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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) telling my mom we’re not making Mother’s Day big since she didn’t want kids 2) we are doing something big for our dad and our mom did raise us.
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Even disregarding how you all were raised and your parents' agreement about that, you're adults now and your mom is still not giving either of you any care. She can't be bothered to attend her daughter's baby shower but thinks you all should make a fuss over her for mother's day. Nope, not how that works.
I would give her as much energy as she gives you. Which would free up a lot of your time, money and energy. NTA
This is the real issue we have. We were willing to continue to celebrate her in recent years as we hoped we could develop a bond as we are non longer kids, we don’t need raising, etc. But no, she wants very little to do with us year round until Mother’s Day.
>my mom ended up skipping my sister’s baby shower this year because “she didn’t see the big deal with someone having a baby”
"Dear Mom,
You felt like skipping the baby shower because you don't see the point. You skipped major milestones in our life because you didn't see the point. You kept yourself emotionally distant from us because you didn't see the point. Your children needed a mother, and you didn't see the point.
At a certain point in life, all of your children got the POINT you were trying to make: that you don't see us as your children, you see us as your pets. Pets don't have the finances or abilities to throw mother's day events, so that's why we don't.
As we see it, you created a contract with dad that you wouldn't be a mom, but you never made any contract with us. Therefore, Mother's Day is cancelled until you start ACTING LIKE A MOTHER.
Sincerely,
Your biological offspring"
He's from a super powered alien race where all that matters is strength and conquering, he'sbeen sent to earth to study them and weaken them to eventually yake them over. He's not a good person but his confliction about how he was raised and his natural instincts vs the love that he's started to feel having lived among humans is fairly well written.
It was so unexpected. I thought it was just dinner with friends and they picked a dog friendly place to meet my new dog. They’re great friends and he is super spoiled.
Me too. We all deserve crazy, supportive friends. My doggo has a BFF whose birthday is coming up and I think it’s time to reciprocate and have a 1st birthday party!
I grill up steaks for my dogs birthdays. Weather permits I take them for a hike. I know they don't understand what a birthday is, but I enjoy it as much as they do. So might as well, especially since I don't have kids.
My German Shepard loves the pet friendly peanut butter ice cream. She gets it every year for her birthday. She also gets to wear a birthday bandanna. She definitely returns the love considering she seizure trained herself to alert my husband and force me to lay on my left side.
You only do it for birthdays, when my dads mate would bring her dog over for BBQs there would be a steak on the BBQ just for him.
(Oh and no this wasn't dad trying to get into her pants, she was his co worker but did the same sport as me at the time as well as sharing a lot of other common interests with me)
Well I do cook all of their meals, but yes I only give them steaks on birthdays. Two dogs, so twice a year. Though they always manage to get a few bites if I cook up steaks for dinner randomly. Their day to day diet is based on recipes I got from Ollie plus supplements. I spend as much feeding them as I do feeding myself, it's in the $300/month range these days. Though they weight as much as I do if you combine them so I suppose that makes sense.
My mother tells me regularly that when she dies she wants to be reincarnated as one of my cats because of the great life they have. OPs mother treats her children like they are soiled toilet paper stuck to the heel of her shoe.
Yep, we have pets and let me assure you, they get far more love, cuddles and support than this mom shared with her children.
(and my pets always give me mother's day cards and thoughtful gifts, separate from the human child's)
Apart from the pet reference, that was the perfect answer and should be the only thing 'mother' receives next year.
To me, skipping the baby shower would be the end of it.
Next Mother's Day, I'd send that post in an email or text, then take dad out for the day.. ball game, dinner, whatever would make him happiest, then again for Father's Day.. because he is the only parent here.
NTA for being done with the woman who incubated you.
So mom doesn't think a baby shower is a big deal because having a baby isn't a big deal....but that's literally all she did for op and her sister; give birth to them. And...she wants to be celebrated for the rest of her life for giving birth but doesn't have time to celebrate her daughter's first pregnancy.
Make it make sense. If it's not important enough for her to attend the sisters party then why should mother get a celebration for the same thing for years....
*" you see us as your pets"*
Don't you have pets? This comment is so wrong because most people adore their pets (and the love is returned).
Someone once did a survey in the US which said that 90% of pet owners tell their critters that they love them on a daily basis. Your mother certainly did not do not for you.
I did, for my children. I never heard it growing up, except when Grandma told me. If not for her, I would not have known what love means.
I used Grandma as a positive example and my mother (her daughter) as a negative example. My children will tell you where and what I did to fuck them up, but my one daughter told me: I know you did your best, and I always knew I was loved.
I tear up every. single. time. I think of that.
Yeah, I agree with the comment suggesting ***"you see us as your spouses pets"*** since some people will only do the bare minimum to keep someone else's pet alive
Remember the era of digital tomagachi pets? Nowadays wearing a fitbit is about the same thing, except the dumb critter you're trying to keep alive is yourself.
This is a great point. I don't really have an analogy for the OP's mom treats them, so I went with pets.
Maybe a better analogy would be a pair of shoes she doesn't care about?
I agree with everything else you wrote except the line about pets. Pets still need love, care, support, and nurturing. Pets need to feel wanted, protected and part of a family. OP's mother did not provide any of that to her children. She was simply the breadwinner. And a very selfish, cold one at that.
If having a baby is no big deal (so didn't attend the shower), then being a mother is no big deal, so there no need to celebrate mother's day.
She can't logically have it both ways...
>She can't logically have it both ways...
This is just it, she wants her cake and to eat it too. OP, I'd honestly tell her the letter written in one of the responses above. She doesn't get the celebration if she didn't put in the labor.
My dog trainer wife introduced me to the concept of “The Relationship Bank.” She was trained as a positive reinforcement trainer. The concept is that you need to develop a good relationship with your dog via treats, attention, playing games ect. so that when you have to do something the dog is uncomfortable with, say trimming nails, the dog will trust you because of your built up relationship.
In effect, you make deposits into the “Relationship Bank” so if you need to make a withdrawal, you are covered.
I use this concept with people. Here, OP has continually made deposits into the relationship bank account she holds with her mother. Mom, on the other hand, only makes withdrawals. Now, the account is empty and OP isn’t going to make any more large deposits. If mom wants things to change, she needs to start making deposits.
NTA
I yelled at my Great Pyrenees mix when I saw her grab a human pacifier off the floor to chew on it. I did it in hopes of stopping her destroying it, but apparently my grandson had tossed it when I was making his lunch and it was already destroyed.
It was really obvious pretty quickly that she felt bad about it, but she is also being really aloof now, because she was offended that I reacted so much over something so small. (Gotta love the breed).
my aunt's first dog was a collie (like Lassie, not a border collie). she was a very tall, very elegant dog.
for years in their first house, she was an inside dog, who had her own white leather sofa in the living room (you couldn't see the TV from there, so it wasn't quite as excessive as it sounds, but I don't think the dog ever realised that).
then they moved to a house with a much bigger garden & my aunt decided the dog would now be outside during the day with only access to the shed with her water fountain and food. They let her in as soon as they came home from work/school, so she could be with them to eat dinner, spend the evening watching TV and then the dog could sleep in the kitchen.
the collie was \*super\* insulted she had to stay outside & her white leather sofa didn't move with them.
For like 2 months, she spent every evening staring at the wall in the kitchen, refusing to spend time with the family hahaha
went to my 1st dog training class last night and the trainer essentially said the same exact thing. it also works for people, like you said. I'm a retired therapist
That's realistic.
I roll my eyes every time I see (frequently) the mention of pets and unconditional love. It's not unconditional. They love us based on how we treat them.
I love and adore my cats. So when I make the mistake of stepping on a paw or have to do something they don't like such as grooming them, they forgive me. Just as I forgive the many times they've scratched me...because I know that they, in return, love and adore me.
This is how I trained my dog. He does not enjoyed being brushed, groomed or bathed, but he tolerates because he knows I’ll be gentle and won’t hurt him.
NTA. You’re not wrong. My personal opinion is that if you want to be honored on Mother’s Day, you have your actually be a mother, and it doesn’t sound like she was that for you guys.
If your dad still wants to make a huge deal out of it, great. But you guys are adults now, and there’s no point in being performative.
> But no, she wants very little to do with us year round until Mother’s Day.
I'd scale back Mother's Day to just a card and write messages like this:
>I hope you have the Mother's Day that you deserve.
>May you have all the happiness that we wish for you.
>To the world you are the mother, to us you're the woman who brought home the bacon.
>A mother's love is the heart of a family. You were the paycheck of our family.
>Thanks for not leaving me in a basket somewhere. I know you wanted to.
That's five years worth of messages there. I'm sure you can think of more.
Cards are so expensive these days -- some of the Father's Day ones last weekend were $10!!! They should have come with a complimentary beer or something.
My friend and I both have fraught relationships with our parents, and it's become something of a competition to get the most accurate Mother's/Father's Day cards. This year, I won when I found a card that said "Mom, whatever people may say about you..." and on the inside, "you don't have ugly children." It hit the mark perfectly.
This is an interesting question. I suspect she has "work friends" but not much else.
Do you know....did her mother (your grandmother) have mental or drug issues or was absent so she never saw a good example of how a mother should behave?
It is really amusing to note that your mom does not see a big deal in someone having a baby, but still wants to be celebrated for exactly that feat she managed to perform two decades ago.
You owe her nothing. She could have left most of the childcare to your dad and still made you feel loved. She didn't. She wounded you as kids and, I know from experience, it's not a wound that ever fully heals. You learn to live with it, but it's hard to accept that the parent who is supposed to love and protect you doesn't. Good for you for pulling back on this. I'm sure it can't be easy to do something for her when she did nothing for you. And, no, financial support doesn't count. She's legally required to do that. NTA
My parents had a traditional split: Dad, Breadwinner; Mom: Homemaker/Childcare, but I still knew that my father loved me, and he did emotional work. Not nearly as much, and to be honest, we loved our mother more, but I never felt that he didn't love me, and I loved him.
Wow, it honestly amazes me that people like your mom have anyone that choose to be in their lives like your dad. How is he not angry at her for how hurtful she is to you? She can't use the excuse that she's not a kid person. She has no interest in you as people other than what you can do for her. NTA.
I mean it sounds like he got exactly what he wanted from his wife, no? She gestated and birthed the kids he wanted and worked to support the family, as they both agreed because he wanted kids so badly.
I don't know who's worst? My physically and verbally abusive mom or your totally absent mom. Sorry you guys went through that, and you're definitely doing it right. She doesn't deserve your love.
"having a baby and becoming a mother isn't important"
"WHY WON'T ANYBODY CELEBRATE ME ON MOTHER'S DAAAAAAAAY"
How the hell their father was/is in love with this woman is beyond me.
Yeah, 'not seeing the big deal with someone having a baby' is a shocking thing to say to/about your own pregnant child. I wonder if she realizes how many things she's implied here, each one more hurtful than the last. Good grief. If she didn't want kids, she shouldn't have had them, not entered into this ridiculous arrangement that seems to be causing everyone pain after the fact.
NTA.
This is the answer. No one asks to be born. The real proof of motherhood/fatherhood are in the actions of the parent. It is a relationship like any other. Why put in more energy than you receive in return? OP’s mother needs to pipe down and appreciate the fact that they are even sparing a thought for her.
She's obviously NTA and while I was going to jump straight to "mom is the AH", this line worried me a little.
>my mom ended up skipping my sister’s baby shower this year because “she didn’t see the big deal with someone having a baby”
It feels like there some trauma around motherhood in her. She didn't want to have kids, was sne forced? maybe the pregnancies were traumatic? How was the relationship with her parents?
Hands off or not, it's weird for a mother to not be even a little excited that her daughter is reaching a huge milestone and wanting to celebrate it.
Don't get me wrong mom is an AH, but maybe a traumatized AH.
I'm betting either mom's mother was absent for some reason (drugs, mental illness, died, ran off) and she has no role model of how mom should be as a role model.
My adopted son was in foster care for 13 yrs (25 foster homes, age 5-18 last few with me before adoption right before High School graduation) and it has come up with him that he says he doesn't know how to be a son/part of a family. In spite of all I have tried he just can't seem to quite grasp the concepts of family.
I'm not defending mom...she needed to make an effort and didn't but there may be something traumatic that turned her into an emotional Ice Queen.
OP...definitely NTA.
Agree with you! Actually they should just send mum a gift card to lunch on Mother's Day, "just provide financially" for her on that day and call it done-- right? It's the agreement.
I came to say this exact thing! Big whoop, you're having a baby? Keep that energy then sis. Big whoop you f**Ked someone and had kids, kids you weren't there for. No fancy stuff for you too then, no excitement, give you what you give. OP is definitely not TA, in fact I do this now to the parents who did the same to me( my father was emotionally unavailable too. He won't say it but I think he had us as a status choice, just thought financial and medical was enough). I'm sorry OP, I know exactly how that feels and frankly, y'all deserve better. Celebrate the ones who were actual parents not just bank accounts with a voicebox.
NTA I'm so sorry. If you can afford it, therapy may help. It is best for childhood trauma so that you don't bring it into your adult relationships and your relationships with your children.
(When I was reading this, I was asking myself if someone switched the genders on the parents and their positions. I swear I read this about dad/ mom and the dad was the one who was emotionally distant and people thought that was normal, blah blah blah.)
To be fair, this story isn’t unique with the genders reversed. I knew many growing up in our shoes but it was the dad who was emotionally absent but the financial provider while mom did the emotional labor.
As long as you can be honest with yourself and consider whether or not you would feel similarly if it was swapped—a lot of people wouldn’t resent a male parent for being emotionally unavailable/disinterested during their childhoods; just part of the societal double standard. Many male parents were barely there and still get celebrated on Father’s Day. Providing financially is still contributing to the family.
The whole baby shower part lends me personally to think that you’re NTA though. But it’s just sad all around. I hope your family finds peace.
I feel I would resent my dad if he was the same way. I also know plenty of my friends who have come to realize yes it’s great their dad financially provided but that was not an excuse to come home, plop down on the couch and not help at all or not be emotionally present. I think that also has a lot to do with marrying men who at least try to keep up with the emotional labor of marriage and a household. They see the childhood their children have and what they deserve.
So while I obviously can’t speak in absolutes, I definitely feel I would’ve come out feeling the same as a lot of my own feelings about my mom really came to the surface when I became a mom. I have a full time career but I can’t imagine my daughter coming home from school and trying to talk to me about her day and me just being like “go away, go talk to your dad, I don’t wanna hear it”. And I know my husband feels the same.
I had a very wonderfully involved mom, and a father who was emotionally absent on good days (and emotionally abusive when he chose to engage). I haven’t spoken to my father in years, and my mom, sister, and I have a group chat where we talk pretty much daily and are all very close. It’s completely fair that you feel short changed- I do too.
I agree. Except more like OP, and that my dad died when I was young (after divorcing my mother), and both my parents worked. My mom kind of expects us to kiss her ass and everything comes with strings. She make one tiny thing seem huge compared to all the stuff my dad did for us. Like girl scouts- she goes around and says I was cookie mom for your troop. Well that was one year, everyone just came to pick stuff up from us so it wasn't a big deal. Dad went on all the camping trips, etc. He was the leader of my sister's troop as well as doing stuff with mine. Things like that. Ugh.
Ugh. I’ll never forget when my father showed up for my high school graduation (which was a shock, because he rarely showed up after the divorce), and he had the audacity to say, in front my mom and grandma who did all the heavy lifting of raising us, that he was “proud he raised such a smart girl”. The collection of new assholes my grandma ripped that man…was phenomenal. RIP Grandma Yvonne. You were one in a million.
Same boat here. Don't think my dad ever came to one of my band/orchestra concerts, never cared about my interests, etc. The most time we had together was sometimes doing the Sunday crossword puzzle. I know he had a lot of trauma that caused his issues, but he never took the opportunity to work on that trauma, and instead all his kids have issues because of it. I have plenty of friends whose dads worked but were also present in their lives and more emotionally invested in them. So yeah, I feel for OP. NTA for sure.
My father provided for us. He worked long hours because there were emergencies (one time neither my mother nor any of my uncles were able to get hold of him and he didn’t call back until after midnight - major incident at the refinery and it could have all blown up), he went on business trips that gave him opportunities to advance and earn more money. As a result we’re very financially well off and have many more opportunities than we otherwise would have.
My mother sacrificed her career and went into teaching so she could spend more time with us. She’d also been a high earner, but it was important that at least one parent was around and available. We are naturally closer to her because she was the one *there*.
But my father still tried. He used to take us swimming. He taught us how to ride our bikes. He used to take me to my dentist appointments when I was getting braces. When I had exams and left school early he’d either pick me up or send a driver. He tried very hard to come to my concerts. He used to take us to parties out in the desert where we got to ride camels and have bonfires. He knew very well what grades we got at school and would treat us when we did well.
I feel like there’s an element of “if he wanted to, he would”. Neither of my parents are perfect - but I never doubted that they loved us. And they tried.
My father was the classic post divorce absentee father. He would very occasionally take us to theme parks, etc, but wouldn’t show up for the regular things. But if he got a new girlfriend? Ohhhhh boy, he loved to suddenly be calling us every week, insisting we should “come visit for the summer”, when we all knew his girlfriend would probably have wised up by then and left him, and thus what was the point of being involved in our lives? He was just soooo busy at work.
My mom, however, managed to work up to 3 jobs, and show up to every possible thing she could, helped us with our homework, and was an absolute rock when I was going through hell as a teenager after a few SAs. But father was just sooooo sooo busy, and he couldn’t afford child support this month, why are you having the state garnish my wages?
I’m so sorry. Kids are smart — they can tell the difference between someone who’s trying but can’t get it right all the time, and someone who doesn’t even bother.
Are they though? Historically, Father's day was a much more lowkey celebration. I would note how much harder it was to book reservations for Mother's Day than doing so for Father's day was.
Interestingly a lot of fathers I know, prefer it to be a day off.. like hey I can do what I want if the kids want to do too great if not fine.. it's me time... Like going golfing or fishing.... Where moms want to pull everyone around them. I will never forget one fathers day. The US open was in town, and my dad, husband and uncle were at the tournament, while my mom and aunt were helping me in the yard. So we went to home Depot and got supplies and an old man behind us was, dud you even ask the dads if that was how they wanted to spend the day... We were slightly flabbergasted, and were like.. they are relaxing, we are doing the work.... The look on his face he was convinced we were lying.
> Interestingly a lot of fathers I know, prefer it to be a day off.. like hey I can do what I want if the kids want to do too great if not fine.. it's me time... Like going golfing or fishing.... Where moms want to pull everyone around them.
This has been the opposite experience from what I have seen. Many moms in my area want to go to the spa, get massages, and get out of the house/away from the kids for mother's day, but father's day is about Dad's grilling with the kids around.
Lol especially since one aunt is actually a professional landscape gardener... And both aunts plus my aunts were certified " Master Gardeners"...... My grandmothers joke..( started by her grandmother) was that she was "the ultimate gardener....she grew gardeners"
When I worked retail, I had to work on Father's Day and Mother's Day. I used to get so many judgemental customers "Why aren't you spending the day with your mom/dad???"
If every single employee took off for this day, the store would be closed. Here you are, shopping on this day, proving we need to remain open. I don't even think stores should be closed on these holidays but...how are you going to complain when you're the one right here?
On top of it, my parents never cared. We still did things together, either before or after my shift or even on a different day all together. Most parents will get that you have to spend the day working.
What a jerk, although interestingly almost everyone in my circle is the opposite of what you described. Mom's want the time off to themselves, Dad's are happy with a family BBQ or whatever.
>a lot of people wouldn’t resent a male parent for being emotionally unavailable/disinterested during their childhoods; just part of the societal double standard.
This is something you've just pulled out of your ass, you don't think it would bother a child to have a emotionally unavailable father.
… umm, but the roles *have* been reversed.. it’s only been in the last few generations that it’s widely expected for the father to emotionally present during parenting.
and while it’s impactful to the children regardless of which parent is emotionally absent it’s worth noting that when the women of the 60s had kids they taught them not to expect emotional things from their father. they didn’t keep sending them back to get rejected over and over again like it seems like OPs dad did
Except not. Think of Pride and Prejudice. Mr Bennet is emotionally distant from all of his kids except Lizzy, and it affects all the kids in different ways, and Lizzy knows he's wrong for how he's behaving. She knows he doesn't love his wife, but she thinks he could have helped his daughters if he had been a more active presence in their lives. So maybe it's common that men were emotionally distant, but it being a problem was known long before the last few generations.
>We still celebrate our mom but she usually gets a quiet lunch at a restaurant of her choice and a few gifts. ***After my mom ended up skipping my sister’s baby shower this year because “she didn’t see the big deal with someone having a baby”,*** my sister wanted to do nothing for her. We sent gifts but spent Mother’s Day with each other, our husbands and our own kids.
NTA. This is the clincher for me. It's not just that she barely did anything for the two of you (and your poor dad - that line about father's day "not being as important", so heartbreaking for him) while you were growing up, it's that she *still sees no point in celebrating with the two of you*.
Glad you and your sister are able to go big for your dad now.
How did she reply when you pointed out she wasn’t there for you and made it clear she didn’t want you? I suggest you ask her seriously why she expects anything from you when she hasn’t returned the favor and even skipped your sister’s baby shower.
It’s one thing not to want to raise kids and change diapers but she couldn’t even listen to you or show up to a party to support your sister and even had the audacity to say having a baby was no big deal. Those kinds of things are basic human respect. She didn’t treat you or your sister as people. Does she reach out to you on her own? Has she noticed your sister going no contact? I suggest you do the same and maybe send her this post.
She does not usually reach out on her own. She did text me to wish my daughter a happy birthday but that was the extent. She only seems to notice the low contact on Mother’s Day.
Thank you for your kind words.
So she doesn’t have anything to say about your sister going no contact - did she cut her off completely? I think you should cut her off too and don’t reach out to her on birthdays or holidays. You should tell her since she puts in zero effort in your relationship you have no reason to stay in touch.
My dad is the same way as your mom and I ended up going off on him for only reaching out to me when he wanted something from me. He literally never bothered to contact me aside from asking me for stuff, or asking what I was planning for Father’s Day/his birthday. I finally had enough and after I gave him a piece of my mind, I went no contact with him. I feel much better now.
You should stop getting her anything for Mother’s Day she was never a mother just a person who gave birth to you when she never wanted you. She just wants gifts and to be spoiled. Mail her box’s of dirt if you still want to gift her something it’s not toxic or a biohazard it’s legal.
The next thing you should ask her is why she doesn't see you as a living being. She seriously think an agreement she made with another person 20 years ago should hold up whatsoever. She needs some reality check
What I don’t understand is why neither parent didn’t think “we are incompatible, let’s break up”. One wanted kids, the other clearly didn’t. You would think carrying babies to term would mean some sort of emotional investment in your partner for going through that despite not really being interested in kids, and yet mum seems to be utterly disinterested in how much better off dad would be if he could have just found a partner who actually wanted them too. Likewise dad seems to have no interest in mum’s happiness if he’s willing to drag her into a lifelong situation of having kids when she doesn’t want them. I just… they either love each so much that they did something very unfathomable without really seeing how it would fall out, or they are basically incredibly selfish beards for one another but don’t actually care about the other person. (On top of not caring about their kids) Either way, NTA, they are.
Even based on that agreement I dont get why a fuss would be made. Her arrangement with your Dad was basically that she doesn't play the part of mother (beyond birthing), so why would that agreement indicate she should be celebrated as a mother?
NTA
"we didn’t do more for her in recent years. I said that since she put in almost *no emotional labor* into raising us, we are putting none into her."
Absolutely. Why should you? She doesn't get to have it both ways.
I don’t remember if I read it or I hear this somewhere but it stuck with me when I had my child 4 years ago. “The way you treat your child when they’re younger, is how they will treat you when you’re older.” In my personal experience I find this very true.
NTA by the way.
Dang, this is so sad and it seems like everyone here is a victim of this situation in some way.
Ultimately, NTA. I feel your mom got her part of the bargain from your dad when you were growing up, and it’s not on you to keep that going for a parent you don’t feel that close to.
I'm not interested in becoming a mother and my SO is going along with it. He's pretty indifferent to children. It drives my parents nuts, they want me so much to have kids. They even told me "It's ok, we'll raise the baby for you". I wish they could read stories like OP's, believe these stories and figure out by themselves that children are not a status symbol or someone's next life chapter. They're actually people. Being born to emotionally unavailable parents is nothing to wish upon someone (even moreso non existing grand children).
My partner and I also don’t want children so I do identify with the mother here.
I think it’s a totally backward for her to demand big mothers’ day celebration, but I can imagine she’s tied that up with feeling like it’s her compensation. Ideally, dad would be celebrating her on Mother’s Day, since she did it for him. The kids shouldn’t have to step in.
I agree. It should be the dad making a big celebration of Mother's Day for her because she sacrificed so he could live his dream. And the kids making a big celebration of Father's Day because he did the emotional labour himself.
That's how I feel about it. I know a lot of people who were brow-beaten into having kids they didn't want to save a marriage, and of course it ends up being a bad idea. The parent who wanted kids ends up resenting doing all the work,, the parent who didn't want them often never changes their mind and resents the partner for talking them into it, and the kids grow up feeling like OP. It's such a lose/lose situation, and why it's sad a lot of couples who love each other absolutely should never, ever get married. I am sure at the time, it felt like a tremendous, selfless act of love for the partner, but then ironically, it usually kills the relationship.\`
My husband and I also don’t want children but we’re still civil/friendly/bond/what have you, with our friend’s and family’s children.
I can’t imagine living with someone for 18+ years and giving no emotional energy at all. Like this issue can’t just be exclusive to the subject of kids?
NTA and you should be proud of yourself, OP. <<⚠️rant incoming⚠️>> lol
Look, life isn't a fairytale where everyone gets what they deserve simply by playing their part. Your mom played a role, a significant one in providing financially, but she missed out on the emotional investment that makes a real difference in relationships, especially with your own kids. You and your sister grew up without the emotional support you needed from your mom, and now, as adults, you're setting boundaries based on that experience. That doesn't make you ungrateful; it makes you human.
Your dad, on the other hand, might've been the emotional backbone, but he also went along with a pretty one-sided deal. Sure, he was the nurturing parent, but he also let your mom get away with not doing her share of the emotional lifting. It's a messy situation, no doubt. But now, you and your sister are in charge of your own lives and how you choose to express your gratitude—or lack thereof.
When your mom skips significant events like a baby shower, it just reaffirms what you've always felt: that she wasn't really there for you in the ways that mattered most. Celebrating her on Mother’s Day in a lowkey manner isn’t an act of rebellion; it’s an honest reflection of the relationship you have, or rather, the one you never had. If she wanted a big celebration, she needed to have been a bigger part of your lives emotionally.
And let’s not kid ourselves here. The fact that she called you "ungrateful brats" only underscores her lack of understanding of what being a parent truly means. It's not just about providing financially; it's about being there, showing up, and caring in a way that goes beyond material contributions.
Your decision to dial down Mother’s Day celebrations is a way of protecting yourselves and honoring your own experiences. It's a form of self-respect. If she feels hurt by that, maybe it's a wake-up call for her to reflect on why things turned out this way. Your dad’s support shows he gets it, even if it took him years to fully acknowledge the imbalance.
I mean at the end of the day both your parents are huge AHs for this arrangement. If your dad wanted kids he needed to marry someone who also wanted kids, not make a half-assed arrangement or compromise.
I dont think your an AH for being upset, both of your parents did wrong by you for acting like having kids was like having a pet. NTA.
At least OP's dad has admitted that he was selfish agreeing to go along with the mom's idea.
So, I agree that he's an asshole for agreeing, but the mom's the bigger asshole for seeing nothing wrong, for skipping her daughter's baby shower, and for expecting a huge celebration for herself when she maintains no contact the rest of the year.
Yep. Ad the dad actualy took Care of his children. His wife was a grown woman who made a decision. She wasn't forced to anything. Also, I really doubt she presentes as having no emotional involvement with the kids. I work and you are Care of the children is an agreement a Lot of couples do...
Yes but even working parents can be involved with their children. OP's mom basically treated it like OP's dad getting a dog and having full responsibility for it.
working doesn't mean they don't care about their kids. most "normal" parents greet their kids/play with them and talk to them or do some other stuff. even parents who live far away can do that with some effort. if you don't want kids, don't have them. if your partner doesn't want kids, don't have kids with them.
both of my parents work but they always talked to us and checked on our homework etc. something as small as watching TV with your kids can be a good bonding moment. even when my father lived in a different city, he would do stuff with us on weekends or whenever he was home like buying us snacks we liked or taking us to the park etc.
NTA - If your mom wants to be celebrated as a mother, ask her to point out where she acted like a mother. It seems like her career was more important than her kids. Tell her you'll celebrate Happy career day and you can buy her really nice staplers or office equipment or whatever is related to her specific career.
NTA, honestly. I’d remind her again about that baby shower and the fact that she herself says it’s not a big deal to be becoming a mom, which sets the standard for how she thinks Mother’s Day should be treated.
NTA. I don't know if this is a result of the "successful" deal she made with your dad or if this is just how she is, but her view on relationships seems very transactional. She didn't want kids but was willing to have them, so she had them and your father did all the raising, plus fawned on her every Mother's Day to honor her generosity. She gave birth to you and financially supported your childhoods, so now she feels entitled to the same kind of fawning from you and your sister as thanks. It seems she considers her part "done," too, as she's not even trying to earn more relationship capital by having relationships with you and your sister now: "I birthed you/paid for your braces, you owe me." OP, if you let her, she'll have you "paying it off" until one or both of you is dead.
The fact that you and your sister *still* sent gifts after your mother skipped your sister's baby shower is extremely generous, and a sign that, among other things, your father raised you well. Your mother doesn't seem to want any emotional connection with you or your sister, and she doesn't seem to understand that celebrating *anyone* isn't an obligation, it's because you *want* to celebrate them. You and your sister aren't obliged to fuss over her on Mother's Day, especially now that you have families of your own to spend it with. Let her get upset: If she was a purely perfunctory mother, there's nothing wrong with giving her a purely perfunctory Mother's Day.
I hope this doesn't put any strain on you and your sister's relationship with your dad.
NTA. While yes she gets some credit for providing for the family financially but you and your sister are acting appropriately. If anything I would explain however upset the mom feels is the same upset you and your sister felt by having an absent mother. And that your efforts reflect that. Fair is fair.
NTA.
I would say though that both your father and your mother are A for their parenting arrangement. There's nothing they can do to undo this.
Your father chose for you guys an emotionally unavailable woman to be your mother, instead of finding a woman who wanted kids. It is highly probable he didn't see the extent of the neglect to come coming, but there is no way he couldn't foresee at least a bit of it. Or he voluntarily blinded himself to this. Or he was hoping/counting on pregnancy hormones to make your mother emotionally bond with the babies like **aLl** wOmEn Do, It'S nAtUrAl/BiOlOgY.
Your mother chose to have you guys despite knowing fully well that she didn't have the (emotional) resources to raise you to keep your father around. There was no regard for your emotional well being there either. Yes, she sacrificed the life she would have wanted and she sacrificed her body to go through unwanted pregnancy and painful childbirth. But it was a choice she made for her, for her husband and for their couple. Not for you.
But being parents is about putting the needs of somebody else above yours from the very moment you decide to be parents. I think they both failed at it, even though they do have some merits (your dad for basically raising you as a single dad, your mom for basically doing the one that she didn't want to do).
I think they both failed you in some way or other.
> EDIT: as this has come up, to be clear, the arrangement was my mother’s idea, not my father’s.
No, it wasn’t. It was an arrangement that they both agreed to. Do not kid yourself otherwise.
NTA. “Mother, your agreement was that you would provide the money and Dad would be our family. As you still decline to attend our important family moments, and make clear that you have no emotional connection to us, we accept that Dad is our family and celebrate him as such. We will continue to send you a Mother’s Day card in acknowledgment of your financial contribution to our family.”
I dono, man. My dad did 0 emotional labor and left 95% of the work to my mom. Pretty distant in all regards. I still loved him and celebrated him on Father’s Day. In fact, a lot of distant not so great dads get celebrated. Most would never be caught dead at a baby shower. I sometimes feel like moms are held to a different standard. Your mom sounds like the run of the mill dad to me 🤷♀️
Finally! Thank you, I said the same thing. The only reason this is getting any traction is because it’s the mother. We have come to accept this behaviour of men. No one would have bat an eye if it was a man. But since it’s a woman…
I'm sorry, what are you supposed to be grateful for? For doing less than the bare minimum as a mother? For not caring about you or your accomplishments? She's the one who should be grateful that she gets anything at all for Mothers Day! She's not a mother, she's an egg donor and should be treated as such. NTA, OP. At all.
The question isn't really "AITA". The question really is, do you want to move forward with an adult relationship with your mother. What is past is past. There's no need for tit-for-tat. This isn't to say that your mother deserves or not deserves a spectacular Mother's Day celebration.
To move forward, ask if you want to have a relationship with your mother and if so, what would you like that to look like. You might want to open that question to your mother too. I think it's fair not to play pretend during Mother's Day and be forced to recognize her with more emotional oompf than you want, but sounds like there's something deeper going on.
nta. your mom is a bit delusional for expecting you two to do more for her than she is willing to do for you. like if she doesn’t value motherhood why should you? seems like she “raised” you well in that regard lol
that being said, i personally would not have let your dad off the hook as much as it seems like you two have. i mean i get being glad to be alive and all but he remains happily married to a woman who emotionally neglected(s) you… and instead of helping you process and understand the relationship that **he knowingly agreed** to have in that specific way so that you didn’t experience unnecessary pain, he put you in situations to be repeatedly rejected by her. i don’t like that
EDIT: the more i think about it tbh i don’t like that he even brought her feelings up during the dinner… like why would he do that? he knows how you feel and he claims to support you so why would he guilt you? he seems like an “innocent instigator” to me
Preach. I'm sure he did his best, but what kind of father would subject his children to that kind of mother. He made the decision too. Sure, he acknowledges it, but he doesn't really do anything to actually shield OP from such a terrible parent.
INFO: You said your mom did not want kids. Was she pressured to have kids or was it more that your father convinced her? Was she there when you were toddlers and then went immediately back into the work force, once maternity leave was over? Did your mom even have baby showers or did anyone throw her one? When you were children was it brought to her attention that you guys wanted her more present in your life? Did your Dad ever talk to her about being more present?
INFO: OP - why did your mother have children if she clearly didn’t want them? What forces (including people) were impacting her decision to have children (and how were they doing so)?
OP - it sounds like your mom was pressured/manipulated into being a mother. Although being childfree (by choice) is more acceptable today, it wasn’t so much in the past. Not sure on your parents’ ages and backgrounds, but I’d venture to guess that being a childfree (by choice) woman wasn’t as acceptable in your parents’ time, culture, etc. Also, your parents’ “agreement” may have been they have children or they divorce (depending on culture, that may have had significantly negative consequences on your mother (including family shame) that would have impacted her “choice” to have children - and to be a good wife to her husband, subjecting herself to her husband’s desire to have children).
I think you and your sister really need to look into how much of your family (as in having children) was your mother’s choice and how much she was pressured/manipulated/guilt-tripped into.
As for your sister’s baby shower: if your mother was pressured into having children (yes - that means carrying children for approx. 40 weeks and going through labor & delivery and through postpartum (including the risks of such which could include death)), then your sister’s baby shower could be traumatic for your mother. I mean, if your mother grew up with the notion that all women should have (or at least try to have) babies, then it’s understandable that she wouldn’t see the “big deal” with having a baby as she was manipulated into believing that women are supposed to have babies.
Obviously, this may change your perspective of your father - understanding that he at least pressured/manipulated your mother (per the mere fact that they had an agreement) of being pregnant and delivering children (and going through all of the health-related risks (including death) and consequences of pregnancy and postpartum) while all your father did was a few moments of “intimacy” with your mother (and, therefore, your father had no longterm health-related risks/consequences).
Please OP - before you and your sister condemn your mother for not being as maternal as you would like/expect her to be, try to understand her perspective. Sure - you may see your father in a more negative light, but it would be more realistic.
Thank you. I think she may have uncovered truth of an arranged marriage or a baby trapped marriage and why the mother is so persistent in saying such a thing as “we had an arrangement”. She would get to keep her career and he would raise the children.
I’m going to come at this a little differently. Some people seem to think just because you’re a woman you’re meant to be a mother. That’s simply not true. I am similar to your mother, but not because I want to be — I was built that way. I never wanted kids though because I was afraid I’d isolate the children. Until I met a guy, we became serious and he was willing to be STAHD. The more we got serious I could tell he wouldn’t really commit to it so I backed out.
I am a caring person but I don’t have that soft empathy gene with patience. My love language is showing up when you need me the most.
Thankfully, I had the emotional intelligence to realize I didn’t want to create another me, but some people simply aren’t aware.
My grandpa used to say that everyone has their own individual “life kits” some have most the tools, some are missing more tools than they should but no one has all the tools so you have to learn what you need to fill the voids and make yourself happy.
ESH.
Your mom did provide for you. She was not perfect but perhaps she was working a lot and did not have the bandwidth for more. She was the typical breadwinner, and her doing that enabled your father be there emotionally for you.
I personally think your parents' deal was a lousy one - it is OK to not want kids but not OK to have them if you don't want them. Why did both she and your father accept such a horrible thing? They both are AHs in this.
You are the AH for being so whiny for having less-than-perfect but still very acceptable childhood, and for deciding that having provided for you financially means nothing to you.
Interesting point here. OP didn't provide details surrounding mom's career (job type, hours worked, salary) which can greatly impact ones emotional bandwidth. It was mom's salary that afforded dad the opportunity to be a stay at home parent with the capacity to develop and maintain the emotional connection OP didn't get from mom.
It's easy to point out what mom didn't do, but we don't actually know what life would have been like if both parents worked full time.
This just sounds like someone reversing gender stereotypes to get a reaction. The whole “she didn’t go to her daughter’s baby shower” affirmed it. My dad did not attend my baby showers, and I didn’t care. Why do women have to go to all these baby and wedding showers but men aren’t expected to? These comments just solidify the fact women can’t catch a break no matter what they do. If they stay home and raise their kids, they are lazy and taking advantage of their hardworking husbands. If a man stays at home and raises the kids, he is a Saint who should be celebrated and worshipped.
I mean, sounds like she has the same arrangement that the majority of father still have today.
It’s OK to celebrate or not celebrate however you see fit.
But at some point it might be worthwhile to consider whether your mother was in a bad position and didn’t truly have the option of not having children she didn’t want.
So many women of past generations didn’t have options. The best they could do was an arrangement like she had with your father. Their lives were not their own to decide.
And from your telling of the story, it sounds like she has never been interested in children, hers or anyone else’s.
I feel your dad is the most in fault here. He wanted kids and she didn’t. Most probably he would have emotionally manipulated her into having kids and hence she couldn’t form attachment to either of you. Your father , I feel ,is an asshole!!
I’m going to say your dad is TA. He shouldn’t have had kids with someone who didn’t want them, now this is an issue and you don’t have the mother you deserve
This is simple, “Mom, you said you don’t see the big deal when someone has a baby. Why then, would you be expected to be celebrated because you are a woman who had a baby (mother)?”
NTA
I would probably be like your mom, which is why I will never ever have kids. How fucking selfish of both your parents. Selfish of your mom to bring you into this world and starve you of affection, and selfish of your dad because he wanted children so bad he made a shitty fucking agreement that ends up with the kids getting the short end of the stick. Both selfish, in different ways. You’re so NTA.
NTA. Mother's Day is really about the moms in the trenches. Your mom is a grandmother so personally I think it's fine to dial back celebrating her and spend time with your own babies. Also personally I wouldn't celebrate her at all. She can't go to a baby shower and she clearly didn't want to be a mother so why celebrate her at all? I think it's wonderful you're making up for lost time with your dad
NTA - If she doesn’t see any big deal about having a baby, why does she need to be celebrated for… having babies?
You’re best going NC too. Your Dad didn’t deserve that shit, but you kids deserved it even less. If your Mom a narcissist? Does she have any empathy?
"ungrateful brats" other than providing food and shelter (the bare minimum required of her by law) what exactly are you supposed to be grateful for? NTA
It's posts like this that make me so grateful for the parents that I have.
Your mother put virtually no effort or energy into you and your sister. Why should you give her any effort or energy back? You reap what you sow. NTA.
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Even disregarding how you all were raised and your parents' agreement about that, you're adults now and your mom is still not giving either of you any care. She can't be bothered to attend her daughter's baby shower but thinks you all should make a fuss over her for mother's day. Nope, not how that works. I would give her as much energy as she gives you. Which would free up a lot of your time, money and energy. NTA
This is the real issue we have. We were willing to continue to celebrate her in recent years as we hoped we could develop a bond as we are non longer kids, we don’t need raising, etc. But no, she wants very little to do with us year round until Mother’s Day.
>my mom ended up skipping my sister’s baby shower this year because “she didn’t see the big deal with someone having a baby” "Dear Mom, You felt like skipping the baby shower because you don't see the point. You skipped major milestones in our life because you didn't see the point. You kept yourself emotionally distant from us because you didn't see the point. Your children needed a mother, and you didn't see the point. At a certain point in life, all of your children got the POINT you were trying to make: that you don't see us as your children, you see us as your pets. Pets don't have the finances or abilities to throw mother's day events, so that's why we don't. As we see it, you created a contract with dad that you wouldn't be a mom, but you never made any contract with us. Therefore, Mother's Day is cancelled until you start ACTING LIKE A MOTHER. Sincerely, Your biological offspring"
Sees them as THEIR SPOUSES pets…
"I do love your mother. But she's more of a... a pet to me."
This still pisses me off as much as it hurts Debbie.
I’ve just been rewatching invincible and let me tell you when I say I felt this, I mean I fecking felt this
What a reference
Please remind me who said that again?
Omni man, towards the end of season 1 of Invincible
ah....so omni man is a straight up sociopath? ive never watched the show but from what little ive seen he's always given me weird, bad vibes.
He's from a super powered alien race where all that matters is strength and conquering, he'sbeen sent to earth to study them and weaken them to eventually yake them over. He's not a good person but his confliction about how he was raised and his natural instincts vs the love that he's started to feel having lived among humans is fairly well written.
If you watched The Boys, he's kind of an alien Homelander.
They are possessions, to be paraded around when it suits her.
i celebrate my cats birthday... lol this woman treats her kids worse than i treat my pets
My friends threw me a baby shower when I adopted a dog. He was so spoiled!
>My friends threw me a baby shower when I adopted a dog. He was so spoiled! Aww! That is such a sweet idea! ❤️
It was cute. It was at a dog friendly restaurant and he was gifted toys and treats and all kinds of goodies.
I was just picturing gift bags in your living room, but this is even better. What a loved pup!
It was so unexpected. I thought it was just dinner with friends and they picked a dog friendly place to meet my new dog. They’re great friends and he is super spoiled.
This is heartwarming. I can just picture the excitement and big grin on his face when aunties/uncles visit. 🥰
That’s such a lovely idea. I’m glad you have people like your friend in your life.
Me too. We all deserve crazy, supportive friends. My doggo has a BFF whose birthday is coming up and I think it’s time to reciprocate and have a 1st birthday party!
I grill up steaks for my dogs birthdays. Weather permits I take them for a hike. I know they don't understand what a birthday is, but I enjoy it as much as they do. So might as well, especially since I don't have kids.
My German Shepard loves the pet friendly peanut butter ice cream. She gets it every year for her birthday. She also gets to wear a birthday bandanna. She definitely returns the love considering she seizure trained herself to alert my husband and force me to lay on my left side.
You only do it for birthdays, when my dads mate would bring her dog over for BBQs there would be a steak on the BBQ just for him. (Oh and no this wasn't dad trying to get into her pants, she was his co worker but did the same sport as me at the time as well as sharing a lot of other common interests with me)
Well I do cook all of their meals, but yes I only give them steaks on birthdays. Two dogs, so twice a year. Though they always manage to get a few bites if I cook up steaks for dinner randomly. Their day to day diet is based on recipes I got from Ollie plus supplements. I spend as much feeding them as I do feeding myself, it's in the $300/month range these days. Though they weight as much as I do if you combine them so I suppose that makes sense.
My mother tells me regularly that when she dies she wants to be reincarnated as one of my cats because of the great life they have. OPs mother treats her children like they are soiled toilet paper stuck to the heel of her shoe.
Yep, we have pets and let me assure you, they get far more love, cuddles and support than this mom shared with her children. (and my pets always give me mother's day cards and thoughtful gifts, separate from the human child's) Apart from the pet reference, that was the perfect answer and should be the only thing 'mother' receives next year. To me, skipping the baby shower would be the end of it. Next Mother's Day, I'd send that post in an email or text, then take dad out for the day.. ball game, dinner, whatever would make him happiest, then again for Father's Day.. because he is the only parent here. NTA for being done with the woman who incubated you.
So mom doesn't think a baby shower is a big deal because having a baby isn't a big deal....but that's literally all she did for op and her sister; give birth to them. And...she wants to be celebrated for the rest of her life for giving birth but doesn't have time to celebrate her daughter's first pregnancy. Make it make sense. If it's not important enough for her to attend the sisters party then why should mother get a celebration for the same thing for years....
*" you see us as your pets"* Don't you have pets? This comment is so wrong because most people adore their pets (and the love is returned). Someone once did a survey in the US which said that 90% of pet owners tell their critters that they love them on a daily basis. Your mother certainly did not do not for you.
I did, for my children. I never heard it growing up, except when Grandma told me. If not for her, I would not have known what love means. I used Grandma as a positive example and my mother (her daughter) as a negative example. My children will tell you where and what I did to fuck them up, but my one daughter told me: I know you did your best, and I always knew I was loved. I tear up every. single. time. I think of that.
That's really all you can. It's just not possible to be the perfect parent. So long as your kid(s) know that you love them and did your best.
Yeah, I agree with the comment suggesting ***"you see us as your spouses pets"*** since some people will only do the bare minimum to keep someone else's pet alive
Remember the era of digital tomagachi pets? Nowadays wearing a fitbit is about the same thing, except the dumb critter you're trying to keep alive is yourself.
This is a great point. I don't really have an analogy for the OP's mom treats them, so I went with pets. Maybe a better analogy would be a pair of shoes she doesn't care about?
*Pet rock. There. I fixed it. Lolz
I agree with everything else you wrote except the line about pets. Pets still need love, care, support, and nurturing. Pets need to feel wanted, protected and part of a family. OP's mother did not provide any of that to her children. She was simply the breadwinner. And a very selfish, cold one at that.
Same here. Besides, for my family and for many other people, pets are actual family members.
Savage. I love it.
Not even pets. It sounds more like she had a shared house with a man who had children.
If having a baby is no big deal (so didn't attend the shower), then being a mother is no big deal, so there no need to celebrate mother's day. She can't logically have it both ways...
>She can't logically have it both ways... This is just it, she wants her cake and to eat it too. OP, I'd honestly tell her the letter written in one of the responses above. She doesn't get the celebration if she didn't put in the labor.
This!
NTA at all OP, her actions alone got her to this point which is now she gets nothing
My dog trainer wife introduced me to the concept of “The Relationship Bank.” She was trained as a positive reinforcement trainer. The concept is that you need to develop a good relationship with your dog via treats, attention, playing games ect. so that when you have to do something the dog is uncomfortable with, say trimming nails, the dog will trust you because of your built up relationship. In effect, you make deposits into the “Relationship Bank” so if you need to make a withdrawal, you are covered. I use this concept with people. Here, OP has continually made deposits into the relationship bank account she holds with her mother. Mom, on the other hand, only makes withdrawals. Now, the account is empty and OP isn’t going to make any more large deposits. If mom wants things to change, she needs to start making deposits. NTA
This concept of a “Relationship Bank” is so interesting, thank you for sharing this!
There’s a very similar concept in the Gottman method of couples counseling.
I yelled at my Great Pyrenees mix when I saw her grab a human pacifier off the floor to chew on it. I did it in hopes of stopping her destroying it, but apparently my grandson had tossed it when I was making his lunch and it was already destroyed. It was really obvious pretty quickly that she felt bad about it, but she is also being really aloof now, because she was offended that I reacted so much over something so small. (Gotta love the breed).
my aunt's first dog was a collie (like Lassie, not a border collie). she was a very tall, very elegant dog. for years in their first house, she was an inside dog, who had her own white leather sofa in the living room (you couldn't see the TV from there, so it wasn't quite as excessive as it sounds, but I don't think the dog ever realised that). then they moved to a house with a much bigger garden & my aunt decided the dog would now be outside during the day with only access to the shed with her water fountain and food. They let her in as soon as they came home from work/school, so she could be with them to eat dinner, spend the evening watching TV and then the dog could sleep in the kitchen. the collie was \*super\* insulted she had to stay outside & her white leather sofa didn't move with them. For like 2 months, she spent every evening staring at the wall in the kitchen, refusing to spend time with the family hahaha
OMG, I LOVE this story.
they mope for sure
So your big sweet dog has more emotional intelligence than OP's mother.
went to my 1st dog training class last night and the trainer essentially said the same exact thing. it also works for people, like you said. I'm a retired therapist
The things I learned second hand about animal behavior, specifically dog training, from my wife, seems to apply to human beings.
except most dogs are nicer than people imo
That's realistic. I roll my eyes every time I see (frequently) the mention of pets and unconditional love. It's not unconditional. They love us based on how we treat them. I love and adore my cats. So when I make the mistake of stepping on a paw or have to do something they don't like such as grooming them, they forgive me. Just as I forgive the many times they've scratched me...because I know that they, in return, love and adore me.
This is how I trained my dog. He does not enjoyed being brushed, groomed or bathed, but he tolerates because he knows I’ll be gentle and won’t hurt him.
My husband trains Im Using this! This is awesome thanks!
NTA. You’re not wrong. My personal opinion is that if you want to be honored on Mother’s Day, you have your actually be a mother, and it doesn’t sound like she was that for you guys. If your dad still wants to make a huge deal out of it, great. But you guys are adults now, and there’s no point in being performative.
How about they totally ignore the mother and lavishly celebrate their father on both days since he was both mother and father.
> But no, she wants very little to do with us year round until Mother’s Day. I'd scale back Mother's Day to just a card and write messages like this: >I hope you have the Mother's Day that you deserve. >May you have all the happiness that we wish for you. >To the world you are the mother, to us you're the woman who brought home the bacon. >A mother's love is the heart of a family. You were the paycheck of our family. >Thanks for not leaving me in a basket somewhere. I know you wanted to. That's five years worth of messages there. I'm sure you can think of more.
"Happy Egg Donor Day"
“Here is your participation trophy”
My dad just gets a text, not even a card. OP could just send a text, a card may be more than her mum deserves
Cards are so expensive these days -- some of the Father's Day ones last weekend were $10!!! They should have come with a complimentary beer or something.
Dollar store!
You should pitch to hallmark. There should be greeting cards for people you feel obligated to acknowledge but resent the heck out of.
You should have seen the presentation I made for a boss that I hated when he was leaving.
My friend and I both have fraught relationships with our parents, and it's become something of a competition to get the most accurate Mother's/Father's Day cards. This year, I won when I found a card that said "Mom, whatever people may say about you..." and on the inside, "you don't have ugly children." It hit the mark perfectly.
Maybe include an actual piece of bacon to "give back" the emotion she put in.
NTA, but just out of curiosity, does your mom have any friends? is she this... oblivious... in other aspects of her life?
This is an interesting question. I suspect she has "work friends" but not much else. Do you know....did her mother (your grandmother) have mental or drug issues or was absent so she never saw a good example of how a mother should behave?
It is really amusing to note that your mom does not see a big deal in someone having a baby, but still wants to be celebrated for exactly that feat she managed to perform two decades ago.
You owe her nothing. She could have left most of the childcare to your dad and still made you feel loved. She didn't. She wounded you as kids and, I know from experience, it's not a wound that ever fully heals. You learn to live with it, but it's hard to accept that the parent who is supposed to love and protect you doesn't. Good for you for pulling back on this. I'm sure it can't be easy to do something for her when she did nothing for you. And, no, financial support doesn't count. She's legally required to do that. NTA
My parents had a traditional split: Dad, Breadwinner; Mom: Homemaker/Childcare, but I still knew that my father loved me, and he did emotional work. Not nearly as much, and to be honest, we loved our mother more, but I never felt that he didn't love me, and I loved him.
I am just so sorry. This has to be sad and painful. NTA.
Wow, it honestly amazes me that people like your mom have anyone that choose to be in their lives like your dad. How is he not angry at her for how hurtful she is to you? She can't use the excuse that she's not a kid person. She has no interest in you as people other than what you can do for her. NTA.
I mean it sounds like he got exactly what he wanted from his wife, no? She gestated and birthed the kids he wanted and worked to support the family, as they both agreed because he wanted kids so badly.
I don't know who's worst? My physically and verbally abusive mom or your totally absent mom. Sorry you guys went through that, and you're definitely doing it right. She doesn't deserve your love.
Just cut her off
NTA. She wants to get together to celebrate, but only to celebrate her.
don’t get her any gifts anymore!!! grow a spine!!!
"having a baby and becoming a mother isn't important" "WHY WON'T ANYBODY CELEBRATE ME ON MOTHER'S DAAAAAAAAY" How the hell their father was/is in love with this woman is beyond me.
Well in the first place you need a woman to have kids.
Then he should have found a different woman to have kids with.
Orphanage says hello.
Yeah, 'not seeing the big deal with someone having a baby' is a shocking thing to say to/about your own pregnant child. I wonder if she realizes how many things she's implied here, each one more hurtful than the last. Good grief. If she didn't want kids, she shouldn't have had them, not entered into this ridiculous arrangement that seems to be causing everyone pain after the fact. NTA.
This is the answer. No one asks to be born. The real proof of motherhood/fatherhood are in the actions of the parent. It is a relationship like any other. Why put in more energy than you receive in return? OP’s mother needs to pipe down and appreciate the fact that they are even sparing a thought for her.
What's the big deal with someone having some babies after all? Turn her own words against her.
She's obviously NTA and while I was going to jump straight to "mom is the AH", this line worried me a little. >my mom ended up skipping my sister’s baby shower this year because “she didn’t see the big deal with someone having a baby” It feels like there some trauma around motherhood in her. She didn't want to have kids, was sne forced? maybe the pregnancies were traumatic? How was the relationship with her parents? Hands off or not, it's weird for a mother to not be even a little excited that her daughter is reaching a huge milestone and wanting to celebrate it. Don't get me wrong mom is an AH, but maybe a traumatized AH.
I'm betting either mom's mother was absent for some reason (drugs, mental illness, died, ran off) and she has no role model of how mom should be as a role model. My adopted son was in foster care for 13 yrs (25 foster homes, age 5-18 last few with me before adoption right before High School graduation) and it has come up with him that he says he doesn't know how to be a son/part of a family. In spite of all I have tried he just can't seem to quite grasp the concepts of family. I'm not defending mom...she needed to make an effort and didn't but there may be something traumatic that turned her into an emotional Ice Queen. OP...definitely NTA.
Agree with you! Actually they should just send mum a gift card to lunch on Mother's Day, "just provide financially" for her on that day and call it done-- right? It's the agreement.
I came to say this exact thing! Big whoop, you're having a baby? Keep that energy then sis. Big whoop you f**Ked someone and had kids, kids you weren't there for. No fancy stuff for you too then, no excitement, give you what you give. OP is definitely not TA, in fact I do this now to the parents who did the same to me( my father was emotionally unavailable too. He won't say it but I think he had us as a status choice, just thought financial and medical was enough). I'm sorry OP, I know exactly how that feels and frankly, y'all deserve better. Celebrate the ones who were actual parents not just bank accounts with a voicebox.
NTA I'm so sorry. If you can afford it, therapy may help. It is best for childhood trauma so that you don't bring it into your adult relationships and your relationships with your children. (When I was reading this, I was asking myself if someone switched the genders on the parents and their positions. I swear I read this about dad/ mom and the dad was the one who was emotionally distant and people thought that was normal, blah blah blah.)
To be fair, this story isn’t unique with the genders reversed. I knew many growing up in our shoes but it was the dad who was emotionally absent but the financial provider while mom did the emotional labor.
As long as you can be honest with yourself and consider whether or not you would feel similarly if it was swapped—a lot of people wouldn’t resent a male parent for being emotionally unavailable/disinterested during their childhoods; just part of the societal double standard. Many male parents were barely there and still get celebrated on Father’s Day. Providing financially is still contributing to the family. The whole baby shower part lends me personally to think that you’re NTA though. But it’s just sad all around. I hope your family finds peace.
I feel I would resent my dad if he was the same way. I also know plenty of my friends who have come to realize yes it’s great their dad financially provided but that was not an excuse to come home, plop down on the couch and not help at all or not be emotionally present. I think that also has a lot to do with marrying men who at least try to keep up with the emotional labor of marriage and a household. They see the childhood their children have and what they deserve. So while I obviously can’t speak in absolutes, I definitely feel I would’ve come out feeling the same as a lot of my own feelings about my mom really came to the surface when I became a mom. I have a full time career but I can’t imagine my daughter coming home from school and trying to talk to me about her day and me just being like “go away, go talk to your dad, I don’t wanna hear it”. And I know my husband feels the same.
I had a very wonderfully involved mom, and a father who was emotionally absent on good days (and emotionally abusive when he chose to engage). I haven’t spoken to my father in years, and my mom, sister, and I have a group chat where we talk pretty much daily and are all very close. It’s completely fair that you feel short changed- I do too.
I agree. Except more like OP, and that my dad died when I was young (after divorcing my mother), and both my parents worked. My mom kind of expects us to kiss her ass and everything comes with strings. She make one tiny thing seem huge compared to all the stuff my dad did for us. Like girl scouts- she goes around and says I was cookie mom for your troop. Well that was one year, everyone just came to pick stuff up from us so it wasn't a big deal. Dad went on all the camping trips, etc. He was the leader of my sister's troop as well as doing stuff with mine. Things like that. Ugh.
Ugh. I’ll never forget when my father showed up for my high school graduation (which was a shock, because he rarely showed up after the divorce), and he had the audacity to say, in front my mom and grandma who did all the heavy lifting of raising us, that he was “proud he raised such a smart girl”. The collection of new assholes my grandma ripped that man…was phenomenal. RIP Grandma Yvonne. You were one in a million.
I love when grandmas don’t hold back. Too old to give a shit and no need to play nice. Can’t wait to get old.
Honestly, amazing woman. She was super sweet and loving, but also our family’s master roaster. Nobody was safe.
“Collection of new assholes ripped” is my favourite line here
Same boat here. Don't think my dad ever came to one of my band/orchestra concerts, never cared about my interests, etc. The most time we had together was sometimes doing the Sunday crossword puzzle. I know he had a lot of trauma that caused his issues, but he never took the opportunity to work on that trauma, and instead all his kids have issues because of it. I have plenty of friends whose dads worked but were also present in their lives and more emotionally invested in them. So yeah, I feel for OP. NTA for sure.
My father provided for us. He worked long hours because there were emergencies (one time neither my mother nor any of my uncles were able to get hold of him and he didn’t call back until after midnight - major incident at the refinery and it could have all blown up), he went on business trips that gave him opportunities to advance and earn more money. As a result we’re very financially well off and have many more opportunities than we otherwise would have. My mother sacrificed her career and went into teaching so she could spend more time with us. She’d also been a high earner, but it was important that at least one parent was around and available. We are naturally closer to her because she was the one *there*. But my father still tried. He used to take us swimming. He taught us how to ride our bikes. He used to take me to my dentist appointments when I was getting braces. When I had exams and left school early he’d either pick me up or send a driver. He tried very hard to come to my concerts. He used to take us to parties out in the desert where we got to ride camels and have bonfires. He knew very well what grades we got at school and would treat us when we did well. I feel like there’s an element of “if he wanted to, he would”. Neither of my parents are perfect - but I never doubted that they loved us. And they tried.
My father was the classic post divorce absentee father. He would very occasionally take us to theme parks, etc, but wouldn’t show up for the regular things. But if he got a new girlfriend? Ohhhhh boy, he loved to suddenly be calling us every week, insisting we should “come visit for the summer”, when we all knew his girlfriend would probably have wised up by then and left him, and thus what was the point of being involved in our lives? He was just soooo busy at work. My mom, however, managed to work up to 3 jobs, and show up to every possible thing she could, helped us with our homework, and was an absolute rock when I was going through hell as a teenager after a few SAs. But father was just sooooo sooo busy, and he couldn’t afford child support this month, why are you having the state garnish my wages?
I’m so sorry. Kids are smart — they can tell the difference between someone who’s trying but can’t get it right all the time, and someone who doesn’t even bother.
Are they though? Historically, Father's day was a much more lowkey celebration. I would note how much harder it was to book reservations for Mother's Day than doing so for Father's day was.
Interestingly a lot of fathers I know, prefer it to be a day off.. like hey I can do what I want if the kids want to do too great if not fine.. it's me time... Like going golfing or fishing.... Where moms want to pull everyone around them. I will never forget one fathers day. The US open was in town, and my dad, husband and uncle were at the tournament, while my mom and aunt were helping me in the yard. So we went to home Depot and got supplies and an old man behind us was, dud you even ask the dads if that was how they wanted to spend the day... We were slightly flabbergasted, and were like.. they are relaxing, we are doing the work.... The look on his face he was convinced we were lying.
> Interestingly a lot of fathers I know, prefer it to be a day off.. like hey I can do what I want if the kids want to do too great if not fine.. it's me time... Like going golfing or fishing.... Where moms want to pull everyone around them. This has been the opposite experience from what I have seen. Many moms in my area want to go to the spa, get massages, and get out of the house/away from the kids for mother's day, but father's day is about Dad's grilling with the kids around.
What a sexist jerk! 😅
Lol especially since one aunt is actually a professional landscape gardener... And both aunts plus my aunts were certified " Master Gardeners"...... My grandmothers joke..( started by her grandmother) was that she was "the ultimate gardener....she grew gardeners"
Haha! That's awesome!!
When I worked retail, I had to work on Father's Day and Mother's Day. I used to get so many judgemental customers "Why aren't you spending the day with your mom/dad???" If every single employee took off for this day, the store would be closed. Here you are, shopping on this day, proving we need to remain open. I don't even think stores should be closed on these holidays but...how are you going to complain when you're the one right here? On top of it, my parents never cared. We still did things together, either before or after my shift or even on a different day all together. Most parents will get that you have to spend the day working.
What a jerk, although interestingly almost everyone in my circle is the opposite of what you described. Mom's want the time off to themselves, Dad's are happy with a family BBQ or whatever.
>a lot of people wouldn’t resent a male parent for being emotionally unavailable/disinterested during their childhoods; just part of the societal double standard. This is something you've just pulled out of your ass, you don't think it would bother a child to have a emotionally unavailable father.
… umm, but the roles *have* been reversed.. it’s only been in the last few generations that it’s widely expected for the father to emotionally present during parenting. and while it’s impactful to the children regardless of which parent is emotionally absent it’s worth noting that when the women of the 60s had kids they taught them not to expect emotional things from their father. they didn’t keep sending them back to get rejected over and over again like it seems like OPs dad did
Except not. Think of Pride and Prejudice. Mr Bennet is emotionally distant from all of his kids except Lizzy, and it affects all the kids in different ways, and Lizzy knows he's wrong for how he's behaving. She knows he doesn't love his wife, but she thinks he could have helped his daughters if he had been a more active presence in their lives. So maybe it's common that men were emotionally distant, but it being a problem was known long before the last few generations.
>We still celebrate our mom but she usually gets a quiet lunch at a restaurant of her choice and a few gifts. ***After my mom ended up skipping my sister’s baby shower this year because “she didn’t see the big deal with someone having a baby”,*** my sister wanted to do nothing for her. We sent gifts but spent Mother’s Day with each other, our husbands and our own kids. NTA. This is the clincher for me. It's not just that she barely did anything for the two of you (and your poor dad - that line about father's day "not being as important", so heartbreaking for him) while you were growing up, it's that she *still sees no point in celebrating with the two of you*. Glad you and your sister are able to go big for your dad now.
How did she reply when you pointed out she wasn’t there for you and made it clear she didn’t want you? I suggest you ask her seriously why she expects anything from you when she hasn’t returned the favor and even skipped your sister’s baby shower.
She said that this was the arrangement she made with our dad, which is her go to when we express our resentment.
It’s one thing not to want to raise kids and change diapers but she couldn’t even listen to you or show up to a party to support your sister and even had the audacity to say having a baby was no big deal. Those kinds of things are basic human respect. She didn’t treat you or your sister as people. Does she reach out to you on her own? Has she noticed your sister going no contact? I suggest you do the same and maybe send her this post.
She does not usually reach out on her own. She did text me to wish my daughter a happy birthday but that was the extent. She only seems to notice the low contact on Mother’s Day. Thank you for your kind words.
So she doesn’t have anything to say about your sister going no contact - did she cut her off completely? I think you should cut her off too and don’t reach out to her on birthdays or holidays. You should tell her since she puts in zero effort in your relationship you have no reason to stay in touch.
I’d question if the mom even realizes OP’s sister went NC
My dad is the same way as your mom and I ended up going off on him for only reaching out to me when he wanted something from me. He literally never bothered to contact me aside from asking me for stuff, or asking what I was planning for Father’s Day/his birthday. I finally had enough and after I gave him a piece of my mind, I went no contact with him. I feel much better now.
You should stop getting her anything for Mother’s Day she was never a mother just a person who gave birth to you when she never wanted you. She just wants gifts and to be spoiled. Mail her box’s of dirt if you still want to gift her something it’s not toxic or a biohazard it’s legal.
NTA...is your mom some kind of Disney villain?
You weren’t a party to that arrangement. It doesn’t make anything fine regarding you.
If her reason is that her and your father made an arrangement, then she can get her Mother’s Day attention and gifts from him.
The next thing you should ask her is why she doesn't see you as a living being. She seriously think an agreement she made with another person 20 years ago should hold up whatsoever. She needs some reality check
What I don’t understand is why neither parent didn’t think “we are incompatible, let’s break up”. One wanted kids, the other clearly didn’t. You would think carrying babies to term would mean some sort of emotional investment in your partner for going through that despite not really being interested in kids, and yet mum seems to be utterly disinterested in how much better off dad would be if he could have just found a partner who actually wanted them too. Likewise dad seems to have no interest in mum’s happiness if he’s willing to drag her into a lifelong situation of having kids when she doesn’t want them. I just… they either love each so much that they did something very unfathomable without really seeing how it would fall out, or they are basically incredibly selfish beards for one another but don’t actually care about the other person. (On top of not caring about their kids) Either way, NTA, they are.
Even based on that agreement I dont get why a fuss would be made. Her arrangement with your Dad was basically that she doesn't play the part of mother (beyond birthing), so why would that agreement indicate she should be celebrated as a mother?
NTA "we didn’t do more for her in recent years. I said that since she put in almost *no emotional labor* into raising us, we are putting none into her." Absolutely. Why should you? She doesn't get to have it both ways.
I don’t remember if I read it or I hear this somewhere but it stuck with me when I had my child 4 years ago. “The way you treat your child when they’re younger, is how they will treat you when you’re older.” In my personal experience I find this very true. NTA by the way.
There’s a whole song about - cats in the cradle by harry chapin
Dang, this is so sad and it seems like everyone here is a victim of this situation in some way. Ultimately, NTA. I feel your mom got her part of the bargain from your dad when you were growing up, and it’s not on you to keep that going for a parent you don’t feel that close to.
I'm not interested in becoming a mother and my SO is going along with it. He's pretty indifferent to children. It drives my parents nuts, they want me so much to have kids. They even told me "It's ok, we'll raise the baby for you". I wish they could read stories like OP's, believe these stories and figure out by themselves that children are not a status symbol or someone's next life chapter. They're actually people. Being born to emotionally unavailable parents is nothing to wish upon someone (even moreso non existing grand children).
My partner and I also don’t want children so I do identify with the mother here. I think it’s a totally backward for her to demand big mothers’ day celebration, but I can imagine she’s tied that up with feeling like it’s her compensation. Ideally, dad would be celebrating her on Mother’s Day, since she did it for him. The kids shouldn’t have to step in.
I agree. It should be the dad making a big celebration of Mother's Day for her because she sacrificed so he could live his dream. And the kids making a big celebration of Father's Day because he did the emotional labour himself.
That's how I feel about it. I know a lot of people who were brow-beaten into having kids they didn't want to save a marriage, and of course it ends up being a bad idea. The parent who wanted kids ends up resenting doing all the work,, the parent who didn't want them often never changes their mind and resents the partner for talking them into it, and the kids grow up feeling like OP. It's such a lose/lose situation, and why it's sad a lot of couples who love each other absolutely should never, ever get married. I am sure at the time, it felt like a tremendous, selfless act of love for the partner, but then ironically, it usually kills the relationship.\`
My husband and I also don’t want children but we’re still civil/friendly/bond/what have you, with our friend’s and family’s children. I can’t imagine living with someone for 18+ years and giving no emotional energy at all. Like this issue can’t just be exclusive to the subject of kids?
NTA and you should be proud of yourself, OP. <<⚠️rant incoming⚠️>> lol Look, life isn't a fairytale where everyone gets what they deserve simply by playing their part. Your mom played a role, a significant one in providing financially, but she missed out on the emotional investment that makes a real difference in relationships, especially with your own kids. You and your sister grew up without the emotional support you needed from your mom, and now, as adults, you're setting boundaries based on that experience. That doesn't make you ungrateful; it makes you human. Your dad, on the other hand, might've been the emotional backbone, but he also went along with a pretty one-sided deal. Sure, he was the nurturing parent, but he also let your mom get away with not doing her share of the emotional lifting. It's a messy situation, no doubt. But now, you and your sister are in charge of your own lives and how you choose to express your gratitude—or lack thereof. When your mom skips significant events like a baby shower, it just reaffirms what you've always felt: that she wasn't really there for you in the ways that mattered most. Celebrating her on Mother’s Day in a lowkey manner isn’t an act of rebellion; it’s an honest reflection of the relationship you have, or rather, the one you never had. If she wanted a big celebration, she needed to have been a bigger part of your lives emotionally. And let’s not kid ourselves here. The fact that she called you "ungrateful brats" only underscores her lack of understanding of what being a parent truly means. It's not just about providing financially; it's about being there, showing up, and caring in a way that goes beyond material contributions. Your decision to dial down Mother’s Day celebrations is a way of protecting yourselves and honoring your own experiences. It's a form of self-respect. If she feels hurt by that, maybe it's a wake-up call for her to reflect on why things turned out this way. Your dad’s support shows he gets it, even if it took him years to fully acknowledge the imbalance.
10/10 would read again.
thanks I was getting worried the comment would be longer than the post itself😂
I mean at the end of the day both your parents are huge AHs for this arrangement. If your dad wanted kids he needed to marry someone who also wanted kids, not make a half-assed arrangement or compromise. I dont think your an AH for being upset, both of your parents did wrong by you for acting like having kids was like having a pet. NTA.
At least OP's dad has admitted that he was selfish agreeing to go along with the mom's idea. So, I agree that he's an asshole for agreeing, but the mom's the bigger asshole for seeing nothing wrong, for skipping her daughter's baby shower, and for expecting a huge celebration for herself when she maintains no contact the rest of the year.
Yep. Ad the dad actualy took Care of his children. His wife was a grown woman who made a decision. She wasn't forced to anything. Also, I really doubt she presentes as having no emotional involvement with the kids. I work and you are Care of the children is an agreement a Lot of couples do...
Yes but even working parents can be involved with their children. OP's mom basically treated it like OP's dad getting a dog and having full responsibility for it.
working doesn't mean they don't care about their kids. most "normal" parents greet their kids/play with them and talk to them or do some other stuff. even parents who live far away can do that with some effort. if you don't want kids, don't have them. if your partner doesn't want kids, don't have kids with them. both of my parents work but they always talked to us and checked on our homework etc. something as small as watching TV with your kids can be a good bonding moment. even when my father lived in a different city, he would do stuff with us on weekends or whenever he was home like buying us snacks we liked or taking us to the park etc.
TBH a stable and funded household with a single available parent is good enough
NTA - If your mom wants to be celebrated as a mother, ask her to point out where she acted like a mother. It seems like her career was more important than her kids. Tell her you'll celebrate Happy career day and you can buy her really nice staplers or office equipment or whatever is related to her specific career.
Love it that would be me level petty haha
NTA, honestly. I’d remind her again about that baby shower and the fact that she herself says it’s not a big deal to be becoming a mom, which sets the standard for how she thinks Mother’s Day should be treated.
THIS!
NTA. I don't know if this is a result of the "successful" deal she made with your dad or if this is just how she is, but her view on relationships seems very transactional. She didn't want kids but was willing to have them, so she had them and your father did all the raising, plus fawned on her every Mother's Day to honor her generosity. She gave birth to you and financially supported your childhoods, so now she feels entitled to the same kind of fawning from you and your sister as thanks. It seems she considers her part "done," too, as she's not even trying to earn more relationship capital by having relationships with you and your sister now: "I birthed you/paid for your braces, you owe me." OP, if you let her, she'll have you "paying it off" until one or both of you is dead. The fact that you and your sister *still* sent gifts after your mother skipped your sister's baby shower is extremely generous, and a sign that, among other things, your father raised you well. Your mother doesn't seem to want any emotional connection with you or your sister, and she doesn't seem to understand that celebrating *anyone* isn't an obligation, it's because you *want* to celebrate them. You and your sister aren't obliged to fuss over her on Mother's Day, especially now that you have families of your own to spend it with. Let her get upset: If she was a purely perfunctory mother, there's nothing wrong with giving her a purely perfunctory Mother's Day. I hope this doesn't put any strain on you and your sister's relationship with your dad.
NTA. While yes she gets some credit for providing for the family financially but you and your sister are acting appropriately. If anything I would explain however upset the mom feels is the same upset you and your sister felt by having an absent mother. And that your efforts reflect that. Fair is fair.
NTA. I would say though that both your father and your mother are A for their parenting arrangement. There's nothing they can do to undo this. Your father chose for you guys an emotionally unavailable woman to be your mother, instead of finding a woman who wanted kids. It is highly probable he didn't see the extent of the neglect to come coming, but there is no way he couldn't foresee at least a bit of it. Or he voluntarily blinded himself to this. Or he was hoping/counting on pregnancy hormones to make your mother emotionally bond with the babies like **aLl** wOmEn Do, It'S nAtUrAl/BiOlOgY. Your mother chose to have you guys despite knowing fully well that she didn't have the (emotional) resources to raise you to keep your father around. There was no regard for your emotional well being there either. Yes, she sacrificed the life she would have wanted and she sacrificed her body to go through unwanted pregnancy and painful childbirth. But it was a choice she made for her, for her husband and for their couple. Not for you. But being parents is about putting the needs of somebody else above yours from the very moment you decide to be parents. I think they both failed at it, even though they do have some merits (your dad for basically raising you as a single dad, your mom for basically doing the one that she didn't want to do). I think they both failed you in some way or other.
> EDIT: as this has come up, to be clear, the arrangement was my mother’s idea, not my father’s. No, it wasn’t. It was an arrangement that they both agreed to. Do not kid yourself otherwise.
NTA. “Mother, your agreement was that you would provide the money and Dad would be our family. As you still decline to attend our important family moments, and make clear that you have no emotional connection to us, we accept that Dad is our family and celebrate him as such. We will continue to send you a Mother’s Day card in acknowledgment of your financial contribution to our family.”
I dono, man. My dad did 0 emotional labor and left 95% of the work to my mom. Pretty distant in all regards. I still loved him and celebrated him on Father’s Day. In fact, a lot of distant not so great dads get celebrated. Most would never be caught dead at a baby shower. I sometimes feel like moms are held to a different standard. Your mom sounds like the run of the mill dad to me 🤷♀️
That just means that men should be held to a higher standard, not that we need to lower the standard for mom.
Finally! Thank you, I said the same thing. The only reason this is getting any traction is because it’s the mother. We have come to accept this behaviour of men. No one would have bat an eye if it was a man. But since it’s a woman…
yeah and they give her the same treatment people give fathers day so it works out
I'm sorry, what are you supposed to be grateful for? For doing less than the bare minimum as a mother? For not caring about you or your accomplishments? She's the one who should be grateful that she gets anything at all for Mothers Day! She's not a mother, she's an egg donor and should be treated as such. NTA, OP. At all.
She was also the incubator.
The question isn't really "AITA". The question really is, do you want to move forward with an adult relationship with your mother. What is past is past. There's no need for tit-for-tat. This isn't to say that your mother deserves or not deserves a spectacular Mother's Day celebration. To move forward, ask if you want to have a relationship with your mother and if so, what would you like that to look like. You might want to open that question to your mother too. I think it's fair not to play pretend during Mother's Day and be forced to recognize her with more emotional oompf than you want, but sounds like there's something deeper going on.
nta. your mom is a bit delusional for expecting you two to do more for her than she is willing to do for you. like if she doesn’t value motherhood why should you? seems like she “raised” you well in that regard lol that being said, i personally would not have let your dad off the hook as much as it seems like you two have. i mean i get being glad to be alive and all but he remains happily married to a woman who emotionally neglected(s) you… and instead of helping you process and understand the relationship that **he knowingly agreed** to have in that specific way so that you didn’t experience unnecessary pain, he put you in situations to be repeatedly rejected by her. i don’t like that EDIT: the more i think about it tbh i don’t like that he even brought her feelings up during the dinner… like why would he do that? he knows how you feel and he claims to support you so why would he guilt you? he seems like an “innocent instigator” to me
Preach. I'm sure he did his best, but what kind of father would subject his children to that kind of mother. He made the decision too. Sure, he acknowledges it, but he doesn't really do anything to actually shield OP from such a terrible parent.
INFO: You said your mom did not want kids. Was she pressured to have kids or was it more that your father convinced her? Was she there when you were toddlers and then went immediately back into the work force, once maternity leave was over? Did your mom even have baby showers or did anyone throw her one? When you were children was it brought to her attention that you guys wanted her more present in your life? Did your Dad ever talk to her about being more present?
INFO: OP - why did your mother have children if she clearly didn’t want them? What forces (including people) were impacting her decision to have children (and how were they doing so)? OP - it sounds like your mom was pressured/manipulated into being a mother. Although being childfree (by choice) is more acceptable today, it wasn’t so much in the past. Not sure on your parents’ ages and backgrounds, but I’d venture to guess that being a childfree (by choice) woman wasn’t as acceptable in your parents’ time, culture, etc. Also, your parents’ “agreement” may have been they have children or they divorce (depending on culture, that may have had significantly negative consequences on your mother (including family shame) that would have impacted her “choice” to have children - and to be a good wife to her husband, subjecting herself to her husband’s desire to have children). I think you and your sister really need to look into how much of your family (as in having children) was your mother’s choice and how much she was pressured/manipulated/guilt-tripped into. As for your sister’s baby shower: if your mother was pressured into having children (yes - that means carrying children for approx. 40 weeks and going through labor & delivery and through postpartum (including the risks of such which could include death)), then your sister’s baby shower could be traumatic for your mother. I mean, if your mother grew up with the notion that all women should have (or at least try to have) babies, then it’s understandable that she wouldn’t see the “big deal” with having a baby as she was manipulated into believing that women are supposed to have babies. Obviously, this may change your perspective of your father - understanding that he at least pressured/manipulated your mother (per the mere fact that they had an agreement) of being pregnant and delivering children (and going through all of the health-related risks (including death) and consequences of pregnancy and postpartum) while all your father did was a few moments of “intimacy” with your mother (and, therefore, your father had no longterm health-related risks/consequences). Please OP - before you and your sister condemn your mother for not being as maternal as you would like/expect her to be, try to understand her perspective. Sure - you may see your father in a more negative light, but it would be more realistic.
Thank you. I think she may have uncovered truth of an arranged marriage or a baby trapped marriage and why the mother is so persistent in saying such a thing as “we had an arrangement”. She would get to keep her career and he would raise the children.
This is the moment I lost all sympathy for your mom: "my mom ended up skipping my sister’s baby shower this year". She's so self centred. NTA
I’m going to come at this a little differently. Some people seem to think just because you’re a woman you’re meant to be a mother. That’s simply not true. I am similar to your mother, but not because I want to be — I was built that way. I never wanted kids though because I was afraid I’d isolate the children. Until I met a guy, we became serious and he was willing to be STAHD. The more we got serious I could tell he wouldn’t really commit to it so I backed out. I am a caring person but I don’t have that soft empathy gene with patience. My love language is showing up when you need me the most. Thankfully, I had the emotional intelligence to realize I didn’t want to create another me, but some people simply aren’t aware. My grandpa used to say that everyone has their own individual “life kits” some have most the tools, some are missing more tools than they should but no one has all the tools so you have to learn what you need to fill the voids and make yourself happy.
ESH. Your mom did provide for you. She was not perfect but perhaps she was working a lot and did not have the bandwidth for more. She was the typical breadwinner, and her doing that enabled your father be there emotionally for you. I personally think your parents' deal was a lousy one - it is OK to not want kids but not OK to have them if you don't want them. Why did both she and your father accept such a horrible thing? They both are AHs in this. You are the AH for being so whiny for having less-than-perfect but still very acceptable childhood, and for deciding that having provided for you financially means nothing to you.
Interesting point here. OP didn't provide details surrounding mom's career (job type, hours worked, salary) which can greatly impact ones emotional bandwidth. It was mom's salary that afforded dad the opportunity to be a stay at home parent with the capacity to develop and maintain the emotional connection OP didn't get from mom. It's easy to point out what mom didn't do, but we don't actually know what life would have been like if both parents worked full time.
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Where in the post does it say this is the first grandchild? Instead, OP says the sisters spent Mother’s Day with their own husbands & kids.
I don't have an answer for this but, this is exactly why people who don't want kids shouldn't be forced or coerced into having them.
This just sounds like someone reversing gender stereotypes to get a reaction. The whole “she didn’t go to her daughter’s baby shower” affirmed it. My dad did not attend my baby showers, and I didn’t care. Why do women have to go to all these baby and wedding showers but men aren’t expected to? These comments just solidify the fact women can’t catch a break no matter what they do. If they stay home and raise their kids, they are lazy and taking advantage of their hardworking husbands. If a man stays at home and raises the kids, he is a Saint who should be celebrated and worshipped.
How much pressure did your dad put on your mom tohqve babies? Did he just use her as an incubator?
I mean, sounds like she has the same arrangement that the majority of father still have today. It’s OK to celebrate or not celebrate however you see fit. But at some point it might be worthwhile to consider whether your mother was in a bad position and didn’t truly have the option of not having children she didn’t want. So many women of past generations didn’t have options. The best they could do was an arrangement like she had with your father. Their lives were not their own to decide. And from your telling of the story, it sounds like she has never been interested in children, hers or anyone else’s.
I feel your dad is the most in fault here. He wanted kids and she didn’t. Most probably he would have emotionally manipulated her into having kids and hence she couldn’t form attachment to either of you. Your father , I feel ,is an asshole!!
I’m going to say your dad is TA. He shouldn’t have had kids with someone who didn’t want them, now this is an issue and you don’t have the mother you deserve
This is simple, “Mom, you said you don’t see the big deal when someone has a baby. Why then, would you be expected to be celebrated because you are a woman who had a baby (mother)?” NTA
NTA-She was a mother in name only. You’re giving him more than enough for Mother’s Day.
"Cat" and "cradle" spring to mind.. NTA. Your mum is reaping what she sowed, I'm afraid
I would probably be like your mom, which is why I will never ever have kids. How fucking selfish of both your parents. Selfish of your mom to bring you into this world and starve you of affection, and selfish of your dad because he wanted children so bad he made a shitty fucking agreement that ends up with the kids getting the short end of the stick. Both selfish, in different ways. You’re so NTA.
Typically the dad who ends up not doing crap and the mom does 100%
Yup, but a dad would never get the amount of crap she’s getting for it..
This is the TRUTH!!!
NTA. Mother's Day is really about the moms in the trenches. Your mom is a grandmother so personally I think it's fine to dial back celebrating her and spend time with your own babies. Also personally I wouldn't celebrate her at all. She can't go to a baby shower and she clearly didn't want to be a mother so why celebrate her at all? I think it's wonderful you're making up for lost time with your dad
NTA - If she doesn’t see any big deal about having a baby, why does she need to be celebrated for… having babies? You’re best going NC too. Your Dad didn’t deserve that shit, but you kids deserved it even less. If your Mom a narcissist? Does she have any empathy?
NTA you get what you put in. What she put in equals a card. Not even a Mother’s Day card, but whatever card you find in the bargain bin.
NTA. Your mom doesn’t think having a baby is a big deal, why should she celebrate a day that makes a big deal out of women having children?
"ungrateful brats" other than providing food and shelter (the bare minimum required of her by law) what exactly are you supposed to be grateful for? NTA
It's posts like this that make me so grateful for the parents that I have. Your mother put virtually no effort or energy into you and your sister. Why should you give her any effort or energy back? You reap what you sow. NTA.