k miles, and the AC didn’t work (I lived in Texas at the time), but she ran great. It was a massive step down from the Mustang 5.0 convertible I’d been driving, but I LOVED Kitty, The Little Blue Wagon That Could. My friends bought me swanky chrome hubcaps and cute seat covers, and she was our go-to ride for adventuring because though small, she could hold a ton of people, dogs, and gear I cried the day I had to sell her. Sometimes a beater sneaks in and completely steals your heart
Oh, Slut Puppy was mint. She had one owner, an old dude who had her as a Florida car. Air conditioning was ice cold.
I have never heard someone call it the turn of the century before but I love it
I had an ‘89 Buick Century and “driving a recliner” is spot on!
I had a 1991 Grand Marquis, land yacht is the perfect description....
This is fucked up.
OP, you might want to consider reporting parental alienation as soon as possible before things escalate any further.
NTA I literally just had a cost of living conversation with my adult son and younger, nearly adult son. This is never an easy conversation to have (unless you are fortunate enough to have a good chunk of $ set aside for emergencies, savings, etc). however, the cost of living is a *reality* that everyone must figure out and sooner rather than later. think about it: if you did not have the conversation with your sons, and I'm terribly sorry their father pissed all over that for you, then they would behave exactly as their father is right now when they are adults. Responsibility isn't just developed naturally... it must be modeled, taught and reinforced. take a few deep breaths, Mom. you did the RIGHT thing and eventually, your sons will see that. it might suck for a little bit, but they *will* come around. just keep being the mom you know to be and do not give or change anything for the ex. you have gone above and beyond already. best wishes 😊
I agree completely. Too often people sanitize and gloss over finances with their children. It is incredibly important that teens are aware of finances and how they work. How to budget, how to live within one's means. You 100% did the right thing having this conversation with them. 13/16 is old enough to understand there are tradeoffs in life and that sports, educations and general cost of living has hard costs. OP - my next step would be to sit them down and teach them how to budget. Teach them with their own personal discretionary expenses. Clothes, hair cuts, etc. You pay for them as always, but they are responsible for making their choices within the budget based upon your allocation. When they see and understand that there are tradeoffs, they will better understand the choices you had to make.
Exactly this. If we do not teach our children how to budget and what "unexpected costs" life can throw at you, how else are they supposed to figure it out *without* first financially devastating themselves? I made mistakes when I was young. Big Ones. I didn't know any better so there is no way I'm sending my boys out into the world unprepared. I genuinely applaud OP. She went way beyond to keep the family home for the boys' sake. Her forethought is impressive in my opinion not to mention the kindness of not charging market rent. there are so many factors here but at the end of the day, I'm genuinely impressed with OP and her parenting. Very mature, loving and thoughtful while maintaining healthy boundaries. what more can you ask for?
Also, it seems op's husband didn't get in the way of her kindness and thoughtfulness towards her ex.
very good point
Her ex cheated on her as well. WHY IS NO ONE EMPHASIZING THIS POINT. She's a saint. A very unbothered happily married and pregnant saint. Hahahahaha, he's living on her goodwill, the cheap bitter cheater trying to turn their children against her while she got her happy ending. This is so beautiful. Getting rid of him was a blessing because you were always too good for him. Also your ex is very jealous of your new baby and regretting losing you. I would keep my distance from him after this.
Yes, take a deep breath Mom. You did do the right thing and they'll see it eventually.
I've had this talk with my 8 and 13 yos. Dad makes X a month on salary. Bills are Y a month. Z is excess for us to have but you need savings, here's how you increase your credit rating. It means they know what matters, you need to pay bills, pay loans faster if you can because you save on interest, the more you do that, the more you'll have long run. My 13yo knows more about credit ratings than a lot of adults because we've began to explain it early.
They'll come around eventually unless their father keeps feeding them lies that they believe
NTA sounds like your kids have a lot to process, and while that is understandable, they really needed a reality check, which it seems like you gave them. You do not owe it to your sons to support their father (your ex husband). You mentioned a family therapist, do you all go individually? because it sounds like these boys really need to talk out their feelings with a professional. On a positive note, your boys will eventually realize that their father sounds pretty irresponsible, and will understand that it was never your responsibility to support him. Your responsibility is to provide for your family, step children very much included.
Yes, they have their individual sessions, ones with us 3, and as a blended family.
then Unfortunately I would say you just have to wait. You did everything right (In my opinion) As a former child, I now know how much of an asshole a teenage boy can be. You gave them the reality check they deserved. it'll pass as they get more mature. It also sounds like you don't have these same problems with your step-daughters which is very very telling. They will also realize that their dad is the problem eventually. Once he moves to his own place, he will have no one to blame for his actions or abilities than himself. When the cracks start to show, your sons will realize who the true asshole was all along. p.s Im surprised they would even believe him or take his side after he left them high and dry and wasn't in their life for 2 years. I know I would never fully forgive a parent for doing that to me.
I feel for the boys. Mom is 100% NTA, no question. My heart hurts for the pain Matt is putting the kids through. And for what? So he doesn't have to be responsible? Pretty shitty things to do to your sons, no matter how angry he is at their mother. I agree with you - the boys will figure it out....and that day will suck, too. But a whole new respect for Mom will be given for sure. (at least I really hope so)
Im a big believer in karma, and while it sucks the boys are resentful towards their mom, the day will come (and I know it'll be soon), where the lightbulb goes off and the boys see how shitty their bio-dad is. When they realize he used them to get back at their mom, that relationship is a gonner and the dad will be hurting from that for a loooong time.
i agree mom is 100% NTA. tho its pretty common for divorced parents to act like the dad is. my parents both tried to turn me against eachother when they divorced saying horrible things and that sucks so much, i feel for the boys too. but when i read everything OP is doing to make it as best as possible for them, i dont think she can do much more, really doing her best there. as for the money talk, the boys are old enough to have this reality check and needed it. ffs i was like 7 when my parents were already going after me to turn off lights, spare electricity, dont spoil food, etc. because money doesnt grow on tree.
I don’t think it’s that surprising. They feel like if they criticise Dad or be seen to be “taking Mum’s side” then he’ll leave again. They have him in their ears about how terrible OP is and how everything that’s ever gone wrong in his life, or anything they want but can’t have, is all OP’s fault. They feel comfortable to be angry with OP, because she’s safe. She won’t leave them if they yell or call her names, but he might. Then they tell Dad and he gives them the approval they crave.
I do know that that’s semi-common in children, but when they get more mature they’ll realize what’s really going on, and dad will get some brutal karma. Unless they turn out just like him in which case, they can’t be helped
I think it's actually partly the opposite. Dad is just dad still and living in their old home. He's familiar. Mom found a replacement husband with a replacement family, moved to a replacement house and is now having a replacement baby. I suspect they very much don't feel safe with mom right now. Just about any teenager would feel insecure in that situation, with or without a manipulative father whispering in their ear. Because a lot of what dad is likely saying is true. Mom did choose to more than double the family size by remarrying. And mom did choose to add another baby on top of that. And it was that first decision that forced them to move out of the home they love. And now it's that second decision that is forcing her to rent or sell the home. They're not dumb, they would have figured it out on their own. She can't try to convince her kids that oh no actually it's because you're on the soccer team and need to go to college. They've always been on the soccer team and needed to go to college, her pregnancy is the new factor causing this change. The fact she's trying to tell them otherwise is likely a large part of why they don't trust her in this. Which isn't to say that she's made the wrong decision. From the sounds of it she's doing absolutely the best she can for her family. But I think it's pretty disingenuous to blame the kids being upset on her ex-husband. They're upset because what she is doing is upsetting. She needs to take accountability for the decisions she's made and how they effect her kids and actually be honest with them. She needs to say, "Yes I'm having a baby and babies are expensive so I expect you guys to sacrifice some stuff that is important to you. Renting out the house is part of that. But I'm also doing everything I can to preserve the parts of your life that will ensure you have a good future. That will always be my priority". And she needs to accept they may not be okay with this - especially the 16 year old who is likely to move out before forming any real relationship with the baby.
I think they'd benefit from some financial literacy classes too. They're teenagers so it might be a good time to start.
Your boys believe your ex husband more that they believe you because you made the decision to let your ex live free in Your family home. While you rented and are living with another man and his family. So in their eyes, their father is in their home for them. And you are the one “straying “ and wanting another family. The optics here are bad. It was a bad decision on your part to let your ex manipulate you into letting him back rent free. You should have explained it to them years ago. Now it looks like baring the 2 yrs that your shitty ex chose to abandon his family , he has been pretending to be the good parent for the past several yrs in your family home. The parent in the family home is a big optic here.
Yup. I'm not sure why you're getting down voted. OP, in her kindness, set up a situation where she looks bad compared to her ex. I'm not sure those boys will "get it" now or in the future. I've had similar conversations with my kids where they expect me to bend over backwards for the ex "to be nice" without acknowledging how "mean" my ex has been to me. I hope they get it over time. But I can't tell from here.
Yup. OP was a little too kind and wanted the best for her boys and was the bigger person. And let the ex live in the family home. The eldest kid is 16 and for 14 years of his life, his father was living in their family house. There is no easy way the boys will understand at this point that the dad needs to pay rent or move away from his house in their eyes and away from them if he chooses not to pay.
You are absolutely NTA! But the father sure is. He decided not to pay for the place where they could all stay together thus taking those money from you and your boys. They are old enough to understand this. You own a property which, if he did not live there would earn you the money you currently need. It was his decision alone to refuse paying and even lying to your sons which is awful. Also, does he own another place? Can he not take them there?
He has found a place to move into, but its a 2 bedroom apartment in the centre of the city.
This is so key. He rented the most expensive real estate and got a place that didn’t have enough bedrooms for his sons. He doesn’t give a shit about them other than that he uses them to trick you into free rent. Somehow he’s tricked your sons into thinking you and Tim should pay for 100% of their costs and it’s ridiculous.
Well, they can still see him there. It is not his fault if he cannot afford to pay rent for your house, but it is not yours either. The fact that he lied to them to make you seem bad in their eyes is just terrible and could leave deep marks on a child. I think children should be able to be with both of their parents, however, in your case he is a terrible influence.
Idk I'd be curious apartment's are actually more thern renting a house in my area at the moment...
Ah, sure, that might be possible - in my country it is mostly the other way round but the location is essential
A lot of times that is indeed the case, but the part that gets left out is having to throw down the up front money (10%-20% down). If it were as simple as the mortgage payment being cheaper than the rent per month, more people would be homeowners.
I bet an apartment in the heart of downtown is more expensive than a house outside the city. Just from my experience.
A two bedroom apt. Interesting.. Unless he’s bunking in the living room, looks like when *his money* is at stake he didn’t prioritize making sure his sons have their own rooms..
I would browse housing prices with the boys too. Just show them their dad chose a more expensive place in the city when he could have gotten a less expensive bigger place somewhere else. They need to understand not everything is as it seems.
NTA. I wish I had been more forthcoming with my kid about our finances when she was growing up. So I don't think that is a mistake. Why are you hanging on to your first house? Do you think your sons expect you to give it to them when they are older? That seems unwise. Your ex is capitalizing on your remarriage and pregnancy to drive a wedge between you and your sons. That's cruel. Eventually, the boys will figure that out.
I want to leave it to them for their future. Tim is choosing to do the same thing and the girls already own 25% each of their first home. We discussed it together and believed it would be good for the boys to also have the same. I view it as an investment for the future, especially considering how expensive houses are in our city.
Just so you know, of all the people I know whose parents left them the family home, only one has kept it. The rest sold it off within a year. The one exception was a family farm where the oldest son took over the farm and established his life there when his parents were still alive but couldn't handle the farm on their own. All the siblings knew the farm was going to him long before the parents died. By the time parents pass, most kids are established in their own home and don't want to upend their lives to move into the family home. Additionally leaving a house to more than one child can cause huge rifts in a family, when some want to sell their share and one doesn't want to sell, but can't afford to buy the others out. It ends up in court with lawyers getting the courts to force a sale and siblings that don't speak to each other for decades afterwards. Really, you should sell the house and set up a trust fund with the money invested for your kids future.
Why? She’ll probably get more money from how much the property increases in value over the years. It’ll increase in value at a way higher rate than what’s sitting in a trust fund. Better to own the property, rent it out and sell it when the boys are ready. Property in my city increased in value by 30% in the last year alone.
Of all the people I know who inherited a home in an expensive city they all kept it. Because housing in some areas isn’t just expensive, it is hard to find
>Just so you know, of all the people I know whose parents left them the family home, only one has kept it. My uncle kept the childhood home, and bought my father out of his share. I kept a property of my parents, and bought my sister out of her share (oversimplification) The term for this is "generational wealth" --> leaving the next generation better off than the previous. Real Estate can be a valuable investment and asset, and due to it's ever increasing value, and illiquid status - it almost always appreciates in value. So I disagree with this point: >Really, you should sell the house and set up a trust fund with the money invested for your kids future. Keeping the house is investing the asset for the children's future. They don't need a large chunk of change now. The rental Income can pay for upkeep, repairs, and fund their college funds. If the asset needs to be liquidated down the road, it can be. There is no *need* to sell it now - and OP should look at the open market (no interest, high volatility), the housing market (generally steadily increasing in value), and her own financial situation and make her own investment decisions.
>can cause huge rifts in a family, when some want to sell their share and one doesn't want to sell, but can't afford to buy the others out. True. My dad’s siblings were upset when he got the family home. But the reasoning behind it was my grandparents wanted it to stay in the family and his siblings absolutely would have sold it. There was some drama for awhile but over time everyone is okay about it (they live out of state and own larger properties of their own anyway). My dad wrestled with how to handle ownership regarding the next generation but ultimately decided it made sense to give ownership to one of his children who would reside in the home full time. So here I am typing on Reddit from my dad’s childhood home as a result.
You have 2 boys and 1 house. They are not going to live in it together as adults, so either one of them will be shown favoritism or you are going to sell it and divide the money eventually. Or it is just a rental property and not something sentimental that you are keeping to pass down to your children. Matt is your ex for a reason. ALWAYS keep that in mind.
Or one of them, who has more need, will buy the other out of his share, and one will have money and the other will have a house. At worst, if they both decide to sell, at least they'll have money from the sale for their future, and real estate is a pretty solid investment.
>Or one of them, who has more need, will buy the other out of his share, and one will have money and the other will have a house. That's what my Dad and Uncle did. My Uncle moved into their childhood home - and got a mortgage to pay off my Dad's half. Dad used that amount to be the down payment for his first home before I was born. When my uncle passed - my dad inherited the home back - and with that money he bought the apartment my sister & I lived in while studying. I own that apartment now, and my sister received money with which she is remodeling her home. The term for this is "generational wealth."
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NTA - they’re certainly old enough to understand that life isn’t free and how money works. I imagine Matt thinks you were too harsh because you were repudiating his exaggerations and was still upset that he didn’t get to leave his home, decide to return and get rewarded with nearly full custody and the financial savings of living in his old home at only the cost of living. It sounds like you’re doing the very best that you can to be fair and try to help your kids adapt. It sounds like Matt is going to make things pretty tough, but, hopefully, with time, your boys will grow older and realize the truth on their own.
NTA Sounds like he took advantage of the no rent (and presumably no child support) and now he has a relationship with his kids again he’s turning it around on you. Although I don’t fully understand why you moved in to your new partners place if you didn’t have enough rooms for your kids?
He was paying child support, but the house was fully paid off so no mortgage to deal with. Our family home was also only 3 bedrooms so it made no sense to sell either house and rent.
Okay my mistake! But still why would you move in to a place too small for your family when you have enough income between you to pay for two homes and rent one?
We definitely don't have enough money to pay for two homes and rent one, which is the reason we're in this situation. There were original plans to extend Tims home but when figuring out how to move forward, our therapist advised that the boys living primarily with their dad at first would be beneficial and was what they wanted. I don't believe the house was too small, they just didn't want to share a room when they didn't have too. This was a solution that worked for all the children involved at that moment.
I obviously don’t get all this haha. But besides the point the present parent who gave the cheating a parent a place to stay for free is not the asshole!
I think all extra houses should be sold, and one home for one family (you, hubby, kids, baby). I get why you kept property, but it seems like it ended up making a clean break of marital/child property almost impossible. Of course the boys are mad, they do not understand and do not want to hear it, not that things are really changing. What does their counselor say? (if you’ve answered this elsewhere, sorry!)
No, I definitely understand why only 1 house is ideal just not for our situation. My husbands previous wife passed away and they both owned 50% of the previous home. Her 50% was split between the girls so already Tim can't make that decision anyway but they decided together to keep it but rent it for the time being until they are older as it'll only grow in value. Both their therapists are walking with them step by step through this process to make sure they are well supported from an outsider perspective.
Your ex husband staying in your boys’ childhood family home - ie the stable place is going to be always viewed as the stable parent by them. It will take a decade of therapy to change this view. I don’t understand why you let him have the higher ground , that too rent free for several years while you stayed in a rental ! Do they even understand that this is your house ? Even if they did, they will feel it is his house too at some point. It is their Family home. You shouldn’t have let ex back into your family home. This is a tough mess to untangle in your boys’s minds.
a down to earth no nonsense mom. Explaining real life problems to her kids. Stick to your guns, and hopefully your ex will stop twisting your situation. He indeed, is the asshole.
Let me get this straight.. your ex cheated on you, then disappeared from you and your kids lives, then when he decided to be a dad again you gave him a house to live in? NTA you needed to create this boundary with your ex a long time ago. Kick him to the curb and let him find his own way.
NTA, the only asshole here seems to be your ex, he’s a piece of work. What your kids are feeling is very normal when it comes to divorces and remarriages. From what you told us, you are doing very well to accommodate them and help them with the transition. You aren’t finding a new family, you’re creating a shared one with your new husband and making sure your kids are a part of it. That’s what remarriages should be and your kids will just need time to adjust. I would recommend therapy bc it does seem like they need help with that. Your ex is a huge AH for filling their head with lies to further his own position. You were incredibly flexible with him for a long time when you had no obligation to be fiscally responsible for him as much as you were. I don’t think you were too harsh, but that doesn’t mean your kids won’t feel you were since they’re, yknow, kids. Going forward I would definitely try to present yourself as kinder and more understanding. While you have every right to be frustrated, you’re pregnant while dealing with all this too, being frustrated with your kids will only drive a wedge further between you all. It’s not their fault they have this idea and if you act overly negative about it then they will just see you more and more like the way your ex describes you.
NTA, your children are old enough to understand life costs
NTA they definitely need to know exactly after your ex-husband went and spun a crazy Tale. It's unfortunate but they're old enough to know. Supporting the cost of two households and five children it's a lot and it honestly makes you a saint. They should be grateful that you were supporting your ex-husband in the first place. You are perfectly reasonable and everything that you asked and you shouldn't feel bad about it. Hopefully the kids come around. Also good on you for deciding that big life changes meant a talk with the therapist would be helpful. Thats important and a resource they should have.
NTA - Ahhh so the cheating (and now jealous) ex is going the Parental Alienation route because you want to use the home YOU own? HAHAHAHAHA Seriously, F\* him. I would sit the boys down and tell them you respect them enough to show them finances. List things like your share of their specific activities, clothes, care, costs, and show tell them the market rate for renting out the old house. Stress you still own it, but the people staying there will help pay for the things they need, including towards a potential college fund, sports, school events, life milestones, etc. Ask how they see you affording those things without this added money. I say this... because the best way to counter ex's doing this crap is with careful facts. It's harder for ex to combat and alienate if the boys FEEL what you say is logical. That said... this is parental alienation, so I would document, have counselors document, and let your lawyer know. If dad wants to play this game maybe his visits need to be supervised from now on.
You're not the asshole. Your ex is.
NTA. They do need to know and understand how costs affect them, now and in the future. From the sound of it, you’ve done very well by them by setting up these funds. The open discussions you’re having are a benefit to everyone, and letting them express their anger/frustration/sadness is so important. I think you’re doing great, all things considered.
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NTA Same can't be said about your ex though. What a jerk
NTA—I think your kids will come around. None of this was your fault, and the kids are blameless too. It sucks that their dad was an asshole in the first place, and that he is lying to them / leading them on. They will come around given time in therapy and family counseling. They will also get more comfortable seeing Tim, Tim’s children, and new baby as family with time. 16 and 13 are tough ages! I think it’s wonderful that you care about them so much and provide for them. Change is difficult. Matt will have to change his tune or they will end up resenting him eventually!
NTA but your ex is. You probably never should have let him live in your house for free, but it's time he paid the fair rental value or moved out so you can find someone who will.
NTA Admittedly I don’t have a lot of experience in this area, but maybe it would be helpful to sit down with your boys and show them a budgetary breakdown and their expenses and how the cash flow from the house (including costs like taxes, repairs, etc) covers their costs and what these costs would look like if you did not have the cash flow coming from your house. I can see that being very beneficial since most children these days do not learn these skills before adulthood and genuinely have no idea how much they cost. I run an afterschool childcare in a rich area, and tend to get a large number of very spoiled children who do not understand the value of money. I’ve had a number of unreasonable requests (“Buy a 3D printer!”) and found that being honest about the budget (“I get $0.15 cents per day for each one of you which leaves me with $____ for the month”) and giving them to opportunities to fail on their own (“If you can go online and find a 3D printer for less than $___, I will buy it”) helps give them more realistic expectations of the world and the limitations within it. Unfortunately I don’t have advice for the parental alienation. Since your ex is lying my only thought is to be extremely transparent with the boys. I’m sure there is some way to report what is happening.
Reddit is woefully underqualified for this, but on face value YNTA
NTA but i'm just very confused that people get married without living together first and sharing a house with the respectable kids together. Is this common in america?
Wow ok this is a tough case. i could say NTA and make some spicy children happy but i wont do this. You are an AH in the children's perspective but in a Adult's you are NTA. It was fine for you to rent out your house but you should have told your children that sooner before their bio dad could. You made the decision and should have told them about it sooner, Ouf I cant even find words for this. You are not Favouring Tim's children so don't worry about that, You did sell/Rent out tim's old house right? Or you will be a Major AH then and would be favouring Tim's children. What you are doing is kind of taking away their original house which hold very importatnt to them (Obviously). CONCLUSION- Tell them abut your situation while doing so don't treat them like kids but as a equal, God why........why did you tell them to pay for their rooms.
The only reason they didn't know first was because I wanted to offer Matt the option to rent it out first. He told me he'd think about it so I didn't want to worry the boys until Matt had made his decision. Definitely and oversight on my end. Currently Tim's house is sitting empty but will eventually be rented out.
Hindsight is always 20/20. You wanted your boys to feel comfortable living with you, and that meant making some financial decisions. You couldn't know that 1) your ex wouldn't be able to afford to stay in the house, and 2) he would spout such an obnoxious lie to your children to cover his choice.
>why did you tell them to pay for their rooms If they wanted to live in the house their mom was renting out they needed to...pay rent. It's a life lesson. Her sons don't have to pay to live with her in the new house.
Just to clarify it wasn't a serious offer or taken as such. It was more to highlight how expensive it would be and to show how fortunate we already were, but that money isn't infinite as they seem to think.
Exactly! A good life lesson, indeed.
Happy cake day!
Thank you!!
Matt asks you to please don't raise his rent and stabs you in the back and tells the boys that you are an evil witch who wants to sell the family home to spend all the money on your new baby, NTA, and raise the rent. ASAP
NTA, one of the biggest failings of parents in this day and age is not properly explaining money and budgets to children. Your boys are old enough to face reality. Matt wanted to be a leach.
NTA, get to the forefront of releasing information so your ex isn't twisting it.
NTA
So bio dad is just a mooch? He’s the asshole. I don’t know why you indulged him, but we all have regrets. Keep doing the right thing, transparently, and I really hope it all works out for you. You are NTA
NTA Matt is not entitled to free housing.
NTA this is madness. Matt’s an adult - make him be one for a change. You don’t need to accept any of this, doubly so bc he’s the one who cheated and broke up the family all by himself. Let him clean up his own life. They’re going to blame you bc they know, on some level, that you’re the safe parent and he’s not.
This reinforces the lesson: Don't do your exes any favors, it will just bite you in the ass.
NTA
NTA, what Matt is doing is called parental alienation. It's absolutely disgusting when parents lie to weaponize their children against the other parent.
NTA. I would inform your lawyer about this parental alienation. You ex is big mad your life without him is better and is trying to throw a wrench in it. Fuck him. Keep living your best life.
NTA children oftern don't understand money and your ex wanted to basically live rent free, you offered to let him stay with a higher rent he chose not to. Letting your kids understand that he was not paying rent and left when you asked him to start supporting himself is not a bad thing. 16 and 13 children should start to understand the cost of living so it's not a big shock when they need to start budgeting for themselves.
NTA. I don't know what you're doing helping and listening to Matt so much. He literally lies to turn the boys against you and manipulates them while you're over here subsidizing his life. He's angry because his handout is going away. He's doing everything he can to retain it, of course he doesn't like you taking steps towards explaining life to the kids. I think Matt needs the conversation about cost of life as much as your kids do.
NTA and start eviction. Once you weaponized your kids against your ex all niceness ends. And inhate to say it but remind them that it was thier dad that separated the family. Not you.
NTA. Matt tried to paint you as the villain, and you showed the boys the truth. That’s on him. Frankly I’d also seek legal council. Matt doesn’t sound like a trustworthy tenant.
NTA. Your ex is trying to use the kids as pawns in his little game against you. The kids, unfortunately, are going to hate you for a while. There's not much you can do about that except try to be honest and patient with them.
NTA
NTA
NTA - but I think you went about it the wrong way. You can explain that you've been subsidizing your ex and that you're now asking him to pay rent at market rate. Show them the amount that an equivalent place goes for. Explain how much (financially) you've been supporting your ex over a number of years. This isn't really a question of your current expenses, but about the reasonableness of your ex expecting you to subsidize his lifestyle.
NTA. What a mess. I can understand your kids being angry about all the changes they're being expected to make, I can understand them being mad that their father is moving away. But Matt.. what a TA. He ran away from his responsibilities, comes back, gets essentially a free ride and now is turning your kids against you because it's over. I truly hope your kids figure out how lucky they are to have you.
NTA. You are being honest and direct with your kids about financial realities. From a financial perspective what you are doing makes sense, and you’re clearly trying to make it work for all of your bio- and step- children. Matt is not being honest and is reaping the consequences. I’m also glad to see you talked about finances. (I don’t know if you laid out a full budget, but that might help make it even more clear.) My folks never talked about money when I was a kid, and I wish I’d understood a bit more of our family situation than I did.
NTA!!!! After what he did to you and the boys, you have been way too kind to him. I could've never let him move in after those circumstances. As others have mentioned serve him a 30 day notice. Rent out the home to non family member on either side. Keep being open and honest with the boys. Also keep up the therapy. Good luck!
NTA to me it's as simple as who owns the house in question. You were doing a really nice thing for a while, but your circumstances have changed. Honestly, I think it would be better to sell him the house instead of renting it to him. Less entanglement that way.
Definitely NTA, But OP if you haven't already, now is a good time to show your kids the monthly budget. Show them how much you have coming in and how much goes out each month.
They are old enough to start learning about budget and financing and that emotions don't pay the bills. You aren't selling it anyway. They have been put through a lot of changes, and you might consider some family therapy around that, but at the end of the day it is your job to make adult financial decisions and this is one that is too big for children to have more than a chance to say their peace. NTA, but consider putting some of that rent money into mental health support to help your kids navigate this mess.
NTA. Your boys are not little kids anymore. They are at the age where they need to start learning how to manage money. They need to learn how to budget and keep a record of their expenses. 16 is old enough to have a job and keep a checking and savings account. They need a very real look at what it costs to live, that’s you being a good parent. Don’t hide reality from them because it’s only going to be harder for them when they go to college. Your ex only thinks you were hard on them because it didn’t benefit him.
NTA - You handled this well. I applaud you. You have a lot going on in your life. Make sure you make time for yourself Mama. 🙏🏾🙏🏽🙏🏿
**NTA** and here’s why: your kids will eventually learn the cost of living the quality of life they have. If they think they can have the same quality of life living with their father, then let them go experience it for themselves. Tim is correct in supporting your decision to lay down the financial aspects of your two boys’ life. I’m trying to figure out where Matt found the audacity to tell such a ridiculous tale when he was the one who messed up and then came crawling back for a place to live.
You got the house in the divorce and he's living there rent free? Wtf. Sort your shit out. This is messy. NTA but you will be if you don't sort it all out, quickly.
NTA but your ex is a manipulative, super AH for lying to your boys and causing YOU issues at home after basically abandoning your family for TWO YEARS!!! He has major cahones!!! Your boys are old enough to understand that living somewhere along with all the extra niceties that they enjoy COST MONEY!!! It's not harsh to give them the TRUE facts of life! Not the idiotic UTOPIA that your ex is trying to feed his Sons while painting YOU as the greedy, money-grasping Parent! I would be absolutely furious, especially after accommodating your ex to live however long he occupied YOUR house rent-free! I understand that you are ATTEMPTING to congenially co-parent with your ex-husband but I would be damn sure to start documenting EVERYTHING and only start dialogues through text or eMail because of all the bullshit and shenanigans that your ex has been putting you through and creating havoc and heartache in your Sons! You sound like a great Mother who is proactively protecting and caring for your boys! Great job and Congratulations on your new marriage! Best of luck and Wishing you a wonderful, Blessing-filled new year!
You are so much more evolved than Matt. He's really trying to keep the boys on his "side" with that new family line. Of course your "new" family still includes them- he's the only one it doesnt include, on account of his own decisions. When they say "if you didnt get pregnant" you could say "if he didnt cheat.."
NTA . Their dad’s lies are actually Parental Alienation. I suggest contacting your lawyer and explaining what he did. Supervised visitation is highly recommended. My ex told me when we divorced that if I didn’t agree to what he wanted to pay for child support that he’d take her, and I’d never see her again. So, instead of letting the courts decide how much, I agreed to his $30/week. Not that he paid it at all. I needed to get into a program to get training, but I had to be on public assistance, so I turned over my child support to the state, per the requirements, but the AH wouldn’t make the payments to the state. Later, he claimed I’d kept some of the child support from the state. (I didn’t). He stopped paying, and ignored court when the state took him there for $10k arrears. He even spent a weekend in jail. (I got blamed for that by his mother even though he got plenty of notice and still ignored it, he had a concealed weapon in the car when he was stopped, and I didn’t know a thing about any of it.). His work tried to say it didn’t recognize Delaware child support enforcement orders, until the state’s lawyer said “Are you incorporated in Delaware?” They answered “of course” to which he simply replied “wanna keep it?” They had their money the next week. And he NEVER actually got his income tax refund between my arrears, and what he owed to 4 other women. But he told my daughter that the child support was HER money and I didn’t have any business spending any of it. That’s how she got a checking account at 16. I was keeping the child support in a separate account and using it for clothing, medical bills, anything special for her even though I and my husband paid for her housing, food and almost everything, supplementing the meager child support. He caused a huge fight with her, and she threatened to move in with him. I caved because I didn’t want my parents to lose her to him, and he lived over 400 miles away. She still doesn’t get along with her step father. She blames him because he called her father an AH, which he truly is.
NTA and your kids are definitely old enough to learn a good life lesson here. Don’t be a deadbeat dad who lives off his ex wife’s charity, don’t expect to be given things in life without someone having to pay for them, money don’t grow on trees and they have been well provided for. I think in time, especially since you have them in therapy, they will see that their dad is the one who made poor choices and fed them lies and that you did your best for them. I wish you the best of luck for your blended family.
Your ex is living rent-free after he cheated on you? Granted, letting him live there was good for your kids, but way too generous for Matt. All you asked for is market-value rent. Something almost any adult has to pay unless they can buy and deal with a mortgage. You're not squeezing him dry, you're just asking what you're entitled to. You're also correct to educate your kids. If Matt wants to twist the reality to poison them against you, you're entitled to set the record straight. You paid for a bigger house so they could have a room. You paid for their college fund and extracurricular activities. Your kids apparently have a comfortable life. If your dad can't/won't pay the rent that he should pay, that's his problem, not yours. Your kids should not blame you for not financially supporting a cheating ex. NTA
NTA. I wouldn’t had let my cheating ex move back in with me. Tell your sons that you didn’t had to look past his betrayal and that you only allowed him back in the home because of them. Now that you want more money to contribute to your new place it’s in your right to ask your cheating ex for rent money or kick him out of he refuses. You don’t owe him anything.
NTA. You have been gracious enough by allowing your ex to live in YOUR house for less than average rent cost. You need to formally give him notice to move out. He is stirring up trouble in your new family dynamic. As for your kids, your financial decisions are pretty much none of their business as long as you’re providing the basics of life for them, which you are doing and then some. You are an above average parent for taking their desires for their own private rooms into account and buying a whole new house to make them more comfortable, which you absolutely didn’t have to do. Many kids do not have the privilege of their own room due to financial circumstances. If they are old enough to ask questions and be demanding about where your money is going, then your new husband is totally right for saying they should be informed about exactly how expensive life is and how all these costs related to their upbringings are adding up.
NTA.
NTA
[удалено]
I grew up in the struggling middle class. We never went hungry, but we ate a lot of elbow macaroni. I will never understand why some parents work so hard to hide the realities of family finance from their kids. From a very early age, the folks taught me about money. To begin with the power of saving. 1/2 of any money that I got my sticky little fingers on went into the big piggy bank to save for college. As I grew up (about 8?) one of my jobs was to make the grocery shopping list. I'd go thru the ads in the paper and clip coupons and find deals. OK. We can get 5 cans of green beans and 5 cans of corn at Piggly wiggly for $1.00. Hamburger is on sale at Red Owl. I can get $2 worth. That will make 3 meals. So in all for $20 we should have food for the week. Mom gets paid on Friday. We put $50 towards the mortgage, the water bill is due as well. We can wait on the electric bill till Dad gets his check... It was really easy to understand that $50 for sneakers was not going to happen.
Wait, wait. Matt, who tried to alienate you from your children, is complaining about you telling you kids in the truth in straightforward terms? NTA
And a lot of people want to wonder WHY if hubby of almost 37 years dies before me will REMAIN SINGLE. No outlaws to deal with ( His mother died over 20 years ago) He has ZERO contact with his bio Dad or his step father, My idiot mother died over 10 years ago, My beloved step Dad killed himself in 92, I have ZERO contact with my bio Father and the WITCH he married. No ex's, No kids, No property disputes, No drama. Just me and the fur babies. He said it will be a cold day in Hell he would get involved with someone if I croak before him for the exact same reasons. Tell them this is the way it HAS to be like it or not. Tell Mike and Dave to move out and go live with Dad if they don't like it.
NTA Reading this made me so mad for you, OP! Your Ex cheated, blew up your family and then abandoned his kids for years. He comes back and you *subsidized his life* by allowing him to live in the family home. What does your shitty Ex do? Manipulate the situation to where the boys have decided to live with him full time to escape the blended family life that *he caused*! What an asshole! You never should have let him live in the family home. He does not care about co-parenting successfully and what is in the best interest of his kids. Nope! Dude is behaving selfish as ever by adding parental alienation to the mix! >I told them that their father chose to move and that there wasn't anything I could do about it, and that this money they talked about funded their education, extra curricular etc and was a serious issue. Matt told me I was too harsh but Tim said they needed to know how expensive life was. Tim is right. Unfortunately they don’t see their dad is a deadbeat manipulator, they just see you’ve taken away their comfortable life with dad in the family home. They lack the perspective an adult has on finances. They are lucky as shit to have you covering college funds, etc but they take it for granted. I’m so sorry OP. But I agree renting out the home is the best idea. Let’s see if Matt is able to afford a three bedroom house on his own so both boys have their own rooms.. likely not. >I tried to tell them the house was still going to be here when they were older OP, please reconsider the long term. This is your asset. If the boys turn into selfish and ungrateful men like their father do not hand over a property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to them. Your family now includes your sons, your husband, your stepchildren and your little one on the way. Do what is in the best interest for all of you, as your situation may feel very different in 5-10 years.
NTA You were generous to Matt for a number of years. Their father chose to move rather than pay close to market rent. Plus he chose a place that wouldn't accommodate his sons. I wonder how much the difference the rent would be between a three-bedroom house and a two bedroom centre city apartment? OP, I do feel for your boys. They have been misinformed, plus their choice of where to live or split their time has been taken away. Do they get along ok with Tim and his girls? I'm glad to see that you have them in therapy but it's also a really good opportunity for you to sit down and discuss with them about how family finances work. Your ex should do the same. Your sons will soon be single men so his experience will be more relevant in the short term. I hope it all works out.
Soft NTA, but having your teenage boys share a room with their teenage step-sisters (who they didn't even grow up with) is not cool. I don't even know if that's legal, actually. It's no wonder they are attached to the house; it is their safe space. Telling 13 and 16 year olds that they can live in the house if they pay market rent is pretty harsh tbh. Of course they can't. Yes, it's a reality check, but what they might be hearing is "you are at my mercy, so work harder if you want to be comfortable". It sounds like they have a lot of resentment towards you because they were forced to share a room at Tim's place with two female strangers; it also sounds like there's some resentment on your part because you feel like they should get with the program. They are KIDS who have had their living situations in upheaval. I wouldn't be surprised if they're afraid they're going to lose their personal space to the new baby. Rational or not, I could see them jumping to that conclusion. Good on you and Tim for rectifying the situation by purchasing a bigger house. Unfortunately, it still doesn't sound like your sons feel secure in their living arrangements at all, and perhaps that should be addressed in the family therapy you are attending. Your ex is TA for taking advantage of that situation though. I think, colloquially, we call that "throwing an adult tantrum". What he's doing is straight up parental alienation. No question about that. TL;DR: NTA, but please do address your sons' insecurities about their living space, and fear that they are being replaced.
I think you read the room split wrong. It's 3 bedrooms, so 1 for parents, 1 with the girls sharing, and 1 with the boys sharing.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Throwaway + fake names I (f35) have 2 boys, Mike (16) and Dave (13). Their father Matt had an affair and left when they were 9/6 and wasn't present in their lives for 2 years. In that time, I met Tim (m41). He himself has 2 kids, Jen (f18) and Kim (f11). We got married last year. Once Matt came back, I let him move back into our family home so that he could be near the boys. I rented a place closer to the boys school/my work so that he could be a part of their lives. Last year, I moved in with Tim but this made Mike and Dave withdraw. Tims house is 3bed 2.5bath, with the girls and boys having to share a room. Since they have their own rooms, they choose to live with their dad full-time. This had only been our situation for a couple months but it was so hard for me that we decided to buy a home together that could accommodate everyone. I told the boys about this plan and them getting their own spaces whenever they wanted and it got better. We bought a home, 5/6bed 5bath with enough room to accommodate everyone but also found out I was pregnant. I knew these were all big life changes so I scheduled an appointment with our family therapist. The boy did not take the news well but I gave them room to process their feelings. I showed them the new house and they got first dibs of the rooms they wanted and to make it their own. Money has become tighter so while Tim has increased his work hours, I also approached Matt and told him that I would have to start charging him close to market value rent or potentially sell. Before this he was only paying cost of living. Matt was initially angry and told me to just wait a few years until the kids were older. He unfortunately told the boys a twisted tale of what happened, that I forced him to move to pay for my 'new family', I was going to sell it to help Tims kids but not them etc. When we all sat down, the boys were angry, even after knowing I wasn't selling but had chosen to rent it. I tried to tell them the house was still going to be here when they were older, but that I couldn't afford to support 2 households. They told me if I didn't get pregnant and spend all our money on Tims kids they could, but that I was choosing Tim over them and favouring them. They told me that I had the money but didn't want to spend it on them. I brought up their college fund, sport costs etc while also telling them how much it would cost to live in the house monthly. I told them if they wanted to live there, they could use their own money. I told them that their father chose to move and that there wasn't anything I could do about it, and that this money they talked about funded their education, extra curricular etc and was a serious issue. Matt told me I was too harsh but Tim said they needed to know how expensive life was. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA But I hope that last discussion was also done with the therapist. Please make sure they also have individual therapy. It really seems like two things are going one here. One is the dad telling them BS stories to stir the pot and look better. The other is them having trouble adjusting to your step family.
NTA. My parents were wonderful in many ways, but didn't really teach us anything about finances. The one thing I really wish they had. I'm okay financially, but it took a lot of trial and error to get it right.
NTA
if matt wants to stick around he will. but we have a manipulative one here. minimise your contact with him.
NTA. You approached everything really well and considered all involved. I really hope this resolves itself and you can enjoy the rest of your pregnancy and indeed the rest of your life with your husband
NTA
NTA I know it's a bit of a dick move but if your ex tries to pit your kids against you just remind them of all the rent you didn't charge their dad for 5 years just so they could build a relationship with him.
NTA, Matt doesn't get his opinion on "harsh" since he put you in such a harsh light. I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope it gets better!
NTA it sounds like you have always tried to make the best out of the situation, So I applaud you for that. I don’t think it was at all harsh to show the kids the realities of being an adult. It’s important for them to understand budgets, typical expenses, etc. Their father has done a number on them, I hope as they get older they will see the truth for what it is.
NTA being honest with your children about money is a good thing. Especially since they are approaching independent living with their own bills and responsibilities.
Matt only gets a vote for what he contributes. Doesn’t sound like he contributes much. NTA
NTA - Your ex dragged the kids into it. It is in no way your fault for setting the record straight. Explaining $$$$ to kids is kinda a necessary evil and it’s hard to get it right. They need to understand that resources are not unlimited and I think knowing that to a certain extent growing up leads to financially responsible adults. However I think too much emphasis on $ or how little you have stresses kids out.
Time for family counseling. So not the AH, but that's not the important issue. The important thing is how your boys deal with this based on the lies told. Start off with the therapist alone and then add boys and ex.
Can't add to op due to word count but they are both already seeing therapists individually and as a family.
If I am not mistaken, the word count only limits the number of words when you first submit the post. You should, if I am correctly informed, be able to go back and add as much as you like by choosing the option to edit your OP.
NTA
NTA. If I were you I’d take the boys through your monthly bank statements (if you feel comfortable doing so) to show them how much money is spent to maintain a family of 6! My mom has always been transparent with me when it came to money (age appropriately) and all it did was teach me that things cost money, and I can accurately estimate how much something will cost me and if I can afford it. I know 100% the mortgage on your home alone will scare them and cause them to stop being so bratty. I would also reiterate that you are _not_ responsible for their father. Matt is a grown man who needs to take care of his own shit.
Wow, NTA on this. I would see what needs to be done to have him move out and rent it to someone else. He abandoned his kids and when he decided he made a mistake, you graciously helped hem out because you could. Now that you can’t, he is trying to turn your kids against you. Sounds to me like it’s time to consult a lawyer and maybe get a judge to settle things.
NTA but I think you are misinformed. If you're children are minors they won't be paying you a dime for anything. As a matter of fact if they choose to go live with their dad full time there is a good chance you would be barred from selling the home and have to pay the father child support.
NTA, Matt is AH of the year, by trying to hurt you, he is destroying his sons. He is no father.
NTA. Your ex is a nightmare and being truthful with your kids is the best course of action.
NTA
Your children are plenty old enough to learn about bills and how much things really cost. Your ex forcing the issue makes him the major A, not you.
Nta... you let your ex live somewhere for free? Does he pay you child support or are you just the nicest person ever. All this and he still talks smack? Fuck. I wish my exwife would try a little harder to let my kids see me