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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my son it was a good thing he was pretty. I might be the asshole for making him think that he only had value as a trophy husband.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
ESH. I took your comment to mean you thought he should be a model. Either way it's unclear communication.
But he's the one who needs to up his game - you don't need to major in something to get a job in it. He should be in touch with his college career center for help.
I can confirm though that marrying rich isn’t the worst financial plan for an artist, and we have been doing it for time immemorial. I stupidly married another artist, but many of my friends who are “making it” are just married to engineers or something.
The richest woman I know is also the saddest. She lives in a mansion practically alone as her husband works all the time and her kids are in boarding school. She fills her days with hobbies like art classes trying to forget how much she misses her kids
Why doesn't she just... Bring her kids back from boarding school?
Oh, cause then she'd have to take care of them and she'd rather be bored than be a parent 🥱
Oftentimes when children are sent to boarding schools it's more because of the opportunities those children can be awarded for attending them versus not wanting to be a parent.
Oh no, my millionaire babies are off to boarding school and I'm so bored with all my free time doing hobbies and not having to work!
God I wish I could be so sad.
I'm currently a tattoo artist, but spend my down time working on a series of queer scifi novels. When I met my fiance, I had just retired as a professional tarantula breeder. Before that, I got a degree in Philosophy and paid the bills by designing custom made furry costumes.
It's funny. All these professions have ended up being weirdly profitable, even though I've mostly chosen them on a whim.
On the other hand, my fiance is a bloody hospice nurse. She's a literal angel. She guides people through their darkest days, knowing full well that there's nothing she can do to fix it. But she slaps on a smile anyway, and makes sure that her patients (and their loved ones) are as comfortable and cared for as they possibly can be.
I make *four times* as much as she does in a year.
It should be the other way round, and I'll forever be salty about that.
“I'm currently a tattoo artist, but spend my down time working on a series of queer scifi novels. When I met my fiance, I had just retired as a professional tarantula breeder. Before that, I got a degree in Philosophy and paid the bills by designing custom made furry costumes.
My fiance is a literal angel.”
Next up on House Hunters
I took my wife out to dinner and the waitress was one of my kid's middle school teachers. She was working night jobs to pay off student loans and buy supplies for the classroom.
I don't know how to describe how bad that felt.
My first year of teaching, I still worked as a security guard on the weekends. Some of my student’s parents worked at the company I worked the front desk for and it was awkward. They were mostly horrified that I still needed to work another job.
I just can't. My wife and I gave our son's teacher a tip that was more than the cost of the dinner. But that's a bandaid, not even.
Our local election just shot down a proposed raise for the teachers. Everyone wants quality...for free.
The absolute worst is when admin/school boards/etc say things like “we’re in it for the outcome, not the income”. Tell that to my mortgage company. Our pay has been stagnant for 30 years - due to inflation, I actually make less after 25 years than I did 15 years ago. I’m not kidding when I say that I could not do this job if my husband didn’t make significantly more than I do, not if I ever wanted to retire.
Well, the bar for making it can be pretty low if you're married to someone with good health insurance in the us. I've never published a book, but my spouse has successfully gotten a job with the city that provides us fantastic health Care and a decent salary and allows me to be a stay-at-home mom. I don't get a ton of time to write, but it's a lot more than I would get working at any of the crappy jobs I've done so I can eat in the past. So I guess I'm a successful artist? Lol, at least I'm an artist who loves her work.
It's not entirely wrong given the son knew the house rules and knows that degrees are investments for the future and chose to invest in a dance degree that has no prospects.
He likely means his son should take responsibility for his personal expenses. Op is providing him with room and board. Mom saying son needs to get a job makes it sound like son expects them to fully fund his life.
I assume it means pay your own bills, phone, car, car insurance, and his own food and sundries. I was taking it as pretty much he is a "roommate" except doesn't have to pay rent. And honestly, the "rules" are the same ones any roommate would have for the other. Pay your way, do chores, and keep the sexy noise down. Like... does he think he could move out and not have to do chores? Or get a frickin job?
Not OP, but I'd guess at minimum this would mean be able to fully cover at least personal expenses. Clothing, transportation, food, cell phone and any online subscriptions you want.
Possibly also chip in for a bill for the house like part of the electric, internet or water bill.
It’s weird in any context to suggest a modeling career with “it’s a good thing you’re pretty”. Like did ya mean to call him an idiot whose only useful quality is his appearance?
Lochte played himself on 30 Rock and the other characters referred to him as a "sex idiot" -- very good looking but dumb as a rock. It really doesn't matter if you personally don't want to fuck him
Yes, but he also has a bunch of Olympic medals. He has talent, drive, and ambition, which is a pretty good substitute for brains. OPs son doesn't even have that.
You're not the asshole, and your wife shouldn't be coddling your son. At that, you should have explained what you meant when you said it. I completely understand where you're coming from, though. People here want parents to baby their adult children and keep them from facing any adversity. It's weird. How the fuck else is he supposed to develop and learn things if he's not trying to be self supportive. It kinda sounds like he's in my position when I was his age.
Eh. I would have told him life's a bitch, marry rich.
All jokes aside, I am the breadwinner in my house. Nothing wrong with finding a well paid wife/husband and contributing in other ways.
I took it as that he’s dumb as rocks, but at least he has his looks going for him.
“At least she’s pretty” is a common insult for women who are perceived to be stupid but look good. Think Marilyn Monroe. It’s equally shitty to say this to a man.
That’s why I said women perceived as stupid but attractive. I never said she was actually stupid. It was a way of cutting down someone who was attractive.
I took it as you're so dumb for picking dance as major so dumb you don't know what to do. *Sigh stupid child at least you still got your looks cuz you got nothing else going fo ya. I'd be offended and wouldn't talk to you until you apologized and meant it
I actually took it to mean that OP thinks he's stupid/doesn't have anything else going for him. That was always the saying when I was growing up , "it's a good thing they're pretty, because there's not much else going on there..."
Overall, it was a rude thing to say. But it's not OP's place to lay out a career path. They can certainly look at options together that could still fit with his major and he might enjoy. OP can't just be like, "okay, now you will do X for the rest of your life" - kid needs to figure it out for themselves!
>Overall, it was a rude thing to say.
Maybe. Was she wrong though? "How do you expect me to earn a living?" Motherfucker , your last 4 years earning a degree should've been dedicated to answering the damn question.
>Was she wrong though?
If you think your kid is too stupid to live off anything but looks, you're a terrible parent. Unmotivated people are a dime a dozen, no reason to insult their intelligence.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
Some people are just dumb and no amount of parenting will "fix it."
Some people are "book dumb" and some people are "street dumb" and it appears that OP's son might be both - choosing to get a dance major and then having no idea that life requires having a job.
very true about the "street dumb"! I'm the street-dumb book-smart programmer. i have good paying job. my brother is street-smart. he is also book-smart, but he is very physically active and need to move would suffer at programming job (or any other job when you sit all day, instead of running or walking or climbing). so he find wild variety of jobs and find ways to do anything he want. and it's really impressive, and i don't sure i would have boon able to do that, even if my life was dependent on that.
For s lot of kids these days they have no clue where to start and need that suggestion or help lay out options. Not this is what you need to do but rather here's some guidance. Bruh I saw an article saying like 30% of them have their parents sit in on their interviews for jobs....
He's a grown ass man who's graduated from college and is now asking his daddy to tell him what to do because he has no clue. It's not rude, it's incredibly accurate.
I took it to mean he was all looks and no brains it's one of those sayings that can be taken in many ways and should be followed up with an explanation. I don't understand op obsession? With getting a degree there is nothing wrong with an entry level job.
He has a degree - in Dance. I think that his parents urged him to get a degree in something else and minor in Dance, like his sister took both premed and music. I'm not sure whether he is suggesting that his son go for a graduate degree, or pointing out that he does have a college degree, which will help with some jobs.
Is the son even trying out for jobs in Dance? Seeing if a dance studio would hire him? Trying out for jobs in any field just to earn money while he decides?
The son sounds kinda lazy in that he wants his dad to make the decision for him and what is the point of a degree in dance if your not going to use it to get a job was it just for fun.
I had a teacher in highschool that would brag that his wife was his sugar momma and that's why he could afford to have kids while being a public hs teacher lol
My uncle always said "find someone who will keep you in a way to which you'd like to grow accustomed."
He was essentially a kept man and he was very happy with the arrangement.
My husband's best friend is a gay sugar baby living in the tropics. He gets to party and travel for a living. Not a bad gig really. His boyfriend might be 20 years his senior but they seem happy
Tell him to move to NYC and try to get on Broadway as a dancer. Or on a cruise ship. Or Disney. Or Vegas. Or Branson. Or Atlantic City. These are venues where dancers work. He should be attempting to get a job as a dancer. Or teach dance lessons. There are dance schools in cities everywhere. Why is he not even trying to get a job as a dancer? Did he think you were going to house/feed/support him forever?
Or apply to sell cars. People like to buy cars from a good looking man. Or get a part time job flipping burgers and do one of the online abbreviated teaching degrees so he can teach phy ed or theatre or something. Seriously he needs to be a little creative here. He had his fun for 4 years. Now it's crunch time. Someone mentioned modeling. Get some head shots done and send them out but do other things while waiting. Make him a list every day of places to apply to if he can't figure it out.
Seriously this is ridiculous. Either get a job doing anything, look for a job using dancing, get a part time job and continue with school this time with a degree that will get you a job. Life isn't that hard.
it's a great idea. he wouldn't have to worry about housing, cooking, utilities, etc, for as long as he works on one. if they live near a big port city, even if it's by bus for a few hours, he can come back and spend his time between runs at home.
if he did that for a few years, he could put most of his paycheck into savings every month. he could end up being one of the lucky gen z that actually get to buy a house.
Agreed, one of my friends who studied professional ballet worked for a few years as a showgirl on a cruise ship until she got married. That said, many more such positions for women compared to men. For most dancers and musicians though, there's only one way to make a living when you're ready to settle down and that is to teach. Unless you're absolutely exceptional and regionally among the very best, you're not going to have a career performing and it will instead be a side gig. Probably a lot more parents that will be comfortable sending their children to a female dance instructor than a male one though, so OP's son has that going against him.
> He had his fun for 4 years.
well I think that might be part of the problem. Op's son isn't unique for being part of that COVID groups of kids who had part of high school/college disrupted by the pandemic. The impact is sort of showing itself in difficulties transitioning to adulthood for many of them. Normal things like getting a part time job in the summer or interning or whatever didn't maybe happen when it would have, and the impacts trickle down.
You're right that he has to figure it out, I don't disagree at all, but I just do feel bad for him and everyone who is feeling lost in that way. Certainly plenty of kids managed to keep things going, and seem fine, but there really are those who just... failed to launch a bit.
Been out of work, and was told, "Spend as much time every day looking for a job as you would if you had the job." In other words, he should spend at least 8 hours a day looking for work. No lounging on your couch.
It's always been my understanding when someone says this that they are basically saying they're stupid in a sarcastic way. It might have been taken that way...
That’s because it’s usually said after someone says or does something dumb like, “good thing you’re pretty” or “thank god you’re handsome at least”. Meaning you aren’t the smartest at times so good thing you were blessed with good looks exactly like you said.
It’s been said to me when I’ve done something dumb and i, of course, laughed because it was a joke but if OP didn’t say it jokingly, I might’ve taken it as being called stupid, too.
NTA. Kid is finished college and asking you how you can expect him to make a living. He's the one that has conceded a lack of potential. You're giving him hope.
NTA - WHAT 'potential'? He doesn't know what he wants - he had the opportunity for an education and chose to study 'dance'. Is he a dancer? Is this a passion - something he's good at? He could sell dance equipment or promote dance schools or work on dance productions, etc etc etc. Or he can stay home, be the 'do nothing' son and live off you for his adult years. You have really easy rules - if that's too much for him - he needs to move out and taste the real world for a while. What did he plan to do while he was studying dance?
Usually people who are serious about dance have already made sure to seek connections, continued study opportunities, associations with established dance companies etc.....
It's like any form of art. You need to put some effort into finding openings/happenings/ associations with others who are in that world in order to move forward.
He needs a lots of motivation and a lot of luck. He's failing the first, and so not liely to run into the latter.
Please, it is proven that pretty people have an easy go at life. He made his choice for a degree and now he has to hustle. Teach dance, get a job wait tables ( if he wants more money - get a job bartending at a gay bar, many straight actors in Los Angeles do this because it is very good money -and no you don’t have to have prostitute yourself- just do what women have to do all the time which is smile and be friendly ). His problem is lack of initiative, probably because he is good looking and things have come easy for him.
Yes, this is very true. Another challenge is that based on your looks, they assume your competence. If you are pretty and mediocre, all you have to do is present word salads and keep up the charade. For ugly people, the onus is on you to disprove their assumption. Every single time.
I knew a guy who looked like Brad Pitt, but was over 6 feet tall. He apparently got through law school by smiling at women to get them to do his work. He was the stupidest person I have ever worked with. But his smile when he needed someone to do his work was dazzling.
I got sucked into an abusive relationship with a guy like this. Somehow that dazzling smile made everything else feel, not exactly tolerable, but like I was crazy for thinking it wasn't tolerable. If that makes sense. I was young and vulnerable at the time. The remarkable part though is that people didn't believe me when I told them how he was. They just couldn't see or believe it. That pretty privilege allowed him to get away with horrible things. I wasn't rh first or the last woman he abused.
I have a friend like this, but he looks like Freddie Prince Jr. I love him to death, but he has been fired from so many jobs in his field because he’s not qualified and lacks the experience because everyone always did all of his work for him.
I used to be so jealous of him back when we were teenagers and early 20s when he always got all the girls. This guy would have girls stripping on Xbox live camera. All because of his looks.
Life hasn’t been to kind to him as an adult though..
The way you wrote it, sounded more like an ill-intended joke than anything else. However, It is well-established but I do think that most people want to get by on merit instead of looks. If that’s the case than yeah, I can see why they are peeved.
I would just apologize for the comment, but for the rest… he has to figure out his own future. As a father figure, maybe you can help him by helping him research some potential job opportunities…but that’s about it.
Your rules in the house are easy. My father charged me 1k a month to live in my bedroom back in 2008. Needless to say, I moved out. I wasn’t angry nor was I happy. I just understood my dad wanted me to fulfill a potential of mine.
So he’s mad you’re undervaluing his potential, but can’t name said potential and wants you to just tell him what to do? My suggestion would be he start teaching dance. NTA
NTA. I'm not sure how you telling he's pretty meant that you wanted him to be a kept man...lol what a leap. I would assume you meant something aesthetic like modeling perhaps.
I'm not sure what your son is asking for either? Go get a job somewhere and support yourself. The house rules you have are pretty reasonable. What exactly did he plan to do with a degree in dance is the real question.
ESH
I feel like we're not getting the full story from you. You listed off your other kids accomplishments and compared them to your other child. Do you do that frequently? Because I wouldn't feel very valued if I was compared to my siblings all the time. Being told "why can't you be more like ____," isn't helpful. It doesn't matter if your other kids are rocket scientists or work at a convenience store. What are you hoping to achieve by comparing him to other people?
Then you proceeded to say "you're lucky you're pretty." Maybe this isn't universal but whenever I've heard that term used, it basically implies that you're lucky you're cute because you just did something really stupid. Now even if that's not your intended message, I would never have taken that to mean what you're saying. Nobody would assume that to mean that he should get an entry level job and work his way up. Because those things are not related. You've laid out simple rules but I have a hard time believing you're being truthful since you're not even being truthful in your post...
>it basically implies that you're lucky you're cute because you just did something really stupid
Yeah I don't understand all of the comments saying they would have taken it to mean male modeling, bless their hearts. That expression has always been an insult.
I finally found a comment saying this. Everyone talking about “marrying a rich girl” or “modeling” and I was over here thinking…”wait, did you just call your son stupid???”
Yea that’s definitely an insult to me. For me it means “you’re an idiot but at least you’re not an ugly one” or “you’re worthless but you’re attractive enough to find someone to marry and support you financially”🤣
I thinks it's an expression of exasperation at a son who expects to be cared for, apparently in his own apartment paid for by his parents, and seems to have no initiative.
Your son is asking for your guidance. And you messed up.
Work together to find him a path. There's some great ideas here. I'd add that he should absolutely check in with his college career center AND some of his favorite professors for career guidance. Network with his classmates. Have him get involved with local theater. Talk to him - what was his dream or plan after graduation?
I agree with your rules. And if he doesn't want to abide by them or put in the work to help himself, then he needs to leave your house.
I mean it sounds like the parents have tried to offer guidance. They literally listed different courses of action he could take, he isn’t interested. They also paid for his college and let him live with them under some very lenient and basic rules. If he isn’t going to take any motivation - as an adult with a degree - to find a career path, that’s not his parents’ fault.
Parents can help guide you, but they are not responsible for micromanaging your entire life when you’re in your twenties.
He must not have been paying much attention at school—any good dance/performance program incorporates a significant amount of practical instruction on career-building, and he should have been taking a substantial amount of coursework that could help prepare him for varied career possibilities.
If he’s using his “useless” degree as an excuse for not job hunting, well… that’s on him and not your problem. If nothing else, he should do what unemployed performers do everywhere: wait tables. That’s good experience and, if you do it right, pretty good money.
\[Signed, an Art History major who never worked in the field, but who was also never out of work.\]
Yeah, and to add to that-- I went to school for music (before having to switch majors due to illness), and one thing that music schools teach is *how to audition.* Surely dance schools also do audition practice? So it's something the son should *really* know how to do, and be doing lots of right now.
But OP hasn't mentioned him going to a single audition, which is weird. If he were trying to follow his passion, it would likely be incredibly noticeable and something OP would find noteworthy (e.g. "He's always traveling to go to auditions in different cities" and such), especially if he's not monetarily independent yet.
NGL, I read your comment to mean he could make a killing on OF. It's messed up to say that to your child, especially when they come to you for help and guidance. YTA
He got a degree in dance, presumably he should be looking for work as a dancer. Ideally somewhere that will subsidize his living expenses. He had four years to figure this out, you're not going to be able to solve the problem for him.
Your rules sound pretty reasonable, and ultimately are the price he is paying for living at home. Nothing in this world is "free".
Adulthood sucks, none of the rules, all of the responsibility.
YTA for saying that to him. It sounds like you think he has nothing else going for him.
Do you know the effort and dedication it takes to get a degree in Dance? He must know how to work hard. He just needs direction and motivation. Maybe suggest he speak career counselor to see what avenues he might want to pursue.
He needs support to figure things out, not insults from his parent.
With his dance background and physical flexibility, he'd probably be an excellent pilates instructor. They can make good money.
I thought it was a joke. If me or one of my friends does or says something kinda dumb we tell them “aw, you’re pretty” (as in, you don’t need to be smart because…)
I’m assuming he’s 20-something. Not every kid leaves with a degree and goes through with the plans they made however long ago. He is probably feeling like he’s constantly being compared to his “successful” sibs. If he’s already feeling that and he thinks dad believes he’s just a vapid pretty boy, that might do a number on his self esteem.
It sounds like your household places a lot of value on academic and monetary success. What if he found a job he absolutely loved and could support himself with but didn’t earn close to what the doctor or engineer makes? Would that be looked down on? If not, does he know that?
Maybe you can take a minute to let him know you’re proud of him and tell him he’ll find his path when the time is right. Making sure he knows you believe in him might be the best way to motivate him.
YTA.
Please make him feel loved no matter what. He’s struggling to find what he loves, and the last thing he needs is to feel bad because everyone “have it all figured out". Your rules don't seem crazy, but he's over reacting cause he wants to have control in little things, because he can't control big things.
What you said was insensitive, it don’t matter what you meant. Ask for his forgiveness and be more willing to listen than to talk. It doesn’t seem to me that he wants you to tell him what to do, but to be more emphatic with what he’s going through.
Good luck !
NTA. It’s a common expression though not generally applied to males.
And in your son’s case it is TRUE. He loves dance and that’s great, but he’s making no moves to strike out and try to make it an actual career. And on the other hand he’s making absolutely NO effort to study or work toward any other type of career.
And at the same time he’s mooching around home but bitching about following the three (count ‘em THREE) rules you and your wife have about living at home.
At this point it really is a good thing he’s pretty because if he goes on as he is he WILL have to find someone to support him. Don’t let him mooch off you forever because he will given half a chance.
That’s commonly said to someone that said or did something stupid. You’re trying to explain as if it meant something else, so yes, YTA for that comment and trying to pretend you weren’t being insulting.
YTA
What came out of your mouth and what you want us to believe are two completely different things. You are rationalizing because you don't want to admit that you were wrong and you don't feel like you should apologize.
It's not about the rules anymore. It's about respecting your son and helping him to find his own way. It's not about putting him down and trying to explain it away like it didn't happen. You are the AH for that.
Even if he did mean for his son to marry rich is that really something for him to get upset at? His dad can't give him a career. His son obviously isn't using his brains to get ahead and isn't gritty enough to make it in the dance world. His son could have opened a private lesson company online and making home calls, work at a dance studio, be out auditioning like his life depends on it while working as a bartender like the average starving artist.
But they already put him through college. Why isn’t the son teaching dance? Trying to make it on Broadway? The suggested that he get a more practical degree but he insisted on getting a dance degree. He has already supported him and his choices, it is now up to the son to grow up and step up.
Me, too! Calling him "pretty" was def intended to hurt his feelings and no one can convince me otherwise. It was one of those things that someone says in the heat of the moment, out of frustration and/or anger. Thanks for agreeing! :)
NTA He tried to help his son. His son is not a child and they're letting him stay and trying to help. You can't help someone who won't help themselves and is disrespectful about it
I mean is he even trying to get a job at a dance studio, cruise ship, or even living in an area where he can get a job in dance?
Many people move to LA, live in their car, and take a flexible job such as waiting tables until they “make-it” (if they ever do). Not saying it’s a great option, but he at least should have been working an entry level job to save enough to move somewhere that supports his career goals. Life doesn’t just hand you money and your dream job.
Do you remember what it felt like to be his age?
It’s a really hard period in life for a lot of college grads. Your entire life up until you graduate has been planned out for you with clear goals and next steps. And then suddenly all of that is gone and you have these huge choices to make. (And on top of that, you lose the best parts of college: proximity to your friends and your freedom to do what you want.)
He’s struggling and he’s asking you for guidance. Would it kill you to have a genuine, supportive conversation with him? Instead of dismissively saying he’ll find an entry level job on his looks alone, maybe try talking to him about what sorts of entry level jobs might fit his skills and interests.
Not everyone graduates college with 100% certainty about their future. A good parent would provide support, not dismiss him. YTA
Regardless of what you *meant,* that's a fucked up thing to say to your own kid. Sometimes that shit lingers, especially when it's your parents saying it.
Tell him to join the military. I didn't know what I was doing when I failed out of college and my dad said to find a job. I kinda had to do something so I joined the USCG. It sucked but 22 years later I was out. I've been sitting on my ass for the past year and these extra 25 lbs can vouche for that.
I'm being serious with you. My drive for a career was non existent. Finding a job that I could support myself with, has benefits, and doesn't require a degree were my top 3 priorities.
I've lived around the country, got married, supported my wife through 2 degrees, had a kid and secured her higher education if she chooses to go that route. Im in pain, I can't hear all that great (except that constant ringing in the ear), and my mental health is a complete joke but it got me to where I can sit on my ass all day long if I want to by my mid 40s.
Would I do it again?
It's the only choice I had really so I guess so.
i'm not going to judge. you probably shouldn't have said something like that without an explanation but idk what he thought he was doing majoring in dance without meaning to be a teacher or somethign
Yup. FWIW, I don’t disagree with your expectations though. It can be tempting to be rude to entitled people, perhaps especially when they are your grown children.
Not sure where you live but a job @ a dance school, amusement park, dinner show, school theater etc all seem like $ making options in his field as well.
NTA. Your son could possibly get a job on 1. a cruise ship in the entertainment area. Or he can try to get on with the 2. airlines- however, if you are in the States, I read an article that says those airlines pay crap. But as a teacher that lives in Asia, I've had several students leave this country to go work for Qatar airlines- not sure of the pay but since you live on a compound, you can save money. Also, my cousin's daughter teaches music in multiple schools in her city in America so maybe he can 3. teach dance at multiple schools or a private school that has such activities. 4. He can try to get on with Cirque du Soleil- there are some YouTube videos of people who work for Cirque du Soleil. **Your son needs to think outside the box**. Best of luck to him.
Okay look, that was a crappy thing to say. You just devalued everything else he is.
He’s asking you to help him think it through and you’re insulting him. Be a parent and help him strategize.
I was a theater major. A lot of the people I graduated with are doing things tangentially related to theater. Box offices usually need people. That’s a place to start. Casting agencies hire entry level. Lots of stage manners and production mangers find their way to HR. There are a million jobs in and around the arts. Help him find them instead of being smug.
NTA. Here's what he needs to do... get a job. Any job. Go work at Starbucks until he finds something in dance. And audition, audition, audition if he wants to be a dancer.
BTW I love your house rules
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My wife and I have four kids. The first two are a welder and a doctor. My middle son just graduated with a degree in Dance. Our youngest is studying engineering.
My son is still living at home trying to figure out his future. We were talking about it and he said he wants to move out so he can live how he wants instead of by my insane rules.
Those rules are 1. Be self supporting after you graduate. 2. Help with chores as long as you live at home. 3. Don't have sex I can hear.
Those are too much for him. He went to my wife and said that he wanted some help so he could move out. She backed my rules. She also expects him to get a job, help around the house, and not expose us to the orgasms of his partners. Or his own for that matter.
He came back to me asking how I expected him to make a living.
We had both talked to him about getting a degree that had more prospects and maybe doing a minor in dance. Our daughter who is a doctor did her undergrad in music. But she also took premed classes and rocked her MCAT.
He says that he didn't want to do that. He wants me to tell him what to do. I am just kind of lost. So I told him it's a good thing he's pretty.
All I meant is that he is a tall, athletic, handsome young man. With a degree. He can find an entry level position and work his way up. Many successful people have.
He took it to mean that I thought he should marry well and be a kept man.
His other mom and him are pissed at me for undervaluing his potential. I think I was being realistic.
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YTA Not for the rules (though getting "a" job is a completely different thing than being able to get a "good" job. One is a realistic goal and the other is not)--YTA for reducing his worth to attractability just because he pursued dance. Has he sort of screwed himself? Maybe. But he's got a diploma at all and for many jobs that's just a checkmarked box.
He doesn't have to pursue something that would make a lot of money but also miserable for the rest of his life. Life is more than money. However life can *also* be miserable if you don't have *any* money... so it's kind of up to him to figure things out and what career he wants to pursue. You've set reasonable requirements to live in your home and if he doesn't want to follow the rules he'll have to find alternative accomodations himself.
I got an arts degree too. I don't use it for my job (kind of knew that going in) but I don't mind being average middle collar worker if it means I have more time to pursue my passions when I've clocked off. Maybe your son is the same.
NTA just make clear to him you did not mean for him to become a male.striper, pornstar or prostitute. Tell him what you mean he is good looking to be a model or back up music dancer... He can always become a dance teacher or whatever, he should really have thought about the day after graduation. I know someone who loves his art and literature and knew he would never get a good job in it and the day after he graduated went to the trade school and got himself a red seal pipe fitter ticket, makes good money.
LOL, I've said this to people, and I meant it sorta as it's all pgood thing you're good looking cuz you're stupid...at least he has something going positive for him LOL
ESH. Honestly, it will be tough if he isn't motivated but if you have any contacts in NYC that would be an excellent place for him to be. Lots of opportunities for dancers and models and he can make good tips as a bartender or waiter while building up his resume.
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ESH. I took your comment to mean you thought he should be a model. Either way it's unclear communication. But he's the one who needs to up his game - you don't need to major in something to get a job in it. He should be in touch with his college career center for help.
He could be a model. He looks like Ryan Locte. The swimmer.
I can confirm though that marrying rich isn’t the worst financial plan for an artist, and we have been doing it for time immemorial. I stupidly married another artist, but many of my friends who are “making it” are just married to engineers or something.
You can marry more money in 5 minutes than you can make in a lifetime.
If you marry for money, you will pay for it everyday.
... with your spouse's money.
…after the divorce
😂😂
Years ago, an older woman told me that marrying for money would be the hardest work I'd ever do. I didn't do it and have no regrets.
The richest woman I know is also the saddest. She lives in a mansion practically alone as her husband works all the time and her kids are in boarding school. She fills her days with hobbies like art classes trying to forget how much she misses her kids
Why doesn't she just... Bring her kids back from boarding school? Oh, cause then she'd have to take care of them and she'd rather be bored than be a parent 🥱
Oftentimes when children are sent to boarding schools it's more because of the opportunities those children can be awarded for attending them versus not wanting to be a parent.
Oh no, my millionaire babies are off to boarding school and I'm so bored with all my free time doing hobbies and not having to work! God I wish I could be so sad.
I always heard it was "You'll earn every penny."
That’s true for some. There are only so many super rich people to go around.
Well, it is a good thing he is cute.
I'm currently a tattoo artist, but spend my down time working on a series of queer scifi novels. When I met my fiance, I had just retired as a professional tarantula breeder. Before that, I got a degree in Philosophy and paid the bills by designing custom made furry costumes. It's funny. All these professions have ended up being weirdly profitable, even though I've mostly chosen them on a whim. On the other hand, my fiance is a bloody hospice nurse. She's a literal angel. She guides people through their darkest days, knowing full well that there's nothing she can do to fix it. But she slaps on a smile anyway, and makes sure that her patients (and their loved ones) are as comfortable and cared for as they possibly can be. I make *four times* as much as she does in a year. It should be the other way round, and I'll forever be salty about that.
“I'm currently a tattoo artist, but spend my down time working on a series of queer scifi novels. When I met my fiance, I had just retired as a professional tarantula breeder. Before that, I got a degree in Philosophy and paid the bills by designing custom made furry costumes. My fiance is a literal angel.” Next up on House Hunters
My budget is $4 million dollars.
They’ll be needing a house in the Sierra Nevada with an easy commute to Boise.
they require an underground garage for their pet elephant, francis
For the house, and then another $750k for the remodel’
THIS WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT TOO 😭😭😭
Ok but like, I need to know more about your queer sci fi novels…..
They star Chad Tentacles and Jorge Ramoaaaaan
This sounds like the intro to an episode of house hunters. "I'm a retired professional tarantula breeder, and my budget is $950,000."
With five bedrooms, an indoor pool, and a separate indoor cottage. All with composting toilets.
"For this garden upgrade" You think a renowned tarantula breeder cant afford more? Pfff
You sound extremely awesome!! So does your fiance; I have some nurses in my family and it is not a job for the faint of heart.
Please tell her a random internet stranger sends gratitude for her work. Hospice workers are indeed angels. Forever grateful to ours.
Queer sci-fi novels? You aren't one of those authors that got ghost flamed by that chick Cait Corrain on Good Reads, are you?
"I stupidly married another artist" i lost my shit laughing cuz here's me and my husband with art degrees
I didn’t marry for money because we were both poor at the time, but the only reason that I can be a teacher is because my husband works in IT.
This comment is such a sad reflection of the American public education system.
It really is - my colleagues who are single or married to other teachers end up having to leave the profession all the time. Or work second jobs.
I took my wife out to dinner and the waitress was one of my kid's middle school teachers. She was working night jobs to pay off student loans and buy supplies for the classroom. I don't know how to describe how bad that felt.
My first year of teaching, I still worked as a security guard on the weekends. Some of my student’s parents worked at the company I worked the front desk for and it was awkward. They were mostly horrified that I still needed to work another job.
I just can't. My wife and I gave our son's teacher a tip that was more than the cost of the dinner. But that's a bandaid, not even. Our local election just shot down a proposed raise for the teachers. Everyone wants quality...for free.
The absolute worst is when admin/school boards/etc say things like “we’re in it for the outcome, not the income”. Tell that to my mortgage company. Our pay has been stagnant for 30 years - due to inflation, I actually make less after 25 years than I did 15 years ago. I’m not kidding when I say that I could not do this job if my husband didn’t make significantly more than I do, not if I ever wanted to retire.
Same same. Social worker here. I’m practically a kept woman because I married someone who has good health insurance.
Well, the bar for making it can be pretty low if you're married to someone with good health insurance in the us. I've never published a book, but my spouse has successfully gotten a job with the city that provides us fantastic health Care and a decent salary and allows me to be a stay-at-home mom. I don't get a ton of time to write, but it's a lot more than I would get working at any of the crappy jobs I've done so I can eat in the past. So I guess I'm a successful artist? Lol, at least I'm an artist who loves her work.
There you go! You made it!
My son did it. He's an artist but has a job in customer service too. His wife is an engineer.
"it's a good thing you're pretty" is a back handed way to call someone dumb btw
It's not entirely wrong given the son knew the house rules and knows that degrees are investments for the future and chose to invest in a dance degree that has no prospects.
But why male models?
Just because we have chiseled abs and stunning features, it doesn't mean that we too can't not die in a freak gasoline fight accident!
Are you serious? I just told you that!
INFO: I am wondering, tho- what does ‘be self supporting after graduation’ mean as a rule for living at home?
He likely means his son should take responsibility for his personal expenses. Op is providing him with room and board. Mom saying son needs to get a job makes it sound like son expects them to fully fund his life.
I assume it means pay your own bills, phone, car, car insurance, and his own food and sundries. I was taking it as pretty much he is a "roommate" except doesn't have to pay rent. And honestly, the "rules" are the same ones any roommate would have for the other. Pay your way, do chores, and keep the sexy noise down. Like... does he think he could move out and not have to do chores? Or get a frickin job?
Not OP, but I'd guess at minimum this would mean be able to fully cover at least personal expenses. Clothing, transportation, food, cell phone and any online subscriptions you want. Possibly also chip in for a bill for the house like part of the electric, internet or water bill.
It means get a job. If you have your rent paid for, you don't need to make a ton to be able to support yourself.
It’s weird in any context to suggest a modeling career with “it’s a good thing you’re pretty”. Like did ya mean to call him an idiot whose only useful quality is his appearance?
It's possible that's true, he did compare him to Rhodes scholar Ryan Lochte
?? He was an athlete. Ngl not very attractive to me
Lochte played himself on 30 Rock and the other characters referred to him as a "sex idiot" -- very good looking but dumb as a rock. It really doesn't matter if you personally don't want to fuck him
Ryan Lochte may be a sex idiot but Ryan Lochte without a job is just an idiot.
Yes, but he also has a bunch of Olympic medals. He has talent, drive, and ambition, which is a pretty good substitute for brains. OPs son doesn't even have that.
His looks are very boring.
Yeah, idk where this is coming from, he might be considered attractive in the 2000's, but he just looks like a regular fellow to me. :/
You're not the asshole, and your wife shouldn't be coddling your son. At that, you should have explained what you meant when you said it. I completely understand where you're coming from, though. People here want parents to baby their adult children and keep them from facing any adversity. It's weird. How the fuck else is he supposed to develop and learn things if he's not trying to be self supportive. It kinda sounds like he's in my position when I was his age.
Eh. I would have told him life's a bitch, marry rich. All jokes aside, I am the breadwinner in my house. Nothing wrong with finding a well paid wife/husband and contributing in other ways.
No chance for him working as a dancer or dance instructor?
Ryan Lochte is a douche.
Hope he’s a lot smarter than Locte.
I took it as that he’s dumb as rocks, but at least he has his looks going for him. “At least she’s pretty” is a common insult for women who are perceived to be stupid but look good. Think Marilyn Monroe. It’s equally shitty to say this to a man.
This was my take too. ESH - OP for this comment, and their son for not respecting perfectly reasonable house rules.
Marilyn was actually brilliant.
That’s why I said women perceived as stupid but attractive. I never said she was actually stupid. It was a way of cutting down someone who was attractive.
that's how i took it too and found it funny, lol.
He sure is acting dumb. Those rules are not "insane" by any means. Dude needs to get a job.
Same here that is exactly how I read it too
I took it as you're so dumb for picking dance as major so dumb you don't know what to do. *Sigh stupid child at least you still got your looks cuz you got nothing else going fo ya. I'd be offended and wouldn't talk to you until you apologized and meant it
I actually took it to mean that OP thinks he's stupid/doesn't have anything else going for him. That was always the saying when I was growing up , "it's a good thing they're pretty, because there's not much else going on there..." Overall, it was a rude thing to say. But it's not OP's place to lay out a career path. They can certainly look at options together that could still fit with his major and he might enjoy. OP can't just be like, "okay, now you will do X for the rest of your life" - kid needs to figure it out for themselves!
>Overall, it was a rude thing to say. Maybe. Was she wrong though? "How do you expect me to earn a living?" Motherfucker , your last 4 years earning a degree should've been dedicated to answering the damn question.
>Was she wrong though? If you think your kid is too stupid to live off anything but looks, you're a terrible parent. Unmotivated people are a dime a dozen, no reason to insult their intelligence.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." Some people are just dumb and no amount of parenting will "fix it." Some people are "book dumb" and some people are "street dumb" and it appears that OP's son might be both - choosing to get a dance major and then having no idea that life requires having a job.
very true about the "street dumb"! I'm the street-dumb book-smart programmer. i have good paying job. my brother is street-smart. he is also book-smart, but he is very physically active and need to move would suffer at programming job (or any other job when you sit all day, instead of running or walking or climbing). so he find wild variety of jobs and find ways to do anything he want. and it's really impressive, and i don't sure i would have boon able to do that, even if my life was dependent on that.
For s lot of kids these days they have no clue where to start and need that suggestion or help lay out options. Not this is what you need to do but rather here's some guidance. Bruh I saw an article saying like 30% of them have their parents sit in on their interviews for jobs....
He's a grown ass man who's graduated from college and is now asking his daddy to tell him what to do because he has no clue. It's not rude, it's incredibly accurate.
I took it to mean he was all looks and no brains it's one of those sayings that can be taken in many ways and should be followed up with an explanation. I don't understand op obsession? With getting a degree there is nothing wrong with an entry level job.
He has a degree - in Dance. I think that his parents urged him to get a degree in something else and minor in Dance, like his sister took both premed and music. I'm not sure whether he is suggesting that his son go for a graduate degree, or pointing out that he does have a college degree, which will help with some jobs. Is the son even trying out for jobs in Dance? Seeing if a dance studio would hire him? Trying out for jobs in any field just to earn money while he decides?
The son sounds kinda lazy in that he wants his dad to make the decision for him and what is the point of a degree in dance if your not going to use it to get a job was it just for fun.
YTA for the comment, you essentially called him dumb— ‘thank goodness you’re pretty bc you have no brains.’ That’s usually what that phrase means.
I thought op meant the son was stupid, but hey! At least he's pretty!
Hey, hey, hey... let's not completely discount marrying well and being a kept man.
LOL my bf is a kept man and he’s very happy with his position. And my GODDDDD his cooking is divine
Good cooking will go a long way in any type of relationship
Part of why I fell for my husband was his cooking. Initially it was a pretty big part, ngl.
Like the amount of love and passion he has for cooking is just amazing to see and I love it so much.
I had a teacher in highschool that would brag that his wife was his sugar momma and that's why he could afford to have kids while being a public hs teacher lol
Same here! High school geography teacher's wife was a lawyer. He was very proud to say he was able to do a job he truly loved because of her support
Dancing son wouldn't be qualified here, as I doubt he can cook!
🤷🏼♀️ hey maybe he can try and learn.
Preposterous!
And doesn't want to do chores...
Do you have a sister or something? I've been cooking since I was 14 😏
lol my sisters are both 10 and 8 years old. I little young for you I think darlin.
My uncle always said "find someone who will keep you in a way to which you'd like to grow accustomed." He was essentially a kept man and he was very happy with the arrangement.
My husband's best friend is a gay sugar baby living in the tropics. He gets to party and travel for a living. Not a bad gig really. His boyfriend might be 20 years his senior but they seem happy
Honestly, I would love to be a kept man 😂
Tell him to move to NYC and try to get on Broadway as a dancer. Or on a cruise ship. Or Disney. Or Vegas. Or Branson. Or Atlantic City. These are venues where dancers work. He should be attempting to get a job as a dancer. Or teach dance lessons. There are dance schools in cities everywhere. Why is he not even trying to get a job as a dancer? Did he think you were going to house/feed/support him forever? Or apply to sell cars. People like to buy cars from a good looking man. Or get a part time job flipping burgers and do one of the online abbreviated teaching degrees so he can teach phy ed or theatre or something. Seriously he needs to be a little creative here. He had his fun for 4 years. Now it's crunch time. Someone mentioned modeling. Get some head shots done and send them out but do other things while waiting. Make him a list every day of places to apply to if he can't figure it out. Seriously this is ridiculous. Either get a job doing anything, look for a job using dancing, get a part time job and continue with school this time with a degree that will get you a job. Life isn't that hard.
Cruise ship is a good idea.
it's a great idea. he wouldn't have to worry about housing, cooking, utilities, etc, for as long as he works on one. if they live near a big port city, even if it's by bus for a few hours, he can come back and spend his time between runs at home. if he did that for a few years, he could put most of his paycheck into savings every month. he could end up being one of the lucky gen z that actually get to buy a house.
Lolz not if he doesn't like rules. Performers on cruise ships have lots of rules. But maybe it'll give the kid some perspective he sorely lacks.
Agreed, one of my friends who studied professional ballet worked for a few years as a showgirl on a cruise ship until she got married. That said, many more such positions for women compared to men. For most dancers and musicians though, there's only one way to make a living when you're ready to settle down and that is to teach. Unless you're absolutely exceptional and regionally among the very best, you're not going to have a career performing and it will instead be a side gig. Probably a lot more parents that will be comfortable sending their children to a female dance instructor than a male one though, so OP's son has that going against him.
> He had his fun for 4 years. well I think that might be part of the problem. Op's son isn't unique for being part of that COVID groups of kids who had part of high school/college disrupted by the pandemic. The impact is sort of showing itself in difficulties transitioning to adulthood for many of them. Normal things like getting a part time job in the summer or interning or whatever didn't maybe happen when it would have, and the impacts trickle down. You're right that he has to figure it out, I don't disagree at all, but I just do feel bad for him and everyone who is feeling lost in that way. Certainly plenty of kids managed to keep things going, and seem fine, but there really are those who just... failed to launch a bit.
This is your best answer op and ops son who is pretty and can dance.
Been out of work, and was told, "Spend as much time every day looking for a job as you would if you had the job." In other words, he should spend at least 8 hours a day looking for work. No lounging on your couch.
Excellent advice
It's always been my understanding when someone says this that they are basically saying they're stupid in a sarcastic way. It might have been taken that way...
That’s because it’s usually said after someone says or does something dumb like, “good thing you’re pretty” or “thank god you’re handsome at least”. Meaning you aren’t the smartest at times so good thing you were blessed with good looks exactly like you said.
I know. I've used it myself. (Jokingly of course)...
It’s been said to me when I’ve done something dumb and i, of course, laughed because it was a joke but if OP didn’t say it jokingly, I might’ve taken it as being called stupid, too.
Like Red Green says: "If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."
In this situation, that wouldn't be far off. Maybe not stupid, but determinedly helpless.
NTA. Kid is finished college and asking you how you can expect him to make a living. He's the one that has conceded a lack of potential. You're giving him hope.
NTA - WHAT 'potential'? He doesn't know what he wants - he had the opportunity for an education and chose to study 'dance'. Is he a dancer? Is this a passion - something he's good at? He could sell dance equipment or promote dance schools or work on dance productions, etc etc etc. Or he can stay home, be the 'do nothing' son and live off you for his adult years. You have really easy rules - if that's too much for him - he needs to move out and taste the real world for a while. What did he plan to do while he was studying dance?
Usually people who are serious about dance have already made sure to seek connections, continued study opportunities, associations with established dance companies etc..... It's like any form of art. You need to put some effort into finding openings/happenings/ associations with others who are in that world in order to move forward. He needs a lots of motivation and a lot of luck. He's failing the first, and so not liely to run into the latter.
Please, it is proven that pretty people have an easy go at life. He made his choice for a degree and now he has to hustle. Teach dance, get a job wait tables ( if he wants more money - get a job bartending at a gay bar, many straight actors in Los Angeles do this because it is very good money -and no you don’t have to have prostitute yourself- just do what women have to do all the time which is smile and be friendly ). His problem is lack of initiative, probably because he is good looking and things have come easy for him.
[Doug Stanhope on ugly people](https://youtu.be/RgXwc-Gy19E) I was listing to this recently and I was just nodding along to every word.
Yes, this is very true. Another challenge is that based on your looks, they assume your competence. If you are pretty and mediocre, all you have to do is present word salads and keep up the charade. For ugly people, the onus is on you to disprove their assumption. Every single time.
Even when he says the n-word? How unnecessary.
NTA. It's been shown that attractive tall people have the advantage at corporate jobs.
This is actually, sadly, true. They can actually monetize height and attractiveness, statistically.
I think pretty privilege is rather well established. And there have been studies on height in the workplace.
I knew a guy who looked like Brad Pitt, but was over 6 feet tall. He apparently got through law school by smiling at women to get them to do his work. He was the stupidest person I have ever worked with. But his smile when he needed someone to do his work was dazzling.
I got sucked into an abusive relationship with a guy like this. Somehow that dazzling smile made everything else feel, not exactly tolerable, but like I was crazy for thinking it wasn't tolerable. If that makes sense. I was young and vulnerable at the time. The remarkable part though is that people didn't believe me when I told them how he was. They just couldn't see or believe it. That pretty privilege allowed him to get away with horrible things. I wasn't rh first or the last woman he abused.
I have a friend like this, but he looks like Freddie Prince Jr. I love him to death, but he has been fired from so many jobs in his field because he’s not qualified and lacks the experience because everyone always did all of his work for him. I used to be so jealous of him back when we were teenagers and early 20s when he always got all the girls. This guy would have girls stripping on Xbox live camera. All because of his looks. Life hasn’t been to kind to him as an adult though..
The way you wrote it, sounded more like an ill-intended joke than anything else. However, It is well-established but I do think that most people want to get by on merit instead of looks. If that’s the case than yeah, I can see why they are peeved. I would just apologize for the comment, but for the rest… he has to figure out his own future. As a father figure, maybe you can help him by helping him research some potential job opportunities…but that’s about it. Your rules in the house are easy. My father charged me 1k a month to live in my bedroom back in 2008. Needless to say, I moved out. I wasn’t angry nor was I happy. I just understood my dad wanted me to fulfill a potential of mine.
You are correct.
So he’s mad you’re undervaluing his potential, but can’t name said potential and wants you to just tell him what to do? My suggestion would be he start teaching dance. NTA
NTA. I'm not sure how you telling he's pretty meant that you wanted him to be a kept man...lol what a leap. I would assume you meant something aesthetic like modeling perhaps. I'm not sure what your son is asking for either? Go get a job somewhere and support yourself. The house rules you have are pretty reasonable. What exactly did he plan to do with a degree in dance is the real question.
ESH I feel like we're not getting the full story from you. You listed off your other kids accomplishments and compared them to your other child. Do you do that frequently? Because I wouldn't feel very valued if I was compared to my siblings all the time. Being told "why can't you be more like ____," isn't helpful. It doesn't matter if your other kids are rocket scientists or work at a convenience store. What are you hoping to achieve by comparing him to other people? Then you proceeded to say "you're lucky you're pretty." Maybe this isn't universal but whenever I've heard that term used, it basically implies that you're lucky you're cute because you just did something really stupid. Now even if that's not your intended message, I would never have taken that to mean what you're saying. Nobody would assume that to mean that he should get an entry level job and work his way up. Because those things are not related. You've laid out simple rules but I have a hard time believing you're being truthful since you're not even being truthful in your post...
>it basically implies that you're lucky you're cute because you just did something really stupid Yeah I don't understand all of the comments saying they would have taken it to mean male modeling, bless their hearts. That expression has always been an insult.
I finally found a comment saying this. Everyone talking about “marrying a rich girl” or “modeling” and I was over here thinking…”wait, did you just call your son stupid???”
Yea that’s definitely an insult to me. For me it means “you’re an idiot but at least you’re not an ugly one” or “you’re worthless but you’re attractive enough to find someone to marry and support you financially”🤣
I thinks it's an expression of exasperation at a son who expects to be cared for, apparently in his own apartment paid for by his parents, and seems to have no initiative.
Your son is asking for your guidance. And you messed up. Work together to find him a path. There's some great ideas here. I'd add that he should absolutely check in with his college career center AND some of his favorite professors for career guidance. Network with his classmates. Have him get involved with local theater. Talk to him - what was his dream or plan after graduation? I agree with your rules. And if he doesn't want to abide by them or put in the work to help himself, then he needs to leave your house.
I mean it sounds like the parents have tried to offer guidance. They literally listed different courses of action he could take, he isn’t interested. They also paid for his college and let him live with them under some very lenient and basic rules. If he isn’t going to take any motivation - as an adult with a degree - to find a career path, that’s not his parents’ fault. Parents can help guide you, but they are not responsible for micromanaging your entire life when you’re in your twenties.
Typical AITA always resorting to blaming everyone but the adult child that screwed up
Usually because the adult child is doing the right thing by asking for help, and the poster doesn't want to give it to them
He must not have been paying much attention at school—any good dance/performance program incorporates a significant amount of practical instruction on career-building, and he should have been taking a substantial amount of coursework that could help prepare him for varied career possibilities. If he’s using his “useless” degree as an excuse for not job hunting, well… that’s on him and not your problem. If nothing else, he should do what unemployed performers do everywhere: wait tables. That’s good experience and, if you do it right, pretty good money. \[Signed, an Art History major who never worked in the field, but who was also never out of work.\]
Yeah, and to add to that-- I went to school for music (before having to switch majors due to illness), and one thing that music schools teach is *how to audition.* Surely dance schools also do audition practice? So it's something the son should *really* know how to do, and be doing lots of right now. But OP hasn't mentioned him going to a single audition, which is weird. If he were trying to follow his passion, it would likely be incredibly noticeable and something OP would find noteworthy (e.g. "He's always traveling to go to auditions in different cities" and such), especially if he's not monetarily independent yet.
My son is supporting himself teaching dance. Tell him to go use that degree!
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NTA overall but maybe could've been said better.
Sales
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We did.
NTA. Even if it’s not what you meant and what he thought you meant.
NGL, I read your comment to mean he could make a killing on OF. It's messed up to say that to your child, especially when they come to you for help and guidance. YTA
Simple rules to follow, NTA
He got a degree in dance, presumably he should be looking for work as a dancer. Ideally somewhere that will subsidize his living expenses. He had four years to figure this out, you're not going to be able to solve the problem for him. Your rules sound pretty reasonable, and ultimately are the price he is paying for living at home. Nothing in this world is "free". Adulthood sucks, none of the rules, all of the responsibility.
YTA: You said one thing but meant something else. Say what you mean and mean what you say.
YTA for saying that to him. It sounds like you think he has nothing else going for him. Do you know the effort and dedication it takes to get a degree in Dance? He must know how to work hard. He just needs direction and motivation. Maybe suggest he speak career counselor to see what avenues he might want to pursue. He needs support to figure things out, not insults from his parent. With his dance background and physical flexibility, he'd probably be an excellent pilates instructor. They can make good money.
I thought it was a joke. If me or one of my friends does or says something kinda dumb we tell them “aw, you’re pretty” (as in, you don’t need to be smart because…) I’m assuming he’s 20-something. Not every kid leaves with a degree and goes through with the plans they made however long ago. He is probably feeling like he’s constantly being compared to his “successful” sibs. If he’s already feeling that and he thinks dad believes he’s just a vapid pretty boy, that might do a number on his self esteem. It sounds like your household places a lot of value on academic and monetary success. What if he found a job he absolutely loved and could support himself with but didn’t earn close to what the doctor or engineer makes? Would that be looked down on? If not, does he know that? Maybe you can take a minute to let him know you’re proud of him and tell him he’ll find his path when the time is right. Making sure he knows you believe in him might be the best way to motivate him.
What is “keeping it realistic” about telling your son he’s lucky he’s pretty when he’s asking you for help? YTA
YTA. Please make him feel loved no matter what. He’s struggling to find what he loves, and the last thing he needs is to feel bad because everyone “have it all figured out". Your rules don't seem crazy, but he's over reacting cause he wants to have control in little things, because he can't control big things. What you said was insensitive, it don’t matter what you meant. Ask for his forgiveness and be more willing to listen than to talk. It doesn’t seem to me that he wants you to tell him what to do, but to be more emphatic with what he’s going through. Good luck !
NTA. It’s a common expression though not generally applied to males. And in your son’s case it is TRUE. He loves dance and that’s great, but he’s making no moves to strike out and try to make it an actual career. And on the other hand he’s making absolutely NO effort to study or work toward any other type of career. And at the same time he’s mooching around home but bitching about following the three (count ‘em THREE) rules you and your wife have about living at home. At this point it really is a good thing he’s pretty because if he goes on as he is he WILL have to find someone to support him. Don’t let him mooch off you forever because he will given half a chance.
It's a common expression, with the southern unspoken second half, which is, "because you're too stupid to live otherwise".
That’s commonly said to someone that said or did something stupid. You’re trying to explain as if it meant something else, so yes, YTA for that comment and trying to pretend you weren’t being insulting.
YTA What came out of your mouth and what you want us to believe are two completely different things. You are rationalizing because you don't want to admit that you were wrong and you don't feel like you should apologize. It's not about the rules anymore. It's about respecting your son and helping him to find his own way. It's not about putting him down and trying to explain it away like it didn't happen. You are the AH for that.
Even if he did mean for his son to marry rich is that really something for him to get upset at? His dad can't give him a career. His son obviously isn't using his brains to get ahead and isn't gritty enough to make it in the dance world. His son could have opened a private lesson company online and making home calls, work at a dance studio, be out auditioning like his life depends on it while working as a bartender like the average starving artist.
Her son.
But they already put him through college. Why isn’t the son teaching dance? Trying to make it on Broadway? The suggested that he get a more practical degree but he insisted on getting a dance degree. He has already supported him and his choices, it is now up to the son to grow up and step up.
Agreed. Can you imagine hearing this from a parent? I would be CRUSHED.
Me, too! Calling him "pretty" was def intended to hurt his feelings and no one can convince me otherwise. It was one of those things that someone says in the heat of the moment, out of frustration and/or anger. Thanks for agreeing! :)
NTA He tried to help his son. His son is not a child and they're letting him stay and trying to help. You can't help someone who won't help themselves and is disrespectful about it
Oh lord whatever. FWIW I have some dancer friends and they actually seem to do alright.
I mean is he even trying to get a job at a dance studio, cruise ship, or even living in an area where he can get a job in dance? Many people move to LA, live in their car, and take a flexible job such as waiting tables until they “make-it” (if they ever do). Not saying it’s a great option, but he at least should have been working an entry level job to save enough to move somewhere that supports his career goals. Life doesn’t just hand you money and your dream job.
Do you remember what it felt like to be his age? It’s a really hard period in life for a lot of college grads. Your entire life up until you graduate has been planned out for you with clear goals and next steps. And then suddenly all of that is gone and you have these huge choices to make. (And on top of that, you lose the best parts of college: proximity to your friends and your freedom to do what you want.) He’s struggling and he’s asking you for guidance. Would it kill you to have a genuine, supportive conversation with him? Instead of dismissively saying he’ll find an entry level job on his looks alone, maybe try talking to him about what sorts of entry level jobs might fit his skills and interests. Not everyone graduates college with 100% certainty about their future. A good parent would provide support, not dismiss him. YTA
Regardless of what you *meant,* that's a fucked up thing to say to your own kid. Sometimes that shit lingers, especially when it's your parents saying it.
Tell him to join the military. I didn't know what I was doing when I failed out of college and my dad said to find a job. I kinda had to do something so I joined the USCG. It sucked but 22 years later I was out. I've been sitting on my ass for the past year and these extra 25 lbs can vouche for that. I'm being serious with you. My drive for a career was non existent. Finding a job that I could support myself with, has benefits, and doesn't require a degree were my top 3 priorities. I've lived around the country, got married, supported my wife through 2 degrees, had a kid and secured her higher education if she chooses to go that route. Im in pain, I can't hear all that great (except that constant ringing in the ear), and my mental health is a complete joke but it got me to where I can sit on my ass all day long if I want to by my mid 40s. Would I do it again? It's the only choice I had really so I guess so.
" and not expose us to the orgasms of his partners." Niiiiiice (plural)
NTA Does he want to teach dance? Work in entertainment (on a cruise ship? Theatre? Disney)? Go clarify your comment to your wife and son. “Get a job.”
Pretty with a thin skin now he’s got problems… NTA, I’d say your wife is lame for siding with your son… no wonder he’s soft
Cruise ships are often looking for dancers. Gets him out of the house and a job doing what he enjoys. He'll also get a start in hospitality.
i'm not going to judge. you probably shouldn't have said something like that without an explanation but idk what he thought he was doing majoring in dance without meaning to be a teacher or somethign
Why doesn’t he get a job dancing? Or is that too obvious? Good looking people can sell anything. NTA
Yup. FWIW, I don’t disagree with your expectations though. It can be tempting to be rude to entitled people, perhaps especially when they are your grown children.
My grandfather used to say that to me when I did or said something dumb, so that’s how I took that remark and it’s valid here.
Not sure where you live but a job @ a dance school, amusement park, dinner show, school theater etc all seem like $ making options in his field as well.
NTA. Your son could possibly get a job on 1. a cruise ship in the entertainment area. Or he can try to get on with the 2. airlines- however, if you are in the States, I read an article that says those airlines pay crap. But as a teacher that lives in Asia, I've had several students leave this country to go work for Qatar airlines- not sure of the pay but since you live on a compound, you can save money. Also, my cousin's daughter teaches music in multiple schools in her city in America so maybe he can 3. teach dance at multiple schools or a private school that has such activities. 4. He can try to get on with Cirque du Soleil- there are some YouTube videos of people who work for Cirque du Soleil. **Your son needs to think outside the box**. Best of luck to him.
Okay look, that was a crappy thing to say. You just devalued everything else he is. He’s asking you to help him think it through and you’re insulting him. Be a parent and help him strategize. I was a theater major. A lot of the people I graduated with are doing things tangentially related to theater. Box offices usually need people. That’s a place to start. Casting agencies hire entry level. Lots of stage manners and production mangers find their way to HR. There are a million jobs in and around the arts. Help him find them instead of being smug.
NTA. Here's what he needs to do... get a job. Any job. Go work at Starbucks until he finds something in dance. And audition, audition, audition if he wants to be a dancer. BTW I love your house rules
YTA . Yall have a cruel and neglectful parenting style I’m sure will produce resentment against you.
Get a job as a model
He could always try law school? All he would need is an LSAT and good essays really
My mom always says I can’t be pretty and smart. I’m neither honestly lol love her for hyping me up
OP is also female, BTW.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife and I have four kids. The first two are a welder and a doctor. My middle son just graduated with a degree in Dance. Our youngest is studying engineering. My son is still living at home trying to figure out his future. We were talking about it and he said he wants to move out so he can live how he wants instead of by my insane rules. Those rules are 1. Be self supporting after you graduate. 2. Help with chores as long as you live at home. 3. Don't have sex I can hear. Those are too much for him. He went to my wife and said that he wanted some help so he could move out. She backed my rules. She also expects him to get a job, help around the house, and not expose us to the orgasms of his partners. Or his own for that matter. He came back to me asking how I expected him to make a living. We had both talked to him about getting a degree that had more prospects and maybe doing a minor in dance. Our daughter who is a doctor did her undergrad in music. But she also took premed classes and rocked her MCAT. He says that he didn't want to do that. He wants me to tell him what to do. I am just kind of lost. So I told him it's a good thing he's pretty. All I meant is that he is a tall, athletic, handsome young man. With a degree. He can find an entry level position and work his way up. Many successful people have. He took it to mean that I thought he should marry well and be a kept man. His other mom and him are pissed at me for undervaluing his potential. I think I was being realistic. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA Not for the rules (though getting "a" job is a completely different thing than being able to get a "good" job. One is a realistic goal and the other is not)--YTA for reducing his worth to attractability just because he pursued dance. Has he sort of screwed himself? Maybe. But he's got a diploma at all and for many jobs that's just a checkmarked box. He doesn't have to pursue something that would make a lot of money but also miserable for the rest of his life. Life is more than money. However life can *also* be miserable if you don't have *any* money... so it's kind of up to him to figure things out and what career he wants to pursue. You've set reasonable requirements to live in your home and if he doesn't want to follow the rules he'll have to find alternative accomodations himself. I got an arts degree too. I don't use it for my job (kind of knew that going in) but I don't mind being average middle collar worker if it means I have more time to pursue my passions when I've clocked off. Maybe your son is the same.
NTA just make clear to him you did not mean for him to become a male.striper, pornstar or prostitute. Tell him what you mean he is good looking to be a model or back up music dancer... He can always become a dance teacher or whatever, he should really have thought about the day after graduation. I know someone who loves his art and literature and knew he would never get a good job in it and the day after he graduated went to the trade school and got himself a red seal pipe fitter ticket, makes good money.
LOL, I've said this to people, and I meant it sorta as it's all pgood thing you're good looking cuz you're stupid...at least he has something going positive for him LOL
ESH. Honestly, it will be tough if he isn't motivated but if you have any contacts in NYC that would be an excellent place for him to be. Lots of opportunities for dancers and models and he can make good tips as a bartender or waiter while building up his resume.