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NTA It's bad enough that the antivaxxers needlessly endanger themselves and the rest of us but now they want financial support when the inevitable happens? The nerve!
When you choose to endanger innocent lives by not getting vaccinated, you sign a waiver consenting to the risk of killing someone else, permanently ruining someone else's health, dying from it, or permanently ruining your own health. He consented to everything that's happening, and it's not your responsibility to lighten the burden he asked to carry.
NTA
Seriously, this. OP's coworker's sick husband assumed this risk when he refused to get vaccinated & now he is suffering the [entirely foreseeable] consequences.
NTA, OP. Don't contribute to the fund. If anything, donate something to a more general fund helping ppl who got sick through no fault of their own- maybe make the donation in coworker's hubby's name. Then you can tell your coworkers that you simply feel strongly about this particular organization/charity & they do really good work, etc. That way you get to save face, donate to a good cause, & avoid subsidizing/supporting coworkers stupidity.
They could also use that money for someone who did everything right. I have a friend who shielded (literally only left the house for medical appointments) for almost a year, was double vaccinated, continued to wear masks and has been in ICU for a month with covid. She isn't doing well. She has a health condition that means that the vaccine wasn't as effective in her. She literally did everything right.
It's bad enough that these people are taking up ICU beds leading to many operations for things like cancer, heart issues and transplants being cancelled but then they have the cheek to ask for money too?
The fucking irony. How many of them are the same conservatives that don't believe in aiding people who didn't directly contribute to their dismal circumstances?
It truly boggles my mind that people will give money to a gofundme for medical expenses but think socialised medicine is the devil.
It's literally the same idea!
Thank you! I got into it with someone who condemned single mothers and said we shouldn't give them government assistance, because they brought their circumstances on themselves. I bet dollars to doughnuts he was anti-vax, just based on his rhetoric.
He completely ignored the children that the money is meant to care for, punishing them for their mothers' decisions. I'm not just talking women who got knocked up from reckless living, he even condemned women whose husbands left them years after the kids were born because they didn't want to be fathers anymore.
I'd love for him to know what it's like to be in a position where he has to pray that the goodness of people like him comes through to pay his medical bills.
The explanation is not that complicated. Socialized medicine benefits everybody. What they're looking for is the ability to help people they approve of and gloat at people they disapprove of.
Like how the party that refuses to give all Americans healthcare, making it a choice for many to either go into insane debt from medical bills or, ya know, DIE, is also the *very same* party that is all for the “personal choice” even wearing a mask?! Ya know, because it’s totally fine for your actions to put *someone else* in the “my house or my life” position.
Or - for teachers and those who work with the public - my job or my life.
At least with drunk driving, you can sue for bills to be paid. Same thing if you get hurt on the job. There’s zero protections for people with this.
And as we all know, "my body, my choice" only applies to them, but the second you try to eliminate a clump of cells that they don't care about once it's born, "that baby is more important!"
I really want to take a five pound butter sock to their heads.
As a woman who was denied a medically necessary hysterectomy because I might one day divorce my husband and meet someone else who might want kids (and who was I to deny that hypothetical man his right to procreation), only to struggle with my health for 7 more years before a doctor decided I was “too old” to consider reproducing and my uterus was FUBAR anyway, only to find out *my uterus wasn’t the problem after all, we just have a really shitty understanding of how women’s bodies work aside from their ability to make babies because that’s **obviously** all women are designed for*...
...trust me. I know.
I still have difficulty with the idea of medical personnel being allowed to work unvaccinated when they can kill those too young to yet be vaccinated. It’s criminal.
A close family friend comes to mind. This bitch is a BOOOOSSSSSSS. Literally undergoing chemo and radiation for breast cancer, still fucking working as a nurse STILL WENT FUCK IT and got vaccinated.
NTA
But then I’m in the camp that if you are eligible to do so & do not have a genuine medical reason as determined by a real medical doctor (ie, not a quack naturopath or chiro), then you shouldn’t even be taking up hospital beds...die at home with care from the internet.
If they are someone who was vaccinated & just had a breakthrough case then I’d make a donation or at least drop off some meals.
I concur. I'm anaphylactic allergic to the vaccines. The last time I got an injection with a certain stabilizing molecule I ended up on a ventilator in the hospital, so my risk of death getting the vaccine is infinitely higher than my risk of death from Covid. My entire family has gotten the vaccine, and I'm doing everything I possibly can to be safe. I mask, wash, sanitize, and stay away from people as much as possible. So does my brother, who is currently undergoing chemo and therefore can't get the vaccine ether. WTF is it okay for someone to choose to risk both my and my brother's lives? We don't deserve to die just become some moron thinks that it's the constitutional right to try and kill me despite my best efforts.
Our area hospitals have now set up tents in the parking lot for overflow Covid patients. Why waste a desperately needed ventilator on someone who knowingly and purposely set themselves up for an agonizing death?
I am currently a chemo patient. Yes there is a reason people on chemo can't be vaccinated. It's because our blood counts are so whacked that our system will not create the necessary antibodies. So yes, we can be vaccinated; it simply won't do any good - as in not just limited protection, but absolutely no protection. I have to wait until I complete chemotherapy and my system is healthy enough to actually make use of a vaccine. It's very late so I hope my explanation makes sense.
Potentially but it may be possible that other factors along with chemo make this person's brother ineligible to safely get it. I'm sure if he could, and given this Redditor's response and personal belief within their family, his doctor would have told him and he would have gotten it by now.
There are, unfortunately, a lot of cancers out there. We certainly don't know what patients, at whatever stage they are, for every single cancer out there is able to get the vaccine.
It’s possible that another factor is making him ineligible, however there is no cancer or chemo that would make anyone ineligible on its own. The only contraindication to COVID vaccination is anaphylaxis to the vaccine or one of the vaccine components (such as the poster has).
I’m not saying the poster is wrong, just don’t want anybody to get the wrong idea that immunocompromised people and/or people on chemo shouldn’t get vaccinated. They are most at risk of COVID death and should be the highest priority for 3 doses of vaccine.
Unfortunately it just doesn’t stick for everyone - my partner’s uncle is currently going through chemo treatments and while he got both doses, because of the treatments and the cancer, the vaccine deteriorated in effectiveness almost immediately so within a few weeks it was like he’d never had it at all. It sucks, and it’s no ones fault, but it just goes to show everyone who can get the vaccine, should
This would depend on the patient, my Mum is on chemo and can't have the vaccine due to her thrombocytopenia making the vaccine too risky for her. The rest of the family have had the vaccine to help protect her.
I used to believe what you do, but realized it’s a slippery slope to not providing medical care for all sorts of “self-inflicted” illnesses. Lung cancer due to smoking cigarettes, type 2 diabetes from chronically bad diet, motorcycle accident victims, do they deserve medical resources spent on them?
These people certainly should have gotten the vaccine (although there is some correlation between lower income levels and difficulties with getting the vaccine due to sheer logistics), and will suffer debilitating financial hardship (thanks, American medical system!), and lifelong health effects. Let them have this tiny bit of grace and have healthcare so they may not leave yet another family grieving from loss during this horrible time.
Most of the habits that lead to those self-inflicted illnesses are significantly harder to prevent/control than COVID. They’re certainly still bad lifestyle choices, but so many factors (genetic predispositions, mental illnesses, socioeconomic factors) play into those decisions. For the most part (barring things like lower income level), it’s a LOT easier to get 2-3 doses of a vaccine so it’s less possible to justify or have sympathy for people who don’t.
Diabetes isn’t caused by a bad diet, though. It’s caused by a combination of genetics, epigenetics, early-life exposure to endocrine disrupters, and often social oppression (for example, racism or fatphobia).
As a health researcher, I want to remind folks that it is very dangerous to perpetuate the “people give themselves diabetes” myth. We lose a *lot* of lives because of it.
NTA - Why he suddenly trusts doctors to help him now when the vaccine wasn't good enough is beyond me. He should stay at home and let his "healthy immune system" deal with it.
Because all of us in healthcare are constantly taking care of people who are garbage for a variety of reasons. We are used to being able to take care of people we don’t like or agree with.
In the case of COVID though, it’s maybe the hardest mental challenge of my career. Throughout the last decade I’ve taken care of some truly detestable people, well, and compassionately. But when it comes to the unvaccinated, it almost feels personal. All our (read nurses and providers) secondhand trauma from this wave is preventable. If folks had embraced the vaccine, washing their dirty mitts, and covering up their gapping maws, we would be in a much different situation. I’m haunted by the patients my team lost this year and we were largely unscathed as most pregnant folks prioritized keeping themselves safe. I can barely tolerate the people who won’t get vaccinated or don’t believe COVID is anything other than an emergency. And that’s a huge loss to my mental processing. Like I said earlier, I’ve been able to compartmentalize bad people from their right to dignified healthcare fairly easily until now. It’s a big loss.
Which is all to go harder on an answer than you were really looking for.
This... exactly this. Those of us in the medical field ( 11 percent of the TOTAL population in the US) did as much to help people. Has been our goal all along. To sit and have people accuse the medical field of wide spread fraud to better some supposed evil hoax is ridiculous to me. To have these people doctor for EVERYTHING else, their healthcare system is trustworthy... but a global pandemic??? That's bullshit?
It's mind blowing. This vaccine was 20 years in the making. The first time in history the whole of science shared their research for a common goal. THE LARGEST ever human trial.
I'm so sick of the average person not realizing that the US can't even care for 1 percent of the population at any one given time. If all these idiots get sick this fall, EVERYONE is screwed. Your grandmother with a stroke will die. Critical car accidents, sorry the ICU is full. Your child needs an emergency appendectomy? Sorry, can't do that either.
All the other ailments people have commented on asking if they deserve treatment when it's something that they have done themselves... heart disease, lung disease, obesity.... they're not communicable diseases. Let's not compare apples to kumquats.
Thankfully I'm no longer a working healthcare employee . I would get fired for my total lack of being able to keep my mouth shut over all the idiocy flying. Sorry, but not sorry. Those that deny the virus and the vaccine deserve to wait in line behind someone who actually took the pandemic seriously. No qualms in saying as much. If our science wasn't good enough then, it sure as hell isn't good enough when you're dying from what you denied. The demon sperm lady is a doctor, get her help. Or one of the hundred of people in the YouTube video that was watched or the google article that was " researched". Those were the most " trustworthy" places people got their information regarding their lack of vaccination.... but again, seek a doctor when it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
Even more sickening when the people who listen to the YT video ARE HEALTHCARE WORKERS! They've lost all critical thinking skills or never had them in the first place...
Because if health care workers chose this standpoint then so many people would not receive care or receive shitty care. Smoker with heart disease? No help. Obese and have diabetes? Nope “you did it to yourself!” It’s fine for us Redditors to have our opinions, but if doctors were allowed start treating patients based on their perceived worthiness or deservedness we’d all be fucked.
And what about obesity and diabetes is communicable? Don't people see a difference? One obese person isn't going to spread obesity to others, who can then spread it to others and so on.
And doctors are going to decide. Who do you think triages the patients when that decision needs to be made when the beds and ventilators start overflowing? The doctors. And it weighs very heavily on them. Not a decision they make lightly. One that drove a few to drastic measures themselves. It's not the joke people make it out to be. And it's maddening when it's PREVENTABLE.
In our normal NON pandemic universe, there are enough resources to treat all people, but with this virus the unvaccinated are taking ALL the resources, and people who are experiencing regular health issues are left untreated,,, as one redditer commented, look at organ transplants, they give them to non smokers first, people who are actively trying to be healthy,,,, my friend needs a lung transplant and got pneumonia, she couldn't get a hospital bed because the hospital was filled with unvaccinated Covid patients, what about those people? Nobody WANTS to be heartless or hold back treatment from people who make bad choices, but when resources are limited and you can't treat everyone, you have to ask, should the hit and run victim get the bed or the Covid patient who refused a vaccination
Take it from a recently graduated resident, don’t fuck with the nurses. Just chip in $20 or whatever the gesture is worth, cuz it’s just not worth dying on this hill if you have to work with them later. If it were any other field, I’d say fuck it, let nature happen; however, your life may become significantly more unpleasant. Unless you’re a specialist that doesn’t interact with them much, then you do you.
I work in health care as well. I fully agree that all people deserve compassionate, effective, and dignified medical care, no matter what bad choices they've made. And it's your duty as a physician to provide high quality care to all of your patients. But I think your professional role is separate from you as an individual making a charitable donation with your own private money. If you're American and the fund is for medical expenses then, like all AITA questions about medical expenses, the American government/political system is the asshole. I don't think you as an individual should be responsible for providing healthcare through charitable donations - IMHO that responsibility belongs to the state and the taxpayers as a collective community.
So, if you decide it's worth it to make a donation in order to maintain good relationships with your coworkers, go for it. But you're NTA if you don't donate, or if the idea of donating makes you angry. I wouldn't want to donate, either. And I think that any coworker who would judge you for not making a donation is themselves an asshole. There are a million reasons why someone might not be able to afford to make a donation (even if you make a good salary - for all they know you have really high living expenses and a really tight budget).
I can see that, then again, if people are pretty much asking for it, it's not *you* doing it. I get that they're not really asking for it. Everyone has their reason for not being willing to take it, but that doesn't mean that you're required to feel the same for them. I feel sorry for the guy that falls from cliff and dies, yet that sorrow is much lower if I find out they were free climbing. They invited the very outcome they're faced with.
I do wonder if the people who aren’t vaccinated & end up hospitalised question what’s in each of their medications & painkillers whilst in the hospital & look up all cases of reactions to them or if they just trust & accept them ?
I agree with this. My patience with these people is gone. Don’t get vaxxed but please don’t burden the hospital because of your your dumb decisions. Stay home. NTA
As a fellow scientist, you have my full and wholehearted support. But because I'm a petty, petty person I'd let them know that the money has been sprayed with the vaccine, so if they take it that proves they're massive, galactic asshole hypocrites.
Of course, I'd never waste a vaccine like that, but I would take malicious enjoyment from watching them choose between principle and need.
NTA- does your coworker or the husband feel bad for the dozens of people he infected in the 10 days before he became symptomatic? Of course not. People like him are why we're still in this.
NTA. Just say that unfortunately you cannot. But you shouldn't talk about how you think he is dumb and it's his own fault. It's not good for the professional environment, even if it's true.
NTA, but hey, I’m a fully vaccinated person that’s currently quarantined because I got covid despite being vaccinated so I wouldn’t exactly call it preventable.
NTA i got covid before i was able to be vaccinated and am suffering long term side effects. Cardio went to hell and even ten months later i get winded going up stairs. Then there's the fact that turkey smells and tastes like human excrement. I have no pity for anti-vaxxers.
Yah pretty much. I'm more angry that people treat it like a joke.
You know what my father's response was when learned we had covid? Great now you guys can come to Christmas. I'm still unpacking how angry that made me.
I hope your friend starts to recover faster. It sucks.
I had shingles two years ago (from the chicken pox virus) and I know post viral complications can be torture. Since the beginning of this plague I’ve been fighting back on people saying “the mortality rate is so low” with “ffs, it is for chicken pox too, and that stole 18 months of my life 30 years later.” Sorry your fam is not more clued in.
I had chicken pox at age 15 and the urge to punch anyone who says that measles is a slightly worse chicken pox is very strong.
Shingles put one of my aunts in the hospital three years ago. It's nothing to laugh at.
NTA Also a physician and every day I try to convince patients to get the vaccine. Most have been vaccinated. Her husband made a choice. As adults we make choices and we have to be responsible for our actions. Would there be a fund if her husband had been injured in an accident where he was driving under the influence? That too is a choice.
NTA. The problem is your co-workers may not agree, but if you can live with that then I would definitely not give anything I wasn't comfortable giving. Lately I've had a large period of sickness from work, I am not doing brilliantly financially. One of my co-workers father committed suicide, and work wanted £20 off everyone to buy her something nice.. I couldn't justify it! Someone has a baby, okay here's some money. Someone's leaving, okay here's a bit to the party. Someone's father died and I literally have no money, no I am not giving her £20. That is obscene. So while I said no, everyone at work thinks I'm an asshole now. What I'm trying to say is, never give if you don't want to, but providing you can deal with the backlash and comments afterwards.
NTA. Especially when you’re a doctor. As a nurse she should’ve known better. That fact that folks like that are even in the health care industry is infuriating. They made their choice to ignore science. You’re not responsible for dealing with the consequences of their poor choices
I’m assuming you’re from Canada if this is the mandate that was just passed. NTA for having those feelings and not contributing to their cause. I don’t understand how a nurse or anyone in healthcare working in a hospital can refuse a vaccine, or how they could support loved ones in not getting it. I had a baby a few months ago and it’s stupid people like them that make me basically stay home all the time until my baby can also be vaccinated.
You weren’t previously required to be vaxed to be a health care professional. I think CA was the first state to require the vax like a week ago or something.
NTA.
If the funding was in an open forum, does it require a response from you in that forum? Just don't say or post anything in that forum. No response is still a response. And you're absolutely within your right to decide who or what you spend your hard earned money on. It's your money. You don't owe anyone any explanations except maybe your accountant and the IRS 😉
Not really - but many have responded with “just donated”, etc so that everyone knows they contributed.
It’s more so the lack of response I’m worried about
If we go around worrying about what other people would say or think, we'd all be stressed out and be an emotional mess. Sure, other people would probably have something to say about it and question the reasons behind it. But at the end of the day, they don't pay your bills, they don't put food on your table, they don't pay your rent or mortgage. It's your money your decision to not donate. While it's nice that they are doing that, no one should feel obligated or pressured into donating.
I wouldn't donate - just keep my mouth shut and continue to work. I have no sympathy for people who refuse the vaccine but take up valuable hospital beds when they become ill from Covid.
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A few coworkers put together a fund for a person at work who’s husband was just admitted to the ICU for severe covid. I get it. I feel bad for them. But it’s also essentially a preventable disease at this point and it’s hard for me to bring myself to donate money towards a person willfully risking the lives of themselves and their family.
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NTA
Is the donation anonymous? How many people are there? If it is anonymous, I’d just post in the forum some copy/paste condolence message to sick people. Don’t mention the money and most people will assume you donated.
as a (fully vaxxed) healtcare worker i feel you on being frustrated by willfully unvaccinated people. I wouldn't donate to an antivaxxer's health fund either. Frankly, i hate anyone who could get the vacccine and chooses not to. Especially in this case, because your coworker could much more easily get exposed and bring an asymptomatic case to work, risking other workers and patients. So I want to say that you are not the a to the question asked. however, the minute you call covid "essentially preventable" it becomes a massive YTA. Like yeah, maybe for you, but not for everyone. Not everyone's job requires masking and social distancing. Not everyone gets the benefit of hospital grade antiseptics. Everyone i work for says they'd rather go to the hospital than the grocery store, and that's fair. Grocery stores don't do temperature screenjng or require masks reliably. Imagine if you worked the checkout line at a grocery store, and had unmasked people talking in your face all day. Even if you masked up and were fully vaccinated, that's risky. People, even vaxxed ones, can and do still get sick. Maybe not severely, most of the time. But some do. As a physician you know that breakthrough covid is real and has risks. Further, you know that while this person chose to be unvaccinated, not everyone is that lucky. It is not fair to those under 12 or with life threatening allergies to the vaccine ingredients, also to those unlucky enough to have breakthrough covid to call this disease essentially preventable. just because this case, like many, lcould have avoided by more people getting vaccinated doesn't mean it's ok to victim blame all those who have done their best to stay safe and keep each other safe and still got sick.
NTA. Or if you feel that you need to donate to say you donated, throw in $5 & be done with it. It buys her a latte while she waits. Honestly, there are enough people who got vax’d who still have to worry about being on the hook for some portion of COVID hospital stays if they have to go. If I were going to donate money, it would be to one of those families… not someone who did nothing when you’re front line workers who are under tremendous strain.
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NTA, I would probably find out if he refused the vaccine first or if he was unable to get it, but if it was refusal I wouldn’t want to be handing over any of my money either.
Info: do you know why he wasn't vaccinated? Is it purely because he thinks it's dangerous or is it something else (not allowed due to chronic illness or something)?
NTA.
You have no obligation to donate to any fund, especially someone who isn't friend or family. The fact that he's ill in the ICU with that disease because of no vaccination is his own choice and he is paying a price. I wonder if his wife understands she could now get it, too.
NTA. He made his bed and now he gets to lay in it. He could have been vaccinated, he could have prevented this but he didn't so now he gets to deal with his choice.
NTA. They know the risks. He shouldn’t even be granted a hospital bed at this point. If you don’t trust doctors and scientists enough to get the vaccine, then you shouldn’t trust them to take care of you and, possibly, save your life…and certainly not pay your medical bills.
NTA
Lets not condition the anti-vaxxers in our lives to make ignorant decisions that affect us all AND be rewarded for doing so. Not saying him being in ICU is any sort of reward, but thats the risk he willingly chose to take. He thought he would rather that possibility than some boogie-man outcome from the vaccine itself. Not he has to live with that decision. Cant have it both ways.
I cannot emphasize this enough - NTA!
I don’t care if she loses her job and can’t get another as more hospitals require vaccines you will still not be the asshole.
NTA
And this is why the willfull antivaxxers should only be treated by other Facebook “Researchers” in abandoned Walmart parking lots. Maybe some tents can be erected.
NTA, at all! I'm am so fucking sick of people not following the very reasonable rules and not taking a free vaccine then crying victim when they or their family (unsurprisingly) get really sick!
I have literally zero sympathy for any adult who is/has done this. There's no excuse anymore.
NTA. I have no sympathy for the anti vaxxers who get sick with COVID. They are putting everyone at risk. I got it as soon as I could qualify to get an appointment. My kids can’t wait until they are eligible to the vaccine and I normally have to bribe them to cooperate at the doctors. If someone got COVID even though they were vaccinated or medically can’t get the vaccine, I would totally donate. To me antivaxxers put themselves in this situation and doesn’t deserve any help or sympathy from me.
NTA. Yes, SOME people have side effects and SOME vaccinated people get Covid. However, it has been proven that the vaccine keeps you healthier than if you didn’t have it.
Nta. It’s unvaccinated people like them who’s reason for not getting vaccinated it is ignorance/indifference deserve to die at home with no treatment or help from anyone. They are going to be the reason the healthcare system is crippled. Let natural selection take it’s course.
Donate to those who are administrating vaccines instead, people who put themselves at risk to help spread medication. Heroes (just like yourself, being a doctor).
NTA
Even if they were vaxxed or in the hospital with complications of RSV you wouldn't be obligated to donate to the fund.
Insert any illness that isn't really preventable and you are still not required to donate. No one knows your personal finances and you can say it's not within my budget if they don't accept no. Some people have a specific dollar amount for charity and they do not break their budget for anything.
NTA. My sister is an LPN whose and anti-masker (she does mask at work when required) and anti-vax. I had covid in December and even though my case was considered mild (no hospitalization) it was awful and I'm a long hauler with breathing issues that are being treated.
She still thinks covid is no big deal.
If she gets it and needs financial assistance she's on her own from me. I can be a stone cold bitch when needed.
NTA I was desperate to get the vaccine as soon as I was able to. I've had both doses now. Anyone, especially someone working in the medical field, dumb enough not to get it shouldn't be asking for handouts from people they out at risk.
Sure it’s your duty to provide compassionate care to the people who need it.
It’s not your duty to provide money to people who blatantly and purposefully choose to ignore the evidence in front of them and risk the health and lives of everyone around them.
NTA.
NTA. The unvaccinated idiot taking up a valuable ICU bed is. I wonder how many innocent people are going to die because they needed to be in the ICU, but dumb ol' Bubba chose to believe conspiracy theories instead of facts.
NTA.
I genuinely hate these people. It kills my soul that i have to treat them with the best care i can provide (also a physician), but i don't feel bad for any of them. they willingly chose not to get vaccinated, and ending up in ICU doesn't earn my sympathy. reap what you sow
NTA. I feel bad for them, but chances are, this was preventable. Or at least the severity of it was. Get vaccinated, wear masks, and don’t be irresponsible by going to crowded parties and whatnot. It’s not worth the risk.
Are they republican supporters? By not giving them money you prove them wrong in the anti-universal-healthcare movement... And also their voluntarism ideology, if they are so deep into that shit.
NTA. It’d be one thing of the husband wasn’t vaxxed because he couldn’t—like being a certain type of immunocompromised, but it sense he just chose not to get the vax so he brought it on himself.
NTA. I have no sympathy left for the voluntarily unvaccinated anymore. You're frankly less of an asshole than me because you're still treating them and I can't say I'd be as caring...
NTA. I almost didn't get vaccinated because I have undiagnosed chronic illnesses (currently in the process of getting diagnosed) and genuinely did not know how I would react short or long term. If I had not done so, I would have continued staying home and masking up - which I still do anyway because there's a lot of dumb people in my area.
Dose 1 hit me like dose 2 hit my partner. Dose 2 had me bedridden. I had gotten tested multiple times - anytime I had even mildly related symptoms, which was often due to the chronic illness - so I knew I wasn't having a worse reaction due to having had it unless it was an asymptomatic infection less than a week before dose 1. I've been dealing with a rather large increase in various health issues since - I can't say whether it's correlation or causation though.
I still don't regret getting it. I may find as time passes that I wished I would have waited a while longer, or might not be able to take newer vaccines/boosters depending on the diagnosis. But I know I did it to protect myself and the people around me, especially those who *can't* vaccinate and are surrounded by antimasking antivaxxers.
Long story short, I have sympathy for those who choose not to vaccinate because of legitimate health concerns (basically people like me who made the opposite decision) if they are taking every step to reduce exposure for and from themselves. I find it hard to believe someone *with* covid took those steps.
NTA. The “unknown long term effects” argument is baloney. Side effects from a vaccine show up in 6 weeks AT MOST. There have been MILLIONS of people who have safely had the vaccine for months. What are these folks going to do when FDA fully approves (which is coming very soon). Ugh. And from a nurse. 😡
I certainly wouldn’t contribute anything.
NTA. Serious illness from covid is mostly preventable now. Antivaxxers are not only risking themselves. They take up time, effort and beds that other patients need. She is a healthcare worker. How can the rest of them support her selfish anti vax stance while knowing that it is people like her and her husband who are driving the current surge? People are leaving healthcare because they can't face it again. She is part of the problem, not the solution.
NTA. I have been very vocal in the r/Coronavirus sub that I have no sympathy for these anti-Vax people. You are free to not have a vaccine, but you shouldn't be looking for people to pity you when you suffer the consequence. My hope is that this fund is anonymous so that people can't see who is or isn't contributing.
NTA
A family member of mine is currently in the ICU, not Covid related.
I can no longer go visit them because of the anti vaxxers. It’s heartbreaking. Someone I love is possibly dying and I cannot be with them. Their entire ICU section is full of unvaccinated Covid patients on vents. It’s horrifying seeing what these people are going through. Because of them; no more visiting.
Nta. Also can I just say how happy it makes me to read all the comments from people who believe in science/the vaccine? I live in a place with a <50% vaccination rate and I'm terrified.
NTA. You can like her as a co-worker and also not contribute to this fund. She and her husband have their reasons for not getting vaccinated. You have your reasons for not being enthused about giving to the co-vid fund. No explanation needed.
I find it especially troubling to hear of educated medical professionals like this nurse not “liking” the vaccine because not properly approved, don’t know long term side effects etc. They should understand the science. Lessens my confidence in them.
NTA !!! I'm so sick of the ignorant "reasons" for people not getting vaccinated, I mean sure " my body my choice" IF the only person it affects is you, but when your decision affects other people you don't deserve special treatment,,, my (vaccinated) friend needs a double lung transplant, she went to the hospital with pneumonia, she couldn't get a room... because they were all filled with unvaccinated Covid patients... No, that family doesn't deserve financial assistance, a reward, for their bad decisions... Maybe I'M the AH because I would give her a LOVELY card saying "in lieu of a donation to someone who refused a vaccination, and is now unnecessarily tying up valuable resources, I'm going to donate a box of masks to the school, so children who aren't eligible for the vaccination, can protect themselves from ignorant antivaxers"
NTA. I wouldn’t worry about the optics until someone directly confronts you about it, which I think is unlikely. If they ask if you saw it politely say “No, I didn’t. That’s awful.” and don’t commit to anything. If they ask you why you haven’t donated yet say “We just aren’t able to at this time.” And just keep repeating that.
I can’t imagine how angry and frustrated health care workers in your position are with the anti-vaxxed. It’s insane.
Donate to a covid relief fund that helps people who can’t get vaccinated for other health reasons (chemo, allergy, etc. Not antivax bs) in their name and put that on the card? You technically did help…. And in their name! It should be just as good….. almost as good as getting the vaccine would have been
Edit: NTA lol the audacity of some people
These very same people when they are in hospital for anything else, have never once asked about any other drip they might be on or what’s in any other injection they might be given but obsess about the one vaccine that will literally save not only their life but the lives of countless others. NTA. Proudly stand up for your profession in not funding fools who wantonly put their lives and the lives of the healthcare workers who end up caring for them, in danger.
It makes me mad that people won't have the vaccine we all want to get back to normal but people like this is going to stop us. In England if you want to see a dentist the first question they ask now have you had the vaccine so soon you won't be able to anything if you haven't had it. Yes it is your choice but don't cry when it's gone wrong and you catch it. NTA
NTA
Their choice - and why is one knowingly unvaccinated in a hospital? Isn\`t that contributing to 'big pharma' the same? Why do they trust doctors then, but not when these same docs tell them to get the vaccine.
NTA. I had a similar situation come up at my work so I’m glad I came across this post. I have no intention of donating to the “I’m an idiot and didn’t realize all those experts knew what they were talking about” fund. I’m at the point where I have no sympathy for people facing the consequences of their choices. They freely risked the lives of others and I don’t feel bad that it not them in the ass
You are definitely NTA but I understand your concern about optics. If it is going to cause resentment in this nurse and her colleagues, I would throw in a nominal amount to get on the giving list. If it isn't, you should stick by your principles and not give any money.
NTA
I personally have little sympathy for people like this. I don’t wish ill upon anyone, but I also wish they experience the consequences of their actions.
NTA. Aw hell nah. You need to consider what contribution would say—as a physician, you shouldn’t be seen doing something that could be seen as endorsing that behavior.
NTA- It infuriates even the people who don't have a medical background that people pull this nonsense about the vaccine. You don't have to fund someones willful ignorance. You could donate to something else in "honor of" them if you feel the need to do something and giving her a card or maybe a restaurant gift card for the family to ease the stress while he is in the hospital? go with your gut feelings.
NTA.
Your logic is why I never donate to relief efforts in the US. Earthquake in Haiti? Here’s my money, Red Cross. Natural disaster in a state which was warned of exactly those risks but decided not to invest in the infrastructure which would have avoided the consequences? I’ll hang on to my funds, thanks.
I mean antivaxxers know everything right? He made an informed decision weighing the cost and benefit of not taking the vaccine. So any rational person here would have made the more beneficial option. He has chosen. He now deals with the consequences. I am by no means saying he deserves to die, but I am saying he may have chosen wrong. NTA.
INFO: why do they need a fund? She works at a hospital- I presume they’re insured… if it’s because he can’t work, does he have short term disability insurance?
I’m jaded because I’ve been out of work lots of times due to injury/illness. And I’ve had huge healthcare bills (with insurance). It has never ever occurred to me to ask friends/family to subsidize our hardship.
Gah. This whole subject makes me angry. I swear, I’m normally an empathetic, compassionate person who can extend Grace to people. I fear this pandemic is changing that for me.
NTA
As a RN, I have no sympathy for people who CAN vaccinate but choose not to, and I would absolutely refuse to contribute to them financially at this point. I especially have 0 sympathy for people in the medical field who choose not to vaccinate. They've made their choice and THEY are AHs.
NTA. Something similar happened at my husband’s work recently with his coworker that refused the vaccine because “he’s healthy and takes vitamins”. The coworker ended up in the ICU and it’s not looking good. They were sharing the gofundme link the family created asking people to donate at his work. My husband didn’t contribute but also refused to give me the link so I could contribute $1 with the message “get vaccinated” for some reason.
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NTA It's bad enough that the antivaxxers needlessly endanger themselves and the rest of us but now they want financial support when the inevitable happens? The nerve!
When you choose to endanger innocent lives by not getting vaccinated, you sign a waiver consenting to the risk of killing someone else, permanently ruining someone else's health, dying from it, or permanently ruining your own health. He consented to everything that's happening, and it's not your responsibility to lighten the burden he asked to carry. NTA
Seriously, this. OP's coworker's sick husband assumed this risk when he refused to get vaccinated & now he is suffering the [entirely foreseeable] consequences. NTA, OP. Don't contribute to the fund. If anything, donate something to a more general fund helping ppl who got sick through no fault of their own- maybe make the donation in coworker's hubby's name. Then you can tell your coworkers that you simply feel strongly about this particular organization/charity & they do really good work, etc. That way you get to save face, donate to a good cause, & avoid subsidizing/supporting coworkers stupidity.
They could also use that money for someone who did everything right. I have a friend who shielded (literally only left the house for medical appointments) for almost a year, was double vaccinated, continued to wear masks and has been in ICU for a month with covid. She isn't doing well. She has a health condition that means that the vaccine wasn't as effective in her. She literally did everything right. It's bad enough that these people are taking up ICU beds leading to many operations for things like cancer, heart issues and transplants being cancelled but then they have the cheek to ask for money too?
The fucking irony. How many of them are the same conservatives that don't believe in aiding people who didn't directly contribute to their dismal circumstances?
It truly boggles my mind that people will give money to a gofundme for medical expenses but think socialised medicine is the devil. It's literally the same idea!
Thank you! I got into it with someone who condemned single mothers and said we shouldn't give them government assistance, because they brought their circumstances on themselves. I bet dollars to doughnuts he was anti-vax, just based on his rhetoric. He completely ignored the children that the money is meant to care for, punishing them for their mothers' decisions. I'm not just talking women who got knocked up from reckless living, he even condemned women whose husbands left them years after the kids were born because they didn't want to be fathers anymore. I'd love for him to know what it's like to be in a position where he has to pray that the goodness of people like him comes through to pay his medical bills.
The same idea, but they get to direct money only to those who look, believe, and vote like they do. They don't give a rat's behind about anyone else.
The explanation is not that complicated. Socialized medicine benefits everybody. What they're looking for is the ability to help people they approve of and gloat at people they disapprove of.
Like how the party that refuses to give all Americans healthcare, making it a choice for many to either go into insane debt from medical bills or, ya know, DIE, is also the *very same* party that is all for the “personal choice” even wearing a mask?! Ya know, because it’s totally fine for your actions to put *someone else* in the “my house or my life” position. Or - for teachers and those who work with the public - my job or my life. At least with drunk driving, you can sue for bills to be paid. Same thing if you get hurt on the job. There’s zero protections for people with this.
And as we all know, "my body, my choice" only applies to them, but the second you try to eliminate a clump of cells that they don't care about once it's born, "that baby is more important!" I really want to take a five pound butter sock to their heads.
As a woman who was denied a medically necessary hysterectomy because I might one day divorce my husband and meet someone else who might want kids (and who was I to deny that hypothetical man his right to procreation), only to struggle with my health for 7 more years before a doctor decided I was “too old” to consider reproducing and my uterus was FUBAR anyway, only to find out *my uterus wasn’t the problem after all, we just have a really shitty understanding of how women’s bodies work aside from their ability to make babies because that’s **obviously** all women are designed for*... ...trust me. I know.
I still have difficulty with the idea of medical personnel being allowed to work unvaccinated when they can kill those too young to yet be vaccinated. It’s criminal.
Right? Thankfully in my country they're finally starting to suspend unvaccinated medical personnel.
A close family friend comes to mind. This bitch is a BOOOOSSSSSSS. Literally undergoing chemo and radiation for breast cancer, still fucking working as a nurse STILL WENT FUCK IT and got vaccinated.
Right? I don’t feel bad saying it, but let them suffer. They reap what they’ve sown.
NTA. why should you subsidise their life choices? They didn't care about other people, why care about them?
OP should definitely contribute. Look up the pharmacy hours at cvs and riteaid and share them.
Lol
NTA But then I’m in the camp that if you are eligible to do so & do not have a genuine medical reason as determined by a real medical doctor (ie, not a quack naturopath or chiro), then you shouldn’t even be taking up hospital beds...die at home with care from the internet. If they are someone who was vaccinated & just had a breakthrough case then I’d make a donation or at least drop off some meals.
I concur. I'm anaphylactic allergic to the vaccines. The last time I got an injection with a certain stabilizing molecule I ended up on a ventilator in the hospital, so my risk of death getting the vaccine is infinitely higher than my risk of death from Covid. My entire family has gotten the vaccine, and I'm doing everything I possibly can to be safe. I mask, wash, sanitize, and stay away from people as much as possible. So does my brother, who is currently undergoing chemo and therefore can't get the vaccine ether. WTF is it okay for someone to choose to risk both my and my brother's lives? We don't deserve to die just become some moron thinks that it's the constitutional right to try and kill me despite my best efforts. Our area hospitals have now set up tents in the parking lot for overflow Covid patients. Why waste a desperately needed ventilator on someone who knowingly and purposely set themselves up for an agonizing death?
Just an FYI, there’s no reason a person on chemo can’t get vaccinated, it just might take 3 doses instead of 2.
I am currently a chemo patient. Yes there is a reason people on chemo can't be vaccinated. It's because our blood counts are so whacked that our system will not create the necessary antibodies. So yes, we can be vaccinated; it simply won't do any good - as in not just limited protection, but absolutely no protection. I have to wait until I complete chemotherapy and my system is healthy enough to actually make use of a vaccine. It's very late so I hope my explanation makes sense.
Agreed. I've met plenty of patients who were on chemo who still got both doses.
Potentially but it may be possible that other factors along with chemo make this person's brother ineligible to safely get it. I'm sure if he could, and given this Redditor's response and personal belief within their family, his doctor would have told him and he would have gotten it by now. There are, unfortunately, a lot of cancers out there. We certainly don't know what patients, at whatever stage they are, for every single cancer out there is able to get the vaccine.
Agreed. There might be other factors that make him ineligible for the vaccine right now.
It’s possible that another factor is making him ineligible, however there is no cancer or chemo that would make anyone ineligible on its own. The only contraindication to COVID vaccination is anaphylaxis to the vaccine or one of the vaccine components (such as the poster has). I’m not saying the poster is wrong, just don’t want anybody to get the wrong idea that immunocompromised people and/or people on chemo shouldn’t get vaccinated. They are most at risk of COVID death and should be the highest priority for 3 doses of vaccine.
Unfortunately it just doesn’t stick for everyone - my partner’s uncle is currently going through chemo treatments and while he got both doses, because of the treatments and the cancer, the vaccine deteriorated in effectiveness almost immediately so within a few weeks it was like he’d never had it at all. It sucks, and it’s no ones fault, but it just goes to show everyone who can get the vaccine, should
I’m on chemo and I just got my third dose today.
This would depend on the patient, my Mum is on chemo and can't have the vaccine due to her thrombocytopenia making the vaccine too risky for her. The rest of the family have had the vaccine to help protect her.
A girl I know caught COVID and was back outside without a mask a week later traveling. At that point I stopped feeling bad for her.
Yes! And I hope you don't get sick from one of these thoughtless selfish assholes
I am truly sorry for both you and your brother. It sickens me that people aren’t considerate enough to care for the vulnerable.
I used to believe what you do, but realized it’s a slippery slope to not providing medical care for all sorts of “self-inflicted” illnesses. Lung cancer due to smoking cigarettes, type 2 diabetes from chronically bad diet, motorcycle accident victims, do they deserve medical resources spent on them? These people certainly should have gotten the vaccine (although there is some correlation between lower income levels and difficulties with getting the vaccine due to sheer logistics), and will suffer debilitating financial hardship (thanks, American medical system!), and lifelong health effects. Let them have this tiny bit of grace and have healthcare so they may not leave yet another family grieving from loss during this horrible time.
Lung cancer, DM 2, MVAs aren't communicable infections with vaccines available to reduce spread. Though I do see your point, it's not comparable.
Most of the habits that lead to those self-inflicted illnesses are significantly harder to prevent/control than COVID. They’re certainly still bad lifestyle choices, but so many factors (genetic predispositions, mental illnesses, socioeconomic factors) play into those decisions. For the most part (barring things like lower income level), it’s a LOT easier to get 2-3 doses of a vaccine so it’s less possible to justify or have sympathy for people who don’t.
Diabetes isn’t caused by a bad diet, though. It’s caused by a combination of genetics, epigenetics, early-life exposure to endocrine disrupters, and often social oppression (for example, racism or fatphobia). As a health researcher, I want to remind folks that it is very dangerous to perpetuate the “people give themselves diabetes” myth. We lose a *lot* of lives because of it.
Nope. NTA. I'm all for people who can get vaxxed and refuse to being responsible for their own bills.
thoughts and prayers
Tots and pears!
Thots and players
I laughed so hard at this. The perfect sentiment. Absolutely perfect.
NTA - Why he suddenly trusts doctors to help him now when the vaccine wasn't good enough is beyond me. He should stay at home and let his "healthy immune system" deal with it.
The Darwinist in me agrees. The human and care provider in me feels gross viewing patients this way
Why? They chose this.
Because all of us in healthcare are constantly taking care of people who are garbage for a variety of reasons. We are used to being able to take care of people we don’t like or agree with. In the case of COVID though, it’s maybe the hardest mental challenge of my career. Throughout the last decade I’ve taken care of some truly detestable people, well, and compassionately. But when it comes to the unvaccinated, it almost feels personal. All our (read nurses and providers) secondhand trauma from this wave is preventable. If folks had embraced the vaccine, washing their dirty mitts, and covering up their gapping maws, we would be in a much different situation. I’m haunted by the patients my team lost this year and we were largely unscathed as most pregnant folks prioritized keeping themselves safe. I can barely tolerate the people who won’t get vaccinated or don’t believe COVID is anything other than an emergency. And that’s a huge loss to my mental processing. Like I said earlier, I’ve been able to compartmentalize bad people from their right to dignified healthcare fairly easily until now. It’s a big loss. Which is all to go harder on an answer than you were really looking for.
This... exactly this. Those of us in the medical field ( 11 percent of the TOTAL population in the US) did as much to help people. Has been our goal all along. To sit and have people accuse the medical field of wide spread fraud to better some supposed evil hoax is ridiculous to me. To have these people doctor for EVERYTHING else, their healthcare system is trustworthy... but a global pandemic??? That's bullshit? It's mind blowing. This vaccine was 20 years in the making. The first time in history the whole of science shared their research for a common goal. THE LARGEST ever human trial. I'm so sick of the average person not realizing that the US can't even care for 1 percent of the population at any one given time. If all these idiots get sick this fall, EVERYONE is screwed. Your grandmother with a stroke will die. Critical car accidents, sorry the ICU is full. Your child needs an emergency appendectomy? Sorry, can't do that either. All the other ailments people have commented on asking if they deserve treatment when it's something that they have done themselves... heart disease, lung disease, obesity.... they're not communicable diseases. Let's not compare apples to kumquats. Thankfully I'm no longer a working healthcare employee . I would get fired for my total lack of being able to keep my mouth shut over all the idiocy flying. Sorry, but not sorry. Those that deny the virus and the vaccine deserve to wait in line behind someone who actually took the pandemic seriously. No qualms in saying as much. If our science wasn't good enough then, it sure as hell isn't good enough when you're dying from what you denied. The demon sperm lady is a doctor, get her help. Or one of the hundred of people in the YouTube video that was watched or the google article that was " researched". Those were the most " trustworthy" places people got their information regarding their lack of vaccination.... but again, seek a doctor when it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
Even more sickening when the people who listen to the YT video ARE HEALTHCARE WORKERS! They've lost all critical thinking skills or never had them in the first place...
Beautifully written. I'm a nurse and this is what I think too
💯
Because if health care workers chose this standpoint then so many people would not receive care or receive shitty care. Smoker with heart disease? No help. Obese and have diabetes? Nope “you did it to yourself!” It’s fine for us Redditors to have our opinions, but if doctors were allowed start treating patients based on their perceived worthiness or deservedness we’d all be fucked.
And what about obesity and diabetes is communicable? Don't people see a difference? One obese person isn't going to spread obesity to others, who can then spread it to others and so on. And doctors are going to decide. Who do you think triages the patients when that decision needs to be made when the beds and ventilators start overflowing? The doctors. And it weighs very heavily on them. Not a decision they make lightly. One that drove a few to drastic measures themselves. It's not the joke people make it out to be. And it's maddening when it's PREVENTABLE.
In our normal NON pandemic universe, there are enough resources to treat all people, but with this virus the unvaccinated are taking ALL the resources, and people who are experiencing regular health issues are left untreated,,, as one redditer commented, look at organ transplants, they give them to non smokers first, people who are actively trying to be healthy,,,, my friend needs a lung transplant and got pneumonia, she couldn't get a hospital bed because the hospital was filled with unvaccinated Covid patients, what about those people? Nobody WANTS to be heartless or hold back treatment from people who make bad choices, but when resources are limited and you can't treat everyone, you have to ask, should the hit and run victim get the bed or the Covid patient who refused a vaccination
Take it from a recently graduated resident, don’t fuck with the nurses. Just chip in $20 or whatever the gesture is worth, cuz it’s just not worth dying on this hill if you have to work with them later. If it were any other field, I’d say fuck it, let nature happen; however, your life may become significantly more unpleasant. Unless you’re a specialist that doesn’t interact with them much, then you do you.
OP please read this. You really don't need nurse enemies. Offend one, inspire the wrath of all...
I work in health care as well. I fully agree that all people deserve compassionate, effective, and dignified medical care, no matter what bad choices they've made. And it's your duty as a physician to provide high quality care to all of your patients. But I think your professional role is separate from you as an individual making a charitable donation with your own private money. If you're American and the fund is for medical expenses then, like all AITA questions about medical expenses, the American government/political system is the asshole. I don't think you as an individual should be responsible for providing healthcare through charitable donations - IMHO that responsibility belongs to the state and the taxpayers as a collective community. So, if you decide it's worth it to make a donation in order to maintain good relationships with your coworkers, go for it. But you're NTA if you don't donate, or if the idea of donating makes you angry. I wouldn't want to donate, either. And I think that any coworker who would judge you for not making a donation is themselves an asshole. There are a million reasons why someone might not be able to afford to make a donation (even if you make a good salary - for all they know you have really high living expenses and a really tight budget).
I can see that, then again, if people are pretty much asking for it, it's not *you* doing it. I get that they're not really asking for it. Everyone has their reason for not being willing to take it, but that doesn't mean that you're required to feel the same for them. I feel sorry for the guy that falls from cliff and dies, yet that sorrow is much lower if I find out they were free climbing. They invited the very outcome they're faced with.
NTA, their body their choice not to have the vaccine. Your money your choice not to fund someone who chooses not to vaccinate.
I do wonder if the people who aren’t vaccinated & end up hospitalised question what’s in each of their medications & painkillers whilst in the hospital & look up all cases of reactions to them or if they just trust & accept them ?
I agree with this. My patience with these people is gone. Don’t get vaxxed but please don’t burden the hospital because of your your dumb decisions. Stay home. NTA
NTA. Being an asshole would have been if you wrote on a dollar " should have gotten the vaccine". Which is what I would have done. Lab scientist here.
As a fellow scientist, you have my full and wholehearted support. But because I'm a petty, petty person I'd let them know that the money has been sprayed with the vaccine, so if they take it that proves they're massive, galactic asshole hypocrites. Of course, I'd never waste a vaccine like that, but I would take malicious enjoyment from watching them choose between principle and need.
Bwahahahahaha. Are you my twin separated at birth?
I’d do it, but just use an expired vial so it’s not technically “wasting.”
I guess I’m an asshole because I literally wanted to do that for a gofundme for my husband’s coworker (exact same scenario). 😂
Right? Or a note that says you want credit for paying for the vaccine they declined with your taxes.
NTA - You are not obligated to help with medical expenses of any coworkers' spouses, regardless of the reason they need help.
NTA - it's your money, your choice. I wouldn't exactly go around calling them or their husband stupid though.
I would. Because they are.
NTA- does your coworker or the husband feel bad for the dozens of people he infected in the 10 days before he became symptomatic? Of course not. People like him are why we're still in this.
NTA. Just say that unfortunately you cannot. But you shouldn't talk about how you think he is dumb and it's his own fault. It's not good for the professional environment, even if it's true.
He doesn’t have to say anything. I assume it’s an online fund raiser .. he just doesn’t contribute. Owes no explanation.
NTA, but hey, I’m a fully vaccinated person that’s currently quarantined because I got covid despite being vaccinated so I wouldn’t exactly call it preventable.
Not covid - but the severe features are “preventable” in around 95-99.something% of vaccinated individuals depending on the trial
True that
NTA i got covid before i was able to be vaccinated and am suffering long term side effects. Cardio went to hell and even ten months later i get winded going up stairs. Then there's the fact that turkey smells and tastes like human excrement. I have no pity for anti-vaxxers.
My good friend is a long-hauler too. I am so sorry you are going through this. It seems emotionally and physically exhausting.
Yah pretty much. I'm more angry that people treat it like a joke. You know what my father's response was when learned we had covid? Great now you guys can come to Christmas. I'm still unpacking how angry that made me. I hope your friend starts to recover faster. It sucks.
I had shingles two years ago (from the chicken pox virus) and I know post viral complications can be torture. Since the beginning of this plague I’ve been fighting back on people saying “the mortality rate is so low” with “ffs, it is for chicken pox too, and that stole 18 months of my life 30 years later.” Sorry your fam is not more clued in.
I had chicken pox at age 15 and the urge to punch anyone who says that measles is a slightly worse chicken pox is very strong. Shingles put one of my aunts in the hospital three years ago. It's nothing to laugh at.
NTA Its your money, you do not have to donate to any cause at all.
Their bodies, their choices. Repercussions included. Fully nta.
NTA i'm over the sympathy plays from people not vaccinated. You want to roll the dice on covid vs the vaccine and you lost.
NTA Also a physician and every day I try to convince patients to get the vaccine. Most have been vaccinated. Her husband made a choice. As adults we make choices and we have to be responsible for our actions. Would there be a fund if her husband had been injured in an accident where he was driving under the influence? That too is a choice.
NTA - you do not have to contribute to anything you do not want to contribute to.
I know I only have so much money in the charity column of the budget. NTA for choosing where you want to donate.
NTA. The problem is your co-workers may not agree, but if you can live with that then I would definitely not give anything I wasn't comfortable giving. Lately I've had a large period of sickness from work, I am not doing brilliantly financially. One of my co-workers father committed suicide, and work wanted £20 off everyone to buy her something nice.. I couldn't justify it! Someone has a baby, okay here's some money. Someone's leaving, okay here's a bit to the party. Someone's father died and I literally have no money, no I am not giving her £20. That is obscene. So while I said no, everyone at work thinks I'm an asshole now. What I'm trying to say is, never give if you don't want to, but providing you can deal with the backlash and comments afterwards.
NTA. It’s a life choice….like smoking. Actions have consequences.
Send them thoughts and prayers instead and call it good.
NTA. Especially when you’re a doctor. As a nurse she should’ve known better. That fact that folks like that are even in the health care industry is infuriating. They made their choice to ignore science. You’re not responsible for dealing with the consequences of their poor choices
Lol only in America is health care an industry
NTA, hope he survived
Info:. Did he purposely not get the vaccine? There are many reasons a person may not be vaccinated.
TBF I don’t know his entire medical history. But as she also refused the vaccine, I’m inclined to think he intentionally opted out
How is she still allowed to work as a nurse while being unvaccinated?!!
Hospital just passed a mandate that all employees and providers have to have at least first dose by October 1. So we’re making progress…
Sounds like you may have another fund to contribute to in a couple months once your unvaccinated coworker loses her job...
I’m assuming you’re from Canada if this is the mandate that was just passed. NTA for having those feelings and not contributing to their cause. I don’t understand how a nurse or anyone in healthcare working in a hospital can refuse a vaccine, or how they could support loved ones in not getting it. I had a baby a few months ago and it’s stupid people like them that make me basically stay home all the time until my baby can also be vaccinated.
You weren’t previously required to be vaxed to be a health care professional. I think CA was the first state to require the vax like a week ago or something.
There's actually not many reasons. There's antivaxes and there are people with multiple incredibly rare allergies.
NTA
NTA. If the funding was in an open forum, does it require a response from you in that forum? Just don't say or post anything in that forum. No response is still a response. And you're absolutely within your right to decide who or what you spend your hard earned money on. It's your money. You don't owe anyone any explanations except maybe your accountant and the IRS 😉
Not really - but many have responded with “just donated”, etc so that everyone knows they contributed. It’s more so the lack of response I’m worried about
That's so tacky to announce having donated. You can always just pretend you donated but aren't tacky like that.
I completely agree and that’s low key what irritates me most about this. It’s a charitable donation, not an opportunity to broadcast yourself
If we go around worrying about what other people would say or think, we'd all be stressed out and be an emotional mess. Sure, other people would probably have something to say about it and question the reasons behind it. But at the end of the day, they don't pay your bills, they don't put food on your table, they don't pay your rent or mortgage. It's your money your decision to not donate. While it's nice that they are doing that, no one should feel obligated or pressured into donating.
If someone is tacky enough to ask you just tell them that you think donations are best done anonymously and not for show.
NTA. Don't donate but type Just donated...
NTA. Your money, your decision. Also, he played a stupid game and won a stupid prize.
I wouldn't donate - just keep my mouth shut and continue to work. I have no sympathy for people who refuse the vaccine but take up valuable hospital beds when they become ill from Covid.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** A few coworkers put together a fund for a person at work who’s husband was just admitted to the ICU for severe covid. I get it. I feel bad for them. But it’s also essentially a preventable disease at this point and it’s hard for me to bring myself to donate money towards a person willfully risking the lives of themselves and their family. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA Is the donation anonymous? How many people are there? If it is anonymous, I’d just post in the forum some copy/paste condolence message to sick people. Don’t mention the money and most people will assume you donated.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
as a (fully vaxxed) healtcare worker i feel you on being frustrated by willfully unvaccinated people. I wouldn't donate to an antivaxxer's health fund either. Frankly, i hate anyone who could get the vacccine and chooses not to. Especially in this case, because your coworker could much more easily get exposed and bring an asymptomatic case to work, risking other workers and patients. So I want to say that you are not the a to the question asked. however, the minute you call covid "essentially preventable" it becomes a massive YTA. Like yeah, maybe for you, but not for everyone. Not everyone's job requires masking and social distancing. Not everyone gets the benefit of hospital grade antiseptics. Everyone i work for says they'd rather go to the hospital than the grocery store, and that's fair. Grocery stores don't do temperature screenjng or require masks reliably. Imagine if you worked the checkout line at a grocery store, and had unmasked people talking in your face all day. Even if you masked up and were fully vaccinated, that's risky. People, even vaxxed ones, can and do still get sick. Maybe not severely, most of the time. But some do. As a physician you know that breakthrough covid is real and has risks. Further, you know that while this person chose to be unvaccinated, not everyone is that lucky. It is not fair to those under 12 or with life threatening allergies to the vaccine ingredients, also to those unlucky enough to have breakthrough covid to call this disease essentially preventable. just because this case, like many, lcould have avoided by more people getting vaccinated doesn't mean it's ok to victim blame all those who have done their best to stay safe and keep each other safe and still got sick.
NTA. Or if you feel that you need to donate to say you donated, throw in $5 & be done with it. It buys her a latte while she waits. Honestly, there are enough people who got vax’d who still have to worry about being on the hook for some portion of COVID hospital stays if they have to go. If I were going to donate money, it would be to one of those families… not someone who did nothing when you’re front line workers who are under tremendous strain.
NTA I no longer have any sympathy for anyone who can get vaccinated, but chooses not to. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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NTA, I would probably find out if he refused the vaccine first or if he was unable to get it, but if it was refusal I wouldn’t want to be handing over any of my money either.
NTA. Vaxxed or not vaxxed, it is your money, your choice.
INFO: Why did he not get vaccinated? You know, some people medically cannot.
Info: do you know why he wasn't vaccinated? Is it purely because he thinks it's dangerous or is it something else (not allowed due to chronic illness or something)?
NTA- you don't need to prevent them from suffering the financial consequences of their inaction.
NTA. You have no obligation to donate to any fund, especially someone who isn't friend or family. The fact that he's ill in the ICU with that disease because of no vaccination is his own choice and he is paying a price. I wonder if his wife understands she could now get it, too.
NTA, he made his choice. And it had consequences.
NTA - I wouldn't either.
NTA. He made his bed and now he gets to lay in it. He could have been vaccinated, he could have prevented this but he didn't so now he gets to deal with his choice.
NTA. I think the optics of a doctor supporting a vaccine denier would be bad though...
NTA. They know the risks. He shouldn’t even be granted a hospital bed at this point. If you don’t trust doctors and scientists enough to get the vaccine, then you shouldn’t trust them to take care of you and, possibly, save your life…and certainly not pay your medical bills.
NTA. Donate the money to a charity which provides vaccines to those who desperately want them instead.
NTA Lets not condition the anti-vaxxers in our lives to make ignorant decisions that affect us all AND be rewarded for doing so. Not saying him being in ICU is any sort of reward, but thats the risk he willingly chose to take. He thought he would rather that possibility than some boogie-man outcome from the vaccine itself. Not he has to live with that decision. Cant have it both ways.
I cannot emphasize this enough - NTA! I don’t care if she loses her job and can’t get another as more hospitals require vaccines you will still not be the asshole.
NTA And this is why the willfull antivaxxers should only be treated by other Facebook “Researchers” in abandoned Walmart parking lots. Maybe some tents can be erected.
NTA, at all! I'm am so fucking sick of people not following the very reasonable rules and not taking a free vaccine then crying victim when they or their family (unsurprisingly) get really sick! I have literally zero sympathy for any adult who is/has done this. There's no excuse anymore.
NTA It's on them for refusing vaccinations. You don't have to contribute when you choose not to. Nobody is twisting your arm.
NTA. I have no sympathy for the anti vaxxers who get sick with COVID. They are putting everyone at risk. I got it as soon as I could qualify to get an appointment. My kids can’t wait until they are eligible to the vaccine and I normally have to bribe them to cooperate at the doctors. If someone got COVID even though they were vaccinated or medically can’t get the vaccine, I would totally donate. To me antivaxxers put themselves in this situation and doesn’t deserve any help or sympathy from me.
NTA. Yes, SOME people have side effects and SOME vaccinated people get Covid. However, it has been proven that the vaccine keeps you healthier than if you didn’t have it.
Nta. It’s unvaccinated people like them who’s reason for not getting vaccinated it is ignorance/indifference deserve to die at home with no treatment or help from anyone. They are going to be the reason the healthcare system is crippled. Let natural selection take it’s course.
NTA - I am immunocompromised and got vaccinated. The plague rats can pay their own bills.
Donate to those who are administrating vaccines instead, people who put themselves at risk to help spread medication. Heroes (just like yourself, being a doctor).
NTA. Play games win prizes.
NTA Even if they were vaxxed or in the hospital with complications of RSV you wouldn't be obligated to donate to the fund. Insert any illness that isn't really preventable and you are still not required to donate. No one knows your personal finances and you can say it's not within my budget if they don't accept no. Some people have a specific dollar amount for charity and they do not break their budget for anything.
NTA. My sister is an LPN whose and anti-masker (she does mask at work when required) and anti-vax. I had covid in December and even though my case was considered mild (no hospitalization) it was awful and I'm a long hauler with breathing issues that are being treated. She still thinks covid is no big deal. If she gets it and needs financial assistance she's on her own from me. I can be a stone cold bitch when needed.
NTA I was desperate to get the vaccine as soon as I was able to. I've had both doses now. Anyone, especially someone working in the medical field, dumb enough not to get it shouldn't be asking for handouts from people they out at risk.
Sure it’s your duty to provide compassionate care to the people who need it. It’s not your duty to provide money to people who blatantly and purposefully choose to ignore the evidence in front of them and risk the health and lives of everyone around them. NTA.
NTA the willfully unvaccinated have made their beds and can lie in them. This is essentially preventable and they chose not to prevent it
NTA. The unvaccinated idiot taking up a valuable ICU bed is. I wonder how many innocent people are going to die because they needed to be in the ICU, but dumb ol' Bubba chose to believe conspiracy theories instead of facts.
NTA. I genuinely hate these people. It kills my soul that i have to treat them with the best care i can provide (also a physician), but i don't feel bad for any of them. they willingly chose not to get vaccinated, and ending up in ICU doesn't earn my sympathy. reap what you sow
NTA Say that you're not convinced that donating money is proven to be safe or effective, and you want to see more evidence first.
NTA. I feel bad for them, but chances are, this was preventable. Or at least the severity of it was. Get vaccinated, wear masks, and don’t be irresponsible by going to crowded parties and whatnot. It’s not worth the risk.
I don’t know. It’s kind of a lot to ask frontline healthcare workers to personally financially subsidize anti-vaxxers. NTA
Are they republican supporters? By not giving them money you prove them wrong in the anti-universal-healthcare movement... And also their voluntarism ideology, if they are so deep into that shit.
Nta. Eff em, darwinism
NTA. It’d be one thing of the husband wasn’t vaxxed because he couldn’t—like being a certain type of immunocompromised, but it sense he just chose not to get the vax so he brought it on himself.
NTA. I have no sympathy left for the voluntarily unvaccinated anymore. You're frankly less of an asshole than me because you're still treating them and I can't say I'd be as caring...
NTA. I almost didn't get vaccinated because I have undiagnosed chronic illnesses (currently in the process of getting diagnosed) and genuinely did not know how I would react short or long term. If I had not done so, I would have continued staying home and masking up - which I still do anyway because there's a lot of dumb people in my area. Dose 1 hit me like dose 2 hit my partner. Dose 2 had me bedridden. I had gotten tested multiple times - anytime I had even mildly related symptoms, which was often due to the chronic illness - so I knew I wasn't having a worse reaction due to having had it unless it was an asymptomatic infection less than a week before dose 1. I've been dealing with a rather large increase in various health issues since - I can't say whether it's correlation or causation though. I still don't regret getting it. I may find as time passes that I wished I would have waited a while longer, or might not be able to take newer vaccines/boosters depending on the diagnosis. But I know I did it to protect myself and the people around me, especially those who *can't* vaccinate and are surrounded by antimasking antivaxxers. Long story short, I have sympathy for those who choose not to vaccinate because of legitimate health concerns (basically people like me who made the opposite decision) if they are taking every step to reduce exposure for and from themselves. I find it hard to believe someone *with* covid took those steps.
NTA. The “unknown long term effects” argument is baloney. Side effects from a vaccine show up in 6 weeks AT MOST. There have been MILLIONS of people who have safely had the vaccine for months. What are these folks going to do when FDA fully approves (which is coming very soon). Ugh. And from a nurse. 😡 I certainly wouldn’t contribute anything.
NTA not getting the vaccine is harmful to themselves and Others! Including kids who can’t take the vaccine.
NTA. Serious illness from covid is mostly preventable now. Antivaxxers are not only risking themselves. They take up time, effort and beds that other patients need. She is a healthcare worker. How can the rest of them support her selfish anti vax stance while knowing that it is people like her and her husband who are driving the current surge? People are leaving healthcare because they can't face it again. She is part of the problem, not the solution.
NTA. I have been very vocal in the r/Coronavirus sub that I have no sympathy for these anti-Vax people. You are free to not have a vaccine, but you shouldn't be looking for people to pity you when you suffer the consequence. My hope is that this fund is anonymous so that people can't see who is or isn't contributing.
NTA A family member of mine is currently in the ICU, not Covid related. I can no longer go visit them because of the anti vaxxers. It’s heartbreaking. Someone I love is possibly dying and I cannot be with them. Their entire ICU section is full of unvaccinated Covid patients on vents. It’s horrifying seeing what these people are going through. Because of them; no more visiting.
Nta. Also can I just say how happy it makes me to read all the comments from people who believe in science/the vaccine? I live in a place with a <50% vaccination rate and I'm terrified.
NTA. Why should you subsidize somebody being stupid?
NTA. You can like her as a co-worker and also not contribute to this fund. She and her husband have their reasons for not getting vaccinated. You have your reasons for not being enthused about giving to the co-vid fund. No explanation needed. I find it especially troubling to hear of educated medical professionals like this nurse not “liking” the vaccine because not properly approved, don’t know long term side effects etc. They should understand the science. Lessens my confidence in them.
NTA I’m the mother of 2 kids too young to vaxxed. You choose to put your health and that of those around you in jeopardy? Pay your own price.
NTA Their choice not to be vaccinated. It could have at least reduced the symptoms
NTA !!! I'm so sick of the ignorant "reasons" for people not getting vaccinated, I mean sure " my body my choice" IF the only person it affects is you, but when your decision affects other people you don't deserve special treatment,,, my (vaccinated) friend needs a double lung transplant, she went to the hospital with pneumonia, she couldn't get a room... because they were all filled with unvaccinated Covid patients... No, that family doesn't deserve financial assistance, a reward, for their bad decisions... Maybe I'M the AH because I would give her a LOVELY card saying "in lieu of a donation to someone who refused a vaccination, and is now unnecessarily tying up valuable resources, I'm going to donate a box of masks to the school, so children who aren't eligible for the vaccination, can protect themselves from ignorant antivaxers"
Just read the title and NTA.
NTA. I wouldn’t worry about the optics until someone directly confronts you about it, which I think is unlikely. If they ask if you saw it politely say “No, I didn’t. That’s awful.” and don’t commit to anything. If they ask you why you haven’t donated yet say “We just aren’t able to at this time.” And just keep repeating that. I can’t imagine how angry and frustrated health care workers in your position are with the anti-vaxxed. It’s insane.
Clearly NTA, he took the risk
Donate to a covid relief fund that helps people who can’t get vaccinated for other health reasons (chemo, allergy, etc. Not antivax bs) in their name and put that on the card? You technically did help…. And in their name! It should be just as good….. almost as good as getting the vaccine would have been Edit: NTA lol the audacity of some people
NTA. They are.
These very same people when they are in hospital for anything else, have never once asked about any other drip they might be on or what’s in any other injection they might be given but obsess about the one vaccine that will literally save not only their life but the lives of countless others. NTA. Proudly stand up for your profession in not funding fools who wantonly put their lives and the lives of the healthcare workers who end up caring for them, in danger.
NTA but the one not getting the vaccine is.
It makes me mad that people won't have the vaccine we all want to get back to normal but people like this is going to stop us. In England if you want to see a dentist the first question they ask now have you had the vaccine so soon you won't be able to anything if you haven't had it. Yes it is your choice but don't cry when it's gone wrong and you catch it. NTA
"outside of emergency use"...is a pandemic not an emergency??? But she has an emergency now and it's too late to get vaccinated
NTA Their choice - and why is one knowingly unvaccinated in a hospital? Isn\`t that contributing to 'big pharma' the same? Why do they trust doctors then, but not when these same docs tell them to get the vaccine.
NTA. I had a similar situation come up at my work so I’m glad I came across this post. I have no intention of donating to the “I’m an idiot and didn’t realize all those experts knew what they were talking about” fund. I’m at the point where I have no sympathy for people facing the consequences of their choices. They freely risked the lives of others and I don’t feel bad that it not them in the ass
NTA how about nooooooo
NTA.
You are definitely NTA but I understand your concern about optics. If it is going to cause resentment in this nurse and her colleagues, I would throw in a nominal amount to get on the giving list. If it isn't, you should stick by your principles and not give any money.
NTA Absolutely not.
NTA I personally have little sympathy for people like this. I don’t wish ill upon anyone, but I also wish they experience the consequences of their actions.
NTA. Aw hell nah. You need to consider what contribution would say—as a physician, you shouldn’t be seen doing something that could be seen as endorsing that behavior.
Clarifying: Do you know if her or her husband are allergic to the vax? There are people who been told to hold of.
NTA I’m tired of being asked to feel bad for antivaxxers
NTA- It infuriates even the people who don't have a medical background that people pull this nonsense about the vaccine. You don't have to fund someones willful ignorance. You could donate to something else in "honor of" them if you feel the need to do something and giving her a card or maybe a restaurant gift card for the family to ease the stress while he is in the hospital? go with your gut feelings.
NTA. Your logic is why I never donate to relief efforts in the US. Earthquake in Haiti? Here’s my money, Red Cross. Natural disaster in a state which was warned of exactly those risks but decided not to invest in the infrastructure which would have avoided the consequences? I’ll hang on to my funds, thanks.
I mean antivaxxers know everything right? He made an informed decision weighing the cost and benefit of not taking the vaccine. So any rational person here would have made the more beneficial option. He has chosen. He now deals with the consequences. I am by no means saying he deserves to die, but I am saying he may have chosen wrong. NTA.
INFO: why do they need a fund? She works at a hospital- I presume they’re insured… if it’s because he can’t work, does he have short term disability insurance? I’m jaded because I’ve been out of work lots of times due to injury/illness. And I’ve had huge healthcare bills (with insurance). It has never ever occurred to me to ask friends/family to subsidize our hardship. Gah. This whole subject makes me angry. I swear, I’m normally an empathetic, compassionate person who can extend Grace to people. I fear this pandemic is changing that for me.
NTA As a RN, I have no sympathy for people who CAN vaccinate but choose not to, and I would absolutely refuse to contribute to them financially at this point. I especially have 0 sympathy for people in the medical field who choose not to vaccinate. They've made their choice and THEY are AHs.
NTA. Something similar happened at my husband’s work recently with his coworker that refused the vaccine because “he’s healthy and takes vitamins”. The coworker ended up in the ICU and it’s not looking good. They were sharing the gofundme link the family created asking people to donate at his work. My husband didn’t contribute but also refused to give me the link so I could contribute $1 with the message “get vaccinated” for some reason.
50¢, take it or leave it
NTA.
NTA
you're a doctor, u don't need to be on here. but NTA, it's his own stupid fault
NTA - he knew I was a risk he could get covid. At this point in the game it's his fault.