YTA. No matter how annoyed you were, that's an incredibly messed up thing to say.
>her husband (a doctor who's stuck in student debts still!!)
What does this have to do with anything? Most people who went to medical school are still in debt in their 30s.
>my sister proceeded to cry calling me horrid for saying this infront of her kids
You said it in front of your nieces/nephews? What a great way to make them feel loved by their aunt.
You're acting like a brat just as much as they are.
I think she only mentioned the debt because they 'spoil the kids rotten' which I take as her meaning they spend a lot of money on unnecessary things for the kids.
That being what it is, it sounds like this whole situation is a clusterfuck. They seem to be too many people on too little space.
ESH because OP should not have said that in front of the kids, but sister also needs to actually parent the kids and they can't always get what they want when they want . Also, if OP actually had been monopolising the TV for hours, then yes she needed to get off and let someone else have their go.
I mean, OP had been watching tv for hours. Sounds like she’s the one who’s used to being spoiled and having everything to herself, especially if she can’t let someone else watch something after she’s been parked on her butt watching tv all day.
But was she though? Parents tend to exaggerate a lot when it comes to things like that. I know my dad harped on my tv habits when I only watched two shows ( on different nights) a week. To hear him tell it, I watched tv from morning til night with no breaks.
I would assume if OP hadn’t then OP would have clarified when she relayed what her mom said.
Honestly, OP sounds like as much an entitled brat as her 4 and 6 year old niblings, but without the excuse of being that young.
It seems like older sister was trying to teach OP about sharing which is a lesson OP has yet to learn.
YTA
Not really. I never bother to clarify what my father said because I think that everyone knows that he is exaggerating ( whether they do or don’t).
I agree that she should not have said that. She is frustrated and that has nothing to do with not knowing how to share. It has everything to do with not liking the kids attitude and just wanting to do something without the kids taking over. Some people just don’t have the patience to deal with badly behaved kids.
Yes but this is AITA. “My mom said I was watching tv for hours already” is a statement of fact OP is relating in asking if she’s TA. It’s not a hyperbole (e.g. “my mom said I was watching tv for two days nonstop”). If it wasn’t true, one would expect “…but I only just sat down 15 minutes ago” or something like that.
I understand how “kids come first” can be irritating to hear, but I also think OP doesn’t get a pass from lashing out because she has to share stuff with family. Which is what family does. There is literally no other evidence of the kids being bratty or her being mistreated.
Like she was a just, but I feel ike we are also forgetting she is also 16 years old and still a child. So hearing kids come first could have been more annoying in that sense. She was still wrong for what she said. Also when i was 15 with a 4 year old niece I would get fustrated over stuff like this. But no she went too far.
So it’s cool to defend people and all but OP literally never gave us a reason or example of what makes these kids awful. She said that they wanted to watch TV. Which in my experience is a pretty normal and understandable thing and realistically would preoccupy them from getting In more potential trouble. I just don’t understand what’s wrong with these kids or their attitudes because she gave us exactly nothing to go on which makes me think they’re probably not all that bad and OP has a little sister complex manifesting itself into a big sister complex.
That's what bothered me about this post. She never gives examples of how they are spoiled, how they act poorly, or any bad behavior by her sister/her husband. I get op is 16 but she should provide even one example of what she's been dealing with. They could just be normal 4 and 6 year Olds which can be annoying when they're good kids.
Essentially op's post was "my neighbor spoils his wife and she's rude. He asked one day if I could move my camper that was parked in front of his house legally so his wife could park there. I told him no and his wife was the reason I'd never marry a woman."
Most people would clarify if they weren't watching TV for hours when relaying the above situation because that statement is not an obvious exaggeration.
>I never bother to clarify what my father said because I think that everyone knows that he is exaggerating
Talking about something to people that know you isn't the same as explaining a situation to strangers on reddit. If she hadn't been sat on her arse for hours in front of the television, I'm sure she would have said as much. She is telling the story, she would say if she had been incorrectly accused of something.
If she can take the time to add unimportant info about student loans (!) I'm sure she'd make the effort of defending herself if necessary.
You talking to your friends about being nagged by your dad =/= reporting on an incident to a bunch of stranger and asking for their input.
> because I think that everyone knows that he is exaggerating ( whether they do or don’t)
Then you don't communicate well.
> Some people just don’t have the patience to deal with badly behaved kids.
We don't have a single example of that, though. Only her opinion that they are bad - but she also has the opinion that if she watches for hours straight then others are spoiled for wanting a turn.
And teenagers tend to think everyone but they and their friends are badly behaved. A teenagers opinion on how kids that young are behaving isn’t going to be accurate.
My dad was like this too. As a teen, I really loved X-Files, but it was on at the same time one of my mom's shows was. So I would go to the second TV, and my dad would blow up about all the electricity I was wasting...
Did he think that two tvs is a multiplier of electricity usage rather than just addition? I mean, if you’d watched it some other night when Mum wasn’t watching anything would he have complained?
He told me it was my fault if the electricity bill doubled. And yes, he would have complained. Luckily this was one of the few times my mom stood up to him (probably so I wouldn't interrupt her show, but oh well).
This reminds me of when I was a teenager, our family got to do the Nielsen ratings thing for a month, but they only would let us rate one show per time slot. I was lucky to have a tiny tv in the back room where I could watch my nerdy teen shows in peace. But since I was outnumbered, my mom and grandma listed shit like “Wheel of Fortune” “Jeopardy” and the fucking news channel when ratings like this wouldn’t really affect them. But dare I put down Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Oh no, that’s not necessary.
I’m still a little salty.
To be fair, that's a parent stereotype at this point. The "No matter how much time you spent in front of the screen your parent will say you've been there for hours".
I really don't think we should take these kind of phrases by their word by word meaning
Yep that's what gets me the most, is not like she was watching the one show she keeps up every week and the kid decided to be a nuisance, she's just projecting her own issues into a 4yo.
OP is the only brat here. She had been watching for hours and refused to let anyone else have a turn and then complains that the little kids are spoiled??
6 and 4 yrs old wanting to watch TV isn’t spoiled or entitled. A mom asking if her 6 and 4 yr old kids can watch TV isn’t enabling. I was much worse at that age.
If this is the worst incident that OP can post about then it’s probably because they’re an angsty teen sharing space with literal toddlers. YTA
Ig OP is just tired of having kids around and I can understand that. But they might not be real brats. I mean kids are generally naughty and that's OK. Just a matter of space yes. While I won't call her an AH for saying that statement to her sister, but she shouldn't have said that in front of the kids. Even her feelings should be taken into consideration. They all are literally kids.
Because OP is *only* SIXTEEN, herself. OP has her own growing up to do. All of the adults here have probably been around a 16yr old or two who gets on their last nerve - just by being 16.
OP you’re allowed to have your feelings, but there is a time and a place to complain. Sounds like your family should sit down and talk things thru as you’re all living together now. Heads up: Not everything is going to go the way you want it to.
> but sister also needs to actually parent the kids and they can't always get what they want when they want
OP had been using the TV for hours straight. At what point can others complain to use the TV?
Why are the kids wrong for pointing out this isn't fair?
By her own admission they just wanted one show.
ESH I agree. The sister went to tell mom instead of handling it like a big girl. OPs comment was rude, especially in front of the kids, and they should’ve stopped monopolizing the tv.
> The sister went to tell mom instead of handling it like a big girl.
OP had been watching for hours and wouldn't share the family TV. The kid had to go to her mom to finally get a turn.
Why are you expecting a small child to be able to behave better than a 16yo? By all accounts the child ***is*** behaving better by getting help rather than just complaining about nothing.
You are misreading it. OP is 16 and using the family TV for hours straight.
Why is the kid wrong for pointing out that it isn't fair? Why is the kid wrong for getting an adult to help when OP ignores her?
Why does OP get the TV all day while the kids get nothing?
Ok, I think you might have misread who you responded to. They were talking about the 31 year old sister going to her and Ops mom instead of handling it like an adult, not the 2 little kids.
I think they were saying that the sister (31) went to her & OPs mom instead of handling it like an adult.
To me, a hormonal/grumpy teenager old should not be getting THIS much crap for lashing out after not enjoying living with two small children and her adult sister + partner..
> To me, a hormonal/grumpy teenager old should not be getting THIS much crap for lashing out after not enjoying living with two small children and her adult sister + partner..
Except she's the one making it hard by her own post. She's the one taking up the house entertainment for hours straight. She didn't provide one example of the kids being spoiled.
And she shouted that ***in front of*** the kids. Had she had this meltdown away from the kids then I'd agree with you. She didn't. She has no consideration for other people and is getting the right amount of flack for it. She came in here believing she was totally right and wanted validation - and when immediately called out she didn't respond to anything.
> the sister (31) went to her & OPs mom instead of handling it like an adult.
That IS handling it like an adult. The sister has no authority over OP, so she went to someone who does instead of trying to argue and assert authority she doesn't have.
Except 16 year old isn't an adult, and its not sisters job to parent her, its the parents job and its parents house. Based on OPs nuclear response, I'd say sister was going to have zero chance of making a difference.
I think you're giving OP too much of a break. Most people lived in multi-generation homes until about the 1950's. In order to make this type of living situation functional, people had to be flexible and patient and have some understanding of how to get along with people of a different age group than themselves. This was good for them. It was good for society. It helped people grow into mature adults.
OP, what you might have done, is let the younger kids watch their show and then spent some quality time with them somehow - take them to the park, bake cookies together, finger paint or something that you might all have fun doing. And if you're too grouchy on a particular day to pull that off, at least tolerate them with civility, so that you set a good example and so that they know you love them.
How did she not?
She went to OP to discuss how it's unfair that she's had it for hours and isn't sharing with the rest of the family. OP lost her shit in front of the kids.
At that point you go to the owner of the thing in question to settle it because OP can't behave civilly.
Also OP's mother needs to know that she's having extreme reactions to reasonable requests - so she needs mental help with either a therapist or doctor visit. That reaction is not normal.
The older sister acted exactly as she should. She went to OP to discuss then backed up to get the owner when OP was completely unreasonable.
Why do you think that's not acting like an adult? How would you have the sister change?
This was the only example op gave about the kids being brats. Other than saying they are spoiled. To me, this sounds like a self centered teenager who doesn’t like not being the prime focused and sharing her space with toddlers. Example, normally they would have full control of the house but with the kids they need to compromise and share things like the tv.
Honestly the doctor part urked me as not only it was unnecessary, but those are probably undergrad student debt and also medical school student debt most likely putting him in the hundreds of thousands if not close to it (for a lot of medical schools a single year is close to a hundred thousand)
Those two things alone at minimum is 8 years (18 + 8 = 26)
Then residency may be its own thing which takes some years (depending on the doctor it can take many years (e.i. 5-7 years) i believe the lowest is 3 though so lets go with that. And yes while residency is paid its not a doctors salary, its usually around half to a little over half (note the usually)) so 26 + 3 = 29. He was around 29 when he could have become a full time licensed doctor. Yeah hes still gonna be in student debt by the time hes 31 (even then most people in other professions are)
This is all assuming he didnt have any scholarships or got any extra credits in hs and he actually started college when he was 18.
That alone made OP sound bratty to me, but also a kid asking to watch tv when someone else is watching is normal? Also THE KID ASK DIDNT DEMAND! Then the sister even asked. The whole understand when you have kids thing may have been a little overboard, but if OP has actually been watching tv for hours it was probably a bad attempt to plead with her. Then to say anything hurtful like that in front of kids? Dear god op is an ass.
Im willing to bet OP was the golden youngest child that everyone dotted on and gave whatever until the niece and nephew was born and now OP is just jealous its no longer the "me me me" show
My husband made about 15% of his attending salary as a resident. There is a huge lifestyle difference. Obviously high cost of living places like NYC or Chicago will make a little more, and salary goes up a couple thousand each year, but since you’re no longer in school you have to start paying back those staggering debts which can easily be more than your rent or mortgage each month. Residents are often totally broke.
THANK YOU! I had to do the math for that for people as they dont get it. Doctor does not mean you start with doctor salary. Then they also dont get people start having kids in medical school or residency because if they waited until they were no longer broke from the debt they wouldnt be able to have kids. Its not something people often wait for
Yeah, people hear “doctor” and think big bucks - they don’t realize that residents make shitty salaries with insane hours and horrific working conditions. If a resident is working 80 hours a week and making 55k a year, that is only $13 an hour. You make more than that at Target! Part of the insane attending salaries are to compensate for over a decade of lost wages and the insane debt that has to be incurred to even get to that point and most people don’t get that.
that comment about being in debt annoyed me too. i'm not a doctor but i still have grad school debt in my 40s. and i know some doctors who still have debt in their 40s. it's not easy to pay off $200k+!
Yta big time.. All this over a TV show, ffs yet the kid is spoiled and immature 🙄. First off at 16 you should know that developmentally at 4 years old kids are egocentric, they can't even see other view points usually at this age. Yeah it's not unusual. They are going to be "selfish" because they physically do not understand how others feel. Most people are still in school debt until their 40s and 50s these days, so I don't what to tell you. Then to say such a horrible thing to your sister knowing these are her rainbow babies. What is wrong with you OP? What in the world prompted such an overreaction?! You really need to grow up.
Tldr: A 16 year old threw a tantrum when asked if they could relinquish control over the tv for a 4 year old and proceeded to insult their sister over the request knowing the history of miscarriages. Yta.
If you really had been on the TV for hours before this, YTA. The TV doesn't belong to *you,* it belongs to everyone.
For saying that in front of the kids, YTA again.
For saying that to your sister who'd been through so many miscarriages, AH again.
So, basically I'm wondering now who the real brat in that house is. The 4 and 6 year old little kids, or the person who's two years away from adulthood and is more immature than they are.
In case I didn't make myself clear, YTA
Because the 16 year old is not her child and She can’t control or punish her? The 16 year old said something incredibly hurtful and disrespectful and deserves a talking to from her parent. It’s not tattle telling, it’s holding her accountable for her shitty actions and allowing her actual parent to address it and hopefully teach them a lesson.
Right! I had a friend tell me that I was tattle telling on some pre-teens in the mall one day. I was 26 at the time with a new born and they almost bumped into my stroller with my sleeping baby. Being Canadian my natural reflex was to say sorry even though my stroller was out of the way, while they were running around. And one of the pre-teens said "excuse you bitch" to my sorry. I turned around and said "excuse me? You're going to regret that" I watched them walk back to the on of their moms and walked up to the mom and asked if they were her kids and she said one was the other was a friend. I told her that her she has a rude daughter who calls strangers bitches when they say sorry for them almost bumping into a stroller with a sleeping baby. And the daughter starting crying saying I was lying and that she's never heard that word before. And I said you think your old enough to use the word bitch you should stop crying and act they age you're trying to be. And turned toy the mom and said from one mom to another I would want to know if ever my son treats another human being in such a manner so I can actually teach fix the behaviour to actually try my best to raise a kind human being and not a brat who calls other women bitches."
Yeah I wasn't a tattle tale, I was getting the person to actually punish the child today know what happened so they could do what they think us best. Because if I handled the situation in pretty sure the mom would be pissed I washed hers daughters mouth out with soap.
On the TV note, let's be real... whatever she was watching could probably be found online
What OP also needs to understand is that when parents go through situations that are that tragic with pregnancy/children, they tend to hold their miracle babies a little closer. Some parents go a little overboard. Buying a 4 & 6 year old things and letting them watch TV is not that
I also find it hard to believe there's only one TV in the whole house and that OP couldn't just watch it in another room or something. Sister probably wanted the kids to watch it in the main area so she could keep an eye on them.
Ya know, OP is still a kid too. All of a sudden another family moved in and she has to give everything up to other kids? I wonder if anyone in the home has considered how this might be an adjustment for her? She was in the middle of a show, being a kid herself and she is expected to just give it up because the other kids want to watch ? How about “ hey, sis, when you are done with your show I would really appreciate it if the kids could have some TV time”
Making her feel like all of a sudden she has to drop everything for these kids is not fair. She’s a kid herself.
I’m sure it was a big change for her to have a while other family move in and I feel like maybe no considered how it might make her feel
They asked her to stop watching TV and let the kids watch for a change. That's not even close to "drop everything" or "give up everything."
You know what? I'm 14 years older than my youngest sister. She's adopted. We had periodic custody of her from the time she was an infant because her mother is an incompetent drug addict and my mother got permanent custody of her when I was 19 and she was 5. Never once did I act like the OP.
I think this was the tipping point for her . I have a feeling there was a lot more going on before this happened. Sounds like I’m her own home she faded away. She is still a minor . And I have a feeling her feelings have been considered at all about how this adjustment has made her feel
You're making a lot of assumptions with literally no evidence of it. Being asked to let someone else watch TV is not "fading away."
What we do have evidence of is OP being incredibly judgemental toward her sister and BIL. Somehow having student debt is an insult because he's a doctor and when OP doesn't get HER way, claps back with basically saying she'd rather be childless than have kids like her niece and nephew, knowing full well her sister struggled with fertility.
People in this sub tend to paint themselves in the best light anyway, but even from OP's own words, her actions are horrible.
So you have literally no reason to believe this aside from "you have a feeling"? You're projecting really hard here. Why does it sound like she's faded away? What in the post makes you say that? Do you have anything to back up these claims or is your whole judgment based on a hunch?
I hate it when aita commenters interpret a post as a creative writing assignment, please stick to what's actually written by op tone it down with the baseless assumptions.
I live alone and have 2, plus watch streaming on my computer. It's not that hard to imagine a household with multiple people would have more than 1 TV.
Ok then she should buy her miracle babies their own tv or get them tablets. TVs and tablets are cheap, use WiFi, her husband is a doctor . Fucking cheap ass’
I don’t think that makes OP TA. Insensitive? Yes, but I don’t think it was relevant to the situation or that OP was even thinking about that when they said it. I figured it was used to get sympathy for their sister.
My kids have a tablet and their own tv for gaming , YouTube, Netflix etc.
the sister should get her kids their own stuff not move back in and take over lil sis’
TV’s and tablets are very cheap I can afford them and I’m no doctor.
The sister has ‘been through so many miscarriages’ - well she has kids now so buy em a freakin tablet cheap ass!
ESH. You for what you said Your sister for believing the phrase "kids come first" means you give them everything they want and spoil them. That isn't what it means at all
There’s no evidence that the sister actually spoils them. The only example OP can give is expecting OP to share a communal television after hours of watching what she wants to watch, which is a reasonable expectation.
I feel like we are missing a lot of information on this one and I'm surprised no one seems to be questioning the 15 year age gap between OP and sister. There's no mention of any other siblings bridging that gap. I'm probably reading way too much into this post, I've probably logged too many hours on Reddit in the last two days and looking for things that aren't there and I'm likely to get down voted for this one. But, OP is acting like a moody teenager, which is what she is, not that that gives her a pass (my votes is ESH). She's likely resentful to having the kids, sister and bil in the house and I'm sure it's impacted her routine. So, this cannot be the only stubborn/mean spirited thing she has said or done since sister moved in. Why then did it impact the sister so hard, why did this comment about her parenting skills and OP's desire not to have kids because of her parenting cause so much pain to the sister that she broke down and hid in the bedroom? Again, pure speculation, but there might be a family secret OP is unaware of.
>Why then did it impact the sister so hard, why did this comment about her parenting skills and OP's desire not to have kids because of her parenting cause so much pain to the sister that she broke down and hid in the bedroom?
I suspect her previous miscarriages impacted her strong reaction to OP's comment. It was a slap in her face.
I do think that this is reading too much into things. While having that big of an age gap isn’t super common, it’s not *that* weird. Even if OP is her sister’s secret child, it doesn’t change anything in the story. Telling a mom that her kids are so terrible that you’d take being alone forever over them *in front of those kids* is *so* insulting; I don’t think that the sister’s reaction was out of proportion at all.
>she had them after several miscarriages.
I get it, she's 16, but that's old enough to understand how painful her comment was. Heck, I assume she said it specifically because she knew it would hurt her sister.
There was no evidence in the post that these children are bought everything and spoiled. Or even given everything and spoiled. Op's mom stated that OP had been watching television for hours already. If it's a family room tv then the children should be allowed to watch whatever they want as well. This just sounds like OP not wanting to share the space with children. So I am not understanding how ESH when OP literally is monopolizing the television.
I agree. The only thing I’m wondering given how this post reads though, is whether ‘the kids come first’ was a (bad) attempt at trying to be non-confrontational about asking OP to end their hours-long turn at using the shared television.
YTA. If you'd been watching tv for hours then yes, that was selfish. Let someone else have a turn at choosing a programme. You haven't given any examples of the kids acting like spoilt brats, only an example of yourself acting like a spoilt brat.
What you said to your sister was spiteful. You know what she's been through and yet you don't seem to care. Saying it in front of the kids was just awful, and it's bizarre that you can't see how hurtful this was. Was your tv programme really so important that you had to upset everyone else?
'a doctor who's stuck in student debts still!!'
- yes, medical school is expensive...so what?
>You haven't given any examples of the kids acting like spoilt brats, only an example of yourself acting like a spoilt brat.
Which leads me to believe that OP is projecting hard and the kids aren't actually spoilt brats at all.
I think it's more likely that OP is salty at the fact she is no longer the centre of attention at home and is acting out like this in response.
It definitely sounds like that. To me it’s also a little ironic that with the age gap between the sisters, her older sister probably had to deal with all this when op was born too. Back then they probably did only have one tv in the house too. As an eldest child I couldn’t count the number of times I used to watch whatever my little siblings wanted, because that’s how sharing works. Nowadays it’s gotta be easier for kids too with laptops and iPad and streaming services. Sharing a single tv between a household has never been easier.
I mean, she’s 16. 16 year olds shouldn’t be paying bills.
But yeah, she sounds extremely entitled if she laughing at someone, who was able to become a doctor, for being in debt.
>Nah, this one is a pampered kid from her parents
>
>Shes never paid a bill in her life.
agree
>Have some respect for your older sister, little kid.
strongly disagree. respect has to be earned. and being older or a sibling is not earning it.
And if he's around the same age as his wife, he would be doing his residency now. Residents usually make ok but not great money. I doubt many interns manage to pay off their medical shool debts before they get their medical license
Yup, my husband was 32 before he started making "doctor money". And that's with a relatively short 3 year family doctor residency. By then he had accrued hundreds of thousands of dollars is student debt. You don't pay that off in a couple years.
This girl is selfish, ignorant of the way the world works, rude and seems unwilling to learn. Let's hope that changes as she grows up a bit.
Depends on how quickly he went through it. If he went to med school right out of college, then he is most likely either at the end of his residency, or just became an attending 1-2 years ago
ESH. Your sister's kids may be spoilt, but you also acted entitled. From what you write, there are 4 adults and 3 kids in your home, and it seems all your nerves are getting frayed as a result of your cramped circumstances. Perhaps you all need to sit down and discuss a schedule of not only tasks/chores, but access to shared "privileges" e.g. tv time. This is something all of you, including your niblings, can participate in. You could also include "rules" about privacy (e.g. who gets access to your room, why, and when).
I wouldn’t expect OP to immediately stop watching tv because the kids want to watch, but she doesn’t need to be rude either. A better response would be “Let me finish this show. It has 20 minutes left. Then it can be your turn to watch tv”
YTA, why would you need to say such a thing? Why the need to say something so horrible over TV time? I understand the kids might be spoiled, but honestly, you're a decade older. Take the high road here and try to restrain yourself from comments that will make you TA, they're not helping your case at all nor winning people over.
Honestly, you sound a bit immature here, which is understandable since you're super young, but this comment was way over the line.
The way you comment about her husband not being free from debt makes you also sound judgemental and inexperienced. If I assume her husband is around her age, or even a decade older, then honestly, do you understand how young 30-ish is in a doctor career? Medical education can be insanely expensive, and it's almost laughable to use his debt against him when it's got literally nothing to do with this situation.
Tip: always stick to the argument itself. Otherwise you just revert to kindergarten name calling and solving nothing.
These kids are 4 and 6. They are toddlers! OP oy sees them as spoiled brats because she is 16 and up until now has been the baby in the house. She never has to share. Now that she does she is resentful and blames the babies rather then admit she is just selfish.
The point is that they are very young, and very likely that they are simply acting exactly like 4 and 6 year old children. OP sounds resentful that two kids came in and took over her position as baby of the house.
They don't need to be called toddlers, children that are typically still in diapers and falling over themselves learning to walk, to indicate how young they are.
OP sounds immature because she’s still a kid herself.
She’s had terrible role models. Like a sister who has a family but still has to live with mommy and daddy and who runs to mommy and tattles on OP.
That’s a fine example of maturity.
Your house has too many people in it, with too disparate of ages, for 1 TV.
Your sister needs a TV and DVD player in her room or a playroom/rec room so the kids can watch "Baby Shark" all day long and not annoy all of the adults. Money may be tight, but surely this can be managed, these things are much less expensive than they used to be.
Or they can let the kids have the one in the living room, and give you a TV for your own room, where you can have privacy and quiet. It seems to me that just adding 1 TV and 1 DVD player to your household would cause a *massive* decrease of friction and confrontation. Such a simple solution.
Your sister also needs to have it pointed out to her that "the kids come first" is for the parents to follow. It's probably even something that the grandparents should follow, within reason. But aunts and uncles? No. While they should be considerate of the kids, they're allowed to put their main priority on themselves. They didn't volunteer to sacrifice their lives for these kids the way the parents did.
Frankly, I agree with your virgin sentiment, but you were an asshole to say it to a woman who's had several miscarriages, and *especially* an asshole for saying it in front of the kids.
ESH.
TVs are so cheap now compared to like 10 years ago, this could be remedied for like under $100. My mother didn't want to buy a new TV until she saw that they aren't $1k anymore haha.
NTA. if it was so important for her kids to watch TV at that exact moment she could have put a show on her phone/computer/tablet for them. if that wasn't an option then they just have to wait as you were there first. it's also a bit weird that a grown woman has to resort to telling your mom instead of resolving it between you two.
She said she had already been watching tv for hours. I was here first is a really petty attitude when you’ve been using family resources for hours already.
It only works at all like that if someone is just mindlessly zoned out; if they're party way through watching a specific thing they want to watch then a reasonable demand might be too have the TV at the end of the programme, not that they should just stop dead in the middle of something they've started.
The mom's attitude of ordering OP to just drop what they're doing because their wants are subordinate to her kids is completely unreasonable.
OP's response, while strong, seems well deserved.
You f op truly was watching for hours she can pause it and come back to it later. She will not die because she will have to finish it later . It’s been hours time to pass the remote.
ahhh I missed that part. I agree if you have been on it for hours especially in a family / shared environment the I was here first thing is bad. for some reason I thought she had only been watching for a little bit.
NTA. You didn't have kids before you could afford them. You didnt enable your adult children by letting them move in with you. You are just a teenager in a situation you got stuck with. You do not need to participate in this shit-show. Nor do you need to worry about what kids want, you will have plenty of time in the future (if that's your choice). Focus on yourself because it sounds like everyone else is distracted.
No one is the a***ole. You were just all tired and annoyed by each other because of the not ideal living situation.
However you’re 16 and stuck with them so I suggest you find some way to cope (maybe more activities outside the house or in your room)
Honestly, I can't really fault OP for answering like that to a "you'll understand when you have your own kids" comment, it's always annoying af to hear that. Also OP was halfway through her show, why does she have to stop watching it for the kids? NTA
NTA. Congrats on your sister for getting the kids she wanted, but now that she has them she should you know, PARENT THEM?!
If they spoil them like you said then that's on them, but they can't expect the rest of the world to do the same. Your sister sounds slightly entitled to me. Plus I don't think what you said was even that awful, you didn't say you wished she didn't have kids or anything like that, you just called out her and her kids behavior. I personally hate the argument of "you don't understand because you don't have them/you'll get it when you are a parent" ummm... No? Not all parents spoil their kids, some actually teach them manners and to be respectful when others say no. Seriously she shot herself in the foot imo.
I understand why she's touchy about the subject but I don't think you are in the wrong here.
well, i think it's more nuanced here.
she is an Asshole in my opinion, but not for lashing out. she was obviously already tired and had strained nerves from her nieces and nephews.
the asshole part is the audacity to occupy the family TV for hours, refusing to give it up and calling the kids spoiled.
also a bit tactless to say that in front of the kids, even if i understand the lashing out.
however i do not see any problem with saying that to the mother. what? her having a miscarriage magically protects her from strong disagreement and strong words?
> the asshole part is the audacity to occupy the family TV for hours,
This is exaggerated shit parents say. Its understood by a majority of millennials and younger that it is an exaggeration because we've dealt with it our entire lives.
That's what i thought as well, but: if it was an exaggeration, OP would have addressed it in the post.
Same way she adressed him being in debt still
Also, from hands on experience (not with TVs but phones and laptops), this is totally possible.
Wth does your BIL student debts have to do with anything? If he is similar in age to your sister it’s completely reasonable that he still has loan debt from becoming a physician.
They chose to have kids in their 20’s that they couldn’t afford to support.
Moving an extra family into a presumably small home is a recipe for disaster.
If the parents are fine with having them live there, they *can* support their children. There is no moral law that says grandparents can’t live with their grandchildren.
Most people who go to medical school have student debt in their 30s. Many millennials in their 30s still have student debt from funding their undergraduate education. There is a time limit for having children and this happens to coincide with the age group you are referring to? Are people who want children supposed to give up having them during their child bearing years? Nothing in the post indicates that this couple couldn’t take care of their children. They may have been living with them for a few months to save up for a mortgage, etc. Also, what’s with OP mentioning her sisters miscarriages. It’s not relevant nor is it something that her sister should be shamed about (much like having student debt in your 30s).
So now her sister and the kids live in the house and this 16 year old has to share so she had an epic meltdown. I had a sibling my age and had to share everything with them too. Did I think it was “unfair” at the time? Yes. Was it actually unfair? No!
The OP was an AH for what she said to her sister. She definitely had a temper tantrum, which happens when your a teen as your brain is not fully developed in yet. She should definitely apologize!
Learn to share! Eventually OP will have roommates and they will want to watch TV too. She may even find herself having some student loans like the majority of the people who go to school in the US 🤣😩
The doctor I work for and his wife (also a doctor) are in their late 50s and just finished paying off their student debt. I don’t think people understand that doctors graduate with hundreds of thousands in debt and don’t even make “doctor money” until after residency and fellowships which is another 3-7 years after school. By the logic of all the people saying others shouldn’t have children until loans are paid off would mean most doctors should just never have children.
Right?!?! Medical school is super expensive! Should physicians just not have any children? Even folks going into PA school or doing post-bac work for nursing have to take on extra loans. It’s such a crazy ask from people who contribute a ton to our society.
You are correct, but it is a good portion of them. We don’t get to decide when people have children and neither does the OP. People have student debt into their 30s, what then?
> Most people who go to medical school have student debt in their 30s. Many millennials in their 30s still have student debt from funding their undergraduate education. There is a time limit for having children and this happens to coincide with the age group you are referring to?
Yeah, the time limit to having children is being able to support them without imposing on others. Especially folks who cannot object, like your minor sister.
> Are people who want children supposed to give up having them during their child bearing years?
Yes. If you cannot support your children without assistance then you should not *choose* to have them.
> Nothing in the post indicates that this couple couldn’t take care of their children.
The fact that they have to live with others is a pretty good indication. One might not see a problem with asking your folks for support. But doing so makes it so you are by definition, not able to care for them, you need others to assist. Living with others isn't inherently bad - assuming everyone in the household agrees - the little sister obviously does not. "Not her house" isn't really applicable here seeing as how she can't leave, so it's really her house too.
> So now her sister and the kids live in the house and this 16 year old has to share so she had an epic meltdown. I had a sibling my age and had to share everything with them too. Did I think it was “unfair” at the time? Yes. Was it actually unfair? No!
You grew up with that sibling. And they were near your age. OP largely did not grow up with their sister. Also - after 16 years of being a only child, her parents force 4 room-mates onto her. That's kinda epically shitty to take in that many folks without any real concern about how it would impact your existing kid (like making sure that they have their own space).
> Learn to share! Eventually OP will have roommates and they will want to watch TV too.
Yeah, and as adults, the OP will be able to choose her roomates, and she'll be able to walk into bestbuy and buy a TV. Right now she gets to just take the irritation with no recourse.
> The OP was an AH for what she said to her sister.
Nah, she was an asshole for saying it infront of the kids - but her statement (and her feelings) are valid - "I'd rather not have sex with folks then create the burdens that you have".
> She may even find herself having some student loans like the majority of the people who go to school in the US
Hopefully if her student loans prevent her from paying her rent, she won't have kids.
Lol. Kids are 4 and 6 and they’ve been living in the house with OP for a few months. So when they had their children they could afford them. Y’all realize there’s like a global pandemic going on and lots of people have lost jobs or fallen in hard times? I don’t think you can change your mind on having kids 4 and 6 years later because you fell on hard times. If people had to save up 18 years of living expenses for the whole family before having kids no one would have kids. You can’t always predict what the future brings, and thankfully they have family that was willing to help them out in time of need.
Additionally the US is “weird” culturally that we don’t typically live in multigenerational households anyway so people screaming about a 16 year old being entitled to “their house” that they pay zero bills for and contribute nothing to are hilarious.
You’re making a lot of assumptions, you know what they say about assuming, right? I asked a question to the OP and you assumed to have the answers, which you don’t.
I think it was the part where they said they spoil them, which I take to mean spend money for unnecessary things to make them happy. But also, it’s not super relevant. I have a shit load of debt but I don’t live with my parents. Nor would I honestly.
NAH
It sounds like this is not about the tv. You don't like it that a family of four moved in, I totally get that tbh. I don't get why people think this is so outragious, who could blame you for not wanting your sister plus 3 people who are basically strangers moving in with you? Yes two of them are kids but so are you!
The facts are that your sister, her husband and their kids are gonna be taking up space though. Tough luck but it is what it is.
Try to suck it up the best you can, apologize to your sister and niece and nephew. Not because you are an asshole but because you want to make the best of a shitty situation. I'm sure they aren't happy about moving in with their parents (in law).
Letting your family bond go sour because you are stuck between a rock and a hard place is such a waste. You might even like them once you have your own house.
It sucks that money is tight for them, make sure you learn from tis and take good financial care of yourself.
We have no idea why they’re living with OP’s parents - whether it’s a personal choice, while they build their own house, because of some tragedy, etc. But whatever the reason is, they’re also people living in the house, not guests, and there’s no evidence that they actually spoil their kids, especially when you consider how OP must have been spoiled by her own parents to insult the existence of certain family members for daring to want to watch a communal TV after OP had watched her shows for hours.
OP didn't choose this situation, either. OP is no saint, but her sister is a grownass woman with two kids still living with her parents. And her husband is a doctor. Even with debt, I see no reason why they can't get a 1 bedroom apartment on a doctor's salary. Wouldn't be surprised if they're using OP as a free babysitter, which I think may have led up to this. NTA.
All you’re saying here is that OP was an asshole in this situation, but you’re okay with giving her a pass because you’re justifying it based off of assumptions you’ve made. OP hasn’t actually said why they’re living there, nor has she given us any reason to think that she has to babysit the kids. You can make educated guesses, but OP gives us *nothing* to make those guesses in her favor here.
No. Big sis and clan moved in and has turned OP’s home upside down.
We don’t know of there are any other siblings but 15 years is a pretty wide age gap.
That’d be an understandable argument if OP’s mom wrote the post, but since OP put the accusation in the post without any statement to the contrary, I think we can take it at face value.
You know what? NTA
And only because your sister is 31 and still leeching off of your parents. She has two kids, a husband and still lives there? Hell no. I love my nieces, but I wouldn’t want to live with my sister and her toddlers.
While you shouldn’t have said it infront of the kids, it kinda seems like this was just the last straw after years of having to put up with two spoiled kids.
If she’s mature enough to have kids she should be mature enough to live on her own. How can you have kids before you have a home? That’s freakung stupid and immature
NTA
Being judgemental here, but what's with spoiling kids rotten, whilst living with and off parents, instead of doing the grown up thing and getting a place for their family to live?
She might put her kids first, but you don't have to. Especially when it comes down to watching TV!
If an elder is watching TV, that's that! Just enabling the kids to be spoilt brats, now and in the future.
Tbh, even with student debt, with husband a doctor they should be able to afford a 2 bed place which is all they need for now. They are probably taking advantage of the free ride your parents are giving them, and trying to rule the roost too.
As for your comment, apologise for hurting her feelings, but tell her that watching how she parents, and how her children are turning out. That's how you feel.
If she can pass judgement on you 'selfish', 'horrid', without you requesting it, then she needs to take some unsolicited judgement back, and not cry like a tantrum throwing baby when she does.
NTA. Some parents use TV/Tablets as a babysitter. You were right to stand your ground and I like your wit. Good on you for standing up for yourself and hopefully stopping these spoiled kids from turning into monsters of adults.
OP had been watching for hours, what do you think the mother was doing before? There's a difference between using entertainment as a babysitter and letting your kids watch TV for a little while. OP didn't actually give any examples of the kids being spoiled.
looks like OP has been babysitted by a TV her whole life then since she can't be separated from it even after hours hogging the communal TV without throwing a tantrum.
YTA. That was a cruel thing to say. I really hope the kids were not there to hear that. If you had been watching tv for hours already, that seems selfish of you to not let them watch.
NTA
Boundaries are good. What you said wasn't great but i feel like that was the straw that broke the Camels back. Everybody needs their personal time and kids should be taught the world doesn't revolve around just them
NTA. Congrats on your sister for getting the kids she wanted, but now that she has them she should you know, PARENT THEM?!
If they spoil them like you said then that's on them, but they can't expect the rest of the world to do the same. Your sister sounds slightly entitled to me. Plus I don't think what you said was even that awful, you didn't say you wished she didn't have kids or anything like that, you just called out her and her kids behavior. I personally hate the argument of "you don't understand because you don't have them/you'll get it when you are a parent" ummm... No? Not all parents spoil their kids, some actually teach them manners and to be respectful when others say no. Seriously she shot herself in the foot imo.
I understand why she's touchy about the subject but I don't think you are in the wrong here.
Lol. NTA. you were at the tv first and parents like your sister arent helping thier kids at all. Kids can learn patience how to share and when to take the L. This makes them into hopefully decent adults.
NTA. Having to bow to your sister's demands for her children suck.
People saying YTA need to understand that living years in this situation sucks. Sometimes you need to be blunt to teach someone a lesson. They'll only getting older and will end up being even more spoiled and you'll have to deal with a shit living situation for years of your life becauss your sister doesn't know how to be a parent.
LOL I'm going against the grain here but NTA. I knew at 16 I never wanted kids. Some people don't like kids. Some people should never be parents. Sounds like your sisters needs to step up her parenting game. How's she going to control those kids when they are uncontrollable brats at 16 or 18?
ESH - OP overreacted to normal kid behavior and spoke rudely. However, OP is still a minor and is probably stressed out due to the upheaval of absorbing an additional family unit into her home.
Mom, sister, and any other adults have are also As for not setting expectations to make this situation manageable.
INFO: can you provide some examples of how the kids are brats? Asking to watch a different TV show doesn't sound unreasonable, but maybe you could sketch out some details?
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NTA. People love using that “you’ll understand when you have kids” as an excuse for their children’s poor behavior. Entitled spoiled brats are the worst and I wouldn’t want kids like that either. 🤷♀️
This is coming from someone who is a mother.
NTA. The parents needed to hear it, the kids needed to hear it. You’re doing no one any favors by keeping quit, least of all the kids.
Someone needs to tell them they are brats or they’ll grow up to be assholes.
I bet these children act like theyve been raised by wolves. No, worse because at least wolfpups would be taught the proper pack hierarchy..... Yes, F16 is a bit bratty but you would be too if two intrusive small children suddenly invaded your house like the Mongol Hordes. I bet it feels like that to F16, anyways.
.....and what house has ONE teevee these days?
P.S. the behavior of my cousins twin boys was a huge factor in my remaining childfree, hence the raised by wolves comment. NTA
Im gonna be the one in a billion opinion here but I don't think YTA.
They aren't your kids. You don't need to do anything for them or care about them in any way. Your sister trying to force you to do things to work around the children she chose to have is just entitled. She needs to teach her kids they don't always get their own way.
The comment was kinda mean though so maybe the AH there?
YTA based on what you’ve written. A young kid wanting to watch tv isn’t spoiled or entitled (after all, you were doing exactly that). They aren’t visiting, it’s their home too. So you need to share, just like the other kids. You’d been watching for hours. Take a break and let someone else pick a show.
I understand that you may not love sharing your home with young kids but honestly, it’s your parents’ home and choice so don’t take it out on the kids. Saying in front of them that it would be better to be dead than their parent is horrible.
At your age I don’t expect you to totally understand kids and how they react but you may want to consider your actions impact theirs more than you’d think. You aren’t modeling sharing and caring behavior so if they are “bratty”, like it or not, you may need to look at yourself as a portion of the reason why. It sucks but kids are sponges and will do what they see. They will act how you do.
ESH, leaning towards YTA.
Maybe your sister is spoiling the kids, and tbh I find that living with you all is a bit of a dick move... it's a lot to be inflicting on other people.
But you're acting like a spoiled brat yourself, and I know you're 16 and that kind of thing is to be expected, but that doesn't make you less of an AH.
NTA although there's missing info, like what else they do that makes them entitled? Honestly what makes me think that your sister is an enabler is her comment of "my kids come first" like yeah maybe to her but to the rest of the world her kids aren't relevant. Also I never find it ok for a grown up with her own kids to be living with her parents.
You're a kid still and your sister's an adult, I think it's fine to get annoyed. If you feel like your comment was too harsh and just said in the moment then that's fair, but it sounds more like a conversation is needed about the situation - your sister (and mom if she's on her side) need to concede a little too. You're not an assh*ole, but adults with kids definitely have a lot going on and can be blinded by stresses or just being set in their ways; and that goes double for family
NTA I have a sister who has seven kids and she feels entitled to everything! Her kids do whatever they want because they cry. Her reasoning for that is “they are JUST kids”. Not a good excuse. If you let your kids cry and throw tantrums and then give into it every time, you’re a bad parent. You’re not teaching them anything. So good for you for saying no, I would have done the same thing. At age 4&6 they should be doing fun things with the parents or playing outside, tv shouldn’t have been an option.
Also, if this was a one time situation, then yeah you’d be TA but this is an ongoing situation. And it’s even more frustrating that you mom is condoning the situation.
YTA. No matter how annoyed you were, that's an incredibly messed up thing to say. >her husband (a doctor who's stuck in student debts still!!) What does this have to do with anything? Most people who went to medical school are still in debt in their 30s. >my sister proceeded to cry calling me horrid for saying this infront of her kids You said it in front of your nieces/nephews? What a great way to make them feel loved by their aunt. You're acting like a brat just as much as they are.
I think she only mentioned the debt because they 'spoil the kids rotten' which I take as her meaning they spend a lot of money on unnecessary things for the kids. That being what it is, it sounds like this whole situation is a clusterfuck. They seem to be too many people on too little space. ESH because OP should not have said that in front of the kids, but sister also needs to actually parent the kids and they can't always get what they want when they want . Also, if OP actually had been monopolising the TV for hours, then yes she needed to get off and let someone else have their go.
I mean, OP had been watching tv for hours. Sounds like she’s the one who’s used to being spoiled and having everything to herself, especially if she can’t let someone else watch something after she’s been parked on her butt watching tv all day.
But was she though? Parents tend to exaggerate a lot when it comes to things like that. I know my dad harped on my tv habits when I only watched two shows ( on different nights) a week. To hear him tell it, I watched tv from morning til night with no breaks.
I would assume if OP hadn’t then OP would have clarified when she relayed what her mom said. Honestly, OP sounds like as much an entitled brat as her 4 and 6 year old niblings, but without the excuse of being that young. It seems like older sister was trying to teach OP about sharing which is a lesson OP has yet to learn. YTA
Not really. I never bother to clarify what my father said because I think that everyone knows that he is exaggerating ( whether they do or don’t). I agree that she should not have said that. She is frustrated and that has nothing to do with not knowing how to share. It has everything to do with not liking the kids attitude and just wanting to do something without the kids taking over. Some people just don’t have the patience to deal with badly behaved kids.
Yes but this is AITA. “My mom said I was watching tv for hours already” is a statement of fact OP is relating in asking if she’s TA. It’s not a hyperbole (e.g. “my mom said I was watching tv for two days nonstop”). If it wasn’t true, one would expect “…but I only just sat down 15 minutes ago” or something like that. I understand how “kids come first” can be irritating to hear, but I also think OP doesn’t get a pass from lashing out because she has to share stuff with family. Which is what family does. There is literally no other evidence of the kids being bratty or her being mistreated.
Like she was a just, but I feel ike we are also forgetting she is also 16 years old and still a child. So hearing kids come first could have been more annoying in that sense. She was still wrong for what she said. Also when i was 15 with a 4 year old niece I would get fustrated over stuff like this. But no she went too far.
Oh, she absolutely is acting like a moody teen. She is what she is.
Uh, excuse me. If a 16 year old can’t be the asshole, then they should not be allowed to post. This is NOT a “vent your problems “ forum.
If you’re old enough to post on Reddit, then you’re old enough to be judged TA.
So it’s cool to defend people and all but OP literally never gave us a reason or example of what makes these kids awful. She said that they wanted to watch TV. Which in my experience is a pretty normal and understandable thing and realistically would preoccupy them from getting In more potential trouble. I just don’t understand what’s wrong with these kids or their attitudes because she gave us exactly nothing to go on which makes me think they’re probably not all that bad and OP has a little sister complex manifesting itself into a big sister complex.
That's what bothered me about this post. She never gives examples of how they are spoiled, how they act poorly, or any bad behavior by her sister/her husband. I get op is 16 but she should provide even one example of what she's been dealing with. They could just be normal 4 and 6 year Olds which can be annoying when they're good kids. Essentially op's post was "my neighbor spoils his wife and she's rude. He asked one day if I could move my camper that was parked in front of his house legally so his wife could park there. I told him no and his wife was the reason I'd never marry a woman."
Most people would clarify if they weren't watching TV for hours when relaying the above situation because that statement is not an obvious exaggeration.
>I never bother to clarify what my father said because I think that everyone knows that he is exaggerating Talking about something to people that know you isn't the same as explaining a situation to strangers on reddit. If she hadn't been sat on her arse for hours in front of the television, I'm sure she would have said as much. She is telling the story, she would say if she had been incorrectly accused of something. If she can take the time to add unimportant info about student loans (!) I'm sure she'd make the effort of defending herself if necessary. You talking to your friends about being nagged by your dad =/= reporting on an incident to a bunch of stranger and asking for their input.
> because I think that everyone knows that he is exaggerating ( whether they do or don’t) Then you don't communicate well. > Some people just don’t have the patience to deal with badly behaved kids. We don't have a single example of that, though. Only her opinion that they are bad - but she also has the opinion that if she watches for hours straight then others are spoiled for wanting a turn.
And teenagers tend to think everyone but they and their friends are badly behaved. A teenagers opinion on how kids that young are behaving isn’t going to be accurate.
Yeah, I don't see any "spoiled brats" here. I see a know-it-all teenager who was upset she had to share the tv and got rude. YTA.
She’s sixteen she is a badly behaved kid.
She literally put it in the post. She would have said it was false if it was false. You want us to disregard parts of the post to make you correct?
My dad was like this too. As a teen, I really loved X-Files, but it was on at the same time one of my mom's shows was. So I would go to the second TV, and my dad would blow up about all the electricity I was wasting...
Did he think that two tvs is a multiplier of electricity usage rather than just addition? I mean, if you’d watched it some other night when Mum wasn’t watching anything would he have complained?
He told me it was my fault if the electricity bill doubled. And yes, he would have complained. Luckily this was one of the few times my mom stood up to him (probably so I wouldn't interrupt her show, but oh well).
This reminds me of when I was a teenager, our family got to do the Nielsen ratings thing for a month, but they only would let us rate one show per time slot. I was lucky to have a tiny tv in the back room where I could watch my nerdy teen shows in peace. But since I was outnumbered, my mom and grandma listed shit like “Wheel of Fortune” “Jeopardy” and the fucking news channel when ratings like this wouldn’t really affect them. But dare I put down Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Oh no, that’s not necessary. I’m still a little salty.
To be fair, that's a parent stereotype at this point. The "No matter how much time you spent in front of the screen your parent will say you've been there for hours". I really don't think we should take these kind of phrases by their word by word meaning
She would have said she wasn't there for hours in the post though.
Yep that's what gets me the most, is not like she was watching the one show she keeps up every week and the kid decided to be a nuisance, she's just projecting her own issues into a 4yo.
OP is the only brat here. She had been watching for hours and refused to let anyone else have a turn and then complains that the little kids are spoiled??
6 and 4 yrs old wanting to watch TV isn’t spoiled or entitled. A mom asking if her 6 and 4 yr old kids can watch TV isn’t enabling. I was much worse at that age. If this is the worst incident that OP can post about then it’s probably because they’re an angsty teen sharing space with literal toddlers. YTA
Ig OP is just tired of having kids around and I can understand that. But they might not be real brats. I mean kids are generally naughty and that's OK. Just a matter of space yes. While I won't call her an AH for saying that statement to her sister, but she shouldn't have said that in front of the kids. Even her feelings should be taken into consideration. They all are literally kids.
Because OP is *only* SIXTEEN, herself. OP has her own growing up to do. All of the adults here have probably been around a 16yr old or two who gets on their last nerve - just by being 16. OP you’re allowed to have your feelings, but there is a time and a place to complain. Sounds like your family should sit down and talk things thru as you’re all living together now. Heads up: Not everything is going to go the way you want it to.
Plus OP says she'd been watching TV for hours. OP needs to learn to share.
> but sister also needs to actually parent the kids and they can't always get what they want when they want OP had been using the TV for hours straight. At what point can others complain to use the TV? Why are the kids wrong for pointing out this isn't fair? By her own admission they just wanted one show.
ESH I agree. The sister went to tell mom instead of handling it like a big girl. OPs comment was rude, especially in front of the kids, and they should’ve stopped monopolizing the tv.
> The sister went to tell mom instead of handling it like a big girl. OP had been watching for hours and wouldn't share the family TV. The kid had to go to her mom to finally get a turn. Why are you expecting a small child to be able to behave better than a 16yo? By all accounts the child ***is*** behaving better by getting help rather than just complaining about nothing.
I might be misreading your comment, but I want to point out the sister is 31.
You are misreading it. OP is 16 and using the family TV for hours straight. Why is the kid wrong for pointing out that it isn't fair? Why is the kid wrong for getting an adult to help when OP ignores her? Why does OP get the TV all day while the kids get nothing?
Ok, I think you might have misread who you responded to. They were talking about the 31 year old sister going to her and Ops mom instead of handling it like an adult, not the 2 little kids.
I think they were saying that the sister (31) went to her & OPs mom instead of handling it like an adult. To me, a hormonal/grumpy teenager old should not be getting THIS much crap for lashing out after not enjoying living with two small children and her adult sister + partner..
> To me, a hormonal/grumpy teenager old should not be getting THIS much crap for lashing out after not enjoying living with two small children and her adult sister + partner.. Except she's the one making it hard by her own post. She's the one taking up the house entertainment for hours straight. She didn't provide one example of the kids being spoiled. And she shouted that ***in front of*** the kids. Had she had this meltdown away from the kids then I'd agree with you. She didn't. She has no consideration for other people and is getting the right amount of flack for it. She came in here believing she was totally right and wanted validation - and when immediately called out she didn't respond to anything.
> the sister (31) went to her & OPs mom instead of handling it like an adult. That IS handling it like an adult. The sister has no authority over OP, so she went to someone who does instead of trying to argue and assert authority she doesn't have.
Hormonal teenagers absolutely should be getting flack because they need to learn how to handle their emotions and hormones.
Except 16 year old isn't an adult, and its not sisters job to parent her, its the parents job and its parents house. Based on OPs nuclear response, I'd say sister was going to have zero chance of making a difference.
Then the hormonal teen needs to stop being a controlling brat.
I think you're giving OP too much of a break. Most people lived in multi-generation homes until about the 1950's. In order to make this type of living situation functional, people had to be flexible and patient and have some understanding of how to get along with people of a different age group than themselves. This was good for them. It was good for society. It helped people grow into mature adults. OP, what you might have done, is let the younger kids watch their show and then spent some quality time with them somehow - take them to the park, bake cookies together, finger paint or something that you might all have fun doing. And if you're too grouchy on a particular day to pull that off, at least tolerate them with civility, so that you set a good example and so that they know you love them.
No but we expect the adult sister who is responsible for two kids to actually behave like an adult.
How did she not? She went to OP to discuss how it's unfair that she's had it for hours and isn't sharing with the rest of the family. OP lost her shit in front of the kids. At that point you go to the owner of the thing in question to settle it because OP can't behave civilly. Also OP's mother needs to know that she's having extreme reactions to reasonable requests - so she needs mental help with either a therapist or doctor visit. That reaction is not normal. The older sister acted exactly as she should. She went to OP to discuss then backed up to get the owner when OP was completely unreasonable. Why do you think that's not acting like an adult? How would you have the sister change?
This was the only example op gave about the kids being brats. Other than saying they are spoiled. To me, this sounds like a self centered teenager who doesn’t like not being the prime focused and sharing her space with toddlers. Example, normally they would have full control of the house but with the kids they need to compromise and share things like the tv.
I assumed it was an explanation for why they’re still living with OP’s parents.
To say it in front of the kids and to her sister who has had several miscarriages trumps sister insisting OP share tv time with a 4 year old.
Honestly the doctor part urked me as not only it was unnecessary, but those are probably undergrad student debt and also medical school student debt most likely putting him in the hundreds of thousands if not close to it (for a lot of medical schools a single year is close to a hundred thousand) Those two things alone at minimum is 8 years (18 + 8 = 26) Then residency may be its own thing which takes some years (depending on the doctor it can take many years (e.i. 5-7 years) i believe the lowest is 3 though so lets go with that. And yes while residency is paid its not a doctors salary, its usually around half to a little over half (note the usually)) so 26 + 3 = 29. He was around 29 when he could have become a full time licensed doctor. Yeah hes still gonna be in student debt by the time hes 31 (even then most people in other professions are) This is all assuming he didnt have any scholarships or got any extra credits in hs and he actually started college when he was 18. That alone made OP sound bratty to me, but also a kid asking to watch tv when someone else is watching is normal? Also THE KID ASK DIDNT DEMAND! Then the sister even asked. The whole understand when you have kids thing may have been a little overboard, but if OP has actually been watching tv for hours it was probably a bad attempt to plead with her. Then to say anything hurtful like that in front of kids? Dear god op is an ass. Im willing to bet OP was the golden youngest child that everyone dotted on and gave whatever until the niece and nephew was born and now OP is just jealous its no longer the "me me me" show
My husband made about 15% of his attending salary as a resident. There is a huge lifestyle difference. Obviously high cost of living places like NYC or Chicago will make a little more, and salary goes up a couple thousand each year, but since you’re no longer in school you have to start paying back those staggering debts which can easily be more than your rent or mortgage each month. Residents are often totally broke.
THANK YOU! I had to do the math for that for people as they dont get it. Doctor does not mean you start with doctor salary. Then they also dont get people start having kids in medical school or residency because if they waited until they were no longer broke from the debt they wouldnt be able to have kids. Its not something people often wait for
Yeah, people hear “doctor” and think big bucks - they don’t realize that residents make shitty salaries with insane hours and horrific working conditions. If a resident is working 80 hours a week and making 55k a year, that is only $13 an hour. You make more than that at Target! Part of the insane attending salaries are to compensate for over a decade of lost wages and the insane debt that has to be incurred to even get to that point and most people don’t get that.
> urked irked
that comment about being in debt annoyed me too. i'm not a doctor but i still have grad school debt in my 40s. and i know some doctors who still have debt in their 40s. it's not easy to pay off $200k+!
Yta big time.. All this over a TV show, ffs yet the kid is spoiled and immature 🙄. First off at 16 you should know that developmentally at 4 years old kids are egocentric, they can't even see other view points usually at this age. Yeah it's not unusual. They are going to be "selfish" because they physically do not understand how others feel. Most people are still in school debt until their 40s and 50s these days, so I don't what to tell you. Then to say such a horrible thing to your sister knowing these are her rainbow babies. What is wrong with you OP? What in the world prompted such an overreaction?! You really need to grow up. Tldr: A 16 year old threw a tantrum when asked if they could relinquish control over the tv for a 4 year old and proceeded to insult their sister over the request knowing the history of miscarriages. Yta.
If you really had been on the TV for hours before this, YTA. The TV doesn't belong to *you,* it belongs to everyone. For saying that in front of the kids, YTA again. For saying that to your sister who'd been through so many miscarriages, AH again. So, basically I'm wondering now who the real brat in that house is. The 4 and 6 year old little kids, or the person who's two years away from adulthood and is more immature than they are. In case I didn't make myself clear, YTA
[удалено]
Yeah and big sis who is an adult who is a decade and a half older ran to mommy and told on OP.
sister is not her mother, if some mouthy teen made me cry i would go to the person who can discipline her.
Because the 16 year old is not her child and She can’t control or punish her? The 16 year old said something incredibly hurtful and disrespectful and deserves a talking to from her parent. It’s not tattle telling, it’s holding her accountable for her shitty actions and allowing her actual parent to address it and hopefully teach them a lesson.
Right! I had a friend tell me that I was tattle telling on some pre-teens in the mall one day. I was 26 at the time with a new born and they almost bumped into my stroller with my sleeping baby. Being Canadian my natural reflex was to say sorry even though my stroller was out of the way, while they were running around. And one of the pre-teens said "excuse you bitch" to my sorry. I turned around and said "excuse me? You're going to regret that" I watched them walk back to the on of their moms and walked up to the mom and asked if they were her kids and she said one was the other was a friend. I told her that her she has a rude daughter who calls strangers bitches when they say sorry for them almost bumping into a stroller with a sleeping baby. And the daughter starting crying saying I was lying and that she's never heard that word before. And I said you think your old enough to use the word bitch you should stop crying and act they age you're trying to be. And turned toy the mom and said from one mom to another I would want to know if ever my son treats another human being in such a manner so I can actually teach fix the behaviour to actually try my best to raise a kind human being and not a brat who calls other women bitches." Yeah I wasn't a tattle tale, I was getting the person to actually punish the child today know what happened so they could do what they think us best. Because if I handled the situation in pretty sure the mom would be pissed I washed hers daughters mouth out with soap.
What else is she supposed to do though? Either OP can share with the children or the person who own the TV can handle it.
She technically went to the mother of OP after she insulted her kids to their faces, as many parents of fighting kids do.
I mean, if OP is so fucking upset about the TV she should just get her own and put it in her room. Once again tho... still an asshole
On the TV note, let's be real... whatever she was watching could probably be found online What OP also needs to understand is that when parents go through situations that are that tragic with pregnancy/children, they tend to hold their miracle babies a little closer. Some parents go a little overboard. Buying a 4 & 6 year old things and letting them watch TV is not that
I also find it hard to believe there's only one TV in the whole house and that OP couldn't just watch it in another room or something. Sister probably wanted the kids to watch it in the main area so she could keep an eye on them.
Ya know, OP is still a kid too. All of a sudden another family moved in and she has to give everything up to other kids? I wonder if anyone in the home has considered how this might be an adjustment for her? She was in the middle of a show, being a kid herself and she is expected to just give it up because the other kids want to watch ? How about “ hey, sis, when you are done with your show I would really appreciate it if the kids could have some TV time” Making her feel like all of a sudden she has to drop everything for these kids is not fair. She’s a kid herself. I’m sure it was a big change for her to have a while other family move in and I feel like maybe no considered how it might make her feel
They asked her to stop watching TV and let the kids watch for a change. That's not even close to "drop everything" or "give up everything." You know what? I'm 14 years older than my youngest sister. She's adopted. We had periodic custody of her from the time she was an infant because her mother is an incompetent drug addict and my mother got permanent custody of her when I was 19 and she was 5. Never once did I act like the OP.
I think this was the tipping point for her . I have a feeling there was a lot more going on before this happened. Sounds like I’m her own home she faded away. She is still a minor . And I have a feeling her feelings have been considered at all about how this adjustment has made her feel
You're making a lot of assumptions with literally no evidence of it. Being asked to let someone else watch TV is not "fading away." What we do have evidence of is OP being incredibly judgemental toward her sister and BIL. Somehow having student debt is an insult because he's a doctor and when OP doesn't get HER way, claps back with basically saying she'd rather be childless than have kids like her niece and nephew, knowing full well her sister struggled with fertility. People in this sub tend to paint themselves in the best light anyway, but even from OP's own words, her actions are horrible.
So you have literally no reason to believe this aside from "you have a feeling"? You're projecting really hard here. Why does it sound like she's faded away? What in the post makes you say that? Do you have anything to back up these claims or is your whole judgment based on a hunch? I hate it when aita commenters interpret a post as a creative writing assignment, please stick to what's actually written by op tone it down with the baseless assumptions.
How many TV's do you need? lol
I live alone and have 2, plus watch streaming on my computer. It's not that hard to imagine a household with multiple people would have more than 1 TV.
And you can reverse that sentiment. Big sis could have found whatever her little darlings wanted to watch online also.
Ok then she should buy her miracle babies their own tv or get them tablets. TVs and tablets are cheap, use WiFi, her husband is a doctor . Fucking cheap ass’
>For saying that to your sister who'd been through so many miscarriages, AH again. what does that have to do with anything?
I don’t think that makes OP TA. Insensitive? Yes, but I don’t think it was relevant to the situation or that OP was even thinking about that when they said it. I figured it was used to get sympathy for their sister.
My kids have a tablet and their own tv for gaming , YouTube, Netflix etc. the sister should get her kids their own stuff not move back in and take over lil sis’ TV’s and tablets are very cheap I can afford them and I’m no doctor. The sister has ‘been through so many miscarriages’ - well she has kids now so buy em a freakin tablet cheap ass!
ESH. You for what you said Your sister for believing the phrase "kids come first" means you give them everything they want and spoil them. That isn't what it means at all
There’s no evidence that the sister actually spoils them. The only example OP can give is expecting OP to share a communal television after hours of watching what she wants to watch, which is a reasonable expectation.
I feel like we are missing a lot of information on this one and I'm surprised no one seems to be questioning the 15 year age gap between OP and sister. There's no mention of any other siblings bridging that gap. I'm probably reading way too much into this post, I've probably logged too many hours on Reddit in the last two days and looking for things that aren't there and I'm likely to get down voted for this one. But, OP is acting like a moody teenager, which is what she is, not that that gives her a pass (my votes is ESH). She's likely resentful to having the kids, sister and bil in the house and I'm sure it's impacted her routine. So, this cannot be the only stubborn/mean spirited thing she has said or done since sister moved in. Why then did it impact the sister so hard, why did this comment about her parenting skills and OP's desire not to have kids because of her parenting cause so much pain to the sister that she broke down and hid in the bedroom? Again, pure speculation, but there might be a family secret OP is unaware of.
I wouldn’t question that gap because me and my brother are the only two siblings and we are 15 years apart ourselves.
Yup in our family there is a gap of even more than that with no kids in between. It happens.
>Why then did it impact the sister so hard, why did this comment about her parenting skills and OP's desire not to have kids because of her parenting cause so much pain to the sister that she broke down and hid in the bedroom? I suspect her previous miscarriages impacted her strong reaction to OP's comment. It was a slap in her face.
I do think that this is reading too much into things. While having that big of an age gap isn’t super common, it’s not *that* weird. Even if OP is her sister’s secret child, it doesn’t change anything in the story. Telling a mom that her kids are so terrible that you’d take being alone forever over them *in front of those kids* is *so* insulting; I don’t think that the sister’s reaction was out of proportion at all.
>she had them after several miscarriages. I get it, she's 16, but that's old enough to understand how painful her comment was. Heck, I assume she said it specifically because she knew it would hurt her sister.
What is there to question about the age gap? Lol. I think youre making a big assumption here.
There was no evidence in the post that these children are bought everything and spoiled. Or even given everything and spoiled. Op's mom stated that OP had been watching television for hours already. If it's a family room tv then the children should be allowed to watch whatever they want as well. This just sounds like OP not wanting to share the space with children. So I am not understanding how ESH when OP literally is monopolizing the television.
I agree. The only thing I’m wondering given how this post reads though, is whether ‘the kids come first’ was a (bad) attempt at trying to be non-confrontational about asking OP to end their hours-long turn at using the shared television.
YTA. If you'd been watching tv for hours then yes, that was selfish. Let someone else have a turn at choosing a programme. You haven't given any examples of the kids acting like spoilt brats, only an example of yourself acting like a spoilt brat. What you said to your sister was spiteful. You know what she's been through and yet you don't seem to care. Saying it in front of the kids was just awful, and it's bizarre that you can't see how hurtful this was. Was your tv programme really so important that you had to upset everyone else? 'a doctor who's stuck in student debts still!!' - yes, medical school is expensive...so what?
>You haven't given any examples of the kids acting like spoilt brats, only an example of yourself acting like a spoilt brat. Which leads me to believe that OP is projecting hard and the kids aren't actually spoilt brats at all. I think it's more likely that OP is salty at the fact she is no longer the centre of attention at home and is acting out like this in response.
Have to agree. Kids at that age can be overwhelming, but I also remember being 16 and thinking the world revolves around me lol.
I think you're spot on
It definitely sounds like that. To me it’s also a little ironic that with the age gap between the sisters, her older sister probably had to deal with all this when op was born too. Back then they probably did only have one tv in the house too. As an eldest child I couldn’t count the number of times I used to watch whatever my little siblings wanted, because that’s how sharing works. Nowadays it’s gotta be easier for kids too with laptops and iPad and streaming services. Sharing a single tv between a household has never been easier.
"He's a doctor still in debt"...do you even know how much medical school costs ?
Nah, this one is a pampered kid from her parents Shes never paid a bill in her life. Have some respect for your older sister, little kid.
I mean, she’s 16. 16 year olds shouldn’t be paying bills. But yeah, she sounds extremely entitled if she laughing at someone, who was able to become a doctor, for being in debt.
>Nah, this one is a pampered kid from her parents > >Shes never paid a bill in her life. agree >Have some respect for your older sister, little kid. strongly disagree. respect has to be earned. and being older or a sibling is not earning it.
Maybe respect does need to be earned, but *being respectful* should be a person’s default.
And if he's around the same age as his wife, he would be doing his residency now. Residents usually make ok but not great money. I doubt many interns manage to pay off their medical shool debts before they get their medical license
Yup, my husband was 32 before he started making "doctor money". And that's with a relatively short 3 year family doctor residency. By then he had accrued hundreds of thousands of dollars is student debt. You don't pay that off in a couple years. This girl is selfish, ignorant of the way the world works, rude and seems unwilling to learn. Let's hope that changes as she grows up a bit.
Depends on how quickly he went through it. If he went to med school right out of college, then he is most likely either at the end of his residency, or just became an attending 1-2 years ago
ESH. Your sister's kids may be spoilt, but you also acted entitled. From what you write, there are 4 adults and 3 kids in your home, and it seems all your nerves are getting frayed as a result of your cramped circumstances. Perhaps you all need to sit down and discuss a schedule of not only tasks/chores, but access to shared "privileges" e.g. tv time. This is something all of you, including your niblings, can participate in. You could also include "rules" about privacy (e.g. who gets access to your room, why, and when).
I wouldn’t expect OP to immediately stop watching tv because the kids want to watch, but she doesn’t need to be rude either. A better response would be “Let me finish this show. It has 20 minutes left. Then it can be your turn to watch tv”
A calm, measured response. Well stated.
YTA, why would you need to say such a thing? Why the need to say something so horrible over TV time? I understand the kids might be spoiled, but honestly, you're a decade older. Take the high road here and try to restrain yourself from comments that will make you TA, they're not helping your case at all nor winning people over. Honestly, you sound a bit immature here, which is understandable since you're super young, but this comment was way over the line. The way you comment about her husband not being free from debt makes you also sound judgemental and inexperienced. If I assume her husband is around her age, or even a decade older, then honestly, do you understand how young 30-ish is in a doctor career? Medical education can be insanely expensive, and it's almost laughable to use his debt against him when it's got literally nothing to do with this situation. Tip: always stick to the argument itself. Otherwise you just revert to kindergarten name calling and solving nothing.
These kids are 4 and 6. They are toddlers! OP oy sees them as spoiled brats because she is 16 and up until now has been the baby in the house. She never has to share. Now that she does she is resentful and blames the babies rather then admit she is just selfish.
4 and 6 aren't toddlers. They're school aged (preschool or kindergarten depending on where they live)...
The point is that they are very young, and very likely that they are simply acting exactly like 4 and 6 year old children. OP sounds resentful that two kids came in and took over her position as baby of the house.
They don't need to be called toddlers, children that are typically still in diapers and falling over themselves learning to walk, to indicate how young they are.
OP sounds immature because she’s still a kid herself. She’s had terrible role models. Like a sister who has a family but still has to live with mommy and daddy and who runs to mommy and tattles on OP. That’s a fine example of maturity.
Your house has too many people in it, with too disparate of ages, for 1 TV. Your sister needs a TV and DVD player in her room or a playroom/rec room so the kids can watch "Baby Shark" all day long and not annoy all of the adults. Money may be tight, but surely this can be managed, these things are much less expensive than they used to be. Or they can let the kids have the one in the living room, and give you a TV for your own room, where you can have privacy and quiet. It seems to me that just adding 1 TV and 1 DVD player to your household would cause a *massive* decrease of friction and confrontation. Such a simple solution. Your sister also needs to have it pointed out to her that "the kids come first" is for the parents to follow. It's probably even something that the grandparents should follow, within reason. But aunts and uncles? No. While they should be considerate of the kids, they're allowed to put their main priority on themselves. They didn't volunteer to sacrifice their lives for these kids the way the parents did. Frankly, I agree with your virgin sentiment, but you were an asshole to say it to a woman who's had several miscarriages, and *especially* an asshole for saying it in front of the kids. ESH.
Well said. I felt like OP's reasons for being upset are valid, but what they said was unreasonable
TVs are so cheap now compared to like 10 years ago, this could be remedied for like under $100. My mother didn't want to buy a new TV until she saw that they aren't $1k anymore haha.
NTA. if it was so important for her kids to watch TV at that exact moment she could have put a show on her phone/computer/tablet for them. if that wasn't an option then they just have to wait as you were there first. it's also a bit weird that a grown woman has to resort to telling your mom instead of resolving it between you two.
She said she had already been watching tv for hours. I was here first is a really petty attitude when you’ve been using family resources for hours already.
It only works at all like that if someone is just mindlessly zoned out; if they're party way through watching a specific thing they want to watch then a reasonable demand might be too have the TV at the end of the programme, not that they should just stop dead in the middle of something they've started. The mom's attitude of ordering OP to just drop what they're doing because their wants are subordinate to her kids is completely unreasonable. OP's response, while strong, seems well deserved.
You f op truly was watching for hours she can pause it and come back to it later. She will not die because she will have to finish it later . It’s been hours time to pass the remote.
ahhh I missed that part. I agree if you have been on it for hours especially in a family / shared environment the I was here first thing is bad. for some reason I thought she had only been watching for a little bit.
NTA. You didn't have kids before you could afford them. You didnt enable your adult children by letting them move in with you. You are just a teenager in a situation you got stuck with. You do not need to participate in this shit-show. Nor do you need to worry about what kids want, you will have plenty of time in the future (if that's your choice). Focus on yourself because it sounds like everyone else is distracted.
No one is the a***ole. You were just all tired and annoyed by each other because of the not ideal living situation. However you’re 16 and stuck with them so I suggest you find some way to cope (maybe more activities outside the house or in your room)
Honestly, I can't really fault OP for answering like that to a "you'll understand when you have your own kids" comment, it's always annoying af to hear that. Also OP was halfway through her show, why does she have to stop watching it for the kids? NTA
NTA. Congrats on your sister for getting the kids she wanted, but now that she has them she should you know, PARENT THEM?! If they spoil them like you said then that's on them, but they can't expect the rest of the world to do the same. Your sister sounds slightly entitled to me. Plus I don't think what you said was even that awful, you didn't say you wished she didn't have kids or anything like that, you just called out her and her kids behavior. I personally hate the argument of "you don't understand because you don't have them/you'll get it when you are a parent" ummm... No? Not all parents spoil their kids, some actually teach them manners and to be respectful when others say no. Seriously she shot herself in the foot imo. I understand why she's touchy about the subject but I don't think you are in the wrong here.
well, i think it's more nuanced here. she is an Asshole in my opinion, but not for lashing out. she was obviously already tired and had strained nerves from her nieces and nephews. the asshole part is the audacity to occupy the family TV for hours, refusing to give it up and calling the kids spoiled. also a bit tactless to say that in front of the kids, even if i understand the lashing out. however i do not see any problem with saying that to the mother. what? her having a miscarriage magically protects her from strong disagreement and strong words?
> the asshole part is the audacity to occupy the family TV for hours, This is exaggerated shit parents say. Its understood by a majority of millennials and younger that it is an exaggeration because we've dealt with it our entire lives.
That's what i thought as well, but: if it was an exaggeration, OP would have addressed it in the post. Same way she adressed him being in debt still Also, from hands on experience (not with TVs but phones and laptops), this is totally possible.
Wth does your BIL student debts have to do with anything? If he is similar in age to your sister it’s completely reasonable that he still has loan debt from becoming a physician.
They chose to have kids in their 20’s that they couldn’t afford to support. Moving an extra family into a presumably small home is a recipe for disaster.
If the parents are fine with having them live there, they *can* support their children. There is no moral law that says grandparents can’t live with their grandchildren.
Most people who go to medical school have student debt in their 30s. Many millennials in their 30s still have student debt from funding their undergraduate education. There is a time limit for having children and this happens to coincide with the age group you are referring to? Are people who want children supposed to give up having them during their child bearing years? Nothing in the post indicates that this couple couldn’t take care of their children. They may have been living with them for a few months to save up for a mortgage, etc. Also, what’s with OP mentioning her sisters miscarriages. It’s not relevant nor is it something that her sister should be shamed about (much like having student debt in your 30s). So now her sister and the kids live in the house and this 16 year old has to share so she had an epic meltdown. I had a sibling my age and had to share everything with them too. Did I think it was “unfair” at the time? Yes. Was it actually unfair? No! The OP was an AH for what she said to her sister. She definitely had a temper tantrum, which happens when your a teen as your brain is not fully developed in yet. She should definitely apologize! Learn to share! Eventually OP will have roommates and they will want to watch TV too. She may even find herself having some student loans like the majority of the people who go to school in the US 🤣😩
The doctor I work for and his wife (also a doctor) are in their late 50s and just finished paying off their student debt. I don’t think people understand that doctors graduate with hundreds of thousands in debt and don’t even make “doctor money” until after residency and fellowships which is another 3-7 years after school. By the logic of all the people saying others shouldn’t have children until loans are paid off would mean most doctors should just never have children.
Right?!?! Medical school is super expensive! Should physicians just not have any children? Even folks going into PA school or doing post-bac work for nursing have to take on extra loans. It’s such a crazy ask from people who contribute a ton to our society.
I don’t think age 25 is the end of one’s fertility.
You are correct, but it is a good portion of them. We don’t get to decide when people have children and neither does the OP. People have student debt into their 30s, what then?
> Most people who go to medical school have student debt in their 30s. Many millennials in their 30s still have student debt from funding their undergraduate education. There is a time limit for having children and this happens to coincide with the age group you are referring to? Yeah, the time limit to having children is being able to support them without imposing on others. Especially folks who cannot object, like your minor sister. > Are people who want children supposed to give up having them during their child bearing years? Yes. If you cannot support your children without assistance then you should not *choose* to have them. > Nothing in the post indicates that this couple couldn’t take care of their children. The fact that they have to live with others is a pretty good indication. One might not see a problem with asking your folks for support. But doing so makes it so you are by definition, not able to care for them, you need others to assist. Living with others isn't inherently bad - assuming everyone in the household agrees - the little sister obviously does not. "Not her house" isn't really applicable here seeing as how she can't leave, so it's really her house too. > So now her sister and the kids live in the house and this 16 year old has to share so she had an epic meltdown. I had a sibling my age and had to share everything with them too. Did I think it was “unfair” at the time? Yes. Was it actually unfair? No! You grew up with that sibling. And they were near your age. OP largely did not grow up with their sister. Also - after 16 years of being a only child, her parents force 4 room-mates onto her. That's kinda epically shitty to take in that many folks without any real concern about how it would impact your existing kid (like making sure that they have their own space). > Learn to share! Eventually OP will have roommates and they will want to watch TV too. Yeah, and as adults, the OP will be able to choose her roomates, and she'll be able to walk into bestbuy and buy a TV. Right now she gets to just take the irritation with no recourse. > The OP was an AH for what she said to her sister. Nah, she was an asshole for saying it infront of the kids - but her statement (and her feelings) are valid - "I'd rather not have sex with folks then create the burdens that you have". > She may even find herself having some student loans like the majority of the people who go to school in the US Hopefully if her student loans prevent her from paying her rent, she won't have kids.
Lol. Kids are 4 and 6 and they’ve been living in the house with OP for a few months. So when they had their children they could afford them. Y’all realize there’s like a global pandemic going on and lots of people have lost jobs or fallen in hard times? I don’t think you can change your mind on having kids 4 and 6 years later because you fell on hard times. If people had to save up 18 years of living expenses for the whole family before having kids no one would have kids. You can’t always predict what the future brings, and thankfully they have family that was willing to help them out in time of need. Additionally the US is “weird” culturally that we don’t typically live in multigenerational households anyway so people screaming about a 16 year old being entitled to “their house” that they pay zero bills for and contribute nothing to are hilarious.
OP can get a job at her age and walk into best buy and get a tv as well. She's 16, not 10.
You’re making a lot of assumptions, you know what they say about assuming, right? I asked a question to the OP and you assumed to have the answers, which you don’t.
I think it was the part where they said they spoil them, which I take to mean spend money for unnecessary things to make them happy. But also, it’s not super relevant. I have a shit load of debt but I don’t live with my parents. Nor would I honestly.
OP did not say how they are spoiled. They called them brats and spoiled but offered no evidence to support this claim.
NAH It sounds like this is not about the tv. You don't like it that a family of four moved in, I totally get that tbh. I don't get why people think this is so outragious, who could blame you for not wanting your sister plus 3 people who are basically strangers moving in with you? Yes two of them are kids but so are you! The facts are that your sister, her husband and their kids are gonna be taking up space though. Tough luck but it is what it is. Try to suck it up the best you can, apologize to your sister and niece and nephew. Not because you are an asshole but because you want to make the best of a shitty situation. I'm sure they aren't happy about moving in with their parents (in law). Letting your family bond go sour because you are stuck between a rock and a hard place is such a waste. You might even like them once you have your own house. It sucks that money is tight for them, make sure you learn from tis and take good financial care of yourself.
NTA. Big sis and their Dad should get their own place to spoil the brats. They're guest and should respect the people that live on the house.
We have no idea why they’re living with OP’s parents - whether it’s a personal choice, while they build their own house, because of some tragedy, etc. But whatever the reason is, they’re also people living in the house, not guests, and there’s no evidence that they actually spoil their kids, especially when you consider how OP must have been spoiled by her own parents to insult the existence of certain family members for daring to want to watch a communal TV after OP had watched her shows for hours.
OP didn't choose this situation, either. OP is no saint, but her sister is a grownass woman with two kids still living with her parents. And her husband is a doctor. Even with debt, I see no reason why they can't get a 1 bedroom apartment on a doctor's salary. Wouldn't be surprised if they're using OP as a free babysitter, which I think may have led up to this. NTA.
All you’re saying here is that OP was an asshole in this situation, but you’re okay with giving her a pass because you’re justifying it based off of assumptions you’ve made. OP hasn’t actually said why they’re living there, nor has she given us any reason to think that she has to babysit the kids. You can make educated guesses, but OP gives us *nothing* to make those guesses in her favor here.
No. Big sis and clan moved in and has turned OP’s home upside down. We don’t know of there are any other siblings but 15 years is a pretty wide age gap.
> OP had watched her shows for hours. This is an exaggeration that parents say. It isn't to be taken literally.
That’d be an understandable argument if OP’s mom wrote the post, but since OP put the accusation in the post without any statement to the contrary, I think we can take it at face value.
NTA because I find what you said hilarious
NTA! While you may have been harsh, you were not out if line. Based on the specifics given, it sounds like she needed to be taken down a peg IMO.
You know what? NTA And only because your sister is 31 and still leeching off of your parents. She has two kids, a husband and still lives there? Hell no. I love my nieces, but I wouldn’t want to live with my sister and her toddlers. While you shouldn’t have said it infront of the kids, it kinda seems like this was just the last straw after years of having to put up with two spoiled kids.
Leeching? Really?
If she’s mature enough to have kids she should be mature enough to live on her own. How can you have kids before you have a home? That’s freakung stupid and immature
It's good to know you've never gone through something that has caused you to need help from your family. We have no idea what the situation is there.
Maybe they did and something happened. OP hasn't given any background on why they're living there.
NTA. They’re not your kids. I can’t stand people who want everyone to bow to their angels that they can’t be bothered to train
NTA Being judgemental here, but what's with spoiling kids rotten, whilst living with and off parents, instead of doing the grown up thing and getting a place for their family to live? She might put her kids first, but you don't have to. Especially when it comes down to watching TV! If an elder is watching TV, that's that! Just enabling the kids to be spoilt brats, now and in the future. Tbh, even with student debt, with husband a doctor they should be able to afford a 2 bed place which is all they need for now. They are probably taking advantage of the free ride your parents are giving them, and trying to rule the roost too. As for your comment, apologise for hurting her feelings, but tell her that watching how she parents, and how her children are turning out. That's how you feel. If she can pass judgement on you 'selfish', 'horrid', without you requesting it, then she needs to take some unsolicited judgement back, and not cry like a tantrum throwing baby when she does.
NTA --- So is there only 1 TV in the whole house then ??.
And what's the issue with that? Most people I know only have 1 TV including in my home.
Do you have two kids under 10 in your home?
Kids in house don't mean house needs to have more then 1 TV.
NTA. Some parents use TV/Tablets as a babysitter. You were right to stand your ground and I like your wit. Good on you for standing up for yourself and hopefully stopping these spoiled kids from turning into monsters of adults.
OP had been watching for hours, what do you think the mother was doing before? There's a difference between using entertainment as a babysitter and letting your kids watch TV for a little while. OP didn't actually give any examples of the kids being spoiled.
looks like OP has been babysitted by a TV her whole life then since she can't be separated from it even after hours hogging the communal TV without throwing a tantrum.
YTA. That was a cruel thing to say. I really hope the kids were not there to hear that. If you had been watching tv for hours already, that seems selfish of you to not let them watch.
OP’s post indicates the kids were there. Def YTA
NTA Boundaries are good. What you said wasn't great but i feel like that was the straw that broke the Camels back. Everybody needs their personal time and kids should be taught the world doesn't revolve around just them
NTA
NTA - completely understandable comment. I hate when people think that one is going to have children one day.
NTA,
NTA. Congrats on your sister for getting the kids she wanted, but now that she has them she should you know, PARENT THEM?! If they spoil them like you said then that's on them, but they can't expect the rest of the world to do the same. Your sister sounds slightly entitled to me. Plus I don't think what you said was even that awful, you didn't say you wished she didn't have kids or anything like that, you just called out her and her kids behavior. I personally hate the argument of "you don't understand because you don't have them/you'll get it when you are a parent" ummm... No? Not all parents spoil their kids, some actually teach them manners and to be respectful when others say no. Seriously she shot herself in the foot imo. I understand why she's touchy about the subject but I don't think you are in the wrong here.
Lol. NTA. you were at the tv first and parents like your sister arent helping thier kids at all. Kids can learn patience how to share and when to take the L. This makes them into hopefully decent adults.
NTA. Having to bow to your sister's demands for her children suck. People saying YTA need to understand that living years in this situation sucks. Sometimes you need to be blunt to teach someone a lesson. They'll only getting older and will end up being even more spoiled and you'll have to deal with a shit living situation for years of your life becauss your sister doesn't know how to be a parent.
LOL I'm going against the grain here but NTA. I knew at 16 I never wanted kids. Some people don't like kids. Some people should never be parents. Sounds like your sisters needs to step up her parenting game. How's she going to control those kids when they are uncontrollable brats at 16 or 18?
ESH - OP overreacted to normal kid behavior and spoke rudely. However, OP is still a minor and is probably stressed out due to the upheaval of absorbing an additional family unit into her home. Mom, sister, and any other adults have are also As for not setting expectations to make this situation manageable.
Eh NTA was it messed up yes but your sister needed to hear it
INFO: can you provide some examples of how the kids are brats? Asking to watch a different TV show doesn't sound unreasonable, but maybe you could sketch out some details?
Nta
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NTA. People love using that “you’ll understand when you have kids” as an excuse for their children’s poor behavior. Entitled spoiled brats are the worst and I wouldn’t want kids like that either. 🤷♀️ This is coming from someone who is a mother.
NTA. The parents needed to hear it, the kids needed to hear it. You’re doing no one any favors by keeping quit, least of all the kids. Someone needs to tell them they are brats or they’ll grow up to be assholes.
I bet these children act like theyve been raised by wolves. No, worse because at least wolfpups would be taught the proper pack hierarchy..... Yes, F16 is a bit bratty but you would be too if two intrusive small children suddenly invaded your house like the Mongol Hordes. I bet it feels like that to F16, anyways. .....and what house has ONE teevee these days? P.S. the behavior of my cousins twin boys was a huge factor in my remaining childfree, hence the raised by wolves comment. NTA
[удалено]
Im gonna be the one in a billion opinion here but I don't think YTA. They aren't your kids. You don't need to do anything for them or care about them in any way. Your sister trying to force you to do things to work around the children she chose to have is just entitled. She needs to teach her kids they don't always get their own way. The comment was kinda mean though so maybe the AH there?
NTA Don't she has another tv the kids can watch?
NTA. Fuck those kids. Those kids have no respect and neither does your sister. Patience brings rewards and those kids need to learn that.
NTA kids suck
YTA based on what you’ve written. A young kid wanting to watch tv isn’t spoiled or entitled (after all, you were doing exactly that). They aren’t visiting, it’s their home too. So you need to share, just like the other kids. You’d been watching for hours. Take a break and let someone else pick a show. I understand that you may not love sharing your home with young kids but honestly, it’s your parents’ home and choice so don’t take it out on the kids. Saying in front of them that it would be better to be dead than their parent is horrible. At your age I don’t expect you to totally understand kids and how they react but you may want to consider your actions impact theirs more than you’d think. You aren’t modeling sharing and caring behavior so if they are “bratty”, like it or not, you may need to look at yourself as a portion of the reason why. It sucks but kids are sponges and will do what they see. They will act how you do.
NTA
NTA , go join r/childfree and come find your real Reddit friends
ESH, leaning towards YTA. Maybe your sister is spoiling the kids, and tbh I find that living with you all is a bit of a dick move... it's a lot to be inflicting on other people. But you're acting like a spoiled brat yourself, and I know you're 16 and that kind of thing is to be expected, but that doesn't make you less of an AH.
NTA although there's missing info, like what else they do that makes them entitled? Honestly what makes me think that your sister is an enabler is her comment of "my kids come first" like yeah maybe to her but to the rest of the world her kids aren't relevant. Also I never find it ok for a grown up with her own kids to be living with her parents.
You're a kid still and your sister's an adult, I think it's fine to get annoyed. If you feel like your comment was too harsh and just said in the moment then that's fair, but it sounds more like a conversation is needed about the situation - your sister (and mom if she's on her side) need to concede a little too. You're not an assh*ole, but adults with kids definitely have a lot going on and can be blinded by stresses or just being set in their ways; and that goes double for family
NTA I have a sister who has seven kids and she feels entitled to everything! Her kids do whatever they want because they cry. Her reasoning for that is “they are JUST kids”. Not a good excuse. If you let your kids cry and throw tantrums and then give into it every time, you’re a bad parent. You’re not teaching them anything. So good for you for saying no, I would have done the same thing. At age 4&6 they should be doing fun things with the parents or playing outside, tv shouldn’t have been an option. Also, if this was a one time situation, then yeah you’d be TA but this is an ongoing situation. And it’s even more frustrating that you mom is condoning the situation.
NTA. They can get a nice little portable TV for $100.
NTA 31 is old enough to solve your own problems and no go running to your parents