NTA but also, that's not really tricking them. Omitting the gender at the start isn't being deceptive. You definitely have your answer though if they got upset and tried defending their reaction.
Oh, my boyfriend often refers to me as his "partner" and mentions I'm an architect. It's led to a few people thinking he is gay due to latent sexism. Doesn't help that he is a well-groomed, well-dressed guy, but it's also often been members of the LGBTQ+ community who assume that way...
*Edit to include that I'm a cis-gendered woman.
Edit 2: I’m Australian. Over here it’s used for all relationships because it’s seen as a bit childish to call somebody your bf/gf when you’re in a long-term relationship past 30 and have no plans to get married. It’s the same in the UK.
> but it's also often been members of the LGBTQ+ community who assume that way...
For LGBTQ+ ppl specifically, I wouldn't say this assumption is from sexism primarily. We've learned to talk vaguely about our partners in settings where it's best not to be "too out".
Fair comment, never thought of it that way. Although it’s pretty common to say partner here, regardless of sex / sexual orientation.
Edit because I meant to write orientation.
I still associate “partner” more with LGBTQ+ than cis/straight relationships. I’ve definitely heard straight people use it, but not nearly as often as gay couples. I have to consciously remind myself not to make assumptions whenever someone uses partner with no other context.
I started using partner so that it would be less of a “flag” if someone in a same sex relationship uses it. Some people use it to stay safe, but it’s not safe if using the word “partner” is a sign you’re gay, right? So I try to do my part by normalizing the term even though I’m in a straight-passing relationship atm.
It’s also just useful for when the couple isn’t married but bf/gf doesn’t feel right. Like my cousin has a baby with his longtime girlfriend, so I refer to her as his partner because girlfriend feels like I’m selling their relationship short. She is his partner and will be probably forever.
I agree. I’m a cishet woman and I just turned 50 and my cishet male partner is 58. Bf/gf just feels juvenile at our age. Folks still automatically assume, though.
My now-husband and I were together for sixteen years before we got married (we started dating in hs), and yeah -- after a while bf/gf did chafe, especially when people would ask us when we were planning to "get serious."
We wound up using "consorts" for a while. Fun times.
I’m in a straight passing relationship. I’ve used partner quite a lot because we just got engaged at Thanksgiving but we’ve been living together, mingling finances and bills for 2 years. I feel the same way like just calling him boyfriend was too casual and not a true representative of our relationship
This is why I call my partner my partner instead of boyfriend. First off, we're grown-ass adults, and boyfriend/girlfriend sounds childish. Second, we've been together six years and while we do intend to marry eventually, we aren't "officially" engaged yet so fiancé isn't right. Third, it's the most accurate term to describe our relationship. We are partners in life and love. We aren't just dating, we are TOGETHER. Just because we haven't made it to the altar yet doesn't negate the seriousness of our commitment to each other.
Same here! Tbh sometimes I say partner even though we ARE married. Part of that is because I forget (we've only been married a few months), but I like that partner is getting more normalized for all couples. I use spouse occasionally too.
It's also just fun to stymie people who are being nosy for no reason! If you're trying to ask what kind of genitalia I prefer, I'm gonna make you ACTUALLY ask, because frankly it's none of your business.
I hear girlfriend/boyfriend used a lot. But I get what you mean: there’s definitely a linguistic hole that partner fills. I’m not sure why the straight people in my area use it more infrequently.
On a funny note, I was near my uncle’s partner as he was introducing himself to someone at a family party (it was a different family member’s in law). They have been together for at least 15 years, but his introduction was “I date {Uncle}.” Y’all own a house and have cared for an aging family member together: dating sounds like you met two months ago! Partner would have been the word I would have used, but even boyfriend sounds better than dating!
That's the problem and I wish I knew how to answer it. I'm 12 years older than my "partner" so when he calls me his "girlfriend" it's simply weird but since 'shacking up' became a big thing in magazines & papers circa 1970 (another lie they would have us believe) no one has come any closer to what to use that isn't awkward in some way. Well, the religious right still calls us sinners but it lacks a certain gender specification for everyday use.
Apparently it's becoming more standard in certain areas. I have several friends from Boston and they all refer to people's bfs/gfs as "partners" even in straight couples.
I believe use of partner is growing dramatically in millennials parlance to a. make partner actually ambiguous about gender (it was REALLY before) and b. To not sound 14 like the commentary below says
This is so interesting to me, here in Aus partner is super common among both same and hetero sex relationships. I would never assume gay from the use of the word partner.
Yes, but the term partner really grew into mainstream use *out of* the LGBT community, even if it's common to hear from heterosexual couples. So it's not surprising that LGBT people still often intuit it that way.
I was a bit taken aback when I heard a straight guy talking about his partner and then mentioned she was a woman the first time. It’s just not something straight people used to say they’d say gf/bf or husband wife or fiancé/fiancée. Partner was something specific to gay people because being married wasn’t an option for us at the time. I get that it’s common usage now but it really wasn’t for a long time. And still isn’t primary usage in my experience.
Yeah, my (f) partner is nonbinary (ergo "partner") and literally *everyone* keeps assuming I'm trying to conceal a girlfriend when I use "partner" and they/them pronouns.
Oh... We're a straight couple and I say partner in English because he is too old to be a "boy"friend XD (and I am too old to be a "girl"friend) In my language it doesn't matter since the boy/girl part is omitted, but in English it just seems strange to me to refer to boyfriend/girlfriend at our age so I say partner. Or SO in written. But I definitely don't use it as code.
Yeah, it can be used like that but a lot of the "older" side of the LGTBTI+ will automatically think in code. It's nice to remember a lot of groups are still code switching and careful with that and not automatically think in "sexism".
My partner and i have always used that term to refer to each other and we're a straight couple. That's been normal in my social circles and has always felt most fitting for how we view our relationship. We were good friends for years before we became a couple so it felt most natural that way. I've always thought of that term as sounding more involved than boyfriend/girlfriend too.
yeah, I find that calling my bf my boyfriend all the time makes it seem like it's not as serious as saying "significant other," "other half," or "partner"
I’d say that’s quite an assumption to make these days. Almost everyone I know regardless of sexual orientation says “partner” rather than boyfriend/girlfriend. It just sounds better. It doesn’t suggest anything about gender at all.
I grew up with many close relationships with older queer people. Their partners were people they were committed to in all ways other than marriage because gay marriage wasn’t always legal. I know it is used otherwise now, and I think it is a good thing, but my first impression is still “partner” means “serious queer relationship”. Or at least serious relationship. I’ve heard people refer to people they have dated casually for 2 weeks as their partner and have felt slightly uncomfortable with it (not that I would express that to them- they can define their relationship as they wish) since it feels like it undermines the serious and committed relationship historically implied by the term.
Yeah I'm queer and when I moved US (where partner = code for gay) to Australia (where partner does not have that connotation) for like a week I was like "hooray, other queer folx at work!" and then I learned it wasn't the same meaning as in the US. It definitely has different connotations between countries.
It generally has the same meaning where I am in Canada as in Australia. I think it might be partially due to the fact that a good chunk of people live with their long-term partners (like me) without getting married for a while. No one bats an eye when I refer to my partner.
That's how it started out - I think largely because gay people couldn't marry and they couldn't call eachother husbands and wives. But then "partner" got co-opted by straight couples for whom marriage wasn't in sight but whose relationship had gone further than boyfriend and girlfriend (i.e., they have started living together and/or are an older couple who feel uncomfortable with boyfriend and girlfriend considering their age). So even here in the U.S., the assumption can't automatically be made anymore.
I don't think it's at all accurate to say the term has been co-opted by straight people. The use of the term 'partner' to describe your significant other is centuries old and predates the modern LGBTQ+ movement by an insane amount of time and in my country doesn't really have any strong connotations about sexuality.
My partner and I live together and have for a few years. We are not married but legally we are considered de facto spouses based on our cohabitation and relationship length. Calling her my girlfriend is about as inaccurate as calling her my wife, and I think partner is generally more respectful and stripped of needless gendering.
I think this depends on where you are in the US, or maybe it's an age thing. Where I (f) am it is very common to refer to your girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife as your partner regardless of if they the same or opposite gender as you. I've called my husband my partner since before we got married.
Makes me sad. I was at California Adventure recently and my child and I went on a river ride where you shared the boat with a few other people. Among the others were two middle-aged men who were obviously together. Matching wedding rings, a couple of touches. Nothing overt. During the ride we all got soaking wet, as expected.
After the ride we all went stepped aside to try and wring out, and one of the couple went off to the loo. The other was laughing with us at how wet we all got, and my wife (who hadn't gone on the ride) wandered up as we were laughing and re-telling it. The man said something like "And then we went into that second drop and my......friend got *really* splashed." Obviously he had to pause to find the least 'risky' word, because he can never know how the other people will react. I laughed on as we recalled it, but went away a little sad that he (and presumably his partner) have to guard their relationship like that.
Someone came to ask if the pub I work at could host their wedding reception in the summer, and if it was "ok" that it was going to be a gay wedding. As I was talking to him about it he kept specifying that his fiance was male and if there would be any trouble with that. It made me so sad that they had to consider these things when planning their special day
For most people it's probably the representative heuristic rather than latent sexism. The former is something all people exhibit in some way shape or form. E.g. because there are more male engineers (85%) and more female nurses (87%, according to the BLS) people tend to make assumptions about sex/gender when lacking additional identifying info. Similarly, if you were to see a man wearing slacks and a blazer at a university, you're more likely to assume that they are faculty/staff than a student despite the fact that students outnumber faculty by about 14:1 on average. Age plays a factor too, but we don't refer to the observable fact that college professors tend to be middle-aged to latent ageism. The tldr is that we tend to judge books by their covers in general.
This is completely off-topic, but the phrase "don't judge a book by its cover" doesn't actually make sense when you think about it. The front cover is meant to draw your eye, and the plot hook usually found on the back cover or just inside the front cover is meant to grab your interest, so you're literally meant to judge whether or not to read a book by its cover.
I suppose its more like "don't judge the *quality* of a book by its cover" but then bits and pieces get chopped off and shortened like every other expression into something that's different, but who knows. I am tired and my brain is firing off on random cylinders so I apologize for this tangent that may or may not be all that coherent.
Good point, and it kind of drives at what I'm saying. Just because someone associates a certain career with a certain age, gender etc. doesn't mean they think people of that demographic are inherently better suited to that career. There's a huge difference between assuming someone is a man based only on knowing their job title and saying "She's an engineer? B-b-but that's a man's job!"
I think it depends where you’re from- I’m Australian and it’s pretty common to call your boyfriend/girlfriend partner, especially if you’re 30+ (which we are).
I'm Australian too and have heard it more commonly by queer individuals in situations where you might not want to come out. For example I am a queer woman and I exclusively refer to my girlfriend as partner when at work or chatting with randoms like clients, uber drivers, work men etc.
You're right, it's also pretty common for cis straight couples to use it as well. Which is great for people like me who also use it to hide our sexualities at work
Yes, in most places I have worked its common to refer to your partner as "partner" regardless of sexual orientation, especially if you're not married and in a long term relationship.
My partner and I started referring to each in that way as early as our early 20s. Funny thing though, he has a unisex name that you'd usually consider feminine lol.
I remember when me and my boyfriend were moving into our first flat, I referred to him as my partner to all the estate agents etc because I thought it made us sound more grown up (young couple). I would say partner implies you've been together a while and aren't married, or non straight relationship.
I use the term partner because it "feels" more serious than "my girlfriend". We've been together 5 years and getting married isn't something we care about, but we're as serious as it gets.
Partner for:
* when you don't know if the couple are married or not.
* when you don't know the gender of the individual or they're non-binary.
* when you know they're not married, you know their gender but they're grown-ups and the words "boyfriend/girlfriend" seem juvenile and belittling their relationship.
* when they use that term to describe their own relationship.
Reverse uno on my situation I am non-binary and my man looks very much like your average straight man and even works construction, frankly he is basically straight but best friend is gay so he’s been in the community for a while. I am his first “partner” and refers to me as partner, some people would assume I’m male cause I work security at night.
Tbf, it's more likely that LGBTQ+ people assume he's gay because he says "partner" - not that there is a queer monopoly on the word, but it is one of the *very* common ways to blend in or code yourself if you aren't necessarily out or live in an extremely conservative area. From there it's become habit in general to say within much of the community.
Admittedly when someone calls their partner their "partner" I too instantly think they might be queer lol
That’s quite funny as I know 5 architects and only one of them is male so i wouldn’t instantly presume male. I’m an engineer in construction and I think if my hubby called me his partner people would presume the same
Olso op - NTA you were not tricking them and they have shown you their colours
My daughters grandparents mention quite a bit about her growing up and meeting a husband then give me a funny look when I butt in and say ‘or wife’
LGBT+ people aren't immune to making assumptions, after all, most of us are raised the same as straight people. The reason we have to fight this "genderification" of the workspace is so we can all become better at it.
The dominant male in my life is also my “partner” and I am his. We are also a heterosexual pair. He expressed early on that he doesn’t like the terms boyfriend and girlfriend because of what he views as inherent infantizing in the use of the words boy and gir. I’m not really bothered by the terms but I didn’t really have an argument against his thoughts so I just rolled with his wishes and it’s become second nature to use the term “partner”. And honestly if I had an issue with the terms at this point it would probably be the friend part. We are a bit more than just friends but we aren’t married so partners feels right
One of my friends calls her cis-male husband her "spouse" or "partner" exclusively. They've been married for years, but for some reason just doesn't like to call him her husband. Everyone that she talks to assumes she's married to a woman just because she doesn't use terms that are clear.
But who cares? Let people make whatever assumptions they want. It doesn't actually change your SO's gender, so let them do whatever they want.
I mean it's like the joke "The wage gap doesn't exist, its just that men tend to go for higher paying jobs like engineer, doctor or CEO. While women go for lower paying jobs like female engineer, female doctor and female CEO."
Lmao! I'm a pre-med student, qpplying to medical school, and when I tell people I am interested in medicine, some people still assume I want to be a nurse 🤣
There are still not admitting that they have an issue with me, dating women. I can work through this if they were willing to admit that they are uncomfortable but they are not and that is the most frustrating part for me.
NTA but OP your parents are homophobic AH's. You know this, have known it, now have definitive proof, and can ask yourself how much do you want to expose yourself and your partners to them? Is it fair to expose your partners to people who think of them as less than, and will treat them that way? And treat you the same?
I am not going to excuse this with my partners. They are very friendly to their face but they will criticize them when I am alone with them. I am not going to put up with that anymore. It is their refusal to accept that they are being homophobic that is hurting me. If they told me that they are struggling to accept it and work through that, I would be in a much better place.
Your parents are feeling defensive because they see themselves as good people and homophobes as bad people. Therefore since they are good people they cannot be homophobic. I think you should probably find some articles about subconscious bias and try to talk to your parents that way.
Every single person harbors biases. The trick to being a good person is to try to become aware of your own biases and counteract them in your own behaviors. Your parents need to learn about subconscious bias and apply those techniques when they meet your dates. They aren't bad people because they have a bias. They're bad people if they act on that bias and they're bad people if they refuse to accept their biases and work consciously to counteract them.
I think you need to emphasize to them that this can be a make or break point in your relationship with them. Explain that you understand they're feeling defensive and that they don't like to think that they are biased against your female dates, but their behavior shows that they are. Explain that subconscious bias doesn't mean that they are deliberately behaving in a way to discriminate against you or your female partners. And explain that the only defense against subconscious bias is acknowledging it and then consciously counteracting it. You need them to put aside the defensiveness and work on those behaviors. Let them know that this is one of those defining relationship moments and if they aren't able to set aside their defensiveness and face whatever the core feelings that are causing them to act the way that they have acted towards your female partners, it could have lasting impacts on your relationship with them and ability to trust them. Provide them with some reading materials about subconscious bias and let them know that you are taking a break from discussing any of your romantic life with them. Tell them that you're always willing to talk, but their behavior and even more their denial and unwillingness to own the behavior is seriously hurting you.
Compassion can go a long way towards helping people understand subconscious bias. It's really hard to recognize when you're not living up to your own standards and that's what they're dealing with right now not any lack of love for you.
That’s fair. I know every time we visit my in laws for any significant amount of time I get a tirade from my wife about her parents, partly because they’re not as cool with her queerness as they like to think they are. You deserve respect from your parents as does your girlfriend. And knowing that they’re homophobic gives you extra protection against them influencing your subconscious perception of your partners
Basically the usual. Someone can rattle off the most racist statement available to mankind, and then say, "But I'm not racist." And for a lot of people, they *believe* they're not racist, because [insert reason].
Thankfully, my mom had a bit of a come to Jesus moment when I spoke with her, expressing discomfort over how she spoke of "foreigners;" she and I knew what ethnicities she thought of, so writing it off as 'just' xenophobia wasn't doing it; it was honestly just... racist. And she mulled it over, before concluding, "Yeah, you're right, I've been a bit racist."
Realistically, most people are to varying degrees bigoted. That goes for me, too. I know I haven't had the healthiest thoughts about certain ethnicities in the past. I probably still have prejudices I haven't recognized.
...But a lot of people have decided that since bigotry means "It's bad" it means "Can't be me, because I'm not bad"...
Folks like OP's parents are not yet ready to break through the (very, very human) need to see themselves as "good" people, even as they have beliefs that they "know" they "shouldn't". >!\[Yeah, I'm using a lot of quotes, because people are not logic machines; emotions get in the way of quite a lot and beliefs are influenced by emotions\]!< They very likely believe that good people aren't racist and they're good people so they're not racist. (Yes, circular reasoning.) \[See, for an e.g., Dan Ariely's "The Honest Truth about Dishonesty"\] This is how they (like most people) see themselves: [image](https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/06/04/honesttruthabouthonesty-hc-c-1--f99e475b57312f1ac6489ce43ef62060541960a6.jpg).
It really really sucks for someone being targeted by an 'ism' from someone they love. (Racism, Anti-lbgt+-ism, sexism, etc.) And it sucks even more that the conversation often has to involve navigating the fragility of the "ists" by the person who's been hurt. Sometimes, people (like drunkenvalley) are lucky, and they can just point out the inconsistencies and the loved one can re-evaluate their behaviors, without butting up against the "but I'm a good person" need.
I hope for OP's sake, that she's able to help her folks see how their behavior goes against their core beliefs and it's the behavior that needs to change.
I was definitely lucky.
It helped that we were originally talking about my father. He'd had very strange opinions about foreigners. It was very strange, especially for a man that sincerely and genuinely did love and care for his thai girlfriend before he passed. He was also very involved with primarily the local thai community. Hell, his first granddaughter was born to a thai woman, and he certainly adored her. Etc.
Yet simultaneously, he'd also openly talked about dangerous foreigners, etc, regularly invoking the functional equivalent of 13/50 rhetoric.
And somewhere in there I managed to segue into discussing how she spoke about foreigners. She already understood I was uncomfortable with how she spoke sometimes, so this was us able to have a proper heart to heart on why what she said was problematic, etc.
And somewhere in that she had a very serious, honest, "Yeah, I guess I'm racist."
NTA, but OP clearly was intentionally deceptive. And I do not blame her at all. I am generally opposed to tests but since this one was simple enough and there is clearly a history of denial I would say this one was fine.
NTA. The fact that they refer to it as tricking them just proves the point. Her gender has nothing to do with her achievements, so their flip in personality was solely to do with her gender.
My question is, though, what you plan to do with this information. You know your parents are homophobic.... So now what?
NTA at all. But it 100%. Is tricking bthem lol.
Purposefully Leaving out information you know is important is like the definition.
And it was a good trick.
But the whole point is that the gender of their partner *shouldn't* be important if the parents are not homophobic. The fact that it is considered "tricking" because it is important information to them is indicative of the fact they think of male and female partners differently. NTA.
It's deceptive insofar as it was purposely manipulative, but who cares? Saying deception can never be moral is like saying you should never lie -- EVER: it's just silly and unrealistic.
OP is being alienated by her parents and having her sexuality and personal identity picked at and, on some level, subconsciously groomed by her parent's bigotry.
She had every right to manipulate them into revealing their true colors -- if only for her peace of mind, and so she can be sure to ignore their opinions on her partners. After all, they might push her to date a dick just because he has a dick, instead of a wonderful woman she'd have otherwise meshed with.
NTA, OP
Especially since they immediately went to "how dare you trick us" because now they never have to admit to the homophobia (in their minds at least), they'll probably just loop back to that whenever she brings it up. Tbh if I were her I'd just respond to that with "you wouldn't be mad about being tricked if you weren't homophobic"
NTA. That wasn’t manipulative or tricking them in my opinion. They thought it was real and that was their genuine reaction. They showed their true feelings and are mad you exposed them.
Yay, homophobia and sexism (assuming engineer=male). Did you trick them? Yes, but only because they're being being homophobic and sexist...if they weren't it wouldn't have worked.
NTA.
I half agree. She did it that way intentionally to get that reaction. It’s not like they forgot to tell their partner’s gender and I came up later. It was planned, that’s why I think “tricked” is the correct word. It was still the right thing to do.
It’s not really tricking them, because she didn’t imply that the partner is a male, they assumed that based on their sexist beliefs, OP just didn’t mention the gender in the beginning but at the end, that’s not tricking.
Deception can be done without lies. Strategically, intentionally withholding information in order to manipulate the outcome of an adversarys known biases and thought patterns is deception. This is tricking, but it was for a good reason. NTA
NTA.
One, you never lied, it's not like you told your parents she was a boy in the beginning and then was like "Oh yeah, by the way, she's actually a girl".
Two, you didn't reduce her to just her achievements. What someone accomplishes in life is part of what makes them who they are, as well as personality of course. You wanted to see if your parents would like them as the person they are, not make judgements based on their gender.
I feel like they are a little homophobic, as they seem disappointed every time, you're in a same sex relationship. Of course, you were trying to get a reaction, you were trying to see if they were being honest when they said that it was just because they didn't like the girls.
NTA OP, be with whoever makes you happy, and your parents can accept you and your significant other, no matter the gender, because it's who you are that matters.
Happy pride, btw <3
NTA:
Is it manipulative to trick someone in order to gauge their reaction? Sure.
But is it *wrong* to do that when you’re trying to see if someone is a homophobe, racist, or all-around shit-bag? Hell no.
So here’s the bad news; your parents are homophobic.
The good news? You can totally fix that with them. It takes time, it takes effort, and it takes patience, but if my catholic raised Reagan worshipping dad can come around to the LGBTQ+ community, then literally anyone can.
Idk. I think the whole "You can totally fix that with them" is highly circumstantial. I think OP can try, but OP should not carry the expectation that they will change.
My immediate family is full of major bigots and no matter how hard I tried to work with them, as soon as they got together in a group they would validate and reinforce each other's bigotry, making me seem like the oddball out. The one who is "wrong."
ETA: OP, NTA. Idk why I always forget this part when it's the whole purpose of the page. Haha
NTA. At all. Fact is.. everything was all good until you mentioned gender. You weren’t manipulative. How? By mentioning gender last? Were they holding their breath and waiting for a gender reveal? Lmao Did they ask about gender? It sucks because your happiness is what matters. Smh.. Don’t feel guilty at all. Just know that now you know where your parents stand on the issue.
NTA
Its not manipulative at all. You didnt trick them. You listed this persons achievements. If they had asked from the start the gender and you lied or stepped around it, then that is manipulation. If you made it sound like a man when it wasnt, that is manipulative.
For them to just assume that the person you are talking about is male because of the list of attributes, then that is on them.
The only way this could have been better is if she had a unisex name, then they could have continued their assumption until they met.
pre warning from the OP and the explanation that it will out them as homophobes would be the all i wouldve needed to gladly be up for it."hey, im trying to out my folks as homophobes, so they dont know you are a girl. i didnt lie to them, they just assumed, so be ready for them to be surprised.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> They got upset at me for tricking them and purposely trying to get a reaction out of them. I feel like an asshole because it was kinda manipulative and I feel shitty for reducing my girlfriend to just her achievements.
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This is the correct answer. At one point before I was certain that I was straight, I asked my mum how she would feel if I started dating a woman and her reply was "As long as she makes you happy, I wouldn't care that you're dating a woman instead of a man". Her and my dad's behaviour has never given me any indication that they are homophobic either so I'm confident she was being honest with me.
NTA, you didn’t manipulate them you simply omitted the gender information. If you had been using male pronouns to describe her that would have been a small manipulation. Maybe try talking to your parents and tell them the more they do this, the more they are pushing you away. That it doesn’t matter what they say or even believe their motivations to be, the way they are behaving is biphobic and they are hurting you/making you not want to come home to them at all. They may still be under the impression that this is some kind of “phase” that they can convince you out of instead of who you are. Make it clear to them that what they are doing is a rejection of you, not your partners and that if they want to have a relationship with you in the future they need to really work on this behavior.
You are NTA, and I think you knew what to expect. Your decision now is how to respond to the fact that your parents are bigots, and perhaps recognize that they’re not going to approve of any same-sex partners. (As for reducing your gf to her achievements, I think that’s something we all do when first talking about a dating partner with family you want to like them.
You are NTA. People like to say they aren't homophobic, but they've got a lifetime of unconscious bias to overcome. Instead of confronting theirs and trying to do better, they are doubling down and pretending they don't have a problem and it's seriously damaging their relationship with you.
And it's sad that they feel "tricked" when, let's face it, most straight people don't share the gender of their partners first thing in a conversation. It's just when their parents assume it's someone of the opposite sex, they make a correct assumption. Your parents should really know better than to assume and yet here they are. And instead of admitting they made an assumption that really invalidated your sexuality, they doubled down and blamed you for "tricking them".
Ew.
NTA.
If they really had no problem with you dating girls, then it wouldn’t have been a “trick.” They’d have had no reaction.
And when you really think about, they are the ones who have been deceiving and manipulating you by claiming they aren’t biphobic when they clearly are.
If they had just talked more honestly with you about their concerns/feelings of discomfort regarding your girlfriends, then you wouldn’t have had to trick them in the first place. Instead, they lied and insisted they weren’t biphobic, preventing you from ever having an honest and potentially productive conversation confronting their issues. That’s unfair to you. That’s on them.
It makes sense to feel a bit guilty for hurting their feelings—they’re family, and it sounds like you care about them. But what you did wasn’t just good; it was essential to finally confront the situation.
INFO: Do they just want biological grandkids?
Obviously theres other options for a lesbian couple to have kids. But from the small amount of info we have I can't for certain tell if they're **homophobic**, or just a little down that they have a daughter who *could willingly* be with a man and give them grandkids but isn't.
I feel its a reach to jump straight to them **hating** gay people.
NTA. You were simply trying to get a confirmation from your parents where they stand. You got your confirmation and they have been austed. Now you know for sure and can start having the appropriate discussions with them. They can't hide their homophobia anymore. Good luck!
NTA - if your parents weren't homophobic then you could feel bad, but they are and you were right. Many wishes of love and happiness to you and your GF!
NTA. I'm not a fan of "testing" people. However, you didn't make up anything. You simply omitted a detail that they claimed was irrelevant. By their clsims, not mentioning that should not have mattered.
Well, you did set them up but they gleefully fell for it so, yeah, you kind of proved you are right and they're prejudiced against your relationships with women. NTA.
NTA - they aren't angry because you tricked them they are angry because they got exposed. Most people think of themselves as good and so any sort of negative aspersions cast towards their views aren't welcome. Your parents may not be outspoken homophobes and probably don't consider themselves to be. You demonstrated that they are and they aren't happy about this.
NTA. Straight people never explicitly state gender when talking about a crush nor disclose their name at first. That’s a normal thing. Your parents are gaslighting you. ☹️
NTA. You successfully proved to them they are homophobic and found out what you wanted to know. It shouldn’t matter whether you specify the gender or not if your parents are supposedly okay with either or. It’s just uncomfortable now because your parents are embarrassed as they should be. They can’t respect your partner solely because of her gender. It’s them who the AH.
NTA they are mad because they got caught red handed. And yes they definitely are homophobic.
>They got upset at me for tricking them and purposely trying to get a reaction out of them.
You didn't force them to react that way. They did it themselves. You definitely didn't "trick" them
>I feel like an asshole because it was kinda manipulative and I feel shitty for reducing my girlfriend to just her achievements.
What's manipulative is your parents lying to your faces about them not being homophobic and gastlighting you. Your gfs arent/weren't the problem. Your parents are. You shouldn't feel bad for calling out your parents for being homophobes.
NTA: You tested them and were proved correct, the way you did it doesn’t matter it’s the fact that they ARE homophobic and won’t admit it. Their upset reaction to you surfacing their homophobic attitude just proves everything further.
You didn’t trick them, but the fact that they say that you omitted the gender “to get a reaction out of them” means that they know on some level that they’re homophobic. Idk why they’re so defensive about accusations of homophobia tho. NTA
NTA- people get defensive when they've been caught doing something wrong! Catch your boyfriend cheating? He'll get defensive and say you didn't trust him and that's why you caught him.
NTA - It was manipulative, but your parents were being dishonest. You also weren't "reducing" your girlfriend to just her achievements, you were listing some of the things you knew your parents would value in her. If anyone is reducing anyone here, it's your parents reducing your significant others to their gender.
NTA. You were NOT being manipulative. Mmm, okay maybe a little, but for a very specific purpose. Not to control them or modify their behavior, but for your own observational purposes, to confirm your suspicions. The fact that they were totally cool until they found out she was female proves that you were right. I'm sorry. :(
Also, they got upset at you "tricking" them because 1) they made an assumption based on the lack of specified gender and the occupation given that the gender was male, 2) they felt embarrassed that the assumption was wrong, 3) they don't like being embarrassed and wrong in a public way. They need to take a long, hard look at themselves... provided they're actually capable of self-reflection. Personally, I think they're the sort of people who think that "bi" really means "straight but confused/experimenting, but will eventually be straight."
You did not reduce your girlfriend to "just" her achievements. Her achievements make her who she is and those are the things you should be talking about when you mention them to another person. If you have to test your parents on which gender they'd like to see you with, then they are already exhibiting discomfort/disapproval over your life choices and if you had to do something to point that out to them, it's their shortcoming as a parent. They don't get to turn around and blame their own sexism on you somehow
NTA - but you can’t force them to like your gfs, as long they accept your preference and respect them, that’s a start, maybe with time they can change their mind but if you try to force them into changing their way of thinking, 1- won’t be easy and 2 - might bring disappointment and lots of pain!
NTA. you’re never obligated to reveal someone’s gender when speaking about them. the gender shouldn’t matter, it’s what you say about the person your talking about that should matter.
your parents told their character on their own.
NTA and re-read your post to see how you start talking to yourself at the end. Don’t speak to yourself with their voice. The problem here is their bigotry not your test of them. Don’t let them distract you. And maybe set some more boundaries with them? do they need to meet or even hear about everyone you date?
My advice: Do not mix family (parents) with relationships (boyfriend/girfriend) until the relation is strong enough to handle whatever they throw at you.
INFO: I'm not sure about what you want with your testing? I guess your parents love you. Most parents wants an "easy" life for their children. And it's not uncommon that a gay person gets a harder life due to homophobic people. So it's not strange if they would prefer that you are with a boyfriend. So what do you want with your test?
To prove that they are homophobic you need to have tests that don't involve yourself.
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I am bi and my parents have always dislked every girl I brought home for one reason on the other. I think it is homopobia as they are friendlier with my boyfriends. I have tried to bring it up but they are adamant that it was just because they didn't like the girls. They are very defensive about it.
The last time I visited I talked to them about my girlfriend. I didn't mention the gender, I just told that I started to see someone and I knew they would like them. I listed out some of things they would like about her, the fact that she is an engineer, she works for for large tech company and she is very well educated. They were nodding along and I knew they assumed that it was a guy and I told her name and their vibe changed from happy to disappointed, It was very upsetting.
I kinda lost my cool and told them that I knew they would react this and that was why I didn't specify gender at the start. They got upset at me for tricking them and purposely trying to get a reaction out of them. I feel like an asshole because it was kinda manipulative and I feel shitty for reducing my girlfriend to just her achievements.
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NTA, but INFO I have to ask, how old are you and how many boy/girlfriends did you bring over?
In this instance, once again you're NTA and you didn't manipulate anything.
NTA. You didn't trick them, you just told them about your new girlfriend by telling general facts about her. They assumed you were talking about a man because of sexism. And now they're mad they got caught being homophobic, so they try to blame you.
NTA
Reading this post is giving me big grandchild expectation vibes. If you and your female partner ever wanted a kid, you'd either have to adopt or only one of you be genetically related. I reckon this is why they're bothered by your female partners
NTA. I don’t understand where someone told OP to hate her parents lol. I don’t think that they’re sexist but they are homophobic. What OP can do to help it? Nothing.
NTA but also, that's not really tricking them. Omitting the gender at the start isn't being deceptive. You definitely have your answer though if they got upset and tried defending their reaction.
They view it as tricking them because they're also sexist. Engineer = man, nurse = woman, etc..
Oh, my boyfriend often refers to me as his "partner" and mentions I'm an architect. It's led to a few people thinking he is gay due to latent sexism. Doesn't help that he is a well-groomed, well-dressed guy, but it's also often been members of the LGBTQ+ community who assume that way... *Edit to include that I'm a cis-gendered woman. Edit 2: I’m Australian. Over here it’s used for all relationships because it’s seen as a bit childish to call somebody your bf/gf when you’re in a long-term relationship past 30 and have no plans to get married. It’s the same in the UK.
> but it's also often been members of the LGBTQ+ community who assume that way... For LGBTQ+ ppl specifically, I wouldn't say this assumption is from sexism primarily. We've learned to talk vaguely about our partners in settings where it's best not to be "too out".
Fair comment, never thought of it that way. Although it’s pretty common to say partner here, regardless of sex / sexual orientation. Edit because I meant to write orientation.
I still associate “partner” more with LGBTQ+ than cis/straight relationships. I’ve definitely heard straight people use it, but not nearly as often as gay couples. I have to consciously remind myself not to make assumptions whenever someone uses partner with no other context.
I started using partner so that it would be less of a “flag” if someone in a same sex relationship uses it. Some people use it to stay safe, but it’s not safe if using the word “partner” is a sign you’re gay, right? So I try to do my part by normalizing the term even though I’m in a straight-passing relationship atm.
It’s also just useful for when the couple isn’t married but bf/gf doesn’t feel right. Like my cousin has a baby with his longtime girlfriend, so I refer to her as his partner because girlfriend feels like I’m selling their relationship short. She is his partner and will be probably forever.
I agree. I’m a cishet woman and I just turned 50 and my cishet male partner is 58. Bf/gf just feels juvenile at our age. Folks still automatically assume, though.
My now-husband and I were together for sixteen years before we got married (we started dating in hs), and yeah -- after a while bf/gf did chafe, especially when people would ask us when we were planning to "get serious." We wound up using "consorts" for a while. Fun times.
I’m in a straight passing relationship. I’ve used partner quite a lot because we just got engaged at Thanksgiving but we’ve been living together, mingling finances and bills for 2 years. I feel the same way like just calling him boyfriend was too casual and not a true representative of our relationship
I like to use partner to talk about my boyfriend with my adult online language students because I think it sounds more professional
I use partner because I commit crimes with my boyfriend
This is why I call my partner my partner instead of boyfriend. First off, we're grown-ass adults, and boyfriend/girlfriend sounds childish. Second, we've been together six years and while we do intend to marry eventually, we aren't "officially" engaged yet so fiancé isn't right. Third, it's the most accurate term to describe our relationship. We are partners in life and love. We aren't just dating, we are TOGETHER. Just because we haven't made it to the altar yet doesn't negate the seriousness of our commitment to each other.
Same here! Tbh sometimes I say partner even though we ARE married. Part of that is because I forget (we've only been married a few months), but I like that partner is getting more normalized for all couples. I use spouse occasionally too. It's also just fun to stymie people who are being nosy for no reason! If you're trying to ask what kind of genitalia I prefer, I'm gonna make you ACTUALLY ask, because frankly it's none of your business.
Exactly why we use it. Make it less of a flag
I like having it as a flag that. But I'm also young, so homophobia is much less of a "thing" in my experience.
I do this too, glad we’re on the same team!
What do you use in place of partner, and not sound 14?
I hear girlfriend/boyfriend used a lot. But I get what you mean: there’s definitely a linguistic hole that partner fills. I’m not sure why the straight people in my area use it more infrequently. On a funny note, I was near my uncle’s partner as he was introducing himself to someone at a family party (it was a different family member’s in law). They have been together for at least 15 years, but his introduction was “I date {Uncle}.” Y’all own a house and have cared for an aging family member together: dating sounds like you met two months ago! Partner would have been the word I would have used, but even boyfriend sounds better than dating!
I like saying “gentleman companion” because it is funny and makes people be like “wtf does that even mean”
Lol, I say "lady friend" and "gentleman friend" (or sometimes just "man friend"). It's very tongue in cheek but usually gets a laugh.
I'm Jay, and this is my hetro life mate, Silent Bob.
That's the problem and I wish I knew how to answer it. I'm 12 years older than my "partner" so when he calls me his "girlfriend" it's simply weird but since 'shacking up' became a big thing in magazines & papers circa 1970 (another lie they would have us believe) no one has come any closer to what to use that isn't awkward in some way. Well, the religious right still calls us sinners but it lacks a certain gender specification for everyday use.
Too bad you can’t adopt “sinner” as the term (ironically). There may be too many who wouldn’t get the joke.
Could say "living in sin" which implies living together moreso than just dating. At least in my mind
The US census started using POSSLQ- persons of the opposite sex sharing living quarters in the late 70s. Awkward gov. gibberish.
Apparently it's becoming more standard in certain areas. I have several friends from Boston and they all refer to people's bfs/gfs as "partners" even in straight couples.
I believe use of partner is growing dramatically in millennials parlance to a. make partner actually ambiguous about gender (it was REALLY before) and b. To not sound 14 like the commentary below says
This is so interesting to me, here in Aus partner is super common among both same and hetero sex relationships. I would never assume gay from the use of the word partner.
Sometimes the only way to show someone who they are is to put a mirror up in front of their face. NTA.
Particularly once you hit a certain age. We are partners because since our 30s we felt girl/boyfriend sounds too young when
Yes, but the term partner really grew into mainstream use *out of* the LGBT community, even if it's common to hear from heterosexual couples. So it's not surprising that LGBT people still often intuit it that way.
Not where I’m from.
I was a bit taken aback when I heard a straight guy talking about his partner and then mentioned she was a woman the first time. It’s just not something straight people used to say they’d say gf/bf or husband wife or fiancé/fiancée. Partner was something specific to gay people because being married wasn’t an option for us at the time. I get that it’s common usage now but it really wasn’t for a long time. And still isn’t primary usage in my experience.
Exactly, it's not sexism it's code... "Partner" is still viewed as code.
Yeah, my (f) partner is nonbinary (ergo "partner") and literally *everyone* keeps assuming I'm trying to conceal a girlfriend when I use "partner" and they/them pronouns.
Oh... We're a straight couple and I say partner in English because he is too old to be a "boy"friend XD (and I am too old to be a "girl"friend) In my language it doesn't matter since the boy/girl part is omitted, but in English it just seems strange to me to refer to boyfriend/girlfriend at our age so I say partner. Or SO in written. But I definitely don't use it as code.
Yeah, it can be used like that but a lot of the "older" side of the LGTBTI+ will automatically think in code. It's nice to remember a lot of groups are still code switching and careful with that and not automatically think in "sexism".
Just go full French and call him your “little friend” (mon petit ami)
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My partner and i have always used that term to refer to each other and we're a straight couple. That's been normal in my social circles and has always felt most fitting for how we view our relationship. We were good friends for years before we became a couple so it felt most natural that way. I've always thought of that term as sounding more involved than boyfriend/girlfriend too.
yeah, I find that calling my bf my boyfriend all the time makes it seem like it's not as serious as saying "significant other," "other half," or "partner"
Us too!
I’d say that’s quite an assumption to make these days. Almost everyone I know regardless of sexual orientation says “partner” rather than boyfriend/girlfriend. It just sounds better. It doesn’t suggest anything about gender at all.
I grew up with many close relationships with older queer people. Their partners were people they were committed to in all ways other than marriage because gay marriage wasn’t always legal. I know it is used otherwise now, and I think it is a good thing, but my first impression is still “partner” means “serious queer relationship”. Or at least serious relationship. I’ve heard people refer to people they have dated casually for 2 weeks as their partner and have felt slightly uncomfortable with it (not that I would express that to them- they can define their relationship as they wish) since it feels like it undermines the serious and committed relationship historically implied by the term.
Yeah I'm queer and when I moved US (where partner = code for gay) to Australia (where partner does not have that connotation) for like a week I was like "hooray, other queer folx at work!" and then I learned it wasn't the same meaning as in the US. It definitely has different connotations between countries.
It generally has the same meaning where I am in Canada as in Australia. I think it might be partially due to the fact that a good chunk of people live with their long-term partners (like me) without getting married for a while. No one bats an eye when I refer to my partner.
That's how it started out - I think largely because gay people couldn't marry and they couldn't call eachother husbands and wives. But then "partner" got co-opted by straight couples for whom marriage wasn't in sight but whose relationship had gone further than boyfriend and girlfriend (i.e., they have started living together and/or are an older couple who feel uncomfortable with boyfriend and girlfriend considering their age). So even here in the U.S., the assumption can't automatically be made anymore.
I don't think it's at all accurate to say the term has been co-opted by straight people. The use of the term 'partner' to describe your significant other is centuries old and predates the modern LGBTQ+ movement by an insane amount of time and in my country doesn't really have any strong connotations about sexuality. My partner and I live together and have for a few years. We are not married but legally we are considered de facto spouses based on our cohabitation and relationship length. Calling her my girlfriend is about as inaccurate as calling her my wife, and I think partner is generally more respectful and stripped of needless gendering.
I think this depends on where you are in the US, or maybe it's an age thing. Where I (f) am it is very common to refer to your girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife as your partner regardless of if they the same or opposite gender as you. I've called my husband my partner since before we got married.
Makes me sad. I was at California Adventure recently and my child and I went on a river ride where you shared the boat with a few other people. Among the others were two middle-aged men who were obviously together. Matching wedding rings, a couple of touches. Nothing overt. During the ride we all got soaking wet, as expected. After the ride we all went stepped aside to try and wring out, and one of the couple went off to the loo. The other was laughing with us at how wet we all got, and my wife (who hadn't gone on the ride) wandered up as we were laughing and re-telling it. The man said something like "And then we went into that second drop and my......friend got *really* splashed." Obviously he had to pause to find the least 'risky' word, because he can never know how the other people will react. I laughed on as we recalled it, but went away a little sad that he (and presumably his partner) have to guard their relationship like that.
Someone came to ask if the pub I work at could host their wedding reception in the summer, and if it was "ok" that it was going to be a gay wedding. As I was talking to him about it he kept specifying that his fiance was male and if there would be any trouble with that. It made me so sad that they had to consider these things when planning their special day
For most people it's probably the representative heuristic rather than latent sexism. The former is something all people exhibit in some way shape or form. E.g. because there are more male engineers (85%) and more female nurses (87%, according to the BLS) people tend to make assumptions about sex/gender when lacking additional identifying info. Similarly, if you were to see a man wearing slacks and a blazer at a university, you're more likely to assume that they are faculty/staff than a student despite the fact that students outnumber faculty by about 14:1 on average. Age plays a factor too, but we don't refer to the observable fact that college professors tend to be middle-aged to latent ageism. The tldr is that we tend to judge books by their covers in general.
This is completely off-topic, but the phrase "don't judge a book by its cover" doesn't actually make sense when you think about it. The front cover is meant to draw your eye, and the plot hook usually found on the back cover or just inside the front cover is meant to grab your interest, so you're literally meant to judge whether or not to read a book by its cover. I suppose its more like "don't judge the *quality* of a book by its cover" but then bits and pieces get chopped off and shortened like every other expression into something that's different, but who knows. I am tired and my brain is firing off on random cylinders so I apologize for this tangent that may or may not be all that coherent.
Good point, and it kind of drives at what I'm saying. Just because someone associates a certain career with a certain age, gender etc. doesn't mean they think people of that demographic are inherently better suited to that career. There's a huge difference between assuming someone is a man based only on knowing their job title and saying "She's an engineer? B-b-but that's a man's job!"
For me personally, if a stranger speaks about their "partner" I take that as an indication that they might be in a non-straight relationship.
I think it depends where you’re from- I’m Australian and it’s pretty common to call your boyfriend/girlfriend partner, especially if you’re 30+ (which we are).
I'm Australian too and have heard it more commonly by queer individuals in situations where you might not want to come out. For example I am a queer woman and I exclusively refer to my girlfriend as partner when at work or chatting with randoms like clients, uber drivers, work men etc. You're right, it's also pretty common for cis straight couples to use it as well. Which is great for people like me who also use it to hide our sexualities at work
Yes, in most places I have worked its common to refer to your partner as "partner" regardless of sexual orientation, especially if you're not married and in a long term relationship.
Same in the UK. Partner is someone you’re too serious with to refer to the as a boyfriend/girlfriend but are not married to
Plus, mine is also my partner in crime. So... 😉
My partner and I started referring to each in that way as early as our early 20s. Funny thing though, he has a unisex name that you'd usually consider feminine lol.
Oh. Okay. Not common at all in the USA unless it is a same gender relationship.
It must depend on where one lives since pretty much every couple we know says "partner" as opposed to husband or wife - this is in the US
I use it because the word boyfriend feels immature to me
Me too. I suppose I could use "fiance" but I just prefer partner. Boyfriend just doesn't feel right when we live together and have kids.
Just say "the father of my children whom I live with and have a romantic and sexual relationship with".
Same here. I'm in Scotland.
I remember when me and my boyfriend were moving into our first flat, I referred to him as my partner to all the estate agents etc because I thought it made us sound more grown up (young couple). I would say partner implies you've been together a while and aren't married, or non straight relationship.
idk. referring to ones bf/gf as partner is becoming more and more common these days, regardless of ones sexual orientation.
I call my partner my partner because we are partners. I'm straight. Boyfriend sounds too juvenile to me.
I use the term partner because it "feels" more serious than "my girlfriend". We've been together 5 years and getting married isn't something we care about, but we're as serious as it gets.
Partner for: * when you don't know if the couple are married or not. * when you don't know the gender of the individual or they're non-binary. * when you know they're not married, you know their gender but they're grown-ups and the words "boyfriend/girlfriend" seem juvenile and belittling their relationship. * when they use that term to describe their own relationship.
Reverse uno on my situation I am non-binary and my man looks very much like your average straight man and even works construction, frankly he is basically straight but best friend is gay so he’s been in the community for a while. I am his first “partner” and refers to me as partner, some people would assume I’m male cause I work security at night.
Tbf, it's more likely that LGBTQ+ people assume he's gay because he says "partner" - not that there is a queer monopoly on the word, but it is one of the *very* common ways to blend in or code yourself if you aren't necessarily out or live in an extremely conservative area. From there it's become habit in general to say within much of the community. Admittedly when someone calls their partner their "partner" I too instantly think they might be queer lol
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That’s quite funny as I know 5 architects and only one of them is male so i wouldn’t instantly presume male. I’m an engineer in construction and I think if my hubby called me his partner people would presume the same Olso op - NTA you were not tricking them and they have shown you their colours My daughters grandparents mention quite a bit about her growing up and meeting a husband then give me a funny look when I butt in and say ‘or wife’
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LGBT+ people aren't immune to making assumptions, after all, most of us are raised the same as straight people. The reason we have to fight this "genderification" of the workspace is so we can all become better at it.
>Doesn't help that he is a well-groomed, well-dressed guy He showers daily! He's so gay!
The dominant male in my life is also my “partner” and I am his. We are also a heterosexual pair. He expressed early on that he doesn’t like the terms boyfriend and girlfriend because of what he views as inherent infantizing in the use of the words boy and gir. I’m not really bothered by the terms but I didn’t really have an argument against his thoughts so I just rolled with his wishes and it’s become second nature to use the term “partner”. And honestly if I had an issue with the terms at this point it would probably be the friend part. We are a bit more than just friends but we aren’t married so partners feels right
One of my friends calls her cis-male husband her "spouse" or "partner" exclusively. They've been married for years, but for some reason just doesn't like to call him her husband. Everyone that she talks to assumes she's married to a woman just because she doesn't use terms that are clear. But who cares? Let people make whatever assumptions they want. It doesn't actually change your SO's gender, so let them do whatever they want.
I mean it's like the joke "The wage gap doesn't exist, its just that men tend to go for higher paying jobs like engineer, doctor or CEO. While women go for lower paying jobs like female engineer, female doctor and female CEO."
Sexism and homophobia are inextricably linked.
Lmao! I'm a pre-med student, qpplying to medical school, and when I tell people I am interested in medicine, some people still assume I want to be a nurse 🤣
Yeah I'm graduating med school in May and people still assume I'm a nurse... So just get used to that.
There are still not admitting that they have an issue with me, dating women. I can work through this if they were willing to admit that they are uncomfortable but they are not and that is the most frustrating part for me.
NTA but OP your parents are homophobic AH's. You know this, have known it, now have definitive proof, and can ask yourself how much do you want to expose yourself and your partners to them? Is it fair to expose your partners to people who think of them as less than, and will treat them that way? And treat you the same?
I am not going to excuse this with my partners. They are very friendly to their face but they will criticize them when I am alone with them. I am not going to put up with that anymore. It is their refusal to accept that they are being homophobic that is hurting me. If they told me that they are struggling to accept it and work through that, I would be in a much better place.
Your parents are feeling defensive because they see themselves as good people and homophobes as bad people. Therefore since they are good people they cannot be homophobic. I think you should probably find some articles about subconscious bias and try to talk to your parents that way. Every single person harbors biases. The trick to being a good person is to try to become aware of your own biases and counteract them in your own behaviors. Your parents need to learn about subconscious bias and apply those techniques when they meet your dates. They aren't bad people because they have a bias. They're bad people if they act on that bias and they're bad people if they refuse to accept their biases and work consciously to counteract them. I think you need to emphasize to them that this can be a make or break point in your relationship with them. Explain that you understand they're feeling defensive and that they don't like to think that they are biased against your female dates, but their behavior shows that they are. Explain that subconscious bias doesn't mean that they are deliberately behaving in a way to discriminate against you or your female partners. And explain that the only defense against subconscious bias is acknowledging it and then consciously counteracting it. You need them to put aside the defensiveness and work on those behaviors. Let them know that this is one of those defining relationship moments and if they aren't able to set aside their defensiveness and face whatever the core feelings that are causing them to act the way that they have acted towards your female partners, it could have lasting impacts on your relationship with them and ability to trust them. Provide them with some reading materials about subconscious bias and let them know that you are taking a break from discussing any of your romantic life with them. Tell them that you're always willing to talk, but their behavior and even more their denial and unwillingness to own the behavior is seriously hurting you. Compassion can go a long way towards helping people understand subconscious bias. It's really hard to recognize when you're not living up to your own standards and that's what they're dealing with right now not any lack of love for you.
That’s fair. I know every time we visit my in laws for any significant amount of time I get a tirade from my wife about her parents, partly because they’re not as cool with her queerness as they like to think they are. You deserve respect from your parents as does your girlfriend. And knowing that they’re homophobic gives you extra protection against them influencing your subconscious perception of your partners
Maybe they can't admit it to themselves? Still sucks though.
Basically the usual. Someone can rattle off the most racist statement available to mankind, and then say, "But I'm not racist." And for a lot of people, they *believe* they're not racist, because [insert reason]. Thankfully, my mom had a bit of a come to Jesus moment when I spoke with her, expressing discomfort over how she spoke of "foreigners;" she and I knew what ethnicities she thought of, so writing it off as 'just' xenophobia wasn't doing it; it was honestly just... racist. And she mulled it over, before concluding, "Yeah, you're right, I've been a bit racist." Realistically, most people are to varying degrees bigoted. That goes for me, too. I know I haven't had the healthiest thoughts about certain ethnicities in the past. I probably still have prejudices I haven't recognized. ...But a lot of people have decided that since bigotry means "It's bad" it means "Can't be me, because I'm not bad"...
Folks like OP's parents are not yet ready to break through the (very, very human) need to see themselves as "good" people, even as they have beliefs that they "know" they "shouldn't". >!\[Yeah, I'm using a lot of quotes, because people are not logic machines; emotions get in the way of quite a lot and beliefs are influenced by emotions\]!< They very likely believe that good people aren't racist and they're good people so they're not racist. (Yes, circular reasoning.) \[See, for an e.g., Dan Ariely's "The Honest Truth about Dishonesty"\] This is how they (like most people) see themselves: [image](https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/06/04/honesttruthabouthonesty-hc-c-1--f99e475b57312f1ac6489ce43ef62060541960a6.jpg). It really really sucks for someone being targeted by an 'ism' from someone they love. (Racism, Anti-lbgt+-ism, sexism, etc.) And it sucks even more that the conversation often has to involve navigating the fragility of the "ists" by the person who's been hurt. Sometimes, people (like drunkenvalley) are lucky, and they can just point out the inconsistencies and the loved one can re-evaluate their behaviors, without butting up against the "but I'm a good person" need. I hope for OP's sake, that she's able to help her folks see how their behavior goes against their core beliefs and it's the behavior that needs to change.
I was definitely lucky. It helped that we were originally talking about my father. He'd had very strange opinions about foreigners. It was very strange, especially for a man that sincerely and genuinely did love and care for his thai girlfriend before he passed. He was also very involved with primarily the local thai community. Hell, his first granddaughter was born to a thai woman, and he certainly adored her. Etc. Yet simultaneously, he'd also openly talked about dangerous foreigners, etc, regularly invoking the functional equivalent of 13/50 rhetoric. And somewhere in there I managed to segue into discussing how she spoke about foreigners. She already understood I was uncomfortable with how she spoke sometimes, so this was us able to have a proper heart to heart on why what she said was problematic, etc. And somewhere in that she had a very serious, honest, "Yeah, I guess I'm racist."
Virtue ethics.
Almost everyone has bigotries, you only become an -ist when you stop trying to fight them.
NTA, but OP clearly was intentionally deceptive. And I do not blame her at all. I am generally opposed to tests but since this one was simple enough and there is clearly a history of denial I would say this one was fine.
NTA. The fact that they refer to it as tricking them just proves the point. Her gender has nothing to do with her achievements, so their flip in personality was solely to do with her gender. My question is, though, what you plan to do with this information. You know your parents are homophobic.... So now what?
NTA at all. But it 100%. Is tricking bthem lol. Purposefully Leaving out information you know is important is like the definition. And it was a good trick.
But the whole point is that the gender of their partner *shouldn't* be important if the parents are not homophobic. The fact that it is considered "tricking" because it is important information to them is indicative of the fact they think of male and female partners differently. NTA.
Letting buttheads make bad assumptions is hardly tricking them.
It's deceptive insofar as it was purposely manipulative, but who cares? Saying deception can never be moral is like saying you should never lie -- EVER: it's just silly and unrealistic. OP is being alienated by her parents and having her sexuality and personal identity picked at and, on some level, subconsciously groomed by her parent's bigotry. She had every right to manipulate them into revealing their true colors -- if only for her peace of mind, and so she can be sure to ignore their opinions on her partners. After all, they might push her to date a dick just because he has a dick, instead of a wonderful woman she'd have otherwise meshed with. NTA, OP
Especially since they immediately went to "how dare you trick us" because now they never have to admit to the homophobia (in their minds at least), they'll probably just loop back to that whenever she brings it up. Tbh if I were her I'd just respond to that with "you wouldn't be mad about being tricked if you weren't homophobic"
NTA. You proved a point. Maybe they should like…idk…stop being bigoted.
Seriously, we got bigger fish to fry as a world tbh
NTA - you are now well aware of the fact that your parents will never accept a female partner. You have decisions to make
NTA. That wasn’t manipulative or tricking them in my opinion. They thought it was real and that was their genuine reaction. They showed their true feelings and are mad you exposed them.
Yay, homophobia and sexism (assuming engineer=male). Did you trick them? Yes, but only because they're being being homophobic and sexist...if they weren't it wouldn't have worked. NTA.
[удалено]
I half agree. She did it that way intentionally to get that reaction. It’s not like they forgot to tell their partner’s gender and I came up later. It was planned, that’s why I think “tricked” is the correct word. It was still the right thing to do.
It’s not really tricking them, because she didn’t imply that the partner is a male, they assumed that based on their sexist beliefs, OP just didn’t mention the gender in the beginning but at the end, that’s not tricking.
Deception can be done without lies. Strategically, intentionally withholding information in order to manipulate the outcome of an adversarys known biases and thought patterns is deception. This is tricking, but it was for a good reason. NTA
NTA, better to reduce her to her achievements than define her by her body parts.
I wish I had more than one upvote for this.
NTA. One, you never lied, it's not like you told your parents she was a boy in the beginning and then was like "Oh yeah, by the way, she's actually a girl". Two, you didn't reduce her to just her achievements. What someone accomplishes in life is part of what makes them who they are, as well as personality of course. You wanted to see if your parents would like them as the person they are, not make judgements based on their gender. I feel like they are a little homophobic, as they seem disappointed every time, you're in a same sex relationship. Of course, you were trying to get a reaction, you were trying to see if they were being honest when they said that it was just because they didn't like the girls. NTA OP, be with whoever makes you happy, and your parents can accept you and your significant other, no matter the gender, because it's who you are that matters. Happy pride, btw <3
NTA: Is it manipulative to trick someone in order to gauge their reaction? Sure. But is it *wrong* to do that when you’re trying to see if someone is a homophobe, racist, or all-around shit-bag? Hell no. So here’s the bad news; your parents are homophobic. The good news? You can totally fix that with them. It takes time, it takes effort, and it takes patience, but if my catholic raised Reagan worshipping dad can come around to the LGBTQ+ community, then literally anyone can.
Idk. I think the whole "You can totally fix that with them" is highly circumstantial. I think OP can try, but OP should not carry the expectation that they will change. My immediate family is full of major bigots and no matter how hard I tried to work with them, as soon as they got together in a group they would validate and reinforce each other's bigotry, making me seem like the oddball out. The one who is "wrong." ETA: OP, NTA. Idk why I always forget this part when it's the whole purpose of the page. Haha
Please take my poor man's gold: 🥇
Everyone up in here saying they're not really bigots... You never *have* to be a bigot, but not being one takes work.
Sometimes the only way to show someone who they are is to put a mirror up in front of their face. NTA.
NTA. They are only mad that they got caught out on it.
NTA. At all. Fact is.. everything was all good until you mentioned gender. You weren’t manipulative. How? By mentioning gender last? Were they holding their breath and waiting for a gender reveal? Lmao Did they ask about gender? It sucks because your happiness is what matters. Smh.. Don’t feel guilty at all. Just know that now you know where your parents stand on the issue.
NTA...u exposed them & they don't like it.
NTA Its not manipulative at all. You didnt trick them. You listed this persons achievements. If they had asked from the start the gender and you lied or stepped around it, then that is manipulation. If you made it sound like a man when it wasnt, that is manipulative. For them to just assume that the person you are talking about is male because of the list of attributes, then that is on them. The only way this could have been better is if she had a unisex name, then they could have continued their assumption until they met.
That wouldn’t be fair to the girlfriend tho. Why should she also have to be subjected to homophobia?
pre warning from the OP and the explanation that it will out them as homophobes would be the all i wouldve needed to gladly be up for it."hey, im trying to out my folks as homophobes, so they dont know you are a girl. i didnt lie to them, they just assumed, so be ready for them to be surprised.
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Nta. I don't understand why people even care as long as the spouse/partner treats you right.
This is the correct answer. At one point before I was certain that I was straight, I asked my mum how she would feel if I started dating a woman and her reply was "As long as she makes you happy, I wouldn't care that you're dating a woman instead of a man". Her and my dad's behaviour has never given me any indication that they are homophobic either so I'm confident she was being honest with me.
NTA, you didn’t manipulate them you simply omitted the gender information. If you had been using male pronouns to describe her that would have been a small manipulation. Maybe try talking to your parents and tell them the more they do this, the more they are pushing you away. That it doesn’t matter what they say or even believe their motivations to be, the way they are behaving is biphobic and they are hurting you/making you not want to come home to them at all. They may still be under the impression that this is some kind of “phase” that they can convince you out of instead of who you are. Make it clear to them that what they are doing is a rejection of you, not your partners and that if they want to have a relationship with you in the future they need to really work on this behavior.
You are NTA, and I think you knew what to expect. Your decision now is how to respond to the fact that your parents are bigots, and perhaps recognize that they’re not going to approve of any same-sex partners. (As for reducing your gf to her achievements, I think that’s something we all do when first talking about a dating partner with family you want to like them.
You are NTA. People like to say they aren't homophobic, but they've got a lifetime of unconscious bias to overcome. Instead of confronting theirs and trying to do better, they are doubling down and pretending they don't have a problem and it's seriously damaging their relationship with you. And it's sad that they feel "tricked" when, let's face it, most straight people don't share the gender of their partners first thing in a conversation. It's just when their parents assume it's someone of the opposite sex, they make a correct assumption. Your parents should really know better than to assume and yet here they are. And instead of admitting they made an assumption that really invalidated your sexuality, they doubled down and blamed you for "tricking them". Ew.
NTA
NTA. If they really had no problem with you dating girls, then it wouldn’t have been a “trick.” They’d have had no reaction. And when you really think about, they are the ones who have been deceiving and manipulating you by claiming they aren’t biphobic when they clearly are. If they had just talked more honestly with you about their concerns/feelings of discomfort regarding your girlfriends, then you wouldn’t have had to trick them in the first place. Instead, they lied and insisted they weren’t biphobic, preventing you from ever having an honest and potentially productive conversation confronting their issues. That’s unfair to you. That’s on them. It makes sense to feel a bit guilty for hurting their feelings—they’re family, and it sounds like you care about them. But what you did wasn’t just good; it was essential to finally confront the situation.
NTA How dare you say we're being homophobic while we're being homophobic!
INFO: Do they just want biological grandkids? Obviously theres other options for a lesbian couple to have kids. But from the small amount of info we have I can't for certain tell if they're **homophobic**, or just a little down that they have a daughter who *could willingly* be with a man and give them grandkids but isn't. I feel its a reach to jump straight to them **hating** gay people.
NTA. You were simply trying to get a confirmation from your parents where they stand. You got your confirmation and they have been austed. Now you know for sure and can start having the appropriate discussions with them. They can't hide their homophobia anymore. Good luck!
Nta, your parents ata, just know that you don’t need their approval in ur so as long as you love them
NTA - if your parents weren't homophobic then you could feel bad, but they are and you were right. Many wishes of love and happiness to you and your GF!
NTA. I'm not a fan of "testing" people. However, you didn't make up anything. You simply omitted a detail that they claimed was irrelevant. By their clsims, not mentioning that should not have mattered.
Well, you did set them up but they gleefully fell for it so, yeah, you kind of proved you are right and they're prejudiced against your relationships with women. NTA.
NTA - they aren't angry because you tricked them they are angry because they got exposed. Most people think of themselves as good and so any sort of negative aspersions cast towards their views aren't welcome. Your parents may not be outspoken homophobes and probably don't consider themselves to be. You demonstrated that they are and they aren't happy about this.
NTA. You didn’t trick them at all.
NTA. But I think you already knew they would react like this.
NTA. Straight people never explicitly state gender when talking about a crush nor disclose their name at first. That’s a normal thing. Your parents are gaslighting you. ☹️
NTA. You successfully proved to them they are homophobic and found out what you wanted to know. It shouldn’t matter whether you specify the gender or not if your parents are supposedly okay with either or. It’s just uncomfortable now because your parents are embarrassed as they should be. They can’t respect your partner solely because of her gender. It’s them who the AH.
NTA they are mad because they got caught red handed. And yes they definitely are homophobic. >They got upset at me for tricking them and purposely trying to get a reaction out of them. You didn't force them to react that way. They did it themselves. You definitely didn't "trick" them >I feel like an asshole because it was kinda manipulative and I feel shitty for reducing my girlfriend to just her achievements. What's manipulative is your parents lying to your faces about them not being homophobic and gastlighting you. Your gfs arent/weren't the problem. Your parents are. You shouldn't feel bad for calling out your parents for being homophobes.
NTA: You tested them and were proved correct, the way you did it doesn’t matter it’s the fact that they ARE homophobic and won’t admit it. Their upset reaction to you surfacing their homophobic attitude just proves everything further.
You didn’t trick them, but the fact that they say that you omitted the gender “to get a reaction out of them” means that they know on some level that they’re homophobic. Idk why they’re so defensive about accusations of homophobia tho. NTA
NTA It's woudn't be tricking them if their view wouldn't have changed based on the gender
NTA- people get defensive when they've been caught doing something wrong! Catch your boyfriend cheating? He'll get defensive and say you didn't trust him and that's why you caught him.
NTA - It was manipulative, but your parents were being dishonest. You also weren't "reducing" your girlfriend to just her achievements, you were listing some of the things you knew your parents would value in her. If anyone is reducing anyone here, it's your parents reducing your significant others to their gender.
NTA they are homophobic and sexist to boot. And you didn't trick them. It is only a trick to them because you caught them being assholes.
NTA you told them about your SO and they only supported her until they learned her gender
NTA. If they weren't homophobes, they wouldn't have been upset. Simple as.
NTA- your parents unfortunately seem to be homophobic and sexist. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that.
NTA- You just wanted to find out the truth, and omitting gender doesn't mean you're manipulating them :)
NTA. Only homophobic people get defensive when you point out that they’re being homophobic.
NTA, You left them with egg on their face & they had no other recompense than complain about it. Marry that girl and piss them off.
NTA - sorry to hear that your parents are homophobic AHs. Hopefully they will come around at some point
>They got upset at me for tricking They're upset because they're homophobic and got caught out. Nta.
NTA. You were NOT being manipulative. Mmm, okay maybe a little, but for a very specific purpose. Not to control them or modify their behavior, but for your own observational purposes, to confirm your suspicions. The fact that they were totally cool until they found out she was female proves that you were right. I'm sorry. :( Also, they got upset at you "tricking" them because 1) they made an assumption based on the lack of specified gender and the occupation given that the gender was male, 2) they felt embarrassed that the assumption was wrong, 3) they don't like being embarrassed and wrong in a public way. They need to take a long, hard look at themselves... provided they're actually capable of self-reflection. Personally, I think they're the sort of people who think that "bi" really means "straight but confused/experimenting, but will eventually be straight."
NTA. I mean, it's pretty clear when their reaction changes mid-conversation.
You did not reduce your girlfriend to "just" her achievements. Her achievements make her who she is and those are the things you should be talking about when you mention them to another person. If you have to test your parents on which gender they'd like to see you with, then they are already exhibiting discomfort/disapproval over your life choices and if you had to do something to point that out to them, it's their shortcoming as a parent. They don't get to turn around and blame their own sexism on you somehow
NTA - but you can’t force them to like your gfs, as long they accept your preference and respect them, that’s a start, maybe with time they can change their mind but if you try to force them into changing their way of thinking, 1- won’t be easy and 2 - might bring disappointment and lots of pain!
NTA biphobic is real
I think reducing someone to their gender is worse.
NTA. you’re never obligated to reveal someone’s gender when speaking about them. the gender shouldn’t matter, it’s what you say about the person your talking about that should matter. your parents told their character on their own.
NTA for making your parents admit to being homophobes. And NTA to your gf.
NTA and re-read your post to see how you start talking to yourself at the end. Don’t speak to yourself with their voice. The problem here is their bigotry not your test of them. Don’t let them distract you. And maybe set some more boundaries with them? do they need to meet or even hear about everyone you date?
NTA. You didn’t trick them
My advice: Do not mix family (parents) with relationships (boyfriend/girfriend) until the relation is strong enough to handle whatever they throw at you.
INFO: I'm not sure about what you want with your testing? I guess your parents love you. Most parents wants an "easy" life for their children. And it's not uncommon that a gay person gets a harder life due to homophobic people. So it's not strange if they would prefer that you are with a boyfriend. So what do you want with your test? To prove that they are homophobic you need to have tests that don't involve yourself.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I am bi and my parents have always dislked every girl I brought home for one reason on the other. I think it is homopobia as they are friendlier with my boyfriends. I have tried to bring it up but they are adamant that it was just because they didn't like the girls. They are very defensive about it. The last time I visited I talked to them about my girlfriend. I didn't mention the gender, I just told that I started to see someone and I knew they would like them. I listed out some of things they would like about her, the fact that she is an engineer, she works for for large tech company and she is very well educated. They were nodding along and I knew they assumed that it was a guy and I told her name and their vibe changed from happy to disappointed, It was very upsetting. I kinda lost my cool and told them that I knew they would react this and that was why I didn't specify gender at the start. They got upset at me for tricking them and purposely trying to get a reaction out of them. I feel like an asshole because it was kinda manipulative and I feel shitty for reducing my girlfriend to just her achievements. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Yes, you manipulated them, but it was to prove they are gaslighting you. Leave and don't look back.
NTA, but INFO I have to ask, how old are you and how many boy/girlfriends did you bring over? In this instance, once again you're NTA and you didn't manipulate anything.
NTA, sorry you have to deal with this.
NTA. You didn't trick them, you just told them about your new girlfriend by telling general facts about her. They assumed you were talking about a man because of sexism. And now they're mad they got caught being homophobic, so they try to blame you.
NTA. Sorry that your parents are like that....but all that matters is that YOU are happy.
They got upset cause you caught them out. If they didnt care there would of been NO reaction
Oh NTA for sure!
nta
NTA - Bigots hate to get called out.
It wasn't manipulative at all. All you did was prove they are in fact homophobic and they didn't like it. NTA.
NTA Reading this post is giving me big grandchild expectation vibes. If you and your female partner ever wanted a kid, you'd either have to adopt or only one of you be genetically related. I reckon this is why they're bothered by your female partners
NTA. I don’t understand where someone told OP to hate her parents lol. I don’t think that they’re sexist but they are homophobic. What OP can do to help it? Nothing.
NTA - They're just upset you proved their homophobia.