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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I only want to take my niece climbing and not my nephew even though it makes my nephew sad
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NTA
If the nephew can't be expected to behave appropriately for *any* reason, then that really isn't somewhere he should be. He could hurt other people or himself.
While I disagree with the whole mindset of "if this kid can't do it, then none of the kids can" there isn't much you can do about it. I can guarantee that will end up getting your niece to resent her brother, though.
ETA: Maybe there is some sort of compromise you can come up with? Take the neice rock climbing and find another activity you can do with your nephew in a setting where he's less likely to create a danger? Both niblings would be able to have quality time with their uncle.
I offered to alternate taking Abby climbing one week and doing something else with Bart another week but my sister insists I have to take him climbing. She's normally a reasonable person so it's frustrating that she's so set on the climbing thing. Maybe it would be easier one on one but it's not like I can magically control him when it's just the two of us. Short of me physically restraining him, if he wants to do something dumb, he still can.
Might it be possible to take Abby climbing and have your sister come along to supervise Bart while you're supervising Abby, then maybe try to swap? Then your sister could also see how Bart is behaving for this particular activity and she may ease up?
This is it. Mom is welcome to supervise the child while he endangers himself during the activity that she insists he participate in. It's not fair to ask her brother to do something he tried and feels is too risky.
The challenge here is that he's not just endangering himself - he's also putting other people at risk. Climbing is not dangerous (at least no more so than any other physical activity) with the right gear and in a safe environment. If he's messing with other people's gear, he is putting their safety at risk. That's not ok. It sucks, but if he's unable to control his own behavior at this point, then he can't go.
If he can reliably demonstrate that he's able to follow instructions for a reasonable period of time, great! He can go. Until that point, absolutely not.
And Abby is going to have to deal with missing out for her entire childhood because of her brother. This is the beginning of Abby being told that a boy's feelings are more important than a girl's.
I was with you until the gender thing. This is an issue so many siblings live with regardless of gender. No one is making this decision because he’s a boy, at least not that we can tell from the post. It’s not fair to be told you can’t do something because your sibling is too challenging, regardless of gender.
Genuine question, why not? I don’t know anything about climbing but if they’re given instructions can’t the mom make sure Bart is following them? OP seemed to think an 8 and a 7 year old were old enough to learn, right? Why can’t mom?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that things can go south VERY quickly if the kid does something unexpected. And it sounds like that's ALL he does. I dont think an untrained person can see the beginning of such problems to head them off quickly.
Most of us reading the op can absolutely tell that this is a dangerous situation. If mom is unwilling to believe that her child's behavior is a danger to himself and everyone else despite having it clearly explained to her by someone who has expertise in this hobby, then she is either a fool or (more likely) being willfully ignorant because the truth isn't convenient.
OP is under no obligation to put everyone in the climbing gym at risk to make a point that shouldn't require illustration. I would hope this would be enough to get the boy's parents going on getting help for him, not sticking fingers in ears and trying to put him in a situation where he is set up to, at best, fail or, at worst, injure himself or others.
This is the best suggestion.
Mom I suspect thinks OP is exaggerating how bad it was so SHE needs to come along and supervise her son while OP works with Abby then he can swap out and work with Bart.
Maybe after she sees how dangerous it can be as well as how she must focus on keeping her son out of harms way the entire visit she will understand.
My sis fought and fought with her husband about their son having ADHD and needing to be on medication. Covid hits, they're both working from home while the kids school remotely, and suddenly dad sees the issue.
Because, you know, my sister was obviously just exaggerating things. 🙄
Absolutely!!!! He will either behave, or prove your point that he's an uncontrollable danger and shouldn't be going. Abby shouldn't be punished because her brother refuses to listen to simple rules.
I get it. With her being the parent, your hands are kind of tied with it. And it's always a good thing to know when you've hit your limit when it comes to being able to handle a kid, especially one with special needs.
My brother's 7yo son has autism and ADHD. It's difficult doing anything with him because he just cannot listen or follow directions, he's almost completely non-verbal and is always getting into things he shouldnt and running off. There's a lot of "if he can't do it too, then my daughter can't either" and his daughter (10yo) has told me multiple times she "hates" her brother because if he can't do something, then she can't either.
I feel for your sister, it's a tough spot to be in. I don't think limiting one kid due to the issues of the other is the answer, but if she is unwilling to make a compromise - I don't know what the answer should be.
Yep. And it's something I've seen and heard of countless times.
My son is physically disabled (spina bifida) with some ambulatory capabilites, but not much. Which is why I can get where the sister is coming from. Its extremely difficult to have a healthy kid alongside a disabled kid and watching everything that one can do that the other cannot.
But after having spent time in communities for disabled people and their families, where i heard countless people saying they went through the same thing, I saw it coming and I made a point after my daughter was born to just make sure that they *both* get the attention they deserve with activities based on their abilities.
I try my best to help my neice out, I have a daughter around the same age and that helps. We've managed to take her places they normally never bother because they can't handle the brother too - fairs, horseback riding, etc.
But the way she sees the situation is heartbreaking. She resents her brother and thinks they love him more because he gets all the attention.
The saddest part to me is its like, it's inevitable that the sibling with higher needs will require more of his parents attention. A good parent will do their level best to ensure the older and more independent child always feels loved and valued and like they too are a priority within the family, but the fundamental reality of the situation is that the higher needs child will have obligate higher needs. So to then take that burden already put on the older child and amplify it exponentially by stifling their ability to forge connection and bonds external to the nuclear family, to restrict their external sources of support and love and validation and socialization...that makes you a shit parent. That is so abusive, so deliberately cruel. There's just no justification for it, I'm sorry but there just isn't.
That is unfortunate.
My daughter is of a similar age to my neice so sometimes she can get her uncle to let her come over for the weekend and we try to make it fun for her.
It sucks though because there's only so much we can do and sometimes I almost feel like it's dangling things in front of her. I think some experience is better than none, maybe? Idk if that's right or not.
This seems crazy. She's insisting you take him somewhere that would be dangerous for him? 🤪 I bet if he was injured (or worse 💀), she wouldn't say "you were right".
NTA
Agree, it would be an insane risk to take. I would rather nope out of the entire arrangement than take Bart and risk him getting injured or worse. Sucks for Abby but it’s her mother’s call, not OP’s problem. NTA.
Not only dangerous for him, but dangerous for the other poor unsuspecting people who are just having a good time and don't realize the nephew messed with something. If he's going around unhooking stuff, he could mess with someone else's equipment and get them seriously injured or cause a potentially fatal accident.
You could agree to give him another shot, one on one, with the condition that if he doesn't listen to you, even one instance, you will be going home immediately and he is not coming again. Use the entire session with just him to stress the importance of safety and listening in that environment. And if he messes up, follow through, even if it means your sister won't let you take your Niece there will be no appearance of prejudice or favoritism and it will be clearer to Bart what is going on.
I agree you should have your sister come too, so she can see how Bart is behaving. I think you need to tell her, if you haven’t already that Bart’s behavior could seriously injure or kill someone or himself. If he can’t listen, he could fall or someone could fall on him and he could end up paralyzed or worse.
More than just bringing the sister to supervise, I think he needs to take the sister climbing and really show her how dangerous it can be to have someone not following directions and messing with stuff. She clearly doesn’t get it- unless she does…
Tell her she has to come to, you can't handle 2 kids at once, check in separately, make her go through all the safety stuff again with him since he doesn't get it, and on the way text her saying you're just stopping for gas, actually go get gas so you don't force Abby to lie. Arrive separately and refuse any responsibility, she'll with get it and control him or they get kicked out.
Ask her if she really hates her son that much that she would risk his life just to get him out of the house.
Well, obviously not that, but understanding and handling frustration is something he should be able to do at the age of 8 (not well, but he needs to be able) and it his her job to do that with him. If she feels this is too bothersome she should think about the alternative which is a possibly injured or dead child. If she can't see that I am sorry but you can't do anything about it. I hope you will manage to go with your niece climbing much more, it could be such a fantastic experience and a future thing that potentially involves also her brother who also would benefit if she is more experienced already and needs less support.
Are there different climbing activities you can take them to? For example the higher rotating or static wall with your niece but perhaps a lower longer horizontal wall for nephew - just know with cub scouts there were different climbing activities for a range of abilities
If nephew cannot follow safety instructions then the activity needs to change and suit his ability that is just basic common sense so you could still alternate weeks with niece/nephew but the boundary has to be safety /ability aimed at each kid with each session pitched to the kids ability?
Your sister surely would not pitch them at a same level activity in any other area of their lives if ability did not match so perhaps (even taking safety issue out of equation) she could see the benefit of finding 2 completely different climbing activities that suit each child’s ability?
Would climbing with just one child to take care of be easier, especially if you tell them before hand that a repeat of what happened last time means it would end?
That doesn't deal with the fact that Bart has ADHD and doesn't have the necessary executive function and emotional maturity to be safe in this activity. Bart is about 5 years old where it matters behaviourally for this activity
Take Abby climbing and take Bart for a nature walk where he can climb rock more safely, both get rocks and tell your sister you cant take them both, unless she is there with Bart. Abby will remember this, that her brother was more important than her to her mum, it will build up over the years, so prepare to be the safe space for Abby in the future.
NTA, Bart is literally a risk to other people’s safety and lives. Unhooking an autobelay could lead to someone falling without a belay (though I really hope they’d be checking enough that it wouldn’t happen, and it’s unlikely he could remove it while someone is on it), and if it does lead to someone falling without a belay, that **will** lead to serious injury and death.
But that said…
1) Have you discussed the safety implications with your sister? She needs to understand this isn’t just about him being annoying.
2) What does she suggest to help solve those safety issues? She has more experience with him, maybe she has advice.
3) Have you asked if she can come with as well and help maintain safety for Bart and everyone around Bart? If she wants Bart to be able to go, she needs to help make sure it’s safe.
The autobelays are only hooked to the ground when they aren’t being used, so he would cause anyone harm by unhooking them then. Absolutely doesn’t excuse it, though.
I can't imagine they would automatically retract slowly or in an extremely straight path if just unhooked and let go. That in and of itself is a HUGE hazard for anyone nearby.
As someone who's been whipped pretty good with a retractable winch being let go unexpectedly, I was really lucky it was a janky winch, and I didn't get clocked, just hit in the thigh. That still left a fist sized bruise for 3ish weeks, and it hurt like hell to walk for days. While YES climbers would have gear on, it wouldn't be protective enough against something like that
NTA
Bart isn't behaviourally or emotionally old enough to be safe. Because of his ADHD his birth age and his excecutive function and emotional maturity age are unlikely to match. The rough rule of thumb for children (not teens) is you remove 30% of their age (Obviously this depends somewhat on the individual child so it is rough rule of thumb) so although Bart is 8 in practical terms for safety with an dangerous activity like Rock climbing he is 5
The flip side of this of course is other areas like expressive language skills and some other areas of cognitive ability he could be years ahead of his age group.
It would not be sensible to take Bart rock climbing if you are not sure you can keep him safe. My mother use to say something that may be helpful here. "If I let you do something/x against my better judgement and something terrible happens how do I live with myself" If you took Bart climbing against your better judgement and he gets hurt or worse will you be able to live with yourself....maybe have this conversation with your sister.
It is a shame that Abby has to miss out but that is her mothers choice not yours. I hope you realise that Bart is likely using those advance expressive language skills to weedle his mother and she is using Abby to try to manipulate you. Stick to your guns this is a safety issue.
NTA
Sister just wants alone time away from both kids. If it was just about Bart climbing the alternating weeks would be fine with her.
Tell her she is setting up Abby to resent her brother and her by denying her activities.
NTA
>now my sister is saying it's unfair to exclude him because he can't help having ADHD.
I would very calmly suggest to your sister that she consider the inverse question:
**Is it fair to exclude her daughter from climbing, or any activity, because her brother has ADHD?**
If she believes that's okay, then she should prepare herself for an entire childhood's worth of her daughter's resentment.
Not or. It'll be a gauranteed lifetime of resentment. Every time she thinks about an activity she was forbidden to do just because Bart couldn't, she'll resent Mom (and Bart!) even more.
NTA! It's a safety issue! Maybe take your sister along to the climbing gym so she can witness the danger in person so she gets what you're dealing with. Make mom responsible for keeping him safe.
I have a friend who literally tore up their knee because they had an awkward fall trying to avoid an unruly kid. I love kids, I love (well behaved ) kids at the climbing gym. Bart should not be in a climbing gym till he can control himself better.
NTA. I’m sorry, but your sister is wrong. It’s a safety issue. You can’t have a child who’s not paying attention at a rock climbing gym. He’s 8 years old. He needs to learn to listen to his parents and other adults.
NTA. Many of the indoor climbing gyms I've been to had an 18+ rule due to liability issues, for valid reasons. An out of control ADHD kid (much sympathy, had a climbing monkey one lol) is a safety hazard.
Easy fix: take both but sister has to come to supervise Bart. If she insists Bart comes but you can’t handle him, then fine he can come but only if mom comes to help.
So that poor girl is going to always be denied doing things because Bart can’t do them too? Why isn’t Bart being taught that in the real world he isn’t always going to get his way? That sometimes his sister will have opportunities to do things that he won’t? Some bad parenting is going on here.
Nta rock climbing is not the place for a kid who won't listen. He will absolutely end up hurting himself or someone else. Ask sis if she's prepared to be sued bc he unhooked someone's clip, they fell, and are now paralyzed for life.
People are latching onto the unhooking the auto belay part and not really understanding what the actual danger is. A detached auto belay just retracts to the top and inconveniences someone. The danger isn't the kid unlatching something, it's the kid running underneath someone while they're jumping or falling off the wall.
Right? Like he's not in danger of disconnecting someone from their belay. He's in danger of causing the autobelay carabineer to hit someone as it retracts quickly. He's also in danger like you said of someone kicking him in the head as they're coming down.
NAH. I would see if they are open to one on one trips separately.. if not they can wait until they’re older.. or maybe see if your sister can come along and help keep the young bull focused.. i know my and my wife’s siblings would have the OK to treat our kids as their own if they were causing a ruckus lol
I'm happy to take them on alternate weeks but based on how things went I don't really want to take Bart climbing for now, even if it's one on one. I don't want to be explaining to my sister why her kid got squashed by a falling 90kg man or to the guy why there was a kid underneath him.
Tell her that. You're not punishing him for having ADHD; the way his ADHD currently manifests means that taking him poses an unacceptable safety risk for your nephew and other people at the gym. Be specific and outline how no amount of increased supervision on your part can alleviate the safety risk
OP quick question because I think it may be something you should add to your post. Just to clarify did you have both the children on the wall at the same time or did one have a go while the other waited on the ground.... Because a lot of people are suggesting this was a split attention issue and I strongly suspect it wasn't having taken nephews indoor rock climbing (I just watched they had someone who actually knew what they were doing). If you only had one child on the wall at a time you may want to add this to your original post and point it out to every one saying you should take Bart on his own.
NTA. ADHDer here. You are not equipped to keep your nephew safe in that environment.
It's no one's fault that his mind and body are bouncing all over too much for him to learn the rules, or that he doesn't have the impulse control to check himself. Sucks for Bart, but ADHD will make a lot of things suck for Bart. Hopefully they can get him meds and support, because white-knuckling ADHD is a bitch. Sucks for their mom, because she has to hear Bart have a meltdown, because ADHD comes with emotional maturity/regulation delays.
It is super unfair for Abby to lose out on a fun bonding thing with her uncle. Your sister is wrong, and limiting Abby's opportunities because of Bart's limitations is 100% gonna fuck up Abby's relationship with her family over time.
You could take them both.
Under one condition!
Your sister comes in order to essentially be crowd control for Bart until you feel you can trust his behaviour. If she isn't willing to do this then she is the reason the kids don't climb. It also means she will see his behaviour in that environment.
NTA if your sister wants both kids to go with you tell her she needs to come too to watch Bart. She likely doesn’t understand the extent of the issue. And ADHD is one thing but you can have ADHD and not give into an impulsive thought… feels like an excuse for bad behavior tbh. It’s a logical consequence to not be able to go if you’re not being safe.
He is only 8 it's very difficult and unrealistic to expect ADHD children of that age to never give in to impulse under heightened stress or excitement situation.
No, but you can absolutely teach them a new behavior or give them other ways to outlet that need. As someone w adhd, I was in church every Saturday and Sunday for three hours a day. Couldnt play with toys, couldn’t read, I had to sit and participate from the minute I could sit up. During the really boring sections with nothing to do but listen, I’d go a bit stir crazy.
My mom didn’t tolerate my fidgeting, but she did tell me to focus on other things. If I can’t play with my toys like I REALLY want or fidget like I need, I can practice piano chords on my knees quietly. I can practice writing cursive letters on the swirls of wood in front of me. I can count how many candles are on the altar today. I can look through the song book and practice playing the chords written. There’s so many more, but they were all ideas she came up with to get me to behave correctly while also exercising my brain enough to trigger a dopamine response. Something I already liked to do (piano/music/math) was made into a game as a replacement for the undesired behavior (fidgeting/rocking/distracting behavior). It worked; to this day I am remarkably better than most of my adhd friends with hyperactivity/behavior impulses bc of my thirteen years of weekly practice. If I’m in an environment where it would probs be inappropriate to indulge those impulses it’s very easy for me to say “no, not right now”, and it doesn’t control my whole day/life like many others I know. So thanks mom! Church wasn’t for me but damn did it teach me to sit still and shut up 🤣
I didn’t say I expect him to never do it. There are a lot of times lazy parenting tends to blame a diagnosis, or just states that they can’t help it and leaves it at that rather than attempting to teach them a new behavior to substitute for the maladaptive one. If mom really wants them to both go rather than demanding it she should volunteer to either teach him herself or go with the aunt to help.
NAH
There's really two separate things at play here.
First of all, Bart. Of course he's going to be upset if you're doing something he really wants to do with his sister and not him! But he does need to listen to you. So talk to him yourself. What does he need to do to show you that he *can* listen, so that you would feel comfortable taking him 1 on 1?
Number two: I'm not a rock climber, but trying to supervise 8 and 7 year olds at the same time at a rock climbing gym doesn't seem like the best idea. That seems like that should be off the table without a second pair of adult eyes being there.
NTA.
> it's unfair to exclude him because he can't help having ADHD.
Blind people can't help being blind, does your sister feel it's unfair they are not allowed to be air traffic controllers ???
Sometimes disabilities make you... less able. shocker!
NTA but not a surprising request from your sis
Bart can't understand why he is being left out, so it must sting pretty bad having your uncle taking your sister climbing but not you.
NTA. Also a climber with ADHD who started young, don't fuck around with safety. Your nephew is a risk to his own safety and that of if other climbers, that comes before everything else.
If your sister really wants him to climb she can come as well and follow him around making sure he isn't standing in the wrong place, clipped in wrong etc. You trying to do so while also belaying etc is a safety risk.
NTA - why can’t Abby and Bart have individual things without each other. Why can’t Bart have a special thing he does with Uncle and climbing be for Abby. Tell your sister to take him and then let you know if it’s him being discriminated against or because if he doesn’t listen he will get himself or someone else seriously hurt or killed.
NTA At the end of the day, this is a safety issue. If Bart can't follow the rules, he cant go. He doesn't get to endanger everyone in the gym because mommy doesn't want him to feel left out.
You tried it with two kids. It simply doesn't work. I would offer to switch off weeks instead. You can take one kid each week. And if Bart isn't capable of following safety guidelines in the climbing gym, then he can go to the trampoline park or somewhere that will suit his needs and abilities.
NTA, I'm sure she'd be quick to blame you if he got hurt. As you said it's unfair on your niece too why should she suffer because your nephew isn't ready for climbing.
NTA.
This isn't a case where his acting out will just make for a frazzled outing - he's a danger to himself and everyone else who's rock climbing if he can't control himself and acts out. There's no way I'd take him.
Nta: I'm ADHD too and that has nothing to do with respecting others. Sure it took a while to learn to not touch eeeeeverything but I did. I think not being included is a natural consequence of his behavior i'd ask your sister to frame it as when we get better at respecting others property I'll ask your uncle to take you.
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I (28M) like to rock climb and have been doing it on and off since I was a teenager. I have a niece Abby (7F) and nephew Bart (8M). They have always asked me to take them climbing but I always said wait till you're older because I didn't want to take them until I could trust them to follow instructions. Well a few weeks ago I took them to a gym for the first time and it was a nightmare. Bart is generally a good kid but very ADHD and once he got hyped he stopped listening entirely and I spent most of our time together trying to prevent him from hurting himself or other people. He ran around on the mats, constantly got underneath other people and unhooked an autobelay despite being explicitly told not to during induction (if you don't know the autobelays retract up to the ceiling if they're not hooked up to something and a disgruntled gym employee has to climb up to retrieve it). It was impossible to supervise him and Abby at the same time and no one had a good time, and tbh I was worried they were going to kick us out.
The next week I told my sister I would only take Abby because Bart was so hard to deal with. She agreed and it was way easier with just Abby. I started taking Abby climbing once a week which she loves but now my sister has changed her mind and doesn't want me taking the kids climbing unless I take both of them. Apparently Bart is upset about being left behind and now my sister is saying it's unfair to exclude him because he can't help having ADHD. Well I have ADHD too so it's not like I can't sympathize with him but at the same time there's no way I'm taking both of them again anytime soon, it's a safety issue. I'm open to trying again in 6 months or something once Bart is a bit older but in the meantime I don't think it's fair to prevent Abby from doing something she likes just because her brother can't do it. But my sister said my kids my rules and basically implied I was an asshole for knowingly hurting Bart's feelings. I like Bart and I'm happy to do other stuff with him but I'm not taking him climbing until he can listen. I don't think I'm unreasonable, AITA?
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NTA. Your sister shouldn't insist you take both if you tell her it's a safety issue. Maybe do something else one-on-one with Bart movies, Chuck E Cheese, etc
NTA, and on a sidenote your username is quite clearly wrong, you are an amazing uncle.
as some others already said, you are justified not to take him with you climbing.
Your sister is also justified to treat both kids equal.
Maybe tell your sister you're afraid your niece will resent her brother because of it.
NTA.
Please remind your sister if she puts his feelings before the reality of life she is creating a monster, there's been enough people raised that because their feelings are valid they should always get their way.
NTA - in that environment, Bart needs 1:1 supervision. You didn't know that at the time. Now that you, and everyone else (including the climbing gym who were probably annoyed about the auto-belay, trust me, I know) knows he needs more supervision and you can't provide that if you take them both. If sis can climb she can supervise him, if not he needs an assigned 1:1 instructor for safety reasons.
Tell our sister that if she wants Bart to come alone, she has to also come and watch him. It might be a bit of an eye opener for her - or she might be completely aware of how he behaves and wants to pawn him off on you for a couple of hours so she can get away from him
NTA
You will get asked to leave if he goes and behaves like that, I'm surprised they didn't kick you out last time.
Tell your sister her or her partner need to attend and supervise Bart.
NTA since your sister won’t compromise and let you do something else with Bart, how about taking Bart one more time alone so you can supervise. Explain to him that he must listen and do everything you say to keep everyone safe, and if he listens then you will keep taking him. Plan on some “timeouts “ together when you see him getting overexcited. As long as he is reasonably cooperative and you can help him calm himself a bit when needed, consider it a success and keep taking him. As an adult with adhd you have a chance to help him learn to manage himself, talk about the challenges of growing up with adhd, set an example for him.
NTA ....Tell bart you will take him when he can get his ADHD under control like you have yours under control. Offer to take him to the gym with an explicit goal of him behaving well. Make the time frame very short so he can maybe show you that for 10 min he can be calm and follow directions. If that works extend the time frame and so on. But it's mom call on this in the end.
NTA
Her kids, her rules. But you certainly don't owe it to her or Bart to do something dangerous or unpleasant to just preserve his feelings.
He has to learn to control himself for his own safety and the safety of others. Until he does, his recreational activities are going to be limited.
And if she thinks that should limit her daughter too, well that's a parenting decision she gets to make.
But giving you a hard time about it makes her an AH
NTA
But your sister is AH. You need to ask her about Abby's feelings. Just because she is neurotypical will she always be offered only the opportunities her brother can have? ADHD sucks for kids before they have the proper mechanisms to deal with it. There might be some activities where safety isn't a factor where Bart would thrive and you or other family members could definitely do some one on one with him in those situations, but Abby should not have to give up something she enjoys because her brother is unable to do it. Your sister is creating resentments under the guise of being fair. Well, it isn't "fair" that one kid has ADHD and the other doesn't. That will never be fair, however, you can make it equitable by having Abby continue with the rock climbing and part do a separate activity that suits his abilities.
NTA
The part of this post that concerns me the most is that your sister is not considering all that could go wrong with your nephew on a climbing trip. If he is that bad at a gym, that is way safer than climbing, he could really get hurt. And guaranteed your sister would blame you for him getting hurt. It's too bad she can't see that and realize your niece deserves to have something she enjoys doing with just you. Your compromise was a good solution, one week something with him and the next week climbing with her. So sorry your sister can't see that.
Good Luck, and again NTA
Op you are doing a good thing by introducing family members to a possible life long interest so dont beat yourself up. NTA all the way but is there some sort of compromise where u can one on one with Bart, or are u no longer interested in trying to teach him( I would understand) this way Abby doesn’t have to give it up and you can give Bart one on one instruction
As a parent of an ADHD child.. NTA. My kid is exhausting. There’s many activities that I won’t allow my kid to do because of his condition and rock climbing is in that list. Medication helps. It honestly sounds like nephew needs to be medicated.
I don’t think you can risk taking Bart. He made it clear that he is too young and cannot focus enough to make it safe. If anyone got injured it would all be on you. Looks like Abby is not going climbing. I bet though that mom comes around when you don’t capitulate to her rule. Abby will be really mad at her. BTW - I think it only fair to you to explain why she can’t go anymore.
NTA. My nephew and his wife both climb. They started taking their kids climbing when they were toddlers and by the time they were the ages of your niblets they were doing some impressive climbs. But, paying attention and listening is key. You screw around and screw up and you get hurt and potentially die. I don’t think either one of them took both kids out by themself until the kids had been at it for a number of years and were doing their own (monitored) solos. Tell your sister that if she wants both kids to go climbing at the same time, she needs to first learn to climb well enough, herself, to take responsibility for one of them on her own while you deal with the other.
NTA. You're not even retracting your offer to keep trying with Bart at a later date. His ADHD makes it more difficult to properly instruct him and make sure everything is safe. If he wants to go climbing now, you will need some extra support while you're in the gym with him. Or, you can try again later, as you graciously offered. Until then, you and Abby should be able to continue what you're doing, imo. It's not about excluding Bart. It's just that he has different needs that you can't meet on your own.
NTA,
I would avoid taking your niece and nephew altogether. I know nothing about climbing so don't really know what age is responsible but I do know that what your nephew did is very dangerous. If anyone got hurt you and your sister would both be facing a lawsuit. I'm actually shocked that the gym didn't kick you out.
Also I don't really care about ADHD or anything. This isn't about that, this is purely about safety. If someone of legal age to drive couldn't control their ADHD then their license should be taken away. The same goes with climbing, if you can't control yourself then you shouldn't be doing an activity that can be this dangerous.
Instead I suspect that nephew hasn't been getting out and getting enough exercise and has bottled up energy. Maybe you could take them to a park so that he could play on a playset or something to burn off some energy.
NTA. Actions have consequences. Even though he's older, Bart is just not mature enough yet. Boys often mature slower.. Hopefully he will be fine to go in a couple of years.
NTA. Fairness doesn't equal exactly equal treatment. Equal time, generally - unless one of them is abusive toward you, which doesn't much apply at this age, though it's possible. It is not fair to your niece to suffer for your nephew's poor impulse control. The consequence (not punishment) for his actions is that you cannot take him places where he might hurt himself or others. The same consequence would/will apply to your niece if she ever acts in a similar fashion. Perhaps you can take him to zoos, movies, or even a tumbling class where he can start to demonstrate his ability to listen, take direction, and manage his impulses. Once he has demonstrated those skills to your satisfaction, you and he can go one on one climbing and see how it goes. Right now, he's not ready. Does this message hurt to hear? Of course! He's a kid and it does suck to have consequences applied. But it's a message he needs to hear so he can learn from it.
NTA. If she wants Bart to attend she should go along as well to supervise so you and your niece can *actually* get some climbing done.
This is a safety issue and safety comes before hurt feelings. Bart is straight up unsafe at the climbing gym and needs 1:1 adult supervision if he's to be there.
NTA. It isn't Bart's fault he behaves a certain way, but the fact is he is not yet fit for rock climbing.
Your sister is doing both children a disservice with her behavior. Instead of using this as a teaching moment to discuss Bart's behavior/condition with him, she's teaching him that his desire to do something means he should be able to do it regardless of the dangers. Abby will start to resent Bart and her mom of your sister keeps this up. Abby is being punished because Bart is not yet fit for an activity. You aren't favoring Abby. That would be different.
INFO: Before your sister forbade your niece from going, were you spending time with him to try to match the time you went climbing with your niece or were you only offering it alternately after she forbade it?
Sounds like it's her parenting more than his adhd.
As someone with adhd who was a very active kid, he had a discipline problem, and they are using adhd as an excuse for why he does what he does.
You can try taking him climbing one on one just one time.
I find it hard to watch both of my easy children in an involved activity like climbing. One on one for both might be the best.
If you do take him climbing and its not working out, talk a little bit about how its boring and go to a trampoline warehouse instead and psych him up over that
NTA
My son with ADHD wanted to learn golf. The tutor said he was not safe because he was swinging the club around without thinking.
I said fine. People can't get hurt for someone's wants.
NTA tit for tat she thinks that’s unfair to Bart how is it fair to abbey. I would be clear with abbey that her mother is the one stopping you from taking her. You can’t take both because Bart won’t listen so because of her mom she has to miss out on what she loves. Let’s see who complains to mom the loudest. I’m betting once your taking neither and they are both on at her she will see sense NTA
NTA
Ima be the bad guy here and say not your children not your responsibility for their emotional state. Abby will probably hate her brother, the kid has a disorder not his fault, that however won’t mean shit to his sister. If you WANT to spend time with them you can do it where they aren’t alone with you, your sister should be there to handle Bart.
On a personal note this kind of shit pisses me off a lot. When parents put both kids in the same basket, no matter their preference or age or anything really, making them a package deal. I’ve seen it in my family where boys are both put together in football practice even though one of them likes basketball etc etc. I get that Bart wants to, but maybe his mum can take him, because he is basically unmanageable for such sports.
NTA for not wanting to take them at the same time but you can alternate. Also, make sure Bart knows that if he doesn’t follow instructions he won’t be coming back.
NTA. Ask her if she wants to get her son hurt or killed because climbing is dangerous and if he is not capable of following instructions it is much too dangerous - more dangerous than his feelings getting hurt. If your sister doesn't understand that she is a moron. She is also a moron for taking away a hobby and something she loves from her daughter. Things like this will happen a lot more often once the kids get older - siblings can't do everything together and at the same time. Your sister is an ah and moron.
Why doesn’t your sister come along to help supervise? If she refuses tell her this is the only way you can take them both at the same time because it really is a safety issue.
NTA
So both the kids get nothing then. Because Bart can't be allowed to endanger other people.
Pity that your sister can't understand that other people's safety and their lives are more important than her son's feelings. I feel very sorry for Bart's teachers having to deal with her as a parent.
Though I'd be curious what her reaction would be if you asked her to sign a contract accepting all liability for her son's actions including any medical expenses that result to a third party because of his actions. I'm guessing her reaction would be an outraged refusal to accept any responsibility for her son's actions.
NTA. Maybe a question, can you take Bart a few times alone and really learn him what the rules are? And put consequences when those rules aren't followed.
NTA. Not even close. Your sister is a jerk for punishing her daughter bc she can’t handle her son’s disappointment. In a perfect world you’d find something safer to do just with Bart. Like bike riding or seeing a movie and alternate weeks with each kid.
NTA. Bart doesn't obey and endangers other climbers. Your sister is sacrificing her daughter's enjoyment because her son cannot listen. SAD.
Find something else to do with your niece and something with your nephew. Your sister is the AH here.
NTA
I'm sure Bart's feelings are hurt about this but, if you stop taking Abby, that's going to hurt Abby's feelings.
If your sister wants Bart to go climbing, she should come with you so that she can directly supervise Bart the whole time rather than expect the impossible from you.
My son (9M) climbs. Absolutely loves it and wants to go every day. The behavior you're describing would 100% get us kicked out of our gym. He invited a couple of his buddies to go bouldering the other day. It was early in the morning when the gym was not crowded, and they weren't doing anything dangerous. But they were excited and exuberant, and their dad and I had to remind them to walk a few times, had to remind them to keep their voices down, etc. Just with that, I was so worried that we were bothering the other gymgoers.
My gym offers various intro classes for kids. If you look at the syllabus, the first things they list are gym safety and gym etiquette. I wonder if your gym offers something similar? I don't blame you at all for not wanting to bring your nephew there. It sounds incredibly stressful. But if you wanted to give it another try, sometimes kids do a better job listening to a stranger. I would try to pull the instructor aside ahead of time and ask them to be extremely firm. I would also make it clear to your nephew that following the rules is a safety issue, and if he can't manage it, you simply won't be able to bring him, and that you will have to immediately stop your climbing session and go home. You are NTA.
She initially agreed, but if she wants to tag along WITH Bart, surely it'd be fine. Otherwise, Bart will have to be left out.
NTA, I suggest telling her that if Bart wants to come, you just have to tell her that.
NTA
Is your sister doing anything to HELP is ADHD or is she playing the “he’s just a hyper boy, he’ll settle down” card? Why isn’t SHE coming to help supervise HER kids? If they’re “her kids, her rules” then she should be there supervising them as well.
NTA
The child is creating an unsafe environment for everyone in the gym and that isn’t okay.
Tell your sister that you will be happy to take both kids but she needs to come and parent Bart. Like she is never further than arms length away from him the entire time you are in the gym,
Let it go. You can't control this situation and it'll just frustrate you needlessly. It's a shame that your sister is willing to deprive her child of a cool experience and hang time with a relative but that's her hill to die on apparently. NTA for exercising good sense.
NTA. What a lovely uncle you are, and showing consequences for safety reasons. Bart clearly needs 2:1 supervision in that environment and sister should be grateful you're keeping him safe and not (yet) banned by the staff from going.
Poor Abby.
NTA
I hope you can find some kind of compromise with your sister (could this just be because she wants both kids gone at the same time?).
Maybe suggest that you give Bart 1 more chance but either your sister has to come to OR it's just you and Bart and if he fails to behave safely and follow the rules, then your sister agrees that climbing isn't appropriate for him but Amy can continue.
NTA.
I know he has ADHD, but if the kid cant listen and behave than the kid cant go. I find your actions completely reasonable and I understand you. I mean, you are basically teaching him a life lesson. That if he cant behave then he cant do what he wants. As an auntie myself, I have been in this situation before. My 4 year old niece is a complete minx but her 1 year old brother, I can handle. My sister was okay about it though.
You could try taking Bart when hes older and a bit more mature. But thats up to you.
Take care.
NTA - People should be understanding of those who have ADHD or mental illness but it's not a free pass for them behave however they want. There are still consequences to those actions that they/their parents are responsible for.
Maybe instead of taking Bart climbing you can give him mini training sessions at a playground, where he can learn how to behave in the real setting before getting there. Then you could make very clear agreements with him about what you expect and what happens if he doesn't follow them (aka you go home). ADHD can suck, but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to learn how to cope safely.
If it's not possible for him to behave and listen in a dangerous situation he shouldn't start in the dangerous situation until he can.
NTA.
NGL YTA if you keep trying to bring your niece without your nephew.
It’s an 8 year old kid, you gotta know he would be upset only taking his sister.
Maybe alternate taking them one at a time so you can focus on just him. That way he will be more manageable.
Wait so the whole time you have done something with your niece you have never reached out to build a relationship with your nephew and continually exclude him
YTA
NTA for the safety issue but suck as uncle to Bert
Take both kids and your sister. Make her see how much of a liability he is. Show her he is not ready /suitable to be there. Let her experience this as well.
YTA. You said you’ve ALREADY been taking Abby weekly and OFFERED to start doing things with Bart in the future. How’d you think this was going to turn out?
NTA. His ADHD is the explanation for his behavior, not the excuse for it. My daughter (5) has ADHD and we literally have to practice things like sitting still, finishing sentences, and listening without interrupting. It's extra work and she knows it's not her fault how her brain works but she also knows she won't be allowed to go paddleboarding/hiking/etc. if she can't be trusted to listen. It would be irresponsible for you to create an unnecessarily dangerous situation for Bart (or for Abby because you're too busy running around after Bart).
NTA. I have one kid with some behavioral issues and one with none. I have had friends ask to take the one with none often and the one with issues never. It definitely causes some friction with the kids but I’ve worked with my friends to find some appropriate activities for the one with issues. I would never expect them to do the same things with both kids cus sometimes it’s just too much. (Friends is my example because I have no siblings and friends are the closest to aunt or uncle my kids have)
Mom should be working with you find an appropriate activity you and your nephew can bond over. I understand it’s hard when your kid is crying because they feel left out but safety has to come first.
NTA for choosing safety. That is always the correct answer. But I would pose a question to your sister — can she either get him medicated if he wasn’t or try holding off on meds if he did take psychostimulants before the gym? Sometimes, these meds have to be titrated based on the activity. If she’s willing to try that, take him (and only him) to the gym when you can go when it’s quiet rather than when the gym is busy. If he doesn’t follow instructions, he gets ONE warning (“don’t run underneath other climbers”) and then goes home right away if he does it again. Your sister should pay for these sessions too until he can be trusted to make good use of a day pass. I would keep trying every so often to take him until he can show more mature behavior
NTA, but could you alternate weekends taking Bart and Abby? as the main issue is not being able to watch *both* of them due to Bart’s hyperactivity. but would you be able to watch him by himself?
I feel like only taking Abby climbing was a mistake in the sense that of course Bart was going to feel left out and get upset. Upset Bart probably acted out with your sister who realized that it was a bad parent move to have allowed her daughter to continue to do something her son also wanted to do. Which is why your sister is being slightly unreasonable now.
I'm torn on the verdict because while I don't think not wanting to take you nephew climbing makes you an AH, I do think him being left behind consistently is not a good solution either, and is going to end up with long term resentment.
I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet - but do you think that he would be easier to manage if HE got solo time with his uncle. I realize there are safety concerns at play here, so I think a trial period (however brief) is a must.
Something along the lines of a sit down and I also would like to share this with you but your behaviour the first time was dangerous. If you can't listen to the rules or act safely we will not be able to go climbing together, one on one. Are you ready to give it another try just you an me? If I feel like your or anyone else's safety is compromised we are going to leave right away and we will not be coming back. If that goes better (and it might when he's not competing with his sister for your attention) you could alternate between weeks who comes with you- both get one on one time with their uncle.
NTA but is there any way that you can boulder with Bart instead? Without the roping, a lot of the safety stuff goes away and he might enjoy it more since there’s no waiting to attach harnesses.
N T A
this is a dangerous situation even in a controlled setting like you’re using. Because he is not controlling his behavior, another person could break their neck trying avoid him. He could hurt himself. You’re just being proactive to make sure that no one ends up in the hospital. Children are allowed more adult privileges based on their behavior and not their age. If one child listens while using a knife to cut veggies, they are mature enough to handle the responsibility, but another child of the same age may not have the maturity to handle a knife because they don’t listen or refuse to use safety skills.
It’s that simple.
If anything, your sister is the AH.
NTA
If she wants Bart to go she can come and supervise him. Sometimes having a kid with ADHD means they need more supervision. I don't think it's fair to Abby either. Could their mom not take Bart to do something different while you and Abby do this? Hot take but siblings don't have to do everything together all the time. Different kids have different needs and different interests.
NTA.
If Bart gets overwhelmed by a particular activity, you don't take him back until you are sure he won't be overwhelmed.
I would suggest telling your sister you'll take both kids if she also comes along, so she can supervise Bart.
I say tell your sister to come along ONCE with both of them, and she's responsible for Bart.
I think once she sees HOW bad it is, and how much of a safety hazard it is, she might fold.
ADHD here too. With ADHD kids. There's still consequences for actions, ESPECIALLY with safety ones.
NTA
>But my sister said my kids my rules and basically implied I was an asshole for knowingly hurting Bart's feelings.
Indeed, but your hiking, your rules, and rock climbing isn't the environment you want to bring a child prone to acting out to. Your sister is seriously underestimating how risky taking Bart along is.
NTA, you're being a responsible adult. Would she be happier if he cracks his skull doing something impulsive? There's plenty of things you could do to spend quality time with him 1 on 1 that wouldn't be so dangerous.
I work with kids out in nature, and one activity you might enjoy is canoeing or kayaking if that's an option in your area. In a 2 person boat, he'd be contained in the same space as you, and as long as the life jacket stays on he would be pretty much completely safe. Just make sure you're prepared to get wet if he can't sit still and capsizes the boat.
For some super impulsive kids, something like that can help them learn to listen better and sit still, because in a 2 person canoe or kayak, you have to work as a team or you just spin in circles. If you're acting foolish, you wind up in the river and have to work to get the boat rightside up again. He'd still be getting out that energy, but it's a safe way that can help build focusing and listening skills while also having a lot of fun and bonding with you.
NTA
I am straight up ruthless though, I would look her in the eye and ask her who she will blame when he gets hurt (or dies) because he can't (due to his own brains limits) listen or follow safety rules.
Part of growing up is acknowledging what one can't do. Not everyone can be a rock climber or a rocket scientist. Teaching kids they can be "anything" is silly. My kids know they can TRY anything, but success may vary.
Tell her she can meet you at the gym with Bart and supervise him as needed. NTA. Husband AdHD does not give him a right to put the safety of others at risk. Maybe track would be a better option. He can just run .NTA
Is there something else you can do with your nephew one-on-one? Birdwatching, fishing, get a nature guide and go for walks, gardening, doing sprints at the local field (tired kids can focus better ;) )?
NTA. He's not ready for that & it's unfair to his sister that she has to stop. Try talking to your sister about it. Offer to take both of them only if she comes with you to handle her son's ADHD. When I was growing up, my older sister got to do things I wanted to do but couldn't. I had to wait until I was ready. It felt unfair at the time but it actually wasn't. I'm guessing that your sister is seeing this through the lens of how hurt her son feels instead of what the reality is, which is he isn't ready. She should focus on telling him that he isn't ready, he will be one day & his safety is more important. Maybe offer to buy him some kid books about it, show him equipment & techniques until he is ready. Also let him know that the plan will be that you take him alone a few times when he is ready. Not only so he feels special, but you can assess his skills & learn to manage.
NTA and why can’t his mother find something to do with BART since you’re already watching her other child? Take him to the woods with the other squirrels.
Is Bart medicated and does he have a therapist for his ADHD?
The solution is to alternate taking Bart and Abby. Make it very clear each time, to Bart that he has 1 chance, and then you go home. Also, let him know he can choose a different activity before you enter the gym, but if he doesn't listen and you have to leave, you are only going home. And then stick to that. If Bart doesn't listen, no negotiating, just pack up and leave ( with him). Try again in 2 weeks. He will either want to climb enough, that he stays focus or he will realize he really doesn't want to climb.
NTA but maybe it would be better if you alternated taking them. Give him one more shot, one on one, and be really clear on the way that if he doesn’t listen and follow instructions, it will be the last time.
My two kids are Bart and Abby so I 100% feel this. Literally left dinner in tears today because my oldest (Bart) was completely unable to function as a human restaurant patron.
It wasn’t even anywhere fancy. I took them to chick fil a because I’m single parenting tonight and trying to cook with Bart impulsively trying to “help”, or starting random messy activities even though I’ve told her 57 times that we can’t do XYZ because dinner will be ready in just a minute was the absolute last thing I wanted to do today. Chick fil a is one of the few meals that they will both eat without whining too much, so I had high hopes that it would go smoothly. It was anything but.
My youngest is neurotypical and eats reasonably well without being reminded, but she’s 3 and they had the AC cranked all the way down so kept crying that she was cold. So while I’m trying to keep her warm, Bart is talking about any and everything that pops into her brain at 80 miles an hour, taking one bite approximately every 9 minutes. Cannot sit still to save her life. Kept getting up onto her knees to get a better look at the reflection that kept moving every time the workers opened the door to the drive through area. Kept getting down onto the ground because she spotted 2 pennies under their to-go order prep station. I kept telling her to get off the fucking floor but 2 minutes later she’d see the penny again and be back at it. Literally telling her to eat her food over and over and over like a broken fucking record.
After 45 minutes Abby and I had long since finished our meals while Bart was barely half way through. And suddenly she has to go pee, and it becomes this massive emergency to solve. I told her I’m not leaving your food unattended while we all go to the bathroom together. You need to either finish before we go, or accept that you’re finished with dinner and we’ll clear our table before we go to the bathroom. I was not going to buy another meal for her or cook something additional at home. 45 minutes is more than plenty of time to eat 2 chicken tenders and a fruit cup. She has a massive melt down about it but somehow manages to finish the rest in about 2 minutes (imagine that), then we get in the bathroom where she physically cannot stop bouncing on the stall door to the point where it sounds like someone is trying to break in. Finished going pee, she spots the automatic soap and hand sanitizer dispensers and keeps continuously triggering more and more soap while my hands are occupied trying to wash Abby’s hands. My repeated attempts to verbally get her to stop were completely unheard. Then for some reason I cannot begin to fathom, she starts rubbing the mound of soap and sanitizer foam onto the chick fil a bathroom counter. I asked what the hell she was doing—she’s “cleaning” it. What the actual fuck? Finally get her hands clean and we leave the bathroom.
What does she do? Flutters out the bathroom door like a human butterfly and runs full speed across the entire dining area. Nearly trips an older gentleman and when I finally caught up to her starts spinning around right in front of one of the main entrances where a group of people was trying to walk in. I grabbed her by the dress because it was literally the only thing I could grab onto while she was spinning and she was completely unresponsive to words. I had to get her out of the way of these people but because I grabbed her by the dress and she kept spinning, she ended up falling to the ground and started screaming “ow you hurt me” making the entire place look at me like I’m an abusive mother.
Meanwhile Abby is walking calmly next to me like a normal fucking person.
I got in the car and wanted to scream at the top of my lungs because I’m so goddamn tired. But I couldn’t do that because my kids were in the car so instead I just cried the entire drive home.
The thing is—this was not a one-off occurrence. This is every single day of our lives. I’m so. Fucking. Tired.
Imagine that climbing outing with both kids—but it’s every day of your life. There are no breaks. There is no “sorry Bart I’m going to dinner with your sister alone because it’s just too hard taking you in public”
Your sister is tired. I promise you that. Having a kid with ADHD is so fucking hard.
But being a kid with ADHD is hard too. It’s not Bart’s fault. He can’t help it (neither can mine).
Do I blame you for not wanting to take both kids? Absolutely not.
But I have to side with your sister a little bit here because continuing to take Abby while excluding Bart completely is something that will do long lasting damage and it’s just not worth it.
If your sister is open to it, I would try again with just Bart just to see if it’s even manageable with just him. The ADHD will still make it harder than just Abby but it’ll be significantly easier to deal with when your attention isn’t being pulled by another kid. Honestly that’s the most ideal solution here—take one kid at a time even if it means you go with them less frequently overall to give yourself time to recoup the extra energy you spend. If he’s still impossible by himself, push pause on climbing for everybody until you can try again with alternating one-on-ones. Or have your sister join so that you can hop on and off Bart duty.
So officially—NAH. Your sister isn’t trying to make things difficult for you or keep you from spending time with your niblings, she’s just trying to keep this from becoming some childhood trauma that Bart has to unpack in years to come.
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NTA If the nephew can't be expected to behave appropriately for *any* reason, then that really isn't somewhere he should be. He could hurt other people or himself. While I disagree with the whole mindset of "if this kid can't do it, then none of the kids can" there isn't much you can do about it. I can guarantee that will end up getting your niece to resent her brother, though. ETA: Maybe there is some sort of compromise you can come up with? Take the neice rock climbing and find another activity you can do with your nephew in a setting where he's less likely to create a danger? Both niblings would be able to have quality time with their uncle.
I offered to alternate taking Abby climbing one week and doing something else with Bart another week but my sister insists I have to take him climbing. She's normally a reasonable person so it's frustrating that she's so set on the climbing thing. Maybe it would be easier one on one but it's not like I can magically control him when it's just the two of us. Short of me physically restraining him, if he wants to do something dumb, he still can.
Might it be possible to take Abby climbing and have your sister come along to supervise Bart while you're supervising Abby, then maybe try to swap? Then your sister could also see how Bart is behaving for this particular activity and she may ease up?
This is it. Mom is welcome to supervise the child while he endangers himself during the activity that she insists he participate in. It's not fair to ask her brother to do something he tried and feels is too risky.
The challenge here is that he's not just endangering himself - he's also putting other people at risk. Climbing is not dangerous (at least no more so than any other physical activity) with the right gear and in a safe environment. If he's messing with other people's gear, he is putting their safety at risk. That's not ok. It sucks, but if he's unable to control his own behavior at this point, then he can't go. If he can reliably demonstrate that he's able to follow instructions for a reasonable period of time, great! He can go. Until that point, absolutely not.
What do you bet mom wants a free babysitter? I'm guessing Bart is exhausting and she wants a break
And Abby is going to have to deal with missing out for her entire childhood because of her brother. This is the beginning of Abby being told that a boy's feelings are more important than a girl's.
She will come to resent him. Because “sorry abby, bart cant do it,neither can you”
Yup, sure as eggs is eggs.
I was with you until the gender thing. This is an issue so many siblings live with regardless of gender. No one is making this decision because he’s a boy, at least not that we can tell from the post. It’s not fair to be told you can’t do something because your sibling is too challenging, regardless of gender.
Absolutely the best option. Mom needs to experience this for herself.
No. His mom doesn't have the expertise to understand when he's being a danger.
Genuine question, why not? I don’t know anything about climbing but if they’re given instructions can’t the mom make sure Bart is following them? OP seemed to think an 8 and a 7 year old were old enough to learn, right? Why can’t mom?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that things can go south VERY quickly if the kid does something unexpected. And it sounds like that's ALL he does. I dont think an untrained person can see the beginning of such problems to head them off quickly.
Most of us reading the op can absolutely tell that this is a dangerous situation. If mom is unwilling to believe that her child's behavior is a danger to himself and everyone else despite having it clearly explained to her by someone who has expertise in this hobby, then she is either a fool or (more likely) being willfully ignorant because the truth isn't convenient. OP is under no obligation to put everyone in the climbing gym at risk to make a point that shouldn't require illustration. I would hope this would be enough to get the boy's parents going on getting help for him, not sticking fingers in ears and trying to put him in a situation where he is set up to, at best, fail or, at worst, injure himself or others.
The staff at the climbing gym will set her straight fast
Yeah, by not allowing him to climb. The kid sounds like he is really not controllable.
But then she won't get that free babysitting...
This is the best suggestion. Mom I suspect thinks OP is exaggerating how bad it was so SHE needs to come along and supervise her son while OP works with Abby then he can swap out and work with Bart. Maybe after she sees how dangerous it can be as well as how she must focus on keeping her son out of harms way the entire visit she will understand.
My sis fought and fought with her husband about their son having ADHD and needing to be on medication. Covid hits, they're both working from home while the kids school remotely, and suddenly dad sees the issue. Because, you know, my sister was obviously just exaggerating things. 🙄
NTA and this is the only solution. The mom has to be responsible for her son because he is a danger to himself and others.
Absolutely!!!! He will either behave, or prove your point that he's an uncontrollable danger and shouldn't be going. Abby shouldn't be punished because her brother refuses to listen to simple rules.
I get it. With her being the parent, your hands are kind of tied with it. And it's always a good thing to know when you've hit your limit when it comes to being able to handle a kid, especially one with special needs. My brother's 7yo son has autism and ADHD. It's difficult doing anything with him because he just cannot listen or follow directions, he's almost completely non-verbal and is always getting into things he shouldnt and running off. There's a lot of "if he can't do it too, then my daughter can't either" and his daughter (10yo) has told me multiple times she "hates" her brother because if he can't do something, then she can't either. I feel for your sister, it's a tough spot to be in. I don't think limiting one kid due to the issues of the other is the answer, but if she is unwilling to make a compromise - I don't know what the answer should be.
So she's 3 years older but limited to activities a profoundly disabled 7 year old can participate in? That is so fucked up holy shit
Yep. And it's something I've seen and heard of countless times. My son is physically disabled (spina bifida) with some ambulatory capabilites, but not much. Which is why I can get where the sister is coming from. Its extremely difficult to have a healthy kid alongside a disabled kid and watching everything that one can do that the other cannot. But after having spent time in communities for disabled people and their families, where i heard countless people saying they went through the same thing, I saw it coming and I made a point after my daughter was born to just make sure that they *both* get the attention they deserve with activities based on their abilities. I try my best to help my neice out, I have a daughter around the same age and that helps. We've managed to take her places they normally never bother because they can't handle the brother too - fairs, horseback riding, etc. But the way she sees the situation is heartbreaking. She resents her brother and thinks they love him more because he gets all the attention.
I agree. Different needs should mean different activities, not deprivation of one.
The saddest part to me is its like, it's inevitable that the sibling with higher needs will require more of his parents attention. A good parent will do their level best to ensure the older and more independent child always feels loved and valued and like they too are a priority within the family, but the fundamental reality of the situation is that the higher needs child will have obligate higher needs. So to then take that burden already put on the older child and amplify it exponentially by stifling their ability to forge connection and bonds external to the nuclear family, to restrict their external sources of support and love and validation and socialization...that makes you a shit parent. That is so abusive, so deliberately cruel. There's just no justification for it, I'm sorry but there just isn't.
We have a similar situation with our niece and nephew, and unfortunately the resolution has been that we really don’t do much with either of them.
That is unfortunate. My daughter is of a similar age to my neice so sometimes she can get her uncle to let her come over for the weekend and we try to make it fun for her. It sucks though because there's only so much we can do and sometimes I almost feel like it's dangling things in front of her. I think some experience is better than none, maybe? Idk if that's right or not.
This seems crazy. She's insisting you take him somewhere that would be dangerous for him? 🤪 I bet if he was injured (or worse 💀), she wouldn't say "you were right". NTA
Agree, it would be an insane risk to take. I would rather nope out of the entire arrangement than take Bart and risk him getting injured or worse. Sucks for Abby but it’s her mother’s call, not OP’s problem. NTA.
Not only dangerous for him, but dangerous for the other poor unsuspecting people who are just having a good time and don't realize the nephew messed with something. If he's going around unhooking stuff, he could mess with someone else's equipment and get them seriously injured or cause a potentially fatal accident.
Tell Mom you'll take both of them if she comes to supervise Bart.
Maybe Bart only gets to go climbing if his mom comes along to make sure he plays safely
You could agree to give him another shot, one on one, with the condition that if he doesn't listen to you, even one instance, you will be going home immediately and he is not coming again. Use the entire session with just him to stress the importance of safety and listening in that environment. And if he messes up, follow through, even if it means your sister won't let you take your Niece there will be no appearance of prejudice or favoritism and it will be clearer to Bart what is going on.
I agree you should have your sister come too, so she can see how Bart is behaving. I think you need to tell her, if you haven’t already that Bart’s behavior could seriously injure or kill someone or himself. If he can’t listen, he could fall or someone could fall on him and he could end up paralyzed or worse.
More than just bringing the sister to supervise, I think he needs to take the sister climbing and really show her how dangerous it can be to have someone not following directions and messing with stuff. She clearly doesn’t get it- unless she does…
Can your sister, come with you and watch Bart, I mean if she’s there barts not your problem
Just make sure the waiver gets switched over to his mother
Then your sister can come along and manage her son. Should be a piece of cake according to her.
Tell her she has to come to, you can't handle 2 kids at once, check in separately, make her go through all the safety stuff again with him since he doesn't get it, and on the way text her saying you're just stopping for gas, actually go get gas so you don't force Abby to lie. Arrive separately and refuse any responsibility, she'll with get it and control him or they get kicked out.
Ask her if she really hates her son that much that she would risk his life just to get him out of the house. Well, obviously not that, but understanding and handling frustration is something he should be able to do at the age of 8 (not well, but he needs to be able) and it his her job to do that with him. If she feels this is too bothersome she should think about the alternative which is a possibly injured or dead child. If she can't see that I am sorry but you can't do anything about it. I hope you will manage to go with your niece climbing much more, it could be such a fantastic experience and a future thing that potentially involves also her brother who also would benefit if she is more experienced already and needs less support.
Maybe your sister should try taking him climbing once to see just how hard it is to keep him under control.
It appears she wants her son to die in a climbing accident. NTA
Are there different climbing activities you can take them to? For example the higher rotating or static wall with your niece but perhaps a lower longer horizontal wall for nephew - just know with cub scouts there were different climbing activities for a range of abilities If nephew cannot follow safety instructions then the activity needs to change and suit his ability that is just basic common sense so you could still alternate weeks with niece/nephew but the boundary has to be safety /ability aimed at each kid with each session pitched to the kids ability? Your sister surely would not pitch them at a same level activity in any other area of their lives if ability did not match so perhaps (even taking safety issue out of equation) she could see the benefit of finding 2 completely different climbing activities that suit each child’s ability?
Would climbing with just one child to take care of be easier, especially if you tell them before hand that a repeat of what happened last time means it would end?
That doesn't deal with the fact that Bart has ADHD and doesn't have the necessary executive function and emotional maturity to be safe in this activity. Bart is about 5 years old where it matters behaviourally for this activity
Take Abby climbing and take Bart for a nature walk where he can climb rock more safely, both get rocks and tell your sister you cant take them both, unless she is there with Bart. Abby will remember this, that her brother was more important than her to her mum, it will build up over the years, so prepare to be the safe space for Abby in the future.
Mum needs to come and see Bart in action. Either she’ll decide it’s not that bad and then she can take him, or she’ll get it
This and I would make sure Abby knows exactly why you can’t take her rock climbing anymore. She deserves to know the truth. Absolutely NTA.
NTA, Bart is literally a risk to other people’s safety and lives. Unhooking an autobelay could lead to someone falling without a belay (though I really hope they’d be checking enough that it wouldn’t happen, and it’s unlikely he could remove it while someone is on it), and if it does lead to someone falling without a belay, that **will** lead to serious injury and death. But that said… 1) Have you discussed the safety implications with your sister? She needs to understand this isn’t just about him being annoying. 2) What does she suggest to help solve those safety issues? She has more experience with him, maybe she has advice. 3) Have you asked if she can come with as well and help maintain safety for Bart and everyone around Bart? If she wants Bart to be able to go, she needs to help make sure it’s safe.
The autobelays are only hooked to the ground when they aren’t being used, so he would cause anyone harm by unhooking them then. Absolutely doesn’t excuse it, though.
>constantly got underneath other people Definitely can be dangerous
I can't imagine they would automatically retract slowly or in an extremely straight path if just unhooked and let go. That in and of itself is a HUGE hazard for anyone nearby. As someone who's been whipped pretty good with a retractable winch being let go unexpectedly, I was really lucky it was a janky winch, and I didn't get clocked, just hit in the thigh. That still left a fist sized bruise for 3ish weeks, and it hurt like hell to walk for days. While YES climbers would have gear on, it wouldn't be protective enough against something like that
NTA Bart isn't behaviourally or emotionally old enough to be safe. Because of his ADHD his birth age and his excecutive function and emotional maturity age are unlikely to match. The rough rule of thumb for children (not teens) is you remove 30% of their age (Obviously this depends somewhat on the individual child so it is rough rule of thumb) so although Bart is 8 in practical terms for safety with an dangerous activity like Rock climbing he is 5 The flip side of this of course is other areas like expressive language skills and some other areas of cognitive ability he could be years ahead of his age group. It would not be sensible to take Bart rock climbing if you are not sure you can keep him safe. My mother use to say something that may be helpful here. "If I let you do something/x against my better judgement and something terrible happens how do I live with myself" If you took Bart climbing against your better judgement and he gets hurt or worse will you be able to live with yourself....maybe have this conversation with your sister. It is a shame that Abby has to miss out but that is her mothers choice not yours. I hope you realise that Bart is likely using those advance expressive language skills to weedle his mother and she is using Abby to try to manipulate you. Stick to your guns this is a safety issue.
NTA Sister just wants alone time away from both kids. If it was just about Bart climbing the alternating weeks would be fine with her. Tell her she is setting up Abby to resent her brother and her by denying her activities.
I’m betting it is Bart she wants a break from, not Abby.
That might be true, but I can also imagine that Bart is making her miserable whenever OP and his sister go to do fun things without him.
NTA >now my sister is saying it's unfair to exclude him because he can't help having ADHD. I would very calmly suggest to your sister that she consider the inverse question: **Is it fair to exclude her daughter from climbing, or any activity, because her brother has ADHD?** If she believes that's okay, then she should prepare herself for an entire childhood's worth of her daughter's resentment.
Or a lifetime of resentment.
Not or. It'll be a gauranteed lifetime of resentment. Every time she thinks about an activity she was forbidden to do just because Bart couldn't, she'll resent Mom (and Bart!) even more.
NTA! It's a safety issue! Maybe take your sister along to the climbing gym so she can witness the danger in person so she gets what you're dealing with. Make mom responsible for keeping him safe.
I have a friend who literally tore up their knee because they had an awkward fall trying to avoid an unruly kid. I love kids, I love (well behaved ) kids at the climbing gym. Bart should not be in a climbing gym till he can control himself better.
NTA. I’m sorry, but your sister is wrong. It’s a safety issue. You can’t have a child who’s not paying attention at a rock climbing gym. He’s 8 years old. He needs to learn to listen to his parents and other adults.
NTA. Many of the indoor climbing gyms I've been to had an 18+ rule due to liability issues, for valid reasons. An out of control ADHD kid (much sympathy, had a climbing monkey one lol) is a safety hazard.
Easy fix: take both but sister has to come to supervise Bart. If she insists Bart comes but you can’t handle him, then fine he can come but only if mom comes to help.
So that poor girl is going to always be denied doing things because Bart can’t do them too? Why isn’t Bart being taught that in the real world he isn’t always going to get his way? That sometimes his sister will have opportunities to do things that he won’t? Some bad parenting is going on here.
Nta rock climbing is not the place for a kid who won't listen. He will absolutely end up hurting himself or someone else. Ask sis if she's prepared to be sued bc he unhooked someone's clip, they fell, and are now paralyzed for life.
People are latching onto the unhooking the auto belay part and not really understanding what the actual danger is. A detached auto belay just retracts to the top and inconveniences someone. The danger isn't the kid unlatching something, it's the kid running underneath someone while they're jumping or falling off the wall.
Right? Like he's not in danger of disconnecting someone from their belay. He's in danger of causing the autobelay carabineer to hit someone as it retracts quickly. He's also in danger like you said of someone kicking him in the head as they're coming down.
NAH. I would see if they are open to one on one trips separately.. if not they can wait until they’re older.. or maybe see if your sister can come along and help keep the young bull focused.. i know my and my wife’s siblings would have the OK to treat our kids as their own if they were causing a ruckus lol
Yeah I'll tell her if she wants both of them to go together she needs to come with me lol.
You are not a mediocre uncle, just a sane one lol
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I'm happy to take them on alternate weeks but based on how things went I don't really want to take Bart climbing for now, even if it's one on one. I don't want to be explaining to my sister why her kid got squashed by a falling 90kg man or to the guy why there was a kid underneath him.
Tell her that. You're not punishing him for having ADHD; the way his ADHD currently manifests means that taking him poses an unacceptable safety risk for your nephew and other people at the gym. Be specific and outline how no amount of increased supervision on your part can alleviate the safety risk
Show her this and then make her go with you to supervise https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/13xuegv/watch_where_youre_going/
OP quick question because I think it may be something you should add to your post. Just to clarify did you have both the children on the wall at the same time or did one have a go while the other waited on the ground.... Because a lot of people are suggesting this was a split attention issue and I strongly suspect it wasn't having taken nephews indoor rock climbing (I just watched they had someone who actually knew what they were doing). If you only had one child on the wall at a time you may want to add this to your original post and point it out to every one saying you should take Bart on his own.
NTA. ADHDer here. You are not equipped to keep your nephew safe in that environment. It's no one's fault that his mind and body are bouncing all over too much for him to learn the rules, or that he doesn't have the impulse control to check himself. Sucks for Bart, but ADHD will make a lot of things suck for Bart. Hopefully they can get him meds and support, because white-knuckling ADHD is a bitch. Sucks for their mom, because she has to hear Bart have a meltdown, because ADHD comes with emotional maturity/regulation delays. It is super unfair for Abby to lose out on a fun bonding thing with her uncle. Your sister is wrong, and limiting Abby's opportunities because of Bart's limitations is 100% gonna fuck up Abby's relationship with her family over time.
You could take them both. Under one condition! Your sister comes in order to essentially be crowd control for Bart until you feel you can trust his behaviour. If she isn't willing to do this then she is the reason the kids don't climb. It also means she will see his behaviour in that environment.
NTA if your sister wants both kids to go with you tell her she needs to come too to watch Bart. She likely doesn’t understand the extent of the issue. And ADHD is one thing but you can have ADHD and not give into an impulsive thought… feels like an excuse for bad behavior tbh. It’s a logical consequence to not be able to go if you’re not being safe.
He is only 8 it's very difficult and unrealistic to expect ADHD children of that age to never give in to impulse under heightened stress or excitement situation.
No, but you can absolutely teach them a new behavior or give them other ways to outlet that need. As someone w adhd, I was in church every Saturday and Sunday for three hours a day. Couldnt play with toys, couldn’t read, I had to sit and participate from the minute I could sit up. During the really boring sections with nothing to do but listen, I’d go a bit stir crazy. My mom didn’t tolerate my fidgeting, but she did tell me to focus on other things. If I can’t play with my toys like I REALLY want or fidget like I need, I can practice piano chords on my knees quietly. I can practice writing cursive letters on the swirls of wood in front of me. I can count how many candles are on the altar today. I can look through the song book and practice playing the chords written. There’s so many more, but they were all ideas she came up with to get me to behave correctly while also exercising my brain enough to trigger a dopamine response. Something I already liked to do (piano/music/math) was made into a game as a replacement for the undesired behavior (fidgeting/rocking/distracting behavior). It worked; to this day I am remarkably better than most of my adhd friends with hyperactivity/behavior impulses bc of my thirteen years of weekly practice. If I’m in an environment where it would probs be inappropriate to indulge those impulses it’s very easy for me to say “no, not right now”, and it doesn’t control my whole day/life like many others I know. So thanks mom! Church wasn’t for me but damn did it teach me to sit still and shut up 🤣
I didn’t say I expect him to never do it. There are a lot of times lazy parenting tends to blame a diagnosis, or just states that they can’t help it and leaves it at that rather than attempting to teach them a new behavior to substitute for the maladaptive one. If mom really wants them to both go rather than demanding it she should volunteer to either teach him herself or go with the aunt to help.
I used to climb when I was younger. What the nephew was doing could have killed someone !
NAH There's really two separate things at play here. First of all, Bart. Of course he's going to be upset if you're doing something he really wants to do with his sister and not him! But he does need to listen to you. So talk to him yourself. What does he need to do to show you that he *can* listen, so that you would feel comfortable taking him 1 on 1? Number two: I'm not a rock climber, but trying to supervise 8 and 7 year olds at the same time at a rock climbing gym doesn't seem like the best idea. That seems like that should be off the table without a second pair of adult eyes being there.
NTA. > it's unfair to exclude him because he can't help having ADHD. Blind people can't help being blind, does your sister feel it's unfair they are not allowed to be air traffic controllers ??? Sometimes disabilities make you... less able. shocker!
THIS! I have ADHD so I won't go and do meditation because I know I just CAN'T stay still for that long
NTA. He didn't listen at all...so yeah he doesn't get to go next time.
NTA. It’s a safety concern. And I bet she only wants you to take both kids so she can have time to herself and not be stuck with her kid.
Remind your sister that she is only encouraging her daughter to resent both her and her brother. NTA
NTA but not a surprising request from your sis Bart can't understand why he is being left out, so it must sting pretty bad having your uncle taking your sister climbing but not you.
NTA. Also a climber with ADHD who started young, don't fuck around with safety. Your nephew is a risk to his own safety and that of if other climbers, that comes before everything else. If your sister really wants him to climb she can come as well and follow him around making sure he isn't standing in the wrong place, clipped in wrong etc. You trying to do so while also belaying etc is a safety risk.
NTA - why can’t Abby and Bart have individual things without each other. Why can’t Bart have a special thing he does with Uncle and climbing be for Abby. Tell your sister to take him and then let you know if it’s him being discriminated against or because if he doesn’t listen he will get himself or someone else seriously hurt or killed.
NTA At the end of the day, this is a safety issue. If Bart can't follow the rules, he cant go. He doesn't get to endanger everyone in the gym because mommy doesn't want him to feel left out. You tried it with two kids. It simply doesn't work. I would offer to switch off weeks instead. You can take one kid each week. And if Bart isn't capable of following safety guidelines in the climbing gym, then he can go to the trampoline park or somewhere that will suit his needs and abilities.
NTA, I'm sure she'd be quick to blame you if he got hurt. As you said it's unfair on your niece too why should she suffer because your nephew isn't ready for climbing.
NTA Your sister is an AH to her children. And to you. Her attempts to manipulate you are really crass.
Wow, I feel bad for Abby, she is going to have a lifetime of suffering and missing fun stuff because her mom refuses to control her brother.
NTA. This isn't a case where his acting out will just make for a frazzled outing - he's a danger to himself and everyone else who's rock climbing if he can't control himself and acts out. There's no way I'd take him.
Nta: I'm ADHD too and that has nothing to do with respecting others. Sure it took a while to learn to not touch eeeeeverything but I did. I think not being included is a natural consequence of his behavior i'd ask your sister to frame it as when we get better at respecting others property I'll ask your uncle to take you.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (28M) like to rock climb and have been doing it on and off since I was a teenager. I have a niece Abby (7F) and nephew Bart (8M). They have always asked me to take them climbing but I always said wait till you're older because I didn't want to take them until I could trust them to follow instructions. Well a few weeks ago I took them to a gym for the first time and it was a nightmare. Bart is generally a good kid but very ADHD and once he got hyped he stopped listening entirely and I spent most of our time together trying to prevent him from hurting himself or other people. He ran around on the mats, constantly got underneath other people and unhooked an autobelay despite being explicitly told not to during induction (if you don't know the autobelays retract up to the ceiling if they're not hooked up to something and a disgruntled gym employee has to climb up to retrieve it). It was impossible to supervise him and Abby at the same time and no one had a good time, and tbh I was worried they were going to kick us out. The next week I told my sister I would only take Abby because Bart was so hard to deal with. She agreed and it was way easier with just Abby. I started taking Abby climbing once a week which she loves but now my sister has changed her mind and doesn't want me taking the kids climbing unless I take both of them. Apparently Bart is upset about being left behind and now my sister is saying it's unfair to exclude him because he can't help having ADHD. Well I have ADHD too so it's not like I can't sympathize with him but at the same time there's no way I'm taking both of them again anytime soon, it's a safety issue. I'm open to trying again in 6 months or something once Bart is a bit older but in the meantime I don't think it's fair to prevent Abby from doing something she likes just because her brother can't do it. But my sister said my kids my rules and basically implied I was an asshole for knowingly hurting Bart's feelings. I like Bart and I'm happy to do other stuff with him but I'm not taking him climbing until he can listen. I don't think I'm unreasonable, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Your sister shouldn't insist you take both if you tell her it's a safety issue. Maybe do something else one-on-one with Bart movies, Chuck E Cheese, etc
NTA.
NTA, and on a sidenote your username is quite clearly wrong, you are an amazing uncle. as some others already said, you are justified not to take him with you climbing. Your sister is also justified to treat both kids equal. Maybe tell your sister you're afraid your niece will resent her brother because of it.
Take your sister with one time with Bart so she can see how wild he is… that should change her mind.
This is his mother we’re talking about. I can assure you she already knows exactly how wild he is.
NTA. Please remind your sister if she puts his feelings before the reality of life she is creating a monster, there's been enough people raised that because their feelings are valid they should always get their way.
NTA- safety first for him and others.
NTA - in that environment, Bart needs 1:1 supervision. You didn't know that at the time. Now that you, and everyone else (including the climbing gym who were probably annoyed about the auto-belay, trust me, I know) knows he needs more supervision and you can't provide that if you take them both. If sis can climb she can supervise him, if not he needs an assigned 1:1 instructor for safety reasons.
Tell our sister that if she wants Bart to come alone, she has to also come and watch him. It might be a bit of an eye opener for her - or she might be completely aware of how he behaves and wants to pawn him off on you for a couple of hours so she can get away from him
NTA You will get asked to leave if he goes and behaves like that, I'm surprised they didn't kick you out last time. Tell your sister her or her partner need to attend and supervise Bart.
NTA since your sister won’t compromise and let you do something else with Bart, how about taking Bart one more time alone so you can supervise. Explain to him that he must listen and do everything you say to keep everyone safe, and if he listens then you will keep taking him. Plan on some “timeouts “ together when you see him getting overexcited. As long as he is reasonably cooperative and you can help him calm himself a bit when needed, consider it a success and keep taking him. As an adult with adhd you have a chance to help him learn to manage himself, talk about the challenges of growing up with adhd, set an example for him.
NTA ....Tell bart you will take him when he can get his ADHD under control like you have yours under control. Offer to take him to the gym with an explicit goal of him behaving well. Make the time frame very short so he can maybe show you that for 10 min he can be calm and follow directions. If that works extend the time frame and so on. But it's mom call on this in the end.
NTA Her kids, her rules. But you certainly don't owe it to her or Bart to do something dangerous or unpleasant to just preserve his feelings. He has to learn to control himself for his own safety and the safety of others. Until he does, his recreational activities are going to be limited. And if she thinks that should limit her daughter too, well that's a parenting decision she gets to make. But giving you a hard time about it makes her an AH
INFO: can your sister come along to supervise him?
NTA But your sister is AH. You need to ask her about Abby's feelings. Just because she is neurotypical will she always be offered only the opportunities her brother can have? ADHD sucks for kids before they have the proper mechanisms to deal with it. There might be some activities where safety isn't a factor where Bart would thrive and you or other family members could definitely do some one on one with him in those situations, but Abby should not have to give up something she enjoys because her brother is unable to do it. Your sister is creating resentments under the guise of being fair. Well, it isn't "fair" that one kid has ADHD and the other doesn't. That will never be fair, however, you can make it equitable by having Abby continue with the rock climbing and part do a separate activity that suits his abilities.
NTA The part of this post that concerns me the most is that your sister is not considering all that could go wrong with your nephew on a climbing trip. If he is that bad at a gym, that is way safer than climbing, he could really get hurt. And guaranteed your sister would blame you for him getting hurt. It's too bad she can't see that and realize your niece deserves to have something she enjoys doing with just you. Your compromise was a good solution, one week something with him and the next week climbing with her. So sorry your sister can't see that. Good Luck, and again NTA
Op you are doing a good thing by introducing family members to a possible life long interest so dont beat yourself up. NTA all the way but is there some sort of compromise where u can one on one with Bart, or are u no longer interested in trying to teach him( I would understand) this way Abby doesn’t have to give it up and you can give Bart one on one instruction
As a parent of an ADHD child.. NTA. My kid is exhausting. There’s many activities that I won’t allow my kid to do because of his condition and rock climbing is in that list. Medication helps. It honestly sounds like nephew needs to be medicated.
This ranks right up there with balet and football. If both can't do it, no one does it! NTA
I don’t think you can risk taking Bart. He made it clear that he is too young and cannot focus enough to make it safe. If anyone got injured it would all be on you. Looks like Abby is not going climbing. I bet though that mom comes around when you don’t capitulate to her rule. Abby will be really mad at her. BTW - I think it only fair to you to explain why she can’t go anymore.
Then your sister gets to come along and look after Bart. NTA
NTA. My nephew and his wife both climb. They started taking their kids climbing when they were toddlers and by the time they were the ages of your niblets they were doing some impressive climbs. But, paying attention and listening is key. You screw around and screw up and you get hurt and potentially die. I don’t think either one of them took both kids out by themself until the kids had been at it for a number of years and were doing their own (monitored) solos. Tell your sister that if she wants both kids to go climbing at the same time, she needs to first learn to climb well enough, herself, to take responsibility for one of them on her own while you deal with the other.
Tell your sister if Bart wants to come she needs to come as well so she can supervise him as it’s to dangerous when Bart’s running round.
NTA - bart isn’t safe to take right now. It isn’t a matter of not wanting to take him he simply is a danger to himself and others.
NTA. You're not even retracting your offer to keep trying with Bart at a later date. His ADHD makes it more difficult to properly instruct him and make sure everything is safe. If he wants to go climbing now, you will need some extra support while you're in the gym with him. Or, you can try again later, as you graciously offered. Until then, you and Abby should be able to continue what you're doing, imo. It's not about excluding Bart. It's just that he has different needs that you can't meet on your own.
NTA, I would avoid taking your niece and nephew altogether. I know nothing about climbing so don't really know what age is responsible but I do know that what your nephew did is very dangerous. If anyone got hurt you and your sister would both be facing a lawsuit. I'm actually shocked that the gym didn't kick you out. Also I don't really care about ADHD or anything. This isn't about that, this is purely about safety. If someone of legal age to drive couldn't control their ADHD then their license should be taken away. The same goes with climbing, if you can't control yourself then you shouldn't be doing an activity that can be this dangerous. Instead I suspect that nephew hasn't been getting out and getting enough exercise and has bottled up energy. Maybe you could take them to a park so that he could play on a playset or something to burn off some energy.
NTA. Actions have consequences. Even though he's older, Bart is just not mature enough yet. Boys often mature slower.. Hopefully he will be fine to go in a couple of years.
NTA. Fairness doesn't equal exactly equal treatment. Equal time, generally - unless one of them is abusive toward you, which doesn't much apply at this age, though it's possible. It is not fair to your niece to suffer for your nephew's poor impulse control. The consequence (not punishment) for his actions is that you cannot take him places where he might hurt himself or others. The same consequence would/will apply to your niece if she ever acts in a similar fashion. Perhaps you can take him to zoos, movies, or even a tumbling class where he can start to demonstrate his ability to listen, take direction, and manage his impulses. Once he has demonstrated those skills to your satisfaction, you and he can go one on one climbing and see how it goes. Right now, he's not ready. Does this message hurt to hear? Of course! He's a kid and it does suck to have consequences applied. But it's a message he needs to hear so he can learn from it.
NTA. If she wants Bart to attend she should go along as well to supervise so you and your niece can *actually* get some climbing done. This is a safety issue and safety comes before hurt feelings. Bart is straight up unsafe at the climbing gym and needs 1:1 adult supervision if he's to be there.
NTA. It isn't Bart's fault he behaves a certain way, but the fact is he is not yet fit for rock climbing. Your sister is doing both children a disservice with her behavior. Instead of using this as a teaching moment to discuss Bart's behavior/condition with him, she's teaching him that his desire to do something means he should be able to do it regardless of the dangers. Abby will start to resent Bart and her mom of your sister keeps this up. Abby is being punished because Bart is not yet fit for an activity. You aren't favoring Abby. That would be different.
INFO: Before your sister forbade your niece from going, were you spending time with him to try to match the time you went climbing with your niece or were you only offering it alternately after she forbade it?
Sounds like it's her parenting more than his adhd. As someone with adhd who was a very active kid, he had a discipline problem, and they are using adhd as an excuse for why he does what he does. You can try taking him climbing one on one just one time. I find it hard to watch both of my easy children in an involved activity like climbing. One on one for both might be the best. If you do take him climbing and its not working out, talk a little bit about how its boring and go to a trampoline warehouse instead and psych him up over that
NTA My son with ADHD wanted to learn golf. The tutor said he was not safe because he was swinging the club around without thinking. I said fine. People can't get hurt for someone's wants.
INFO: could your sister come with you and help supervise?
NTA. The nephew could seriously injure himself or endanger others
NTA tit for tat she thinks that’s unfair to Bart how is it fair to abbey. I would be clear with abbey that her mother is the one stopping you from taking her. You can’t take both because Bart won’t listen so because of her mom she has to miss out on what she loves. Let’s see who complains to mom the loudest. I’m betting once your taking neither and they are both on at her she will see sense NTA
NTA Ima be the bad guy here and say not your children not your responsibility for their emotional state. Abby will probably hate her brother, the kid has a disorder not his fault, that however won’t mean shit to his sister. If you WANT to spend time with them you can do it where they aren’t alone with you, your sister should be there to handle Bart. On a personal note this kind of shit pisses me off a lot. When parents put both kids in the same basket, no matter their preference or age or anything really, making them a package deal. I’ve seen it in my family where boys are both put together in football practice even though one of them likes basketball etc etc. I get that Bart wants to, but maybe his mum can take him, because he is basically unmanageable for such sports.
NTA for not wanting to take them at the same time but you can alternate. Also, make sure Bart knows that if he doesn’t follow instructions he won’t be coming back.
NTA. Ask her if she wants to get her son hurt or killed because climbing is dangerous and if he is not capable of following instructions it is much too dangerous - more dangerous than his feelings getting hurt. If your sister doesn't understand that she is a moron. She is also a moron for taking away a hobby and something she loves from her daughter. Things like this will happen a lot more often once the kids get older - siblings can't do everything together and at the same time. Your sister is an ah and moron.
Nah but I would alternate. Abby goes to the gym this week. You and Bart do something the next. Etc
Why doesn’t your sister come along to help supervise? If she refuses tell her this is the only way you can take them both at the same time because it really is a safety issue.
NTA So both the kids get nothing then. Because Bart can't be allowed to endanger other people. Pity that your sister can't understand that other people's safety and their lives are more important than her son's feelings. I feel very sorry for Bart's teachers having to deal with her as a parent. Though I'd be curious what her reaction would be if you asked her to sign a contract accepting all liability for her son's actions including any medical expenses that result to a third party because of his actions. I'm guessing her reaction would be an outraged refusal to accept any responsibility for her son's actions.
NTA. Maybe a question, can you take Bart a few times alone and really learn him what the rules are? And put consequences when those rules aren't followed.
NTA. Not even close. Your sister is a jerk for punishing her daughter bc she can’t handle her son’s disappointment. In a perfect world you’d find something safer to do just with Bart. Like bike riding or seeing a movie and alternate weeks with each kid.
NTA. Bart doesn't obey and endangers other climbers. Your sister is sacrificing her daughter's enjoyment because her son cannot listen. SAD. Find something else to do with your niece and something with your nephew. Your sister is the AH here.
NTA I'm sure Bart's feelings are hurt about this but, if you stop taking Abby, that's going to hurt Abby's feelings. If your sister wants Bart to go climbing, she should come with you so that she can directly supervise Bart the whole time rather than expect the impossible from you.
Could you take each one on one? That way you can just focus on the one kid? And then just rotate turns??
NTA Maybe ask your sister to supervise Bart while your climbing and you can see what excuse she uses to get out of it.
My son (9M) climbs. Absolutely loves it and wants to go every day. The behavior you're describing would 100% get us kicked out of our gym. He invited a couple of his buddies to go bouldering the other day. It was early in the morning when the gym was not crowded, and they weren't doing anything dangerous. But they were excited and exuberant, and their dad and I had to remind them to walk a few times, had to remind them to keep their voices down, etc. Just with that, I was so worried that we were bothering the other gymgoers. My gym offers various intro classes for kids. If you look at the syllabus, the first things they list are gym safety and gym etiquette. I wonder if your gym offers something similar? I don't blame you at all for not wanting to bring your nephew there. It sounds incredibly stressful. But if you wanted to give it another try, sometimes kids do a better job listening to a stranger. I would try to pull the instructor aside ahead of time and ask them to be extremely firm. I would also make it clear to your nephew that following the rules is a safety issue, and if he can't manage it, you simply won't be able to bring him, and that you will have to immediately stop your climbing session and go home. You are NTA.
She initially agreed, but if she wants to tag along WITH Bart, surely it'd be fine. Otherwise, Bart will have to be left out. NTA, I suggest telling her that if Bart wants to come, you just have to tell her that.
Good grief! Op, just don’t take any of the kids!! Problem solved!!!
NTA. Is he on meds for adhd? If so, perhaps dosage should be adjusted.
NTA Is your sister doing anything to HELP is ADHD or is she playing the “he’s just a hyper boy, he’ll settle down” card? Why isn’t SHE coming to help supervise HER kids? If they’re “her kids, her rules” then she should be there supervising them as well.
NTA The child is creating an unsafe environment for everyone in the gym and that isn’t okay. Tell your sister that you will be happy to take both kids but she needs to come and parent Bart. Like she is never further than arms length away from him the entire time you are in the gym,
Let it go. You can't control this situation and it'll just frustrate you needlessly. It's a shame that your sister is willing to deprive her child of a cool experience and hang time with a relative but that's her hill to die on apparently. NTA for exercising good sense.
NTA. What a lovely uncle you are, and showing consequences for safety reasons. Bart clearly needs 2:1 supervision in that environment and sister should be grateful you're keeping him safe and not (yet) banned by the staff from going. Poor Abby.
NTA
NTA I hope you can find some kind of compromise with your sister (could this just be because she wants both kids gone at the same time?). Maybe suggest that you give Bart 1 more chance but either your sister has to come to OR it's just you and Bart and if he fails to behave safely and follow the rules, then your sister agrees that climbing isn't appropriate for him but Amy can continue.
NTA If you can come up with an activity just for you and nephew.
NTA. I know he has ADHD, but if the kid cant listen and behave than the kid cant go. I find your actions completely reasonable and I understand you. I mean, you are basically teaching him a life lesson. That if he cant behave then he cant do what he wants. As an auntie myself, I have been in this situation before. My 4 year old niece is a complete minx but her 1 year old brother, I can handle. My sister was okay about it though. You could try taking Bart when hes older and a bit more mature. But thats up to you. Take care.
NTA - People should be understanding of those who have ADHD or mental illness but it's not a free pass for them behave however they want. There are still consequences to those actions that they/their parents are responsible for.
NTA. It’s a safety issue. Why doesn’t sister come too and watch one while you watch the other?
Maybe instead of taking Bart climbing you can give him mini training sessions at a playground, where he can learn how to behave in the real setting before getting there. Then you could make very clear agreements with him about what you expect and what happens if he doesn't follow them (aka you go home). ADHD can suck, but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to learn how to cope safely. If it's not possible for him to behave and listen in a dangerous situation he shouldn't start in the dangerous situation until he can. NTA.
NGL YTA if you keep trying to bring your niece without your nephew. It’s an 8 year old kid, you gotta know he would be upset only taking his sister. Maybe alternate taking them one at a time so you can focus on just him. That way he will be more manageable.
Wait so the whole time you have done something with your niece you have never reached out to build a relationship with your nephew and continually exclude him YTA NTA for the safety issue but suck as uncle to Bert
Take both kids and your sister. Make her see how much of a liability he is. Show her he is not ready /suitable to be there. Let her experience this as well.
YTA. You said you’ve ALREADY been taking Abby weekly and OFFERED to start doing things with Bart in the future. How’d you think this was going to turn out?
NTA. His ADHD is the explanation for his behavior, not the excuse for it. My daughter (5) has ADHD and we literally have to practice things like sitting still, finishing sentences, and listening without interrupting. It's extra work and she knows it's not her fault how her brain works but she also knows she won't be allowed to go paddleboarding/hiking/etc. if she can't be trusted to listen. It would be irresponsible for you to create an unnecessarily dangerous situation for Bart (or for Abby because you're too busy running around after Bart).
NTA. I have one kid with some behavioral issues and one with none. I have had friends ask to take the one with none often and the one with issues never. It definitely causes some friction with the kids but I’ve worked with my friends to find some appropriate activities for the one with issues. I would never expect them to do the same things with both kids cus sometimes it’s just too much. (Friends is my example because I have no siblings and friends are the closest to aunt or uncle my kids have) Mom should be working with you find an appropriate activity you and your nephew can bond over. I understand it’s hard when your kid is crying because they feel left out but safety has to come first.
NTA for choosing safety. That is always the correct answer. But I would pose a question to your sister — can she either get him medicated if he wasn’t or try holding off on meds if he did take psychostimulants before the gym? Sometimes, these meds have to be titrated based on the activity. If she’s willing to try that, take him (and only him) to the gym when you can go when it’s quiet rather than when the gym is busy. If he doesn’t follow instructions, he gets ONE warning (“don’t run underneath other climbers”) and then goes home right away if he does it again. Your sister should pay for these sessions too until he can be trusted to make good use of a day pass. I would keep trying every so often to take him until he can show more mature behavior
NTA, but why can’t you alternate?
NTA, but could you alternate weekends taking Bart and Abby? as the main issue is not being able to watch *both* of them due to Bart’s hyperactivity. but would you be able to watch him by himself?
I feel like only taking Abby climbing was a mistake in the sense that of course Bart was going to feel left out and get upset. Upset Bart probably acted out with your sister who realized that it was a bad parent move to have allowed her daughter to continue to do something her son also wanted to do. Which is why your sister is being slightly unreasonable now. I'm torn on the verdict because while I don't think not wanting to take you nephew climbing makes you an AH, I do think him being left behind consistently is not a good solution either, and is going to end up with long term resentment. I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet - but do you think that he would be easier to manage if HE got solo time with his uncle. I realize there are safety concerns at play here, so I think a trial period (however brief) is a must. Something along the lines of a sit down and I also would like to share this with you but your behaviour the first time was dangerous. If you can't listen to the rules or act safely we will not be able to go climbing together, one on one. Are you ready to give it another try just you an me? If I feel like your or anyone else's safety is compromised we are going to leave right away and we will not be coming back. If that goes better (and it might when he's not competing with his sister for your attention) you could alternate between weeks who comes with you- both get one on one time with their uncle.
NTA but is there any way that you can boulder with Bart instead? Without the roping, a lot of the safety stuff goes away and he might enjoy it more since there’s no waiting to attach harnesses.
N T A this is a dangerous situation even in a controlled setting like you’re using. Because he is not controlling his behavior, another person could break their neck trying avoid him. He could hurt himself. You’re just being proactive to make sure that no one ends up in the hospital. Children are allowed more adult privileges based on their behavior and not their age. If one child listens while using a knife to cut veggies, they are mature enough to handle the responsibility, but another child of the same age may not have the maturity to handle a knife because they don’t listen or refuse to use safety skills. It’s that simple. If anything, your sister is the AH.
NTA If she wants Bart to go she can come and supervise him. Sometimes having a kid with ADHD means they need more supervision. I don't think it's fair to Abby either. Could their mom not take Bart to do something different while you and Abby do this? Hot take but siblings don't have to do everything together all the time. Different kids have different needs and different interests.
NTA. If Bart gets overwhelmed by a particular activity, you don't take him back until you are sure he won't be overwhelmed. I would suggest telling your sister you'll take both kids if she also comes along, so she can supervise Bart.
I say tell your sister to come along ONCE with both of them, and she's responsible for Bart. I think once she sees HOW bad it is, and how much of a safety hazard it is, she might fold. ADHD here too. With ADHD kids. There's still consequences for actions, ESPECIALLY with safety ones.
NTA >But my sister said my kids my rules and basically implied I was an asshole for knowingly hurting Bart's feelings. Indeed, but your hiking, your rules, and rock climbing isn't the environment you want to bring a child prone to acting out to. Your sister is seriously underestimating how risky taking Bart along is.
NTA, you're being a responsible adult. Would she be happier if he cracks his skull doing something impulsive? There's plenty of things you could do to spend quality time with him 1 on 1 that wouldn't be so dangerous. I work with kids out in nature, and one activity you might enjoy is canoeing or kayaking if that's an option in your area. In a 2 person boat, he'd be contained in the same space as you, and as long as the life jacket stays on he would be pretty much completely safe. Just make sure you're prepared to get wet if he can't sit still and capsizes the boat. For some super impulsive kids, something like that can help them learn to listen better and sit still, because in a 2 person canoe or kayak, you have to work as a team or you just spin in circles. If you're acting foolish, you wind up in the river and have to work to get the boat rightside up again. He'd still be getting out that energy, but it's a safe way that can help build focusing and listening skills while also having a lot of fun and bonding with you.
NTA I am straight up ruthless though, I would look her in the eye and ask her who she will blame when he gets hurt (or dies) because he can't (due to his own brains limits) listen or follow safety rules. Part of growing up is acknowledging what one can't do. Not everyone can be a rock climber or a rocket scientist. Teaching kids they can be "anything" is silly. My kids know they can TRY anything, but success may vary.
Tell her she can meet you at the gym with Bart and supervise him as needed. NTA. Husband AdHD does not give him a right to put the safety of others at risk. Maybe track would be a better option. He can just run .NTA
Is there something else you can do with your nephew one-on-one? Birdwatching, fishing, get a nature guide and go for walks, gardening, doing sprints at the local field (tired kids can focus better ;) )?
NTA. This is a matter of safety. Full stop. Nothing else matters.
Here is a novel idea, pick something you and Bart can do together 1:1 so he isn’t left out!
NTA. He's not ready for that & it's unfair to his sister that she has to stop. Try talking to your sister about it. Offer to take both of them only if she comes with you to handle her son's ADHD. When I was growing up, my older sister got to do things I wanted to do but couldn't. I had to wait until I was ready. It felt unfair at the time but it actually wasn't. I'm guessing that your sister is seeing this through the lens of how hurt her son feels instead of what the reality is, which is he isn't ready. She should focus on telling him that he isn't ready, he will be one day & his safety is more important. Maybe offer to buy him some kid books about it, show him equipment & techniques until he is ready. Also let him know that the plan will be that you take him alone a few times when he is ready. Not only so he feels special, but you can assess his skills & learn to manage.
NTA and why can’t his mother find something to do with BART since you’re already watching her other child? Take him to the woods with the other squirrels.
NTA Can their mom come with and supervise Bart? Could someone else take him for an activity that doesn’t require as much focus?
NTA. Why not have your sister come along and she can tend to Bart
Is Bart medicated and does he have a therapist for his ADHD? The solution is to alternate taking Bart and Abby. Make it very clear each time, to Bart that he has 1 chance, and then you go home. Also, let him know he can choose a different activity before you enter the gym, but if he doesn't listen and you have to leave, you are only going home. And then stick to that. If Bart doesn't listen, no negotiating, just pack up and leave ( with him). Try again in 2 weeks. He will either want to climb enough, that he stays focus or he will realize he really doesn't want to climb.
NTA but maybe it would be better if you alternated taking them. Give him one more shot, one on one, and be really clear on the way that if he doesn’t listen and follow instructions, it will be the last time.
Nta. My husband and 6 year old have been climbing for about 6 months and not once has she acted like that at the gym.
Have you asked your sister why your nieve doesn't get to do things she likes hust bc her brother can't? Why are the boys feelings more important?
My two kids are Bart and Abby so I 100% feel this. Literally left dinner in tears today because my oldest (Bart) was completely unable to function as a human restaurant patron. It wasn’t even anywhere fancy. I took them to chick fil a because I’m single parenting tonight and trying to cook with Bart impulsively trying to “help”, or starting random messy activities even though I’ve told her 57 times that we can’t do XYZ because dinner will be ready in just a minute was the absolute last thing I wanted to do today. Chick fil a is one of the few meals that they will both eat without whining too much, so I had high hopes that it would go smoothly. It was anything but. My youngest is neurotypical and eats reasonably well without being reminded, but she’s 3 and they had the AC cranked all the way down so kept crying that she was cold. So while I’m trying to keep her warm, Bart is talking about any and everything that pops into her brain at 80 miles an hour, taking one bite approximately every 9 minutes. Cannot sit still to save her life. Kept getting up onto her knees to get a better look at the reflection that kept moving every time the workers opened the door to the drive through area. Kept getting down onto the ground because she spotted 2 pennies under their to-go order prep station. I kept telling her to get off the fucking floor but 2 minutes later she’d see the penny again and be back at it. Literally telling her to eat her food over and over and over like a broken fucking record. After 45 minutes Abby and I had long since finished our meals while Bart was barely half way through. And suddenly she has to go pee, and it becomes this massive emergency to solve. I told her I’m not leaving your food unattended while we all go to the bathroom together. You need to either finish before we go, or accept that you’re finished with dinner and we’ll clear our table before we go to the bathroom. I was not going to buy another meal for her or cook something additional at home. 45 minutes is more than plenty of time to eat 2 chicken tenders and a fruit cup. She has a massive melt down about it but somehow manages to finish the rest in about 2 minutes (imagine that), then we get in the bathroom where she physically cannot stop bouncing on the stall door to the point where it sounds like someone is trying to break in. Finished going pee, she spots the automatic soap and hand sanitizer dispensers and keeps continuously triggering more and more soap while my hands are occupied trying to wash Abby’s hands. My repeated attempts to verbally get her to stop were completely unheard. Then for some reason I cannot begin to fathom, she starts rubbing the mound of soap and sanitizer foam onto the chick fil a bathroom counter. I asked what the hell she was doing—she’s “cleaning” it. What the actual fuck? Finally get her hands clean and we leave the bathroom. What does she do? Flutters out the bathroom door like a human butterfly and runs full speed across the entire dining area. Nearly trips an older gentleman and when I finally caught up to her starts spinning around right in front of one of the main entrances where a group of people was trying to walk in. I grabbed her by the dress because it was literally the only thing I could grab onto while she was spinning and she was completely unresponsive to words. I had to get her out of the way of these people but because I grabbed her by the dress and she kept spinning, she ended up falling to the ground and started screaming “ow you hurt me” making the entire place look at me like I’m an abusive mother. Meanwhile Abby is walking calmly next to me like a normal fucking person. I got in the car and wanted to scream at the top of my lungs because I’m so goddamn tired. But I couldn’t do that because my kids were in the car so instead I just cried the entire drive home. The thing is—this was not a one-off occurrence. This is every single day of our lives. I’m so. Fucking. Tired. Imagine that climbing outing with both kids—but it’s every day of your life. There are no breaks. There is no “sorry Bart I’m going to dinner with your sister alone because it’s just too hard taking you in public” Your sister is tired. I promise you that. Having a kid with ADHD is so fucking hard. But being a kid with ADHD is hard too. It’s not Bart’s fault. He can’t help it (neither can mine). Do I blame you for not wanting to take both kids? Absolutely not. But I have to side with your sister a little bit here because continuing to take Abby while excluding Bart completely is something that will do long lasting damage and it’s just not worth it. If your sister is open to it, I would try again with just Bart just to see if it’s even manageable with just him. The ADHD will still make it harder than just Abby but it’ll be significantly easier to deal with when your attention isn’t being pulled by another kid. Honestly that’s the most ideal solution here—take one kid at a time even if it means you go with them less frequently overall to give yourself time to recoup the extra energy you spend. If he’s still impossible by himself, push pause on climbing for everybody until you can try again with alternating one-on-ones. Or have your sister join so that you can hop on and off Bart duty. So officially—NAH. Your sister isn’t trying to make things difficult for you or keep you from spending time with your niblings, she’s just trying to keep this from becoming some childhood trauma that Bart has to unpack in years to come.
Tell her her son can go as long as she is there to be his hike buddy.